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Moderated Forums => Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion => Orthodox-Catholic Discussion => Topic started by: vasily on February 02, 2012, 12:53:01 PM

Title: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: vasily on February 02, 2012, 12:53:01 PM
 I have read some of St. Thomas's Summa Theologica, and I am confused. Question: In his writings does he support the filioque addition?
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: mike on February 02, 2012, 12:54:22 PM
Why wouldn't he?
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Maria on February 02, 2012, 01:38:47 PM
I have read some of St. Thomas's Summa Theologica, and I am confused. Question: In his writings does he support the filioque addition?

Thomas Aquinas was one of several theologians who did not accept the concept of the Immaculate Conception, as it was not considered to be Catholic dogma then.

However, since he was born after the Great Schism (1054 A.D.) and the filioque was one of the main reasons for the schism between Catholics and Orthodoxy, yes, he supported the doctrine of the filioque. Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: biro on February 02, 2012, 01:45:37 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Ortho_cat on February 02, 2012, 01:50:14 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: biro on February 02, 2012, 01:52:40 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Maria on February 02, 2012, 02:45:09 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: stanley123 on February 02, 2012, 04:17:28 PM
I have read some of St. Thomas's Summa Theologica, and I am confused. Question: In his writings does he support the filioque addition?
Summa Theologica: First part. Question 36, article 2: Whether the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Son?
"...Hence also the Greeks themselves recognize that the procession of the Holy Ghost has some order to the Son. For they grant that the Holy Ghost is the Spirit "of the Son"; and that He is from the Father "through the Son." Some of them are said also to concede that "He is from the Son"; or that "He flows from the Son," but not that He proceeds..."
Thomas's exposition has to some extent been superceded by a recent document.
http://www.scoba.us/resources/orthodox-catholic/2003filioque.html
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: James2 on February 02, 2012, 04:30:36 PM
I have read some of St. Thomas's Summa Theologica, and I am confused. Question: In his writings does he support the filioque addition?

Thomas Aquinas was one of several theologians who did not accept the concept of the Immaculate Conception, as it was not considered to be Catholic dogma then.

However, since he was born after the Great Schism (1054 A.D.) and the filioque was one of the main reasons for the schism between Catholics and Orthodoxy, yes, he supported the doctrine of the filioque. Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Surely you mean the 2nd Council of Lyons (1272-1274), not the Council of Florence.
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Maria on February 02, 2012, 04:39:30 PM
I have read some of St. Thomas's Summa Theologica, and I am confused. Question: In his writings does he support the filioque addition?

Thomas Aquinas was one of several theologians who did not accept the concept of the Immaculate Conception, as it was not considered to be Catholic dogma then.

However, since he was born after the Great Schism (1054 A.D.) and the filioque was one of the main reasons for the schism between Catholics and Orthodoxy, yes, he supported the doctrine of the filioque. Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Surely you mean the 2nd Council of Lyons (1272-1274), not the Council of Florence.

Yes, you are correct as he was born in 1225 and died on 7 March 1274.
Thank you.
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: MarkosC on February 03, 2012, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Papist on February 03, 2012, 04:02:13 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.
bummer
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Maria on February 03, 2012, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: J Michael on February 03, 2012, 05:01:12 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Yes...like that they really were secret Dominicans!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just kidding!!!!  Couldn't resist it--it's Friday, and I'm gettin' punchy  ;D.
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: biro on February 03, 2012, 05:05:33 PM
The Secret Dominicans is a good name for a band.
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Maria on February 03, 2012, 05:06:12 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Yes...like that they really were secret Dominicans!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just kidding!!!!  Couldn't resist it--it's Friday, and I'm gettin' punchy  ;D.

Obviously, St. Seraphim saw the good and acknowledged it.
Pope John-Paul II mentioned St. Seraphim and St. Dominic in his book Threshold of Hope (I think it was called).
Both emitted the Holy Light of Christ from their foreheads, a foretaste of our own glorification at the Final Resurrection.
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Papist on February 03, 2012, 05:06:27 PM
The Secret Dominicans is a good name for a band.
Illuminati
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: J Michael on February 03, 2012, 05:07:20 PM
The Secret Dominicans is a good name for a band.

What type of music do they play--Russian Reggae?
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: J Michael on February 03, 2012, 05:07:43 PM
The Secret Dominicans is a good name for a band.
Illuminati

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Maria on February 03, 2012, 05:08:10 PM
The Secret Dominicans is a good name for a band.
Illuminati

Illumined
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: J Michael on February 03, 2012, 05:09:33 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Yes...like that they really were secret Dominicans!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just kidding!!!!  Couldn't resist it--it's Friday, and I'm gettin' punchy  ;D.

Obviously, St. Seraphim saw the good and acknowledged it.
Pope John-Paul II mentioned St. Seraphim and St. Dominic in his book Threshold of Hope (I think it was called).
Both emitted the Holy Light of Christ from their foreheads, a foretaste of our own glorification at the Final Resurrection.

3 of my most favorite saints, by the way.
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Schultz on February 03, 2012, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Cue a post from Stashko denouncing St. Seraphim for being a crypto-Papist.
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Papist on February 03, 2012, 05:14:13 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Cue a post from Stashko denouncing St. Seraphim for being a crypto-Papist.
One can only hope.  ;D
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: J Michael on February 03, 2012, 05:16:31 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Cue a post from Stashko denouncing St. Seraphim for being a crypto-Papist.

Be careful what you wish for  ;D ;D!

Besides, when did Papist become crypto  ;D?
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: Papist on February 03, 2012, 05:23:09 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Cue a post from Stashko denouncing St. Seraphim for being a crypto-Papist.

Be careful what you wish for  ;D ;D!

Besides, when did Papist become crypto  ;D?
Oh, I'm not. Everybody knows how I feel about pretty much everything at this point.  :D
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: J Michael on February 03, 2012, 05:28:42 PM
Quote from: Maria
Nevertheless, he was on his way to the Council of Florence to help "solve" the schism when he died.

Now I'm sad.  :'( :'(

i doubt much would have come of it either way...

Still, I can dream.  ;)

Who knows?

Perhaps he would have joined the Orthodox Church?
In fact, the Dominicans, to which St. Thomas Aquinas belonged, did send two groups of Dominican friars to the East to help "solve" the schism: one to Constantinople, and the other to Georgia. Both priories converted to Orthodoxy. The ones in Georgia were known as the white monks as they did not have the funds to buy expensive black monastic robes. St. Seraphim of Sarov adopted the white habit and the Rosary devotion from these ex-Dominicans.

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Cue a post from Stashko denouncing St. Seraphim for being a crypto-Papist.

Be careful what you wish for  ;D ;D!

Besides, when did Papist become crypto  ;D?
Oh, I'm not. Everybody knows how I feel about pretty much everything at this point.  :D

Phew!!  Had me worried for a nano-second  :D!
Title: Re: St. Thomas Aquinas-the filioque
Post by: MarkosC on February 03, 2012, 07:12:57 PM

Cool.  Is there a source for this?

Three of my Dominican professors at a Catholic university that I attended mentioned this defection. It is part of the Dominican history that they studied while undergoing the Dominican novitiate at St. Albert's Priory in Berkeley, California. Unfortunately, I did not have access to their novitiate texts. The fact that St. Seraphim of Sarov personally adopted not only the white monastic garb but also gave his nuns a form of the Dominican Rosary speaks volumes.

Thanks.  Doesn't really surprise me - there's a lot of vignettes like this in medieval/early modern history, especially in Eastern Europe, which are undiscovered or which are known only to a small group of historians.