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General Forums => Prayer Forum => Topic started by: akimori makoto on October 08, 2011, 09:10:24 PM

Title: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: akimori makoto on October 08, 2011, 09:10:24 PM
I'm at my wit's end. The obscene, disrespectful, generally irreverent and personally rude behaviour that goes on in my parish is slowly driving me to stop going to Church.

Please pray that I will get my head and heart in the right place and keep going to Church.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: zekarja on October 08, 2011, 09:23:27 PM
Lord, have mercy! I pray that things get better. Remember the prize at the end of the race.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Riddikulus on October 08, 2011, 09:25:23 PM
Lord, have mercy on your servant.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Stephanos Nikolaos on October 08, 2011, 09:25:49 PM
Lord, have mercy!
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Gisasargavak on October 08, 2011, 09:43:29 PM
Lord have mercy on you and your parish.

Wisdom of the Father, Jesus, give to your servant the wisdom to be able to discern how to approach this current situation, amen.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: biro on October 08, 2011, 10:36:10 PM
Lord have mercy.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Cognomen on October 08, 2011, 10:39:41 PM
Very sorry to read this.  Lord, have mercy.

Where's the priest in this mess?
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Alveus Lacuna on October 08, 2011, 11:02:24 PM
Lord, have mercy!
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Hiwot on October 08, 2011, 11:23:25 PM
Lord have mercy!
ah! i would also say whatever you do, do not engage this spirit directly with those that it motivates, it will only harm you, takes away you peace, so stay calm and pray for the spirit of humility and love, attend all the services,keep in mind that sometimes trials come to the individual or to the group as a whole, so this is a time to hold on. the whole parish needs prayers right now, this is not an easy matter. i have seen parishes unravelled when this spirit took over. Lord have mercy!
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Volnutt on October 08, 2011, 11:51:55 PM
Lord have mercy.

Maybe you should try a different parish.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: ialmisry on October 09, 2011, 12:49:26 AM
Lord have mercy!


If your parish didn't have saint-makers, how would you become a saint?
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: JamesRottnek on October 09, 2011, 01:24:22 AM
Lord have mercy!
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Robb on October 09, 2011, 01:48:28 AM
Lord have mercy, is there perhaps another parish you could go to (If your curent one is causing you to fall into such despair)?
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: NicholasMyra on October 09, 2011, 02:12:24 AM
Lord, have mercy.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: arnI on October 09, 2011, 08:05:46 AM
I'm at my wit's end. The obscene, disrespectful, generally irreverent and personally rude behaviour that goes on in my parish is slowly driving me to stop going to Church.

Please pray that I will get my head and heart in the right place and keep going to Church.

During Divine Services? During social time after Services? During other activities?

My own guidelines for Services:  Sit as close to the front as possible and close to the center. Focus on the Services (Priest/Chanters/Choir/etc.) without regard to what go on behind or beside you. Prior to and after communion focus on the preparation and thanksgiving prayers. Have a prayer taped in your Service book or otherwise available to pray during times that you may be easily distracted.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: SDMPNS on October 09, 2011, 08:26:51 AM
I have the same problem but I've just let go and look to my own behavior..People in my parish talk and jabber during Church and while they go up to Communion shake hands and visit..I do not know their heart and I cannot and will not judge..I remember how I was raised and how my Baba and mother taught me how to behave so all of this is on me...I do ,however,refuse to talk in Church beyond a nod and "good morning"...Its kind of funny when people start to engage and I just say. " I'm sorry but I was taught to not talk in Church"....
I often wonder what people believe happens during Communion..but I know what I was taught so I behave accordingly.."put away all earthly cares" includes who is dating whom and how hard it is to find a parking place and all of this can be discussed during coffee hour if it needs to be discussed at all......
Having pews {YUCK} does make it more difficult to move...
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Shanghaiski on October 09, 2011, 02:29:45 PM
Lord have mercy!


If your parish didn't have saint-makers, how would you become a saint?

Exactly.

