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General Forums => Christian News => Topic started by: dzheremi on November 04, 2012, 05:44:50 AM

Title: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: dzheremi on November 04, 2012, 05:44:50 AM
Anba Tawadros has been chosen as the 118th Pope of the Coptic Orthodox Church.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/57107/Egypt/Politics-/BREAKING-Bishop-Tawadros-chosen-as-Egypts-th-Copti.aspx (http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/57107/Egypt/Politics-/BREAKING-Bishop-Tawadros-chosen-as-Egypts-th-Copti.aspx)

Alf mabrook to all. God be with us.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Cyrillic on November 04, 2012, 05:47:36 AM
Axios!

Glory be to God for all things!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: qawe on November 04, 2012, 05:50:46 AM
The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.
And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.
Conspiracy?!!!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: dzheremi on November 04, 2012, 05:54:49 AM
I thought maybe we  could go 10 minutes without this kind of talk. How silly of me. :-\
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: qawe on November 04, 2012, 05:56:03 AM
I thought maybe we  could go 10 minutes without this kind of talk. How silly of me. :-\

Didn't it look a bit suss to you?
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: DavidI on November 04, 2012, 05:58:49 AM
I thought maybe we  could go 10 minutes without this kind of talk. How silly of me. :-\

Didn't it look a bit suss to you?

Considering the three balls were indistinguishable from each other and were shuffled, not to mention the kid was obviously very anxious so he chose the first one he touched, no, not at all.

Axios Axios Axios!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: dzheremi on November 04, 2012, 06:00:50 AM
I am not inclined to see conspiracies in such things. I was neither the boy nor HE Bahkomious, so I trust that the Lord's hand is stronger than any of us.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: qawe on November 04, 2012, 06:02:09 AM
I thought maybe we  could go 10 minutes without this kind of talk. How silly of me. :-\

Didn't it look a bit suss to you?

Considering the three balls were indistinguishable from each other and were shuffled, not to mention the kid was obviously very anxious so he chose the first one he touched, no, not at all.

Axios Axios Axios!

The balls could potentially have been distinguishable based on the position of the seal of the Acting Patriarch on the white stickers.
Although I agree that it probably wasn't rigged.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: qawe on November 04, 2012, 06:22:03 AM
Does anyone have a video of the setting up of the altar lot, and the altar lot itself?
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Suryoyutho on November 04, 2012, 06:40:04 AM
His Holiness 60th birthday today as well? Who was the first Pope named Tawadros?
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: qawe on November 04, 2012, 06:41:10 AM
I've just watched the altar lot again from CTV and the time when CTV changes cameras makes it look as if it was rigged, but in reality, it is not at all clear from the video whether the boy's hand was guided to a certain ball or not.

I would appreciate it if someone had a video of the lot according to Aghapy TV's cameras to confirm this.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: DavidI on November 04, 2012, 06:47:47 AM
His Holiness 60th birthday today as well? Who was the first Pope named Tawadros?

Wiki gives me no other info but that the 45th patriarch, Pope Theodosius II was also referred to as Pope Theodoros I which translates to Tawadros.
Title: New Coptic Pope chosen
Post by: MichaelArchangelos on November 04, 2012, 07:46:57 AM
http://www.news.com.au/world/new-coptic-pope-chosen-in-elaborate-ceremony/story-fndir2ev-1226510208292

Bishop Tawadros, 59, an aide to the acting pope, was selected to become Pope Tawadros II, replacing the charismatic Pope Shenouda III who died earlier this year after 40 years at the helm of the church.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope chosen
Post by: biro on November 04, 2012, 09:04:40 AM
Glory to God!  :angel:
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Severian on November 04, 2012, 10:48:33 AM
Al majdulilah!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: GTAsoldier on November 04, 2012, 11:09:26 AM
Axios!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mike on November 04, 2012, 12:22:25 PM
So in Alexandria there are now two popes named Theodore II. Not confusing at all.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Severian on November 04, 2012, 12:29:25 PM
So in Alexandria there are now two popes named Theodore II. Not confusing at all.
Lol. :D
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Alpo on November 04, 2012, 12:45:11 PM
So in Alexandria there are now two popes named Theodore II.

Orthodox Unity!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Dominika on November 04, 2012, 12:58:48 PM
So in Alexandria there are now two popes named Theodore II.

Orthodox Unity!

That's what I thought; a sign to proclam official unity of EO and OO ;)

Let God give strength to both Alexandrian popes for these so difficult times for Egyptian Christians. I wish during the pontificates of them it would happen. Together we can achieve much more, specially in missions in Africa
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mabsoota on November 04, 2012, 02:55:29 PM
Axios! Axios! Axios!
may God preserve the life of both alexandrian theodore 2nd's for many years and peaceful and united times.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Cantor Krishnich on November 04, 2012, 03:20:00 PM
Axios! Axios! Axios!

