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Moderated Forums => Free-For-All => Non-Religious Topics => Topic started by: LizaSymonenko on May 09, 2012, 11:53:54 AM

Title: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 09, 2012, 11:53:54 AM

(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/7D/3755B878D430E3DE53B0EE99D633AF.jpg)

http://now.msn.com/now/0508-australia-man-drought.aspx

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.




I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: primuspilus on May 09, 2012, 11:54:43 AM
Fat guys and neck-beards rejoice...there is hope for you yet :)

PP
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LBK on May 09, 2012, 11:57:32 AM
Quote
Single men and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study.

Study? It's a complete crock, if this was the sampling technique. But should we expect any better from an MSN story?  ::)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Melodist on May 09, 2012, 12:11:09 PM
They are more than welcome to send their extra women here if it's that big of a problem.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 09, 2012, 12:11:13 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 09, 2012, 12:14:57 PM

(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/7D/3755B878D430E3DE53B0EE99D633AF.jpg)

http://now.msn.com/now/0508-australia-man-drought.aspx

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.




I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 
Perhaps adopting realistic expectations would be a better wording.  Especially if the divorce courts are anything like those of the US, marriage is an unappealing proposition for men to begin with.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Melodist on May 09, 2012, 12:19:16 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Your method may be more effective though.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Papist on May 09, 2012, 12:29:02 PM

(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/7D/3755B878D430E3DE53B0EE99D633AF.jpg)

http://now.msn.com/now/0508-australia-man-drought.aspx

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.




I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 
Perhaps adopting realistic expectations would be a better wording.  Especially if the divorce courts are anything like those of the US, marriage is an unappealing proposition for men to begin with.
Agreed. I have read multiple articles over the past few years about how women's standards for men are just unobtainable. It seems that many want to marry:

(http://smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net/806D5E/wordpress-live/images/fan-captainamerica-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: HabteSelassie on May 09, 2012, 12:33:04 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/7D/3755B878D430E3DE53B0EE99D633AF.jpg)

http://now.msn.com/now/0508-australia-man-drought.aspx

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.




I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 

Lets not get caught up in sensationalism.  We are stilling talking about the Catholic Church, which is often mocked as prudish in the 21st century, so I hardly think that when the Church there says "lower their standards" it quite translates to what is commonly laughed at as lowered standards or lowered expectations.  I don't think the Church was implying anything other than that people be more willing to marry people out of their usual comfort zone albeit still within the traditional Catholic prerequisites. For example, I wouldn't assume they were saying marry Pentecostals so much as if Catholic folks only wanted to marry other Catholic blonds with certain incomes perhaps they should readjust that standard and be more flexibly Catholic :)

Quote
"Are women getting too choosy? I'd say yes," Father Tony Kerin from the Archdiocese of Melbourne told the Herald Sun of Australia. "I think many are setting aside their aspirations for later, but by the time they get around to it, they've missed their chance."
from the OP article link

Further it doesn't seem this was some kind of decree or even sermon, rather just the GlobalPost insinuating a lot from a small interview with an individual priest who was speaking on behalf of the Melbourne Diocese for an interview.  I wouldn't call it ecumenical then ;)

stay blessed,
habte selassie


Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 09, 2012, 01:26:02 PM
Quote
Single men and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study.

Study? It's a complete crock, if this was the sampling technique. But should we expect any better from an MSN story?  ::)

It's the number one reason over time which women will want to have in a man: economic stability.

Which one of my many liabilities I have to make up with my stupidly generous levels of wit, charm, psychological techniques of abuse, and looks.

Actually, height is more important to women than money, but money while a distant second is light years from whatever any woman says she wants.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 09, 2012, 01:28:05 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 09, 2012, 01:44:49 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.



No worse than listening to someone from the Midwest.

Or worse...southwestern VA. *shudder*
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 09, 2012, 01:46:14 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.



No worse than listening to someone from the Midwest.

Or worse...southwestern VA. *shudder*

I am from the Midwest.

I am routinely told over and over and over and over and over and over and over throughout my life from people of all walks and places what a lovely voice I have.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 09, 2012, 01:49:27 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.



No worse than listening to someone from the Midwest.

Or worse...southwestern VA. *shudder*

I am from the Midwest.

I am routinely told over and over and over and over and over and over and over throughout my life from people of all walks and places what a lovely voice I have.



That's why I said what I did.

I'm sure you have a lovely, bland, characterless Midwest voice. ;)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ZealousZeal on May 09, 2012, 01:51:12 PM

(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/7D/3755B878D430E3DE53B0EE99D633AF.jpg)

http://now.msn.com/now/0508-australia-man-drought.aspx

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.




I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 
Perhaps adopting realistic expectations would be a better wording.  Especially if the divorce courts are anything like those of the US, marriage is an unappealing proposition for men to begin with.
Agreed. I have read multiple articles over the past few years about how women's standards for men are just unobtainable. It seems that many want to marry:

(http://smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net/806D5E/wordpress-live/images/fan-captainamerica-1.jpg)


Whoa, whoa whoa... No need to drag Chris Evans into this.  ;)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 09, 2012, 02:21:56 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.



No worse than listening to someone from the Midwest.

Or worse...southwestern VA. *shudder*

I am from the Midwest.

I am routinely told over and over and over and over and over and over and over throughout my life from people of all walks and places what a lovely voice I have.



That's why I said what I did.

I'm sure you have a lovely, bland, characterless Midwest voice. ;)

Green figuratively doesn't look good on you.

If there is one thing I will never be accused of:

Not being a character. That includes my manner of speaking.

People rarely place me correctly geographically.

To the Germans, I am Dutch.

To the Austrians, I am German.

To the Yanks, I am from the South.

To da Sof, I am from the North.

To the West Coast, I am right.

To the East Coast, I am left.

To the Ulster Scots / White Trash, I am educated.

To the Educated, I am white trash.

To the Blacks, I am a cracker.

To the Crackers, I am a wigger.

To the gays, I am straight.

To the homophobe, I am at least bi-curious.

To the, OK I am done.

I am all things people most wish they were and simultaneously were not.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 09, 2012, 02:25:56 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.


You assume he would listen to her.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 09, 2012, 02:29:03 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.


You assume he would listen to her.

I do project my nobler qualities onto my fellow men more often than I should.

Thank you for pointing out this rare short-coming of mine.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 09, 2012, 02:56:40 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.



No worse than listening to someone from the Midwest.

Or worse...southwestern VA. *shudder*

I am from the Midwest.

I am routinely told over and over and over and over and over and over and over throughout my life from people of all walks and places what a lovely voice I have.



That's why I said what I did.

I'm sure you have a lovely, bland, characterless Midwest voice. ;)

Green figuratively doesn't look good on you.

If there is one thing I will never be accused of:

Not being a character. That includes my manner of speaking.

People rarely place me correctly geographically.

To the Germans, I am Dutch.

To the Austrians, I am German.

To the Yanks, I am from the South.

To da Sof, I am from the North.

To the West Coast, I am right.

To the East Coast, I am left.

To the Ulster Scots / White Trash, I am educated.

To the Educated, I am white trash.

To the Blacks, I am a cracker.

To the Crackers, I am a wigger.

To the gays, I am straight.

To the homophobe, I am at least bi-curious.

To the, OK I am done.

I am all things people most wish they were and simultaneously were not.


Touche.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 09, 2012, 03:00:24 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.



No worse than listening to someone from the Midwest.

Or worse...southwestern VA. *shudder*

I am from the Midwest.

I am routinely told over and over and over and over and over and over and over throughout my life from people of all walks and places what a lovely voice I have.



That's why I said what I did.

I'm sure you have a lovely, bland, characterless Midwest voice. ;)

Green figuratively doesn't look good on you.

If there is one thing I will never be accused of:

Not being a character. That includes my manner of speaking.

People rarely place me correctly geographically.

To the Germans, I am Dutch.

To the Austrians, I am German.

To the Yanks, I am from the South.

To da Sof, I am from the North.

To the West Coast, I am right.

To the East Coast, I am left.

To the Ulster Scots / White Trash, I am educated.

To the Educated, I am white trash.

To the Blacks, I am a cracker.

To the Crackers, I am a wigger.

To the gays, I am straight.

To the homophobe, I am at least bi-curious.

To the, OK I am done.

I am all things people most wish they were and simultaneously were not.


Touche.

As a matter of fact I am touchy about the subject! Really, I am a monotonous, nasally droning bore.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 09, 2012, 03:44:30 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.


You assume he would listen to her.

And quite the assumption at that.  Geesh.  Next he's going to want me to help her clean the kitchen or something...
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 09, 2012, 03:46:50 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.


You assume he would listen to her.

And quite the assumption at that.  Geesh.  Next he's going to want me to help her clean the kitchen or something...

I figured you would argue that you do by your gluttonous behavior.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 09, 2012, 04:09:01 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.


You assume he would listen to her.

And quite the assumption at that.  Geesh.  Next he's going to want me to help her clean the kitchen or something...

I figured you would argue that you do by your gluttonous behavior.

Oh, I'll clean my plate, but that's about where it ends.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: akimori makoto on May 09, 2012, 05:29:11 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Australian "women" are barely worthy of that title.

Further words of disdain for PM only.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: akimori makoto on May 09, 2012, 05:31:48 PM
I have a friend who is on about AU$70,000 a year and who is quite plain-looking.

She wants a good-looking guy who earns more than her (she has also expressed certain preferences in relation to the size of his equipment).

I have tried to explain to her that good-looking dudes with lots of money and giant penises don't want plain girls who aren't heiresses, but it doesn't seem to sink in.

Sadly, I think this friend is representative of the average Australian single woman.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 09, 2012, 05:34:11 PM
I have a friend who is on about AU$70,000 a year and who is quite plain-looking.

She wants a good-looking guy who earns more than her (she has also expressed certain preferences in relation to the size of his equipment).

I have tried to explain to her that good-looking dudes with lots of money and giant penises don't want plain girls who aren't heiresses, but it doesn't seem to sink in.

Sadly, I think this friend is representative of the average Australian single woman.

I am missing only one of those qualifications. And plain looking is OK. I am great at make overs.

Can she learn to speak proper American?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: akimori makoto on May 09, 2012, 05:35:09 PM
I have a friend who is on about AU$70,000 a year and who is quite plain-looking.

She wants a good-looking guy who earns more than her (she has also expressed certain preferences in relation to the size of his equipment).

I have tried to explain to her that good-looking dudes with lots of money and giant penises don't want plain girls who aren't heiresses, but it doesn't seem to sink in.

Sadly, I think this friend is representative of the average Australian single woman.

I am missing only one of those qualifications. And plain looking is OK. I am great at make overs.

Can she learn to speak proper American?

You can do better, my friend, though she is quite lovely once her sense of entitlement to the most amazing partner ever is excised from her personality.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 09, 2012, 05:40:06 PM
I have a friend who is on about AU$70,000 a year and who is quite plain-looking.

She wants a good-looking guy who earns more than her (she has also expressed certain preferences in relation to the size of his equipment).

I have tried to explain to her that good-looking dudes with lots of money and giant penises don't want plain girls who aren't heiresses, but it doesn't seem to sink in.

Sadly, I think this friend is representative of the average Australian single woman.

I am missing only one of those qualifications. And plain looking is OK. I am great at make overs.

Can she learn to speak proper American?

You can do better, my friend, though she is quite lovely once her sense of entitlement to the most amazing partner ever is excised from her personality.

I hope everyone knows, I jest. I let my desire for a wisecrack get the better of me.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 09, 2012, 05:48:46 PM
I have a friend who is on about AUUSD$70,000 a year and who is quite plain-looking.

She wants a good-looking guy who earns more than her (she has also expressed certain preferences in relation to the size of his equipment).

I have tried to explain to her that good-looking dudes with lots of money and giant penises don't want plain girls who aren't heiresses, but it doesn't seem to sink in.

Sadly, I think this friend is representative of the average Australian American single woman.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Papist on May 09, 2012, 06:13:38 PM
I have a friend who is on about AUUSD$70,000 a year and who is quite plain-looking.

She wants a good-looking guy who earns more than her (she has also expressed certain preferences in relation to the size of his equipment).

I have tried to explain to her that good-looking dudes with lots of money and giant penises don't want plain girls who aren't heiresses, but it doesn't seem to sink in.

Sadly, I think this friend is representative of the average Australian American single woman.
Yep. Interestingly, I think the Church-going girls are the worst. I often joke that the girls from parish suffer from "princess syndrome", and I'm not even looking for a spouse myself.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: akimori makoto on May 09, 2012, 06:16:19 PM
Actually, height is more important to women than money, but money while a distant second is light years from whatever any woman says she wants.

Orthonorm gets it.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Maria on May 09, 2012, 07:37:29 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/7D/3755B878D430E3DE53B0EE99D633AF.jpg)

http://now.msn.com/now/0508-australia-man-drought.aspx

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.




I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 

Lets not get caught up in sensationalism.  We are stilling talking about the Catholic Church, which is often mocked as prudish in the 21st century, so I hardly think that when the Church there says "lower their standards" it quite translates to what is commonly laughed at as lowered standards or lowered expectations.  I don't think the Church was implying anything other than that people be more willing to marry people out of their usual comfort zone albeit still within the traditional Catholic prerequisites. For example, I wouldn't assume they were saying marry Pentecostals so much as if Catholic folks only wanted to marry other Catholic blonds with certain incomes perhaps they should readjust that standard and be more flexibly Catholic :)

Quote
"Are women getting too choosy? I'd say yes," Father Tony Kerin from the Archdiocese of Melbourne told the Herald Sun of Australia. "I think many are setting aside their aspirations for later, but by the time they get around to it, they've missed their chance."
from the OP article link

Further it doesn't seem this was some kind of decree or even sermon, rather just the GlobalPost insinuating a lot from a small interview with an individual priest who was speaking on behalf of the Melbourne Diocese for an interview.  I wouldn't call it ecumenical then ;)

stay blessed,
habte selassie




When I was attending a Catholic university, the Dominican chaplain told the ladies (it was a co-ed college at that time) that many bachelors were no longer virgins and so women who were hoping to find Prince Charming could not expect nor should they even ask their boyfriends if they were still virgins.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Papist on May 09, 2012, 07:39:00 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/7D/3755B878D430E3DE53B0EE99D633AF.jpg)

http://now.msn.com/now/0508-australia-man-drought.aspx

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.




I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 

Lets not get caught up in sensationalism.  We are stilling talking about the Catholic Church, which is often mocked as prudish in the 21st century, so I hardly think that when the Church there says "lower their standards" it quite translates to what is commonly laughed at as lowered standards or lowered expectations.  I don't think the Church was implying anything other than that people be more willing to marry people out of their usual comfort zone albeit still within the traditional Catholic prerequisites. For example, I wouldn't assume they were saying marry Pentecostals so much as if Catholic folks only wanted to marry other Catholic blonds with certain incomes perhaps they should readjust that standard and be more flexibly Catholic :)

Quote
"Are women getting too choosy? I'd say yes," Father Tony Kerin from the Archdiocese of Melbourne told the Herald Sun of Australia. "I think many are setting aside their aspirations for later, but by the time they get around to it, they've missed their chance."
from the OP article link

Further it doesn't seem this was some kind of decree or even sermon, rather just the GlobalPost insinuating a lot from a small interview with an individual priest who was speaking on behalf of the Melbourne Diocese for an interview.  I wouldn't call it ecumenical then ;)

stay blessed,
habte selassie




When I was attending a Catholic university, the Dominican chaplain told the ladies (it was a co-ed college at that time) that many bachelors were no longer virgins and so women who were hoping to find Prince Charming could not expect nor should they even ask their boyfriends if they were still virgins.
I think that the dangers of HPV provide women with a justifiable reason to ask.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Maria on May 09, 2012, 07:42:44 PM
I wonder if Akimori would let me crash in his place for a couple weeks.  I'm moving to Australia!

EDIT - Melodist's method might be the cheaper option.  I'll cover the plane tickets!

Have you had to listen to an Australian for longer than 10 minutes?

It would require a rare combination of qualities or a few years of speech therapy to overcome that hurdle.



I have talked with Australians and perfectly understand them, but I do have an M.A. in Linguistics and have taught English as a Second Language courses. Before I began my studies in linguistics, I have always tried to listen to those people who present with an accent. Actually, we all have our own idiolect ... our own accent.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: FormerReformer on May 09, 2012, 07:43:08 PM
I have a friend who is on about AUUSD$70,000 a year and who is quite plain-looking.

She wants a good-looking guy who earns more than her (she has also expressed certain preferences in relation to the size of his equipment).

I have tried to explain to her that good-looking dudes with lots of money and giant penises don't want plain girls who aren't heiresses, but it doesn't seem to sink in.

Sadly, I think this friend is representative of the average Australian American single woman.
Yep. Interestingly, I think the Church-going girls are the worst. I often joke that the girls from parish suffer from "princess syndrome", and I'm not even looking for a spouse myself.

I run the risk of being labeled a heretical ecumenicist by saying this, but:

Preach it, Brother!
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Maria on May 09, 2012, 07:57:11 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/7D/3755B878D430E3DE53B0EE99D633AF.jpg)

http://now.msn.com/now/0508-australia-man-drought.aspx

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.




I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 

Lets not get caught up in sensationalism.  We are stilling talking about the Catholic Church, which is often mocked as prudish in the 21st century, so I hardly think that when the Church there says "lower their standards" it quite translates to what is commonly laughed at as lowered standards or lowered expectations.  I don't think the Church was implying anything other than that people be more willing to marry people out of their usual comfort zone albeit still within the traditional Catholic prerequisites. For example, I wouldn't assume they were saying marry Pentecostals so much as if Catholic folks only wanted to marry other Catholic blonds with certain incomes perhaps they should readjust that standard and be more flexibly Catholic :)

Quote
"Are women getting too choosy? I'd say yes," Father Tony Kerin from the Archdiocese of Melbourne told the Herald Sun of Australia. "I think many are setting aside their aspirations for later, but by the time they get around to it, they've missed their chance."
from the OP article link

Further it doesn't seem this was some kind of decree or even sermon, rather just the GlobalPost insinuating a lot from a small interview with an individual priest who was speaking on behalf of the Melbourne Diocese for an interview.  I wouldn't call it ecumenical then ;)

stay blessed,
habte selassie




When I was attending a Catholic university, the Dominican chaplain told the ladies (it was a co-ed college at that time) that many bachelors were no longer virgins and so women who were hoping to find Prince Charming could not expect nor should they even ask their boyfriends if they were still virgins.
I think that the dangers of HPV provide women with a justifiable reason to ask.

Exactly. AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases should also be justifiable concerns of both the future bride and groom.

If a guy or a girl is not a virgin when he/she ties the knot, doesn't this lack of chastity place their marriage at greater risk of an adulterous affair later on?

I knew several co-eds who married men who were quite the playboy before marriage, but these men promised their future brides that they would be faithful. Since these men were truly honest before marriage and repentant, they were able to keep their marriage vows. The holy sacrament of Confession is truly a help that should not be neglected.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Hiwot on May 09, 2012, 08:03:34 PM
I have a friend who is on about AUUSD$70,000 a year and who is quite plain-looking.

She wants a good-looking guy who earns more than her (she has also expressed certain preferences in relation to the size of his equipment).

I have tried to explain to her that good-looking dudes with lots of money and giant penises don't want plain girls who aren't heiresses, but it doesn't seem to sink in.

Sadly, I think this friend is representative of the average Australian American single woman.
Yep. Interestingly, I think the Church-going girls are the worst. I often joke that the girls from parish suffer from "princess syndrome", and I'm not even looking for a spouse myself.

I run the risk of being labeled a heretical ecumenicist by saying this, but:

Preach it, Brother!

LOL! ouch!  :D , some of us are the very definition of a proletariat  :angel: and abhor monarchy lol
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Papist on May 09, 2012, 08:07:13 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/7D/3755B878D430E3DE53B0EE99D633AF.jpg)

http://now.msn.com/now/0508-australia-man-drought.aspx

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.




I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 

Lets not get caught up in sensationalism.  We are stilling talking about the Catholic Church, which is often mocked as prudish in the 21st century, so I hardly think that when the Church there says "lower their standards" it quite translates to what is commonly laughed at as lowered standards or lowered expectations.  I don't think the Church was implying anything other than that people be more willing to marry people out of their usual comfort zone albeit still within the traditional Catholic prerequisites. For example, I wouldn't assume they were saying marry Pentecostals so much as if Catholic folks only wanted to marry other Catholic blonds with certain incomes perhaps they should readjust that standard and be more flexibly Catholic :)

Quote
"Are women getting too choosy? I'd say yes," Father Tony Kerin from the Archdiocese of Melbourne told the Herald Sun of Australia. "I think many are setting aside their aspirations for later, but by the time they get around to it, they've missed their chance."
from the OP article link

Further it doesn't seem this was some kind of decree or even sermon, rather just the GlobalPost insinuating a lot from a small interview with an individual priest who was speaking on behalf of the Melbourne Diocese for an interview.  I wouldn't call it ecumenical then ;)

stay blessed,
habte selassie




When I was attending a Catholic university, the Dominican chaplain told the ladies (it was a co-ed college at that time) that many bachelors were no longer virgins and so women who were hoping to find Prince Charming could not expect nor should they even ask their boyfriends if they were still virgins.
I think that the dangers of HPV provide women with a justifiable reason to ask.

Exactly. AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases should also be justifiable concerns of both the future bride and groom.

If a guy or a girl is not a virgin when he/she ties the knot, doesn't this lack of chastity place their marriage at greater risk of an adulterous affair later on?

Agreed. I specifically bring up HPV, because for men it is often asymptomatic and there is no test to determine if a male is infected. To make matters worse, it can casue uterine cancer in women.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 09, 2012, 08:08:04 PM
Australians are loud, brash bores. So basically I'd be marrying a female version of myself? No thank you, mate.

The general advice isn't bad, though. If everybody out there is looking for the same thing (and I have a hard time believing that they aren't), then obviously most people will continue to be disappointed, as the few prince charmings who do exist probably know that they're great and desirable, and can pick and choose their mates accordingly. The rest of us? Eh...better either luck out or get used to being alone if you're going to insist on having a guy who is a pretty boy, with a body builder's body, also smart and cultured, able to cook, in touch with his feelings or whatever, gets along with all your friends and family, etc.

I'm not married, but I hope if I ever am blessed in that way I will keep in mind Louis CK's sage wisdom on the subject of being content with your spouse: "Some things do get easier as you've married for a while, you start to understand each other better, and you start looking at yourself more. You spend a lot of your marriage looking at the other person and trying to change them or figure them out, then you start realizing what you're bringing to the table, and you blame them less for [stuff]."

I think if more people had this kind of attitude when looking for/at their mate, we'd all be a lot happier. Or everybody's just crazy. I dunno.



Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: xariskai on May 09, 2012, 08:10:17 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LBK on May 09, 2012, 08:12:15 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

The article didn't say "single fathers", but "single men". Quite a difference.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Hiwot on May 09, 2012, 08:14:59 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/7D/3755B878D430E3DE53B0EE99D633AF.jpg)

http://now.msn.com/now/0508-australia-man-drought.aspx

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.




I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 

Lets not get caught up in sensationalism.  We are stilling talking about the Catholic Church, which is often mocked as prudish in the 21st century, so I hardly think that when the Church there says "lower their standards" it quite translates to what is commonly laughed at as lowered standards or lowered expectations.  I don't think the Church was implying anything other than that people be more willing to marry people out of their usual comfort zone albeit still within the traditional Catholic prerequisites. For example, I wouldn't assume they were saying marry Pentecostals so much as if Catholic folks only wanted to marry other Catholic blonds with certain incomes perhaps they should readjust that standard and be more flexibly Catholic :)

Quote
"Are women getting too choosy? I'd say yes," Father Tony Kerin from the Archdiocese of Melbourne told the Herald Sun of Australia. "I think many are setting aside their aspirations for later, but by the time they get around to it, they've missed their chance."
from the OP article link

Further it doesn't seem this was some kind of decree or even sermon, rather just the GlobalPost insinuating a lot from a small interview with an individual priest who was speaking on behalf of the Melbourne Diocese for an interview.  I wouldn't call it ecumenical then ;)

stay blessed,
habte selassie




When I was attending a Catholic university, the Dominican chaplain told the ladies (it was a co-ed college at that time) that many bachelors were no longer virgins and so women who were hoping to find Prince Charming could not expect nor should they even ask their boyfriends if they were still virgins.
I think that the dangers of HPV provide women with a justifiable reason to ask.

Exactly. AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases should also be justifiable concerns of both the future bride and groom.

If a guy or a girl is not a virgin when he/she ties the knot, doesn't this lack of chastity place their marriage at greater risk of an adulterous affair later on?

Agreed. I specifically bring up HPV, because for men it is often asymptomatic and there is no test to determine if a male is infected. To make matters worse, it can casue uterine cancer in women.
Absolutely!
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: xariskai on May 09, 2012, 08:15:23 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?
Hahaha,

I just Googled teacher salaries -looks like no single male Australian teacher would qualify as marriage material according to the study unless they get a second job:

Quote from: educationworld.net
New South Wales

Teachers in New South Wales are currently among the best paid in Australia.

    Starting salary 4-year trained (eg BEd) = $41,109
    Starting salary 5-year trained (eg BEd BA, BEd BSc, BA MTeach, BSc MTeach) = $43,225
    Top of teacher salary scale (Step 13) = $58,692

http://www.educationworld.net/salaries_aus.htm
l
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: xariskai on May 09, 2012, 08:16:51 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

The article didn't say "single fathers", but "single men". Quite a difference.
Point was about the second clause "those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LBK on May 09, 2012, 08:18:16 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

The article didn't say "single fathers", but "single men". Quite a difference.
Point was about the second clause "those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Fair enough. But excluding "single men" makes this whole "study" a crock.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Papist on May 09, 2012, 08:20:46 PM

 The rest of us? Eh...better either luck out or get used to being alone if you're going to insist on having a guy who is a pretty boy, with a body builder's body, also smart and cultured, able to cook, in touch with his feelings or whatever, gets along with all your friends and family, etc.


I think you just described a gay man. Is that what women are looking for?  ;D
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 09, 2012, 08:23:59 PM
Wow Thank you, Papist. I really just thought of the opposite of myself, given my spectacular success with the ladies. And to think I had thought it was because I'm not much to look at (definitely don't meet the tall requirement, either). It's a relief to find out that I'm really just too manly for them to handle. 8)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Maria on May 09, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Papist on May 09, 2012, 08:27:51 PM
Wow Thank you, Papist. I really just thought of the opposite of myself, given my spectacular success with the ladies. And to think I had thought it was because I'm not much to look at (definitely don't meet the tall requirement, either). It's a relief to find out that I'm really just too manly for them to handle. 8)
Turns out you are dripping with masculinity.   :D
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 09, 2012, 08:33:18 PM

 The rest of us? Eh...better either luck out or get used to being alone if you're going to insist on having a guy who is a pretty boy, with a body builder's body, also smart and cultured, able to cook, in touch with his feelings or whatever, gets along with all your friends and family, etc.


I think you just described a gay man. Is that what women are looking for?  ;D

Bloodhound Gang - I wish I was queer so I could get chicks.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Maria on May 09, 2012, 08:33:48 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

Oh, I just remembered that she also passed his second test as well.

He took her and his five children on a fishing trip the next Saturday. She put worms on the children's fishing rods and helped them catch some pretty terrific trout, which she cleaned and cooked for their dinner.

She was quite a catch herself.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Hiwot on May 09, 2012, 09:05:23 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

The article didn't say "single fathers", but "single men". Quite a difference.
Point was about the second clause "those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Fair enough. But excluding "single men" makes this whole "study" a crock.

especialy when it ends up concluding from such a data, that there is 'a dire man drought' it just seems to want to call the women up there bunch of gold diggers without saying it outright.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: witega on May 09, 2012, 09:17:47 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: jewish voice on May 09, 2012, 09:22:24 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

The article didn't say "single fathers", but "single men". Quite a difference.
Point was about the second clause "those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Fair enough. But excluding "single men" makes this whole "study" a crock.

especialy when it ends up concluding from such a data, that there is 'a dire man drought' it just seems to want to call the women up there bunch of gold diggers without saying it outright.
I didn't really think that they need to spell it out. Everyone knows that women are gold diggers  :D
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 09, 2012, 09:24:35 PM
especialy when it ends up concluding from such a data, that there is 'a dire man drought' it just seems to want to call the women up there bunch of gold diggers without saying it outright.

Up there? Where do you live? ;D

Your comment brings me back to my childhood, as my mother worked for years as an office assistant for a pediatrician who happened to be Australian (wouldn't be right to call her a receptionist when she also weighed the kids, took their temperature, and the other preliminaries). I remember sitting in his office as a child and staring at a big map he had hung on one wall that looked like this:

(http://www.wpmap.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/upside_down_map.jpg)

At least we know if the women of Australia are having trouble finding men, it's not due to a lack of confidence!
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Hiwot on May 09, 2012, 09:25:09 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

Thank you,Witega you said it ma bro! LOL
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: jnorm888 on May 09, 2012, 09:31:13 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

I had a number of women approach me because they were looking for a father figure for their kids. And so some people do want a wife or husband who could also be a nanny/mentor figure as well.


I personally don't see anything wrong with that for if that's what they want then that's what they want.

It's just that it takes two and so the other person may want something different. I'm almost 35 and so it's getting harder and harder to find someone who:

1.) Wasn't married before

2.) Doesn't have any kids


Most of my dates have been with non Orthodox women. It's extremely difficult to find a single Orthodox woman around my age who was never married before and who doesn't already have children.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Hiwot on May 09, 2012, 09:38:45 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

The article didn't say "single fathers", but "single men". Quite a difference.
Point was about the second clause "those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Fair enough. But excluding "single men" makes this whole "study" a crock.

especially when it ends up concluding from such a data, that there is 'a dire man drought' it just seems to want to call the women up there bunch of gold diggers without saying it outright.
I didn't really think that they need to spell it out. Everyone knows that women are gold diggers  :D

The way I see it more often than not, the exchange is a fair one, between certain two characters among the genders: man wants a trophy wife, woman wants gold nuggets. they both  knew what they want and get what they want. as they saying goes ' it takes two to tango'. Real women and men, don't have enough media coverage. ;)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Hiwot on May 09, 2012, 09:46:44 PM
especialy when it ends up concluding from such a data, that there is 'a dire man drought' it just seems to want to call the women up there bunch of gold diggers without saying it outright.

Up there? Where do you live? ;D

Your comment brings me back to my childhood, as my mother worked for years as an office assistant for a pediatrician who happened to be Australian (wouldn't be right to call her a receptionist when she also weighed the kids, took their temperature, and the other preliminaries). I remember sitting in his office as a child and staring at a big map he had hung on one wall that looked like this:

(http://www.wpmap.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/upside_down_map.jpg)

At least we know if the women of Australia are having trouble finding men, it's not due to a lack of confidence!

hahaha, talk about perspective! I saw the difference between  who is at the center of the map, depending on where you are. people of each continent apparently think that they are the center of the world, or on top of it lol

I guess the women of Australia, have enough reason to be picky, them being on the top of the world, mere mortals must not be too appealing.

perhaps those on Mt. Olympus might have a chance.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Hiwot on May 09, 2012, 10:05:19 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

I had a number of women approach me because they were looking for a father figure for their kids. And so some people do want a wife or husband who could also be a nanny/mentor figure as well.


I personally don't see anything wrong with that for if that's what they want then that's what they want.


The problem I would see with that is, marriage is a whole lot more than raising kids. Even if it was just that, it will still require that the husband and wife be in a real relationship with one another to raise the kids grow up to be decent human beings. if mom and dad, love and like one another, respect one another, share a friendship with one another, are loyal to one another, are there for one another, then kids growing up in that kind of home will grow up being decent human beings; who also other things being equal, will be more likely to have a good relationship and in turn be better parents themselves.

There is a lot wrong in what the man did, assuming ofc its all that he did, to decide on who to marry. he is setting everyone including his kids for a major disappointment IMHO
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 09, 2012, 10:21:55 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

I had a number of women approach me because they were looking for a father figure for their kids. And so some people do want a wife or husband who could also be a nanny/mentor figure as well.


I personally don't see anything wrong with that for if that's what they want then that's what they want.


The problem I would see with that is, marriage is a whole lot more than raising kids. Even if it was just that, it will still require that the husband and wife be in a real relationship with one another to raise the kids grow up to be decent human beings. if mom and dad, love and like one another, respect one another, share a friendship with one another, are loyal to one another, are there for one another, then kids growing up in that kind of home will grow up being decent human beings; who also other things being equal, will be more likely to have a good relationship and in turn be better parents themselves.

There is a lot wrong in what the man did, assuming ofc its all that he did, to decide on who to marry. he is setting everyone including his kids for a major disappointment IMHO
I remember when I used to take my niece out to the playground etc., and the attention I would get from women, including those who didn't have any kids.  I often wondered what they were thinking, as they never asked, and I didn't say, that she was my niece, not my daughter.  I mean, I see a woman with a kid and I think, where's Mr. Kid?

You're right, despite what the well intentioned and moral say, marriage is NOT all about raising children.  They are the corrollary to marriage, and marriage is the context in which they occur (ideally).  But they are not the purpose of marriage.

However, if you have children, you have to find someone who is right for them, because until you are married, your first loyalty is to your children.  After you are married, it is to your spouse.  Hence, choose wisely.   Looking for someone as another parent for your kids, however, is using them as surely using them for sex would be.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ZealousZeal on May 09, 2012, 10:24:00 PM
I'm not married, but I hope if I ever am blessed in that way I will keep in mind Louis CK's sage wisdom on the subject of being content with your spouse: "Some things do get easier as you've married for a while, you start to understand each other better, and you start looking at yourself more. You spend a lot of your marriage looking at the other person and trying to change them or figure them out, then you start realizing what you're bringing to the table, and you blame them less for [stuff]."

