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Moderated Forums => Other Topics => Topic started by: orthonorm on July 23, 2011, 01:44:59 AM

Title: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on July 23, 2011, 01:44:59 AM
First of all, calm down guys. This server can handle only so many PMs from all you guys asking for wisdom on women.

Now, I cannot answer all your questions at once. I will try to get to them all, but let be honest, there is only of me and evidently hundreds of you.

You might think why should I trust this abrasive guy on the internet who I have never met? Well, look at what your weekends are like now. Without bragging, I am capable of leading a colorful life of dating, committing myself to wonderful monogamous relationships, and more importantly not caring with I am alone or in a relationship.

My neurotic observation of myself and others have allowed me the gift to make somewhat formulaic the charm and charisma of which I am a fount. While it is unlikely you will ever obtain the fluency in dealing with women I was born, you certainly will no longer slouch around unconfidently watching women come and go while you are left with your Xbox as your closest companion.

Your reservations about heeding my words are understandable, as in real life, nearly the first question everyone asks whomever I am with is: Why are you with HIM? Usually guys who will forever be in the dark about how to interact with women on any level.

The entries may be provocative at times. Seem trivial at others. Some perhaps not so kosher from an Orthodox perspective, but some of you need a little freedom to fall and get back up again before you can start getting all hyperOrthodox in your love life. Sides, I see a tendency to believe that your faith stands in your way.

It doesn't.

Feel free to chime in with questions. But I will not suffer too many nay-sayers.

MODs, please allow this thread to continue. The ability for men to find partners to procreate with is of the utmost importance in the growth of Orthodoxy.



 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Andrew Crook on July 23, 2011, 02:29:58 AM
ROFL!!  :D :D :D  This reminds me of those "Ladies' Man" skits from Saturday Night Live..
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on July 23, 2011, 02:43:02 AM
Everything I know about picking up womenz I learnt from Ray William Johnson (http://youtu.be/Z3NcrJq-8UA). Unless you have something to add to his system, I don't think this thread will go far.

Nonetheless, I will watch with interest.

Question #1: Where can I find a girl who is freaky but doesn't have any STDs? (seriously)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on July 23, 2011, 03:38:17 AM
Considering your lack of skills in the bedroom I will probe this thread with agnosticism.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on July 23, 2011, 03:38:17 AM
Also an Orthodox solution: If you are male and single, join ROCOR. I have met plenty of young, eligible Russian girls who seem to be quite keen on settling down and making babies.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on July 23, 2011, 03:38:17 AM
Question #1: Where can I find a girl who is freaky but doesn't have any STDs? (seriously)

My girlfriend is taken, sorry.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on July 23, 2011, 10:00:29 AM
Recently, in San Fransisco of all places, God found a man who reminded Him so much of Solomon that He decided to grant this man a wish.  So He came to the man and told Him, "I have found you to be special among men.  Ask of me anything, and I will grant it to you."  The man thought for a minute and said, "My old mother has always wanted to go to Hawaii, yet she is afraid to fly and gets very sick when she is on a boat.  Could you make a bridge between Hawaii and here so that she could visit by automobile?"  God was very disappointed.  Solomon had asked for wisdom, and this guy wants a bridge to Hawaii.  God said to him "I, who am omnipotent, have wanted to grant you one wish, and this is the best that you could do?  Solomon asked for wisdom, and you ask for a bridge?"  The man was filled with shame and repented and said, "Yes, that was truly frivolous.  Instead, I ask this of You: Could you please help me understand women?"  There was a great silence, like unto had never been experienced on the Earth.  Then God said "Did you want that bridge to have two lanes or four?"

I hope that was not blasphemous, but I think of this story anytime a man proclaims that he is in the business of giving relationship advice.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on July 23, 2011, 10:29:58 AM
This reminded me of a song for some reason, well a combination of this and that other thread that was going for a while. Don't know why, just made me think of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUCCjmvdgSQ
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on July 25, 2011, 01:34:31 PM
Orthonorm, I have been having tons of problems finding a girl recently.  I found this nice one at the mall the other day, and after watching her with her friends for three hours I felt like we were a perfect match.  I went up to her and told her that if she married me I had a nice kitchen and would be willing to give her father up to three goats.  As I sat in the mall security office all I could think about was how much her rejection hurt me.  I mean, I really can't afford four goats, but the kitchen is nice, I even showed her pictures of it.  What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on July 25, 2011, 01:38:09 PM
Orthonorm? Why have you abandoned us? I saw you online yesterday, so don't give me no malarkey about being away!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on July 25, 2011, 02:14:04 PM
Orthonorm, I have been having tons of problems finding a girl recently.  I found this nice one at the mall the other day, and after watching her with her friends for three hours I felt like we were a perfect match.  I went up to her and told her that if she married me I had a nice kitchen and would be willing to give her father up to three goats.  As I sat in the mall security office all I could think about was how much her rejection hurt me.  I mean, I really can't afford four goats, but the kitchen is nice, I even showed her pictures of it.  What am I doing wrong?

You spoke to her.  You should have used ether and then told the security officer that your girlfriend fainted and asked if he could help you carry her to your car.  Or, if you would have thought ahead, you could have had your dad and brothers standing by to help as soon as the ether did its job.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 25, 2011, 02:15:22 PM
Come on, guys, orthonorm's thread might be a bunch of malarkey on its own. We need proof.

We should have a single female member volunteer to go on a date with orthonorm (Orthodox approved!), return, and report to a council of 5 women. Once we approve, only then will he be permitted to carry on with his advice column.

If there are any volunteers, please PM me. Women only..

Thanks --
IsmiLiora



Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on July 25, 2011, 02:29:24 PM
Orthonorm, I have been having tons of problems finding a girl recently.  I found this nice one at the mall the other day, and after watching her with her friends for three hours I felt like we were a perfect match.  I went up to her and told her that if she married me I had a nice kitchen and would be willing to give her father up to three goats.  As I sat in the mall security office all I could think about was how much her rejection hurt me.  I mean, I really can't afford four goats, but the kitchen is nice, I even showed her pictures of it.  What am I doing wrong?

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd6C9_WzkR8) is how it's done.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on July 25, 2011, 02:35:03 PM
Is Orthonorm going to discuss the "find a woman at the mall, compare her style of dress to that of a lady of the night, then take it upon yourself to be her shining moral compass after chivalrously offering to buy her a cornucopia of McDonalds hashbrown patties" approach?

Remember, it's only real love if you have to do all the work.

Also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmD-wDEeOds
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on July 25, 2011, 04:03:18 PM
Orthonorm, I have been having tons of problems finding a girl recently.  I found this nice one at the mall the other day, and after watching her with her friends for three hours I felt like we were a perfect match.  I went up to her and told her that if she married me I had a nice kitchen and would be willing to give her father up to three goats.  As I sat in the mall security office all I could think about was how much her rejection hurt me.  I mean, I really can't afford four goats, but the kitchen is nice, I even showed her pictures of it.  What am I doing wrong?
Her loss, goats rule.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: KBN1 on July 25, 2011, 04:38:11 PM
This is awesome.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on July 26, 2011, 01:09:20 PM
Quote
Orthonorm, I have been having tons of problems finding a girl recently.  I found this nice one at the mall the other day, and after watching her with her friends for three hours I felt like we were a perfect match.  I went up to her and told her that if she married me I had a nice kitchen and would be willing to give her father up to three goats.  As I sat in the mall security office all I could think about was how much her rejection hurt me.  I mean, I really can't afford four goats, but the kitchen is nice, I even showed her pictures of it.  What am I doing wrong?

Chicks are so touchy......
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on July 26, 2011, 01:16:41 PM
Quote
Orthonorm, I have been having tons of problems finding a girl recently.  I found this nice one at the mall the other day, and after watching her with her friends for three hours I felt like we were a perfect match.  I went up to her and told her that if she married me I had a nice kitchen and would be willing to give her father up to three goats.  As I sat in the mall security office all I could think about was how much her rejection hurt me.  I mean, I really can't afford four goats, but the kitchen is nice, I even showed her pictures of it.  What am I doing wrong?

Chicks are so touchy......

I know, right?  I found out where she lives and as soon as I get this restraining order taken care of I'm going to proposition her dad directly.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on July 26, 2011, 01:29:34 PM
Quote
Orthonorm, I have been having tons of problems finding a girl recently.  I found this nice one at the mall the other day, and after watching her with her friends for three hours I felt like we were a perfect match.  I went up to her and told her that if she married me I had a nice kitchen and would be willing to give her father up to three goats.  As I sat in the mall security office all I could think about was how much her rejection hurt me.  I mean, I really can't afford four goats, but the kitchen is nice, I even showed her pictures of it.  What am I doing wrong?

Chicks are so touchy......

I know, right?  I found out where she lives and as soon as I get this restraining order taken care of I'm going to proposition her dad directly.

I'm telling you guys, ether is the way to go.  I mean, I should know, seeing that I am married.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Fabio Leite on July 26, 2011, 01:45:49 PM
Recently, in San Fransisco of all places, God found a man who reminded Him so much of Solomon that He decided to grant this man a wish.  So He came to the man and told Him, "I have found you to be special among men.  Ask of me anything, and I will grant it to you."  The man thought for a minute and said, "My old mother has always wanted to go to Hawaii, yet she is afraid to fly and gets very sick when she is on a boat.  Could you make a bridge between Hawaii and here so that she could visit by automobile?"  God was very disappointed.  Solomon had asked for wisdom, and this guy wants a bridge to Hawaii.  God said to him "I, who am omnipotent, have wanted to grant you one wish, and this is the best that you could do?  Solomon asked for wisdom, and you ask for a bridge?"  The man was filled with shame and repented and said, "Yes, that was truly frivolous.  Instead, I ask this of You: Could you please help me understand women?"  There was a great silence, like unto had never been experienced on the Earth.  Then God said "Did you want that bridge to have two lanes or four?"

I hope that was not blasphemous, but I think of this story anytime a man proclaims that he is in the business of giving relationship advice.

I know that one a bit differently.

One day a man finds a lamp and out of it comes a genie. "Listen, we're going through tough economic times, so we no longer grant three wishes, just one. So choose wisely." The man thinks hard and says "I want you to solve the problem of poverty in Africa!" The genie rolled his eyes and replied "C'mon, do you see 'Mother Theresa' on my badge? The sheer amount of power to do that goes against all our magic austerity norms, get real man...". The man then thinks a bit more and pulling a photo of a woman from his wallet says "This is my wife, I want you to make her beautiful." The genie put his hand over his mouth, looked for a second and replied "Alright, show me that world map with Africa again..."
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on July 26, 2011, 02:33:32 PM
From the PMs (thanks to the Mods for giving a few gigabytes of storage to receive all the PMs) and the replies in this thread, I fear my work shall more difficult than first thought.

Currently nursing or being nursed (let's be honest about who we are talking about here) through some weird immune thing. I have a strange virus, an autoimmune disorder, or cancer.

I am hoping for cancer. I could probably get a buncha my co-workers to run around with my face on a t-shirt in attempt to cure me.

Ain't if it ain't lung cancer, I get a ribbon of some sort as well.

Nevertheless, expect my first attempt to put the pro back into procreation around here by weekend's end.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Irish_Melkite on July 26, 2011, 02:46:26 PM
From the PMs (thanks to the Mods for giving a few gigabytes of storage to receive all the PMs) and the replies in this thread, I fear my work shall more difficult than first thought.

Currently nursing or being nursed (let's be honest about who we are talking about here) through some weird immune thing. I have a strange virus, an autoimmune disorder, or cancer.

I am hoping for cancer. I could probably get a buncha my co-workers to run around with my face on a t-shirt in attempt to cure me.

Ain't if it ain't lung cancer, I get a ribbon of some sort as well.

Nevertheless, expect my first attempt to put the pro back into procreation around here by weekend's end.

You don't want cancer.  Been there, done that.... TWICE!  Serious.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 26, 2011, 02:54:07 PM
From the PMs (thanks to the Mods for giving a few gigabytes of storage to receive all the PMs) and the replies in this thread, I fear my work shall more difficult than first thought.

Currently nursing or being nursed (let's be honest about who we are talking about here) through some weird immune thing. I have a strange virus, an autoimmune disorder, or cancer.

I am hoping for cancer. I could probably get a buncha my co-workers to run around with my face on a t-shirt in attempt to cure me.

Ain't if it ain't lung cancer, I get a ribbon of some sort as well.

Nevertheless, expect my first attempt to put the pro back into procreation around here by weekend's end.

Oh!  Come on!  Don't joke about things like this.  Cancer is not funny.

If you want folks to run around with your face on their T-Shirts just ask....we'll do it for you even if you are healthy.

Seriously.  Cancer is no joking matter.  Be careful what you wish for.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Irish_Melkite on July 26, 2011, 03:04:13 PM
From the PMs (thanks to the Mods for giving a few gigabytes of storage to receive all the PMs) and the replies in this thread, I fear my work shall more difficult than first thought.

Currently nursing or being nursed (let's be honest about who we are talking about here) through some weird immune thing. I have a strange virus, an autoimmune disorder, or cancer.

I am hoping for cancer. I could probably get a buncha my co-workers to run around with my face on a t-shirt in attempt to cure me.

Ain't if it ain't lung cancer, I get a ribbon of some sort as well.

Nevertheless, expect my first attempt to put the pro back into procreation around here by weekend's end.

Oh!  Come on!  Don't joke about things like this.  Cancer is not funny.

If you want folks to run around with your face on their T-Shirts just ask....we'll do it for you even if you are healthy.

Seriously.  Cancer is no joking matter.  Be careful what you wish for.



I'm in TOTAL agreement with Liza.  I had a football-sized tumor removed from my chest less than 4 years ago... I thought the surgery was bad.... then I found out what radiation treatments feel like.  I would not wish that on my worst enemy, if I had one.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on July 31, 2011, 01:16:28 AM
The first tip is an oldie but a goodie and contains a lot of truth, especially in the hands of someone who actually understands the nuance behind it.

Tell a smart girl she is pretty and a pretty girl she is smart.

Before you women get your skirts in a twist and say: can't a woman be both?!?!?! Of course. But the point of pithy statements is not to be 100% accurate. They contain truths writ broad that if one truly understands can be used to much advantage.

This statement sums up on how to properly give compliments which will actually resonate with whomever you are speaking, even men. But since women are the subject, let's stick with them.

Men seem absolutely oblivious on how to compliment women from first encounter and throughout their relationships, if they manage to get that far.

Most women who catch your attention do so for a particular reason, especially if in a social setting where you are pretty much unknown to each other. Guess what? Every other bore in her life was probably attracted to her for the same reason and she has heard the same compliments her whole life.

People know their "strengths". Because they have been told about them all their lives. Often these strengths are not what they want to be noticed for or have appreciated. They want to be understood and appreciated for the qualities they wish to aspire to have, feel they might, but get overshadowed by their outstanding qualities.

So how do you effectively and sincerely compliment a woman, whether it be day one or day one hundred?

That my friends will follow.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on July 31, 2011, 01:28:17 AM
Come on, guys, orthonorm's thread might be a bunch of malarkey on its own. We need proof.

We should have a single female member volunteer to go on a date with orthonorm (Orthodox approved!), return, and report to a council of 5 women.

I don't like to talk out of school, but if you really need proof that I put the nova into casanova, I'll send you a council of five women. We didn't call it a council though . . . and my French ain't good enough to count to six, so I don't have a polite way of describing it in respectable company. //:=)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Irish Melkite on July 31, 2011, 03:33:16 AM
Question #1: Where can I find a girl who is freaky but doesn't have any STDs? (seriously)

For those who might have been shocked by his usage, it should be understood that, by 'STDs', our brother was referring to 'Serious Theological Deficiencies'. Right, Asteriktos?

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on July 31, 2011, 08:05:28 PM
Dear Readers,

I will not be posting in this thread during the fast due the tone and nature of possible posts. But fear not, I will return to help you poor souls who have taken more ribbing than Adam for being alone with no mate to show for it, except for that 13 year old kid in Australia you play Red Dead Redemption with online.

Till then,

Orthonorm

  
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on July 31, 2011, 08:23:29 PM
Dear Readers,

I will not be posting in this thread during the fast due the tone and nature of possible posts. But fear not, I will return to help you poor souls who have taken more ribbing than Adam for being alone with no mate to show for it, except for that 13 year old kid in Australia you play Red Dead Redemption with online.

Till then,

Orthonorm

I don't mean to undo the jovial tone of this thread but, in the spirit of this post, can we please remember that loneliness of this kind is a source of intense psychic and spiritual pain for many people? Others struggle with all sorts of other life issues/disabilities/disadvantages which contribute to them being unable to remedy that pain as easily as someone possessing different gifts might (am I being too oblique?).

May the fast bring great healing to all of us.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on July 31, 2011, 08:28:30 PM
Dear Readers,

I will not be posting in this thread during the fast due the tone and nature of possible posts. But fear not, I will return to help you poor souls who have taken more ribbing than Adam for being alone with no mate to show for it, except for that 13 year old kid in Australia you play Red Dead Redemption with online.

Till then,

Orthonorm

I don't mean to undo the jovial tone of this thread but, in the spirit of this post, can we please remember that loneliness of this kind is a source of intense psychic and spiritual pain for many people? Others struggle with all sorts of other life issues/disabilities/disadvantages which contribute to them being unable to remedy that pain as easily as someone possessing different gifts might (am I being too oblique?).

May the fast bring great healing to all of us.

Well said. For everything there is a season. Except you all who are always experiencing a drought.

Sorry. I can't help myself. //:=)

Again in sincerity. Well said.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on July 31, 2011, 08:34:19 PM
Tell a smart girl she is pretty and a pretty girl she is smart.


If that smart girl really is smart you might have to sleep with her to prove it but that's besides the point. ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on July 31, 2011, 08:41:41 PM
Question #1: Where can I find a girl who is freaky but doesn't have any STDs? (seriously)

For those who might have been shocked by his usage, it should be understood that, by 'STDs', our brother was referring to 'Serious Theological Deficiencies'. Right, Asteriktos?

Many years,

Neil

Of course. What else would STD mean?  ???  Also, when I say that I'm "D&D free," I mean of course that I don't play dungeons and dragons.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on July 31, 2011, 08:46:37 PM
Question #1: Where can I find a girl who is freaky but doesn't have any STDs? (seriously)

For those who might have been shocked by his usage, it should be understood that, by 'STDs', our brother was referring to 'Serious Theological Deficiencies'. Right, Asteriktos?

Many years,

Neil

Of course. What else would STD mean?  ???  Also, when I say that I'm "D&D free," I mean of course that I don't play dungeons and dragons.
Just roll the dice baby you never know what you may get.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Severian on July 31, 2011, 08:56:37 PM
I love this thread. Great job Orthonorm!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Severian on July 31, 2011, 09:13:03 PM
Orthonorm, I have been having tons of problems finding a girl recently.  I found this nice one at the mall the other day, and after watching her with her friends for three hours I felt like we were a perfect match.  I went up to her and told her that if she married me I had a nice kitchen and would be willing to give her father up to three goats.  As I sat in the mall security office all I could think about was how much her rejection hurt me.  I mean, I really can't afford four goats, but the kitchen is nice, I even showed her pictures of it.  What am I doing wrong?
This could very well be the post of the year!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Luke on July 31, 2011, 10:42:01 PM
Come on, guys, orthonorm's thread might be a bunch of malarkey on its own. We need proof.

We should have a single female member volunteer to go on a date with orthonorm (Orthodox approved!), return, and report to a council of 5 women. Once we approve, only then will he be permitted to carry on with his advice column. Report to a council of 5 women?  Perhaps he should do himself in now before the real suffering begins.

If there are any volunteers, please PM me. Women only..

Thanks --
IsmiLiora
Report to a council of 5 women?  Perhaps Orthonorm should do himself in now before the real suffering begins.  :police:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 31, 2011, 10:57:38 PM
Hey, we are fair, but then again, we always think we are right.  :P


ETA: Orthonorm might get a bye if he has actually used that casanova line in real life. That is smooooooth. I seriously LOLed.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on July 31, 2011, 11:02:32 PM
Hey, we are fair, but then again, we always think we are right.  :P


ETA: Orthonorm might get a bye if he has actually used that casanova line in real life. That is smooooooth. I seriously LOLed.

The problem with a line like this is it presupposes the intelligence of she on the receiving end.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 31, 2011, 11:10:50 PM
Perhaps I am taking for granted that the lovely lady in question might know what a casanova is! But seriously, I first learned the term from my Archie & Friends comic books many many years ago. Not exactly from a bodice ripper or a "How to Seduce" book.


And in my opinion, but this is just me, but lines only work once you know she's attracted to you. They make me laugh and I usually give the guys points for cleverness, but if the guy says them with a straight face (and has an orange tan and spiky hair), I'd move on in .00001 seconds.

But then again, it's not that easy to cultivate a relationship. There is a lot of attention that should be given, good listening skills are needed, and you need to stalk her. I mean, really, really stalk her.  :angel:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on July 31, 2011, 11:15:10 PM
Oh we will get to all this . . .

Liora is correct. But I have a method here folks.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on July 31, 2011, 11:52:00 PM
It's amazing what can be accomplished by listening.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Irish_Melkite on August 01, 2011, 12:38:54 PM

But then again, it's not that easy to cultivate a relationship. There is a lot of attention that should be given, good listening skills are needed, and you need to stalk her. I mean, really, really stalk her.  :angel:

Stalking a woman these days gets you a restraining order.  Are you out of your mind?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 01, 2011, 12:42:38 PM
Of course. What else would STD mean?  ???  Also, when I say that I'm "D&D free," I mean of course that I don't play dungeons and dragons.
Just roll the dice baby you never know what you may get.

Are you talking about the game, or... er... nevermind  :angel:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 01, 2011, 12:44:59 PM
Surely you know that I jest.

I have some advice, perhaps a short anecdote about Mr. Ismi and I (for those males who want to date and marry crazy, feminist, Christian women) but I dare not venture on Mr. Casanova's turf, except to throw off a few snarky lines here and there.  ;) Carry on!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on August 01, 2011, 12:46:58 PM

There is a lot of attention that should be given, good listening skills are needed, and you need to stalk her. I mean, really, really stalk her.  :angel:

If God had intended for men to listen to women, he would have put loudspeakers on their chest.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on August 01, 2011, 01:09:54 PM
Quote
If God had intended for men to listen to women, he would have put loudspeakers on their chest

*applauds*

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Schultz on August 01, 2011, 01:13:41 PM
This is the best thread ever on here.  Thank you. 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Andrew Crook on August 01, 2011, 10:48:52 PM
Dear Readers,

I will not be posting in this thread during the fast due the tone and nature of possible posts. But fear not, I will return to help you poor souls who have taken more ribbing than Adam for being alone with no mate to show for it, except for that 13 year old kid in Australia you play Red Dead Redemption with online.

Till then,

Orthonorm

I don't mean to undo the jovial tone of this thread but, in the spirit of this post, can we please remember that loneliness of this kind is a source of intense psychic and spiritual pain for many people? Others struggle with all sorts of other life issues/disabilities/disadvantages which contribute to them being unable to remedy that pain as easily as someone possessing different gifts might (am I being too oblique?).

May the fast bring great healing to all of us.

On a more serious note, I used to have that problem.  With being lonely all the time, perhaps to some extent I still do.  I am so much of a "perfectionist" at everything, and I would somehow decide to develop "feelings" for girls before I ever even got to know them as people.  Perhaps all I had a "crush" over was a graven image I formed in my mind, but not who any of these girls really were. 

  The great majority of the females I would usually decide that I liked, never really reciprocated those feelings for various reasons.  I had always had issues with self-esteem growing up, so I guess overtime I've just given up on even wanting to talk and get to know women.  I suppose a part of me already seriously believes that it's destined to fail no matter what I do, so perhaps I should just go and become a monk or something..

  Yet in spite of all of this, it seems that when you deal with self esteem issues -- your spiritual life becomes increased.  You start to develop a faith and trust in God to pull you out of your own internal struggles.. but I could never trust him when it came to girls.  For some reason my spiritual nature would rather run away from this world and everything in it because it's too "painful", and the only source of everlasting comfort is with God and the angels and the saints. 

So why should anyone feel lonely anyways?  We have angels, and saints -- and we have icons to remind us of that.  We have prayer, and fasting.. and we have confession for everytime we fail and offend our Creator.  Somehow I end up offending him every day, but oh well.. 

These are just my rambling thoughts on the subject of "relationships" with the opposite sex; and why I seem to have given up on them. 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on August 01, 2011, 11:00:01 PM
Moderators, maybe we could have a new thread so as to avoid dragging this one down?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on August 02, 2011, 12:10:02 AM
Dear Readers,

I will not be posting in this thread during the fast due the tone and nature of possible posts. But fear not, I will return to help you poor souls who have taken more ribbing than Adam for being alone with no mate to show for it, except for that 13 year old kid in Australia you play Red Dead Redemption with online.

Till then,

Orthonorm

I don't mean to undo the jovial tone of this thread but, in the spirit of this post, can we please remember that loneliness of this kind is a source of intense psychic and spiritual pain for many people? Others struggle with all sorts of other life issues/disabilities/disadvantages which contribute to them being unable to remedy that pain as easily as someone possessing different gifts might (am I being too oblique?).

May the fast bring great healing to all of us.

Some of us make a mockery of the issue to remedy the pain.   ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Jonathan Gress on August 02, 2011, 06:35:09 AM
Dear Readers,

I will not be posting in this thread during the fast due the tone and nature of possible posts. But fear not, I will return to help you poor souls who have taken more ribbing than Adam for being alone with no mate to show for it, except for that 13 year old kid in Australia you play Red Dead Redemption with online.

Till then,

Orthonorm

I don't mean to undo the jovial tone of this thread but, in the spirit of this post, can we please remember that loneliness of this kind is a source of intense psychic and spiritual pain for many people? Others struggle with all sorts of other life issues/disabilities/disadvantages which contribute to them being unable to remedy that pain as easily as someone possessing different gifts might (am I being too oblique?).

May the fast bring great healing to all of us.

Some of us make a mockery of the issue to remedy the pain.   ;)

Others of us just like to mock. ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on August 02, 2011, 07:40:47 AM
Moderators, maybe we could have a new thread so as to avoid dragging this one down?

Or contrarywise not to mix somewhat serious playfulness, with serious painfulness as to seem "mocking" those who wish to sincerely and seriously tell their stories and problems.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Irish_Melkite on August 02, 2011, 09:21:19 AM
Surely you know that I jest.

I have some advice, perhaps a short anecdote about Mr. Ismi and I (for those males who want to date and marry crazy, feminist, Christian women) but I dare not venture on Mr. Casanova's turf, except to throw off a few snarky lines here and there.  ;) Carry on!

Never marry a feminist of any brand, unless you want to be doing heavy penance and be very miserable for the rest of your life......
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 02, 2011, 09:25:56 AM
Surely you know that I jest.

I have some advice, perhaps a short anecdote about Mr. Ismi and I (for those males who want to date and marry crazy, feminist, Christian women) but I dare not venture on Mr. Casanova's turf, except to throw off a few snarky lines here and there.  ;) Carry on!

Never marry a feminist of any brand, unless you want to be doing heavy penance and be very miserable for the rest of your life......
Hey, you know what? It's good to mention that you can't handle the heat up front. Make sure to mention that on your first date because gals like to have the ability to talk back and have their voices heard in a relationship! So shocking, but there it is.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 02, 2011, 09:30:11 AM
Surely you know that I jest.

I have some advice, perhaps a short anecdote about Mr. Ismi and I (for those males who want to date and marry crazy, feminist, Christian women) but I dare not venture on Mr. Casanova's turf, except to throw off a few snarky lines here and there.  ;) Carry on!

Never marry a feminist of any brand, unless you want to be doing heavy penance and be very miserable for the rest of your life......
Hey, you know what? It's good to mention that you can't handle the heat up front. Make sure to mention that on your first date because gals like to have the ability to talk back and have their voices heard in a relationship! So shocking, but there it is.

Women like to talk? I had no idea!  :o
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Irish_Melkite on August 02, 2011, 09:31:10 AM
Surely you know that I jest.

I have some advice, perhaps a short anecdote about Mr. Ismi and I (for those males who want to date and marry crazy, feminist, Christian women) but I dare not venture on Mr. Casanova's turf, except to throw off a few snarky lines here and there.  ;) Carry on!

Never marry a feminist of any brand, unless you want to be doing heavy penance and be very miserable for the rest of your life......
Hey, you know what? It's good to mention that you can't handle the heat up front. Make sure to mention that on your first date because gals like to have the ability to talk back and have their voices heard in a relationship! So shocking, but there it is.

I've read feminist literature by hard feminists.  The "equality" bit is a smokescreen.  The TRUE FACE of feminism is to destroy family life and dominate men.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Schultz on August 02, 2011, 09:31:56 AM
Surely you know that I jest.

I have some advice, perhaps a short anecdote about Mr. Ismi and I (for those males who want to date and marry crazy, feminist, Christian women) but I dare not venture on Mr. Casanova's turf, except to throw off a few snarky lines here and there.  ;) Carry on!

Never marry a feminist of any brand, unless you want to be doing heavy penance and be very miserable for the rest of your life......
Hey, you know what? It's good to mention that you can't handle the heat up front. Make sure to mention that on your first date because gals like to have the ability to talk back and have their voices heard in a relationship! So shocking, but there it is.

Women like to talk? I had no idea!  :o

It's news to me, too! ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 02, 2011, 09:36:36 AM
Surely you know that I jest.

I have some advice, perhaps a short anecdote about Mr. Ismi and I (for those males who want to date and marry crazy, feminist, Christian women) but I dare not venture on Mr. Casanova's turf, except to throw off a few snarky lines here and there.  ;) Carry on!

Never marry a feminist of any brand, unless you want to be doing heavy penance and be very miserable for the rest of your life......
Hey, you know what? It's good to mention that you can't handle the heat up front. Make sure to mention that on your first date because gals like to have the ability to talk back and have their voices heard in a relationship! So shocking, but there it is.

I've read feminist literature by hard feminists.  The "equality" bit is a smokescreen.  The TRUE FACE of feminism is to destroy family life and dominate men.
Well you know that, much like Christians, there are a very broad range of women who identify as feminist, right?

Last word on the subject. I don't want to really de-rail this thread into a "All women who support other women are feminazis!" discussion.

Men, you are going to have to at least put up (or learn how to look like you're listening) with our sometimes idle, mostly valuable chatter if you want a relationship to succeed.  :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 02, 2011, 09:52:56 AM
Men, you are going to have to at least put up (or learn how to look like you're listening) with our sometimes idle, mostly valuable chatter if you want a relationship to succeed.  :P

Interestingly, one reason I like female therapists is that they're willing to sit and listen. Male therapists just talk too much: they think they can identify all your problems, formulate brilliant solutions in seconds, and then spend the next 47 sessions talking you through how to implement their full-proof solutions. Guys are so annoying, amirite?  ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 02, 2011, 09:55:45 AM
By nature, men are fixer-uppers (I don't like stereotyping, but this one is true in almost every man I've met).

Which is great, unless we happen to be crying at the moment.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on August 02, 2011, 10:48:46 AM
Which is great, unless we happen to be crying at the moment.  :laugh:

If you had told me this about three years ago my life would have been much less complicated. 

For the record, guys, when the woman is crying she does not want rational solutions to her problems, she wants to vent.  If you are lucky and she called you whilst crying this is a good opportunity to keep up on personal hygiene, check the forum, or file your taxes.  Because all you really need to say is, "Yes...uh huh...I'm sorry".  Anything more and you are being "patronizing".  If she is actually there in person you can use the same words above, just you will need to appear focused.  If you are the reason she is crying...feign death.  It works 35% of the time.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: jah777 on August 02, 2011, 11:04:42 AM
I've read feminist literature by hard feminists.  The "equality" bit is a smokescreen.  The TRUE FACE of feminism is to destroy family life and dominate men.

REAL feminists appear more manly than most men, and so are only attractive to homosexuals.  "Feminism" should really be renamed "Feminomachism", as the movement does not exalt the unique natural gifts, blessings, and uniqueness of womanhood but rather seeks to obliterate womanhood and motherhood in favor of creating the new and improved feMAN for a new and improved universe that is without children, without parenting, without love, and without beauty.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on August 02, 2011, 11:06:58 AM
Which is great, unless we happen to be crying at the moment.  :laugh:

If you had told me this about three years ago my life would have been much less complicated. 

For the record, guys, when the woman is crying she does not want rational solutions to her problems, she wants to vent she wants you to be miserable, too.
 

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on August 02, 2011, 11:10:14 AM
I've read feminist literature by hard feminists.  The "equality" bit is a smokescreen.  The TRUE FACE of feminism is to destroy family life and dominate men.

REAL feminists appear more manly than most men, and so are only attractive to homosexuals.  "Feminism" should really be renamed "Feminomachism", as the movement does not exalt the unique natural gifts, blessings, and uniqueness of womanhood but rather seeks to obliterate womanhood and motherhood in favor of creating the new and improved feMAN for a new and improved universe that is without children, without parenting, without love, and without beauty.

Feminism is nothing other than a modern name for penis envy.  And IsmiLiora is correct, there are degrees within the disorder.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Jonathan Gress on August 02, 2011, 11:12:45 AM
For the record, IsmiLiora is actually right about the crying. Keep your mouth shut and offer her your shoulder. It's amazing when you learn this is how it works, since it takes the whole burden off of actually having to deal with her problem. :D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Irish_Melkite on August 02, 2011, 11:30:28 AM
I've read feminist literature by hard feminists.  The "equality" bit is a smokescreen.  The TRUE FACE of feminism is to destroy family life and dominate men.

REAL feminists appear more manly than most men, and so are only attractive to homosexuals.  "Feminism" should really be renamed "Feminomachism", as the movement does not exalt the unique natural gifts, blessings, and uniqueness of womanhood but rather seeks to obliterate womanhood and motherhood in favor of creating the new and improved feMAN for a new and improved universe that is without children, without parenting, without love, and without beauty.

I disagree.  Feminism teaches women to be selfish, a la Tyra, Oprah and other TV whackos.   I know of a lot of die hard feminists here in the DC area who are darned good looking cojone-busters.  Anyone here not heard of the book called, "The Rules"?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on August 02, 2011, 12:49:52 PM
For the record, IsmiLiora is actually right about the crying. Keep your mouth shut and offer her your shoulder. It's amazing when you learn this is how it works, since it takes the whole burden off of actually having to deal with her problem. :D

The problem will have to be dealt with eventually, so no burden has been removed, only put off to a later date.  IsmiLiora is also correct about most men being fixers.  To add to that, they are also literal.  If we ask "what is the problem" and you say "nothing", then there is nothing wrong . . . period.  That is how it works, deal with it.  Otherwise, learn not to lie to us.  If we ask "what is wrong" and you respond with "I just need someone to talk to / vent to / to listen to me, you will be amazed at how many of us will take the time to do so, because to us, that IS solving the problem. 

The women that I respect the most are the ones that are direct and let you know what they want.  And they don't have to be radical feminists to do so.  I have no use for the "complex" type that like to play mind games and try to have me guess at what they want.  There are too many people out there with needs for me to take the time to play stupid mind games.  I spend a lot of my time dealing with people's problems as part of my job, and a large portion of them are women.  The time I spend "decoding" some emo's problems is time that could be spent helping someone else.  Thankfully, most of the women that I deal with have learned to be direct and up front.  I don't judge, and I don't consider anyone's problem to be stupid or trivial.  They are the most important thing that particular person has to deal with at the moment.  But I can't (and probably won't) help you if all you want to do is play games and get attention. 

I have found that many "attention whores" are small minded and selfish people who's "problems" would go away if they got over themselves and spent as much time trying to help others as they spend feeling sorry for themselves.  Then there are those with real problems (and loneliness is a very real problem).  Those are the ones who need the help and need the time and attention, often a lot of time and attention.  To me, it is time well spent.  Nothing hurts my heart more than to see a kind person who gives of themselves to others yet receives nothing in return.  I really hope that the All-merciful God has a special place in heaven for these people because they have suffered enough here on Earth.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Jonathan Gress on August 02, 2011, 12:53:36 PM
For the record, IsmiLiora is actually right about the crying. Keep your mouth shut and offer her your shoulder. It's amazing when you learn this is how it works, since it takes the whole burden off of actually having to deal with her problem. :D

The problem will have to be dealt with eventually, so no burden has been removed, only put off to a later date.  IsmiLiora is also correct about most men being fixers.  To add to that, they are also literal.  If we ask "what is the problem" and you say "nothing", then there is nothing wrong . . . period.  That is how it works, deal with it.  Otherwise, learn not to lie to us.  If we ask "what is wrong" and you respond with "I just need someone to talk to / vent to / to listen to me, you will be amazed at how many of us will take the time to do so, because to us, that IS solving the problem. 

The women that I respect the most are the ones that are direct and let you know what they want.  And they don't have to be radical feminists to do so.  I have no use for the "complex" type that like to play mind games and try to have me guess at what they want.  There are too many people out there with needs for me to take the time to play stupid mind games.  I spend a lot of my time dealing with people's problems as part of my job, and a large portion of them are women.  The time I spend "decoding" some emo's problems is time that could be spent helping someone else.  Thankfully, most of the women that I deal with have learned to be direct and up front.  I don't judge, and I don't consider anyone's problem to be stupid or trivial.  They are the most important thing that particular person has to deal with at the moment.  But I can't (and probably won't) help you if all you want to do is play games and get attention. 

I have found that many "attention whores" are small minded and selfish people who's "problems" would go away if they got over themselves and spent as much time trying to help others as they spend feeling sorry for themselves.  Then there are those with real problems (and loneliness is a very real problem).  Those are the ones who need the help and need the time and attention, often a lot of time and attention.  To me, it is time well spent.  Nothing hurts my heart more than to see a kind person who gives of themselves to others yet receives nothing in return.  I really hope that the All-merciful God has a special place in heaven for these people because they have suffered enough here on Earth.

Whoa.  :o
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on August 02, 2011, 01:34:26 PM
Was it Albert Ellis who said:

"There are just two rules when a husband and wife disagree or quarrel:

1. The wife is right.
2. The sooner the husband recognizes (1), the better."
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Andrew Crook on August 02, 2011, 01:38:00 PM
will someone delete my previous post or move it somewhere for more of a serious chat..?  Perhaps the Free-for-All..? I'm not sure, oh well.  I forgot that "Other Topics" was a place for silliness  :P :) @ moderator(s)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on August 02, 2011, 01:56:05 PM
will someone delete my previous post or move it somewhere for more of a serious chat..?  Perhaps the Free-for-All..? I'm not sure, oh well.  I forgot that "Other Topics" was a place for silliness  :P :) @ moderator(s)

No.  Your statement has entered the ring and must now fight for it's life.  Two go in, one comes out!  Break a deal, face the wheel!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TheodoraElizabeth3 on August 02, 2011, 01:59:22 PM
About the "feminist" thing:

I've found that some folks (men AND women) like to throw around the "feminist" label just because a woman doesn't fit their mental image of how a woman should behave/look.

Just because a woman has short hair (my hair is unmanageable when long), speaks her mind/is rather direct, is well-read, and holds leadership positions - well, that doesn't mean she's a feminist. I'm very conservative, but the people who try to stick the "feminist" label to me don't bother to look beyond the short hair and my mouth. I've also been called a "feminist" because I'm in my early 40s and never married. It doesn't occur to them that I've not met the right guy. I had one guy (Eastern European immigrant, very, very old-school mindset) call me a "feminist" for being the head of my parish's sisterhood!

To some people, short hair automatically equals lesbian. For heaven's sake, people! ::)

And just because I've gotten my college degree and been able to support myself for more than the last 15 years and didn't roll over and play dead because I didn't find a husband - well, I'm practical. Should I have mooched off my parents instead of supporting myself?

<rant>


One of my pet peeves...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on August 02, 2011, 02:12:56 PM
Was it Albert Ellis who said:

"There are just two rules when a husband and wife disagree or quarrel:

1. The wife is right.
2. The sooner the husband recognizes (1), the better."

He had serial marriages and was a notorious philanderer.

Based on these posts I am reading, boy, do I have my work cut out for me, when the Fast ends . . .
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 02, 2011, 02:14:25 PM
[Sorry, orthonorm. I really tried. Maybe a mod can split this thread?]

And not to compare myself to your looks or status, but all I had to do was use the word "feminist" and it suddenly drew comparisons of certain women and stereotypes.

I'm married with a husband that doesn't consider himself feminist but listens to my views and enjoys debating with me, I am fascinated with the beauty industry and have considered becoming a freelance makeup artist, my hair is long (just working with stereotypes here, nothing wrong either way). I wear dresses and skirts all of the time, and dabble in reading about fashion history. I consider myself a fairly conservative Christian. I'm personally pro-life, I don't believe in affirmative action policies, etc.

Now, how many of the men were picturing that? Honestly. And even if a woman is their "picture" of a feminist, physically, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that either. I'm just pointing out that even saying the word "feminist" probably sounds like Rush Limbaugh's voice in your heads, and conjures up images of Janet Napolitano and Hillary Clinton. Which is completely expected, in my opinion.

There are different ways of approaching feminism and women's studies, and while most feminists would laugh me out of the room for considering myself one, there you are. I've stopped worrying about what they think.

And I don't need men patronizing me and telling me that they don't want a feminist but a straightforward, non-complex gal. You know what? Good luck finding one. You'll find a lot of straight shooters who also can be introspective and whose feelings and opinions may change in certain situations. We're not one dimensional, thank God. That's one of the wonderful things about being a woman. Men should balance us out and we should balance them out. (ETA: I am talking about general characteristics, which will definitely differ depending on the individual)

PS: I am refusing to debate on any politics that arise from my "feminist" beliefs on this thread and I am only posting in general. PM me if you must discuss this further.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on August 02, 2011, 02:41:42 PM
Was it Albert Ellis who said:

"There are just two rules when a husband and wife disagree or quarrel:

1. The wife is right.
2. The sooner the husband recognizes (1), the better."

He had serial marriages and was a notorious philanderer.

Based on these posts I am reading, boy, do I have my work cut out for me, when the Fast ends . . .

Don't worry boys and girls, Vamrat is an Old Calendarist, so I will keep up lessons while Orthonorm is away.

Feel free to ask any questions you have on the miracle of dating and I will answer them honestly and to the best of my ability.  Then you can pretty much ignore my advice and you will be on the right track!

Lesson I: If her father has a shotgun, what should you do?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 02, 2011, 02:48:35 PM
By nature, men are fixer-uppers (I don't like stereotyping, but this one is true in almost every man I've met).

Which is great, unless we happen to be crying at the moment.  :laugh:
But it's a leak!

You fix leaks.  :police:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on August 02, 2011, 02:52:33 PM
About the "feminist" thing:

I've found that some folks (men AND women) like to throw around the "feminist" label just because a woman doesn't fit their mental image of how a woman should behave/look.

Just because a woman has short hair (my hair is unmanageable when long), speaks her mind/is rather direct, is well-read, and holds leadership positions - well, that doesn't mean she's a feminist. I'm very conservative, but the people who try to stick the "feminist" label to me don't bother to look beyond the short hair and my mouth. I've also been called a "feminist" because I'm in my early 40s and never married. It doesn't occur to them that I've not met the right guy. I had one guy (Eastern European immigrant, very, very old-school mindset) call me a "feminist" for being the head of my parish's sisterhood!

To some people, short hair automatically equals lesbian. For heaven's sake, people! ::)

And just because I've gotten my college degree and been able to support myself for more than the last 15 years and didn't roll over and play dead because I didn't find a husband - well, I'm practical. Should I have mooched off my parents instead of supporting myself?

<rant>


One of my pet peeves...

One man's feminist is another man's marriage prospect...

Short Hair - Personal taste, really, and I for one leave this up to the person who has to have the hair.
Direct Speaking - Thank God
Well Read - +1
Educated - +2
Leadership Positions - Someone has to do it, eh?
Conservative - By definition you are not a Femifascist

Keep your chin up, haters gonna hate.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 02, 2011, 03:09:51 PM
^^ Exactly! ;D

And NicholasMyra, you guys don't just want to put a plug into the leak. I'm crying and you all are putting out the choices of the 3 pipe replacement options that are available. ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 02, 2011, 03:21:08 PM
Gloria: [in bed] Honey? My mouth is dry. Honey. I'm thirsty.

Billy: Umm... [gets some water] ... There you go, honey.

Gloria: When I said I was thirsty, it doesn't mean I want a glass of water.

Billy: It doesn't?
  
Gloria: You're missing the whole point of me saying I'm thirsty. If I have a problem you're not supposed to solve it. Men always make the mistake of thinking they can solve a woman's problem. It makes them feel omnipotent.

Billy: Omnipotent? Did you have a bad dream?
  
Gloria: It's a way of controlling a woman.

Billy: Bringing them a glass of water?

Gloria: Yes. I read it in a magazine. See, if I'm thirsty, I don't want a glass of water. I want you to sympathize. I want you to say: ''Gloria, I, too, know what it feels like to be thirsty. I, too, have had a dry mouth." I want you to connect with me through sharing and understanding the concept of dry mouthedness.  
                  
Billy: This is all in the same magazine?

Gloria: You're into control.

Billy: Shut up.

Gloria: See? You make me sick. [turns over in bed]
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 02, 2011, 03:34:23 PM
^^ Exactly! ;D

And NicholasMyra, you guys don't just want to put a plug into the leak. I'm crying and you all are putting out the choices of the 3 pipe replacement options that are available. ;)
Oh, no. Putting the choices out there is limp-wristed flip-flopping; a sad consequence of the 21st century man's ethos, what with his hipster scarves and his scented body washes.

No, a real man breaks out the trowel and lays on that pipe sealer therapy appointment with bountiful, excessive Van-Gough strokes.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on August 03, 2011, 10:56:21 AM
About the "feminist" thing:

Just because a woman has short hair (my hair is unmanageable when long), speaks her mind/is rather direct, is well-read, and holds leadership positions - well, that doesn't mean she's a feminist. I'm very conservative, but the people who try to stick the "feminist" label to me don't bother to look beyond the short hair and my mouth. I've also been called a "feminist" because I'm in my early 40s and never married. It doesn't occur to them that I've not met the right guy. I had one guy (Eastern European immigrant, very, very old-school mindset) call me a "feminist" for being the head of my parish's sisterhood!

To some people, short hair automatically equals lesbian. For heaven's sake, people! ::)

And just because I've gotten my college degree and been able to support myself for more than the last 15 years and didn't roll over and play dead because I didn't find a husband - well, I'm practical. Should I have mooched off my parents instead of supporting myself?


Agree.   Feminism is an attitude, not a hairstyle. 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on August 03, 2011, 11:00:04 AM
^^ Exactly! ;D

And NicholasMyra, you guys don't just want to put a plug into the leak. I'm crying and you all are putting out the choices of the 3 pipe replacement options that are available. ;)

As a Maintenance Planner in a Nuclear Power Plant for 10 years, and a Failure Analyst in Engineering in the same plant for 12 previous years, I can assure you that plugging a leaking pipe is only a temporary fix.  When a pipe keeps leaking over and over again, it really needs to be replaced.  And if you replace it the first time it leaks, it saves a lot of work in the future, since most pipe leaks tend to damage a lot of equipment in the area of the leak.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 03, 2011, 03:23:54 PM
Question #2: I was walking down the street today and a woman said to me "Hey hun, you lookin for a good time?" She looked like she was sick and hadn't ate a good meal in months; she wasn't much of a looker either. On the other hand, I have to admit that I am looking for a good time. Like maybe some bowling, or even a leisurely night playing canasta. What should I do? Should I go find her and ask her to join me?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on August 03, 2011, 04:04:31 PM
Question #2: I was walking down the street today and a woman said to me "Hey hun, you lookin for a good time?" She looked like she was sick and hadn't ate a good meal in months; she wasn't much of a looker either. On the other hand, I have to admit that I am looking for a good time. Like maybe some bowling, or even a leisurely night playing canasta. What should I do? Should I go find her and ask her to join me?

Go for it.  You see, she is likely the sort who will do anything you ask her to do for the right amount of compensation, and would not ask any questions.  One caveat, you should really check her mouth first.  If she has all her teeth she is most likely a police officer, and I don't think you telling them that you were only interested in bowling or canasta would fly, even if that was your actual intent, and I am sure it is!    :D

Happy to help as always,

Dr. Vamrat.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on August 03, 2011, 07:38:35 PM
Question #2: I was walking down the street today and a woman said to me "Hey hun, you lookin for a good time?" She looked like she was sick and hadn't ate a good meal in months; she wasn't much of a looker either. On the other hand, I have to admit that I am looking for a good time. Like maybe some bowling, or even a leisurely night playing canasta. What should I do? Should I go find her and ask her to join me?

I feel for these people.  I would tell her "here, take this 20 and get something to eat".  That would make me feel much better than I would feel trying to nurse a case of ghonaherpasyphilitis with a little Hepatitis A through Z thrown in.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TheodoraElizabeth3 on August 03, 2011, 10:42:17 PM
About the "feminist" thing:

I've found that some folks (men AND women) like to throw around the "feminist" label just because a woman doesn't fit their mental image of how a woman should behave/look.

Just because a woman has short hair (my hair is unmanageable when long), speaks her mind/is rather direct, is well-read, and holds leadership positions - well, that doesn't mean she's a feminist. I'm very conservative, but the people who try to stick the "feminist" label to me don't bother to look beyond the short hair and my mouth. I've also been called a "feminist" because I'm in my early 40s and never married. It doesn't occur to them that I've not met the right guy. I had one guy (Eastern European immigrant, very, very old-school mindset) call me a "feminist" for being the head of my parish's sisterhood!

To some people, short hair automatically equals lesbian. For heaven's sake, people! ::)

And just because I've gotten my college degree and been able to support myself for more than the last 15 years and didn't roll over and play dead because I didn't find a husband - well, I'm practical. Should I have mooched off my parents instead of supporting myself?

<rant>


One of my pet peeves...

One man's feminist is another man's marriage prospect...

Short Hair - Personal taste, really, and I for one leave this up to the person who has to have the hair.
Direct Speaking - Thank God
Well Read - +1
Educated - +2
Leadership Positions - Someone has to do it, eh?
Conservative - By definition you are not a Femifascist

Keep your chin up, haters gonna hate.

Leadership positions: yes, SOMEONE has to do it, and well, a combo of my mouth and having organizational ability tends to get one thrust into leadership positions. ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 10, 2011, 01:21:54 PM
Question #3: There is an adult book store in my town, and I've been thinking about stopping in. I thought that perhaps if I bought some books there I could learn how to class things up a bit and treat a woman better. I would prefer more academic books, not those self-help kind, but I'm not sure where to start. Can you suggest some authors--preferrably people with college education in the field, but who also have real life experience--that I will probably find in my local store? Thanks!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 11, 2011, 03:11:37 PM
Question #4: I finally got a response from this online dating service I found, fetfriends.com, but I'm a bit confused and want your advice. This woman asked me a bunch of questions, and I don't know how to respond. First she asked me what my hard limits are. I haven't really messed with computers for years, what software/application do you think she is asking about? Second she asked me if I had ever been collared, which is really strange! I mean, I went to a party dressed as a dog one halloween, but how did she know that? Third she asked if I liked water sports, which I do, but since neither of us are near the ocean, or even a large lake, I don't get why she would ask that. And finally she said she was a switch. I think it was a typo and she meant witch. I don't really want to date a witch though. What do I do?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 11, 2011, 03:31:50 PM
...why.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on August 11, 2011, 03:35:38 PM
Question #4: I finally got a response from this online dating service I found, fetfriends.com, but I'm a bit confused and want your advice. This woman asked me a bunch of questions, and I don't know how to respond. First she asked me what my hard limits are. I haven't really messed with computers for years, what software/application do you think she is asking about? Second she asked me if I had ever been collared, which is really strange! I mean, I went to a party dressed as a dog one halloween, but how did she know that? Third she asked if I liked water sports, which I do, but since neither of us are near the ocean, or even a large lake, I don't get why she would ask that. And finally she said she was a switch. I think it was a typo and she meant witch. I don't really want to date a witch though. What do I do?

