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Moderated Forums => Faith Issues => Topic started by: walter1234 on September 23, 2012, 04:11:07 AM

Title: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: walter1234 on September 23, 2012, 04:11:07 AM
How do orthodox christians understand/view of Trinity??
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: Cyrillic on September 23, 2012, 06:36:04 AM
Three Persons, one essence. The Son is begotten of the Father, the Spirit proceeds from the Father.
 
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: Kerdy on September 23, 2012, 06:40:01 AM
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: walter1234 on September 23, 2012, 10:45:48 PM
What are the difference between father , son and holy spirit???
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: Shanghaiski on September 23, 2012, 11:01:15 PM
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: Kerdy on September 23, 2012, 11:53:47 PM
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.
Guess its a good thing I'm not a priest. :o
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: Knee V on September 23, 2012, 11:59:41 PM
The Cappadocian Fathers were clear about the Divinity of the Godhead stemming from the Divinity of the Father. In other words, the Son and the Holy Spirit are God because the Father is God. They would say that it is wrong to speak of a common Divine Essence as if that common Divine Essence were itself something that binds all Three together, almost like a 4th member of the Trinity. So instead of starting with the notion of One Essence for all three Persons, they start with the Person of the Father and Him being God. From the Father the Son is eternally begotten. And since He is eternally begotten of the Father, He is what (not who, but what) the Father is. And from the Father the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds. And since He eternally proceeds from the Father, He is what the Father is (and also what the Son is). Thus the Son and the Holy Spirit are God because the Father is God. The Trinity is One because the Father is One. Yes, they are One Essence, but only because that is the Essence of the Father as the Fountainhead of Divinity.
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: NicholasMyra on September 24, 2012, 01:02:05 AM
How do orthodox christians understand/view of Trinity??

There is one God, the Father Almighty;

The Father has a Word and a Spirit;

The Father has always had a Word and a Spirit;

The Word and Spirit are Divine because the Father has always had them, and because they come from Him.
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: IoanC on September 24, 2012, 11:41:32 AM
A common metaphor is thinking of the sun. The sun has disc (The Father), rays (The Son), and light (The Spirit); all three in one sun.

A more complicated answer:
The differences between The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are as important as the fact that only together they are God. It is false to think of God as one person, to think that only God The Father is God, etc.. The Father is the source of The Trinity and the Will. The Son is begotten by The Father and He is The Wisdom (or Logos, or Icon). The Spirit is proceeded from The Father and He is, well, The Spirit. Each One is one aspect of God, and together They are One. So, there are Three Equal Divine Persons, each fully Divine, but Each has a different quality than the Others.
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 24, 2012, 01:06:30 PM
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.

Question.  If the son was begotten of the father, that would suggest that the father existed before the son right?   I don't understand "eternally begotten" I guess.  Perhaps it doesn't meet human logic...  I have no idea.
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: orthonorm on September 24, 2012, 01:33:38 PM
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.

Question.  If the son was begotten of the father, that would suggest that the father existed before the son right?   I don't understand "eternally begotten" I guess.  Perhaps it doesn't meet human logic...  I have no idea.

No father exists before his son does. This is just taking a simple phenomenological insight and going pro with it.

You can pretty much ditch the essence talk which begets the ontological / economical split within Trinitarian language. Everything that you really need to know is in the Creed. 
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: NicholasMyra on September 24, 2012, 02:13:08 PM
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.

Question.  If the son was begotten of the father, that would suggest that the father existed before the son right?   I don't understand "eternally begotten" I guess.  Perhaps it doesn't meet human logic...  I have no idea.

Eternally begotten means that the Word is not only begotten of the father at one event, but that he is always being begotten.
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: orthonorm on September 24, 2012, 02:23:16 PM
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.

Question.  If the son was begotten of the father, that would suggest that the father existed before the son right?   I don't understand "eternally begotten" I guess.  Perhaps it doesn't meet human logic...  I have no idea.

Eternally begotten means that the Word is not only begotten of the father at one event, but that he is always being begotten.

That's not the problem. No son is ever begotten in a single moment.

It is that in order to beget you must exist.

Therefore, the Father must exist in some manner before the Son.

But this is no problem, since fathers never precede their sons. Procession is the rise of both son and father.
Title: Re: How do orthodox christians understand/ view of Trinity??
Post by: NicholasMyra on September 24, 2012, 05:01:50 PM
I'm still pretty new to Orthodoxy, so my understanding may still be tainted from Protestantism.  But my understanding, outside the Nicene Creed we use, is three parts of the same source, used for different purposes.

This borders on heresy.

Three distinct persons, one essense, each existing from before all eternity. The Son is eternally begotten from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.

Question.  If the son was begotten of the father, that would suggest that the father existed before the son right?   I don't understand "eternally begotten" I guess.  Perhaps it doesn't meet human logic...  I have no idea.

Eternally begotten means that the Word is not only begotten of the father at one event, but that he is always being begotten.

That's not the problem. No son is ever begotten in a single moment.

It is that in order to beget you must exist.

Therefore, the Father must exist in some manner before the Son.

But this is no problem, since fathers never precede their sons. Procession is the rise of both son and father.

I already thought your answer was correct!