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Moderated Forums => Convert Issues => Topic started by: converted viking on October 28, 2012, 03:49:55 PM

Title: Hate name
Post by: converted viking on October 28, 2012, 03:49:55 PM
Hi:

So here is the problem.  My given name is Norse and most defiantly pagan and when I was chrismated I took the name Seraphim.  I wish I could get folks at least at the church I am  member of to use it but for what ever reason they stick to the old name.  As a matter of fact I was visiting my daughter up in Virginia and at the church I  went to up there, the priest asked me what my name was. I gave him my chrismation name and was promptly asked, no what is your real name. Annoying. He did this in front of all of the parishioners.  

Seraphim
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: bergschlawiner on October 28, 2012, 03:53:47 PM
Norse pagan?  There are orthodox priests with such western names as Elliot or Jefferson or whatever and even a GC bishop named Judson.  I am sure that some consideration should be given going back to the Norse origins of Kiev-Rus.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Schultz on October 28, 2012, 03:56:06 PM
Hi:

So here is the problem.  My given name is Norse and most defiantly pagan and when I was chrismated I took the name Seraphim.  I wish I could get folks at least at the church I am  member of to use it but for what ever reason they stick to the old name.  As a matter of fact I was visiting my daughter up in Virginia and at the church I  went to up there, the priest asked me what my name was. I gave him my chrismation name and was promptly asked, no what is your real name. Annoying. He did this in front of all of the parishioners.  

Seraphim

if you really want people to call you by your chrismation name, legally change your name and no one can argue with you.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: NicholasMyra on October 28, 2012, 04:12:46 PM
So here is the problem.  My given name is Norse and most defiantly pagan and when I was chrismated I took the name Seraphim.  I wish I could get folks at least at the church I am  member of to use it but for what ever reason they stick to the old name.  

Pagan names:

Theophilus

Justinian

Maximus

Olga

Demetrios

Apollos

etc.

If your god is too weak to sanctify a name, is he worthy of worship?
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: converted viking on October 28, 2012, 04:16:55 PM
Norse pagan?  There are orthodox priests with such western names as Elliot or Jefferson or whatever and even a GC bishop named Judson.  I am sure that some consideration should be given going back to the Norse origins of Kiev-Rus.

Yes I can see your point but.   From the Old Norse name Einarr, derived from the elements ein "one, alone" and arr "warrior". This name shares the same roots as einherjar, the word for the slain warriors in Valhalla.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: converted viking on October 28, 2012, 04:19:35 PM

[/quote]

if you really want people to call you by your chrismation name, legally change your name and no one can argue with you.
[/quote]

Very true, major hassle though. (-;
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: converted viking on October 28, 2012, 04:21:07 PM
So here is the problem.  My given name is Norse and most defiantly pagan and when I was chrismated I took the name Seraphim.  I wish I could get folks at least at the church I am  member of to use it but for what ever reason they stick to the old name.  

Pagan names:

Theophilus

Justinian

Maximus

Olga

Demetrios

Apollos

etc.

If your god is too weak to sanctify a name, is he worthy of worship?

  OUCH !!!  OK  point taken.   Well done.    Thanks.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Ansgar on October 28, 2012, 04:39:51 PM
Many saints had non christian names. St. Ansgar's name derives from the older Asgeirr, which means "spear of the æsir"
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Fabio Leite on October 28, 2012, 07:12:15 PM
There was a certain Bishop Lucifer, whom some consider a saint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_of_Cagliari

Lucifer Calaritanus (Italian: Lucifero da Cagliari) (d. May 20, 370 or 371) was a bishop of Cagliari in Sardinia known for his passionate opposition to Arianism. He is venerated as a Saint in Sardinia, though his status remains controversial.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: William on October 28, 2012, 07:17:40 PM
There was a certain Bishop Lucifer, whom some consider a saint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_of_Cagliari

Lucifer Calaritanus (Italian: Lucifero da Cagliari) (d. May 20, 370 or 371) was a bishop of Cagliari in Sardinia known for his passionate opposition to Arianism. He is venerated as a Saint in Sardinia, though his status remains controversial.

You learn something everyday.

What was up with that guy's parents, though?
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Jetavan on October 28, 2012, 07:26:06 PM
There's even a Cardinal Zen (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/cardinal-zen-says-vatican-needs-tougher-approach-to-china/). I hope he can be Pope Zen one day.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: NicholasMyra on October 28, 2012, 07:28:33 PM

  OUCH !!!  OK  point taken.   Well done.    Thanks.

