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Moderated Forums => Free-For-All => Non-Religious Topics => Topic started by: GabrieltheCelt on January 20, 2012, 11:56:34 PM

Title: Show off your Guns!
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on January 20, 2012, 11:56:34 PM
Since there seems to be quite a few gun aficionados, I thought y'all would like to show 'em off to each other.

Here's the one I really enjoy; the Springfield Armory XD 9mm.
(http://www.handgunsforsale.net/files/handgunsforsale/images/101.jpg)

And the Remington 870 tactical 12gauge shotgun (for answering the door after 10pm)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2nEPrhgyNMA/SwyZgZfc8FI/AAAAAAAAGak/28nHWQr5wiI/s1600/Remington_870_Knoxx_Tactical_A.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on January 20, 2012, 11:59:43 PM
I thought this was going to be a thread about muscles :(   Well, carry on then...

get it? carry? har har har
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Riddikulus on January 21, 2012, 12:42:26 AM
I thought this was going to be a thread about muscles :(   

 :laugh: I thought the same!!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Iconodule on January 21, 2012, 12:45:35 AM
(http://www.sunriseimports.com.au/shop/bmz_cache/0/0f9f11c81e0e875c82db2abe289cb17e.image.320x240.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: KBN1 on January 21, 2012, 01:07:58 AM
(http://static.zoovy.com/img/zephyrsports/W413-H262-Bffffff/bb_guns/crosman/crosman_664_powermaster_pump_rifle.jpg)
Crosman Powermaster.  Very effective on beer cans.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Maximum Bob on January 21, 2012, 02:32:42 AM

And the Remington 870 tactical 12gauge shotgun (for answering the door after 10pm)


Ha ha, :laugh: my father did that once when I was young, a couple of local deputies got lost on a foggy night and stopped after midnight ask which way town was. My father had his shotgun by the bed and brought it to the door with him but kept it out of sight. When they asked there question he pulled out the shotgun, pointed toward town with it and said "that way". He said they jumped back so fast they about knocked each other over. Couldn't do that now.

Come to think of it when I was in christian college a friend and I had cap guns (back when they still made them black to look like real guns) and we pulled the red plugs out of the front of the barrels and drilled out the back of the barrels so when you fired the caps actual flames shot out the front. We then put on long coats and did a mock execution on a friend in the cafeteria. When the cap guns fired everyone stopped eating for a moment and looked around then went back to their food. No way I'd do that now either.  :-[ Boy times have changed, it was a different world back then.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on January 21, 2012, 02:35:08 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Great_Turkish_Bombard_at_Fort_Nelson.JPG/800px-Great_Turkish_Bombard_at_Fort_Nelson.JPG)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on January 21, 2012, 02:53:32 AM
Any chance y'all could show REAL guns that you ACTUALLY OWN?!?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 21, 2012, 03:18:24 AM
I don't have any pictures taken of them, except the Glock with the extended mag, but it's on my phone.  If I showed all of them, the site would crash.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on January 21, 2012, 03:21:59 AM
Any chance y'all could show REAL guns that you ACTUALLY OWN?!?

I'm afraid I sold mine to my Uncle, who wanted them to stay in the family and knew that I'd never actually use them (maybe if I had sons we'd go shooting or something, but I got two petite, girly-girl-type daughters...)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: dcommini on January 21, 2012, 05:03:36 AM
While I don't technically own this gun I did make it mine for the few minutes I shot the beautiful thing.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 21, 2012, 10:40:15 PM
^ Galil or R4?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on January 21, 2012, 11:25:55 PM
Sig Sauer SP2022 0.40 S&W

(http://cdn.armslist.com/images/posts/634370313146101876i4c1qqow.jpg)

Yugoslavian Tokarev M57 7.62x25

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t222/PALADIN85020/TOKAREV-M57-SMALL.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 12:05:28 AM
Some of mine.


First Photo: From Top, Glock 20SF 10mm, Glock 21SF .45acp, Glock 30SF .45acp, Glock 36 .45acp.

Second Photo: From Top Left to Bottom Right, Glock 20SF, Glock 36, Glock 30SF, Glock 21SF.

The Glock 21SF is my winter carry gun, the 30SF is my summer carry.  The 36 is the one I have when I have to be very descrete.  The 20 is my Field Pistol, hence the covered holster.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: FormerReformer on January 22, 2012, 12:32:30 AM

The Glock 21SF is my winter carry gun, the 30SF is my summer carry.  The 36 is the one I have when I have to be very descrete.  The 20 is my Field Pistol, hence the covered holster.

The above post reminds me of this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruuVIoN4Em4).
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Cognomen on January 22, 2012, 01:48:45 AM
The Glock 21SF is my winter carry gun, the 30SF is my summer carry.  The 36 is the one I have when I have to be very descrete.  The 20 is my Field Pistol, hence the covered holster.
The above post reminds me of this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruuVIoN4Em4).

The trigger discipline in that scene (and movies in general) makes me cringe.

Sorry I don't have pics of my actual firearms, but I've had a few. After a lot of soul searching*, I finally settled on (returned to) Glocks. Before that, my primary carry (duty) was the Sig P220 for several years:
(http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/products1/SG220R-45-B_1.jpg)
A cute G26, which I like, although still prefer the G19 size.
(http://mactec-militaryarms.com/840b_glock26.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: John Ward on January 22, 2012, 03:36:58 AM
I was going to do a post, then they asked for guns we own. I'm guessing the cannon off an F-16 doesn't count even though I work on that plane.

I do have this one back home:

(http://tgscom.com/images/sharedimages/GunSourceFrontPage/Images/EAA/EAApistol.jpg)

There's a few more I want, but that will come in time.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on January 22, 2012, 04:47:54 AM
Having grown up in the Seattle area, instead of firearms, I have my old mandatory nerdy melee weapon.

Seriously, you gotta have one here. One of our major exports is news clips of cops turning the firehoses on angry fat guys swinging around samurai swords.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: dcommini on January 22, 2012, 05:59:07 AM
^ Galil or R4?

Actually it is an M21, and not the American sniper rifle. I believe it is a Serbian version of the AK that fires a 5.56 round, made by Zastava Arms. A few british contractors had them out one day and let some of my buddies and me shoot them... pretty sweet.
Any way, here is a website with some of the statistics...  http://www.assegaitrading.co.za/zastava_weapons_assaultrif_m21_556mm.htm  (http://www.assegaitrading.co.za/zastava_weapons_assaultrif_m21_556mm.htm)

And the website for Zastava  http://www.zastava-arms.rs/  (http://www.zastava-arms.rs/)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ansgar on January 22, 2012, 06:56:06 AM
You guys are seriously scaring me!  ;)
Just out of curiosity, is it really necessary to have guns in your house?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Alpo on January 22, 2012, 07:45:05 AM
You guys are seriously scaring me!  ;)
Just out of curiosity, is it really necessary to have guns in your house?

LOL. Finns have a lot of arms since we haven't yet managed to cut our forests and hunt our wild animals to extinction but I must admit that those hand guns are a little spooky. Talk about stereotypical peace-loving Scandinavians. :P
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 08:52:55 AM
This is sick.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 01:31:44 PM
Some more.

Semi-autos are all in .380 (9mm Short) including the Makarov.  From the top, Beretta 85FS Cheetah, Mauser HSC, Makarov.  Top right revolver is a Smith and Wesson 438 Bodyguard in .38 Special +P, and the bottom left is a Smith and Wesson Model 36 Ladysmith in .38 Special +P.

The bottom photo is of my Ruger Mk III Target in .22LR.  This is my most accurate pistol, and it can produce better groups at short range than some of my rifles.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 01:40:54 PM
++++WARNING++++

HOPLOPHOBES SHOULD SKIP THIS POST as it may cause you to soil yourself.

The top weapon is a 7.62 Nato FAL type rifle made from an IMBEL Inch pattern reciever and StG-58 parts.  The front stock is a DSA for the FAL.  This will take either Inch-pattern or Metric magazines.

The second is a Ruger 10/22 in .22LR that has been modified with a .30 carbine type stock, M-16 sights, and an extended Ruger magazine.

The third is some 12 guage contraption that my youngest son built.  He builds nearly all of his long guns out of collections of various parts.

 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 01:43:36 PM
You guys are seriously scaring me!  ;)
Just out of curiosity, is it really necessary to have guns in your house?

If I took everything out of my house that was not necessary, I could live in my bathroom. And when it comes down to it, is a bathroom necessary?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on January 22, 2012, 02:24:53 PM
You guys are seriously scaring me!  ;)
Just out of curiosity, is it really necessary to have guns in your house?

yep...u never know when a horde of zombies is headed your way... ;)

in fact most of us don't just store them in our houses...we conceal/carry too... :D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on January 22, 2012, 02:26:52 PM
This is sick.

sick as in awesome!  8)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: FormerReformer on January 22, 2012, 02:30:05 PM
You guys are seriously scaring me!  ;)
Just out of curiosity, is it really necessary to have guns in your house?

Fat lot of good they'd do out of the house.

"Excuse me, person breaking into my house, while I run down to the bank, wait for it to open, and get my guns out of the safety deposit box. Oh, I see while I was talking you have already shot me. Carry on, then."
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ansgar on January 22, 2012, 02:39:05 PM
You guys are seriously scaring me!  ;)
Just out of curiosity, is it really necessary to have guns in your house?

Fat lot of good they'd do out of the house.

"Excuse me, person breaking into my house, while I run down to the bank, wait for it to open, and get my guns out of the safety deposit box. Oh, I see while I was talking you have already shot me. Carry on, then."

Maybe your right. The most dangerous thing i own is a turkish daggert, and honestly I don't think it would do me any good.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 02:53:19 PM
"Excuse me, person breaking into my house, while I run down to the bank, wait for it to open, and get my guns out of the safety deposit box. Oh, I see while I was talking you have already shot me. Carry on, then."

If it hadn't been allowed for anyone to buy guns in a supermarket no one would be shot.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on January 22, 2012, 02:54:55 PM
"Excuse me, person breaking into my house, while I run down to the bank, wait for it to open, and get my guns out of the safety deposit box. Oh, I see while I was talking you have already shot me. Carry on, then."

If it hadn't been allowed for anyone to buy guns in a supermarket no one would be shot.

criminals will always find ways to obtain firearms...not sure where a person can buy a gun in a supermarket though...
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 22, 2012, 03:04:28 PM
You guys are seriously scaring me!  ;)
Just out of curiosity, is it really necessary to have guns in your house?

LOL. Finns have a lot of arms since we haven't yet managed to cut our forests and hunt our wild animals to extinction but I must admit that those hand guns are a little spooky. Talk about stereotypical peace-loving Scandinavians. :P

Come now, your country spawned Simo Hayha, the White Death.  I figured every Finn was born with Mosin Nagant in hand!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Luke on January 22, 2012, 03:07:51 PM
(http://mirrorsoftheeverlasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2255754-old-orthodox-bible-on-linen-napkin.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 03:08:20 PM
(http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2012/01/23/7awl4k6hee.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 22, 2012, 03:15:14 PM
(http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2012/01/23/7awl4k6hee.jpg)

Au contraire, if anyone thinks the part that they are not over compensating for is a deadly weapon, they should see the doctor.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: dcommini on January 22, 2012, 03:16:26 PM
I have pictures too.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ansgar on January 22, 2012, 03:18:45 PM
(http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2012/01/23/7awl4k6hee.jpg)

You would love my country.  :)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: FormerReformer on January 22, 2012, 03:19:21 PM
"Excuse me, person breaking into my house, while I run down to the bank, wait for it to open, and get my guns out of the safety deposit box. Oh, I see while I was talking you have already shot me. Carry on, then."

If it hadn't been allowed for anyone to buy guns in a supermarket no one would be shot.

criminals will always find ways to obtain firearms...not sure where a person can buy a gun in a supermarket though...

Walmart.

Now to both- Ortho-cat is indeed right. Most criminals do not obtain their guns through legal channels. The few legally-bought firearms that are used in crimes (where the person who bought the gun is the offender, not a legally-sold gun that is then obtained through illegal means such as theft) are usually used in "crimes of passion" where any handy weapon- even the human hand- will do.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 03:22:55 PM
(where the person who bought the gun is the offender, not a legally-sold gun that is then obtained through illegal means such as theft)

I don't see a difference there. It it hadn't been bought it wouldn't had been stolen.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: FormerReformer on January 22, 2012, 03:34:35 PM
(where the person who bought the gun is the offender, not a legally-sold gun that is then obtained through illegal means such as theft)

I don't see a difference there. It it hadn't been bought it wouldn't had been stolen.

Yes, by all means, let's stop selling anything that might be stolen and used to kill people. There goes any form of knife, plank, hammer, nail, chain, concrete block, bows and arrows, electric meter, axe, post-hole digger, piano wire, guitar string, PC, laptop, paper-weight, lead pipe, rope, pipe-wrench....
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 03:42:20 PM
As guns have hundreds of useful applications besides killing such as...

OK, there is one: penile prosthesises.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: FormerReformer on January 22, 2012, 03:47:56 PM
As guns have hundreds of useful applications besides killing such as...

OK, there is one: penile prosthesises.

Plenty of useful applications besides killing- there's wounding, maiming, warning, deterring, target practice, stress relief, the aesthetic element- really, Michal, you're showing no imagination here.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 04:03:07 PM
Plenty of useful applications besides killing- there's wounding,

I always plan how to wound someone.

Quote
maiming,

"I'm a great gansta so give me your money"

Quote
warning,

"If you won't give me your money, I'll shot you"

Quote
deterring,

"Don't even try to call the police"

Quote
target practice,

"Look, it's still moving!"

Quote
stress relief,

(http://comm439sp10.csulb.wikispaces.net/file/view/gunkids.jpg/134777377/gunkids.jpg)

Relieved as...

Quote
the aesthetic element

(http://cdn0.wn.com/pd/81/02/ed07f46825fff63a5e66a1d870b1_grande.jpg)

They disagree.

Quote
you're showing no imagination here.

Really?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 04:56:08 PM
"Excuse me, person breaking into my house, while I run down to the bank, wait for it to open, and get my guns out of the safety deposit box. Oh, I see while I was talking you have already shot me. Carry on, then."

If it hadn't been allowed for anyone to buy guns in a supermarket no one would be shot.

50 years old and have lived all over this country, including the South.  I have never seen a gun for sale in a supermarket.  Is this something they do in Poland?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 05:02:15 PM


"Don't even try to call the police"

Why?  If I already have criminals in the house, why would I want to invite more?


(http://comm439sp10.csulb.wikispaces.net/file/view/gunkids.jpg/134777377/gunkids.jpg)

Cute girls.  Too bad they are too young for my sons.  At least these three looked like they were raised right.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 05:12:01 PM
50 years old and have lived all over this country, including the South.  I have never seen a gun for sale in a supermarket.  Is this something they do in Poland?

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2011/04/28/news/companies/walmart_guns/walmart-guns.gi.top.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 05:13:36 PM
Some nice ones.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 05:14:48 PM
50 years old and have lived all over this country, including the South.  I have never seen a gun for sale in a supermarket.  Is this something they do in Poland?

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2011/04/28/news/companies/walmart_guns/walmart-guns.gi.top.jpg)

Where is the food?  Besides, Walmart did not start as a Supermarket, and the Walmarts in my area that started selling food stopped selling guns.  A long time ago.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: FormerReformer on January 22, 2012, 05:22:51 PM
Plenty of useful applications besides killing- there's wounding,

I always plan how to wound someone.
Sounds like you need a good psychiatrist

maiming,

"I'm a great gansta so give me your money"
Not sure how this applies to maiming.... Though with the way "gangstas" hold their guns this is about all I'd be afraid of.

warning,

"If you won't give me your money, I'll shot you"
"My gun is bigger and my aim is better, try it."

deterring,

"Don't even try to call the police"
"I won't call the ambulance for your bleeding self, then, either."

target practice,

"Look, it's still moving!"
Shooting a fallen target less than 10' away isn't target practice, try again.

stress relief,

(http://comm439sp10.csulb.wikispaces.net/file/view/gunkids.jpg/134777377/gunkids.jpg)

Relieved as...
I sure hope their parents taught them how to use those guns. If they know the basics of gun safety, then yes, I am very relieved.

the aesthetic element

(http://cdn0.wn.com/pd/81/02/ed07f46825fff63a5e66a1d870b1_grande.jpg)

They disagree.
With the aftermath of violence, and not the aesthetics of a well-built gun itself? Rightly.

you're showing no imagination here.

Really?

Yep. Regurgitating hype is about as unimaginative as it gets.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on January 22, 2012, 05:28:37 PM
This is sick.
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTYyMzkxNjM5N15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzI2NTY0MQ@@._V1._SY317_CR3,0,214,317_.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 05:35:36 PM
warning,

"If you won't give me your money, I'll shot you"
"My gun is bigger and my aim is better, try it."

How would you be able to get it while you had his pointed at your head? Can you teleport yourself?

Quote
deterring,

"Don't even try to call the police"
"I won't call the ambulance for your bleeding self, then, either."

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bUA30KK3URM/Tp4iDqSrL4I/AAAAAAAAEr8/ZoCEqVmpHgI/s1600/icon-good-samaritan-stisaac.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 05:51:40 PM
(http://mirrorsoftheeverlasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2255754-old-orthodox-bible-on-linen-napkin.jpg)

. . . and let him who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

CZ-75B, 9mm, Stainless Steel.  Slavonic Bible opened up to somewhere in Luke.  I don't read Slavonic.  But I have punched a lot of holes in cardboard MilPark targets with that CZ.  Thousands of them.  This CZ is one of my favorite military pistols, and Luke is my favorite of the Synoptic Gospels. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ansgar on January 22, 2012, 05:53:41 PM
I think I tend to agree with Michal on this one. I fully understand the willingness to protect one's family and yourself but all this about having so many firearms in your house just sounds a little too much. Of course I can't know which situation each individual person finds himself in but couldn't it be possible to use a less dangerous method?

Maybe it's just me.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 05:57:58 PM
CZ-75B, 9mm, Stainless Steel.  Slavonic Bible opened up to somewhere in Luke.

That picture is not just stupid, but blasphemous and sacrilegious.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: FormerReformer on January 22, 2012, 05:58:34 PM
warning,

"If you won't give me your money, I'll shot you"
"My gun is bigger and my aim is better, try it."

How would you be able to get it while you had his pointed at your head? Can you teleport yourself?
If somebody manages to sneak up on me with a gun pointed at my head he deserves the money.

Quote
deterring,

"Don't even try to call the police"
"I won't call the ambulance for your bleeding self, then, either."

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bUA30KK3URM/Tp4iDqSrL4I/AAAAAAAAEr8/ZoCEqVmpHgI/s1600/icon-good-samaritan-stisaac.jpg)
[/quote]

The difference being that the injured man in the "Good Samiritan" parable was the victim of thieves (I guess they had guns, too?) and not the thief himself. You'd be better off with an icon of the repentant thief at the crucifixion to prove your point.

I'll make this simple- I don't own a gun and don't have anything worth shooting someone else over. I personally think guns are a coward's weapon.

That said, guns are a reality, the train on the anti-gun movement left the station around the invention of gun powder. To prevent law-abiding citizens from owning weapons leaves them open to victimization from criminals. Banning guns doesn't stop the black-market on weapons, and even if we managed to invent a time-machine and prevent the invention of gun-powder we'd still be having this argument over the bow and arrow and swords. People have a right to defend themselves, and in this country they have the right to do so with fire-arms, instead of leaving themselves open to anyone who disrespects all lawful authority and individual rights to property and life by choosing to behave criminally. I do not judge people for exercising the human impulse of self-defense through the ownership and use of guns, especially people with wives and children to protect.

Also, I do find guns to be aesthetically appealing- a well-made tool is always beautiful, no matter what the intent behind its creation. Thus, I like the pictures on this thread, even though I have no intent of ever using one of the objects depicted here. You can choose to find this thread appalling, if you wish, I would find a world in which this thread was not allowed to exist because only the military and criminals have guns even more so.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 05:58:58 PM
warning,

"If you won't give me your money, I'll shot you"
"My gun is bigger and my aim is better, try it."

How would you be able to get it while you had his pointed at your head? Can you teleport yourself?

Well, unlike some of the rabbit people here, I don't have to get it because it is already on me.  And because I take my own and my families defense seriously enough to not rely on someone else to be a man for me if they are attacked, I have also been trained well enough to make sure that they do not get to theirs first.  Situational awareness and all that.

Quote

Quote
deterring,

"Don't even try to call the police"
"I won't call the ambulance for your bleeding self, then, either."

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bUA30KK3URM/Tp4iDqSrL4I/AAAAAAAAEr8/ZoCEqVmpHgI/s1600/icon-good-samaritan-stisaac.jpg)

If only he would have had a gun.  
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 22, 2012, 06:06:52 PM
CZ-75B, 9mm, Stainless Steel.  Slavonic Bible opened up to somewhere in Luke.

That picture is not just stupid, but blasphemous and sacrilegious.

Where I was raised, having a Bible and a means to defend your right to read it are held on almost an equal footing.  Being too much of a coward to defend that right, and the family that God gives you, is what is blasphemous and sacrilegious.  Not all of us need our governments to do our fighting and thinking for us.  In any case, thank you for your opinion.  Perhaps if as a moderator, who should know better, you would have respected the title of this thread instead of interjecting your hoplophobic commentary, some of us would not find it necessary to express ours.  There was another thread out there for commentary, this one is for pictures.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ansgar on January 22, 2012, 06:08:05 PM
(http://mirrorsoftheeverlasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2255754-old-orthodox-bible-on-linen-napkin.jpg)

. . . and let him who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

 

For some reason, I don't think that was what Christ meant. Afterall he also said,


"for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword"
(Matthew 26:52, King James Version)

Mind you that I don't think that you are wrong for trying to protect your family, I just thought that the quote was a little misleading.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 06:14:15 PM
CZ-75B, 9mm, Stainless Steel.  Slavonic Bible opened up to somewhere in Luke.

That picture is not just stupid, but blasphemous and sacrilegious.

Where I was raised, having a Bible and a means to defend your right to read it are held on almost an equal footing.  Being too much of a coward to defend that right, and the family that God gives you, is what is blasphemous and sacrilegious.  Not all of us need our governments to do our fighting and thinking for us.  In any case, thank you for your opinion.  Perhaps if as a moderator, who should know better, you would have respected the title of this thread instead of interjecting your hoplophobic commentary, some of us would not find it necessary to express ours.  There was another thread out there for commentary, this one is for pictures.

You put a tool of murder above the Word of God.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: aboveNbeyond on January 22, 2012, 06:41:03 PM
As guns have hundreds of useful applications besides killing such as...

OK, there is one: penile prosthesises.

And women gun owners are......????
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 06:42:40 PM
It looks like women don't have any sane reasons to own guns.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: aboveNbeyond on January 22, 2012, 06:46:14 PM
It looks like women don't have any sane reasons to own guns.

Some people like to compete in shooting. 
It's also an Olympic sport.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on January 22, 2012, 06:50:04 PM
"Excuse me, person breaking into my house, while I run down to the bank, wait for it to open, and get my guns out of the safety deposit box. Oh, I see while I was talking you have already shot me. Carry on, then."

If it hadn't been allowed for anyone to buy guns in a supermarket no one would be shot.

criminals will always find ways to obtain firearms...not sure where a person can buy a gun in a supermarket though...

Walmart.

Now to both- Ortho-cat is indeed right. Most criminals do not obtain their guns through legal channels. The few legally-bought firearms that are used in crimes (where the person who bought the gun is the offender, not a legally-sold gun that is then obtained through illegal means such as theft) are usually used in "crimes of passion" where any handy weapon- even the human hand- will do.

oh, they don't sell them at our walmarts. besides, when they did a while back, they were just hunting rifles...no pistols, which are by far the most common firearm used in assaults/robberies/etc.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 22, 2012, 06:51:54 PM
It looks like women don't have any sane reasons to own guns.

Some people like to compete in shooting. 
It's also an Olympic sport.

Do they use automatic rifles?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: aboveNbeyond on January 22, 2012, 06:55:36 PM
It looks like women don't have any sane reasons to own guns.

Some people like to compete in shooting. 
It's also an Olympic sport.

Do they use automatic rifles?

Is that what you have an issue with?  Full automatic??

And NO, it's semi automatic.  One pull, one shot.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: FormerReformer on January 22, 2012, 07:14:46 PM
It looks like women don't have any sane reasons to own guns.

Some people like to compete in shooting.  
It's also an Olympic sport.

Do they use automatic rifles?

Is that what you have an issue with?  Full automatic??

And NO, it's semi automatic.  One pull, one shot.

Seeing as how the only picture we have on this thread that we can be sure is full automatic is one posted by an actual soldier, who has good reason to use full automatics, I think we can correctly infer that automatic weapons are a red-herring, and it's guns in general our friend has issue with.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on January 22, 2012, 07:25:09 PM
can we go back to pics plz? ;)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 22, 2012, 07:33:37 PM
Sure, when I can figure out how to put an image in here from off my computer.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: aboveNbeyond on January 22, 2012, 08:40:28 PM
Here..
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 22, 2012, 08:52:12 PM
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9811/0122121310jpg.jpg)

It took me a dozen attempts but I figured this thing out.  There's my home defense device. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: sprtslvr1973 on January 22, 2012, 09:23:20 PM
(http://www.sunriseimports.com.au/shop/bmz_cache/0/0f9f11c81e0e875c82db2abe289cb17e.image.320x240.jpg)
Love!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: sprtslvr1973 on January 22, 2012, 09:27:53 PM
(http://mirrorsoftheeverlasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2255754-old-orthodox-bible-on-linen-napkin.jpg)
Actually that's your sword
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: sprtslvr1973 on January 22, 2012, 09:34:16 PM
No t a big pic taker, but I will tell you that right now I have a 12 gauge Mossberg pump shotgun. In  past I have owned a 10/22 Ruger (.22 rifle), a Taurus 82 (.38 revolver) and a Charles Daly .45  1911; largely at different times.
I may or may not buy a pistol again, but as I am not a deer hunter, will probably not get another rifle; have hunted birds with shotgun, though.
Guns are one thing that I am almost entirely to completely libertarian. I thoroughly understand and re4spect people's choice not to have one, and if my living situation  was different, I would probably not keep one either. However, this should be the person's choice, not the government's
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on January 23, 2012, 03:54:26 AM
CZ-75B, 9mm, Stainless Steel.  Slavonic Bible opened up to somewhere in Luke.

That picture is not just stupid, but blasphemous and sacrilegious.

I agree.  You were correct from the start.  This is sick.   
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on January 23, 2012, 04:58:15 AM
(http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2012/01/23/7awl4k6hee.jpg)

 I didn't ask what your opinions about guns are, I asked everyone who owns one to show them off.  If you don't like guns, that's fine, but keep your whiny Euro-trash opinions to yourself, boy.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 23, 2012, 04:59:12 AM
I didn't ask what your opinions about guns are, I asked everyone who owns one to show them off.  If you don't like guns, that's fine, but keep your whiny Euro-trash opinions to yourself, boy.

Why not to start a thread with penises' pictures?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on January 23, 2012, 05:13:03 AM
(http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2012/01/23/7awl4k6hee.jpg)

 I didn't ask what your opinions about guns are, I asked everyone who owns one to show them off.  If you don't like guns, that's fine, but keep your whiny Euro-trash opinions to yourself, boy.

So disagreeing with something is now forbidden on a forum?   

For me at least, it isn't guns that I find so disturbing it is the display of them.  I know several people here who hunt, fish and use their various weapons responsibly.  They don't have their children pose with guns.  They don't photograph them on top of the Holy Scriptures.  They use them appropriately and then keep them locked up and out of sight at home.  There is no culture of glorifying them here.  I agree with Pan Michał here - the American style worship of guns is some sort of machismo thing and has nothing to do with practicality. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: doubtingthomas on January 23, 2012, 06:40:41 AM
(http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2012/01/23/7awl4k6hee.jpg)

 I didn't ask what your opinions about guns are, I asked everyone who owns one to show them off.  If you don't like guns, that's fine, but keep your whiny Euro-trash opinions to yourself, boy.

So disagreeing with something is now forbidden on a forum?   

For me at least, it isn't guns that I find so disturbing it is the display of them.  I know several people here who hunt, fish and use their various weapons responsibly.  They don't have their children pose with guns.  They don't photograph them on top of the Holy Scriptures.  They use them appropriately and then keep them locked up and out of sight at home.  There is no culture of glorifying them here.  I agree with Pan Michał here - the American style worship of guns is some sort of machismo thing and has nothing to do with practicality. 

Now, now! Not all of us American males need a firearm to be secure in our masculinity.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on January 23, 2012, 06:58:13 AM
Wow and I thought I was worried when a Southern Baptist proclaims fire and brimstone, watch out for those Orthodox!

I'd like to own a sawed off personally but...
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Alpo on January 23, 2012, 07:06:35 AM
whiny Euro-trash opinions to yourself, boy.

"Euro-trash opinions"? You know, there is 50 different and indebendent states in Europe. I doubt that disagreeing with US policy on firearms could be considered as "European". :)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on January 23, 2012, 07:15:28 AM
but keep your whiny Euro-trash opinions to yourself, boy.
Michal Kalina rocks. "Euro-trash opinions" my butt.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Iconodule on January 23, 2012, 09:09:44 AM
(http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2012/01/23/7awl4k6hee.jpg)

 I didn't ask what your opinions about guns are, I asked everyone who owns one to show them off.  If you don't like guns, that's fine, but keep your whiny Euro-trash opinions to yourself, boy.

So disagreeing with something is now forbidden on a forum?   

For me at least, it isn't guns that I find so disturbing it is the display of them.  I know several people here who hunt, fish and use their various weapons responsibly.  They don't have their children pose with guns.  They don't photograph them on top of the Holy Scriptures.  They use them appropriately and then keep them locked up and out of sight at home.  There is no culture of glorifying them here.  I agree with Pan Michał here - the American style worship of guns is some sort of machismo thing and has nothing to do with practicality. 

Here, here.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: dcommini on January 23, 2012, 09:48:48 AM
It looks like women don't have any sane reasons to own guns.

How about self defense? In the long run owning a fire arm can be cheaper than learning a self defense system that can take years to master to proper effiecency. Most rapists prey on women who are weaker than them, or at least appear to be weaker. I would rather my wife put two in the chest and one in the head of any attacker than leave my daughter with out a mother.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 23, 2012, 09:55:57 AM
What is a chance that the attacker before attacking your wife will give her some time to:
a) take a gun from the place she keeps it
b) point it at him and shoot
?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 23, 2012, 10:01:59 AM
I didn't ask what your opinions about guns are, I asked everyone who owns one to show them off.  If you don't like guns, that's fine, but keep your whiny Euro-trash opinions to yourself, boy.

Why not to start a thread with penises' pictures?

Why not?  You've mentioned them at least a couple times.  I'd suggest you start off with the Iceland Phallological Museum. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Alpo on January 23, 2012, 10:38:54 AM
I didn't ask what your opinions about guns are, I asked everyone who owns one to show them off.  If you don't like guns, that's fine, but keep your whiny Euro-trash opinions to yourself, boy.

Why not to start a thread with penises' pictures?

Why not?  You've mentioned them at least a couple times.  I'd suggest you start off with the Iceland Phallological Museum. 

ROFL. They have museum on penises and a lesbian as a prime minister. Gotta love that country.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Marc1152 on January 23, 2012, 11:42:48 AM
I knew I had gone really Far Left when I joined the NRA.

Saving up for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=OYCXcZcAs5A
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Marc1152 on January 23, 2012, 11:50:14 AM
It looks like women don't have any sane reasons to own guns.

How about self defense? In the long run owning a fire arm can be cheaper than learning a self defense system that can take years to master to proper effiecency. Most rapists prey on women who are weaker than them, or at least appear to be weaker. I would rather my wife put two in the chest and one in the head of any attacker than leave my daughter with out a mother.

 I wonder about that. I think it is very very very hard to kill someone. You really have to be pretty hard to take the top of someones head off. I think a normal person without military training would hesitate. Then the gun is taken away from her and there is hell to pay.. i really don't know. Just speculating.

If someone takes Karate they are made to be relaxed about hitting someone and being hit. It takes years of training. I think a Woman with Karate training stands better chance.

It's not the ability to fire a weapon that counts, it's what's in your head during an emergency that will determine your outcome
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 23, 2012, 12:17:15 PM
I knew I had gone really Far Left when I joined the NRA.

Saving up for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=OYCXcZcAs5A

Were you one of the crewmen?  I helped man an 1812 era ~6 pndr once up at Fort Atkinson north of town here.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on January 23, 2012, 12:24:26 PM
(http://mirrorsoftheeverlasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2255754-old-orthodox-bible-on-linen-napkin.jpg)

Amen brother.   I really like your weapon.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on January 23, 2012, 12:49:03 PM
 Mike, I want to apologize to you for insulting you.  It was uncalled for and most certainly unChristian.  Poland has a rich heritage and many wonderful traditions and I can honestly say that I would love to visit her someday.  Having said that, I would like to say that I started this thread for those of us who are either gun enthusiast's (American or not) or who maybe just have one gun that they're proud of (I have a friend who's never shot a gun but who owns a rifle that his grandfather had during WWII.  He and his grandfather were close and that rifle reminds him of all the great memories he has.  Did that type of gun ownership ever cross your mind?  I guess not.).  It was wrong of me to insult you Mike, but surely you're smart enough to have known that your poster regarding gun ownership equating over-compensation would be insulting as well?  If you didn't, well, you're not as smart as I thought you were.  All I wanted to do was start a thread that would be fun for folks who own guns as a place to post pictures of them.  I never intended for this to be a debate about gun ownership vs. non gun ownership.  For those of you who don't like guns, why not re-direct your energies to a thread topic you do like?      
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on January 23, 2012, 12:49:03 PM
As guns have hundreds of useful applications besides killing such as...

OK, there is one: penile prosthesises.

Remember killing is not forbidden in the 10 commandments, MURDER is.   It's "Thou shalt not MURDER".   Killing unfortunately is sometimes an answer.  Put your family in the following positions.

WITHOUT FIREARM - Home invasion - lady without gun & big dogs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caUlXVKfzLw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caUlXVKfzLw)

WITH FIREARM - Home invasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ26XdTPIY0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ26XdTPIY0&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiiQQP4-Ijw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiiQQP4-Ijw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvppBGNZVtg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvppBGNZVtg&feature=related)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on January 23, 2012, 12:49:16 PM
What is a chance that the attacker before attacking your wife will give her some time to:
a) take a gun from the place she keeps it
b) point it at him and shoot
?