I think if more people had this kind of attitude when looking for/at their mate, we'd all be a lot happier. Or everybody's just crazy. I dunno.

Louis CK is so hilarious.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Hiwot on May 09, 2012, 10:28:46 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

I had a number of women approach me because they were looking for a father figure for their kids. And so some people do want a wife or husband who could also be a nanny/mentor figure as well.


I personally don't see anything wrong with that for if that's what they want then that's what they want.


The problem I would see with that is, marriage is a whole lot more than raising kids. Even if it was just that, it will still require that the husband and wife be in a real relationship with one another to raise the kids grow up to be decent human beings. if mom and dad, love and like one another, respect one another, share a friendship with one another, are loyal to one another, are there for one another, then kids growing up in that kind of home will grow up being decent human beings; who also other things being equal, will be more likely to have a good relationship and in turn be better parents themselves.

There is a lot wrong in what the man did, assuming ofc its all that he did, to decide on who to marry. he is setting everyone including his kids for a major disappointment IMHO
I remember when I used to take my niece out to the playground etc., and the attention I would get from women, including those who didn't have any kids.  I often wondered what they were thinking, as they never asked, and I didn't say, that she was my niece, not my daughter.  I mean, I see a woman with a kid and I think, where's Mr. Kid?

You're right, despite what the well intentioned and moral say, marriage is NOT all about raising children.  They are the corrollary to marriage, and marriage is the context in which they occur (ideally).  But they are not the purpose of marriage.

However, if you have children, you have to find someone who is right for them, because until you are married, your first loyalty is to your children.  After you are married, it is to your spouse.  Hence, choose wisely.   Looking for someone as another parent for your kids, however, is using them as surely using them for sex would be.
Wow Isa, I couldn't agree more, on both points. very well said.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 09, 2012, 11:54:12 PM
I'm not married, but I hope if I ever am blessed in that way I will keep in mind Louis CK's sage wisdom on the subject of being content with your spouse: "Some things do get easier as you've married for a while, you start to understand each other better, and you start looking at yourself more. You spend a lot of your marriage looking at the other person and trying to change them or figure them out, then you start realizing what you're bringing to the table, and you blame them less for [stuff]."

I think if more people had this kind of attitude when looking for/at their mate, we'd all be a lot happier. Or everybody's just crazy. I dunno.

Louis CK is so hilarious.

^^^ Gentlemen, I present to you the only litmus test of a woman's worthiness that there should ever be. Congratulations: You pass! ;D Now I guess you go out and find your own Mexican-Hungarian Jew comedian...מזל טוב!
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 01:12:41 AM

 The rest of us? Eh...better either luck out or get used to being alone if you're going to insist on having a guy who is a pretty boy, with a body builder's body, also smart and cultured, able to cook, in touch with his feelings or whatever, gets along with all your friends and family, etc.


I think you just described a gay man. Is that what women are looking for?  ;D
sadly, yes it seems.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: JamesRottnek on May 10, 2012, 02:23:14 AM
Wow Thank you, Papist. I really just thought of the opposite of myself, given my spectacular success with the ladies. And to think I had thought it was because I'm not much to look at (definitely don't meet the tall requirement, either). It's a relief to find out that I'm really just too manly for them to handle. 8)

So gay people are womanly?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Maria on May 10, 2012, 03:30:55 AM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

I had a number of women approach me because they were looking for a father figure for their kids. And so some people do want a wife or husband who could also be a nanny/mentor figure as well.


I personally don't see anything wrong with that for if that's what they want then that's what they want.


The problem I would see with that is, marriage is a whole lot more than raising kids. Even if it was just that, it will still require that the husband and wife be in a real relationship with one another to raise the kids grow up to be decent human beings. if mom and dad, love and like one another, respect one another, share a friendship with one another, are loyal to one another, are there for one another, then kids growing up in that kind of home will grow up being decent human beings; who also other things being equal, will be more likely to have a good relationship and in turn be better parents themselves.

There is a lot wrong in what the man did, assuming ofc its all that he did, to decide on who to marry. he is setting everyone including his kids for a major disappointment IMHO

Wow! The couple have been happily married for many years now (at least 25 years).

I wonder how many other men and women test their prospective spouses before committing to them in Holy Matrimony (Holy Crowning? I know that I asked the Lord to help me. The sign I was looking for: that we would be drawn closer to Christ Jesus and that we would meet at a Christian event. My parents were also pleased. It was a win-win situation.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Shiny on May 10, 2012, 06:50:58 AM
Actually, height is more important to women than money, but money while a distant second is light years from whatever any woman says she wants.
Every, yes every, girl I have dated has said if I was not taller than them, they would not date me. Regardless of anything else.

Quote
Can she learn to speak proper American?
My god this is hilarious.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 10, 2012, 09:17:30 AM
Actually, height is more important to women than money, but money while a distant second is light years from whatever any woman says she wants.
Every, yes every, girl I have dated has said if I was not taller than them, they would not date me. Regardless of anything else.

I thank God for this blessing.  There will never be a woman who shoots me down because of my height.  (If she is taller than me, she's a freak of nature and would probably take what she could get!)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Aindriú on May 10, 2012, 09:43:17 AM
Actually, height is more important to women than money, but money while a distant second is light years from whatever any woman says she wants.
Every, yes every, girl I have dated has said if I was not taller than them, they would not date me. Regardless of anything else.


That's when you Friendzone THEM.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 10, 2012, 10:15:11 AM
Actually, height is more important to women than money, but money while a distant second is light years from whatever any woman says she wants.
Every, yes every, girl I have dated has said if I was not taller than them, they would not date me. Regardless of anything else.


That's when you Friendzone THEM.

Why would you friendzone them?  Just ditch them.  If you still be friends with them then you are giving them the emotional security and attention they desire while getting none of the emotional intimacy that should be your prerogative.  Ditch 'em and ignore 'em.  Move on because if a woman is not receptive, you should be putting your efforts towards the other 3.5 billion other candidates.

Remember, women are social creatures and have lots of friends.  They have two types of friends - boyfriends and girlfriends.  If you are the primary/sole recipient of their affections, you are their girlfriend.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 10, 2012, 10:20:55 AM
Actually, height is more important to women than money, but money while a distant second is light years from whatever any woman says she wants.
Every, yes every, girl I have dated has said if I was not taller than them, they would not date me. Regardless of anything else.


That's when you Friendzone THEM.

Why?

He taller than they are. It's working.

Everyone has their requirements for a mate, some are just less honest about it.

Height is just one thing women in general are very open about.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: FormerReformer on May 10, 2012, 10:30:04 AM
Actually, height is more important to women than money, but money while a distant second is light years from whatever any woman says she wants.
Every, yes every, girl I have dated has said if I was not taller than them, they would not date me. Regardless of anything else.


That's when you Friendzone THEM.

Why?

He taller than they are. It's working.

Everyone has their requirements for a mate, some are just less honest about it.

Height is just one thing women in general are very open about.



Oddly enough, I have one female friend that only dates men that are as short as or shorter than she is. And she's pretty short.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 10:39:47 AM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

I had a number of women approach me because they were looking for a father figure for their kids. And so some people do want a wife or husband who could also be a nanny/mentor figure as well.


I personally don't see anything wrong with that for if that's what they want then that's what they want.


The problem I would see with that is, marriage is a whole lot more than raising kids. Even if it was just that, it will still require that the husband and wife be in a real relationship with one another to raise the kids grow up to be decent human beings. if mom and dad, love and like one another, respect one another, share a friendship with one another, are loyal to one another, are there for one another, then kids growing up in that kind of home will grow up being decent human beings; who also other things being equal, will be more likely to have a good relationship and in turn be better parents themselves.

There is a lot wrong in what the man did, assuming ofc its all that he did, to decide on who to marry. he is setting everyone including his kids for a major disappointment IMHO
I remember when I used to take my niece out to the playground etc., and the attention I would get from women, including those who didn't have any kids.  I often wondered what they were thinking, as they never asked, and I didn't say, that she was my niece, not my daughter.  I mean, I see a woman with a kid and I think, where's Mr. Kid?

You're right, despite what the well intentioned and moral say, marriage is NOT all about raising children.  They are the corrollary to marriage, and marriage is the context in which they occur (ideally).  But they are not the purpose of marriage.

However, if you have children, you have to find someone who is right for them, because until you are married, your first loyalty is to your children.  After you are married, it is to your spouse.  Hence, choose wisely.   Looking for someone as another parent for your kids, however, is using them as surely using them for sex would be.

I don't know what they discussed with you, but, perhaps women see a man with a child and assume that he IS married, and therefore, they can simply have a conversation with him, without him hitting on them, or him thinking they are hitting on him. 

As for what women are looking for....Sheesh, you guys have got it all wrong.  If it was just good looks and money, then over half the men in society wouldn't be married, and yet,.....they are.

What we truly look for in a man is someone we can trust.  TRUST.  ....because with trust, comes integrity.  If we TRUST that he will do what is best for the relationship (and the kids, if any come of the marriage), the woman can be "free" to worry about her womanly "duties".

Sure, you all quote about the wife having to be submissive to her husband.  You know, if the man truly had integrity, I don't think the wife would have a problem, because he wouldn't ask her to do something she wasn't comfortable with, or didn't agree to.

In short, I think women look for a truly faithful Orthodox man....because if he is "truly" Orthodox, in every sense, then he would be trustworthy and would have integrity.  Believe me, looks aren't even secondary....they fall somewhere at the bottom of the list.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Ergib on May 10, 2012, 10:50:08 AM
Some of us have high expectations and little to offer….. that could be the reason.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 10:55:07 AM

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.

I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 

Western women have a real entitlement problem. He is giving good advice.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 10:56:45 AM

Really?  How so?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Punch on May 10, 2012, 11:00:01 AM
Well, that explains a lot.  I agree with you wholeheartedly.  I also agree with the "trust" issue.  The people that I trust the most are all dead.  The living?  You need to keep an eye on them.

"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

I had a number of women approach me because they were looking for a father figure for their kids. And so some people do want a wife or husband who could also be a nanny/mentor figure as well.


I personally don't see anything wrong with that for if that's what they want then that's what they want.


The problem I would see with that is, marriage is a whole lot more than raising kids. Even if it was just that, it will still require that the husband and wife be in a real relationship with one another to raise the kids grow up to be decent human beings. if mom and dad, love and like one another, respect one another, share a friendship with one another, are loyal to one another, are there for one another, then kids growing up in that kind of home will grow up being decent human beings; who also other things being equal, will be more likely to have a good relationship and in turn be better parents themselves.

There is a lot wrong in what the man did, assuming ofc its all that he did, to decide on who to marry. he is setting everyone including his kids for a major disappointment IMHO
I remember when I used to take my niece out to the playground etc., and the attention I would get from women, including those who didn't have any kids.  I often wondered what they were thinking, as they never asked, and I didn't say, that she was my niece, not my daughter.  I mean, I see a woman with a kid and I think, where's Mr. Kid?

You're right, despite what the well intentioned and moral say, marriage is NOT all about raising children.  They are the corrollary to marriage, and marriage is the context in which they occur (ideally).  But they are not the purpose of marriage.

However, if you have children, you have to find someone who is right for them, because until you are married, your first loyalty is to your children.  After you are married, it is to your spouse.  Hence, choose wisely.   Looking for someone as another parent for your kids, however, is using them as surely using them for sex would be.

I don't know what they discussed with you, but, perhaps women see a man with a child and assume that he IS married, and therefore, they can simply have a conversation with him, without him hitting on them, or him thinking they are hitting on him. 

As for what women are looking for....Sheesh, you guys have got it all wrong.  If it was just good looks and money, then over half the men in society wouldn't be married, and yet,.....they are.

What we truly look for in a man is someone we can trust.  TRUST.  ....because with trust, comes integrity.  If we TRUST that he will do what is best for the relationship (and the kids, if any come of the marriage), the woman can be "free" to worry about her womanly "duties".

Sure, you all quote about the wife having to be submissive to her husband.  You know, if the man truly had integrity, I don't think the wife would have a problem, because he wouldn't ask her to do something she wasn't comfortable with, or didn't agree to.

In short, I think women look for a truly faithful Orthodox man....because if he is "truly" Orthodox, in every sense, then he would be trustworthy and would have integrity.  Believe me, looks aren't even secondary....they fall somewhere at the bottom of the list.


Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Orthodox11 on May 10, 2012, 11:04:28 AM
I agree with you wholeheartedly.  I also agree with the "trust" issue.  The people that I trust the most are all dead. 

The Egyptians are working on solving that problem, albeit only for 6 hours.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Aindriú on May 10, 2012, 11:13:53 AM
Actually, height is more important to women than money, but money while a distant second is light years from whatever any woman says she wants.
Every, yes every, girl I have dated has said if I was not taller than them, they would not date me. Regardless of anything else.


That's when you Friendzone THEM.

Why?

He taller than they are. It's working.

Everyone has their requirements for a mate, some are just less honest about it.

Height is just one thing women in general are very open about.

I misread he *was* taller.

Even still... 'cause it's fun.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Aindriú on May 10, 2012, 11:14:57 AM

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.

I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 

Western women have a real entitlement problem. He is giving good advice.

Women? You're talking about the whole current generation.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 10, 2012, 11:59:19 AM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

I had a number of women approach me because they were looking for a father figure for their kids. And so some people do want a wife or husband who could also be a nanny/mentor figure as well.


I personally don't see anything wrong with that for if that's what they want then that's what they want.


The problem I would see with that is, marriage is a whole lot more than raising kids. Even if it was just that, it will still require that the husband and wife be in a real relationship with one another to raise the kids grow up to be decent human beings. if mom and dad, love and like one another, respect one another, share a friendship with one another, are loyal to one another, are there for one another, then kids growing up in that kind of home will grow up being decent human beings; who also other things being equal, will be more likely to have a good relationship and in turn be better parents themselves.

There is a lot wrong in what the man did, assuming ofc its all that he did, to decide on who to marry. he is setting everyone including his kids for a major disappointment IMHO
I remember when I used to take my niece out to the playground etc., and the attention I would get from women, including those who didn't have any kids.  I often wondered what they were thinking, as they never asked, and I didn't say, that she was my niece, not my daughter.  I mean, I see a woman with a kid and I think, where's Mr. Kid?

You're right, despite what the well intentioned and moral say, marriage is NOT all about raising children.  They are the corrollary to marriage, and marriage is the context in which they occur (ideally).  But they are not the purpose of marriage.

However, if you have children, you have to find someone who is right for them, because until you are married, your first loyalty is to your children.  After you are married, it is to your spouse.  Hence, choose wisely.   Looking for someone as another parent for your kids, however, is using them as surely using them for sex would be.

I don't know what they discussed with you, but, perhaps women see a man with a child and assume that he IS married, and therefore, they can simply have a conversation with him, without him hitting on them, or him thinking they are hitting on him. 

As for what women are looking for....Sheesh, you guys have got it all wrong.  If it was just good looks and money, then over half the men in society wouldn't be married, and yet,.....they are.

What we truly look for in a man is someone we can trust.  TRUST.  ....because with trust, comes integrity.  If we TRUST that he will do what is best for the relationship (and the kids, if any come of the marriage), the woman can be "free" to worry about her womanly "duties".

Sure, you all quote about the wife having to be submissive to her husband.  You know, if the man truly had integrity, I don't think the wife would have a problem, because he wouldn't ask her to do something she wasn't comfortable with, or didn't agree to.

In short, I think women look for a truly faithful Orthodox man....because if he is "truly" Orthodox, in every sense, then he would be trustworthy and would have integrity.  Believe me, looks aren't even secondary....they fall somewhere at the bottom of the list.

AMEN, sister! 
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Melodist on May 10, 2012, 12:03:31 PM
Actually, height is more important to women than money, but money while a distant second is light years from whatever any woman says she wants.

I just happen to have neither one of those characteristics.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 12:11:04 PM

Really?  How so?

I will break it down for you. Stop me when it starts to sound familiar.

In the West, women now spend their twenties and thirties pursuing careers, going their own way, and generally saying "look at me, I got moxie and I'm going places". Well, these years also happen to be when women are the most physically attractive and when they are in their best child-bearing years.

Suddenly, in the early to mid-30s, there is a mad dash to catch a man. (the fish needs a bicycle after all). Unfortunately for them, the good men are largely off the market because they have chosen the women who decided not to squander the looks and fertility of their most marriageable years on an important career in social work or human resources. Meanwhile, our modern women have said, "I will marry after I do all this important stuff, take it or leave it!" That is their right, but it is also the right of men to "leave it". There is no obligation for them to "man up" and rescue them from the consequences of their choices.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 12:13:25 PM

Really?  How so?

I will break it down for you. Stop me when it starts to sound familiar.

In the West, women now spend their twenties and thirties pursuing careers, going their own way, and generally saying "look at me, I got moxie and I'm going places". Well, these years also happen to be when women are the most physically attractive and when they are in their best child-bearing years.

Suddenly, in the early to mid-30s, there is a mad dash to catch a man. (the fish needs a bicycle after all). Unfortunately for them, the good men are largely off the market because they have chosen the women who decided not to squander the looks and fertility of their most marriageable years on an important career in social work or human resources. Meanwhile, our modern women have said, "I will marry after I do all this important stuff, take it or leave it!" That is their right, but it is also the right of men to "leave it". There is no obligation for them to "man up" and rescue them from the consequences of their choices.

reality sinks in.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 12:14:50 PM
I agree with you wholeheartedly.  I also agree with the "trust" issue.  The people that I trust the most are all dead.  

The Egyptians are working on solving that problem, albeit only for 6 hours.
A-HEM.  Muslim Egyptians.  I like my women warm and breathing.  And responsive.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Melodist on May 10, 2012, 12:17:27 PM
What we truly look for in a man is someone we can trust. 

I doubt that.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 10, 2012, 12:17:46 PM
I agree with Sauron, but also in a way with Aindriu, as I have known plenty of men who are past their prime or otherwise have little to offer who whine incessantly about how they can't find a good woman and all that, despite doing little to work on themselves. Again, we should all just follow Louis CK's advice: Take a look at what you bring to the table, be honest with yourself, and you'll have less critical things to say about a potential mate. It works for women and men equally, though neither seem to follow it very often.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 12:35:29 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

I had a number of women approach me because they were looking for a father figure for their kids. And so some people do want a wife or husband who could also be a nanny/mentor figure as well.


I personally don't see anything wrong with that for if that's what they want then that's what they want.


The problem I would see with that is, marriage is a whole lot more than raising kids. Even if it was just that, it will still require that the husband and wife be in a real relationship with one another to raise the kids grow up to be decent human beings. if mom and dad, love and like one another, respect one another, share a friendship with one another, are loyal to one another, are there for one another, then kids growing up in that kind of home will grow up being decent human beings; who also other things being equal, will be more likely to have a good relationship and in turn be better parents themselves.

There is a lot wrong in what the man did, assuming ofc its all that he did, to decide on who to marry. he is setting everyone including his kids for a major disappointment IMHO
I remember when I used to take my niece out to the playground etc., and the attention I would get from women, including those who didn't have any kids.  I often wondered what they were thinking, as they never asked, and I didn't say, that she was my niece, not my daughter.  I mean, I see a woman with a kid and I think, where's Mr. Kid?

You're right, despite what the well intentioned and moral say, marriage is NOT all about raising children.  They are the corrollary to marriage, and marriage is the context in which they occur (ideally).  But they are not the purpose of marriage.

However, if you have children, you have to find someone who is right for them, because until you are married, your first loyalty is to your children.  After you are married, it is to your spouse.  Hence, choose wisely.   Looking for someone as another parent for your kids, however, is using them as surely using them for sex would be.
I don't know what they discussed with you, but, perhaps women see a man with a child and assume that he IS married, and therefore, they can simply have a conversation with him, without him hitting on them, or him thinking they are hitting on him.
They discussed me with me. I know platonic conversation. I have plenty of them with the mothers at Church, for instance.

As for not hitting on them, see when Harry enlightened Sally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYCpHyGSNqc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuSyX2d1tbY&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL033A2FDF242E33B2 

As for what women are looking for....Sheesh, you guys have got it all wrong.  If it was just good looks and money, then over half the men in society wouldn't be married, and yet,.....they are.
there is always stupidity
(http://)
Quote
Drew Walter Peterson (born January 5, 1954) is a former Bolingbrook, Illinois, police sergeant who is suspected of killing his third and fourth wives....On February 21, 2008, Glasgow announced that a pathologist determined that Savio's death was a homicide, adding that the death had been investigated as such reopening the case following the exhumation.  Rev. Neil Schori, a pastor at Stacy Peterson's church, reported that Stacy had told him that Drew had killed Kathleen Savio and had made it look like an accident and that she was afraid of her husband.  Stacy had provided Drew's alibi for his whereabouts on the evening on which Kathleen Savio died...Peterson married Stacy Ann Cales (born January 20, 1984) on October 18, 2003. She disappeared on October 28, 2007. Stacy Peterson was officially reported missing in the early hours of October 29, 2007, after her sister, Cassandra Cales, failed to hear from her when expected...In December 2008, Drew Peterson's publicist Glenn Selig confirmed that Peterson was engaged to a 23-year-old, Christina Raines; she would be his fifth wife. On January 30, 2009, it was made public that Raines had moved out of Peterson's house. Her father, Ernie Raines, had issued an ultimatum, having her choose between him or Peterson. Raines had issued the ultimatum to his daughter because he didn't like the way Peterson began to control Christina; he was also scared that she would disappear as Stacy had. Raines moved out of Peterson's home "when she came to her senses", calling the engagement a publicity stunt designed to keep Peterson in the media spotlight. Then, in February 2009, Christina Raines and Peterson appeared on NBC's Today Show, confirming that she had moved back in with Peterson. Though his divorce from his fourth wife Stacy is not yet final, Peterson said he hopes to marry "as soon as possible". Christina Raines said her father made it clear he would not attend their wedding; she also admitted none of her friends or family support the relationship. When asked by NBC's Amy Robach if they would like to have more children, Peterson responded, "We have enough, we have 8 between us" (apparently including in the count his adult children, as there are only 6 children living in the home: the two he had with Kathleen Savio, the two he had with Stacy, and Christina's own two). Christina Raines replied, in a question-like tone, "Maybe one more?" When asked why she is with Peterson, Raines said, "I love him, he makes me laugh", and claimed to have no concern for her safety.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Peterson#2008_engagement_to_Christina_Raines

What we truly look for in a man is someone we can trust.  TRUST.  ....because with trust, comes integrity.  If we TRUST that he will do what is best for the relationship (and the kids, if any come of the marriage), the woman can be "free" to worry about her womanly "duties".
Unfortunately most men have the experience of women using them for friendship while they go after the "bad boys."  Except, of course, the bad boys. 

Some women do look for trust, but it is far from universal, and every man knows it.

Sure, you all quote about the wife having to be submissive to her husband.  You know, if the man truly had integrity, I don't think the wife would have a problem, because he wouldn't ask her to do something she wasn't comfortable with, or didn't agree to.
LOL. Unfortunately, 'tis not so.

In short, I think women look for a truly faithful Orthodox man....because if he is "truly" Orthodox, in every sense, then he would be trustworthy and would have integrity.  Believe me, looks aren't even secondary....they fall somewhere at the bottom of the list.
unfortunately I know too many counter examples to your good example Liza.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 12:40:04 PM

What we truly look for in a man is someone we can trust. 

I doubt that.

...then you don't really know women.


Really?  How so?

I will break it down for you. Stop me when it starts to sound familiar.

In the West, women now spend their twenties and thirties pursuing careers, going their own way, and generally saying "look at me, I got moxie and I'm going places". Well, these years also happen to be when women are the most physically attractive and when they are in their best child-bearing years.

Suddenly, in the early to mid-30s, there is a mad dash to catch a man. (the fish needs a bicycle after all). Unfortunately for them, the good men are largely off the market because they have chosen the women who decided not to squander the looks and fertility of their most marriageable years on an important career in social work or human resources. Meanwhile, our modern women have said, "I will marry after I do all this important stuff, take it or leave it!" That is their right, but it is also the right of men to "leave it". There is no obligation for them to "man up" and rescue them from the consequences of their choices.


There's two feet here, and let me tell you about the other shoe.

Men lately have commitment issues.  They simply want to milk the cow and not buy it. 

I'll bet you that well over half of those women you claim don't get married in their early years, don't, because the men won't commit.  They all have "boyfriends"....but, the men are the ones who don't want to get married right now.

Why marry her, if you are only going to divorce her in a few years, and then have to split your wealth, etc.  Many men (even some comments on this forum) treat marriage as a joke or a burden.  Believe me, women don't want to be a burden to any man.

...and let's be honest about men in today's society.  You blame the women for going out to work.....this is the downfall of the family.  However, that woman who works at the office all day, still is the main childcarer, food preparer and cleaner upper.  So, don't think women have it "easier" these days and are shirking their responsibilities.  On the contrary, their responsibilities have simply increased....not even mentioning elder-care.

It's a society issue, not a woman issue.....  the couple wants the bigger house, the new hybrid vehicle, etc.....all of which they cannot obtain on a single income.  They need two incomes to fulfill their "dreams".   Both parties are just as guilty....and it's their children who suffer, grow up with minimal supervision and a skewed view of what is truly important in this life.

...one more thing.  When you men are sizing up your prospective spouse....you look at her beauty....and if she catches your eye because she's either voluptuous, blonde or stick thin....you wonder what it is she "does" for a living.  Therefore, YOU expect that woman to be gainfully employed.

If she were unemployed at age 27, living with and off her parents, I'll bet most of you wouldn't give her a second thought.  Be honest with yourselves.


Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Hiwot on May 10, 2012, 12:45:31 PM
"Single fathers and those earning less than $60,000 a year were excluded from the study."

Maybe the "study" should lower "its" expectations before telling women to.  Do I hear any bids for $55,000?

Those exclusions are ridiculous, and limit a woman's opportunities.

Ever seen the movie: Yours, Mine, and Ours. Funny but a true story.

In Los Angeles, it was reported years ago in the local Catholic newspaper that a married man who had just lost his wife to cancer, but who had five children, took different single women in his parish to the same restaurant each Saturday night. He would order the same dinner for each of his children and for him and his date: Lobster. Well, he had just about run out of dates, when he met his future wife. All the other women had failed the test, but this one lady passed his scrutiny when she cracked open all the lobster legs and cut up the meat for each of his five children. When she got to her own lobster, it was then COLD. He was looking for someone who was selfless and who could be a Mother to his children. She did exactly that. At last report, they were still very happily married.

a) sounds like he was interviewing for a nanny rather than looking for a wife.
b) if he could afford 7 lobster dinners every weekend, it's not hard to see where he got the sense of entitlement to approach the search for his new nanny as an interview process.
c) if after watching him order lobster for his 5 kids and then not lifting a finger to help his *own* kids crack the shells, she still wanted him, she's welcome to him.

I had a number of women approach me because they were looking for a father figure for their kids. And so some people do want a wife or husband who could also be a nanny/mentor figure as well.


I personally don't see anything wrong with that for if that's what they want then that's what they want.


The problem I would see with that is, marriage is a whole lot more than raising kids. Even if it was just that, it will still require that the husband and wife be in a real relationship with one another to raise the kids grow up to be decent human beings. if mom and dad, love and like one another, respect one another, share a friendship with one another, are loyal to one another, are there for one another, then kids growing up in that kind of home will grow up being decent human beings; who also other things being equal, will be more likely to have a good relationship and in turn be better parents themselves.

There is a lot wrong in what the man did, assuming ofc its all that he did, to decide on who to marry. he is setting everyone including his kids for a major disappointment IMHO

Wow! The couple have been happily married for many years now (at least 25 years).

I wonder how many other men and women test their prospective spouses before committing to them in Holy Matrimony (Holy Crowning? I know that I asked the Lord to help me. The sign I was looking for: that we would be drawn closer to Christ Jesus and that we would meet at a Christian event. My parents were also pleased. It was a win-win situation.




Maria I am sure you would agree that the length of marriage does not necessarily translate into evidence of having a good marriage. People stay married for a number of reasons, not all them good. In a marriage where one is using the other, this can go on forever and still the marriage will not be a healthy one.  In this case I am happy to hear that they had a happy marriage. However if we were speaking in general what he did had many problems the way I look at it.


I have no issue with him trying to discern the right person to marry, my issue was that he was lying to himself, and others when he chose her over the others only based on what she did on that restaurant and by the lake for his kids. A human person is far more complex than that, and their relationships are far more complex than that. Surely he has other sides to him besides being a father to those kids. What does he believe in? What kind of Character does he have? What is it about her he liked besides how she treated his kids? How does he see her besides the mothering/ nurturing kind? What does he think she likes about him? What is their connection besides the kids, do they have spiritual compatibility? Do they have chemistry?  Do they have intellectual compatibility (I do not mean education although that might factor in somewhat) what kind of man is he with and without money? (Some men can handle poverty, loss of status, without losing themselves to bitterness, etc. and turn into unbearable I am a man and happy only when I got money brutes. While others turn into a sleazy, nasty fools, when they get money, status and access to unlimited choice.) So does he have a rock solid character that remains in good or bad times whatever those may be? Does she? There are many challenging factors in life, that test the fabric of relationships, and from my limited observation (being never married, and currently unattached so take my opinion with a grain of salt) only mutual love and common spiritual goal survives them.

 Kids are quite observant; they pick up tone of voice, body language, and in general what is going on in their homes. What they see affects them, some are resilient and turn out to be decent human beings even growing up in the worst possible environments, yet others are not so lucky.  IMHO The best gift two parents can give their kids is to love one another, in the wholesome definition of love and what it entails in it through all circumstances of life.


I agree with you that most of us do indeed if not test (I do not like the term and its connotation), at least try to get to know the person well enough to see if we are compatible. Marriage is certainly not a destination, it’s a journey, and only God knows the person fully even better than they know themselves. So what each person can do is, first understand oneself well enough to know one’s strength and weakness, as no one is perfect and ones aspirations( spiritual or otherwise) as well as the driving force behind those aspirations. for instance like you did, to see if they share the same spiritual goal with each other, that is a foundation for how they treat each other, how they see their life together, how much they work towards that same goal etc. It could be that you might find a spiritual person but you cannot feel the pull of attraction towards them for whatever reason, it might be that there are people who are like tape recorders who can recite the word of God without having anything intimate with it themselves, or are self-righteous and are hell to be with so there is a risk of being deceived by false spirituality too.  in the end the element of risk is always there, however after doing what we can to ensure we are not being deceived by others or ourselves, we take a calculated risk, as Christians we leave the rest in faith to God.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 12:46:13 PM
In short, I think women look for a truly faithful Orthodox man....because if he is "truly" Orthodox, in every sense, then he would be trustworthy and would have integrity.  Believe me, looks aren't even secondary....they fall somewhere at the bottom of the list.
unfortunately I know too many counter examples to your good example Liza.

....and I could easily come back with my own examples, from personal experience with men....that would counter yours.

As for the men with kids conversations....I got to be honest.  I always talk to men with kids.  To me they seem completely "off limits" and I am free to honestly have a neutral discussion with them.  It doesn't mean I am on the "prowl".    Perhaps, I should rethink this, and stay away from men with kids altogether....because perhaps they truly do misconstrue my actions....and think I DO have something in mind, when I don't.   :o

This whole men/women thing is just too much!

THANK GOD I am single and happy!!!!!  I don't need to play any of these silly games!

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 10, 2012, 01:01:42 PM
Kids are quite observant; they pick up tone of voice, body language, and in general what is going on in their homes. What they see affects them, some are resilient and turn out to be decent human beings even growing up in the worst possible environments, yet others are not so lucky.  IMHO The best gift two parents can give their kids is to love one another, in the wholesome definition of love and what it entails in it through all circumstances of life.

Well hello, truest statement in this thread. It's nice to see you. :)

Seriously excellent post, Hiwot. Posts like yours give me hope that we can rise above the acrimony that issues like this usually provoke and maybe actually learn something beyond what some flawed study tells us about women's chances to marry in a place where most of us don't even live.

I would think that everyone who is of a certain age and has been paying attention in their life can come up with examples and counterexamples to both Isa's and Liza's stances, so that's kind of a draw. It seems to me that what is most important is to have (realistic) standards for yourself that you actually stick to and understand the reasons for sticking to, as I know too many who got married to the person they did or stayed married for too long for reasons that don't really make sense in light of what they say they wanted, so it seems like many people are in at least some degree of denial when they say they just want a man who ____ or a woman who ____. Well, what is it, then? There certainly are plenty of singles out there (marriage seems to be really out of fashion for heterosexuals these days), so what's stopping you? Is it that you're lying to yourself about what you want, or that you have some degree of self-awareness and realize that you're asking for more from your mate than what you can offer in return? Because I've seen a lot of both...heck, I've perpetrated my fair share of both! :-[ That's why I can enjoy being single now...it gives me the distance from my own past stupidity to hopefully learn something from it so that if I am ever not single again I at least won't make the exact same mistakes as before. :) But anyway...an honest assessment of yourself and your situation (whether married, single, or whatever) does wonders, I think.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:06:56 PM
There's two feet here, and let me tell you about the other shoe.

Men lately have commitment issues.  They simply want to milk the cow and not buy it. 

I'll bet you that well over half of those women you claim don't get married in their early years, don't, because the men won't commit.  They all have "boyfriends"....but, the men are the ones who don't want to get married right now.