Always worth keeping things in perspective.  ;)

Sorry if that was a bit harsh, I was trying to bring out the conclusions we sometimes don't realize.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: converted viking on October 28, 2012, 07:58:35 PM
Thanks everyone for helping me get some perspective on this issue.   Hmmmmm, I wonder if I should use the handle Orthodox Vangarian? :laugh:
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: jmbejdl on October 29, 2012, 04:31:48 AM
There was a certain Bishop Lucifer, whom some consider a saint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_of_Cagliari

Lucifer Calaritanus (Italian: Lucifero da Cagliari) (d. May 20, 370 or 371) was a bishop of Cagliari in Sardinia known for his passionate opposition to Arianism. He is venerated as a Saint in Sardinia, though his status remains controversial.

You learn something everyday.

What was up with that guy's parents, though?

It just means 'light bringer'. It's not necessarily got the satanic connotations in other languages that it does in English. For instance, in Romanian Luceafar is much more likely to be a reference to the morning star than it is to a demon.

James
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: LBK on October 29, 2012, 05:02:27 AM
FWIW, Photophoros and its Slavic equivalent do not exist as Orthodox Christian names. Can't be a coincidence.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: jmbejdl on October 29, 2012, 06:31:01 AM
FWIW, Photophoros and its Slavic equivalent do not exist as Orthodox Christian names. Can't be a coincidence.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody's ever baptised Luceafar in Romania either, but I was replying only to the effect that it may not have had the connotations to his parents that it has to English speakers. Assuming that the morning/evening star connotation in Romanian is a common Latin one (which seems reasonable) it's quite possible that it looked totally innocuous to bishop Lucifer's parents (and they could quite easily have been pagan anyway). In fact, it could conceivably have been seen as a very positive name - a secondary meaning in Romanian is as an epithet for a man with exceptional qualities (according to the DEX - I've never heard it used as such myself). Having said that, Lucifer (which is effectively the same name in a slightly different form) does refer to Satan in Romanian, I just think it's interesting that a positive connotation remains, at least in part, in at least one romance language.

James
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Jason.Wike on November 01, 2012, 12:02:46 AM
FWIW, Photophoros and its Slavic equivalent do not exist as Orthodox Christian names. Can't be a coincidence.

Phosphoros would be the word in Greek and Danica in Slavic languages.

Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on November 01, 2012, 01:09:54 AM
Be polite but firm. When people ask me what my real name is, I say, "Gebre Menfes Kidus is my real name. It's the name God gave me at my baptism, so that's the name I choose to go by."

If they disrespect your baptism name, they disrespect God. Never be ashamed of your Christian name! :)


Selam
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Melodist on November 01, 2012, 01:28:20 AM
My given name is... most defiantly pagan

So are the names of all of our saints (except for maybe the names that have a Jewish origin).
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Fabio Leite on November 01, 2012, 07:26:41 AM
FWIW, Photophoros and its Slavic equivalent do not exist as Orthodox Christian names. Can't be a coincidence.
Phosphoros would be the word in Greek and Danica in Slavic languages.

"Fósforo" is the Portuguese word for matches. :)
(http://blig.ig.com.br/reninhaa/files/2009/01/fosforo_fogo.jpg)

Does this mean everytime we light a match we burn a little demon's head? :D
(http://www.deviantart.com/download/182595753/grumpy_fire_imp_by_kitrakaya-d30pns9.jpg)
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: jmbejdl on November 01, 2012, 07:39:32 AM
FWIW, Photophoros and its Slavic equivalent do not exist as Orthodox Christian names. Can't be a coincidence.
Phosphoros would be the word in Greek and Danica in Slavic languages.

"Fósforo" is the Portuguese word for matches. :)
(http://blig.ig.com.br/reninhaa/files/2009/01/fosforo_fogo.jpg)

Does this mean everytime we light a match we burn a little demon's head? :D
(http://www.deviantart.com/download/182595753/grumpy_fire_imp_by_kitrakaya-d30pns9.jpg)

Interestingly enough, a now obsolete and old fashioned English term for a match is a lucifer too.

James
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: age234 on November 01, 2012, 08:53:13 AM
Norse pagan?  There are orthodox priests with such western names as Elliot or Jefferson or whatever and even a GC bishop named Judson.  I am sure that some consideration should be given going back to the Norse origins of Kiev-Rus.

Yes I can see your point but.   From the Old Norse name Einarr, derived from the elements ein "one, alone" and arr "warrior". This name shares the same roots as einherjar, the word for the slain warriors in Valhalla.