Again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ26XdTPIY0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ26XdTPIY0&feature=related)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Marc1152 on January 23, 2012, 01:28:13 PM
I knew I had gone really Far Left when I joined the NRA.

Saving up for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=OYCXcZcAs5A

Were you one of the crewmen?  I helped man an 1812 era ~6 pndr once up at Fort Atkinson north of town here.

Nope, I'm just getting old for Infantry so it's my ambition to join an arty unit.

Expensive hobby. Every time they fire it costs $30 to $40 worth of powder. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: HabteSelassie on January 23, 2012, 01:38:04 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The Glock 21SF is my winter carry gun, the 30SF is my summer carry.  The 36 is the one I have when I have to be very descrete.  The 20 is my Field Pistol, hence the covered holster.

The above post reminds me of this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruuVIoN4Em4).

HaHa!! For real, I can't for the life of me figure out exactly what all those pistols are needed for.. ;)

(http://mirrorsoftheeverlasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2255754-old-orthodox-bible-on-linen-napkin.jpg)

(http://4imgs.com/306/x/a607_FULL.jpg)
Thank you, myself, when wandering around on foot through wild neighborhoods full of armed men and trigger happy police, the only weapon that keeps my safe and alive and delivers me (I speak from literal experience) from my enemies and those who threaten me has been my rosary.  I've owned guns before, and all guns seemed to have gotten people I know and love is shot, some dead :(

For those who breathed a bit of sanity into this thread I thank you sincerely.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 23, 2012, 01:42:00 PM
Buying a Barretta soon. To quote Boris the bullet-dodger, "If it wont shoot, you can always hit them with it....."

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 23, 2012, 01:46:59 PM
What is a chance that the attacker before attacking your wife will give her some time to:
a) take a gun from the place she keeps it
b) point it at him and shoot
?

a) should be kept in a holster on you.

b) with training, less than one second.

So, the chance is very high.  The training that I have taken spends far more time on situational awareness and avoidance than they did on actual shooting.  If you pay attention to the training, most situations unfold before you rather than take you by suprise.  If you find yourself having to react immediately, your tactics pretty much suck.  
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on January 23, 2012, 01:51:20 PM
Mike, I want to apologize to you for insulting you.  It was uncalled for and most certainly unChristian.  Poland has a rich heritage and many wonderful traditions and I can honestly say that I would love to visit her someday.  Having said that, I would like to say that I started this thread for those of us who are either gun enthusiast's (American or not) or who maybe just have one gun that they're proud of (I have a friend who's never shot a gun but who owns a rifle that his grandfather had during WWII.  He and his grandfather were close and that rifle reminds him of all the great memories he has.  Did that type of gun ownership ever cross your mind?  I guess not.).  It was wrong of me to insult you Mike, but surely you're smart enough to have known that your poster regarding gun ownership equating over-compensation would be insulting as well?  If you didn't, well, you're not as smart as I thought you were.  All I wanted to do was start a thread that would be fun for folks who own guns as a place to post pictures of them.  I never intended for this to be a debate about gun ownership vs. non gun ownership.  For those of you who don't like guns, why not re-direct your energies to a thread topic you do like?      

Well, I don't consider myself to be a Pole and I don't feel connected with the Polish heritage but I appreciate your attempt :)

I see the sense in posessing guns as memorabilia or for sport but I cannot understand a few opinions posted here.

Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders.

Secondly I don't share the belief that an average Joe Doe should posses a gun to protect his family. As Marc1152 noticed, people without experience in shooting other people and professional training won't be able to physically overpower the assaulter and force themselves to wound or shoot another man. Shooting beer cans or phantoms isn't the same thing.

Thirdly if one states he needs a gun to defend himself I don't see any reason to boast with that and inform potential assaulters on social networks or elewhere what guns one possesses and how proficient is he in using them because it will make assaulters to prepare better.

I also can't understand how you can justify with safety purposes posessing an arsenal of a dozen of different weapons. You won't be able to use more than one to defend yourself unless you are centipedes.

I am also against hunting for fun but I consider it to be less harmful than the things listed above.

I am fully aware that I insulted some of you here and I'm not proud of it. I also agree that as we won't persuade each other it is pointless for me to keep posting in this thread.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: John Ward on January 23, 2012, 01:56:47 PM
If came down to shooting someone or my family getting hurt, I'll shoot the person. It's my job to protect my family. I hope, however, that it never comes down to that.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: HabteSelassie on January 23, 2012, 02:05:38 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!





Thirdly if one states he needs a gun to defend himself I don't see any reason to boast with that and inform potential assaulters on social networks or elewhere what guns one possesses and how proficient is he in using them because it will make assaulters to prepare better.

I also can't understand how you can justify with safety purposes posessing an arsenal of a dozen of different weapons. You won't be able to use more than one to defend yourself unless you are centipedes.



(http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4de8f3dbcadcbb1d200e0000-400-300/an-all-day-pissing-contest.jpg)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 23, 2012, 02:33:24 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!





Thirdly if one states he needs a gun to defend himself I don't see any reason to boast with that and inform potential assaulters on social networks or elewhere what guns one possesses and how proficient is he in using them because it will make assaulters to prepare better.

I also can't understand how you can justify with safety purposes posessing an arsenal of a dozen of different weapons. You won't be able to use more than one to defend yourself unless you are centipedes.



(http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4de8f3dbcadcbb1d200e0000-400-300/an-all-day-pissing-contest.jpg)

stay blessed,
habte selassie

That looks like it's ready for a strafing run!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: FormerReformer on January 23, 2012, 04:35:15 PM

Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders.

Mike, this is going back to what I posted earlier- I personally detest guns and wouldn't use them to protect myself (though were I married with children that would possibly be a different story entirely) and property. That said, if a family is going to own firearms they darn well BETTER make sure their children are not only familiar with them but downright know how to use them. A gun in the house is much safer when everyone knows how to use it, not when it's "Daddy's little secret" tucked away in a closet somewhere. It's not as dangerous for the children to be familiar with the weapons as it is for them to be unfamiliar.

Quote
Thirdly if one states he needs a gun to defend himself I don't see any reason to boast with that and inform potential assaulters on social networks or elewhere what guns one possesses and how proficient is he in using them because it will make assaulters to prepare better.

The only assaulter who is going to be better prepared than Punch or Gabriel is an enemy army. And even then, that army better watch out. The types of criminals who rob and mug are cowards, they prey on the weak and vulnerable, knowing that the situation they are going into could leave them dead is a big deterrent (gangbangers are a slightly different story. In their eyes they are at war with each other and spend their lives going from confrontation to confrontation. Still, most gang shootings are quick drive-bys and crimes of opportunity, where they have rival gang members cornered or exposed. A full out guns blazing gang war like you see in the movies is very rare).
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 23, 2012, 04:47:38 PM
Quote
Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders
Actually, it does alot for the maturity of a child. Where I live most kids are very comfortable with guns and are introduced to them at an early age. There is almost never a gun accident or some kid killing his friend because of showing off a gun. However, when a kid has no clue about guns and he, with his friends run across dad's pistol.....well......we've read about that.

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: HabteSelassie on January 23, 2012, 04:52:54 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Quote
Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders
Actually, it does alot for the maturity of a child. Where I live most kids are very comfortable with guns and are introduced to them at an early age. There is almost never a gun accident or some kid killing his friend because of showing off a gun. However, when a kid has no clue about guns and he, with his friends run across dad's pistol.....well......we've read about that.

PP

Having grown up around guns I do agree with these statements. IF people chose to have guns in their homes with children, then it is a MUST that they socialize their kids around these kids, teach them how to properly hold and use them, not to turn the kids into marksmen, but rather that the kids know not to play with the gun, and if they ever do pick up a gun, they will know what to do and what not to do. There is simply NOTHING hidden in a house from an inquisitive 9 or 10 year old, if any of y'all think you are hiding anything your kids have surely fooled you well ;)



stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 23, 2012, 04:54:45 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Christ overturned tables in the Temple and asked people how they were going to save their souls from damnation; some of these comments seem to come straight out of Jesus Camp in the 1970's about love and acceptance. Christ wasn't invited by prostitutes and sinners to eat at their table, they came to Christ and ate with him. They showed repentance. They did not expect him to come to them. They turned away from their sinful lifestyle and Christ accepted them. That's the point of the story. The world is so abnormal it's difficult to distinguish right from wrong these days. Read St. John Chrysostom's Homily on Marriage for a normal view of relations between the genders. You can be loving toward your gay friends without accepting their practices or compromising faith in Christ.

Notice two things:

Christ only did this ONCE, whereas He was kind and tolerant to sinners for the rest of His 33 years on Earth, perhaps we should take this example of humility to heart.

Further, CHRIST is the one who flipped those tables, not the Apostles, not the disciples, not any other humans.  Christ can flip any tables He likes, but HE NEVER CALLED US TO DO THE SAME.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Luke 22:36

Quote
Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 23, 2012, 04:57:57 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Quote
Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders
Actually, it does alot for the maturity of a child. Where I live most kids are very comfortable with guns and are introduced to them at an early age. There is almost never a gun accident or some kid killing his friend because of showing off a gun. However, when a kid has no clue about guns and he, with his friends run across dad's pistol.....well......we've read about that.

PP

Having grown up around guns I do agree with these statements. IF people chose to have guns in their homes with children, then it is a MUST that they socialize their kids around these kids, teach them how to properly hold and use them, not to turn the kids into marksmen, but rather that the kids know not to play with the gun, and if they ever do pick up a gun, they will know what to do and what not to do. There is simply NOTHING hidden in a house from an inquisitive 9 or 10 year old, if any of y'all think you are hiding anything your kids have surely fooled you well ;)



stay blessed,
habte selassie
Exactly....my parents found that out when at the tender age of 5 I discovered what pr0n was......and some parts of the female anatomy  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: HabteSelassie on January 23, 2012, 05:15:10 PM

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Christ overturned tables in the Temple and asked people how they were going to save their souls from damnation; some of these comments seem to come straight out of Jesus Camp in the 1970's about love and acceptance. Christ wasn't invited by prostitutes and sinners to eat at their table, they came to Christ and ate with him. They showed repentance. They did not expect him to come to them. They turned away from their sinful lifestyle and Christ accepted them. That's the point of the story. The world is so abnormal it's difficult to distinguish right from wrong these days. Read St. John Chrysostom's Homily on Marriage for a normal view of relations between the genders. You can be loving toward your gay friends without accepting their practices or compromising faith in Christ.

Notice two things:

Christ only did this ONCE, whereas He was kind and tolerant to sinners for the rest of His 33 years on Earth, perhaps we should take this example of humility to heart.

Further, CHRIST is the one who flipped those tables, not the Apostles, not the disciples, not any other humans.  Christ can flip any tables He likes, but HE NEVER CALLED US TO DO THE SAME.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Luke 22:36

Quote
Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one

PP


What? you misplace this post, was it intended for the gun threads? How exactly does this fit into the context of Jesus flipping tables and not the Apostles neither ourselves?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 23, 2012, 05:17:25 PM
actually, yeah that is where it was supposed to go.

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 23, 2012, 05:26:47 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Quote
Firstly I don't understand the culture of venerating arms and people who use them, familiarizing children with them etc. IMO this is to dangerous and can result in serious accidents and some mental disorders
Actually, it does alot for the maturity of a child. Where I live most kids are very comfortable with guns and are introduced to them at an early age. There is almost never a gun accident or some kid killing his friend because of showing off a gun. However, when a kid has no clue about guns and he, with his friends run across dad's pistol.....well......we've read about that.

PP

Having grown up around guns I do agree with these statements. IF people chose to have guns in their homes with children, then it is a MUST that they socialize their kids around these kids, teach them how to properly hold and use them, not to turn the kids into marksmen, but rather that the kids know not to play with the gun, and if they ever do pick up a gun, they will know what to do and what not to do. There is simply NOTHING hidden in a house from an inquisitive 9 or 10 year old, if any of y'all think you are hiding anything your kids have surely fooled you well ;)



stay blessed,
habte selassie

In this I think most of us agree. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 23, 2012, 06:19:49 PM
Back to the original intent of this thread:

Double barrel 20 bore Howdah Pistol, percussion locks.  This one is pretty fun to shoot.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 23, 2012, 06:27:43 PM
It looks like women don't have any sane reasons to own guns.

Some people like to compete in shooting. 
It's also an Olympic sport.

Do they use automatic rifles?

Semi-automatic.  Yes.  IPSC 3-gun matches.  NRA High Power matches.  Various club matches such as bowling pin shoots.  The first centerfire semi-auto rifle that I owned was for use in bowling pin shoots.  The first semi-auto pistols that I owned were for use in IPSC and IDPA matches.  At the time, I carried revolvers for self defense.  Most of the guys that shot NRA Bullseye matches when I lived in Wisconsin used semi-auto pistols for the .45 cal class and the .22 rimfire class.  I was unusual in that I used revolvers for all three.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on January 23, 2012, 07:10:56 PM
(http://mirrorsoftheeverlasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2255754-old-orthodox-bible-on-linen-napkin.jpg)
Pistol:

(https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4Qa7Ro-UjCqzfKvWl7bq70SnxFEDefFjIri_X52r4Y8zilBa6bA)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on January 24, 2012, 03:54:27 AM
A agree in many cases that the scriptures are the best defense.   If you are a monk or nun, or single layman, I could understand the detest at any types of guns.

As a family man, who has a wife and 5 children, I would never go without a gun.  It is my responsibility who has been blessed with the stewardship of raising the souls of these children to protect them at all costs.     My eldest kids know how to shoot well and know gun safety.  In fact our eldest daughter's nickname is "Little Annie Oakley". (she is a crack shot to the likes I've never seen before).

I believe as Christians, we are to practice non-resistance to most degrees.

However in Luke 12:39 we read - 39 But know this, that if the owner of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: MrJim on January 24, 2012, 04:59:40 PM
Like others I don't have photos handy~as a former US Marine I'm a bit of a gun guy.  My collection includes:

S&W Model 60 .38 (daily carry gun)
Ruger MkII .22 (5.5" SS)
Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag (5.5" SS)
Marlin 1894 Lever .44 Mag
Beretta 92FS 9mm
Beretta 3032 .32 ACP
T/C Contender (.22 & .357 barrels)

Here in PA "open carry" is allowed but I err on the side of discretion and keep it covered...I've been carrying since the mid 90/s, not long after my first son was born.  My background includes time spent with the mennonites so I have a "nonresistant" background but for some reason fatherhood seemed to increase my responsibilities to defending the defenseless...

I've been lurking for awhile~guess this is my first post...greetings, especially to my TAW brothers & sisters :)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: LizaSymonenko on January 24, 2012, 05:07:59 PM

I don't own a gun, and don't feel I need one.  I think I would get myself in to more trouble with it than without.  But, that's just me.

However, many folks around me go hunting, and own firearms.  As long as they know how to use it, and use it responsibly more power to them.  I would probably be happy to have neighbors with guns, if we were attacked by rabid dogs or something.

However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 24, 2012, 05:08:54 PM
Like others I don't have photos handy~as a former US Marine I'm a bit of a gun guy.  My collection includes:

S&W Model 60 .38 (daily carry gun)
Ruger MkII .22 (5.5" SS)
Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag (5.5" SS)
Marlin 1894 Lever .44 Mag
Beretta 92FS 9mm
Beretta 3032 .32 ACP
T/C Contender (.22 & .357 barrels)

Here in PA "open carry" is allowed but I err on the side of discretion and keep it covered...I've been carrying since the mid 90/s, not long after my first son was born.  My background includes time spent with the mennonites so I have a "nonresistant" background but for some reason fatherhood seemed to increase my responsibilities to defending the defenseless...

I've been lurking for awhile~guess this is my first post...greetings, especially to my TAW brothers & sisters :)

Nice. be careful mate. I know where Im at, there is open carry, but if your shirt happens to fall over it and you're in public, you gotta have a conceal license or you go bye bye.

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: MrJim on January 24, 2012, 07:33:12 PM
Like others I don't have photos handy~as a former US Marine I'm a bit of a gun guy.  My collection includes:

S&W Model 60 .38 (daily carry gun)
Ruger MkII .22 (5.5" SS)
Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag (5.5" SS)
Marlin 1894 Lever .44 Mag
Beretta 92FS 9mm
Beretta 3032 .32 ACP
T/C Contender (.22 & .357 barrels)

Here in PA "open carry" is allowed but I err on the side of discretion and keep it covered...I've been carrying since the mid 90/s, not long after my first son was born.  My background includes time spent with the mennonites so I have a "nonresistant" background but for some reason fatherhood seemed to increase my responsibilities to defending the defenseless...

I've been lurking for awhile~guess this is my first post...greetings, especially to my TAW brothers & sisters :)

Nice. be careful mate. I know where Im at, there is open carry, but if your shirt happens to fall over it and you're in public, you gotta have a conceal license or you go bye bye.

PP

I've had permit/license to carry since the mid 90/s~~you're right though.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Maximum Bob on January 24, 2012, 09:01:34 PM
Like others I don't have photos handy~as a former US Marine I'm a bit of a gun guy.  My collection includes:

S&W Model 60 .38 (daily carry gun)
Ruger MkII .22 (5.5" SS)
Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag (5.5" SS)
Marlin 1894 Lever .44 Mag
Beretta 92FS 9mm
Beretta 3032 .32 ACP
T/C Contender (.22 & .357 barrels)

Here in PA "open carry" is allowed but I err on the side of discretion and keep it covered...I've been carrying since the mid 90/s, not long after my first son was born.  My background includes time spent with the mennonites so I have a "nonresistant" background but for some reason fatherhood seemed to increase my responsibilities to defending the defenseless...

I've been lurking for awhile~guess this is my first post...greetings, especially to my TAW brothers & sisters :)

Welcome to the open air MrJim, nice to meet you.  :)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 24, 2012, 09:09:43 PM

However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?


What does the operating system have to do with need?  Do you have specific knowledge to back up your thoughts or are you just regurgitating what you have heard on TV?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on January 24, 2012, 09:17:02 PM
Maybe she has her own opinion, which may not be the same as yours. Go figure!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 25, 2012, 10:25:19 AM
Maybe she has her own opinion, which may not be the same as yours. Go figure!

Sometimes people's opinions affect other people's lives (voting and governance come to mind).  This is one of those issues where someone with an opinion can affect other people's rights.  If Liza never votes on any issue regarding firearms then it is a harmless opinion and should be taken as that.  If she votes regarding this issue then it should be other people's right to try and challenge or change her opinion through reasoned debate - democracy in action.

So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?

As for your questions, Liza, soldiers generally do not get to keep their weapons. If they supplier their own sidearm I don't see why they would not be allowed to, but more often than not, their issued weapons go back to Uncle Sam or are sold off to third world nations after their time is complete.  

Also, keep in mind that modern insurgencies are not won by fully-automatic rifles, but by sniper rifles and bombs.  "Assault" Rifles are mostly for curiosity.  In fact, Assault Rifle ownership in the US is very low.  By definition, assault rifles are chambered in an intermediate caliber and have select fire.  Most civilian "assault rifles" are actually semi-automatic carbines converted from existing assault rifles.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 25, 2012, 10:38:23 AM
Quote
So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?
So true....I mean really, how silly is this quote:

"Ya know, these people in the mall are lucky that this rifle is a semi-automatic or I'd kill them all....instead Im going to Baskin Robins......"

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 25, 2012, 10:50:13 AM
Quote
So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?
So true....I mean really, how silly is this quote:

"Ya know, these people in the mall are lucky that this rifle is a semi-automatic or I'd kill them all....instead Im going to Baskin Robins......"

PP

In actuality, if the rifle was full auto they'd probably kill less.  Auto dumps the mag too quickly.   ;)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 25, 2012, 10:59:15 AM
Quote
So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?
So true....I mean really, how silly is this quote:

"Ya know, these people in the mall are lucky that this rifle is a semi-automatic or I'd kill them all....instead Im going to Baskin Robins......"

PP

In actuality, if the rifle was full auto they'd probably kill less.  Auto dumps the mag too quickly.   ;)
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: LizaSymonenko on January 25, 2012, 01:14:07 PM

However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?


What does the operating system have to do with need?  Do you have specific knowledge to back up your thoughts or are you just regurgitating what you have heard on TV?

What's with the attitude?  I was just asking a question.  When have you known me to simply regurgitate what I hear on TV?  I hardly even watch TV!

I have never claimed to be a firearms expert, however, from what little I think I know....rifles can be used for hunting animals for food, target practice, etc.  Semi and automatic weapons are geared for destruction of human life.

Am I wrong?

If I am not wrong, why would anyone in America (other than the armed forces and security personnel) need a weapon of that caliber?

I'm just asking....give me a polite answer.  I have enough people snipping at me at work, I don't need you giving me attitude, too.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on January 25, 2012, 01:22:29 PM

However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?


What does the operating system have to do with need?  Do you have specific knowledge to back up your thoughts or are you just regurgitating what you have heard on TV?

What's with the attitude?  I was just asking a question.  When have you known me to simply regurgitate what I hear on TV?  I hardly even watch TV!

I have never claimed to be a firearms expert, however, from what little I think I know....rifles can be used for hunting animals for food, target practice, etc.  Semi and automatic weapons are geared for destruction of human life.

Am I wrong?

If I am not wrong, why would anyone in America (other than the armed forces and security personnel) need a weapon of that caliber?
I'm just asking....give me a polite answer.  I have enough people snipping at me at work, I don't need you giving me attitude, too.



zombie invasion.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on January 25, 2012, 02:13:28 PM
Quote
So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?
So true....I mean really, how silly is this quote:

"Ya know, these people in the mall are lucky that this rifle is a semi-automatic or I'd kill them all....instead Im going to Baskin Robins......"

PP

Then why aren't we all dead already?

Why do I hear on the news about people shooting up a mall or an office, and it's either the cops respond, or nobody does and the killer shoots himself? Why do I never hear about some clever fellow popping up and saying "I'll save you!" and shooting the criminal with a gun fresh from the cabinet at home?

Oh, because there's already a bunch of people whom I pay to tote guns and keep me safe: the police.

Let me know when every Tom, Dick and Harry is actually going to do that. Until then, keep your fantasies.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 25, 2012, 02:24:39 PM
Quote
Why do I hear on the news about people shooting up a mall or an office, and it's either the cops respond, or nobody does and the killer shoots himself? Why do I never hear about some clever fellow popping up and saying "I'll save you!" and shooting the criminal with a gun fresh from the cabinet at home?
because in most areas (like my work) even you are legally able to carry a firearm, you can not enter the premises with it. BTW it happens quite a bit that someone takes down the offender.

Quote
Oh, because there's already a bunch of people whom I pay to tote guns and keep me safe: the police
When every second counts, the police are only minutes away.....

Quote
t me know when every Tom, Dick and Harry is actually going to do that. Until then, keep your fantasies
If Tom, Dick, and harry were allowed to exercise their constitutional rights, my fantasy would be a reality.

note: in Virginia, you may openly carry (can not be concealed in any way, even by a shirt) with no license or going through scrutiny (except however, criminal background check, and also a psychological questionnaire). How many last year got mugged? 0. Thats right, not a single one. Violent crime?  Infact, when guns were allowed into bars in the state, every gun control advocate screamed that bars and restaurants would turn into shooting galleries. What happened? immidately a 5% drop in crime at these establishments.


Another fact, if you will:

More than 200 permit holders were also convicted of gun- or weapon-related felonies or misdemeanors, including roughly 60 who committed weapon-related assaults." That's a dozen gun assaults a year. How many permit holders are there in North Carolina? More than 240,000. So 0.2 percent of them are convicted of a non-traffic-related offense each year, about 0.017 percent are convicted of a felony, and only 0.005 percent are convicted of a gun assault
(http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/legal-concealed-gun-carriers-are-quite-law-abiding - which sites a ny times story)

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 25, 2012, 02:29:49 PM
Quote
So Liza, (and Biro, you are more than welcome to chime in as well), I'd be interested to know what the operating system has to do with the necessity of the rifle?  Do you think that delayed blowback and direct blowback should also be discussed?  If you believe that only manual actions should be necessary, should it be limited to bolt action or rolling block, or are rapid firing lever actions also acceptable?
So true....I mean really, how silly is this quote:

"Ya know, these people in the mall are lucky that this rifle is a semi-automatic or I'd kill them all....instead Im going to Baskin Robins......"

PP

 

In actuality, if the rifle was full auto they'd probably kill less.  Auto dumps the mag too quickly.   ;)

QFT

I know this first hand from firing several full automatic and select fire weapons.  They used to hold falling plate matches in Wisconsin during the 1980's, and I remember a fellow who entered with his Thompson SMG.  The guys with the 1911's beat him every time.  EVERY time!.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 25, 2012, 02:48:25 PM

However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?


What does the operating system have to do with need?  Do you have specific knowledge to back up your thoughts or are you just regurgitating what you have heard on TV?

What's with the attitude?  I was just asking a question.  When have you known me to simply regurgitate what I hear on TV?  I hardly even watch TV!

I have never claimed to be a firearms expert, however, from what little I think I know....rifles can be used for hunting animals for food, target practice, etc.  Semi and automatic weapons are geared for destruction of human life.

Am I wrong?

If I am not wrong, why would anyone in America (other than the armed forces and security personnel) need a weapon of that caliber?

I'm just asking....give me a polite answer.  I have enough people snipping at me at work, I don't need you giving me attitude, too.



Yes.  The bolt action Mauser rifle has probably killed more people in combat than any other.  If you study the Cuban revolution, you will see that Castro himself preferred the bolt action over the semi-auto.  People using a bolt action or single shot usually know how to hit what they shoot with one shot.  Even our military snipers use bolt action weapons in warfare (most of them).  If you want to reach out and touch your target, a semi-auto is not always the best weapon to use.  Of course, there are exceptions such as the excellent Dragunov rifle, and accurized M-14 Springfields (and M-1A rifles).

And caliber refers to the diameter of the bore, not the type of action.  Most hunting weapons are far larger than the current military weapons, which I would not use for hunting anything larger than dogs.  The older 7.62 Nato caliber weapons like my FAL are another matter.  Still not as powerful as a .300 Magnum, 416 Rigby or .500 Nitro Express.

As to semi-automatic hunting and target weapons, there are many.  Most purpose designed hunting semi-autos have NO military use or application.  The current BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) is a premium hunting arm that would not survive the rigors of war.  Remington also makes a semi-automatic hunting rifle.  Semi-automatic shotguns are extremely common both in the field and on trap and skeet ranges.  Semi-automatic pistols are the norm when it comes to competition of nearly any kind other than silhouette shooting.

Nearly all rifles used, and which are useful, for military application are selective fire - not semi-automatic.  The exception to this would be the remaining FAL rifles that were produced semi-auto only because experience with the selective fire ones showed them to be uncontrollable in full auto.  This has not always been true, but it is the current standard.

Are there weapons out there solely made for killing people?  You bet there are.  But, so what.  Most of us who own firearms also believe that it is our right to defend ourselves from predators, human and animal.  And those of us who believe in the Second Amendment of our Constitution consider any weapon suitable for police work to be suitable for self defense.  This brings in weapons such as the AR-15, AK-47 and AK-74 which are primarily designed to kill people.  However, even these are MOSTLY used, in the US at least, for sporting purposes.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 25, 2012, 02:59:15 PM

Why do I hear on the news about people shooting up a mall or an office, and it's either the cops respond, or nobody does and the killer shoots himself? Why do I never hear about some clever fellow popping up and saying "I'll save you!" and shooting the criminal with a gun fresh from the cabinet at home?


Because I carry my gun to protect me, not to protect you.  If you care so little about your life that you trust some other yahoo to protect it, I sure as heck am not going to risk my life for it.  I protect what is valuable to me.  People who will not help themselves are of no value to me.  I gave this talk to a group of people after the Von Maur shooting.  Some of them now carry firearms, too.  To date, nobody issued a Nebraska CHP has been the victim of a crime while they were carrying (at least not that I know of).  That is the statistic that I count.  How many crimes they have prevented against others is of no value to me because, as you stated, it is the job of the police to protect the sheep.

As to the last clause of your statement, it does not make sense.  But then again, neither do any of your anti-gun arguments.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: LizaSymonenko on January 25, 2012, 03:19:18 PM

Punch, I know you were talking to Biro, however, I hope you don't consider me "anti-gun".  I'm not. 

However, I know a few folks at work who brag about their AK-47's.  If you knew the people, you would be worried that they own them.....and regularly target practice off their balcony in a densely populated subdivision environment.

These are the same people who drive a bright yellow Hummer, only so they can brag they've got the biggest car in the parking lot.

It's not so much the guns that bother me, as who owns them and for what reasons.

....and as for your above comment about using your gun to only protect yourself and your loved ones....well, that's not very Christian of you.  What about taking care of your neighbors?  :) 

Heroes are usually those who step up when there's a need, whether they know the people or not.


Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on January 25, 2012, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: Punch
Because I carry my gun to protect me, not to protect you.

That says a lot.

Well, I don't have something against the cops; that seems to be the difference. My grandfather and many of my cousins were police officers for a number of years. I respect them.

I respect the law. I don't think it's necessary to repeal the Second Amendment. I do think it's necessary to have a well-regulated milita... which is only going by the Bill of Rights.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 25, 2012, 04:15:02 PM
Quote
However, I know a few folks at work who brag about their AK-47's.  If you knew the people, you would be worried that they own them.....and regularly target practice off their balcony in a densely populated subdivision environment.
Then these people have bigger problems than guns, your police are inept. You cant shoot guns in a sub division.

Quote
t's not so much the guns that bother me, as who owns them and for what reasons
For every "few" people that are like the above, there are thousands, perhaps millions that dont.
Quote
and as for your above comment about using your gun to only protect yourself and your loved ones....well, that's not very Christian of you.  What about taking care of your neighbors?
I understand what he originally said. Im not going to buy a gun for the reason of defending the world, or even my neighbor. If someone breaks into his house, I wont be awakened by it. Using glib responses doesn't do much.

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: FormerReformer on January 25, 2012, 04:17:09 PM
Quote from: Punch
Because I carry my gun to protect me, not to protect you.

That says a lot.

Well, I don't have something against the cops; that seems to be the difference. My grandfather and many of my cousins were police officers for a number of years. I respect them.

I respect the law. I don't think it's necessary to repeal the Second Amendment. I do think it's necessary to have a well-regulated milita... which is only going by the Bill of Rights.

Not everyone who advocates gun ownership for protection has "something against cops". The reality is that police are mainly useful after a crime, to investigate and capture, or useful at preventing crime by patrolling often through neighborhoods. Unless the crime takes a long time to commit or happens to be happening at the exact time they pass by there is a certain physical impossibility in them stopping that crime. That's not disrespectful to police, unless acknowledging our police officers do not happen to get shipped here from an exploding alien planet and raised by a kindly couple in Kansas is some form of disrespect.

(As a disclaimer- I do have something against cops. Living in Chicago for a decade will do that. The police in Chicago manage to shoot more innocent people each year than gang-bangers- how messed up is that?)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: MrJim on January 25, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Just got back from the range~fired the rifle for the first time.  It doesn't like the semi-wadcutters (wouldn't cycle) but 3 different kinds of jacketed round worked fine~got to get a better front sight on it.

I was there with a couple that had bought their first handguns and they had a terrific time, and they bought quality (SIG and S&W w/laser) and they had no problems and kept their shots in the zone...afterwards we had lunch and they were headed to the sheriff's office to apply for their carry licenses :)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on January 25, 2012, 04:21:10 PM
Well, certain posters on this thread have said very disrespectful things about the police before. Don't put words in my post that weren't there, and don't skim over what people say that is inconvenient for you.

I don't call the person next door when I'm in trouble. I call the police. If you don't like that, sorry- and start a petition to close all the departments and get all our tax money back. If the average Joe with a gun is the best person to defend you, why are you and I paying for a local PD at all?

People should be consistent.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: MrJim on January 25, 2012, 04:22:23 PM
Quote from: Punch
Because I carry my gun to protect me, not to protect you.

That says a lot.

Well, I don't have something against the cops; that seems to be the difference. My grandfather and many of my cousins were police officers for a number of years. I respect them.

I respect the law. I don't think it's necessary to repeal the Second Amendment. I do think it's necessary to have a well-regulated milita... which is only going by the Bill of Rights.

Not everyone who advocates gun ownership for protection has "something against cops". The reality is that police are mainly useful after a crime, to investigate and capture, or useful at preventing crime by patrolling often through neighborhoods. Unless the crime takes a long time to commit or happens to be happening at the exact time they pass by there is a certain physical impossibility in them stopping that crime. That's not disrespectful to police, unless acknowledging our police officers do not happen to get shipped here from an exploding alien planet and raised by a kindly couple in Kansas is some form of disrespect.

(As a disclaimer- I do have something against cops. Living in Chicago for a decade will do that. The police in Chicago manage to shoot more innocent people each year than gang-bangers- how messed up is that?)

When asked "why do you carry a gun" a fellow responded:  "Because a cop is too heavy to carry" :D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 25, 2012, 04:23:20 PM
As was said before, the cops are good after or before the crime. usually the deed is done by the time the cops get there. Its nothing against them, but its fact.

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on January 25, 2012, 04:25:06 PM
I guess I'm outnumbered. Better go get lots of guns. Then people will like me.

Oh wait, I'm late for the puppy-kicking party.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on January 25, 2012, 04:26:29 PM
I guess I'm outnumbered. Better go get lots of guns. Then people will like me.

Oh wait, I'm late for the puppy-kicking party.

They don't kick puppies today--that's Friday. Today is the day they put kittens in burlap bags and throw them in a lake.  :police:
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 25, 2012, 04:26:44 PM
Quote
I guess I'm outnumbered. Better go get lots of guns. Then people will like me.
www.cheaperthandirt.com (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com)

Its a gun website...sorry for the naked link

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: HabteSelassie on January 25, 2012, 04:28:38 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I guess I'm outnumbered. Better go get lots of guns. Then people will like me.

Oh wait, I'm late for the puppy-kicking party.

They don't kick puppies today--that's Friday. Today is the day they put kittens in burlap bags and throw them in a lake.  :police:

Are these folks choosing these days purposefully as commemorative for the Fasting days of Wednesday or Friday, or the opposite, intentionally sacrilegious ;)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on January 25, 2012, 04:31:30 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I guess I'm outnumbered. Better go get lots of guns. Then people will like me.

Oh wait, I'm late for the puppy-kicking party.