Why marry her, if you are only going to divorce her in a few years, and then have to split your wealth, etc.  Many men (even some comments on this forum) treat marriage as a joke or a burden.  Believe me, women don't want to be a burden to any man.

This statement would be comically if it weren't so ignorant. Care to explain the current system of no-fault divorce, alimony, and child support?

Quote
...and let's be honest about men in today's society.  You blame the women for going out to work.....this is the downfall of the family.  However, that woman who works at the office all day, still is the main childcarer, food preparer and cleaner upper.  So, don't think women have it "easier" these days and are shirking their responsibilities.  On the contrary, their responsibilities have simply increased....not even mentioning elder-care.

It's a society issue, not a woman issue.....  the couple wants the bigger house, the new hybrid vehicle, etc.....all of which they cannot obtain on a single income.  They need two incomes to fulfill their "dreams".   Both parties are just as guilty....and it's their children who suffer, grow up with minimal supervision and a skewed view of what is truly important in this life.

...one more thing.  When you men are sizing up your prospective spouse....you look at her beauty....and if she catches your eye because she's either voluptuous, blonde or stick thin....you wonder what it is she "does" for a living.  Therefore, YOU expect that woman to be gainfully employed.

Men do not give a fig newton about what a woman does for a living. Maybe it has happened in the history of the universe, but I have never heard of a man gushing to his friends, "and get this - she's a high-powered lawyer/corporate president/brain surgeon!"

I'll make this easy - being a less-than-attractive woman is like being a man: you're going to have to work. Attractive women don't have to.

Quote
If she were unemployed at age 27, living with and off her parents, I'll bet most of you wouldn't give her a second thought.  Be honest with yourselves.

Ok, let's be really honest with ourselves. Creeping up on 50 years and there's not been one man to fit the bill?

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Νεκτάριος on May 10, 2012, 01:07:33 PM
Liza,

I wouldn't let misogynistic ranting from certain posters bother you.  Normal men don't think like that.  

Apparently for some the definition of an obedient wife is someone who will allow you to go visit your former ...ahem "mama-san":
As it happens, my years in Japan were actually my most wayward and I spent most of my free time in the red light district of my town. The mama-san of a sunakku took quite good care of me. I still visit her with my family during my yearly trips to Japan.

As for the jailbird offering such insights into relationships here - I wonder how it is working out for him, to borrow the cliche.  

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:09:12 PM
Kids are quite observant; they pick up tone of voice, body language, and in general what is going on in their homes. What they see affects them, some are resilient and turn out to be decent human beings even growing up in the worst possible environments, yet others are not so lucky.  IMHO The best gift two parents can give their kids is to love one another, in the wholesome definition of love and what it entails in it through all circumstances of life.

People like to gush about how wondrous the minds of children are, but the fact is that kids have low future-time orientation and are gullible.

Still don't believe me? Think of every example, ever, of "kids say the darnedest things". Now imagine an adult saying those things. You would think that adult was a moron.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:10:55 PM
Liza,

I wouldn't let misogynistic ranting from certain posters bother you.  Normal men don't think like that.  

Apparently for some the definition of an obedient wife is someone who will allow you to go visit your former ...ahem "mama-san":
As it happens, my years in Japan were actually my most wayward and I spent most of my free time in the red light district of my town. The mama-san of a sunakku took quite good care of me. I still visit her with my family during my yearly trips to Japan.

Why are you racist against Japan?

Quote
As for the jailbird offering such insights into relationships here - I wonder how it is working out for him, to borrow the cliche.  

We have someone here who was in jail? Wow, that must be a really bad person. It would be pretty bad if we were required to be charitable to prisoners. Can you imagine actually having to visit one? Gross.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 10, 2012, 01:16:15 PM
Kids are quite observant; they pick up tone of voice, body language, and in general what is going on in their homes. What they see affects them, some are resilient and turn out to be decent human beings even growing up in the worst possible environments, yet others are not so lucky.  IMHO The best gift two parents can give their kids is to love one another, in the wholesome definition of love and what it entails in it through all circumstances of life.

People like to gush about how wondrous the minds of children are, but the fact is that kids have low future-time orientation and are gullible.

Still don't believe me? Think of every example, ever, of "kids say the darnedest things". Now imagine an adult saying those things. You would think that adult was a moron.

Your example is moronic, but just to play along, you don't really need to not be a moron to understand "mom and dad are fighting again, and when they aren't, they're cold and distant to each other; the atmosphere in this house is very tense and bad, and their bad marriage probably has a lot to do with that."
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ZealousZeal on May 10, 2012, 01:16:32 PM
There's two feet here, and let me tell you about the other shoe.

Men lately have commitment issues.  They simply want to milk the cow and not buy it. 

I'll bet you that well over half of those women you claim don't get married in their early years, don't, because the men won't commit.  They all have "boyfriends"....but, the men are the ones who don't want to get married right now.

Why marry her, if you are only going to divorce her in a few years, and then have to split your wealth, etc.  Many men (even some comments on this forum) treat marriage as a joke or a burden.  Believe me, women don't want to be a burden to any man.

This statement would be comically if it weren't so ignorant. Care to explain the current system of no-fault divorce, alimony, and child support?

No woman marries a man wanting to be a burden on him. Plenty of women divorce a man wanting to extract revenge on him. And child support? Really?

Quote
...and let's be honest about men in today's society.  You blame the women for going out to work.....this is the downfall of the family.  However, that woman who works at the office all day, still is the main childcarer, food preparer and cleaner upper.  So, don't think women have it "easier" these days and are shirking their responsibilities.  On the contrary, their responsibilities have simply increased....not even mentioning elder-care.

It's a society issue, not a woman issue.....  the couple wants the bigger house, the new hybrid vehicle, etc.....all of which they cannot obtain on a single income.  They need two incomes to fulfill their "dreams".   Both parties are just as guilty....and it's their children who suffer, grow up with minimal supervision and a skewed view of what is truly important in this life.

...one more thing.  When you men are sizing up your prospective spouse....you look at her beauty....and if she catches your eye because she's either voluptuous, blonde or stick thin....you wonder what it is she "does" for a living.  Therefore, YOU expect that woman to be gainfully employed.

Quote
Men do not give a fig newton about what a woman does for a living. Maybe it has happened in the history of the universe, but I have never heard of a man gushing to his friends, "and get this - she's a high-powered lawyer/corporate president/brain surgeon!"

I'll make this easy - being a less-than-attractive woman is like being a man: you're going to have to work. Attractive women don't have to.

Really? You never have? I have. Lots of times. In fact, when my dad was telling me about his fiance, he gushed about her job. He was ecstatic to find a woman with a stable career, who made good money and was self-sufficient. He said it was the first time since he had started dating when he was with a woman who didn't know when payday was for him, and didn't care.

Men who love their women tend to be proud of their accomplishments, IME.

Quote
If she were unemployed at age 27, living with and off her parents, I'll bet most of you wouldn't give her a second thought.  Be honest with yourselves.

Quote
Ok, let's be really honest with ourselves. Creeping up on 50 years and there's not been one man to fit the bill?



 ::)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 01:18:28 PM
There's two feet here, and let me tell you about the other shoe.

Men lately have commitment issues.  They simply want to milk the cow and not buy it.  

I'll bet you that well over half of those women you claim don't get married in their early years, don't, because the men won't commit.  They all have "boyfriends"....but, the men are the ones who don't want to get married right now.

Why marry her, if you are only going to divorce her in a few years, and then have to split your wealth, etc.  Many men (even some comments on this forum) treat marriage as a joke or a burden.  Believe me, women don't want to be a burden to any man.

This statement would be comically if it weren't so ignorant. Care to explain the current system of no-fault divorce, alimony, and child support?


LOL!  You crack me up!  I'm talking about marriage, not divorce.  I would hope that people get married without the anticipation of an upcoming divorce.  ...and IF unfortunately the marriage ends in such a way....then there are laws.

You are aware that not all states have alimony....and those that do....often times men are the recipients.  If the woman makes more than her ex-husband then SHE is the one who pays him alimony.


Quote
...and let's be honest about men in today's society.  You blame the women for going out to work.....this is the downfall of the family.  However, that woman who works at the office all day, still is the main childcarer, food preparer and cleaner upper.  So, don't think women have it "easier" these days and are shirking their responsibilities.  On the contrary, their responsibilities have simply increased....not even mentioning elder-care.

It's a society issue, not a woman issue.....  the couple wants the bigger house, the new hybrid vehicle, etc.....all of which they cannot obtain on a single income.  They need two incomes to fulfill their "dreams".   Both parties are just as guilty....and it's their children who suffer, grow up with minimal supervision and a skewed view of what is truly important in this life.

...one more thing.  When you men are sizing up your prospective spouse....you look at her beauty....and if she catches your eye because she's either voluptuous, blonde or stick thin....you wonder what it is she "does" for a living.  Therefore, YOU expect that woman to be gainfully employed.

Men do not give a fig newton about what a woman does for a living. Maybe it has happened in the history of the universe, but I have never heard of a man gushing to his friends, "and get this - she's a high-powered lawyer/corporate president/brain surgeon!"

I'll make this easy - being a less-than-attractive woman is like being a man: you're going to have to work. Attractive women don't have to.

So, you also buy in to the notion that in order for the woman to be good wife material she had better be knock out gorgeous.  

...and exactly "what" qualifies as attractive in a woman?


Quote
If she were unemployed at age 27, living with and off her parents, I'll bet most of you wouldn't give her a second thought.  Be honest with yourselves.

Ok, let's be really honest with ourselves. Creeping up on 50 years and there's not been one man to fit the bill?


Are you seriously asking me about my personal experiences with men?  

Creeping up on 50 is right.....and I still have "high" expectations.  :)  That's right....not a SINGLE man fit the bill.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:19:39 PM
No woman marries a man wanting to be a burden on him. Plenty of women divorce a man wanting to extract revenge on him. And child support? Really?

Yes, really. You may wish to Google "paternity fraud".

Quote
Really? You never have? I have. Lots of times. In fact, when my dad was telling me about his fiance, he gushed about her job. He was ecstatic to find a woman with a stable career, who made good money and was self-sufficient. He said it was the first time since he had started dating when he was with a woman who didn't know when payday was for him, and didn't care.

Well, I cannot comment on the company you keep. My dad never told me about his fiancee because he is still married to his first wife, my mother.

Quote
Men who love their women tend to be proud of their accomplishments, IME.

Accomplishments in important fields like human resources?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 01:23:07 PM

Sauron, I'm sorry for your obviously painful experiences with women.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ZealousZeal on May 10, 2012, 01:26:31 PM
No woman marries a man wanting to be a burden on him. Plenty of women divorce a man wanting to extract revenge on him. And child support? Really?

Yes, really. You may wish to Google "paternity fraud".

Quote
Really? You never have? I have. Lots of times. In fact, when my dad was telling me about his fiance, he gushed about her job. He was ecstatic to find a woman with a stable career, who made good money and was self-sufficient. He said it was the first time since he had started dating when he was with a woman who didn't know when payday was for him, and didn't care.

Well, I cannot comment on the company you keep. My dad never told me about his fiancee because he is still married to his first wife, my mother.

Quote
Men who love their women tend to be proud of their accomplishments, IME.

Accomplishments in important fields like human resources?


LOL. You are wildly entertaining.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:27:34 PM

Sauron, I'm sorry for your obviously painful experiences with women.


My experiences were fantastic! Why? Because of my keen understanding of evolutionary biology and sociological dynamics. I am not duped, unlike the women in the article who are clamoring for top men even though their most marriageable years are behind them, or the beta male "nice guys".

In any event, I commend you on your selection of the celibate life, in inadvertent though it may have been. Most people don't have the constitution for it.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Νεκτάριος on May 10, 2012, 01:28:30 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 01:30:39 PM

Accomplishments in important fields like human resources?


Do all the women you know work only in Human Resources?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:30:55 PM
So, you also buy in to the notion that in order for the woman to be good wife material she had better be knock out gorgeous.  

...and exactly "what" qualifies as attractive in a woman?

It is telling that you must ask this question, although deep down, I think you know all too well.

Quote
Are you seriously asking me about my personal experiences with men?  

Creeping up on 50 is right.....and I still have "high" expectations.  :)  That's right....not a SINGLE man fit the bill.

Well, at least your dry spell is not as long as Lo Pan's.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 10, 2012, 01:31:41 PM
"Nice guys" are beta males? Com'on now....I think that's giving them a little bit too much credit. Speaking as a man, I hate that crap. Ditto the "friend zone" talk from earlier in the thread. What's that? You got shot down (or more likely didn't make a move to begin with) and now you want a handy label to deflect blame for your own failure onto the woman? Boy have I got something you're going to love...!

But on to my real question: Is human resources considered to be (or actually) a female-dominated position? I am outside of the cubicle world (thanks be to God), so I do not understand the reference, though apparently it is quite funny.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:31:46 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:32:31 PM
"Nice guys" are beta males? Com'on now....I think that's giving them a little bit too much credit. Speaking as a man, I hate that crap. Ditto the "friend zone" talk from earlier in the thread. What's that? You got shot down (or more likely didn't make a move to begin with) and now you want a handy label to deflect blame for your own failure onto the woman? Boy have I got something you're going to love...!

But on to my real question: Is human resources considered to be (or actually) a female-dominated position? I am outside of the cubicle world (thanks be to God), so I do not understand the reference, though apparently it is quite funny.

HR is the one thing that women invented. It lets them get paid for being busy bodies.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: HabteSelassie on May 10, 2012, 01:33:39 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

Thank you, I was just about to comment on the glaring prevalence of both griping and chauvenism (expressed by women at that!) on this thread.  To put it simply,

(http://www.debbieschlussel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/cantwealljustgetalong.jpg)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Νεκτάριος on May 10, 2012, 01:34:44 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 01:37:57 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  
ah, the sanctimony of the Left shines through.

How's that birth rate in Ukraine again?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Population_of_Ukraine_v.2.PNG)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 10, 2012, 01:38:17 PM
"Nice guys" are beta males? Com'on now....I think that's giving them a little bit too much credit. Speaking as a man, I hate that crap. Ditto the "friend zone" talk from earlier in the thread. What's that? You got shot down (or more likely didn't make a move to begin with) and now you want a handy label to deflect blame for your own failure onto the woman? Boy have I got something you're going to love...!

But on to my real question: Is human resources considered to be (or actually) a female-dominated position? I am outside of the cubicle world (thanks be to God), so I do not understand the reference, though apparently it is quite funny.

HR is the one thing that women invented. It lets them get paid for being busy bodies.

Ah. What position should a man apply for if he wants to get paid for doing nothing? Just, y'know...out of curiosity...
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:38:45 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  

No amount of legal benefits are going to transform 37 into the same child-bearing age as 24.

By the way, care to explain your wisecrack about mama-san?

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:39:38 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  
ah, the sanctimony of the Left shines through.

How's that birth rate in Ukraine again?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Population_of_Ukraine_v.2.PNG)

Ialmisry for the win with the Excel graph!  ;D

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Papist on May 10, 2012, 01:40:36 PM

Ialmisry for the win with the Excel graph!  ;D


And to think, it wasn't even a map.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:41:17 PM
"Nice guys" are beta males? Com'on now....I think that's giving them a little bit too much credit. Speaking as a man, I hate that crap. Ditto the "friend zone" talk from earlier in the thread. What's that? You got shot down (or more likely didn't make a move to begin with) and now you want a handy label to deflect blame for your own failure onto the woman? Boy have I got something you're going to love...!

But on to my real question: Is human resources considered to be (or actually) a female-dominated position? I am outside of the cubicle world (thanks be to God), so I do not understand the reference, though apparently it is quite funny.

HR is the one thing that women invented. It lets them get paid for being busy bodies.

Ah. What position should a man apply for if he wants to get paid for doing nothing? Just, y'know...out of curiosity...

Become a farmer for a crop that the government says is at surplus. Then, get paid for not growing it.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Νεκτάριος on May 10, 2012, 01:42:35 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  
ah, the sanctimony of the Left shines through.

How's that birth rate in Ukraine again?

Ukrainian demographics are a good example of the problems caused by not having good maternity / paternity polices in place and that the issue is more complex than you are willing to admit.  But the demographics of Ukraine are the topic of another thread. 
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 01:45:05 PM
In short, I think women look for a truly faithful Orthodox man....because if he is "truly" Orthodox, in every sense, then he would be trustworthy and would have integrity.  Believe me, looks aren't even secondary....they fall somewhere at the bottom of the list.
unfortunately I know too many counter examples to your good example Liza.

....and I could easily come back with my own examples, from personal experience with men....that would counter yours.
I, however, have the statistics to back up mine.

As for the men with kids conversations....I got to be honest.  I always talk to men with kids.  To me they seem completely "off limits" and I am free to honestly have a neutral discussion with them.  It doesn't mean I am on the "prowl".    Perhaps, I should rethink this, and stay away from men with kids altogether....because perhaps they truly do misconstrue my actions....and think I DO have something in mind, when I don't.   :o

This whole men/women thing is just too much!

THANK GOD I am single and happy!!!!!  I don't need to play any of these silly games!
which again brings us back the single rate statistics.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 01:46:43 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  
ah, the sanctimony of the Left shines through.

How's that birth rate in Ukraine again?

Ukrainian demographics are a good example of the problems caused by not having good maternity / paternity polices in place and that the issue is more complex than you are willing to admit.  But the demographics of Ukraine are the topic of another thread. 
Not complex at all.  One can basically compare the maternity leave of "civilized" countries, and see that they are inversely proportion to their birth rate.  Pick your "civilized" country.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ZealousZeal on May 10, 2012, 01:47:00 PM
I don't think I will ever complain about my husband again. Sure, he may have forgotten to take the trash to the curb for the second week in a row, but at least he doesn't treat me like a retarded pet. Or a pretty baby factory.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:47:09 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  
ah, the sanctimony of the Left shines through.

How's that birth rate in Ukraine again?

Ukrainian demographics are a good example of the problems caused by not having good maternity / paternity polices in place and that the issue is more complex than you are willing to admit.  But the demographics of Ukraine are the topic of another thread. 

So maternity/paternity policies were really good until the mid-1990s and then they went to poop?

You guys should move to Zimbabwe. It has the world's highest population growth rate so they must have the world's best maternity leave laws.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:48:05 PM
I don't think I will ever complain about my husband again. Sure, he may have forgotten to take the trash to the curb for the second week in a row, but at least he doesn't treat me like a retarded pet. Or a pretty baby factory.

You go, girl! You got moxie and you're going places.

Be sure to remind all the managers that mid-year employee reviews are due by 5/15.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 01:48:54 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  

No amount of legal benefits are going to transform 37 into the same child-bearing age as 24.

By the way, care to explain your wisecrack about mama-san?



You keep referring to "child bearing" age.  Is that all that women are good for in your eyes?

What about the couple who marries young and remain childless.  What of them?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 01:52:09 PM
Kids are quite observant; they pick up tone of voice, body language, and in general what is going on in their homes. What they see affects them, some are resilient and turn out to be decent human beings even growing up in the worst possible environments, yet others are not so lucky.  IMHO The best gift two parents can give their kids is to love one another, in the wholesome definition of love and what it entails in it through all circumstances of life.
Amen!

When my oldest son wasn't even a year old, he used to smile when I kissed his mother, my then wife, good-bye.  She was always dumbfounded:"how does he know?"

When that ended, he was busy trying, at the age of 4, to set me up: his solution to life at the time was that I find a nice lady, get married, and then his mother could die.

I wouldn't think of marrying someone my sons didn't approve of.  Like you said, kids are quite observant.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ZealousZeal on May 10, 2012, 01:53:13 PM
I don't think I will ever complain about my husband again. Sure, he may have forgotten to take the trash to the curb for the second week in a row, but at least he doesn't treat me like a retarded pet. Or a pretty baby factory.

You go, girl! You got moxie and you're going places.

Be sure to remind all the managers that mid-year employee reviews are due by 5/15.



Thank God you reminded me! It's so hard to keep a thought in this silly head of mine. I'll get that e-mail right out.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 01:53:44 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  

No amount of legal benefits are going to transform 37 into the same child-bearing age as 24.

By the way, care to explain your wisecrack about mama-san?



You keep referring to "child bearing" age.  Is that all that women are good for in your eyes?

What about the couple who marries young and remain childless.  What of them?

Sauron was just referring to the biological clock which goes off and then, as he put it, someone is supposed to "man up" and save the woman from her own choices.  Nothing more.  Not at least than I can see.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Νεκτάριος on May 10, 2012, 01:55:59 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  

No amount of legal benefits are going to transform 37 into the same child-bearing age as 24.

By the way, care to explain your wisecrack about mama-san?



You keep referring to "child bearing" age.  Is that all that women are good for in your eyes?

What about the couple who marries young and remain childless.  What of them?


And what about adopting?  There are tons of overflowing orphanages here  :'(
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 01:56:16 PM
You keep referring to "child bearing" age.  Is that all that women are good for in your eyes?

No, but it is an important factor. Believe it or not, most people marry, in part, for procreation. As a consequence, most men wish for their wives to be fertile.

Quote
What about the couple who marries young and remain childless.  What of them?


What about them?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 01:57:18 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  

No amount of legal benefits are going to transform 37 into the same child-bearing age as 24.

By the way, care to explain your wisecrack about mama-san?



You keep referring to "child bearing" age.  Is that all that women are good for in your eyes?

What about the couple who marries young and remain childless.  What of them?

Sauron was just referring to the biological clock which goes off and then, as he put it, someone is supposed to "man up" and save the woman from her own choices.  Nothing more.  Not at least than I can see.


So a woman's life has been wasted if she didn't have a baby, is that it?

....and now that her biological clock has run out, she needs to be rescued.

Rescued from what?

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 01:59:11 PM
You keep referring to "child bearing" age.  Is that all that women are good for in your eyes?

No, but it is an important factor. Believe it or not, most people marry, in part, for procreation. As a consequence, most men wish for their wives to be fertile.


Ok...you are now talking in circles.

So, if the woman is no longer of child bearing age....why do you worry and state that men have to come to her rescue?



Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 01:59:50 PM
I don't think I will ever complain about my husband again. Sure, he may have forgotten to take the trash to the curb for the second week in a row, but at least he doesn't treat me like a retarded pet. Or a pretty baby factory.

You go, girl! You got moxie and you're going places.

Be sure to remind all the managers that mid-year employee reviews are due by 5/15.
LOL.  That would have been my 18th anniversary.

My ex complained how I remembered all our anniversaries with flowers, and other such cruelties.  Her next husband (whom she married twice) married her for a green card, after he had been arrested for beating her (including biting her face).  Her friends laughed when I wondered once if he brought her flowers on her anniversary at work like I did.  It turns out, he didn't even bring her flowers on their "wedding."

so I guess there is someone for everyone.  So take heart.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 02:00:00 PM
So a woman's life has been wasted if she didn't have a baby, is that it?

....and now that her biological clock has run out, she needs to be rescued.

Rescued from what?


No one said anything of the sort. I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear in light of your situation. There is no need for ὑστερικός. (good pun by me)

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 02:00:49 PM
Ok...you are now talking in circles.

So, if the woman is no longer of child bearing age....why do you worry and state that men have to come to her rescue?

No, you just aren't paying attention. Barren women don't have biological clocks.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:01:26 PM
You keep referring to "child bearing" age.  Is that all that women are good for in your eyes?

No, but it is an important factor. Believe it or not, most people marry, in part, for procreation. As a consequence, most men wish for their wives to be fertile.


Ok...you are now talking in circles.

So, if the woman is no longer of child bearing age....why do you worry and state that men have to come to her rescue?
because said women act as if they have to.  Of course, now they are just going to the sperm bank instead of treating a mate as one.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 02:03:13 PM
You keep referring to "child bearing" age.  Is that all that women are good for in your eyes?

No, but it is an important factor. Believe it or not, most people marry, in part, for procreation. As a consequence, most men wish for their wives to be fertile.


Ok...you are now talking in circles.

So, if the woman is no longer of child bearing age....why do you worry and state that men have to come to her rescue?
because said women act as if they have to.  Of course, now they are just going to the sperm bank instead of treating a mate as one.

Sperm banks are proof that liberals accept the truth that intelligence and other behavioral traits are genetic. They always want the seed from Ivy League, Mensa member, high-powered executives. No one wants the stuff from a high-school dropout career felon.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 10, 2012, 02:04:51 PM
Damn, Isa, after reading your story, even I want to fix you up with somebody nice! What a ridiculous, sad, and depressing situation. It is a shame how the good go unappreciated. At least you are raising your kids right.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 02:09:47 PM
So a woman's life has been wasted if she didn't have a baby, is that it?

....and now that her biological clock has run out, she needs to be rescued.

Rescued from what?


No one said anything of the sort. I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear in light of your situation. There is no need for ὑστερικός. (good pun by me)



My "situation"?  Seriously?  I think you are pushing the boundaries of propriety here.

I am not in a "situation".

I think you need to step back and take a look how you are acting.

ὑστερικός  really?  You are so rude....no wonder you seem to have issues with the women.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Papist on May 10, 2012, 02:10:40 PM
How long until this thread gets locked?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:10:53 PM

What we truly look for in a man is someone we can trust. 

I doubt that.

...then you don't really know women.


Really?  How so?

I will break it down for you. Stop me when it starts to sound familiar.

In the West, women now spend their twenties and thirties pursuing careers, going their own way, and generally saying "look at me, I got moxie and I'm going places". Well, these years also happen to be when women are the most physically attractive and when they are in their best child-bearing years.

Suddenly, in the early to mid-30s, there is a mad dash to catch a man. (the fish needs a bicycle after all). Unfortunately for them, the good men are largely off the market because they have chosen the women who decided not to squander the looks and fertility of their most marriageable years on an important career in social work or human resources. Meanwhile, our modern women have said, "I will marry after I do all this important stuff, take it or leave it!" That is their right, but it is also the right of men to "leave it". There is no obligation for them to "man up" and rescue them from the consequences of their choices.


There's two feet here, and let me tell you about the other shoe.

Men lately have commitment issues.  They simply want to milk the cow and not buy it. 

I'll bet you that well over half of those women you claim don't get married in their early years, don't, because the men won't commit.  They all have "boyfriends"....but, the men are the ones who don't want to get married right now.

Why marry her, if you are only going to divorce her in a few years, and then have to split your wealth, etc.  Many men (even some comments on this forum) treat marriage as a joke or a burden.  Believe me, women don't want to be a burden to any man.
you're so innocent to the point of naïveté.  Most of us believe experience.

On a related note, I remember the O[prah] in Denmark (a civilized country I suspect by Nektarios' standards) when her new found friends were talking about all the government benefits the country provided, when she exclaimed "so you don't need a man!"

...and let's be honest about men in today's society.  You blame the women for going out to work.....this is the downfall of the family.  However, that woman who works at the office all day, still is the main childcarer, food preparer and cleaner upper.  So, don't think women have it "easier" these days and are shirking their responsibilities.  On the contrary, their responsibilities have simply increased....not even mentioning elder-care.

It's a society issue, not a woman issue.....  the couple wants the bigger house, the new hybrid vehicle, etc.....all of which they cannot obtain on a single income.  They need two incomes to fulfill their "dreams".   Both parties are just as guilty....and it's their children who suffer, grow up with minimal supervision and a skewed view of what is truly important in this life.
ever read "the Feminine Mystique"?

...one more thing.  When you men are sizing up your prospective spouse....you look at her beauty....and if she catches your eye because she's either voluptuous, blonde or stick thin....you wonder what it is she "does" for a living.  Therefore, YOU expect that woman to be gainfully employed.

If she were unemployed at age 27, living with and off her parents, I'll bet most of you wouldn't give her a second thought.  Be honest with yourselves.
Before liberation in the '60s by "That GIRL" (Marlo Thomas specifically ended the serious before her character married the boyfriend), I suspect most women were "living with and off her parents" and unemployed. Let's be honest.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 02:13:46 PM

Don't know what you are referring to.

My life is too busy to spend time reading silly books and certainly the TV is hardly ever on....so your inference is lost on me.

Sorry.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:23:55 PM
Damn, Isa, after reading your story, even I want to fix you up with somebody nice! What a ridiculous, sad, and depressing situation. It is a shame how the good go unappreciated. At least you are raising your kids right.
thanks, please pray for them.  My older one is scaring me because he has become terrified of marriage, given what he has seen of it up front, although, if I might say so myself, he would be quite a catch.  He has a genetic kidney disease with deafness, which will kill him one day if it isn't watched (something his mother is in denial about), but if he has only sons, they will neither be affected by it nor carry it, and even without the hearing aid he is quite functional, extremely bright in fact (he is getting "A" in Mandarin Chinese, his fifth language, and was in a national competition for chemistry last year).  Quite consciously and sensitive, but too serious:he had to grow up too fast and too early.  Once when he was 7 or 8, he asked me if God knows everything.  When I said yes, he asked me if God only wants good things for us.  When I said yes, he asked "well, if God knows everything and He only wants good things for you, why did He make you marry mama?"  "If I didn't marry mama, would there be a Mikhail and Stephan [their names]?" I asked. "No," he said.  "Then you have your answer" I replied.

I use to say I could drop dead happy if the younger one made it to 18 relatively healthy and sane.  Now I think I'll have to wait until the older one is married off.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 10, 2012, 02:27:42 PM

Men lately have commitment issues.  They simply want to milk the cow and not buy it. 

I'll bet you that well over half of those women you claim don't get married in their early years, don't, because the men won't commit.  They all have "boyfriends"....but, the men are the ones who don't want to get married right now.

It takes two to tango.  Most men I know do have commitment issues.  One friend referred to his wedding day as the most nervous he'd been since his first roadside bomb in Iraq.  Another is waiting to get married (despite her pressure) so he can get the house bought before they get married, hoping that if for some reason she divorces him he won't loose his grandfather's house to her.  Another has been with some very shady women...but hasn't let them stop him from making sure "their child-bearing years don't get away from them"...3 times.  So yes, I wholeheartedly agree with your first sentence.

The problem is, that men are not entirely at fault for this.  (I say "entirely" because they do bear some guilt, just not all of it.)  For starts, no s**t men want to get the milk for free!   :D  Path of least resistance, yo!  If there were not hoards of young "womyn" wearing "free milk" t-shirts they'd probably have to go the traditional route or stick to prostitutes if they desired not to be calcium deficient.

Also, who's choice was it to go out with a man for all those years who refused to commit?  I will spare you my usual shameless plug about being one of the "nice guys" who would love to commit to a good Christian woman, and I really have no expectations of sympathy.  But don't ask me to give any to women who make poor mate-choices and are burned by the consequences at a later point. 

(Actually, I have a friend who routinely makes poor relationship choices and I do have deep sympathy for her, but I try not to let that spoil my bitterness... ;))

Quote
Why marry her, if you are only going to divorce her in a few years, and then have to split your wealth, etc.  Many men (even some comments on this forum) treat marriage as a joke or a burden.  Believe me, women don't want to be a burden to any man.

With no fault divorce men have to face a double whammy, both emotionally and legally.  I think both men and women need to be careful when dealing with marriage these days.  There are too many things that can go wrong.

Personally, I WILL NOT marry a non-Christian.  I would and have dated them, but that's one of the factors that ended my longest relationship.  If she would not convert, I could not marry her.  I have no respect for legal marriages.  They are just a lop-sided contract to me with no protection for me if it is reneged upon.  I do take the sacrament of marriage very seriously and would love to be married someday.  But it will be in a Church.  Period.

Quote
...and let's be honest about men in today's society.  You blame the women for going out to work.....this is the downfall of the family.  However, that woman who works at the office all day, still is the main childcarer, food preparer and cleaner upper.  So, don't think women have it "easier" these days and are shirking their responsibilities.  On the contrary, their responsibilities have simply increased....not even mentioning elder-care.

I have no argument with you here.  Any woman who is married to me will not be the only one doing the housework / child care.  That's one thing that my mother has rammed through my thick skull.  (Though, I do think that if one party spends less hours out of the house at work they should get a head start on the house work in their free time, but I believe this should go for whichever party it is, regardless of anatomical configuration!)

Quote
It's a society issue, not a woman issue.....  the couple wants the bigger house, the new hybrid vehicle, etc.....all of which they cannot obtain on a single income.  They need two incomes to fulfill their "dreams".   Both parties are just as guilty....and it's their children who suffer, grow up with minimal supervision and a skewed view of what is truly important in this life.

Once again, no argument.

Quote
...one more thing.  When you men are sizing up your prospective spouse....you look at her beauty....and if she catches your eye because she's either voluptuous, blonde or stick thin....you wonder what it is she "does" for a living.  Therefore, YOU expect that woman to be gainfully employed.

I'd prefer dark haired and a little bit of meat...but that's just my thing...

Quote
If she were unemployed at age 27, living with and off her parents, I'll bet most of you wouldn't give her a second thought.  Be honest with yourselves.


I'd probably giver her a second thought and a third thought...but I concede your point!   :D
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:29:46 PM
Kids are quite observant; they pick up tone of voice, body language, and in general what is going on in their homes. What they see affects them, some are resilient and turn out to be decent human beings even growing up in the worst possible environments, yet others are not so lucky.  IMHO The best gift two parents can give their kids is to love one another, in the wholesome definition of love and what it entails in it through all circumstances of life.

People like to gush about how wondrous the minds of children are, but the fact is that kids have low future-time orientation and are gullible.

Still don't believe me? Think of every example, ever, of "kids say the darnedest things". Now imagine an adult saying those things. You would think that adult was a moron.


I have to disagree here, at least on the point at hand.  The Romanians say "Only the insane, the drunk, and children tell the truth."
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 10, 2012, 02:31:24 PM
I don't think I will ever complain about my husband again. Sure, he may have forgotten to take the trash to the curb for the second week in a row, but at least he doesn't treat me like a retarded pet. Or a pretty baby factory.

