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Moderated Forums => Free-For-All => Non-Religious Topics => Topic started by: Jetavan on November 07, 2011, 09:58:20 AM

Title: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Jetavan on November 07, 2011, 09:58:20 AM
Quote
We bring in the Greeks (http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/11/04/greeks) to talk about what’s ahead as their country teeters.

It’s all about the Greeks in Europe this week, and really around the world. The Greeks’ debt. The Greeks’ crisis. The Greeks’ stunner of a sudden conversation about voting on whether or not to accept their own bail-out from Europe and the pain that would come with it.
 
The “hemlock ballot,” wags called it – and it’s off, apparently, already. Greece got in way over its head on debt and spending. Now it’s in a world of hurt and struggling over how to respond. In the Euro-zone, or out. In the streets, or off.
 
This hour On Point: we talk with Greeks about their close encounter with Greek tragedy, and ours.
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: biro on November 07, 2011, 10:20:34 AM
I read the headline kinda wrong. A teetering Greece? I think they had one of those at the park when I was a kid.  ;)
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Alveus Lacuna on November 07, 2011, 12:00:06 PM
Here's the deal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bISfaVkszo0
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: augustin717 on November 07, 2011, 01:11:16 PM
Big financiers' heads (and a few others') should be carried on spears amid public jubilation,as they did to the princess of Lamballe.
http://a1reproductions.com/the-head-of-princess-lamballe-1749-92-displayed-in-paris-3rd-september-1792-by-h-de-la-charlerie.jpg (http://a1reproductions.com/the-head-of-princess-lamballe-1749-92-displayed-in-paris-3rd-september-1792-by-h-de-la-charlerie.jpg)
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Jason.Wike on November 07, 2011, 02:55:21 PM
I don't know a lot about Greece but something I've heard many, many Greeks say is that no one in Greece pays their taxes... seems like that might be part of the problem. Its easy to blame bankers but if absolutely no one pays their taxes its the entire country/culture's fault.
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: biro on November 07, 2011, 03:17:52 PM
I guess there's enough blame to go around. Hopefully they won't sink into the destitution that happened in some countries before WWII.  :-[
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Riddikulus on November 07, 2011, 04:46:29 PM
Here's the deal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bISfaVkszo0

Thanks for that, Alveus.
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: akimori makoto on November 07, 2011, 10:29:29 PM
I just read yesterday that 65% of Greeks are opposed to the proposed austerity measures and that 75% of Greeks want to remain in the eurozone.

Given that the austerity measures are a necessary precondition for obtaining the foreign finance required to remain in the eurozone, how do these statistics make any sense?

My only explanations are rather politically incorrect.
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: sainthieu on November 07, 2011, 11:08:03 PM
Big financiers' heads (and a few others') should be carried on spears amid public jubilation,as they did to the princess of Lamballe.

Just an aside: Your politics are nauseous. What are you doing wasting your time in a Christian forum? Sheer hostility, I would imagine.
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Ionnis on November 07, 2011, 11:10:21 PM
My only explanations are rather politically incorrect.

and probably correct.
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: augustin717 on November 07, 2011, 11:12:18 PM
Big financiers' heads (and a few others') should be carried on spears amid public jubilation,as they did to the princess of Lamballe.

Just an aside: Your politics are nauseous.
Just an aside: I feel the same about yours. And  I would add they only amount to continually fellating those with money.
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Ionnis on November 07, 2011, 11:18:25 PM
^Lovely. You have a way with words... :-/
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: biro on November 08, 2011, 12:08:39 AM
Looks around for the ban hammer...
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Basil 320 on November 08, 2011, 01:00:25 AM
I don't blame the banks, I blame the people who allowed socialism to destroy the spirit of a great industrious, heroic people.

PASOK (the Pan Hellenic Socialist Movement), let by Andreas Papandreou, destroyed Greece.  When his and the corruption of his government was exposed, he raised the pensions and expanded the government patronage and was reelected.  Over 10% of the populous "works" for the government; retiring at early ages; and pensions were paid over a 14 month period.  There's little if any manufacturing left.  PASOK  fully subsidized hotel and resort construction.  But the abuse of the tourists encouraged the Turks to develop their beaches, so tourists now take their holiday's in Turkey; how appropriate!  