They don't kick puppies today--that's Friday. Today is the day they put kittens in burlap bags and throw them in a lake.  :police:

Are these folks choosing these days purposefully as commemorative for the Fasting days of Wednesday or Friday, or the opposite, intentionally sacrilegious ;)

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Another mystery of Orthodoxy!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 25, 2012, 04:49:47 PM
Well, certain posters on this thread have said very disrespectful things about the police before. Don't put words in my post that weren't there, and don't skim over what people say that is inconvenient for you.

I don't call the person next door when I'm in trouble. I call the police. If you don't like that, sorry- and start a petition to close all the departments and get all our tax money back. If the average Joe with a gun is the best person to defend you, why are you and I paying for a local PD at all?

People should be consistent.

I think you are exaggerating a bit.  This hyperbole isn't helping your argument, either.  I'm not sure what other posters have said about the police in other parts of the forum, but I know what has been said on this thread and you are not representing any of these posters accurately. 

No one has stated that all police departments should be closed.  They are only pointing out that you need to be responsible for your own safety.  The courts have stated that the Police are not there to protect you as an individual.  They are there to maintain public order.  For example, if you were to be a member of a protest the police would be there to make sure you did no harm to city property.  Now, if you happen to get murdered, raped, or robbed, you cannot sue the police for failing to stop it.  In Nebraska, in two of those instances you would be permitted to defend yourself with lethal force.  In the third instance if the attacker was armed you'd have a pretty good case as well. 

What it boils down to is, you pay taxes to maintain a police department because if you stopped paying taxes those very police would arrest you and dispossess you of your liberty and property.  The reason I spent the money to buy, learn how to use, and get a permit to carry a gun is so that I have some means of defense if, God forbid, it ever come to that. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on January 25, 2012, 04:52:51 PM
Quote
I think you are exaggerating a bit.  This hyperbole isn't helping your argument, either.  I'm not sure what other posters have said about the police in other parts of the forum, but I know what has been said on this thread and you are not representing any of these posters accurately. 

No one has stated that all police departments should be closed.  They are only pointing out that you need to be responsible for your own safety.  The courts have stated that the Police are not there to protect you as an individual.  They are there to maintain public order.  For example, if you were to be a member of a protest the police would be there to make sure you did no harm to city property.  Now, if you happen to get murdered, raped, or robbed, you cannot sue the police for failing to stop it.  In Nebraska, in two of those instances you would be permitted to defend yourself with lethal force.  In the third instance if the attacker was armed you'd have a pretty good case as well. 

What it boils down to is, you pay taxes to maintain a police department because if you stopped paying taxes those very police would arrest you and dispossess you of your liberty and property.  The reason I spent the money to buy, learn how to use, and get a permit to carry a gun is so that I have some means of defense if, God forbid, it ever come to that
Well stated Vam.

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on January 25, 2012, 05:00:19 PM
I fold. Can't butt my head against a wall forever. I guess sarcasm is only okay for some folks.

All you have to do to find the quotes about the police is look at the threads about guns. I won't name the posters now because I don't want to get banned. I may be close enough already.

Guess I'm not enough of a certain political stripe to fit in. Funny, I thought I had rights too. I was born and raised in the U.S. and I have worked and paid taxes since I was 16. Too bad it was all for naught.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: LizaSymonenko on January 25, 2012, 05:09:49 PM

Biro, you won't get banned, you haven't even been warned, yet!  :)

Don't take it so personally.  Some people you can get along with and some you just can't....on this topic.

Tomorrow, you and they will be on the same side again, in defense of another topic.

Shake it off and move on.

Believe me, no matter what they have said, I am certain that they WOULD defend their neighbor if the neighbor needed to be defended - without a doubt!

They are all good people. 

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on January 25, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
I am sure, Liza. Thank you.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 25, 2012, 05:48:35 PM
I fold. Can't butt my head against a wall forever. I guess sarcasm is only okay for some folks.

All you have to do to find the quotes about the police is look at the threads about guns. I won't name the posters now because I don't want to get banned. I may be close enough already.

Guess I'm not enough of a certain political stripe to fit in. Funny, I thought I had rights too. I was born and raised in the U.S. and I have worked and paid taxes since I was 16. Too bad it was all for naught.

When you butt heads with a wall, the wall usually wins!   ;)  The problem with sarcasm is that no one can hear the tone of your voice, only see the words you have written.  This is a serious matter to many folks so your words have been taken seriously.  Like Liza pointed out, you'll not get banned for disagreeing, and I'm sure (though I can only speak for myself) no one hates you over it.  But there are several of us who disagree with you.  The same right you have to voice your opinions gives us our right to debate your opinions through reasoned discourse.  Such is the nature of debate.  The reason that this issue is so heated for many on the other side of the aisle is that no one of us is threatening your rights in this matter.  In fact, we are arguing for your rights, regardless of whether you wish to exercise them or not.  This is not true for the other perspective.  Many people who express opinions similar to yours would like to see other people's rights revoked or restricted.  So if you think some of us are being very defensive about this issue...well, we are.

Hopefully this helps clear things up, and helps us understand one another.   :)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on January 25, 2012, 06:06:40 PM
Well, no. But thank you.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on January 25, 2012, 06:42:30 PM
The early church only had access to polearms, spears, swords, clubs, maces, axes, bows/arrows, slings and basic siege weaponry. The innovations I've seen here disgust me.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 25, 2012, 06:51:57 PM
The early church only had access to polearms, spears, swords, clubs, maces, axes, bows/arrows, slings and basic siege weaponry. The innovations I've seen here disgust me.

They also didn't have flush toilets or motorized transport.  I personally don't like feces floating down the streets and I'll bet my Taurus gets better mileage than it's namesake.  I own a rapier, but the Glock is so much more practical.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on January 25, 2012, 07:15:26 PM
I fold. Can't butt my head against a wall forever. I guess sarcasm is only okay for some folks.

All you have to do to find the quotes about the police is look at the threads about guns. I won't name the posters now because I don't want to get banned. I may be close enough already.

Guess I'm not enough of a certain political stripe to fit in. Funny, I thought I had rights too. I was born and raised in the U.S. and I have worked and paid taxes since I was 16. Too bad it was all for naught.

When you butt heads with a wall, the wall usually wins!   ;)  The problem with sarcasm is that no one can hear the tone of your voice, only see the words you have written.  This is a serious matter to many folks so your words have been taken seriously.  Like Liza pointed out, you'll not get banned for disagreeing, and I'm sure (though I can only speak for myself) no one hates you over it.  But there are several of us who disagree with you.  The same right you have to voice your opinions gives us our right to debate your opinions through reasoned discourse.  Such is the nature of debate.  The reason that this issue is so heated for many on the other side of the aisle is that no one of us is threatening your rights in this matter.  In fact, we are arguing for your rights, regardless of whether you wish to exercise them or not.  This is not true for the other perspective.  Many people who express opinions similar to yours would like to see other people's rights revoked or restricted.  So if you think some of us are being very defensive about this issue...well, we are.

Hopefully this helps clear things up, and helps us understand one another.   :)

Well put!

There are several things that really should be pointed out:

1) I do not like police.  That comes from living in a city where the police are of no use in preventing crime, and of only marginal use in solving crimes already committed.  Will I dial 911?  Sure, and I have.  The shortest response time EVER was around 5 minutes.  Activation of the panic alarm on my Security System took 20 minutes.  I don't use the Security System anymore, and I can solve most tactical problems that I may encounter in far less than 5 minutes.  In fact, if I have not solved them in 3 seconds, I am probably dead.

2) In spite of #1 above, I do not HATE police.  In fact, I happen to like Sheriffs Deputies and have had good contacts with the State Police (who issued me my CHP).  Also, in spite of #1 above, not all police fit in the category that I mentioned.  In fact, ALL of my trainers were policemen from the Omaha PD.

3) I do not dislike people that do not like guns.  I dislike people who think that I should not be allowed to have them because they dislike them.

4) I respect the well thought out opinions of those that have actually taken the time to study the issue of private ownership of firearms, and express their opinions based on this study.  Most who do an honest study of the facts will moderate their anti-gun position.  Also, most that do an HONEST study of the fact will also find themselves in favor of some forms of gun control, including rabid pro-2A people like me.

5) The hostility that I have displayed in some of my posts here do not come from people's opinions.  There was a thread for opinions.  My hostility is for those who trash a thread that was supposed to be for people who like guns to show off their guns.  Instead, we get people who do not see the rudeness in their actions, yet whine and complain that people treat them poorly for their rudeness.  Vamrat is correct about our defensiveness.  We gun owners do not kick your doors down and thrust guns into your hands.  Many of us, like me, actually prefer concealed carry so that being armed does not upset those who are more timid around me.  I regularly speak against open carry on gun forums, and am called some pretty nasty names because of it.  However, just like those who have trashed this thread, the anti-gunners have no trouble trying to force their "opinions" on those who specifically did not ask for them.  It speaks volumes to us as to what kind of people you are.  Just like you have ruined this thread, you would also ruin our rights if you were given the opportunity.

6) As to "Christian Duty" to defend someone: I will always stand up for the innocent.  I will not, however, put my life at risk for someone who intentionally and willfully puts themselves in a position of danger.  Some people CANNOT defend themselves, and if I am placed in a position to assist them, I will.  However, most people who are victims of a crime are intentional victims.  They are victims due to their own negligence and stupidity.  I feel no obligation to defend such a person.  As I said before, if your life is worth so little to you that you will not do what is necessary to defend it, why should I risk mine for yours?  I consider myself a productive member of society, and I have people both inside and outside of my family that depend on me for various things.  I stay alive for that reason.  Since you have nothing of value to live for, at least not of enough value for you to protect, why should I value you?  I am sorry if this upsets you.  If you were here, I would hand you a tissue.

7) There is another very valid reason that some of us will not come to your aid.  Who is the bad guy?  When I am being attacked, I KNOW who the bad guys is.  When I see a fight between you and someone else, all I know is that there are two people fighting.  I was involved in a situation once myself where all was not what it appeared.  A rather large man was carrying a younger girl out of a house over his shoulder while she was kicking and screaming to get away.  He thrust her rather roughly into a van and then proceeded to get in himself.  Nebraska State Law allows me to use deadly force to prevent a kidnapping.  If I were the Rambo that some think that gun owners are, I would have shot him dead on the spot.  Thankfully, I did what I was trained to do and took down all of the pertainant information.  I ran into a Deputy at a gas station a block down the road and told him what happened.  The man was the autistic girl's father, and he was taking her to some form of therapy that she really did not like.  This was a usual spectacle for that small town.  I had never seen it before.  Had I gotten out of my car and brandished a weapon, I would have been guilty of a Class III Felony.  Had I shot him, it would have been murder.  And no, I am not going to ask someone 20 questions if I think they are committing a crime.  That is a real good way to get killed, and I don't intend to get killed by curiosity.

8) Nobody has said NOT to call the police when they are in trouble.  If someone is kicking your door down, by all means call the police.  If you have an armed neighbor that you wish to call, go ahead and do so.  It is your life, call who you want.  If someone is kicking my door down, I will call the police, too . . . after I shoot them.  If I have enough warning, I will call the police and then shoot them (after the appropriate warnings for the situation).
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on January 25, 2012, 07:28:14 PM
Quote from: Punch
5) The hostility that I have displayed in some of my posts here do not come from people's opinions.  There was a thread for opinions.  My hostility is for those who trash a thread that was supposed to be for people who like guns to show off their guns.  Instead, we get people who do not see the rudeness in their actions, yet whine and complain that people treat them poorly for their rudeness.  Vamrat is correct about our defensiveness.  We gun owners do not kick your doors down and thrust guns into your hands.  Many of us, like me, actually prefer concealed carry so that being armed does not upset those who are more timid around me.  I regularly speak against open carry on gun forums, and am called some pretty nasty names because of it.  However, just like those who have trashed this thread, the anti-gunners have no trouble trying to force their "opinions" on those who specifically did not ask for them.  It speaks volumes to us as to what kind of people you are.  Just like you have ruined this thread, you would also ruin our rights if you were given the opportunity.

Again, totally wrong. Did you miss the part where I said I don't want to repeal the Second Amendment, I just want a well-regulated militia, like it says? Well, go back in the thread. It's there. I'm not going to do your research for you.

In the meantime, I guess I'm not allowed to voice my opinion on something just because of the topic of this thread. Now who's stifling someone's opinion?

Third time now: I never said I want to take away your guns. I just don't think I have to have lots of guns and constantly remind people of that fact in order to be doing the right thing in this country.

Keep on with your preferred daydream, though, I can see it makes you happy.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: HabteSelassie on January 25, 2012, 08:04:32 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The early church only had access to polearms, spears, swords, clubs, maces, axes, bows/arrows, slings and basic siege weaponry. The innovations I've seen here disgust me.

  I own a rapier, but the Glock is so much more practical.
for what I might ask?

 When the Spanish came to the Americas, the Indians thought of them as cowards for killing men from a distance with firearms.  When the Turks brought these same weapons against the Ethiopians, they felt the same..

I sure wish I lived in the UK where there are knife fights, I'd take a knife fight (even a rapier perhaps) any day against a gun fight.  There have been 100 teenagers killed in the UK by violence since 2000.  There were well over 100 teenagers killed by gun violence in Los Angeles county ALONE just last year :(

How should we solve that problem, should teenagers start being issued carrying permits? (sarcasm by the way)

From my experience, perhaps we should arm them with something proven more effective

(http://psalterstudies.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/wood-rosary.jpg)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: MrJim on January 25, 2012, 09:58:19 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The early church only had access to polearms, spears, swords, clubs, maces, axes, bows/arrows, slings and basic siege weaponry. The innovations I've seen here disgust me.

  I own a rapier, but the Glock is so much more practical.
for what I might ask?

 When the Spanish came to the Americas, the Indians thought of them as cowards for killing men from a distance with firearms.  When the Turks brought these same weapons against the Ethiopians, they felt the same..

I sure wish I lived in the UK where there are knife fights, I'd take a knife fight (even a rapier perhaps) any day against a gun fight.  There have been 100 teenagers killed in the UK by violence since 2000.  There were well over 100 teenagers killed by gun violence in Los Angeles county ALONE just last year :(

How should we solve that problem, should teenagers start being issued carrying permits? (sarcasm by the way)

From my experience, perhaps we should arm them with something proven more effective

(http://psalterstudies.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/wood-rosary.jpg)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
We could try but I don't think we are going to be able to force conversion on gangbangers...you see, they are already breaking law when they engage in their shootings...but I agree we could be doing more in this area. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Marc1152 on January 25, 2012, 10:11:25 PM

However, I know a few people at work who own automatic and semi-automatics.  Unless you are a war veteran and that is "your" gun (do soldiers even get to keep their guns?), I don't see why you would need it.  Perhaps if you live in a land where "war" is constantly looming....but, in the U.S.?  Why would you need one?


What does the operating system have to do with need?  Do you have specific knowledge to back up your thoughts or are you just regurgitating what you have heard on TV?

What's with the attitude?  I was just asking a question.  When have you known me to simply regurgitate what I hear on TV?  I hardly even watch TV!

I have never claimed to be a firearms expert, however, from what little I think I know....rifles can be used for hunting animals for food, target practice, etc.  Semi and automatic weapons are geared for destruction of human life.

Am I wrong?

If I am not wrong, why would anyone in America (other than the armed forces and security personnel) need a weapon of that caliber?

I'm just asking....give me a polite answer.  I have enough people snipping at me at work, I don't need you giving me attitude, too.



Yes.  The bolt action Mauser rifle has probably killed more people in combat than any other.  If you study the Cuban revolution, you will see that Castro himself preferred the bolt action over the semi-auto.  People using a bolt action or single shot usually know how to hit what they shoot with one shot.  Even our military snipers use bolt action weapons in warfare (most of them).  If you want to reach out and touch your target, a semi-auto is not always the best weapon to use.  Of course, there are exceptions such as the excellent Dragunov rifle, and accurized M-14 Springfields (and M-1A rifles).

And caliber refers to the diameter of the bore, not the type of action.  Most hunting weapons are far larger than the current military weapons, which I would not use for hunting anything larger than dogs.  The older 7.62 Nato caliber weapons like my FAL are another matter.  Still not as powerful as a .300 Magnum, 416 Rigby or .500 Nitro Express.

As to semi-automatic hunting and target weapons, there are many.  Most purpose designed hunting semi-autos have NO military use or application.  The current BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) is a premium hunting arm that would not survive the rigors of war.  Remington also makes a semi-automatic hunting rifle.  Semi-automatic shotguns are extremely common both in the field and on trap and skeet ranges.  Semi-automatic pistols are the norm when it comes to competition of nearly any kind other than silhouette shooting.

Nearly all rifles used, and which are useful, for military application are selective fire - not semi-automatic.  The exception to this would be the remaining FAL rifles that were produced semi-auto only because experience with the selective fire ones showed them to be uncontrollable in full auto.  This has not always been true, but it is the current standard.

Are there weapons out there solely made for killing people?  You bet there are.  But, so what.  Most of us who own firearms also believe that it is our right to defend ourselves from predators, human and animal.  And those of us who believe in the Second Amendment of our Constitution consider any weapon suitable for police work to be suitable for self defense.  This brings in weapons such as the AR-15, AK-47 and AK-74 which are primarily designed to kill people.  However, even these are MOSTLY used, in the US at least, for sporting purposes.

I have a buddy who was in Vietnam. He said they were told never to put their M-16 on auto..Big waste.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on January 26, 2012, 01:42:51 AM
When the Spanish came to the Americas, the Indians thought of them as cowards for killing men from a distance with firearms.
so?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on January 26, 2012, 01:44:10 AM
The early church only had access to polearms, spears, swords, clubs, maces, axes, bows/arrows, slings and basic siege weaponry. The innovations I've seen here disgust me.

They also didn't have flush toilets or motorized transport.  I personally don't like feces floating down the streets and I'll bet my Taurus gets better mileage than it's namesake.  I own a rapier, but the Glock is so much more practical.
The rapier is made of steel. The early church could only afford iron weapons.

Abandon your heresy, go fashion yourself an adze out of a cast-iron pot handle.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 26, 2012, 10:34:03 AM
The early church only had access to polearms, spears, swords, clubs, maces, axes, bows/arrows, slings and basic siege weaponry. The innovations I've seen here disgust me.

They also didn't have flush toilets or motorized transport.  I personally don't like feces floating down the streets and I'll bet my Taurus gets better mileage than it's namesake.  I own a rapier, but the Glock is so much more practical.
The rapier is made of steel. The early church could only afford iron weapons.

Abandon your heresy, go fashion yourself an adze out of a cast-iron pot handle.

Why?  I already have plenty of superior weapons.  And if I turn my skillet into an adze, what am I going to cook my beans in during the fast?  My AK's receiver? 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on January 26, 2012, 10:49:21 AM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The early church only had access to polearms, spears, swords, clubs, maces, axes, bows/arrows, slings and basic siege weaponry. The innovations I've seen here disgust me.

  I own a rapier, but the Glock is so much more practical.
for what I might ask?

 When the Spanish came to the Americas, the Indians thought of them as cowards for killing men from a distance with firearms.  When the Turks brought these same weapons against the Ethiopians, they felt the same..

I sure wish I lived in the UK where there are knife fights, I'd take a knife fight (even a rapier perhaps) any day against a gun fight.  There have been 100 teenagers killed in the UK by violence since 2000.  There were well over 100 teenagers killed by gun violence in Los Angeles county ALONE just last year :(

How should we solve that problem, should teenagers start being issued carrying permits? (sarcasm by the way)

From my experience, perhaps we should arm them with something proven more effective

stay blessed,
habte selassie

One of these days you and I are going to have to have a nice long talk about the Spanish invasion of the Americas.  You seem to know a bit about it, and it's a fascinating subject.

As for this, what the Natives thought of the Spaniards and their guns was inconsequential in the long run.  From what I've read, the Indians thought the guns were only useful as noisemakers and many Spaniards in the New World agreed with them.  They were slow, inaccurate, and unreliable.  What gave the Indians real problems was the steel weapons and armour of the Spaniards.  The obsidian bladed sword-clubs couldn't penetrate the steel breast plates or helmets that many of the Spaniards had.  Conversely, their cotton padded armour could not stop the steel swords, pikes, and halberds that the Spaniards wielded.  (Interestingly enough, the steel armour was heavy and cumbersome, so many Spaniards ditched them for the Indian cotton armour which was more comfortable and ultimately did a good enough job at stopping the Indian weapons). 

And of course there was the small pox - best weapon in the Spanish arsenal.

As for the Ethiopians, they seemed to get over their dislike for firearms when fighting the Italians.  (Both times.)

As for knife fights, I'd just as soon not get stabbed.  That's why I prefer a weapon that lets me keep those who would do me harm at a distance.  And as I have stated before, I wear a cross and have an Icon of the Theotokos in my car.  Juts because I carry a gun doesn't mean I don't rely on God.  I've only had to pull the gun once, but the Lord has protected me every other one of the 10,000 days I've been alive.  And when it gets down to it, I think He was protecting me then too.

Think of it this way.  I trust in God to provide for me in all things.  I trust in God to provide for me food and water.  But I also work.  The fact that I work isn't that I don't trust in God, it's that I am not lazy and will provide for myself as best as I can.  Why then should I expect God to protect me from the attacks of the barbarians if I am not willing to do my utmost to avoid trouble and to stave it off if it comes to me?  Christ did not jump from the high place when the evil one tempted Him.  He did not test God.  I see no need to either.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: LizaSymonenko on January 26, 2012, 10:56:49 AM

5) The hostility that I have displayed in some of my posts here do not come from people's opinions.  There was a thread for opinions.  My hostility is for those who trash a thread that was supposed to be for people who like guns to show off their guns.  Instead, we get people who do not see the rudeness in their actions, yet whine and complain that people treat them poorly for their rudeness.  Vamrat is correct about our defensiveness.  We gun owners do not kick your doors down and thrust guns into your hands. 


I'm sorry, Punch.  I didn't mean to add to the hijacking of the thread.  

I am all for private gun ownership, I was just curious why anyone would have a need for semi-automatic (automatic) guns.  One can defend themselves with a pistol, hunt with a regular rifle, etc.  It just seems that a gun that shoots an insane number of rounds in a second is overkill.  That's all.    ...and I am ONLY asking because of those "odd" folks I have at work who are always boasting of owning them.



Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 01, 2012, 07:12:15 PM
Black power.  20 guage.  Howdah pistol made by Pertersoli in Italy.  I would actually like to get out and shoot it with round ball one day.  So far I have only shot it with buckshot, and with paper wadding for making noise on July 4th.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ansgar on April 02, 2012, 07:30:53 AM
Black power.  20 guage.  Howdah pistol made by Pertersoli in Italy.  I would actually like to get out and shoot it with round ball one day.  So far I have only shot it with buckshot, and with paper wadding for making noise on July 4th.

Is it actually real? I have a copy of a similar pistol, but I didn't know they still made real ones?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: podkarpatska on April 02, 2012, 10:18:46 AM
Quote
I think you are exaggerating a bit.  This hyperbole isn't helping your argument, either.  I'm not sure what other posters have said about the police in other parts of the forum, but I know what has been said on this thread and you are not representing any of these posters accurately.  

No one has stated that all police departments should be closed.  They are only pointing out that you need to be responsible for your own safety.  The courts have stated that the Police are not there to protect you as an individual.  They are there to maintain public order.  For example, if you were to be a member of a protest the police would be there to make sure you did no harm to city property.  Now, if you happen to get murdered, raped, or robbed, you cannot sue the police for failing to stop it.  In Nebraska, in two of those instances you would be permitted to defend yourself with lethal force.  In the third instance if the attacker was armed you'd have a pretty good case as well.  

What it boils down to is, you pay taxes to maintain a police department because if you stopped paying taxes those very police would arrest you and dispossess you of your liberty and property.  The reason I spent the money to buy, learn how to use, and get a permit to carry a gun is so that I have some means of defense if, God forbid, it ever come to that
Well stated Vam.

PP

I would argue that is not well stated it all - it belies a rather typical 'pop' culture induced lack of understanding of the ancient concepts of 'commonweal' and 'civitas'  bequeathed to us from Hellenic through Roman and on into Ango-Saxon law and civilization.

I suppose out of fairness this debate does come down to whether one places higher worth to 'individualism' or to 'community' in terms of being a more important cementing virtue to our culture or civilization. I will concede that one can not properly exist in the absence of the other, but the relative weight of each of these virtues is at the root of our current national debate.

If an American citizen feels the need to be armed, I usually don't have a problem with it - unless they have a criminal history or are mentally deficient or mentally ill.

However, for the life of me I have never, and I will never, understand the answer gun absolutists give in response to the question as to why then the state may require training and licenses to fish and hunt, and impose a further requirement for insurance in order to drive a car, be a doctor, be a lawyer, be an engineer etc....

Absolutists give me a problem whether they are from the NRA or NOW.

I will simply agree to disagree on the "absolutists' arguments relative to the gun issue rather than to argue the point 'ad infinitum'. After all this is a free country and we have to respect the ideas of those with whom we disagree (on most issues.)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 02, 2012, 11:06:01 AM
Quote
I think you are exaggerating a bit.  This hyperbole isn't helping your argument, either.  I'm not sure what other posters have said about the police in other parts of the forum, but I know what has been said on this thread and you are not representing any of these posters accurately.  

No one has stated that all police departments should be closed.  They are only pointing out that you need to be responsible for your own safety.  The courts have stated that the Police are not there to protect you as an individual.  They are there to maintain public order.  For example, if you were to be a member of a protest the police would be there to make sure you did no harm to city property.  Now, if you happen to get murdered, raped, or robbed, you cannot sue the police for failing to stop it.  In Nebraska, in two of those instances you would be permitted to defend yourself with lethal force.  In the third instance if the attacker was armed you'd have a pretty good case as well.  

What it boils down to is, you pay taxes to maintain a police department because if you stopped paying taxes those very police would arrest you and dispossess you of your liberty and property.  The reason I spent the money to buy, learn how to use, and get a permit to carry a gun is so that I have some means of defense if, God forbid, it ever come to that
Well stated Vam.

PP

I would argue that is not well stated it all - it belies a rather typical 'pop' culture induced lack of understanding of the ancient concepts of 'commonweal' and 'civitas'  bequeathed to us from Hellenic through Roman and on into Ango-Saxon law and civilization.

I have no idea where you are going with this, based on what I said above.  FWIW, my Major was in Ancient History, primarily Romans and Greeks.  I understand how the Romans and Greeks understood civic duty, etc.  I was basing my statements on the world as it is today.   Our culture owes a lot to the Romans and Greeks, but a lot has changed in 2000+ years.  We are different cultures.  But then again, I was basing my statements off of current society and current laws.

Quote
I suppose out of fairness this debate does come down to whether one places higher worth to 'individualism' or to 'community' in terms of being a more important cementing virtue to our culture or civilization. I will concede that one can not properly exist in the absence of the other, but the relative weight of each of these virtues is at the root of our current national debate.

If an American citizen feels the need to be armed, I usually don't have a problem with it - unless they have a criminal history or are mentally deficient or mentally ill.

I think we need to have both.  An individual should not endanger the community at large.  But in return I believe the community owes each individual member some benefits.  I do find the need to be armed.  The Military has proven itself capable of fighting.  This is proven by the fact that we have had no major enemy incursions into the US since Pancho Villa.  If stuff south of the border starts spilling over any more I think it will be time to discuss allowing civilians to form militias with access to light artillery (mortars) and close support weapons (RPGs and SAWs/LMGs).  As long as the US Government is willing to deploy the Army to the border if the feces hit the oscillating blades, then I will accept that Military (crew served) weapons will generally not be available to civilians.  

Now with the police, can you name a major city that less than 10 murders or rapes per year in the US?  (I still don't think 10 is an acceptable number, but you have to allow some room for misfortune.)  If so, then the Police either have failed at keeping the people safe, or it is not their intent to begin with.  I lean more towards the latter.  The Police are not there to protect you.  They are there to protect the public order - which does involve stopping crime if possible, or to clean up after it's already happened.  I think this is proven by the fact that if you are murdered, raped, robbed, or have a loved one kidnapped, you cannot sue the police for failing to prevent it.  The fact that they cannot is acknowledged by the State.  So, who has this responsibility?  I say you the individual are responsible for your own safety and for that of those that are close to you.  I believe that a personal firearm is the best way to achieve this.

Quote
However, for the life of me I have never, and I will never, understand the answer gun absolutists give in response to the question as to why then the state may require training and licenses to fish and hunt, and impose a further requirement for insurance in order to drive a car, be a doctor, be a lawyer, be an engineer etc....

I have no problem with their being licenses, and I believe that if you are going to carry a gun you should know how to use this.  I almost believe that the NE concealed carry course is a bit easy.  I achieved a perfect score in both accuracy and understanding of the State laws regarding firearms.  I believe that a much higher standard should have been place on operation of the weapon and accuracy.  I am not a trick shot, but I was able to get 100% accuracy with a 50 year old Czech pistol.

At the same time, I believe that these courses should be taught for a lower price so poor people or non-gun-enthusiasts have the ability to learn to defend themselves.  I am over 6' tall and am a rather well built, straight, white man.  Statistically, the likelihood of me becoming a victim is slim.  I think that more women and poor people should learn to defend themselves.

Though, perhaps, I may not fit your definition of an 'absolutist'.

Quote
Absolutists give me a problem whether they are from the NRA or NOW.

I will simply agree to disagree on the "absolutists' arguments relative to the gun issue rather than to argue the point 'ad infinitum'. After all this is a free country and we have to respect the ideas of those with whom we disagree (on most issues.)

Very well.  You respect my rights to voice my opinion and to exercise my right to keep and bear arms, and I will respect your rights to disagree with me and not own or carry a weapon.  Liberty in action.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 02, 2012, 11:08:01 AM
Black power.  20 guage.  Howdah pistol made by Pertersoli in Italy.  I would actually like to get out and shoot it with round ball one day.  So far I have only shot it with buckshot, and with paper wadding for making noise on July 4th.

Is it actually real? I have a copy of a similar pistol, but I didn't know they still made real ones?

I am not sure what you mean by "real".  Mine is a fully functioning pistol and not a non-firing display piece.  Is that what you were asking? 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ansgar on April 02, 2012, 11:16:02 AM
Black power.  20 guage.  Howdah pistol made by Pertersoli in Italy.  I would actually like to get out and shoot it with round ball one day.  So far I have only shot it with buckshot, and with paper wadding for making noise on July 4th.

Is it actually real? I have a copy of a similar pistol, but I didn't know they still made real ones?

I am not sure what you mean by "real".  Mine is a fully functioning pistol and not a non-firing display piece.  Is that what you were asking? 

Yes!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: theo philosopher on April 03, 2012, 11:39:09 PM
More people die in the United States each year from heart disease than they do from firearms.

Shall we ban food?

The point being, we can't become pragmatists or consequentialists at the drop of the hat. What people miss is that the 2nd Amendment was put in place for the people to protect themselves against their government. Now, agree or disagree with armed rebellion, when we put the Founders in their Enlightenment context, we see that they believed a society to be justified in armed conflict against their own government given the proper circumstances. Thus the creation of the 2nd Amendment. This is why "well-armed militia" doesn't negate the private use of arms; and notice how this argument was never made by any of the Founders. That's because it was never in their mind to ban the private ownership of firearms.

Banning guns won't stop violence or curb the murder rate. Pointing to Japan or England's murder rates doesn't work because those are two totally different societies from America. If we could snap our fingers and remove guns overnight, our murder rates would remain relatively the same; rather than shooting one another, we'd just stab one another (reading murder reports one sees that almost daily people die from stab wounds or blunt force trauma every single day).

The problem is ultimately with the culture, not the weapon. The weapon doesn't aim itself and pull the trigger, rather the culture does that. The weapon is simply a tool.

Likewise, while I'm not a consequentialist, I would point out that since states have been allowing conceal carry laws to go through, the US crime rate has actually gone down. This shows a few things:

1) It's possible that by allowing law-abiding citizens to carry weapons, the crime rate actually goes down
2) That there's absolutely no correlation between gun control and violent

But let us assume that our crime rate is tied directly to our gun laws. The fact of the matter is that Pandora's Box has been opened and now criminals have guns. We can't stop them. That they now have them, do we really think that by creating laws criminals will somehow obey these laws? Remember, they are criminals because they break the law.

So even though one may have a problem with guns, we cannot become idealists, nor can we become consequentialists; rather, we must be realists when approaching this issue.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: sprtslvr1973 on April 04, 2012, 05:39:47 AM
As people have said the problem is ultimately with the heart and mind of a people, rather than with tools and methods. I have to say I find it hard to believe that as many Americans are murdered with knives and clubs as they are with guns. My biggest problem with guns is that all too often they escalate an incident from injury to death, and I believe often unnecessarily. If someone can share some verifiable statistics showing the equal death rate from weapons other than firearms, I would appreciate that.
My biggest problem with hardcore gun control, on the other hand has also been stated by others. Simply put, it does not work. In fact contraband based laws rarely work; the same is the case when the subject is soft core porn or small quantity of drug possession for personal use.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: alanscott on April 04, 2012, 07:29:41 AM
Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
         ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 04, 2012, 08:02:11 AM
Geeez.  People just do not get it.  THIS IS A PICTURE THREAD.  There is another thread for arguing the merits of owning or not owning guns.  It is REALLY so hard for supposedly intelligent people to understand this, or have I erred in assuming that most people's IQ on this list at least reaches room temperature on a cold day?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 04, 2012, 08:03:25 AM

5) The hostility that I have displayed in some of my posts here do not come from people's opinions.  There was a thread for opinions.  My hostility is for those who trash a thread that was supposed to be for people who like guns to show off their guns.  Instead, we get people who do not see the rudeness in their actions, yet whine and complain that people treat them poorly for their rudeness.  Vamrat is correct about our defensiveness.  We gun owners do not kick your doors down and thrust guns into your hands. 


I'm sorry, Punch.  I didn't mean to add to the hijacking of the thread.  

I am all for private gun ownership, I was just curious why anyone would have a need for semi-automatic (automatic) guns.  One can defend themselves with a pistol, hunt with a regular rifle, etc.  It just seems that a gun that shoots an insane number of rounds in a second is overkill.  That's all.    ...and I am ONLY asking because of those "odd" folks I have at work who are always boasting of owning them.