Then it's your task to sanctify the name Einarr! Become a saint and someday people will take it as a Christian name.

Because, while many saints may have taken Christian names, frequently they are known by their secular names in the Church.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: choy on November 01, 2012, 02:48:14 PM
There's even a Cardinal Zen (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/cardinal-zen-says-vatican-needs-tougher-approach-to-china/). I hope he can be Pope Zen one day.

That pales in comparisson to former Manila Archbishop (of Blessed Memory) Jaime Cardinal Sin
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: akimori makoto on November 02, 2012, 12:53:22 AM
If it's any consolation, I really dislike my baptismal name and wish I could exchange it for my secular name.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: vamrat on November 02, 2012, 03:50:36 PM
If it's any consolation, I really dislike my baptismal name and wish I could exchange it for my secular name.

Haralambos?
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: akimori makoto on November 02, 2012, 06:56:46 PM
If it's any consolation, I really dislike my baptismal name and wish I could exchange it for my secular name.

Haralambos?

Hahaha, no, I suppose things could be worse.

It's Ioannis, which I don't mind all that much, but it invariably becomes "Yanni" or "Yannaki" *shudder*.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Shanghaiski on November 02, 2012, 09:52:24 PM
If it's any consolation, I really dislike my baptismal name and wish I could exchange it for my secular name.

Haralambos?

Hahaha, no, I suppose things could be worse.

It's Ioannis, which I don't mind all that much, but it invariably becomes "Yanni" or "Yannaki" *shudder*.

You could start only answering to Johann or Johannes or Juan or whatever John is in Japanese.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: vamrat on November 02, 2012, 10:45:12 PM
If it's any consolation, I really dislike my baptismal name and wish I could exchange it for my secular name.

Haralambos?

Hahaha, no, I suppose things could be worse.

It's Ioannis, which I don't mind all that much, but it invariably becomes "Yanni" or "Yannaki" *shudder*.

You could start only answering to Johann or Johannes or Juan or whatever John is in Japanese.

Everyone knows the Orthodox way of saying John is Ivan.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Thomas on November 02, 2012, 11:37:06 PM
Tell the priest that you have abandoned your old, pagan name and wish to beknown by your Christian name. There should not be an issue---he is required to call you at Communion by your christian name. If there is a further problem discuss it with your bishop. I don't think it will get to that point. The importnat thing to rmember is that if you ever do make sainthood you will be called Saint (your pagan name) as that is how the church increases the saintly names of the church.

Thomas
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: converted viking on November 03, 2012, 11:26:23 AM
Tell the priest that you have abandoned your old, pagan name and wish to beknown by your Christian name. There should not be an issue---he is required to call you at Communion by your christian name. If there is a further problem discuss it with your bishop. I don't think it will get to that point. The importnat thing to rmember is that if you ever do make sainthood you will be called Saint (your pagan name) as that is how the church increases the saintly names of the church.

Thomas

Hi Thomas.  My Parish priest and the deacon do use my Christian name.  The issue was what happened while I was visiting at another church and my fellow parishioners being more comfortable with my old name<apparently> . In hindsight I guess it is not a big deal and at least it has  provoked some thoughtful discussion here.

Seraphim   
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Shanghaiski on November 03, 2012, 05:08:09 PM
If it's any consolation, I really dislike my baptismal name and wish I could exchange it for my secular name.

Haralambos?

Vanyuchka, Vanya, etc. No one goes by Ivan except the tsar, and then it's "Gosudar."
Hahaha, no, I suppose things could be worse.

It's Ioannis, which I don't mind all that much, but it invariably becomes "Yanni" or "Yannaki" *shudder*.

You could start only answering to Johann or Johannes or Juan or whatever John is in Japanese.

Everyone knows the Orthodox way of saying John is Ivan.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Nathanael on November 03, 2012, 06:08:31 PM
There's even a saint Ahmed.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: sprtslvr1973 on November 03, 2012, 09:03:04 PM
Hi:

So here is the problem.  My given name is Norse and most defiantly pagan and when I was chrismated I took the name Seraphim.  I wish I could get folks at least at the church I am  member of to use it but for what ever reason they stick to the old name.  As a matter of fact I was visiting my daughter up in Virginia and at the church I  went to up there, the priest asked me what my name was. I gave him my chrismation name and was promptly asked, no what is your real name. Annoying. He did this in front of all of the parishioners.  