He has a lot of problems to deal with in the church, may the lord give him strength. May he provide comfort to his flock suffering from Islamic extremism in Egypt, may he help the Ethiopian church as it chooses its new Patriarch, and the help solve the problem in Eritrea. But first and foremost, the situation going on in Egypt.
Eis Polla Eti Despota and Mabrook!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 04, 2012, 05:20:11 PM
His Holiness 60th birthday today as well? Who was the first Pope named Tawadros?

Wiki gives me no other info but that the 45th patriarch, Pope Theodosius II was also referred to as Pope Theodoros I which translates to Tawadros.
I think wikipedia made a mistake.  After checking Iris Habib el Masry, Abba Severus al-Ashmumein, and Mark Swanson, there is no indication (or much info really about Pope Tawadros I) that the first Tawadros is also known as Theodosius.  In fact all 3 sources say Pope Theodosius II is the 79th Pope in the 13th Century, not Theodosius III as Wiki says it.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: ialmisry on November 04, 2012, 05:25:11 PM
So in Alexandria there are now two popes named Theodore II.

Orthodox Unity!

That's what I thought; a sign to proclam official unity of EO and OO ;)

Let God give strength to both Alexandrian popes for these so difficult times for Egyptian Christians. I wish during the pontificates of them it would happen. Together we can achieve much more, specially in missions in Africa
Axios!

A single name for a single Pope! God grant it!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: zekarja on November 04, 2012, 06:48:12 PM
Axios! Axios! Axios!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: HabteSelassie on November 04, 2012, 08:01:51 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I thought maybe we  could go 10 minutes without this kind of talk. How silly of me. :-\

Haha! Yes, across 1300 years, appointed Bishops is always sure to cause controversy, gossip, and strife.  Me personally, I don't understand it, out my convert's zeal I embrace Church leaders by Faith as appointed by God.  I don't see the need for laity to get involved aside from praying for our leaders :)

Speaking of which, let us pray that God grant many years to His Holiness Pope Theodore and praised be to God through the Saints that the See of Mark is yet again securely occupied by an Apostolic successor! Further, I hope the new Pope will be as embracing and active in the Ethiopian Church as was the legacy of the great Pope Shenouda III ( dare say we should pursue canonization for our reverend Father, his legacy is so great in the Oriental world, we might not even have any Oriental Churches today if not for Pope Shenouda's constant efforts in the global community)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: qawe on November 04, 2012, 08:07:45 PM
( dare say we should pursue canonization for our reverend Father, his legacy is so great in the Oriental world, we might not even have any Oriental Churches today if not for Pope Shenouda's constant efforts in the global community)

Why should we pursue canonisation if there are no miracles recorded?!
Also, the rule is to wait until 50 years after their death.
We are not like the Catholics who canonise every Pope they have!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: HabteSelassie on November 04, 2012, 08:16:13 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

( dare say we should pursue canonization for our reverend Father, his legacy is so great in the Oriental world, we might not even have any Oriental Churches today if not for Pope Shenouda's constant efforts in the global community)

Why should we pursue canonisation if there are no miracles recorded?!
Also, the rule is to wait until 50 years after their death.
We are not like the Catholics who canonise every Pope they have!

To me, Pope Shenouda's intervention in the Tewahedo Church across 40 plus years, from HH work with HIM during the final years of the Crown, or how HH worked against the communist Derg, or how HH denounced the dethroning and later tragic assassination of the martyred Abune Theophilos, or how HH mediated during the 1991 Ethiopian Revolution to ensure the Tewahedo Church did not splinter away, or how HH intervened in the Eritrean conflicts to assist them towards autocephaly... these I would say in the context of the decades of war ensuing were miracles :angel: :angel: :angel:

In fifty years, I will be sure to bring it up again, until then I will hold the memory of His Holiness Pope Shenouda in private devotion :police:

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 04, 2012, 09:37:02 PM
( dare say we should pursue canonization for our reverend Father, his legacy is so great in the Oriental world, we might not even have any Oriental Churches today if not for Pope Shenouda's constant efforts in the global community)

Why should we pursue canonisation if there are no miracles recorded?!
Also, the rule is to wait until 50 years after their death.
We are not like the Catholics who canonise every Pope they have!
Why should there be miracles recorded? Sainthood should not be limited by miracles?  People like archdeacon Habib Guirguis and Abba Bulus el Bushi should be canonized.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: qawe on November 04, 2012, 09:49:13 PM
( dare say we should pursue canonization for our reverend Father, his legacy is so great in the Oriental world, we might not even have any Oriental Churches today if not for Pope Shenouda's constant efforts in the global community)

Why should we pursue canonisation if there are no miracles recorded?!
Also, the rule is to wait until 50 years after their death.
We are not like the Catholics who canonise every Pope they have!
Why should there be miracles recorded? Sainthood should not be limited by miracles?  People like archdeacon Habib Guirguis and Abba Bulus el Bushi should be canonized.