You go, girl! You got moxie and you're going places.

Be sure to remind all the managers that mid-year employee reviews are due by 5/15.



Thank God you reminded me! It's so hard to keep a thought in this silly head of mine. I'll get that e-mail right out.

It's all right. You just need more coffee. 

Oh, just a reminder, don't forget the employee reviews!

 ;)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:31:37 PM
Liza,

I wouldn't let misogynistic ranting from certain posters bother you.  Normal men don't think like that.  

Apparently for some the definition of an obedient wife is someone who will allow you to go visit your former ...ahem "mama-san":
As it happens, my years in Japan were actually my most wayward and I spent most of my free time in the red light district of my town. The mama-san of a sunakku took quite good care of me. I still visit her with my family during my yearly trips to Japan.

Why are you racist against Japan?

Quote
As for the jailbird offering such insights into relationships here - I wonder how it is working out for him, to borrow the cliche.  

We have someone here who was in jail? Wow, that must be a really bad person. It would be pretty bad if we were required to be charitable to prisoners. Can you imagine actually having to visit one? Gross.
It was an ad hominem directed at me I think. Nektarios, you will correct me if I am wrong.  It would be a first.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ZealousZeal on May 10, 2012, 02:33:16 PM
I don't think I will ever complain about my husband again. Sure, he may have forgotten to take the trash to the curb for the second week in a row, but at least he doesn't treat me like a retarded pet. Or a pretty baby factory.

You go, girl! You got moxie and you're going places.

Be sure to remind all the managers that mid-year employee reviews are due by 5/15.



Thank God you reminded me! It's so hard to keep a thought in this silly head of mine. I'll get that e-mail right out.

It's all right. You just need more coffee. 

Oh, just a reminder, don't forget the employee reviews!

 ;)

You are such a peach!  :D I'm on cup number 3.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 10, 2012, 02:37:07 PM
I don't think I will ever complain about my husband again. Sure, he may have forgotten to take the trash to the curb for the second week in a row, but at least he doesn't treat me like a retarded pet. Or a pretty baby factory.

You go, girl! You got moxie and you're going places.

Be sure to remind all the managers that mid-year employee reviews are due by 5/15.



Thank God you reminded me! It's so hard to keep a thought in this silly head of mine. I'll get that e-mail right out.

It's all right. You just need more coffee.  

Oh, just a reminder, don't forget the employee reviews!

 ;)

You are such a peach!  :D I'm on cup number 3.

Lucky.  We ran out after cup #1.5 and I didn't know if anyone would drink any of it if I made more...so I am on to tea now!
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:39:04 PM
There's two feet here, and let me tell you about the other shoe.

Men lately have commitment issues.  They simply want to milk the cow and not buy it.  

I'll bet you that well over half of those women you claim don't get married in their early years, don't, because the men won't commit.  They all have "boyfriends"....but, the men are the ones who don't want to get married right now.

Why marry her, if you are only going to divorce her in a few years, and then have to split your wealth, etc.  Many men (even some comments on this forum) treat marriage as a joke or a burden.  Believe me, women don't want to be a burden to any man.

This statement would be comically if it weren't so ignorant. Care to explain the current system of no-fault divorce, alimony, and child support?


LOL!  You crack me up!  I'm talking about marriage, not divorce.  I would hope that people get married without the anticipation of an upcoming divorce.  ...and IF unfortunately the marriage ends in such a way....then there are laws.

You are aware that not all states have alimony....and those that do....often times men are the recipients.  If the woman makes more than her ex-husband then SHE is the one who pays him alimony.
LOL.  No, for all intents and purposes, doesn't happen, despite what the law says.

The reality is that since no fault has become the law of the land, and divorce on demand became the rule, no one is really married anymore (IIRC a State's attorney from TX wrote a book on that by that title).  Long before the gay lobby, the divorce court redefined marriage.  It used to be that prenuptial agreements were void, because they undermined marriage by people getting married with the anticipation of an upcoming divorce.  That they are upheld (for women, at least) shows that yes, when you are talking about marriage today you are talking about divorce.  The "family" courts have made sure of that.

Btw, IIRC Sauron is a lawyer.

Yes, there are law, and no, they are not gender neutral, and Lord help you if you don't fit the cookie cutter.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:41:18 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  
Why?  Because, according to the Mayans, the world is going to end and so we don't have to worry about the next generation?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:45:49 PM
"Nice guys" are beta males? Com'on now....I think that's giving them a little bit too much credit. Speaking as a man, I hate that crap. Ditto the "friend zone" talk from earlier in the thread. What's that? You got shot down (or more likely didn't make a move to begin with) and now you want a handy label to deflect blame for your own failure onto the woman? Boy have I got something you're going to love...!

But on to my real question: Is human resources considered to be (or actually) a female-dominated position? I am outside of the cubicle world (thanks be to God), so I do not understand the reference, though apparently it is quite funny.

HR is the one thing that women invented. It lets them get paid for being busy bodies.


Human resources always sounded like a organ bank to me.  Yesterday on "the Office" the one guy (I never watch it that much, and never pay too much attention to it when I do) the one guy was asking the HR guy about details of intimate female anatomy.

I think the community organizing soaks up most busy bodies.   A logo, a fax and you're an authority.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:50:08 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  
ah, the sanctimony of the Left shines through.

How's that birth rate in Ukraine again?

Ukrainian demographics are a good example of the problems caused by not having good maternity / paternity polices in place and that the issue is more complex than you are willing to admit.  But the demographics of Ukraine are the topic of another thread. 

So maternity/paternity policies were really good until the mid-1990s and then they went to poop?

You guys should move to Zimbabwe. It has the world's highest population growth rate so they must have the world's best maternity leave laws.


LOL. Can't argue with logic.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: HabteSelassie on May 10, 2012, 02:52:56 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Before liberation in the '60s by "That GIRL" (Marlo Thomas specifically ended the serious before her character married the boyfriend), I suspect most women were "living with and off her parents" and unemployed. Let's be honest.

Plain and simple, it is a myth of 1940s-1950s America that women's traditional role is in the home.  Women have been in the home, true, but until the Industrial Revolution, EVERYONE'S PLACE was in the home.  So give or take a hundred years of readjustment and what do find? Both genders struggling on the post-modern world to make sense of what exactly has happened to approximately 250,000 years of human history and culture seemingly abandoned to the pace of progress.  Further, even in the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution through out about until the 1950s, both women and even children worked outside the home. Before that, many women and girls worked in OTHER people's homes, albeit outside of their own.  So its just a myth of the American dream that women traditionally should be at home.  Historically, its never been the case, and probably never will be.  Women consist of sometimes more than half of the global population, and generally speaking, around the world and in the States they do MOST of the work, including the heavy lifting ;)


I don't think I will ever complain about my husband again. Sure, he may have forgotten to take the trash to the curb for the second week in a row, but at least he doesn't treat me like a retarded pet. Or a pretty baby factory.

;)

I can only hope (and assume) that some of the more "foot-in-mouth" comments on this thread (and Lord have His Mercy on this forum!) are NOT married.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:53:22 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.

In civilized countries there is ample maternity leave and related benefits so that the two are no mutually exclusive.  

No amount of legal benefits are going to transform 37 into the same child-bearing age as 24.

By the way, care to explain your wisecrack about mama-san?



You keep referring to "child bearing" age.  Is that all that women are good for in your eyes?

What about the couple who marries young and remain childless.  What of them?

Sauron was just referring to the biological clock which goes off and then, as he put it, someone is supposed to "man up" and save the woman from her own choices.  Nothing more.  Not at least than I can see.


So a woman's life has been wasted if she didn't have a baby, is that it?

....and now that her biological clock has run out, she needs to be rescued.

Rescued from what?


Ask them.  They are the ones panicking.  Having had a lot of offers to give a donation (and I don't mean money), it's not a mystery for me.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 02:57:20 PM
You keep referring to "child bearing" age.  Is that all that women are good for in your eyes?

No, but it is an important factor. Believe it or not, most people marry, in part, for procreation. As a consequence, most men wish for their wives to be fertile.


Ok...you are now talking in circles.

So, if the woman is no longer of child bearing age....why do you worry and state that men have to come to her rescue?
because said women act as if they have to.  Of course, now they are just going to the sperm bank instead of treating a mate as one.

Sperm banks are proof that liberals accept the truth that intelligence and other behavioral traits are genetic. They always want the seed from Ivy League, Mensa member, high-powered executives. No one wants the stuff from a high-school dropout career felon.


Or looks like Juan Pablo di Pace
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjEzMTY1MjQ2Nl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzU0NjQ2NA@@._V1._SX214_CR0,0,214,314_.jpg)
In fact, many wouldn't mind collecting it in person. :o.  Hell, almost tempting for me. LOL.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: podkarpatska on May 10, 2012, 04:06:50 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Before liberation in the '60s by "That GIRL" (Marlo Thomas specifically ended the serious before her character married the boyfriend), I suspect most women were "living with and off her parents" and unemployed. Let's be honest.

Plain and simple, it is a myth of 1940s-1950s America that women's traditional role is in the home.  Women have been in the home, true, but until the Industrial Revolution, EVERYONE'S PLACE was in the home.  So give or take a hundred years of readjustment and what do find? Both genders struggling on the post-modern world to make sense of what exactly has happened to approximately 250,000 years of human history and culture seemingly abandoned to the pace of progress.  Further, even in the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution through out about until the 1950s, both women and even children worked outside the home. Before that, many women and girls worked in OTHER people's homes, albeit outside of their own.  So its just a myth of the American dream that women traditionally should be at home.  Historically, its never been the case, and probably never will be.  Women consist of sometimes more than half of the global population, and generally speaking, around the world and in the States they do MOST of the work, including the heavy lifting ;)


I don't think I will ever complain about my husband again. Sure, he may have forgotten to take the trash to the curb for the second week in a row, but at least he doesn't treat me like a retarded pet. Or a pretty baby factory.

;)

I can only hope (and assume) that some of the more "foot-in-mouth" comments on this thread (and Lord have His Mercy on this forum!) are NOT married.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


The Orthodox Research Institute is not, as those of you who follow my posts are no doubt not surprised, one of my favorite reference points in relation to Orthodox topics. That being said, in thinking about this thread, I was searching the internet and I came across a pastoral letter regarding the Role of Women written by Metropolitan Seraphim of Johannesburg and Pretoria of the Patriarchate of Alexandria. For a single man and a monk, he seems to possess far better insight regarding women than has been evidenced by the rather snarky comments which have been posted on this thread in the last two days.

His words are worth quoting verbatim here (I apologize to the mods for the long quote, but I didn't want to take His Eminence out of context.)


".....the advent of Christianity proved to be a revolution for the cause and understanding of women as intelligent, courageous and virtuous- in effect Christianity empowered women in an unprecedented manner. Within the pages of the Gospels the female followers of Jesus are often described as courageous while the male disciples are depicted as cowardly. For instance while St. Peter denied Christ out of fear, while all other male disciples except St. John field during the crucifixion several women stood at the feet of the cross without fear. Likewise when men were locked indoors for fear of the Jews the women went out to anoint the body of Jesus.
"But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene." (St. John 19:28). On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews Jesus came and stood behind them … (St. John 20:19). Again within the pages of the Gospel, women are considered as honest. Trustworthy and reliable faithful witnesses. Indeed the first persons to receive the news of the Resurrection of Christ and commissioned to relay to men the most important message in the annuals of history-were women (St. Mark 16). And he said to them, "Do not be amazed; you seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here; see the place where they laid him. But go tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Gaulle; there you will see him; as he told you" … (St. Mark 16:6-7). Within Gospels women are also described as intelligent and possessing acute intellectual curiosity. Thus when the Archangels announce the future birth of the Messiah, within the lucan account, she naturally engages him in conversation and seeks to understand the precise nature of this announcement.
However when St. Paul announces in his letter to the Galatians, that there is neither male or female but both are considered equal in Christ's redemptive work, this represents from a historical perspective the most radical statement made on the status of women up to that point in the history of ideas. The message of Christianity claims that both men and women are empowered; saved and sanctified by Christ in an equal manner. In the final analysis Christianity claims both man and women equally receive the gifts and virtues bestowed by the Holy Spirit. Gender does not disqualify a Christian from the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Today women make enormous and significant contributions to human societies. Their nurturing rule role within the family as grandmothers, wives, mothers and daughters provide a stabilizing influence upon the structure of the family. Their contribution to social activities is also most important. Women are now familiar and indispensable aspect of the work force. Indeed as Christians, women provide the church irreplaceable assistance." http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/misc/seraphim_role_of_women.htm
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 04:09:25 PM
My "situation"?  Seriously?  I think you are pushing the boundaries of propriety here.

I am not in a "situation".

I think you need to step back and take a look how you are acting.

ὑστερικός  really?  You are so rude....no wonder you seem to have issues with the women.

Everyone is in a situation. It is not an offensive word, but you may prefer to say "set of circumstances", "state of affairs", or "where I am in my life". There is nothing improper in the slightest about it.

I have only had issue with one woman: my son and my daughter.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 04:12:22 PM

Don't know what you are referring to.

My life is too busy to spend time reading silly books and certainly the TV is hardly ever on....so your inference is lost on me.

Sorry.

Please drop the other shoe and let us know what keeps you so busy. (besides the serious business of OC.net, of course)

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: BoredMeeting on May 10, 2012, 04:19:17 PM
If there were not hoards of young "womyn" wearing "free milk" t-shirts they'd probably have to go the traditional route or stick to prostitutes if they desired not to be calcium deficient.

That one line almost qualifies for a POTM nomination.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Melodist on May 10, 2012, 04:25:15 PM
What we truly look for in a man is someone we can trust. 
I doubt that.
...then you don't really know women.

I just know that things like "honesty" and "integrity" are among things that a lot of women claim to want but avoid when they come into contact with. As far as "trust", a lot of women will "trust" whoever tells them whatever it is they want to hear.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 10, 2012, 04:25:40 PM
This thread grows more disgusting.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 04:28:08 PM

Don't know what you are referring to.

My life is too busy to spend time reading silly books and certainly the TV is hardly ever on....so your inference is lost on me.

Sorry.

Please drop the other shoe and let us know what keeps you so busy. (besides the serious business of OC.net, of course)



If I did that I would be bragging....and it would tarnish my sense of humility and humbleness, in the blessings that God has bestowed upon me.

...and none of it has anything to do with Human Resources.

:)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Melodist on May 10, 2012, 04:29:02 PM
If she were unemployed at age 27 24, living with and off her parents, I'll bet most of you wouldn't give her a second thought.  Be honest with yourselves.

Description of the last girl I went on a date with.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: podkarpatska on May 10, 2012, 04:37:23 PM
When one is disappointed, or even heart-broken, in the pursuit of romance and love, one often needs to look into a mirror rather than casting the blame on an entire gender - that goes for either sex I might add.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 10, 2012, 04:41:24 PM
This thread grows more disgusting.

In general or in particular?  I think some of the "misogynistic" comments that are made in general, not specifically directed at someone (namely at Liza) are pretty accurate.  There is a lot of BS getting thrown about and anyone who dares question the societal norm is shouted down by a bunch of womyn and boys with Stockholm syndrome.

The misogynistic, anti-Liza commentary is pretty hard to understand.  Even when I disagree with her, I can still read what she writes, take it as optimistically as possible, and probably have an accurate understanding of what she meant.  I think the vitriol aimed at her is unwarranted.

Hopefully when the Mods come rolling in they are able to separate the rotten commentary from the well intended stuff.  I think that since marriage is a Sacrament of the Church it should be discussed, even (no, especially) when society tries to make a muck of it.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Melodist on May 10, 2012, 04:43:00 PM
one often needs to look into a mirror

I'm not claiming to be without my own personal faults.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 04:49:37 PM

The misogynistic, anti-Liza commentary is pretty hard to understand.  Even when I disagree with her, I can still read what she writes, take it as optimistically as possible, and probably have an accurate understanding of what she meant.  I think the vitriol aimed at her is unwarranted.


What?!?  You have disagreed with me?  How can that be possible?  :D

I love you all, and wish you find the spouse that best fits your "standards". 

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Νεκτάριος on May 10, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
This thread grows more disgusting.
There is a lot of BS getting thrown about and anyone who dares question the societal norm is shouted down by a bunch of womyn and boys with Stockholm syndrome.

I don't think it is radical feminism to see women as more than mere sperm depositories that will bear children for me.  

Interesting that the "boys with Stockholm syndrome" are mostly happily married.  On the other side there is a jailbird that constantly rants about his ex-wife, a person who takes his family to visit his mama-san and a bunch of complaining single guys.  
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 04:55:37 PM
This thread grows more disgusting.
There is a lot of BS getting thrown about and anyone who dares question the societal norm is shouted down by a bunch of womyn and boys with Stockholm syndrome.

I don't think it is radical feminism to see women as more than mere sperm depositories that will bear children for me.  

Interesting that the "boys with Stockholm syndrome" are mostly happily married.  On the other side there is a jailbird that constantly rants about his ex-wife, a person who takes his family to visit his mama-san and a bunch of complaining single guys.  

I don't understand the mama-san cracks. What do you think that word even means?

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 10, 2012, 05:00:17 PM

The misogynistic, anti-Liza commentary is pretty hard to understand.  Even when I disagree with her, I can still read what she writes, take it as optimistically as possible, and probably have an accurate understanding of what she meant.  I think the vitriol aimed at her is unwarranted.


What?!?  You have disagreed with me?  How can that be possible?  :D

I love you all, and wish you find the spouse that best fits your "standards". 



My "standards" are VERY negotiable, hopefully you won't have to wish too hard!   ;)

Thank you.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 10, 2012, 05:04:40 PM
This thread grows more disgusting.
There is a lot of BS getting thrown about and anyone who dares question the societal norm is shouted down by a bunch of womyn and boys with Stockholm syndrome.

I don't think it is radical feminism to see women as more than mere sperm depositories that will bear children for me.  

Interesting that the "boys with Stockholm syndrome" are mostly happily married.  On the other side there is a jailbird that constantly rants about his ex-wife, a person who takes his family to visit his mama-san and a bunch of complaining single guys.  

I don't understand the mama-san cracks. What do you think that word even means?


From reading what you wrote, I assume that you are using the Japanese rendition of mama-san.

I think Nektarios is using the Vietnam War era definition.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: podkarpatska on May 10, 2012, 05:08:39 PM
This thread grows more disgusting.
There is a lot of BS getting thrown about and anyone who dares question the societal norm is shouted down by a bunch of womyn and boys with Stockholm syndrome.

I don't think it is radical feminism to see women as more than mere sperm depositories that will bear children for me.  

Interesting that the "boys with Stockholm syndrome" are mostly happily married.  On the other side there is a jailbird that constantly rants about his ex-wife, a person who takes his family to visit his mama-san and a bunch of complaining single guys.  

For all of the idealizing that one hears about the 'good old days', those of us old enough to remember those days know that not all was Ozzie and Harriet. In the old mine towns of north east PA, for example, many women worked in the clothing mills and other piece work factories that replaced the mines while their 'man-folk' were not out hunting or gathering, but rather hanging out at the local saloon to bemoan the state of the world only to come home to take out their anger at their children and wives. I remember when we lived in one of those towns where my father was the priest. Domestic violence and substance abuse is nothing new under the sun. I also remember how in greater Binghamton at least, most of my friend's mothers worked after the war and into their retirement - either at Endicott Johnson Shoe works, IBM or other factories.

Anecdotally, I will make one comment. When I was growing up in the 1960's, we had two hundred children in our parish Sunday School. My peer group was involved in the church youth groups, youth choir, sports programs etc... Most of my group married young ladies from our parish or girls we met at church camp, conventions (like FROC or GOYA). Thirty or so years later, the percentage of those marriages still intact is well over eighty percent. There is something to be said about seeking out a life-mate from within your own sphere of interests. I know that the world is different today and parishes are smaller etc...but the reality is that those marriages which survived the turmoil of our modern era generally consisted of a man and a woman who respected each other, treated each other with kindness and love and who held shared values.

If this is representative of 'Stockholm syndrome' or being a 'beta male', well, maybe you should buy a ticket to Sweden. Relationships are not all about hormones.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ZealousZeal on May 10, 2012, 05:14:03 PM
This thread grows more disgusting.
There is a lot of BS getting thrown about and anyone who dares question the societal norm is shouted down by a bunch of womyn and boys with Stockholm syndrome.

I don't think it is radical feminism to see women as more than mere sperm depositories that will bear children for me.  

Interesting that the "boys with Stockholm syndrome" are mostly happily married.  On the other side there is a jailbird that constantly rants about his ex-wife, a person who takes his family to visit his mama-san and a bunch of complaining single guys.  

For all of the idealizing that one hears about the 'good old days', those of us old enough to remember those days know that not all was Ozzie and Harriet. In the old mine towns of north east PA, for example, many women worked in the clothing mills and other piece work factories that replaced the mines while their 'man-folk' were not out hunting or gathering, but rather hanging out at the local saloon to bemoan the state of the world only to come home to take out their anger at their children and wives. I remember when we lived in one of those towns where my father was the priest. Domestic violence and substance abuse is nothing new under the sun. I also remember how in greater Binghamton at least, most of my friend's mothers worked after the war and into their retirement - either at Endicott Johnson Shoe works, IBM or other factories.

Anecdotally, I will make one comment. When I was growing up in the 1960's, we had two hundred children in our parish Sunday School. My peer group was involved in the church youth groups, youth choir, sports programs etc... Most of my group married young ladies from our parish or girls we met at church camp, conventions (like FROC or GOYA). Thirty or so years later, the percentage of those marriages still intact is well over eighty percent. There is something to be said about seeking out a life-mate from within your own sphere of interests. I know that the world is different today and parishes are smaller etc...but the reality is that those marriages which survived the turmoil of our modern era generally consisted of a man and a woman who respected each other, treated each other with kindness and love and who held shared values.

If this is representative of 'Stockholm syndrome' or being a 'beta male', well, maybe you should buy a ticket to Sweden. Relationships are not all about hormones.

Binghamton of Binghamtom NY fame? I grew up around 70 miles away from there.  :)

Anyway, good thoughts.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 05:15:33 PM
This thread grows more disgusting.
There is a lot of BS getting thrown about and anyone who dares question the societal norm is shouted down by a bunch of womyn and boys with Stockholm syndrome.

I don't think it is radical feminism to see women as more than mere sperm depositories that will bear children for me.  

Interesting that the "boys with Stockholm syndrome" are mostly happily married.  On the other side there is a jailbird that constantly rants about his ex-wife, a person who takes his family to visit his mama-san and a bunch of complaining single guys.  

I don't understand the mama-san cracks. What do you think that word even means?


From reading what you wrote, I assume that you are using the Japanese rendition of mama-san.

I think Nektarios is using the Vietnam War era definition.


Well, I wasn't in the sh*t in Danang, so I didn't think of the Vietnamese definition, but I think Νεκτάριος's puerile implications are clear and disgusting.

For those unfamiliar with Japanese, "mama-san" refers to the female manager of a cafe, pub/bar, restaurant, or other similar establishment. In my particular case, an elderly woman who ran a small bar in town (she has since retired after a bout with cancer). She showed me great kindness when I lived there, regularly having me over to share dinner with her, her adult children, and extended family. Once she even had ice cream brought to my apartment when I was sick with tonsillitis. My wife knew her when we were dating, so of course we visit her when we are in Japan.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 05:21:29 PM
When facts won't do, there are always ad hominems:
This thread grows more disgusting.
There is a lot of BS getting thrown about and anyone who dares question the societal norm is shouted down by a bunch of womyn and boys with Stockholm syndrome.

I don't think it is radical feminism to see women as more than mere sperm depositories that will bear children for me.
no, but your feminazi side is what makes you think anyone said any women were just sperm despositories for child bearing.

Interesting that the "boys with Stockholm syndrome" are mostly happily married.  On the other side there is a jailbird that constantly rants about his ex-wife, a person who takes his family to visit his mama-san and a bunch of complaining single guys.  
Don't know if Sauron is one of the "boys with Stockholm syndrome."  Sauron, you happily married?

As for jailbirds, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Christ...I'm in good company.  As for ranting, I have a lot to rant about.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,20341.msg320388.html#msg320388
I have an issue about my sons' mother's face being chewed in their presence, but then I'm just a primitive bedouin, and not used to civilized life, as demonstrated by the number of women beaten by live in boyfriends, shack ups and one night stands.

Oh, and as to your question about "how's it working," I've had to turn down a number of offers.  So well I guess on that level.

As for Sauron, that's between his wife and him, and his children.  I take it mama-san was before he was married.  Ah, now I see that Sauron has addressed your puerile smugness, so common on the left.

As for complaining single guys, this thread was about complaining single women.  The single guy are just pointing out a lot of reasons why the ladies are, and will remain, single.  Of course, they can stay single, but they seem not to want to.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Νεκτάριος on May 10, 2012, 05:23:40 PM
Great post, Podkarpatska!  I'm surrounded by what I'd call a "gopnik" culture and have come to deeply hate it.  The whole concept is to be tough, be an alpha male and bully anybody whom you can.  Compassion is a sign of weakness.  It's a really unfortunate part of Russian culture.    
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 05:25:52 PM
Don't know if Sauron is one of the "boys with Stockholm syndrome."  Sauron, you happily married?

For ten years. We have two beautiful kids with, by all indications, Mensa-class brains. (just like Dad)

Quote
As for complaining single guys, this thread was about complaining single women.  The single guy are just pointing out a lot of reasons why the ladies are, and will remain, single.  Of course, they can stay single, but they seem not to want to.

Yes. Men are increasingly willing to give women exactly what they want.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 05:27:40 PM
Great post, Podkarpatska!  I'm surrounded by what I'd call a "gopnik" culture and have come to deeply hate it.  The whole concept is to be tough, be an alpha male and bully anybody whom you can.  Compassion is a sign of weakness.  It's a really unfortunate part of Russian culture.    

Being beta, you have just made a caricature of it in your mind. Similar to the "nice guys" who whine, "girls just like jerks!" No, they like confidence. Can a jerk be confident? Sure, but so can a "nice guy".

 
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 05:29:06 PM
Don't know if Sauron is one of the "boys with Stockholm syndrome."  Sauron, you happily married?

For ten years. We have two beautiful kids with, by all indications, Mensa-class brains. (just like Dad)
Many years!

Quote
As for complaining single guys, this thread was about complaining single women.  The single guy are just pointing out a lot of reasons why the ladies are, and will remain, single.  Of course, they can stay single, but they seem not to want to.

Yes. Men are increasingly willing to give women exactly what they want.
Yes, and then they tread sour grapes into whine.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: podkarpatska on May 10, 2012, 05:34:16 PM
Great post, Podkarpatska!  I'm surrounded by what I'd call a "gopnik" culture and have come to deeply hate it.  The whole concept is to be tough, be an alpha male and bully anybody whom you can.  Compassion is a sign of weakness.  It's a really unfortunate part of Russian culture.    

Among the immigrants from the old Hapsburg domains, it was the 'baba' who typically held the family together in the New World. The men were often the 'weak' ones in the sense that while they worked long, hard days in the mills, mines, docks and factories, many were addicted to alcohol and ideas about their role more akin to the 'alpha male' mentality you are witnessing in parts of east Europe today. Fighting, arguing and more fighting and arguing were on a typical day's agenda. Women held the family together, raised the children, kept the Faith and  often worked either in the home by taking in laundry, borders etc.. or as I noted in sweatshops.

My mother's parents  were such immigrants and had five children - four daughters and a son. My grandfather was a boilermaker foreman for Standard Oil and traveled around the world prior to the war for them. He was a stickler and made sure that his daughters were properly educated - three graduated from college in a day when the percentage of women attending college was minute. My uncle also graduated from college. So I plead guilty to growing up in a family with strong willed women and men who treated them with respect and dignity.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 05:36:03 PM
So I've just about finished getting dinner ready so it'll be warm when my wife walks in the door.  She's coming home late tonight because she takes classes so that she can advance her career.  I think it's awesome and fully support her.  I'm glad it's 2012.  

That's nice. Don't let her child-bearing years get away from her.



Caffeine, nicotine, and masturbation as the big three natural remedies for Spring Fever.

Don't forget local honey.  I've been eating a little bit of local honey every day this year and for about the first time in my life have had no problems this spring. 
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Νεκτάριος on May 10, 2012, 05:40:20 PM
huh?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 10, 2012, 05:46:46 PM

As for Sauron, that's between his wife and him, and his children.  I take it mama-san was before he was married.  Ah, now I see that Sauron has addressed your puerile smugness, so common on the left.

Everyone knows that liberals are the most racially/culturally sensitive, cosmopolitan people there are, unlike those vile conservatives.  They just can't tell one Asian apart from another!
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 05:50:21 PM
Great post, Podkarpatska!  I'm surrounded by what I'd call a "gopnik" culture and have come to deeply hate it.  The whole concept is to be tough, be an alpha male and bully anybody whom you can.  Compassion is a sign of weakness.  It's a really unfortunate part of Russian culture.    

Being beta, you have just made a caricature of it in your mind. Similar to the "nice guys" who whine, "girls just like jerks!" No, they like confidence. Can a jerk be confident? Sure, but so can a "nice guy".

 

Do you know Νεκτάριος that you have just labeled him a "beta" male?

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 05:54:53 PM
huh?

I'd like to read your defense of the "mama-san" wisecracks. If you are man enough to make them, you are man enough to back them up.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 05:55:29 PM
Great post, Podkarpatska!  I'm surrounded by what I'd call a "gopnik" culture and have come to deeply hate it.  The whole concept is to be tough, be an alpha male and bully anybody whom you can.  Compassion is a sign of weakness.  It's a really unfortunate part of Russian culture.    

Being beta, you have just made a caricature of it in your mind. Similar to the "nice guys" who whine, "girls just like jerks!" No, they like confidence. Can a jerk be confident? Sure, but so can a "nice guy".
 

Do you know Νεκτάριος that you have just labeled him a "beta" male?


I have observed.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 05:56:50 PM

Your rudeness and arrogance speaks volumes.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 06:03:43 PM

Your rudeness and arrogance speaks volumes.


I have not said anything rude or arrogant, although I found it particularly gross that you attempted to soothe yourself by speculating about my "obviously painful experiences with women." If that is your idea of polite and meek, there is no such thing are rudeness or arrogance.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: akimori makoto on May 10, 2012, 06:04:52 PM
I would just like to observe that it is not hard to be an alpha in Japan.

I even feel tall there.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Νεκτάριος on May 10, 2012, 06:07:36 PM
I would just like to observe that it is not hard to be an alpha in Japan.

I even feel tall there.

QFT.  After a year in Asia I got really tired of the high percentage of expats playing alpha male that wouldn't even have a chance back home. 
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 06:11:38 PM
I would just like to observe that it is not hard to be an alpha in Japan.

I even feel tall there.

QFT.  After a year in Asia I got really tired of the high percentage of expats playing alpha male that wouldn't even have a chance back home. 

Very common tactic of American white women: to criticize men who are with Asian women. I have discussed this in a recent thread. Racism against Asians is acceptable to white liberals.

Only a real man's man can get a Ukrainian bride, of course:
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/06/0081084

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 06:12:46 PM
I would just like to observe that it is not hard to be an alpha in Japan.

I even feel tall there.

You totally misunderstand the concept. It has nothing to do with height. It is about attitude. The artist in episode 3 of "Girls" was a good example of this.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Punch on May 10, 2012, 06:13:08 PM
I suppose that I am a Charlie or Delta male.  I don't like either the Alphas or the Betas.  They both whimper and wet themselves when they are about to die.  I think that there is a third, very much overlooked, class of male that is neither an Alpha male jerk nor an emasculated Beta.  These are real men, who are strong and able to protect and provide, who accept the responsibility and accountability of leading their families and clans, yet who also are gentle, nurturing, and who know how to love.  These men are humble, not always trying to be first.  Yet they are also firm, not putting up with nonsense and BS.  They will help you and care for you, or they will kill you just as soon as look at you.  It all depends on how YOU deal with them.  My father was one of those, and I hope that I will one day be seen as one.  I think the world was once full of them, as I have read many of their Biographies (and sometimes Hagiographies).  I also knew many of them as I was growing up, and some of them took me under their wing and taught me how to be a man.  I don't think that we see them very often these days, but I am sure they are out there.  I also think that most of them are HAPPILY married. The ones I knew were.

Great post, Podkarpatska!  I'm surrounded by what I'd call a "gopnik" culture and have come to deeply hate it.  The whole concept is to be tough, be an alpha male and bully anybody whom you can.  Compassion is a sign of weakness.  It's a really unfortunate part of Russian culture.    

Being beta, you have just made a caricature of it in your mind. Similar to the "nice guys" who whine, "girls just like jerks!" No, they like confidence. Can a jerk be confident? Sure, but so can a "nice guy".

 

Do you know Νεκτάριος that you have just labeled him a "beta" male?





Obscenity replaced with something more acceptable on the Public Forum  -PtA
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: akimori makoto on May 10, 2012, 06:14:31 PM
I would just like to observe that it is not hard to be an alpha in Japan.

I even feel tall there.

You totally misunderstand the concept. It has nothing to do with height. It is about attitude. The artist in episode 3 of "Girls" was a good example of this.



No, I understand the concept:

(http://www.shibuya109gals.com/images/Mens-Egg.jpg)

Actually, I am not being entirely serious, just trying to inject some humorous observation.

Carry on.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 06:17:03 PM

Your rudeness and arrogance speaks volumes.


I have not said anything rude or arrogant, although I found it particularly gross that you attempted to soothe yourself by speculating about my "obviously painful experiences with women." If that is your idea of polite and meek, there is no such thing are rudeness or arrogance.



