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Moderated Forums => Liturgy => Topic started by: mike on June 04, 2012, 07:09:05 PM

Title: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mike on June 04, 2012, 07:09:05 PM
No, I don't mean Matins, Hours or Proskomede.

Just out of curiosity.

Mine at 10 o'clock.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Asteriktos on June 04, 2012, 07:09:53 PM
Fwiw, a lot of parishes I've visited have different times for summer and [everything else]...
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mike on June 04, 2012, 07:10:37 PM
Fwiw, a lot of parishes I've visited have different times for summer and [everything else]...

Let say for majority of the year.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Shanghaiski on June 04, 2012, 07:19:30 PM
"Too early" should have been an option.  :angel:
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mike on June 04, 2012, 07:57:50 PM
Actually some of the people from my parish complain that the DL is to late.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Shanghaiski on June 04, 2012, 08:41:12 PM
Actually some of the people from my parish complain that the DL is to late.

I think it's possible to be one or the other--too early or too late. I found that, for me, 10 a.m. was a good time--provided there wasn't Matins proceeding it. I guess I'm a Slav trapped in a Greek liturgical routine, preferring longer evening services to longer morning services, and vigils of vepsers and matins to matins and liturgy combined. I don't know how I'd be with the Greek vigil which, IIRC, combines vepsers, compline, and liturgy.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Benjamin the Red on June 04, 2012, 09:47:59 PM
"Blessed is the Kingdom..." is at 10am on Sundays for us.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on June 04, 2012, 10:09:58 PM

10 a.m. sharp!  Be there or be square!
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Ionnis on June 04, 2012, 11:24:48 PM
The Hours begin at 7:40 am and Divine Liturgy at 8.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: scamandrius on June 04, 2012, 11:50:56 PM
Whenever we chanters get done with Orthros, which starts at 8:45 and gets done 10 ish.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: biro on June 04, 2012, 11:56:01 PM
This time of year, 9:15.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: JamesR on June 04, 2012, 11:57:40 PM
9:30 and it lasts until about 11:45.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Maximum Bob on June 05, 2012, 12:10:49 AM
The Hours begin at 7:40 am and Divine Liturgy at 8.
Wow, that is early.



Our starts at 9:30 AM and runs til 11:30 or 11:45.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: bytania on June 05, 2012, 12:27:55 AM
Mine is at 6:30 am! I think We beat the record...thanks to Ethiopian Orthodox! :))))) It DEFINITELY isn't easy waking up at 5am on a sunday morning to make it on time

Bytania
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mike on June 05, 2012, 12:28:34 AM
The earliest scheduled Liturgy I've been to is actually in my official parish and starts at 7.45. However that parish has also Liturgies at 9.00 o'clock (in the basement church) and at 10.00 o'clock.

The parish I attend in Białystok has two Liturgies (8.00 and 10.00).
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: JamesR on June 05, 2012, 12:39:06 AM
The earliest scheduled Liturgy I've been to is actually in my official parish and starts at 7.45. However that parish has also Liturgies at 9.00 o'clock (in the basement church) and at 10.00 o'clock.

The parish I attend in Białystok has two Liturgies (8.00 and 10.00).

Doesn't it violate Canon to have two Liturgies on the same day or something?
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mike on June 05, 2012, 12:42:48 AM
Different priests, different antimensions.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: JamesRottnek on June 05, 2012, 12:45:10 AM
The earliest scheduled Liturgy I've been to is actually in my official parish and starts at 7.45. However that parish has also Liturgies at 9.00 o'clock (in the basement church) and at 10.00 o'clock.

The parish I attend in Białystok has two Liturgies (8.00 and 10.00).

Doesn't it violate Canon to have two Liturgies on the same day or something?

There are a few possible things going on: 1.) There are multiple priests and altars, and thus they are easily able to serve multiple liturgies; 2.) Bishops can grant exceptions to the one liturgy a day thing, if I'm not mistaken, though it would probably be rather unusual for a parish to have a standing exception in a place (like Poland) that has a substantial number of Orthodox (which makes me think number one is probably correct); 3.) Something I have forgotten or don't know about.

Anyways, are your liturgies really just an hour long, Michal?

EDIT: Damn, Michal beat me to it.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mike on June 05, 2012, 12:50:39 AM
When there are 2 Liturgies per Sunday priests manage to do it without problems. When there are 3 (in 2 or 3 churches in Poland) the middle one is celebrated in the basement where there are separate churches/chapels.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Νεκτάριος on June 05, 2012, 01:11:13 AM
Actually some of the people from my parish complain that the DL is to late.