Sorry, I thought there was a rule that miracles are a prerequisite for canonisation
Athough I guess I have never heard of miracles by St Athanasius
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Gunnarr on November 04, 2012, 10:12:45 PM
I was hoping for Father Raphael Ava Mina

oh well
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Severian on November 04, 2012, 10:15:37 PM
I was hoping for Father Pachomios El-Syrian ;P

oh well
I was hoping for either Fr. Rophael or Anba Rophael. But I guess we'll just have to trust that God appointed H.H. Anba Tawadros according to His Holy will. :)
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Shanghaiski on November 04, 2012, 10:25:16 PM
( dare say we should pursue canonization for our reverend Father, his legacy is so great in the Oriental world, we might not even have any Oriental Churches today if not for Pope Shenouda's constant efforts in the global community)

Why should we pursue canonisation if there are no miracles recorded?!
Also, the rule is to wait until 50 years after their death.
We are not like the Catholics who canonise every Pope they have!
Why should there be miracles recorded? Sainthood should not be limited by miracles?  People like archdeacon Habib Guirguis and Abba Bulus el Bushi should be canonized.

And Fr. Matthew the Poor. And some friendly encouragement given the Armenian Church to canonize some saints who've been waiting for 800 years. :)
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Salpy on November 04, 2012, 11:51:24 PM
And some friendly encouragement given the Armenian Church to canonize some saints who've been waiting for 800 years. :)

Is there someone you had in mind?
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Gunnarr on November 05, 2012, 12:32:48 AM
I was hoping for Father Pachomios El-Syrian ;P

oh well
I was hoping for either Fr. Rophael or Anba Rophael. But I guess we'll just have to trust that God appointed H.H. Anba Tawadros according to His Holy will. :)

oh jeez!!!

you quoted me before I could edit to correct the name! I also was hoping for Father Rophael :)
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: qawe on November 05, 2012, 02:20:52 AM
I was hoping for Father Pachomios El-Syrian ;P

oh well
I was hoping for either Fr. Rophael or Anba Rophael. But I guess we'll just have to trust that God appointed H.H. Anba Tawadros according to His Holy will. :)

oh jeez!!!

you quoted me before I could edit to correct the name! I also was hoping for Father Rophael :)

lol  :D
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: zekarja on November 05, 2012, 10:29:02 AM
Why should We are not like the Catholics who canonise every Pope they have!

I would say that this word is undue and uncharitable. This is also an untruth. Just because the Catholic Church has rushed the canonization process with the late Pope John Paul II doesn't mean they "canonise every Pope they have!" Most Roman popes are not saints. After AD 816, far fewer popes were made saints: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

May God grant Pope Tawadros many years!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 05, 2012, 03:29:27 PM
This should bring many of us here gladness and peace in heart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNLyfBCuKKA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

HG Bishop Rafael, himself was a papal candidate and also one of the bishops who nominated HG Bishop Tawadros, shows his utmost joy in knowing that Bishop Tawadros, who was his colleague for a number of years will become his Papa.  In reply, Bishop Tawadros in humility would talk about how much more qualified in his knowledge and teaching Bishop Rafael is, and how he will continue to learn from him, asking him to never leave his side.  Bishop Rafael would keep repeating "God has a different opinion," and vowed to be a servant and disciple to him.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: zekarja on November 05, 2012, 03:34:33 PM
I really like Pope Tawadros' humble response to being elected:

'The new Pope was staying at his monastery of St. Bishoy in the Wadi El N’atrun when the Lot was drawn and on being told the news, replied, “I thank the Lord for His grace; I am undeserving.” He then joined the monks at the monastery in prayers and doxologies before the shrine of Saint Bishoy.' - Source: http://britishorthodox.org/3783/bishop-tawadros-chosen-by-the-sacred-lot-to-be-118th-pope/

[Emphasis mine.]
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: orthonorm on November 05, 2012, 04:05:49 PM
The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.
And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.
Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: zekarja on November 05, 2012, 04:10:49 PM
The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.
And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.
Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?

The Apostles cast lots to replace Judas... Cleromancy has been used by the God at least since the times of Moses.  ;)

Some info on the matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleromancy
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: orthonorm on November 05, 2012, 04:12:22 PM
The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.
And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.
Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?

The Apostles cast lots to replace Judas...

That's not very nice . . .
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: orthonorm on November 05, 2012, 04:16:07 PM
The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.
And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.
Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?