This may sound trite, but it's just distilled from what I've read about holy people. When we adopt a positive attitude toward others, especially if they aggravate us, we create a change for the better in them and in us. Rather than become angry and stay away, we ought all the more to struggle and keep going and ask for God's help to be able to see our disrespectful brethren as still better than ourselves, for the visible hardly ever corresponds, in the truth of things, to the invisible. Our Lord appeared as an ordinary man, and yet was God. We appear pious, and yet harbor all kinds of filth in our hearts. Others may appear impious and disrespectful, and yet they do not indulge in passions as we do. We can't know. We are called to be a light to the world and to bear the burdens of others.

May God help you, them, and all of us.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: IsmiLiora on October 09, 2011, 04:02:03 PM
Oh Akimori, I know how you feel. :( the others do have good points about sticking it out. of course it is ultimately your decision but an ailing church needs people and belong to the body of the church in their unique way. If we all just left, what will be left?

I feel I might be sympathetic to your circumstances so Pm me if you need to rant.

Lord have mercy!
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: scamandrius on October 09, 2011, 05:21:15 PM
I totally understand where you're coming from, Akimori. I have wrestled with these same issues.  While it is easy to agree with Isa and stick it out for the sake of the kingdom, it is always so much harder to do it.  And while it is easy to also leave to find another parish, I don't think any parish (outside of a monastic church) will give you that sense of "quiet" for you to appropriately pray for your soul and those of others.  So, I am sorry that I have no solutions to give to you.  But your prayers are also mine.

One thing that you should absolutely do which has been already suggested:  Please, talk to your priest.  And do so, ASAP.

Kyrie eleison.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Clancy Boy on October 09, 2011, 06:12:48 PM
Try a ROCOR church.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: samkim on October 09, 2011, 06:50:58 PM
I'm at my wit's end. The obscene, disrespectful, generally irreverent and personally rude behaviour that goes on in my parish is slowly driving me to stop going to Church.

Please pray that I will get my head and heart in the right place and keep going to Church.

I used to have similar thoughts about my own parish, then I realized it's no more than I deserve. Who am I to complain? Ya know...
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: akimori makoto on October 09, 2011, 10:28:34 PM
Sensitive and nuanced advice from different perspectives -- thank you all so much for taking the time to pray for this unworthy sinner.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: akimori makoto on October 09, 2011, 10:29:11 PM
Try a ROCOR church.

This is quickly becoming an attractive option.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Shiny on October 09, 2011, 10:51:02 PM
Try a ROCOR church.

This is quickly becoming an attractive option.
If you're single, do it.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: FountainPen on October 30, 2011, 08:31:38 PM
akimori makoto
Quote
Please pray that I will get my head and heart in the right place and keep going to Church.

Still praying and hoping that this is the case.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Volnutt on October 30, 2011, 08:55:00 PM
Me too.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: akimori makoto on February 28, 2012, 03:54:34 PM
*Bump*

Immediately following forgiveness vespers (I kid you not), my mum and I got verbally abused and physically intimidated by insane Greeks for our apparently bad parking.

What is with these people? How do they call themselves Christians when they are so full of malice and spite and hypocrisy? Is this a church or some sort of glorified marketplace of whores, robbers and liars?

I can't take this crap any more. I feel like I am going to snap one day and find the most WASP-y church possible and start attending there, just for a little sanity ...
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: NicholasMyra on February 28, 2012, 03:56:48 PM
*Bump*

Immediately following forgiveness vespers (I kid you not), my mum and I got verbally abused and physically intimidated by insane Greeks for our apparently bad parking.

What is with these people? How do they call themselves Christians when they are so full of malice and spite and hypocrisy? Is this a church or some sort of glorified marketplace of whores, robbers and liars?

I can't take this crap any more. I feel like I am going to snap one day and find the most WASP-y church possible and start attending there, just for a little sanity ...
Akimori,

Please leave Australia. Come to America or Canada. There is nothing for you in that forsaken desert.

Have you ever looked at a Kangaroo's arms? No animal should have to have such arms.

Lord, have mercy
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: FountainPen on February 28, 2012, 04:23:22 PM
*Bump*

Immediately following forgiveness vespers (I kid you not), my mum and I got verbally abused and physically intimidated by insane Greeks for our apparently bad parking.

What is with these people? How do they call themselves Christians when they are so full of malice and spite and hypocrisy? Is this a church or some sort of glorified marketplace of whores, robbers and liars?

