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Moderated Forums => Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion => Orthodox-Catholic Discussion => Topic started by: Kerdy on January 21, 2013, 08:19:29 AM

Title: Saints
Post by: Kerdy on January 21, 2013, 08:19:29 AM
A question was raised which got me to thinking.  If this has been discussed previously I apologize, but understanding how the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are no longer in communion with one another, are saints from each recognized by the other?
Title: Re: Saints
Post by: Arachne on January 21, 2013, 08:47:17 AM
It is my understanding that pre-Schism saints are venerated by both Churches. Of course, local custom can be a big factor in how widespread a saint's cultus is. Many local saints have little following in other areas, but they are still part of the liturgical calendar.
Title: Re: Saints
Post by: Shanghaiski on January 21, 2013, 11:04:33 AM
There are some exceptions in pre-schism saints for mutual veneration. They venerate Pope Nicholas I, we venerate St. Photios the Great (although some Eastern Catholics venerate him, too).
Title: Re: Saints
Post by: OrthoNoob on January 21, 2013, 06:48:50 PM
There are some exceptions in pre-schism saints for mutual veneration. They venerate Pope Nicholas I, we venerate St. Photios the Great (although some Eastern Catholics venerate him, too).

I imagine it's the date of canonization, not the date of death, that makes the difference between a "pre-schism" and a "post-schism" saint.
Title: Re: Saints
Post by: JamesR on January 21, 2013, 06:52:40 PM
Only pre-schism Saints are. However, post-schism Saints aren't--at least not by the Orthodox. With the liberal trend in Roman Catholicism, I'm not so sure what their view is on our post-schism Saints.
Title: Re: Saints
Post by: Shanghaiski on January 21, 2013, 09:16:08 PM
There are some exceptions in pre-schism saints for mutual veneration. They venerate Pope Nicholas I, we venerate St. Photios the Great (although some Eastern Catholics venerate him, too).

I imagine it's the date of canonization, not the date of death, that makes the difference between a "pre-schism" and a "post-schism" saint.

Well, in the above-mentioned case, Pope Nicholas 1 was, IIRC, venerated right after his death. But he was the nemesis of St. Photios, so he doesn't get on the list.

Date of canonization is tricky. In the East, the first saint to be formally canonized with a service was St. Gregory Palamas, so I read somewhere. Before that in east and west, the process was much less formal. So, on the Orthodox principal of public veneration, there are pre-schism Western saints we could accept (if we ignored those who bicker) who were not formally canonized until after the schism, or not formally canonized at all. But I think, for purposes of order, a local holy synod should make a ruling formally.
Title: Re: Saints
Post by: Nephi on January 21, 2013, 09:50:49 PM
Only pre-schism Saints are. However, post-schism Saints aren't--at least not by the Orthodox. With the liberal trend in Roman Catholicism, I'm not so sure what their view is on our post-schism Saints.
Even outside of the "liberal trend," some Roman Catholics (e.g. Pope John Paul II) view at least some of our post-schism saints as saints (e.g. St. Seraphim of Sarov).

That said, there is a fairly common cross-veneration of post-schism saints even on the Orthodox side. It's not entirely uncommon to find private veneration of St. Francis of Assissi and others among Orthodox.
Title: Re: Saints
Post by: Asteriktos on January 21, 2013, 10:05:45 PM
Don't eastern Catholics venerate a fair number of post-schism eastern saints?