The Apostles cast lots to replace Judas... Cleromancy has been used by the God at least since the times of Moses.  ;)

Some info on the matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleromancy

Give the track record of the OCA, perhaps they should choose their Bishops and Metropolitan on Thanksgiving Day by a turkey wish bone pulling round-robin.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: zekarja on November 05, 2012, 04:25:55 PM
The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.
And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.
Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?

The Apostles cast lots to replace Judas...

That's not very nice . . .


I meant, "to fill the place". :P
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: ilyazhito on November 05, 2012, 05:50:42 PM
Axios! Axios! Axios! Many years! Eis polla eti Despota!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Hinterlander on November 05, 2012, 05:53:59 PM
Pictures from BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20197046 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20197046)
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mabsoota on November 05, 2012, 05:57:52 PM
lovely pictures, thank you
 :)
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mike on November 05, 2012, 06:50:49 PM
The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.
And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.
Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?

The Apostles cast lots to replace Judas... Cleromancy has been used by the God at least since the times of Moses.  ;)

Some info on the matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleromancy

Give the track record of the OCA, perhaps they should choose their Bishops and Metropolitan on Thanksgiving Day by a turkey wish bone pulling round-robin.

Serbian Church also draws its patriarch in a similar way.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 06, 2012, 05:11:28 AM
Axios! Axios! Axios!

Eis polla aeti, Despota!
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: zekarja on November 06, 2012, 09:37:10 AM
The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.
And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.
Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?

The Apostles cast lots to replace Judas... Cleromancy has been used by the God at least since the times of Moses.  ;)

Some info on the matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleromancy

Give the track record of the OCA, perhaps they should choose their Bishops and Metropolitan on Thanksgiving Day by a turkey wish bone pulling round-robin.

Serbian Church also draws its patriarch in a similar way.

Play "odds or evens" or "rock, scissors, paper", until you only have one candidate left. That would save resources ant time. jk

I actually find choosing by lots to be very Biblical. It is pretty cool that the Coptic Church still follows that model. 8)
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 06, 2012, 01:50:29 PM
The casting of lots, although Biblical, is nevertheless something that was done very very few times in the Coptic Church.

Check this brave soul out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=ULCuvlMl8xwT8&v=CuvlMl8xwT8#t=132s

Pavli Qas (I hope I am spelling his name correctly):  I hope HH Pope Tawadros truly heeds your advice.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mike on November 06, 2012, 06:33:48 PM
The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.
And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.
Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?

The Apostles cast lots to replace Judas... Cleromancy has been used by the God at least since the times of Moses.  ;)

Some info on the matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleromancy

Give the track record of the OCA, perhaps they should choose their Bishops and Metropolitan on Thanksgiving Day by a turkey wish bone pulling round-robin.

Serbian Church also draws its patriarch in a similar way.

St. Tikhon was elected that way too.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Salpy on November 07, 2012, 02:27:27 AM
And some friendly encouragement given the Armenian Church to canonize some saints who've been waiting for 800 years. :)

Is there someone you had in mind?

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to what you are referring to.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Severian on November 07, 2012, 03:51:04 PM
And some friendly encouragement given the Armenian Church to canonize some saints who've been waiting for 800 years. :)

Is there someone you had in mind?

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to what you are referring to.
I think he is referring to the fact that the Armenian Curch has not canonized a new Saint in centuries and that there are many individuals who are worthy of such canonizaton.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Salpy on November 07, 2012, 09:53:51 PM
I guess I am trying to understand why a person who considers my Church to be schismatic would concern himself with whether any of my Church's members are made saints in the modern era.  I know that there are many who are worthy, such as the priest of my grandfather's village, who was doused with kerosene and burned alive during the Genocide.  I guess I am trying to figure out why that is a concern of this poster, and why it would be brought up in this thread.

And the "800 years" number is a bit inaccurate.  Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of St. Gregory of Datev, who reposed in the 1400's.

It was during the Ottoman era that the Church was not able to canonize saints.  Now we find ourselves in a different era, and the Church is trying to figure out how to go about reviving the process.  It used to be a rather "bottom up" process, rather than the "top down" process that one finds in many modern Churches.  Someone would be venerated at the local level, and then as his veneration spread, he would just get added to the calendar.  From what I understand, there was no formal process like one finds in the Chalcedonian Churches.

Whatever.  I just don't get why that is relevant to this thread.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: serb1389 on November 08, 2012, 11:16:01 AM
I guess I am trying to understand why a person who considers my Church to be schismatic would concern himself with whether any of my Church's members are made saints in the modern era.  I know that there are many who are worthy, such as the priest of my grandfather's village, who was doused with kerosene and burned alive during the Genocide.  I guess I am trying to figure out why that is a concern of this poster, and why it would be brought up in this thread.

And the "800 years" number is a bit inaccurate.  Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of St. Gregory of Datev, who reposed in the 1400's.