I can't take this crap any more. I feel like I am going to snap one day and find the most WASP-y church possible and start attending there, just for a little sanity ...
Akimori,

Please leave Australia. Come to America or Canada. There is nothing for you in that forsaken desert.

Have you ever looked at a Kangaroo's arms? No animal should have to have such arms.

Lord, have mercy

Nicholas might have a point. I'd consider Britain as well; we have nice butterflies and no guns.

#laughs

Seriously though, i am still praying for your situation.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: vamrat on February 28, 2012, 05:44:13 PM
*Bump*

Immediately following forgiveness vespers (I kid you not), my mum and I got verbally abused and physically intimidated by insane Greeks for our apparently bad parking.

What is with these people? How do they call themselves Christians when they are so full of malice and spite and hypocrisy? Is this a church or some sort of glorified marketplace of whores, robbers and liars?

I can't take this crap any more. I feel like I am going to snap one day and find the most WASP-y church possible and start attending there, just for a little sanity ...
Akimori,

Please leave Australia. Come to America or Canada. There is nothing for you in that forsaken desert.

Have you ever looked at a Kangaroo's arms? No animal should have to have such arms.

Lord, have mercy

Nicholas might have a point. I'd consider Britain as well; we have nice butterflies and no guns.

#laughs

Seriously though, i am still praying for your situation.

You're more than welcome to come to Omaha.  We have plenty of nice Orthodox Churches in town and we haven't hung or run Greeks out of town since the early 1900's!

Also, we too have butterflies, and lots of guns!

All the same, I will pray for you that God gives you comfort in this issue, my friend.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: mabsoota on February 28, 2012, 06:12:30 PM
fountain pen, didn't know u were in britain too, did u actually see any butterflies yet? it is much warmer than last week, so maybe there are some already. i wish u a lovely spring with many butterflies.

aikimori makoto, i also think u should visit another orthodox church. not to leave yr church, but just to find some spiritual food while u work on becoming a saint so u can love yr church more (and when u are a saint, pls tell us sinners how to love others more as well!)
if the other churches are terrible too, maybe u have a problem and u will get an idea what u have to work on. if the other churches are much more helpful, then u will have the spiritual nourishment u need to learn how to deal with yr church. sometimes people in the church do need to make changes, but u need to be humble about it, and i pray God will show u how to do that.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Maximum Bob on February 29, 2012, 12:23:00 AM
Lord, have mercy.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Ionnis on February 29, 2012, 12:28:54 AM
:( Lord have mercy!
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Maria on February 29, 2012, 12:58:27 AM
Lord have mercy.

Perhaps look into the ROCOR or an Old Calendar Church?
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: IXOYE on February 29, 2012, 01:07:28 AM
Lord, have mercy!
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: katherine 2001 on February 29, 2012, 07:55:04 AM
I hate to tell you this, but there are sinners in the ROCOR and Old Calendar churches as well.  I bet any priests of those churches would tell you that you could very well run into these problems at any parish, unfortunately. 
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: orthonorm on February 29, 2012, 12:05:10 PM
Lord have mercy.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Nigula Qian Zishi on February 29, 2012, 01:40:45 PM
Have you shared these thoughts with your priest in confession?
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: LizaSymonenko on February 29, 2012, 02:24:04 PM

Akimori, I'm sorry to hear how you were treated!  Remember, these are just people, and they aren't perfect.  Perhaps the husband and wife quarreled and simply took their frustration out on you.

You should pity the poor souls who can't control their temper, their actions or words.

You're need to simply "let it go".  I know it's hard, but, people will be rude to you, no matter where you are.  Don't take it to heart.

...like water off a ducks back.

Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Papist on February 29, 2012, 03:56:44 PM
Lord, have mercy.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: akimori makoto on February 29, 2012, 05:13:39 PM
Thank you all so much, for the prayers, the encouragement, the advice and for just allowing me a place to vent.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: akimori makoto on February 29, 2012, 05:15:11 PM
Have you shared these thoughts with your priest in confession?

I haven't, because I feel a strong temptation to allow the confession to become a private bitching session.