We are really not that far off in what we believe.  We can discuss it further on the other thread.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: alanscott on April 04, 2012, 08:32:23 AM
Geeez.  People just do not get it.  THIS IS A PICTURE THREAD.  There is another thread for arguing the merits of owning or not owning guns.  It is REALLY so hard for supposedly intelligent people to understand this, or have I erred in assuming that most people's IQ on this list at least reaches room temperature on a cold day?

O.K. fair and valid point Punch. Everyone please excuse my contribution to defend the fundamental merits of the right to bear arms in the U.S.
Indeed it is veering off the OP topic.

Nor will I defend whether my IQ is above room temperature on a cold day. Not sure it's always above room temp on a summer day and I live in South Florida!  :D


Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Gorazd on April 04, 2012, 09:18:14 AM
In Europe, the murder rate is much lower (per year and 100 000 citizens - 0.85 in Denmark and 4.8 in the US).

At the same time, there is strict gun control, and hardly anyone owns one, except for hunting.

So where is the advantage of gun ownership, please?

And for those here who consider themselves to be Christian: If someone comes to kill or rape you, why don't you turn the other cheek?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: theo philosopher on April 04, 2012, 07:12:19 PM
In Europe, the murder rate is much lower (per year and 100 000 citizens - 0.85 in Denmark and 4.8 in the US).

At the same time, there is strict gun control, and hardly anyone owns one, except for hunting.

So where is the advantage of gun ownership, please?

And for those here who consider themselves to be Christian: If someone comes to kill or rape you, why don't you turn the other cheek?

Two things:

1) As I pointed out, you can't draw a correlation between a low murder rate and gun control. As shown in the US, cities with high gun control have higher violent crime rates; cities with more lax gun control have lower violent crime rates. In other words, it's far more a cultural thing than it is an issue of weapons. Americans simply tend to be more violent than their European counterparts; it's always been that way and it's a part of the culture. It has nothing to do with guns.

2) Consider to be Christians? So one must allow rape? Really? Christians have a right to defend themselves.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: theo philosopher on April 04, 2012, 07:20:21 PM
As for showing off our guns:

(I'm using pictures from the internet rather than taking pictures of my own weapons)

(http://www.gunlistings.org/uploads/2_rifles_nice_sks_rifle_762_x_39_with_scope_48865.jpg) (Mine has a much, much, much better scope that costs nearly as much as the rifle itself)

(http://images.wikia.com/valkyriemovie/images/6/61/M1_grand_with_clip.jpg)

(http://whichgun.com/img/firearms/pistols/springfield_armory/xd-40_subcompact/1.jpg) (I have the 40 and it has less kick than my 9. Really the perfect handgun)

Then I have an assortment of shotguns (3, one pistol grip) and a 9mm. The first two are really just display weapons (though they can fire) and the last one is for personal defense around the house.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 04, 2012, 10:14:22 PM
Theo, if you took off the scope and sling and added the spike bayonet that SKS would look exactly like my Norinco.  One of my favorite rifles to shoot, even though I haven't shot it in years.

What type of M1 Carbine do you have?  Is it original or one of those Universal aberrations?  I have a high serial number Universal - basically it replaced the one weak recoil spring with two even weaker ones.  But it was cheap.  One of the best darn bolt actions I've ever fired!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: theo philosopher on April 04, 2012, 10:49:26 PM
Theo, if you took off the scope and sling and added the spike bayonet that SKS would look exactly like my Norinco.  One of my favorite rifles to shoot, even though I haven't shot it in years.

What type of M1 Carbine do you have?  Is it original or one of those Universal aberrations?  I have a high serial number Universal - basically it replaced the one weak recoil spring with two even weaker ones.  But it was cheap.  One of the best darn bolt actions I've ever fired!

It's an original, used in service (same with the SKS). The M-1 needs some work done to it before I give it away. I originally got it for my father, but have held onto it for a while trying to find a gunsmith to work on it (more try to save up money for it). His dad's weapon in WWII was an M-1 Carbine and when my father went to Vietnam he trained on the M-1 (and then moved onto the M-14, and later M-16). So I made sure the one I purchased had been in use in WWII and I'm just waiting to get it restored.


And my SKS came with a bayonet, but I took it off (serves no purpose). I will say that surprisingly the SKS is one of the most accurate weapons I've ever fired.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on April 05, 2012, 01:50:50 AM
If there was a knife thread I could contribute to that. We have no less than 25 knives in our bedroom alone (in all honesty it is closer to 30, but I don't really count the swiss army knives) I actually don't know how many we own in total. We like knives. Knives have so many uses outside of self defense.

I don't like the noise of a gun. If someone were to break into our home they would be met by 2 dogs, a hail of arrows, about 10 throwing knives, a tomahawk and a spear. After they get past all that I will have an 18 inch machete. ;D

My husband finds throwing knives relaxing :P
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 05, 2012, 09:54:34 AM
If there was a knife thread I could contribute to that. We have no less than 25 knives in our bedroom alone (in all honesty it is closer to 30, but I don't really count the swiss army knives) I actually don't know how many we own in total. We like knives. Knives have so many uses outside of self defense.

I don't like the noise of a gun. If someone were to break into our home they would be met by 2 dogs, a hail of arrows, about 10 throwing knives, a tomahawk and a spear. After they get past all that I will have an 18 inch machete. ;D

My husband finds throwing knives relaxing :P

Knives are fun as well.  I have a Cold Steel Recon Tanto in my room.  My brother keeps an SRK knife on his pistol belt in the front for quick draw.  I have a Bear Grylls machete that looks like an African militia choppa that I used for clearing brush last fall. 

All in all, under 20' the knife is often more effective than the gun just because if you bring a knife to a gun fight and aren't already dead, it can be assumed you have the drop and the second or so disconnect between the brain recognizing danger and being able to draw (and ready a gun if you carry them unchambered like I usually do) is often all you need. 

One of the odd things about the NE concealed carry law is that it is a "Concealed Carry HANDGUN permit".  I could legally carry a shortened AK-47 without a stock so long as it was sold as a "handgun".  If I carried a concealed knife over something like 4" or 5" I would be carrying a concealed weapon and could be punished. 

For you, I think using the tomahawk or spear would just be too awesome!   ;)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: theo philosopher on April 05, 2012, 12:45:35 PM
If there was a knife thread I could contribute to that. We have no less than 25 knives in our bedroom alone (in all honesty it is closer to 30, but I don't really count the swiss army knives) I actually don't know how many we own in total. We like knives. Knives have so many uses outside of self defense.

I don't like the noise of a gun. If someone were to break into our home they would be met by 2 dogs, a hail of arrows, about 10 throwing knives, a tomahawk and a spear. After they get past all that I will have an 18 inch machete. ;D

My husband finds throwing knives relaxing :P

Knives are fun as well.  I have a Cold Steel Recon Tanto in my room.  My brother keeps an SRK knife on his pistol belt in the front for quick draw.  I have a Bear Grylls machete that looks like an African militia choppa that I used for clearing brush last fall. 

All in all, under 20' the knife is often more effective than the gun just because if you bring a knife to a gun fight and aren't already dead, it can be assumed you have the drop and the second or so disconnect between the brain recognizing danger and being able to draw (and ready a gun if you carry them unchambered like I usually do) is often all you need. 

One of the odd things about the NE concealed carry law is that it is a "Concealed Carry HANDGUN permit".  I could legally carry a shortened AK-47 without a stock so long as it was sold as a "handgun".  If I carried a concealed knife over something like 4" or 5" I would be carrying a concealed weapon and could be punished. 

For you, I think using the tomahawk or spear would just be too awesome!   ;)

Personally, I think it'd be quite interesting for everyone to walk around with swords and/or tomahawks. In some parts of the nation that's not a terrible idea (where wildlife still vastly outnumbers humans). Not to mention it would look pretty cool.

Then again, in Europe the swords would be a fashion statement, while in America we'd read more and more about dangerous crowds of Shakespearean vagabonds biting their thumbs at one another and then dueling.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 05, 2012, 01:08:07 PM
If there was a knife thread I could contribute to that. We have no less than 25 knives in our bedroom alone (in all honesty it is closer to 30, but I don't really count the swiss army knives) I actually don't know how many we own in total. We like knives. Knives have so many uses outside of self defense.

I don't like the noise of a gun. If someone were to break into our home they would be met by 2 dogs, a hail of arrows, about 10 throwing knives, a tomahawk and a spear. After they get past all that I will have an 18 inch machete. ;D

My husband finds throwing knives relaxing :P

Knives are fun as well.  I have a Cold Steel Recon Tanto in my room.  My brother keeps an SRK knife on his pistol belt in the front for quick draw.  I have a Bear Grylls machete that looks like an African militia choppa that I used for clearing brush last fall. 

All in all, under 20' the knife is often more effective than the gun just because if you bring a knife to a gun fight and aren't already dead, it can be assumed you have the drop and the second or so disconnect between the brain recognizing danger and being able to draw (and ready a gun if you carry them unchambered like I usually do) is often all you need. 

One of the odd things about the NE concealed carry law is that it is a "Concealed Carry HANDGUN permit".  I could legally carry a shortened AK-47 without a stock so long as it was sold as a "handgun".  If I carried a concealed knife over something like 4" or 5" I would be carrying a concealed weapon and could be punished. 

For you, I think using the tomahawk or spear would just be too awesome!   ;)

Personally, I think it'd be quite interesting for everyone to walk around with swords and/or tomahawks. In some parts of the nation that's not a terrible idea (where wildlife still vastly outnumbers humans). Not to mention it would look pretty cool.

Then again, in Europe the swords would be a fashion statement, while in America we'd read more and more about dangerous crowds of Shakespearean vagabonds biting their thumbs at one another and then dueling.

Personally, I would rather not have to deal with any wild animal that could kill me with a sword.  A bear, wolf, catamount, or poisonous snake would be something I'd rather keep my distance from.  In all honesty, I probably wouldn't want either of my usual carry guns for those, except maybe the snake (.38 snub nose or Polish Radom P64).  Maybe the Glock just because .40 is an OK calibre for this, and it carries a lot of ammo, though with a bear or cougar I would much rather have the .45 LC for a pistol, or better yet, the .45-70 if I was able to carry a rifle!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 05, 2012, 03:02:30 PM
If there was a knife thread I could contribute to that. We have no less than 25 knives in our bedroom alone (in all honesty it is closer to 30, but I don't really count the swiss army knives) I actually don't know how many we own in total. We like knives. Knives have so many uses outside of self defense.

I don't like the noise of a gun. If someone were to break into our home they would be met by 2 dogs, a hail of arrows, about 10 throwing knives, a tomahawk and a spear. After they get past all that I will have an 18 inch machete. ;D

My husband finds throwing knives relaxing :P

Hard core!  I love it!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on April 05, 2012, 04:47:29 PM
In Europe, the murder rate is much lower (per year and 100 000 citizens - 0.85 in Denmark and 4.8 in the US).

At the same time, there is strict gun control, and hardly anyone owns one, except for hunting.

So where is the advantage of gun ownership, please?

It's a lost cause.  Americans desperately want to live in a third world country. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on April 05, 2012, 05:07:13 PM
I have a Cold Steel Recon Tanto in my room.

(http://www.sword-manufacturers-guide.com/images/Lynn-Thompson.jpg)

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on April 05, 2012, 07:30:27 PM
Quote
So where is the advantage of gun ownership, please?
Originally, to protect the people from its government.

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on April 05, 2012, 07:33:10 PM
Ahem, to allow the government to commission a well-regulated militia. In the U.S., anyway. ::)

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 05, 2012, 08:45:58 PM
Geeez.  People just do not get it.  THIS IS A PICTURE THREAD.  There is another thread for arguing the merits of owning or not owning guns.  It is REALLY so hard for supposedly intelligent people to understand this, or have I erred in assuming that most people's IQ on this list at least reaches room temperature on a cold day?

O.K. fair and valid point Punch. Everyone please excuse my contribution to defend the fundamental merits of the right to bear arms in the U.S.
Indeed it is veering off the OP topic.

Nor will I defend whether my IQ is above room temperature on a cold day. Not sure it's always above room temp on a summer day and I live in South Florida!  :D




That is OK.  The person who posted under you as it all covered.  I think he is from Yellowknife, in the winter. :-)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 05, 2012, 08:49:33 PM

And my SKS came with a bayonet, but I took it off (serves no purpose). I will say that surprisingly the SKS is one of the most accurate weapons I've ever fired.


I had one from China, and when used with the Chinese match ammo, it could hold 1.5" groups at 100yds all day.  I used it for shooting bowling pins in competition.  Every bit as effective as the AR-15's and HK's in use then, only far more reliable.  Out of two cases of ammunition that I put through it, there were zero malfunctions.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on April 05, 2012, 09:40:56 PM
SOG is based in part up in our area. That is where we got some of the throwing knives and the machete. I actually waited in line almost 2 hours while 8 months pregnant with 3 kids to buy them for my husband as a Christmas gift. Fortunately one child was with her godmother, unfortunately she would have been the easiest one to have with me while waiting in line. I ended up with the three crazy busy ones. We were quite the interesting sight given how many people were gawking at us. I think the men were concerned my water would break at any moment! ;D :laugh:
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 06, 2012, 11:58:32 AM
Ahem, to allow the government to commission a well-regulated militia. In the U.S., anyway. ::)



I refer you to Thomas Jefferson, or you know, any other of those guys who wrote the document you are referring to.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 06, 2012, 12:16:46 PM
In Europe, the murder rate is much lower (per year and 100 000 citizens - 0.85 in Denmark and 4.8 in the US).

At the same time, there is strict gun control, and hardly anyone owns one, except for hunting.

So where is the advantage of gun ownership, please?

It's a lost cause.  Americans desperately want to live in a third world country.  

Don't worry about us.  
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 06, 2012, 01:34:38 PM
In Europe, the murder rate is much lower (per year and 100 000 citizens - 0.85 in Denmark and 4.8 in the US).

At the same time, there is strict gun control, and hardly anyone owns one, except for hunting.

So where is the advantage of gun ownership, please?

And for those here who consider themselves to be Christian: If someone comes to kill or rape you, why don't you turn the other cheek?

1. Population control.

2. In the first case, I cannot since I would be dead.  In the second, it depends on what he/she/it looks like.  And since you profess the idea of turning the other cheek, PM me your address.  I may like to try a few things out on you, since you don't mind and would not resist.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on April 06, 2012, 01:51:47 PM
In Europe, the murder rate is much lower (per year and 100 000 citizens - 0.85 in Denmark and 4.8 in the US).

At the same time, there is strict gun control, and hardly anyone owns one, except for hunting.

So where is the advantage of gun ownership, please?

It's a lost cause.  Americans desperately want to live in a third world country.  

Don't worry about us.  

Still, it is sad to see the direction the country of my birth is heading.  At some point though I suppose I do become irrelevant American diaspora. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 06, 2012, 04:23:13 PM
In Europe, the murder rate is much lower (per year and 100 000 citizens - 0.85 in Denmark and 4.8 in the US).

At the same time, there is strict gun control, and hardly anyone owns one, except for hunting.

So where is the advantage of gun ownership, please?

It's a lost cause.  Americans desperately want to live in a third world country.  

Don't worry about us.  

Still, it is sad to see the direction the country of my birth is heading.  At some point though I suppose I do become irrelevant American diaspora. 

I don't think you can blame our economic and social issues on firearms ownership.  There are plenty of other factors at work.

For example, what is gun ownership like in Ukraine?  How does the economy compare?

Let me illustrate this - yesterday I rented for a few minutes an Uzi 9mm (I would post the pic, but I have been having nothing but problems uploading images on here).  Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure an average Ukrainian citizen could go to a shooting range and rent a submachinegun.  Furthermore, based on the per capita GDP posted on the CIA World Fact Book, it would take the average Ukrainian two days to afford the cost of renting the gun and the 100 rounds of ammunition I shot off in about 15 seconds per magazine.  For me, it wasn't exactly cheap, but a sum I could easily part with.  And better yet, I probably paid the wages for most of the people working there for that hour, so that helped the economy.

Things aren't great over here, but I don't think more gun control would solve our issues.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on April 06, 2012, 04:47:00 PM
And since you profess the idea of turning the other cheek, PM me your address.  I may like to try a few things out on you, since you don't mind and would not resist.
Christian forum, bro.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on April 06, 2012, 04:48:15 PM
In Europe, the murder rate is much lower (per year and 100 000 citizens - 0.85 in Denmark and 4.8 in the US).

At the same time, there is strict gun control, and hardly anyone owns one, except for hunting.

So where is the advantage of gun ownership, please?

It's a lost cause.  Americans desperately want to live in a third world country. 

Don't worry about us. 

Still, it is sad to see the direction the country of my birth is heading.  At some point though I suppose I do become irrelevant American diaspora. 

I don't think you can blame our economic and social issues on firearms ownership.  There are plenty of other factors at work.

For example, what is gun ownership like in Ukraine?  How does the economy compare?

I think the obsession with guns is more indicative of a general social and cultural decline rather than the root problem.  The toothpaste has been out of the tube for a long while in the US, so cleaning up American cities of guns isn't going to happen over night - even if there were a sudden cultural change. 

Don't look at official statistics re: Ukraine, as all of them are incredibly skewed.  Basically the gun situation is that they are far too expensive for the lower classes to afford.  That's probably the real reason gun violence isn't a big issue here.  If you REALLY want a gun it is possible, but it is expensive and requires quite a few permits / training courses.  For a middle class person it is possible, but only if one is really dedicated.  For the very wealthy it is just a matter of money as all of the permits can be issued for the right price.  Where there is a big cultural difference is that I'd say a good 9 / 10 middle class Ukrainians would bristle at the thought of gun ownership.  Weapons are associated with either the super rich oligarch class, which is despised or with the gopnik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopnik) class, who are also hated.  The gopniki, of course, can't afford guns but knives and primitive improvised weapons are a real threat.  I had a gopnik pull a knife on me about a month ago... not fun.  Middle class Ukrainians don't have the Rambo fantasy displayed by many on this thread (and really at the heart of the American gun culture).  Instead middle class Ukrainians simply modify their behavior to stay out of harm's way - avoid certain areas, don't go out late at night, etc.     
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on April 06, 2012, 04:51:53 PM
And since you profess the idea of turning the other cheek, PM me your address.  I may like to try a few things out on you, since you don't mind and would not resist.
Christian forum, bro.

Post of the Decade!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 06, 2012, 05:19:42 PM
And since you profess the idea of turning the other cheek, PM me your address.  I may like to try a few things out on you, since you don't mind and would not resist.
Christian forum, bro.

What's wrong?  Punch is just trying to help Gorazd grow in his faith.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 06, 2012, 11:18:23 PM
And since you profess the idea of turning the other cheek, PM me your address.  I may like to try a few things out on you, since you don't mind and would not resist.
Christian forum, bro.

And your point?  Look through the history of "Christianity" and you will find far worse.  In any case, satire - how does it work?  Look the word up in Wikipedia and you will see me on the side.  I will stop posting satire when people stop posting stupid.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on April 07, 2012, 01:52:11 AM
And your point?  Look through the history of "Christianity" and you will find far worse.
My point is that mocking a teaching of Christ is sort of goofy on a Christian forum.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: JamesR on April 07, 2012, 01:56:21 AM
Over in Oakland, a city that borders my city in California, you can illegally get a gun for only $40 and sometimes even less if it has a body on it...
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 07, 2012, 06:56:19 AM
And your point?  Look through the history of "Christianity" and you will find far worse.
My point is that mocking a teaching of Christ is sort of goofy on a Christian forum.

I agree.  That is why I wrote the satire against it.  No place does the Church teach that I have to watch my family be killed or raped and not attempt to stop it.  Even deadly force is allowable in such instances.  I am getting tired of the limp writsted cowards that do no seem to have the stomach to defend themselves or their loved ones, and want someone else to put their life on the line for their chicken butts, but can sure find the time to ruin a thread not intended to discuss a matter by their drivel. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Iconodule on April 07, 2012, 08:35:31 AM
No place does the Church teach that I have to watch my family be killed or raped and not attempt to stop it. 

It's awfully scary in this world, isn't it? Rapists are everywhere.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on April 07, 2012, 09:29:42 AM
Over in Oakland, a city that borders my city in California, you can illegally get a gun for only $40 and sometimes even less if it has a body on it...

A gun has a body on it?  ??? Do you pull the gun out from under a corpse on the floor?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 07, 2012, 09:45:10 AM
No place does the Church teach that I have to watch my family be killed or raped and not attempt to stop it. 

It's awfully scary in this world, isn't it? Rapists are everywhere.

I've met enough women who've been raped that I find it's not necessary for rapists to be everywhere, just one at the wrong time is enough.  Or several at the wrong time. 

Here's my challenge to everyone getting on to Punch on here, if you know a woman who has been raped, go up to her and tell her to get over it and just turn the other cheek. 

(FWIW, I do know women who've been raped or sexually assaulted, etc.  I won't be joining you.)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Tzimis on April 07, 2012, 11:46:51 AM
Over in Oakland, a city that borders my city in California, you can illegally get a gun for only $40 and sometimes even less if it has a body on it...

A gun has a body on it?  ??? Do you pull the gun out from under a corpse on the floor?

That is a street term use. When the authorities can trace the internal rifling of a gun or bullet to a previous murder.  Holding the owner of that gun accountable to a previous crime they may have not done.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on April 07, 2012, 12:05:00 PM
Okay, thank you.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 07, 2012, 04:37:02 PM
The picture if off the Internet, but the pistol is the same as mine with exception that my scope is brushed nickel rather than blued.  This is a really nice combination.  The 2X Burris is a boon for those like me who's eyes are not what they used to be.  The Bisley frame makes it really comfortable to shoot.  BTW - this is a Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter in .44 Magnum.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 07, 2012, 04:45:06 PM
Sitting on my hip right now.  Picture is off the internet.  Mine is identical to this.  Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk, .44 Magnum.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on April 07, 2012, 05:25:57 PM
No place does the Church teach that I have to watch my family be killed or raped and not attempt to stop it.

It's awfully scary in this world, isn't it? Rapists are everywhere.

I've met enough women who've been raped that I find it's not necessary for rapists to be everywhere, just one at the wrong time is enough.  Or several at the wrong time. 

Here's my challenge to everyone getting on to Punch on here, if you know a woman who has been raped, go up to her and tell her to get over it and just turn the other cheek. 

(FWIW, I do know women who've been raped or sexually assaulted, etc.  I won't be joining you.)

Yes.  You and I know a woman who would be particularly amuzed with some on this forum, particularly those who like to see people disarmed so they can be nice victims.  Since the first person who raped her, when she was only five years old, was a Baptist Deacon, and the Roman Catholic priest who had to "purify her womb" with his penis before he would baptize her daughter, she has pretty interesting view of "Christians".  She likes my brand of Christianity a bit better, and would be pretty revolted at the Kalinas and Gorzads on this forum.  Yes, tell her to be a good Christian and "turn the other cheek".  Or maybe "roll over".  I want to be there when you do.  I have never actually got a chance to see a gun (which she has now) shoved so far up a person's rear that a dentist would have to remove it.  But I would find it interesting.  And, I am sure they would "turn the other cheek" so she could do it again.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Αριστοκλής on April 07, 2012, 05:34:11 PM
I still do not get the purpose of this topic.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on April 07, 2012, 07:16:30 PM
I have endured sexual assault. In my case a gun would have been worthless. A gun wouldn't make me feel any safer. Women aren't the only ones that are sexually assaulted either. It actually really irks me when people single out women as the only victims of sexual assault. Men and boys are victimized too. For the average victim a gun would be pretty worthless since most sexual assault victims are abused by people they know/trust not random strangers.

I like knives. Sure they can be great self defense weapons if used correctly. But they have a purpose outside of self defense or hunting. I use the knife I keep in my purse on a daily basis.

Self defense in reference to strangers starts with knowing how to keep out of dangerous situations. An actual self defense course such as Krav Maga would be far more useful than a gun. Owning a gun (or knife) is useless if you don't know how to use it. And to really know how to use a gun you need to do more than target practice every few weeks/months. Most people can't target practice on a daily basis. Knowing how to shoot a gun in theory won't actually guarantee that you will do so in a dangerous situation. It is one thing to shoot at a target, another altogether to shoot another human being. There is a reason why the military has to work so hard to condition soldiers to shoot/attack. Unless you are semi sociopathic it isn't all that easy to kill someone. It isn't instinctual to kill someone unless you have trained hours and hours and broken down the instinct not to kill that is there inherently.

If you are going to shoot a person, you shoot to kill. Center mass and head shots only. It isn't like in the movies where you shoot them in the leg/arm in hopes of stopping them. This is why I am more comfortable with knives. I can incapacitate a person with a well placed knife cut, I don't have to go for the "kill shots" so to speak. There are defenses to the "defanging the snake" techniques that need to be practiced so they become instinctual. But that isn't the same as practicing to kill someone. Yes, I could kill someone with a knife by virtue of them bleeding out. But it is one thing to aim to incapacitate versus kill.

Even though I have endured plenty of things I would not wish on anyone else, I still wouldn't take the idea of ending someone else's life lightly in defending myself. Honestly I don't want to get to the point where it would be easy to kill someone even in self defense. I know for me personally if I were to cross that threshold it would change me on a fundamental level. I have enough violent/angry tendencies to deal with already.

Now- you try to harm my kids and your life is OVER. ;) I think there is some sort of overriding instinct there that is uncontrollable. So I really do pity the person on the otherside of my knives if they harm or attempt to harm my children.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: TheMathematician on April 07, 2012, 07:31:49 PM
I still do not get the purpose of this topic.
the purpose of this thread is so gun owners can show off their guns and brag about who has the best one
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on April 07, 2012, 07:37:04 PM
I still do not get the purpose of this topic.

I think the thread title pretty much says it ;)  Though I suppose context is important... on other sites I'm on, if I saw that thread title, I'd see pics more like this...

(http://elitegalleryz.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Phil-Heath-1.jpg)

With comments like: "You mirin my gains? Phils good man"
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on April 07, 2012, 07:48:18 PM
I understand the desire to have a gun to protect your loved ones. I know that I would never use a gun even if I had one. I don't like the noise and I don't want to shoot to kill. To a large extent the reason why we DON'T have a gun is precisely because it would be so easy for my husband to use one. I think his deployments are just too recent for him to be comfortable with guns for now. Maybe in a few years we will get a gun. I don't have any problems with having a gun. If we were to get a gun I would make sure I know how to use it even if I never intend to use it. But for now the arsenal of knives and such are plenty. I would like to get a crossbow next ;) It is too bad you can't hunt in our state using a crossbow, throwing knives or a spear, that would be AWESOME. Crossbows are idiot proof. And nothing says leave me alone like an arrow going straight thru your body! LOL
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 07, 2012, 11:14:47 PM
I understand the desire to have a gun to protect your loved ones. I know that I would never use a gun even if I had one. I don't like the noise and I don't want to shoot to kill. To a large extent the reason why we DON'T have a gun is precisely because it would be so easy for my husband to use one. I think his deployments are just too recent for him to be comfortable with guns for now. Maybe in a few years we will get a gun. I don't have any problems with having a gun. If we were to get a gun I would make sure I know how to use it even if I never intend to use it. But for now the arsenal of knives and such are plenty. I would like to get a crossbow next ;) It is too bad you can't hunt in our state using a crossbow, throwing knives or a spear, that would be AWESOME. Crossbows are idiot proof. And nothing says leave me alone like an arrow going straight thru your body! LOL

Out of your two posts there is a lot of wisdom to be found.  In fact, there is only one point where I categorically disagree with you.  A crossbow is NOT idiot-proof.  I would offer proof...but it would be too humiliating.  

BTW, where do you buy replacement crossbow strings?   :D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 07, 2012, 11:16:08 PM
I still do not get the purpose of this topic.
the purpose of this thread is so gun owners can show off their guns and brag about who has the best one

Oh geez.  If that were the only point I would put in a picture of my gat and we could /thread.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: orthonorm on April 07, 2012, 11:17:08 PM
And nothing says leave me alone like an arrow going straight thru your body!

My new do might.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on April 07, 2012, 11:31:28 PM
I understand the desire to have a gun to protect your loved ones. I know that I would never use a gun even if I had one. I don't like the noise and I don't want to shoot to kill. To a large extent the reason why we DON'T have a gun is precisely because it would be so easy for my husband to use one. I think his deployments are just too recent for him to be comfortable with guns for now. Maybe in a few years we will get a gun. I don't have any problems with having a gun. If we were to get a gun I would make sure I know how to use it even if I never intend to use it. But for now the arsenal of knives and such are plenty. I would like to get a crossbow next ;) It is too bad you can't hunt in our state using a crossbow, throwing knives or a spear, that would be AWESOME. Crossbows are idiot proof. And nothing says leave me alone like an arrow going straight thru your body! LOL

Out of your two posts there is a lot of wisdom to be found.  In fact, there is only one point where I categorically disagree with you.  A crossbow is NOT idiot-proof.  I would offer proof...but it would be too humiliating.  

BTW, where do you buy replacement crossbow strings?   :D

Cabelas sells replacement strings :D I would love to hear the story behind your proof that crossbows aren't idiot proof!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Gorazd on April 08, 2012, 04:52:59 PM
And since you profess the idea of turning the other cheek, PM me your address.  I may like to try a few things out on you, since you don't mind and would not resist.

Done.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 08, 2012, 07:31:21 PM
I understand the desire to have a gun to protect your loved ones. I know that I would never use a gun even if I had one. I don't like the noise and I don't want to shoot to kill. To a large extent the reason why we DON'T have a gun is precisely because it would be so easy for my husband to use one. I think his deployments are just too recent for him to be comfortable with guns for now. Maybe in a few years we will get a gun. I don't have any problems with having a gun. If we were to get a gun I would make sure I know how to use it even if I never intend to use it. But for now the arsenal of knives and such are plenty. I would like to get a crossbow next ;) It is too bad you can't hunt in our state using a crossbow, throwing knives or a spear, that would be AWESOME. Crossbows are idiot proof. And nothing says leave me alone like an arrow going straight thru your body! LOL

Out of your two posts there is a lot of wisdom to be found.  In fact, there is only one point where I categorically disagree with you.  A crossbow is NOT idiot-proof.  I would offer proof...but it would be too humiliating.  

BTW, where do you buy replacement crossbow strings?   :D

Cabelas sells replacement strings :D I would love to hear the story behind your proof that crossbows aren't idiot proof!

"Ok, now that I have it drawn it's usually not best to dry fire these things.  Supposedly it can snap the string.  Oh well, never has before..."  [ffwwthungtsk]

[chorus of laughter]

"Oh crap."
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on April 08, 2012, 07:42:24 PM
Fortunately bow strings are fairly inexpensive. :D

At least it was the string and not one of the limbs!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on April 08, 2012, 07:48:52 PM
Question: does any state require licensing for bows if you don't hunt but just do target practice?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on April 08, 2012, 08:10:28 PM
No licensing outside of hunting licenses for the state. Then you have to take a hunter safety course.

The laws are a little strange in my city. Basically most things are legal unless you use them in a threatening or intimidating manner. So target practice at a facility or in your yard would be in general OK.

You can't hunt with a crossbow unless you are disabled.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: biro on April 08, 2012, 08:11:09 PM
No licensing outside of hunting licenses for the state. Then you have to take a hunter safety course.

The laws are a little strange in my city. Basically most things are legal unless you use them in a threatening or intimidating manner.

I see, thanks.  :)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on April 12, 2012, 03:37:28 PM
a spear.
What kind of spear?  :-X
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on April 12, 2012, 05:52:48 PM
a spear.
What kind of spear?  :-X

This type with a long shaft:
http://www.coldsteel.com/aswishsh.htm
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: akimori makoto on April 16, 2012, 08:41:10 PM
I still do not get the purpose of this topic.

I think the thread title pretty much says it ;)  Though I suppose context is important... on other sites I'm on, if I saw that thread title, I'd see pics more like this...

(http://elitegalleryz.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Phil-Heath-1.jpg)

With comments like: "You mirin my gains? Phils good man"

The legs creep me out ...
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on April 29, 2012, 11:54:05 PM
This type with a long shaft:
http://www.coldsteel.com/aswishsh.htm
That's a good spear type.

I'm more versed in the over-sized Chinese variety, myself.  :police:
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on April 30, 2012, 05:40:55 PM
I saw the most glorious thing on Facebuch today:

"Guns don't kill people.  Drug cartels armed by our government kill people."

Lima oscar lima.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on April 30, 2012, 06:25:53 PM
The legs creep me out ...

You don't like guys with upper legs bigger than your waist?  ;D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on May 02, 2012, 09:32:25 AM
The discussion of how less gun control may solve our issues has been moved to Politics (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?board=24). If you don't yet have access to the Politics board but would like to continue following that discussion, please send Fr. George a private message requesting access.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44459.0.html (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44459.0.html)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Cognomen on May 02, 2012, 12:13:34 PM
If you are going to shoot a person, you shoot to kill stop the threat. Center mass and head shots only.

Fixed. It just so happens that shutting down the computer or breaking the plumbing are good ways to do this. 

While you're generally correct, some govt. agencies are trained to specifically target the pelvic bone for first shots, as someone with a shattered pelvis is incapable of standing.  But depending on the level of threat, the 2+1 usually follows quickly.
But you are absolutely right about it not being like the movies where you wing the bad guy and lecture your wounded catch.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on May 02, 2012, 02:40:35 PM
If you are going to shoot a person, you shoot to kill stop the threat. Center mass and head shots only.

Fixed. It just so happens that shutting down the computer or breaking the plumbing are good ways to do this. 

While you're generally correct, some govt. agencies are trained to specifically target the pelvic bone for first shots, as someone with a shattered pelvis is incapable of standing.  But depending on the level of threat, the 2+1 usually follows quickly.
But you are absolutely right about it not being like the movies where you wing the bad guy and lecture your wounded catch.


Also, in the trial following this (depending on the totalitarianness of the State) saying you "shot to stop" is going to sound much better than "shot to kill".  And in the American juridecimal system, you have to take into account how things sound, juries being the twelve people (with either so little to do/who were to stupid to get out) of jury duty.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: acts420 on May 02, 2012, 03:53:06 PM
This is the Smith and Wesson Model 360SC.  This gun was one of S&W's first featherweight, scandium frame models.  I purchased one in 2003 primarily because of the light weight and barrel length. I wanted the light weight so I could carry it on a deep woods backpacking trip I was planning (just in case I needed to scare off a bear or worse).  I also figured the 3 1/8 inch barrel was better than the 1 7/8 inch model on most of Smith’s J frame revolvers.