It was during the Ottoman era that the Church was not able to canonize saints.  Now we find ourselves in a different era, and the Church is trying to figure out how to go about reviving the process.  It used to be a rather "bottom up" process, rather than the "top down" process that one finds in many modern Churches.  Someone would be venerated at the local level, and then as his veneration spread, he would just get added to the calendar.  From what I understand, there was no formal process like one finds in the Chalcedonian Churches.

Whatever.  I just don't get why that is relevant to this thread.

Agreed.  We should all move on to the OP discussion.   :police:
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 15, 2012, 06:26:57 PM
The rite of Papal enthronement has been posted:

http://www.copticworld.org/articles/1426/

Quote
What to expect during the serive of the Enthronement of His Holiness Pope Tawadros II of Alexandria:
One of the bishops will start the prayer according to the custom, the lections for the 17th of Hathor are read until the Praxis (Acts) and the Synaxarion. 
Then the priests go out with their censers and the deacons carrying crosses to the Papal residence, where the metropolitans and the bishops are with the one chosen for the patriarchal throne, then the door of the cathedral is locked and the keys are given to one of the archdeacons to stand at the door, waiting for the new Pope when he comes in order to deliver the keys to him.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Stavro on November 15, 2012, 09:25:38 PM
In this "seating rite", the conventional prayers usually prayed when a canonical Patriarch is chosen from among the monks, last recited in 1959 at the ordination rite of Pope Kyrillos, will be omitted. There is no laying of hands, no descent of the Holy Spirit, no commission by God, and the new Pope will not be consecrated Patriarch of Alexandria. He will be called "Patriarch of St. Mark's Service" (Kerazah). Alexandria will continue to have no bishop.

If the trend of seating bishops as Popes continues in the future, we should adopt the Roman Papal model, in which the Pope is the Supreme head of the Church, and have a bishop for Alexandria. A general bishop will do as well. 

May the Lord grant the new Pope many years.   
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mabsoota on November 18, 2012, 02:25:44 PM
anyone who would like to spend 7 hours profitably can watch our patriarch's enthronement here:
 :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDNJV7P5-Q
at 2hrs 15mins is the bit where he is prayed over by the other bishops.
(if u don't have 7 hours!)

baba tawadros 2nd is not ordained here, as he was already a general bishop. he was chosen from among monks and bishops and has already shown great courage and humility.

the enthronement video also shows very good relations between the coptic church and other churches, especially eastern orthodox.

may the Lord preserve the life of both patriarch theodores for many years and peaceful times.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Dominika on November 18, 2012, 02:43:11 PM
Many years to the both Orthodox popes of Alexandria! Let God give them strength for these difficult times for Egyptian Christians. I pray that patriarch Tawadros II be this Good Shepherd from the Gospel he has read during the ceremony.

If I'm not mistaken, thank God, there was no any incident (well, except the absence of the president)



the enthronement video also shows very good relations between the coptic church and other churches, especially eastern orthodox.

may the Lord preserve the life of both patriarch theodores for many years and peaceful times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4Wx8dQHUzQA - That's what you said. Especially since 4:38. It's worth seeing it, both Orthodox patriarchs of Alexandria with the same name ;) I hope and pray that official unity of OO and EO can be proclaimed soon
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mabsoota on November 18, 2012, 03:24:58 PM
especially for salpy and co!
at 3hrs 5 minutes there is a prayer in armenian...
(before that, i heard prayers in english, french, german, spanish and either amharic or ge'ez)
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 18, 2012, 04:13:28 PM
Many years to the both Orthodox popes of Alexandria! Let God give them strength for these difficult times for Egyptian Christians. I pray that patriarch Tawadros II be this Good Shepherd from the Gospel he has read during the ceremony.

If I'm not mistaken, thank God, there was no any incident (well, except the absence of the president)



the enthronement video also shows very good relations between the coptic church and other churches, especially eastern orthodox.

may the Lord preserve the life of both patriarch theodores for many years and peaceful times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4Wx8dQHUzQA - That's what you said. Especially since 4:38. It's worth seeing it, both Orthodox patriarchs of Alexandria with the same name ;) I hope and pray that official unity of OO and EO can be proclaimed soon
Actually check out 4:50:30 and on.  HB Pope Theodorus II the Greek gives his congratulatory speech ending with a gift and an Axios.  I must say that is unheard of in the history of our churches.  This was an unusual enthronement service.  What made it more unusual was the diptych by the ArchChanter Ibrahim Ayad before the reading of the gospel, which included Pope Tawadros, Patriarch Mar Ignatius Zaka, and Pope Theodoros.  Never on an official level has this happened before as far as I recall.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mabsoota on November 18, 2012, 04:29:04 PM
hi, dominika; this starts at 4hrs 50 minutes on the link i posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDNJV7P5-Q.
it is good that there is a shorter link for those who didn't watch all of it!
i actually saw some of this live on the screens at church, but the noise quality was poor.
it is clearly a lovely message, but i don't understand too much of it due to my poor arabic and absent greek.
patriarch theodore ('roman' orthodox as we call him) mentions the lovely name they both share, gives him a crown / bishops hat, yells axios! and gives him a lovely hug!