Why are you messing with her if you don't know what she is saying?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on August 11, 2011, 03:37:02 PM
Why are you messing with her if you don't know what she is saying?
......................................__................................................
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...................*,.........`-,...)-,..............,-*`...,-*....(`-,............\.......
......................f`-,.........`-,/...*-,___,,-~*....,-*......|...`-,..........\........ 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 11, 2011, 03:37:30 PM
...why.

Why are you messing with her if you don't know what she is saying?

I don't know. The whole site is confusing. All the people have pictures on their profiles of themselves in various states of undress. Some are even nude! Suffice to say I have reported the nude photos to the administration, but since I obviously haven't gone back to those profiles I don't know if anything has been done about it. It's a very frustrating site.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on August 11, 2011, 03:42:42 PM
Question #4: I finally got a response from this online dating service I found, fetfriends.com, but I'm a bit confused and want your advice. This woman asked me a bunch of questions, and I don't know how to respond. First she asked me what my hard limits are. I haven't really messed with computers for years, what software/application do you think she is asking about? Second she asked me if I had ever been collared, which is really strange! I mean, I went to a party dressed as a dog one halloween, but how did she know that? Third she asked if I liked water sports, which I do, but since neither of us are near the ocean, or even a large lake, I don't get why she would ask that. And finally she said she was a switch. I think it was a typo and she meant witch. I don't really want to date a witch though. What do I do?

1 - Hard[ware...must have been a typo] limits are pretty much looking for the speed of your computer.  For example, my computer has an i5 processor (tri-core), 6mb of DDR3 RAM, etc.

2 - She is trying to make sure you are not a member of the clergy.  (Many Catholic priests wear those bizarre white things around their neck.  Some Protestants do as well.)  She seems like a very decent and upstanding person and wouldn't want to get involved with someone who is already married or is celibate.

3 - Hello?  You need to get out more.  All you need for water polo is a pool, some horses, and a ball.

4 - She probably means she's a "stitch" meaning she has a good sense of humour and will have you rofl'ing with laughter.

In the future, you should be careful to make sure that the women you are looking for are not witches.  Dating a witch will only get you burned...


I will get to Question #3 eventually.  But I am still trying to find someone who took the effort to get a degree in sex and also has real-world experience with someone other than themselves.  If I was the sort for shameless self-promotion I would direct you towards my book Don't Do It Like They Do On The Discovery Channel - Top 10 Reasons Why You Should Not Date A Woman Who Thinks She's A Preying Mantis, and Other Helpful Tips, by Dr. Vamrat.  Published by Paladin Press.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on August 11, 2011, 03:42:52 PM
Question #3: There is an adult book store in my town, and I've been thinking about stopping in. I thought that perhaps if I bought some books there I could learn how to class things up a bit and treat a woman better. I would prefer more academic books, not those self-help kind, but I'm not sure where to start. Can you suggest some authors--preferrably people with college education in the field, but who also have real life experience--that I will probably find in my local store? Thanks!

Can't think of one with college education. OTH, those with a college education and usually found at your local Barnes & Noble, are really not that good anyway. Just watch 2.5 Men and do the opposite of Charlie outside the bedroom and the same as Charlie inside. Or, you can listen to the Charlie Rich's Behind Close Doors, or to any of the hits of Conway Twitty--Slow Hands, may be?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on August 11, 2011, 03:44:13 PM
...why.

Why are you messing with her if you don't know what she is saying?

I don't know. The whole site is confusing. All the people have pictures on their profiles of themselves in various states of undress. Some are even nude! Suffice to say I have reported the nude photos to the administration, but since I obviously haven't gone back to those profiles I don't know if anything has been done about it. It's a very frustrating site.

I think I will play along after Monday.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Severian on August 11, 2011, 03:54:52 PM
Why are you messing with her if you don't know what she is saying?
......................................__................................................
.............................,-~*`¯lllllll`*~,..........................................
.......................,-~*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll¯`*-,....................................
..................,-~*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll*-,..................................
...............,-*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\.......................... .......
.............;*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~*~-,llllllllllllllllllll\................................
..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,......................... ..
...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-*...........`~-~-,...(.(¯`*,`,..........................
................\llllllllllll,-~*.....................)_-\..*`*;..)..........................
.................\,-*`¯,*`)............,-~*`~................/.....................
..................|/.../.../~,......-~*,-~*`;................/.\..................
................./.../.../.../..,-,..*~,.`*~*................*...\.................
................|.../.../.../.*`...\...........................)....)¯`~,..................
................|./.../..../.......)......,.)`*~-,............/....|..)...`~-,.............
..............././.../...,*`-,.....`-,...*`....,---......\..../...../..|.........¯```*~-,,,,
...............(..........)`*~-,....`*`.,-~*.,-*......|.../..../.../............\........
................*-,.......`*-,...`~,..``.,,,-*..........|.,*...,*...|..............\........
...................*,.........`-,...)-,..............,-*`...,-*....(`-,............\.......
......................f`-,.........`-,/...*-,___,,-~*....,-*......|...`-,..........\........ 
You're a very good artist!  8)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on August 12, 2011, 12:21:52 AM
Question #4: I finally got a response from this online dating service I found, fetfriends.com, but I'm a bit confused and want your advice. This woman asked me a bunch of questions, and I don't know how to respond. First she asked me what my hard limits are. I haven't really messed with computers for years, what software/application do you think she is asking about? Second she asked me if I had ever been collared, which is really strange! I mean, I went to a party dressed as a dog one halloween, but how did she know that? Third she asked if I liked water sports, which I do, but since neither of us are near the ocean, or even a large lake, I don't get why she would ask that. And finally she said she was a switch. I think it was a typo and she meant witch. I don't really want to date a witch though. What do I do?

1 - Hard[ware...must have been a typo] limits are pretty much looking for the speed of your computer.  For example, my computer has an i5 processor (tri-core), 6mb of DDR3 RAM, etc.

2 - She is trying to make sure you are not a member of the clergy.  (Many Catholic priests wear those bizarre white things around their neck.  Some Protestants do as well.)  She seems like a very decent and upstanding person and wouldn't want to get involved with someone who is already married or is celibate.

3 - Hello?  You need to get out more.  All you need for water polo is a pool, some horses, and a ball.

4 - She probably means she's a "stitch" meaning she has a good sense of humour and will have you rofl'ing with laughter.

In the future, you should be careful to make sure that the women you are looking for are not witches.  Dating a witch will only get you burned...


I will get to Question #3 eventually.  But I am still trying to find someone who took the effort to get a degree in sex and also has real-world experience with someone other than themselves.  If I was the sort for shameless self-promotion I would direct you towards my book Don't Do It Like They Do On The Discovery Channel - Top 10 Reasons Why You Should Not Date A Woman Who Thinks She's A Preying Mantis, and Other Helpful Tips, by Dr. Vamrat.  Published by Paladin Press.

You owe me a new laptop.  And also compensation for the pain and suffering of blowing hot coffee through my nose.  Remember, I know where you live!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ndigila on August 12, 2011, 04:07:32 AM
3 - Hello?  You need to get out more.  All you need for water polo is a pool, some horses, and a ball.
There's horses in Water Polo?  Wouldn't that be suicidal?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ma2000 on August 12, 2011, 04:48:17 AM
Question #4: I finally got a response from this online dating service I found, fetfriends.com, but I'm a bit confused and want your advice. This woman asked me a bunch of questions, and I don't know how to respond. First she asked me what my hard limits are. I haven't really messed with computers for years, what software/application do you think she is asking about? Second she asked me if I had ever been collared, which is really strange! I mean, I went to a party dressed as a dog one halloween, but how did she know that? Third she asked if I liked water sports, which I do, but since neither of us are near the ocean, or even a large lake, I don't get why she would ask that. And finally she said she was a switch. I think it was a typo and she meant witch. I don't really want to date a witch though. What do I do?

1) She's probably talking about your hard disk drive. You should be able to get more info in My Computer (if you are a Windows user).
2) She's talking about coats with high collar
3) She's inviting you to go to the seaside with her
4) She probably meant she has a hair switch
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 12, 2011, 10:13:33 AM
These answers have been most helpful! I am still interested in what the zen master orthonormo has to say though.  :police:

I also have an actual question (ie. my second legitimate question on the thread)...

Question #5: When a woman winks at you, does it always mean she's interested in a relationship?

I realise that I'm hardly movie star material in the looks department, but in the last year I've had some strange winks, one from a therapist, and one from a woman who appeared to be 12-15 years older than me.  Definitely "lol wut?" moments for me.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 12, 2011, 10:35:47 AM
and one from a woman who appeared to be 12-15 years older than me. 
Can't speak for orthonorm, but I would say that this firmly plants you in the MILF's target demographic.

They are sassy, usually wise, and know how to bake delicious baked goods.

My answer comes from experience from having older women constantly hit on my husband. I never have to bake anything!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Schultz on August 12, 2011, 10:38:32 AM
Why is it that women don't seem to mind it when an older woman hits on their significant other, but God forbid if some young lass flirts with the same.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 12, 2011, 11:05:45 AM
Why is it that women don't seem to mind it when an older woman hits on their significant other, but God forbid if some young lass flirts with the same.
That's actually a good question that I can't answer. Husband has actually dated older women, so you think I would be threatened. Some of them have been ridiculously brazen too, asking him out constantly when we were engaged.

But then again, he is more bothered when younger men hit on me, versus older men. And I have always preferred older men, so would that go for the men, too?

I guess they see them as less of a threat because of their age? Which isn't entirely fair.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on August 12, 2011, 11:19:58 AM
Question #4: I finally got a response from this online dating service I found, fetfriends.com, but I'm a bit confused and want your advice. This woman asked me a bunch of questions, and I don't know how to respond. First she asked me what my hard limits are. I haven't really messed with computers for years, what software/application do you think she is asking about? Second she asked me if I had ever been collared, which is really strange! I mean, I went to a party dressed as a dog one halloween, but how did she know that? Third she asked if I liked water sports, which I do, but since neither of us are near the ocean, or even a large lake, I don't get why she would ask that. And finally she said she was a switch. I think it was a typo and she meant witch. I don't really want to date a witch though. What do I do?

1 - Hard[ware...must have been a typo] limits are pretty much looking for the speed of your computer.  For example, my computer has an i5 processor (tri-core), 6mb of DDR3 RAM, etc.

2 - She is trying to make sure you are not a member of the clergy.  (Many Catholic priests wear those bizarre white things around their neck.  Some Protestants do as well.)  She seems like a very decent and upstanding person and wouldn't want to get involved with someone who is already married or is celibate.

3 - Hello?  You need to get out more.  All you need for water polo is a pool, some horses, and a ball.

4 - She probably means she's a "stitch" meaning she has a good sense of humour and will have you rofl'ing with laughter.

In the future, you should be careful to make sure that the women you are looking for are not witches.  Dating a witch will only get you burned...


I will get to Question #3 eventually.  But I am still trying to find someone who took the effort to get a degree in sex and also has real-world experience with someone other than themselves.  If I was the sort for shameless self-promotion I would direct you towards my book Don't Do It Like They Do On The Discovery Channel - Top 10 Reasons Why You Should Not Date A Woman Who Thinks She's A Preying Mantis, and Other Helpful Tips, by Dr. Vamrat.  Published by Paladin Press.

You owe me a new laptop.  And also compensation for the pain and suffering of blowing hot coffee through my nose.  Remember, I know where you live!

You can have my old one, if you can figure out how to load a new OS on it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Schultz on August 12, 2011, 11:25:32 AM
Why is it that women don't seem to mind it when an older woman hits on their significant other, but God forbid if some young lass flirts with the same.
That's actually a good question that I can't answer. Husband has actually dated older women, so you think I would be threatened. Some of them have been ridiculously brazen too, asking him out constantly when we were engaged.

But then again, he is more bothered when younger men hit on me, versus older men. And I have always preferred older men, so would that go for the men, too?

I guess they see them as less of a threat because of their age? Which isn't entirely fair.

It's very amusing for me when you consider that my wife is incredibly threatened by my one ex, who is six years younger than me, but is quite okay with me still having a friendly relationship with another ex, who is exactly one year older than I.  I think my wife actually wants to meet her. 

I share far more things in common with the latter than with the former and I'm convinced it's the age thing.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on August 12, 2011, 11:26:03 AM
These answers have been most helpful! I am still interested in what the zen master orthonormo has to say though.  :police:

I also have an actual question (ie. my second legitimate question on the thread)...

Question #5: When a woman winks at you, does it always mean she's interested in a relationship?

I realise that I'm hardly movie star material in the looks department, but in the last year I've had some strange winks, one from a therapist, and one from a woman who appeared to be 12-15 years older than me.  Definitely "lol wut?" moments for me.

Orthonorm is following the fast.  We will switch places on Monday, but for now you are just going to have to deal with the half-wit substitute!

Sometimes a wink is just a wink.  Sometimes it is an eye irritation.  Sometimes they are propositioning you to act as though you were consummating a marriage.  Assuming that it is one of the first two will have no ill side effects.  Assuming it is the third can lead to a court order.

Hit on the therapist if you must.  She probably has lots of g-money.  Remember what Cicero said.  The sinews of war a successful relationship are infinite money.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on August 12, 2011, 01:18:51 PM
Question #4: I finally got a response from this online dating service I found, fetfriends.com, but I'm a bit confused and want your advice. This woman asked me a bunch of questions, and I don't know how to respond. First she asked me what my hard limits are. I haven't really messed with computers for years, what software/application do you think she is asking about? Second she asked me if I had ever been collared, which is really strange! I mean, I went to a party dressed as a dog one halloween, but how did she know that? Third she asked if I liked water sports, which I do, but since neither of us are near the ocean, or even a large lake, I don't get why she would ask that. And finally she said she was a switch. I think it was a typo and she meant witch. I don't really want to date a witch though. What do I do?

1 - Hard[ware...must have been a typo] limits are pretty much looking for the speed of your computer.  For example, my computer has an i5 processor (tri-core), 6mb of DDR3 RAM, etc.

2 - She is trying to make sure you are not a member of the clergy.  (Many Catholic priests wear those bizarre white things around their neck.  Some Protestants do as well.)  She seems like a very decent and upstanding person and wouldn't want to get involved with someone who is already married or is celibate.

3 - Hello?  You need to get out more.  All you need for water polo is a pool, some horses, and a ball.

4 - She probably means she's a "stitch" meaning she has a good sense of humour and will have you rofl'ing with laughter.

In the future, you should be careful to make sure that the women you are looking for are not witches.  Dating a witch will only get you burned...


I will get to Question #3 eventually.  But I am still trying to find someone who took the effort to get a degree in sex and also has real-world experience with someone other than themselves.  If I was the sort for shameless self-promotion I would direct you towards my book Don't Do It Like They Do On The Discovery Channel - Top 10 Reasons Why You Should Not Date A Woman Who Thinks She's A Preying Mantis, and Other Helpful Tips, by Dr. Vamrat.  Published by Paladin Press.

You owe me a new laptop.  And also compensation for the pain and suffering of blowing hot coffee through my nose.  Remember, I know where you live!

You can have my old one, if you can figure out how to load a new OS on it.

If it can play the tank battle game, you are on.  But then again, if it could, you would not have got a new one, right?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 12, 2011, 01:23:00 PM
Why is it that women don't seem to mind it when an older woman hits on their significant other, but God forbid if some young lass flirts with the same.
That's actually a good question that I can't answer. Husband has actually dated older women, so you think I would be threatened. Some of them have been ridiculously brazen too, asking him out constantly when we were engaged.

But then again, he is more bothered when younger men hit on me, versus older men. And I have always preferred older men, so would that go for the men, too?

I guess they see them as less of a threat because of their age? Which isn't entirely fair.

It's very amusing for me when you consider that my wife is incredibly threatened by my one ex, who is six years younger than me, but is quite okay with me still having a friendly relationship with another ex, who is exactly one year older than I.  I think my wife actually wants to meet her. 

I share far more things in common with the latter than with the former and I'm convinced it's the age thing.


I am overly generalizing here, but I feel threatened (not gonna lie) by the ones even younger than me. Young girls look and dress so maturely nowadays that my guy friends stare at a girl for a long time before finding out that she's 16. How do I, with my senior year post-thesis weight gain, health problems, undereye circles from work, even venture to compete against that?

Like I said though, it's unfair to just be jealous of the younger women, because older women are typically very, very direct and men like that, too.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on August 12, 2011, 01:24:34 PM
Why is it that women don't seem to mind it when an older woman hits on their significant other, but God forbid if some young lass flirts with the same.

I think my wife would be more worried the other way.  She knows that I like older women.  The younger they are, the less interested that I am.  However, to address your question with pseudo-science, the younger lass is looking for a sugar daddy.  The older one is just looking for a good time, and may even let your wife join the fun.  But then again, I could be wrong.  Vamrat should probably answer this.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 12, 2011, 01:25:05 PM
Sometimes a wink is just a wink.  Sometimes it is an eye irritation.  Sometimes they are propositioning you to act as though you were consummating a marriage.  Assuming that it is one of the first two will have no ill side effects.  Assuming it is the third can lead to a court order.
It's usually number 2. I'm just saying.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 12, 2011, 02:17:54 PM
This is a bit of a let down. I was hoping yuns guys would tell me that winks were universal signs for "please systematically ravage me!"  Well, anyway...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 12, 2011, 02:37:10 PM
This is a bit of a let down. I was hoping yuns guys would tell me that winks were universal signs for "please systematically ravage me!"  Well, anyway...
Actually to be serious, I never wink intentionally. If I do, I'm like "Shoot, when did I start liking this guy?"

Not to say that it's a ravage green light  :P, but I don't give out my winks too easily. Other women should chime in; I'm sure that I am not a good representative sample.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on August 12, 2011, 03:02:54 PM
This is a bit of a let down. I was hoping yuns guys would tell me that winks were universal signs for "please systematically ravage me!"  Well, anyway...
Actually to be serious, I never wink intentionally. If I do, I'm like "Shoot, when did I start liking this guy?"

Not to say that it's a ravage green light  :P, but I don't give out my winks too easily. Other women should chime in; I'm sure that I am not a good representative sample.

And see, I never wink in a sexual way.  It's more to show I am teasing.  When I am in a naughty mood you can tell because I am breathing and have a pulse.  All other times than those, I am probably stiff.  (Edit - I am referring to rigor mortis, BTW)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 12, 2011, 03:05:57 PM
LOL that edit was necessary.  :D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 12, 2011, 05:35:33 PM
This is a bit of a let down. I was hoping yuns guys would tell me that winks were universal signs for "please systematically ravage me!"  Well, anyway...
Actually to be serious, I never wink intentionally. If I do, I'm like "Shoot, when did I start liking this guy?"

Not to say that it's a ravage green light  :P, but I don't give out my winks too easily. Other women should chime in; I'm sure that I am not a good representative sample.

Oh, so now the winks were a sign? Or not? You people need to make up your minds! :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 12, 2011, 05:37:20 PM
MY winks are a sign. I cannot say as much for the women in your examples.  ;)

Oops!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 12, 2011, 05:57:54 PM
Women. *shakes head* On average they seem to have a larger indecision nucleus than they used to  :-X

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TYKFXzXWJzg/Tcrkzod4xGI/AAAAAAAAJlw/E9j4bwxtBl8/s1600/1+female_brain.gif)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TheMathematician on August 19, 2011, 12:33:22 AM
a wee bit of caution

(the following post contains part of the BDSM culture, which some may find squeamish. that is why im attempting to hide it in spoiler tags, if possible)

[spoiler]The idea of being collared is the public act of submission in a master(mistress)/slave relationship. BDSM consists of the idea of a Dominant(Dom) and a Submissive(Sub). the M/S relationship takes this to the extreme, with the sub literally and willingly entering a slave relationship, in order to serve their master/mistress and please them, which in turn pleases and sastifies the sub. the collaring ceromony is the public sign of this

By her asking if you are collared, it is practically asking if you are a submissive in a relationship, and or during sex

wiki link on this, the picture that is on here shows a collar attached to a neck, and there are no inapproaite pictures on this page, though i will not vouch for the sublinks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master/slave_(BDSM)/[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on August 19, 2011, 08:11:47 PM
Oh my little baby is all grown-up, actually it ain't.

While this thread has gotten longer in my absence, I return calloused from hundreds of prostrations an hour to our Holy Lady with even greater insight into the topic at hand than when I left you all wandering in the dark, the state of manhood in this forum hasn't altered an iota.

Many thanks to vamrat for his advice while I was away, if not for its utility then for its wit.

And looking over the thread, many here have obvious anger toward women.

At first, I will be ministering to those poor anemic men who lack the courage and confidence to have more than a passing friendship with a woman.

But I'll get to you bitter types as well, for you both are two sides of the same coin.

God willing, I will start where I left off sometime this weekend.

And yes, lest this fall into the realm of mere navel gazing, I will be drawing upon examples from my own life and of those of all the lesser men I have known.

Till then.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on August 21, 2011, 04:47:48 PM
Listen ladies, men only have two emotions: horny and hungry. So if we don't have an erection, go and make us a sandwich.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Andrew Crook on August 21, 2011, 04:48:04 PM
Ah Ortho,

serious or joking?  Because most of this thread has been about making jokes.  ;D  You will need to do one of those weird smiley faces... if you're joking!  8)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on August 21, 2011, 09:52:34 PM
Listen ladies, men only have two emotions: horny and hungry. So if we don't have an erection, go and make us a sandwich.

Thanks!

Don't forget tired.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 21, 2011, 10:01:28 PM
You guys all clearly need Orthonorm's column.

And then he needs a woman to whip him into shape.*


End of story.

;)

(Although if his OP is right, he should have 5 or 6 nagging supporting him right now.)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TheMathematician on August 21, 2011, 10:06:04 PM
best and easiest piece of advice


the woman is always right
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TheodoraElizabeth3 on August 21, 2011, 10:42:28 PM
Listen ladies, men only have two emotions: horny and hungry. So if we don't have an erection, go and make us a sandwich.

Thanks!

Hah! I love to cook!  ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on August 21, 2011, 10:44:53 PM
Sometimes I wish you guys are hungry more often LOL.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on August 26, 2011, 09:32:11 PM
[spoiler]The idea of being collared is the public act of submission in a master(mistress)/slave relationship. BDSM consists of the idea of a Dominant(Dom) and a Submissive(Sub). the M/S relationship takes this to the extreme, with the sub literally and willingly entering a slave relationship, in order to serve their master/mistress and please them, which in turn pleases and sastifies the sub. the collaring ceromony is the public sign of this

True doms require their slaves to get slave registry tattoos...  just sayin :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 08, 2011, 05:43:41 PM
Question #6: Ok, so I met this girl in my sociology class. When the teacher asked us to partner up for a project this girl came over to me and asked if I had a partner yet, and since I didn't she sat down and joined me. She seems so nice and sweet, like she smiles a lot and looks at me all the time. And not just regular eye contact, but she seems really interested in everything I have to say. She laughs at all my jokes as well, it's great. It does get a little awkward though because she touches me all the time when she laughs, like she'll touch my arm or something. Anyway, so she gave me her number in case I wanted to study together. I really like her! But how do I know if she's interested, and whether to ask her out or not? I think maybe I shouldn't, because she'd be flirting with me if she was interested, right?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on September 08, 2011, 06:20:38 PM
I should probably be subscribed to this thread for the rest of my life.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on September 08, 2011, 06:44:30 PM
Question #6: Ok, so I met this girl in my sociology class. When the teacher asked us to partner up for a project this girl came over to me and asked if I had a partner yet, and since I didn't she sat down and joined me. She seems so nice and sweet, like she smiles a lot and looks at me all the time. And not just regular eye contact, but she seems really interested in everything I have to say. She laughs at all my jokes as well, it's great. It does get a little awkward though because she touches me all the time when she laughs, like she'll touch my arm or something. Anyway, so she gave me her number in case I wanted to study together. I really like her! But how do I know if she's interested, and whether to ask her out or not? I think maybe I shouldn't, because she'd be flirting with me if she was interested, right?


ROFL
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on September 09, 2011, 11:53:36 AM
Question #6: Ok, so I met this girl in my sociology class. When the teacher asked us to partner up for a project this girl came over to me and asked if I had a partner yet, and since I didn't she sat down and joined me. She seems so nice and sweet, like she smiles a lot and looks at me all the time. And not just regular eye contact, but she seems really interested in everything I have to say. She laughs at all my jokes as well, it's great. It does get a little awkward though because she touches me all the time when she laughs, like she'll touch my arm or something. Anyway, so she gave me her number in case I wanted to study together. I really like her! But how do I know if she's interested, and whether to ask her out or not? I think maybe I shouldn't, because she'd be flirting with me if she was interested, right?
Watch your wallet mate.....

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 13, 2011, 02:47:08 AM
Question #7: Ok, so I decided to call that girl I mentioned in my last post, because there is a test coming up and I really need to study some more. Here is how the conversation went:

[I call her and the phone is ringing, then she picks up]
Sarah: Hello?
Justin: Oh, uh, hi!
Sarah: Barry?
Justin: Um, no, it's Justin. From sociology class.
Sarah: Oh, right! What's up?
Justin: Well, you said maybe to call you if I wanted to study together, so I thought maybe we could set something up.
Sarah: Sure hun, how about tomorrow night?
Justin: Ok, do you want to meet at the school?
Sarah: Not really.
Justin: We could always go to the public library?
Sarah: Huh? No...
Justin: Well... er...
Sarah: How about your place?
Justin: Oh, my place? Yeah, I guess we could do that, if you want to...
Sarah: Definitely. Can't wait.
Justin: Right, I guess it's better, cause it'll be quieter and we can focus more on school work.
Sarah: Oh... yeah, school work...
Justin: So I'll see you tomorrow at my place? What time?
Sarah: Maybe 8?
Justin: At night?
Sarah: Sure, why not?
Justin: Oh, I just thought you'd come earlier so we'd have more time to study, that's all.
Sarah: I don't mind staying late.
Justin: Oh, ok, I don't mind studying late either, I'm a night owl.
Sarah: See you tomorrow.
[hangs up phone]

Ok, so we're all set up. She even texted me afterwards to confirm our "date," as she called it (since she was texting I guess she just didn't want to type out "study date"). Anyway, here's my problem: I've never had someone over to study with me. What should I expect? I know the obvious stuff to do: lots of lighting, no distractions like music, etc., so we can really focus on sociology. But what else? Like should I offer her a drink as soon as she gets here, or wait for a while, or what? Should it be soda or fruit juice, or just avoid the sweet stuff and stick with water? Should I sit across from her or beside her? Should we use two books or share one? Also, what if she keeps touching me again like I mentioned in my previous post? That could get awkard, who wants to be touched constantly by a girl you hardly know? If that happens would it be rude to cut the studying short? I told my buddy about Sarah coming over and he just laughed and said "About time. Good for you."  What does this mean? Is studying with someone really that different than studying alone? I really don't want to mess this up, if it works out this could be the key to me getting an A, and maybe even a good reference from this teacher when I transfer schools!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on September 13, 2011, 03:00:27 AM
LMFAO

Come on dude is this for real?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 13, 2011, 03:22:47 AM
LMFAO

Come on dude is this for real?

What do you mean? 

Someone please answer before tomorrow night!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on September 13, 2011, 03:41:28 AM
She wants to have sex with you and all you can think about is studying.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 13, 2011, 03:44:49 AM
She wants to have sex with you and all you can think about is studying.

Dude, if she wanted to have sex she'd be sending signals. Seriously, you know nothing about women.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on September 13, 2011, 03:55:54 AM
Quit pulling our legs, I'm cracking up.  :D :D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on September 13, 2011, 11:48:01 AM
She wants to have sex with you and all you can think about is studying.

Dude, if she wanted to have sex she'd be sending signals. Seriously, you know nothing about women.
Ok, from someone who actually has been pretty successful with women and am currently married happily let me give you some advice.

Firstly, she's interested. Not with sex per se, but with you. Touching (also laughing and slapping your arm, touching your knee for a second while talking to you, etc) is signs of comfortability. If she was not interested at all with you (friends or otherwise) she would not firstly, call it a "date" nor be at your house. She would choose a neutral place. She also would most assuredly not be the one to suggest your place.

Secondly, she finds you disarming and easy to talk to. She would not come over so late and mentioning staying up late if she found you to be a tool.

Now, what to do. I would start by sitting diagonal until such time that sitting next to her is acceptable. Such as reading something she is reading or she asks you to "come here and take a look at this", etc. I would also find out what she likes for a snack. if she likes salad whip up something cheap and easy "in case she gets hungry". Coffee wouldn't hurt either. I wouldn't assume anything. Get to know each other. Talk a bit. Take a break from studying for 20 mins or so (salad and coffee or sammiches, or whatever) and let her talk. Ask her stuff like how she chose the school, what she plans to do after graduating, etc. Keep it light and let her dictate the pace. Her comfortability is paramount.

I will say you have one thing going in your favor. She at least finds you interesting. Where it leads (if you want it to lead anywhere) is really up to HER.....not you :)


PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: katherineofdixie on September 13, 2011, 12:16:47 PM
Where it leads (if you want it to lead anywhere) is really up to HER.....not you :)

At last, a man who understands women.

 ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on September 13, 2011, 12:28:33 PM
Where it leads (if you want it to lead anywhere) is really up to HER.....not you :)

At last, a man who understands women.

 ;D
My wife would disagree a little bit but hey, I did land her so I had to do something right :)

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 13, 2011, 12:31:29 PM
You landed your wife?

 >:( ;)

Excuse me. We are not trout.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on September 13, 2011, 12:36:49 PM
You landed your wife?

 >:( ;)

Excuse me. We are not trout.
See? one reason my wife would disagree...my terminology is a bit.....off :)
However you are correct. landing the biggest trout gets you an award....landing the biggest wife gets you a higher grocery bill........

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2011, 03:30:44 PM
You landed your wife?

 >:( ;)

Excuse me. We are not trout.

I thought he was referring to her as an airplane.  Not sure where one would go with that, but it is a funny mental image.  I hope I score me a Stuka someday.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 13, 2011, 03:32:59 PM
I was imaging him catching a fish and letting it (her) flop all over the ground while he said "YAHHHHOOOOO!"

;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on September 13, 2011, 03:35:31 PM
I was imaging him catching a fish and letting it (her) flop all over the ground while he said "YAHHHHOOOOO!"

;)
Thats pretty funny as I actually got her into fishing with me. She goes with me at least twice a week :0

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2011, 03:53:37 PM
I was imaging him catching a fish and letting it (her) flop all over the ground while he said "YAHHHHOOOOO!"

;)
Thats pretty funny as I actually got her into fishing with me. She goes with me at least twice a week :0

PP

So, if she ever falls in and you pull her out you might get a chance to land her.  There, your poor word choices have now been justified.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on September 13, 2011, 03:57:46 PM
She wants to have sex with you and all you can think about is studying.

Dude, if she wanted to have sex she'd be sending signals. Seriously, you know nothing about women.
Ok, from someone who actually has been pretty successful with women and am currently married happily let me give you some advice.

Firstly, she's interested. Not with sex per se, but with you. Touching (also laughing and slapping your arm, touching your knee for a second while talking to you, etc) is signs of comfortability. If she was not interested at all with you (friends or otherwise) she would not firstly, call it a "date" nor be at your house. She would choose a neutral place. She also would most assuredly not be the one to suggest your place.

Secondly, she finds you disarming and easy to talk to. She would not come over so late and mentioning staying up late if she found you to be a tool.

Now, what to do. I would start by sitting diagonal until such time that sitting next to her is acceptable. Such as reading something she is reading or she asks you to "come here and take a look at this", etc. I would also find out what she likes for a snack. if she likes salad whip up something cheap and easy "in case she gets hungry". Coffee wouldn't hurt either. I wouldn't assume anything. Get to know each other. Talk a bit. Take a break from studying for 20 mins or so (salad and coffee or sammiches, or whatever) and let her talk. Ask her stuff like how she chose the school, what she plans to do after graduating, etc. Keep it light and let her dictate the pace. Her comfortability is paramount.

I will say you have one thing going in your favor. She at least finds you interesting. Where it leads (if you want it to lead anywhere) is really up to HER.....not you :)


PP
If you had to plan stuff out like this hours ahead of time just to land a broad (as Orthonorm would say) I would be a monk right now.  ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on September 13, 2011, 05:13:40 PM
I must resume this child of mine soon. My wisdom while helping within OC.net chat, I realize needs to be planted here where more can benefit.

If posters would just stop posting ridiculous threads . . . I could get back to doing the Lord's work.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 13, 2011, 05:14:54 PM
If posters would just stop posting ridiculous threads . . . I could get back to doing the Lord's work.

I want to be right at the gate when you try giving Him THAT excuse.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on September 13, 2011, 05:16:25 PM
I must resume this child of mine soon. My wisdom while helping within OC.net chat, I realize needs to be planted here where more can benefit.

If posters would just stop posting ridiculous threads . . . I could get back to doing the Lord's work.

You could always end the schism and hopefully increase the availability of kosher women. That would be a noble worthwhile task.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 13, 2011, 05:19:02 PM
Believe me, you guys don't want Catholic girls. We're insane, and not in the good way.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on September 13, 2011, 05:29:43 PM
Believe me, you guys don't want Catholic girls. We're insane, and not in the good way.

I dated one once. If I picked my church based only on the one person that I personally knew with the most personal holiness, I would have to be Catholic because of her.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on September 13, 2011, 05:35:59 PM
Believe me, you guys don't want Catholic girls. We're insane, and not in the good way.

As opposed to the Orthodox?

(http://tackyweddings.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/3.jpg?w=500&h=334)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 13, 2011, 05:37:39 PM
Aw, I'm just kidding around. Kind of (I am a little crazy and so are the people I grew up around). My husband preferred them, too (his Pentecostal parents LOVED that and LOVE that I've supposedly brought him to Orthodoxy). I wonder why?


Akimori - LMAO! I don't know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on September 13, 2011, 05:50:23 PM
Believe me, you guys don't want Catholic girls. We're insane, and not in the good way.

As opposed to the Orthodox?

(http://tackyweddings.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/3.jpg?w=500&h=334)

Is that Kim Cardassian?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 13, 2011, 05:51:16 PM
It's de Greeks.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on September 13, 2011, 05:55:45 PM
It's de Greeks.

Could Parminides and Plato have foreseen what would become of their noble bloodline?

I despair.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 13, 2011, 08:36:27 PM
Thanks for the advice, especially primuspilus, but it was for naught!  :(

I was at school today and I saw someone in the lounge that I recognized from my sociology class, so I said hello. We got to talking and she was really afraid of the test coming up and was probably going to withdraw from the course. I obviously didn't want to see that happen to anyone, so I invited her to the study sessions at my place. She didn't seem to want to come, but when I told her about Sarah being there as well she seemed a bit more at ease and agreed to come. Well, she got there about 7:30, and we started studying a bit. Then Sarah got there maybe 15 minutes later, and it all went downhill from there. Sarah walks into the living room and then just stopped, and got mad for some reason. "What the heck is this?" she asked, only she didn't say "heck".  I tried to explain why Desiree was here, but she wouldn't listen. I think the main thing that got Sarah mad is that I said "we could turn it into a threesome". What's the big deal? Three heads are better than one!  She just said something like "I'm not into that you sick frick," only she didn't say "frick". Then she left. Now she won't return my calls or texts.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 13, 2011, 08:41:45 PM
WAIT, I MUST KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE OR NOT. Oh, the drama!

(LOL the study part, not the threesome. At least I hope not. ;) )
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on September 13, 2011, 08:48:40 PM
I think the main thing that got Sarah mad is that I said "we could turn it into a threesome"

BWAHAHAHA! Probably not the best joke for the moment, but still funny.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: tuesdayschild on September 13, 2011, 08:54:58 PM
Believe me, you guys don't want Catholic girls. We're insane, and not in the good way.

There's a good insane?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on September 14, 2011, 05:44:58 AM
LOL ok so the story is a joke, just making sure. I was right
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 14, 2011, 05:55:41 AM
My life is no joke!  Thankfully desiree stayed the night to console me...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 14, 2011, 08:49:24 AM
I feel much better today. Sarah is gone, but at least I still have Desiree. Here's a picture of her (http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9703/desireen.jpg) I took this morning before she left. I was going to kiss her goodbye, but I figured maybe that would be moving too quickly.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 14, 2011, 09:10:50 AM
Wow, not many girls wear jean jackets without anything underneath! She's a keeper!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 14, 2011, 09:15:54 AM
Yeah, she came out of the bedroom with my jacket on and asked how she looked. I thought she looked good, though I'm confused why she was wearing it. I guess she just liked it, maybe I should buy her one like that?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 14, 2011, 09:18:11 AM
Maybe you should say, "No, take it off RIGHT NOW. THAT'S MINE," and see how she responds.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 14, 2011, 09:30:11 AM
Maybe you should say, "No, take it off RIGHT NOW. THAT'S MINE," and see how she responds.  :laugh:

 :o >:( Hello? Then she'd be naked! What are you, crazy? It was hard enough sleeping in the wrong direction last night. I was getting ready to sleep on the couch, cause she was already in bed in the bedroom, and she said something about not minding if I join her. I figured it might be a bit cramped, but it really wasn't. However, I obviously laid in the opposite direction so I wouldn't accidentally touch her inappropriately, and it was hard sleeping "upside down," so to speak. If she's going to be staying over often I'm gonna have to buy an air mattress or something.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 14, 2011, 09:43:59 AM
If I may also add, I'm getting frustrated with you people and your gutter-minds. Sex a few days after meeting? What are you even talking about? Even the really evil and perverted, like swingers or people from the Ukraine, don't do that. Haven't you ever heard of key parties? This is where swingers have a potluck dinner, and they all throw their keys into one container, and then randomly pull out someone else's keys, and then they talk with that person and decide whether they want to meet for lunch some time to get to know each other. It takes at least a few months, they don't just jump in the sack the first night! I don't know where you people live (probably San Francisco), but around these parts we still have a little thing called modesty and decorum.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 14, 2011, 09:52:03 AM
I didn't know that in your parts of the country, that you let a woman console you by sleeping in your bed! I should totally move out of San Fransisco, because here, sleeping a guy's bed usually means you have to join in the sexytime.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 14, 2011, 09:54:35 AM
Out of Christian charity I will not condemn you for your strange ideas and practices, but please remember that in most parts of the world what you describe would be quite unseemly!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on September 14, 2011, 09:55:37 AM
Asteriktos, don't let these wicked people lead you astray.  You have the right mindset.  Any floozie who will sleep with you before marriage for any reason other than that you have a gun, is not worth the goats you would have paid to her father as restitution.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 14, 2011, 09:57:57 AM
My father didn't get goats before my marriage. Did we do something wrong?  ??? Did my husband scam us?!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on September 14, 2011, 10:06:42 AM
My father didn't get goats before my marriage. Did we do something wrong?  ??? Did my husband scam us?!

Oh no.  Goats are just the normal way.  A girl of your caliber was probably worth at least a half dozen camels.  Maybe even a good horse.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on September 14, 2011, 10:12:48 AM
 :'(! Does that mean I'm easy?!

Listen, the only advice I've gotten concerning marriage and relationships was when my mother told me, "Don't give away the milk for free" when I started dating my then-boyfriend. Now every time I prepare him coffee or cereal, I charge him $3.00 and he isn't very happy about it. We're seeing a marriage counselor next week.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on September 14, 2011, 10:13:44 AM
My father didn't get goats before my marriage. Did we do something wrong?  ??? Did my husband scam us?!

Oh no.  Goats are just the normal way.  A girl of your caliber was probably worth at least a half dozen camels.  Maybe even a good horse.
What about a barbecue sauce recipe? That's what the deal was between me and my wife's dad....

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on September 14, 2011, 10:19:20 AM
My father didn't get goats before my marriage. Did we do something wrong?  ??? Did my husband scam us?!

Oh no.  Goats are just the normal way.  A girl of your caliber was probably worth at least a half dozen camels.  Maybe even a good horse.
What about a barbecue sauce recipe? That's what the deal was between me and my wife's dad....

PP

Wow, that's one saucy girl you've got there...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: LizaSymonenko on September 14, 2011, 10:50:59 AM
If I may also add, I'm getting frustrated with you people and your gutter-minds. Sex a few days after meeting? What are you even talking about? Even the really evil and perverted, like swingers or people from the Ukraine, don't do that.

Watch it!

What are you intimating about Ukrainians?
 :angel:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on September 14, 2011, 11:01:58 AM
:'(! Does that mean I'm easy?!

Listen, the only advice I've gotten concerning marriage and relationships was when my mother told me, "Don't give away the milk for free" when I started dating my then-boyfriend. Now every time I prepare him coffee or cereal, I charge him $3.00 and he isn't very happy about it. We're seeing a marriage counselor next week.

I was always told don't buy the cow when the milk is free.  I spent the money I was going to use for the cow on an iPod and a used AK instead.  When I went to the bazaar I found that the milk proprietor's definition of free was different than mine.  He made me marry his ugly daughter for "stealing" the milk, but it all turned out for the best.  She came with a cow.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on September 14, 2011, 11:54:43 AM
My father didn't get goats before my marriage. Did we do something wrong?  ??? Did my husband scam us?!

Oh no.  Goats are just the normal way.  A girl of your caliber was probably worth at least a half dozen camels.  Maybe even a good horse.
What about a barbecue sauce recipe? That's what the deal was between me and my wife's dad....

PP

Wow, that's one saucy girl you've got there...
**rimshot followed by applause**
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: CoptoGeek on September 14, 2011, 12:35:50 PM
My father didn't get goats before my marriage. Did we do something wrong?  ??? Did my husband scam us?!

Oh no.  Goats are just the normal way.  A girl of your caliber was probably worth at least a half dozen camels.  Maybe even a good horse.

Camels would simply not do in your geographic area. A good mixture of goats, cows, and pigs would show your future FIL that you're a practical as well as generous man and can provide for your future bride.

I chose the mother and child animal package for my lovely wife and we've been living in marital bliss since.

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/oxfam-unwrapped-animal-lovers
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on September 29, 2011, 12:20:19 AM
Question #8: So my therapist (who is single) has been giving me a lot of compliments lately. I mean a lot more than usual. So then yesterday she "accidentally" misspelled my name. She said she added or used an "s" by mistake. I'm not sure if she meant "Kissels" or "Kisses". Anyway, I don't really care about all that client/patient ethics crap, so should I try to ask her out?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on November 01, 2011, 12:58:03 PM
Hey Jason I have a question. How do you not feel guilty before you break up with someone.

Thanks
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TITL on November 01, 2011, 01:05:14 PM
Question #8: So my therapist (who is single) has been giving me a lot of compliments lately. I mean a lot more than usual. So then yesterday she "accidentally" misspelled my name. She said she added or used an "s" by mistake. I'm not sure if she meant "Kissels" or "Kisses". Anyway, I don't really care about all that client/patient ethics crap, so should I try to ask her out?

You're going to ask her out cause she misspelled your name?  ::)

I'm going to have to vote "no" on this one.

P.S. sorry to break it to you, but she get's paid to give you compliments.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 01, 2011, 01:34:33 PM
Hey Jason I have a question. How do you not feel guilty before you break up with someone.

Thanks

Oh, I forgot about this baby.

Big news to be released tomorrow. The last month has been nutz workwise and "vocation" wise. So when I have not been struck by my sleeping sickness or working or pontificating, I've been busy doing a little writing and hand holding. Usually all at the same time.

See tomorrow's Variety.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on November 01, 2011, 01:42:38 PM
Hey Jason I have a question. How do you not feel guilty before you break up with someone.

Thanks

Oh, I forgot about this baby.
;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 01, 2011, 01:42:59 PM
Big news to be released tomorrow.
Does it involve a new lady friend, ensnared using all of the advice on this thread?  :o :D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 01, 2011, 01:49:50 PM
Big news to be released tomorrow.
Does it involve a new lady friend, ensnared using all of the advice on this thread?  :o :D

A certain *ahem* beknighted fellow and *ahem* person of interest, which cannot be hinted at till tomorrow's Vanity* release and *ahem* a bit of doctoring something and *ahem* me having a finger on the key of the city for a while.

And something to do with one of the most famous pieces of literature dealing with the change of relations between men and women.

*ahem*

*Freudian slip: Variety
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 01, 2011, 01:52:25 PM
I dunno what you said, but it sounds dirty.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on November 01, 2011, 02:27:37 PM

... but is quite okay with me still having a friendly relationship with another ex, who is exactly one year older than I.  I think my wife actually wants to meet her. 


You'll rue that day, son... ain't nothing good gonna come from that.  :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on November 01, 2011, 02:58:05 PM
I've always been told that it is good to have a wife that is an excellent cook, one that is a demon in bed, one that keeps the house spotless, and one that makes you feel really good about yourself.  I have also heard that it is not a good idea to have them meet.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on November 01, 2011, 07:36:02 PM
Question #8: So my therapist (who is single) has been giving me a lot of compliments lately. I mean a lot more than usual. So then yesterday she "accidentally" misspelled my name. She said she added or used an "s" by mistake. I'm not sure if she meant "Kissels" or "Kisses". Anyway, I don't really care about all that client/patient ethics crap, so should I try to ask her out?

You're going to ask her out cause she misspelled your name?  ::)

I'm going to have to vote "no" on this one.

P.S. sorry to break it to you, but she get's paid to give you compliments.
Asteriktos is just kidding around in this thread.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 01, 2011, 07:45:05 PM
that is a demon in bed
After hearing this "really funny" quip from a group of guy friends, I proceeded to demonstrate exactly what I thought "a demon in bed" sounded like.

Needless to say, they took it back.

What an awful descriptor!  :o :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on November 01, 2011, 07:49:10 PM
that is a demon in bed
After hearing this "really funny" quip from a group of guy friends, I proceeded to demonstrate exactly what I thought "a demon in bed" sounded like.

Needless to say, they took it back.

What an awful descriptor!  :o :P

succubus in bed?  ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 01, 2011, 07:52:40 PM
that is a demon in bed
After hearing this "really funny" quip from a group of guy friends, I proceeded to demonstrate exactly what I thought "a demon in bed" sounded like.

Needless to say, they took it back.

What an awful descriptor!  :o :P

succubus in bed?  ;D
Pretty much lol.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on November 01, 2011, 11:54:21 PM
that is a demon in bed
After hearing this "really funny" quip from a group of guy friends, I proceeded to demonstrate exactly what I thought "a demon in bed" sounded like.

Needless to say, they took it back.

What an awful descriptor!  :o :P

succubus in bed?  ;D
Pretty much lol.

Prolly better than a banshee.

Edit - Come to think of it, the movie Conan the Barbarian (the real one) had a good depiction of what a demon in bed would be like.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on November 02, 2011, 12:00:22 AM
That sad reality is that statement of "demon in bed" actual was a true statement for me, for about a month with an ex-gf.

One of the worst times in my life.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on November 02, 2011, 08:10:33 AM
Prolly better than a banshee.

Aren't banshees known for their moaning and screaming?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on November 02, 2011, 08:21:22 AM
Prolly better than a banshee.

Aren't banshees known for their moaning and screaming?

Yeah, but it's loud. And not hot screaming, but 'um, hun, are you alright?'. You'll just end up calling ghostbusters or shooting her in the head.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TITL on November 02, 2011, 08:26:06 AM
Question #8: So my therapist (who is single) has been giving me a lot of compliments lately. I mean a lot more than usual. So then yesterday she "accidentally" misspelled my name. She said she added or used an "s" by mistake. I'm not sure if she meant "Kissels" or "Kisses". Anyway, I don't really care about all that client/patient ethics crap, so should I try to ask her out?

You're going to ask her out cause she misspelled your name?  ::)

I'm going to have to vote "no" on this one.

P.S. sorry to break it to you, but she get's paid to give you compliments.
Asteriktos is just kidding around in this thread.

Oh. I was wondering why no one else responded to him.  ::)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 02, 2011, 11:37:31 AM
Hey Jason I have a question. How do you not feel guilty before you break up with someone.

Thanks

OK.

First sorry for the blow off. This is a serious question and this thread needs attention.

But when you are writing the next great American memoir, being made a saint, waiting for breaking news to come out of the AFM, wet nursing meth babies, making soap, and herding cats in an online chat forum, serving as the petri dish for the fourth plague of the apocalypse, even orthonormie can get a bit spread too thin.

Ending relationships and guilt . . .

This is complicated question and one I of course have much experience in. I've broken more hearts than partially hydrogenated oil. It is a heavy burden to carry. And these are just the women I pass on the street. The countless women who realize the rest of their romantic life will forever be shadowed by the man they passed for just one fleeting moment . . .

You've seen the face for GQ. You've heard the voice for radio. The wit, the compassion, the intellect, the ability to be all things to all people.

So you know I do in fact bear this painful Cross.

I really considered taking St. Christopher Cynocephalus as my patron saint. Many woes in the world would be mitigated just a little, if I were not so darn handsome:

(http://nam.culture.gr/portal/pls/portal/docs/1/90014.JPG)

That I too may one day be granted the grace of having such a face. But even without my disarming good looks all else that is orthonorm I do believe would still shudder the hearts of women.

This is all to say: bro, I do feel your pain.

It is testament to your own Cross of attracting the opposite sex that your girlfriend didn't immediately flee to my doorstep after hearing the few syllables I spoke to her.

Perhaps it would have better for everyone if she had.

Since miraculously that did not happen, what to do?

Answers to come later, but not too late I hope.





Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: CoptoGeek on November 02, 2011, 12:11:39 PM

"he was so handsome that he attracted the attentions of young girls. When he was baptised, he prayed to God that he would get such a face that nobody would be attracted to him. God responded to his prayers and gave him the face of a dog."

LOL, I was wondering what all the dog-faced people stuff was about.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 02, 2011, 12:20:13 PM

"he was so handsome that he attracted the attentions of young girls. When he was baptised, he prayed to God that he would get such a face that nobody would be attracted to him. God responded to his prayers and gave him the face of a dog."

LOL, I was wondering what all the dog-faced people stuff was about.



I hope everyone is praying similar prayers for me.

Preferably a fish. Christo-historically it would be an more evangelical reformation of my visage, it would be Lenten, and I would like to breath underwater.

Thank you for your prayers.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on November 02, 2011, 12:41:23 PM
(http://nam.culture.gr/portal/pls/portal/docs/1/90014.JPG)

 Because he looks benevolent, he reminds me of a faoladh. 

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 02, 2011, 02:02:18 PM
So....basically, orthonorm's answer to Achronos is:

1) Get his girlfriend on the phone with him so that she immediately dumps Achronos, making his job a little easier? (No one is that magic unless you have a South African accent hidden somewhere in there, orthonorm)
2) Pray for him to be less durned handsome than he already is?
3) "Bro, I feel your pain"?