A slightly longer barrel should improve accuracy due to the longer sight radius, should pump out a little more velocity, and should provide a little more control over recoil. The 360 also came with adjustable rear sights and with a Hi-Viz Tru Glo "orange fiber optic sight up front.   The ultimate selling point, for me, was the power of .357 along with a weight of just about 10 oz.  That was too good to resist.  It turned out that, in some ways, that combination was too good to be true.

In practice, I've found it difficult to get this gun to group very well.   Shooting .38 is not too bad in those regards, but the larger .357 rounds especially seem to perhaps be throwing the revolver off before the bullet can leave the chamber.  The larger rounds also hurt my hand.  Shooting .357 through this gun is no joke.  Due to its light weight, the gun passes a lot of recoil into the hand.  

I still enjoy the gun though.  If I expected to have to shoot a lot or to aim especially well at distance, then I would probably get another gun.  But my most likely use would be to shoot into the ground in an attempt to scare a bear away.  If I ever actually had to shoot a bear or worse, the situation would be so close range I wouldn't be worrying about groupings.  So I'm basically happy with the model 360 sc.  It's great to have something lightweight to carry when I'd like to, and I love the reliability of revolvers.   I just practice with .38 once in a while.  Other than that, I keep it loaded with .357 for self defense, and of course I pray I'll never have to use it.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on May 02, 2012, 04:04:12 PM
This is the Smith and Wesson Model 360SC.  This gun was one of S&W's first featherweight, scandium frame models.  I purchased one in 2003 primarily because of the light weight and barrel length. I wanted the light weight so I could carry it on a deep woods backpacking trip I was planning (just in case I needed to scare off a bear or worse).  I also figured the 3 1/8 inch barrel was better than the 1 7/8 inch model on most of Smith’s J frame revolvers.

A slightly longer barrel should improve accuracy due to the longer sight radius, should pump out a little more velocity, and should provide a little more control over recoil. The 360 also came with adjustable rear sights and with a Hi-Viz Tru Glo "orange fiber optic sight up front.   The ultimate selling point, for me, was the power of .357 along with a weight of just about 10 oz.  That was too good to resist.  It turned out that, in some ways, that combination was too good to be true.

In practice, I've found it difficult to get this gun to group very well.   Shooting .38 is not too bad in those regards, but the larger .357 rounds especially seem to perhaps be throwing the revolver off before the bullet can leave the chamber.  The larger rounds also hurt my hand.  Shooting .357 through this gun is no joke.  Due to its light weight, the gun passes a lot of recoil into the hand.  

I still enjoy the gun though.  If I expected to have to shoot a lot or to aim especially well at distance, then I would probably get another gun.  But my most likely use would be to shoot into the ground in an attempt to scare a bear away.  If I ever actually had to shoot a bear or worse, the situation would be so close range I wouldn't be worrying about groupings.  So I'm basically happy with the model 360 sc.  It's great to have something lightweight to carry when I'd like to, and I love the reliability of revolvers.   I just practice with .38 once in a while.  Other than that, I keep it loaded with .357 for self defense, and of course I pray I'll never have to use it.

Sounds like you got the right idea in practicing with .38 and loading with .357.  A steady diet of .357 could make that a pretty dangerous gun to use.  My first pistol was the scandium framed snubbie with the short barrel.  I have long-barrel J-Frame with the long barrel as well, but mine is SS.  My grandpa has carried a .357 for dealing with bears, and he's even seen a park ranger use one on a bear before, but that takes some skill.  If I was backpacking I'd probably stick with the .45 LC since it has nice penetration, and the heavier bullet would be even better.  Then again, if you plan on running into a bear, it's hard to beat a .45-70 with an 18" barrel.  But it's a lot harder to conceal!   ;)

PS: I don't even want to know how that thing feels with .357!  The .38 hurts my hand just fine!  It's a toss up between the little .38 and the Polish Radom in 9x18 as to which of my handguns hurts the most to fire.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 14, 2012, 10:25:26 AM
As was said before, the cops are good after or before the crime. usually the deed is done by the time the cops get there. Its nothing against them, but its fact.

PP

Police are overworked, under paid and hardly appreciated any longer.  Too many restrictions of how to employ enforcement of law makes for a weak police force, but not as the result of the officers themselves.  You'll have to trust me on this.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 14, 2012, 10:26:12 AM
Let us remember a few things. 

One, not all countries allow firearms to the public.  This is ok, it’s their governments choice, but let’s not ignore the fact that in many of these countries their violence is on par with the countries that do have weapons open to the public.  Murder is murder, assault is assaults, robbery is robber, it does not matter what device is utilized.

Two, even in the countries which do not allow firearms to the public, criminals still obtain these weapons and use them against defenseless citizens.  It is proof making it illegal to own a firearm in no way deters criminals, it only deters those who already follow their laws. 

Three, America has a Constitutional right to own firearms, so it makes no difference what your personal opinion is, we can own them simply because we want to.  There is no other justification required. 

Having said this, if you do not want to carry a weapon, no one is going to force you.  Should you choose to carry a firearm, own a firearm, take courses for firearm use, shoot recreationally (such as in SASS or CAS, etc.), or whatever, anyone who disparages you for this apparently feels the Constitution should bend to their whims, which is unconstitutional.  As I stated in another thread, owning, carrying and using a firearm requires training and wisdom and most times the choice will be NOT to use it, even if you have the opportunity; however, in the situation you need it, have the chance to use it, and could protect innocent lives by doing so, you don’t want to be the guy thinking, “Crap, I should have a gun right now.” 

Additionally, proper training teaches the goal is not to kill anyone, simply to stop the threat.  Most times, this can be accomplished simply by revealing your weapon causing the coward criminal to run away.  If this does not happen, shooting him rarely kills him, read the stats, it’s really educational. 

Also, in America, anyone who has served in the military (to include National Guard) has extensive weapons training as well as Use of Force training to counter aggressiveness.  Remember why Japan didn’t invade mainland America?  If not, it was because every other house had firearms.  They knew they would get whipped.   
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 14, 2012, 10:26:19 AM

As for children using weapons, they have been doing it in America for a few hundred years now.  With proper training and education, there is no problem, proper being the key word.  My children know all the weapons safety rules and can provide them on request.  They also know when they are allowed to look, touch or handle a firearm.  Education is the key here.  Teach a person to fear weapons and they will remain a target the rest of their life.  Teach a person to respect the power of a firearm and they will make an intelligent choice on what they will do with it.  Teach a child the destructive power of a firearm and they will learn life is precious, at least most will.  BTW – shooting someone and beating the crap out of them with Martial Arts is the same result.  Why do you reason when you obtain a black belt you must register yourself as a deadly weapon? 

Firearms are not made to murder or kill anyone.  How many people do you know who go hunting and carry a pistol for defense against wild animals (snakes, boar, wild dogs or cats)?  I know a lot.  Shotguns and rifles are for hunting, but can be refitted for other applications such as military use, etc.  Handguns today are for defense, collecting and recreation.  What is wrong with heading out to the range to send a few rounds down range in a competition shoot?  Nothing.  What is wrong with being able to defend your daughter or wife against someone who is about to rape and kill them?  Nothing.  What is wrong with stopping a horrific crime in action in a public area?  Nothing.  What is wrong with eliminating the threat of violence in church?  Nothing.  You may be able to do all these things without a gun, or you may need one to facilitate a safe conclusion to the situation.  I feel confident statistics reveal most violent gun grimes do not occur from law abiding citizens with properly registered firearms.  Guns do not kill people, people kill people.

I recently was asked by a church to review their security situation.  While they may never need to use any of the suggestions I supplied, they are much safer now than before my visit.  Surprisingly, they had already implemented several safety features prior to my arrival.  Other than making sure security personnel had appropriate training, most of the suggestions involved reaction and control scenarios while alerting law enforcement.

In relation to the automatic firearms question, you are required to have a special permit (not easily obtained) to own those and most who do are collectors or Federal Firearm dealers.  The best we can do is semi-automatic, which applies to almost every weapon ever made other than pump and bolt action weapons.

In summary, if you live where guns are not allowed, don’t worry about it, but be aware criminals still have them.  If you do live where guns are allowed and you don’t want to carry or own, don’t, but do not treat those who choose to like some type of Neanderthal imbecile for doing so.  Chances are they know more about their own weapon than the thugs who are carrying.  Also, be sure if your life is ever preserved by one of us violent, gun slinging, cowboy, adventure addicts, you at least say thanks.  A gun is nothing more than a tool.  Its proper use is up to the one holding it.

Having said all this, I have sold many of my weapons, but I currently have one rifle and shotgun for hunting and three handguns, two for concealed carry and one for home defense.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 14, 2012, 10:32:30 AM
(http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/6763153919/9223045/acf76fc.jpg)

(http://floridasilencer.com/images/P/Remington%20870.jpg)

(http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/70242.jpg)

(http://www.bluesheepdog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/smith_and_wesson_bodyguard_380_b.jpg)

(http://72hoursurvival.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/120023_large.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on July 14, 2012, 10:45:03 AM
Savage makes a nice rifle.  I have one in .22 Mag and I cannot believe how accurate it is right out of the box.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 14, 2012, 01:49:47 PM
Savage makes a nice rifle.  I have one in .22 Mag and I cannot believe how accurate it is right out of the box.

I see no reason to pay the extra dollars for a Browning (or other similar weapon system) you are afraid will get scratched when you get a very nice rifle from Savage which works just as well for a fraction of the cost.  You spend more time figuring out which round works best in the rifle than you do which rifle to purchase.  Plus, Savage is a rather rugged machine.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on July 14, 2012, 02:06:02 PM
For Orthonorm, courtesy of the New Sincerity Movement:

(http://images.sscentral.org/reviews/cps1000_02.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 14, 2012, 02:12:51 PM
I have a collapsible semi-automatic Nerf gun.  The projectiles even whistle as they zip across the room.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 16, 2012, 05:09:43 AM
Firearms are not made to murder or kill anyone.

Some people use them as sexual prosthesises

Quote
How many people do you know who go hunting and carry a pistol for defense against wild animals (snakes, boar, wild dogs or cats)?

It would be a funny thing to see man trying to shoot a snake. Do you shoot mosquitoes too?

Quote
Shotguns and rifles are for hunting, but can be refitted for other applications such as military use, etc.

Yeah, "military use" does not require killing anyone.

Quote
What is wrong with being able to defend your daughter or wife against someone who is about to rape and kill them?  Nothing.  What is wrong with stopping a horrific crime in action in a public area?  Nothing.  What is wrong with eliminating the threat of violence in church?  Nothing.

From the Christian PON? I wouldn't be so sure.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 16, 2012, 12:39:35 PM
Some people use them as sexual prosthesises
You appear to have a severe preoccupation with this analogy (as do some others).  What percentage of the world population do you believe uses guns in this way?  My guess would be around 0.0006%, or so, and that is being liberal.  In addition, your comment had very little, if anything, to do with the comment to which you replied.


It would be a funny thing to see man trying to shoot a snake. Do you shoot mosquitoes too?

What would be funny about it?  I have seen it several times.  Walking through the wilderness, step too close to a rattlesnake to move without being bitten, shoot the snake.  As a matter of fact, in the early 90’s one of my buddies tripped and found himself face to face with a rattlesnake.  We shot the snake.  I see no humor in it. 

Mosquitoes?  Let’s attempt to use some sensible debating points.

Yeah, "military use" does not require killing anyone.
You will see I used the word “refitted”.  Most people do not own or use strictly military style weapon systems for home protection or self-defense.  An M240G in the apartment hallway is slightly overkill.   Again, sensible debating points.

From the Christian PON? I wouldn't be so sure.

I would.  That is what is so spectacular about personal opinions.  They can be different and still both be right.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: primuspilus on July 16, 2012, 12:43:07 PM
Quote
Some people use them as sexual prosthesises
I would only go as far as some folks use them as a substitution for something they feel is inferior...however, this is an extreme minority IMHO.

Quote
It would be a funny thing to see man trying to shoot a snake. Do you shoot mosquitoes too?
After being bit by a Copperhead snake in the woods, and spent 3 days in the hospital for it, I'll shoot one if it slithers my way.

Quote
Yeah, "military use" does not require killing anyone
So are boots....im not following you here.

PP
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on July 16, 2012, 02:50:20 PM
It would be a funny thing to see man trying to shoot a snake. Do you shoot mosquitoes too?

Not funny at all.  I have a friend in Wisconsin that had to shoot a rattlesnake that his buddy almost stepped on climbing over a fence.  His buddy was quite upset that he shot so close to him (within inches) until he saw the dead snake.  Cotton Mouth snakes were very common (and aggressive) where I lived in the South.  The first two shots in my revolver were always snake shot when I was in the field.

Dragonflies make good targets, if you are into killing things that are not trying to kill you.  But given with your fixation with firearms as a penis, I am not sure that I would want to know what you would do with one.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 19, 2012, 07:43:51 PM
BTW, today is the birthday of both Samuel Colt and Gaston Glock.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: orthonorm on July 19, 2012, 08:27:28 PM
Firearms are not made to murder or kill anyone.

Some people use them as sexual prosthesises

Nice!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: orthonorm on July 19, 2012, 08:29:20 PM

Your avatar truly never gets old.

Never change.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 20, 2012, 09:35:10 AM
Firearms are not made to murder or kill anyone.

Some people use them as sexual prosthesises


Michal, I believe everyone has a right to do what they want in their own home, so I would never judge you for how you like to use your own firearms.  But please, could you just set my mind at ease and let me know that you unload them before you...well, do whatever it is that you do with them?  I wouldn't want anyone getting hurt.

Thanks,
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Αριστοκλής on July 20, 2012, 09:59:49 AM
Quote
It would be a funny thing to see man trying to shoot a snake.

I've seen many poisonous snakes -Cottonmouth vipers and Eastern Diamondback Rattlers mostly- shot with a gun. Single shot .38 at twenty feet was most impressive but I appreciated the effects of a 20-gauge shotgun just as much. In both those situations it was "them or us".
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Gorazd on July 20, 2012, 10:06:50 AM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 20, 2012, 12:22:04 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 01:03:23 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 20, 2012, 01:20:53 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: JoeS2 on July 20, 2012, 01:21:45 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

Once a Marine.....I slept with mine also. Boot Camp and Vietnam....
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 20, 2012, 02:27:26 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 03:03:28 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?
Of course it did. When in the field, I slept with my rifle to keep others from taking it.

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest.  
What's really weird is that you don't get Mike's obvious use of absurd sarcasm.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: JoeS2 on July 20, 2012, 03:07:12 PM

Look, this subject just doesnt belong on this forum. I am a gun owner but wouldnt think of discussing this on a religious website.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 20, 2012, 03:08:50 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 03:09:48 PM

Look, this subject just doesnt belong on this forum.
Why not?

I am a gun owner but wouldnt think of discussing this on a religious website.
Even when we're discussing this subject on a non-religious section of a religious web site?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Schultz on July 20, 2012, 03:11:16 PM
I gotta tell you, I love that this and the Batman movie shooting threads are right next to each other.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 03:12:48 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   
Why are so many people so inclined to take arguments so personally?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 20, 2012, 03:20:13 PM
I gotta tell you, I love that this and the Batman movie shooting threads are right next to each other.

And the fact that people who loudliest cry there loudliest support gun owning here.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 20, 2012, 03:30:02 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 20, 2012, 03:33:44 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   
Why are so many people so inclined to take arguments so personally?
emphasis added

I thought I was clear; however I shall try again.  An impersonal argument criticizing one's position or one's reasoning should not be taken personally.  A personal attack on one's morality should be taken personally.  Do you see the difference?  Implying that your opponent is a pervert because he disagrees with you on gun control is a personal attack, not an argument.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 03:34:49 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   
Why are so many people so inclined to take arguments so personally?
emphasis added

I thought I was clear; however I shall try again.  An impersonal argument criticizing one's position or one's reasoning should not be taken personally.  A personal attack on one's morality should be taken personally.  Do you see the difference?  Implying that your opponent is a pervert because he disagrees with you on gun control is a personal attack, not an argument.


But Mike never made that implication, which means you're reading that implication into what he wrote.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 20, 2012, 03:36:23 PM
I believe a couple of people mentioned this, but I am still at a loss to why or how they make this connection.  I do not see the rational purpose of attributing anything with male anatomy unless there is a solid connection.  It's a weak debating point, especially when considering its wrong.  I also don't understand why otherwise intelligent men of God can't civilly disagree.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 20, 2012, 03:36:45 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
emphasis added

Ridiculing an argument or the implications of an argument is different from personally attacking your opponent's morality.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 03:37:04 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 03:38:13 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
emphasis added

Ridiculing an argument or the implications of an argument is different from personally attacking your opponent's morality.
But Mike never attacked his opponents' morality, which means you must be reading that attack into his words.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 20, 2012, 03:41:52 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.
A 410 shotgun was designed for the sole purpose of killing another human being?  Odd way of looking at it.  I disagree.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 20, 2012, 03:49:54 PM
Firearms are not made to murder or kill anyone.

Some people use them as sexual prosthesises

Quote
How many people do you know who go hunting and carry a pistol for defense against wild animals (snakes, boar, wild dogs or cats)?

It would be a funny thing to see man trying to shoot a snake. Do you shoot mosquitoes too?

Quote
Shotguns and rifles are for hunting, but can be refitted for other applications such as military use, etc.

Yeah, "military use" does not require killing anyone.

Quote
What is wrong with being able to defend your daughter or wife against someone who is about to rape and kill them?  Nothing.  What is wrong with stopping a horrific crime in action in a public area?  Nothing.  What is wrong with eliminating the threat of violence in church?  Nothing.

From the Christian PON? I wouldn't be so sure.
emphasis added

Quote from PeterTheAleut:

But Mike never made that implication, which means you're reading that implication into what he wrote.

Please, pray tell, explain how accusing your opponents of using a firearm "as a sexual prosthesis" is not an attack on one's morality? Wouldn't using a firearm as such a prosthesis constitute an act which upon which the Church would frown?  Aside from being an improper personal attack, and not an argument either for, or against CCW in Church, I also believe such inappropriate "arguments" are inappropriate in the public portion of this forum.  

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 20, 2012, 03:54:52 PM
Hmm...

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/LOLPhallicSymbolism.jpg)


“A gun is psychologically a penis-substitute and a symbol of power: the age-range of toy-shop clientele begins at about six or seven, rises sharply just before puberty and declines soon after the discovery of the phallus and its promise of power. From then on, guns are for kids and for the effete freaks and misfits who must seek psycho-orgasmic relief by shooting pheasants.”
― Adam Hall, The Quiller Memorandum

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/75699-a-gun-is-psychologically-a-penis-substitute-and-a-symbol-of
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 20, 2012, 04:00:33 PM
Hmm...

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/LOLPhallicSymbolism.jpg)


“A gun is psychologically a penis-substitute and a symbol of power: the age-range of toy-shop clientele begins at about six or seven, rises sharply just before puberty and declines soon after the discovery of the phallus and its promise of power. From then on, guns are for kids and for the effete freaks and misfits who must seek psycho-orgasmic relief by shooting pheasants.”
― Adam Hall, The Quiller Memorandum

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/75699-a-gun-is-psychologically-a-penis-substitute-and-a-symbol-of

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 20, 2012, 04:03:28 PM
Hmm...

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/LOLPhallicSymbolism.jpg)


“A gun is psychologically a penis-substitute and a symbol of power: the age-range of toy-shop clientele begins at about six or seven, rises sharply just before puberty and declines soon after the discovery of the phallus and its promise of power. From then on, guns are for kids and for the effete freaks and misfits who must seek psycho-orgasmic relief by shooting pheasants.”
― Adam Hall, The Quiller Memorandum

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/75699-a-gun-is-psychologically-a-penis-substitute-and-a-symbol-of
This is certainly one opinion.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 04:06:43 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.
A 410 shotgun was designed for the sole purpose of killing another human being?  Odd way of looking at it.  I disagree.
Not ALL guns are made for the sole purpose of killing another human being; some are made for hunting animals. But you cannot hold yourself immune to ridicule for making the blanket statement that guns are not made for killing people, for some guns are made specifically for that purpose.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 20, 2012, 04:13:24 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.
A 410 shotgun was designed for the sole purpose of killing another human being?  Odd way of looking at it.  I disagree.
Not ALL guns are made for the sole purpose of killing another human being; some are made for hunting animals. But you cannot hold yourself immune to ridicule for making the blanket statement that guns are not made for killing people, for some guns are made specifically for that purpose.

I appreciate your honesty.  I have been waiting for someone to finally admit this much.  But, in truth its all in your approach.  You say some are designed specifically to kill people, which I would not argue (military grade weapons), however, someone may say they were designed to protect the weak and innocent.  The bottom line is, its all in the hands of the user, not the weapon itself. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 04:13:43 PM
Firearms are not made to murder or kill anyone.

Some people use them as sexual prosthesises

Quote
How many people do you know who go hunting and carry a pistol for defense against wild animals (snakes, boar, wild dogs or cats)?

It would be a funny thing to see man trying to shoot a snake. Do you shoot mosquitoes too?

Quote
Shotguns and rifles are for hunting, but can be refitted for other applications such as military use, etc.

Yeah, "military use" does not require killing anyone.

Quote
What is wrong with being able to defend your daughter or wife against someone who is about to rape and kill them?  Nothing.  What is wrong with stopping a horrific crime in action in a public area?  Nothing.  What is wrong with eliminating the threat of violence in church?  Nothing.

From the Christian PON? I wouldn't be so sure.
emphasis added

Quote from PeterTheAleut:

But Mike never made that implication, which means you're reading that implication into what he wrote.

Please, pray tell, explain how accusing your opponents of using a firearm "as a sexual prosthesis" is not an attack on one's morality?
How do you get "Mike's opponents" out of his use of the phrase "some people"?

Wouldn't using a firearm as such a prosthesis constitute an act which upon which the Church would frown?
Do you not understand the use of irony and sarcasm as rhetorical devices?

Aside from being an improper personal attack, and not an argument either for, or against CCW in Church,
There's another thread open for the discussion of guns in church. This ain't it.

I also believe such inappropriate "arguments" are inappropriate in the public portion of this forum.
Then report it and let the mods decide. As I see it, and speaking from my perspective as a moderator, Mike has done nothing inappropriate on this thread. He has ridiculed absurd statements without attacking people, which is perfectly in keeping with the rules of the forum.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 04:14:49 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest.  
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.  

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.
A 410 shotgun was designed for the sole purpose of killing another human being?  Odd way of looking at it.  I disagree.
Not ALL guns are made for the sole purpose of killing another human being; some are made for hunting animals. But you cannot hold yourself immune to ridicule for making the blanket statement that guns are not made for killing people, for some guns are made specifically for that purpose.

I appreciate your honesty.  I have been waiting for someone to finally admit this much.  But, in truth its all in your approach.  You say some are designed specifically to kill people, which I would not argue (military grade weapons), however, someone may say they were designed to protect the weak and innocent.  The bottom line is, its all in the hands of the user, not the weapon itself.  
On that I agree. I will also agree with you that guns are not made to murder people.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 20, 2012, 04:37:13 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.

So, skeet shooting is not fulfilling the gun's destiny? Unfortunate.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 04:55:45 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest.  
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.  

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.

So, skeet shooting is not fulfilling the gun's destiny? Unfortunate.
You ever tried shooting clay pigeons with a machine gun, or shooting gophers with a .30-06?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 20, 2012, 04:57:09 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.

So, skeet shooting is not fulfilling the gun's destiny? Unfortunate.
You ever tried shooting clay pigeons with a machine gun?

You didn't specifically mention machine guns in your snarky blanket statement.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 05:20:33 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest.  
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.  

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.

So, skeet shooting is not fulfilling the gun's destiny? Unfortunate.
You ever tried shooting clay pigeons with a machine gun?

You didn't specifically mention machine guns in your snarky blanket statement.
Dude! Why is everyone so touchy today? :o

Please tell me you read how I qualified that "snarky blanket statement" some time afterward.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 20, 2012, 05:30:30 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest.  
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.  

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.

So, skeet shooting is not fulfilling the gun's destiny? Unfortunate.
You ever tried shooting clay pigeons with a machine gun?

You didn't specifically mention machine guns in your snarky blanket statement.
Dude! Why is everyone so touchy today? :o

Please tell me you read how I qualified that "snarky blanket statement" some time afterward.

I did.

But you should be consistent.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 05:33:06 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest.  
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.  

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.

So, skeet shooting is not fulfilling the gun's destiny? Unfortunate.
You ever tried shooting clay pigeons with a machine gun?

You didn't specifically mention machine guns in your snarky blanket statement.
Dude! Why is everyone so touchy today? :o

Please tell me you read how I qualified that "snarky blanket statement" some time afterward.

I did.

But you should be consistent.
I am being consistent.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 20, 2012, 05:39:52 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest.  
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.  

Sometimes it's useful to respond to ridicule with ridicule.
Indeed! Even though my opposition to most proposed gun control laws appears to put me at disagreement with Mike, I do agree with him that Kerdy's statement that guns are not made to kill anyone is totally absurd and deserving of ridicule. Guns ARE made to kill people.

So, skeet shooting is not fulfilling the gun's destiny? Unfortunate.
You ever tried shooting clay pigeons with a machine gun?

You didn't specifically mention machine guns in your snarky blanket statement.
Dude! Why is everyone so touchy today? :o

Please tell me you read how I qualified that "snarky blanket statement" some time afterward.

I did.

But you should be consistent.
I am being consistent.

LOL.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 20, 2012, 05:41:43 PM
You corrected yourself. Then you inserted machine guns. I called you on it. Then you referenced your self-correction, and yet bringing machine guns into the argument was inconsistent with your self-correction.

No big deal.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 20, 2012, 05:52:18 PM
You corrected yourself. Then you inserted machine guns. I called you on it. Then you referenced your self-correction, and yet bringing machine guns into the argument was inconsistent with your self-correction.
That's because you didn't understand that I was joking with you (but only with you) to make my other point that many of the posters on this thread have been way too anal today.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 20, 2012, 08:56:24 PM
For full disclosure purposes, if I seem anal it is due to one of two reasons. 

1) I perceive an attempt from someone to be disingenuous in some capacity (admittedly not always an accurate assessment).
2) There is a disconnect between what I think a person is saying and what they are actually trying to say.
I have found the second reason is most prevalent and sometimes take effort to realize, but I usually pick up fairly quickly the first.

I do my very best not to allow my emotions to get involved in my posts.  While I am not always successful, I normally succeed.  When emotions flair up, rational dialogue suffers and no one learns anything except how to use sarcasm with each other and that never accomplishes anything good.  But, I do understand the occasional snarky comment just because its fun.

So, if I appear overly anal or obtuse, I ask everyone to understand it is not intentional in most cases.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 20, 2012, 10:43:59 PM
You corrected yourself. Then you inserted machine guns. I called you on it. Then you referenced your self-correction, and yet bringing machine guns into the argument was inconsistent with your self-correction.
That's because you didn't understand that I was joking with you (but only with you) to make my other point that many of the posters on this thread have been way too anal today.

UGh!  All of you are being way to sexual about this!!!   ;D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 20, 2012, 11:23:48 PM
Firearms are not made to murder or kill anyone.

Some people use them as sexual prosthesises

Quote
How many people do you know who go hunting and carry a pistol for defense against wild animals (snakes, boar, wild dogs or cats)?

It would be a funny thing to see man trying to shoot a snake. Do you shoot mosquitoes too?

Quote
Shotguns and rifles are for hunting, but can be refitted for other applications such as military use, etc.

Yeah, "military use" does not require killing anyone.

Quote
What is wrong with being able to defend your daughter or wife against someone who is about to rape and kill them?  Nothing.  What is wrong with stopping a horrific crime in action in a public area?  Nothing.  What is wrong with eliminating the threat of violence in church?  Nothing.

From the Christian PON? I wouldn't be so sure.
emphasis added

Quote from PeterTheAleut:

But Mike never made that implication, which means you're reading that implication into what he wrote.

Please, pray tell, explain how accusing your opponents of using a firearm "as a sexual prosthesis" is not an attack on one's morality?
How do you get "Mike's opponents" out of his use of the phrase "some people"?

Wouldn't using a firearm as such a prosthesis constitute an act which upon which the Church would frown?
Do you not understand the use of irony and sarcasm as rhetorical devices?

Aside from being an improper personal attack, and not an argument either for, or against CCW in Church,
There's another thread open for the discussion of guns in church. This ain't it.

I also believe such inappropriate "arguments" are inappropriate in the public portion of this forum.
Then report it and let the mods decide. As I see it, and speaking from my perspective as a moderator, Mike has done nothing inappropriate on this thread. He has ridiculed absurd statements without attacking people, which is perfectly in keeping with the rules of the forum.
emphasis added

From Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

1op·po·nent noun \ə-ˈpō-nənt\

Definition of OPPONENT

1
: one that takes an opposite position (as in a debate, contest, or conflict)

If one argues a position opposite of another, then that person is an opponent on that issue.  Unlike some of my opponents, I do not conflate (i.e., confuse) the word "opponent" with the word "enemy".  I have enjoyed many long political and religious arguments with friends;  because I did not treat them as enemies for opposing my views in discussions/arguments (and vice-versa), we remained friends and we always look forward to more of these discussions/arguments.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 20, 2012, 11:41:37 PM
I gotta tell you, I love that this and the Batman movie shooting threads are right next to each other.

It's also interesting that Cinemark, the company that owns the Century 16 Theater in Aurora, apparently has a gun-free zone policy in all of its theaters.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: William on July 20, 2012, 11:59:42 PM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

Once a Marine.....I slept with mine also. Boot Camp and Vietnam....

You're a Vietnam vet?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on July 21, 2012, 09:54:33 AM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

This highlights a good point.  Did you ever have carnal (well, as carnal as steel and wood can be) relations with your rifle?  Did you ever fantasize about having a fulfilling relationship with your rifle?  Did you imagine having a house and a yard and a dog with your rifle, imagining how your little PtA/M14 hybrid children would look like?

Or is it entirely possible that to you the rifle was a tool?  Is it possible to you that there were non sexual reasons for you to have the rifle?  Perhaps sleeping with it had something to do with your training rather than some deep seated sexual desire for it?

Michal does not seem to accept that people who have firearms have them for non sexual reasons.  He seems to be incapable of separating sexual desire from other types of emotions.  It would be fascinating to learn what is the root of his extensive comparisons between firearms and phalluses.  It can be assumed that he is lacking in experience with firearms.  But why would this lack of experience be constantly coupled with something else?  Where did this connection come from?

This is hard for me to come to grasps with.  I mean, there are numerous females out there that I enjoy the company of but have no desire to view in a sexual manner - my mother, younger females that I have met, wives of people I respect...  I can talk to my mother and enjoy her company without sexualizing my relationship with her.  Likewise, I can sleep with a handgun next to my bed without thinking about it once in a sexual manner.  I wonder what causes Michal to hear about firearms and immediately jump to conclusions of a sexual nature?  It's kind of weird, to be honest. 
I have the same confusion, especially when one could attribute the same argument for practically everything in the world.  Pens, pencils, fingernail files, lamps, smoking pipes, cigars, rulers, levels, screwdrivers, and the endless list goes on.  A very confusing way of looking at life.

In an attempt to clear up your confusion, I believe this sexual theme was introduced by MKalina in an attempt to ridicule or silence, through shame, those with whom the poster disagreed.  When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.

If anyone has read my posts on firearms and their possession, you will see that I (and most, if not all, who agree with my position) have not personally attacked those with whom I disagree.  I have not questioned their personal morality the way some of the anti-gun folks have.  Pointing out perceived faults with, and even ridiculing, your opponents' ARGUMENTS, is different from calling into question your opponents' personal morality.   Such personal attacks are inappropriate,.   
Why are so many people so inclined to take arguments so personally?
emphasis added

I thought I was clear; however I shall try again.  An impersonal argument criticizing one's position or one's reasoning should not be taken personally.  A personal attack on one's morality should be taken personally.  Do you see the difference?  Implying that your opponent is a pervert because he disagrees with you on gun control is a personal attack, not an argument.



Mike is not a pervert because he believes in gun control.  A lot of very well adjusted people do not like guns.  My wife is one of them.  But most well adjusted people do not think of a penis every time they think of a gun.  I like guns.  I like them a lot.  But I have never thought of them as a penis substitute since it has been my experience that my penis brings me far more enjoyment than my pistols, and given the choice of using one or the other, I would certainly choose my penis.  I also do not think that my penis would have been nearly as effective in stopping the attempted crimes against my person and property that were successfully stopped with my firearms.  I suppose I could whip out my penis and see if it stops someone if I am accosted again.  However, I believe that the only chance that I would have would be if the perpetrator would die from laughing (or at least be disabled long enough for me to get away).  As to other aspects of my hobby as a sport, I do find that the endurance of my pistols is somewhat better than my penis since the rate of fire of even my slowest and hardest to load black powder revolver is much higher than the rate of fire of my penis. So, I am somewhat confused Mikes inability to discuss firearms without bringing up a penis.  I find this particularly confusing since I have seen some of the women from his part of the world, and a penis would be the LAST thing that I thought of if I lived there.  So, it is not Mike that we are lampooning.  It is his fixation on the firearm as a sexual object that strikes us as somewhat perverted.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on July 21, 2012, 10:05:29 AM
You ever tried shooting clay pigeons with a machine gun, or shooting gophers with a .30-06?

In the '70's, Remington made a round they called the "Accelerator" that consisted of a .22 cal saboted bullet loaded into a .30-06 cartridge.  I liked it because it allows one to use his pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester .30-06 for shooting gophers without having to spend a lot of money purchasing a similar rifle and scope combination in .22-250 for shooting gophers and ground hogs and other such varmints.

I never shot clay pigeons with a machine gun, just bowling pins.  However, in my younger and dumber days, I did shoot a duck out of the air with a .22 rifle.  I would not attempt to do that again for many safety, legal and other reasons.  However, it did rather impress the two guys that I was hunting with (rabbit hunting) that told me that they bet that I could not do it.  I have also shot a significant number of aluminium cans tossed in the air with a .38 cal revolver using wax bullets.  Ed McGivern was quite good at shooting glass balls (the precursor to clay pigeons) out of the air with a revolver.  One should not limit themselves to stereotypical conventions.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: JoeS2 on July 21, 2012, 10:48:13 AM
Wow... I actually agree with Michal Kalina. Thank God I live in an area without snakes and guns.

Have you ever thought about guns in a sexual way?
Back when I was a Marine, I would often sleep with my rifle.

Once a Marine.....I slept with mine also. Boot Camp and Vietnam....

You're a Vietnam vet?