now we all need to follow his great example!
 :)
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mabsoota on November 18, 2012, 04:31:37 PM
minasoliman, i didn't notice this.
this is truly great.
i have to confess fast forwarding a few parts of the 7 hour liturgy!
 :-[

will watch it in full when i retire...
 ;)
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Orthodox11 on November 18, 2012, 05:07:56 PM
Actually check out 4:50:30 and on.  HB Pope Theodorus II the Greek gives his congratulatory speech ending with a gift and an Axios.  I must say that is unheard of in the history of our churches.  This was an unusual enthronement service.  What made it more unusual was the diptych by the ArchChanter Ibrahim Ayad before the reading of the gospel, which included Pope Tawadros, Patriarch Mar Ignatius Zaka, and Pope Theodoros.  Never on an official level has this happened before as far as I recall.

Awesome. Seeing Pope Theodoros II (EO) lift up the mitre and shout 'Axios', with the Coptic psaltes responding, and then going over to hand it to Pope Theodoros II (OO), it almost felt like the EO were crowning him as their own in a way.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mabsoota on November 18, 2012, 05:11:34 PM
was truly awesome. i was very moved.
also at 5hrs 22 mins, there is a lovely message on behalf of patriarch bartholomew in english:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDNJV7P5-Q

they are hoping to bring the theological dialogue 'swiftly... to a meaningful conclusion'.
keep fasting and praying!
 :D
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 18, 2012, 06:30:02 PM
In case you're curious, the diptych before the gospel was said sometime after 4:05:00.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Orthodox11 on November 18, 2012, 06:40:54 PM
In case you're curious, the diptych before the gospel was said sometime after 4:05:00.

 ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Salpy on November 18, 2012, 10:51:13 PM
Pictures from the orthodoxchurch.info news site:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/154379_377455562337992_1843942739_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/395149_377457192337829_1881289472_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/602477_377458025671079_597267438_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/60705_377458422337706_836673303_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/542761_377458522337696_1769981855_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/601624_377459199004295_518388133_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/406859_377459019004313_627365617_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/68419_377458939004321_1704874823_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/382105_377459315670950_2001137994_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/993_377459345670947_1234629461_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/993_377459345670947_1234629461_n.jpg)

See more here:

http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/2012/11/coptic-papal-consecration-snaps-report/
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 18, 2012, 11:11:01 PM
Funny moment:  when HG Bishop Paul of Tanta paused before saying the name of the Anglican bishop of Ireland:  Bishop Michael Jackson

On a serious note, touching moment when HE Metropolitan Bakhomious, who officially ended his own function as locum tenens in his speech says that now we as bishops and metropolitans must return to our dioceses under the orders and authority of HH Pope Tawadros, our father.  The spiritual father of His Holiness for decades has pretty much declared his sonship to him, leading the Pope to bawl in tears.  His Eminence continued to say that with a tone of boldness that this is the reality of the Coptic Church, that there is no competition, and regardless of age we must respect our new authority.

I must say I have so much respect for His Eminence, a truly righteous and most humble leader.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 19, 2012, 11:09:25 AM

On a serious note, touching moment when HE Metropolitan Bakhomious, who officially ended his own function as locum tenens in his speech says that now we as bishops and metropolitans must return to our dioceses under the orders and authority of HH Pope Tawadros, our father.  The spiritual father of His Holiness for decades has pretty much declared his sonship to him, leading the Pope to bawl in tears.  His Eminence continued to say that with a tone of boldness that this is the reality of the Coptic Church, that there is no competition, and regardless of age we must respect our new authority.

I must say I have so much respect for His Eminence, a truly righteous and most humble leader.

Here's the clip of the speech by HE Metropolitan Bakhomious with English subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYW1AYxjk-w&feature=channel&list=UL
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 19, 2012, 11:31:32 AM

On a serious note, touching moment when HE Metropolitan Bakhomious, who officially ended his own function as locum tenens in his speech says that now we as bishops and metropolitans must return to our dioceses under the orders and authority of HH Pope Tawadros, our father.  The spiritual father of His Holiness for decades has pretty much declared his sonship to him, leading the Pope to bawl in tears.  His Eminence continued to say that with a tone of boldness that this is the reality of the Coptic Church, that there is no competition, and regardless of age we must respect our new authority.