All about the adviser and nothing about the advised. Ah, so refreshing! Someone who talks about themselves all the time!  ;) :-*
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 02, 2011, 02:15:13 PM
So....basically, orthonorm's answer to Achronos is:

1) Get his girlfriend on the phone with him so that she immediately dumps Achronos, making his job a little easier? (No one is that magic unless you have a South African accent hidden somewhere in there, orthonorm)
2) Pray for him to be less durned handsome than he already is?
3) "Bro, I feel your pain"?

All about the adviser and nothing about the advised. Ah, so refreshing! Someone who talks about themselves all the time!  ;) :-*

You didn't read all the way through. Read till the end.

This is what they call in the industry a teaser.

*1. It ain't magic, pagan. It is grace.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 02, 2011, 02:19:25 PM
I know, I just thought that it was a very long teaser. ;)

But how often do people get to post pictures of dog-headed saints?

Magic, grace. Whatever it is, it has a South African accent. Or I could give you Israeli.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 02, 2011, 02:20:50 PM
I know, I just thought that it was a very long teaser. ;)

But how often do people get to post pictures of dog-headed saints?

Magic, grace. Whatever it is, it has a South African accent. Or I could give you Israeli.

You insult me more and more. Please stop.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 02, 2011, 02:22:04 PM
I'll put my game face away, dear. I'm sorry.  :-*
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: PeterTheAleut on November 02, 2011, 02:25:25 PM
(http://nam.culture.gr/portal/pls/portal/docs/1/90014.JPG)

 Because he looks benevolent, he reminds me of a faoladh. 


I saw a man on the street actually dressed up as St. Christopher for Halloween this week. He was wearing a dog's face mask.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 02, 2011, 02:26:00 PM
WOW!!! I would love to see a picture of that.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on November 02, 2011, 02:28:11 PM
I know, I just thought that it was a very long teaser. ;)

But how often do people get to post pictures of dog-headed saints?

Magic, grace. Whatever it is, it has a South African accent. Or I could give you Israeli.

You insult me more and more. Please stop.

It is neither. Orthonorm is Barney Stinson!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on November 02, 2011, 02:32:36 PM
Orthonorm is Barney Stinson!

LOL! He does look like him.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 02, 2011, 02:35:59 PM
OMG YOU COMPARED HIM TO NPH.

Dying now.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on November 02, 2011, 02:47:21 PM
OMG YOU COMPARED HIM TO NPH.

Dying now.

My pleasure. You know, when I first thought of it, I suspected that it would give many of us a particular kick or at least a chuckle. I do want to stress, however, that this is all in the spirit of bonhomie.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 02, 2011, 02:49:30 PM
For the record, orthonorm, I don't think you look ANYTHING like NPH.

I haven't watched the show, though. Everyone keeps telling me it's hilarious. Do we all agree here?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 02, 2011, 02:54:57 PM
OMG YOU COMPARED HIM TO NPH.

Dying now.

My pleasure. You know, when I first thought of it, I suspected that it would give many of us a particular kick or at least a chuckle. I do want to stress, however, that this is all in the spirit of bonhomie.

Oh please. Like I am going to take offense! Especially in this thread.

Besides I evidently resemble every celebrity who has existed in one angle or another.

They all are expressions of what I am. Incomplete as they may be.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: David Leon on November 02, 2011, 02:57:53 PM
There is a New Orleans musician who thanks his audience by saying, "Thank you for reflecting my glory." 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 02, 2011, 02:58:34 PM
For the record, orthonorm, I don't think you look ANYTHING like NPH.

I haven't watched the show, though. Everyone keeps telling me it's hilarious. Do we all agree here?

Are we talking about that How I Married Your Mother?

I watched more than a half a season on the advice of others.

meh. Not much.

NPH did a good job when Glee! was still great. Its success truly killed it. It was too bad. I loved those first 12-13 episodes.

And of course was STUPENDOUS in Dr. Horrible.

But we are getting way far of the subject: me.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 02, 2011, 03:00:03 PM
There is a New Orleans musician who thanks his audience by saying, "Thank you for reflecting my glory." 

That's awesome! I get sick of the "humility" of so many musicians who are "just instruments of God".



Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on November 02, 2011, 03:01:25 PM
For the record, orthonorm, I don't think you look ANYTHING like NPH.

I haven't watched the show, though. Everyone keeps telling me it's hilarious. Do we all agree here?

It is a very popular show, especially in syndication. NPH plays an obnoxious womanizer, a jerk, but there are hints scattered in several episodes that this is an addiction, that he is yearning to be different, not to be a user. Anyway, he is a very good actor and plays the part very well indeed, the play-within-the-play being that the homosexual NPH is playing a hyper-heterosexual.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 02, 2011, 03:05:40 PM
For the record, orthonorm, I don't think you look ANYTHING like NPH.

I haven't watched the show, though. Everyone keeps telling me it's hilarious. Do we all agree here?

It is a very popular show, especially in syndication. NPH plays an obnoxious womanizer, a jerk, but there are hints scattered in several episodes that this is an addiction, that he is yearning to be different, not to be a user. Anyway, he is a very good actor and plays the part very well indeed, the play-within-the-play being that the homosexual NPH is playing a hyper-heterosexual.

Yeah, NPH is the best part of the show. And the subtext did emerge later concerning NPH's homosexuality.

I <3 NPH.

Don't worry ladies, not in THAT way.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 02, 2011, 03:12:54 PM
For the record, orthonorm, I don't think you look ANYTHING like NPH.

I haven't watched the show, though. Everyone keeps telling me it's hilarious. Do we all agree here?

It is a very popular show, especially in syndication. NPH plays an obnoxious womanizer, a jerk, but there are hints scattered in several episodes that this is an addiction, that he is yearning to be different, not to be a user. Anyway, he is a very good actor and plays the part very well indeed, the play-within-the-play being that the homosexual NPH is playing a hyper-heterosexual.

Last post one this, promise.

The narrative structure was intriguing. But really drawn out and with obvious surprise turns.

You know something was a changing in me as well, when I began to find the show "vulgar" for lack of a better work. I mean I watch stuff with more adult content, but the show is often pretty flippant about serious issues, especially relationships. It is a frivolous treatment of human relations without really dealing with the fall out of such a treatment in any serious sense.

And it really demonstrates the incestuous "closed circle" which invariably end sleeping together and being all so OK with it later and open and happy (sometimes) with past lovers' new romances.

Never much into the whole sleeping with a buddy's ex. Or being really down with such a cavalier attitude about dating (= casual sex) and chatting up all about it to over drinks with a group of "friends".

And again, pretty much an obvious show.

Enough of the sheer sincerity. Time to mix it back up with irony.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on November 02, 2011, 03:39:13 PM
I don't know what you all are talking about.  How does NPH have time for womens?  Isn't he supposed to be devoting all his energy to fighting the bugs?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on November 02, 2011, 03:42:51 PM
I don't know what you all are talking about.  How does NPH have time for womens?  Isn't he supposed to be devoting all his energy to fighting the bugs?

He doesn't fight the bugs. He talks to them.

(http://hoodedutilitarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/brainbug.jpg)

Maybe it was a wumanz bug.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on November 02, 2011, 04:05:33 PM
I don't know what you all are talking about.  How does NPH have time for womens?  Isn't he supposed to be devoting all his energy to fighting the bugs?

He doesn't fight the bugs. He talks to them.

(http://hoodedutilitarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/brainbug.jpg)

Maybe it was a wumanz bug.

Oh, he's talking to it alright.  Telling it how he's going to put I giant metal contraption in it's mouth and do other useless tests on it, all for his personal gratification.  Lousy bugs.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: William on November 02, 2011, 07:42:08 PM
Do people still use this thread for dating advice?  ;)

I go to an all male high school and need more exposure to girls. Ideas?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on November 02, 2011, 07:42:56 PM
Do people still use this thread for dating advice?  ;)

I go to an all male high school and need more exposure to girls. Ideas?

Stop being a slacker and graduate already.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TheMathematician on November 02, 2011, 08:22:55 PM
Do people still use this thread for dating advice?  ;)

I go to an all male high school and need more exposure to girls. Ideas?

start liking guys














:P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on November 02, 2011, 09:01:50 PM
orthonorm, what is your big announcement?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 02, 2011, 09:05:46 PM
orthonorm, what is your big announcement?
Check the random postings thread. That's what he was talking about.

I thought he found a woman famous enough to be on the page of Variety! My bad! ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on November 02, 2011, 09:07:48 PM
orthonorm, what is your big announcement?

I <3 NPH.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on November 02, 2011, 09:12:00 PM
orthonorm, what is your big announcement?
Check the random postings thread. That's what he was talking about.

I thought he found a woman famous enough to be on the page of Variety! My bad! ;)
Oh. I see.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 02, 2011, 09:13:42 PM
My guesses on these things are usually way off.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on November 03, 2011, 12:13:45 AM
Hey Jason I have a question. How do you not feel guilty before you break up with someone.

Thanks

OK.

First sorry for the blow off. This is a serious question and this thread needs attention.
LOL so what I got out of that is you are poking fun at my exhibiting vanity but also at the same time I shouldn't feel guilty because I shouldn't view myself so highly, since by our chat convo you and I aren't anything special; I would be doing her the favor.


I guess I took what you said all in jest, but maybe I'm way off base here lol.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 03, 2011, 12:19:51 AM
Did you just....quote a PM?!  ???

And BTW, about the not being special thing, we get that all the ****ing time. Join the club.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on November 03, 2011, 12:28:54 AM
Nah I just snipped his quote down so it wouldn't be so large on this page of the thread.

Does the nothing anything special club get a faux-Member's Only jacket too?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 03, 2011, 12:32:13 AM
I'm frankly in denial about not being special. I don't know what he is talking about.

You'll have to look elsewhere for the club information. ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on November 03, 2011, 09:16:59 AM
Everyone gets so hung up on being special.  Look, there's seven billionish people out there.  Somewhere there is probably an exact carbon copy of you all out there, and the less eccentric you are, the higher the odds of there being more than one.  I like how "special" these days is synonymous with retarded.  They are the only truly unique people out there.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 04, 2011, 11:12:18 PM
What we were we discussing again?

Oh yes, ending relationships and guilt.

Of course every situation is unique.

If you believe the above, go directly to your nearest newsstand and pick up the latest copy of O magazine.

Now given my wealth of experience and insight into the human condition there are a number of answers here.

Let's start with the ideal.

"All things find their end in their beginning."

The best way to end a relationship and mitigate the guilt starts with its beginning.

All endings are painful. They just are. But the pain of guilt has a particular quality and can stem from many missteps taken, but essentially, guilt is the pain of feeling improperly indebted to someone.

We are always in the other's debt. From them we find our very selves. In light of the other, we are. This debt, this gift can never be repaid. Thank God. For no gift should be repaid. It is pride that drives us to not want to be forever indebted to the other.

Someone once said of true gifts: they are what we can never offer ourselves, didn't want, and can never return.

So it is in our relationships with others. Relationships obviously cannot be had alone. We are not individuals. Rarely do relationships give us what we wanted for better and worse. They break our own feeble attempts to project our fantasy onto reality. They show us for who we are in all our grace and falleness. And we can never return them. For all the infantile, ritualistic attempts to cut off the other, the relationship, forever that person will have changed us forever.

This is structure of all relationships.

Sometimes out of nowhere, where we least expected it a person enters our lives and changes us immediately. No matter how much we were not looking for anything or even wanted it, we suddenly are caught up with another. Understanding the structure of the gift of a relationship that radical debt we will always carry will help to understand how to begin, and in beginning, how end the relationship without twisting that wonderful debt into the pain of guilt and free us to feel the pain love and grief.

In short we must accept: we will always owe the other something we cannot repay.

How to avoid have that feeling of indebtedness turn into guilt?

Stay tuned.





Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 07, 2011, 10:19:06 PM
*applauds*
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on November 10, 2011, 01:02:21 PM
When asking a girl out on a first date, is "Do you wanna have breakfast some time?" a good way to ask her?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: HandmaidenofGod on November 10, 2011, 01:11:00 PM
When asking a girl out on a first date, is "Do you wanna have breakfast some time?" a good way to ask her?

No. It implies that you are expecting something the evening before.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on November 10, 2011, 01:17:41 PM
When asking a girl out on a first date, is "Do you wanna have breakfast some time?" a good way to ask her?
No. It implies that you are expecting something the evening before.

I work third shift and get off work at 7 AM.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 10, 2011, 01:20:28 PM
Say "coffee." Makes more sense with time and doesn't have the sleazy connotation of "How do you like your eggs in the morning?"

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on November 10, 2011, 01:28:53 PM
Thank you. Would inserting the words "after I get off of work" better clarify things?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 10, 2011, 01:30:20 PM
My thread. Ignore all other answers or proceed at your own risk.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 10, 2011, 01:30:27 PM
Oh yeah. You can even say breakfast and explain that you have a crazy work shift. But sometimes, depending on how a guy is phrasing things, it sounds like a weird pick up line.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 10, 2011, 01:30:46 PM
My thread. Ignore all other answers or proceed at your own risk.
Well he could ask in person if he just wanted your opinion, couldn't he?  :-*
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 10, 2011, 01:34:54 PM
My thread. Ignore all other answers or proceed at your own risk.
Well he could ask in person if he just wanted your opinion, couldn't he?  :-*

Please don't keep reminding people that he knows me in person; it is unfair to him.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on November 10, 2011, 01:40:00 PM
I suppose this explains the pause followed by the confused "what?". I'm not typically a very social person. Anyway I need to think of something (specific - what, when, where, etc) to do now. I did end up explaining my work schedule.  :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 10, 2011, 01:42:31 PM
I suppose this explains the pause followed by the confused "what?". I'm not typically a very social person. Anyway I need to think of something (specific - what, when, where, etc) to do now. I did end up explaining my work schedule.  :)

Dude, we need to talk. We'll roll Cyrano de Dergerac style. It will be the feel good, summer blockbuster of 2012.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on November 10, 2011, 01:42:59 PM
Well he could ask in person if he just wanted your opinion, couldn't he?  :-*

This seemed more fun.

Please don't... it is unfair to him.

People might be deceived into thinking I'm a better person than what I really am, or think less of Orthonorm. Not really fair to anyone involved.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 10, 2011, 01:46:20 PM
Well he could ask in person if he just wanted your opinion, couldn't he?  :-*

This seemed more fun.

Please don't... it is unfair to him.

People might . . . think less of Orthonorm.

Impossible.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 10, 2011, 01:49:06 PM
People might be deceived into thinking I'm a better person than what I really am, or think less of Orthonorm. Not really fair to anyone involved.
Oh, Melodist.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 10, 2011, 02:22:20 PM
subbing to this filthy thread...(I need a shower)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on November 10, 2011, 03:21:11 PM
Do people still use this thread for dating advice?  ;)

I go to an all male high school and need more exposure to girls. Ideas?

This is not just an issue for men in all male schools. The answer to your question could be specific directives, but I will put this on the back burner to get to and give you the ninja level answer after I finish (sleep willing) my breaking up without guilt series.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on November 17, 2011, 12:21:11 AM
What we were we discussing again?

Oh yes, ending relationships and guilt.

Of course every situation is unique.

If you believe the above, go directly to your nearest newsstand and pick up the latest copy of O magazine.

Now given my wealth of experience and insight into the human condition there are a number of answers here.

Let's start with the ideal.

"All things find their end in their beginning."

The best way to end a relationship and mitigate the guilt starts with its beginning.

All endings are painful. They just are. But the pain of guilt has a particular quality and can stem from many missteps taken, but essentially, guilt is the pain of feeling improperly indebted to someone.

We are always in the other's debt. From them we find our very selves. In light of the other, we are. This debt, this gift can never be repaid. Thank God. For no gift should be repaid. It is pride that drives us to not want to be forever indebted to the other.

Someone once said of true gifts: they are what we can never offer ourselves, didn't want, and can never return.

So it is in our relationships with others. Relationships obviously cannot be had alone. We are not individuals. Rarely do relationships give us what we wanted for better and worse. They break our own feeble attempts to project our fantasy onto reality. They show us for who we are in all our grace and falleness. And we can never return them. For all the infantile, ritualistic attempts to cut off the other, the relationship, forever that person will have changed us forever.

This is structure of all relationships.

Sometimes out of nowhere, where we least expected it a person enters our lives and changes us immediately. No matter how much we were not looking for anything or even wanted it, we suddenly are caught up with another. Understanding the structure of the gift of a relationship that radical debt we will always carry will help to understand how to begin, and in beginning, how end the relationship without twisting that wonderful debt into the pain of guilt and free us to feel the pain love and grief.

In short we must accept: we will always owe the other something we cannot repay.

How to avoid have that feeling of indebtedness turn into guilt?

Stay tuned.







WOW!  I do not know how to put this, beautiful seems so trivial for it.  sublime!!!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on November 17, 2011, 10:33:24 AM
there is nothing better than a man who can cook.

Hey single ladies, I can do this and manage to get it right sometimes, or so I've been told.  Just putting the information out there. ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on November 17, 2011, 10:54:33 AM
there is nothing better than a man who can cook.

Hey single ladies, I can do this and manage to get it right sometimes, or so I've been told.  Just putting the information out there. ;)

No no no no NO, Melodist! Never advertise your cooking skills. If they know you can cook they will expect you to cook, all the time! Pretend to be completely helpless in the area of the kitchen. If you invite your date over for a nice romantic dinner, litter the kitchen with take-out boxes, throw her off the scent. Save any miraculous displays of cookery until your first kid is at the age where he can actually eat the food you cook.

And if, unlike me, you have any ability in the cleaning area, same rules. Mess up the living room to a tiny degree (disorganized messy, not biohazard messy) before she comes over, throw a few books on the coffee table haphazardly, hide a (clean) sock sticking partially up from a couch cushion, and maybe leave a few DVDs sitting next to the player. 

Again, after you have a kid or two and they're out of diapers, then you start displaying your OCD side. But don't set expectation levels high before that kid. Your place will NEVER be completely clean when babies are around, but if you can clean well she will expect it to be.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 17, 2011, 11:09:25 AM
AHEM! I would not expect a man to cook all of the time, but that is just me. In fact, my husband can cook but he is of the school that once it tastes good, he's done improving on the dish. No no no.

I love the little break I get when I'm overwhelmed by work, and he has some dishes that I won't even attempt, because his are great, but as a control freak and overall perfectionist, there is no way I'm letting him cook every single time. ;)

But it is a big plus to know that a man CAN clean, cook, whatever without whining. That in itself is a +100.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on November 17, 2011, 11:21:25 AM
AHEM! I would not expect a man to cook all of the time, but that is just me. In fact, my husband can cook but he is of the school that once it tastes good, he's done improving on the dish. No no no.

I love the little break I get when I'm overwhelmed by work, and he has some dishes that I won't even attempt, because his are great, but as a control freak and overall perfectionist, there is no way I'm letting him cook every single time. ;)

But it is a big plus to know that a man CAN clean, cook, whatever without whining. That in itself is a +100.



Haven't we already established in the Favorite Games thread that you are one of the exceptions that proves the rule? Advice that applies to only .001% of women is not good advice (unless you're specifically looking for that .001%, in which case, good luck!).

Moderation is the key- display SOME ability in these areas, enough so that women know they won't have to babysit you all the time, without going overboard.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TITL on November 17, 2011, 11:47:21 AM
AHEM! I would not expect a man to cook all of the time, but that is just me. In fact, my husband can cook but he is of the school that once it tastes good, he's done improving on the dish. No no no.

I love the little break I get when I'm overwhelmed by work, and he has some dishes that I won't even attempt, because his are great, but as a control freak and overall perfectionist, there is no way I'm letting him cook every single time. ;)

But it is a big plus to know that a man CAN clean, cook, whatever without whining. That in itself is a +100.



Haven't we already established in the Favorite Games thread that you are one of the exceptions that proves the rule? Advice that applies to only .001% of women is not good advice (unless you're specifically looking for that .001%, in which case, good luck!).

Moderation is the key- display SOME ability in these areas, enough so that women know they won't have to babysit you all the time, without going overboard.

.002%. I agree with IsmiLiora!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 17, 2011, 12:19:43 PM
Whoo, TITL!!!  :laugh:

I think that it also depends on the woman's cooking abilities. If she is lazy and doesn't know how to cook, sure, she might see it as an out. But my friends would love their partner to be in the kitchen with them.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on November 17, 2011, 12:42:10 PM
Whoo, TITL!!!  :laugh:

I think that it also depends on the woman's cooking abilities. If she is lazy and doesn't know how to cook, sure, she might see it as an out. But my friends would love their partner to be in the kitchen with them.

Well, cooking skills are rare in women these days. In the past 12 years I've only met two women who can actually cook, and both of those had actually gone to cooking school to be chefs. As their room-mate I thought it would be awesome- after all, one of my first room-mates had gone to bar-tending school and always brought homework home... alas, these girls didn't.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: HandmaidenofGod on November 17, 2011, 01:03:36 PM
Why is there all this discussion as if cooking and cleaning must all be one sided? It is not some new fangled feminist idealogy, but rather time-tested Orthodox theology that teaches us that marriage is a partnership. (That is why both the man and woman are crowned King and Queen of their household in the crowning ceremony.)

In other words, that both parties should help in domestic duties. If one party is stronger in a particular skill, then the other party should be happy to compensate in other areas.

For any man or woman to try to capitalize on a talent for their own benefit is selfish, and a recipe for relationship disaster.

To play these games of "I'm not going to keep my apartment too clean when she comes over" or "I'm not going to cook when she comes over" is silly.

If the person you are interested in truly is "patient, kind, is not self-seeking, easily angered, or keeps no record of wrongs" (1 Cor 13:4-7), then they will not be looking out for THEIR best interests, but for the interests of the relationship.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TITL on November 17, 2011, 01:06:09 PM
Whoo, TITL!!!  :laugh:

I think that it also depends on the woman's cooking abilities. If she is lazy and doesn't know how to cook, sure, she might see it as an out. But my friends would love their partner to be in the kitchen with them.

Well, cooking skills are rare in women these days. In the past 12 years I've only met two women who can actually cook, and both of those had actually gone to cooking school to be chefs. As their room-mate I thought it would be awesome- after all, one of my first room-mates had gone to bar-tending school and always brought homework home... alas, these girls didn't.

You had girl roommates?!  :o
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 17, 2011, 01:08:37 PM
Thanks for that, Handmaiden! I do agree that when it's time for serious relationships, the game playing has got to stop, as much as it possibly can. It's a good thing to have both people competent at as much as possible...husband and I agree that if he's out of work and I'm working, then he'll do the cleaning, cooking, etc. etc.  And when I was out of work and he was working, I did everything in the house. Since we both work, we split it and there has been no grumbling so far.*

A friend of mine has a husband that is unemployed and he just doesn't want to do anything domestic. So what does he do? Just sit around and file applications all day while the dishes pile up? Not saying that this only goes for guys. FR is right in that less and less women are adept at cooking or other domestic tasks. I didn't learn until I was in college. Both parties should step up to the plate and be honest about their strengths and weaknesses.

But that would be boring, wouldn't it? ;)

*Grumbling about chores, I mean. Grumbling about other things, most definitely.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TITL on November 17, 2011, 01:13:49 PM
I live with my parents, and I still cook.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 17, 2011, 01:18:31 PM
I live with my parents, and I still cook.
Good for you!

My mother was such an excellent cook that even though she worked 40+ hours a week and had to commute for 3 hours a day, it was understood that we did not cook unless it was to cook for ourselves. Everyone, from my father, my siblings, and I, right down to my relatives who lived with us, were spoiled and didn't want to eat anything but her cooking. I should have just rebelled and started cooking! One of my regrets. :(
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: CoptoGeek on November 17, 2011, 01:22:54 PM
In other words, that both parties should help in domestic duties. If one party is stronger in a particular skill, then the other party should be happy to compensate in other areas.

Exactly. That's why I use the remote control & DVR and the mrs cooks dinner  :D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TITL on November 17, 2011, 01:23:47 PM
Cooking is fun (when I'm in the mood), but I guess I have an advantage over others cause my mom is only home on the weekends (my dad is always working), and starving isn't an option in this house! ;)

So it's forced upon me.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on November 17, 2011, 02:02:27 PM
Why is there all this discussion as if cooking and cleaning must all be one sided? It is not some new fangled feminist idealogy, but rather time-tested Orthodox theology that teaches us that marriage is a partnership. (That is why both the man and woman are crowned King and Queen of their household in the crowning ceremony.)

In other words, that both parties should help in domestic duties. If one party is stronger in a particular skill, then the other party should be happy to compensate in other areas.

For any man or woman to try to capitalize on a talent for their own benefit is selfish, and a recipe for relationship disaster.

To play these games of "I'm not going to keep my apartment too clean when she comes over" or "I'm not going to cook when she comes over" is silly.

If the person you are interested in truly is "patient, kind, is not self-seeking, easily angered, or keeps no record of wrongs" (1 Cor 13:4-7), then they will not be looking out for THEIR best interests, but for the interests of the relationship.

I'm sorry, I thought this thread was understood to be mainly tongue-in-cheek. There was a whole three pages about goat-to-fiance purchase rates, after all.

Well, cooking skills are rare in women these days. In the past 12 years I've only met two women who can actually cook, and both of those had actually gone to cooking school to be chefs. As their room-mate I thought it would be awesome- after all, one of my first room-mates had gone to bar-tending school and always brought homework home... alas, these girls didn't.

You had girl roommates?!  :o

I wasn't always Orthodox. But in the interests of full disclosure, there was never any hanky-panky going on with the room-mates (hanky-panky in my un-illumined days being a strictly outside the home thing).
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: CoptoGeek on November 17, 2011, 02:29:31 PM
I'm sorry, I thought this thread was understood to be mainly tongue-in-cheek. There was a whole three pages about goat-to-fiance purchase rates, after all.

What, you guys were only kidding about that?  No wonder Western marriages don't last...I mean nothing says commitment like exchanged livestock.  ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on November 17, 2011, 02:37:07 PM
I'm sorry, I thought this thread was understood to be mainly tongue-in-cheek. There was a whole three pages about goat-to-fiance purchase rates, after all.

What, you guys were only kidding about that?  No wonder Western marriages don't last...I mean nothing says commitment like exchanged livestock.  ;D

.... Until your wife finds out you bargained her father down to one goat.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on November 17, 2011, 02:44:06 PM
I'm sorry, I thought this thread was understood to be mainly tongue-in-cheek. There was a whole three pages about goat-to-fiance purchase rates, after all.

What, you guys were only kidding about that?  No wonder Western marriages don't last...I mean nothing says commitment like exchanged livestock.  ;D

I assure you, there was no kidding on my part...  I got my GF for a Parrot and a Cat.  There's some bargain hunting for you.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: CoptoGeek on November 17, 2011, 02:45:12 PM
.... Until your wife finds out you bargained her father down to one goat.

It's called driving a bargain, a timeless tradition. My friend, it would be dishonorable to do otherwise.

OK, enough about livestock. Back to Orthonorm's apothegmatic words. We await thee, my liege...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IsmiLiora on November 17, 2011, 02:56:12 PM
I'm sorry, I thought this thread was understood to be mainly tongue-in-cheek. There was a whole three pages about goat-to-fiance purchase rates, after all.

What, you guys were only kidding about that?  No wonder Western marriages don't last...I mean nothing says commitment like exchanged livestock.  ;D

I assure you, there was no kidding on my part...  I got my GF for a Parrot and a Cat.  There's some bargain hunting for you.
Mr. Ismi got me for free. :( If it weren't for you wise men, I wouldn't have known about this dowry thing. Thanks for breeding a lifetime of resentment in our one-year marriage.



 :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on November 17, 2011, 03:56:44 PM
I'm sorry, I thought this thread was understood to be mainly tongue-in-cheek. There was a whole three pages about goat-to-fiance purchase rates, after all.

What, you guys were only kidding about that?  No wonder Western marriages don't last...I mean nothing says commitment like exchanged livestock.  ;D

I assure you, there was no kidding on my part...  I got my GF for a Parrot and a Cat.  There's some bargain hunting for you.
Mr. Ismi got me for free. :( If it weren't for you wise men, I wouldn't have known about this dowry thing. Thanks for breeding a lifetime of resentment in our one-year marriage.



 :P

Look on the bright side- the only people cheated out of any livestock (or livestock's worth of money) were your parents. More livestock for you and your hubby to share in your wedded bliss.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on November 17, 2011, 10:30:15 PM
I assure you, there was no kidding on my part...  I got my GF for a Parrot and a Cat.  There's some bargain hunting for you.
Mr. Ismi got me for free. :( If it weren't for you wise men, I wouldn't have known about this dowry thing. Thanks for breeding a lifetime of resentment in our one-year marriage.

 :P

Yeah there's girls out there worth multiple camels, and your parents couldn't even get a parrot and a cat out of you. You shouldn't resent your husband though, he's just knows how to bargain. It's your parents that settled for it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on November 17, 2011, 11:07:40 PM
What we were we discussing again?

Oh yes, ending relationships and guilt.

Of course every situation is unique.

If you believe the above, go directly to your nearest newsstand and pick up the latest copy of O magazine.

Now given my wealth of experience and insight into the human condition there are a number of answers here.

Let's start with the ideal.

"All things find their end in their beginning."

The best way to end a relationship and mitigate the guilt starts with its beginning.

All endings are painful. They just are. But the pain of guilt has a particular quality and can stem from many missteps taken, but essentially, guilt is the pain of feeling improperly indebted to someone.

We are always in the other's debt. From them we find our very selves. In light of the other, we are. This debt, this gift can never be repaid. Thank God. For no gift should be repaid. It is pride that drives us to not want to be forever indebted to the other.

Someone once said of true gifts: they are what we can never offer ourselves, didn't want, and can never return.

So it is in our relationships with others. Relationships obviously cannot be had alone. We are not individuals. Rarely do relationships give us what we wanted for better and worse. They break our own feeble attempts to project our fantasy onto reality. They show us for who we are in all our grace and falleness. And we can never return them. For all the infantile, ritualistic attempts to cut off the other, the relationship, forever that person will have changed us forever.

This is structure of all relationships.

Sometimes out of nowhere, where we least expected it a person enters our lives and changes us immediately. No matter how much we were not looking for anything or even wanted it, we suddenly are caught up with another. Understanding the structure of the gift of a relationship that radical debt we will always carry will help to understand how to begin, and in beginning, how end the relationship without twisting that wonderful debt into the pain of guilt and free us to feel the pain love and grief.

In short we must accept: we will always owe the other something we cannot repay.

How to avoid have that feeling of indebtedness turn into guilt?

Stay tuned.







After this relationship, I'm seriously done dating/relationship wise. Maybe for good, maybe not.

I seriously am exhausted. That's not to say I have always been relationship oriented, but I seriously need to take care of myself first priority.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on November 18, 2011, 02:12:17 AM
What we were we discussing again?

Oh yes, ending relationships and guilt.

Of course every situation is unique.

If you believe the above, go directly to your nearest newsstand and pick up the latest copy of O magazine.

Now given my wealth of experience and insight into the human condition there are a number of answers here.

Let's start with the ideal.

"All things find their end in their beginning."

The best way to end a relationship and mitigate the guilt starts with its beginning.

All endings are painful. They just are. But the pain of guilt has a particular quality and can stem from many missteps taken, but essentially, guilt is the pain of feeling improperly indebted to someone.

We are always in the other's debt. From them we find our very selves. In light of the other, we are. This debt, this gift can never be repaid. Thank God. For no gift should be repaid. It is pride that drives us to not want to be forever indebted to the other.

Someone once said of true gifts: they are what we can never offer ourselves, didn't want, and can never return.

So it is in our relationships with others. Relationships obviously cannot be had alone. We are not individuals. Rarely do relationships give us what we wanted for better and worse. They break our own feeble attempts to project our fantasy onto reality. They show us for who we are in all our grace and falleness. And we can never return them. For all the infantile, ritualistic attempts to cut off the other, the relationship, forever that person will have changed us forever.

This is structure of all relationships.

Sometimes out of nowhere, where we least expected it a person enters our lives and changes us immediately. No matter how much we were not looking for anything or even wanted it, we suddenly are caught up with another. Understanding the structure of the gift of a relationship that radical debt we will always carry will help to understand how to begin, and in beginning, how end the relationship without twisting that wonderful debt into the pain of guilt and free us to feel the pain love and grief.

In short we must accept: we will always owe the other something we cannot repay.

How to avoid have that feeling of indebtedness turn into guilt?

Stay tuned.







After this relationship, I'm seriously done dating/relationship wise. Maybe for good, maybe not.

I seriously am exhausted. That's not to say I have always been relationship oriented, but I seriously need to take care of myself first priority.

I feel ya, bro.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on November 18, 2011, 02:25:13 AM
I feel ya, bro.
He said he doesn't want another relationship.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on November 18, 2011, 02:38:24 AM
I feel ya, bro.
He said he doesn't want another relationship.

Would you bug off!  You're cramping my style!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on November 18, 2011, 02:39:05 AM
lol
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on November 18, 2011, 02:57:38 AM
I feel ya, bro.
He said he doesn't want another relationship.

Would you bug off!  You're cramping my style!

ROFL WOW
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on November 18, 2011, 10:46:05 AM
I feel ya, bro.
He said he doesn't want another relationship.

Would you bug off!  You're cramping my style!

ROFL WOW

Perhaps, "I feel for you, bro" would have come off better.  But then again, maybe not.  There really isn't a straight way of saying bro.  Come to think of it, that entire sentence was full of sympathy, that in and of itself is a gay trait.

Oh crap.  I need to go to confession...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Babalon on November 19, 2011, 10:40:04 PM
I feel ya, bro.
He said he doesn't want another relationship.

Would you bug off!  You're cramping my style!

ROFL WOW

Perhaps, "I feel for you, bro" would have come off better.  But then again, maybe not.  There really isn't a straight way of saying bro.  Come to think of it, that entire sentence was full of sympathy, that in and of itself is a gay trait.

Oh crap.  I need to go to confession...

Oh come off it you! It's not like he said this. (http://partner-ad.photobucket.com/albums/c11/miabiboy_14/GIFs%20And%20Funny%20Stuff/ComeAtMeBroSavedByTheBell.jpg)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on January 19, 2012, 02:32:05 AM
wait wut?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Babalon on January 19, 2012, 02:54:51 AM
^If it's in regards to my above hyperlink, i can assure you that there WAS a clever picture in the the vein of this discussion.

I don't remember what it was though, and it would appear that the link is dead.....


So now things are just awkward.  :-X
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on January 19, 2012, 10:33:00 AM
^If it's in regards to my above hyperlink, i can assure you that there WAS a clever picture in the the vein of this discussion.

I don't remember what it was though, and it would appear that the link is dead.....


So now things are just awkward.  :-X

Just look up "Hommies over Hoes" by Gangstalicious.  That should make things worse...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on January 19, 2012, 05:18:15 PM
^If it's in regards to my above hyperlink, i can assure you that there WAS a clever picture in the the vein of this discussion.

I don't remember what it was though, and it would appear that the link is dead.....


So now things are just awkward.  :-X

Oh, sorry about that. No, actually I had posted something and then decided that it shouldn't have been posted, so I went back to edit the post... but I didn't know what to put, so I just said what is there now. :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on January 19, 2012, 11:47:07 PM
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on January 20, 2012, 12:20:02 AM
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?

Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on January 20, 2012, 09:38:59 AM
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?

Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.

I puked a little in my mouth.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on January 23, 2012, 04:50:47 PM
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?

Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
Why do I feel like I just jumped in front of a bus?

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TheMathematician on January 23, 2012, 04:52:29 PM
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?

Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
Why do I feel like I just jumped in front of a bus?

PP
lay off the bourbon
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on January 23, 2012, 04:58:17 PM
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?

Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
Why do I feel like I just jumped in front of a bus?

PP
lay off the bourbon
Good advice :)

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on January 23, 2012, 05:24:33 PM
No way! That's the worst advice ever. I just attended my grandfather's 90th birthday over New Years' weekend. His secret to long life? Quote: "Two bourbons a day, every day." And he didn't say this from a wheelchair, or with a mumble, or while pushing around one of those old-person miniature shopping cart/walker things through the isles of a dollar store. He said it while driving his Cadillac to the clubhouse of his favorite golf course, where he busted the chops of his 92-95 year old friends for being "old", while adding years to his life at the free bar and then taking them off again with three different kinds of cake. (I think he's secretly that guy from the Dos Equis commercial, wearing an old white guy mask.)

Two bourbons a day, every day. I don't drink, but maybe I should start...  :-\
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Cavaradossi on January 23, 2012, 05:47:24 PM
No way! That's the worst advice ever. I just attended my grandfather's 90th birthday over New Years' weekend. His secret to long life? Quote: "Two bourbons a day, every day." And he didn't say this from a wheelchair, or with a mumble, or while pushing around one of those old-person miniature shopping cart/walker things through the isles of a dollar store. He said it while driving his Cadillac to the clubhouse of his favorite golf course, where he busted the chops of his 92-95 year old friends for being "old", while adding years to his life at the free bar and then taking them off again with three different kinds of cake. (I think he's secretly that guy from the Dos Equis commercial, wearing an old white guy mask.)

Two bourbons a day, every day. I don't drink, but maybe I should start...  :-\

I think being told you need to lay off the bourbon probably means that for you two is just getting started. :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on January 23, 2012, 05:54:21 PM
No way! That's the worst advice ever. I just attended my grandfather's 90th birthday over New Years' weekend. His secret to long life? Quote: "Two bourbons a day, every day." And he didn't say this from a wheelchair, or with a mumble, or while pushing around one of those old-person miniature shopping cart/walker things through the isles of a dollar store. He said it while driving his Cadillac to the clubhouse of his favorite golf course, where he busted the chops of his 92-95 year old friends for being "old", while adding years to his life at the free bar and then taking them off again with three different kinds of cake. (I think he's secretly that guy from the Dos Equis commercial, wearing an old white guy mask.)

Two bourbons a day, every day. I don't drink, but maybe I should start...  :-\

I think being told you need to lay off the bourbon probably means that for you two is just getting started. :P

Im actually a rum guy but......

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on March 17, 2012, 07:31:23 PM
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on March 17, 2012, 07:40:20 PM
lol
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on March 17, 2012, 07:44:58 PM
Where is our saintly emporer to guide us into the Promised Land of women who wait hand and foot?

Until Orthonorm returns I shall be the substitute.  Please direct all your relationship queries to me.  I will fill your heads with wisdom and insight.  Ovid was my teacher and Catullus my muse.

Respectable ladies, the kind who wear hairbands and ankle-length skirts are hereby warned off.
Safe love, legitimate liaisons will be my theme.  This lesson breaks no taboos.

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
Why do I feel like I just jumped in front of a bus?

PP

Not a fan of Ovid?  (I assure you, I am in no way corny, or poetic, enough to have come up with any of that!)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: John Ward on March 17, 2012, 07:45:57 PM
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?

I had to try really hard not to spit up the coke I had just drank when I read this.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on March 17, 2012, 07:52:36 PM
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?

Look, you did the right thing, it's just going to take a while for it to sink in with her.  See, modern scientists have proven that a woman's brain is no larger than that of a squirrel's.  So basically, anything more complex than gaining weight or making nests out of leaves is going to give them some problems and will take a lot of rote memorization to overcome.  What I suggest, is that you start going on walks with her.  This will help her to shed some of that ghastly belly fat and start making her legs look more statuesque and less like several cuts of unboiled corned beef.  All the while you should be using this to drive in to her brain that she is overweight and will be worthless to you and to society until she takes care of it.  You should follow her around with a tuba while she walks and play fat people music.  This should provide her with the necessary stimulation that even her brain will be able to pick up on.  I assure you, after you have made her into a useful, productive, and not to mention skinny member of society, she will feel better, you will feel more proud of her, and your house will be cleaner.  Heck, it will probably save money in the long run as well, since when she cooks she will only need to make enough for you, since all any decent woman eats are yogurt and those card-board ration bars.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesRottnek on March 17, 2012, 10:49:14 PM
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?

I hope that this is a joke; if not, then you are quite sad.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on March 17, 2012, 10:55:43 PM
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?

Look, you did the right thing, it's just going to take a while for it to sink in with her.  See, modern scientists have proven that a woman's brain is no larger than that of a squirrel's.  So basically, anything more complex than gaining weight or making nests out of leaves is going to give them some problems and will take a lot of rote memorization to overcome.  What I suggest, is that you start going on walks with her.  This will help her to shed some of that ghastly belly fat and start making her legs look more statuesque and less like several cuts of unboiled corned beef.  All the while you should be using this to drive in to her brain that she is overweight and will be worthless to you and to society until she takes care of it.  You should follow her around with a tuba while she walks and play fat people music.  This should provide her with the necessary stimulation that even her brain will be able to pick up on.  I assure you, after you have made her into a useful, productive, and not to mention skinny member of society, she will feel better, you will feel more proud of her, and your house will be cleaner.  Heck, it will probably save money in the long run as well, since when she cooks she will only need to make enough for you, since all any decent woman eats are yogurt and those card-board ration bars.

Tries to find Vamrat's girlfriend's email address to send the above advice . . .
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on March 17, 2012, 10:56:29 PM
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?

I hope that this is a joke; if not, then you are quite sad.

I see that you have not spent much time on this thread.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesRottnek on March 18, 2012, 01:25:50 AM
I have a new question for orthonorm (or anyone else): my girlfriend was over the other night and out of the blue she asked if she was fat. Well, she is a bit on the hefty side, so it was kinda awkward. But she's always talking about honesty and good communication and such, so I just--as gently as I could--explained that she could stand to lose a few pounds, and that if she wanted to come to the gym with me that'd be a great thing to do together. Well, that didn't go over so well. She started crying and mumbling something about how all I care about is thin girls with big boobs, which is silly since I just watch shows like project runway for the creative-competitive action, and yeah I watch women's volleyball and cheerleading and stuff, but that's just because I like ESPN. And I barely even look at those websites hardly at all now. Anyway, so she says that I just use her and will dump her when someone thinner comes along and all this other stuff. What do I say? What should I do? Maybe buy her a gym membership? They're having a biggest loser competition at the gym starting next month, should I secretly sign her up?

I hope that this is a joke; if not, then you are quite sad.

I see that you have not spent much time on this thread.

I have not.  But I realized about 45 seconds after I hit 'post' that this was a joke...damn this post moderation.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 24, 2012, 01:12:01 AM
I really need a "How to Breakup without issues" thread.

Alright so I've been very unhappy as of late, and the relationship between myself and my girlfriend is pretty much over. It's my fault because I have completely lost all interest in her and really want to move on, be on my own, etc.

The problem is I fear that she may be suicidal once I say we are through. She will be destroyed by it, and I'm not saying that out of some vanity, but that's honestly the truth.

But the biggest issue is her friends and a certain family member that would do any harm they could towards me if I was to hurt her. In fact her brother would try and find a way to have me killed. No that's not a joke and I'm not saying that just to get more pity from anyone, but this guy has been serious about it in the past towards other individuals and does not even care if he ends up in jail.

I am desperately trying to find a new job out of this state so I don't have to face any of these issues and no one will know where I am residing. The last thing I need in my life is more drama and ridiculousness. My stress level is through the roof right now.

I truly don't know what to do. I've honestly never had to break up with anyone in my life before, but I think it's time to end it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on March 24, 2012, 08:38:52 AM
I really need a "How to Breakup without issues" thread.

Alright so I've been very unhappy as of late, and the relationship between myself and my girlfriend is pretty much over. It's my fault because I have completely lost all interest in her and really want to move on, be on my own, etc.

The problem is I fear that she may be suicidal once I say we are through. She will be destroyed by it, and I'm not saying that out of some vanity, but that's honestly the truth.

But the biggest issue is her friends and a certain family member that would do any harm they could towards me if I was to hurt her. In fact her brother would try and find a way to have me killed. No that's not a joke and I'm not saying that just to get more pity from anyone, but this guy has been serious about it in the past towards other individuals and does not even care if he ends up in jail.

I am desperately trying to find a new job out of this state so I don't have to face any of these issues and no one will know where I am residing. The last thing I need in my life is more drama and ridiculousness. My stress level is through the roof right now.

I truly don't know what to do. I've honestly never had to break up with anyone in my life before, but I think it's time to end it.

Find someone who knows how to use Photoshop real well.  Then have some pictures 'shopped with her brother and a goat.  Break up with her, and release the 'shopped photos at the same time.  If you are lucky, they both will kill themselves and then your problems are over (at least until the last judgment, but hey, you have time to repent).

And to make things more clear, the photo below is NOT what I mean by 'shopping a picture with him and a goat.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 24, 2012, 05:22:49 PM
Haha that's great. And I know how to use Photoshop real well to pull it off.

God why can't I just end this. Ugh.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 28, 2012, 12:27:00 AM
Ok so I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and since we live in the 21st century (whatever that means) I'm curious what exactly is the best way to find great women?

Has the search migrated to Facebook and these dating sites, or is more of the chance encounter in person at whatever venue, be it school, work, a bar, etc.

Also can someone clear up whether its a myth or not that if you want to find a nice woman to date and eventually marry you don't go to places like a bar to find them.'

EDIT: I just wanted to say Asteriktos' posts are a goldmine. Someone needs to publish them ASAP.

EDIT DOS: Do not assume I am even thinking about dating/relationships/whatever. I'm mildly curious about the above.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on March 28, 2012, 01:00:22 AM
I'm not an expert in these matters, but the question about the bar intrigues me as well. A few years ago I was briefly seeing a therapist to deal with some of my (being a jerk) issues and when he asked about my feelings on such things I said something like "I don't know; I guess I wouldn't mind meeting someone, but I don't really know where to go, and I would feel like a loser if I met some woman in a bar or some place like that..."

He said "uh huh" in a vaguely disapproving tone, which kind of made me mad since, y'know, I was paying him to listen and not judge, so I asked him "what?" and he straightened up and said "Nothing...I met my wife at a bar is all. We've been married for over 30 years."

I don't have an opinion on such things anymore.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 28, 2012, 01:13:09 AM
But 30 years ago what was the bar scene like? It's not the trash and filth you see today, I bet.

If I was wanting to date I'd might hit up some poetry readings or something along those lines. Intelligence in a woman is probably my biggest turn on.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesRottnek on March 28, 2012, 01:17:35 AM
I'm not an expert in these matters, but the question about the bar intrigues me as well. A few years ago I was briefly seeing a therapist to deal with some of my (being a jerk) issues and when he asked about my feelings on such things I said something like "I don't know; I guess I wouldn't mind meeting someone, but I don't really know where to go, and I would feel like a loser if I met some woman in a bar or some place like that..."

He said "uh huh" in a vaguely disapproving tone, which kind of made me mad since, y'know, I was paying him to listen and not judge, so I asked him "what?" and he straightened up and said "Nothing...I met my wife at a bar is all. We've been married for over 30 years."

I don't have an opinion on such things anymore.

As long as it's not a topless bar...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 28, 2012, 04:31:23 AM
I've actually met a wonderful girl who was a stripper. I wouldn't mind dating or even marrying one. orthonorm was talking to me about how as men we have insecurities, but I can tell you with a straight face that I would have no insecurities with a stripper. Or even if I was dating a porn star. Both those professions would not make me worried/insecure one bit. I kinda wish I was lying, but that's the honest truth.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on March 28, 2012, 06:15:07 AM
Why do women want to talk so much and where can I meet an Orthodox girl my age who's at least decently attractive, intelligent and could actually hold her weight in a deep, philosophical discussion unlike so many people who just don't care? Also, why do women like to make us jealous every once in a while by allowing another male to flirt with them, but God forbid, the moment some female lad starts flirting with us they go ballistic?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 28, 2012, 06:49:59 AM
Why do women want to talk so much
The answer to your question is in this sentence.

Quote
and where can I meet an Orthodox girl my age who's at least decently attractive, intelligent and could actually hold her weight in a deep, philosophical discussion unlike so many people who just don't care?
Is this your next television pilot pitch on the most elusive woman in the world?

Quote
Also, why do women like to make us jealous every once in a while by allowing another male to flirt with them, but God forbid, the moment some female lad starts flirting with us they go ballistic?
I've never had a woman do that to me. If they did, I got a laundry list of contacts that'll end that real quick.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on March 28, 2012, 08:45:35 AM
Quote
Why do women want to talk so much
because they have alot to talk about.

Quote
where can I meet an Orthodox girl my age who's at least decently attractive, intelligent and could actually hold her weight in a deep, philosophical discussion unlike so many people who just don't care?
Umm......the library maybe? Ummm....wow....good question. I just happened to luck out :)

Quote
Also, why do women like to make us jealous every once in a while by allowing another male to flirt with them, but God forbid, the moment some female lad starts flirting with us they go ballistic?
IMHO this is because their signifigant other does not give them enough attention, so it makes them feel good when men show them attention. I say this because I give my wife alot of attention (we also ENJOY each other's company) and hence, she does not let men flirt with her.

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on March 28, 2012, 09:34:15 AM
Why do women want to talk so much and where can I meet an Orthodox girl my age who's at least decently attractive, intelligent and could actually hold her weight in a deep, philosophical discussion unlike so many people who just don't care? Also, why do women like to make us jealous every once in a while by allowing another male to flirt with them, but God forbid, the moment some female lad starts flirting with us they go ballistic?

For your second question, I really don't have an answer.  I know my former GF always went ballistic when I glanced at another nice looking girl, but I generally just dismissed it. 

As for your first question, I would suggest you go to Alaska and swim west a bit.  But then, you've already been nagged to death on another thread about this.  Meeting an Orthodox woman is hard.  You can read my complaints in plenty of threads on here about their scarcity so I won't trouble you anymore.  As for all the criteria, I have never seen an ugly Orthodox woman.  I'm sure you can find one somewhere, but I've never seen one.  (Note, I have seen MANY Orthodox women, just not unmarried ones.  Caveat 2 - I am referring to ones specifically in the vicinity of my age range.  I don't have a thing for grannies...excuse me, babushki, so I am not including them in my attractiveness quotient.)  Intelligent - go back to Alaska and swim to the west.  I have been searching and searching for an uneducated Russian woman.  Not that I have an interest in stupid women, it's just kinda like the four leaved clover thing.  It doesn't really do anything useful, but it's an accomplishment to say you found one.

As for conversations, I was at a dinner with a number of Russian friends last night, and after getting one of the words translated for me, I gathered that they were talking about how Americans are not good conversationalists!  I was somewhat offended, but only gay people and women are capable of being offended so I kept it to myself.  I was silent pretty much the whole night though when I did try and say a few things (with numerous corrections) they did mention that my accent is almost perfect.  So yeah, Russians seem to enjoy good conversation, it's just that when you get any number of them together they aren't going to speak English just for your sake.

With conversations, make sure you listen to what she has to say and try not to just talk about your interests.  I've had this problem my entire life and have been working on correcting it.  The current girl I am seeing is half deaf, but she can read lips, and honestly, some of the best conversations I have had in my life have been with her...so needless to say I am hoping she doesn't dump me.  What I am trying to say is, you don't know where a good conversationalist is going to pop up, but you need to let her do some of the talking as well (and by some I mean most of it).
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on March 28, 2012, 10:02:13 AM
Ok so I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and since we live in the 21st century (whatever that means) I'm curious what exactly is the best way to find great women?

Has the search migrated to Facebook and these dating sites, or is more of the chance encounter in person at whatever venue, be it school, work, a bar, etc.

Also can someone clear up whether its a myth or not that if you want to find a nice woman to date and eventually marry you don't go to places like a bar to find them.'