That is really late.  I'm already home by then.  8:00 here.  I end up working most Sundays so I really don't have time to lay around in bed until 9:00, saunter over to liturgy and get home at 13:00 or 14:00.  But the other problem is good luck getting more than one or two people under 30 at liturgy if it starts before 10:00. 
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mabsoota on June 05, 2012, 05:34:58 AM
sunday it's 9.30.
today it was 5am.
of the 50 or so people there, most were under 25 (and several looked under 16).
as i am enjoying a bank holiday, (thanks to living in a monarchy!) i did have another nap on arriving home.
it was a lovely liturgy!
 :)
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Ansgar on June 05, 2012, 06:58:50 AM
We start at 9.30 and the liturgy ussualy ends around 11.45.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Dominika on June 05, 2012, 07:53:16 AM
My parish has two Liturgies: the first is at 8:30 (in basement) and the second one at 10 ("main" church). The first is rather for children, because after it they have religion lesson. The readings are done in Polish. Although this Liturgy is served by my priest, it's definitely too early for me, so I've been there only once. The second Liturgy is more festive and served by a few priests. The readings unfortunately are usually done only in Church-slavonic.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Orthodox11 on June 05, 2012, 08:18:46 AM
The time varies depending on the length of Orthros, which starts at 9. Typically it'll start some time between 10:20-10:40 and will finish 12:30-45. On weekdays, when Orthros is usually shorter, the Liturgy will start around 10.

After spending a lot of time in Cyprus, where parish Liturgies commonly start at 7:30, I've come to like earlier services. It also means Orthros is held at a time closer to what is proper.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: ialmisry on June 05, 2012, 08:59:29 AM
9. So I'm told.

All the OCA parishes I attended were at 9:30, though in the summer it switched to 9 or 10 IIRC.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Schultz on June 05, 2012, 10:01:49 AM
Hours at 9:15, Liturgy at 9:30, over about 11:00.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: akimori makoto on June 06, 2012, 02:20:36 AM
But the other problem is good luck getting more than one or two people under 30 at liturgy if it starts before 10:00. 

Or ever.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mabsoota on June 06, 2012, 08:25:29 AM
just my opinion; if u emphasise the scary, life changing side of Christianity, the young folk are interested.
if it's hard work (forgiving enemies, facing challenges and not running away) and if it works (peace, joy, and a low proportion of hypocrites in the church) then the young like it.
they won't like a cosy social club where people natter in small groups but don't make spiritual progress.
they do like (it seems to me) the stories of the martyrs, singing loudly and being among people who genuinely love them and who give them opportunities to serve and to be significant (in the church community and in the community around them).

in my friend's church, young (and a few older) folk befriend the late night revellers and homeless people in their city, sharing spiritual advice when appropriate. this and similar things has had a big impact on the number of teenagers and young adults wanting to attend church, study the Bible and pray.

young people need action, not entertainment.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mike on June 06, 2012, 01:33:41 PM
Νεκτάριος  lives in Ukraine. Churches there are far from "cosy social clubs".
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mabsoota on June 06, 2012, 05:21:29 PM
it was a general comment, not directed to a particular person.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on June 06, 2012, 06:37:44 PM

10 a.m. sharp!  Be there or be square!

10 am is the announced time but DL may start a bit early or late as it flows seamlessly from Hours. To be on the safe side, gotta be there by 0945 if one wants to "be there or be square."  ;D
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on June 06, 2012, 06:43:52 PM
I have to add that in my congregation, it is hard to separate Hours, Liturgy and the Agape Meal. Let me put it this way: We are at Church from about 0930 until about 1330. There are of course some folks who tend to show up on or about 1000 and do not stay for the Agape Meal, but for most folks, it is about four hours.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: William on June 06, 2012, 06:48:28 PM
10:30. Late late late.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: genesisone on June 06, 2012, 08:21:48 PM
10:30. Late late late.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Ours, too, is at 10:30. And I've even heard our priest suggest that we should start later - so everybody can be there on time! I don't agree with his reasoning at all. People who arrive late plan to be late. If we start at 11:00, the same ones will arrive at 11:10. I don't know how people can get to work every day by 8 am or catch a plane at 5 am but can't get to DL by 10:30 ???  If it were up to me, I'd have Orthros at 7, DL at 8. That's one battle I haven't got a chance of winning :D.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Cavaradossi on June 06, 2012, 09:45:43 PM
Other. We normally start Orthros at 7:45, with the first liturgy immediately after that sometime around 9:00 and a second liturgy immediately after that, usually around 10:30-11:00, depending on the length of the first liturgy. During the Summer, when we only do one liturgy, we do Orthros at 8:15 and the liturgy sometime around 9:30.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Father H on June 06, 2012, 09:47:08 PM
10:30. Late late late.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Ours, too, is at 10:30. And I've even heard our priest suggest that we should start later - so everybody can be there on time! I don't agree with his reasoning at all. People who arrive late plan to be late. If we start at 11:00, the same ones will arrive at 11:10. I don't know how people can get to work every day by 8 am or catch a plane at 5 am but can't get to DL by 10:30 ???  If it were up to me, I'd have Orthros at 7, DL at 8. That's one battle I haven't got a chance of winning :D.