I must say I have so much respect for His Eminence, a truly righteous and most humble leader.

Here's the clip of the speech by HE Metropolitan Bakhomious with English subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYW1AYxjk-w&feature=channel&list=UL

I must tell you, and I beg you, to watch at least the first 10 minutes.  Truly worth your time.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: ialmisry on November 19, 2012, 11:55:09 AM

On a serious note, touching moment when HE Metropolitan Bakhomious, who officially ended his own function as locum tenens in his speech says that now we as bishops and metropolitans must return to our dioceses under the orders and authority of HH Pope Tawadros, our father.  The spiritual father of His Holiness for decades has pretty much declared his sonship to him, leading the Pope to bawl in tears.  His Eminence continued to say that with a tone of boldness that this is the reality of the Coptic Church, that there is no competition, and regardless of age we must respect our new authority.

I must say I have so much respect for His Eminence, a truly righteous and most humble leader.

Here's the clip of the speech by HE Metropolitan Bakhomious with English subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYW1AYxjk-w&feature=channel&list=UL

The seating arrangement of the Greek HH Pope Theodore II is interesting.

HE Met. Bakhomious got the Coptic HH Pope Theodore II's papacy off to a good start.  His Arabic (Classical, that is) was excellent.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Orthodox11 on November 20, 2012, 06:09:45 AM
Do all deacons in the Coptic Church wear the hat? I think this is the first time I've seen a Coptic deacon (not just a reader or chanter performing the role of deacon).
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: sheenj on November 20, 2012, 10:12:19 AM
Do all deacons in the Coptic Church wear the hat? I think this is the first time I've seen a Coptic deacon (not just a reader or chanter performing the role of deacon).

I've seen EOTC Deacons with that kind of hat, so maybe he's Ethiopian/Eritrean?
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 20, 2012, 11:03:47 AM
I believe you're talking about the Archdeacon, Archdeacon Roshdi Wassef, who is also a scholar graduating from the Theological School in Athens.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: Orthodox11 on November 20, 2012, 11:07:16 AM
I believe you're talking about the Archdeacon, Archdeacon Roshdi Wassef, who is also a scholar graduating from the Theological School in Athens.

So the hat is only for archdeacons?
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 20, 2012, 11:12:29 AM
I believe you're talking about the Archdeacon, Archdeacon Roshdi Wassef, who is also a scholar graduating from the Theological School in Athens.

So the hat is only for archdeacons?
Yes
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 20, 2012, 01:17:34 PM
This is a letter from HB Pope Theodoros II to HH Pope Tawadros II two weeks earlier when it was known HH Pope Tawadros was chosen for the Papacy.  It's a shorter and similar version of the speech he gave at the enthronement ceremony:

http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=news&action=details&id=864#prettyPhoto

Quote
We both bear the name “Theodoros II” as an historic draft towards closer understanding for the noble people of Egypt, and we wholeheartedly pray that the Lord will preserve Your Beatitude in continual health and much strength for the benefit of your reasonable flock.

The speech at the enthronement in Greek can be read here:

http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=news&action=details&id=871
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 20, 2012, 02:54:50 PM

On a serious note, touching moment when HE Metropolitan Bakhomious, who officially ended his own function as locum tenens in his speech says that now we as bishops and metropolitans must return to our dioceses under the orders and authority of HH Pope Tawadros, our father.  The spiritual father of His Holiness for decades has pretty much declared his sonship to him, leading the Pope to bawl in tears.  His Eminence continued to say that with a tone of boldness that this is the reality of the Coptic Church, that there is no competition, and regardless of age we must respect our new authority.

I must say I have so much respect for His Eminence, a truly righteous and most humble leader.

Here's the clip of the speech by HE Metropolitan Bakhomious with English subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYW1AYxjk-w&feature=channel&list=UL

A better translation provided by someone from Facebook than CYC's subtitles:

Quote
On this blessed day, during which we celebrate the enthronement of our blessed and honored father, His Holiness Pope Tawadros the Second, on behalf of the holy synod of the Coptic Orthodox Church in the world, we present to you the successor of Saint Mark, the thirteenth apostle, the father of fathers, the archpriest and archbishop, Pope Tawadros the Second.

And my beloved, briefly, we remember our father, His Holiness, the reposed, Pope Shenouda III, whose fatherhood we shall not forget, in addition to his heritage, his leadership, his thought, his love, his zeal, and all his virtues, which we have received and shall pass on from generation to generation and unto the end of the ages.

His Holiness Pope Shenouda III, who has passed from among us, has not left us orphans. He prays for us, and has given us his gift, one of his own children, upon whom he had placed his own apostolic hand, our beloved father, His Holiness Pope Abba Tawadros II.