The people who said "No" to Fascism and fought off the vile Communist civil war, are a minority living in villages and the islands  (or emigrated); they do not live in Athens and its environs.  Their PASOK government signed for the loans that they stole and couldn't afford to repay---now they blame the loaner and their terms?  America, take a lesson from the Greeks, see where socialism leads...

"The Wall Street Journal" classified them over a year ago, "PIIGS," Portugal, Italy-Ireland, Greece, Spain.

Poor Prime Minister George Papandreou, he tried but his father's policies destroyed the majority of the people.  "The sins of the father will be visited upon the son;" Is that the Old Testament quote?  How applicable.

Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: TheMathematician on November 08, 2011, 11:48:32 AM
Looks around for the ban hammer...

here, use mine

(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/2009/10/custom_1256950366573_banhammer15gq9.jpg)
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: biro on November 08, 2011, 01:21:31 PM
Grazie, montalo.  :)
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Fr. George on November 08, 2011, 02:39:29 PM
I don't blame the banks, I blame the people who allowed socialism to destroy the spirit of a great industrious, heroic people.

PASOK (the Pan Hellenic Socialist Movement), let by Andreas Papandreou, destroyed Greece.  When his and the corruption of his government was exposed, he raised the pensions and expanded the government patronage and was reelected.  Over 10% of the populous "works" for the government; retiring at early ages; and pensions were paid over a 14 month period.  There's little if any manufacturing left.  PASOK  fully subsidized hotel and resort construction.  But the abuse of the tourists encouraged the Turks to develop their beaches, so tourists now take their holiday's in Turkey; how appropriate! 

The people who said "No" to Fascism and fought off the vile Communist civil war, are a minority living in villages and the islands  (or emigrated); they do not live in Athens and its environs.  Their PASOK government signed for the loans that they stole and couldn't afford to repay---now they blame the loaner and their terms?  America, take a lesson from the Greeks, see where socialism leads...

"The Wall Street Journal" classified them over a year ago, "PIIGS," Portugal, Italy-Ireland, Greece, Spain.

Poor Prime Minister George Papandreou, he tried but his father's policies destroyed the majority of the people.  "The sins of the father will be visited upon the son;" Is that the Old Testament quote?  How applicable.

That's most of the story; but that doesn't excuse the awful human invention of profiting on another's debt which then grows their debt.  What banks did to the housing market they're doing to under-performing economies, hastening decline while lining their pockets.
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Fr. George on November 08, 2011, 02:53:42 PM
Greece should just default on their loans.  They've done it before, and won in International Court when sued under the principle that their primary responsibility is to their citizens, and debt payments cannot be forced if it will prevent fulfilling its duties to said citizens.

http://www.worldcourts.com/pcij/eng/decisions/1939.06.15_societe_commerciale.htm
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on November 08, 2011, 03:04:58 PM
I don't know a lot about Greece but something I've heard many, many Greeks say is that no one in Greece pays their taxes... seems like that might be part of the problem. Its easy to blame bankers but if absolutely no one pays their taxes its the entire country/culture's fault.

When I lived in Italy, I noticed that the national sport was not soccer but evading taxes (at least in the Southern half of the country). This is not my opinion or conclusion but something that almost all Italians that I spoke to agreed on. Another validation of Adam Smith and repudiation of Communists who do not know their Marx..
Title: Re: Greeks On A Teetering Greece
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on November 08, 2011, 03:20:23 PM
Big financiers' heads (and a few others') should be carried on spears amid public jubilation,as they did to the princess of Lamballe.

Just an aside: Your politics are nauseous.
Just an aside: I feel the same about yours. And  I would add they only amount to continually fellating those with money.

You know that there is a better way of saying this. Even though this is part of the Free For All forum, the following rules still apply:

* Respect Others -- Things can (and do) get heated on this board... Keep civil and respectful of others.

* Proper Language -- Offensive terms may be bannable based on the context of the sentence. Please use common sense when posting.  If you wouldn't say it in church, chances are it probably won't be appropriate here.  

I am posting this publicly so that all may be reminded of the rules. Thanks, Second Chance (not posting as this section's moderator)

ADDED on 11/12/2011: Augustin--I took your egregious infraction of the rules to the Board. I have been authorized to put you on warning for 30 days. Any further infraction of the rules listed above will result in additional disciplinary actions. Second Chance