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Moderated Forums => Liturgy => Topic started by: Shiny on June 27, 2012, 02:15:14 PM

Title: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Shiny on June 27, 2012, 02:15:14 PM
Saw this from a friend on facebook, just beautiful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8N6-QxhEDs
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Cantor Krishnich on June 27, 2012, 02:41:59 PM
Very beautiful but why isnt there an iconostasis or veil in this cathedral?
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Schultz on June 27, 2012, 03:15:22 PM
There is a door and a veil, which you can clearly see at 9:52.
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: mike on June 27, 2012, 03:30:55 PM
Aren't they bishopless Byzantine-Rite Protestants?
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Shiny on June 27, 2012, 03:32:58 PM
Aren't they bishopless Byzantine-Rite Protestants?
I haven't heard that but are they not canonical Orthodox?
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Orthodox11 on June 27, 2012, 03:49:01 PM
Aren't they bishopless Byzantine-Rite Protestants?

The only Byzantine rite Protestants in the region are the Georgian Baptists, although they do have bishops.
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Schultz on June 27, 2012, 03:56:26 PM
Some more info on this cathedral can be found on the Irenikon Yahoo! group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irenikon/message/48906)
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: mike on June 27, 2012, 03:57:47 PM
Aren't they bishopless Byzantine-Rite Protestants?

The only Byzantine rite Protestants in the region are the Georgian Baptists, although they do have bishops.

How one can be Orthodox without a bishop?
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on June 27, 2012, 04:21:54 PM
Aren't they bishopless Byzantine-Rite Protestants?

Are you saying this because the video is not showing a hierarchical liturgy?
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on June 27, 2012, 04:22:26 PM
Has anyone noticed that the only communicants are little children?
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Iconodule on June 27, 2012, 04:24:26 PM
Michal is referring to the fact that the schismatic Abkhaz Orthodox Church has no bishops at the moment. I don't think that's enough to call them Protestant though.
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Benjamin the Red on July 08, 2012, 02:42:25 PM
Michal is referring to the fact that the schismatic Abkhaz Orthodox Church has no bishops at the moment. I don't think that's enough to call them Protestant though.

I would tend to agree. The Abkhazian Church is an Orthodox schismatic group that currently lacks an episcopacy. The events of the region are complex and quite tragic. To my knowledge, they aren't in any way Protestant (in the Protestant Reformation since of the word).

But I do agree that this video is absolutely beautiful.
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Alpo on July 08, 2012, 02:49:39 PM
Schismatics! Is outrage! I bet they have secret pews somewhere too.
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: mike on July 08, 2012, 02:58:52 PM
To my knowledge, they aren't in any way Protestant (in the Protestant Reformation since of the word).

Isn't not having a bishop Protestant?
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: neon_knights on July 08, 2012, 03:33:25 PM
To my knowledge, they aren't in any way Protestant (in the Protestant Reformation since of the word).

Isn't not having a bishop Protestant?

No. A lot of Protestant groups have bishops.
Title: Re: AMAZING Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. Panteleimona in Abkhazia.
Post by: Benjamin the Red on July 08, 2012, 04:43:15 PM
To my knowledge, they aren't in any way Protestant (in the Protestant Reformation since of the word).

Isn't not having a bishop Protestant?

No. A lot of Protestant groups have bishops.

Right. Lutherans, Anglicans and Calvinists all used to have bishops. Anglicans still do, and some Lutherans. Most Calvinists later took a presbyterian polity (though some went into congregational-styled groups), but a few remain in Anglican circles. Methodists also still have bishops, though their polity isn't traditionally episcopal these days. Before they joined with the United Brethren, the biggest Methodist denomination in the US was known as the "Methodist Episcopal Church."

Lacking an episcopacy is a hallmark more of the Radical Reformation, of which Baptists, Amish, Shakers, Quakers and Mennonites are the modern descendents. Though some of these employ an episcopal polity (such as the Evangelical Baptist Church of Georgia, which was mentioned above). Likewise, some denominations have split off to become non-episcopal (such as the Holiness and Pentecostal churches that come from the Methodists...though the African-American Pentecostals have a rather traditionally-structured episcopacy, more-so than the Methodists of today).

When I say "Protestant" I'm more referring to the ideas of Sola Scriptura, Faith Alone by Grace Alone and other, related concepts that are alien to the historic Christian Faith.