For our church, my beloved, is a mother. She is not barren. She gives birth to generation after generation. And that which we have received from our ancestors and our saints, we pass on to the coming generations with complete honesty.

We have known His Holiness, our beloved father, Pope Tawadros, since his childhood. A tongue is not able to speak of him. In his childhood, he was a pure. In his adolescence, he was spotless and possessing a serving nature. In his monasticism, he was stringent and ascetic. In his episcopacy, he was zealous and revitalizing.

Therefore, looking forward with the eyes of hope, what he shall introduce will not be for the church of Egypt and the Coptic Church only, but also for the whole world. He shall introduce thought, a spirit, and a heritage full of zeal, and love for the church of God, and for Egypt and her people, her Muslims and Christians, her elders and her young, and her imams and her priests. He shall give these things to Egypt.

And we look ahead with the eyes of hope, that in the manner the Lord used him in past years, he shall use him again unto the end of the ages, O our beloved master.

We, on this joyous day, hand the church to His Holiness. And inasmuch as the Lord worked through us in the recent past to take the responsibility of the work [raucous applause and standing ovation by thousands interrupts], through your prayers and fasts, the Lord has done many great things with us until He brought us unto this blessed day.

My beloved, having taken on the responsibility of the church, we return to our diocese reduced in stature under the feet of His Holiness, our beloved father [the newly installed pope is reduced to tears, visibly shaken, as the congregants rise again to their feet and applaud for minutes. The large television screens clearly show the emotions on his face]

I say this from my heart: I shall be a son to him and a servant under his feet. And all of us in the Holy Synod, we believe in spiritual paternity. There is no conflict over authority in our church! [raucous applause]

We are the sons of Saint Mark and the many patriarchs until Pope Shenouda. We have learned humility from them. We learned penitence from them. We learned the service of the washing of feet from them. So our goal is only the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and His service.

I thank you, my beloved, for your cooperation with me. I thank my fathers, their graces, the metropolitans and bishops, who labored much with us. The many committees who were formed to bring us to this blessed day.

Many of the beloved – the Holy Synod, the lay councils, the endowment department, the committee for papal candidates, the committee for registrants, the committee for appeals, the committee for elections, the lawyers, the scouts – we offer our appreciation and love to all of them. I wish to thank each one by his or her name, but we lack time.

edit:  Just realized that the translation was provide for by lacopts.org, by Mark Moussa
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: mabsoota on November 20, 2012, 03:09:27 PM
beautiful beyond words...
i will copy it to another website; quoting this one.

by the way, the letter from the eastern orthodox website is found more easily here:
http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=news&action=details&id=864
(the other link led me to the greek version)
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: minasoliman on November 20, 2012, 03:23:53 PM
beautiful beyond words...
i will copy it to another website; quoting this one.

by the way, the letter from the eastern orthodox website is found more easily here:
http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=news&action=details&id=864
(the other link led me to the greek version)
ah yes...thank you...my apologies...

In any case, it's listed under November 4 news feed of the website once you click on the English link from the top.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: copticmind on November 20, 2012, 04:27:57 PM
Actually check out 4:50:30 and on.  HB Pope Theodorus II the Greek gives his congratulatory speech ending with a gift and an Axios.  I must say that is unheard of in the history of our churches.  This was an unusual enthronement service.  What made it more unusual was the diptych by the ArchChanter Ibrahim Ayad before the reading of the gospel, which included Pope Tawadros, Patriarch Mar Ignatius Zaka, and Pope Theodoros.  Never on an official level has this happened before as far as I recall.

YEAH... I watched the enthronement service live, and I couldn't believe my ears! I wanted to repeat that part again to make sure that cantor Ibrahim really mentioned H.B.'s name. So I waited until the enthronement was uploaded to YouTube and watched that part again! even if all of this was unusual, I really felt the genuine and brotherly love, that hopefully will lead to something fruitful in the near future.

But this wasn't the first time I witness a similar thing, I remember that several years ago, H.B. Pope Peter VII (the previous Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria) visited my church in Alexandria, and he entered the church in a procession while our deacons were chanting the Coptic Papal hymns. H.B. gave then a really heart-warming talk that I unfortunately fail to remember, but I still can recall how I felt while listening to his words.
Title: Re: New Coptic Pope Chosen: Anba Tawadros
Post by: copticmind on November 20, 2012, 04:40:49 PM
The seating arrangement of the Greek HH Pope Theodore II is interesting.

HE Met. Bakhomious got the Coptic HH Pope Theodore II's papacy off to a good start.  His Arabic (Classical, that is) was excellent.

H.E.'s speech was great, but not without grammatical mistakes, I was a bit irritated when H.E. "كان يكسر المفعول به و ينصب المضاف إليه" (sorry can't write this in English). But, of course, this doesn't diminish the value of his great words that really showed how humble he is.