Yes.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on July 23, 2012, 04:15:35 PM
Guns ARE made to kill people.

Does that mean that they can't kill anything else or that it was impossible that they were designed to kill something other than a human, such as a heavy caliber elephant rifle or a .17 cal varmint rifle?

Either way, I MUST be doing something wrong!

I've been shooting firearms for over 35 years and I've never killed anything! I have put lots of holes in paper and clay targets, but that's not the same thing really.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on July 23, 2012, 04:17:10 PM
I gotta tell you, I love that this and the Batman movie shooting threads are right next to each other.

It's also interesting that Cinemark, the company that owns the Century 16 Theater in Aurora, apparently has a gun-free zone policy in all of its theaters.

The city of Aurora CO also forbids carrying CCW into public places.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on July 23, 2012, 04:23:42 PM
I have recently come to the conclusion that we as civilians do not need anything more than shotguns, pistols, and hunting rifles. As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on July 23, 2012, 04:26:12 PM
Hmm...

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/LOLPhallicSymbolism.jpg)


“A gun is psychologically a penis-substitute and a symbol of power: the age-range of toy-shop clientele begins at about six or seven, rises sharply just before puberty and declines soon after the discovery of the phallus and its promise of power. From then on, guns are for kids and for the effete freaks and misfits who must seek psycho-orgasmic relief by shooting pheasants.”
― Adam Hall, The Quiller Memorandum

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/75699-a-gun-is-psychologically-a-penis-substitute-and-a-symbol-of

I'll lend some small credence to his theory only after he supplies a videotape of him downing a pheasant in flight using only his penis.

Some of these intellectuals forget that some people still hunt in order to eat!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on July 23, 2012, 04:27:24 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 23, 2012, 04:27:48 PM
How do you hunt for nuggets?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 23, 2012, 04:35:47 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

Beat me to the punch, but here's another:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woo_Bum-kon#Uiryeong_massacre

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on July 23, 2012, 04:40:47 PM
Some people use them as sexual prosthesises
You appear to have a severe preoccupation with this analogy (as do some others).  What percentage of the world population do you believe uses guns in this way?  My guess would be around 0.0006%, or so, and that is being liberal.  In addition, your comment had very little, if anything, to do with the comment to which you replied.

I have to believe that this is being used in the same way as some folks who yell "Racist!" when you mention that you oppose some policy from Pres. 0bama. It's not really a fact or a cohesive argument, it's just an insult designed to make you go away, thereby allowing them to think they've won the argument.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on July 23, 2012, 04:41:15 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on July 23, 2012, 04:42:37 PM
How do you hunt for nuggets?
I don't know, how do you?

Although I haven't hunted them, I've known people to make meals of deer, squirrel, groundhog, rabbit, pheasant, wild turkey, and even morning doves.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on July 23, 2012, 04:45:13 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Tell it to the Vietnamese.

Are you assuming that there wouldn't be large numbers of desertions by military personnel after receiving the illegal orders to attack American civilians?

Perhaps you should reconsider who actually comprises the American armed forces and where these folks come from. You'd actually be trying to get them to attack their own families.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 23, 2012, 04:50:18 PM
I wonder how your shotguns would respond to that:

(http://renovomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nuclear_terrorist_attack.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on July 23, 2012, 04:53:53 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Tell it to the Vietnamese.

Are you assuming that there wouldn't be large numbers of desertions by military personnel after receiving the illegal orders to attack American civilians?

Perhaps you should reconsider who actually comprises the American armed forces and where these folks come from. You'd actually be trying to get them to attack their own families.

Well, the concern about hurting their own citizens didn't stop the tanks from rolling through Tiananmen. In this case, we would be relying upon the good conscience of the soldiers to not carry out the orders of their superiors, which has nothing to do with the guns that we as civilians possess. Personal safety (fearing our guns) is not a concern for the military, as most orders can be carried out with little or no risk to the soldier (aircraft, UAV, surface to air missiles, etc.) Even with defections, there will always be the faithful who carry out orders, and the rest wouldn't stand a chance (it just takes one guy with his finger on the nuclear buttons, after all). Our best bet would be to hope that other countries would come to our protection if our own government turned against us.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 23, 2012, 05:18:36 PM
I wonder how your shotguns would respond to that:

(http://renovomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nuclear_terrorist_attack.jpg)
As I asked you earlier, either on this thread or on another: Do you have anything of real substance to contribute to this discussion? So far all you've done is attempt to horrify us with absurd images.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 23, 2012, 05:25:44 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Which is why the National Guard exists, but people seem to have forgotten that.  They are to protect their individual state.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 23, 2012, 05:27:22 PM
I wonder how your shotguns would respond to that:

(http://renovomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nuclear_terrorist_attack.jpg)

Atomic weaponry is ok, but not guns?  ???
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 23, 2012, 05:28:58 PM
Atomic weaponry is ok, but not guns?  ???

One of your arguments for guns is that they would help you to fight the government it they attacked you. I wonder how would they help you to deal with a nuclear launch.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on July 23, 2012, 05:33:22 PM
I wonder how your shotguns would respond to that:

(http://renovomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/nuclear_terrorist_attack.jpg)

Better than a defenseless man on his knees begging for mercy.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 23, 2012, 05:36:48 PM
Hmm...

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/LOLPhallicSymbolism.jpg)


“A gun is psychologically a penis-substitute and a symbol of power: the age-range of toy-shop clientele begins at about six or seven, rises sharply just before puberty and declines soon after the discovery of the phallus and its promise of power. From then on, guns are for kids and for the effete freaks and misfits who must seek psycho-orgasmic relief by shooting pheasants.”
― Adam Hall, The Quiller Memorandum

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/75699-a-gun-is-psychologically-a-penis-substitute-and-a-symbol-of

I'm still shocked that somebody in Poland which was taken by the Nazi's in what (27 or so days?) would be against firearms.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 23, 2012, 05:38:17 PM
Atomic weaponry is ok, but not guns?  ???

One of your arguments for guns is that they would help you to fight the government it they attacked you. I wonder how would they help you to deal with a nuclear launch.

So, you think the government would bomb its own backyard, killing them as well, or at the very least, making the area uninhabitable and the areas where the fallout travels, which defeats the entire purpose of engaging in domestic warfare in the first place?  Not to mention, if they did this, the entire nation would rise against them and yes, guns would certainly come in handy at that point.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 23, 2012, 05:39:13 PM
Atomic weaponry is ok, but not guns?  ???

One of your arguments for guns is that they would help you to fight the government it they attacked you. I wonder how would they help you to deal with a nuclear launch.

The government would not attack its own people with nukes and if it did, it would destroy itself.   A government is nothing without the people behind it.   A government would however attack its people through means of intimidation, detainment, and threat.


Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on July 23, 2012, 05:40:57 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Which is why the National Guard exists, but people seem to have forgotten that.  They are to protect their individual state.

Hmm I'm pretty sure the President can give the order to the National Guard at the federal level to "suppress insurrection" in a given state.

Quote
Interference with State and Federal law.
 The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States

Regardless of this, the point is that even with assault rifles, civilians stand no chance against against the government if they decided to attack us.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 23, 2012, 05:42:08 PM
Atomic weaponry is ok, but not guns?  ???

One of your arguments for guns is that they would help you to fight the government it they attacked you. I wonder how would they help you to deal with a nuclear launch.

The government would not attack its own people with nukes and if it did, it would destroy itself.   A government is nothing without the people behind it.   A government would however attack its people through means of intimidation, detainment, and threat.




If the government really did detach from the rails, it would use conventional weapons (guns, grenades, bombs and missiles), but to think it would use what we know as NBC tactics is silly.  There is no point in winning a battle if you kill yourself.  
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 23, 2012, 05:42:22 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Tell it to the Vietnamese.

Are you assuming that there wouldn't be large numbers of desertions by military personnel after receiving the illegal orders to attack American civilians?

Perhaps you should reconsider who actually comprises the American armed forces and where these folks come from. You'd actually be trying to get them to attack their own families.

Well, the concern about hurting their own citizens didn't stop the tanks from rolling through Tiananmen. In this case, we would be relying upon the good conscience of the soldiers to not carry out the orders of their superiors, which has nothing to do with the guns that we as civilians possess. Personal safety (fearing our guns) is not a concern for the military, as most orders can be carried out with little or no risk to the soldier (aircraft, UAV, surface to air missiles, etc.) Even with defections, there will always be the faithful who carry out orders, and the rest wouldn't stand a chance (it just takes one guy with his finger on the nuclear buttons, after all). Our best bet would be to hope that other countries would come to our protection if our own government turned against us.

The US military has generally been pretty good about ignoring guerrilla warfare, which is especially interesting seeing as it was what gave us many of our initial leg ups in our revolution.  In any initial battles the government forces would destroy any and all visible opposition.  After that, I tend to give the US military about 10 years.  Afghanistan is going a little long, but with Vietnam and Iraq I see a decade being a good expiration date.  The day to day bombings and small ambushes take their toll.  In addition, public opinion hurts our war efforts.  What happens when it is American citizens dying every day?  Bystanders, soldiers, collaborators, guerrillas, etc?  Not to mention, the families of government officials and soldiers would not be protected by two large oceans.  The enemy would be in their back yard.

Honestly, I think the US government wants to fight a guerrilla war on US soil about as much as I do...that is, not at all!  I personally think within the next couple decades we'll see a 'revolution' at the ballot box before we see one in the streets.  It's only a matter of time before there is a Tea Party / OWS type group that says "screw it" to both parties.

EDIT - My intent with the TP/OWS comment is not to be political, just looking at examples of non-violent movements we have had in the US in an historical context.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 23, 2012, 05:43:02 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Which is why the National Guard exists, but people seem to have forgotten that.  They are to protect their individual state.

Hmm I'm pretty sure the President can give the order to the National Guard at the federal level to "suppress insurrection" in a given state.

Quote
Interference with State and Federal law.
 The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States

Regardless of this, the point is that even with assault rifles, civilians stand no chance against against the government if they decided to attack us.



I do not agree.

Here in Texas there are people that have tank stoppers, artillery, and machine guns.  Also I believe our military for the most part would not turn on its people.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 23, 2012, 05:43:55 PM
Heh
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JSpbgoKp8LA/SyawL0qWI8I/AAAAAAAAG6U/6_yT0luu1FE/s400/ExpertsAgree_GunControlWorks.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Ortho_cat on July 23, 2012, 05:46:03 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Which is why the National Guard exists, but people seem to have forgotten that.  They are to protect their individual state.

Hmm I'm pretty sure the President can give the order to the National Guard at the federal level to "suppress insurrection" in a given state.

Quote
Interference with State and Federal law.
 The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States

Regardless of this, the point is that even with assault rifles, civilians stand no chance against against the government if they decided to attack us.



I do not agree.

Here in Texas there are people that have tank stoppers, artillery, and machine guns.  Also I believe our military for the most part would not turn on its people.



Those are no match for Predator drones. Like I said, the US military is better trained, better organized, and better equipped at every level. So if you don't think our military would turn on us, and if it wouldn't make any difference even if they did, then why do we as civilians need to own assault rifles other than because they look cool?

I don't have to remind people that this isn't the civil war era...
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 23, 2012, 05:47:48 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Which is why the National Guard exists, but people seem to have forgotten that.  They are to protect their individual state.

Hmm I'm pretty sure the President can give the order to the National Guard at the federal level to "suppress insurrection" in a given state.

Quote
Interference with State and Federal law.
 The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States

Regardless of this, the point is that even with assault rifles, civilians stand no chance against against the government if they decided to attack us.



The power of the National Guard falls under the office of that states Governor, unless activated under Title 10.  but you have to ask yourself if anything like this really happened, would your neighbor Bob do what a crazed government told him to do, or protect his own neighborhood, with all the weapons at the Guards disposal.

I think you would be surprised at what normal everyday citizens can do, especially considering how many of them have had previous military training.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Paisius on July 23, 2012, 05:48:52 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

I don't know. These guys,

(http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/image/2009/specialfeatures/Advisory%20Board%20War%20Photos/Moore%5BMain%5D.jpg)


Were run out of Afghanistan in humiliation by these guys.


(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nS070h3WcXk/T2T8oqdDZVI/AAAAAAAAEW8/Fa18SnxVCuY/s1600/Soviets.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 23, 2012, 05:53:56 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Which is why the National Guard exists, but people seem to have forgotten that.  They are to protect their individual state.

Hmm I'm pretty sure the President can give the order to the National Guard at the federal level to "suppress insurrection" in a given state.

Quote
Interference with State and Federal law.
 The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States

Regardless of this, the point is that even with assault rifles, civilians stand no chance against against the government if they decided to attack us.



I do not agree.

Here in Texas there are people that have tank stoppers, artillery, and machine guns.  Also I believe our military for the most part would not turn on its people.



Those are no match for Predator drones. Like I said, the US military is better trained, better organized, and better equipped at every level. So if you don't think our military would turn on us, and if it wouldn't make any difference even if they did, then why do we as civilians need to own assault rifles other than because they look cool?

I don't have to remind people that this isn't the civil war era...

Ask MK what happened in his country in 1939.

I hate to differ though, I do believe that a tank stopper could take down a predator drone....
I don't think many people realize how armed some Americans are -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXIslOxMfGA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXIslOxMfGA)  (The fun begins at 5:05)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 23, 2012, 05:58:04 PM
Ask MK what happened in his country in 1939.

Germans and Russians took it over.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 23, 2012, 06:02:23 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Which is why the National Guard exists, but people seem to have forgotten that.  They are to protect their individual state.

Hmm I'm pretty sure the President can give the order to the National Guard at the federal level to "suppress insurrection" in a given state.

Quote
Interference with State and Federal law.
 The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States

Regardless of this, the point is that even with assault rifles, civilians stand no chance against against the government if they decided to attack us.



I do not agree.

Here in Texas there are people that have tank stoppers, artillery, and machine guns.  Also I believe our military for the most part would not turn on its people.



Those are no match for Predator drones. Like I said, the US military is better trained, better organized, and better equipped at every level. So if you don't think our military would turn on us, and if it wouldn't make any difference even if they did, then why do we as civilians need to own assault rifles other than because they look cool?

I don't have to remind people that this isn't the civil war era...

Ask MK what happened in his country in 1939.

I hate to differ though, I do believe that a tank stopper could take down a predator drone....
I don't think many people realize how armed some Americans are -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXIslOxMfGA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXIslOxMfGA)  (The fun begins at 5:05)

America is far too high tech for any serious worries.  The only way to stop it would be shutting down the entire grid.  If they didn’t, every hacker in the nation would be crippling everything aimed at the citizens.  The government wouldn’t have a chance.  Drones would be falling from the sky and getting taken over by the citizens to return them in force to their origin.  Anyone who really things the government could attack the citizens in the US and win are fooling themselves.  At least until they take away our defenses.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 23, 2012, 06:03:42 PM
Ask MK what happened in his country in 1939.

Germans and Russians took it over.

The Polish should have been heavily armed and had militia, I don't doubt the bravery of Polish men, but they didn't have much to fight with.  If they had assault rifles that could penetrate tank armour, bazookas, or even explosive materials, history may have been changed.   This is a dangerous world we live in...   Countries do invade each other.  The USA has almost all of its troops overseas, yet no country would dare invade because they'd be getting picked off from every direction.   Just check the video I posted above.   There are people here with that kind of firepower, more than most would think.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 23, 2012, 06:06:47 PM
As far as i'm concerned, everything else should be reserved for military and LEO's.
Like the Chinese did at Tianammen Square?

If the US military decided to take on the civilian population, they would win every time. They are highly trained killing machines with the most sophisticated weaponology known to man that can be swiftly executed by air, land and sea. Thinking that a few million people armed with assault rifles will change any of that is simply delusion.

Which is why the National Guard exists, but people seem to have forgotten that.  They are to protect their individual state.

Hmm I'm pretty sure the President can give the order to the National Guard at the federal level to "suppress insurrection" in a given state.

Quote
Interference with State and Federal law.
 The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States

Regardless of this, the point is that even with assault rifles, civilians stand no chance against against the government if they decided to attack us.



I do not agree.

Here in Texas there are people that have tank stoppers, artillery, and machine guns.  Also I believe our military for the most part would not turn on its people.



Those are no match for Predator drones. Like I said, the US military is better trained, better organized, and better equipped at every level. So if you don't think our military would turn on us, and if it wouldn't make any difference even if they did, then why do we as civilians need to own assault rifles other than because they look cool?

I don't have to remind people that this isn't the civil war era...

Ask MK what happened in his country in 1939.

I hate to differ though, I do believe that a tank stopper could take down a predator drone....
I don't think many people realize how armed some Americans are -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXIslOxMfGA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXIslOxMfGA)  (The fun begins at 5:05)

America is far too high tech for any serious worries.  The only way to stop it would be shutting down the entire grid.  If they didn’t, every hacker in the nation would be crippling everything aimed at the citizens.  The government wouldn’t have a chance.  Drones would be falling from the sky and getting taken over by the citizens to return them in force to their origin.  Anyone who really things the government could attack the citizens in the US and win are fooling themselves.  At least until they take away our defenses.

I also believe that local police would defend the people if the federal govt turned on us violently.  Especially county sheriffs.

People were downloading drone images via FTA satellite not 2 years ago. LOL!!!!  With a program called "skygrabber".
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on July 23, 2012, 06:12:25 PM
I have a serious gun question for the experts on this board but I wouldn't want to interrupt such a stimulating conversation here.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on July 23, 2012, 10:21:12 PM
Hmm...

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/LOLPhallicSymbolism.jpg)


“A gun is psychologically a penis-substitute and a symbol of power: the age-range of toy-shop clientele begins at about six or seven, rises sharply just before puberty and declines soon after the discovery of the phallus and its promise of power. From then on, guns are for kids and for the effete freaks and misfits who must seek psycho-orgasmic relief by shooting pheasants.”
― Adam Hall, The Quiller Memorandum

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/75699-a-gun-is-psychologically-a-penis-substitute-and-a-symbol-of

I'm still shocked that somebody in Poland which was taken by the Nazi's in what (27 or so days?) would be against firearms.



Now you know why we joke about them.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on July 23, 2012, 10:29:08 PM
Hmm...

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/LOLPhallicSymbolism.jpg)


“A gun is psychologically a penis-substitute and a symbol of power: the age-range of toy-shop clientele begins at about six or seven, rises sharply just before puberty and declines soon after the discovery of the phallus and its promise of power. From then on, guns are for kids and for the effete freaks and misfits who must seek psycho-orgasmic relief by shooting pheasants.”
― Adam Hall, The Quiller Memorandum

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/75699-a-gun-is-psychologically-a-penis-substitute-and-a-symbol-of

I'm still shocked that somebody in Poland which was taken by the Nazi's in what (27 or so days?) would be against firearms.


It does provide endless lulz doesn't it?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 23, 2012, 11:25:08 PM
Hmm...

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/LOLPhallicSymbolism.jpg)


“A gun is psychologically a penis-substitute and a symbol of power: the age-range of toy-shop clientele begins at about six or seven, rises sharply just before puberty and declines soon after the discovery of the phallus and its promise of power. From then on, guns are for kids and for the effete freaks and misfits who must seek psycho-orgasmic relief by shooting pheasants.”
― Adam Hall, The Quiller Memorandum

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/75699-a-gun-is-psychologically-a-penis-substitute-and-a-symbol-of

I'm still shocked that somebody in Poland which was taken by the Nazi's in what (27 or so days?) would be against firearms.


It does provide endless lulz doesn't it?

The historian in me wants to set right some of the things commonly said about Poland in WWII...but oh well.

BTW, PM either Punch or me your serious gun question, or hit me up on FB.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on July 23, 2012, 11:54:59 PM
Yeah I don't want you to ruin the fun with your history :D

PS see my ridiculous question in your PM.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 24, 2012, 07:15:43 AM
I'm still shocked that somebody in Poland which was taken by the Nazi's in what (27 or so days?) would be against firearms.

The Warsaw Uprising shown how successful are amateurs with guns against regular army.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 24, 2012, 09:09:22 AM
I'm still shocked that somebody in Poland which was taken by the Nazi's in what (27 or so days?) would be against firearms.

The Warsaw Uprising shown how successful are amateurs with guns against regular army.

My understanding is that the Poles in Warsaw were very poorly armed (in numbers), yet still bravely held out for two months against a much more heavily armed German Army.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 24, 2012, 09:12:50 AM
My understanding is that the Poles in Warsaw were very poorly armed (in numbers), yet still bravely held out for two months against a much more heavily armed German Army.

And caused the demolition of the city and a massacre of the civilians.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 24, 2012, 09:13:11 AM
I'm still shocked that somebody in Poland which was taken by the Nazi's in what (27 or so days?) would be against firearms.

The Warsaw Uprising shown how successful are amateurs with guns against regular army.

The ones at Auschwitz were much more successful, weren't they?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 24, 2012, 09:53:38 AM
The ones at Auschwitz were much more successful, weren't they?

They were exactly successful alike.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on July 24, 2012, 02:43:30 PM
The ones at Auschwitz were much more successful, weren't they?

They were exactly successful alike.

Except that they died resisting their killers.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 24, 2012, 02:48:53 PM
The ones at Auschwitz were much more successful, weren't they?

They were exactly successful alike.

Except that they died resisting their killers.

And made 120 - 200 k civilians to die with them too.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 24, 2012, 03:06:55 PM
My understanding is that the Poles in Warsaw were very poorly armed (in numbers), yet still bravely held out for two months against a much more heavily armed German Army.

And caused the demolition of the city and a massacre of the civilians.
emphasis added

Sorry, but I fail to see how the Poles should be blamed for the atrocities carried out by the Germans after the battle was over.

I also think that Stalin's unexplained delays in coming to the Poles' aid, and in trying to prevent or at least delay aid from other allies, are much more to blame for the outcome than the freedom fighters.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 24, 2012, 03:07:38 PM
My understanding is that the Poles in Warsaw were very poorly armed (in numbers), yet still bravely held out for two months against a much more heavily armed German Army.

And caused the demolition of the city and a massacre of the civilians.

This isn't fair logic.  The uprising happened AFTER they were occupied.  This is not the same as when an army first invades a country.  An uprising consists of sneaking around, arming people where you can etc.    Lots of hidden codes, sign languages, and sneaky communication.

I am talking on initial invasion.  There are a LOT of Americans armed as shown in the video above.  I'm somewhat one of them.  Most of my guns can be made fully automatic in less than 5 minutes.  I even have .223 m885 ammunition that has a steel core for punching holes in vehicles, body armor, or thick bone for large game.  All of this is legal.

3 of my children and my wife all know how to shoot, and I own enough firearms to put one in every member's hands in my home.

I believe that Americans are far superior in terms of being armed, than the Warsaw uprising after being oppressed...

Like I said, I don't doubt the bravery of those in Poland, but ask anybody on this forum.... If China Blitzed the USA, they'd be having a battle on every single street in American suburbs, battles in the country, and battles in the city.   Many windows would be open with shooters.  They'd be fought in the forest, mountains, highways, and back roads.  It would be a horrible day on all sides, but I really don't think we could be taken.  I do not believe it would be the same.  I believe the Polish civilians would have fought long and hard, but unfortunately they weren't packing enough in terms of firearms.  

I really think it was not out of stupidity or anything like that either... But probably more "why the heck would anybody invade us up here"...
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 24, 2012, 03:16:13 PM
My understanding is that the Poles in Warsaw were very poorly armed (in numbers), yet still bravely held out for two months against a much more heavily armed German Army.

And caused the demolition of the city and a massacre of the civilians.
emphasis added

Sorry, but I fail to see how the Poles should be blamed for the atrocities carried out by the Germans after the battle was over.

I also think that Stalin's unexplained delays in coming to the Poles' aid, and in trying to prevent or at least delay aid from other allies, are much more to blame for the outcome than the freedom fighters.

The Uprising shouldn't have broken out.

It was obvious Stalin won't help, the Uprising won't succeed and the Germans would revenge.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 24, 2012, 05:48:29 PM
My understanding is that the Poles in Warsaw were very poorly armed (in numbers), yet still bravely held out for two months against a much more heavily armed German Army.

And caused the demolition of the city and a massacre of the civilians.
emphasis added

Sorry, but I fail to see how the Poles should be blamed for the atrocities carried out by the Germans after the battle was over.

I also think that Stalin's unexplained delays in coming to the Poles' aid, and in trying to prevent or at least delay aid from other allies, are much more to blame for the outcome than the freedom fighters.

The Uprising shouldn't have broken out.

It was obvious Stalin won't help, the Uprising won't succeed and the Germans would revenge.

Everything is obvious in hindsight.  ;)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 24, 2012, 06:09:22 PM
The ones at Auschwitz were much more successful, weren't they?

They were exactly successful alike.

I have further come to the conclusion that we have completely different worldviews.  Those men of the AK who died weren't herded into cattle cars, worked until starvation, striped of their human dignity, and then herded again into gas chambers once their usefulness ended.  They fought and they died.

Then again, you even admit in your sig that you are not a Pole.  It wasn't your ancestors that fought to the end at Wizna.  It wasn't your ancestors in the 10th Mechanized who escaped to France to fight again.  It wasn't your ancestors who broke the Enigma code, flew and fought over the skies of Britain to defend their people, who parachuted into Arnhem, who fought in the streets and in the woods of their occupied homeland.  You just live in a country watered by their blood.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on July 24, 2012, 06:17:55 PM
The ones at Auschwitz were much more successful, weren't they?

They were exactly successful alike.

I have further come to the conclusion that we have completely different worldviews.  Those men of the AK who died weren't herded into cattle cars, worked until starvation, striped of their human dignity, and then herded again into gas chambers once their usefulness ended.  They fought and they died.

Then again, you even admit in your sig that you are not a Pole.  It wasn't your ancestors that fought to the end at Wizna.  It wasn't your ancestors in the 10th Mechanized who escaped to France to fight again.  It wasn't your ancestors who broke the Enigma code, flew and fought over the skies of Britain to defend their people, who parachuted into Arnhem, who fought in the streets and in the woods of their occupied homeland.  You just live in a country watered by their blood.

Not quite so fast.  You are sort of rehashing the core differences in visions between Pilsuski and Dmowski.   The former certainly would not have made your statements about a Polish citizen who weren't ethnically Polish.  Way to endorse Blut und Boden. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 24, 2012, 06:18:10 PM
But still in context of the thread, I believe that a very well armed people of a country, could keep invaders out, and their government in check if needs be.  Yes, governments generally have larger and more technical weapons, but we must consider what the Taliban has been taking on for over a decade now with horses, swords, AK-47's, not many structures, just mountains..... mines....  Some RPG's...

In America, there are buildings, brick homes, sewers, stores, and many "sneaky spots" that are man made.  Also, mountains, forests, deserts, and plains.   Lots of diversity.  I think guns are very important to all free people.  Sure I wish there were none, in a happy smiley face cotton ball world.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on July 24, 2012, 06:32:50 PM
I think that Vamrat was making the point that a true Pole is not a coward.  More a case of Blut und Ehre.

The ones at Auschwitz were much more successful, weren't they?

They were exactly successful alike.

I have further come to the conclusion that we have completely different worldviews.  Those men of the AK who died weren't herded into cattle cars, worked until starvation, striped of their human dignity, and then herded again into gas chambers once their usefulness ended.  They fought and they died.

Then again, you even admit in your sig that you are not a Pole.  It wasn't your ancestors that fought to the end at Wizna.  It wasn't your ancestors in the 10th Mechanized who escaped to France to fight again.  It wasn't your ancestors who broke the Enigma code, flew and fought over the skies of Britain to defend their people, who parachuted into Arnhem, who fought in the streets and in the woods of their occupied homeland.  You just live in a country watered by their blood.

Not quite so fast.  You are sort of rehashing the core differences in visions between Pilsuski and Dmowski.   The former certainly would not have made your statements about a Polish citizen who weren't ethnically Polish.  Way to endorse Blut und Boden. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on July 24, 2012, 06:44:07 PM
I think that Vamrat was making the point that a true Pole is not a coward.  More a case of Blut und Ehre.

Mythology aside, there were plenty of Polish collaborators.  Obviously the AK would have been my choice were I in such a situation, but even this is flawed.  My Grandfather would also tell me that they were quite constrained by the fact that any killings of German soldiers meant the execution of Polish civilians.  The policies of the Second Republic failed the Polish people - had such not happened there would have been no need for AK in the first place.       
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on July 24, 2012, 09:45:41 PM
(http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/285016_S/velociraptor-riding-a-shark.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on July 24, 2012, 09:47:42 PM
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kzedpglh861qbsy3eo1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 24, 2012, 09:48:49 PM
(http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/285016_S/velociraptor-riding-a-shark.jpg)

Well played, sir.  Well played!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on July 24, 2012, 09:54:09 PM
(http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/285016_S/velociraptor-riding-a-shark.jpg)

Well played, sir.  Well played!

Our oldest son wants this on a T-shirt for Christmas for him and his baby brother. My husband wants one too. :D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 24, 2012, 09:56:22 PM
(http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/285016_S/velociraptor-riding-a-shark.jpg)

Well played, sir.  Well played!

Our oldest son wants this on a T-shirt for Christmas for him and his baby brother. My husband wants one too. :D

Then I should have said "ma'am," my apologies.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on July 24, 2012, 09:56:36 PM
For the Reagan fans;

(http://www.damndirtyrino.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Reagan-Velociraptor.jpg)
http://www.etsy.com/listing/103439690/ronald-reagan-riding-a-velociraptor-hq
No problem on the gender mistake.


Is there anything more awesome than dinosaurs with guns!? ;D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Quinault on July 24, 2012, 10:02:28 PM
Oooh! Teddy Roosevelt vs Bigfoot!
http://www.etsy.com/listing/71032331/teddy-roosevelt-vs-bigfoot-print
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on July 24, 2012, 10:24:57 PM
Some people use them as sexual prosthesises

I found this and thought it worthy to be posted.  Not saying I agree, but it seemed to fit the discussion.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
 - Sigmund Freud
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 24, 2012, 11:39:42 PM
I think that Vamrat was making the point that a true Pole is not a coward.  More a case of Blut und Ehre.

Mythology aside, there were plenty of Polish collaborators.  Obviously the AK would have been my choice were I in such a situation, but even this is flawed.  My Grandfather would also tell me that they were quite constrained by the fact that any killings of German soldiers meant the execution of Polish civilians.  The policies of the Second Republic failed the Polish people - had such not happened there would have been no need for AK in the first place.       

The fear of reprisals played heavily in the Chetnik tactics in Yugoslavia - basically, hold out until the allies won the war, collaborating where it saved Serbian lives from their numerous enemies.  This played part in leading Churchill to prefer the Partisans over the Chetniks.  I can certainly see your point, though in the Poles defense, it may very well have seemed in their best interests to end Nazi occupation as soon as possible.

Regarding your previous comment, I really don't know enough about either Pilsudski or Dmowski to answer you regarding them.

I would be interested in hearing how the Second Republic's policies failed the Polish people in the war.  They fought hard against the Germans but facing the Soviets as well was too much.  Perhaps you are referring to their antagonizing both nations right after WWI?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on July 25, 2012, 01:37:03 AM
Then again, you even admit in your sig that you are not a Pole.  It wasn't your ancestors that fought to the end at Wizna.  It wasn't your ancestors in the 10th Mechanized who escaped to France to fight again.  It wasn't your ancestors who broke the Enigma code, flew and fought over the skies of Britain to defend their people, who parachuted into Arnhem, who fought in the streets and in the woods of their occupied homeland.  You just live in a country watered by their blood.

My grandfather's brother fought in the Anders' army so you are wrong (again).
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on July 25, 2012, 03:38:42 AM
Regarding your previous comment, I really don't know enough about either Pilsudski or Dmowski to answer you regarding them.

This gets at the heart of assertion and Michal's claim to not be Polish.  Forgive the VAST oversimplification but Pilsudski saw Poland as being a multi-ethnic, multi-confessional Republic.  In that sense to be Polish was a civic identity, not necessary Roman Catholic and ethnically Polish.  Pilsudski wasn't opposed to education in local languages, development of local cultures, etc.  Dmowski was more a nationalist along the Croatian lines of the nationstate ought to be ethnically pure and monolithically Catholic.  Pilsudski's won the battle over territory and thus many ethnically mixed areas (i.e the Kresy) were included in the Second Republic.  Unfortunately Dmowski style policies were implemented, which made it simply a matter of time until Poland would lose these territories.       

I would be interested in hearing how the Second Republic's policies failed the Polish people in the war.  They fought hard against the Germans but facing the Soviets as well was too much.  Perhaps you are referring to their antagonizing both nations right after WWI?

Poland had petty and antagonistic disputes with all of its neighbors save Romania during the inter-war period.  Had this not been the case, a collective security arrangement could have been possible in Central Europe.  Bravery and Rambo fantasies are good for those not personally affected, but I'd prefer solid diplomacy that prevents war. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on July 25, 2012, 09:06:06 AM
Then again, you even admit in your sig that you are not a Pole.  It wasn't your ancestors that fought to the end at Wizna.  It wasn't your ancestors in the 10th Mechanized who escaped to France to fight again.  It wasn't your ancestors who broke the Enigma code, flew and fought over the skies of Britain to defend their people, who parachuted into Arnhem, who fought in the streets and in the woods of their occupied homeland.  You just live in a country watered by their blood.

My grandfather's brother fought in the Anders' army so you are wrong (again).

Sometimes the apples rolls farther from the tree than expected.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Bigsinner on July 25, 2012, 11:25:48 AM
Then again, you even admit in your sig that you are not a Pole.  It wasn't your ancestors that fought to the end at Wizna.  It wasn't your ancestors in the 10th Mechanized who escaped to France to fight again.  It wasn't your ancestors who broke the Enigma code, flew and fought over the skies of Britain to defend their people, who parachuted into Arnhem, who fought in the streets and in the woods of their occupied homeland.  You just live in a country watered by their blood.

My grandfather's brother fought in the Anders' army so you are wrong (again).

Sometimes the apples rolls farther from the tree than expected.

^   :D  :D  :D  Talk about understatement!  ;)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on July 25, 2012, 07:00:26 PM
  Bravery and Rambo fantasies are good for those not personally affected, but I'd prefer solid diplomacy that prevents war. 

