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Moderated Forums => Free-For-All => Religious Topics => Topic started by: tweety234 on January 08, 2013, 04:45:40 PM

Title: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: tweety234 on January 08, 2013, 04:45:40 PM
What is the lake of fire (gehenna)? is it a lake where we will be boiling and swimming for one eternity, where god will light fire on it? what is it?
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: choy on January 08, 2013, 04:48:19 PM
It is a metaphor.  There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: Shanghaiski on January 08, 2013, 04:52:03 PM
What is the lake of fire (gehenna)? is it a lake where we will be boiling and swimming for one eternity, where god will light fire on it? what is it?

It's Las Vegas after the Apocalypse.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: tweety234 on January 08, 2013, 04:53:15 PM
It is a metaphor.  There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.

how can we be sure of that?
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: 88Devin12 on January 08, 2013, 04:54:35 PM
It is a metaphor.  There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.

how can we be sure of that?

The Church Fathers would be one authority.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: JamesR on January 08, 2013, 04:56:55 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: tweety234 on January 08, 2013, 05:03:05 PM
It is a metaphor.  There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.

how can we be sure of that?

The Church Fathers would be one authority.




anything more enlightening.?
thank you.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: 88Devin12 on January 08, 2013, 05:04:19 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: 88Devin12 on January 08, 2013, 05:04:41 PM
It is a metaphor.  There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.

how can we be sure of that?

The Church Fathers would be one authority.
anything more enlightening.?
thank you.

What is more enlightening than the Church Fathers?
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: tweety234 on January 08, 2013, 05:10:14 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: Romaios on January 08, 2013, 05:16:21 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_%28Buddhism%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_%28Buddhism%29)
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: tweety234 on January 08, 2013, 05:20:01 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept.

how is being burned and boiled in a lake with fire for an eternity, any better than hell being just a state of being?
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: 88Devin12 on January 08, 2013, 05:20:45 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: tweety234 on January 08, 2013, 05:25:54 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy.


what is the early christian belief of hell and how exactly is it far worse than the hell of the westerners?
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: Jetavan on January 08, 2013, 05:26:37 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: J Michael on January 08, 2013, 05:27:28 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

Hell has no east or west.  Just the metaphors and other words used to try to describe it.  And yes, it CAN be THAT bad!  Definitely try to avoid hell.  Tempting God, i.e. thinking "...more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell." is NOT a good way to avoid hell.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: Romaios on January 08, 2013, 05:45:14 PM
One of the most impressive descriptions of "Western" hell I've ever read is found in chapter III of Joyce's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4217/4217-h/4217-h.htm (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4217/4217-h/4217-h.htm)

Pure soul-benefiting Jesuit stuff!
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: William on January 08, 2013, 05:45:55 PM
It's where you spend all of eternity if you do not repent of sin.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: J Michael on January 08, 2013, 05:50:52 PM
One of the most impressive descriptions of "Western hell" I've ever read is found in chapter III of Joyce's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4217/4217-h/4217-h.htm (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4217/4217-h/4217-h.htm)

Pure soul-benefiting Jesuit stuff!


nvm
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: biro on January 08, 2013, 06:35:56 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.

They counted?
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: pmpn8rGPT on January 08, 2013, 07:08:20 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy.
I'm not advocating for western hell, but there DEFINITELY were early Christians who believed in a literal Gehenna Hell, otherwise the heretical Apocalypse of Peter would not exist.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: 88Devin12 on January 08, 2013, 07:20:21 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy.
I'm not advocating for western hell, but there DEFINITELY were early Christians who believed in a literal Gehenna Hell, otherwise the heretical Apocalypse of Peter would not exist.

Early Christian heretics aren't Christian, like Mornons and Jehovah's Witnesses aren't Christians.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: Jetavan on January 08, 2013, 11:17:34 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.

They counted?
God is a mathematician.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: Ashman618 on January 08, 2013, 11:58:49 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.

They counted?
God is a mathematician.

Biblically can mathematics be grouped under, "traditions of men"?
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: yeshuaisiam on January 09, 2013, 12:09:31 AM
So many know about concepts to somewhere they have not been, nor know absolutely anybody who has directly been...

That includes Theologians & Saints.  Nobody knows what Hell is.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: Jetavan on January 09, 2013, 12:14:35 AM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.

They counted?
God is a mathematician.

Biblically can mathematics be grouped under, "traditions of men"?
Yeah, one could say that mathematics, like the laws of Moses, prepared (and prepares) man for the messiah.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: domNoah on January 09, 2013, 04:41:03 PM
Hell is a physical place as well as a spiritual place, the fire in Hell is real.  On the Last Day when we are joined again with our Bodies, the wicked will be thrown body and soul into hell, and both body and soul will burn forever.

Not only is this in scripture but it is present among the Fathers of the Church.

"[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (ibid., 52). St Justin Martyr

"We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We b.aspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. With the body we commit fornication, and with the body we keep chastity. With the hand we rob, and by the hand we bestow alms; and the rest in like manner. Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past"  St Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures 18:19 [A.D. 350]). 


Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: domNoah on January 09, 2013, 04:42:19 PM
So many know about concepts to somewhere they have not been, nor know absolutely anybody who has directly been...

That includes Theologians & Saints.  Nobody knows what Hell is.


Our Lord Jesus Christ who is Eternal truth knows what hell is, and he described it for us so that we are motivated to not go there.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: Iconodule on January 09, 2013, 04:53:01 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.

They counted?

Haha, this is Buddhism we're talking about, everything is counted, categorized, and filed.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: Iconodule on January 09, 2013, 04:54:08 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept.

how is being burned and boiled in a lake with fire for an eternity, any better than hell being just a state of being?

From the basic premise that what is spiritual takes precedence over what is material.
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: Justin Kolodziej on January 09, 2013, 05:22:41 PM
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept.

how is being burned and boiled in a lake with fire for an eternity, any better than hell being just a state of being?

From the basic premise that what is spiritual takes precedence over what is material.
I thought the choices were spiritually eternally burnt to a crisp by God's love, or spiritually eternally burnt to a crisp by the pain of the loss of Heaven and materially eternally burnt to a crisp by flames that give no light whatsoever. No material only option  ???
Title: Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
Post by: theistgal on January 09, 2013, 10:51:40 PM
Whatever it is, it sounds painful so I'd prefer to avoid it.  8)