EDIT: I just wanted to say Asteriktos' posts are a goldmine. Someone needs to publish them ASAP.

EDIT DOS: Do not assume I am even thinking about dating/relationships/whatever. I'm mildly curious about the above.

On finding women folk at the bar - I've never done it.  I've heard that it's a great place for a one night stand, and know people who pulled off that coup, but that's not my modus operandi.  If I wasn't on Xanax I'd do a bit of research and let you know, but I'm not supposed to mix it with alcohol.

Dating online - for all it's problems this has been the best method for me.  Timing has a lot to do with whether or not you will have a relationship.  If you meet a girl and she is not ready or interested at that moment, you've got little chance.  At least with online dating you can assume that they are looking for a relationship. Also, if you are like me and have trouble meeting women, then this is as good a place as any to start.

Now that I have extolled the virtues of online dating, let me tell you about the crap.  (Oh, and before I go on, my credentials - every date I have been on has been with someone I met online, with one exception, but she was really just a good friend going through a crappy break up and I was mostly going out with her to help her get her mind off of it.  It never went anywhere after that.  But other than that one instance, I have spent a lot of time wading through it and have a good idea as to what I am talking about.)

Basically, a wise man once referred to online dating as searching through a 50 gallon drum full of feces of varying viscosity trying to search for one small nugget of gold.  (Oh, and that wise man was in fact me.)  That's pretty much it.  Most of the women on there, at least in my area, are stuck up b***hes with one glamorous photograph from when they were five years younger and forty pounds lighter and who wouldn't give any guy short of Johnny Depp or Brad Pitt a second look.  And you know what, that's fine by me, because these ones are pretty easy to spot.  (Pay special attention for the "duck lips".  You know what I mean.  Stay away from her.  She's stuck up and likely has a venereal disease.) 
The worst of the worst aside, it's really hard to get women to respond to you.  Don't so any of that "winking" BS.  I only do that if there is a girl who is sub par on the beauty side but seems like she has a good personality or at least is desperate.  Then the wink is my way of saying, "if you put the effort into getting the ball rolling I'll probably respond, but there is no way in hell I'm going to get rejected by you".  The best thing you can do is perfect your profile, in fact make two profiles, one as a man and one as a woman so you can use the female profile to look at your competition.  About 90% of the women on dating sites are pretty shallow and/or vapid so as long as you don't include a photo, writing a female profile is pretty easy.  But yes, perfect your profile, get a few decent photos of yourself (and you might either invest in a professional photographer or a friend with a decent camera because the reversed cell phone photos really aren't all that good).  Then just wait.  Every couple of years a woman might like your profile and send you an email.  This is actually the only way I've ever gotten to the dating phase with a woman, is if she came to me first.  Most of them, if you come to them they get a boost of pride and then get picky.  If they are just spamming out email out of desperation, when you get back to them with a well thought out email, they tend to be more receptive.

If you want anymore online dating advice, I am always willing to help!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Melodist on March 28, 2012, 01:37:42 PM
On finding women folk at the bar - I've never done it.  I've heard that it's a great place for a one night stand

FWIW, I've known more than one married couple who's story begins as "(The other person) was supposed to be a one night stand".
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on March 28, 2012, 01:49:56 PM
For your edification, inspiration, and most likely simply for your amusement, let old Asteriktos explain how things worked for him the first time around (this is all true)...

I met a girl on an orthodox yahoo email discussion group. We agreed to meet in a chat room so we could talk. After dropping about 24 hints (not exaggerating) I finally realised that she wanted me to ask her out, so I did. We began dating, though since she lived about 90 miles away from me we only met about once a week in person, and talked online or on the phone the rest of the week. After about 2 1/2 months of dating a marriage proposal was made. By her. Online. I know what you're thinking: "Justin! that's amazing! because when I think about how I want things to go, that's exactly what goes through my mind!"  True, true. About nine months later we found ourselves together in a homeless shelter (the reasons aren't relevant to this discussion  ;D ), and eventually got an apartment together. But living together is like the uber-ultra-mega-sin, so we didn't like that situation. At the beginning of December we asked our priest to move the marriage up from the following spring/summer to... well... December. He agreed. We got married on a budget of about $1000, which was itself a wedding present. We were married on Dec. 28th, the 1 year anniversary of our first date. And we all lived happily ever after (until we separated 7 years later and then she went and died). So I guess what I'm saying is... um... what am I saying?  Oh yeah... you never know how things will work out. So... good luck!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on March 28, 2012, 02:54:40 PM
All right, thank you folks on the advice on how to get a girl. Now I just need help in one more area. How do you get over a crazy girl who friendzoned you, used you, led you on and somehow kept you under her control for four years? I'm so used to being under her control that I am not used to this freedom and I can't adapt to the fact that I am actually free and can search for another woman.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on March 28, 2012, 03:06:59 PM
All right, thank you folks on the advice on how to get a girl. Now I just need help in one more area. How do you get over a crazy girl who friendzoned you, used you, led you on and somehow kept you under her control for four years? I'm so used to being under her control that I am not used to this freedom and I can't adapt to the fact that I am actually free and can search for another woman.

Not being mean, voice of experience, and all that:

You stop blaming her for the fact that you were not completely honest in your intentions (in order for you to be "friendzoned" it must mean you were not ok with just being friends- you should have made this clear from the outset and broke things off at the point she indicated she only wanted to be friends), that you allowed yourself to be used, that you were easily led, and that you basically gave her everything she wanted in an attempt to manipulate her into a relationship.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on March 28, 2012, 03:10:03 PM
So how do I escape that mindset since I screwed up so badly?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Schultz on March 28, 2012, 03:15:43 PM
So how do I escape that mindset since I screwed up so badly?

Just what FormerReformer said.  Stop blaming her.  You screwed up.  Get over it and get over yourself.

Also speaking from the voice of experience.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on March 28, 2012, 03:34:36 PM
I have a lot of friends these days who are now happily married (getting to that age, I guess), including several women. As they're happily spoken for now, they're probably a bit more honest than is absolutely necessary regarding these sorts of things. One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else." It's pretty blunt, but seems true from my experience. Women are like bees: They can smell fear, or perhaps more commonly, insecurity/lack of confidence. If you were around this girl for so long and wanted something more but didn't actually make the effort for whatever reason, then whose fault is that? Yours. If you made the effort and she said "nah, I'd rather just remain friends", then whose fault is that? Still not hers, but it is your fault if you fixate on it and get bitter and start to blame her, as though she was supposed to want to be with you but is somehow not getting it or something. It doesn't work that way. You get shot down, alright, move on. You're young. It'll happen a lot. (This is not a comment on your as a person, since I don't know you, just a general comment that I can make from experience that you don't have yet.)

Again, the right way to deal with this stuff is not to become bitter and hold onto the past. In fact, there's something to be said for a person who learns whatever it is they need to learn from it and moves on and is stronger for it. It shows maturity and a certain confidence that will help your chances next time you meet some girl you'd like to be with. You have to learn to take a few beatings to the ego to get it down to a proportion relative to what you can actually offer in a relationship (whatever that is; that's another you'll figure out from experience, as you mature). There are already so many men out there with the "friend zone" or "I deserve a model even though I'm _____ [out of shape, bald, smelly, racist, live in my mom's basement at 45, etc.]" chip on their shoulder. Work on figuring yourself out so that you're not that guy and you'll already be ahead of the game.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IXOYE on March 28, 2012, 03:43:33 PM
In real life we usually hear that if you are looking for someone to join (or attend) a large parish.  That can be hard due to great distance from one.

I don't know how much success people have with online dating in the Orthodox world.  Yet I know of a new yahoo group which I can't post here due to the rules.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on March 28, 2012, 03:44:37 PM
One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else."

Word.

Confidence (not to be confused with cockiness) is hot. Whininess (word?) is not. Not a comment on you as a person James, just woman advice from an actual woman. You're welcome.  :P  ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on March 28, 2012, 03:46:46 PM
So how do I escape that mindset since I screwed up so badly?

The same way you escape the mindset of all resentment- you accept those things that were your fault, and forgive those that were hers, and do it over and over 'til it sticks.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on March 28, 2012, 03:48:00 PM
I don't know how much success people have with online dating in the Orthodox world.  Yet I know of a new yahoo group which I can't post here due to the rules.

As I understood it, the rule used to be that you could post a link to another site/forum/group if it was relevant to the discussion and you weren't just trying to advertise or divert the conversation. Don't know if that's still the rule though...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on March 28, 2012, 05:24:12 PM
Oh, please. We all know that there exists a certain species of woman who is quite aware of her effect on her infatuated male friend who, for whatever reason, does not live up to her standards of f---ability and is fated to forever remain in the friend zone, where his infatuation can be exploited for emotional or physical gain.

There is a lot of truth to what you guys have said above, but some of it totally lacks balance and is unnecessarily hard on James.

Everyone these days is in such a rush to avoid appearing to be a misogynist that even the most blatant and obvious and secretly-agreed-by-all faults of certain members of the fairer sex are somehow unmentionable.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on March 28, 2012, 05:27:37 PM
One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else."

Word.

Confidence (not to be confused with cockiness) is hot. Whininess (word?) is not. Not a comment on you as a person James, just woman advice from an actual woman. You're welcome.  :P  ;)

How are women able to get away with saying such things but if I say I prefer a woman who doesn't realise how amazing she is and is somewhat delicate in speech and manner I am immediately branded a chauvinist who wants a doormat, not a woman?

(This is not a criticism of you, ZealousZeal, but of society's apparent double standards).
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on March 28, 2012, 05:31:10 PM
So how do I escape that mindset since I screwed up so badly?

James, the truth is probably somewhere in between how you described the girl above and what these dudes have told you since -- or perhaps a bit of both at once.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You are a human being.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on March 28, 2012, 05:37:22 PM
Oh, please. We all know that there exists a certain species of woman who is quite aware of her effect on her infatuated male friend who, for whatever reason, does not live up to her standards of f---ability and is fated to forever remain in the friend zone, where his infatuation can be exploited for emotional or physical gain.

For sure- I have a word for this type of woman, but I think it might break forum rules and I'd rather not get moderated after finally coming out of lurkdom.  ;)

One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else."

Word.

Confidence (not to be confused with cockiness) is hot. Whininess (word?) is not. Not a comment on you as a person James, just woman advice from an actual woman. You're welcome.  :P  ;)

How are women able to get away with saying such things but if I say I prefer a woman who doesn't realise how amazing she is and is somewhat delicate in speech and manner I am immediately branded a chauvinist who wants a doormat, not a woman?

(This is not a criticism of you, ZealousZeal, but of society's apparent double standards).

I hear you. Haters gonna hate. I don't think that makes you a chauvinist at all... that's a legitimate preference.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on March 28, 2012, 05:44:52 PM
One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else."

Word.

Confidence (not to be confused with cockiness) is hot. Whininess (word?) is not. Not a comment on you as a person James, just woman advice from an actual woman. You're welcome.  :P  ;)

There is only one way to gain confidence and that is by experience, and more importantly from success.  Both of those things have to come from somewhere.  (Confidence that does not come from success is either arrogance or a special breed of stupidity - one that is entirely unable to recognize the chance of failure.)

How many women are out there who complain about being treated like crap by men but won't give an otherwise decent fellow a chance because he is uncomfortable?  I know plenty of them.  I also know plenty of men who are uncomfortable around women because of failure after failure followed by impending failure.  When they finally met a girl who gave them a chance both of them were rewarded by a wonderful relationship.

I have also had male friends who were quite adept at getting up a girl's skirt and then ditching them right afterwards.  Oh well, at least they were confident, since that is really what matters.



As a side note, Aki, there are times I really really like you.  No homo.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on March 28, 2012, 05:52:53 PM
One thing a friend of mine said regarding her years of singlehood (paraphrased): "All that 'friend zone' business is just a label that pathetic men came up with to justify being bitter towards women who ended up with someone else."

Word.

Confidence (not to be confused with cockiness) is hot. Whininess (word?) is not. Not a comment on you as a person James, just woman advice from an actual woman. You're welcome.  :P  ;)

There is only one way to gain confidence and that is by experience, and more importantly from success.  Both of those things have to come from somewhere.  (Confidence that does not come from success is either arrogance or a special breed of stupidity - one that is entirely unable to recognize the chance of failure.)

How many women are out there who complain about being treated like crap by men but won't give an otherwise decent fellow a chance because he is uncomfortable?  I know plenty of them.  I also know plenty of men who are uncomfortable around women because of failure after failure followed by impending failure.  When they finally met a girl who gave them a chance both of them were rewarded by a wonderful relationship.

I have also had male friends who were quite adept at getting up a girl's skirt and then ditching them right afterwards.  Oh well, at least they were confident, since that is really what matters.



As a side note, Aki, there are times I really really like you.  No homo.

Oh please- I didn't say confidence is "what really matters", or all you need is confidence, or anything of the sort. Moving forward after any sort of failed relationship, it's much better to be confident (in what you've learned, the experience you gained, etc.) than resentful, bitter, and whiney. I attempted to distinguish between confidence and cockiness, which is confidence gone jerky. There's a difference, and it's important.

That's all.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on March 28, 2012, 07:22:49 PM
Oh, please. We all know that there exists a certain species of woman who is quite aware of her effect on her infatuated male friend who, for whatever reason, does not live up to her standards of f---ability and is fated to forever remain in the friend zone, where his infatuation can be exploited for emotional or physical gain.

Such women are not worth anyone's time. In fact, one of the reasons why I haven't done so well at the whole "remaining friends with exes" idea is because when I tried to do that I had the distinct sense that it was developing into one of those kinds of situations; y'know, the whole "well, my CURRENT boyfriend is an jerk, but I can always call Jeremy or go see him" (the flip-side of this is, of course, that I let her think that for a while before realizing that it was bad for all involved, so I wasn't exactly helping the situation). It's just weird and wrong. Avoid those women and those situations like the plague.

Quote
Everyone these days is in such a rush to avoid appearing to be a misogynist that even the most blatant and obvious and secretly-agreed-by-all faults of certain members of the fairer sex are somehow unmentionable.

I wouldn't say that. Given the quite feminized forced-equality ideas that are accepted in today's society, I imagine that I'm probably more likely to be labeled misogynistic than not. So be it. That doesn't mean that my friend's observation is necessarily wrong, or at least I haven't found it to be wrong so far in my life (and hearing it coming from someone I know has a good head on her shoulders and doesn't go in for double-standards really helped me work through some of what James is apparently is apparently dealing with, so I thought it might be helpful to retell it here).
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IXOYE on March 28, 2012, 08:06:42 PM
I don't know how much success people have with online dating in the Orthodox world.  Yet I know of a new yahoo group which I can't post here due to the rules.

As I understood it, the rule used to be that you could post a link to another site/forum/group if it was relevant to the discussion and you weren't just trying to advertise or divert the conversation. Don't know if that's still the rule though...

What say our moderators?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on March 28, 2012, 09:21:29 PM
Oh, please. We all know that there exists a certain species of woman who is quite aware of her effect on her infatuated male friend who, for whatever reason, does not live up to her standards of f---ability and is fated to forever remain in the friend zone, where his infatuation can be exploited for emotional or physical gain.

There is a lot of truth to what you guys have said above, but some of it totally lacks balance and is unnecessarily hard on James.

Everyone these days is in such a rush to avoid appearing to be a misogynist that even the most blatant and obvious and secretly-agreed-by-all faults of certain members of the fairer sex are somehow unmentionable.

I could care less about whether or not I appear to be misogynist- what I do care about is honesty. Yes, certain girls have their share of blame for exploiting emotionally weak and immature guys, but in the end, if you're being used you have to realize that the only one to really blame is yourself for putting yourself out there to be used- if you weren't emotionally weak and immature, if you had been willing to say "no" and put your foot down, if you hadn't been thinking with the entirely wrong head, you might have avoided some pain and heartache. By all means, blame women who seek and destroy infatuated guys, but blame yourself when you fall for it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on March 28, 2012, 09:28:18 PM
Well put, FormerReformer.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: That person on March 28, 2012, 09:38:18 PM

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
All right, so I think I've pretty much got this part down.
Quote
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
How do these work exactly?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on March 28, 2012, 09:46:50 PM
This thread has gotten oddly serious.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on March 28, 2012, 09:47:07 PM
Probably going to spark a lot of controversy and hate here....but how come when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, everyone feels bad for her and acts like she is a victim. Yet, when a guy gets emotionally exploited by a woman in a relationship everyone acts like it is his fault for allowing it to happen? If that is the case, then couldn't one also argue that a woman who has been abused is guilty for staying in the relationship? But that would be absurd, so I find it strange that this type of argument can go either way.

Anyway....I'll try to sum up what I think I have learned so far. The truth is probably somewhere in between all of the comments I have received here, and while she is probably guilty for exploiting me, I am also guilty for allowing it to happen? So the best thing to do is avoid women who are capable of that but to also focus on myself and try to build confidence and success?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on March 28, 2012, 10:06:06 PM

First, then, you fledgeling troopers in passion's service, comes the task of finding the object for your love.
All right, so I think I've pretty much got this part down.
Quote
Next, you must labour to woo and win your lady.
Thirdly, ensure the affair will last.
Such are my limitations, such the ground I will cover, the race I propose to run.
How do these work exactly?

Don't be shy about promising; it's promises girls are undone by;
Invoke any gods you please to endorse your performance.
Jupiter smiles from heaven on foresworn lovers, lets all their perjuries blow away unrequited.
(He used to swear falsely, by Styx, to Juno - So looks now with favour on others who do the same.)

Don't torture your hair, though, with curling irons; don't pumice your legs into smoothness.
Leave that to Mother Cybele's votaries, ululating in chorus with their Phrygian modes.
Real men shouldn't primp their good looks.
Keep pleasantly clean, take exercise, work up an outdoor tan;
make quite sure your clothes fit and don't show spots; don't lace your shoes too tightly or ignore any rusty buckles,
or slop around around in too large a fitting.
Don't let some incompetent barber ruin your looks; both hair and bear demand expert attention.
Keep your nails pared, and dirt-free; don't let those long hairs sprout in your nostrils,
make sure your breath is never offensive, avoid the rank male stench that wrinkles noses.
Beyond this is for wanton women - or any half-man who wants to attract men.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on March 28, 2012, 10:10:43 PM
Probably going to spark a lot of controversy and hate here....but how come when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, everyone feels bad for her and acts like she is a victim. Yet, when a guy gets emotionally exploited by a woman in a relationship everyone acts like it is his fault for allowing it to happen? If that is the case, then couldn't one also argue that a woman who has been abused is guilty for staying in the relationship? But that would be absurd, so I find it strange that this type of argument can go either way.

Anyway....I'll try to sum up what I think I have learned so far. The truth is probably somewhere in between all of the comments I have received here, and while she is probably guilty for exploiting me, I am also guilty for allowing it to happen? So the best thing to do is avoid women who are capable of that but to also focus on myself and try to build confidence and success?

Because men and women aren't equal, no matter what people want to pretend. We both have our own failings, and as men we expect you to 'man-the-F-up".
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: That person on March 28, 2012, 10:11:09 PM

Invoke any gods you please to endorse your performance.
So there's this really cute cool agnostic girl I've known for a while. Does the same principle apply to lack of gods?
Quote
Keep pleasantly clean, take exercise, work up an outdoor tan;
This might be my problem here...
Quote
both hair and bear demand expert attention.
Now this just seems like common sense.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on March 28, 2012, 10:15:33 PM
This thread has gotten oddly serious.

If only orthonorm were around to advise!  Alas, he has abandoned us, and we will soon run aground on the shoals of broken hearts borne of ignorance!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on March 28, 2012, 10:19:44 PM
Probably going to spark a lot of controversy and hate here....but how come when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, everyone feels bad for her and acts like she is a victim. Yet, when a guy gets emotionally exploited by a woman in a relationship everyone acts like it is his fault for allowing it to happen? If that is the case, then couldn't one also argue that a woman who has been abused is guilty for staying in the relationship? But that would be absurd, so I find it strange that this type of argument can go either way.

Anyway....I'll try to sum up what I think I have learned so far. The truth is probably somewhere in between all of the comments I have received here, and while she is probably guilty for exploiting me, I am also guilty for allowing it to happen? So the best thing to do is avoid women who are capable of that but to also focus on myself and try to build confidence and success?

Because men and women aren't equal, no matter what people want to pretend. We both have our own failings, and as men we expect you to 'man-the-F-up".

My only expectation of him is that he learns from his pain, but perhaps I am weak and effeminate (Lord forbid).
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on March 28, 2012, 10:20:25 PM
Probably going to spark a lot of controversy and hate here....but how come when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, everyone feels bad for her and acts like she is a victim. Yet, when a guy gets emotionally exploited by a woman in a relationship everyone acts like it is his fault for allowing it to happen? If that is the case, then couldn't one also argue that a woman who has been abused is guilty for staying in the relationship? But that would be absurd, so I find it strange that this type of argument can go either way.

Anyway....I'll try to sum up what I think I have learned so far. The truth is probably somewhere in between all of the comments I have received here, and while she is probably guilty for exploiting me, I am also guilty for allowing it to happen? So the best thing to do is avoid women who are capable of that but to also focus on myself and try to build confidence and success?

Because men and women aren't equal, no matter what people want to pretend. We both have our own failings, and as men we expect you to 'man-the-F-up".

My only expectation of him is that he learns from his pain, but perhaps I am weak and effeminate (Lord forbid).

probably  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on March 28, 2012, 10:20:56 PM
As a side note, Aki, there are times I really really like you.  No homo.

Wasn't there something in another thread about your shifting sex/gender?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on March 28, 2012, 10:24:15 PM
Probably going to spark a lot of controversy and hate here....but how come when a woman stays in an abusive relationship, everyone feels bad for her and acts like she is a victim. Yet, when a guy gets emotionally exploited by a woman in a relationship everyone acts like it is his fault for allowing it to happen? If that is the case, then couldn't one also argue that a woman who has been abused is guilty for staying in the relationship? But that would be absurd, so I find it strange that this type of argument can go either way.
There is a large degree to which it is the woman's fault- especially when she jumps from one abusive relationship to another (how's that for misogyny?). The biggest problem here isn't necessarily a double standard, it is a skewed secular standard where nothing is ever anyone's fault and everyone is a victim. Now, are there certain factors which might cause a woman to seek out abusive relationships- say coming from an abusive home? Certainly. And I suspect you could pinpoint certain aspects of a guy who constantly allows himself to be an emotional punching bag for manipulative women to his relationship with his mother. But this does not excuse, in any way, the inability to determine a certain pattern and try and break from it.

At the same time, no one can get fed up quicker with a woman with an inability to break from a cycle of abuse than other women who did so- a woman who's been there is a lot more likely to say "For cryin' out loud, get out of it!" Much of the advice you've received here comes from guys who have been there.

Women also get far more sympathy because their abuse tends to be far more visible- black eyes, bruises, missing patches of hair, and in the worst cases a coffin. A physically abused woman is likely to be murdered, and emotionally abused man- suicide.
Quote
Anyway....I'll try to sum up what I think I have learned so far. The truth is probably somewhere in between all of the comments I have received here, and while she is probably guilty for exploiting me, I am also guilty for allowing it to happen? So the best thing to do is avoid women who are capable of that but to also focus on myself and try to build confidence and success?
Well, to tie it all back to a religious forum the best thing to do is to focus on your spiritual development and success in the arena of the soul. Do this, and you will gain the wisdom necessary to judge the qualities of the women you meet- to look beyond attraction, whether physical, intellectual, or emotional- and find one that is actually worth time, effort, and sacrifice to be with.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on March 28, 2012, 10:24:45 PM
Don't worry I learned from my pain and I'm sure not going to let that happen to me again.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on March 28, 2012, 10:27:28 PM
Don't worry I learned from my pain and I'm sure not going to let that happen to me again.
Again, not to be mean but...

You most likely will.

If it happens, remember the lesson of Lent- don't despair, when you fall get back up.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on March 28, 2012, 10:28:10 PM
Impressive stuff, as always, FormerReformer.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on March 28, 2012, 10:33:50 PM
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq0iwbjfb91qbrrf8.png)

This is supposed to be a light-hearted thread, after all. ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on March 28, 2012, 10:52:48 PM
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq0iwbjfb91qbrrf8.png)

This is supposed to be a light-hearted thread, after all. ;)

You can be my wingman anytime.  ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on March 29, 2012, 12:24:02 AM
As a side note, Aki, there are times I really really like you.  No homo.

Wasn't there something in another thread about your shifting sex/gender?

I was doing that just for Asteriktos' amusement.  He said there was nothing interesting going on so I flew to Thailand and got a sex-change operation.  There is nothing I won't do for my online family.  But it's alright.  The doctor said everything would grow back in six to eight months, just like a lizard's tail.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on March 29, 2012, 12:43:22 AM
As a side note, Aki, there are times I really really like you.  No homo.

Wasn't there something in another thread about your shifting sex/gender?

I was doing that just for Asteriktos' amusement.  He said there was nothing interesting going on so I flew to Thailand and got a sex-change operation.  There is nothing I won't do for my online family.  But it's alright.  The doctor said everything would grow back in six to eight months, just like a lizard's tail.

Hmm, not sure I'm into that, haha.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on March 29, 2012, 12:45:25 AM
As a side note, Aki, there are times I really really like you.  No homo.

Wasn't there something in another thread about your shifting sex/gender?

I was doing that just for Asteriktos' amusement.  He said there was nothing interesting going on so I flew to Thailand and got a sex-change operation.  There is nothing I won't do for my online family.  But it's alright.  The doctor said everything would grow back in six to eight months, just like a lizard's tail.

I will accept your situation out of love, but don't be surprised if I'm disgusted with myself each time we've finished.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesRottnek on March 29, 2012, 01:45:41 AM
As a side note, Aki, there are times I really really like you.  No homo.

Wasn't there something in another thread about your shifting sex/gender?

I was doing that just for Asteriktos' amusement.  He said there was nothing interesting going on so I flew to Thailand and got a sex-change operation.  There is nothing I won't do for my online family.  But it's alright.  The doctor said everything would grow back in six to eight months, just like a lizard's tail.

Hmm, not sure I'm into that, haha.

Now if you had a race-change operation along with it, and became a Japanese girl, Akimori would be interested.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Νεκτάριος on March 29, 2012, 02:42:03 AM
Intelligent - go back to Alaska and swim to the west.  I have been searching and searching for an uneducated Russian woman.  Not that I have an interest in stupid women, it's just kinda like the four leaved clover thing.  It doesn't really do anything useful, but it's an accomplishment to say you found one.

Work as a teacher here.  It won't take long for your search to be completed. 

A good point though about Russian culture and conversation.  I really enjoy the fact that a great date is simply going for a pleasant walk in a park and chatting.  That's still really my favorite way to spend a pleasant day with my wife.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on March 29, 2012, 05:17:10 AM
A good point though about Russian culture and conversation.  I really enjoy the fact that a great date is simply going for a pleasant walk in a park and chatting.

I like the thought of that. Sounds inexpensive, intimate and intellectually satisfying. However, if you do not mind me asking, isn't walking through a park at night dangerous? Over in California it can be pretty dangerous with the crime and everything. Fortunately though, some efforts are being made to combat it as it is becoming more and more common for police stations to be built next to parks and libraries.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on March 29, 2012, 08:47:18 AM
I don't know how much success people have with online dating in the Orthodox world.  Yet I know of a new yahoo group which I can't post here due to the rules.

As I understood it, the rule used to be that you could post a link to another site/forum/group if it was relevant to the discussion and you weren't just trying to advertise or divert the conversation. Don't know if that's still the rule though...

What say our moderators?

I clicked on "Rules" and scrolled down. Miracle of miracles, I did find the rule that you are referring to!!!

"    * Links -- Posters are not permitted to post links to websites designed for the commercial purposes of selling without explicit permission from a moderator or administrator.  Advertising is also prohibited without explicit permission.  Offending posts will be immediately deleted.  Posting of a link to any website not related to the ongoing thread discussion is not allowed.  If it is the first topic in the thread, or if the link IS relevant to the conversation at hand, it is required that the poster post a paragraph of text from the article in question into the thread.  The poster can then include a DIRECT link to the article in that post, below the paragraph of text."
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: IXOYE on March 29, 2012, 12:37:48 PM
Thanks Second Chance!

“Orthodox And Single is a place where single Orthodox Christians can meet
other singles of the Eastern Orthodox faith.”

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxAndSingle/
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Νεκτάριος on March 29, 2012, 04:54:00 PM
A good point though about Russian culture and conversation.  I really enjoy the fact that a great date is simply going for a pleasant walk in a park and chatting.

I like the thought of that. Sounds inexpensive, intimate and intellectually satisfying. However, if you do not mind me asking, isn't walking through a park at night dangerous? Over in California it can be pretty dangerous with the crime and everything. Fortunately though, some efforts are being made to combat it as it is becoming more and more common for police stations to be built next to parks and libraries.

Parks have the potential to be unpleasant - drunks around the clock and dangerous at night.  Daytime is nice though. 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on March 29, 2012, 04:57:41 PM
Now if you had a race-change operation along with it, and became a Japanese girl, Akimori would be interested.

But there's more to it than looks. I know from extensive research that I have done on video sites that, to be a Japanese girl, you must be willing to participate in the most perverted and disgusting sexualized acts possible, but still have the sense of propriety to blur out your private bits. This isn't something that can be taught quickly, you need to be raised and conditioned in a society for decades to have that kind of mindset.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on March 29, 2012, 06:11:51 PM
I'm looking for a special lady to enjoy my company and appreciate my brilliance. If you meet the following qualifications, you will private message me, and I will then let you know whether I want to go forward with a relationship.

Qualifications
- No kids. Also, you must not have any kids of your own.
- Red hair preferred. Natural redheads only. Imposters will be severely punished. This will be verified during the first meeting.
- Breasts no bigger than a C cup, but no smaller than a B cup.
- Green eyes a plus, but I can work with brown eyes if you also have brown or black hair.
- Glasses a plus. Contact wearers need not apply.
- Long toes.
- Large tush. Bubble butts will be accepted or rejected depending on comparison of butt-to-breast proportions.
- Intelligent, but not smarter than me. (Exception: must be smarter than me in culinary and other related skills).
- Between 5'2" and 5'4"
- Between 125 and 145 lbs. Exceptions to this (within a 5 pound margin) must have good justification.
- Low maintenance.
- Must be "open minded" in the bedroom.
- Must be a liberal: philosophically, politically, religiously.
- Must enjoy reading.
- Must enjoy watching sports.
- Should have a graduate degree, or be preparing to enter a program in pursuit of such a degree.
- Must find bald men irresistable.
- Likes heavy metal music, horror movies, and various other forms of low-brow entertainment.
- No pro wrestling fans.
- Familiarity with Star Trek highly desired.
- Must be able to meet personal grooming requests.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 29, 2012, 06:23:12 PM
Dude can you link us to your eHarmony profile? I have to see it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on March 29, 2012, 06:26:55 PM
Now if you had a race-change operation along with it, and became a Japanese girl, Akimori would be interested.

But there's more to it than looks. I know from extensive research that I have done on video sites that, to be a Japanese girl, you must be willing to participate in the most perverted and disgusting sexualized acts possible, but still have the sense of propriety to blur out your private bits. This isn't something that can be taught quickly, you need to be raised and conditioned in a society for decades to have that kind of mindset.

The man speaks truth.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on March 29, 2012, 06:27:23 PM
Dude can you link us to your eHarmony profile? I have to see it.

I signed up for eHarmony during one of those "free weekend" things, but they sent me an email saying that they could not help me at this time   :'(
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 29, 2012, 06:32:03 PM
It's alright buddy. I'm sure eHarmony would send you this as a "consolation" prize:

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3275/dinnero.jpg)

Wait.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on March 29, 2012, 06:33:15 PM
It's alright buddy. I'm sure eHarmony would send you this as a "consolation" prize:

Wait.

:( Wouldn't help anyway. I don't have a working microwave where I'm staying. Those milky way bars look downright delicious though...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 29, 2012, 06:35:59 PM
With my lottery winnings we can construct the woman of your dreams and make her stronger, better, faster
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on March 29, 2012, 10:07:59 PM
With my lottery winnings we can construct the woman of your dreams and make her stronger, better, faster

Tubular!

That post was supposed to be a parody of certain profiles I've seen on dating sites. I understand having a certain idea of who your dream guy/girl is, but the chances that you're going to make up an insanely specific list and then find that person on Plenty of Fish or OK Cupid isn't very likely.

Not that the above list isn't my dream girl...  :angel: ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 29, 2012, 10:58:34 PM
True story, I was on that plenty of fish site a few years ago. My god the women on their freaked me out.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on March 29, 2012, 11:45:52 PM
True story, I was on that plenty of fish site a few years ago. My god the women on their freaked me out.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up POF,
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 30, 2012, 12:04:28 AM
All of those dating sites are so hopeless and actually made me a bit depressed. People are so full of themselves, it's truly remarkable.

What's that Christian dating site? Christian Mingle? Oh lawdy.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on March 30, 2012, 12:08:56 AM
I'd never heard of Plenty of Fish, just E-Harmony because it has all those dumb tv ads, so I went there...thanks a lot, thread. That was terrible. Turns out there are a LOT of single women in Albuquerque, but to find one that doesn't come with an instant family or probably needing a green card is apparently quite a challenge. And that's not even getting started on all the 18-20 year olds that are probably fake accounts to sell you/infect your computer with pornography...yikes!

That settles it; I'm never leaving my apartment.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 30, 2012, 12:10:08 AM
Oh yeah I forgot about all the accounts that are probably fake. Man I'm so naive.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on March 30, 2012, 06:40:59 PM
Oh yeah I forgot about all the accounts that are probably fake. Man I'm so naive.

Match.com seems to be worst for this (of the paid sites).  They leave them up indefinitely unless the user decides to make their account inactive.  FWIW, I met my first girlfriend on Match, so it is possible.  Also, they get hacked profiles where someone just makes a profile with no preferences (first give away) and then uploads a pretty picture they got off the interwebz and sends out "winks" to random guys.  These are relatively easy to spot.  All in all it's not a terrible site.

As for Christian Mingle, I don't have a lot of experience on that site.  I met one girl on there and she is so inexplicably wonderful that I never bothered talking to anyone else and let the subscription expire.  I cannot comment on the overall female content of the site, but as far as the mechanics of the site goes, it's actually one of the better ones.

Regarding Plenty of Fish...it's free and you get what you pay for.  Half of the women on there have "if you are just looking for a booty call I'm not for you" so there has to be a rather large number of creepers on there as far as men go.  Unfortunately, when you throw that many creepers onto one site the women get pretty jaded pretty quickly.  Then you have the ones saying they don't want to be thought of as a piece of meat, but their main profile pic has 76% of it taken up by their cleavage!  There is an "intimate encounters" search option.  I ran this search a few times as it is excessively hilarious.  I found a one-armed woman who was married but said that her husband just didn't excite her so she was looking for something on he side.  You just can't make up that sort of thing!  And to top it all off, she was from Council Bluffs!  One woman emailed me only to tell me that I looked like a child molester.  I took a peak at her profile and there was just way too much ammunition.  She made a big point of saying that she was not interested in men who were overweight.  That was just pure gold because when I saw her picture I thought, 'wow, if I were an Eskimo she would make one heck of a good meal.  Enough for the whole tribe!' 

(I generally make a point of never making fun of overweight women because I have met too many of them who have had a heart of gold.  Not to mention, I have been a chubby bloke my whole life and only now am starting to diet and exercise.  I know how hard it is to loose weight, though to all you plump people out there, once you get going it gets a whole lot easier!  But yeah, this woman was just way too hypocritical for me not to make fun of!)

But yeah, POF is plenty worth steering away from, unless you're looking for lulz.  Any woman on there who was at least remotely serious was just as picky as one you could have found on a paid site.

I have nothing really good to say about eharmony.  It costs way more than any of the others and I never had it send me any matches and I am sure as heck not going to cough up cash if I don't have some idea as to the quality up front.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: That person on March 30, 2012, 06:55:40 PM
What's that Christian dating site? Christian Mingle? Oh lawdy.
My youngest sister met her current boyfriend on there. I'll let you know how it goes.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on March 30, 2012, 07:14:37 PM
I'll get to vamrat soon but.

What's that Christian dating site? Christian Mingle? Oh lawdy.
My youngest sister met her current boyfriend on there. I'll let you know how it goes.
What age?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: That person on March 30, 2012, 08:42:55 PM
I'll get to vamrat soon but.

What's that Christian dating site? Christian Mingle? Oh lawdy.
My youngest sister met her current boyfriend on there. I'll let you know how it goes.
What age?
She's 26. He's somewhere in his 30s.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 03, 2012, 03:53:09 PM
I'll get to vamrat soon but.


I would be more than happy to answer any questions or make clarifications.  I might as well get some use out of several pathetic years of online dating!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 04, 2012, 12:13:59 AM
Ok, so I was at this bar the other night called The Blue Oyster, and I got to talking with this guy. He said he was a model scout and I was perfect for an upcoming calendar he was putting together. I was so stoked! Anyway, he said the only thing was that it was a really high quality one, and only the best of the best could get in. So basically he just wanted to check out to make sure I was worthy of being on it. Well I'm sorta shy so I suggested something more private. He said the bathroom, but I was like, no way, that's not private enough for me to take my shirt off in! So I suggested maybe my apartment, and he seemed fine with that. We get back to my place and I take off my shirt to show him, and he started getting very aggressive and I was quite uncomfortable and asked him to leave. He got mad and was going, but then I remembered that he said I'd have to pay $500 for an administrative fee to get in, so I chased him down in the hall and gave him the cash. Anyway, so the thing is, I don't want to blow my chance to get in this calendar! He gave me his business card when we first met... do you think I should call him and apologize, or just wait for him to call me, or what? It's been 2 1/2 days since I saw him.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 04, 2012, 08:17:42 AM
Ok, so I was at this bar the other night called The Blue Oyster, and I got to talking with this guy. He said he was a model scout and I was perfect for an upcoming calendar he was putting together. I was so stoked! Anyway, he said the only thing was that it was a really high quality one, and only the best of the best could get in. So basically he just wanted to check out to make sure I was worthy of being on it. Well I'm sorta shy so I suggested something more private. He said the bathroom, but I was like, no way, that's not private enough for me to take my shirt off in! So I suggested maybe my apartment, and he seemed fine with that. We get back to my place and I take off my shirt to show him, and he started getting very aggressive and I was quite uncomfortable and asked him to leave. He got mad and was going, but then I remembered that he said I'd have to pay $500 for an administrative fee to get in, so I chased him down in the hall and gave him the cash. Anyway, so the thing is, I don't want to blow my chance to get in this calendar! He gave me his business card when we first met... do you think I should call him and apologize, or just wait for him to call me, or what? It's been 2 1/2 days since I saw him.

I admire your decency, and I think that you did the right thing.  However, when it comes to blowing things, your chances for getting on that calendar are pretty high on the list.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 04, 2012, 02:33:24 PM
I admire your decency, and I think that you did the right thing.  However, when it comes to blowing things, your chances for getting on that calendar are pretty high on the list.

Yeah, it seems so. I decided to call him this morning and try to smooth things over. He said his partner that is working on the calendar with him already promised the final spot to some other guy. If I had only sealed the deal last night I could have got on it, but alas, that didn't happen. He did promise to keep me on a list in case someone else can't do it though. And more importantly he told me that he is about to begin on another project--and a bigger one than the calendar!--and he thinks I'll be perfect for it. It's a straight-to-video movie that they are filming out on Long Island. He said it would require some nudity, but assured me that it would be tastefully done. I know this is legit though because he said I'd have to go get blood tests done to show that I didn't have any diseases or anything... so you know these guys care about the safety of their actors! Anyway, I guess everything is working out for the best! Dolf (the guy I met at the bar) even said I could stay at his place when I'm out in NY. This is gonna be great!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: That person on April 05, 2012, 02:24:33 AM
Sounds like quite an opportunity. Do they have a working title?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 05, 2012, 02:48:16 AM
They actually have the official title, because he said they have done this a thousand times, and they plan everything out in advance, that way when the filming is done they can get through post-production quickly and get it out to these "specialty shops" they work with. The title is set to be Johnny's Jackhammer. Not sure what it's about yet, but from the title and location I'm assuming it'll be about construction on the mean streets of Long Island.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on April 05, 2012, 07:25:56 AM
A children's show like Mighty Machines, no doubt.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: That person on April 05, 2012, 04:23:15 PM
So I'm hoping to get my license soon, which should increase my chances of successfully arranging dates. I'll likely be using a Toyota Corolla primarily. Do guys who drive small cars have any stereotypes associated with them comparable to guys who drive big cars, but the opposite?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on April 05, 2012, 06:22:17 PM
Do guys who drive small cars have any stereotypes associated with them comparable to guys who drive big cars, but the opposite?

Yeah. Poor.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 06, 2012, 11:49:21 AM
So I'm hoping to get my license soon, which should increase my chances of successfully arranging dates. I'll likely be using a Toyota Corolla primarily. Do guys who drive small cars have any stereotypes associated with them comparable to guys who drive big cars, but the opposite?

If she has a problem with the car you drive, then she isn't worth it.

Here's one tip for you - go on three dates and if there isn't a spark and she isn't showing interest drop her. 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 06, 2012, 02:38:51 PM
I'm looking for a special lady to enjoy my company and appreciate my brilliance. If you meet the following qualifications, you will private message me, and I will then let you know whether I want to go forward with a relationship.

Qualifications
- No kids. Also, you must not have any kids of your own.
- Red hair preferred. Natural redheads only. Imposters will be severely punished. This will be verified during the first meeting.
- Breasts no bigger than a C cup, but no smaller than a B cup.
- Green eyes a plus, but I can work with brown eyes if you also have brown or black hair.
- Glasses a plus. Contact wearers need not apply.
- Long toes.
- Large tush. Bubble butts will be accepted or rejected depending on comparison of butt-to-breast proportions.
- Intelligent, but not smarter than me. (Exception: must be smarter than me in culinary and other related skills).
- Between 5'2" and 5'4"
- Between 125 and 145 lbs. Exceptions to this (within a 5 pound margin) must have good justification.
- Low maintenance.
- Must be "open minded" in the bedroom.
- Must be a liberal: philosophically, politically, religiously.
- Must enjoy reading.
- Must enjoy watching sports.
- Should have a graduate degree, or be preparing to enter a program in pursuit of such a degree.
- Must find bald men irresistable.
- Likes heavy metal music, horror movies, and various other forms of low-brow entertainment.
- No pro wrestling fans.
- Familiarity with Star Trek highly desired.
- Must be able to meet personal grooming requests.

Sounds like you are going to need more than one woman...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 06, 2012, 02:48:20 PM
Sounds like you are going to need more than one woman...

I am open to that scenario, though think it unlikely that it could work out over a period of several years or more. Some have found a way though, so there is hope...

However, interestingly, the fantasy list aside, when I think about someone who I've actually met in real life who I thought I fit best with, she only had about half of the 21 listed qualifications  ??? 8)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: That person on April 06, 2012, 09:16:35 PM

If she has a problem with the car you drive, then she isn't worth it.
I figured as much, but what if the car I drive would make her think better of me? Or certain aspects of me anyway.

It doesn't really matter. Most girls at my school are too sheltered to get the ins and outs of phallic stereotypes.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 07, 2012, 12:12:47 AM

If she has a problem with the car you drive, then she isn't worth it.
I figured as much, but what if the car I drive would make her think better of me? Or certain aspects of me anyway.

It doesn't really matter. Most girls at my school are too sheltered to get the ins and outs of phallic stereotypes.

If you need to impress a girl with a car get a Benz.  If you have the money get something Italian.  Otherwise, don't worry about it.  If it isn't a Lamborghini, someone will always have something better.

If they don't understand all the nuances of the phallus, just make sure you wear a codpiece on your first date.  Even the dimmest broad will understand that.

BTW, if you buy a truck, you're just admitting that you posses a microphallus**.  Don't do that.  And I swear, I f****ng swear, if you put truck balls on your truck, I will hunt you down and kill you.



**Or you utilize it for some form of work.  That is OK, but it will probably be dinged up which will prove that you aren't doing this as a means of penile prosthesis.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 07, 2012, 01:44:59 AM
I do not think women care about cars. Judging from every woman I have ever talked to, they seem to show little to no interest in a man's car. It might just be an unnecessary burden we are putting on ourselves. Besides, if a person has funk and style, then it does not matter what you are wearing or riding because you can sell it and make it look good.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 07, 2012, 03:03:20 AM
Why don't you take a sec to mire my car...

(http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2008/11/10/egg-car_5Rtqc_69.jpg)

Haters gonna hate. Come at me bro.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 07, 2012, 04:05:22 AM
You just have to have style my friend and sell it. Play some Nate Dogg on the radio, hang two oversized dice from the rear view mirror, some leather seats etc. Funk will go a long way for you.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Cavaradossi on April 07, 2012, 06:15:25 AM
I'm looking for a special lady to enjoy my company and appreciate my brilliance. If you meet the following qualifications, you will private message me, and I will then let you know whether I want to go forward with a relationship.

Qualifications
- No kids. Also, you must not have any kids of your own.
- Red hair preferred. Natural redheads only. Imposters will be severely punished. This will be verified during the first meeting.
- Breasts no bigger than a C cup, but no smaller than a B cup.
- Green eyes a plus, but I can work with brown eyes if you also have brown or black hair.
- Glasses a plus. Contact wearers need not apply.
- Long toes.
- Large tush. Bubble butts will be accepted or rejected depending on comparison of butt-to-breast proportions.
- Intelligent, but not smarter than me. (Exception: must be smarter than me in culinary and other related skills).
- Between 5'2" and 5'4"
- Between 125 and 145 lbs. Exceptions to this (within a 5 pound margin) must have good justification.
- Low maintenance.
- Must be "open minded" in the bedroom.
- Must be a liberal: philosophically, politically, religiously.
- Must enjoy reading.
- Must enjoy watching sports.
- Should have a graduate degree, or be preparing to enter a program in pursuit of such a degree.
- Must find bald men irresistable.
- Likes heavy metal music, horror movies, and various other forms of low-brow entertainment.
- No pro wrestling fans.
- Familiarity with Star Trek highly desired.
- Must be able to meet personal grooming requests.

Sounds like you are going to need more than one woman...

Why else would these two be criteria?

- Low maintenance.
- Must be "open minded" in the bedroom.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on April 07, 2012, 10:06:30 AM
I do not think women care about cars. Judging from every woman I have ever talked to, they seem to show little to no interest in a man's car. It might just be an unnecessary burden we are putting on ourselves. Besides, if a person has funk and style, then it does not matter what you are wearing or riding because you can sell it and make it look good.
But women care about that funk and style, surely. Dude how did you manage to get all life experiences at the age of 16 again?

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on April 07, 2012, 03:21:26 PM
I do not think women care about cars. Judging from every woman I have ever talked to, they seem to show little to no interest in a man's car. It might just be an unnecessary burden we are putting on ourselves. Besides, if a person has funk and style, then it does not matter what you are wearing or riding because you can sell it and make it look good.
But women care about that funk and style, surely. Dude how did you manage to get all life experiences at the age of 16 again?



My parents used to ask me this when I was 16. Sometimes they still ask me it, heh. :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on April 07, 2012, 06:40:21 PM
If I ever get my life back, this thread needs some serious maintenance.

The blind are leading the blind. And yes I know the cause of your blindness. It certainly ain't congenital.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 07, 2012, 07:10:40 PM
Why else would these two be criteria?

- Low maintenance.
- Must be "open minded" in the bedroom.

Well, actually, the thin----   wait, I can't talk about thaton this forum!!|!. NVM!  ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 07, 2012, 07:12:02 PM
If I ever get my life back, this thread needs some serious maintenance.

The blind are leading the blind. And yes I know the cause of your blindness. It certainly ain't congenital.

Don't worry, I'll hold down the fort until you return, offering sage advice from my dragon's-treasure-pile of knowledge  :police:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: That person on April 07, 2012, 08:02:00 PM
If I ever get my life back, this thread needs some serious maintenance.

I look forward to it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 07, 2012, 08:03:56 PM
If I ever get my life back, this thread needs some serious maintenance.

I look forward to it.

He's been saying that for months...  He's like an athlete who shows up every few months to assure everyone he's not going to retire, hoping his sponsors don't drop him like a rock.  :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on April 07, 2012, 11:04:40 PM
If I ever get my life back, this thread needs some serious maintenance.

The blind are leading the blind. And yes I know the cause of your blindness. It certainly ain't congenital.


Stop fronting that you have a life. You're just like the rest of us, trying to make sense out of Asteriktos life and spending hours on it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 07, 2012, 11:05:47 PM
If I ever get my life back, this thread needs some serious maintenance.

The blind are leading the blind. And yes I know the cause of your blindness. It certainly ain't congenital.


Stop fronting that you have a life. You're just like the rest of us, trying to make sense out of Asteriktos life and spending hours on it.

Lost cause.  I got a sex change to please him and it still wasn't enough.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 08, 2012, 04:37:39 PM
Stop fronting that you have a life. You're just like the rest of us, trying to make sense out of Asteriktos life and spending hours on it.

Lost cause.  I got a sex change to please him and it still wasn't enough.

Someone once tried to insult me by saying I had "an oblique personality". I thanked him for the compliment.

But vamrat, I hadn't decided yet, don't be so glum. Tell you what, make a profile on fetlife and post a dozen or so pics, and I'll take a gander. Deal?  ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 08, 2012, 07:33:04 PM
Stop fronting that you have a life. You're just like the rest of us, trying to make sense out of Asteriktos life and spending hours on it.

Lost cause.  I got a sex change to please him and it still wasn't enough.

Someone once tried to insult me by saying I had "an oblique personality". I thanked him for the compliment.

But vamrat, I hadn't decided yet, don't be so glum. Tell you what, make a profile on fetlife and post a dozen or so pics, and I'll take a gander. Deal?  ;D

[sniffle]  Ok  [sniffle]
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 08, 2012, 10:58:19 PM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on April 08, 2012, 11:19:37 PM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Ask Cavaradossi around here about a killer inside joke about Tosca. If she makes the connection to the alluded word play, it will truly be an Easter marigold.

Or just chill. Don't discuss Russian mail order brides, the decay of Western Civilization, and just ask her a few questions about herself and pay attention and don't talk too much.



Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on April 08, 2012, 11:51:27 PM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?
Is this before or after the fasting starts again?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Anastasia1 on April 09, 2012, 03:43:39 AM
I just met a guy I like, but he works for the rep I am volunteering for. I know you shouldn't date co-workers, and it would be cool if I ever got a job offer from the rep if/when he wins.  Should I just forget about it until after the election?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 09, 2012, 10:15:34 AM
I just met a guy I like, but he works for the rep I am volunteering for. I know you shouldn't date co-workers, and it would be cool if I ever got a job offer from the rep if/when he wins.  Should I just forget about it until after the election?