It may surprise you, but I agree with this completely.  I would only caveat it by adding "as long as it truly prevents a war, and not just postpones it to the advantage of the enemy".  But then again, you did write "solid" diplomacy, so you had that covered.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on July 25, 2012, 07:01:04 PM
Then again, you even admit in your sig that you are not a Pole.  It wasn't your ancestors that fought to the end at Wizna.  It wasn't your ancestors in the 10th Mechanized who escaped to France to fight again.  It wasn't your ancestors who broke the Enigma code, flew and fought over the skies of Britain to defend their people, who parachuted into Arnhem, who fought in the streets and in the woods of their occupied homeland.  You just live in a country watered by their blood.

My grandfather's brother fought in the Anders' army so you are wrong (again).

Sometimes the apples rolls farther from the tree than expected.

LOL
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: ZealousZeal on July 25, 2012, 10:16:49 PM
This has nothing to do with guns, but:

Punch! Nice to "see" you! I was wondering about you the other day since I hadn't seen you around in a while.  :)

As you were.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on July 26, 2012, 04:16:54 PM
This has nothing to do with guns, but:

Punch! Nice to "see" you! I was wondering about you the other day since I hadn't seen you around in a while.  :)

As you were.

Why thank you.  It is always a pleasure "seeing" you here, too.  I got burned out on the "religious" side of this forum, so I have been lurking here on the "gun" side. I have also been very busy at work.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on July 27, 2012, 01:48:52 AM
This has nothing to do with guns, but:

Punch! Nice to "see" you! I was wondering about you the other day since I hadn't seen you around in a while.  :)

As you were.

Why thank you.  It is always a pleasure "seeing" you here, too.  I got burned out on the "religious" side of this forum, so I have been lurking here on the "gun" side. I have also been very busy at work.

These sorts of things distort how we view each other, I think.  I also have mostly given up posting and even reading about religious topics here.  It is too personal of a topic.  I don't feel comfortable talking about such with mostly strangers.  So this leaves me to post mostly about linguistics, cultural quarks and food.  While I enjoy talking about those in real life, I don't do so nearly to the proportions that I do here. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 27, 2012, 07:28:42 PM
This has nothing to do with guns, but:

Punch! Nice to "see" you! I was wondering about you the other day since I hadn't seen you around in a while.  :)

As you were.

Why thank you.  It is always a pleasure "seeing" you here, too.  I got burned out on the "religious" side of this forum, so I have been lurking here on the "gun" side. I have also been very busy at work.

These sorts of things distort how we view each other, I think.  I also have mostly given up posting and even reading about religious topics here.  It is too personal of a topic.  I don't feel comfortable talking about such with mostly strangers.  So this leaves me to post mostly about linguistics, cultural quarks and food.  While I enjoy talking about those in real life, I don't do so nearly to the proportions that I do here. 

Well in some ways that is the nature of the forums.  On many topics, many here enjoy the conversation of one another, and respect the opinions and arguments of one another.  The religious side gets very touchy.... Trust me, I know :)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on July 30, 2012, 12:28:43 PM
I picked up a scoped Ruger 10/22 over the weekend. My daughters are really looking forward to trying it out at the range.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Pan Michał on August 04, 2012, 06:41:35 AM
My grandfather's brother fought in the Anders' army so you are wrong (again).

Mind you all, that it's the same general Anders, one of the bravest, boldest and thoughtful heros of WW II, who wrote 31 VIII 1944:

"I was completely surprised with the Warsaw Uprising. In my opinion it is the greatest tragedy in our present situation. It had no chances of success, and exposed not only our capital, but also that part of the Country under German occupation, to new terrifying repressions. (...) I guess every honest and not blind person had no delusions about that what will happen, and what happened, that is Soviets not only will not help our beloved, heroic Warsaw, but with great satisfiaction and joy will wait, until the last drop of what's the best blood of Polish Nation will be poured on the ground.

My myself, and my all of my colleagues in the Corps, were always of the opinion, that in the time when Germany is obviously collapsing, when bolsheviks entered the Poland with the same hostility and eliminate our best men with the same way as they did in 1939 - the uprising not only had no sense, but it was even a crime. (...)"


The same general Anders said at the beginning days of the Warsaw Uprising, that when the war will over, he'll want everyone responsible for it to be court martialed.


Don't tell Michał Kalina that he is revisionist and he's simply "what-ifing" from the perspective of 70 years, or that he is unjust in his opinion.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on August 04, 2012, 11:06:40 AM
Why do you expect average Americans to understand what the war is? Last time they experienced war on their own territory was in 1860s. Since then all they know about war comes from books, movies and computer games. They view war as a great adventure they can practise target shooting.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Pan Michał on August 04, 2012, 01:37:52 PM
Why do you expect average Americans to understand what the war is? Last time they experienced war on their own territory was in 1860s. Since then all they know about war comes from books, movies and computer games. They view war as a great adventure they can practise target shooting.

I wouldn't say that's because they're American, they too have living WW II veterans, and from such slaughter fields like Anzio, Normandy or Ardennes. It's just the stereotypical American, that knows the war from games, just like stereotypical Pole is drunken car steeler.

Most of the (relatively) young people throughout the world view the war through the scope of Call Of Duty, for example lots of young Poles want to serve in the army and go to Afghanistan, because they think "it's like Black Hawk Down".

People from the West sometimes have only this "problem", that they do not necessarily understand the reality of Central/Eastern Europe, and how we roll here. From Western point of view the Warsaw Uprising logically could make sense, even if lost. But east of Oder river lies different world, and our country is a trap for both Eastern and Western Europeans when it comes to look at cultural/political/historical issues - a trap because a Poland is a borderland and is both Western and Eastern, so people "left" and "right" of us often make a mistake that everything here goes "left" or "right".

This aside, many people do not understand that Stalin would rather die, than help Poles, because Poles humiliated Stalin in Lenin's eyes in 1920, which thing he never forgot, and that II Polish Republic was a dam for Red Army to go West. Everything that could stop again USSR was burried in forests of Russia, under German occupation, in the atmosphere or in Warsaw. Why should Stalin attack the city if he could mantain his reserves and exterminate thousands of Polish youth an intelligence with German arms?

The Warsaw Uprising had one point - to throw out Germans by Polish army and welcome Soviets as they were guests of independent Polish liberators of souvereign capital city. But what popular books do not mention is that Warsaw wasn't the first city liberated (or tried to be liberated in this case) by AK (Polish Home Army) during the action "Burza" ("Storm") - and that's because in those other liberated by AK cities soldiers welcoming Red Army were disarmed, put to jail or executed as partisan units, because there can be only one liberator and it's USSR. Warsaw would be just one more city witnessing those scenes.

Everyone from the HQ knew what was happening east of Warsaw, and many officially protested and prohibited any further uprising action. Still, it began. Some of the people responsible for it were later explaining that it was "too late" to stop the machine, so they had an idea what terrible thing happened.

The esteem that Warsaw Uprising has in Poland is that it became an icon of martyrdom. Why? Because post-communists would rather make Poles martyrs than victors. So you have whole books, programs, interviews about this tragedy, yet when it's anniversary of Monte Cassino, Tobruk, Falaise, Battle for England, Narvik, or even Arnhem rescue operation, where Poles were if not decisive, then played major role, everything's silent.

That's how things go here. Western logic has nothing to do with this.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on August 04, 2012, 01:48:37 PM
Why do you expect average Americans to understand what the war is? Last time they experienced war on their own territory was in 1860s. Since then all they know about war comes from books, movies and computer games. They view war as a great adventure they can practise target shooting.

I suppose the last decade or so means nothing.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on August 04, 2012, 01:52:40 PM
Why do you expect average Americans to understand what the war is? Last time they experienced war on their own territory was in 1860s. Since then all they know about war comes from books, movies and computer games. They view war as a great adventure they can practise target shooting.

I suppose the last decade or so means nothing.

Who invaded you?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on August 04, 2012, 02:36:07 PM
Why do you expect average Americans to understand what the war is? Last time they experienced war on their own territory was in 1860s. Since then all they know about war comes from books, movies and computer games. They view war as a great adventure they can practise target shooting.

I suppose the last decade or so means nothing.

Who invaded you?
Is this a real question or do you really just have no concept of war?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on August 04, 2012, 02:49:40 PM
You all wouldn't be so bloodthirsty if you knew how war is like:
- How does it feel when you don't know whether you or people close to you get shot by occupants
- How does it feel when you choose which child of yours will survive and which won't
- How does it feel when neighbours come at your place, rob it and put flame on it
- How does it feel when you have nothing but grass and acorns to it
etc.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Pan Michał on August 04, 2012, 03:04:46 PM
Is a country which was on a verge of overthrowing own gouvernement in the 60's/70's when protesting against war in Vietnam really bloodthirsty? Bush and Obama want world domination, not Americans. US soldiers want better pay to provide decent life for their families, so they go on a missions, kill people and end in intensive psychiatric treatment, go crippled for the rest of their life or "simply" get killed, but that's rarely the case these days, now most of them just sit in their outpost few months to the point of ultimate boredom and go home.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on August 04, 2012, 03:16:51 PM
You all wouldn't be so bloodthirsty if you knew how war is like:
- How does it feel when you don't know whether you or people close to you get shot by occupants
- How does it feel when you choose which child of yours will survive and which won't
- How does it feel when neighbours come at your place, rob it and put flame on it
- How does it feel when you have nothing but grass and acorns to it
etc.

You have obviously never been to East St. Louis, South Chicago, or Washington DC.  Besides, what do you know of war?  My guess is that you know nothing of anything that you have written above. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on August 04, 2012, 03:22:13 PM
My guess is that you know nothing of anything that you have written above. 

My grandparents know. They also know war is not a thing that should be hoped for.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on August 04, 2012, 04:19:04 PM
You all wouldn't be so bloodthirsty if you knew how war is like:
- How does it feel when you don't know whether you or people close to you get shot by occupants
- How does it feel when you choose which child of yours will survive and which won't
- How does it feel when neighbours come at your place, rob it and put flame on it
- How does it feel when you have nothing but grass and acorns to it
etc.
I know exactly how war feels.  I've been in combat.

What you have described is found in many US cities.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on August 04, 2012, 04:20:45 PM
I know exactly how war feels.  I've been in combat.

What did you occupy?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on August 04, 2012, 04:22:16 PM
My guess is that you know nothing of anything that you have written above. 

My grandparents know. They also know war is not a thing that should be hoped for.

Few sane people hope for war.  Most want to avoid if possible, but when no other option is presented you fight and you fight to win.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on August 04, 2012, 04:23:23 PM
I know exactly how war feels.  I've been in combat.

What did you occupy?
Nothing.  What did your grandparents occupy?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on August 05, 2012, 04:15:03 PM
My guess is that you know nothing of anything that you have written above. 

My grandparents know. They also know war is not a thing that should be hoped for.

So do mine.  As do my parents and many friends of the family.  But nobody here is talking about hoping for war except you. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on August 05, 2012, 04:16:14 PM
I know exactly how war feels.  I've been in combat.

What did you occupy?
Nothing.  What did your grandparents occupy?

Why bother.  He is obviously sick in the head and I doubt that anything would sway him from his delusions.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on August 05, 2012, 07:15:06 PM
I know exactly how war feels.  I've been in combat.

What did you occupy?
Nothing.  What did your grandparents occupy?

Why bother.  He is obviously sick in the head and I doubt that anything would sway him from his delusions.
I don't think he is delusional.  I do think he is extremely passionate about his feelings on the topic.  The problem is he is so passionate he is unable to understand anything else.  I don't fault him for his views.  I fault him for ignoring everything outside his views which can alter his beliefs.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on August 05, 2012, 07:16:17 PM
I finally got a gun safe for my collection.  I purchased a Cannon Challenger. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on August 05, 2012, 11:58:28 PM
I know exactly how war feels.  I've been in combat.

What did you occupy?
Nothing.  What did your grandparents occupy?

Why bother.  He is obviously sick in the head and I doubt that anything would sway him from his delusions.
I don't think he is delusional.  I do think he is extremely passionate about his feelings on the topic.  The problem is he is so passionate he is unable to understand anything else.  I don't fault him for his views.  I fault him for ignoring everything outside his views which can alter his beliefs.

Isn't that pretty much the definition of delusional?  From Wikipedia:

"A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. Unlike hallucinations, delusions are always pathological (the result of an illness or illness process)."
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on August 06, 2012, 02:47:55 PM
Why do you expect average Americans to understand what the war is? Last time they experienced war on their own territory was in 1860s. Since then all they know about war comes from books, movies and computer games. They view war as a great adventure they can practise target shooting.

I suppose the last decade or so means nothing.

Who invaded you?

And who invaded *you*??  Oh, I know, Poland has been a battleground many times over the centuries, but, according to your profile you are a ripe old 21 years of age.  Have you seen warfare of any kind other than on t.v. or in comic books? Have you ever even served in *anybody's* military?  Unless you volunteered (and why do suspect that you never have?), I'd guess the answer is a resounding *no*.  According to wikipedia, "Poland suspended compulsory military service on 5 December 2008 by the order of the Minister of Defence. Compulsory military service was formally abolished when the Polish parliament amended the conscription law on 9 January 2009; the law came into effect on 11 February 2009."  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service#Poland

One doesn't have to have experienced an invasion of one's country to know the horrors of warfare.  Time to get down off your high horse of pseudo-moral righteous indignation about things of which you really know nothing at all--you're gonna suffocate from lack of oxygen up there.  Maybe that's why Punch thinks you're "sick in the head".
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on August 07, 2012, 11:57:55 AM
I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw. Every Jew in the ghetto realized they were marked for death, either in the camps or by starvation or disease in the Ghetto.

The resisters gathered together 7 handguns and began attacking the ghetto guards. Taking their weapons, they increased their resistance. They were able to hold our for a full month against the German Army.

So when folks tell me that armed civilians would never resist a modern army, they are really telling me that they don't know history.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on August 07, 2012, 12:53:39 PM
I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw.

Americans talking about history...
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on August 07, 2012, 03:36:37 PM
I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw.

Americans talking about history...

It might be good for you to work on your anti-American prejudice. It is unbecoming for an Orthodox Christian to disdain his brothers.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on August 07, 2012, 03:46:24 PM
I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw.

Americans talking about history...

It might be good for you to work on your anti-American prejudice. It is unbecoming for an Orthodox Christian to disdain his brothers.

Oh, he's working on it, alright.... ::)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on August 07, 2012, 03:48:29 PM
Actually, I think that he has rather perfected it.

I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw.

Americans talking about history...

It might be good for you to work on your anti-American prejudice. It is unbecoming for an Orthodox Christian to disdain his brothers.

Oh, he's working on it, alright.... ::)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 07, 2012, 03:52:13 PM
They were able to hold our for a full month against the German Army.
You left out what happened afterwards.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on August 07, 2012, 03:53:35 PM
War is not the answer for only love can conquer hate.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on August 07, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw.

Americans talking about history...

21 year olds talking about history...
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on August 07, 2012, 03:54:47 PM
War is not the answer for only love can conquer hate.

Death solves all problems.  No man, no problem.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on August 07, 2012, 04:03:06 PM
War is not the answer for only love can conquer hate.

Death solves all problems.  No man, no problem.

And I have never found it necessary to hate something in order to kill it.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on August 07, 2012, 04:10:45 PM
I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw.

Americans talking about history...

21 year olds talking about history...

21 year olds talking out their posterior inferior orifices...
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on August 07, 2012, 06:48:46 PM
They were able to hold our for a full month against the German Army.
You left out what happened afterwards.
Since their choices before were either the death camps or starvation in the Ghetto, the only real option they had was to die with a fight or do die without a fight.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on August 07, 2012, 06:50:47 PM
And I have never found it necessary to hate something in order to kill it.

I've never killed anything in my life, which proves two things: 1) that I've never had to hunt for food and 2) that nothing or no one has ever tried to kill me.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on August 07, 2012, 07:04:05 PM

I've never killed anything in my life, which proves two things: 1) that I've never had to hunt for food and 2) that nothing or no one has ever tried to kill me.

I did a lot of 1) in my younger years.  Gave it up when I got older and found that a) I could afford to eat just about whatever I wanted without freezing my rear off in a blind all day, and b) I got far more pleasure out of blasting holes in pieces of cardboard and paper than I did in shooting at creatures that I thought were quite beautiful and often wished that I could enjoy without killing them.

I did run into 2) once in college.  I did not have to kill him since he lost all interest in proceeding when confronted with .44 calibers of stainless steel goodness pointed straight at him.  The expression on a person's face when they realize that they quite possibly made the last mistake in their life is really rather interesting - although I hope I never have to see it again.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on August 07, 2012, 07:06:16 PM
They were able to hold our for a full month against the German Army.
You left out what happened afterwards.
Since their choices before were either the death camps or starvation in the Ghetto, the only real option they had was to die with a fight or do die without a fight.

Better to die a hero than a victim.  They have my highest respect (even if they were fighting my ancestors).
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on August 07, 2012, 07:10:46 PM
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
Ohhh, war, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of innocent lives
War means tears
To thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives
I said, war, huh
Good God, y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
War, it ain't nothing
But a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Ooooh, war
It's an enemy to all mankind
The point of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die
Aaaaah, war-huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
War, huh
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y'all
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
War, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War, it's got one friend
That's the undertaker
Ooooh, war, has shattered
Many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much to short and precious
To spend fighting wars these days
War can't give life
It can only take it away
Ooooh, war, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
War, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there's got to be a better way
Ooooooh, war, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
You tell me
Say it, say it, say it, say it
War, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Stand up and shout it
Nothing
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/edwin_starr/war.html
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on August 07, 2012, 10:28:59 PM
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
Ohhh, war, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of innocent lives
War means tears
To thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives
I said, war, huh
Good God, y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
War, it ain't nothing
But a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Ooooh, war
It's an enemy to all mankind
The point of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die
Aaaaah, war-huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
War, huh
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y'all
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
War, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War, it's got one friend
That's the undertaker
Ooooh, war, has shattered
Many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much to short and precious
To spend fighting wars these days
War can't give life
It can only take it away
Ooooh, war, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me
War, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there's got to be a better way
Ooooooh, war, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
You tell me
Say it, say it, say it, say it
War, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Stand up and shout it
Nothing
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/edwin_starr/war.html
It's better when Jackie Chan sings it.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on August 08, 2012, 03:32:03 AM
I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw.

Americans talking about history...

It might be good for you to work on your anti-American prejudice. It is unbecoming for an Orthodox Christian to disdain his brothers.

I don't see anything that Michał has written as being anti-American.  Being critical of certain aspects of US culture doesn't make one a bigot.

If you look at his points he doesn't make some valid ones that are worth considering even if you ultimately disagree.

1. There hasn't been a war fought on the US mainland since the 1860s, meaning there is no living memory of war on the home front.  The memory of the Civil War in the US has been fetishized and romanticized that it has lost any real meaning to people (reenactments, really?).

2. The experience of fighting a foreign war thousands of kilometers from home is fundamentally different than fighting a war in your home town.   

3. As an extension of the above, there is a huge cultural difference when 100% of the population bears the burdens of warfare vs. a small percentage. 

I don't see it as anti-American to consider that these factors have influenced American culture and its perception of war.   
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: BoredMeeting on August 08, 2012, 09:38:35 AM
I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw.

Americans talking about history...

It might be good for you to work on your anti-American prejudice. It is unbecoming for an Orthodox Christian to disdain his brothers.

I don't see anything that Michał has written as being anti-American.  Being critical of certain aspects of US culture doesn't make one a bigot.

Then you should re-read his comment above being dismissive of Americans who dare to mention history.

This isn't based in reality, it is based in anti-Americanism.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on August 08, 2012, 10:00:49 AM
I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw.

Americans talking about history...

It might be good for you to work on your anti-American prejudice. It is unbecoming for an Orthodox Christian to disdain his brothers.

I don't see anything that Michał has written as being anti-American.  Being critical of certain aspects of US culture doesn't make one a bigot.

If you look at his points he doesn't make some valid ones that are worth considering even if you ultimately disagree.

1. There hasn't been a war fought on the US mainland since the 1860s, meaning there is no living memory of war on the home front.  The memory of the Civil War in the US has been fetishized and romanticized that it has lost any real meaning to people (reenactments, really?).

2. The experience of fighting a foreign war thousands of kilometers from home is fundamentally different than fighting a war in your home town.   

3. As an extension of the above, there is a huge cultural difference when 100% of the population bears the burdens of warfare vs. a small percentage. 

I don't see it as anti-American to consider that these factors have influenced American culture and its perception of war.   

1. There are four hundred neatly marked graves somewhere in Sicily. All because one man went to sleep on the job. But they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep before they did.

2.  I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.  [misattributed, but still...]

3.  It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.


Perhaps the reason that America hasn't fought a major foreign incursion on our own soil is because ALL Y'ALL SUCK AT WAR!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on August 08, 2012, 11:10:30 AM
I was actually referring to the Jewish Ghetto Uprising in Warsaw.

Americans talking about history...

It might be good for you to work on your anti-American prejudice. It is unbecoming for an Orthodox Christian to disdain his brothers.

I don't see anything that Michał has written as being anti-American.  Being critical of certain aspects of US culture doesn't make one a bigot.

If you look at his points he doesn't make some valid ones that are worth considering even if you ultimately disagree.

1. There hasn't been a war fought on the US mainland since the 1860s, meaning there is no living memory of war on the home front.  The memory of the Civil War in the US has been fetishized and romanticized that it has lost any real meaning to people (reenactments, really?).

2. The experience of fighting a foreign war thousands of kilometers from home is fundamentally different than fighting a war in your home town.   

3. As an extension of the above, there is a huge cultural difference when 100% of the population bears the burdens of warfare vs. a small percentage. 

I don't see it as anti-American to consider that these factors have influenced American culture and its perception of war.   

1. There are four hundred neatly marked graves somewhere in Sicily. All because one man went to sleep on the job. But they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep before they did.

2.  I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.  [misattributed, but still...]

3.  It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.


Perhaps the reason that America hasn't fought a major foreign incursion on our own soil is because ALL Y'ALL SUCK AT WAR!

(http://community.secondlife.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/61277i140BD241667A473F/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Νεκτάριος on August 08, 2012, 12:58:44 PM
Perhaps the reason that America hasn't fought a major foreign incursion on our own soil is because ALL Y'ALL SUCK AT WAR!

Geography, luck, etc. have nothing to do with it.   ::)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on August 08, 2012, 01:20:33 PM
Perhaps the reason that America hasn't fought a major foreign incursion on our own soil is because ALL Y'ALL SUCK AT WAR!

Geography, luck, etc. have nothing to do with it.   ::)

You betcha!  We have both--we have geography  (it really does help to *not* be surrounded by nasty, covetous, aggressive enemies!), and we have luck.  But in addition "ALL Y'ALL SUCK AT WAR!"  ;D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on August 08, 2012, 01:23:37 PM
I just bought this antique gun for $299.99, did I get a deal or what!?

(http://www.chickorywoodproducts.com/CWP/703-rifle.JPG)

Yeah!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on August 08, 2012, 01:40:25 PM
I just bought this antique gun for $299.99, did I get a deal or what!?

(http://www.chickorywoodproducts.com/CWP/703-rifle.JPG)

Yeah!

Uhh....if you say so.  I guess you could use it as a club or something, but a baseball bat would've been far less expensive  ;D.

I prefer this:

(http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/pistol/M10.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on August 08, 2012, 01:42:31 PM
What? The guy who sold it to me said that that was the gun that George Washington used when they invaded Korea in the 1860's. He gave me a certificate of authenticity and everything! Don't be jealous, ok?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on August 08, 2012, 02:14:16 PM
What? The guy who sold it to me said that that was the gun that George Washington used when they invaded Korea in the 1860's. He gave me a certificate of authenticity and everything! Don't be jealous, ok?

Not jealous in the least.  Btw, the guy lied to you--it's a *replica*.......... of the gun used by Howdy Doody in a hold-up of a 7 Eleven in South Bronx.  Do your research, dude!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on August 08, 2012, 03:05:42 PM
What? The guy who sold it to me said that that was the gun that George Washington used when they invaded Korea in the 1860's. He gave me a certificate of authenticity and everything! Don't be jealous, ok?
You're the best
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on August 09, 2012, 12:18:29 PM
What? The guy who sold it to me said that that was the gun that George Washington used when they invaded Korea in the 1860's. He gave me a certificate of authenticity and everything! Don't be jealous, ok?
You're the best

(http://cdn.mdjunction.com/components/com_joomlaboard/uploaded/images/you_re_the_best.gif)

Awwwwww.......

 ;)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on August 09, 2012, 12:44:56 PM
It took me a while to notice the sparkling  ;D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on August 09, 2012, 01:30:00 PM
It took me a while to notice the sparkling  ;D

Nice touch, isn't it?  ;D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: sprtslvr1973 on September 11, 2012, 06:23:11 PM
Mossberg 12 gauge pump for Trap and hunting
Taurus 38 for defense and some target
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Jo2444 on September 11, 2012, 11:30:15 PM
this is the last thread id expect in a forum like this... whats the point in even owning one?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on September 12, 2012, 07:37:51 AM
this is the last thread id expect in a forum like this... whats the point in even owning one?
What is the point of not owning one?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 12, 2012, 07:46:18 AM
this is the last thread id expect in a forum like this... whats the point in even owning one?
What is the point of not owning one?

What is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what guns does one have and how proficiently does he uses them?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Pan Michał on September 12, 2012, 02:10:01 PM
What is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what guns does one have and how proficiently does he uses them?

Heh... And what is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what does one believe in and how well does he understand it?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on September 12, 2012, 02:27:56 PM
What is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what guns does one have and how proficiently does he uses them?

Heh... And what is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what does one believe in and how well does he understand it?

Yes, I have wondered the same. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on September 12, 2012, 02:37:11 PM
One of my newest.  Ruger .44 Special flat top single action.  My new favorite carry gun.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 12, 2012, 02:54:55 PM
this is the last thread id expect in a forum like this... whats the point in even owning one?
What is the point of not owning one?

What is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what guns does one have and how proficiently does he uses them?

...for the Lord hath spoken it.
Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 12, 2012, 03:05:25 PM
What is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what guns does one have and how proficiently does he uses them?

Heh... And what is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what does one believe in and how well does he understand it?

It does not simplify for potential intruders to prepare to kill you.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on September 12, 2012, 03:47:25 PM
One of my newest.  Ruger .44 Special flat top single action.  My new favorite carry gun.
Why on earth would you, if you must carry a gun, carry a single action?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 12, 2012, 04:03:46 PM
I'm not kidding and I can show the bodies.  I shot 4 skunks in the last 2 days.  They were raiding my chicken coop killing my chickens!  I also had to kill a raccoon last week that was also trying to raid my chickens.

I can't even say how many field rats I've killed in the past 3 months, but that's mostly with a high powered pellet gun.  I've killed NUMEROUS coyotes too with my 12 gauge that were trying to break into the goat pen to eat my goats.

I have several guns in my home that are always loaded ready to shoot.

I believe mostly the objections in this thread regard the killing of people for defense...  There are assuredly heavy theological arguments into the killing of people (non resistance and loving enemies etc.).  I lean on the "only to defend family" end of that argument, but as a last resort.  If I was a single man without children or a wife to defend, I may see things differently.

But everybody I can assure you, for somebody that has a gun in his hand at LEAST every other day (often daily) picking off some kind of critter, guns really are mandatory.  The barn cats can't handle the influx of field rats, snakes, and possums.  

My wife just reminded me, I also had to put down a field rabbit that was hit by a hawk and was just laying there suffering last week.

Guns are just a way of life out here.

Funny thing is, the .22 Long Rifle and .177 pellet gun (both hollow points) are MOST commonly used in a ranch setting.  Shotgun is rare for a coyote, but I've done those with the .22 LR just fine.

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 12, 2012, 04:41:44 PM
I have several guns in my home that are always loaded ready to shoot.

Nice...
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 12, 2012, 04:50:29 PM
I have several guns in my home that are always loaded ready to shoot.

Nice...

For once I agree with Michal.  Pretty cool, bro!  Way to stay prepared!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Pan Michał on September 12, 2012, 05:10:07 PM
It does not simplify for potential intruders to prepare to kill you.

I don't know, I see here mostly people that like guns for what they are. The way they look, the way they make sound of reloading, shooting, and like shooting for the sake of shooting. That they are weapons of defence/attack is one of the last things discussed here, at least as I see it.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 12, 2012, 05:14:01 PM
It does not simplify for potential intruders to prepare to kill you.

I don't know, I see here mostly people that like guns for what they are. The way they look, the way they make sound of reloading, shooting, and like shooting for the sake of shooting. That they are weapons of defence/attack is one of the last things discussed here, at least as I see it.

How quaint.  Reading what people write rather than reading what you expect to hear.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 12, 2012, 06:04:41 PM
It does not simplify for potential intruders to prepare to kill you.

I don't know, I see here mostly people that like guns for what they are. The way they look, the way they make sound of reloading, shooting, and like shooting for the sake of shooting. That they are weapons of defence/attack is one of the last things discussed here, at least as I see it.

How quaint.  Reading what people write rather than reading what you expect to hear.

Oh really?

There's my home defense device.  

You forgot to write how long have you been practising and where exactly you keep it.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Sinful Hypocrite on September 12, 2012, 07:00:19 PM
They were able to hold our for a full month against the German Army.
You left out what happened afterwards.
Since their choices before were either the death camps or starvation in the Ghetto, the only real option they had was to die with a fight or do die without a fight.

Luke 12
4“I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. 6Are not five sparrows sold for two penniesa? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on September 12, 2012, 07:01:49 PM
Speaking of showing off guns, the Mr. Olympia contest is only a few weeks away! It's gonna be awesome!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on September 12, 2012, 07:03:21 PM
this is the last thread id expect in a forum like this... whats the point in even owning one?
What is the point of not owning one?

No chance of accidentally shooting myself when reaching for the tylenol.

If an intruder breaks in I'll karate chop her.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 12, 2012, 07:21:59 PM
Speaking of showing off guns, the Mr. Olympia contest is only a few weeks away! It's gonna be awesome!

I don't think any of these new guys will ever match Arnold.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 12, 2012, 07:42:23 PM
It does not simplify for potential intruders to prepare to kill you.

I don't know, I see here mostly people that like guns for what they are. The way they look, the way they make sound of reloading, shooting, and like shooting for the sake of shooting. That they are weapons of defence/attack is one of the last things discussed here, at least as I see it.

How quaint.  Reading what people write rather than reading what you expect to hear.

Oh really?

Indeed.  Pan Michal used the word "mostly".  In English this means a majority though not an entirety.  Used in a sentence: "They mostly come out at night.  Mostly."

Quote
There's my home defense device.  

You forgot to write how long have you been practising and where exactly you keep it.

Ah yes, my old Mossberg.  I haven't shot that, except for trap shooting, in a while.  It's in my closet these days.  I still keep five rounds of buckshot in it.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on September 12, 2012, 09:27:11 PM
What is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what guns does one have and how proficiently does he uses them?

Heh... And what is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what does one believe in and how well does he understand it?

It does not simplify for potential intruders to prepare to kill you.

Once again, your ignorance shines through like a flash of lightning on a dark night.  Seems to me, lots of people around the world are being dragged out of their house and killed for what they believe.  Not so many are messed with when the thugs know the potential victim is armed.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on September 12, 2012, 09:35:11 PM
One of my newest.  Ruger .44 Special flat top single action.  My new favorite carry gun.
Why on earth would you, if you must carry a gun, carry a single action?

Been shooting them since I was seventeen years old.  Qualified for my concealed carry permit with one.  Usually don't miss with one, keeping those around the target safe (unlike the nine civilians hit in the barrage of police gunfire recently in New York).  Confidence is 99% of success.  I have full confidence in my revolvers (including my single actions) and my ability with them.  I am not quite as confident with my autoloaders.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Tzimis on September 12, 2012, 10:02:56 PM
I have many guns I can post. I always believed that real men hunt with bows. ;D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 12, 2012, 11:31:10 PM
I have several guns in my home that are always loaded ready to shoot.

Nice...

I don't know how to take what you said, but in the context I was describing, I have a 12 gauge ready in the event coyotes go after my goats.   I have a .22 loaded for skunks, opossums, and raccoons that could kill many egg laying hens that I have.  My .177 hunting pellet gun is ready as well.

I use firearms all the time as a tool.   I don't use them for "show off" purposes.

In the context of home defense, I really believe strongly in non-resistance, however, when you have children and a wife to defend (perhaps it is a weakness in my faith) I would defend them.   This is not the reason for my firearms though.

In context of wars, I would still defend them which would be the case for an intruder.

But for hunting reasons & defending livestock, I don't see an alternative to firearms.
This is not exact but really close to my home to give the general idea of just how much land is around me.  We get overflow of critters and coyotes from all over - https://maps.google.com/maps?q=purdon,+tx&hl=en&ll=31.8761,-96.597633&spn=0.078135,0.110378&geocode=+&hnear=Purdon,+Navarro,+Texas&t=h&z=13 (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=purdon,+tx&hl=en&ll=31.8761,-96.597633&spn=0.078135,0.110378&geocode=+&hnear=Purdon,+Navarro,+Texas&t=h&z=13)

I did not mention wild hogs either in my last post.   Those things are MONSTERS here in Texas.  They'll eat you alive (I am not kidding).  There are people who have been gutted by their tusks while on their property.  I was once taking some hay down a dirt road on the go-kart (off road), and there was a large hog just standing there in the path grunting at me.  It would not move for anything.

SLOWLY, I took out the .22 (mounted on the cart) and pointed at him.  1st shot it screamed and started charging the cart, and I had to shoot it 8 times before it dropped (and I was lucky). 

Here are some photos of Texas Boars  (WARNING - some graphic hunting photos )
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=ubuntu&hs=PsL&channel=fs&q=large+texas+boar&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1024&bih=603&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=iVBRUPP9IMa42wXYnYCQCg (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=ubuntu&hs=PsL&channel=fs&q=large+texas+boar&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1024&bih=603&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=iVBRUPP9IMa42wXYnYCQCg)

The one I got was about a 1/3 the size of the monster ones photographed.  It was around 600 pounds (est based off calf weight for size - and I could not drag it and had to get a truck to do it)

Anyway, I know this strays far from typical gun arguments for home defense, but there are absolute needs for them around here.  I would not travel on the acreage without being ready.  I've popped poisonous copperhead snakes, rattlesnakes, cotton mouth snakes, water moccasins....  Wild turkeys (that do NOT taste like butterball turkey).

None of the animals are killed to make me a "tough guy" though.  I really hate having to do it.   It's a tool, nothing more.

My point of explaining all of this is not the intent to "show off" the guns, but to elaborate there is points of gun ownership outside of shooting people.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 12, 2012, 11:43:44 PM
Just for the sake of discussion.....