Father is aware of how I feel, though perhaps not the specifics of what goes on when he's not looking.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Volnutt on February 29, 2012, 05:55:33 PM
I think you should go for anyway. Tell him to tell you to shut up if you get too rant-ish, since you're worried about it.  ;)

At the very least, he should probably know some of the specifics.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: augustin717 on February 29, 2012, 05:57:15 PM
In cases like that I would have just cussed back, and barely remembered the incident after. It works better.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Punch on February 29, 2012, 06:12:24 PM
In cases like that I would have just cussed back, and barely remembered the incident after. It works better.

I am pretty much with you on this one.  Better to have to confess a few terse words said to these people than have my whole faith in danger because I held it in.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Volnutt on February 29, 2012, 06:16:12 PM
In cases like that I would have just cussed back, and barely remembered the incident after. It works better.

I am pretty much with you on this one.  Better to have to confess a few terse words said to these people than have my whole faith in danger because I held it in.
I dunno, that sounds like quite a slippery slope. Then again, my faith is always in danger, so I'm likely not the world's best authority.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Punch on February 29, 2012, 11:48:35 PM
In cases like that I would have just cussed back, and barely remembered the incident after. It works better.

I am pretty much with you on this one.  Better to have to confess a few terse words said to these people than have my whole faith in danger because I held it in.
I dunno, that sounds like quite a slippery slope. Then again, my faith is always in danger, so I'm likely not the world's best authority.

Probably is a slippery slope.  However, I find that when I tell someone to have aerial intercourse with a rolling pastry, I tend to feel bad about it rather quickly.  When I "turn the other cheek", I tend to stew about it for a long time.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: orthonorm on February 29, 2012, 11:52:02 PM
I find that when I tell someone to have aerial intercourse with a rolling pastry

I am starting to see the dangers the Tollhouses truly pose.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Maria on March 01, 2012, 12:12:32 AM
I hate to tell you this, but there are sinners in the ROCOR and Old Calendar churches as well.  I bet any priests of those churches would tell you that you could very well run into these problems at any parish, unfortunately.  

Yes, we are all sinners.

However, when I encountered a similar situation in an OCA church, we left that parish as did many other folks. Finally, the Bishop noticed the revenues were drastically down and took action against several nasty parishioners. I am very delighted to be in an Old Calendar parish now where people truly do love one another.  Sometimes changing parishes is in your best interest

To the OP: I will pray for you.

Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: mabsoota on March 01, 2012, 03:46:26 PM
if u curse someone, u need to repent in front of them and in front of God. if u 'hold it in', u only need to repent in front of God. 'holding it in' is only dangerous if u don't 'let it out' before God in repentance and in response to His love that can cast our all fear, calm every storm and renew every repentant sinner.

it is ok to then calmly go up to the person that annoyed u and explain that their behaviour caused u discomfort and u would prefer it if they did not speak to u like that in the future.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: Punch on March 01, 2012, 04:30:03 PM
if u curse someone, u need to repent in front of them and in front of God. if u 'hold it in', u only need to repent in front of God. 'holding it in' is only dangerous if u don't 'let it out' before God in repentance and in response to His love that can cast our all fear, calm every storm and renew every repentant sinner.

it is ok to then calmly go up to the person that annoyed u and explain that their behaviour caused u discomfort and u would prefer it if they did not speak to u like that in the future.

How can I trust the advice of someone who cannot spell "you"?
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: biro on March 01, 2012, 04:36:57 PM
On the parking issue: is it possible you could switch to public transportation? Then you don't have to meet these folks in the parking lot anymore. Just a thought.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: mabsoota on March 01, 2012, 05:02:14 PM
punch, you don't have to trust me, especially as i don't use capital letters either so might be a bot...
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: orthodoxchristianonline on March 06, 2012, 07:23:38 PM
Lord have mercy. 

A prayer can do wonders.
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: biro on March 06, 2012, 11:09:28 PM
punch, you don't have to trust me, especially as i don't use capital letters either so might be a bot...

I don't think you're a bot.   :)
Title: Re: I can barely abide Church these days
Post by: mabsoota on March 07, 2012, 05:39:38 AM
thank u!
thanks for all yr interesting posts as well.
note: no link in signature advertising, so not bot.
 ;)