The only advice I have is the warning that if stuff goes south it will be hard to work around him.  Also, since he is in at the firm and you are not yet this could potentially become a lop-sided relationship.  I'm not going to persuade or dissuade you, just pointing out two obvious drawbacks.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Manalive on April 09, 2012, 10:32:20 AM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Be a gentleman. But don't act like she's the only person in the room. You should wait until after the Fast to start dating someone.  ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 09, 2012, 10:54:51 AM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Be a gentleman. But don't act like she's the only person in the room. You should wait until after the Fast to start dating someone.  ;)

Yeah.  Would have been good to know about forty days ago...  :'(
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 09, 2012, 02:26:17 PM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.  Don't do it!  You are too young to end your life.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 09, 2012, 02:28:49 PM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Be a gentleman. But don't act like she's the only person in the room. You should wait until after the Fast to start dating someone.  ;)

Why wait?  Is this another made up "tradition" that can be found nowhere in Scripture and practiced by nearly no one?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on April 09, 2012, 02:32:51 PM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?
Ask your priest  :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 09, 2012, 02:48:04 PM
I just met a guy I like, but he works for the rep I am volunteering for. I know you shouldn't date co-workers, and it would be cool if I ever got a job offer from the rep if/when he wins.  Should I just forget about it until after the election?

On possible route is to ask him out to lunch to discuss political strategery or something, and see what happens from there...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on April 09, 2012, 02:52:05 PM
I just met a guy I like, but he works for the rep I am volunteering for. I know you shouldn't date co-workers, and it would be cool if I ever got a job offer from the rep if/when he wins.  Should I just forget about it until after the election?

On possible route is to ask him out to lunch to discuss political strategery or something, and see what happens from there...
"I think the best way our guy can win is for you to follow me to the Motel 6....."

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Manalive on April 09, 2012, 03:56:11 PM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Be a gentleman. But don't act like she's the only person in the room. You should wait until after the Fast to start dating someone.  ;)

Why wait?  Is this another made up "tradition" that can be found nowhere in Scripture and practiced by nearly no one?


Why yes. I just made it up. Since I clearly stated in my post this was a tradition practiced by the church you shouldn't even have to ask. I just figured my statement would be as obvious as your ending the young man's life with dating/marriage comment is also "traditional". It dare wouldn't be my own advice or opinion.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 09, 2012, 04:46:57 PM
I just met a guy I like, but he works for the rep I am volunteering for. I know you shouldn't date co-workers, and it would be cool if I ever got a job offer from the rep if/when he wins.  Should I just forget about it until after the election?

On possible route is to ask him out to lunch to discuss political strategery or something, and see what happens from there...
"I think the best way our guy can win is for you to follow me to the Motel 6....."

PP

Wow. What kind of dates are you going on, Primuspilus...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 09, 2012, 04:48:07 PM
You stated such, but I do not believe you.

So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Be a gentleman. But don't act like she's the only person in the room. You should wait until after the Fast to start dating someone.  ;)

Why wait?  Is this another made up "tradition" that can be found nowhere in Scripture and practiced by nearly no one?


Why yes. I just made it up. Since I clearly stated in my post this was a tradition practiced by the church you shouldn't even have to ask. I just figured my statement would be as obvious as your ending the young man's life with dating/marriage comment is also "traditional". It dare wouldn't be my own advice or opinion.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 09, 2012, 05:57:48 PM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Be a gentleman. But don't act like she's the only person in the room. You should wait until after the Fast to start dating someone.  ;)

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 09, 2012, 06:20:54 PM
Science has proven that the best place to go for advice on dating/relationships is a thread about this (http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/26310915) on a gaming forum. You can't refute science.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 09, 2012, 08:00:19 PM
Science has proven that the best place to go for advice on dating/relationships is a thread about this (http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/26310915) on a gaming forum. You can't refute science.

Yes, nobody can give better advice than a bunch of 30 year old virgins living in their mom's basement.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 09, 2012, 08:02:08 PM
Science has proven that the best place to go for advice on dating/relationships is a thread about this (http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/26310915) on a gaming forum. You can't refute science.

Yes, nobody can give better advice than a bunch of 30 year old virgins living in their mom's basement.

You mad because they have an easier life than you? Yeah, you're mad...  ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Anastasia1 on April 09, 2012, 10:29:27 PM
I just met a guy I like, but he works for the rep I am volunteering for. I know you shouldn't date co-workers, and it would be cool if I ever got a job offer from the rep if/when he wins.  Should I just forget about it until after the election?

On possible route is to ask him out to lunch to discuss political strategery or something, and see what happens from there...
"I think the best way our guy can win is for you to follow me to the Motel 6....."

PP

Wow. What kind of dates are you going on, Primuspilus...
I'm not sure we really want to know what kind of dates Primuspilus goes on...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 10, 2012, 12:13:44 PM
Not only am I mad, but I am also angry.

Science has proven that the best place to go for advice on dating/relationships is a thread about this (http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/26310915) on a gaming forum. You can't refute science.

Yes, nobody can give better advice than a bunch of 30 year old virgins living in their mom's basement.

You mad because they have an easier life than you? Yeah, you're mad...  ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 10, 2012, 12:19:50 PM
Not only am I mad, but I am also angry.

Science has proven that the best place to go for advice on dating/relationships is a thread about this (http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/26310915) on a gaming forum. You can't refute science.

Yes, nobody can give better advice than a bunch of 30 year old virgins living in their mom's basement.

You mad because they have an easier life than you? Yeah, you're mad...  ;D

Well, maybe some day when they leave their geeky existence behind they'll do things that normal people do... like post on theology boards.  :-*
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on April 10, 2012, 12:25:15 PM
I just met a guy I like, but he works for the rep I am volunteering for. I know you shouldn't date co-workers, and it would be cool if I ever got a job offer from the rep if/when he wins.  Should I just forget about it until after the election?

On possible route is to ask him out to lunch to discuss political strategery or something, and see what happens from there...
"I think the best way our guy can win is for you to follow me to the Motel 6....."

PP

Wow. What kind of dates are you going on, Primuspilus...
I'm not sure we really want to know what kind of dates Primuspilus goes on...
Well, I did marry my wife 3 weeks after we met.......

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 10, 2012, 03:11:40 PM
I'm so excited right now! Look at this email I just got...

Quote
You have a new message from vicky23. It reads:

vicky44u@yahoo.comHello.My Name is vicky i want to your profile today at
(orthodoxchristiandating.com) and i love it i think we can clcik from
thier!please i will like you to email me back through my email
thus;(vicky44u@yahoo.com)  am waiting to recive your lovely reply
soonest! Yours vicky    !please contact me through my email address so
i can give you my picture and tell you my datel have a nice day.

What should I do? *squeeeeee*
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 10, 2012, 03:20:22 PM
I'm so excited right now! Look at this email I just got...

Quote
You have a new message from vicky23. It reads:

vicky44u@yahoo.comHello.My Name is vicky i want to your profile today at
(orthodoxchristiandating.com) and i love it i think we can clcik from
thier!please i will like you to email me back through my email
thus;(vicky44u@yahoo.com)  am waiting to recive your lovely reply
soonest! Yours vicky    !please contact me through my email address so
i can give you my picture and tell you my datel have a nice day.

What should I do? *squeeeeee*

Wow, I just got the same email yesterday.

Would you rather duel or share?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Anastasia1 on April 12, 2012, 03:18:45 AM
I just met a guy I like, but he works for the rep I am volunteering for. I know you shouldn't date co-workers, and it would be cool if I ever got a job offer from the rep if/when he wins.  Should I just forget about it until after the election?

On possible route is to ask him out to lunch to discuss political strategery or something, and see what happens from there...
Believe it or not, that is the easy part.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Νεκτάριος on April 12, 2012, 06:31:08 AM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.  Don't do it!  You are too young to end your life.

Best advice on this thread.  Don't start dating until you are ready to get married - realistically not until 22ish.   Figure out who you are first and live life a little.  The stress, pain, temptations and drama of dating just aren't worth it.  Marriage on the other hand certainly is. 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 12, 2012, 07:07:26 AM
Yeah buddy (http://youtu.be/uyaqJnvsMRY)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 12, 2012, 05:41:34 PM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.  Don't do it!  You are too young to end your life.

Best advice on this thread.  Don't start dating until you are ready to get married - realistically not until 22ish.   Figure out who you are first and live life a little.  The stress, pain, temptations and drama of dating just aren't worth it.  Marriage on the other hand certainly is. 

Okay, I'll try to follow this advice. However, there probably will be moments when I forget about, let my feelings get to me or make mistakes. Is it strange to want to date because it makes me feel older? In a strange way, dating makes me feel like a man.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on April 12, 2012, 09:18:37 PM
So there is this one girl at my Church, cute little blonde about my age. We don't talk very much, however, we have slightly been socializing a bit more, but not that much. Anyway, this saturday night for Pascha I kind of want to step it up a knotch with her. Wondering if anyone had any advice here since I'm a little sixteen year old and all of you wise old people have years of experience. What should I do? Stand by her, offer her my coat, put my arm around her, get a hotel, be a gentlemen, be an ass?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.  Don't do it!  You are too young to end your life.

Best advice on this thread.  Don't start dating until you are ready to get married - realistically not until 22ish.   Figure out who you are first and live life a little.  The stress, pain, temptations and drama of dating just aren't worth it.  Marriage on the other hand certainly is. 

There's stress, pain, temptations and drama in dating? I'm not sure what dates you have been on.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 18, 2012, 03:28:59 AM
I'm so excited right now! Look at this email I just got...

Quote
You have a new message from vicky23. It reads:

vicky44u@yahoo.comHello.My Name is vicky i want to your profile today at
(orthodoxchristiandating.com) and i love it i think we can clcik from
thier!please i will like you to email me back through my email
thus;(vicky44u@yahoo.com)  am waiting to recive your lovely reply
soonest! Yours vicky    !please contact me through my email address so
i can give you my picture and tell you my datel have a nice day.

What should I do? *squeeeeee*

Wow, I just got the same email yesterday.

Would you rather duel or share?

I say we find another woman to bring into the picture, then you can have one woman for a year and I'll have the other, and then after the year has concluded we will have an exchange ceremony and switch for the next year.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 18, 2012, 10:43:22 AM
I'm so excited right now! Look at this email I just got...

Quote
You have a new message from vicky23. It reads:

vicky44u@yahoo.comHello.My Name is vicky i want to your profile today at
(orthodoxchristiandating.com) and i love it i think we can clcik from
thier!please i will like you to email me back through my email
thus;(vicky44u@yahoo.com)  am waiting to recive your lovely reply
soonest! Yours vicky    !please contact me through my email address so
i can give you my picture and tell you my datel have a nice day.

What should I do? *squeeeeee*

Wow, I just got the same email yesterday.

Would you rather duel or share?

I say we find another woman to bring into the picture, then you can have one woman for a year and I'll have the other, and then after the year has concluded we will have an exchange ceremony and switch for the next year.

Sounds like a plan.  I think I found the other woman, and she really sounds like a keeper.  He name is Naomi and she's the daughter of General Joseph K'pondowa of Nigeria.  She said that she has quite a fortune built up from her late father who died in the recent civil war but needs a bank account to store it up in.  She had heard that I'm a reliable man with finances (looks like my exes haven't been slandering me afterall!) so she'd like to deposit the money in my account.  I sent her the account information last night, so by this afternoon I should be a millionaire!  Oh how grand life can be sometimes!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on April 18, 2012, 10:56:33 AM
Some people get all the breaks... *sigh*
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on April 19, 2012, 11:52:32 AM
Some people get all the breaks... *sigh*
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: That person on April 21, 2012, 02:04:34 PM
All right, so I got my driver's license (Yay!) and I got to talking with a girl I'm interested in. I wanted to ask her out, but I wound up going with "Would you be interested in hanging out sometime?" in a text message because I'm stupid and cowardly and stuff. But she did say yes, so that's a plus. Having made what I've been told elsewhere is a mistake, how should I take things from here?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on April 21, 2012, 03:06:00 PM
I'm not sure what mistake you made, but I'd say the next step is to make plans to hang out with her. Did you have something in mind?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: John of the North on April 21, 2012, 03:18:28 PM
All right, so I got my driver's license (Yay!) and I got to talking with a girl I'm interested in. I wanted to ask her out, but I wound up going with "Would you be interested in hanging out sometime?" in a text message because I'm stupid and cowardly and stuff. But she did say yes, so that's a plus. Having made what I've been told elsewhere is a mistake, how should I take things from here?

I'm no Casanova, but this seems like good advice: http://artofmanliness.com/2008/01/16/stop-hanging-out-with-women-and-start-dating-them/
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 22, 2012, 02:28:04 AM
I love impressing women with my musical abilities :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on April 22, 2012, 02:29:16 AM
All right, so I got my driver's license (Yay!) and I got to talking with a girl I'm interested in. I wanted to ask her out, but I wound up going with "Would you be interested in hanging out sometime?" in a text message because I'm stupid and cowardly and stuff. But she did say yes, so that's a plus. Having made what I've been told elsewhere is a mistake, how should I take things from here?

I'm no Casanova, but this seems like good advice: http://artofmanliness.com/2008/01/16/stop-hanging-out-with-women-and-start-dating-them/
*Reads URL*

No.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: orthonorm on April 22, 2012, 02:38:52 AM
Spring has sprung. Men and women cannot resist. Looking like a cancer surviving survivor still ain't got in my way this evening.

You just got it or you don't.

I put the nova into your casa.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 22, 2012, 02:40:02 AM
I love impressing women with my musical abilities :)

The great thing about music and women is that you don't even have to play an instrument. Just put a guitar or piano in your place and let them assume that you play it. Then casually say something like: "Yeah, I used to be really good, even thought about going to Highfalutin school of music in Boston to study it when I was younger, but I gave it up years ago because I wanted to focus on more important things, like volunteering at the local animal shelter." Instant success!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 22, 2012, 12:34:16 PM
Hahaha. Isn't James in his mid-teens or thereabouts? Something tells me that story won't work in his case, Asteriktos. Unless he wants to try to say that he was some kind of wunderkind at age 5 or something, then moved on to bigger and better things. :D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on April 22, 2012, 01:13:50 PM
All right, so I got my driver's license (Yay!) and I got to talking with a girl I'm interested in. I wanted to ask her out, but I wound up going with "Would you be interested in hanging out sometime?" in a text message because I'm stupid and cowardly and stuff. But she did say yes, so that's a plus. Having made what I've been told elsewhere is a mistake, how should I take things from here?
Wait you don't know this girl enough yet to ask her out. Hanging out is perfectly fine and the way to go, for right now. Once you hang out and you want to date her, just tell her if she wants to go out for a date. Simple as that. If she says no, no big deal right? It's not like you gave her your heart/soul/mind already. Plenty of other women out there.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: That person on April 22, 2012, 03:45:24 PM
Thanks for the tips everyone.
I love impressing women with my musical abilities :)
Bo Burnham shows how it's done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdbP6cSFJXs
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 23, 2012, 12:00:58 AM
All right, so I got my driver's license (Yay!) and I got to talking with a girl I'm interested in. I wanted to ask her out, but I wound up going with "Would you be interested in hanging out sometime?" in a text message because I'm stupid and cowardly and stuff. But she did say yes, so that's a plus. Having made what I've been told elsewhere is a mistake, how should I take things from here?

I just recently got dumped via text message.  I am scared of those things now so I have no advice to offer you.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 23, 2012, 12:12:11 AM
Clearly the girl who dumped you had not read the aforelinked guide to manliness, Vamrat. Shame on her. You don't dump someone via text message. Grow some cajones, lady...sheesh. (By which I mean: Sorry to hear about that.)

Seriously, though...stories like that make me think that actually having the chutzpah to talk to someone without using electronic mediators should practically guarantee you a date, That Person. Of course, your young lady friend is probably of the generation and mindset that would dump someone via text, so that's probably not how it works. It should be, though.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 23, 2012, 07:13:29 AM
Clearly the girl who dumped you had not read the aforelinked guide to manliness, Vamrat. Shame on her. You don't dump someone via text message. Grow some cajones, lady...sheesh. (By which I mean: Sorry to hear about that.)

Seriously, though...stories like that make me think that actually having the chutzpah to talk to someone without using electronic mediators should practically guarantee you a date, That Person. Of course, your young lady friend is probably of the generation and mindset that would dump someone via text, so that's probably not how it works. It should be, though.

Well, there were mitigating factors.  We were conversing via text message at the time because I was at work and we usually talked via text message because she was partially deaf.  So yeah, there were mitigating factors for the method of the deed, and while I'm glad it's over and done with, it does not make her any less of a f****** b****-a** c***.   ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 23, 2012, 11:28:04 AM
(f)abulus (sic) (b)lond - (a)nd (c)ute, for any moderators trying to figure out what you wrote.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on April 23, 2012, 11:57:42 AM
(f)abulus (sic) (b)lond - (a)nd (c)ute, for any moderators trying to figure out what you wrote.

 :D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on April 23, 2012, 12:58:23 PM
(f)abulus (sic) (b)lond - (a)nd (c)ute, for any moderators trying to figure out what you wrote.

If I spelled "fabulous" so horribly I'd use asterisks, too. Spell check, Vamrat, spell check!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 23, 2012, 01:10:13 PM
(f)abulus (sic) (b)lond - (a)nd (c)ute, for any moderators trying to figure out what you wrote.

She wasn't blonde, but the other two were correct... :'(
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 23, 2012, 02:05:20 PM
(f)abulus (sic) (b)lond - (a)nd (c)ute, for any moderators trying to figure out what you wrote.

She wasn't blonde, but the other two were correct... :'(

Hey, I had to work with what you gave me.  I did not want you to get a warning over this like I did  :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 23, 2012, 02:59:59 PM
Any advice for dating your best friend's sister? There is no better way to put it; she is absolutely amazing in every way. She's a gorgeous, hot blonde with amazing looks, yet also one of the sweetest, kindest persons I have ever met. She wants to settle down one day with children, she never judges people or talks behind their back as far as I know and she is also extremely religious. The only problem is that she is a 'non-denom' Protestant, however, she seems open minded to Orthodoxy. I have to have this girl. Only problem is she rejected me because she is not single right now :(
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on April 23, 2012, 03:09:35 PM
Any advice for dating your best friend's sister? There is no better way to put it; she is absolutely amazing in every way. She's a gorgeous, hot blonde with amazing looks, yet also one of the sweetest, kindest persons I have ever met. She wants to settle down one day with children, she never judges people or talks behind their back as far as I know and she is also extremely religious. The only problem is that she is a 'non-denom' Protestant, however, she seems open minded to Orthodoxy. I have to have this girl. Only problem is she rejected me because she is not single right now :(

See the bolded part there? Yeah, that's a "no".

Other things to stay away from? Best friend's mom, best friend's ex, best friend's (who are of the feminine persuasion).
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 23, 2012, 03:12:11 PM
Any advice for dating your best friend's sister? There is no better way to put it; she is absolutely amazing in every way. She's a gorgeous, hot blonde with amazing looks, yet also one of the sweetest, kindest persons I have ever met. She wants to settle down one day with children, she never judges people or talks behind their back as far as I know and she is also extremely religious. The only problem is that she is a 'non-denom' Protestant, however, she seems open minded to Orthodoxy. I have to have this girl. Only problem is she rejected me because she is not single right now :(

See the bolded part there? Yeah, that's a "no".

Other things to stay away from? Best friend's mom, best friend's ex, best friend's (who are of the feminine persuasion).

I asked my friend and he said it was all right because I'm his best friend and he can trust me. But will it still make things awkward? You don't understand. She's BLONDE and has a good personality. I'm never going to meet a woman who is as beautiful as her yet still so nice. Every other attractive BLONDE woman I have met was not so nice or intelligent. She's a diamond in the rough. Where else am I going to meet an attractive blonde who is actually nice and intelligent?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 23, 2012, 03:14:03 PM
Uh...take a cold shower? If you have to 'have' this girl even though she's not single, something tells me you're going to keep getting rejected. I'm no Mr. Smooth, but even I know that women do not like being made into objects to be possessed, and like to have their personal boundaries (e.g., "I'm in a relationship right now, so no, thank you" or the like) respected, same as any people.

Let it go, let it go, let it go. Sorry to repeat myself, but it will help you remember.

(Also, as others have mentioned, she's your best friend's sister. Don't even think about it. You ever heard the phrase "don't (poop) where you eat"? That. Exactly that. Nothing good can come of that, even if your best friend said you could. That green light, in reality, means nothing anyway. He's not his sister's pimp or chaperone. Once again, let it go.)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 23, 2012, 03:14:43 PM
Any advice for dating your best friend's sister? There is no better way to put it; she is absolutely amazing in every way. She's a gorgeous, hot blonde with amazing looks, yet also one of the sweetest, kindest persons I have ever met. She wants to settle down one day with children, she never judges people or talks behind their back as far as I know and she is also extremely religious. The only problem is that she is a 'non-denom' Protestant, however, she seems open minded to Orthodoxy. I have to have this girl. Only problem is she rejected me because she is not single right now :(

Personally, I find my bolded part to be the major issue.  

Is she your friend's older or younger sister?  That could make a difference.  Keep in mind if things go south you could be left without a friend and a girlfriend.  Oh, and if you cheat on her, invest in Class III body armour.  No less, don't skimp on that Class II crap.  A Tokarev is pretty cheap and will swiss cheese that stuff.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 23, 2012, 03:17:45 PM
Any advice for dating your best friend's sister? There is no better way to put it; she is absolutely amazing in every way. She's a gorgeous, hot blonde with amazing looks, yet also one of the sweetest, kindest persons I have ever met. She wants to settle down one day with children, she never judges people or talks behind their back as far as I know and she is also extremely religious. The only problem is that she is a 'non-denom' Protestant, however, she seems open minded to Orthodoxy. I have to have this girl. Only problem is she rejected me because she is not single right now :(

See the bolded part there? Yeah, that's a "no".

Other things to stay away from? Best friend's mom, best friend's ex, best friend's (who are of the feminine persuasion).

I asked my friend and he said it was all right because I'm his best friend and he can trust me. But will it still make things awkward? You don't understand. She's BLONDE and has a good personality. I'm never going to meet a woman who is as beautiful as her yet still so nice. Every other attractive BLONDE woman I have met was not so nice or intelligent. She's a diamond in the rough. Where else am I going to meet an attractive blonde who is actually nice and intelligent?

Don't get hung up on how she looks.  My "fabulus blond-and cute" girl probably took craps that were prettier than most women could aspire to be.  I assure you, looks are not everything.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 23, 2012, 03:18:27 PM
 
Is she your friend's older or younger sister?

They are actually twins and she is older by seven seconds. And the looks aren't everything. She truly does have a personality that is amazing. She freaking helps homeless people for crying out loud.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on April 23, 2012, 03:19:39 PM
Any advice for dating your best friend's sister? There is no better way to put it; she is absolutely amazing in every way. She's a gorgeous, hot blonde with amazing looks, yet also one of the sweetest, kindest persons I have ever met. She wants to settle down one day with children, she never judges people or talks behind their back as far as I know and she is also extremely religious. The only problem is that she is a 'non-denom' Protestant, however, she seems open minded to Orthodoxy. I have to have this girl. Only problem is she rejected me because she is not single right now :(

See the bolded part there? Yeah, that's a "no".

Other things to stay away from? Best friend's mom, best friend's ex, best friend's (who are of the feminine persuasion).

I asked my friend and he said it was all right because I'm his best friend and he can trust me. But will it still make things awkward? You don't understand. She's BLONDE and has a good personality. I'm never going to meet a woman who is as beautiful as her yet still so nice. Every other attractive BLONDE woman I have met was not so nice or intelligent. She's a diamond in the rough. Where else am I going to meet an attractive blonde who is actually nice and intelligent?

Yeah, what you've described? Not a diamond in the rough. That's a diamond that's been mined, chiseled, evaluated, and set in a fancy gold ring.

That other girl that you haven't looked twice (and is not your best friend's sister) at because the BLONDE is in the room? That's the diamond in the rough.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 23, 2012, 03:21:09 PM
That other girl that you haven't looked twice (and is not your best friend's sister) at because the BLONDE is in the room? That's the diamond in the rough.

Are you referring to the girl at my Church I mentioned around Pascha? She is actually blonde too...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 23, 2012, 03:24:10 PM
All right, so basically you gentlemen are telling me that even though she is amazingly hot and goodhearted, I should let it go because not only is she not single, but because it could entirely ruin my relationship with my friend?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 23, 2012, 03:25:24 PM
What really helps in situations like these is to take that part of your body that makes you a male and slam it in a door two or three times.  That will allow you to think more clearly about these matters.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 23, 2012, 03:27:29 PM
What really helps in situations like these is to take that part of your body that makes you a male and slam it in a door two or three times.  That will allow you to think more clearly about these matters.

You might be correct. I have trouble making him listen to reason sometimes. He can be quite pursuasive...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on April 23, 2012, 03:28:26 PM
That other girl that you haven't looked twice (and is not your best friend's sister) at because the BLONDE is in the room? That's the diamond in the rough.

Are you referring to the girl at my Church I mentioned around Pascha? She is actually blonde too...

No, not that one either. Diamond in the rough = person (in this case, girl) with qualities you haven't noticed because you're too busy getting distracted by all the obvious shinies.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 23, 2012, 03:29:44 PM
All right, so basically you gentlemen are telling me that even though she is amazingly hot and goodhearted, I should let it go because not only is she not single, but because it could entirely ruin my relationship with my friend?

For starts, IMHO you "should let it go because not only is she [is] not single".

Otherwise, neither FormerReformer (I assume) nor I know your relationship with your best friend, so take what we say with a grain of salt.  But in my experience "I trust you because you are my best friend" is code word for "go for it if you want but if you do anything to hurt her I will tie you to a bed, emasculate you, amputate your arms and legs with a rusty circular saw, than beat you to death with a wiffle-ball bat".  Just an FYI.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 23, 2012, 03:30:58 PM
What really helps in situations like these is to take that part of your body that makes you a male and slam it in a door two or three times.  That will allow you to think more clearly about these matters.

You might be correct. I have trouble making him listen to reason sometimes. He can be quite pursuasive...

Let's face it.  If it wasn't for Mr. Happy, all a woman would be to us is a dude who has no Happy and has them replaced by two funny tumors on their chest.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 23, 2012, 03:39:04 PM
Wow. That's just...wow. This thread sure took a "juice box and fingerpainting" turn fairly suddenly...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 23, 2012, 05:40:12 PM
I have to have this girl.

A girl is not a rare pokemon.

Only problem is she rejected me because she is not single right now :(

You thought the good Christian girl would have done otherwise?

Honestly, James ...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on April 23, 2012, 07:25:29 PM
I have to have this girl.

A girl is not a rare pokemon.


Lies.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 23, 2012, 07:56:25 PM
All right, so basically you gentlemen are telling me that even though she is amazingly hot and goodhearted, I should let it go because not only is she not single, but because it could entirely ruin my relationship with my friend?

For starts, IMHO you "should let it go because not only is she [is] not single".

Otherwise, neither FormerReformer (I assume) nor I know your relationship with your best friend, so take what we say with a grain of salt.  But in my experience "I trust you because you are my best friend" is code word for "go for it if you want but if you do anything to hurt her I will tie you to a bed, emasculate you, amputate your arms and legs with a rusty circular saw, than beat you to death with a wiffle-ball bat".  Just an FYI.

A girl is SINGLE until she is married (or at least engaged).  It explains a lot if you guys think that any female withing 10 feet of a male is somehow not single.  It may explain why you guys are still single.  Thankfully, I stole a girl away from her boyfriend and actually MARRIED her, and we have been together for 31 years.  As to going after your best friend's sister, go for it.  Friends are a liability.  A wife is something to hold on to (and hopefully a REAL friend for you for the rest of your life).  For what it is worth, I have known several guys who have had their best friend cheat with their wife.  That will probably not be a problem with this arrangement.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on April 23, 2012, 08:03:17 PM
All right, so basically you gentlemen are telling me that even though she is amazingly hot and goodhearted, I should let it go because not only is she not single, but because it could entirely ruin my relationship with my friend?

For starts, IMHO you "should let it go because not only is she [is] not single".

Otherwise, neither FormerReformer (I assume) nor I know your relationship with your best friend, so take what we say with a grain of salt.  But in my experience "I trust you because you are my best friend" is code word for "go for it if you want but if you do anything to hurt her I will tie you to a bed, emasculate you, amputate your arms and legs with a rusty circular saw, than beat you to death with a wiffle-ball bat".  Just an FYI.

A girl is SINGLE until she is married (or at least engaged).  It explains a lot if you guys think that any female withing 10 feet of a male is somehow not single.  It may explain why you guys are still single.  Thankfully, I stole a girl away from her boyfriend and actually MARRIED her, and we have been together for 31 years.  As to going after your best friend's sister, go for it.  Friends are a liability.  A wife is something to hold on to (and hopefully a REAL friend for you for the rest of your life).  For what it is worth, I have known several guys who have had their best friend cheat with their wife.  That will probably not be a problem with this arrangement.

+1
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 23, 2012, 08:11:06 PM
I asked my friend and he said it was all right because I'm his best friend and he can trust me. But will it still make things awkward?

I dated the sister of one of my friends when I was in high school. It wasn't awkward during the time we were dating (not with my friend, anyway), but when I broke up with his sister it was a bit awkward. All of a sudden I was the guy who "hurt" his sister because I didn't want to go out with her anymore. Though I'm pretty sure all was forgotten after a couple weeks, so it wasn't too big a deal.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 23, 2012, 08:15:47 PM
All right, so basically you gentlemen are telling me that even though she is amazingly hot and goodhearted, I should let it go because not only is she not single, but because it could entirely ruin my relationship with my friend?

For starts, IMHO you "should let it go because not only is she [is] not single".

Otherwise, neither FormerReformer (I assume) nor I know your relationship with your best friend, so take what we say with a grain of salt.  But in my experience "I trust you because you are my best friend" is code word for "go for it if you want but if you do anything to hurt her I will tie you to a bed, emasculate you, amputate your arms and legs with a rusty circular saw, than beat you to death with a wiffle-ball bat".  Just an FYI.

A girl is SINGLE until she is married (or at least engaged).  It explains a lot if you guys think that any female withing 10 feet of a male is somehow not single.  It may explain why you guys are still single.  Thankfully, I stole a girl away from her boyfriend and actually MARRIED her, and we have been together for 31 years.  As to going after your best friend's sister, go for it.  Friends are a liability.  A wife is something to hold on to (and hopefully a REAL friend for you for the rest of your life).  For what it is worth, I have known several guys who have had their best friend cheat with their wife.  That will probably not be a problem with this arrangement.

Glad someone said it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on April 23, 2012, 08:53:45 PM
All right, so basically you gentlemen are telling me that even though she is amazingly hot and goodhearted, I should let it go because not only is she not single, but because it could entirely ruin my relationship with my friend?

For starts, IMHO you "should let it go because not only is she [is] not single".

Otherwise, neither FormerReformer (I assume) nor I know your relationship with your best friend, so take what we say with a grain of salt.  But in my experience "I trust you because you are my best friend" is code word for "go for it if you want but if you do anything to hurt her I will tie you to a bed, emasculate you, amputate your arms and legs with a rusty circular saw, than beat you to death with a wiffle-ball bat".  Just an FYI.

A girl is SINGLE until she is married (or at least engaged).  It explains a lot if you guys think that any female withing 10 feet of a male is somehow not single.  It may explain why you guys are still single.  Thankfully, I stole a girl away from her boyfriend and actually MARRIED her, and we have been together for 31 years.  As to going after your best friend's sister, go for it.  Friends are a liability.  A wife is something to hold on to (and hopefully a REAL friend for you for the rest of your life).  For what it is worth, I have known several guys who have had their best friend cheat with their wife.  That will probably not be a problem with this arrangement.

Agree with the first half (note, I said nothing about her having a boyfriend in my posts), but if the bolded part is how you view friends, Punch, I feel sorry for you. In my experience, it's often women who turn out to be the bigger liability- a girlfriend (who does not become a wife) is a dime a dozen and often wasted drama and almost always a passing experience, a good friendship usually tends to be more stable and long-lasting- friendship certainly can come to an end, especially when one or both parties get married and start families and priorities naturally shift, but usually without the earth-shaking explosives of a "relationship" blowing up.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 23, 2012, 09:13:08 PM
I think I might have misunderstood the boyfriend bit. I thought that the girl had specifically shot James down because she didn't want to be with him, but rather with the guy that she is with (which I suppose still shouldn't necessarily stop you from trying, just be aware that there is a line between "persistent" and "JamesR, you must stay 500 feet away from ______ at all times"). Anyway, if it's a matter of a girl who likes you but happens to be with some dork, then I completely reverse what I wrote earlier: I think you should go for it. But also keep a few things in mind:

1) It's high school, so it probably won't matter if she dumps that guy.
2) It's high school, so it probably won't matter if she dumps you later. (Not trying to be cruel, just that most people don't marry their high school sweethearts...thank God.)
3) Knowing that you want to date her means that you actually have to go for it. Don't wait around hoping that she'll magically realize that you'd be a great date. You have to make the effort and assume the risk that it'll go/end badly (but refer to points 1 and 2; that's probably not a big deal, all told).
4) If you can't work up the guts to deal with (3) [and you wouldn't be the first to have that problem], then forget about her and date someone else. I like the other poster's "diamond in the rough" observation. There are all kinds of ladies out there, and you never know who you'll really hit it off with until you try.

I'm still not convinced about the friend's sister part, though. I guess it depends on the friendship. You willing to give it up for a chance to date the sister? Potentially get into a really sticky/messy/potentially violent (hey...we all know some families are like that) situation? Then it might be worth it. It wasn't in my experience (not because of the friend, but because of other family members...ugh), but maybe you'll have a better experience. :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 23, 2012, 09:33:58 PM
You thought the good Christian girl would have done otherwise?

Honestly, James ...

What are you talking about? I don't understand you or what you think I meant.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 23, 2012, 09:36:09 PM
You thought the good Christian girl would have done otherwise?

Honestly, James ...

What are you talking about? I don't understand you or what you think I meant.

You say this girl is good-hearted and a Christian, right?

Notwithstanding what has been said earlier in this thread about "stealing" other people's girlfriends, I would expect that such a girl would have feelings of loyalty and affection towards her current boyfriend.

Or am I misunderstanding your comment about her not being single?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 23, 2012, 09:40:30 PM
Yeah, what did you mean, James? Cos apparently I didn't get it either.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 23, 2012, 09:42:45 PM
There are no vows exchanged in an Orthodox marriage because it is assumed that there is a relationship of mutual fidelity and loyalty between those who approach before they are crowned and drink from the cup.

I suppose I am a sentimentalist for respecting such a relationship before it is formalised.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on April 23, 2012, 09:43:20 PM
I have to have this girl.
Dude, go get a bicycle and ride it around or something.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 23, 2012, 09:44:07 PM
I have to have this girl.
Dude, go get a bicycle and ride it around or something.

Alternatively, I will trade you my master ball for a shiny charizard.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on April 23, 2012, 09:45:02 PM
You thought the good Christian girl would have done otherwise?

Honestly, James ...
I think she should seek out the help of a Staretz to confess this grave sin of not immediately leaving her boyfriend for James.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 23, 2012, 09:46:37 PM
Never mind.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on April 23, 2012, 09:48:41 PM
Never mind.
You're right, I think Severian should weigh in.  :police:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 23, 2012, 09:54:16 PM
All right, so basically you gentlemen are telling me that even though she is amazingly hot and goodhearted, I should let it go because not only is she not single, but because it could entirely ruin my relationship with my friend?

For starts, IMHO you "should let it go because not only is she [is] not single".

Otherwise, neither FormerReformer (I assume) nor I know your relationship with your best friend, so take what we say with a grain of salt.  But in my experience "I trust you because you are my best friend" is code word for "go for it if you want but if you do anything to hurt her I will tie you to a bed, emasculate you, amputate your arms and legs with a rusty circular saw, than beat you to death with a wiffle-ball bat".  Just an FYI.

A girl is SINGLE until she is married (or at least engaged).  It explains a lot if you guys think that any female withing 10 feet of a male is somehow not single.  It may explain why you guys are still single.  Thankfully, I stole a girl away from her boyfriend and actually MARRIED her, and we have been together for 31 years.  As to going after your best friend's sister, go for it.  Friends are a liability.  A wife is something to hold on to (and hopefully a REAL friend for you for the rest of your life).  For what it is worth, I have known several guys who have had their best friend cheat with their wife.  That will probably not be a problem with this arrangement.

If you're going to go after a girl with a boyfriend why not one with a husband?  They are only degrees of difference.  In the end it's damaging to someone else.  I may be limiting my operational flexibility, but I'd rather be single.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on April 23, 2012, 09:55:36 PM
Any advice for dating your best friend's sister? There is no better way to put it; she is absolutely amazing in every way. She's a gorgeous, hot blonde with amazing looks, yet also one of the sweetest, kindest persons I have ever met. She wants to settle down one day with children, she never judges people or talks behind their back as far as I know and she is also extremely religious. The only problem is that she is a 'non-denom' Protestant, however, she seems open minded to Orthodoxy. I have to have this girl. Only problem is she rejected me because she is not single right now :(

See the bolded part there? Yeah, that's a "no".

Other things to stay away from? Best friend's mom, best friend's ex, best friend's (who are of the feminine persuasion).

I asked my friend and he said it was all right because I'm his best friend and he can trust me. But will it still make things awkward? You don't understand. She's BLONDE and has a good personality. I'm never going to meet a woman who is as beautiful as her yet still so nice. Every other attractive BLONDE woman I have met was not so nice or intelligent. She's a diamond in the rough. Where else am I going to meet an attractive blonde who is actually nice and intelligent?

The parts I've bolder stick out to me.

James, I want you to know that I'm not being condescending when I say this, and I'm definitely not trying to be a jerk, but, what are you? Fifteen? Sixteen? (I can't remember.) If you want to date this girl (after thoughtfully weighing the pros and cons with the best friend situation... And by thoughtfully I mean say, in a cold shower and not while you're in the same room with her), then go for it. But don't put all your eggs in this basket. You have a lot of life yet to live, and a lot of people yet to meet, and a lot of self-discovery yet to do. So yeah, she may seem like the best thing ever that you're never going to top right now, but you need to keep perspective or dating is going to go a lot rougher for you than it has to.

Also- as akimori makoto pointed out, girls aren't things you collect, and that "have to have this girl" line made me go "Blech" when I read it. I wouldn't say it to her, were I you.  ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 23, 2012, 10:06:49 PM
All right, so basically you gentlemen are telling me that even though she is amazingly hot and goodhearted, I should let it go because not only is she not single, but because it could entirely ruin my relationship with my friend?

For starts, IMHO you "should let it go because not only is she [is] not single".

Otherwise, neither FormerReformer (I assume) nor I know your relationship with your best friend, so take what we say with a grain of salt.  But in my experience "I trust you because you are my best friend" is code word for "go for it if you want but if you do anything to hurt her I will tie you to a bed, emasculate you, amputate your arms and legs with a rusty circular saw, than beat you to death with a wiffle-ball bat".  Just an FYI.

A girl is SINGLE until she is married (or at least engaged).  It explains a lot if you guys think that any female withing 10 feet of a male is somehow not single.  It may explain why you guys are still single.  Thankfully, I stole a girl away from her boyfriend and actually MARRIED her, and we have been together for 31 years.  As to going after your best friend's sister, go for it.  Friends are a liability.  A wife is something to hold on to (and hopefully a REAL friend for you for the rest of your life).  For what it is worth, I have known several guys who have had their best friend cheat with their wife.  That will probably not be a problem with this arrangement.

If you're going to go after a girl with a boyfriend why not one with a husband?  They are only degrees of difference.  In the end it's damaging to someone else.  I may be limiting my operational flexibility, but I'd rather be single.

Why?  Because one is adultery and the other is not.  If you cannot see the difference, then single you will remain.  Why can I marry and not a monk?  Is it just degrees of difference? NO!  One has taken a vow before God NOT to marry, and the other has not.  Likewise the difference between a boyfriend and a husband (and in the Orthodox understanding, and engaged woman is as good as married).  One has made a PERMANENT commitment, and the other has not.  I have no sympathy for a man that will not commit to a woman, but just goes about with a "why buy the cow" attitude.  He deserves to have her taken by someone who will commit to her.  If he really loved her, he should have married her.  Perhaps a bit old fashioned, but I am not the one looking for a wife.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 23, 2012, 10:09:47 PM
Also- as akimori makoto pointed out, girls aren't things you collect, and that "have to have this girl" line made me go "Blech" when I read it. I wouldn't say it to her, were I you.  ;)

So I take it that this guy (http://youtu.be/Y2OhSeuuiSo) doesn't stand a chance with you?  ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 23, 2012, 10:14:28 PM
There are no vows exchanged in an Orthodox marriage because it is assumed that there is a relationship of mutual fidelity and loyalty between those who approach before they are crowned and drink from the cup.

I suppose I am a sentimentalist for respecting such a relationship before it is formalised.

Yes, that is what an engagement is for.  No blessing yet, but a definite commitment.  That is why there is a ring.  Were I single, I would stay away from a girl that had either an engagement ring or a wedding band.  However, no band, no commitment (at least not one that I would hesitate to interrupt if the opportunity presented itself).  Besides, no self respecting girl is going to leave a relationship where she is happy.  But, I have seen to many jerks out their that treat their girlfriends like dirt or property.  I would steal a good girl from one of these in a heartbeat and be proud I did it.  Heck, I did.



Obscenity replaced with something more appropriate  -PtA
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on April 23, 2012, 10:22:26 PM
Also- as akimori makoto pointed out, girls aren't things you collect, and that "have to have this girl" line made me go "Blech" when I read it. I wouldn't say it to her, were I you.  ;)

So I take it that this guy (http://youtu.be/Y2OhSeuuiSo) doesn't stand a chance with you?  ;D

If someone said that to me in real life, I would pull a Stanley:

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyhg28Wzes1rnq3i2o2_250.gif)

 :D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 23, 2012, 10:31:46 PM
There are no vows exchanged in an Orthodox marriage because it is assumed that there is a relationship of mutual fidelity and loyalty between those who approach before they are crowned and drink from the cup.

I suppose I am a sentimentalist for respecting such a relationship before it is formalised.

Besides, no self respecting girl is going to leave a relationship where she is happy.

I guess this is the bottom line, but I still think it's a bit legalistic and untrue to reality to think that, once the ring goes on, some special magic happens which should serve to keep third parties away.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 23, 2012, 10:42:55 PM
All right, so basically you gentlemen are telling me that even though she is amazingly hot and goodhearted, I should let it go because not only is she not single, but because it could entirely ruin my relationship with my friend?

For starts, IMHO you "should let it go because not only is she [is] not single".

Otherwise, neither FormerReformer (I assume) nor I know your relationship with your best friend, so take what we say with a grain of salt.  But in my experience "I trust you because you are my best friend" is code word for "go for it if you want but if you do anything to hurt her I will tie you to a bed, emasculate you, amputate your arms and legs with a rusty circular saw, than beat you to death with a wiffle-ball bat".  Just an FYI.

A girl is SINGLE until she is married (or at least engaged).  It explains a lot if you guys think that any female withing 10 feet of a male is somehow not single.  It may explain why you guys are still single.  Thankfully, I stole a girl away from her boyfriend and actually MARRIED her, and we have been together for 31 years.  As to going after your best friend's sister, go for it.  Friends are a liability.  A wife is something to hold on to (and hopefully a REAL friend for you for the rest of your life).  For what it is worth, I have known several guys who have had their best friend cheat with their wife.  That will probably not be a problem with this arrangement.

If you're going to go after a girl with a boyfriend why not one with a husband?  They are only degrees of difference.  In the end it's damaging to someone else.  I may be limiting my operational flexibility, but I'd rather be single.

Why?  Because one is adultery and the other is not.  If you cannot see the difference, then single you will remain.  Why can I marry and not a monk?  Is it just degrees of difference? NO!  One has taken a vow before God NOT to marry, and the other has not.  Likewise the difference between a boyfriend and a husband (and in the Orthodox understanding, and engaged woman is as good as married).  One has made a PERMANENT commitment, and the other has not.  I have no sympathy for a man that will not commit to a woman, but just goes about with a "why buy the cow" attitude.  He deserves to have her taken by someone who will commit to her.  If he really loved her, he should have married her.  Perhaps a bit old fashioned, but I am not the one looking for a wife.

I wouldn't be trying to get up an Orthodox woman's skirt, married or otherwise.  What about a heretic or a pagan who has no valid sacramental marriage before God?  Are they married? 

If I went after a girl in a relationship there are two possible outcomes.  1- I get shot down.  Despite the frequency that I do this, I do not enjoy it by any stretch of the word like.  I'd just as soon not get in this position.  2- She goes out with me.  If she's with a POS who's treating her poorly and doesn't leave him, she's welcome to him.  If she's not with a POS why would I do that to the guy?  Worst case scenario she's the sort who will run off anytime someone newer or shinier comes along.  What's to stop her doing the same to me?

It's just not worth the effort.  I'm single but there are certainly worse things.  Scaphism and being in a crappy relationship both come to mind.  There are plenty of others.  I'm not complaining because I cannot find a bad relationship.  I am plenty capable of that.  It's that I cannot find a good one.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 23, 2012, 10:48:17 PM
*Sigh* I guess that you're right. It isn't very nice to steal someone else's girlfriend, even if he is some skinny nerd in converse and a beanie. I'll have to find my own girl.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 23, 2012, 10:49:25 PM
*Sigh* I guess that you're right. It isn't very nice to steal someone else's girlfriend, even if he is some skinny nerd in converse and a beanie. I'll have to find my own girl.

Hey, he's the one with the hot girlfriend.

Sorry to pick on you but, honestly, dude ...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 23, 2012, 10:50:12 PM
Re: Dating a girl with a boyfriend

I think there is something to be said for being deliberate. Reading other people's responses got me remembering some of things that I went through when I was around James' age. There was a girl in one of my classes who, for reasons I will never understand (as I was very ineffectual back then), really, really liked me. And she was sweet and cute and all that stuff, but the more I got to know her and see her home life, the more I realized that it would be better to be her friend without expecting or wanting anything more, as it didn't seem to me like she had any friends like that, and she depended a lot on her boyfriends for escape from her very sad home situation. She had a boyfriend at the time (a real piece of work; looked and acted like one of those meathead types who would always try to run me and my friends over in the school parking lot), and knowing what a jerk he was made it kind of hard to listen whenever she said things like "If only I could break up with _____ (boyfriend) without everything going to hell, I would go out with you in a second", which she said a lot (to the point of becoming annoying to me). But again...I had realized, thank God, that I had more to offer as a real friend than as another negative/unstable influence in her life, and besides it is not about me and how I could potentially manipulate a situation to get something out of it.

So I really question this whole "it is okay for me to 'steal' a woman who is with a jerk because he is a jerk" idea. I don't think I'll go as far as saying that it's wrong, full stop (because, after all, had the surrounding circumstances of this girl's life been different, I'd like to think I would have done something different), but I dunno...I like being able to look back on that particular situation and still say now, about 15 years later, that I did the right thing. I heard from the girl (now young woman) in question about 6 months ago for the first time in about 13 years, and it did nothing but confirm that this was the right course of action: She'd been through one spectacularly failed marriage and about a dozen further boyfriends since I last saw her, and followed some of these cretins around the country because she was still in a "relationship-for-rent" kind of arrangement. God bless her, she's doing well now, but man...talk about dodging a bullet. Also, getting a nice e-mail from her saying that she remembers me fondly and hopes I'm doing well...well, not to get too darn sappy, but that means a lot. I know it might be hard to imagine, James, but some things really are better than getting to be with a hot girl for a little while before you drift apart and go to separate colleges, or she dumps you for some guy who's locker is closer to hers, or whatever other reason high school-aged boys and girls have for falling in and out of infatuation with one another.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 23, 2012, 10:54:10 PM
*Sigh* I guess that you're right. It isn't very nice to steal someone else's girlfriend, even if he is some skinny nerd in converse and a beanie. I'll have to find my own girl.

Hey, he's the one with the hot girlfriend.

Sorry to pick on you but, honestly, dude ...

PS: I'm skinny and wear Converse, haha.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 23, 2012, 10:59:04 PM
Oh well, I am out of here.  I will let you lonely hearts try to figure it out on your own.  Heck, what does a 51 year old married guy know about women and love.  Have fun.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 23, 2012, 11:08:09 PM
Woah...I make one or two stupid comments and I get all of this? Eh, I cannot say that it was not well deserved...Okay I'll follow the elderly advice I received in this thread.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 23, 2012, 11:14:00 PM
Woah...I make one or two stupid comments and I get all of this? Eh, I cannot say that it was not well deserved...Okay I'll follow the elderly advice I received in this thread.

Not you.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 23, 2012, 11:18:41 PM
I was referring to everybody, Mr Punch, not you. Also, for some reason since you are very elderly, I feel inclined to respectfully address you as 'Mr.'
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on April 23, 2012, 11:25:41 PM
I was referring to everybody, Mr Punch, not you. Also, for some reason since you are very elderly, I feel inclined to respectfully address you as 'Mr.'
Dude, 51 is elderly?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on April 23, 2012, 11:26:40 PM
since you are very elderly

LMAO
(http://www.gabelhouse.com/DL-Laugh.jpg)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 23, 2012, 11:27:30 PM
Hahaha, yeah. Very elderly? Punch, were you stowed away on the Titanic?  ;)

Anyway, I bow to your superior knowledge, Punch, but maybe a good lesson to learn (and not just for James) is that love, romance, dating and the like is not a 'one-size-fits-all' deal. After all, my own father is a significant number of years older than you are and is currently working his way toward his fourth divorce, or so goes the family joke (as she is significantly younger than me, his youngest son, and does not have a firm grasp on the English language, none of the rest of the family have high hopes for this one; boy...I don't relish having to go home for the holidays this year...something tells me that dating a friend's sister will have nothing on the awkwardness of our family gatherings come December! ;D)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Cognomen on April 23, 2012, 11:32:02 PM
I will trade you my master ball for a shiny charizard.

Geez Akimori; it's a Christian forum, and I'm not sure if what you describe is legal... even in Oz.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 24, 2012, 12:04:23 AM
I will trade you my master ball for a shiny charizard.

Geez Akimori; it's a Christian forum, and I'm not sure if what you describe is legal... even in Oz.

I have ... particular tastes ...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on April 24, 2012, 01:29:02 AM
I have to have this girl.
Dude, go get a bicycle and ride it around or something.

Alternatively, I will trade you my master ball for a shiny charizard.
Or JamesR can date women like a PokeBall. Gotta catch em all!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 24, 2012, 03:49:14 AM
So I really question this whole "it is okay for me to 'steal' a woman who is with a jerk because he is a jerk" idea.

The thing is, you *can't* steal a woman. He doesn't own her, and if you 'get' her, you won't own her either. Unless you're doing it caveman style with an actual club, all you're actually doing is offering another human being a choice. If the two of them have made a permanent commitment to each other (i.e., engaged much less married) then you shouldn't tempt someone to break that commitment. But if they haven't made that commitment then they are both still free-willed individuals with a right to make their own choices--and a right to know what those choices are. I haven't been married as long as Punch, but, yes, my wife was dating someone else when I first started to pursue her. He didn't properly appreciate what he had, so I had no qualms about doing my best to make her happier than she was.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: LizaSymonenko on April 24, 2012, 11:54:53 AM

 :o   ....and they say women are hard to understand.  Just look at you guys.  Sheesh!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on April 24, 2012, 12:03:40 PM
What is wrong with you people? It's like John Galt meets Casanova.

When you screw with an existing relationship, you are screwing with people AND THAT IS WRONG. You don't go in and try to persuade someone who is already in a relationship to start dating you. IT IS PLAIN WRONG.

Stop this childish discussion already.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 12:35:14 PM

 :o   ....and they say women are hard to understand.  Just look at you guys.  Sheesh!