"Love your enemies"
"Pray for those who persecute you"
"Turn the cheek"
"Blessed are the peacemakers" (and no, he was not talking about the Colt Peacemaker)
"If somebody takes your tunic, give to him your coat as well"
"Resist not him that is evil"

Peter was disarmed by Christ.
Christ did not resist the crucifixion.

Are we as Christians supposed to be ready to shoot people for robbing our homes?  Endangering our families?

I would not shoot for robbing a home (if I walked in on a break in), but I would for endangering (home invasion stuff) my family.   Texas Castle law says I can shoot for a mere break in, but I would not.  It would have to be a family threat situation.  Does this viewpoint contradict the biblical passages?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 13, 2012, 04:00:44 AM
this is the last thread id expect in a forum like this... whats the point in even owning one?
What is the point of not owning one?

No chance of accidentally shooting myself when reaching for the tylenol.

Quote from: http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1993-10.html
(21 December 1992, North Carolina)
Ken Charles Barger, 47, accidentally shot himself to death in December in Newton, when, awakening to the sound of a ringing telephone beside his bed, he reached for the phone but grabbed instead a Smith & Wesson .38 Special, which discharged when he drew it to his ear.

Seems to me, lots of people around the world are being dragged out of their house and killed for what they believe.  Not so many are messed with when the thugs know the potential victim is armed.

America is a Third World country - yes, I've already read that here.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on September 13, 2012, 07:53:09 AM
this is the last thread id expect in a forum like this... whats the point in even owning one?
What is the point of not owning one?

What is the point of telling dozens of thousands of people what guns does one have and how proficiently does he uses them?
What is the point of telling dozens of people anything?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on September 13, 2012, 07:57:47 AM
this is the last thread id expect in a forum like this... whats the point in even owning one?
What is the point of not owning one?

No chance of accidentally shooting myself when reaching for the tylenol.
If you are that clumsy, you probably shouldn't have a gun around. :laugh:
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on September 13, 2012, 08:02:00 AM
this is the last thread id expect in a forum like this... whats the point in even owning one?
What is the point of not owning one?

No chance of accidentally shooting myself when reaching for the tylenol.

Quote from: http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1993-10.html
(21 December 1992, North Carolina)
Ken Charles Barger, 47, accidentally shot himself to death in December in Newton, when, awakening to the sound of a ringing telephone beside his bed, he reached for the phone but grabbed instead a Smith & Wesson .38 Special, which discharged when he drew it to his ear.

Seems to me, lots of people around the world are being dragged out of their house and killed for what they believe.  Not so many are messed with when the thugs know the potential victim is armed.

America is a Third World country - yes, I've already read that here.
If you are that clumsy, you probably shouldn't have a gun around.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2012, 08:06:17 AM

Seems to me, lots of people around the world are being dragged out of their house and killed for what they believe.  Not so many are messed with when the thugs know the potential victim is armed.

America is a Third World country - yes, I've already read that here.

Remember this:

How quaint.  Reading what people write rather than reading what you expect to hear.

Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.


Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 13, 2012, 08:15:40 AM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Nephi on September 13, 2012, 11:01:44 AM
You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.
I'm really hoping this was sarcasm. :D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: celticfan1888 on September 13, 2012, 11:22:28 AM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

But it is strong enough to have the largest proportionate number of citizens in jail in the world.

A gun keeps a citizen from being a serf.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 13, 2012, 11:51:25 AM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

But it is strong enough to have the largest proportionate number of citizens in jail in the world.

Yeah, I forgot about several things: world's biggest prison ratio, forcing confessions under torture, jailing people without trial and great influence of the army - these are also marks of some third world dictatorship.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: celticfan1888 on September 13, 2012, 11:52:19 AM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

But it is strong enough to have the largest proportionate number of citizens in jail in the world.

Yeah, I forgot about several things: world's biggest prison ratio, forcing confessions under torture, jailing people without trial and great influence of the army - these are also marks of some third world dictatorship.

I was agreeing with you. You're doing it again.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 13, 2012, 12:34:22 PM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

But it is strong enough to have the largest proportionate number of citizens in jail in the world.

Yeah, I forgot about several things: world's biggest prison ratio, forcing confessions under torture, jailing people without trial and great influence of the army - these are also marks of some third world dictatorship.

Many Americans including myself believe the government was hijacked.   There are many militias sprouting up all over the USA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_LyJyh9tho (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_LyJyh9tho)  (Language warning)

The thing that is ironic for those in support of gun control, is that they approved of armed government agents to enforce the control itself.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 13, 2012, 12:39:55 PM
Many Americans including myself believe the government was hijacked.   There are many militias sprouting up all over the USA.

Yeah, the presence of armed gangs is one of the features too.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Asteriktos on September 13, 2012, 12:45:09 PM
"The second amendment is a reset button"  ::)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2012, 01:32:26 PM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

But it is strong enough to have the largest proportionate number of citizens in jail in the world.

Yeah, I forgot about several things: world's biggest prison ratio, forcing confessions under torture, jailing people without trial and great influence of the army - these are also marks of some third world dictatorship.

I was agreeing with you. You're doing it again.

Michal reads what he wants to read.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: celticfan1888 on September 13, 2012, 01:36:50 PM
"The second amendment is a reset button"  ::)

'Tis!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: celticfan1888 on September 13, 2012, 01:37:07 PM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

But it is strong enough to have the largest proportionate number of citizens in jail in the world.

Yeah, I forgot about several things: world's biggest prison ratio, forcing confessions under torture, jailing people without trial and great influence of the army - these are also marks of some third world dictatorship.

I was agreeing with you. You're doing it again.

Michal reads what he wants to read.

I think so. :-X
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2012, 01:48:47 PM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time.

I'm gonna go all Isa up on you and defeat this drivel in detail.  Yes, people are raped, robbed and murdered all the time.  We are also the third largest nation in the world by population.

Quote
The state is too weak to protect the citizens

It is not the duty of the state to protect its citizens but to maintain order and thereby create a situation where people either do not need to be protected or can protect themselves.  Your definition is highly flawed.  Poland was unable to defend its people from neither Germany nor from Russia.  Was it a failed state?  Is Poland a third world nation?  I would bet my last dollar that either Germany or Russia could within a few months take Poland today supposing there were no outside intervention (*cough* America *cough*) and had the will to do so.  Does that make Poland a third world nation?  Same goes for Belorussia if you'd rather claim them.

Quote
(or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen).

A dozen?  You insult me.

Quote
Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets.

Really?  Care to point me to one where a supermarket or online store where a firearm can be bought without proper licensing?  I'd love to know, though I'm afraid the Bureau of AnTi-Fun would beat me to it.

Quote
Even small children own them and are taught to shoot.

Own - Huh?  Taught to shoot - duh.  We are a free country and our parents don't abandon their children at birth.

Quote
The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people.

Third largest population in the world.  I'd rather live here than China or India, the next largest.

Quote
Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion.

I fail to see the problem with this.  Would you rather Atheists?  You were too young to enjoy the benefits of the Warsaw Pact.  Perhaps ask your parents about it some time.

Quote
The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

No, these are the characteristics of a state that CAN.  The difference between Poland and the US is WE CAN.  We can exercise our interests politically, diplomatically, economically, and if need be militarily.  This is how states have always operated.  Do you want to know why Poland doesn't start wars like the US does?  Because in CANNOT.  Well, it could, but then it would revert back to punching-bag-for-Germany-and-Russia status. 

There are plenty of other characteristics of post-colonial third world nations that the US doesn't share.  Now if you will excuse me, I have to use the bathroom...which does in fact have running water.

Peace.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: celticfan1888 on September 13, 2012, 02:05:30 PM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time.

I'm gonna go all Isa up on you and defeat this drivel in detail.  Yes, people are raped, robbed and murdered all the time.  We are also the third largest nation in the world by population.

Quote
The state is too weak to protect the citizens

It is not the duty of the state to protect its citizens but to maintain order and thereby create a situation where people either do not need to be protected or can protect themselves.  Your definition is highly flawed.  Poland was unable to defend its people from neither Germany nor from Russia.  Was it a failed state?  Is Poland a third world nation?  I would bet my last dollar that either Germany or Russia could within a few months take Poland today supposing there were no outside intervention (*cough* America *cough*) and had the will to do so.  Does that make Poland a third world nation?  Same goes for Belorussia if you'd rather claim them.

Quote
(or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen).

A dozen?  You insult me.

Quote
Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets.

Really?  Care to point me to one where a supermarket or online store where a firearm can be bought without proper licensing?  I'd love to know, though I'm afraid the Bureau of AnTi-Fun would beat me to it.

Quote
Even small children own them and are taught to shoot.

Own - Huh?  Taught to shoot - duh.  We are a free country and our parents don't abandon their children at birth.

Quote
The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people.

Third largest population in the world.  I'd rather live here than China or India, the next largest.

Quote
Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion.

I fail to see the problem with this.  Would you rather Atheists?  You were too young to enjoy the benefits of the Warsaw Pact.  Perhaps ask your parents about it some time.

Quote
The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

No, these are the characteristics of a state that CAN.  The difference between Poland and the US is WE CAN.  We can exercise our interests politically, diplomatically, economically, and if need be militarily.  This is how states have always operated.  Do you want to know why Poland doesn't start wars like the US does?  Because in CANNOT.  Well, it could, but then it would revert back to punching-bag-for-Germany-and-Russia status. 

There are plenty of other characteristics of post-colonial third world nations that the US doesn't share.  Now if you will excuse me, I have to use the bathroom...which does in fact have running water.

Peace.

Very valid. Good points, Isa Jr. ;)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on September 13, 2012, 02:19:51 PM
Frankly I need to purchase a gun myself, can't sleep at night worrying about someone barging through my door getting mugged for my lunch money.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 13, 2012, 03:52:20 PM
Many Americans including myself believe the government was hijacked.   There are many militias sprouting up all over the USA.

Yeah, the presence of armed gangs is one of the features too.

Yes it is, but the Militias are better armed and train for combat.  Unlike gangs who are basically drug dealers.

Are you advocating gun control?  Just curious.  Do you think armed governments should take all the guns away from the people?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: NicholasMyra on September 13, 2012, 03:59:20 PM

Yes it is, but the Militias are better armed and train for combat.
Better than the cartels?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 13, 2012, 04:01:50 PM
Really?  Care to point me to one where a supermarket or online store where a firearm can be bought without proper licensing?

(http://therynoshorn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/walmart-gun.jpeg)

(http://images.fastcompany.com/upload/Jan%20&%20shotgun%20at%20Wal-Mart.jpg)

a shop: http://www.impactguns.com/

Quote
Own - Huh?  Taught to shoot - duh.  We are a free country and our parents don't abandon their children at birth.

You don't abandon but you let them die.
http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_your_kids_from_guns.php

and one more bizarre thing: http://www.corneredcat.com/Shotguns_and_Rifles_for_Children_and_Petite_Adults/

Yes it is, but the Militias are better armed and train for combat.  Unlike gangs who are basically drug dealers.

To combat with whom? Other armed gangs? Or pregnant women?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jz7YZO8hpc
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Aindriú on September 13, 2012, 04:05:24 PM
You see, in the world Michal lives in, there aren't any bad people.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on September 13, 2012, 04:08:54 PM
Did you really just post a picture of Walmart that is extremely old? They don't sell guns in their stores anymore, atleast the urban ones.

Rural ones, maybe. But they have scaled back alot. I know my local Walmarts do not carry weapons in the Outdoors section. Oh and they don't allow the sale of pistols either.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 13, 2012, 04:14:31 PM
Did you really just post a picture of Walmart that is extremely old? They don't sell guns in their stores anymore, atleast the urban ones.

Rural ones, maybe. But they have scaled back alot. I know my local Walmarts do not carry weapons in the Outdoors section. Oh and they don't allow the sale of pistols either.

Oh really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703367004576289230488920802.html
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 13, 2012, 04:16:32 PM

Yes it is, but the Militias are better armed and train for combat.
Better than the cartels?

Way better than cartels, and your example is HORRIBLE.  The cartels exist in Mexico, where gun ownership is ILLEGAL.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on September 13, 2012, 04:20:41 PM
Did you really just post a picture of Walmart that is extremely old? They don't sell guns in their stores anymore, atleast the urban ones.

Rural ones, maybe. But they have scaled back alot. I know my local Walmarts do not carry weapons in the Outdoors section. Oh and they don't allow the sale of pistols either.

Oh really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703367004576289230488920802.html
Which isn't too many, and as I said, since I live in an urbanized area, the Walmarts around me do not sell firearms.

Plus Firearms laws differ state to state. IIRC you just need a photo ID in some states.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 13, 2012, 04:21:54 PM
I'm still waiting to see a gang or cartel around my area too.  Perhaps they could help me get rid of the possum problem.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 13, 2012, 04:26:26 PM
I've bought guns at guns shows here in Texas before.  You go in, and there are a lot of veterans, cops, enthusiasts, and others just looking for guns.  There are tables set up with all kinds of firearms on them, along with people walking around with shotguns, pistols, etc., for sale.

There was one guy who had a nice Mossberg 500 slung over his shoulder who wanted to sell it.  I talked to him for a while, and he was a real nice respectful older fellow.   I paid him in cash, shook his hand, took the gun and put it in my car.  Then I went back to the show.

I'm not understanding the negative connotation being affiliated with guns very well in this thread.   Firearm usage is far more than wars & home defense.  I have not used mine yet today.  I may tonight though if I spot another skunk or possum.  I did hear some coyotes about 1/2 mile away too last night around 3am.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2012, 04:27:18 PM
Did you really just post a picture of Walmart that is extremely old? They don't sell guns in their stores anymore, atleast the urban ones.

Rural ones, maybe. But they have scaled back alot. I know my local Walmarts do not carry weapons in the Outdoors section. Oh and they don't allow the sale of pistols either.

Oh really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703367004576289230488920802.html
Which isn't too many, and as I said, since I live in an urbanized area, the Walmarts around me do not sell firearms.

Plus Firearms laws differ state to state. IIRC you just need a photo ID in some states.

There is at the very least a BATF background check.  Michal may have noticed the signs behind the firearms in the photos he posted noting that Federal laws regarding purchase would be recognized.  Or he might not have.  His arguments thus far have been rather suspect.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on September 13, 2012, 04:30:32 PM
Did you really just post a picture of Walmart that is extremely old? They don't sell guns in their stores anymore, atleast the urban ones.

Rural ones, maybe. But they have scaled back alot. I know my local Walmarts do not carry weapons in the Outdoors section. Oh and they don't allow the sale of pistols either.

Oh really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703367004576289230488920802.html
Which isn't too many, and as I said, since I live in an urbanized area, the Walmarts around me do not sell firearms.

Plus Firearms laws differ state to state. IIRC you just need a photo ID in some states.

There is at the very least a BATF background check.  Michal may have noticed the signs behind the firearms in the photos he posted noting that Federal laws regarding purchase would be recognized.  Or he might not have.  His arguments thus far have been rather suspect.
You mean he hasn't already? It's kind of funny to see someone so desperate to keep the straw man erected.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2012, 04:38:54 PM
Really?  Care to point me to one where a supermarket or online store where a firearm can be bought without proper licensing?

...photos removed for size constraints...

I have dealt with the photos above. 
I have bolded part of my statement to further prove that your reading comprehension is suspect.

Quote
Quote
Own - Huh?  Taught to shoot - duh.  We are a free country and our parents don't abandon their children at birth.

You don't abandon but you let them die.
http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_your_kids_from_guns.php

and one more bizarre thing: http://www.corneredcat.com/Shotguns_and_Rifles_for_Children_and_Petite_Adults/

Indeed, people come in different sizes, children and small adults. Only a moron would train a child on a full sized rifle.

Your article...erm, blog post...states that 500 children die per year from accidental gunshots.  They use the CDC for a source, so I will give them that.  Now, your homework is to look how many children die from drowning per year and compare the stats.

Also, we do have the third largest population in the world, over 300 million.  The calculator on my computer needed to use scientific notation to turn 500/300,000,000 into a percentage.  We cannot entirely get rid of natural selection, so it's best just to teach them about the dangers of life.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2012, 04:42:14 PM
Did you really just post a picture of Walmart that is extremely old? They don't sell guns in their stores anymore, atleast the urban ones.

Rural ones, maybe. But they have scaled back alot. I know my local Walmarts do not carry weapons in the Outdoors section. Oh and they don't allow the sale of pistols either.

Oh really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703367004576289230488920802.html
Which isn't too many, and as I said, since I live in an urbanized area, the Walmarts around me do not sell firearms.

Plus Firearms laws differ state to state. IIRC you just need a photo ID in some states.

There is at the very least a BATF background check.  Michal may have noticed the signs behind the firearms in the photos he posted noting that Federal laws regarding purchase would be recognized.  Or he might not have.  His arguments thus far have been rather suspect.
You mean he hasn't already? It's kind of funny to see someone so desperate to keep the straw man erected.

Yeah...eventually I need to take the good Lord's advice and stop chucking pearls.

Arguing with him on this subject is kind of like watching a mentally disabled person compete in MMA.  It's one sided, a little funny, but ultimately you feel bad for having witnessed it.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: celticfan1888 on September 13, 2012, 04:42:21 PM
Did you really just post a picture of Walmart that is extremely old? They don't sell guns in their stores anymore, atleast the urban ones.

Rural ones, maybe. But they have scaled back alot. I know my local Walmarts do not carry weapons in the Outdoors section. Oh and they don't allow the sale of pistols either.

They do in Baton Rouge and New Orleans.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on September 13, 2012, 04:44:56 PM
Did you really just post a picture of Walmart that is extremely old? They don't sell guns in their stores anymore, atleast the urban ones.

Rural ones, maybe. But they have scaled back alot. I know my local Walmarts do not carry weapons in the Outdoors section. Oh and they don't allow the sale of pistols either.

Oh really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703367004576289230488920802.html
Which isn't too many, and as I said, since I live in an urbanized area, the Walmarts around me do not sell firearms.

Plus Firearms laws differ state to state. IIRC you just need a photo ID in some states.

There is at the very least a BATF background check.  Michal may have noticed the signs behind the firearms in the photos he posted noting that Federal laws regarding purchase would be recognized.  Or he might not have.  His arguments thus far have been rather suspect.
You mean he hasn't already? It's kind of funny to see someone so desperate to keep the straw man erected.

Yeah...eventually I need to take the good Lord's advice and stop chucking pearls.

Arguing with him on this subject is kind of like watching a mentally disabled person compete in MMA.  It's one sided, a little funny, but ultimately you feel bad for having witnessed it.
LOL.

Seriously though, I don't understand why you would want to remove guns from the country when that's not really the issue here. We all know it's really not about the guns.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 13, 2012, 04:49:26 PM
Way better than cartels, and your example is HORRIBLE.  The cartels exist in Mexico, where gun ownership is ILLEGAL.

So they buy them in the USA (or get them from the CIA).

Which isn't too many, and as I said, since I live in an urbanized area, the Walmarts around me do not sell firearms.

"Half" is not too many?

Quote
Plus Firearms laws differ state to state. IIRC you just need a photo ID in some states.

I need that to buy beer. It's not very strict.

There is at the very least a BATF background check.  

Done by a shop assistant? BTW wikipedia says BATF controls only sellers. So how is it checked?

Quote
Michal may have noticed the signs behind the firearms in the photos he posted noting that Federal laws regarding purchase would be recognized.  

Yeah... The first one is to be older than 21? What are the others two? One cannot wear a prison uniform or a foreign military uniform? One cannot be an evil alien?
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 13, 2012, 04:51:30 PM
Really?  Care to point me to one where a supermarket or online store where a firearm can be bought without proper licensing?

...photos removed for size constraints...

I have dealt with the photos above. 
I have bolded part of my statement to further prove that your reading comprehension is suspect.

Quote
Quote
Own - Huh?  Taught to shoot - duh.  We are a free country and our parents don't abandon their children at birth.

You don't abandon but you let them die.
http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_your_kids_from_guns.php

and one more bizarre thing: http://www.corneredcat.com/Shotguns_and_Rifles_for_Children_and_Petite_Adults/

Indeed, people come in different sizes, children and small adults. Only a moron would train a child on a full sized rifle.

Your article...erm, blog post...states that 500 children die per year from accidental gunshots.  They use the CDC for a source, so I will give them that.  Now, your homework is to look how many children die from drowning per year and compare the stats.

Also, we do have the third largest population in the world, over 300 million.  The calculator on my computer needed to use scientific notation to turn 500/300,000,000 into a percentage.  We cannot entirely get rid of natural selection, so it's best just to teach them about the dangers of life.


My 13 year old daughter is a crack shot and shoots more accurately than many men I know.
My 11 year old son is a very good shot as well and has killed many varmits.
My 8 year old son likes to shoot the .22 rifle and .177 pellet gun and has killed 4 field rats with the pellet rifle.
My 6 year old daughter can hit in a 1 ft diameter circle at 30 feet consistently.
My 4 year old daughter will learn soon enough.

Gun safety is taught from the time they can understand anything.  Heavy emphasis placed on safety at all times.

This argument should never go into natural selection and children just fooling around with guns.  Children are killed in swimming pools, playing with matches, auto accidents, and buckets full of water.  I knew of a kid in 6th grade that died huffing paint.

My point is there are many things that are deadly that are useful.  Firearms are one of them.  When proper safety is taught, they are safe.  It becomes instinct.

For example, one time I absolutely believed a gun to be unloaded when I was carrying it.  Well it went off.   The way I was taught to hold the firearm while alone (pointed down and slightly out) prevented me from shooting my own foot.  It was a very awkward feeling knowing that I prevented that.

I don't know why I just thought of this, but I know a family that builds barns.  Their 16 year old son, shot a 3.5 inch nail (from a nailgun) directly through his KNEECAP!!!!! The photo of the X-Ray just hurt to look at.... He was working too fast and not safe.  He's pretty much better now except during the winter when he feels his knee.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 13, 2012, 04:55:42 PM
Way better than cartels, and your example is HORRIBLE.  The cartels exist in Mexico, where gun ownership is ILLEGAL.

So they buy them in the USA (or get them from the CIA).

Which isn't too many, and as I said, since I live in an urbanized area, the Walmarts around me do not sell firearms.

"Half" is not too many?

Quote
Plus Firearms laws differ state to state. IIRC you just need a photo ID in some states.

I need that to buy beer. It's not very strict.

There is at the very least a BATF background check.  

Done by a shop assistant? BTW wikipedia says BATF controls only sellers. So how is it checked?

Quote
Michal may have noticed the signs behind the firearms in the photos he posted noting that Federal laws regarding purchase would be recognized.  

Yeah... The first one is to be older than 21? What are the others two? One cannot wear a prison uniform or a foreign military uniform? One cannot be an evil alien?

Yes, they buy them in the USA is the probably true rumor.
But they are NOT here.
They are where Guns are illegal.

That's because if a gang of thugs attacked one of our police stations here (as they did in Mexico), the gangs would be overwhelmed by the communities firepower.

That's why THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c)  Doesn't happen in America.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 13, 2012, 05:06:33 PM
Luke 11:21-22  When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: mike on September 13, 2012, 05:18:44 PM
That's why THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c)  Doesn't happen in America.


"NORTHeastern Mexico". I wonder where do their guns come from.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: celticfan1888 on September 13, 2012, 05:19:32 PM
That's why THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c)  Doesn't happen in America.


"NORTHeastern Mexico". I wonder where do their guns come from.

Where a lot of illegal guns in Texas come from...Mexico
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: yeshuaisiam on September 13, 2012, 05:31:02 PM
That's why THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c)  Doesn't happen in America.


"NORTHeastern Mexico". I wonder where do their guns come from.

Where a lot of illegal guns in Texas come from...Mexico

Yes many of them come from AMERICA.

With that said, why don't we have cartel wars in America? 

It's because we have an armed people.

In Mexico, guns are illegal, but the criminals get them and take over.
In America, criminals still get guns, but the people have the backs of the police.

That's why armed cartels are not roaming the streets here, and police stations are not under attack.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2012, 05:32:56 PM
That's why THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c)  Doesn't happen in America.


"NORTHeastern Mexico". I wonder where do their guns come from.

Most probably come from the Mexican military or Police (corruption) or through the BATF (more corruption).  What I can pretty much guarantee you is that fully automatic weapons are not coming from American civilians.  They are too rare and too expensive.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2012, 05:38:20 PM
There is at the very least a BATF background check.  

Done by a shop assistant? BTW wikipedia says BATF controls only sellers. So how is it checked?

It is called in to the ATF, ID and any purchasing permits scanned, and name is run.  Paperwork is filled out and must be kept on record for a number of years.
Quote
Quote
Michal may have noticed the signs behind the firearms in the photos he posted noting that Federal laws regarding purchase would be recognized.  

Yeah... The first one is to be older than 21? What are the others two? One cannot wear a prison uniform or a foreign military uniform? One cannot be an evil alien?

The first is 21 to buy a handgun OR handgun ammunition.  Second is 18 to buy a rifle or shotgun or their corresponding ammunition.  Third would be to have valid identification (for the BATF check and yellow form I mentioned above).
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on September 13, 2012, 06:22:09 PM
No, these are free men who are not cattle like you ex-communists. 

Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Punch on September 13, 2012, 06:29:02 PM
Nice headline with no attached article.  Like a lot of your posts - a stupid statement followed by no evidence.

Did you really just post a picture of Walmart that is extremely old? They don't sell guns in their stores anymore, atleast the urban ones.

Rural ones, maybe. But they have scaled back alot. I know my local Walmarts do not carry weapons in the Outdoors section. Oh and they don't allow the sale of pistols either.

Oh really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703367004576289230488920802.html
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Shiny on September 13, 2012, 06:34:21 PM
That reminds me, isn't there supposed to be a description to that link Mr. Moderator? :police:
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Aindriú on September 13, 2012, 07:04:31 PM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

I didn't realize everyone in Poland had a state appointed bodyguard that not only followed you around, but slept with you.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Nephi on September 13, 2012, 07:39:52 PM
I didn't realize everyone in Poland had a state appointed bodyguard that not only followed you around, but slept with you.

:D
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2012, 11:14:00 PM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

I didn't realize everyone in Poland had a state appointed bodyguard that not only followed you around, but slept with you.

Yeah right.  If this were true and the bodyguard were a Polish chick I'd have long ago emigrated.

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3535/3201760850_bfd66f441a.jpg)

Yes, vamrat would totally give up his gunz and third world/fourth rome gangsta lifestyle and live in Michal-Kalinaland for any of them (though preferably the brunette on the left).
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on September 13, 2012, 11:21:59 PM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

But it is strong enough to have the largest proportionate number of citizens in jail in the world.

Yeah, I forgot about several things: world's biggest prison ratio, forcing confessions under torture, jailing people without trial and great influence of the army - these are also marks of some third world dictatorship.
We get it.  America is filled with evil yahoo cowboys who enjoy actions never seen in any other part of the world, ever. Your first hand accounting and experience of American society is spot on.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on September 14, 2012, 12:23:03 AM
Frankly I need to purchase a gun myself, can't sleep at night worrying about someone barging through my door getting mugged for my lunch money.
Not for lunch money, but it happens all the time.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Kerdy on September 14, 2012, 12:25:56 AM
Did you really just post a picture of Walmart that is extremely old? They don't sell guns in their stores anymore, atleast the urban ones.

Rural ones, maybe. But they have scaled back alot. I know my local Walmarts do not carry weapons in the Outdoors section. Oh and they don't allow the sale of pistols either.

Oh really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703367004576289230488920802.html
Which isn't too many, and as I said, since I live in an urbanized area, the Walmarts around me do not sell firearms.

Plus Firearms laws differ state to state. IIRC you just need a photo ID in some states.
Incorrect, all states must comply with federal regulations.  Your example doesn't happen, and if it did the store would lose its license.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: celticfan1888 on September 14, 2012, 01:21:52 AM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

But it is strong enough to have the largest proportionate number of citizens in jail in the world.

Yeah, I forgot about several things: world's biggest prison ratio, forcing confessions under torture, jailing people without trial and great influence of the army - these are also marks of some third world dictatorship.
We get it.  America is filled with evil yahoo cowboys who enjoy actions never seen in any other part of the world, ever. Your first hand accounting and experience of American society is spot on.

Kalina thinks that?  ???
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 14, 2012, 01:54:49 AM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

But it is strong enough to have the largest proportionate number of citizens in jail in the world.

Yeah, I forgot about several things: world's biggest prison ratio, forcing confessions under torture, jailing people without trial and great influence of the army - these are also marks of some third world dictatorship.
We get it.  America is filled with evil yahoo cowboys who enjoy actions never seen in any other part of the world, ever. Your first hand accounting and experience of American society is spot on.

Kalina thinks that?  ???

There's 12 pages here.  Ye'll find it somewhere herein.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: celticfan1888 on September 14, 2012, 02:00:28 AM
Your extrapolations about a Country I doubt you'd ever even been to are matched only by your phallic fixations.

You write that in the USA people are raped, robbed or murdered all the time. The state is too weak to protect the citizens (or the citizens do not want to be protected) so everyone own a gun (or a dozen). Guns are able to be bought everywhere including internet shops and supermarkets. Even small children own them and are taught to shoot. The state also cannot provide medical healthcare and education for its people. Authorities from all political options speak all the time about God and religion. The state regularly starts wars with other countries - these are the characteristics of a third world post-colonial country like Palestine, Syria or Somalia.

But it is strong enough to have the largest proportionate number of citizens in jail in the world.

Yeah, I forgot about several things: world's biggest prison ratio, forcing confessions under torture, jailing people without trial and great influence of the army - these are also marks of some third world dictatorship.
We get it.  America is filled with evil yahoo cowboys who enjoy actions never seen in any other part of the world, ever. Your first hand accounting and experience of American society is spot on.

Kalina thinks that?  ???

There's 12 pages here.  Ye'll find it somewhere herein.

America would be so much more fun with evil yahoo cowboys...actually the whole world would be. :police:
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Pan Michał on September 14, 2012, 06:41:51 AM
Yeah right.  If this were true and the bodyguard were a Polish chick I'd have long ago emigrated.

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3535/3201760850_bfd66f441a.jpg)

Hey, I actually know them (except of the blonde), we've worked in the same police headquarters!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on September 14, 2012, 10:59:58 AM
Yeah right.  If this were true and the bodyguard were a Polish chick I'd have long ago emigrated.

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3535/3201760850_bfd66f441a.jpg)

Hey, I actually know them (except of the blonde), we've worked in the same police headquarters!

Really?

Well, tell Brunette on the left that she has a secret admirer in the US.

EDIT, heck, you can tell both of 'em if you'd like... ;)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Pan Michał on September 14, 2012, 12:18:56 PM

Really?

Well, tell Brunette on the left that she has a secret admirer in the US.

EDIT, heck, you can tell both of 'em if you'd like... ;)

IIRC the one on the left wasn't married when I've worked there few years ago, which can't be said about one on the right - though if my memory won't fail me I'll tell them, when I'll meet them :>
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: sprtslvr1973 on October 29, 2013, 08:02:33 PM
(http://mirrorsoftheeverlasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2255754-old-orthodox-bible-on-linen-napkin.jpg)
+1
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: hecma925 on October 30, 2013, 08:06:55 AM
I have two Wal-Marts near me.  One sells rifles/shotguns; the other doesn't even have paintball guns.

I own a Romanian SAR1 (AK47 style) and a Winchester Model 1300 20 guage shotgun.  And an old off-brand .38 special.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: TheTrisagion on October 30, 2013, 08:42:26 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/A_popgun.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: hecma925 on October 30, 2013, 09:35:44 AM
You'll shoot your eye out!
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Gunnarr on November 01, 2013, 05:17:10 AM
Hyperdox herman does not use a gun! He uses a spear!

(http://i.imgur.com/DSoC4pS.jpg)
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: Santagranddad on November 01, 2013, 05:54:12 AM
That's why THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c)  Doesn't happen in America.


"NORTHeastern Mexico". I wonder where do their guns come from.

The tone of this thread is in itself disturbing, on an Orthodox Christian website.

Now correct me if I am wrong but hasn't there been a big scandal around the ATF, guns smuggled down into Mexico under their watchful eye and then for some the same guns to pop up back in the US and be used against folks there?

Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on November 01, 2013, 09:59:39 AM
That's why THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c)  Doesn't happen in America.


"NORTHeastern Mexico". I wonder where do their guns come from.

The tone of this thread is in itself disturbing, on an Orthodox Christian website.

Now correct me if I am wrong but hasn't there been a big scandal around the ATF, guns smuggled down into Mexico under their watchful eye and then for some the same guns to pop up back in the US and be used against folks there?



First sentence:  Yes, the tone of many threads can be considered disturbing.  Some of it is people just being silly and childish (like me  ;D).  Some of it is, well.....disturbing.

Second sentence: You are not wrong.
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: vamrat on November 01, 2013, 02:39:47 PM
That's why THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c)  Doesn't happen in America.


"NORTHeastern Mexico". I wonder where do their guns come from.

The tone of this thread is in itself disturbing, on an Orthodox Christian website.

Now correct me if I am wrong but hasn't there been a big scandal around the ATF, guns smuggled down into Mexico under their watchful eye and then for some the same guns to pop up back in the US and be used against folks there?



First sentence:  Yes, the tone of many threads can be considered disturbing.  Some of it is people just being silly and childish (like me  ;D).  Some of it is, well.....disturbing.

Second sentence: You are not wrong.

The only thing he is wrong on was the "big scandal" bit.  The perpetrators are coated in teflon. 
Title: Re: Show off your Guns!
Post by: J Michael on November 01, 2013, 03:39:21 PM
That's why THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HV089go6c)  Doesn't happen in America.


"NORTHeastern Mexico". I wonder where do their guns come from.

The tone of this thread is in itself disturbing, on an Orthodox Christian website.

Now correct me if I am wrong but hasn't there been a big scandal around the ATF, guns smuggled down into Mexico under their watchful eye and then for some the same guns to pop up back in the US and be used against folks there?



First sentence:  Yes, the tone of many threads can be considered disturbing.  Some of it is people just being silly and childish (like me  ;D).  Some of it is, well.....disturbing.

Second sentence: You are not wrong.

The only thing he is wrong on was the "big scandal" bit.  The perpetrators are coated in teflon. 

When the perps are the gummint, they're always teflonated--that is, until some kind of scape goat is needed.  For the rest of us, especially the people killed and their friends and families, yeah...big scandal.  (This might end up in "Politics"  :o )