I have no need to "sooth" myself.

The "speculation" stems from your seeming disdain for women. 
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 10, 2012, 06:17:07 PM
Great post, Podkarpatska!  I'm surrounded by what I'd call a "gopnik" culture and have come to deeply hate it.  The whole concept is to be tough, be an alpha male and bully anybody whom you can.  Compassion is a sign of weakness.  It's a really unfortunate part of Russian culture.    

Among the immigrants from the old Hapsburg domains, it was the 'baba' who typically held the family together in the New World. The men were often the 'weak' ones in the sense that while they worked long, hard days in the mills, mines, docks and factories, many were addicted to alcohol and ideas about their role more akin to the 'alpha male' mentality you are witnessing in parts of east Europe today. Fighting, arguing and more fighting and arguing were on a typical day's agenda. Women held the family together, raised the children, kept the Faith and  often worked either in the home by taking in laundry, borders etc.. or as I noted in sweatshops.

My mother's parents  were such immigrants and had five children - four daughters and a son. My grandfather was a boilermaker foreman for Standard Oil and traveled around the world prior to the war for them. He was a stickler and made sure that his daughters were properly educated - three graduated from college in a day when the percentage of women attending college was minute. My uncle also graduated from college. So I plead guilty to growing up in a family with strong willed women and men who treated them with respect and dignity.

"Compassion is a sign of weakness"  -- How true.  Being a 2nd generation 100% Slav (from eastern, western and southern slavic grandparents) I've seen this first hand.   Life over there was tough for most, especially for my grandfather.  Some days he only had a slice of bread to eat.  Luckily his mother had an arranged marriage (my grandfather's father died before he was born) and at age 11 he was put on a train by himself with instructions pinned to his coat and he made the long journey to America all by himself to join his mother and new stepfather.  By age 14 he was working in a steel mill.   He was tough as nails, but also could not show compassion easily.   I suspect his peers, the men, were the same way, and that's why they drank the way they did.   At Liturgy last Sunday there was a prayer in the litany for "those we love and for those who are difficult to love". Many of these tough-as-nails men were difficult to love, especially when drunk by mid-morning.  But, they got up and labored in steel mills and coal mines to support their families.  

May I just share that I think Liza was not treated fairly, or with respect.  Many people are harboring alot of hurt, and this seems to be appearing as anger directed inappropriately.  

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 06:23:27 PM

Your rudeness and arrogance speaks volumes.


I have not said anything rude or arrogant, although I found it particularly gross that you attempted to soothe yourself by speculating about my "obviously painful experiences with women." If that is your idea of polite and meek, there is no such thing are rudeness or arrogance.



I have no need to "sooth" myself.

The "speculation" stems from your seeming disdain for women. 


"Sooth" means augury and forecasting the future. You should not do that.

I am not disdaining anyone. I am simply expounding upon the church's comments as mentioned in the subject article. Women have reacted to the article by claiming offense. Well, guess what? That is an emotional reaction that does not change reality.

However, I use my brain to solve problems and offer solutions. I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: SolEX01 on May 10, 2012, 06:27:15 PM

Your rudeness and arrogance speaks volumes.


I have not said anything rude or arrogant, although I found it particularly gross that you attempted to soothe yourself by speculating about my "obviously painful experiences with women." If that is your idea of polite and meek, there is no such thing are rudeness or arrogance.

I don't see what this has to do with a Roman Catholic Priest suggesting that women lower their expectations in order to be married.  I knew 4 sets of friends who married in 2011; nearly all of them were above 30; one was above 40.  People are waiting longer to get married because they want to find the right spouse.  As I've mentioned elsewhere on this board, I didn't find the right woman; maybe I never will.  I'm not going to compromise myself just to get married and I'm not going to regret lost opportunity.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 06:27:28 PM

Your rudeness and arrogance speaks volumes.


I have not said anything rude or arrogant, although I found it particularly gross that you attempted to soothe yourself by speculating about my "obviously painful experiences with women." If that is your idea of polite and meek, there is no such thing are rudeness or arrogance.



I have no need to "sooth" myself.

The "speculation" stems from your seeming disdain for women. 


"Sooth" means augury and forecasting the future. You should not do that.

I am not disdaining anyone. I am simply expounding upon the church's comments as mentioned in the subject article. Women have reacted to the article by claiming offense. Well, guess what? That is an emotional reaction that does not change reality.

However, I use my brain to solve problems and offer solutions. I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.

LOL. My current interest is a self described crazy cat lady.  We spent last night talking about Kopi Luwak.

btw, I love cats myself.  All the ones I've had made it to 20.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: SolEX01 on May 10, 2012, 06:29:30 PM
However, I use my brain to solve problems and offer solutions. I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.

How has this advice helped your single friends find love?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 06:35:23 PM
I would just like to observe that it is not hard to be an alpha in Japan.

I even feel tall there.

You totally misunderstand the concept. It has nothing to do with height. It is about attitude. The artist in episode 3 of "Girls" was a good example of this.



No, I understand the concept:

(http://www.shibuya109gals.com/images/Mens-Egg.jpg)

Actually, I am not being entirely serious, just trying to inject some humorous observation.

Carry on.
why there's no marriages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park_Is_Gay!
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 06:38:58 PM
I suppose that I am a Charlie or Delta male.  I don't like either the Alphas or the Betas.  They both whimper and wet themselves when they are about to die.  I think that there is a third, very much overlooked, class of male that is neither an Alpha male douche nor an emasculated Beta.  These are real men, who are strong and able to protect and provide, who accept the responsibility and accountability of leading their families and clans, yet who also are gentle, nurturing, and who know how to love.  These men are humble, not always trying to be first.  Yet they are also firm, not putting up with nonsense and BS.  They will help you and care for you, or they will kill you just as soon as look at you.  It all depends on how YOU deal with them.  My father was one of those, and I hope that I will one day be seen as one.  I think the world was once full of them, as I have read many of their Biographies (and sometimes Hagiographies).  I also knew many of them as I was growing up, and some of them took me under their wing and taught me how to be a man.  I don't think that we see them very often these days, but I am sure they are out there.  I also think that most of them are HAPPILY married. The ones I knew were.

Great post, Podkarpatska!  I'm surrounded by what I'd call a "gopnik" culture and have come to deeply hate it.  The whole concept is to be tough, be an alpha male and bully anybody whom you can.  Compassion is a sign of weakness.  It's a really unfortunate part of Russian culture.    

Being beta, you have just made a caricature of it in your mind. Similar to the "nice guys" who whine, "girls just like jerks!" No, they like confidence. Can a jerk be confident? Sure, but so can a "nice guy".

 

Do you know Νεκτάριος that you have just labeled him a "beta" male?



(http://www.dailymoisson.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/movie-heroes-when-i-grew-up.jpg)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 06:39:19 PM

Your rudeness and arrogance speaks volumes.


I have not said anything rude or arrogant, although I found it particularly gross that you attempted to soothe yourself by speculating about my "obviously painful experiences with women." If that is your idea of polite and meek, there is no such thing are rudeness or arrogance.

I don't see what this has to do with a Roman Catholic Priest suggesting that women lower their expectations in order to be married.  I knew 4 sets of friends who married in 2011; nearly all of them were above 30; one was above 40.  People are waiting longer to get married because they want to find the right spouse.  As I've mentioned elsewhere on this board, I didn't find the right woman; maybe I never will.  I'm not going to compromise myself just to get married and I'm not going to regret lost opportunity.

Everyone compromises. Let's get real. Everyone wants a 10? Well, guess what? There aren't enough 10s to go around.

And yeah, the priest was giving practical advice. It's like a high school commencement speech. The speaker always says something like, "I see a room full of future doctors, lawyers, perhaps even a senator or president." Come on. An honest speech is more like, "Wow, look at all these future wage slaves. Oh, and I think I see a few DUI offenders!"

Expectations need to be realistic. Women are increasingly postponing marriage. That is fine, but it imposes no duty on men. This article that ran in The Atlantic late last year is very emblematic of what I am discussing:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/11/all-the-single-ladies/8654/
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 06:40:11 PM
However, I use my brain to solve problems and offer solutions. I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.

How has this advice helped your single friends find love?

That is not the purpose of the advice. Unless the friend has a sick thing for cats, and I frankly do not want to know about that.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 06:42:41 PM

I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.


You seriously are not seeing how rude you are?

What if I am not a cat person, but, prefer dogs?  What then?

Seriously my friend, take a step back....and take a breath.

You don't know me, and you can hardly speak for the greater female population.

You don't know what "we" as women have gone through in our personal lives, that finds us "creeping in to our 50's" and single....and it's not your place to judge us.  How dare you!

It's not enough that we get it from our coworkers (not in the HR Dept), or that we are whispered about at the office "she's probably a lesbian", or that we have the married men placating us....because of our seemingly miserable single status!  ...or that the man at the corner restaurant take out counter notices no ring and offers that you pay with something other than money for your food, or that you have to defend yourself to some unknown man on an internet forum who finds he needs to improve his self-esteem by harassing women and belittling them.

GET OVER IT!  Sheesh!

A woman does NOT need a man to be happy.  

You, my dear man, are belittling all the other blessings bestowed upon single women by God...because apparently they mean nothing, if she isn't hitched to a man during her child bearing years!

....and let it be known...this "creeping on 50" female is NOT single by choice, is not a lesbian, and believe it or not, is HAPPY!!!!  I don't need a man to come and rescue me from some misery.  I have NEVER complained about my single status, as it is claimed by you guys that older females do all the time.  I don't know of ANY older women who whine about being single or claim the need to be rescued, as you put it.

You guys have a skewed view of women.....and it breaks my heart to hear it.  I don't know where you've been finding these women that seem to be such a pest to society and men, in general.  You need to UP YOUR standards and look at a different group of females....and stop generalizing.

Shameful behavior from a few of the men here.  Simply sad to read.

....and you wonder "what" women want in a man....well, I'll tell you...it's not that which has been displayed in this thread!  


Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 06:45:52 PM

I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.


You seriously are not seeing how rude you are?

What if I am not a cat person, but, prefer dogs?  What then?

Seriously my friend, take a step back....and take a breath.

You don't know me, and you can hardly speak for the greater female population.

You don't know what "we" as women have gone through in our personal lives, that finds us "creeping in to our 50's" and single....and it's not your place to judge us.  How dare you!

It's not enough that we get it from our coworkers (not in the HR Dept), or that we are whispered about at the office "she's probably a lesbian", or that we have the married men placating us....because of our seemingly miserable single status!  ...or that the man at the corner restaurant take out counter notices no ring and offers that you pay with something other than money for your food, or that you have to defend yourself to some unknown man on an internet forum who finds he needs to improve his self-esteem by harassing women and belittling them.

GET OVER IT!  Sheesh!

A woman does NOT need a man to be happy.  

You, my dear man, are belittling all the other blessings bestowed upon single women by God...because apparently they mean nothing, if she isn't hitched to a man during her child bearing years!

....and let it be known...this "creeping on 50" female is NOT single by choice, is not a lesbian, and believe it or not, is HAPPY!!!!  I don't need a man to come and rescue me from some misery.  I have NEVER complained about my single status, as it is claimed by you guys that older females do all the time.  I don't know of ANY older women who whine about being single or claim the need to be rescued, as you put it.

You guys have a skewed view of women.....and it breaks my heart to hear it.  I don't know where you've been finding these women that seem to be such a pest to society and men, in general.  You need to UP YOUR standards and look at a different group of females....and stop generalizing.

Shameful behavior from a few of the men here.  Simply sad to read.

....and you wonder "what" women want in a man....well, I'll tell you...it's not that which has been displayed in this thread!  



You have convinced me of your happiness. (which was never the topic of discussion in the first place)

Hamlet, Act III, Scene 2
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: SolEX01 on May 10, 2012, 06:46:26 PM
However, I use my brain to solve problems and offer solutions. I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.

How has this advice helped your single friends find love?

That is not the purpose of the advice. Unless the friend has a sick thing for cats, and I frankly do not want to know about that.

If it wasn't advice, it looked like sarcasm.

Besides, should women have to give up cats as part of lowering their expectations?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: podkarpatska on May 10, 2012, 06:52:13 PM
However, I use my brain to solve problems and offer solutions. I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.

How has this advice helped your single friends find love?

That is not the purpose of the advice. Unless the friend has a sick thing for cats, and I frankly do not want to know about that.

If it wasn't advice, it looked like sarcasm.

Besides, should women have to give up cats as part of lowering their expectations?

We compromised. We have cats and dogs.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Hiwot on May 10, 2012, 06:56:36 PM

Your rudeness and arrogance speaks volumes.


I have not said anything rude or arrogant, although I found it particularly gross that you attempted to soothe yourself by speculating about my "obviously painful experiences with women." If that is your idea of polite and meek, there is no such thing are rudeness or arrogance.



I have no need to "sooth" myself.

The "speculation" stems from your seeming disdain for women. 


"Sooth" means augury and forecasting the future. You should not do that.

I am not disdaining anyone. I am simply expounding upon the church's comments as mentioned in the subject article. Women have reacted to the article by claiming offense. Well, guess what? That is an emotional reaction that does not change reality.

However, I use my brain to solve problems and offer solutions. I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.


how galant of you!

Sauron, if that’s the extent of your self advertised intelligent brain’s wisdom could go, therein lies the mark of the educated big men of little character. The lack of emotional intelligence masquerading as confidence toots its own horn, because it knows not the mark of greatness and confidence, i.e. humility. Only the great and confident can afford to be humble. The Christian God could afford to be that much humble because he is great. My unsolicited advice to you:  dial down that cockiness, it will do you well to remember The Pantocrator has a unique sense of humor, it might not leave you hysterical, then again it just might.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: SolEX01 on May 10, 2012, 06:57:18 PM
Everyone compromises. Let's get real. Everyone wants a 10? Well, guess what? There aren't enough 10s to go around.

You're right, all of us compromise.  I told a friend of mine to give up finding spouses at young adult conferences, in effect, lowering their expectations.  I told one friend to find a spouse in his area of employment; I told the other friend to look closer to home.  Within 2 years, both married.

And yeah, the priest was giving practical advice. It's like a high school commencement speech. The speaker always says something like, "I see a room full of future doctors, lawyers, perhaps even a senator or president." Come on. An honest speech is more like, "Wow, look at all these future wage slaves. Oh, and I think I see a few DUI offenders!"

We are human; we make mistakes and we are fallen.  We get back up.

Expectations need to be realistic. Women are increasingly postponing marriage. That is fine, but it imposes no duty on men. This article that ran in The Atlantic late last year is very emblematic of what I am discussing:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/11/all-the-single-ladies/8654/

Thanks for the link; however, the article is too technical in that the author wants to maintain her independence rather than settle down.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: SolEX01 on May 10, 2012, 06:59:04 PM
However, I use my brain to solve problems and offer solutions. I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.

How has this advice helped your single friends find love?

That is not the purpose of the advice. Unless the friend has a sick thing for cats, and I frankly do not want to know about that.

If it wasn't advice, it looked like sarcasm.

Besides, should women have to give up cats as part of lowering their expectations?

We compromised. We have cats and dogs.

You are the perfect example for this thread.   ;D
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: SolEX01 on May 10, 2012, 07:02:41 PM
You have convinced me of your happiness. (which was never the topic of discussion in the first place)

Hamlet, Act III, Scene 2

I have a cousin older than Liza who has never married.  She keeps herself occupied with part-time work, communicating with her siblings, nieces and nephew, taking care of her mother and volunteering at her church.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: HabteSelassie on May 10, 2012, 07:16:41 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


However, I use my brain to solve problems and offer solutions.


If using your brain has caused you to pick so many quarrels with the ladies on this forum, as evinced by their responses to you, perhaps you should try something else?  The way my Grampz (rest his soul) taught me, to ever intentionally pick a quarrel with a woman is perhaps the least smartest thing a man can do ;)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 07:52:11 PM

I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.


You seriously are not seeing how rude you are?

What if I am not a cat person, but, prefer dogs?  What then?

Seriously my friend, take a step back....and take a breath.

You don't know me, and you can hardly speak for the greater female population.
No offense intended, but can you speak for a greater female population more than Sauron?

Looking back on how this started:

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.

I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 

Western women have a real entitlement problem. He is giving good advice.

which was followed up by this:

Really?  How so?

I will break it down for you. Stop me when it starts to sound familiar.

In the West, women now spend their twenties and thirties pursuing careers, going their own way, and generally saying "look at me, I got moxie and I'm going places". Well, these years also happen to be when women are the most physically attractive and when they are in their best child-bearing years.

Suddenly, in the early to mid-30s, there is a mad dash to catch a man. (the fish needs a bicycle after all). Unfortunately for them, the good men are largely off the market because they have chosen the women who decided not to squander the looks and fertility of their most marriageable years on an important career in social work or human resources. Meanwhile, our modern women have said, "I will marry after I do all this important stuff, take it or leave it!" That is their right, but it is also the right of men to "leave it". There is no obligation for them to "man up" and rescue them from the consequences of their choices.
He was just stating facts.  Nothing more.

A classic scene from a classic movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-2EIvItVY

It's been discussed:
http://singlemindedwomen.com/women-relationships/tick-tock-how-to-stop-your-biological-clock-from-wrecking-your-love-life/

We can go  back to at least the early nineties/late eighties when this became a prominent issue, as the career girls at the head of the seventies began to have problems having those children they put off.

You don't know what "we" as women have gone through in our personal lives, that finds us "creeping in to our 50's" and single....and it's not your place to judge us.  How dare you!
No offense intended, but who is "we"?  Surely you have not talked to all 3.5 billion of your sex, and I doubt you have spoken with Sauron's wife and daughter (or mama-san).

Again, I don't see him judging you, but I do see you denying what is is a fact:many women put off family and then find out, to their sorrow, that they missed out.  For the reasons Sauron mentioned.

It's not enough that we get it from our coworkers (not in the HR Dept), or that we are whispered about at the office "she's probably a lesbian", or that we have the married men placating us....because of our seemingly miserable single status!  ...or that the man at the corner restaurant take out counter notices no ring and offers that you pay with something other than money for your food,
None of which Sauron insinuated.  Which brings up:
or that you have to defend yourself to some unknown man on an internet forum who finds he needs to improve his self-esteem by harassing women and belittling them.

GET OVER IT!  Sheesh!
You made some insinuation about Sauron having
obviously painful experiences with women.
when he revealed no such thing. It seems you are projecting.  It would do better to aim at a real target.

A woman does NOT need a man to be happy.
 
That's rather dogmatic and absolute, with nothing but personal anecdotes to back it up.

We all know persons who belie that.  I doubt we know them all.

You, my dear man, are belittling all the other blessings bestowed upon single women by God...because apparently they mean nothing, if she isn't hitched to a man during her child bearing years!
You started this all by posting an article about women.  Let's recap:
Quote
Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched...

....and let it be known...this "creeping on 50" female is NOT single by choice, is not a lesbian, and believe it or not, is HAPPY!!!!  I don't need a man to come and rescue me from some misery.  I have NEVER complained about my single status, as it is claimed by you guys that older females do all the time.  I don't know of ANY older women who whine about being single or claim the need to be rescued, as you put it.
We all know plenty.  The article you posted evidently does as well.

You guys have a skewed view of women.....and it breaks my heart to hear it.  I don't know where you've been finding these women that seem to be such a pest to society and men, in general.  You need to UP YOUR standards and look at a different group of females....and stop generalizing.
Unfortunately, as I said, not all women are like you. You are not the only one, but the growing number of the herd willing to give the milk up for free, the increasing peril presented by the "family courts," etc. are making you a shrinking minority.

Shameful behavior from a few of the men here.  Simply sad to read.

....and you wonder "what" women want in a man....well, I'll tell you...it's not that which has been displayed in this thread!  
The truth?  Yes, some of us are aware they don't want that.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 09:43:56 PM

I need to apologize for getting sucked up in to this senseless melee. 

There are some days where it doesn't take much to set folks off....and apparently today was that day for me.

I don't know why I found it necessary to defend myself in this thread....but, being accused (yes, go back and read it) of being almost in my 50's and kind of bitter for not having found someone to rescue me from every woman's apparently lonely and miserable existence without a man...that can only be fixed by getting a cat, and then another...and then another....kind of was the last straw.  ....and no, I am not projecting my own interpretation on the words....they were clearly meant for me.

Funny thing is that I read the OP story on the Web and posted the link...thinking it was kind of funny that a Catholic clergyman is advising women to lower their standards.  It just sounded off to me....as growing up a Christian girl, I was always taught to have HIGH standards and not get all wobbly in the knees when some handsome man paid me a bit of attention.

Well, the knees still wobble on occasion...but, I still hold on to my high standards. 

I'm not single because I delayed the all-important marriage so I could build my career.  ...and while I can't possibly speak for all women, as I have been repeated reminded, I can speak for the women that I do know....and there are plenty.

Those who are single....are not so because they wished it, or delayed marriage....they simply wanted a "good"  husband....and were not able to find him.

Personally, I wanted an Orthodox man....and all the boys (who are now men) grew up and married the girls outside the Church - who also happened to have better careers, a few turned out to prefer men over women....and only....hmm.....ONE married an Orthodox woman from another parish which he met as a boy in summer camp.

I am not sure what the men posting expect here of "older" single women.....but, let me tell you that most hold a job, some have adopted kids, others take care of their elderly parents....  None is single by choice or because of being greedy and wishing to build their careers....or hold out for Mr. Perfect with a huge bankroll.....and I don't care what the "statistics" say....statistics can be skewed any way the statistician wishes to skew them.

I am not angry....I was a bit hurt....but, the long drive home from my lucrative position at a major company with a corner office (not).....gave me time to think it over ....and realize what a waste of time this has all been.

For the men out there....I truly hope you look elsewhere for women....because apparently the ones you have come in contact with are horrible.  Seriously.  We are not all gold diggers, or career builders, or out to only please ourselves.  Most women that I know, go out of their way to please others, and put themselves dead last....to the point of exhaustion.

Don't judge anyone....and that includes elderly single women.  It's not for you to judge them.

....and all I can say....is that repeatedly being referred to as "creeping in to my 50's" on this thread has actually made me feel old. 

Thanks, guys.

I wish you all peace....and may you find exactly what it is you are looking for.   

Adios.





Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Punch on May 10, 2012, 09:59:56 PM
I suppose that I am a Charlie or Delta male.  I don't like either the Alphas or the Betas.  They both whimper and wet themselves when they are about to die.  I think that there is a third, very much overlooked, class of male that is neither an Alpha male douche nor an emasculated Beta.  These are real men, who are strong and able to protect and provide, who accept the responsibility and accountability of leading their families and clans, yet who also are gentle, nurturing, and who know how to love.  These men are humble, not always trying to be first.  Yet they are also firm, not putting up with nonsense and BS.  They will help you and care for you, or they will kill you just as soon as look at you.  It all depends on how YOU deal with them.  My father was one of those, and I hope that I will one day be seen as one.  I think the world was once full of them, as I have read many of their Biographies (and sometimes Hagiographies).  I also knew many of them as I was growing up, and some of them took me under their wing and taught me how to be a man.  I don't think that we see them very often these days, but I am sure they are out there.  I also think that most of them are HAPPILY married. The ones I knew were.

Great post, Podkarpatska!  I'm surrounded by what I'd call a "gopnik" culture and have come to deeply hate it.  The whole concept is to be tough, be an alpha male and bully anybody whom you can.  Compassion is a sign of weakness.  It's a really unfortunate part of Russian culture.    

Being beta, you have just made a caricature of it in your mind. Similar to the "nice guys" who whine, "girls just like jerks!" No, they like confidence. Can a jerk be confident? Sure, but so can a "nice guy".

 

Do you know Νεκτάριος that you have just labeled him a "beta" male?



(http://www.dailymoisson.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/movie-heroes-when-i-grew-up.jpg)

Really.  You realize that I am probably as old, if not older than you?

Two of my heros as I was growing up, and to this day.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Punch on May 10, 2012, 10:03:25 PM

Your rudeness and arrogance speaks volumes.


I have not said anything rude or arrogant, although I found it particularly gross that you attempted to soothe yourself by speculating about my "obviously painful experiences with women." If that is your idea of polite and meek, there is no such thing are rudeness or arrogance.



I have no need to "sooth" myself.

The "speculation" stems from your seeming disdain for women. 


"Sooth" means augury and forecasting the future. You should not do that.

I am not disdaining anyone. I am simply expounding upon the church's comments as mentioned in the subject article. Women have reacted to the article by claiming offense. Well, guess what? That is an emotional reaction that does not change reality.

However, I use my brain to solve problems and offer solutions. I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.


how galant of you!

Sauron, if that’s the extent of your self advertised intelligent brain’s wisdom could go, therein lies the mark of the educated big men of little character. The lack of emotional intelligence masquerading as confidence toots its own horn, because it knows not the mark of greatness and confidence, i.e. humility. Only the great and confident can afford to be humble. The Christian God could afford to be that much humble because he is great. My unsolicited advice to you:  dial down that cockiness, it will do you well to remember The Pantocrator has a unique sense of humor, it might not leave you hysterical, then again it just might.



He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 10, 2012, 10:04:20 PM
I recognize Hiro Oonada, but who's the other guy?  Skorzeny?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Punch on May 10, 2012, 10:13:49 PM

I give the same advice to all lifelong single women: get a cat. When it dies in 13 years, get another one. Then, get another one after that. Then, you're done.


You seriously are not seeing how rude you are?

What if I am not a cat person, but, prefer dogs?  What then?

Seriously my friend, take a step back....and take a breath.

You don't know me, and you can hardly speak for the greater female population.
No offense intended, but can you speak for a greater female population more than Sauron?

Looking back on how this started:

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched.

I never thought I would hear a church advise people to lower their standards.  This has got to be a first!
 

Western women have a real entitlement problem. He is giving good advice.

which was followed up by this:

Really?  How so?

I will break it down for you. Stop me when it starts to sound familiar.

In the West, women now spend their twenties and thirties pursuing careers, going their own way, and generally saying "look at me, I got moxie and I'm going places". Well, these years also happen to be when women are the most physically attractive and when they are in their best child-bearing years.

Suddenly, in the early to mid-30s, there is a mad dash to catch a man. (the fish needs a bicycle after all). Unfortunately for them, the good men are largely off the market because they have chosen the women who decided not to squander the looks and fertility of their most marriageable years on an important career in social work or human resources. Meanwhile, our modern women have said, "I will marry after I do all this important stuff, take it or leave it!" That is their right, but it is also the right of men to "leave it". There is no obligation for them to "man up" and rescue them from the consequences of their choices.
He was just stating facts.  Nothing more.

A classic scene from a classic movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-2EIvItVY

It's been discussed:
http://singlemindedwomen.com/women-relationships/tick-tock-how-to-stop-your-biological-clock-from-wrecking-your-love-life/

We can go  back to at least the early nineties/late eighties when this became a prominent issue, as the career girls at the head of the seventies began to have problems having those children they put off.

You don't know what "we" as women have gone through in our personal lives, that finds us "creeping in to our 50's" and single....and it's not your place to judge us.  How dare you!
No offense intended, but who is "we"?  Surely you have not talked to all 3.5 billion of your sex, and I doubt you have spoken with Sauron's wife and daughter (or mama-san).

Again, I don't see him judging you, but I do see you denying what is is a fact:many women put off family and then find out, to their sorrow, that they missed out.  For the reasons Sauron mentioned.

It's not enough that we get it from our coworkers (not in the HR Dept), or that we are whispered about at the office "she's probably a lesbian", or that we have the married men placating us....because of our seemingly miserable single status!  ...or that the man at the corner restaurant take out counter notices no ring and offers that you pay with something other than money for your food,
None of which Sauron insinuated.  Which brings up:
or that you have to defend yourself to some unknown man on an internet forum who finds he needs to improve his self-esteem by harassing women and belittling them.

GET OVER IT!  Sheesh!
You made some insinuation about Sauron having
obviously painful experiences with women.
when he revealed no such thing. It seems you are projecting.  It would do better to aim at a real target.

A woman does NOT need a man to be happy.

That's rather dogmatic and absolute, with nothing but personal anecdotes to back it up.

We all know persons who belie that.  I doubt we know them all.

You, my dear man, are belittling all the other blessings bestowed upon single women by God...because apparently they mean nothing, if she isn't hitched to a man during her child bearing years!
You started this all by posting an article about women.  Let's recap:
Quote
Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards

Australia is apparently in the grip of a dire man drought, and the Catholic Church in Australia suggests women lower their expectations accordingly if they want to get hitched...

....and let it be known...this "creeping on 50" female is NOT single by choice, is not a lesbian, and believe it or not, is HAPPY!!!!  I don't need a man to come and rescue me from some misery.  I have NEVER complained about my single status, as it is claimed by you guys that older females do all the time.  I don't know of ANY older women who whine about being single or claim the need to be rescued, as you put it.
We all know plenty.  The article you posted evidently does as well.

You guys have a skewed view of women.....and it breaks my heart to hear it.  I don't know where you've been finding these women that seem to be such a pest to society and men, in general.  You need to UP YOUR standards and look at a different group of females....and stop generalizing.
Unfortunately, as I said, not all women are like you. You are not the only one, but the growing number of the herd willing to give the milk up for free, the increasing peril presented by the "family courts," etc. are making you a shrinking minority.

Shameful behavior from a few of the men here.  Simply sad to read.

....and you wonder "what" women want in a man....well, I'll tell you...it's not that which has been displayed in this thread!  
The truth?  Yes, some of us are aware they don't want that.

Sorry, you can parse this up and cut and paste as many pictures as you want on this thread.  But you still acted like a jerkl, and that may explain your situation with women.  Maybe Liz cannot speak for all of the women in the world.  But I have been around quite a few myself, and I do not find them all like you portray them.  In fact, MOST of the women that I know are nothing like you portray them, and most of the men that I know that speak of them as you do gave their women good reason to dump them.  Yes, there are one or two men that I know that were actually taken advantage of, but by far the majority had it coming.  So you go ahead and live in whatever fiction that you want to call the truth.  But just like Liz, or I, may not have a corner on what all women think, you certainly have no corner on the truth.



Obscenity replaced with something more acceptable on the Public Forum  -PtA
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Punch on May 10, 2012, 10:18:33 PM
I recognize Hiro Oonada, but who's the other guy?  Skorzeny?

Ernest Shackleton.  I did not put some of my other heroes up since some may find them offensive. But, since you brought him up:
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 10:33:03 PM
I suppose that I am a Charlie or Delta male.  I don't like either the Alphas or the Betas.  They both whimper and wet themselves when they are about to die.  I think that there is a third, very much overlooked, class of male that is neither an Alpha male jerk nor an emasculated Beta.  These are real men, who are strong and able to protect and provide, who accept the responsibility and accountability of leading their families and clans, yet who also are gentle, nurturing, and who know how to love.  These men are humble, not always trying to be first.  Yet they are also firm, not putting up with nonsense and BS.  They will help you and care for you, or they will kill you just as soon as look at you.  It all depends on how YOU deal with them.  My father was one of those, and I hope that I will one day be seen as one.  I think the world was once full of them, as I have read many of their Biographies (and sometimes Hagiographies).  I also knew many of them as I was growing up, and some of them took me under their wing and taught me how to be a man.  I don't think that we see them very often these days, but I am sure they are out there.  I also think that most of them are HAPPILY married. The ones I knew were.

Great post, Podkarpatska!  I'm surrounded by what I'd call a "gopnik" culture and have come to deeply hate it.  The whole concept is to be tough, be an alpha male and bully anybody whom you can.  Compassion is a sign of weakness.  It's a really unfortunate part of Russian culture.    

Being beta, you have just made a caricature of it in your mind. Similar to the "nice guys" who whine, "girls just like jerks!" No, they like confidence. Can a jerk be confident? Sure, but so can a "nice guy".

 

Do you know Νεκτάριος that you have just labeled him a "beta" male?



(http://www.dailymoisson.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/movie-heroes-when-i-grew-up.jpg)

Really.  You realize that I am probably as old, if not older than you?
Yes.  Your point?
Two of my heros as I was growing up, and to this day
Shackleton.  Excellent choice.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 11:02:01 PM

I need to apologize for getting sucked up in to this senseless melee.
Sucked in?  You're the OP.

There are some days where it doesn't take much to set folks off....and apparently today was that day for me.

I don't know why I found it necessary to defend myself in this thread
because you defended the man hungry women in your OP who want to get hitched to not lower their standards.  Or adopt realistic expectations.

....but, being accused (yes, go back and read it) of being almost in my 50's and kind of bitter for not having found someone to rescue me from every woman's apparently lonely and miserable existence without a man...that can only be fixed by getting a cat, and then another...and then another....kind of was the last straw.  ....and no, I am not projecting my own interpretation on the words....they were clearly meant for me.
you spoke quite dogmatically for all women before those words.

Funny thing is that I read the OP story on the Web and posted the link...thinking it was kind of funny that a Catholic clergyman is advising women to lower their standards.  It just sounded off to me....as growing up a Christian girl, I was always taught to have HIGH standards and not get all wobbly in the knees when some handsome man paid me a bit of attention.

Well, the knees still wobble on occasion...but, I still hold on to my high standards.
Well, no one said you didn't. Not the OP, not anyone else.

What was pointed out by both is many girls have absurd standards that few if any men can meet.  In fact, specifically what was said was not to fixate on the handsome 10 man.

And like I said, you, unfortunately, are not an example of every woman.  And you example is becoming fewer and fewer.

I'm not single because I delayed the all-important marriage so I could build my career.  ...and while I can't possibly speak for all women, as I have been repeated reminded, I can speak for the women that I do know....and there are plenty.
I can't speak for others, but I know plenty of women too.