Yes, the feminization of the American male is almost complete  :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: primuspilus on April 24, 2012, 12:37:51 PM

 :o   ....and they say women are hard to understand.  Just look at you guys.  Sheesh!

Yes, the feminization of the American male is almost complete  :)
There are some holdouts :)

PP
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: LizaSymonenko on April 24, 2012, 12:44:59 PM

 :o   ....and they say women are hard to understand.  Just look at you guys.  Sheesh!

Yes, the feminization of the American male is almost complete  :)

It's a truly sad state of affairs....as what women really want is a man's man!  ;)

As for taking another's girlfriend.....

Remember, she's not married yet.  If she were.....she would most definitely be hands off!

However, if a man (other than her boyfriend) shows interest in her and she reciprocates....then was she truly in love with the original boyfriend?

Boys, when a girl is truly in love....nobody could tear her from  her man.  Women forgive all kinds of crap, put up with all kinds of nonsense, worry, stress....all about their man and whether he still loves her, thinks she's fat, has lost interest....all because we love and want to keep him.

So, if she is not married (or engaged), she is still on the market.

Note to the men.... you shouldn't be having "girlfriends"....you should have a wife!

If you have a girlfriend, then you simply are out for fun, and aren't looking for a marriage.  If you aren't going to marry her, then let her go to someone who hopefully will.

I know it hurts....but, hopefully, the original boyfriend will learn, find a new girl and marry her sooner than later.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 24, 2012, 12:53:34 PM
So I really question this whole "it is okay for me to 'steal' a woman who is with a jerk because he is a jerk" idea.

The thing is, you *can't* steal a woman. He doesn't own her, and if you 'get' her, you won't own her either.

I know that. That's why I put 'steal' in quotes like that. My point was more that it is bad to manipulate situations for your own advantage. Yes, you're offering them a choice which they may freely accept or decline, but as you're coming in from the outside with your own agenda, you can't really appreciate the situation as it is (separate from what you'd like to get out of it), so it's not really honest to frame it as saving a woman from a jerk. To make messing up a pre-existing relationship into some act of chivalry...I don't know...it just seems weird. Unless you're saving her from an abusive relationship, then I don't see what is to be celebrated or encouraged in such behavior, and I suspect that if that were the case, you probably wouldn't date her (out of consideration for her circumstances). I'm not sure that such consideration for the uniqueness of her circumstances goes into every situation in which a man is convinced that he's better than the clod that she's with. It seems like another way of making a woman into an object, but for some reason it is celebrated because the results were positive for the people advocating it in this thread, whereas James' "I must have her" is being looked down upon because it doesn't have a bunch of rationalizations attached to it. Hmm. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, from where I'm sitting. Maybe all men are, at heart, 16 years old. I know I am. :) But because of previous experience (retold above), this is not something I would be comfortable with as a general principle.

But again, I'm not sure the circumstances in which James was previously shot down by this girl. If she likes you enough to send the other guy packing, go for it. I've been in that situation before (she broke up with her guy in order to be with me). It didn't work out, but it was worth the effort because it could have worked out, and you don't know until you go for it.

Ahhh, life is weird.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 01:08:20 PM
My faith that real women are still out there has been restored!  Very well said. 


 :o   ....and they say women are hard to understand.  Just look at you guys.  Sheesh!

Yes, the feminization of the American male is almost complete  :)

It's a truly sad state of affairs....as what women really want is a man's man!  ;)

As for taking another's girlfriend.....

Remember, she's not married yet.  If she were.....she would most definitely be hands off!

However, if a man (other than her boyfriend) shows interest in her and she reciprocates....then was she truly in love with the original boyfriend?

Boys, when a girl is truly in love....nobody could tear her from  her man.  Women forgive all kinds of crap, put up with all kinds of nonsense, worry, stress....all about their man and whether he still loves her, thinks she's fat, has lost interest....all because we love and want to keep him.

So, if she is not married (or engaged), she is still on the market.

Note to the men.... you shouldn't be having "girlfriends"....you should have a wife!

If you have a girlfriend, then you simply are out for fun, and aren't looking for a marriage.  If you aren't going to marry her, then let her go to someone who hopefully will.

I know it hurts....but, hopefully, the original boyfriend will learn, find a new girl and marry her sooner than later.


Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on April 24, 2012, 01:16:05 PM

Ahhh, life is weird.

Not really.  What is weird though, is this thread.  High-schoolers dispensing dating advice is oxymoronic.  Like jumbo shrimp or a cheap, but good pipe.  Thus far, I wouldn't consider any of it 'advice'.  More like 'high-school strategy'.  Older, more mature marrieds believing said teenagers will hear and listen to your advice is naive at best.  Teenagers are waaay cooler than that.  Besides, high-schoolers date high-schoolers and no advice or strategy will work in that confused, pimple-ridden, raging hormone soup.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 24, 2012, 01:28:22 PM
You guys are giving me some killer ideas for future posts. (http://boomersberg.com/wp-content/uploads/image/wlEmoticon-thumbsup3.png)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 24, 2012, 02:01:11 PM
You guys are giving me some killer ideas for future posts. (http://boomersberg.com/wp-content/uploads/image/wlEmoticon-thumbsup3.png)

God save us all...   ;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 24, 2012, 02:04:47 PM
All right I humble myself before all of you. Are there any final pieces of advice/guidance all of you bickering gentlemen would share with me?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 24, 2012, 02:06:00 PM
All right I humble myself before all of you. Are there any final pieces of advice/guidance all of you bickering gentlemen would share with me?

Don't let your girlfriend/wife date other people. Trust me on this.  :police:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on April 24, 2012, 02:08:13 PM
All right I humble myself before all of you. Are there any final pieces of advice/guidance all of you bickering gentlemen would share with me?

Never pet a burning dog.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 24, 2012, 02:08:40 PM

Ahhh, life is weird.

Not really.  What is weird though, is this thread.  High-schoolers dispensing dating advice is oxymoronic.  Like jumbo shrimp or a cheap, but good pipe.  Thus far, I wouldn't consider any of it 'advice'.  More like 'high-school strategy'.  Older, more mature marrieds believing said teenagers will hear and listen to your advice is naive at best.  Teenagers are waaay cooler than that.  Besides, high-schoolers date high-schoolers and no advice or strategy will work in that confused, pimple-ridden, raging hormone soup.

The high-schooler is the one asking the advice.  It seems that the old married people (I don't know how old/married witega is but he's included) are backing up his high school ideas where as the young twenty-somethings are the ones disagreeing with it.

Where do you stand on dating a girl already in a relationship?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 24, 2012, 03:02:19 PM
All right I humble myself before all of you. Are there any final pieces of advice/guidance all of you bickering gentlemen would share with me?

Never pet a burning dog.

What does that mean?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on April 24, 2012, 03:11:39 PM

Ahhh, life is weird.

Not really.  What is weird though, is this thread.  High-schoolers dispensing dating advice is oxymoronic.  Like jumbo shrimp or a cheap, but good pipe.  Thus far, I wouldn't consider any of it 'advice'.  More like 'high-school strategy'.  Older, more mature marrieds believing said teenagers will hear and listen to your advice is naive at best.  Teenagers are waaay cooler than that.  Besides, high-schoolers date high-schoolers and no advice or strategy will work in that confused, pimple-ridden, raging hormone soup.

The high-schooler is the one asking the advice.  It seems that the old married people (I don't know how old/married witega is but he's included) are backing up his high school ideas where as the young twenty-somethings are the ones disagreeing with it.

Where do you stand on dating a girl already in a relationship?

 I was speaking in general terms, but based on many of the replies and advice, I think my assessment sticks.  Re: dating a girl already in a relationship?  First off, I'm married and my wife would lay hell down on me if I even considered it.  :)  But seriously, I wouldn't attempt it because it's messy, too prone for drama, and I'm of the school that sees relationships should form more organically than attempt some sort of relationship coup.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 24, 2012, 03:23:48 PM
What is wrong with you people? It's like John Galt meets Casanova.

When you screw with an existing relationship, you are screwing with people AND THAT IS WRONG. You don't go in and try to persuade someone who is already in a relationship to start dating you. IT IS PLAIN WRONG.

Stop this childish discussion already.

Oh please.

If the relationship is important enough to you that losing her will actually damage you, then do the right thing and MARRY her. If she says 'no' or 'not yet', then at least you'll know where you stand--which is that she is still keeping her options open, and you've got no reason to complain if she exercises that option. And by not asking her, you are letting her and everyone else know that you are doing the same.

Commitments matter--they are what adults make. Playground rules do not.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 24, 2012, 03:26:16 PM
(I don't know how old/married witega is but he's included)

Not quite as old or married as long as Punch--but if he's very elderly, then I'm definitely in the old category as well.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 03:27:12 PM
Oh please.

If the relationship is important enough to you that losing her will actually damage you, then do the right thing and MARRY her. If she says 'no' or 'not yet', then at least you'll know where you stand--which is that she is still keeping her options open, and you've got no reason to complain if she exercises that option. And by not asking her, you are letting her and everyone else know that you are doing the same.

Commitments matter--they are what adults make. Playground rules do not.

Amen.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 24, 2012, 03:36:09 PM
(I don't know how old/married witega is but he's included)

Not quite as old or married as long as Punch--but if he's very elderly, then I'm definitely in the old category as well.

And to supplement that, I'm also speaking as the father of two beautiful, intelligent, talented Cradle Orthodox daughters. So I have a very vested interest in young Orthodox men getting their priorities straight.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 24, 2012, 04:14:14 PM
What is wrong with you people? It's like John Galt meets Casanova.

When you screw with an existing relationship, you are screwing with people AND THAT IS WRONG. You don't go in and try to persuade someone who is already in a relationship to start dating you. IT IS PLAIN WRONG.

Stop this childish discussion already.

Oh please.

If the relationship is important enough to you that losing her will actually damage you, then do the right thing and MARRY her. If she says 'no' or 'not yet', then at least you'll know where you stand--which is that she is still keeping her options open, and you've got no reason to complain if she exercises that option. And by not asking her, you are letting her and everyone else know that you are doing the same.

Commitments matter--they are what adults make. Playground rules do not.

When should this commitment take place?  Within a month?  A few days?  Several hours?  I think that a marriage should be at least partly thought out.  Perhaps I am wrong.  If I had asked the last girl I dated to marry me after two or three dates she probably would have dumped me a whole lot sooner, which might have been a good thing.  The first girl I dated, when it got to the point that I knew that if I married her it would just be setting us up for a real fun divorce I did break up with her.  It took a while and was probably the hardest thing that I've done in my life (and yes, God has been punishing me for it) but I did it.  And now she is with someone who loves her a lot and is probably a better match for her anyway.  All the same, sometimes it takes years for these things to become apparent to both parties.  I don't think jumping into marriage right away in a country with no-fault divorce laws (and a resulting 50% divorce rate) is intelligent at all.  I also believe that when two people are in the process of trying to work this out to see if they like each other, other pricks people should have the common decent courtesy to stay out of it.

Replaced a profanity with a non-profanity. Second Chance
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on April 24, 2012, 04:18:15 PM
See, these problems in this thread all come out of the prohibition of polygamy.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 24, 2012, 04:36:03 PM
See, these problems in this thread all come out of the prohibition of polygamy.

Polygamy, homosexuality, prostitution.  I guess no one said that Christianity would be easy.  The only proscribed method is a giant PITA.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 24, 2012, 04:56:38 PM
What is wrong with you people? It's like John Galt meets Casanova.

When you screw with an existing relationship, you are screwing with people AND THAT IS WRONG. You don't go in and try to persuade someone who is already in a relationship to start dating you. IT IS PLAIN WRONG.

Stop this childish discussion already.

Oh please.

If the relationship is important enough to you that losing her will actually damage you, then do the right thing and MARRY her. If she says 'no' or 'not yet', then at least you'll know where you stand--which is that she is still keeping her options open, and you've got no reason to complain if she exercises that option. And by not asking her, you are letting her and everyone else know that you are doing the same.

Commitments matter--they are what adults make. Playground rules do not.

When should this commitment take place?  Within a month?  A few days?  Several hours?  I think that a marriage should be at least partly thought out.  Perhaps I am wrong.  If I had asked the last girl I dated to marry me after two or three dates she probably would have dumped me a whole lot sooner, which might have been a good thing.  The first girl I dated, when it got to the point that I knew that if I married her it would just be setting us up for a real fun divorce I did break up with her.  It took a while and was probably the hardest thing that I've done in my life (and yes, God has been punishing me for it) but I did it.  And now she is with someone who loves her a lot and is probably a better match for her anyway.  All the same, sometimes it takes years for these things to become apparent to both parties.  I don't think jumping into marriage right away in a country with no-fault divorce laws (and a resulting 50% divorce rate) is intelligent at all.  I also believe that when two people are in the process of trying to work this out to see if they like each other, other pricks should have the common decent courtesy to stay out of it.

 ::) I'm not advocating that anyone get married after 3 dates. But then I'm also not advocating that anyone make any kind of commitment after 3 dates.  And frankly, if you would experience anything more severe than mild disappointment if a girl you had been on 3 dates with dumped you then you  need to think about getting help of some kind because that is way too obsessive. And to your second point, I have never seen any evidence (either in personal experience or in the statistical studies on marriage that are put out from time to time) that people who take years to figure it out are any more successful at making a marriage work than those who who make up their mind within the first year--if anything the opposite is true for one simple fact: Whether you take 1 year or 5 years to 'figure out' if she's the right person, in 10 years neither she nor you are going to be the same person. What makes a marriage work is the commitment by both parties to *make* it work regardless of the fact that you are both going to keep growing and changing over time. People who take 5 years figuring out if their partner is the perfect partner are guaranteed to be disappointed when after 10 years she's not quite as perfect as she was at 5.

What I am saying is that the commitment and the emotional investment need to go together. If you are still 'figuring it out' then you need to extend her the same courtesy--and not only her but everyone who knows her. If you haven't actually committed to a lifetime, why would you expect her to ignore other options that might be better for her?

You can try to blame the 'prick' all you want, but if someone else makes her happier than you do, you have no one but yourself to truly blame.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 24, 2012, 05:09:03 PM
What is wrong with you people? It's like John Galt meets Casanova.

When you screw with an existing relationship, you are screwing with people AND THAT IS WRONG. You don't go in and try to persuade someone who is already in a relationship to start dating you. IT IS PLAIN WRONG.

Stop this childish discussion already.

Oh please.

If the relationship is important enough to you that losing her will actually damage you, then do the right thing and MARRY her. If she says 'no' or 'not yet', then at least you'll know where you stand--which is that she is still keeping her options open, and you've got no reason to complain if she exercises that option. And by not asking her, you are letting her and everyone else know that you are doing the same.

Commitments matter--they are what adults make. Playground rules do not.

When should this commitment take place?  Within a month?  A few days?  Several hours?  I think that a marriage should be at least partly thought out.  Perhaps I am wrong.  If I had asked the last girl I dated to marry me after two or three dates she probably would have dumped me a whole lot sooner, which might have been a good thing.  The first girl I dated, when it got to the point that I knew that if I married her it would just be setting us up for a real fun divorce I did break up with her.  It took a while and was probably the hardest thing that I've done in my life (and yes, God has been punishing me for it) but I did it.  And now she is with someone who loves her a lot and is probably a better match for her anyway.  All the same, sometimes it takes years for these things to become apparent to both parties.  I don't think jumping into marriage right away in a country with no-fault divorce laws (and a resulting 50% divorce rate) is intelligent at all.  I also believe that when two people are in the process of trying to work this out to see if they like each other, other pricks should have the common decent courtesy to stay out of it.

 ::) I'm not advocating that anyone get married after 3 dates. But then I'm also not advocating that anyone make any kind of commitment after 3 dates.  And frankly, if you would experience anything more severe than mild disappointment if a girl you had been on 3 dates with dumped you then you  need to think about getting help of some kind because that is way too obsessive.

It got to about 6 or 7 dates, and it was some pretty major disappointment. But don't worry, I did get some help.  I just refilled the prescription today!  Theoretically I should be speaking to my priest sometime this week for some additional help...supposing he calls me back.

Quote
And to your second point, I have never seen any evidence (either in personal experience or in the statistical studies on marriage that are put out from time to time) that people who take years to figure it out are any more successful at making a marriage work than those who who make up their mind within the first year--if anything the opposite is true for one simple fact: Whether you take 1 year or 5 years to 'figure out' if she's the right person, in 10 years neither she nor you are going to be the same person. What makes a marriage work is the commitment by both parties to *make* it work regardless of the fact that you are both going to keep growing and changing over time. People who take 5 years figuring out if their partner is the perfect partner are guaranteed to be disappointed when after 10 years she's not quite as perfect as she was at 5.

What I am saying is that the commitment and the emotional investment need to go together. If you are still 'figuring it out' then you need to extend her the same courtesy--and not only her but everyone who knows her. If you haven't actually committed to a lifetime, why would you expect her to ignore other options that might be better for her?

You can try to blame the 'prick' all you want, but if someone else makes her happier than you do, you have no one but yourself to truly blame.

Well, you've obviously been more successful at it then I have been, but we are going to have to agree to disagree.  I think that trying to get with a woman already in a relationship is morally reprehensible.  I'm not going to do it.  If I am going to end up lonely the rest of my life then so be it.  I've been that way a lot longer than I haven't.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 05:16:22 PM
Enjoy your solitude.

What is wrong with you people? It's like John Galt meets Casanova.

When you screw with an existing relationship, you are screwing with people AND THAT IS WRONG. You don't go in and try to persuade someone who is already in a relationship to start dating you. IT IS PLAIN WRONG.

Stop this childish discussion already.

Oh please.

If the relationship is important enough to you that losing her will actually damage you, then do the right thing and MARRY her. If she says 'no' or 'not yet', then at least you'll know where you stand--which is that she is still keeping her options open, and you've got no reason to complain if she exercises that option. And by not asking her, you are letting her and everyone else know that you are doing the same.

Commitments matter--they are what adults make. Playground rules do not.

When should this commitment take place?  Within a month?  A few days?  Several hours?  I think that a marriage should be at least partly thought out.  Perhaps I am wrong.  If I had asked the last girl I dated to marry me after two or three dates she probably would have dumped me a whole lot sooner, which might have been a good thing.  The first girl I dated, when it got to the point that I knew that if I married her it would just be setting us up for a real fun divorce I did break up with her.  It took a while and was probably the hardest thing that I've done in my life (and yes, God has been punishing me for it) but I did it.  And now she is with someone who loves her a lot and is probably a better match for her anyway.  All the same, sometimes it takes years for these things to become apparent to both parties.  I don't think jumping into marriage right away in a country with no-fault divorce laws (and a resulting 50% divorce rate) is intelligent at all.  I also believe that when two people are in the process of trying to work this out to see if they like each other, other pricks should have the common decent courtesy to stay out of it.

 ::) I'm not advocating that anyone get married after 3 dates. But then I'm also not advocating that anyone make any kind of commitment after 3 dates.  And frankly, if you would experience anything more severe than mild disappointment if a girl you had been on 3 dates with dumped you then you  need to think about getting help of some kind because that is way too obsessive.

It got to about 6 or 7 dates, and it was some pretty major disappointment. But don't worry, I did get some help.  I just refilled the prescription today!  Theoretically I should be speaking to my priest sometime this week for some additional help...supposing he calls me back.

Quote
And to your second point, I have never seen any evidence (either in personal experience or in the statistical studies on marriage that are put out from time to time) that people who take years to figure it out are any more successful at making a marriage work than those who who make up their mind within the first year--if anything the opposite is true for one simple fact: Whether you take 1 year or 5 years to 'figure out' if she's the right person, in 10 years neither she nor you are going to be the same person. What makes a marriage work is the commitment by both parties to *make* it work regardless of the fact that you are both going to keep growing and changing over time. People who take 5 years figuring out if their partner is the perfect partner are guaranteed to be disappointed when after 10 years she's not quite as perfect as she was at 5.

What I am saying is that the commitment and the emotional investment need to go together. If you are still 'figuring it out' then you need to extend her the same courtesy--and not only her but everyone who knows her. If you haven't actually committed to a lifetime, why would you expect her to ignore other options that might be better for her?

You can try to blame the 'prick' all you want, but if someone else makes her happier than you do, you have no one but yourself to truly blame.

Well, you've obviously been more successful at it then I have been, but we are going to have to agree to disagree.  I think that trying to get with a woman already in a relationship is morally reprehensible.  I'm not going to do it.  If I am going to end up lonely the rest of my life then so be it.  I've been that way a lot longer than I haven't.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 24, 2012, 05:25:00 PM
Enjoy your solitude.

What is wrong with you people? It's like John Galt meets Casanova.

When you screw with an existing relationship, you are screwing with people AND THAT IS WRONG. You don't go in and try to persuade someone who is already in a relationship to start dating you. IT IS PLAIN WRONG.

Stop this childish discussion already.

Oh please.

If the relationship is important enough to you that losing her will actually damage you, then do the right thing and MARRY her. If she says 'no' or 'not yet', then at least you'll know where you stand--which is that she is still keeping her options open, and you've got no reason to complain if she exercises that option. And by not asking her, you are letting her and everyone else know that you are doing the same.

Commitments matter--they are what adults make. Playground rules do not.

When should this commitment take place?  Within a month?  A few days?  Several hours?  I think that a marriage should be at least partly thought out.  Perhaps I am wrong.  If I had asked the last girl I dated to marry me after two or three dates she probably would have dumped me a whole lot sooner, which might have been a good thing.  The first girl I dated, when it got to the point that I knew that if I married her it would just be setting us up for a real fun divorce I did break up with her.  It took a while and was probably the hardest thing that I've done in my life (and yes, God has been punishing me for it) but I did it.  And now she is with someone who loves her a lot and is probably a better match for her anyway.  All the same, sometimes it takes years for these things to become apparent to both parties.  I don't think jumping into marriage right away in a country with no-fault divorce laws (and a resulting 50% divorce rate) is intelligent at all.  I also believe that when two people are in the process of trying to work this out to see if they like each other, other pricks should have the common decent courtesy to stay out of it.

 ::) I'm not advocating that anyone get married after 3 dates. But then I'm also not advocating that anyone make any kind of commitment after 3 dates.  And frankly, if you would experience anything more severe than mild disappointment if a girl you had been on 3 dates with dumped you then you  need to think about getting help of some kind because that is way too obsessive.

It got to about 6 or 7 dates, and it was some pretty major disappointment. But don't worry, I did get some help.  I just refilled the prescription today!  Theoretically I should be speaking to my priest sometime this week for some additional help...supposing he calls me back.

Quote
And to your second point, I have never seen any evidence (either in personal experience or in the statistical studies on marriage that are put out from time to time) that people who take years to figure it out are any more successful at making a marriage work than those who who make up their mind within the first year--if anything the opposite is true for one simple fact: Whether you take 1 year or 5 years to 'figure out' if she's the right person, in 10 years neither she nor you are going to be the same person. What makes a marriage work is the commitment by both parties to *make* it work regardless of the fact that you are both going to keep growing and changing over time. People who take 5 years figuring out if their partner is the perfect partner are guaranteed to be disappointed when after 10 years she's not quite as perfect as she was at 5.

What I am saying is that the commitment and the emotional investment need to go together. If you are still 'figuring it out' then you need to extend her the same courtesy--and not only her but everyone who knows her. If you haven't actually committed to a lifetime, why would you expect her to ignore other options that might be better for her?

You can try to blame the 'prick' all you want, but if someone else makes her happier than you do, you have no one but yourself to truly blame.

Well, you've obviously been more successful at it then I have been, but we are going to have to agree to disagree.  I think that trying to get with a woman already in a relationship is morally reprehensible.  I'm not going to do it.  If I am going to end up lonely the rest of my life then so be it.  I've been that way a lot longer than I haven't.

I wasn't planning on it, but if the only way is to get with a girl already attached or go with out, it's the lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 05:49:47 PM

I wasn't planning on it, but if the only way is to get with a girl already attached or go with out, it's the lesser of two evils.

There is no evil except what you have made of it.  Fr. Sasa once said that we are not to be more merciful than God.  We should also not try to be more pious than God.  Courtship is a process that has been around for as long as there has been civilization.  It is competition.  Do not try to hide your fear of competition under some false morality.  Do not try to make up some bulls**t about some imagined "evil" in what is the NORMAL courtship process.  I know what I tell you does not mean anything to you, but you have also had a father of two girls tell you the same thing, and a very Godly woman who has also said the same thing.  I guess we are all wrong.  I guess what was wrong was to try to be serious in a thread that is pretty much a joke.   
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Jonathan Gress on April 24, 2012, 05:56:59 PM
Whatever you do, stay away from pick-up artists.

http://xkcd.com/1027/
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Jonathan Gress on April 24, 2012, 05:58:13 PM

I wasn't planning on it, but if the only way is to get with a girl already attached or go with out, it's the lesser of two evils.

There is no evil except what you have made of it.  Fr. Sasa once said that we are not to be more merciful than God.  We should also not try to be more pious than God.  Courtship is a process that has been around for as long as there has been civilization.  It is competition.  Do not try to hide your fear of competition under some false morality.  Do not try to make up some bulls**t about some imagined "evil" in what is the NORMAL courtship process.  I know what I tell you does not mean anything to you, but you have also had a father of two girls tell you the same thing, and a very Godly woman who has also said the same thing.  I guess we are all wrong.  I guess what was wrong was to try to be serious in a thread that is pretty much a joke.   

I think you should go easy on him. He's a young guy who's not successful with women; of course he's going to feel bitter about it. Maybe some constructive criticism, instead of just making him feel even more bitter?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 24, 2012, 06:47:38 PM
What is wrong with you people? It's like John Galt meets Casanova.

When you screw with an existing relationship, you are screwing with people AND THAT IS WRONG. You don't go in and try to persuade someone who is already in a relationship to start dating you. IT IS PLAIN WRONG.

Stop this childish discussion already.

Oh please.

If the relationship is important enough to you that losing her will actually damage you, then do the right thing and MARRY her. If she says 'no' or 'not yet', then at least you'll know where you stand--which is that she is still keeping her options open, and you've got no reason to complain if she exercises that option. And by not asking her, you are letting her and everyone else know that you are doing the same.

Commitments matter--they are what adults make. Playground rules do not.

When should this commitment take place?  Within a month?  A few days?  Several hours?  I think that a marriage should be at least partly thought out.  Perhaps I am wrong.  If I had asked the last girl I dated to marry me after two or three dates she probably would have dumped me a whole lot sooner, which might have been a good thing.  The first girl I dated, when it got to the point that I knew that if I married her it would just be setting us up for a real fun divorce I did break up with her.  It took a while and was probably the hardest thing that I've done in my life (and yes, God has been punishing me for it) but I did it.  And now she is with someone who loves her a lot and is probably a better match for her anyway.  All the same, sometimes it takes years for these things to become apparent to both parties.  I don't think jumping into marriage right away in a country with no-fault divorce laws (and a resulting 50% divorce rate) is intelligent at all.  I also believe that when two people are in the process of trying to work this out to see if they like each other, other pricks should have the common decent courtesy to stay out of it.

 ::) I'm not advocating that anyone get married after 3 dates. But then I'm also not advocating that anyone make any kind of commitment after 3 dates.  And frankly, if you would experience anything more severe than mild disappointment if a girl you had been on 3 dates with dumped you then you  need to think about getting help of some kind because that is way too obsessive. And to your second point, I have never seen any evidence (either in personal experience or in the statistical studies on marriage that are put out from time to time) that people who take years to figure it out are any more successful at making a marriage work than those who who make up their mind within the first year--if anything the opposite is true for one simple fact: Whether you take 1 year or 5 years to 'figure out' if she's the right person, in 10 years neither she nor you are going to be the same person. What makes a marriage work is the commitment by both parties to *make* it work regardless of the fact that you are both going to keep growing and changing over time. People who take 5 years figuring out if their partner is the perfect partner are guaranteed to be disappointed when after 10 years she's not quite as perfect as she was at 5.

What I am saying is that the commitment and the emotional investment need to go together. If you are still 'figuring it out' then you need to extend her the same courtesy--and not only her but everyone who knows her. If you haven't actually committed to a lifetime, why would you expect her to ignore other options that might be better for her?

You can try to blame the 'prick' all you want, but if someone else makes her happier than you do, you have no one but yourself to truly blame.

This analysis is so untrue to reality, I do not know where to begin with it.

I have spent too much time in the Family Court to believe that such legalism has any force in reality (I say this to short-circuit the inevitable criticism of my lack of experience).

When did we, as Orthodox Christians, become such great respectors of godless legal marriage, anyway? The ring goes on the finger and suddenly the seal of the godless state is sacrosanct? What does the ring even mean in a no-fault jurisdiction? It can all be undone with a little paperwork ...

I think your fundamental point is sound: that a wife or girlfriend is not property and one has no continually abiding ownership of her affection (which she is free to give to someone else at any time). Your case is damaged by your failure to recognise that the reality is somewhat more messy and less principled. The law is necessarily black-and-white, but reality is not.

Boyfriends and girlfriends break up all the time because one of them has found someone else. That is the reality. It is not, however, something to be gloried in and celebrated down at the pub on the Friday night, like a win in the NFL. I find discussing the subject with such a tone most disquieting.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 24, 2012, 07:01:53 PM
Marriage scares me, have you people seen the divorce laws and how common divorce is in North America? I don't want to marry someone then get a divorce and be stuck paying alimony forever and potentially lose my children.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 07:23:43 PM

I wasn't planning on it, but if the only way is to get with a girl already attached or go with out, it's the lesser of two evils.

There is no evil except what you have made of it.  Fr. Sasa once said that we are not to be more merciful than God.  We should also not try to be more pious than God.  Courtship is a process that has been around for as long as there has been civilization.  It is competition.  Do not try to hide your fear of competition under some false morality.  Do not try to make up some bulls**t about some imagined "evil" in what is the NORMAL courtship process.  I know what I tell you does not mean anything to you, but you have also had a father of two girls tell you the same thing, and a very Godly woman who has also said the same thing.  I guess we are all wrong.  I guess what was wrong was to try to be serious in a thread that is pretty much a joke.   

I think you should go easy on him. He's a young guy who's not successful with women; of course he's going to feel bitter about it. Maybe some constructive criticism, instead of just making him feel even more bitter?

Believe me, I know him far better than you do.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on April 24, 2012, 07:33:19 PM
Marriage scares me, have you people seen the divorce laws and how common divorce is in North America? I don't want to marry someone then get a divorce and be stuck paying alimony forever and potentially lose my children.

How common is divorce?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on April 24, 2012, 07:48:13 PM
All right I humble myself before all of you. Are there any final pieces of advice/guidance all of you bickering gentlemen would share with me?

Never pet a burning dog.

What does that mean?

Exactly what it says. You asked for final pieces of advice/guidance, and someone told me that a long time ago. I think it's just general good advice, don't you?  :D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 08:00:58 PM
Marriage scares me, have you people seen the divorce laws and how common divorce is in North America? I don't want to marry someone then get a divorce and be stuck paying alimony forever and potentially lose my children.

So then, what is the alternative?  Live together until you are tired of each other? 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 08:01:43 PM
All right I humble myself before all of you. Are there any final pieces of advice/guidance all of you bickering gentlemen would share with me?

Never pet a burning dog.

What does that mean?

Exactly what it says. You asked for final pieces of advice/guidance, and someone told me that a long time ago. I think it's just general good advice, don't you?  :D

Pretty good advice as far as I can see.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 24, 2012, 08:11:13 PM
What is wrong with you people? It's like John Galt meets Casanova.

When you screw with an existing relationship, you are screwing with people AND THAT IS WRONG. You don't go in and try to persuade someone who is already in a relationship to start dating you. IT IS PLAIN WRONG.

Stop this childish discussion already.

Oh please.

If the relationship is important enough to you that losing her will actually damage you, then do the right thing and MARRY her. If she says 'no' or 'not yet', then at least you'll know where you stand--which is that she is still keeping her options open, and you've got no reason to complain if she exercises that option. And by not asking her, you are letting her and everyone else know that you are doing the same.

Commitments matter--they are what adults make. Playground rules do not.

When should this commitment take place?  Within a month?  A few days?  Several hours?  I think that a marriage should be at least partly thought out.  Perhaps I am wrong.  If I had asked the last girl I dated to marry me after two or three dates she probably would have dumped me a whole lot sooner, which might have been a good thing.  The first girl I dated, when it got to the point that I knew that if I married her it would just be setting us up for a real fun divorce I did break up with her.  It took a while and was probably the hardest thing that I've done in my life (and yes, God has been punishing me for it) but I did it.  And now she is with someone who loves her a lot and is probably a better match for her anyway.  All the same, sometimes it takes years for these things to become apparent to both parties.  I don't think jumping into marriage right away in a country with no-fault divorce laws (and a resulting 50% divorce rate) is intelligent at all.  I also believe that when two people are in the process of trying to work this out to see if they like each other, other pricks should have the common decent courtesy to stay out of it.

 ::) I'm not advocating that anyone get married after 3 dates. But then I'm also not advocating that anyone make any kind of commitment after 3 dates.  And frankly, if you would experience anything more severe than mild disappointment if a girl you had been on 3 dates with dumped you then you  need to think about getting help of some kind because that is way too obsessive. And to your second point, I have never seen any evidence (either in personal experience or in the statistical studies on marriage that are put out from time to time) that people who take years to figure it out are any more successful at making a marriage work than those who who make up their mind within the first year--if anything the opposite is true for one simple fact: Whether you take 1 year or 5 years to 'figure out' if she's the right person, in 10 years neither she nor you are going to be the same person. What makes a marriage work is the commitment by both parties to *make* it work regardless of the fact that you are both going to keep growing and changing over time. People who take 5 years figuring out if their partner is the perfect partner are guaranteed to be disappointed when after 10 years she's not quite as perfect as she was at 5.

What I am saying is that the commitment and the emotional investment need to go together. If you are still 'figuring it out' then you need to extend her the same courtesy--and not only her but everyone who knows her. If you haven't actually committed to a lifetime, why would you expect her to ignore other options that might be better for her?

You can try to blame the 'prick' all you want, but if someone else makes her happier than you do, you have no one but yourself to truly blame.

This analysis is so untrue to reality, I do not know where to begin with it.

I have spent too much time in the Family Court to believe that such legalism has any force in reality (I say this to short-circuit the inevitable criticism of my lack of experience).

When did we, as Orthodox Christians, become such great respectors of godless legal marriage, anyway? The ring goes on the finger and suddenly the seal of the godless state is sacrosanct? What does the ring even mean in a no-fault jurisdiction? It can all be undone with a little paperwork ...

I think your fundamental point is sound: that a wife or girlfriend is not property and one has no continually abiding ownership of her affection (which she is free to give to someone else at any time). Your case is damaged by your failure to recognise that the reality is somewhat more messy and less principled. The law is necessarily black-and-white, but reality is not.

Boyfriends and girlfriends break up all the time because one of them has found someone else. That is the reality. It is not, however, something to be gloried in and celebrated down at the pub on the Friday night, like a win in the NFL. I find discussing the subject with such a tone most disquieting.

I have no idea what you think you are responding to.

First, when did "Orthodox Christians, become such great respectors of godless legal marriage, anyway", I'd have to ask what evidence you have that it's 'become'. The command of marriage was given in Eden as one of the very first commands God gave the human race, and I have never seen anything in the Fathers other than that it has always applied to the entire human race. When Christ speaks of marriage and adultery in Matthew 5 and St. Paul speaks of it in 1 Cor 7 and Eph 5, they were speaking to audiences that did not know any marriage other than the civil ceremony you are so quick to dismiss (Marriage as an actual sacrament performed by the Church with associated Grace was not implemented by the Church until several centuries later).

Second, Punch and I have clearly and consistently distinguished between dating/courtship and engaged/married. To start mixing girlfriends and wives in your response is to either miss the point entirely or to continue the argument that there is no difference between the married state and the single--I know you think it's legalistic, but, again, your thinking cannot be supported from the Scriptures and Fathers who clearly do see the two as different things--if I convince a woman to leave her husband and marry me, we have both committed adultery, per Christ himself. If I convince a woman to leave her boyfriend and marry me--then all the Church says is that we're married--and that's a good thing.

Third, I do not consider my marriage a game. After my commitment to God (and inextricably tied to it), my marriage is the most important thing in my life. I am completely serious in discussing marriage--and therefore I was completely serious about my search for a wife, and in any advice I give others with respect to it. Yes, if you go after a woman strictly because you are competing with the current man in her life, that would be wrong. So would be practicing deceit or using violence or doing any thing else which is a sin in and of itself whether its associated with courtship or not.

(Finally, Family Court? Yes, that is experience. But it's experience with broken relationships, not with what goes into a successful courtship and marriage--i.e., I know several dozen ways to break my computer, but would be completely clueless about how to build one)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 24, 2012, 08:16:15 PM
Marriage scares me, have you people seen the divorce laws and how common divorce is in North America? I don't want to marry someone then get a divorce and be stuck paying alimony forever and potentially lose my children.

If you don't want to get married, don't date. Hang out with people as friends until you change your mind--but if you open the door to physical affection when marriage is not on the table you're just playing with fire as far as sexual sin goes.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 24, 2012, 08:34:35 PM
What is wrong with you people? It's like John Galt meets Casanova.

When you screw with an existing relationship, you are screwing with people AND THAT IS WRONG. You don't go in and try to persuade someone who is already in a relationship to start dating you. IT IS PLAIN WRONG.

Stop this childish discussion already.

Oh please.

If the relationship is important enough to you that losing her will actually damage you, then do the right thing and MARRY her. If she says 'no' or 'not yet', then at least you'll know where you stand--which is that she is still keeping her options open, and you've got no reason to complain if she exercises that option. And by not asking her, you are letting her and everyone else know that you are doing the same.

Commitments matter--they are what adults make. Playground rules do not.

When should this commitment take place?  Within a month?  A few days?  Several hours?  I think that a marriage should be at least partly thought out.  Perhaps I am wrong.  If I had asked the last girl I dated to marry me after two or three dates she probably would have dumped me a whole lot sooner, which might have been a good thing.  The first girl I dated, when it got to the point that I knew that if I married her it would just be setting us up for a real fun divorce I did break up with her.  It took a while and was probably the hardest thing that I've done in my life (and yes, God has been punishing me for it) but I did it.  And now she is with someone who loves her a lot and is probably a better match for her anyway.  All the same, sometimes it takes years for these things to become apparent to both parties.  I don't think jumping into marriage right away in a country with no-fault divorce laws (and a resulting 50% divorce rate) is intelligent at all.  I also believe that when two people are in the process of trying to work this out to see if they like each other, other pricks should have the common decent courtesy to stay out of it.

 ::) I'm not advocating that anyone get married after 3 dates. But then I'm also not advocating that anyone make any kind of commitment after 3 dates.  And frankly, if you would experience anything more severe than mild disappointment if a girl you had been on 3 dates with dumped you then you  need to think about getting help of some kind because that is way too obsessive. And to your second point, I have never seen any evidence (either in personal experience or in the statistical studies on marriage that are put out from time to time) that people who take years to figure it out are any more successful at making a marriage work than those who who make up their mind within the first year--if anything the opposite is true for one simple fact: Whether you take 1 year or 5 years to 'figure out' if she's the right person, in 10 years neither she nor you are going to be the same person. What makes a marriage work is the commitment by both parties to *make* it work regardless of the fact that you are both going to keep growing and changing over time. People who take 5 years figuring out if their partner is the perfect partner are guaranteed to be disappointed when after 10 years she's not quite as perfect as she was at 5.

What I am saying is that the commitment and the emotional investment need to go together. If you are still 'figuring it out' then you need to extend her the same courtesy--and not only her but everyone who knows her. If you haven't actually committed to a lifetime, why would you expect her to ignore other options that might be better for her?

You can try to blame the 'prick' all you want, but if someone else makes her happier than you do, you have no one but yourself to truly blame.

This analysis is so untrue to reality, I do not know where to begin with it.

I have spent too much time in the Family Court to believe that such legalism has any force in reality (I say this to short-circuit the inevitable criticism of my lack of experience).

When did we, as Orthodox Christians, become such great respectors of godless legal marriage, anyway? The ring goes on the finger and suddenly the seal of the godless state is sacrosanct? What does the ring even mean in a no-fault jurisdiction? It can all be undone with a little paperwork ...

I think your fundamental point is sound: that a wife or girlfriend is not property and one has no continually abiding ownership of her affection (which she is free to give to someone else at any time). Your case is damaged by your failure to recognise that the reality is somewhat more messy and less principled. The law is necessarily black-and-white, but reality is not.

Boyfriends and girlfriends break up all the time because one of them has found someone else. That is the reality. It is not, however, something to be gloried in and celebrated down at the pub on the Friday night, like a win in the NFL. I find discussing the subject with such a tone most disquieting.

I have no idea what you think you are responding to.

First, when did "Orthodox Christians, become such great respectors of godless legal marriage, anyway", I'd have to ask what evidence you have that it's 'become'. The command of marriage was given in Eden as one of the very first commands God gave the human race, and I have never seen anything in the Fathers other than that it has always applied to the entire human race. When Christ speaks of marriage and adultery in Matthew 5 and St. Paul speaks of it in 1 Cor 7 and Eph 5, they were speaking to audiences that did not know any marriage other than the civil ceremony you are so quick to dismiss (Marriage as an actual sacrament performed by the Church with associated Grace was not implemented by the Church until several centuries later).

Second, Punch and I have clearly and consistently distinguished between dating/courtship and engaged/married. To start mixing girlfriends and wives in your response is to either miss the point entirely or to continue the argument that there is no difference between the married state and the single--I know you think it's legalistic, but, again, your thinking cannot be supported from the Scriptures and Fathers who clearly do see the two as different things--if I convince a woman to leave her husband and marry me, we have both committed adultery, per Christ himself. If I convince a woman to leave her boyfriend and marry me--then all the Church says is that we're married--and that's a good thing.

Third, I do not consider my marriage a game. After my commitment to God (and inextricably tied to it), my marriage is the most important thing in my life. I am completely serious in discussing marriage--and therefore I was completely serious about my search for a wife, and in any advice I give others with respect to it. Yes, if you go after a woman strictly because you are competing with the current man in her life, that would be wrong. So would be practicing deceit or using violence or doing any thing else which is a sin in and of itself whether its associated with courtship or not.

(Finally, Family Court? Yes, that is experience. But it's experience with broken relationships, not with what goes into a successful courtship and marriage--i.e., I know several dozen ways to break my computer, but would be completely clueless about how to build one)

Thank you for your fourth paragraph ("thirdly", &c.), which is generous and makes the points I think have been missing thus far.

Unfortunately, your analysis misses that there was no marriage registry in Eden. The married state was simply the commitment of two individuals to exist in mutual union to the exclusion of others, as honoured by the community. It was so for, at least, many centuries. It is the breach of this arrangement which the Lord and the Fathers called "adultery".

I am simply stating that, in this current world, where people do not marry at seventeen or nineteen and relationships routinely run on for many years before rings are exchanged, the reality is that people in relationships increasingly rely on implicit promises of loyalty and fidelity and those around them become increasingly unwilling to disturb those things as the relationship becomes more and more "serious". It takes time for such commitment and societal recognition of it to crystallise. My proof of this is that no-one takes seriously a marriage formalised during a drunken night in Vegas, though they might with time and demonstrated loyalty and fidelity.

For my part, I would prefer not to be a contributor to the heartbreak of another person, even if not the ultimate cause. Do unto others and all that. I suppose there's no harm in admitting to being a sap and a sentimentalist, so please consider me so.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 24, 2012, 08:37:55 PM
(Finally, Family Court? Yes, that is experience. But it's experience with broken relationships, not with what goes into a successful courtship and marriage--i.e., I know several dozen ways to break my computer, but would be completely clueless about how to build one)

I prefer to think of it this way: I have enough experience of human misery that I know what to avoid.

God willing, I will one day have the same experience of success that you do. May it continue.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Delphine on April 24, 2012, 09:25:28 PM
However, if a man (other than her boyfriend) shows interest in her and she reciprocates....then was she truly in love with the original boyfriend?

Boys, when a girl is truly in love....nobody could tear her from  her man.

Very true. My husband and I are the rare pairing of high school sweethearts, so it did take several years before we got married. If someone else expressed interest in me, I didn't reciprocate. I felt unavailable, because I was (and am) happy. So my gut reaction is to agree with people like akimori and dzheremi, because that's how it worked for me.

However, I have had friends who, while in a relationship with someone else, met someone that they truly felt they would be happier with. It seems like these were ultimately good moves for them, but to get there was so messy--after breaking up with their old boyfriends, they wouldn't want to start dating again too soon for fear of the ex thinking that the new guy was the reason for the breakup (even if it was). The pressure and guilt they were heaping on themselves was completely unnecessary. They'd end up resorting to "dating in secret" for a while, as if they were cheating on the ex they already broke up with! It made no sense to me.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 09:27:36 PM

Unfortunately, your analysis misses that there was no marriage registry in Eden. The married state was simply the commitment of two individuals to exist in mutual union to the exclusion of others, as honoured by the community. It was so for, at least, many centuries. It is the breach of this arrangement which the Lord and the Fathers called "adultery".

I am simply stating that, in this current world, where people do not marry at seventeen or nineteen and relationships routinely run on for many years before rings are exchanged, the reality is that people in relationships increasingly rely on implicit promises of loyalty and fidelity and those around them become increasingly unwilling to disturb those things as the relationship becomes more and more "serious". It takes time for such commitment and societal recognition of it to crystallise. My proof of this is that no-one takes seriously a marriage formalised during a drunken night in Vegas, though they might with time and demonstrated loyalty and fidelity.

For my part, I would prefer not to be a contributor to the heartbreak of another person, even if not the ultimate cause. Do unto others and all that. I suppose there's no harm in admitting to being a sap and a sentimentalist, so please consider me so.

I think that you need to study Judeo /  Christian marriage a little more closely.  Marriage was NOT two people deciding that they were in love and slowing building into a marriage.  Marriage was (and continues to be in many places) an agreement between families, often with NO consent between the marrying parties.  There were marriage rituals BEFORE there was a Church, and these rituals determined when a marriage took place.  There was also no sex before a marriage.  Finding your new wife to be anything other than a virgin was a death sentence for her.  Marriage, as pertaining to Orthodox Christians and their predecessors, has always been a VERY formalized affair, even before the Church rituals that we have today.  There was even a formalized betrothal, which could last years, before a marriage was consummated.  As we see in the Gospels, the only way to end a betrothal was by a divorce.  

I suppose the problem here is that I do not understand the modern customs of this country.  It seems that all young men and women are these days are f***buddies and the relationship between them has nothing to do with Orthodoxy, or even Christianity for that matter.  In such cases, make up your own rules.  But if you come to an Orthodox forum to ask these questions of Orthodox people, expect Orthodox answers.  I dare you to find any support for your position in any of the religious writings of our Church.  As to what other cultures do, I do not care.  I am not on their forums.  I still hold the very old fashioned view that if you screw, you are married.  My priest holds the same view.  Anything after that with another woman is adultery.  So, if being in a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship means that you are living together and banging like bunnies, then I guess you are already married in my world.  However, if you are truly simply boyfriend and girlfriend, then what Witega and I have written holds true, in our religion.  I committed to marry my wife the first time we slept together.  And I did.  And I have remained true to her for all these years.  I guess if you advocate some other arrangement, I have nothing more to say since we are not discussing apples and apples.  I guess what bothers me is, like Witega, my marriage is the second most important thing in my life, right after my God.  When people ask my advice in the matter, I give the advice in this light.  It kind of upsets me when a person asks a serious question about the courtship, which should be leading to marriage, only to have so many experts that have never been married dispense with opinions that have little to nothing to do with the teachings of our Church.  It confuses me.  If I have a problem with my car, I would certainly never seek the advice of someone who has never successfully repaired an automobile.  But regarding a Sacrament of the Church, everyone is an expert.  But I guess what we have here is just the wisdom of today's world.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Delphine on April 24, 2012, 10:00:38 PM
Finding a wife, pragmatically:

A friend's grandfather proposed. The woman said no. He then proposed to her younger sister. This time he had better luck, and they were happily married for the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 24, 2012, 10:14:17 PM
I am simply stating that, in this current world, where people do not marry at seventeen or nineteen and relationships routinely run on for many years before rings are exchanged, the reality is that people in relationships increasingly rely on implicit promises of loyalty and fidelity and those around them become increasingly unwilling to disturb those things as the relationship becomes more and more "serious". It takes time for such commitment and societal recognition of it to crystallise. My proof of this is that no-one takes seriously a marriage formalised during a drunken night in Vegas, though they might with time and demonstrated loyalty and fidelity.

I think that one place you and I are more talking past each other than disagreeing is on this issue of commitment. Remember, the conversation started with JamesR's question about a *high school* relationship. As such, I've been mainly thinking and talking about people who are dating--whereas you seem to be focusing on people in long-term relationships who are living together or basically in a common-law marriage etc.

If a couple has been together for years (particularly living together) and everybody 'knows' there is something implicit between them, I probably wouldn't advise interfering (pointing to Liza and Delphine's witness that if the woman actually believes there's a commitment, you're just going to get shot down). But so long as those promises are 'implicit', I certainly don't think there's any sin in asking. Because as long as they are implicit, *someone* (most likely the man, but possibly the woman or both) is keeping their options open--because if they weren't, they would go ahead and make it 'explicit' (and by that I include not only formal marriages, because I have known couples who for various reasons (feminist rejection of marriage as a Patriarchal control mechanism, didn't have an RC annulment and were RC enough not to get remarried without one--but not RC enough to keep from living together as man and wife in its absence) did not have the formal marriage but actually considered themselves committed for life and publicly spoke that way).

Let me put it this way, in my circle of acquaintance is a couple who have been dating for 7 years. For at least the last 3, she has wanted to get married. He says he plans to marry her, he says when he pictures his future, it's always with them together--but right now's just not the right time because at first he was focussing on his career, and now he's focusing on his start-up business, and ... As far as I'm concerned, if any man comes along who's willing to put a higher priority on the girl than her current boyfriend and give her what she wants and deserves, he'd be doing the right thing by both of them. On the other hand, I'd never advise someone to actually pursue her, because I know several guys who have tried and gotten nowhere--because she is actually committed, even if he is not. But if he wants me (or anyone else) to respect his commitment--then he needs to actually make it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on April 24, 2012, 10:36:32 PM
Whoa! I am totally flabbergasted  here  and i am going to be harsh, but this is not meant as a personal attack on any of you but rather a vehemient opposition to your ideas  … are you guys saying that if the girl is not married yet in a committed relationship of discernment ie has a boyfriend, and her boyfriend’s friend happened to think he likes her and considers her a wife material, then its okay for him to try and get her affection too? Is this the moral of the story? Are you suggesting that as long as they are not married any form of relationship that might lead to the marriage ( since marriage does not occur in a vacuum, both involved had to invest some committed emotional and temporal commitment for it to actually materialize ) is meaningless and a fair game as a person without any kind of relationship?
Girl saying I have a boyfriend ….. is  … meaningless?
Guy saying I have a girlfriend is meaningless?

So,In order for it to be meaningful relationship for us, they 1 either have to have sex . 2, have to be married?