Seraphim

Why don't we go one better and copy the error I made. Secretly resent Jewish people who have "Christian" names like John
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: converted viking on November 03, 2012, 10:09:10 PM
Hi:

So here is the problem.  My given name is Norse and most defiantly pagan and when I was chrismated I took the name Seraphim.  I wish I could get folks at least at the church I am  member of to use it but for what ever reason they stick to the old name.  As a matter of fact I was visiting my daughter up in Virginia and at the church I  went to up there, the priest asked me what my name was. I gave him my chrismation name and was promptly asked, no what is your real name. Annoying. He did this in front of all of the parishioners.  

Seraphim

Why don't we go one better and copy the error I made. Secretly resent Jewish people who have "Christian" names like John

I'm sorry, I must be stupid as I don't get what you are trying to say.

Seraphim
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: biro on November 03, 2012, 10:16:47 PM
You could get a bowling shirt with a nickname on it. Then everybody would call you that. :)
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: sprtslvr1973 on November 03, 2012, 10:33:07 PM
Hi:

So here is the problem.  My given name is Norse and most defiantly pagan and when I was chrismated I took the name Seraphim.  I wish I could get folks at least at the church I am  member of to use it but for what ever reason they stick to the old name.  As a matter of fact I was visiting my daughter up in Virginia and at the church I  went to up there, the priest asked me what my name was. I gave him my chrismation name and was promptly asked, no what is your real name. Annoying. He did this in front of all of the parishioners.  

Seraphim

Why don't we go one better and copy the error I made. Secretly resent Jewish people who have "Christian" names like John

I'm sorry, I must be stupid as I don't get what you are trying to say.

Seraphim

I am sorry for not being clear. I guess I was just saying we don't need to let a name become such an obstacle.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: serb1389 on November 03, 2012, 11:59:54 PM
I've asked obvious converts what their "real name" is, but it's always out of curiosity & to give me one more thing to connect to them with.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: VarangianGuard on November 14, 2012, 10:43:45 AM
ConvertedViking,

Be proud of your Norse name, mate.
Christians did not shun "Jol" (Yule), but they sanctified it.

I don't really get the idea why  Greek, Middle Eastern or Slavic names are more holy than other names. They were once pagan too.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: vamrat on November 14, 2012, 11:13:40 AM
I've asked obvious converts what their "real name" is, but it's always out of curiosity & to give me one more thing to connect to them with.

How do you tell when someone is an obvious convert?  I just want to compare notes.  Usually I know when they come up and their name is something like "Procopius" and they aren't wearing track pants with a leather jacket.  I find that a dead give away.
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: celticfan1888 on November 14, 2012, 11:47:08 AM
Saint Olav's name was actually Ōleifr in Old Norse, which means "ancestor's heirloom". If St. Olav was okay with a pagan name, you will be okay. :)
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: serb1389 on November 14, 2012, 06:20:12 PM
I've asked obvious converts what their "real name" is, but it's always out of curiosity & to give me one more thing to connect to them with.

How do you tell when someone is an obvious convert?  I just want to compare notes.  Usually I know when they come up and their name is something like "Procopius" and they aren't wearing track pants with a leather jacket.  I find that a dead give away.

it's hard to explain.  If I see an African American whose name is "Seraphim" that's a dead give away.  But yah, interesting names are usually a give away no matter what the person looks like.  Even greek people with the name "Barsanuphios" are suspect in my book. 

Sorry, I don't really have an answer for you, but I do always say "oh common, what's your real name" which they arn't usually fans of.  I'm just trying to get to know them though. 
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: converted viking on November 15, 2012, 09:10:52 PM
Thanks to all who responded to my post, there have been interesting discussions here and replies that have put me more at ease.

Einar aka Seraphim
Title: Re: Hate name
Post by: Seraphim98 on November 18, 2012, 11:56:35 PM
Someone is probably going to yell at me for this…but you could consider the Greek close equivalent of your name…which translates into English as "one who fights alone": Monomakhos.

Seriously don't worry over much about it. The germanic word God/Gott that we use without blinking an eye instead of Greek term Theos was in origin a generic term for demon/spirt. Consider the closely related English word giddy (original sense…a little bit possessed/out of one's normal mind)

My given name is Robert. It was once an epithet of the god Thor (means bright/shining with fame), but there is in Slovakia and neighboring Germanic coasts a St. Rupert from about AD 900 or so. Rupert/Robert same name…same origin. A name is what you make it (a rose is a rose)…fulfill the best possible meanings of the name by your life in Christ…the day may well come when you or another lone warrior are responsible for a convert in the following generation not having to ask if its a saint's name. It will be.