Those who are single....are not so because they wished it, or delayed marriage....they simply wanted a "good"  husband....and were not able to find him.
I don't recall anyone denying such women (or men). They were, however, not the focus of your article, and hence not the point of the subsequent conversation.

Personally, I wanted an Orthodox man....and all the boys (who are now men) grew up and married the girls outside the Church - who also happened to have better careers, a few turned out to prefer men over women....and only....hmm.....ONE married an Orthodox woman from another parish which he met as a boy in summer camp.

I am not sure what the men posting expect here of "older" single women
neither the article nor the conversation talked about men's expectations of women-younger or older.  It was on the expectations of women, young and old.

.....but, let me tell you that most hold a job, some have adopted kids, others take care of their elderly parents....  None is single by choice or because of being greedy and wishing to build their careers....or hold out for Mr. Perfect with a huge bankroll.....and I don't care what the "statistics" say....statistics can be skewed any way the statistician wishes to skew them.

I am not angry....I was a bit hurt....but, the long drive home from my lucrative position at a major company with a corner office (not).....gave me time to think it over ....and realize what a waste of time this has all been.

For the men out there....I truly hope you look elsewhere for women
Sauron, being happily married, shouldn't be looking for a women anywhere but home.

Myself, I unfortunately learned that marrying someone Orthodox doesn't necessary mean an Orthodox marriage.  I met her through Church.   These things happen.  Right now I'm reacquainting myself with someone.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 11:08:19 PM
I recognize Hiro Oonada, but who's the other guy?  Skorzeny?

Ernest Shackleton.  I did not put some of my other heroes up since some may find them offensive. But, since you brought him up:

Why would anyone be offended that your hero was a Nazi thug?

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 11:11:29 PM
Sorry, you can parse this up and cut and paste as many pictures as you want on this thread.  But you still acted like a douche, and that may explain your situation with women.

Oh?  Really?  What is my "situation with women"?  Explain it to me.
Maybe Liz cannot speak for all of the women in the world.  But I have been around quite a few myself, and I do not find them all like you portray them.  In fact, MOST of the women that I know are nothing like you portray them, and most of the men that I know that speak of them as you do gave their women good reason to dump them.  Yes, there are one or two men that I know that were actually taken advantage of, but by far the majority had it coming.
 
So you go ahead and live in whatever fiction that you want to call the truth.

ah, my "situation with women" again. What "truth" do you call it?
But just like Liz, or I, may not have a corner on what all women think, you certainly have no corner on the truth.
and yet you can explain to me the "truth" of my "situation with women."
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: akimori makoto on May 10, 2012, 11:14:06 PM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

Hey ...
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: SolEX01 on May 10, 2012, 11:19:45 PM
Sorry, you can parse this up and cut and paste as many pictures as you want on this thread.  But you still acted like a douche, and that may explain your situation with women.  Maybe Liz cannot speak for all of the women in the world.  But I have been around quite a few myself, and I do not find them all like you portray them.  In fact, MOST of the women that I know are nothing like you portray them, and most of the men that I know that speak of them as you do gave their women good reason to dump them.  Yes, there are one or two men that I know that were actually taken advantage of, but by far the majority had it coming.

So in every divorced couple, someone "had it coming" not taking into account mutually agreed to divorces.

So you go ahead and live in whatever fiction that you want to call the truth.  But just like Liz, or I, may not have a corner on what all women think, you certainly have no corner on the truth.

His background is well known on this forum.  I met a 10, went out with a 7 and married a 1, thankfully not in Church.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 11:20:06 PM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

Hey ...
what do you solicit?  Solicitation is a crime in the US.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 11:20:44 PM

I need to apologize for getting sucked up in to this senseless melee. 

There are some days where it doesn't take much to set folks off....and apparently today was that day for me.

I don't know why I found it necessary to defend myself in this thread....but, being accused (yes, go back and read it) of being almost in my 50's and kind of bitter for not having found someone to rescue me from every woman's apparently lonely and miserable existence without a man...that can only be fixed by getting a cat, and then another...and then another....kind of was the last straw.  ....and no, I am not projecting my own interpretation on the words....they were clearly meant for me.

Funny thing is that I read the OP story on the Web and posted the link...thinking it was kind of funny that a Catholic clergyman is advising women to lower their standards.  It just sounded off to me....as growing up a Christian girl, I was always taught to have HIGH standards and not get all wobbly in the knees when some handsome man paid me a bit of attention.

Well, the knees still wobble on occasion...but, I still hold on to my high standards. 

I'm not single because I delayed the all-important marriage so I could build my career.  ...and while I can't possibly speak for all women, as I have been repeated reminded, I can speak for the women that I do know....and there are plenty.

Those who are single....are not so because they wished it, or delayed marriage....they simply wanted a "good"  husband....and were not able to find him.

Personally, I wanted an Orthodox man....and all the boys (who are now men) grew up and married the girls outside the Church - who also happened to have better careers, a few turned out to prefer men over women....and only....hmm.....ONE married an Orthodox woman from another parish which he met as a boy in summer camp.

I am not sure what the men posting expect here of "older" single women.....but, let me tell you that most hold a job, some have adopted kids, others take care of their elderly parents....  None is single by choice or because of being greedy and wishing to build their careers....or hold out for Mr. Perfect with a huge bankroll.....and I don't care what the "statistics" say....statistics can be skewed any way the statistician wishes to skew them.

I am not angry....I was a bit hurt....but, the long drive home from my lucrative position at a major company with a corner office (not).....gave me time to think it over ....and realize what a waste of time this has all been.

For the men out there....I truly hope you look elsewhere for women....because apparently the ones you have come in contact with are horrible.  Seriously.  We are not all gold diggers, or career builders, or out to only please ourselves.  Most women that I know, go out of their way to please others, and put themselves dead last....to the point of exhaustion.

Don't judge anyone....and that includes elderly single women.  It's not for you to judge them.

....and all I can say....is that repeatedly being referred to as "creeping in to my 50's" on this thread has actually made me feel old. 

Thanks, guys.

I wish you all peace....and may you find exactly what it is you are looking for.   

Adios.

I didn't know you were funny. It is comical to start a thread and then pretend to have been "sucked in", as if everything you did and said was not 100% your own doing.

You were accused of nothing. I did remark that you were near 50 and single, but that is not an accusation. That is a fact.

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision.

I am a happily married man and therefore have no expectation of spinsters other than they have a bit of integrity and get over themselves. No man, ever, was good enough? So be it. It's comical the way some think the evil world craves them. Tell me another story about how the guy behind the counter at Chili's To Go offered to trade you an Awesome Blossom in exchange for hanky-panky.

No one has judged anyone. I have only described the consequences of certain actions. Also, wear a seatbelt or you might get scraped off the asphalt one day in a crash. That is not a judgment, but merely a description of cause and effect.

For an alleged apology, your post spends a lot of time congratulating yourself and blaming others.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: akimori makoto on May 10, 2012, 11:23:45 PM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

Hey ...
what do you solicit?  Solicitation is a crime in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitor
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 11:24:07 PM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: SolEX01 on May 10, 2012, 11:26:11 PM
And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision

Self-absorption can be relaxed.  Visions can expand.  In some families, the younger siblings can't marry until the older ones have married except I know one example where the youngest sibling married after her 2 oldest sisters married.  Yet, some people choose to remain loyal to their family rather than marrying - old fashioned, yes.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 11:31:15 PM
And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision

Self-absorption can be relaxed.  Visions can expand.  In some families, the younger siblings can't marry until the older ones have married except I know one example where the youngest sibling married after her 2 oldest sisters married.  Yet, some people choose to remain loyal to their family rather than marrying - old fashioned, yes.

That is a false dichotomy. In fact, I find it difficult to think of a better way to be loyal to one's family than propagating it.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 11:36:15 PM
Sorry, you can parse this up and cut and paste as many pictures as you want on this thread.  But you still acted like a douche, and that may explain your situation with women.  Maybe Liz cannot speak for all of the women in the world.  But I have been around quite a few myself, and I do not find them all like you portray them.  In fact, MOST of the women that I know are nothing like you portray them, and most of the men that I know that speak of them as you do gave their women good reason to dump them.  Yes, there are one or two men that I know that were actually taken advantage of, but by far the majority had it coming.

So in every divorced couple, someone "had it coming" not taking into account mutually agreed to divorces.

So you go ahead and live in whatever fiction that you want to call the truth.  But just like Liz, or I, may not have a corner on what all women think, you certainly have no corner on the truth.

His background is well known on this forum.  I met a 10, went out with a 7 and married a 1, thankfully not in Church.
Married a 10, in Church.  Can't (actually, won't) put up a picture of the ex, but she looks like she could be Jami Gertz' twin: I had a black and white picture of her that looks exactly like this (except she is facing the opposite direction):
(http://www.foxmoviechannel.com/images/movie_details/87L0004_lg_3_Jami-Gertz.jpg)
was about an 8 in personality, until you got to know her (then it went down to 1).  7 or 8 in abilities, except art-which was a 10.  Self confidence, as it turned out was nil.  Funny how those things happen.

As for "Agreed" Divorces, many, actually most are legal fictions.  Lazy judges don't want to be bothered with facts when there is a handy cookie cutter, and persons who can't afford lawyers to prosecute the truth.

Some divorces they had it coming, but usually the one bringing it is not the one who "had it coming."  Not an absolute rule, but one wonders if they have no fault and an amicable divorce, why can't they save the marriage.  But that would have to go into case by case.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 11:39:07 PM
So in every divorced couple, someone "had it coming" not taking into account mutually agreed to divorces.

What's this about "mutually agreed divorce"? Every state in the US has no-fault divorce. That means either spouse can unilaterally decide to divorce, and there is nothing the other can do about it.

Care to guess whether husbands or wives initiate most divorces?

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 10, 2012, 11:39:24 PM
And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision

Self-absorption can be relaxed.  Visions can expand.  In some families, the younger siblings can't marry until the older ones have married except I know one example where the youngest sibling married after her 2 oldest sisters married.  Yet, some people choose to remain loyal to their family rather than marrying - old fashioned, yes.

That is a false dichotomy. In fact, I find it difficult to think of a better way to be loyal to one's family than propagating it.

It happens.  I've known a number of people raised by their parents as a retirement plan.  Leaving the parents and cleaving to a spouse didn't comport with the plan.  Makes no sense, but so much in life doesn't.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 10, 2012, 11:40:21 PM
And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision

Self-absorption can be relaxed.  Visions can expand.  In some families, the younger siblings can't marry until the older ones have married except I know one example where the youngest sibling married after her 2 oldest sisters married.  Yet, some people choose to remain loyal to their family rather than marrying - old fashioned, yes.

That is a false dichotomy. In fact, I find it difficult to think of a better way to be loyal to one's family than propagating it.

It happens.  I've known a number of people raised by their parents as a retirement plan.  Leaving the parents and cleaving to a spouse didn't comport with the plan.  Makes no sense, but so much in life doesn't.

There is a guy like that in my Mason lodge. He should have never been made a Mason. (one of the questions is, "can you support yourself and family?")
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 10, 2012, 11:42:46 PM

I need to apologize for getting sucked up in to this senseless melee. 

There are some days where it doesn't take much to set folks off....and apparently today was that day for me.

I don't know why I found it necessary to defend myself in this thread....but, being accused (yes, go back and read it) of being almost in my 50's and kind of bitter for not having found someone to rescue me from every woman's apparently lonely and miserable existence without a man...that can only be fixed by getting a cat, and then another...and then another....kind of was the last straw.  ....and no, I am not projecting my own interpretation on the words....they were clearly meant for me.

Funny thing is that I read the OP story on the Web and posted the link...thinking it was kind of funny that a Catholic clergyman is advising women to lower their standards.  It just sounded off to me....as growing up a Christian girl, I was always taught to have HIGH standards and not get all wobbly in the knees when some handsome man paid me a bit of attention.

Well, the knees still wobble on occasion...but, I still hold on to my high standards. 

I'm not single because I delayed the all-important marriage so I could build my career.  ...and while I can't possibly speak for all women, as I have been repeated reminded, I can speak for the women that I do know....and there are plenty.

Those who are single....are not so because they wished it, or delayed marriage....they simply wanted a "good"  husband....and were not able to find him.

Personally, I wanted an Orthodox man....and all the boys (who are now men) grew up and married the girls outside the Church - who also happened to have better careers, a few turned out to prefer men over women....and only....hmm.....ONE married an Orthodox woman from another parish which he met as a boy in summer camp.

I am not sure what the men posting expect here of "older" single women.....but, let me tell you that most hold a job, some have adopted kids, others take care of their elderly parents....  None is single by choice or because of being greedy and wishing to build their careers....or hold out for Mr. Perfect with a huge bankroll.....and I don't care what the "statistics" say....statistics can be skewed any way the statistician wishes to skew them.

I am not angry....I was a bit hurt....but, the long drive home from my lucrative position at a major company with a corner office (not).....gave me time to think it over ....and realize what a waste of time this has all been.

For the men out there....I truly hope you look elsewhere for women....because apparently the ones you have come in contact with are horrible.  Seriously.  We are not all gold diggers, or career builders, or out to only please ourselves.  Most women that I know, go out of their way to please others, and put themselves dead last....to the point of exhaustion.

Don't judge anyone....and that includes elderly single women.  It's not for you to judge them.

....and all I can say....is that repeatedly being referred to as "creeping in to my 50's" on this thread has actually made me feel old. 

Thanks, guys.

I wish you all peace....and may you find exactly what it is you are looking for.   

Adios.

I didn't know you were funny. It is comical to start a thread and then pretend to have been "sucked in", as if everything you did and said was not 100% your own doing.

You were accused of nothing. I did remark that you were near 50 and single, but that is not an accusation. That is a fact.

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision.

I am a happily married man and therefore have no expectation of spinsters other than they have a bit of integrity and get over themselves. No man, ever, was good enough? So be it. It's comical the way some think the evil world craves them. Tell me another story about how the guy behind the counter at Chili's To Go offered to trade you an Awesome Blossom in exchange for hanky-panky.

No one has judged anyone. I have only described the consequences of certain actions. Also, wear a seatbelt or you might get scraped off the asphalt one day in a crash. That is not a judgment, but merely a description of cause and effect.

For an alleged apology, your post spends a lot of time congratulating yourself and blaming others.



By the way it wasn't the guy at Chili's, it was the guy at the Mediterranean place that just opened up the street.  I had worked late at my really cool job, and decided that I didn't want to do the womanly task of cooking, so, I thought I'd get carryout.  First thing "Mo" (short for Mohammad) did was check out my work "badge" and realize that I worked for a good company....all of a sudden he scoots in to the booth and sits across the table from me, asking how I like my job, how long I've been there, where do I live, why I don't have a boyfriend, and that he would love to come visit me.  :)  I ask where he's from...and he says Egypt....I discover his whole family is still there....and he's most likely "fishing" for a greencard or sponsor.  He couldn't get over my "mesmerizing" eyes...I knew he was full of it, because it was pouring rain....and I hadn't taken an umbrella....my hair was soaked, my eyes were bloodshot from staring at a computer screen all day....and he was hitting on me.  Please.  I might be old, but, I'm not stupid.  I made sure he noticed my cross, pulled out my wallet, in which I have an icon of the Theotokos and flashed her towards him...but, he persisted.   I didn't appreciate the attention.  My standards were not too high.  I had simply come in to get some food....and didn't need to deal with this nonsense.  Of course if I had wanted to, I am sure I could probably have landed this Muslim man as a husband - at least until he got his family over here....but, there's still those high expectations that I have....and marrying a Muslim, is just slightly below the mark.

LOL!  This was the best....and you folks are going to LOVE this....as we sat there, with him gazing lovingly in to my eyes (really...he was...with his chin resting on his hand....head slightly tilted...he was pouring it on thick)....I asked how life was back home since the revolution.  Oh, he said it's tough...but, it's okay.  Then I asked how business was at the restaurant....and he said slow, but, okay....and he's looking to advertise.  .....wait for it......wait......so, his half lidded gaze snapped open....when I replied...."Well, you know you have a rather large Egyptian population not even a mile away."  He looked at me...."Yes, you didn't know?  There's a huge Coptic Church just down the road."  Oh....but...wait....you have little respect for the Copts....and are actually killing them.

Well....I guess my eyes were no longer mesmerizing after that comment.

As for being single due to unrealistic expectations.....really?  Let me double check what my expectations and high standards were all these years....oh yes....I wanted a single Orthodox man.  That was it.  Not really asking for that much, was I?  I had visions of raising a family, and wished to do that with an Orthodox husband.  ....actually, it would have been cool to have met a seminarian when I was young and to be a priest's wife.  Now THAT would have been cool.

Alas, my expectations seem to have been too high.

....and as for the price I am paying for being single...you bet there is a price.  Last time it was about $125 when I called a plumber to fix my leaking shower....which most likely my Orthodox husband would have known how to fix all on his own, and would have saved us $125.  

:)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: akimori makoto on May 10, 2012, 11:55:54 PM
As for being single due to unrealistic expectations.....really?  Let me double check what my expectations and high standards were all these years....oh yes....I wanted a single Orthodox man.  That was it.  Not really asking for that much, was I?  I had visions of raising a family, and wished to do that with an Orthodox husband.  ....actually, it would have been cool to have met a seminarian when I was young and to be a priest's wife.  Now THAT would have been cool.

Alas, my expectations seem to have been too high.

....and as for the price I am paying for being single...you bet there is a price.  Last time it was about $125 when I called a plumber to fix my leaking shower....which most likely my Orthodox husband would have known how to fix all on his own, and would have saved us $125.  

:)


Liza, you are lovely, but, please permit me to say that not every woman is like you.

Remember that woman I mentioned at the beginning of the thread who is about a 5 and expects a 10? She is (nominally) Orthodox.

Personally, I have no qualms in admitting that men and women are equal in vice, only it seems men are more willing to have their vice on open display and to admit to it.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: SolEX01 on May 11, 2012, 12:20:52 AM
So in every divorced couple, someone "had it coming" not taking into account mutually agreed to divorces.

What's this about "mutually agreed divorce"? Every state in the US has no-fault divorce. That means either spouse can unilaterally decide to divorce, and there is nothing the other can do about it.

I mean divorces where couples develop marital separation agreements and go each separate way without protracted litigation.

Care to guess whether husbands or wives initiate most divorces?

The wife.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: NicholasMyra on May 11, 2012, 12:29:13 AM
(http://www.olgachristine.com/icons/OL_Crucifixion_opt.jpg)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: SolEX01 on May 11, 2012, 12:30:10 AM
Sorry, you can parse this up and cut and paste as many pictures as you want on this thread.  But you still acted like a douche, and that may explain your situation with women.  Maybe Liz cannot speak for all of the women in the world.  But I have been around quite a few myself, and I do not find them all like you portray them.  In fact, MOST of the women that I know are nothing like you portray them, and most of the men that I know that speak of them as you do gave their women good reason to dump them.  Yes, there are one or two men that I know that were actually taken advantage of, but by far the majority had it coming.

So in every divorced couple, someone "had it coming" not taking into account mutually agreed to divorces.

So you go ahead and live in whatever fiction that you want to call the truth.  But just like Liz, or I, may not have a corner on what all women think, you certainly have no corner on the truth.

His background is well known on this forum.  I met a 10, went out with a 7 and married a 1, thankfully not in Church.

Married a 10, in Church.

Point of clarification, I was referring to 3 different women in chronological order.  The 10 was a med student (now doctor, now married with baby).  The 7 was a state employee who almost lost her job due to her passivity.  The 1 fooled me because she was living in a 4 BR townhouse on public assistance when I met her.  I've moved on and I have no intention of lowering my standards to find a mate.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Byron on May 11, 2012, 08:30:18 AM

I need to apologize for getting sucked up in to this senseless melee.  

There are some days where it doesn't take much to set folks off....and apparently today was that day for me.

I don't know why I found it necessary to defend myself in this thread....but, being accused (yes, go back and read it) of being almost in my 50's and kind of bitter for not having found someone to rescue me from every woman's apparently lonely and miserable existence without a man...that can only be fixed by getting a cat, and then another...and then another....kind of was the last straw.  ....and no, I am not projecting my own interpretation on the words....they were clearly meant for me.

Funny thing is that I read the OP story on the Web and posted the link...thinking it was kind of funny that a Catholic clergyman is advising women to lower their standards.  It just sounded off to me....as growing up a Christian girl, I was always taught to have HIGH standards and not get all wobbly in the knees when some handsome man paid me a bit of attention.

Well, the knees still wobble on occasion...but, I still hold on to my high standards.  

I'm not single because I delayed the all-important marriage so I could build my career.  ...and while I can't possibly speak for all women, as I have been repeated reminded, I can speak for the women that I do know....and there are plenty.

Those who are single....are not so because they wished it, or delayed marriage....they simply wanted a "good"  husband....and were not able to find him.

Personally, I wanted an Orthodox man....and all the boys (who are now men) grew up and married the girls outside the Church - who also happened to have better careers, a few turned out to prefer men over women....and only....hmm.....ONE married an Orthodox woman from another parish which he met as a boy in summer camp.

I am not sure what the men posting expect here of "older" single women.....but, let me tell you that most hold a job, some have adopted kids, others take care of their elderly parents....  None is single by choice or because of being greedy and wishing to build their careers....or hold out for Mr. Perfect with a huge bankroll.....and I don't care what the "statistics" say....statistics can be skewed any way the statistician wishes to skew them.

I am not angry....I was a bit hurt....but, the long drive home from my lucrative position at a major company with a corner office (not).....gave me time to think it over ....and realize what a waste of time this has all been.

For the men out there....I truly hope you look elsewhere for women....because apparently the ones you have come in contact with are horrible.  Seriously.  We are not all gold diggers, or career builders, or out to only please ourselves.  Most women that I know, go out of their way to please others, and put themselves dead last....to the point of exhaustion.

Don't judge anyone....and that includes elderly single women.  It's not for you to judge them.

....and all I can say....is that repeatedly being referred to as "creeping in to my 50's" on this thread has actually made me feel old.  

Thanks, guys.

I wish you all peace....and may you find exactly what it is you are looking for.  

Adios.

I didn't know you were funny. It is comical to start a thread and then pretend to have been "sucked in", as if everything you did and said was not 100% your own doing.

You were accused of nothing. I did remark that you were near 50 and single, but that is not an accusation. That is a fact.

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision.

I am a happily married man and therefore have no expectation of spinsters other than they have a bit of integrity and get over themselves. No man, ever, was good enough? So be it. It's comical the way some think the evil world craves them. Tell me another story about how the guy behind the counter at Chili's To Go offered to trade you an Awesome Blossom in exchange for hanky-panky.

No one has judged anyone. I have only described the consequences of certain actions. Also, wear a seatbelt or you might get scraped off the asphalt one day in a crash. That is not a judgment, but merely a description of cause and effect.

For an alleged apology, your post spends a lot of time congratulating yourself and blaming others.



By the way it wasn't the guy at Chili's, it was the guy at the Mediterranean place that just opened up the street.  I had worked late at my really cool job, and decided that I didn't want to do the womanly task of cooking, so, I thought I'd get carryout.  First thing "Mo" (short for Mohammad) did was check out my work "badge" and realize that I worked for a good company....all of a sudden he scoots in to the booth and sits across the table from me, asking how I like my job, how long I've been there, where do I live, why I don't have a boyfriend, and that he would love to come visit me.  :)  I ask where he's from...and he says Egypt....I discover his whole family is still there....and he's most likely "fishing" for a greencard or sponsor.  He couldn't get over my "mesmerizing" eyes...I knew he was full of it, because it was pouring rain....and I hadn't taken an umbrella....my hair was soaked, my eyes were bloodshot from staring at a computer screen all day....and he was hitting on me.  Please.  I might be old, but, I'm not stupid.  I made sure he noticed my cross, pulled out my wallet, in which I have an icon of the Theotokos and flashed her towards him...but, he persisted.   I didn't appreciate the attention.  My standards were not too high.  I had simply come in to get some food....and didn't need to deal with this nonsense.  Of course if I had wanted to, I am sure I could probably have landed this Muslim man as a husband - at least until he got his family over here....but, there's still those high expectations that I have....and marrying a Muslim, is just slightly below the mark.

LOL!  This was the best....and you folks are going to LOVE this....as we sat there, with him gazing lovingly in to my eyes (really...he was...with his chin resting on his hand....head slightly tilted...he was pouring it on thick)....I asked how life was back home since the revolution.  Oh, he said it's tough...but, it's okay.  Then I asked how business was at the restaurant....and he said slow, but, okay....and he's looking to advertise.  .....wait for it......wait......so, his half lidded gaze snapped open....when I replied...."Well, you know you have a rather large Egyptian population not even a mile away."  He looked at me...."Yes, you didn't know?  There's a huge Coptic Church just down the road."  Oh....but...wait....you have little respect for the Copts....and are actually killing them.

Well....I guess my eyes were no longer mesmerizing after that comment.

As for being single due to unrealistic expectations.....really?  Let me double check what my expectations and high standards were all these years....oh yes....I wanted a single Orthodox man.  That was it.  Not really asking for that much, was I?  I had visions of raising a family, and wished to do that with an Orthodox husband.  ....actually, it would have been cool to have met a seminarian when I was young and to be a priest's wife.  Now THAT would have been cool.

Alas, my expectations seem to have been too high.

....and as for the price I am paying for being single...you bet there is a price.  Last time it was about $125 when I called a plumber to fix my leaking shower....which most likely my Orthodox husband would have known how to fix all on his own, and would have saved us $125.  

:)


So is this the only man you have ever come across?

Every other man you met during your life, also not up to your expectations?

If you meet 20 people and it doesn't work out with any of them, is it solely their fault?

There's a woman i know that had boyfriend, after boyfriend, after boyfriend and they all dumped her after a while. Another woman has been engaged twice, only to have each man break it off.

The problem is purely with these women and their less than charming personalities.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 08:55:19 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 11, 2012, 09:21:23 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 09:39:47 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.

The word is actually τέκτων and can refer to a number of skilled handymen, not just carpenters.

And, I never said that blue collar was a pejorative. Telling that Adela thought it was.

There is nothing inherently sainted about being a manual laborer. There is not inherently depraved about being a member of an academically-skilled profession. If Punch can crack wise about how I make a living, he can be the man is proclaimed to be earlier in this thread and take it.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 09:55:37 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.

The word is actually τέκτων and can refer to a number of skilled handymen, not just carpenters.

And, I never said that blue collar was a pejorative. Telling that Adela thought it was.

There is nothing inherently sainted about being a manual laborer. There is not inherently depraved about being a member of an academically-skilled profession. If Punch can crack wise about how I make a living, he can be the man is proclaimed to be earlier in this thread and take it.



Telling that Adela thought it was.  What is telling?  Are you saying with your immense intelligence you know I am "Blue Collar" and took it as an insult?

I do defend blue-collar workers, since my immigrant grandfathers worked in steel mills. One grandmother was a union seamstress and another worked in a lightbulb factory. 

For the record, I am an engineer, with an advanced degree.  I sailed through engineering school and grad school and I am a member of Phi Kappa Phi, the honorary society for people with high GPAs.    I have always, though, been drawn to men who could create things with their hands, just like my maternal blue-collar grandfather.   He had empathy and kindness and never berated or attacked people.

Now, maybe the next step is for you to surmise I might be unattractive.    ;)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 10:13:40 AM
Telling that Adela thought it was.  What is telling?  Are you saying with your immense intelligence you know I am "Blue Collar" and took it as an insult?

I think my use of the English language was pretty clear, so I will repeat. It is telling that you found the term "blue collar" to be pejorative when it is nothing of the sort.

Quote
For the record, I am an engineer, with an advanced degree.  I sailed through engineering school and grad school and I am a member of Phi Kappa Phi, the honorary society for people with high GPAs.    I have always, though, been drawn to men who could create things with their hands, just like my maternal blue-collar grandfather.   He had empathy and kindness and never berated or attacked people.

Now, maybe the next step is for you to surmise I might be unattractive.    ;)

High GPAs are less impressive given the epidemic of grade inflation. What kind of engineer, by the way? The term can cover someone who designs a rocket or someone who designs a car door's lock.

You may be unattractive. You will need to post a picture so we can confirm. Unfortunately, we cannot take your word for it because women these days have inflated opinions of their looks because of Facebook; they post a picture and they get a bunch of "likes" and comments saying "so pretty!"

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 11, 2012, 10:18:05 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.

The word is actually τέκτων and can refer to a number of skilled handymen, not just carpenters.

And, I never said that blue collar was a pejorative. Telling that Adela thought it was.

There is nothing inherently sainted about being a manual laborer. There is not inherently depraved about being a member of an academically-skilled profession. If Punch can crack wise about how I make a living, he can be the man is proclaimed to be earlier in this thread and take it.



I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: podkarpatska on May 11, 2012, 10:18:41 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.

The word is actually τέκτων and can refer to a number of skilled handymen, not just carpenters.

And, I never said that blue collar was a pejorative. Telling that Adela thought it was.

There is nothing inherently sainted about being a manual laborer. There is not inherently depraved about being a member of an academically-skilled profession. If Punch can crack wise about how I make a living, he can be the man is proclaimed to be earlier in this thread and take it.



Telling that Adela thought it was.  What is telling?  Are you saying with your immense intelligence you know I am "Blue Collar" and took it as an insult?

I do defend blue-collar workers, since my immigrant grandfathers worked in steel mills. One grandmother was a union seamstress and another worked in a lightbulb factory. 

For the record, I am an engineer, with an advanced degree.  I sailed through engineering school and grad school and I am a member of Phi Kappa Phi, the honorary society for people with high GPAs.    I have always, though, been drawn to men who could create things with their hands, just like my maternal blue-collar grandfather.   He had empathy and kindness and never berated or attacked people.

Now, maybe the next step is for you to surmise I might be unattractive.    ;)

I am a lawyer and I agree with Adela. I grew up among blue collar,clergy, professional, cops, firefighters, engineers etc and could care less. All men put their pants on one leg at a time.

This thread is hardly an icon of proper Christian attitudes and behavior and is most uncharitable.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 10:19:30 AM
I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 10:20:51 AM
I am a lawyer and I agree with Adela. I grew up among blue collar,clergy, professional, cops, firefighters, engineers etc and could care less. All men put their pants on one leg at a time.

Actually, Punch was quite clear that is not the case. He said that some pee-pee in their pants and some don't and he is a real man's man.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: podkarpatska on May 11, 2012, 10:21:13 AM
Good lawyering is about more than good arguing. It includes a willingness to have an open mind, reflection, anticipation and a willingness to concede a point when warranted.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 11, 2012, 10:25:10 AM
I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.



Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 10:26:02 AM
Good lawyering is about more than good arguing. It includes a willingness to have an open mind, reflection, anticipation and a willingness to concede a point when warranted.

The purpose of opening one's mind is the same as opening one's mouth: to close it around something solid.



Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 10:26:54 AM
I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.


Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 11, 2012, 10:28:51 AM
I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.


Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 10:32:17 AM
I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.


Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.


It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 10:35:13 AM
Telling that Adela thought it was.  What is telling?  Are you saying with your immense intelligence you know I am "Blue Collar" and took it as an insult?

I think my use of the English language was pretty clear, so I will repeat. It is telling that you found the term "blue collar" to be pejorative when it is nothing of the sort.

Quote
For the record, I am an engineer, with an advanced degree.  I sailed through engineering school and grad school and I am a member of Phi Kappa Phi, the honorary society for people with high GPAs.    I have always, though, been drawn to men who could create things with their hands, just like my maternal blue-collar grandfather.   He had empathy and kindness and never berated or attacked people.

Now, maybe the next step is for you to surmise I might be unattractive.    ;)

High GPAs are less impressive given the epidemic of grade inflation. What kind of engineer, by the way? The term can cover someone who designs a rocket or someone who designs a car door's lock.

You may be unattractive. You will need to post a picture so we can confirm. Unfortunately, we cannot take your word for it because women these days have inflated opinions of their looks because of Facebook; they post a picture and they get a bunch of "likes" and comments saying "so pretty!"



To go back, I believe Punch was stepping in to defend Liza who, in my view, was being attacked.   He may be "blue collar" but he is man enough to step in and defend a lady.

I don't have to impress you, by the way.  I am proud of my academic accomplishments.  Let's put it this way, if you use your cell phone, it is communicating with cell towers and a main switching system with software I wrote.  My co-workers have mainly been PhDs (at the birthplace of the transistor) in everything from Chemical Engineering, Nuclear Engineering to Computer Science and Electrical engineering.  I've also worked on software that controlled robots used by the Navy to build military circuit boards.  And, I have programmed a Cray Supercomputer. Definately not designing a car door lock.  I'd leave that up to my sister-in-law who has a PhD in Mechanical Engineering. I'm sure after the NSA sent her for her advanced degree, she might be able to take on such a task.  ;)

I also don't need to prove anything about how I look.  I am 100% Slavic.  A lot of posts here are about how beautiful Russian/Slavic women are. Well, my family has it is spades and it is often commented on by outsiders.   

On top of it, I can cook.  (Pirohi, Strudel, Halupki, Palachinki, Borscht, Kifli, ......)

My husband is quite happy, by the way.  :)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 11, 2012, 10:37:39 AM
I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.


Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.


It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.



....and you honestly don't think you are rude?

Wow.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 11, 2012, 10:40:52 AM
I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.


Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.


It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.


Because that's all librarians do.  Shelve books.  

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

I love you, too.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 10:48:49 AM
I also don't need to prove anything about how I look.  I am 100% Slavic.  A lot of posts here are about how beautiful Russian/Slavic women are. Well, my family has it is spades and it is often commented on by outsiders.   