The third person looking in can tell himself or herself, that hey its okay they are not married even if I am coveting my brother’s girlfriend, or my sister’s boyfriend. The person might tell themselves that the boyfriend is undeserving of the girl they covet, they think of him as ugly, unrefined, unappreciative of her etc.. and by no means should he have the affection of such a girl the person thinks should reserve her affection only for guys like himself…… and that makes it okay to disrespect the relationship and hurt the brother that obviously has feelings for the girl who is his girlfriend? Is it okay to destroy someone unsuspecting of us, because they trusted us to respect a relationship when we know of its existence and by attempting to seduce and lure the other person for what at the moment we believe to be a “ noble affair” because after all our Machiavellian logic says “ the end justifies the means!” but have we considered that Christ is not Machiavellian and we have to answer for the pain and suffering we have inflicted. An emotional pain: that lasts longer than a pain of a flesh wound.

Yes it is true even the married ones are free to walk away if they decided to, however, if we see that the married person we think is an angel is unhappy, what would we do? Would we swoop in, and offer the fabulous alternative that is ‘ourselves”, or would we help the two to work out their problems?  Some have been known to say so  and so husband would have never cheated on her if she knew how to take care of him, and so and so’s wife would have never cheated on him if he had been there for her to meet all her needs and keep her happy. That was their excuse for being the third person KNOWINGLY ( this term being the key, whether we knew or not is the point of the entire argument) so Where would it stop… our moral and ethical elasticity?  Numero uno can come up with all sorts of pretexts to get what it wants, but to elevate such deceit and betrayal to some kind of Christian obligation or a work of ‘Love’ is going a bit too far, it might insult the intelligence of some people.

Relationships fall apart for number of reasons, but validating the morality of knowingly coveting and interfering with a brother’s girlfriend, or a sister’s boyfriend with the intent of diverting their affection towards the self is immoral by itself, no matter what the end result may be, the means used is immoral as our validation of it. The person we have hurt is Loved by God also, we are not the favorites, with halos around our heads, there is One who is watching our action and knows our intent and he will hold us accountable for such actions.

Something about this reminded me of Marlowe’s The Jew of Malta : “ Thou has committed / Fornication: but that was in another country,/ and besides , the wench is dead”

I am sorry for being so harsh, but exceptions while they may exist, some can never be advocated as valid and right.  Conscience should stand in the way of some of our impulses don’t you think?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on April 24, 2012, 10:40:00 PM
These posts are getting bigger, and that's a lot of words.
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091224185824/mysims/images/1/1f/Crosseyed.gif)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on April 24, 2012, 10:44:39 PM
 ;D I know, I could feel a rant comming when I started to type lol
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 11:01:57 PM
These posts are getting bigger, and that's a lot of words.
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091224185824/mysims/images/1/1f/Crosseyed.gif)

"The Prince" is one of my favorite books.  I keep a copy on my desk at work.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 24, 2012, 11:06:02 PM
I'm going to be honest, Hiwot. I've had a long day and I didn't read all of that. But from skimming it, it seems like I agree with your overall point. I would, however, make a distinction between a guy or gal with a girlfriend/boyfriend who is/would be moving on from their current relationship in order to be with someone else, and the kind of "relationship coup" someone else mentioned (I love that term; fits perfectly). I don't think there would anything wrong with the first, but how the latter can be approvingly posted about...it baffles me.

I do have a question for some people in this thread: It seems that the people who wouldn't want to disrupt others' preexisting relationships are being told "enjoy being alone". Is that a general comment reflecting the disrupters' experiences (i.e., is it that you didn't have success with women who were single?), or meant to establish a sort of principle, say, you're shooting yourself in the foot if you don't consider women already in relationships as available to you?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 11:09:14 PM
I guess what is most odd about the arguments against pursuing someone's "girlfriend" is that we forget that she is not an inflatable doll that he posesses, but an actual human being that can string two letters together into the word "NO".  I may buy some of these arguments if the woman had no choice in the matter as in nature where the strongest male simply gets what he wants.  It seems like the we are divided into several camps here; 1) the OP who simply asked if he should try, 2) the unmarried ones who think that he will burn in the eternal flames of hell for even thinking about it, 3) the married ones that say "go for it", and 4) the women who pretty much say "if we really love him, we will say NO to you anyway".  Interesting, and rather thought provoking.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 24, 2012, 11:22:27 PM
What if it's not about infantilizing her, but standing up for a principle consistent with how you view relationships in general?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 11:24:21 PM
I'm going to be honest, Hiwot. I've had a long day and I didn't read all of that. But from skimming it, it seems like I agree with your overall point. I would, however, make a distinction between a guy or gal with a girlfriend/boyfriend who is/would be moving on from their current relationship in order to be with someone else, and the kind of "relationship coup" someone else mentioned (I love that term; fits perfectly). I don't think there would anything wrong with the first, but how the latter can be approvingly posted about...it baffles me.

I do have a question for some people in this thread: It seems that the people who wouldn't want to disrupt others' preexisting relationships are being told "enjoy being alone". Is that a general comment reflecting the disrupters' experiences (i.e., is it that you didn't have success with women who were single?), or meant to establish a sort of principle, say, you're shooting yourself in the foot if you don't consider women already in relationships as available to you?

Good question.  In fact, VERY good question.  The age of the person in question would have to be taken into account, and I am probably thinking more in the context of my own sons, the youngest of whom is 22, and not so much in the context of the OP who is, I believe, 16.  I am also thinking in terms of absolutes.  As Paul says, all things are lawful for me, but not all are beneficial.  I believe that in either case, a coup under the terms that I discussed is "lawful".  In the case of the 16 year old, probably not the best advised since I think that 16 is too young to be married and the gains do not offset the possible hurt.  However, as one gets older, the pool of available "single" woman that are not lesbians or bats**t crazy becomes smaller and smaller.  If you are after a good woman that you want to be totally committed to and marry, you may have to at least consider "stealing" her from someone who is not as committed to a permanent relationship with her as you are.  As I said, in this case, as long as no formal (or strong informal) vows have been made by the "target" party, I see no problem legally or morally with the pursuit.  So, are you shooting yourself in the foot?  In my view, yes.  Anytime you have increased competition for a diminishing resource and you are not willing to use all the means open to you due to some made up taboo, you are going to be left behind by those that do not share your taboo.  That is why a vegetarian would not live long in the Arctic.  As long as you decide that you are simply not going to eat meat, you are going to die.  And the other people who are eating your share of whale and fish are not going to shed too many tears over it since it was your choice and no law that caused your demise.  I am sorry to use this imagery with women since they are NOT a commodity to be traded but real people, but I use it to be clear.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 24, 2012, 11:26:56 PM
What if it's not about infantilizing her, but standing up for a principle consistent with how you view relationships in general?

I have absolutely no problem whatever with you or anyone else personally standing up to a principle that they believe in.  I do have a problem with them whining about the effects of standing up to that principle and trying to change the ground rules for everyone else to even the field for themselves.  I think there is a difference, don't you?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on April 24, 2012, 11:27:13 PM
I'm going to be honest, Hiwot. I've had a long day and I didn't read all of that. But from skimming it, it seems like I agree with your overall point. I would, however, make a distinction between a guy or gal with a girlfriend/boyfriend who is/would be moving on from their current relationship in order to be with someone else, and the kind of "relationship coup" someone else mentioned (I love that term; fits perfectly). I don't think there would anything wrong with the first, but how the latter can be approvingly posted about...it baffles me.

I do have a question for some people in this thread: It seems that the people who wouldn't want to disrupt others' preexisting relationships are being told "enjoy being alone". Is that a general comment reflecting the disrupters' experiences (i.e., is it that you didn't have success with women who were single?), or meant to establish a sort of principle, say, you're shooting yourself in the foot if you don't consider women already in relationships as available to you?

yes dzheremi,I agree with you, akimori, and others who have said the same thing. I was addressing only the part where it was okay to knowingly disrupt someones relationship. I agree there is nothing wrong with ending a relationship , when it is not working for either of them for whatever reasons they deem valid, as long as it is done honorably with honesty. if they have met a different person who they think is right for them, let them be the ones to end it quickly whether there is a chance with the other person or not because obviously the one they are with is not the right person. we are speaking from the perspective of the two people in the relationship and what the discernment process entails. the other argument  about the snatchers is quite a different one as you already said it.  :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 24, 2012, 11:41:00 PM
However, as one gets older, the pool of available "single" woman that are not lesbians or bats**t crazy becomes smaller and smaller.

Oh...now you're speaking my language...

Quote
If you are after a good woman that you want to be totally committed to and marry, you may have to at least consider "stealing" her from someone who is not as committed to a permanent relationship with her as you are.
 

Forgive me for sounding cynical, but do you (the general "you") think you're able to accurately judge such a thing when you obviously have a vested interest in presenting yourself as "more committed", and diminishing whatever commitment there may (or may not) be with the current guy? After all, there are people out there who will spin any kind of tale to get the girl/guy.

Quote
As I said, in this case, as long as no formal (or strong informal) vows have been made by the "target" party, I see no problem legally or morally with the pursuit.
 

Again, how do you judge the strength of the vows?

Quote
So, are you shooting yourself in the foot?  In my view, yes.  Anytime you have increased competition for a diminishing resource and you are not willing to use all the means open to you due to some made up taboo, you are going to be left behind by those that do not share your taboo.

We're still talking about women, right? Not...grain or oil or something...?

Quote
That is why a vegetarian would not live long in the Arctic.  As long as you decide that you are simply not going to eat meat, you are going to die.  And the other people who are eating your share of whale and fish are not going to shed too many tears over it since it was your choice and no law that caused your demise.  I am sorry to use this imagery with women since they are NOT a commodity to be traded but real people, but I use it to be clear.

Ah, okay. You have an interesting view of the world. I should like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: FormerReformer on April 25, 2012, 12:25:05 AM

We're still talking about women, right? Not...grain or oil or something...?



No, no, no. Grain and oil are what you trade to parents for a woman if you don't have the customary livestock. See much earlier in this thread about appropriate livestock-to-woman exchange rates.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 25, 2012, 12:42:40 AM
Quote
As I said, in this case, as long as no formal (or strong informal) vows have been made by the "target" party, I see no problem legally or morally with the pursuit.
 

Again, how do you judge the strength of the vows?

How about by whether or not they exist? If there are formal vows (engaged/married), then you can know they exist and what they entail (or should entail) and move on. But if they are informal how are you going to know if they exist or how strong they are if you don't *ask*?

That's what mystifies me about so many of the objections put forth here. At least mine and Punch's position is clear about when a woman's unavailable--when she's made a formal commitment or when she says, "No thank you not interested" (whether her reasoning is her informal commitments or just a lack of interest in you). But at what point do the rest of you think it becomes immoral to ask a woman "would you like to go out sometime?" and "Okay, well if you change your mind give me a call?" When you see her out on a date with a man? (even if for all you know she never plans to see him again). when she goes out with the same guy for 6 months (even when she's just doing it because it's more fun than sitting home alone while she's waiting for something better to come along--and he knows it)? When she's been going out with the same guy for 2 years (but is fed up with his waffling and just looking for a trigger to justify her doing what she knows she's going to do anyway)? How do you know these things if you don't *ask* and let her know there's another option--if she's interested.

It's not about being better than her current boyfriend--it's about being a different option, if she wants one.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 25, 2012, 12:43:01 AM
But so long as those promises are 'implicit', I certainly don't think there's any sin in asking. Because as long as they are implicit, *someone* (most likely the man, but possibly the woman or both) is keeping their options open--because if they weren't, they would go ahead and make it 'explicit'

...in my circle of acquaintance is a couple who have been dating for 7 years. For at least the last 3, she has wanted to get married. He says he plans to marry her, he says when he pictures his future, it's always with them together--but right now's just not the right time because at first he was focussing on his career, and now he's focusing on his start-up business...

I know that this is probably very stupid of me to disagree with a married man old enough to be my father with years more knowledge and experience than me, but Mr Witega, I feel inclined to disagree with you on a couple of points here. Sometimes making their committment 'explicit' is much harder than some of these oldsters on here make it out to me because we come from different generations. Nowadays getting married for younger people is not as easy as the elders are making it out to be; you need money. You said yourself that a man should put his girlfriend/life/fiance higher than almost everything and take care of her as much as he can, and how is he supposed to do that if he does not have money yet? He needs to focus first on getting his job and cash flow coming in. And that is not as easy as it may have been for the oldsters. Nowadays college is almost essential for a decent job and finishing high-school is mandatory and college costs money as well, so it really is a hard process. If anything, it seems more immature to me to just marry a woman because you 'love her' relying solely on your emotional impulses and not reason, because even if you marry her, she is still going to struggle as the couple struggles economically. If he really loved her, then he would put off marriage for a while until he can get his money. I don't know if this is a wise decision or not, so your input would be appreciated, but I've sort of implicitely decided that I would not marry until I am economically stable.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 25, 2012, 02:55:17 AM
Witega, if Punch hadn't included "or strong informal", I wouldn't have asked that question. In context, however, I think it makes perfect sense to wonder, as your actions are going to based on how you judge such a situation, so it'd be good to try to be relatively confident that you know in fact that any of the scenarios you're thinking of actually apply (e.g., that she actually isn't going to be seeing that guy again, to use one of your examples).

Anyway...when is it acceptable...I would say that the "she's sick of her guy and looking for an out" standard is acceptable. That seems like something different than deciding for yourself that you're better than her current guy* and are going to try to break them up so that she will hopefully date you instead.

* - I'm not sure I really buy the idea that it's just being an alternative, as though there's no implicit (or potentially explicit) value-judgment being made here. Everyone is just an alternative, but without any reason to choose one over another if we're going to somehow remove the natural impulse to make ourselves look better in comparison to someone else. That's how it works, no? I have a feeling I may be misunderstanding you here...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on April 25, 2012, 08:19:29 AM
These posts are getting bigger, and that's a lot of words.
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091224185824/mysims/images/1/1f/Crosseyed.gif)

"The Prince" is one of my favorite books.  I keep a copy on my desk at work.

It's been a few years since I read it. I need to reread it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on April 25, 2012, 09:22:35 AM
So has mine.  I usually agree with Liza.  I always agree with Hiwot.

My faith that real women are still out there has been restored!  Very well said. 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 25, 2012, 10:53:06 AM
Witega, if Punch hadn't included "or strong informal", I wouldn't have asked that question.

To be clear, I would consider a "strong informal" to be her statement to me that she is committed to her boyfriend (or some other obvious form of communication).  There could be a hundred reasons as to why she is not wearing a ring, and none of them are my business at that point.  But as has been previously said, I cannot know of the informal commitment unless I ask and hear from her, so avoiding her because she has been seen in the general proximity of another male does not seem like a good way to go about things.  Continuing to pursue her after she has made it clear that she is committed to someone else would elicit the same feelings in me as the "don't do it" crowd have about the matter. 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 25, 2012, 10:58:46 AM
Ah, thanks for the clarification, Punch. I find this a very reasonable approach.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: LizaSymonenko on April 25, 2012, 11:32:00 AM
Witega, if Punch hadn't included "or strong informal", I wouldn't have asked that question.

To be clear, I would consider a "strong informal" to be her statement to me that she is committed to her boyfriend (or some other obvious form of communication).  There could be a hundred reasons as to why she is not wearing a ring, and none of them are my business at that point.  But as has been previously said, I cannot know of the informal commitment unless I ask and hear from her, so avoiding her because she has been seen in the general proximity of another male does not seem like a good way to go about things.  Continuing to pursue her after she has made it clear that she is committed to someone else would elicit the same feelings in me as the "don't do it" crowd have about the matter. 

What he said.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 25, 2012, 02:51:20 PM
But so long as those promises are 'implicit', I certainly don't think there's any sin in asking. Because as long as they are implicit, *someone* (most likely the man, but possibly the woman or both) is keeping their options open--because if they weren't, they would go ahead and make it 'explicit'

...in my circle of acquaintance is a couple who have been dating for 7 years. For at least the last 3, she has wanted to get married. He says he plans to marry her, he says when he pictures his future, it's always with them together--but right now's just not the right time because at first he was focussing on his career, and now he's focusing on his start-up business...

I know that this is probably very stupid of me to disagree with a married man old enough to be my father with years more knowledge and experience than me, but Mr Witega, I feel inclined to disagree with you on a couple of points here. Sometimes making their committment 'explicit' is much harder than some of these oldsters on here make it out to me because we come from different generations. Nowadays getting married for younger people is not as easy as the elders are making it out to be; you need money. You said yourself that a man should put his girlfriend/life/fiance higher than almost everything and take care of her as much as he can, and how is he supposed to do that if he does not have money yet? He needs to focus first on getting his job and cash flow coming in. And that is not as easy as it may have been for the oldsters. Nowadays college is almost essential for a decent job and finishing high-school is mandatory and college costs money as well, so it really is a hard process. If anything, it seems more immature to me to just marry a woman because you 'love her' relying solely on your emotional impulses and not reason, because even if you marry her, she is still going to struggle as the couple struggles economically. If he really loved her, then he would put off marriage for a while until he can get his money. I don't know if this is a wise decision or not, so your input would be appreciated, but I've sort of implicitely decided that I would not marry until I am economically stable.

James - God gave you a brain and you are using it to actually think about the things people are saying to you. That's not stupid at all. Uncritically accepting every piece of advice that comes your way is almost as bad as refusing to take any advice at all--and that goes triple because I'm just some random stranger on the internet.

Despite that, I'm going to give you some further advice now, which you can do whatever you want with:

First and foremost, avoid the trap of thinking your generation (which is the generation of my daughters and Punch's sons) is unique. Every generation since at least 1800 has thought that, and they've always been wrong. Technology makes some things go faster, specifics change here and there--but people are still people, and the world is still the world. It took money to support a family, and the more education and skill you had the easier it was to make that money, when I was in my 20s and starting my family. And the same was true when my parents were starting their family, and when my grandparents were trying to scrape their way of out the Great Depression. The fact that they did it is not evidence that it was 'easier'--its just evidence that when you accept something needs to be done, you do it and don't worry about the excuses.

Now, as to the main substance of your post: Honestly, the money is generally just an excuse. I'm not directing that at you. At 16, you still have years of figuring out who you are and what you want to try to do with your life before you should start worrying about who want to share the rest of that life with. And neither Punch nor I is saying 'COMMIT NOW'. What we've been saying is that if *don't* commit, then be prepared to live with the consequences. And at 16, (or 18 or 20) you should *want* to live with the consequences--life-long commitments are down the road for you. But in the case of my example couple--she's a professional with her own career that she has no plans to give up after marriage. He's an experienced and skilled computer programmer who I know for a fact has turned down well-paying jobs because he thinks he can eventually make more with his start-up (and he just likes being his own boss). Based on just her salary or the salary he could have if he took on of those job offers, they would be better off, more 'financially secure', than I was when my girls were little. He's making a choice, and its based on his priorities.

Which brings me to some comments about money, financial stability, and priorities.
First off, you are never *ever* going to have enough money to provide for your loved ones in the manner they deserve. This is kind of integral to the 'loved' part. For example, someday hopefully you will meet a fine upstanding Orthodox woman, the two of you will fall in love and get married. You will want to buy her a ring. And if all you can afford is a cubic zirconium, you will wish you could afford a real diamond. And if you can afford a half-carat, you will wish you could afford a full carat. And if you can afford a full carat, you will wish you could afford 5 carats. And if you can afford 5 carats, you'll wish you can afford to pay an artistic genius to create a unique work of jewelry just for her. And you will wish this even though as a fine upstanding Orthodox woman, she tells you she doesn't care about jewelry. You will wish it even if she tells you she wants you to halve your ring budget and give the other half to charity, and you will wish it even though, if she really is the right woman, she really will be happy with whatever you can afford. You will want this because if you love her, you will know that she deserves all the best things in life--and you are going to have to live with the fact that not even Bill Gates can provide *all* the best things in life. Second example: A five-year old can entertain himself for days with a cardboard box and a stick. But you will spend considerably more than the cost of a box and a stick every birthday and every Christmas. In fact, at some point, you'll talk yourself into going over budget to buy one particularly neat toy--only to have your child playing with it for 10 minutes, then wander off to spend the next couple of hours climbing in and out of the box it came in. Indeed with kids, the more money you have, the more careful you have to be about *not* spending everything you can on them so as to not ruin their developing sense of value and work ethic.

Second, 'financial stability' is an illusion (Luke 12:15-23). I knew a man who waited until his late 30s to get married because he was concentrating on building his business. And he was very successful at that. When I met him in his late 50s, he was a multi-millionaire with a mansion in the most expensive part of Dallas. Then, just as he was putting 3 kids through college, the commercial real estate bubble in Texas burst and he went from being worth tens of millions to owing millions. His kids went from Christmas vacations in Vale or Europe to working two jobs just to finish their degrees and his first grandchild was born on welfare. I'm not saying don't be sensible with your money or don't make plans--but if 'financial stability' is your priority, then it is one you will never set aside. Because when you get to a certain level of stability, you need more money to guarantee you can stay at that level--I'm doing fine now, and I have decent savings--but if I had lost my job in the recent downturn, my family could not have stayed at our current level for long on those saving. So to guarantee we could stay at our current level, I would need to make much more money than I have now--but once you're making much more money, the level has changed and you start looking at what you have to make on top of that to guarantee that new level. The more you feed your *need* for money (whether you couch the need as 'financial stability' or 'independence' or raw greed) the more it grows (like any other passion). So be responsibile with your money--but be aware that nothing in this world is ever certain and never prioritize it over more important things--

because (and this is a piece of advice I specifically give my daughters when considering guys): 'Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also'. People get into habits of mind. And once they do, those habits do not change just because you know they should. If you spend years prioritizing your job and financial stability over the woman in your life, then there is no magic about a wedding ring (to borrow from akimoro) that is going to change that when you do finally get married. That millionaire? He always struck me as one of the loneliest people I've ever met. He provided his family a much better life, in financial terms, than I've ever done for my family. But he barely knew them.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 25, 2012, 02:53:05 PM

PUnch basically answered this much more concisely while I was typing my response up, but anyway....
Witega, if Punch hadn't included "or strong informal", I wouldn't have asked that question. In context, however, I think it makes perfect sense to wonder, as your actions are going to based on how you judge such a situation, so it'd be good to try to be relatively confident that you know in fact that any of the scenarios you're thinking of actually apply (e.g., that she actually isn't going to be seeing that guy again, to use one of your examples).

Anyway...when is it acceptable...I would say that the "she's sick of her guy and looking for an out" standard is acceptable. That seems like something different than deciding for yourself that you're better than her current guy* and are going to try to break them up so that she will hopefully date you instead.

I used your earlier post to pose a question to everyone having heart-palpitations at the very idea that people who have not made a permanent commitment should not be treated the same as those who have, but your response here brings me back to the same question--if you don't ask, how do you know? I mean honestly, I am not sure how some of you ever ask a woman out at all while sticking to these artificial rules. If you find something attractive about a woman, then it's almost guaranteed that other men have noticed the same attractive qualities and asked her out before you. And since she (most likely) is not gifted with precognitive knowledge that you are going to come along later, she's had no reason not to say 'yes' to the perfectly valid invitations, even if she doesn't know if that relationship is going to lead to permanence (or even in some cases where she knows its not). So the number of women who are seeing *someone* on a regular or semi-regular basis, but who consider themselves still available is far higher than the number of women who are completely unattached. And yet from the violence of some of the responses, people seem to think it's not appropriate to ask a woman out unless you are absolutely sure there is no other man in the picture. And the number of dateable women for whome there is *no* other man in the picture is ridiculously small. If the woman does have a commitment to the man--she'll tell you and you can move on. But if she doesn't, how do you guys ever find that out?

"try to break them up"

I have to ask what you even mean by this? Remembering that I already explictly stated what should have been assumed on this site--that behavior which is immoral in a general context is also immoral (and therefore to be avoided) in a courting context. So no gossiping about the other guy. No lying about him or about yourself (i.e., telling the woman you're ready to commit *to her* when you are really just looking for the opportunity to find out if you might want to do so). Definitely no getting her drunk in an attempt to seduce her or hacking her computer or... do I really need to continue? So what actual action is that you are thinking is immoral? Is telling a woman--who you don't know what kind of relationship she is currently in--"I find you attractive and would like to get to know you better" a sin? Is asking "You don't seem happy, what's the matter" a sin?


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* - I'm not sure I really buy the idea that it's just being an alternative, as though there's no implicit (or potentially explicit) value-judgment being made here. Everyone is just an alternative, but without any reason to choose one over another if we're going to somehow remove the natural impulse to make ourselves look better in comparison to someone else. That's how it works, no? I have a feeling I may be misunderstanding you here...

I don't understand how this issue is any diffent whether the woman is 'attached' or 'unattached'. If you ask a woman out, presumably two things are true--a) you think you will enjoy being with her (whether it's just for an evening of a pleasant conversation or if you are thinking more long term), and b) you think she will enjoy being with you (again whether  you are thinking about this one date or about a whole life or something in between. If b) is not true, then you need to not be wasting any woman's time and instead working on your own issues. If b) is true, then that doesn't mean you think you are definitely the better option for her out of all possible options. Indeed, if you only pursue women that you are sure you are the best option for then you are either an unregenerate narcisissist or you are setting your sights ridiculously (I should say terrifyingly) low. The point is, it's not your judgement to make--it's hers. And just as with the issue of whether she's actually available or not, you won't know her judgment--unless you ask.

(And that's particularly true if your in the camp that's arguing that simply by dating a woman, you have made it immoral for any other man to approach her. By that logic, the very act of asking a woman out on the 3rd date, or whatever the magic number is, is closing her off from considering any other options--so morally you can only do it if you know you are the best option).


Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on April 25, 2012, 03:35:20 PM
I used your earlier post to pose a question to everyone having heart-palpitations at the very idea that people who have not made a permanent commitment should not be treated the same as those who have, but your response here brings me back to the same question--if you don't ask, how do you know? I mean honestly, I am not sure how some of you ever ask a woman out at all while sticking to these artificial rules.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I posted, as I wasn't about trying to stick to "artificial rules", but instead to see how Punch would judge such a thing, for purely pragmatic reasons.

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If you find something attractive about a woman, then it's almost guaranteed that other men have noticed the same attractive qualities and asked her out before you. And since she (most likely) is not gifted with precognitive knowledge that you are going to come along later, she's had no reason not to say 'yes' to the perfectly valid invitations, even if she doesn't know if that relationship is going to lead to permanence (or even in some cases where she knows its not). So the number of women who are seeing *someone* on a regular or semi-regular basis, but who consider themselves still available is far higher than the number of women who are completely unattached.


Granted.

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And yet from the violence of some of the responses, people seem to think it's not appropriate to ask a woman out unless you are absolutely sure there is no other man in the picture. And the number of dateable women for whome there is *no* other man in the picture is ridiculously small. If the woman does have a commitment to the man--she'll tell you and you can move on. But if she doesn't, how do you guys ever find that out?

Well, for myself, as I clarified some posts ago, I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the situation that James talked about was one of those clear situations wherein the girl turned James down specifically because she's got a boyfriend and isn't interested in him. So my reading of the original post didn't really lend itself to any of the grey area that I know is there. That said, I don't disagree with any of this.

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"try to break them up"

I have to ask what you even mean by this?

It is self-explanatory, I'd think. You've really never seen this happen?

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Remembering that I already explictly stated what should have been assumed on this site...

I must've missed this passage/post.

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Is telling a woman--who you don't know what kind of relationship she is currently in--"I find you attractive and would like to get to know you better" a sin? Is asking "You don't seem happy, what's the matter" a sin?

Nope.

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* - I'm not sure I really buy the idea that it's just being an alternative, as though there's no implicit (or potentially explicit) value-judgment being made here. Everyone is just an alternative, but without any reason to choose one over another if we're going to somehow remove the natural impulse to make ourselves look better in comparison to someone else. That's how it works, no? I have a feeling I may be misunderstanding you here...

Quote
I don't understand how this issue is any diffent whether the woman is 'attached' or 'unattached'. If you ask a woman out, presumably two things are true--a) you think you will enjoy being with her (whether it's just for an evening of a pleasant conversation or if you are thinking more long term), and b) you think she will enjoy being with you (again whether  you are thinking about this one date or about a whole life or something in between. If b) is not true, then you need to not be wasting any woman's time and instead working on your own issues. If b) is true, then that doesn't mean you think you are definitely the better option for her out of all possible options.


No, but you must [think you] have something to offer that will make you a good choice compared to her current guy, or else why would you bother?

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Indeed, if you only pursue women that you are sure you are the best option for then you are either an unregenerate narcisissist or you are setting your sights ridiculously (I should say terrifyingly) low.


Huh? I think we're misunderstanding each other. As I read your original post, it's not about being better than the current guy, but just being an alternative. My only point is that it must be about being a comparably better alternative in some way, as simply existing is generally not enough to attract the ladies (Orthonorm excepted?). That was my only point. Nothing about being better than all possible options, and basically the opposite of low self-esteem.

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The point is, it's not your judgement to make--it's hers. And just as with the issue of whether she's actually available or not, you won't know her judgment--unless you ask.

Indeed.

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(And that's particularly true if your in the camp that's arguing that simply by dating a woman, you have made it immoral for any other man to approach her. By that logic, the very act of asking a woman out on the 3rd date, or whatever the magic number is, is closing her off from considering any other options--so morally you can only do it if you know you are the best option).

Yeah, that's also not what I'm saying. Remember, as per above, my original stance in this thread was within the assumed context that James had already received a clear no from the girl because she was committed to her boyfriend. In subsequent posts, when I realized that I was reading something into it that might not be there, I modified my stance.

I don't think there are nearly as many absolutes in dating as it probably seems in this "camp", but as I've responded to Punch, I do like having some general standards by which I try to conduct myself with regard to relationships. One of those includes not messing with established (or what Punch has called "strong informal") relationships. That's all. I don't think we're actually disagreeing on that point, only discussing the finer points of where the line is. Hence all the questions to make sure we're all on the same page.



[/quote]
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 25, 2012, 05:27:59 PM

Thank you, Witega. So let me share with you what I think I have learned or insights I have gained from your advice. I would say that the most important thing I learned from you is that where my treasure is, that is where my heart is. I guess I do put too much of an emphasis on wealth in my life sometimes; sometimes even thinking that wealth is the most important thing to provide my family if I ever have one in the future. I guess I just worry about them having to live a crappy life for lack of a better term. I mean, my family never had very much, so I'd like to at least give them something more than we had. I also know that I would not want my daughter to marry someone who cannot at least give them enough money to survive, so I just find it kind of selfish and immature to marry if I do not even at least have a job. However, as you also stated, there is no such thing as pure financial stability and having as much as I want for them; there is always the risk that it could go away as fast as it came, and I will always desire to give them more than what I have. But this is not always possible and sometimes I just have to work with what I have, and a good woman would understand that and love me anyway. And if I focus too much on wealth, then I could possibly neglect giving them emotional or personal support as a father/husband. Also, as you stated, although each generation may have been different and unique in its own way, they still faced the same general problems, and people dealt with them. And it is no different for my generation and your daughters' generation; we have our own load of problems but we deal with them and make the best.

I guess the final thing is more about the original topic. You're basically advising me that dating is a competition, and although I should not try to disrupt a relationship or marriage if a woman tells me she is not available, there is still nothing wrong with extending an offer? And that 'stealing' a woman away from someone is sort of an oxymoron considering that she had an option and chose me rather than me literally going in, forcing her to follow me and stole her. And probably most importantly, when it comes to weighing down and thinking about the benefits and disadvantages of dating a certain person or engaging in a particular competition, I should think with my head rationally instead of letting Mr. Happy influence my decisions? I think that I have done that with my current situation. I have decided that it is not worth it to go after this girl. The reason is because we're in high-school and chances are that the relationship won't last and lead to a marriage in the future but end with a break-up, and that break-up would probably affect the relationship with my best friend, who is her brother. I do not think that losing my best friend over a relationship that will not probably last is worth it. So I think that I am going to let her go for now, unless somehow in the distant future marriage is actually a possibility and we're still in contact, then I'll reconsider it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on April 25, 2012, 05:51:45 PM

Thank you, Witega. So let me share with you what I think I have learned or insights I have gained from your advice. I would say that the most important thing I learned from you is that where my treasure is, that is where my heart is. I guess I do put too much of an emphasis on wealth in my life sometimes; sometimes even thinking that wealth is the most important thing to provide my family if I ever have one in the future. I guess I just worry about them having to live a crappy life for lack of a better term. I mean, my family never had very much, so I'd like to at least give them something more than we had. I also know that I would not want my daughter to marry someone who cannot at least give them enough money to survive, so I just find it kind of selfish and immature to marry if I do not even at least have a job. However, as you also stated, there is no such thing as pure financial stability and having as much as I want for them; there is always the risk that it could go away as fast as it came, and I will always desire to give them more than what I have. But this is not always possible and sometimes I just have to work with what I have, and a good woman would understand that and love me anyway. And if I focus too much on wealth, then I could possibly neglect giving them emotional or personal support as a father/husband. Also, as you stated, although each generation may have been different and unique in its own way, they still faced the same general problems, and people dealt with them. And it is no different for my generation and your daughters' generation; we have our own load of problems but we deal with them and make the best.

I guess the final thing is more about the original topic. You're basically advising me that dating is a competition, and although I should not try to disrupt a relationship or marriage if a woman tells me she is not available, there is still nothing wrong with extending an offer? And that 'stealing' a woman away from someone is sort of an oxymoron considering that she had an option and chose me rather than me literally going in, forcing her to follow me and stole her. And probably most importantly, when it comes to weighing down and thinking about the benefits and disadvantages of dating a certain person or engaging in a particular competition, I should think with my head rationally instead of letting Mr. Happy influence my decisions? I think that I have done that with my current situation. I have decided that it is not worth it to go after this girl. The reason is because we're in high-school and chances are that the relationship won't last and lead to a marriage in the future but end with a break-up, and that break-up would probably affect the relationship with my best friend, who is her brother. I do not think that losing my best friend over a relationship that will not probably last is worth it. So I think that I am going to let her go for now, unless somehow in the distant future marriage is actually a possibility and we're still in contact, then I'll reconsider it.

 ;D
About the only thing I add to that summary is that if you can keep Mr. Happy from influencing your decisions you're a better man than I and well on your way to sainthood. The more realistic goal for most of us is don't let him *control* your decisions.

Oh, and I believe you mentioned on another thread that you are in the Bay Area but have yet to visit St. John's relics. Find a way to get over there. Their presence in your city is a massive blessing you are not availing yourself of.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 25, 2012, 07:25:11 PM
Oh, and I believe you mentioned on another thread that you are in the Bay Area but have yet to visit St. John's relics. Find a way to get over there. Their presence in your city is a massive blessing you are not availing yourself of.

I'll try to find a way over there. I might have to wait until I get my license in a few months though. I doubt my parents will want to take me or be interested.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 25, 2012, 07:58:18 PM
I am simply stating that, in this current world, where people do not marry at seventeen or nineteen and relationships routinely run on for many years before rings are exchanged, the reality is that people in relationships increasingly rely on implicit promises of loyalty and fidelity and those around them become increasingly unwilling to disturb those things as the relationship becomes more and more "serious". It takes time for such commitment and societal recognition of it to crystallise. My proof of this is that no-one takes seriously a marriage formalised during a drunken night in Vegas, though they might with time and demonstrated loyalty and fidelity.

I think that one place you and I are more talking past each other than disagreeing is on this issue of commitment. Remember, the conversation started with JamesR's question about a *high school* relationship. As such, I've been mainly thinking and talking about people who are dating--whereas you seem to be focusing on people in long-term relationships who are living together or basically in a common-law marriage etc.

If a couple has been together for years (particularly living together) and everybody 'knows' there is something implicit between them, I probably wouldn't advise interfering (pointing to Liza and Delphine's witness that if the woman actually believes there's a commitment, you're just going to get shot down). But so long as those promises are 'implicit', I certainly don't think there's any sin in asking. Because as long as they are implicit, *someone* (most likely the man, but possibly the woman or both) is keeping their options open--because if they weren't, they would go ahead and make it 'explicit' (and by that I include not only formal marriages, because I have known couples who for various reasons (feminist rejection of marriage as a Patriarchal control mechanism, didn't have an RC annulment and were RC enough not to get remarried without one--but not RC enough to keep from living together as man and wife in its absence) did not have the formal marriage but actually considered themselves committed for life and publicly spoke that way).

Let me put it this way, in my circle of acquaintance is a couple who have been dating for 7 years. For at least the last 3, she has wanted to get married. He says he plans to marry her, he says when he pictures his future, it's always with them together--but right now's just not the right time because at first he was focussing on his career, and now he's focusing on his start-up business, and ... As far as I'm concerned, if any man comes along who's willing to put a higher priority on the girl than her current boyfriend and give her what she wants and deserves, he'd be doing the right thing by both of them. On the other hand, I'd never advise someone to actually pursue her, because I know several guys who have tried and gotten nowhere--because she is actually committed, even if he is not. But if he wants me (or anyone else) to respect his commitment--then he needs to actually make it.

I think this is all fair.

I would only comment that, often, the events leading to the break-up are not as clean as a polite and explicit request for a date/relationship.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 25, 2012, 08:13:12 PM

Unfortunately, your analysis misses that there was no marriage registry in Eden. The married state was simply the commitment of two individuals to exist in mutual union to the exclusion of others, as honoured by the community. It was so for, at least, many centuries. It is the breach of this arrangement which the Lord and the Fathers called "adultery".

I am simply stating that, in this current world, where people do not marry at seventeen or nineteen and relationships routinely run on for many years before rings are exchanged, the reality is that people in relationships increasingly rely on implicit promises of loyalty and fidelity and those around them become increasingly unwilling to disturb those things as the relationship becomes more and more "serious". It takes time for such commitment and societal recognition of it to crystallise. My proof of this is that no-one takes seriously a marriage formalised during a drunken night in Vegas, though they might with time and demonstrated loyalty and fidelity.

For my part, I would prefer not to be a contributor to the heartbreak of another person, even if not the ultimate cause. Do unto others and all that. I suppose there's no harm in admitting to being a sap and a sentimentalist, so please consider me so.

I think that you need to study Judeo /  Christian marriage a little more closely.  Marriage was NOT two people deciding that they were in love and slowing building into a marriage.  Marriage was (and continues to be in many places) an agreement between families, often with NO consent between the marrying parties.  There were marriage rituals BEFORE there was a Church, and these rituals determined when a marriage took place.  There was also no sex before a marriage.  Finding your new wife to be anything other than a virgin was a death sentence for her.  Marriage, as pertaining to Orthodox Christians and their predecessors, has always been a VERY formalized affair, even before the Church rituals that we have today.  There was even a formalized betrothal, which could last years, before a marriage was consummated.  As we see in the Gospels, the only way to end a betrothal was by a divorce.

This analysis is true of most of relevant history, but does not account for the "marriage" in Eden ("for this reason a man will leave his mother and father and cleave unto another", &c.). I am not suggesting that the ancients went on cute little dates with regularity over the span of a few years before deciding to marry, but a couple of families agreeing their son and daughter should shack up together and have babies (and the rest of the community respecting that decision) is as "formal" as it got in many places, for many centuries.

I suppose the problem here is that I do not understand the modern customs of this country.  It seems that all young men and women are these days are f***buddies and the relationship between them has nothing to do with Orthodoxy, or even Christianity for that matter.  In such cases, make up your own rules.  But if you come to an Orthodox forum to ask these questions of Orthodox people, expect Orthodox answers.  I dare you to find any support for your position in any of the religious writings of our Church.  As to what other cultures do, I do not care.  I am not on their forums.  I still hold the very old fashioned view that if you screw, you are married.  My priest holds the same view.  Anything after that with another woman is adultery.  So, if being in a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship means that you are living together and banging like bunnies, then I guess you are already married in my world.  However, if you are truly simply boyfriend and girlfriend, then what Witega and I have written holds true, in our religion.  I committed to marry my wife the first time we slept together.  And I did.  And I have remained true to her for all these years.  I guess if you advocate some other arrangement, I have nothing more to say since we are not discussing apples and apples.

I think this is fair, and suggests we have more commonality than I have made out. I have not meant to suggest that teenage girls who have been on four or five dates with a boy are his property, though I can see that I have made a few overstatements which would tend in that direction.

The fact that you say a sexual relationship is (basically) a marriage is proof of my contention of that marriage is not something which exists by virtue of having been formalised in a registry somewhere. The only thing I have argued is that formalising a marriage in a registry does not instantaneously convey some sort of sacrosanctity. It is the agreement of the community to honour a relationship as exclusive that matters.

I guess what bothers me is, like Witega, my marriage is the second most important thing in my life, right after my God.  When people ask my advice in the matter, I give the advice in this light.  It kind of upsets me when a person asks a serious question about the courtship, which should be leading to marriage, only to have so many experts that have never been married dispense with opinions that have little to nothing to do with the teachings of our Church.  It confuses me.  If I have a problem with my car, I would certainly never seek the advice of someone who has never successfully repaired an automobile.  But regarding a Sacrament of the Church, everyone is an expert.  But I guess what we have here is just the wisdom of today's world.

I have sympathy with this, but you are kinda suggesting that people who have not been married have no idea about the sacraments of the Church or the teaching of the Fathers, while you have automatically acquired such knowledge simply by being married. Surely the truth is somewhat more nuanced.

Anyway, I am constantly being told by hobby lawyers what the law is, so I suppose we should all just get used to it.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 25, 2012, 08:21:15 PM
Witega, if Punch hadn't included "or strong informal", I wouldn't have asked that question.

To be clear, I would consider a "strong informal" to be her statement to me that she is committed to her boyfriend (or some other obvious form of communication).  There could be a hundred reasons as to why she is not wearing a ring, and none of them are my business at that point.  But as has been previously said, I cannot know of the informal commitment unless I ask and hear from her, so avoiding her because she has been seen in the general proximity of another male does not seem like a good way to go about things.  Continuing to pursue her after she has made it clear that she is committed to someone else would elicit the same feelings in me as the "don't do it" crowd have about the matter.

I suppose there's no harm in asking.

My visceral reaction to the idea of "stealing" someone is based on the feeling that such a stealing is often not accomplished by a simple, polite request for a date.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on April 25, 2012, 08:22:35 PM
Personally, I wish that we still had arranged marriage. That would make things a lot easier and simple. Maybe our whole new concept of 'loving' and getting to 'know someone' before we marry them is all wrong. I mean, it only leads to a ton of breakups and divorce. I even read once somewhere that arranged marriages have lower divorce rates. Maybe the old way of things was actually superior; you marry the person whom your family arranged for you to marry and you two learn to love each other and get to know each other as you progress in your marriage. I'd just hope that my parents had good taste for me and picked someone from an Orthodox family; although I doubt they would and would instead probably leave me stuck with some western Protestant.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 25, 2012, 08:32:11 PM

I have sympathy with this, but you are kinda suggesting that people who have not been married have no idea about the sacraments of the Church or the teaching of the Fathers, while you have automatically acquired such knowledge simply by being married. Surely the truth is somewhat more nuanced.

Anyway, I am constantly being told by hobby lawyers what the law is, so I suppose we should all just get used to it.

The truth is very much more nuanced.  Sorry if my statements came out that way, since I was not even thinking of the Fathers when I wrote that.  I would say that people that have been married and gone through the trials and tribulations, as well as the joys of marriage have a better idea of what they are talking about regarding marriage.  As to the rules and regulations, simply being married does nothing about that.  I have been studying those longer than I have been married, so I am not ignorant of them.  My Godfather, a monk, once told me the following when I asked him some questions about living a Holy life.  He said "You are a married man, so seek your guidance from a married priest.  I fight a different battle than you do and should not be advising you on matters that I do not know.  Since the priest has a wife and a family, he will be better able to advise you."  That is what I had more in mind when I wrote the above.  A single guy can quote the Fathers as well, if not better, than I can.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on April 25, 2012, 08:34:42 PM

I have sympathy with this, but you are kinda suggesting that people who have not been married have no idea about the sacraments of the Church or the teaching of the Fathers, while you have automatically acquired such knowledge simply by being married. Surely the truth is somewhat more nuanced.

Anyway, I am constantly being told by hobby lawyers what the law is, so I suppose we should all just get used to it.

The truth is very much more nuanced.  Sorry if my statements came out that way, since I was not even thinking of the Fathers when I wrote that.  I would say that people that have been married and gone through the trials and tribulations, as well as the joys of marriage have a better idea of what they are talking about regarding marriage.  As to the rules and regulations, simply being married does nothing about that.  I have been studying those longer than I have been married, so I am not ignorant of them.  My Godfather, a monk, once told me the following when I asked him some questions about living a Holy life.  He said "You are a married man, so seek your guidance from a married priest.  I fight a different battle than you do and should not be advising you on matters that I do not know.  Since the priest has a wife and a family, he will be better able to advise you."  That is what I had more in mind when I wrote the above.  A single guy can quote the Fathers as well, if not better, than I can.

Thanks, Punch.

You are generous and, I think, right on this point.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on April 25, 2012, 08:38:18 PM
Personally, I wish that we still had arranged marriage. That would make things a lot easier and simple. Maybe our whole new concept of 'loving' and getting to 'know someone' before we marry them is all wrong. I mean, it only leads to a ton of breakups and divorce. I even read once somewhere that arranged marriages have lower divorce rates. Maybe the old way of things was actually superior; you marry the person whom your family arranged for you to marry and you two learn to love each other and get to know each other as you progress in your marriage. I'd just hope that my parents had good taste for me and picked someone from an Orthodox family; although I doubt they would and would instead probably leave me stuck with some western Protestant.

I knew an Orthodox Arab woman like that.  The first time she saw her husband was the day she married him.  We was working a farm in Western Nebraska and wrote home to Syria to have them send him a wife.  They did.  My wife was in awe of this and asked if she loved him.  She said that in those days, you learned to love your spouse.  Her husband passed away long before we met her, and she never even entertained the thought of marrying anyone else other than the man that she was sent to marry.  It can work.  But there are stories where it does not.  To know her was to know a Saint.  
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on April 26, 2012, 05:06:04 AM
this has been quite an interesting topic, and  the subsequent clarifications of points given have been very helpful. thanks all.

with Love,
 :angel:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on May 05, 2012, 05:13:49 AM
Alright fellas I have great news. I just found out through a lyric website that Steve-O, yeah the same guy who was in MTV's Jackbutt, was dating Elisabetta Canalis and he dumped her.

Yes let that sink in for a moment.

This guy:
(http://i.imgur.com/pQ0W2.jpg?1)

Was dating this girl:
(http://i.imgur.com/IrOSW.jpg?1)

The great mystery of 2012 has revealed itself.

So take hope, we all too can have a supermodel of our own sans our looks and money.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: britgirl on May 05, 2012, 01:14:49 PM
Personally, I wish that we still had arranged marriage. That would make things a lot easier and simple. Maybe our whole new concept of 'loving' and getting to 'know someone' before we marry them is all wrong. I mean, it only leads to a ton of breakups and divorce. I even read once somewhere that arranged marriages have lower divorce rates. Maybe the old way of things was actually superior; you marry the person whom your family arranged for you to marry and you two learn to love each other and get to know each other as you progress in your marriage. I'd just hope that my parents had good taste for me and picked someone from an Orthodox family; although I doubt they would and would instead probably leave me stuck with some western Protestant.
As someone who has literally thirty+ friends due to have/already have arranged marriages, I can tell you that it is not THAT clean. I have a close friend whose parents are choosing her husband in order to further her father's political career in another country (they will choose someone in the same political party and have told my friend that she will not have a say. She has accepted this.) Yet another is in love with a guy and has been for years, but her parents do not think his family is "worthy" to be tied with theirs. All of these girls and guys are American-born. Marriages like these are often (but not always) used as a tie between families for some kind of gain, be it political, social (climbing the social ladder) or even financial (think family-owned businesses).

I'm only twenty and this is the reality of my South Asian and Arab friends across several different religions. The stress I see my friends under and the worry that their parents will choose "well" for them (in regards to social, financial and educational standards) but not someone they'll actually love. It's a huge burden for these people. It's not easier for an arranged marriage--it's an entirely different idea with its own set of issues, just like a "love" marriage has.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on May 05, 2012, 02:13:40 PM
Personally, I wish that we still had arranged marriage. That would make things a lot easier and simple. Maybe our whole new concept of 'loving' and getting to 'know someone' before we marry them is all wrong. I mean, it only leads to a ton of breakups and divorce. I even read once somewhere that arranged marriages have lower divorce rates. Maybe the old way of things was actually superior; you marry the person whom your family arranged for you to marry and you two learn to love each other and get to know each other as you progress in your marriage. I'd just hope that my parents had good taste for me and picked someone from an Orthodox family; although I doubt they would and would instead probably leave me stuck with some western Protestant.
As someone who has literally thirty+ friends due to have/already have arranged marriages, I can tell you that it is not THAT clean. I have a close friend whose parents are choosing her husband in order to further her father's political career in another country (they will choose someone in the same political party and have told my friend that she will not have a say. She has accepted this.) Yet another is in love with a guy and has been for years, but her parents do not think his family is "worthy" to be tied with theirs. All of these girls and guys are American-born. Marriages like these are often (but not always) used as a tie between families for some kind of gain, be it political, social (climbing the social ladder) or even financial (think family-owned businesses).

I'm only twenty and this is the reality of my South Asian and Arab friends across several different religions. The stress I see my friends under and the worry that their parents will choose "well" for them (in regards to social, financial and educational standards) but not someone they'll actually love. It's a huge burden for these people. It's not easier for an arranged marriage--it's an entirely different idea with its own set of issues, just like a "love" marriage has.

Without actually opining about which is better, you didn't really answer his question. The examples you used were of people who 'will be' married, not those who are already established in the marriage.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on May 06, 2012, 02:48:16 AM
These posts are getting bigger, and that's a lot of words.
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091224185824/mysims/images/1/1f/Crosseyed.gif)

"The Prince" is one of my favorite books.  I keep a copy on my desk at work.

It's been a few years since I read it. I need to reread it.

I just wrote a paper on it and Hobbes' "Leviathan".
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on May 06, 2012, 04:13:46 AM
How do you get a woman's attention when you feel invisible like she does not even know that you exist?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on May 06, 2012, 04:20:48 AM
Become fatter and fatter until eventually she'll have to notice you because you take up so much physical space in her field of vision.

It probably won't get you dates, but it will get you noticed!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NicholasMyra on May 06, 2012, 04:26:18 AM
How do you get a woman's attention when you feel invisible like she does not even know that you exist?
Why do you want to get her attention if you don't know her? Or, how did you get to know her if she doesn't know you exist?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on May 06, 2012, 05:22:57 AM
How do you get a woman's attention when you feel invisible like she does not even know that you exist?
Why do you want to get her attention if you don't know her? Or, how did you get to know her if she doesn't know you exist?

Bit of an over-statement I suppose. It is this one nice Slavic girl at my Church. She's just so quiet and shy, (almost identical to me) and I've only spoken very few words to her in the past and made her laugh a few times, but other than that, I've never really sparked anything between us and she barely knows anything about me.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on May 06, 2012, 07:04:19 AM
How do you get a woman's attention when you feel invisible like she does not even know that you exist?
Why do you want to get her attention if you don't know her? Or, how did you get to know her if she doesn't know you exist?

Bit of an over-statement I suppose. It is this one nice Slavic girl at my Church. She's just so quiet and shy, (almost identical to me) and I've only spoken very few words to her in the past and made her laugh a few times, but other than that, I've never really sparked anything between us and she barely knows anything about me.
I think your moment to ask her out on a date was when you were making her laugh. But I'd go up and talk with her the next time you see her. If the conversation goes great end it by asking her to go on a date with you or hanging out someplace.

