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Moderated Forums => Liturgy => Topic started by: Nicene on July 31, 2012, 11:48:31 PM

Title: Maranatha
Post by: Nicene on July 31, 2012, 11:48:31 PM
This word appears twice in the new testament as far as I know, and is unique in that it isnt greek but is actually aramaic. Now someone asked me if this appears at all within our liturgies, and since I don't speak or understand the greek liturgy at all that well I just want to ask does this word ever appear in any of our liturgies?
John Chrysostom, Basil and the like?

Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 01, 2012, 01:20:53 AM
Any invocation of the Lord's Coming is a rough translation of Maranatha, and we have plenty of those in the Liturgy.

Or do you mean the use of the literal aramaic phrase?
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: augustin717 on August 01, 2012, 01:45:32 AM
It appears, iirc, in some anathemas, the formula being something like :"...anathema, maranatha with the devil and his angels...". Sounds funny.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: Orthodox11 on August 01, 2012, 01:54:59 AM
This word appears twice in the new testament as far as I know, and is unique in that it isnt greek but is actually aramaic. Now someone asked me if this appears at all within our liturgies, and since I don't speak or understand the greek liturgy at all that well I just want to ask does this word ever appear in any of our liturgies?
John Chrysostom, Basil and the like?

I cannot recall the phrase itself being used in a liturgical context beyond readings. The same goes for "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani" and other untranslated Aramaic phrases from the NT.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: Nicene on August 01, 2012, 01:03:54 PM
Any invocation of the Lord's Coming is a rough translation of Maranatha, and we have plenty of those in the Liturgy.

Or do you mean the use of the literal aramaic phrase?
The literal word maranatha.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: Benjamin the Red on August 02, 2012, 01:54:22 PM
I have heard some priests say "Maranatha" or "Maranatha, come Lord Jesus" immediately after they complete the epiclesis at the Liturgy. I've never seen this in a service book, though.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: stanley123 on August 02, 2012, 01:58:27 PM
It appears, iirc, in some anathemas, the formula being something like :"...anathema, maranatha with the devil and his angels...". Sounds funny.
So what is the difference between:
anathema and
anathema maranatha?
Also, are you excommunicated if you do something which has been anathematised or anathematised with a maranatha?
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: mike on August 02, 2012, 02:27:22 PM
I thought this thread was about that song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_tupPBtWQ)
.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: augustin717 on August 02, 2012, 07:55:15 PM
I have heard some priests say "Maranatha" or "Maranatha, come Lord Jesus" immediately after they complete the epiclesis at the Liturgy. I've never seen this in a service book, though.
Perhaps they were speaking in tongues. Wouldn't be surprised.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: Benjamin the Red on August 02, 2012, 08:01:24 PM
I have heard some priests say "Maranatha" or "Maranatha, come Lord Jesus" immediately after they complete the epiclesis at the Liturgy. I've never seen this in a service book, though.
Perhaps they were speaking in tongues. Wouldn't be surprised.

Cute. I doubt it, though. I don't know of many that do it, but they do it at every Liturgy, like some informal tradition they received. I've never asked about it. Perhaps I should.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: augustin717 on August 02, 2012, 09:41:12 PM
I have heard some priests say "Maranatha" or "Maranatha, come Lord Jesus" immediately after they complete the epiclesis at the Liturgy. I've never seen this in a service book, though.
Perhaps they were speaking in tongues. Wouldn't be surprised.

Cute. I doubt it, though. I don't know of many that do it, but they do it at every Liturgy, like some informal tradition they received. I've never asked about it. Perhaps I should.
It doesn't sound like a custom that would have arisen among the orthodox. Sounds pretentious. Plus hearing the epiclesis isn't traditional either.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: akimori makoto on August 02, 2012, 10:45:53 PM
I have heard some priests say "Maranatha" or "Maranatha, come Lord Jesus" immediately after they complete the epiclesis at the Liturgy. I've never seen this in a service book, though.
Perhaps they were speaking in tongues. Wouldn't be surprised.

Cute. I doubt it, though. I don't know of many that do it, but they do it at every Liturgy, like some informal tradition they received. I've never asked about it. Perhaps I should.
It doesn't sound like a custom that would have arisen among the orthodox. Sounds pretentious. Plus hearing the epiclesis isn't traditional either.

It also seems a bit out of place after the epiklesis.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 02, 2012, 11:04:39 PM
I have heard some priests say "Maranatha" or "Maranatha, come Lord Jesus" immediately after they complete the epiclesis at the Liturgy. I've never seen this in a service book, though.
Perhaps they were speaking in tongues. Wouldn't be surprised.

Cute. I doubt it, though. I don't know of many that do it, but they do it at every Liturgy, like some informal tradition they received. I've never asked about it. Perhaps I should.
It doesn't sound like a custom that would have arisen among the orthodox. Sounds pretentious. Plus hearing the epiclesis isn't traditional either.

It also seems a bit out of place after the epiklesis.

"And then all of God's laos said..."
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: akimori makoto on August 02, 2012, 11:09:22 PM
I have heard some priests say "Maranatha" or "Maranatha, come Lord Jesus" immediately after they complete the epiclesis at the Liturgy. I've never seen this in a service book, though.
Perhaps they were speaking in tongues. Wouldn't be surprised.

Cute. I doubt it, though. I don't know of many that do it, but they do it at every Liturgy, like some informal tradition they received. I've never asked about it. Perhaps I should.
It doesn't sound like a custom that would have arisen among the orthodox. Sounds pretentious. Plus hearing the epiclesis isn't traditional either.

It also seems a bit out of place after the epiklesis.

"And then all of God's laos said..."

Spell it out for me!
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 02, 2012, 11:30:26 PM
Spell it out for me!
AY-MEN! Oh, PRAISE to that-a consubstantial-uh and-a life-creatin' Trinity-yah!

*clap* *clap* *clap* *clap*
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: akimori makoto on August 02, 2012, 11:32:24 PM
Spell it out for me!
AY-MEN! Oh, PRAISE to that-a consubstantial-uh and-a life-creatin' Trinity-yah!

*clap* *clap* *clap* *clap*

I see what you're saying, but I also think this presents a confusion of the Divine Persons.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: Orthodox11 on August 02, 2012, 11:45:11 PM
It also seems a bit out of place after the epiklesis.

Appropriate perhaps in the context of the Gregorian liturgy, in which the anaphora is addressed to God the Son. In any other context, however, I, like you, am uncomfortable with its inclusion after the epiklesis. Perhaps the Russian inclusion of the 3rd Hour troparion has led some priests to believe that it's okay to insert any prayer that 'kinda sounds like it belongs'.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: Benjamin the Red on August 03, 2012, 12:12:35 AM
I've heard this done while I was serving. The epiclesis was done during, "we praise thee, we bless thee," and spoken, most likely inaudible to those in the nave, and "marantha" said immediately after the triple "amen."

I understood saying it at that point to be a recognition of Christ coming in the Eucharist and a prayer for the glorious second coming.
Title: Re: Maranatha
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 04, 2012, 03:36:52 PM
I see what you're saying, but I also think this presents a confusion of the Divine Persons.
You certainly don't mean that black baptist congregations are subject to Western influence, do you?  :o