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2w0FSwrLYio/S_Iq9H_shOI/AAAAAAAABA4/ON5-rzbmV0s/s1600/b2a6b90a1133.jpg)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 10:49:31 AM

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.


You generate the profits that pay everyone's salaries?

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 10:50:30 AM
I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.


Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.


It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.


Because that's all librarians do.  Shelve books.  

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

I love you, too.

Hey Schulz, librarians are great!  I have great memories of the librarian who took an interest in what I was reading when I was little. She steered me towards the best books!  And, many of the greatest books for children have been written by librarians. Beverly Cleary, for example. :-)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 11, 2012, 10:52:02 AM

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.


You generate the profits that pay everyone's salaries?


I do billable work, so, yes.

Speaking of which, since this is one of my cataloging days (where I make it easy for our attorneys to have access both online and in print of information that they'll need to provide services to our clients, thereby making us more efficient, reliable, and affordable while maintaining the high quality standards a venerable firm such as ours has and clients expect) and I'm pacing myself today (hence my more frequent input on OC.net this morning), why aren't you doing billable work, Mr. Big Shot?  
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Punch on May 11, 2012, 10:54:34 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 10:56:57 AM

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.


You generate the profits that pay everyone's salaries?


I do billable work, so, yes.

No, that doesn't mean you generate the profits that pay others' salaries. If you are like most law firm librarians, you do billable work here and there, but not nearly enough to match your own cost the firm (salary, benefits, overhead et cetera) let alone anyone else's. You don't have the rates or the volume.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Punch on May 11, 2012, 10:57:31 AM
Librarians - the keepers of mankind's knowledge in the days before the internet.  And those that preserve it for the days after our electronic society fails.  Good for you Schultz, and thank you.

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.


Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.


It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.


Because that's all librarians do.  Shelve books.  

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

I love you, too.

Hey Schulz, librarians are great!  I have great memories of the librarian who took an interest in what I was reading when I was little. She steered me towards the best books!  And, many of the greatest books for children have been written by librarians. Beverly Cleary, for example. :-)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 10:59:06 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

This is a dodge and likely dishonest. What child says, "I want to be a cog in the grand societal machine"? They say they want to be astronauts or something.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: podkarpatska on May 11, 2012, 11:02:30 AM

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.


You generate the profits that pay everyone's salaries?



Speaking of which, since this is one of my cataloging days (where I make it easy for our attorneys to have access both online and in print of information that they'll need to provide services to our clients, thereby making us more efficient, reliable, and affordable while maintaining the high quality standards a venerable firm such as ours has and clients expect) and I'm pacing myself today (hence my more frequent input on OC.net this morning), why aren't you doing billable work, Mr. Big Shot?  

When every child in America is trained to be an engineer or a scientist, will there be anyone left for the important jobs like librarians, lawyers, police officers, firefighters, painters, actors, singers, writers, poets, historians and clergy etc? Not everything in life is about maximizing return on investment and not every element of a balanced society is about making money.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 11, 2012, 11:04:16 AM

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.


You generate the profits that pay everyone's salaries?


I do billable work, so, yes.

No, that doesn't mean you generate the profits that pay others' salaries. If you are like most law firm librarians, you do billable work here and there, but not nearly enough to match your own cost the firm (salary, benefits, overhead et cetera) let alone anyone else's. You don't have the rates or the volume.

I do at least  20 hours a week at a three figure rate, at least half of which is for our managing partner, who trusts me more than most of the associates he works with, for your baseline work.  He does the analysis, of course, but I make sure he has what he needs.

My reputation at my firm and in Baltimore is very good and I do not have to put up with your insinuations, ignorant assumptions, and condescending attitude towards myself or my profession.

Good day, sir.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 11, 2012, 11:05:55 AM
Librarians - the keepers of mankind's knowledge in the days before the internet.  And those that preserve it for the days after our electronic society fails.  Good for you Schultz, and thank you.

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.


Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.


It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.


Because that's all librarians do.  Shelve books.  

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

I love you, too.

Hey Schulz, librarians are great!  I have great memories of the librarian who took an interest in what I was reading when I was little. She steered me towards the best books!  And, many of the greatest books for children have been written by librarians. Beverly Cleary, for example. :-)

We also teach the self-absorbed, arrogant masses how to actually use the electronic resources, as well as catalog them so people actually know that a) we have them and b) where one can access them.  :)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 11:07:19 AM
Librarians - the keepers of mankind's knowledge in the days before the internet.  And those that preserve it for the days after our electronic society fails.  Good for you Schultz, and thank you.

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.


Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.


It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.


Because that's all librarians do.  Shelve books.  

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

I love you, too.

Hey Schulz, librarians are great!  I have great memories of the librarian who took an interest in what I was reading when I was little. She steered me towards the best books!  And, many of the greatest books for children have been written by librarians. Beverly Cleary, for example. :-)

We also teach the self-absorbed, arrogant masses how to actually use the electronic resources, as well as catalog them so people actually know that a) we have them and b) where one can access them.  :)

That must be why library usage and librarian numbers have been in decline for the past few decades.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 11, 2012, 11:11:00 AM
nevermind.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 11:12:05 AM
I also don't need to prove anything about how I look.  I am 100% Slavic.  A lot of posts here are about how beautiful Russian/Slavic women are. Well, my family has it is spades and it is often commented on by outsiders.   

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2w0FSwrLYio/S_Iq9H_shOI/AAAAAAAABA4/ON5-rzbmV0s/s1600/b2a6b90a1133.jpg)

Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.   ;)

 Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....   ;)  Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 11, 2012, 11:13:49 AM
This thread is about libraries now?

Sadly, I don't think man-hungry Australian women are too likely to find men at the library anymore, if Australia is anything like America in this regard.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 11, 2012, 11:22:09 AM

I need to apologize for getting sucked up in to this senseless melee.  

There are some days where it doesn't take much to set folks off....and apparently today was that day for me.

I don't know why I found it necessary to defend myself in this thread....but, being accused (yes, go back and read it) of being almost in my 50's and kind of bitter for not having found someone to rescue me from every woman's apparently lonely and miserable existence without a man...that can only be fixed by getting a cat, and then another...and then another....kind of was the last straw.  ....and no, I am not projecting my own interpretation on the words....they were clearly meant for me.

Funny thing is that I read the OP story on the Web and posted the link...thinking it was kind of funny that a Catholic clergyman is advising women to lower their standards.  It just sounded off to me....as growing up a Christian girl, I was always taught to have HIGH standards and not get all wobbly in the knees when some handsome man paid me a bit of attention.

Well, the knees still wobble on occasion...but, I still hold on to my high standards.  

I'm not single because I delayed the all-important marriage so I could build my career.  ...and while I can't possibly speak for all women, as I have been repeated reminded, I can speak for the women that I do know....and there are plenty.

Those who are single....are not so because they wished it, or delayed marriage....they simply wanted a "good"  husband....and were not able to find him.

Personally, I wanted an Orthodox man....and all the boys (who are now men) grew up and married the girls outside the Church - who also happened to have better careers, a few turned out to prefer men over women....and only....hmm.....ONE married an Orthodox woman from another parish which he met as a boy in summer camp.

I am not sure what the men posting expect here of "older" single women.....but, let me tell you that most hold a job, some have adopted kids, others take care of their elderly parents....  None is single by choice or because of being greedy and wishing to build their careers....or hold out for Mr. Perfect with a huge bankroll.....and I don't care what the "statistics" say....statistics can be skewed any way the statistician wishes to skew them.

I am not angry....I was a bit hurt....but, the long drive home from my lucrative position at a major company with a corner office (not).....gave me time to think it over ....and realize what a waste of time this has all been.

For the men out there....I truly hope you look elsewhere for women....because apparently the ones you have come in contact with are horrible.  Seriously.  We are not all gold diggers, or career builders, or out to only please ourselves.  Most women that I know, go out of their way to please others, and put themselves dead last....to the point of exhaustion.

Don't judge anyone....and that includes elderly single women.  It's not for you to judge them.

....and all I can say....is that repeatedly being referred to as "creeping in to my 50's" on this thread has actually made me feel old.  

Thanks, guys.

I wish you all peace....and may you find exactly what it is you are looking for.  

Adios.

I didn't know you were funny. It is comical to start a thread and then pretend to have been "sucked in", as if everything you did and said was not 100% your own doing.

You were accused of nothing. I did remark that you were near 50 and single, but that is not an accusation. That is a fact.

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision.

I am a happily married man and therefore have no expectation of spinsters other than they have a bit of integrity and get over themselves. No man, ever, was good enough? So be it. It's comical the way some think the evil world craves them. Tell me another story about how the guy behind the counter at Chili's To Go offered to trade you an Awesome Blossom in exchange for hanky-panky.

No one has judged anyone. I have only described the consequences of certain actions. Also, wear a seatbelt or you might get scraped off the asphalt one day in a crash. That is not a judgment, but merely a description of cause and effect.

For an alleged apology, your post spends a lot of time congratulating yourself and blaming others.



By the way it wasn't the guy at Chili's, it was the guy at the Mediterranean place that just opened up the street.  I had worked late at my really cool job, and decided that I didn't want to do the womanly task of cooking, so, I thought I'd get carryout.  First thing "Mo" (short for Mohammad) did was check out my work "badge" and realize that I worked for a good company....all of a sudden he scoots in to the booth and sits across the table from me, asking how I like my job, how long I've been there, where do I live, why I don't have a boyfriend, and that he would love to come visit me.  :)  I ask where he's from...and he says Egypt....I discover his whole family is still there....and he's most likely "fishing" for a greencard or sponsor.  He couldn't get over my "mesmerizing" eyes...I knew he was full of it, because it was pouring rain....and I hadn't taken an umbrella....my hair was soaked, my eyes were bloodshot from staring at a computer screen all day....and he was hitting on me.  Please.  I might be old, but, I'm not stupid.  I made sure he noticed my cross, pulled out my wallet, in which I have an icon of the Theotokos and flashed her towards him...but, he persisted.   I didn't appreciate the attention.  My standards were not too high.  I had simply come in to get some food....and didn't need to deal with this nonsense.  Of course if I had wanted to, I am sure I could probably have landed this Muslim man as a husband - at least until he got his family over here....but, there's still those high expectations that I have....and marrying a Muslim, is just slightly below the mark.

LOL!  This was the best....and you folks are going to LOVE this....as we sat there, with him gazing lovingly in to my eyes (really...he was...with his chin resting on his hand....head slightly tilted...he was pouring it on thick)....I asked how life was back home since the revolution.  Oh, he said it's tough...but, it's okay.  Then I asked how business was at the restaurant....and he said slow, but, okay....and he's looking to advertise.  .....wait for it......wait......so, his half lidded gaze snapped open....when I replied...."Well, you know you have a rather large Egyptian population not even a mile away."  He looked at me...."Yes, you didn't know?  There's a huge Coptic Church just down the road."  Oh....but...wait....you have little respect for the Copts....and are actually killing them.

Well....I guess my eyes were no longer mesmerizing after that comment.

As for being single due to unrealistic expectations.....really?  Let me double check what my expectations and high standards were all these years....oh yes....I wanted a single Orthodox man.  That was it.  Not really asking for that much, was I?  I had visions of raising a family, and wished to do that with an Orthodox husband.  ....actually, it would have been cool to have met a seminarian when I was young and to be a priest's wife.  Now THAT would have been cool.

Alas, my expectations seem to have been too high.

....and as for the price I am paying for being single...you bet there is a price.  Last time it was about $125 when I called a plumber to fix my leaking shower....which most likely my Orthodox husband would have known how to fix all on his own, and would have saved us $125.  

:)


So is this the only man you have ever come across?

Every other man you met during your life, also not up to your expectations?

If you meet 20 people and it doesn't work out with any of them, is it solely their fault?

There's a woman i know that had boyfriend, after boyfriend, after boyfriend and they all dumped her after a while. Another woman has been engaged twice, only to have each man break it off.

The problem is purely with these women and their less than charming personalities.
That happens.

But persons, male or female, finding themselves single for no reason other than lack of interest or not finding the right person also occur.

To make a comparison, my brother, when he was a senior, was in something like half a dozen accidents.  He was never at fault, nor was he driving or doing things that increased his chances of an accident.  They occurred all over, so it wasn't location.  He just was in the wrong place at the wrong time, over and over.

Perhaps if we consider those who get married who shouldn't have, the comparison might be more even.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 11, 2012, 11:23:15 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.
Judas was definitely material for the bar.  Probably contract law.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 11:27:39 AM
This thread is about libraries now?

Sadly, I don't think man-hungry Australian women are too likely to find men at the library anymore, if Australia is anything like America in this regard.

Do you have wine-tasting events at a Whole Foods or some gourmet or organic grocery store?  That's were the women are.  One of my friends, a professional woman who is slender, articulate, well-read and a devout Catholic, goes there  to socialize.  She also wants to find a husband, but is very reserved so she can't go to a bar. 

Single people need to first figure out what they enjoy and then find mates who enjoy similiar things.  Cooking Lessons?  Wine-Tasting Events?  Dinner Clubs?  Book Discussion Clubs?   Car Shows?  Rose Societies?  Photography Clubs? Nature Walks?   Animal Rescue?  My husband and I first started talking about NASA and space shuttles.  He was reserved, as I, so it was easier to find a mutual interest and start talking.  Now we talk about everything.   I hear about sports cars and go to car shows and races.  He hears about books and libraries and art and paintings.  We share gardening interests.  He is in the kitchen talking to me while I cook dinner and he helps me clean up.  Life is very good. :)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 11:32:12 AM

That happens.

But persons, male or female, finding themselves single for no reason other than lack of interest or not finding the right person also occur.

To make a comparison, my brother, when he was a senior, was in something like half a dozen accidents.  He was never at fault, nor was he driving or doing things that increased his chances of an accident.  They occurred all over, so it wasn't location.  He just was in the wrong place at the wrong time, over and over.

Perhaps if we consider those who get married who shouldn't have, the comparison might be more even.

This is a very fair, reasonable post, and it is nice to hear something reasonable for a change.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 11, 2012, 11:36:45 AM
Perhaps if we consider those who get married who shouldn't have, the comparison might be more even.

That is certainly the corollary, isn't it? I know more than a few who fit the bill (including family, like my brother), but had to of course go through the awful marriage and divorce first before they realized that. And I am not old. Maybe the women or men who decide not to get married are just saving themselves and their potential mates trouble down the road. I wish more people were so prudent, rather than getting married because they feel it's the thing to do, or having kids for the same reason, or going to college, or what have you. You don't actually need to have all of the experiences of life just because they're out there to be had.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 11:44:21 AM
Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.   ;)

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....   ;)  Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.


What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 11, 2012, 11:46:10 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

This is a dodge and likely dishonest. What child says, "I want to be a cog in the grand societal machine"? They say they want to be astronauts or something.


To be honest, I don't recall ever hearing of a child saying that they wanted to be a lawyer.  I know lots who said they wanted to be carpenters, truck drivers, machinists (my father's job, btw)...even garbage men (it was the truck.  How close they got to it I'd don't know).  Engineers and doctors, of course.  But lawyers, never.

Just in case anyone is curious, I wanted to be a doctor or professor/teacher when I grew up.  Mission accomplished.  My one son has switched to be a director/producer to a doctor, the other a computer programmer.

My mother nagged my brother into going to college, although he only wanted to be a mechanic.  She's a nurse, btw, my other brother an engineer (he does something with designing those towers that carry electricity: I can't say what exactly, as I know near next to nothing on engineering, although I was married to on in telecommunications/electronics.  I do know they send him around the country), my sister worked as an accountant before marriage and children.  My mother gave up on pushing the younger brother, and he turned out fine, a fine living, home, children, business of his own, etc.  Nothing wrong with wearing a blue collar, or wanting to.  Not for me, but that's just me.  Not, in my opinion, for my sons either, but I can't live their life for them.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 11, 2012, 11:48:17 AM
Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.   ;)

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....   ;)  Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.


What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.


most jobs don't usually intrude on you while you are minding your own business.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 11:50:05 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

This is a dodge and likely dishonest. What child says, "I want to be a cog in the grand societal machine"? They say they want to be astronauts or something.


To be honest, I don't recall ever hearing of a child saying that they wanted to be a lawyer.  I know lots who said they wanted to be carpenters, truck drivers, machinists (my father's job, btw)...even garbage men (it was the truck.  How close they got to it I'd don't know).  Engineers and doctors, of course.  But lawyers, never.

Just in case anyone is curious, I wanted to be a doctor or professor/teacher when I grew up.  Mission accomplished.  My one son has switched to be a director/producer to a doctor, the other a computer programmer.

My mother nagged my brother into going to college, although he only wanted to be a mechanic.  She's a nurse, btw, my other brother an engineer (he does something with designing those towers that carry electricity: I can't say what exactly, as I know near next to nothing on engineering, although I was married to on in telecommunications/electronics.  I do know they send him around the country), my sister worked as an accountant before marriage and children.  My mother gave up on pushing the younger brother, and he turned out fine, a fine living, home, children, business of his own, etc.  Nothing wrong with wearing a blue collar, or wanting to.  Not for me, but that's just me.  Not, in my opinion, for my sons either, but I can't live their life for them.


I cannot disagree with anything you said. The point I am making, as I just stated in a previous post, is that several had not the slightest hesitation to crack wise about my job, but got the vapors when theirs or anyone else's was discussed.

"Oh my sainted hat! How dare you talk about blue collar workers! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT OUR LORD WAS A HANDYMAN AND BOY OH BOY YOU ARE GOING TO GET IT!"

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 11:50:36 AM
Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.   ;)

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....   ;)  Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.


What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.


most jobs don't usually intrude on you while you are minding your own business.

That's cops.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 11, 2012, 12:04:31 PM
This thread is about libraries now?

Sadly, I don't think man-hungry Australian women are too likely to find men at the library anymore, if Australia is anything like America in this regard.

Do you have wine-tasting events at a Whole Foods or some gourmet or organic grocery store?  That's were the women are.  One of my friends, a professional woman who is slender, articulate, well-read and a devout Catholic, goes there  to socialize.  She also wants to find a husband, but is very reserved so she can't go to a bar. 

Single people need to first figure out what they enjoy and then find mates who enjoy similiar things.  Cooking Lessons?  Wine-Tasting Events?  Dinner Clubs?  Book Discussion Clubs?   Car Shows?  Rose Societies?  Photography Clubs? Nature Walks?   Animal Rescue?  My husband and I first started talking about NASA and space shuttles.  He was reserved, as I, so it was easier to find a mutual interest and start talking.  Now we talk about everything.   I hear about sports cars and go to car shows and races.  He hears about books and libraries and art and paintings.  We share gardening interests.  He is in the kitchen talking to me while I cook dinner and he helps me clean up.  Life is very good. :)

Very nice ideas.  I am in the process of finding new interests - cooking, pool, etc.  The number of women out there who enjoy tanks is somewhere in the vicinity of 0!   ;)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 12:07:25 PM
Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.   ;)

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....   ;)  Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.


What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.



Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

 Not all women are Human Resource staff.  Yeah, I hate the mid-year reviews but I appreciated the help from HR when I had to take medical leave for spine surgery and had nothing but paperwork and forms to deal with.

 I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession. 

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....



Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 11, 2012, 12:12:37 PM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

This is a dodge and likely dishonest. What child says, "I want to be a cog in the grand societal machine"? They say they want to be astronauts or something.


To be honest, I don't recall ever hearing of a child saying that they wanted to be a lawyer.  I know lots who said they wanted to be carpenters, truck drivers, machinists (my father's job, btw)...even garbage men (it was the truck.  How close they got to it I'd don't know).  Engineers and doctors, of course.  But lawyers, never.

Just in case anyone is curious, I wanted to be a doctor or professor/teacher when I grew up.  Mission accomplished.  My one son has switched to be a director/producer to a doctor, the other a computer programmer.

My mother nagged my brother into going to college, although he only wanted to be a mechanic.  She's a nurse, btw, my other brother an engineer (he does something with designing those towers that carry electricity: I can't say what exactly, as I know near next to nothing on engineering, although I was married to on in telecommunications/electronics.  I do know they send him around the country), my sister worked as an accountant before marriage and children.  My mother gave up on pushing the younger brother, and he turned out fine, a fine living, home, children, business of his own, etc.  Nothing wrong with wearing a blue collar, or wanting to.  Not for me, but that's just me.  Not, in my opinion, for my sons either, but I can't live their life for them.


I cannot disagree with anything you said. The point I am making, as I just stated in a previous post, is that several had not the slightest hesitation to crack wise about my job, but got the vapors when theirs or anyone else's was discussed.

"Oh my sainted hat! How dare you talk about blue collar workers! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT OUR LORD WAS A HANDYMAN AND BOY OH BOY YOU ARE GOING TO GET IT!"



Then why on God's green earth did you attack me and my profession with a rather pointless and (frankly) poor insult?  I even complimented you.

The circle jerk comment had nothing to do with your profession but with the fact that a bunch of dudes were talking about rating the women they've been with/are with.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 12:13:06 PM
Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

That was not me. That was another poster. I do not think it is right to attribute things to me that I never said.

Quote
I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession.

Again, you have not read carefully. I said there are many engineers, and some design car door locks. I did not say that you did. That you tack a sarcastic "nice" after the idea that you might be a designer of car door locks says something about you. I am sorry you seem to think that work is beneath you. I wonder what else you think is beneath you.

Quote
If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

This is a false dichotomy. It is possible to do both, and all good lawyers do.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 12:14:56 PM
Then why on God's green earth did you attack me and my profession with a rather pointless and (frankly) poor insult?  I even complimented your debating ability.

I don't believe that I attacked you or your profession. However, if I did, it was to make the point. (which I had already explained, but you are requiring me to explain again)

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 12:15:14 PM
This thread is about libraries now?

Sadly, I don't think man-hungry Australian women are too likely to find men at the library anymore, if Australia is anything like America in this regard.

Do you have wine-tasting events at a Whole Foods or some gourmet or organic grocery store?  That's were the women are.  One of my friends, a professional woman who is slender, articulate, well-read and a devout Catholic, goes there  to socialize.  She also wants to find a husband, but is very reserved so she can't go to a bar.  

Single people need to first figure out what they enjoy and then find mates who enjoy similiar things.  Cooking Lessons?  Wine-Tasting Events?  Dinner Clubs?  Book Discussion Clubs?   Car Shows?  Rose Societies?  Photography Clubs? Nature Walks?   Animal Rescue?  My husband and I first started talking about NASA and space shuttles.  He was reserved, as I, so it was easier to find a mutual interest and start talking.  Now we talk about everything.   I hear about sports cars and go to car shows and races.  He hears about books and libraries and art and paintings.  We share gardening interests.  He is in the kitchen talking to me while I cook dinner and he helps me clean up.  Life is very good. :)

Very nice ideas.  I am in the process of finding new interests - cooking, pool, etc.  The number of women out there who enjoy tanks is somewhere in the vicinity of 0!   ;)

Oh great!  This is a great plan.   And, the best thing is you will get a sparkle about you because you will be doing what makes you happy.  That is irresistable to most women.  Another good thing is you will meet other people who might know of a woman who will be right for you.    

THe Singles Groups aren't great.  I found that the other women, even if they are religious, will be quite devious if they think you are a threat.  For example, I was told,by women, to show up at different times (2 hours earlier) or different places than the group. Or, when I was going to a religious fundraiser and shared I had a new dress I wanted to wear, one woman told me, "oh no, it's going to be a blizzard. I'm just wearing slacks and a sweater."  So, I wore warm but dowdy clothes. The woman who told me not to dress up showed up in a chiffon mini-skirt with high-heeled sandals. In a Blizzard.   I guess to get rings on their fingers, belles must be on their toes......  Even religious belles....  ::)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 12:16:01 PM
Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

That was not me. That was another poster. I do not think it is right to attribute things to me that I never said.

Quote
I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession.

Again, you have not read carefully. I said there are many engineers, and some design car door locks. I did not say that you did. That you tack a sarcastic "nice" after the idea that you might be a designer of car door locks says something about you. I am sorry you seem to think that work is beneath you. I wonder what else you think is beneath you.

Quote
If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

This is a false dichotomy. It is possible to do both, and all good lawyers do.



To quote Ronald Reagan... "There you go again...."  ;)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 12:18:24 PM
Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

That was not me. That was another poster. I do not think it is right to attribute things to me that I never said.

Quote
I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession.

Again, you have not read carefully. I said there are many engineers, and some design car door locks. I did not say that you did. That you tack a sarcastic "nice" after the idea that you might be a designer of car door locks says something about you. I am sorry you seem to think that work is beneath you. I wonder what else you think is beneath you.

Quote
If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

This is a false dichotomy. It is possible to do both, and all good lawyers do.



To quote Ronald Reagan... "There you go again...."  ;)

Thank you for correctly attributing someone's words this time.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 12:20:56 PM
Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

That was not me. That was another poster. I do not think it is right to attribute things to me that I never said.

Quote
I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession.

Again, you have not read carefully. I said there are many engineers, and some design car door locks. I did not say that you did. That you tack a sarcastic "nice" after the idea that you might be a designer of car door locks says something about you. I am sorry you seem to think that work is beneath you. I wonder what else you think is beneath you.

Quote
If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

This is a false dichotomy. It is possible to do both, and all good lawyers do.



To quote Ronald Reagan... "There you go again...."  ;)

Thank you for correctly attributing someone's words this time.



My pleasure!  ;)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 11, 2012, 12:21:45 PM
Ah, I missed this earlier somehow. Sorry, Adela.

Do you have wine-tasting events at a Whole Foods or some gourmet or organic grocery store?  That's were the women are.  One of my friends, a professional woman who is slender, articulate, well-read and a devout Catholic, goes there  to socialize.  She also wants to find a husband, but is very reserved so she can't go to a bar.

I live in a college town at the moment. I'm sure there are such places here, but not in my neighborhood. Probably in the Nob Hill district, which is the more upscale part of Albuquerque that I'm afraid I don't feel very comfortable going to. But no matter, as I'm not in the market for a wife at the moment. I take seriously the idea that you should have a good job (if not necessarily a prestigious career, with respect to all the multicolored-collar fighting that is going on in this thread) before you try to get into somebody's life, so as to show a serious attitude about life and goals and all that good stuff, and unfortunately that's not quite where I am right now. :-\ Well, not that I don't have goals or anything, but they're being satisfied academically rather than financially at the moment.

Quote
Single people need to first figure out what they enjoy and then find mates who enjoy similiar things.  My husband and I first started talking about NASA and space shuttles.


That's fantastic! :)

Quote
He was reserved, as I, so it was easier to find a mutual interest and start talking.  Now we talk about everything.   I hear about sports cars and go to car shows and races.  He hears about books and libraries and art and paintings.  We share gardening interests.  He is in the kitchen talking to me while I cook dinner and he helps me clean up.  Life is very good. :)

And may it always be so. I guess if I had to come up with something like that I'd prefer a lady who enjoys PBS documentaries, good books, and at least doesn't scrunch up her face if I have to spend time every so often making funny noises to myself in pursuit of my scientific endeavors (linguistics). Anything else is just gravy. I had a young lady my life, years ago, who met 2/3s of this, so I know they're out there...somewhere...heh.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Schultz on May 11, 2012, 12:23:35 PM
Then why on God's green earth did you attack me and my profession with a rather pointless and (frankly) poor insult?  I even complimented your debating ability.

I don't believe that I attacked you or your profession. However, if I did, it was to make the point. (which I had already explained, but you are requiring me to explain again)



If you don't think that a rude and dismissive, "Come back when you're done shelving..." (which was then explained as NOT being a joke) is not a thinly veiled attack or, at the very least, could not be taken as one, I really don't know what to say and really don't have much more to say to you in this thread.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: NicholasMyra on May 11, 2012, 12:59:43 PM
Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 11, 2012, 01:10:27 PM
Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

I already reported it for moderation with that motive among others. The first time ever I've engaged in any sort of moderating behavior. You should report it officially using the button. Maybe it will get there.

Then again, this could be an honest testament to folks about the less than stellar attitudes of men within the Orthodox Church who are single, divorced, or have purchased a bride.



Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 11, 2012, 01:46:28 PM
Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

I already reported it for moderation with that motive among others. The first time ever I've engaged in any sort of moderating behavior. You should report it officially using the button. Maybe it will get there.

Then again, this could be an honest testament to folks about the less than stellar attitudes of men within the Orthodox Church who are single, divorced, or have purchased a bride.
are we hearing from the unmarried?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 11, 2012, 01:54:32 PM
Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.   ;)

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....   ;)  Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.


What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.



Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)
No, that was me.  I don't think radical feminism/feminazis has any good answers, let alone the best. It was brought up in the context of the skewing of images she was talking about.

Just for the record, I've questioned biro from way back, but only recently learned that she is a woman.  Not that her gender matters IMHO:her ideas are a different matter.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: orthonorm on May 11, 2012, 02:01:55 PM
Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

I already reported it for moderation with that motive among others. The first time ever I've engaged in any sort of moderating behavior. You should report it officially using the button. Maybe it will get there.

Then again, this could be an honest testament to folks about the less than stellar attitudes of men within the Orthodox Church who are single, divorced, or have purchased a bride.
are we hearing from the unmarried?

You are speaking and spouting off a lot, so yes.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 11, 2012, 02:08:07 PM

Gosh, I hope you weren't referring to me as a feminazi.  ;)

I love you all, and I think we need to stop ripping each other to pieces for no good reason.


This whole marriage issue is really silly.  Yes, congratulations to those who found a spouse and are happily married.  Many, many happy and blessed years!

However, many folks - women and men - remain single simply because the "right" person hasn't come along.  "Right" isn't based on their bankroll, or their height, or even how they look.

Standards are used to weed out unlikely candidates.  They are a filter.  If you love skiing, it would behoove you to find a spouse who skis.  If you love art, it would be great to have a partner who loves it, too.  It's not all about money and greed as has been stated in this thread.

The most important thing is that we are CONTENT in whatever "situation" we find ourselves in, at the moment - be it with a spouse, or on our own.

I'm not sure what Sauron expects from single women...that we should just melt into a puddle of tears and wallow in abject misery for finding ourselves to be without a man, or that we should feel like absolute losers.  He's ridiculed our careers, assumed we must all be ugly, and that we work in Human Resources.  That's just plain silly. 

My belief is that everyone should be happy with what they do have....and rejoice in the blessing that God has bestowed upon them...and instead of wallowing in self pity...go out and make their world a better place.

If you are wallowing....that means you are not out "doing"...because if you are "doing" than you are too busy to wallow.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 11, 2012, 02:09:52 PM
Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

I already reported it for moderation with that motive among others. The first time ever I've engaged in any sort of moderating behavior. You should report it officially using the button. Maybe it will get there.

Then again, this could be an honest testament to folks about the less than stellar attitudes of men within the Orthodox Church who are single, divorced, or have purchased a bride.
are we hearing from the unmarried?

You are speaking and spouting off a lot, so yes.
I'm divorce/dismarried, so am I being counted twice?  that will throw the curve off...  I was once single: can I be counted 3x?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 11, 2012, 02:11:16 PM

Gosh, I hope you weren't referring to me as a feminazi.  ;)
No. Never.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 11, 2012, 02:20:52 PM
I'm not sure what Sauron expects from single women...that we should just melt into a puddle of tears and wallow in abject misery for finding ourselves to be without a man, or that we should feel like absolute losers.  He's ridiculed our careers, assumed we must all be ugly, and that we work in Human Resources.  That's just plain silly. 

Allow me to dispel your uncertainty.

I think I was pretty clear on this point, and ialmisry also elucidated, but I will be clear again. I have never made any comment, whatsoever, against single women as a whole. My comments have been directed towards single women who want a mate. In other words, the "man-hungry women" who are the subject of the article that you linked when you started this thread.

If you are single and loving it, wonderful. May it be blessed. My comments are directed at the "man-hungry" women who are of the delusion that no matter what life choice they make, they are equally appealing to men and then when they are good and ready, some man needs to "man up" and marry her.

Forgive me, but that is just not how it works. We can do many things in this life, but one thing we cannot do is choose a course of action and then choose its consequences. When one chooses a course of action, one automatically chooses its consequences. If a woman wants to pursue a career until her mid-30s and then decide she wants to marry and be a mother, she needs to accept that she has less likelihood of that outcome than a woman who makes that decision at 21.

Hey, I would love to be an Olympic athlete but guess what? I'm 36, an age at which an Olympic career would be over, not starting. I missed that train. And, this is really my whole point: there comes a point when a ship has sailed.

I think I have been quite clear, but I will now use capital letters in an attempt to avoid confusion: THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT DIRECTED AT YOU SO PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THEM PERSONALLY. THEY ARE DIRECTED AT THE MAN-HUNGRY WOMEN. IF YOU ARE NOT A MAN-HUNGRY WOMAN, YOU CAN GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: podkarpatska on May 11, 2012, 02:23:48 PM
Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.   ;)

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....   ;)  Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.


What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.



Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

 Not all women are Human Resource staff.  Yeah, I hate the mid-year reviews but I appreciated the help from HR when I had to take medical leave for spine surgery and had nothing but paperwork and forms to deal with.

 I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession. 

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....





Either can be an effective advocate. It depends on the case - either approach can be valid - but often it depends on the nature of the dispute, the location of the case, the attorney for the other side or the insurance company etc.... Diversity is what makes the world go around.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 11, 2012, 02:33:56 PM
Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.   ;)

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....   ;)  Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.


What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.



Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

 Not all women are Human Resource staff.  Yeah, I hate the mid-year reviews but I appreciated the help from HR when I had to take medical leave for spine surgery and had nothing but paperwork and forms to deal with.

 I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession. 

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....