Two points.  

I think it is a bad thing unless absolutely pragmatically necessary.  The Typikon expressly states that the Sunday Liturgy should be, at least in part, no later than at least part of it taking place during the 3rd hour of the day (9am hour), but can be earlier.   10am is the tail end of this time frame, as it is the end of the 3rd hour of the day.  When we have Liturgy so late, we make it into a fast day, as the difference between a feast and a fast day is not meat, but when the Liturgy is concluded (not delaying or ridding oneself of breakfast--the morning meal).  The Sabbas Typikon and older Typika say expressly that the fast should be broken no later than the 4th hour of the day on a Sunday (i.e. 10am).  Of course, this rubric was removed from the Violakis Typikon (mid-19th century) which is what Antioch tends to use.  

On the second point, you are correct that they will adjust their lateness.  They are habitually late people.  They are the ones who arrive late to work, and who hold up planes and are why the cabin door is not closed sooner.  

Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Father H on June 06, 2012, 09:47:56 PM
BTW ours starts are 9:45am on Sundays
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Maximum Bob on June 06, 2012, 09:57:42 PM
I have to add that in my congregation, it is hard to separate Hours, Liturgy and the Agape Meal. Let me put it this way: We are at Church from about 0930 until about 1330. There are of course some folks who tend to show up on or about 1000 and do not stay for the Agape Meal, but for most folks, it is about four hours.

 :laugh: Yeah, us too, only a half hour earlier.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Subdeacon Michael on June 08, 2012, 03:09:05 AM
We begin the hours at roughly 9.40-9.45 and the Liturgy immediately follows, so I chose the option 10.00 in the poll.

My parish priest would prefer an early Liturgy, (and, in principle, so would I), but many of our people travel long distances to get to church.  I know that UK and US perceptions of what constitute "a long distance" are very different but this is due to differences in land size, and these differences have an immense effect on town and city planning, availability of transportation, and driving culture (learning to drive is not a social rite of passage in the UK in the same way that it is in the US, and many people happily get through life without ever needing to drive anywhere - then, my American friends in the UK tell me that our public transportation system is much more extensive and reliable).  Therefore, my 40-mile journey through two cities to church may not seem a long way to many readers while it will be unthinkably long to others.  In any case, Sunday morning public transportation means that it takes three hours, give or take ten minutes.  A number of our people are in a similar situation, and a Liturgy any earlier than ten o' clock would simply be impossible to get to on time.

M
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Bigsinner on June 08, 2012, 06:10:29 AM
Hours at 9:15, Liturgy at 9:30, over about 11:00.

Ditto.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: mildert on June 08, 2012, 07:43:19 AM
We used to start at 11am, about 3 years ago we moved it back to 10:30.  Personally I would prefer to start around 9:30.

In XC,

Deacon Philip
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Arachne on January 02, 2013, 11:19:55 AM
10:30 on Sundays, 9:30 on weekdays. Personally, I think an hour earlier would be an improvement in both cases.
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: jmbejdl on January 02, 2013, 11:29:03 AM
Ours doesn't start until 12:00. That, though, is because unfortunately we don't have our own church and need to wait until after the Anglicans have finished with it before we can start. I would love it if we could have it earlier, but I'd much rather have it late than not at all.

James
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Alpo on January 02, 2013, 12:47:00 PM
Ours doesn't start until 12:00. That, though, is because unfortunately we don't have our own church and need to wait until after the Anglicans have finished with it before we can start. I would love it if we could have it earlier, but I'd much rather have it late than not at all.

James

Wait, what? Romanian EOs have to lend a church from Anglicans? ???
Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: jmbejdl on January 02, 2013, 12:59:05 PM
Ours doesn't start until 12:00. That, though, is because unfortunately we don't have our own church and need to wait until after the Anglicans have finished with it before we can start. I would love it if we could have it earlier, but I'd much rather have it late than not at all.

James

Wait, what? Romanian EOs have to lend a church from Anglicans? ???

Yes. I'm in the UK and the parish is only just over a year old. My old parish in Yorkshire now has its own church but when we were there they too used an Anglican church building. Hopefully we'll have our own church too some day but given that when we started attending the parish in Yorkshire back in about 2003/4 it was the only Romanian parish outside of London and they only just got their own church last year, I guess we need to be patient.

James

Title: Re: What time does your Sunday Liturgy start?
Post by: Alpo on January 04, 2013, 05:46:25 PM
Ours doesn't start until 12:00. That, though, is because unfortunately we don't have our own church and need to wait until after the Anglicans have finished with it before we can start. I would love it if we could have it earlier, but I'd much rather have it late than not at all.

James

Wait, what? Romanian EOs have to lend a church from Anglicans? ???

Yes. I'm in the UK

D'oh. I thought Romanian EOs within Romania.