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Moderated Forums => Liturgy => Topic started by: William on December 12, 2011, 06:40:42 PM

Title: Hiero minor orders?
Post by: William on December 12, 2011, 06:40:42 PM
Are there hierosubdeacons? Hieroreaders? Hierocantors? Or would some of the tonsure to such a position also be conferred with monastic tonsure? If not, how widespread are these offices?

I'm also curious as to how widespread the monastic diaconate is, if anyone has any information on that.
Title: Re: Hiero minor orders?
Post by: mike on December 12, 2011, 07:15:10 PM
I'm also curious as to how widespread the monastic diaconate is, if anyone has any information on that.

I've found about 7 in the POC, 0-2 per monastery.
Title: Re: Hiero minor orders?
Post by: Orthodox11 on December 12, 2011, 07:16:59 PM
I'm also curious as to how widespread the monastic diaconate is, if anyone has any information on that.

Every monastery I've been to has had deacons.
Title: Re: Hiero minor orders?
Post by: arimethea on December 12, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
Are there hierosubdeacons? Hieroreaders? Hierocantors? Or would some of the tonsure to such a position also be conferred with monastic tonsure? If not, how widespread are these offices?

I'm also curious as to how widespread the monastic diaconate is, if anyone has any information on that.

While technically there would be nothing wrong with nomenclature of using Hiero there seems to be this dichotomy between the minor orders and monastics. It is noticeable in how one receives communion. Even when a monk is of a minor order he is still communed as Monk Name. In the order of presvia the monastic stands before the non-monastic in duty.

What is of note, in every monastery I have visited, if a non-monastic subdeacon is present he is communed before the monastics that are not subdeacons.

Title: Re: Hiero minor orders?
Post by: akimori makoto on December 12, 2011, 09:25:37 PM
I've never understood the use of the prefix "hiero", given it means "priest" or "priestly".

It makes sense in the case of a priest-monk -- a "hieromonk" -- but I don't understand how it can be correctly applied to the "hierodeacon".
Title: Re: Hiero minor orders?
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on December 12, 2011, 10:20:53 PM
I've never understood the use of the prefix "hiero", given it means "priest" or "priestly".

It makes sense in the case of a priest-monk -- a "hieromonk" -- but I don't understand how it can be correctly applied to the "hierodeacon".

Nor to sub-deacons, readers, acolytes, chanters, etc...
Title: Re: Hiero minor orders?
Post by: JamesRottnek on December 13, 2011, 12:02:39 AM
I've never understood the use of the prefix "hiero", given it means "priest" or "priestly".

It makes sense in the case of a priest-monk -- a "hieromonk" -- but I don't understand how it can be correctly applied to the "hierodeacon".

I was just thinking this myself, a few minutes ago. 
Title: Re: Hiero minor orders?
Post by: John Ward on December 13, 2011, 03:14:18 AM
I've never understood the use of the prefix "hiero", given it means "priest" or "priestly".

It makes sense in the case of a priest-monk -- a "hieromonk" -- but I don't understand how it can be correctly applied to the "hierodeacon".

Hiero doesn't mean priest. It's sacred (as in Iera Moni), if I remember right and (again, if I recall correctly), when dealing with hieromonks and hierodeacons comes from older Byzantine times to separate married clergy from monastic clergy. I read about where "ίερο" comes from but it's been a while. Maybe someone has better information.
Title: Re: Hiero minor orders?
Post by: John Ward on December 13, 2011, 03:15:43 AM
I will add that I've never personally heard it applied to anyone except monastic priests & deacons.
Title: Re: Hiero minor orders?
Post by: mike on December 13, 2011, 07:03:51 AM
I've never understood the use of the prefix "hiero", given it means "priest" or "priestly".

It makes sense in the case of a priest-monk -- a "hieromonk" -- but I don't understand how it can be correctly applied to the "hierodeacon".

In the Slavic usage 'hiero' prefix appeals to monastics. But it is confusing a bit. Hierodeacon is a monk-deacon but the monk-presbyter is hieromonk instead of hieropresbyter.