Either can be an effective advocate. It depends on the case - either approach can be valid - but often it depends on the nature of the dispute, the location of the case, the attorney for the other side or the insurance company etc.... Diversity is what makes the world go around.
LOL. or brings it to a screeching halt.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 11, 2012, 02:34:45 PM


I think I have been quite clear, but I will now use capital letters in an attempt to avoid confusion: THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT DIRECTED AT YOU SO PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THEM PERSONALLY. THEY ARE DIRECTED AT THE MAN-HUNGRY WOMEN. IF YOU ARE NOT A MAN-HUNGRY WOMAN, YOU CAN GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS.



Happily going about my business.....  :D

(http://toonclips.com/600/759.jpg)

Have a good day.


Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: J Michael on May 11, 2012, 03:20:51 PM
Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.   ;)

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....   ;)  Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.


What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.



If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....


This: 

(http://www.ripleyaquariums.com/gatlinburg/files/2011/12/great-white-sharks.jpg)

Vs.:

(http://www.secwhistleblowerprogram.org/Portals/46664/images/lawyer_in_court.jpg)

??
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on May 11, 2012, 03:37:11 PM
I'd go with the Carcharodon Carcharias personally.

I hear they have a much friendlier disposition than many lawyers.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 03:40:01 PM
Ah, I missed this earlier somehow. Sorry, Adela.

Do you have wine-tasting events at a Whole Foods or some gourmet or organic grocery store?  That's were the women are.  One of my friends, a professional woman who is slender, articulate, well-read and a devout Catholic, goes there  to socialize.  She also wants to find a husband, but is very reserved so she can't go to a bar.

I live in a college town at the moment. I'm sure there are such places here, but not in my neighborhood. Probably in the Nob Hill district, which is the more upscale part of Albuquerque that I'm afraid I don't feel very comfortable going to. But no matter, as I'm not in the market for a wife at the moment. I take seriously the idea that you should have a good job (if not necessarily a prestigious career, with respect to all the multicolored-collar fighting that is going on in this thread) before you try to get into somebody's life, so as to show a serious attitude about life and goals and all that good stuff, and unfortunately that's not quite where I am right now. :-\ Well, not that I don't have goals or anything, but they're being satisfied academically rather than financially at the moment.

Quote
Single people need to first figure out what they enjoy and then find mates who enjoy similiar things.  My husband and I first started talking about NASA and space shuttles.


That's fantastic! :)

Quote
He was reserved, as I, so it was easier to find a mutual interest and start talking.  Now we talk about everything.   I hear about sports cars and go to car shows and races.  He hears about books and libraries and art and paintings.  We share gardening interests.  He is in the kitchen talking to me while I cook dinner and he helps me clean up.  Life is very good. :)

And may it always be so. I guess if I had to come up with something like that I'd prefer a lady who enjoys PBS documentaries, good books, and at least doesn't scrunch up her face if I have to spend time every so often making funny noises to myself in pursuit of my scientific endeavors (linguistics). Anything else is just gravy. I had a young lady my life, years ago, who met 2/3s of this, so I know they're out there...somewhere...heh.

Yeah, PBS is great!  Well, maybe you could find a local French Club or Spanish Club?  One of my unmarried friends went to a French Club to practice before we went on a trip to France. I think it was at a bookstore. You could pursue an interest in linguistics and not feel pressured to find a date. Just hanging out is good!  Or, maybe startup a meetup group for the language you are best with. I looked for Polish one time and found a list of people hoping one would start up in the area.  One man I worked with started his own book club to meet women.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Adela on May 11, 2012, 03:45:07 PM
I'd go with the Carcharodon Carcharias personally.

I hear they have a much friendlier disposition than many lawyers.

Yeah, since JMichael put it that way it does seem to illuminate the answer.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: J Michael on May 11, 2012, 03:50:33 PM
I'd go with the Carcharodon Carcharias personally.

I hear they have a much friendlier disposition than many lawyers.

Yeah, since JMichael put it that way it does seem to illuminate the answer.


Just another boring day in court.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-soa-fRmpjsE/TYpUx6K72yI/AAAAAAAAAcE/8upBmFK7TkQ/Shark+vs+crocodile.JPG)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: serb1389 on May 11, 2012, 04:03:38 PM
  Warning! 

In post 193 & post 219 Punch used some very vulgar & inappropriate words to describe a fellow human being. 

This is a public warning to Punch as well as to everyone else, that vulgar language of ANY KIND is strictly prohibited by the rules of the Forum.

Also, the fact that this is an Orthodox Christian Forum should give EVERYONE pause as to WHAT they are saying and HOW they are saying it.  Any further violations of ANY of the rules in ANY way will be dealt with swiftly & with low tolerance. 

Please do not allow the demons detract us from the grace & blessings of Mid-Pentecost. 

Christ is Risen!

-Serb1389. General Fora Moderator. 
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: akimori makoto on May 11, 2012, 07:37:09 PM
I'd go with the Carcharodon Carcharias personally.

I hear they have a much friendlier disposition than many lawyers.

Yeah, since JMichael put it that way it does seem to illuminate the answer.


Just another boring day in court.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-soa-fRmpjsE/TYpUx6K72yI/AAAAAAAAAcE/8upBmFK7TkQ/Shark+vs+crocodile.JPG)

(http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2007/05/apollo_justice_250.jpg)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: JamesR on May 11, 2012, 09:43:08 PM
Hey as long as they are decently attractive and willing to sign a prenup, I'll marry any Australian woman.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 11, 2012, 09:44:14 PM
I'd go with the Carcharodon Carcharias personally.

I hear they have a much friendlier disposition than many lawyers.

Yeah, since JMichael put it that way it does seem to illuminate the answer.

Just another boring day in court.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-soa-fRmpjsE/TYpUx6K72yI/AAAAAAAAAcE/8upBmFK7TkQ/Shark+vs+crocodile.JPG)

why won't a shark bite a lawyer?  Professional courtesy.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Punch on May 12, 2012, 01:30:03 AM
He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?


A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

This is a dodge and likely dishonest. What child says, "I want to be a cog in the grand societal machine"? They say they want to be astronauts or something.


No, it is your kind that are dishonest.  Most blue collars are honest and hard working.

What do I do?  Ran out of money in college and was tired of a full course load while working 30 hrs a week.  Still managed six semesters with a 3.54/4.00 in one school and a 4.00/4.00 in another.  Tested with an IQ of 145 (so much for the idiots that think all those who did not get a nice piece of paper to hang on the wall are subhuman).  Qualified as an aircraft mechanic and received the FAA A&P rating.  I have worked 30 years producing electricity in two powerplants.  I have been a Nuclear Auxiliary Operator, Repairman, Predictive Maintenance Engineer (not bad for no degree), developed the Infrared Thermography Program, Vibration Analysis Program, Tribology Program, as well as spending a stint with the Institute of Nuclear Plant Operators in Atlanta, where I audited the equipment failure reports of 28 US Nuclear Plants while assisting with writing the Reporting Guidance Manuals and developing the Equipment Performance Exchange Database.  I was the first non-degreed person to work in this capacity at INPO, and only the second to be asked for by name.  I have recently worked as a Maintenance Planner and am now rebuilding our Preventive Maintenance Program as we restart the power plant where I currently am employed.  I have spent 13 of my 30 years of employment titled as an Engineer, and my salary is comfortably in six figures.  Not bad for no degree, particularly in the blue collar Union position that I currently hold.  I would guess that since I have been employed in all aspects of the generation of electricity for the last 30 years, and given the value of electricity to a civilized society, my guess would be that I have produced far more for this country and people than you have even thought of.  I think that it would be safe to guess that if a vote were taken to either get rid of lawyers or get rid of power plants, I would remain employed.

As to wanting to be an astronaut, it never interested me.  My father (yes, I am one of those who both know who he is and have actually spent time with him) drilled into me from a young age that it was important to have at least one craft skill, and that the most important thing in life after serving God is to serve your fellow man.  In fact, serving your fellow man IS serving God.  As to what I wanted to be as a child?  I have been interested in history, religion, and machines since I can remember - and my parents tell me that I was constantly looking through the set of encyclopedias that we had even before I entered school.

So much for another one of your small minded stereotypes.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: PeterTheAleut on May 12, 2012, 02:56:52 AM
Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?
Why?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: NicholasMyra on May 12, 2012, 03:11:10 AM
Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?
Why?
Because the level of malice and devouring that has occurred is a shameful scandal that we don't want representing the faith online. We don't want inquirers coming on here and taking this mess as normative. What inquirer would feel comfortable asking questions and voicing concern if they think this is how people will act towards them? What if they decide to leave?

We put polemical EO/OO discussions in a private forum for a reason. I think this falls under the same reason.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: PeterTheAleut on May 12, 2012, 03:27:19 AM
Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?
Why?
Because the level of malice and devouring that has occurred is a shameful scandal that we don't want representing the faith online.
Who's "we"?

We don't want inquirers coming on here and taking this mess as normative.
If they would take anything we discuss on an Internet discussion forum as normative, then I think they may have bigger problems than just this forum.

What inquirer would feel comfortable asking questions and voicing concern if they think this is how people will act towards them? What if they decide to leave?

We put polemical EO/OO discussions in a private forum for a reason. I think this falls under the same reason.
We moved this thread to the Free-For-All section for a reason. I think this thread still falls under that reason.

FWIW, speaking from my experience serving as a moderator for the last 5 years, I don't think the reason we move threads to the Private Forum is exactly what you think it is.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Shiny on May 12, 2012, 03:39:55 AM
If they would take anything we discuss on an Internet discussion forum as normative, then I think they may have bigger problems than just this forum.
I'm with you on this Peter, but I don't want to single anyone out on this board, but people have taken things said on this forum as normative and true to the religion. However some have only accepted that just to besmirch the Orthodox.

I'm sure there are plenty of inquirers who are naive because they don't have message board "smarts"
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: NicholasMyra on May 12, 2012, 04:01:59 AM
Who's "we"?
St. Paul And Isaiah. And I'm not saying I'm not often part of the problem, but this crosses the line severely.

"For, as it is written, 'The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

-Romans 2:24 The ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®) copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Paraphrasing from Isaiah 52:5, Isaiah the Prophet, Kingdom of Judah, c.a. 800 BC.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on May 12, 2012, 04:15:04 AM
I actually appreciated seeing some rather contentious fights among the Copts I corresponded with online before attending a Coptic Church (when online was the only option, as there was not C.O.C. where I lived). Maybe I'm a weirdo, but it was good to go into it without rose-colored glasses. Besides, 99% of people only ever fight when they really believe in whatever it is they're arguing over, so what would really be the lesson to the inquirer? Not everyone gets along? The Orthodox Church is full of fallible human beings who squabble a lot over essentially non-religious things? I don't see how either of those are necessarily bad messages, though I think some thread splitting might not be a bad idea. I came here for more pictures of crocodile-shark fighting, not he said-she said spats regarding Sauron and Punch's respective work histories.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on May 12, 2012, 08:00:55 AM

No, it is your kind that are dishonest.

Please enlighten us as to "my kind". Then, we can continue the discussion of small minded [sic] stereotypes.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: PeterTheAleut on May 12, 2012, 01:37:00 PM
Who's "we"?
St. Paul And Isaiah. And I'm not saying I'm not often part of the problem, but this crosses the line severely.

"For, as it is written, 'The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

-Romans 2:24 The ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®) copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Paraphrasing from Isaiah 52:5, Isaiah the Prophet, Kingdom of Judah, c.a. 800 BC.
Prooftexting from the Scriptures to drum up an artificial "we"? St. Paul and Isaiah have never, to my knowledge, posted on this forum to tell us how they would like to see it run, which leaves you to interpret their words in such a way that they "support" your desire. In the end, though, you speak only for yourself and for no one else.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ialmisry on May 12, 2012, 01:41:53 PM
I actually appreciated seeing some rather contentious fights among the Copts I corresponded with online before attending a Coptic Church (when online was the only option, as there was not C.O.C. where I lived). Maybe I'm a weirdo, but it was good to go into it without rose-colored glasses. Besides, 99% of people only ever fight when they really believe in whatever it is they're arguing over, so what would really be the lesson to the inquirer? Not everyone gets along? The Orthodox Church is full of fallible human beings who squabble a lot over essentially non-religious things? I don't see how either of those are necessarily bad messages, though I think some thread splitting might not be a bad idea. I came here for more pictures of crocodile-shark fighting, not he said-she said spats regarding Sauron and Punch's respective work histories.
I agree with the thought that a canon should be promulgated, requiring a catechumen to attend a parish council meeting before acceptance.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: PeterTheAleut on May 12, 2012, 01:45:00 PM
I actually appreciated seeing some rather contentious fights among the Copts I corresponded with online before attending a Coptic Church (when online was the only option, as there was not C.O.C. where I lived). Maybe I'm a weirdo, but it was good to go into it without rose-colored glasses. Besides, 99% of people only ever fight when they really believe in whatever it is they're arguing over, so what would really be the lesson to the inquirer? Not everyone gets along? The Orthodox Church is full of fallible human beings who squabble a lot over essentially non-religious things? I don't see how either of those are necessarily bad messages, ...
EXACTLY! ;D That's the point I'm trying to communicate.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: NicholasMyra on May 12, 2012, 01:49:39 PM
You all don't see a difference between this thread and the normal bickering we engage in?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: PeterTheAleut on May 12, 2012, 02:10:54 PM
You all don't see a difference between this thread and the normal bickering we engage in?
I do see a difference. I just don't agree with the solution you propose.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: PeterTheAleut on May 12, 2012, 03:45:39 PM
You all don't see a difference between this thread and the normal bickering we engage in?
I do see a difference. I just don't agree with the solution you propose.
Here's the solution I propose, then: This thread is locked for a week or so to allow its more heated participants to cool down a bit.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Pravoslavbob on July 23, 2012, 09:54:59 PM
This thread is now re-opened.  Be forewarned that personal attacks will not be tolerated.  Moreover, if things become too heated again or if the thread veers off topic, it may be closed for good.

Pravoslavbob
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Shiny on July 23, 2012, 10:18:02 PM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

That said I would be quite comfortable being a stay-at-home father. I actually prefer staying at home than being in an office primarly because my general dislike of dealing with people.

Is it a prerequisite for me that a woman has career goals, as of right now, I believe so. I refuse to date women who do not have a clear career path and expect a man to "rescue" them by providing them monetary support. Now when the discussion of children arises, yes we will sit down and determine who is going to stay home and raise them. I would be the first to give up my career in order to make it happen.

Women vary greatly on their expectations of men. Ok sure there is the height constant, but outside of that there's alot more than the money one brings in. I've encountered plenty of women who don't give a damn about how much a man makes, but if he has great values, character, etc. But hey if you want a man that rakes in the benjamins, so be it I won't judge you. And if you want to be single and self-sufficent great.

LOL at the implication a woman needs a man to make her happy. That is completely idiotic and just goes to show how deluded men can be about their self-worth.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Sauron on August 14, 2012, 01:40:33 PM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Gorazd on August 14, 2012, 01:44:21 PM
Welcome to the 21st century, guys. Housewives are so 19th century.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Alpo on August 14, 2012, 01:46:52 PM
Welcome to the 21st century, guys. Housewives are so 19th century.

That means the idea of a housewife is completely Orthodox, right? :angel:
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Gorazd on August 14, 2012, 01:48:09 PM
Welcome to the 21st century, guys. Housewives are so 19th century.

That means the idea of a housewife is completely Orthodox, right? :angel:
No, because it comes from the heretical West.

Actually, I have never met a housewife in an Orthodox country.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 14, 2012, 01:51:24 PM
I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

Lol...

Glad to see the thread from hell is back with the sort of posts you'd expect.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on August 14, 2012, 01:53:32 PM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

As long as the kitchen is clean I don't care if she works in her free time.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Shiny on August 14, 2012, 02:07:54 PM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

Oh you
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on August 14, 2012, 02:45:55 PM

(http://chzdatingfails.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/dating-fails-rosie-the-zinger.jpg)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 14, 2012, 02:55:15 PM
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.luxist.com/media/2009/05/passport.jpg)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 14, 2012, 03:05:51 PM
We all love you, Sauron.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on August 14, 2012, 03:51:35 PM

(http://chzdatingfails.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/dating-fails-rosie-the-zinger.jpg)

Hey, my right arm looks kinda like hers!
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Asteriktos on August 14, 2012, 04:03:37 PM
Did I not make myself clear? (http://youtu.be/vfVl-WHYnD0)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: ZealousZeal on August 14, 2012, 04:12:58 PM
Oh good. This again.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: JamesR on August 14, 2012, 04:24:19 PM
I've decided that I never want to get married :) Save myself the stress and money. Orthonorm is 38 and he has never been married but is still a cool guy.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Νεκτάριος on August 14, 2012, 04:25:36 PM
Oh good. This again.

I'm getting kind of bored around here.  Can we have a thread bashing Muslims too?  It has been far too long. 
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: JamesR on August 14, 2012, 04:29:52 PM
Can we have a thread bashing Muslims too?

Sure I'll start. They smell like a donkey's donkey; which, I find rather odd considering that they have to wash themselves all the time before entering their Mosque.



Profanity replaced by something more appropriate for the Public Forum  -PtA
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Shiny on August 14, 2012, 04:57:01 PM
Can we have a thread bashing Muslims too?

Sure I'll start. They smell like a donkey's donkey; which, I find rather odd considering that they have to wash themselves all the time before entering their Mosque.



Profanity replaced by something more appropriate for the Public Forum  -PtA
LMFAO
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: PeterTheAleut on August 14, 2012, 05:15:19 PM
I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

Lol...

Glad to see the thread from hell is back with the sort of posts you'd expect.
What do you expect from the Lord of Mordor?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: Alpo on August 22, 2012, 02:14:26 AM
I've decided that I never want to get married :) Save myself the stress and money. Orthonorm is 38 and he has never been married but is still a cool guy.

You should somehow save this comment and insert it to your wedding invitations.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on August 22, 2012, 10:44:31 AM
I've decided that I never want to get married :) Save myself the stress and money. Orthonorm is 38 and he has never been married but is still a cool guy.

You should somehow save this comment and insert it to your wedding invitations.

At sixteen I wanted to get married.  People change over time.  When some girl shows him a bit of interest he will change his tune.  I know for me all it took was one long term relationship to decide that marriage might not be such a hot idea after all!
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: LizaSymonenko on August 22, 2012, 11:49:38 AM

Oh dear.  She must of done a number on you.

You just picked the wrong girl.  Be wiser in your next choice.

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: celticfan1888 on October 09, 2012, 11:02:24 AM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: OrthoNoob on October 09, 2012, 11:28:08 AM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: celticfan1888 on October 09, 2012, 11:40:24 AM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

I'm not saying she can't be a housewife. But if she doesn't want to be, she shouldn't be forced to. Some women get bored to death sitting at home all day.

You don't believe women are equal?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on October 09, 2012, 11:41:59 AM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

+1.  Evolution via Natural Selection teaches that there are no such things as equals.  Come to think of it, when you take monarchy into account, "the first shall be last and the last first", and "slaves obey your masters" God doesn't really believe in egalitarianism either.  When God and Science agree...it gets kinda obvious.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: OrthoNoob on October 09, 2012, 02:42:15 PM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

I'm not saying she can't be a housewife. But if she doesn't want to be, she shouldn't be forced to. Some women get bored to death sitting at home all day.

You don't believe women are equal?

I don't believe women are equal to men.
I don't believe women are equal to other women.
I don't believe men are equal to other men.
I don't believe there's any reasonable metric that will return the result "all people are equal."
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any two people who are equal by any reasonable metric.
I don't believe an egalitarian structure for the family accords with Scripture, nature, or Orthodox Tradition.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: celticfan1888 on October 09, 2012, 09:13:01 PM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

I'm not saying she can't be a housewife. But if she doesn't want to be, she shouldn't be forced to. Some women get bored to death sitting at home all day.

You don't believe women are equal?

I don't believe women are equal to men.
I don't believe women are equal to other women.
I don't believe men are equal to other men.
I don't believe there's any reasonable metric that will return the result "all people are equal."
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any two people who are equal by any reasonable metric.
I don't believe an egalitarian structure for the family accords with Scripture, nature, or Orthodox Tradition.

If no one is equal, then are you implying that every person has a superior and inferior all the way up and down the scale? So do you want me to start plowing your fields now or later...considering I am not your equal?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on October 09, 2012, 09:19:24 PM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

I'm not saying she can't be a housewife. But if she doesn't want to be, she shouldn't be forced to. Some women get bored to death sitting at home all day.

You don't believe women are equal?

I don't believe women are equal to men.
I don't believe women are equal to other women.
I don't believe men are equal to other men.
I don't believe there's any reasonable metric that will return the result "all people are equal."
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any two people who are equal by any reasonable metric.
I don't believe an egalitarian structure for the family accords with Scripture, nature, or Orthodox Tradition.

If no one is equal, then are you implying that every person has a superior and inferior all the way up and down the scale? So do you want me to start plowing your fields now or later...considering I am not your equal?

When you get famous in Munich I intend on buying a shirt with your name on it.  The likelihood of you ever returning the favour is slim to nil. 

Different people have different talents.  God gives some five and some two and some only one.  What we do with them makes us who we are.  Of the one guy had put it to work and the two guy had wasted it's potential and the five guy had blown it all on crack, we'd have a totally different outcome in the story.  But regardless, the master gave a different number of talents to each servant at the outset.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: OrthoNoob on October 09, 2012, 09:42:49 PM
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

I'm not saying she can't be a housewife. But if she doesn't want to be, she shouldn't be forced to. Some women get bored to death sitting at home all day.

You don't believe women are equal?

I don't believe women are equal to men.
I don't believe women are equal to other women.
I don't believe men are equal to other men.
I don't believe there's any reasonable metric that will return the result "all people are equal."
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any two people who are equal by any reasonable metric.
I don't believe an egalitarian structure for the family accords with Scripture, nature, or Orthodox Tradition.

If no one is equal, then are you implying that every person has a superior and inferior all the way up and down the scale? So do you want me to start plowing your fields now or later...considering I am not your equal?

How can I answer such an absurd question, except to turn the absurdity back to whence it came and say "now, if you please"?

You and I are not equal. I do not know which of us is superior (and the answer would of course depend on what metric you use; for example (and I'm just making this up) I might be a better writer while you blow me away at music), but your right to refuse to plow my fields does not imply that we are equal.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: NicholasMyra on October 09, 2012, 09:53:56 PM
This thread is Sodom and Gomorrah, accursed unto the last day.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on October 09, 2012, 10:00:48 PM
This thread is Sodom and Gomorrah, accursed unto the last day.

No sodomy here.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: biro on October 09, 2012, 10:01:41 PM
What is Gomorrah-ing, anyway?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: OrthoNoob on October 09, 2012, 10:33:19 PM
What is Gomorrah-ing, anyway?

These are the public forums.  :police:
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: dzheremi on October 09, 2012, 10:38:26 PM
What is Gomorrah-ing, anyway?

I guess if you're going to post in this thread, you'll want to put one of those paper toilet seat covers over your computer first...
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: biro on October 09, 2012, 11:23:26 PM
What is Gomorrah-ing, anyway?

I guess if you're going to post in this thread, you'll want to put one of those paper toilet seat covers over your computer first...

Thanks. ;)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on October 10, 2012, 01:17:26 AM
What is Gomorrah-ing, anyway?

You don't want to know.

But in case you do...

The Aristocrats.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: OrthoNoob on October 10, 2012, 01:23:25 AM
This thread is Sodom and Gomorrah, accursed unto the last day.

No sodomy here.

According to some posters on this site, what you just said means "we all give plenty of money to the poor."  :police:
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: celticfan1888 on October 10, 2012, 12:37:45 PM
When you get famous in Munich I intend on buying a shirt with your name on it.  The likelihood of you ever returning the favour is slim to nil. 

Different people have different talents.  God gives some five and some two and some only one.  What we do with them makes us who we are.  Of the one guy had put it to work and the two guy had wasted it's potential and the five guy had blown it all on crack, we'd have a totally different outcome in the story.  But regardless, the master gave a different number of talents to each servant at the outset.

And I'm pretty sure you have some kick butt abilities I do not. That is what makes people equal. IMHO.

Even if you waste your potential, you still have it.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: celticfan1888 on October 10, 2012, 12:41:49 PM
How can I answer such an absurd question, except to turn the absurdity back to whence it came and say "now, if you please"?

You and I are not equal. I do not know which of us is superior (and the answer would of course depend on what metric you use; for example (and I'm just making this up) I might be a better writer while you blow me away at music), but your right to refuse to plow my fields does not imply that we are equal.

I do not see my question as absurd. The lesser should serve the greater, should henot?

If we both are good at things, despite them being different, how are we NOT equal? We are equal in different ways other than your narrow view of equality.

Many of the things I am good at (soccer-football for example, that is my profession), I don't think I was born good at. Maybe my strong build and physique gave me an advantage, but I had to work just as hard as anyone else. Anyone here could be doing what I do if they worked hard.

What if there is a woman who is bigger, stronger, better decisions, more emotionally stable than you, is she more suited to lead the household then? Under your argument?
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on October 10, 2012, 01:10:48 PM
When you get famous in Munich I intend on buying a shirt with your name on it.  The likelihood of you ever returning the favour is slim to nil. 

Different people have different talents.  God gives some five and some two and some only one.  What we do with them makes us who we are.  Of the one guy had put it to work and the two guy had wasted it's potential and the five guy had blown it all on crack, we'd have a totally different outcome in the story.  But regardless, the master gave a different number of talents to each servant at the outset.

And I'm pretty sure you have some kick butt abilities I do not. That is what makes people equal. IMHO.

Even if you waste your potential, you still have it.

I think we are operating on different definitions of equal.  To me it means that all things come out balanced.  I think you are looking at this as 5+2 = 3+4.  This is correct.  Both ends come out equal even though the composite parts are different.  But there are instances in life where you have 5+2 and people want it to equal 1+5.  5+2 =/= 1+4.  There are people out there who are head and shoulders above their competition.  In the Stone Age these 5+2 people would survive and then breed whereas the 1+4 people would either die or at least be passed over when it came time to breed.  Civilization has made it so that even inferiors can survive and even breed, sometime even superior people are passed over due to culturally ingrained traits that would have been disadvantages in the previous eras. 

Regardless, there are superiors and there are inferiors.  Some people will be of equivalent talents, some people might even be complete equals (5+2 = 5+2).  But none of this is guaranteed.  This can also change over time.  I can say hands down that in strength and intelligence I will beat 100% of infants.  Likewise, I will beat most 60 year olds in strength, not all, but most, whereas a significant proportion of them will have more experiences and learned wisdom than I have (I say "most" because there are mental deficients out there).
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: OrthoNoob on October 10, 2012, 03:31:01 PM
How can I answer such an absurd question, except to turn the absurdity back to whence it came and say "now, if you please"?

You and I are not equal. I do not know which of us is superior (and the answer would of course depend on what metric you use; for example (and I'm just making this up) I might be a better writer while you blow me away at music), but your right to refuse to plow my fields does not imply that we are equal.

I do not see my question as absurd. The lesser should serve the greater, should henot?

Yes, of course he should. What was I thinking? That is why, after all, "the Son of Man came not to serve, but to be served."

If we both are good at things, despite them being different, how are we NOT equal? We are equal in different ways other than your narrow view of equality.

What do you think my "narrow view" is? I have an incredibly broad view, actually. Produce one (1) reasonable metric that returns the result "all people are equal." Go ahead. I'll wait.

Many of the things I am good at (soccer-football for example, that is my profession), I don't think I was born good at. Maybe my strong build and physique gave me an advantage, but I had to work just as hard as anyone else. Anyone here could be doing what I do if they worked hard.

No, he couldn't. Not everyone has the capacity to be a great soccer player. Of course you had to work hard to get where you are. It doesn't follow from that that natural talent doesn't exist or that lack of it doesn't limit people's potential.

What if there is a woman who is bigger, stronger, better decisions, more emotionally stable than you, is she more suited to lead the household then? Under your argument?

I haven't yet argued that husbands/fathers should lead their households. If and when I get around to that, it will not be based on any kind of claim that there is no woman who makes better decisions than I or is more emotionally stable or anything like that. Moreover, this is a non-issue, as such a woman would almost certainly not be attracted to me, nor I to her, and thus we would not marry and the question of who should run our mutual household affairs would be rather moot.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: biro on October 10, 2012, 04:09:15 PM
How's this for a metric?

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/250px-CourtEqualJustice_zps6b3e8b94.jpg)

And this?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Excerpt of the first line of the second paragraph:

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal

There you go, two of them. So, you lose.  :)

Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on October 10, 2012, 04:25:34 PM
How's this for a metric?

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/250px-CourtEqualJustice_zps6b3e8b94.jpg)

And this?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Excerpt of the first line of the second paragraph:

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal

There you go, two of them. So, you lose.  :)



Indeed.  All MEN are created equal.  Not women.  Nor blacks or Native Americans since they really weren't humans.  Catholic bogtrotters were questionable as well. 

Shall I go on about how your second statement is pretty falacious?


And honestly, if you believe that we are equal under the law, I suggest you try selling some dope.  I'll bet you'll get in a lot more trouble than if you just stole old people's retirement funds...
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: OrthoNoob on October 10, 2012, 04:40:28 PM
How's this for a metric?

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/250px-CourtEqualJustice_zps6b3e8b94.jpg)

That's not a metric. That's an inscription.

And this?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Excerpt of the first line of the second paragraph:

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal


That's not a metric. That's an assertion.

There you go, two of them. So, you lose.  :)

No, I don't lose. Go look up "metric" and try again.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: celticfan1888 on October 13, 2012, 12:49:47 AM
How can I answer such an absurd question, except to turn the absurdity back to whence it came and say "now, if you please"?

You and I are not equal. I do not know which of us is superior (and the answer would of course depend on what metric you use; for example (and I'm just making this up) I might be a better writer while you blow me away at music), but your right to refuse to plow my fields does not imply that we are equal.

I do not see my question as absurd. The lesser should serve the greater, should henot?

Yes, of course he should. What was I thinking? That is why, after all, "the Son of Man came not to serve, but to be served."

If we both are good at things, despite them being different, how are we NOT equal? We are equal in different ways other than your narrow view of equality.

What do you think my "narrow view" is? I have an incredibly broad view, actually. Produce one (1) reasonable metric that returns the result "all people are equal." Go ahead. I'll wait.

Many of the things I am good at (soccer-football for example, that is my profession), I don't think I was born good at. Maybe my strong build and physique gave me an advantage, but I had to work just as hard as anyone else. Anyone here could be doing what I do if they worked hard.

No, he couldn't. Not everyone has the capacity to be a great soccer player. Of course you had to work hard to get where you are. It doesn't follow from that that natural talent doesn't exist or that lack of it doesn't limit people's potential.

What if there is a woman who is bigger, stronger, better decisions, more emotionally stable than you, is she more suited to lead the household then? Under your argument?

I haven't yet argued that husbands/fathers should lead their households. If and when I get around to that, it will not be based on any kind of claim that there is no woman who makes better decisions than I or is more emotionally stable or anything like that. Moreover, this is a non-issue, as such a woman would almost certainly not be attracted to me, nor I to her, and thus we would not marry and the question of who should run our mutual household affairs would be rather moot.

I think I see your point. I just interpreted what you said the wrong way.

(http://www.koanicsoul.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/tumblr_m3ayv3fYjM1r3uyl0o1_r1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: OrthoNoob on October 13, 2012, 01:18:59 AM
How can I answer such an absurd question, except to turn the absurdity back to whence it came and say "now, if you please"?

You and I are not equal. I do not know which of us is superior (and the answer would of course depend on what metric you use; for example (and I'm just making this up) I might be a better writer while you blow me away at music), but your right to refuse to plow my fields does not imply that we are equal.

I do not see my question as absurd. The lesser should serve the greater, should henot?

Yes, of course he should. What was I thinking? That is why, after all, "the Son of Man came not to serve, but to be served."

If we both are good at things, despite them being different, how are we NOT equal? We are equal in different ways other than your narrow view of equality.

What do you think my "narrow view" is? I have an incredibly broad view, actually. Produce one (1) reasonable metric that returns the result "all people are equal." Go ahead. I'll wait.

Many of the things I am good at (soccer-football for example, that is my profession), I don't think I was born good at. Maybe my strong build and physique gave me an advantage, but I had to work just as hard as anyone else. Anyone here could be doing what I do if they worked hard.

No, he couldn't. Not everyone has the capacity to be a great soccer player. Of course you had to work hard to get where you are. It doesn't follow from that that natural talent doesn't exist or that lack of it doesn't limit people's potential.

What if there is a woman who is bigger, stronger, better decisions, more emotionally stable than you, is she more suited to lead the household then? Under your argument?

I haven't yet argued that husbands/fathers should lead their households. If and when I get around to that, it will not be based on any kind of claim that there is no woman who makes better decisions than I or is more emotionally stable or anything like that. Moreover, this is a non-issue, as such a woman would almost certainly not be attracted to me, nor I to her, and thus we would not marry and the question of who should run our mutual household affairs would be rather moot.

I think I see your point. I just interpreted what you said the wrong way.

(http://www.koanicsoul.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/tumblr_m3ayv3fYjM1r3uyl0o1_r1_1280.jpg)

I think you've got it right.
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on October 13, 2012, 01:18:48 PM
I think he's right and wrong at the same time for different reasons...  :D
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: celticfan1888 on October 13, 2012, 10:05:23 PM
I think he's right and wrong at the same time for different reasons...  :D

But you love me for it, admit it! :police: :laugh:
Title: Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
Post by: vamrat on October 16, 2012, 12:31:34 AM
I think he's right and wrong at the same time for different reasons...  :D

But you love me for it, admit it! :police: :laugh:

 :-*