Don't be shy, what's the worst that can happen? She ignore you? Tells you no? Better to have known then never know at all only to regret you never made the move to find out.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Aindriú on May 06, 2012, 08:24:28 AM
Better to have known then never know at all only to regret you never made the move to find out.

Can punctuation save this sentence? Nah... The tenses are out of wack.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: NightOwl on May 06, 2012, 07:21:59 PM
What should I do, short of monasticism, if I have zero interest in relationships/marriage...? My ideal future at this point is living alone with a dog or two.

Is this a problem in the eyes of the Church?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: John of the North on May 06, 2012, 07:53:38 PM
What should I do, short of monasticism, if I have zero interest in relationships/marriage...? My ideal future at this point is living alone with a dog or two.

Is this a problem in the eyes of the Church?

The normative choice is between marriage and monasticism. That doesn't mean there are not exceptions, nor does it mean that there is only one right choice (ie a person may find a spiritual home on either path). It does mean that every Orthodox Christian should be in a relationship of obedience--typically this would be in obedience to one's spouse/children (in matrimony) or to a monastic community (monasticism). As my priest once told me, the Orthodox Church doesn't have celibacy--it has obedience.

Of course, the only real piece of advice I could give, would be to talk to your parish priest. :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on May 06, 2012, 08:50:41 PM
What should I do, short of monasticism, if I have zero interest in relationships/marriage...? My ideal future at this point is living alone with a dog or two.

Is this a problem in the eyes of the Church?

Oh, I am sure that you will find some in the "Church" that have a problem with this.  I am not one of them.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on May 06, 2012, 09:12:38 PM
What should I do, short of monasticism, if I have zero interest in relationships/marriage...? My ideal future at this point is living alone with a dog or two.

Is this a problem in the eyes of the Church?

If you are living alone and living in celibacy as well as saying your prayers and building up yourself spiritually, are you any different than a monk?  In fact, you are probably living a harder lifestyle.  People live together in monasteries for the sense of fellowship.  You are taking on many of their burdens without their benefits. 
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: LizaSymonenko on May 07, 2012, 03:25:59 PM
What should I do, short of monasticism, if I have zero interest in relationships/marriage...? My ideal future at this point is living alone with a dog or two.

Is this a problem in the eyes of the Church?

Gosh, I hope not!

 :o
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on May 17, 2012, 12:15:44 AM
One of these days, I suppose I'll have to find myself a girlfriend. Trouble is: most girls around me at college either have different priorities at this point int their lives, are more concerned with alcohol and sex, or have been indoctrinated into all sorts of 3rd wave feminist causes. Not to mention the fact that I've always thought myself too busy with studies (and too broke) to have a relationship.

Hopefully this will change soon.

Also, I'm not just my parents' only child, I'm the only grandchild on both sides. Pressures kinda on me. :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TheMathematician on May 17, 2012, 12:33:03 AM
One of these days, I suppose I'll have to find myself a girlfriend. Trouble is: most girls around me at college either have different priorities at this point int their lives, are more concerned with alcohol and sex, or have been indoctrinated into all sorts of 3rd wave feminist causes. Not to mention the fact that I've always thought myself too busy with studies (and too broke) to have a relationship.

Hopefully this will change soon.

Also, I'm not just my parents' only child, I'm the only grandchild on both sides. Pressures kinda on me. :P

In which case, after you are received into orthodoxy, then become a monastic :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on May 17, 2012, 01:12:07 AM
One of these days, I suppose I'll have to find myself a girlfriend. Trouble is: most girls around me at college either have different priorities at this point int their lives, are more concerned with alcohol and sex, or have been indoctrinated into all sorts of 3rd wave feminist causes. Not to mention the fact that I've always thought myself too busy with studies (and too broke) to have a relationship.

Hopefully this will change soon.

Also, I'm not just my parents' only child, I'm the only grandchild on both sides. Pressures kinda on me. :P

I haven't posted anything lately on this thread, but things have been a changin, and perhaps some of this news will help you guys take heart!  So anyway, I hooked up with this new girl a few months ago, Edwina. Things weren't all that serious, but one night we bought a case of Milwaukee's Best beer, and you know how good that stuff is, you just guzzle it down, so we ended up pretty far gone. Well, I blacked out. I'm not proud of it, but it happened. I didn't even realise it until weeks later though, I thought I had just gone to sleep!  But here's how I found out. A few weeks after that drinking night I was gonna break up with Eddy, so I just cut to the chase and said I wanted to see other people. Well she got all emotional, and frankly a little violent. I finally got her to leave, and I thought that was the end of it.

Then the next day she tells me that she preggers!  I was like "What are you talking about? We never had sex!"  Well apparently that night we drank all that beer I didn't know what I was doing and we ended up having sex before I passed out, but I just didn't remember it. And I was like, "but baby, you use an IUD..." and she said it must have fallen out or something. She's not showing yet, or getting sick or anything, but apparently this is legit! So take heart, things can happen in ways you never imagined!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on May 17, 2012, 01:34:32 AM
As usual, Asteriktos, I appreciate the insight. I haven't up hope yet, and I haven't truly begun to fight (so-to-speak).

One of these days, I suppose I'll have to find myself a girlfriend. Trouble is: most girls around me at college either have different priorities at this point int their lives, are more concerned with alcohol and sex, or have been indoctrinated into all sorts of 3rd wave feminist causes. Not to mention the fact that I've always thought myself too busy with studies (and too broke) to have a relationship.

Hopefully this will change soon.

Also, I'm not just my parents' only child, I'm the only grandchild on both sides. Pressures kinda on me. :P

In which case, after you are received into orthodoxy, then become a monastic :P

I've never really felt the calling to be a monastic, though, which is why I'm hoping that it's the married life for me.

Either way, I'm 22. I have plenty of years left to discern these things. Heh, my Dad didn't marry until he was 35 (and he was a Roman Catholic--at the time--so I assume there was some pressure on him to be a monastic).
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on May 17, 2012, 01:52:37 AM
My father is 62 this year and just got married for the fourth time. We're heading into Liz Taylor territory here, folks. My brother got married at 20 and was divorced by 25, so at least I got that nice little lesson from him (I'm three years younger than he is) not to marry my first serious girlfriend...hahaha. Sometimes I feel like I must be the only person of my age (I'll be 30 in about three months) who is not in a rush to get married. Can ya blame me?

There are much worse things than being in your early 20s and not being married, Ironchapman. Enjoy being single and don't let your family put any undue pressure on you. Men aren't baby factories either.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on May 17, 2012, 01:59:31 AM
My father is 62 this year and just got married for the fourth time. We're heading into Liz Taylor territory here, folks. My brother got married at 20 and was divorced by 25, so at least I got that nice little lesson from him (I'm three years younger than he is) not to marry my first serious girlfriend...hahaha. Sometimes I feel like I must be the only person of my age (I'll be 30 in about three months) who is not in a rush to get married. Can ya blame me?

There are much worse things than being in your early 20s and not being married, Ironchapman. Enjoy being single and don't let your family put any undue pressure on you. Men aren't baby factories either.
Glad I'm not alone, dzheremi!

My parents don't pressure me--or at least only rarely do so. It's more in my head. Still, I'd love to have a wife and kids one day.

In the mean time, I'm still working towards a Master's degree in History, and hopefully a doctorate. I'd like to be a professor one day. I've long been told I'd make a good teacher, and that's what I like doing.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on May 17, 2012, 02:05:36 AM
There ya go. And what woman of quality wouldn't want a fancy Doctor-Professor for a husband? This is also my strategy hope. 8)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on May 17, 2012, 02:09:50 AM
There ya go. And what woman of quality wouldn't want a fancy Doctor-Professor for a husband? This is also my strategy hope. 8)

"Hey girl, I'm a doctor!" :P

As a personal thing, I have 3 basic things I'm looking for:

1. A Christian (now that I'm interested in Orthodoxy, I'd say preferably and Orthodox Christian)
2. Intelligent (I want to be able to carry on a good conversation with this person)
3. A kind and decent person (I mean, none of us are perfect here, but I'd like a girl that at least tries. For my part, I'll do the same)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on May 17, 2012, 02:19:59 AM
Quote
"Hey girl, I'm a doctor!"  :P

Hahaha.

"Honestly...I can prescribe anything I want!" 8)

"...aren't you a linguist?"

"Yeah. Just say the word...!"  ;D

Wow, Jeremy...what a great illustration of why you are still single! (http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot)

(On the lookout for: A woman who finds my stupid sub-jokes funny. It's been a looooong 29 years. Haha.)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on May 17, 2012, 03:37:21 AM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesRottnek on May 17, 2012, 07:01:05 AM
My father is 62 this year and just got married for the fourth time. We're heading into Liz Taylor territory here, folks. My brother got married at 20 and was divorced by 25, so at least I got that nice little lesson from him (I'm three years younger than he is) not to marry my first serious girlfriend...hahaha. Sometimes I feel like I must be the only person of my age (I'll be 30 in about three months) who is not in a rush to get married. Can ya blame me?

There are much worse things than being in your early 20s and not being married, Ironchapman. Enjoy being single and don't let your family put any undue pressure on you. Men aren't baby factories either.

I can count more divorces; I win.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesRottnek on May 17, 2012, 07:01:05 AM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?

St. Isaac of Nineveh; because the greatest relationship is the one with God.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Big Chris on May 17, 2012, 08:23:43 AM
I'm disgusted with myself.

My fiance has been in Chicago for 3 weeks, and I'm lonely, I have no friends outside of work, no one to talk to really, and I've been flirting and entertaining thoughts with this assistant at the chiropractor's office.  Luckily I don't have the gumption to ever do anything about it, but still, I disgust myself.

‎"Two are better than one,
Because they have a good reward for their labor.
For if they fall, one will lift up his companion.
But woe to him who is alone when he falls,
For he has no one to help him up.
Again, if two lie down together, they will keep warm;
But how can one be warm alone?"
(Ecclesiastes 4:9-11)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on May 17, 2012, 11:29:54 AM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?

I don't know if there's an 'official' answer, but a good place to start might be St. Basil the Elder and his wife St. Emmilia of Caesarea. And their son, St. Gregory of Nyssa.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on May 17, 2012, 11:35:34 AM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?

I don't know if there's an 'official' answer, but a good place to start might be St. Basil the Elder and his wife St. Emmilia of Caesarea. And their son, St. Gregory of Nyssa.

I have prayed to the Theotokos, St. Nicholas, and at times to St. Xenia of St. Petersburg.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: TheMathematician on May 17, 2012, 12:39:46 PM
As usual, Asteriktos, I appreciate the insight. I haven't up hope yet, and I haven't truly begun to fight (so-to-speak).

One of these days, I suppose I'll have to find myself a girlfriend. Trouble is: most girls around me at college either have different priorities at this point int their lives, are more concerned with alcohol and sex, or have been indoctrinated into all sorts of 3rd wave feminist causes. Not to mention the fact that I've always thought myself too busy with studies (and too broke) to have a relationship.

Hopefully this will change soon.

Also, I'm not just my parents' only child, I'm the only grandchild on both sides. Pressures kinda on me. :P

In which case, after you are received into orthodoxy, then become a monastic :P

I've never really felt the calling to be a monastic, though, which is why I'm hoping that it's the married life for me.

Either way, I'm 22. I have plenty of years left to discern these things. Heh, my Dad didn't marry until he was 35 (and he was a Roman Catholic--at the time--so I assume there was some pressure on him to be a monastic).

*wooooooooooosh*

that went right over your head :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on May 17, 2012, 01:09:35 PM
As usual, Asteriktos, I appreciate the insight. I haven't up hope yet, and I haven't truly begun to fight (so-to-speak).

One of these days, I suppose I'll have to find myself a girlfriend. Trouble is: most girls around me at college either have different priorities at this point int their lives, are more concerned with alcohol and sex, or have been indoctrinated into all sorts of 3rd wave feminist causes. Not to mention the fact that I've always thought myself too busy with studies (and too broke) to have a relationship.

Hopefully this will change soon.

Also, I'm not just my parents' only child, I'm the only grandchild on both sides. Pressures kinda on me. :P

In which case, after you are received into orthodoxy, then become a monastic :P

I've never really felt the calling to be a monastic, though, which is why I'm hoping that it's the married life for me.

Either way, I'm 22. I have plenty of years left to discern these things. Heh, my Dad didn't marry until he was 35 (and he was a Roman Catholic--at the time--so I assume there was some pressure on him to be a monastic).

*wooooooooooosh*

that went right over your head :P
I apologize. Sometimes my sarcasm/joke interpreter goes on the fritz. :P
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on May 19, 2012, 12:16:45 AM
Ok, so this post isn't about dating a girl, it's about a different type of relationship. I was at the gym yesterday morning doing my Quads. I do double split a few days a week, and on Fridays it's quads in the morning and then hams/calves in the afternoon. So I'm doing my quad workout, on my 13th set of squats, going atg but I was doing drop sets so I only had bout tree fiddy on there. Anyway, so I'm checkout my form out in the mirror and I see this guy behind me on the leg press, and I was lulzing, like.. really... leg press? What a noob.  So this guy sees me looking at him, and after a couple minutes he comes over to me, and he's like "hey, can I work in?"  and I say "yeah, if you want, but I'm just about done anyway"  and he's like "oh ok, you want a spotter?"  and I'm like "nah brah, I got this"  and he's like  "ok". 

Anyway, so I get to the 15th set and he's still hanging around and making me nervous as hell. And he keeps looking at me the whole time. Whatever. But then he comes up to me and he's like "yo man, I think your form is off, you want me to spot you? I don't mind". At that point I was just annoyed, and only had one set to go, so I was like "yeah ok" and he was like "well alright, cool" and I was like "ok last set" and he was like "yeah let's get serious up in here".  So I start going down on the first rep of my last set--oh, and I'm on the Smith Machine, cause I don't like squat or power racks--and he's huggin the back of me and getting all close and stuff. It was really uncomfortable!  But anyway I finish and think that's it, so time to get my cardio in and get going (for cardio I walk down to the GNC in the same strip mall).

Then the guy's like "wait are you leaving?" and I'm like "yeah brah, I'm done for the day, did my squattin" and he's like "hey man, I need to work calves, could you help me out before you go?" and I didn't really want to, but I was like "yeah I guess". But then I thought about it and I was like "wait, why do you need help with calves?" and he was like "I wanna do donkey calf raises" and I was like "we don't even have that machine" and he's like "nah bro, I do things old school" and I was like "er, like arnold with those chicks on his back in pumping iron?" and he was like "yeah man, best calves exercise there is, hits your gastrocnemius like a mofo, none of that soleus crap". Well I didn't know what to do. But I had already said I'd help, so I ended up helping him. He kept wanting to do more and more sets though, and he was always like "come on man, just one more set?"  So finally I said "ok bro I need to get going, I'm almost to the end of my half hour window for my post workout meal, and if I don't get it in the next couple minutes all my work will be for nothing" and he was like "yeah I feel ya".

So I turn around to leave, but then he's like "hey man, hold on a sec, I been lookin for a workout partner, you wanna start liftin together?" and I was like "well I really don't lift with other people, I sorta like to lift alone" and he was like "aww see I think we could make some massive gains if we helped each other, ya know? don't you wanna be a beast?" and I was like "well yeah, everyone wants to be the freak, but I just don't know" and he was like "well hey, why don't we get together for lunch some time and we can talk about it?" and I was like "er... what? can't we just talk on facebook or something?" and he was like "hey man, I just wanna get to know you better, you feel me brotha?" and I was like "um..." and then he winked at me.

I don't know what to do. Help!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on May 19, 2012, 12:30:01 AM
 :D

Sounds totally legit. I mean, he said "gastrocnemius" and everything.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on May 19, 2012, 12:47:44 AM
Hyperdox Herman does not approve of homosexuality; it is a godless Greek invention.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on May 19, 2012, 12:48:39 AM
Hyperdox Herman does not approve of homosexuality; it is a godless Greek invention.

And sodomy is a Godless Latinization.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: SolEX01 on May 19, 2012, 01:08:28 AM
Be Clear, Be Polite, Don't Freeze Him Out

The Best Way to Turn a Guy Down (http://www.ehow.com/way_5799553_way-turn-guy-down.html)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on May 19, 2012, 01:44:50 AM
Hyperdox Herman does not approve of homosexuality; it is a godless Greek invention.

Hyperdox Herman does not approve of homosexuality; it is a godless Greek invention.

And sodomy is a Godless Latinization.

Be Clear, Be Polite, Don't Freeze Him Out

The Best Way to Turn a Guy Down (http://www.ehow.com/way_5799553_way-turn-guy-down.html)

 ???  ???  What? ZZ understood the situation, I think... I'm not sure what you men folk are trying to imply. I just want to know whether to make him my workout partner?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Anastasia1 on May 22, 2012, 05:00:20 PM
I had a date with a guy from a campaign I am volunteering on, and I am friendzoned, but some of the reasons I don't think were entirely clear about where I stand on them.  I don't know if I should say anything about them or not because this isn't enough to change anything right now. Depending on his job situation and how much he would be interested in getting married in a few years (I want to get married in a few years because I think it takes a couple years to get to know a person that well but I do want to get married), it might change something.

I came off rushed as to how fast I would be bf/gf or came off like that because we went a little far a little fast-which was fun but it also made me stop and talk about where we were going too soon, and because I really liked him and probably should not have been reading so many dating articles that day in the hopes of it going well.  

I am also ok with going slowly-though I don't understand this being friends first thing if that means only thinking platonically about a person for a while.  Is that what it means? You can only be 100% platonic with and about the person first?  If I am more interested in finding out if a guy and I are compatible when I meet a rareguy who could be the kind of guy that I want, does that mean my approach to relationshipsfundamentally differs from being friends first?

Also, I would have been less involved in the campaign if it did get awkward after a breakup or fight or something. I'm more involved because I have little reason not to be.  I have another avenue not to achieve one of the biggest reasons I started volunteering.  I was also unclear on something that I think could easily be resolved with regard to a boundar I have.I respect his reasons for friendzoning me, but with regard to some of them, I would rather know that I am rejected for what I am and where I stand than for a misconception.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on May 22, 2012, 05:41:50 PM
I had a date with a guy from a campaign I am volunteering on, and I am friendzoned, but some of the reasons I don't think were entirely clear about where I stand on them.  I don't know if I should say anything about them or not because this isn't enough to change anything right now. Depending on his job situation and how much he would be interested in getting married in a few years (I want to get married in a few years because I think it takes a couple years to get to know a person that well but I do want to get married), it might change something.

I came off rushed as to how fast I would be bf/gf or came off like that because we went a little far a little fast-which was fun but it also made me stop and talk about where we were going too soon, and because I really liked him and probably should not have been reading so many dating articles that day in the hopes of it going well.  

I am also ok with going slowly-though I don't understand this being friends first thing if that means only thinking platonically about a person for a while.  Is that what it means? You can only be 100% platonic with and about the person first?  If I am more interested in finding out if a guy and I are compatible when I meet a rareguy who could be the kind of guy that I want, does that mean my approach to relationshipsfundamentally differs from being friends first?

Also, I would have been less involved in the campaign if it did get awkward after a breakup or fight or something. I'm more involved because I have little reason not to be.  I have another avenue not to achieve one of the biggest reasons I started volunteering.  I was also unclear on something that I think could easily be resolved with regard to a boundar I have.I respect his reasons for friendzoning me, but with regard to some of them, I would rather know that I am rejected for what I am and where I stand than for a misconception.

Since this is a joke thread, let me start off by saying, Great Platypus.

Now, since I think you are being serious...friendzoning is pretty much a rejection.  Without knowing what reasons he gave you I cannot make many inferences about this, but I think it is reasonably safe to say you have been rejected.  Also, how far things rushed could play a major part in it.  If he got all he was after quickly, then there really was no need for him to stick around afterwards.  I know this probably sounds callous...but well, that's kind of what it is.

All the same, the best of luck to you.

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Cognomen on May 22, 2012, 06:23:30 PM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?

I don't know if there's an 'official' answer, but a good place to start might be St. Basil the Elder and his wife St. Emmilia of Caesarea. And their son, St. Gregory of Nyssa.

I have prayed to the Theotokos, St. Nicholas, and at times to St. Xenia of St. Petersburg.

Crossing them off my list then... 

;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on May 22, 2012, 06:35:31 PM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?

I don't know if there's an 'official' answer, but a good place to start might be St. Basil the Elder and his wife St. Emmilia of Caesarea. And their son, St. Gregory of Nyssa.

I have prayed to the Theotokos, St. Nicholas, and at times to St. Xenia of St. Petersburg.

Crossing them off my list then... 

;D

Oh My ! this is one of the funniest things I've read! ROFL!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on May 22, 2012, 07:06:13 PM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?

I don't know if there's an 'official' answer, but a good place to start might be St. Basil the Elder and his wife St. Emmilia of Caesarea. And their son, St. Gregory of Nyssa.

I have prayed to the Theotokos, St. Nicholas, and at times to St. Xenia of St. Petersburg.

Crossing them off my list then...  

;D

Ugh.

EDIT - Let's not blame the Saints for my numerous failures!    :police:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on May 22, 2012, 07:08:52 PM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?

I don't know if there's an 'official' answer, but a good place to start might be St. Basil the Elder and his wife St. Emmilia of Caesarea. And their son, St. Gregory of Nyssa.

I have prayed to the Theotokos, St. Nicholas, and at times to St. Xenia of St. Petersburg.

Crossing them off my list then... 

;D

Ugh.

+++huggs+++ ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on May 22, 2012, 07:14:52 PM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?

I don't know if there's an 'official' answer, but a good place to start might be St. Basil the Elder and his wife St. Emmilia of Caesarea. And their son, St. Gregory of Nyssa.

I have prayed to the Theotokos, St. Nicholas, and at times to St. Xenia of St. Petersburg.

Crossing them off my list then...  

;D

Ugh.

EDIT - Let's not blame the Saints for my numerous failures!    :police:
Its all perspective, you see, the  would have been disaster you have avoided is because of them. in that sense you have not failed but remain a success.When you meet the right person it will be clearer to you then that how much you need to be thankful for avoiding all those would have been failures... so .... perserver in your prayers to them.   :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on May 22, 2012, 07:49:20 PM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?

I don't know if there's an 'official' answer, but a good place to start might be St. Basil the Elder and his wife St. Emmilia of Caesarea. And their son, St. Gregory of Nyssa.

I have prayed to the Theotokos, St. Nicholas, and at times to St. Xenia of St. Petersburg.

Crossing them off my list then...  

;D

Ugh.

EDIT - Let's not blame the Saints for my numerous failures!    :police:
Its all perspective, you see, the  would have been disaster you have avoided is because of them. in that sense you have not failed but remain a success.When you meet the right person it will be clearer to you then that how much you need to be thankful for avoiding all those would have been failures... so .... perserver in your prayers to them.   :)

That's why I don't loose faith in prayer.  God has pulled my rear out of the fire enough times and if we are only going to get one boon, that's a good one to have!  (Honestly, God has blessed me plenty, it's just the areas that are lacking that are always the most noticeable!)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on May 22, 2012, 08:14:35 PM
BTW, who is the Saint (or Saints) for single people who are seeking a relationship (or however I should put it)?

I don't know if there's an 'official' answer, but a good place to start might be St. Basil the Elder and his wife St. Emmilia of Caesarea. And their son, St. Gregory of Nyssa.

I have prayed to the Theotokos, St. Nicholas, and at times to St. Xenia of St. Petersburg.

Crossing them off my list then...  

;D

Ugh.

EDIT - Let's not blame the Saints for my numerous failures!    :police:
Its all perspective, you see, the  would have been disaster you have avoided is because of them. in that sense you have not failed but remain a success.When you meet the right person it will be clearer to you then that how much you need to be thankful for avoiding all those would have been failures... so .... perserver in your prayers to them.   :)

That's why I don't loose faith in prayer.  God has pulled my rear out of the fire enough times and if we are only going to get one boon, that's a good one to have!  (Honestly, God has blessed me plenty, it's just the areas that are lacking that are always the most noticeable!)

I hear you! sometimes we need to be saved from ourselves. I too have been saved in that manner plenty of times. the world is crowded with what is fake,more than what is real and holy.  I believe that if a person  wants what is true in every sense of the term, then it takes a all the faithful commitment to that end that you can make. even at the risk of never finding it in the manner we wanted, we still can say, I will seek what God will be glorified in, what is holy and true,without God I want nothing, Thy will be done! settling for less will cause everyone unnecessary pain, and fails to fulfil the purpose of the christian marriage... to grow in holiness together. So what is the point of knowingly erring in such gigantic proportions, with such serious consequences?

No matter what the world may say, how much pressure to conform is put upon the person. The Christian has one ultimate purpose and can not deviate from it and still be a disciple. it is that serious. so trust God,do your part in all things that are yours to do, and he will do what is his to do. the feeding of the birds is his job, the flying to where the food is , is their job. the raising of Lazarus from the dead was his job, the removing of the stone was their job. so there is always cooperation with grace in all things.

May the Peace of the Lord be with us! :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on May 23, 2012, 05:53:50 PM
OK so Anastasia, I have been thinking about what you said, and I can not comment on it with out knowing certain elements, which I am not going to ask anyway. however , I thought listening to this video might give you one or two helpful ideas about Christian dating and its purpose. you may or may not agree with all that the abuna have to say about it, but it might still be helpful in some way. God bless you.

Purpose of Christian Dating Part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp8ZWFbu-fM

Purpose of Christian Dating part 2 :  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBmprQKq2mE&feature=relmfu
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on May 30, 2012, 12:14:24 AM
One tip for y'all...I've always been of the retarded opinion that you shouldn't compliment  woman on her looks right away.  I figured it would make you seem shallow and such.  You should compliment her one something else.  Perhaps an shared interest or on her intelligence or personality.  WRONG.  Wrong.  Compliment her on her looks.  Over the last few days I've found that if you compliment her on how she looks she will respond positively.    I mean, seriously.  Every single one.

Also, if you are talking to her online don't type to her while you are drunk.  I haven't done this yet but it doesn't seems like a good idea.

Peace, ninjas.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on May 30, 2012, 01:07:00 PM
One tip for y'all...I've always been of the retarded opinion that you shouldn't compliment  woman on her looks right away.  I figured it would make you seem shallow and such.  You should compliment her one something else.  Perhaps an shared interest or on her intelligence or personality.  WRONG.  Wrong.  Compliment her on her looks.  Over the last few days I've found that if you compliment her on how she looks she will respond positively.    I mean, seriously.  Every single one.

Also, if you are talking to her online don't type to her while you are drunk.  I haven't done this yet but it doesn't seems like a good idea.

Peace, ninjas.

And never tell them that they look like the South end of a mule heading North.  Of course, that usually happens when one is typing drunk.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on May 30, 2012, 01:25:04 PM
One tip for y'all...I've always been of the retarded opinion that you shouldn't compliment  woman on her looks right away.  I figured it would make you seem shallow and such.  You should compliment her one something else.  Perhaps an shared interest or on her intelligence or personality.  WRONG.  Wrong.  Compliment her on her looks.  Over the last few days I've found that if you compliment her on how she looks she will respond positively.    I mean, seriously.  Every single one.

Also, if you are talking to her online don't type to her while you are drunk.  I haven't done this yet but it doesn't seems like a good idea.

Peace, ninjas.

Also, don't type ANYTHING while you have a bit of rum in you.  Horrible spelling and grammatical errors may ensue. 

[hangs head in shame]
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on May 30, 2012, 01:52:55 PM
One tip for y'all...I've always been of the retarded opinion that you shouldn't compliment  woman on her looks right away.  I figured it would make you seem shallow and such.  You should compliment her one something else.  Perhaps an shared interest or on her intelligence or personality.  WRONG.  Wrong.  Compliment her on her looks.  Over the last few days I've found that if you compliment her on how she looks she will respond positively.    I mean, seriously.  Every single one.

Also, if you are talking to her online don't type to her while you are drunk.  I haven't done this yet but it doesn't seems like a good idea.

Peace, ninjas.

And never tell them that they look like the South end of a mule heading North.  Of course, that usually happens when one is typing drunk.

Ha!   :D :D :D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on June 14, 2012, 05:25:41 AM
I could use some advice
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on June 14, 2012, 05:52:08 AM
I could use some advice

1) Never get involved in a land war in asia
2) Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on June 14, 2012, 07:29:56 AM
I could use some advice

1) Never get involved in a land war in asia
2) Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line

Unless you're Genghis Kahn.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 10:20:50 AM
I could use some advice

1) Never get involved in a land war in asia
2) Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line

Unless you're Genghis Kahn.

He doesn't count.  The "no land wars in Asia" is a rule for white people to heed.  The Asians tend to do pretty well in their own wars...well, at least one side does.


What advice are you looking for, James?  If you are in need of dating tips I will share you the wealth of my experience.  Then, if you do the opposite, your chances for success will be assured!


BTW, I have a date tonight.
Chances of getting stood up: Fair
Chances of getting a third date with her: Vague (will know more later)
Chances of me feeling nervous: Certain

God have mercy!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Adela on June 14, 2012, 12:59:33 PM
I could use some advice

1) Never get involved in a land war in asia
2) Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line

Unless you're Genghis Kahn.

He doesn't count.  The "no land wars in Asia" is a rule for white people to heed.  The Asians tend to do pretty well in their own wars...well, at least one side does.


What advice are you looking for, James?  If you are in need of dating tips I will share you the wealth of my experience.  Then, if you do the opposite, your chances for success will be assured!


BTW, I have a date tonight.
Chances of getting stood up: Fair
Chances of getting a third date with her: Vague (will know more later)
Chances of me feeling nervous: Certain

God have mercy!


Vamrat,
  Good luck on your date tonight!  Don't be nervous, just remember that for every "bad" date you go on, you are one date closer to finding your true love!   It took me a while to find the right person, and I went on a lot of dates and I wonder now why I was so nervous.  Some were quite strange, such as this guy who worked with a friend, on the way out to a party he felt the need to stop of at KMart to look at men's underwear.  ???  So as long as you don't take her to the underwear section of Walmart, you have nothing to feel nervous about!

 :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on June 14, 2012, 01:01:16 PM
Quote
It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.

I love you, vamrat.

Please tell us all about your date tonight, good luck!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on June 14, 2012, 01:16:28 PM
Some were quite strange, such as this guy who worked with a friend, on the way out to a party he felt the need to stop of at KMart to look at men's underwear.  ???  So as long as you don't take her to the underwear section of Walmart, you have nothing to feel nervous about!

 :)

Sometimes you really have to wonder... :-\

Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Big Chris on June 14, 2012, 01:23:43 PM
Don't be nervous, just remember that for every "bad" date you go on, you are one date closer to finding your true love!  

When I finally took the attitude, "If this doesn't work out, I'll still be okay," things started working out.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 01:48:11 PM
Don't be nervous, just remember that for every "bad" date you go on, you are one date closer to finding your true love!  

When I finally took the attitude, "If this doesn't work out, I'll still be okay," things started working out.

I kind have gotten to that attitude as it is.  I honestly wasn't even expecting a call back from her when I got a text this morning on the way into work.  IDK.  Thanks for all the kind words.  Achronos and Adela as well.  I'll let you know how it crashes and burns turns out!

(BTW, my sig is unattributed, but comes from that second greatest OC.net philosopher - amartin.)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on June 14, 2012, 01:52:11 PM
(BTW, my sig is unattributed, but comes from that second greatest OC.net philosopher - amartin.)
Do I dare ask who is the first?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on June 14, 2012, 02:26:08 PM
Quote
It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.

I love you, vamrat.

Please tell us all about your date tonight, good luck!

I was sad to hear that the quote did not come from an Inquisitor.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 02:27:48 PM
(BTW, my sig is unattributed, but comes from that second greatest OC.net philosopher - amartin.)
Do I dare ask who is the first?

Three guesses!


Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: J Michael on June 14, 2012, 02:36:10 PM
(BTW, my sig is unattributed, but comes from that second greatest OC.net philosopher - amartin.)
Do I dare ask who is the first?

Three guesses!




1. amartin
2. amartin
3. amartin

(He's also the 3rd greatest OC.net philosopher, in case you were wondering.)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on June 14, 2012, 02:41:54 PM
(BTW, my sig is unattributed, but comes from that second greatest OC.net philosopher - amartin.)
Do I dare ask who is the first?

Three guesses!



1. pasadi
2. Dattaswami
3. ? Mystery guess
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 02:46:58 PM
(BTW, my sig is unattributed, but comes from that second greatest OC.net philosopher - amartin.)
Do I dare ask who is the first?

Three guesses!



1. pasadi
2. Dattaswami
3. ? Mystery guess

If you search through my previous posting, at least once in my life I stated that I wished I was this person.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: J Michael on June 14, 2012, 03:19:54 PM
(BTW, my sig is unattributed, but comes from that second greatest OC.net philosopher - amartin.)
Do I dare ask who is the first?

Three guesses!



1. pasadi
2. Dattaswami
3. ? Mystery guess

If you search through my previous posting, at least once in my life I stated that I wished I was this person.

Amartin?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: JamesR on June 14, 2012, 03:35:57 PM
Well the thing I need advice with is how to get over someone. Like two years ago, there was this one girl that I absolutely loved. She was like my best friend and we both had romantic feelings for each other. We would literally talk to each other 24/7, spend as much time together as we could and when we could not be together we would be on the phone all of the time or text messaging each other. We knew everything about each other; our deepest fears, embarassing things, ambitions etc. No one knew me better than she did and no one knew her better than I did. But, for some reason I cannot remember, we got into a bad fight, and so, we stopped talking to each other for like a year. But then after that year went by, we finally started talking again and saw each other a couple times. But, now it feels like we are absolute strangers. That special bond we had is entirely gone and destroyed; it is like we've separated into two absolutely different people like strangers that can barely hold a conversation with each other now. Oftentimes I find myself scolding myself for allowing us to have that fight and screwing this all up.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on June 14, 2012, 03:53:53 PM
If you search through my previous posting, at least once in my life I stated that I wished I was this person.

Perhaps...

For the record, I hope to someday reincarnate as orthonorm.

...?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 04:10:50 PM
If you search through my previous posting, at least once in my life I stated that I wished I was this person.

Perhaps...

For the record, I hope to someday reincarnate as orthonorm.

...?

Ding ding ding ding!

Your prize is that I will change my avatar to which ever Irish Saint that starts with a 'P' and has a feast day in March that you would like, and I will donate $10 to the terrorist organization of your choosing...(not really)!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on June 14, 2012, 04:24:19 PM
Ding ding ding ding!

Your prize is that I will change my avatar to which ever Irish Saint that starts with a 'P' and has a feast day in March that you would like, and I will donate $10 to the terrorist organization of your choosing...(not really)!

I tried to find a Saint that matched those criteria, other than St. Patrick, but came up empty :( I really wanted that prize!  :P  (some came close though, like St. Piran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Piran), who was maybe from Ireland, and maybe has a feast day in March, but I'm not sure if he is glorified by any Orthodox; another one was St. Psalmodius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalmodius), who was from Ireland and also possibly has a feast day in March, and again I'm not sure if the Orthodox glorify him).
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 04:28:18 PM
Well the thing I need advice with is how to get over someone. Like two years ago, there was this one girl that I absolutely loved. She was like my best friend and we both had romantic feelings for each other. We would literally talk to each other 24/7, spend as much time together as we could and when we could not be together we would be on the phone all of the time or text messaging each other. We knew everything about each other; our deepest fears, embarassing things, ambitions etc. No one knew me better than she did and no one knew her better than I did. But, for some reason I cannot remember, we got into a bad fight, and so, we stopped talking to each other for like a year. But then after that year went by, we finally started talking again and saw each other a couple times. But, now it feels like we are absolute strangers. That special bond we had is entirely gone and destroyed; it is like we've separated into two absolutely different people like strangers that can barely hold a conversation with each other now. Oftentimes I find myself scolding myself for allowing us to have that fight and screwing this all up.

Actually, this IS something I have a lot of experience with and have sound advice for.  Unfortunately, all the advice for this sucks.  That's just the breaks.

Strong emotional attachments trigger pleasure centers in your brain and release chemicals.  The closer you are to having gone through puberty the stronger these chemicals will be.  There is one surefire cure for this...time.  Sorry bro, but time is the only cure.  If I calculate correctly this happened when you were 14.  The first girl ever to shoot me down was when I was 15.  That hurt horribly for months and I would have the pain resurface YEARS after the fact.  But it will go away.  12 years and 30 days have passed since then (yeah, I know it's pathetic that I know that...) and I honestly can tell you I feel nothing.  Actually, I probably haven't felt the pain from this particular instance in seven or eight years, but you get my point.  This girl of yours will probably never be forgotten, nor will the pain be forgotten, but there will come a point where you WILL NOT feel the pain anymore.

As for future occurrences, you probably have a good number of them ahead of you.  Two things make the pain lessen each time.  First is age.  As you get older the chemicals become weaker.  The hormones die down.  I still get depressed but it is a bit less painful each time, and none of the recent rejections have felt as bad for as long as that first girl.  Second - experience.  The more times you get hurt by a girl the more you get deadened to it.  You will emotionally invest less and less quickly and rejections will soften in their effect.

So keep your chin up.  Life will always suck, but you will get used to it and won't let it affect you!


(BTW, none of this will probably do you any good, but that's how it goes.  Plenty of people gave me this info when I was your age and it didn't help a damn bit.  But now being older, I am thankful that I received the advice, so now I am paying them back through you, and in eleven years I expect you to do the same!   ;))
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 04:29:53 PM
Ding ding ding ding!

Your prize is that I will change my avatar to which ever Irish Saint that starts with a 'P' and has a feast day in March that you would like, and I will donate $10 to the terrorist organization of your choosing...(not really)!

I tried to find a Saint that matched those criteria, other than St. Patrick, but came up empty :( I really wanted that prize!  :P  (some came close though, like St. Piran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Piran), who was maybe from Ireland, and maybe has a feast day in March, but I'm not sure if he is glorified by any Orthodox; another one was St. Psalmodius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalmodius), who was from Ireland and also possibly has a feast day in March, and again I'm not sure if the Orthodox glorify him).

You want me to change my avatar to St. Patrick?  Fair enough.  It's a bit overdone now, seeing as like four or five other people all have the same avatar, but oh well.  It's the rules of the game!

[Avatar changed.]
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: neon_knights on June 14, 2012, 04:46:02 PM
I could use some advice. How does one attract a woman?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on June 14, 2012, 04:50:02 PM
I could use some advice. How does one attract a woman?
Who are you trying to attract?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: J Michael on June 14, 2012, 05:02:12 PM
I could use some advice. How does one attract a woman?

Pheromones.


+ good looks (whatever *that* means), intelligence, wit, wisdom, gracefulness, lots of $$, fast muscle cars ( ::)), humility (but not *too* much), pride (but not *too* much), not farting in public (at least not when you're with or near a woman you want to attract), a willingness to watch "chick flicks"....need I go on?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on June 14, 2012, 05:08:56 PM
+ good looks (whatever *that* means), intelligence, wit, wisdom, gracefulness, lots of $$, fast muscle cars ( ::)), humility (but not *too* much), pride (but not *too* much), not farting in public (at least not when you're with or near a woman you want to attract), a willingness to watch "chick flicks"....need I go on?
So what J Michael is saying here is you basically have to be me to get women.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 05:16:22 PM
I could use some advice. How does one attract a woman?

When I figure that out I'll sure as hell tell you nothing!  I won't be needing the competition!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: J Michael on June 14, 2012, 05:26:52 PM
+ good looks (whatever *that* means), intelligence, wit, wisdom, gracefulness, lots of $$, fast muscle cars ( ::)), humility (but not *too* much), pride (but not *too* much), not farting in public (at least not when you're with or near a woman you want to attract), a willingness to watch "chick flicks"....need I go on?
So what J Michael is saying here is you basically have to be me to get women.

You got it:

(http://images.stopthejabbing.multiply.com/image/kj93GxNKm6ugOPE2rQ3cJA/photos/1M/300x300/46/ugly-man.jpg?et=%2B%2BeEp%2CtpHD320JRE9r%2CYpw&nmid=0)


(What I was saying about good looks??  That's overrated.)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on June 14, 2012, 05:34:13 PM
You need a good pick up line. Something like: "Hey baby... you wanna find out why the ladies nicknamed me Buff Hardbody?"
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on June 14, 2012, 05:39:03 PM
I watch a lot of Discovery Channel, so I like to think of myself as something of an expert on the female species. If you want to attract one, you must try rolling around in something.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 08:31:19 PM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Oh, and she said that I need to update my dating site pictures.  Most people put their good ones up and are a few points uglier.  I, on the other hand am much hotter in real life than in my outdated pictures!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on June 14, 2012, 08:37:52 PM
I watch a lot of Discovery Channel, so I like to think of myself as something of an expert on the female species. If you want to attract one, you must try rolling around in something.
you and me baby aint nothing but mammals so lets do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on June 14, 2012, 08:39:20 PM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Oh, and she said that I need to update my dating site pictures.  Most people put their good ones up and are a few points uglier.  I, on the other hand am much hotter in real life than in my outdated pictures!
Let's see the photos.

Glad to hear it went good besides the religious differences.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on June 14, 2012, 08:44:41 PM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Oh, and she said that I need to update my dating site pictures.  Most people put their good ones up and are a few points uglier.  I, on the other hand am much hotter in real life than in my outdated pictures!

Fwiw I've always had a man-crush on you!  ;D  But glad the date didn't sink like the titanic>>>
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on June 14, 2012, 08:46:19 PM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Oh, and she said that I need to update my dating site pictures.  Most people put their good ones up and are a few points uglier.  I, on the other hand am much hotter in real life than in my outdated pictures!

Fwiw I've always had a man-crush on you!  ;D  But glad the date didn't sink like the titanic>>>
If it was as small as the ark maybe.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on June 14, 2012, 08:55:26 PM
I watch a lot of Discovery Channel, so I like to think of myself as something of an expert on the female species. If you want to attract one, you must try rolling around in something.
you and me baby aint nothing but mammals so lets do it like they do on the Discovery Channel

Wow. I had completely forgotten that that song exists.

Yep. I'm pretty sure I hate you now.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on June 14, 2012, 09:02:35 PM
 
I watch a lot of Discovery Channel, so I like to think of myself as something of an expert on the female species. If you want to attract one, you must try rolling around in something.
you and me baby aint nothing but mammals so lets do it like they do on the Discovery Channel

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

can you hear the drums ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7AEV7kKifo
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 09:08:39 PM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Oh, and she said that I need to update my dating site pictures.  Most people put their good ones up and are a few points uglier.  I, on the other hand am much hotter in real life than in my outdated pictures!
Let's see the photos.

Glad to hear it went good besides the religious differences.

Are you and I friends on Facebook?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on June 14, 2012, 09:08:55 PM
I could use some advice. How does one attract a woman?

Money.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on June 14, 2012, 09:09:03 PM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Oh, and she said that I need to update my dating site pictures.  Most people put their good ones up and are a few points uglier.  I, on the other hand am much hotter in real life than in my outdated pictures!

Vamrat thats wonderful and a great start , you guys took out the stress factor and just focused on having fun , that made it possible to enjoy your time together. very cool! ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Hiwot on June 14, 2012, 09:18:26 PM
I could use some advice. How does one attract a woman?

depends on what kind you want to attract my bro  :)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 09:33:37 PM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Oh, and she said that I need to update my dating site pictures.  Most people put their good ones up and are a few points uglier.  I, on the other hand am much hotter in real life than in my outdated pictures!

Vamrat thats wonderful and a great start , you guys took out the stress factor and just focused on having fun , that made it possible to enjoy your time together. very cool! ;D

Thanks.  Back tot he akathists for me!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on June 14, 2012, 09:36:34 PM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Oh, and she said that I need to update my dating site pictures.  Most people put their good ones up and are a few points uglier.  I, on the other hand am much hotter in real life than in my outdated pictures!
Let's see the photos.

Glad to hear it went good besides the religious differences.

Are you and I friends on Facebook?
PM me your link.

I may have tried to add you.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: LizaSymonenko on June 14, 2012, 09:44:41 PM
Oh, and she said that I need to update my dating site pictures.  Most people put their good ones up and are a few points uglier.  I, on the other hand am much hotter in real life than in my outdated pictures!

...just saying, ...that going by your profile picture on Facebook....I think most girls would turn and run. 

;)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 14, 2012, 10:08:38 PM
Oh, and she said that I need to update my dating site pictures.  Most people put their good ones up and are a few points uglier.  I, on the other hand am much hotter in real life than in my outdated pictures!

...just saying, ...that going by your profile picture on Facebook....I think most girls would turn and run. 

;)


(http://i.imgur.com/pLAIu.gif)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: LizaSymonenko on June 14, 2012, 10:14:30 PM

Ya....that's the one.    ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Shiny on June 14, 2012, 10:42:51 PM
Move over Ayn Rand icon of castration...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on June 14, 2012, 11:02:19 PM
Whelp...celibacy just got a lot easier...yikes!
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on June 14, 2012, 11:07:57 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/pLAIu.gif)

Just like Dad...

(http://www.koinovacance.org/luen/theblog/otherpics/howardelpato2.jpg)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Cognomen on June 14, 2012, 11:40:36 PM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Nice!

I'm beginning to worry about your fixation on Yolandi Visser though.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 15, 2012, 12:10:05 AM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Nice!

I'm beginning to worry about your fixation on Yolandi Visser though.

She's the third sexiest woman I've ever lusted after.  

I might ask her to marry me.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: J Michael on June 15, 2012, 10:08:20 AM
To all my well wishers, I've just had one of the best dates of my life.  We got about half an hour in and discovered a major difference in religious principals.  She said, "So, yeah, this probably isn't..." and trailed off.  "Nope.  Probably not." I said.  We sat in awkward silence for a moment or two and I said, "Well, we can go our separate ways and never talk again or we can make the most of dinner and get to know one another a little more and become friends."  She perked up immediately and we talked for almost an hour more.

Nice!

I'm beginning to worry about your fixation on Yolandi Visser though.

She's the third sexiest woman I've ever lusted after.  

I might ask her to marry me.

What's the prize for guessing who are #1 and #2?

(I vote for amartin  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:)

Or maybe....

(http://api.ning.com/files/r9UUgKaAyo-eT3b38BeL51-pb7uF5BaimO1bmOqF4c39JRBKEovNAELGJRqE3RsOjGdBSG3jQElSPJVKNHJUlNG1SjYAylOA/rosieksm.jpg)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on June 15, 2012, 10:14:52 AM
#2 is...

(http://www.buzzinn.net/img/bizarre-and-odd/weird-female-bodybuilder/weird-female-bodybuilder08.jpg)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: J Michael on June 15, 2012, 10:27:35 AM
#2 is...

(http://www.buzzinn.net/img/bizarre-and-odd/weird-female-bodybuilder/weird-female-bodybuilder08.jpg)

ROTFL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Guess vamrat's all set now, eh  ;D?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 15, 2012, 10:36:57 AM
I was joking about the #3 bit. 

#'s 1 and 2 I've actually dated.  I don't consider movie stars or whathaveyou as proper full blown lust.  To properly lust you have to really want to complete the action, as it were.  I don't concentrate on impossibilities (i.e. me and Sandra Bullock...not happening.  Ever.)  Thus, it's not really lust.  It's still sinful, but I'm not sure if it's lust.

Also note that the prettiest woman I've ever seen is not one that I have lusted after.  She was married and Orthodox.  I have some boundaries.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on June 15, 2012, 10:46:55 AM
Also note that the prettiest woman I've ever seen is not one that I have lusted after.  She was married and Orthodox.  I have some boundaries.

This is good. The world needs men like you. Men of conscience. Men of principle. Men who can sleep at night.* The world also needs men like me, who would lust after such a woman with the fury of a thousand gods. If there were no wicked men like me, how would anyone discern the goodness of men like you? You're welcome.



(I stole this phrasing from somewhere else, but men like me don't give credit to those who deserve it)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on June 15, 2012, 10:48:08 AM
ROTFL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Guess vamrat's all set now, eh  ;D?

I'm still searching for #1...  :angel:
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: J Michael on June 15, 2012, 10:49:49 AM
ROTFL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Guess vamrat's all set now, eh  ;D?

I'm still searching for #1...  :angel:

For you?  Or for vamrat?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Asteriktos on June 15, 2012, 10:51:31 AM
ROTFL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Guess vamrat's all set now, eh  ;D?

I'm still searching for #1...  :angel:

For you?  Or for vamrat?

I found my #1 for me (just wish she wasn't married, had several kids, lived quite a distance from me, wasn't a former tharapist of mine, and... er... wait... I've said too much already :) ).  I mean vamrat's...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 15, 2012, 11:10:06 AM
ROTFL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Guess vamrat's all set now, eh  ;D?

I'm still searching for #1...  :angel:

For you?  Or for vamrat?

I found my #1 for me (just wish she wasn't married, had several kids, lived quite a distance from me, wasn't a former tharapist of mine, and... er... wait... I've said too much already :) ).  I mean vamrat's...

I don't even want to know which sea monster you intend to dredge up to defame my choice in women...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: J Michael on June 15, 2012, 11:14:30 AM
ROTFL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Guess vamrat's all set now, eh  ;D?

I'm still searching for #1...  :angel:

For you?  Or for vamrat?

I found my #1 for me (just wish she wasn't married, had several kids, lived quite a distance from me, wasn't a former tharapist of mine, and... er... wait... I've said too much already :) ).  I mean vamrat's...

In that case, I refer you back to my reply #706 above  ;D.  If I'm not mistaken (who, me??) I'm pretty sure the pic is amartin's.  Dead-ringer for Rosie O. ;D
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on June 15, 2012, 03:04:10 PM
Still searching for someone...
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ZealousZeal on June 15, 2012, 03:27:19 PM
This thread is so fun.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on June 15, 2012, 05:33:31 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/pLAIu.gif)

There isn't enough Viagra in the whole world . . .

There are other pictures of her, however, that confuse a certain part of my anatomy.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Punch on June 15, 2012, 05:36:02 PM
#2 is...

(http://www.buzzinn.net/img/bizarre-and-odd/weird-female-bodybuilder/weird-female-bodybuilder08.jpg)

I'm sorry, but that literally scared the stuff out of me.  I am going to sign off so that I can complete a skivvies check.  Thank God I carry a spare pair with me.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on June 27, 2012, 04:24:05 AM
Bumped, because I still need a girlfriend.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 27, 2012, 09:16:18 AM
How much money do you have in your bank account?
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: ironchapman on June 27, 2012, 08:52:02 PM
How much money do you have in your bank account?

Lol, me have money. I don't even have a job (well, I will in the Fall as a grad assistant--but that's peanuts)
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 27, 2012, 08:54:46 PM
How much money do you have in your bank account?

Lol, me have money. I don't even have a job (well, I will in the Fall as a grad assistant--but that's peanuts)

If you go to a convenience store, you can theoretically rob them just by saying you have a gun.  It should be enough for a couple good dates.  Wear a mask.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on June 27, 2012, 10:17:14 PM
Is it a good idea to ask out a girl who, previously in a class setting, has expressed that she's not sure if she wants a relationship in her life? I don't want to wind up damaging our friendship as has happened with other girls before.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: witega on June 27, 2012, 10:22:30 PM
Is it a good idea to ask out a girl who, previously in a class setting, has expressed that she's not sure if she wants a relationship in her life? I don't want to wind up damaging our friendship as has happened with other girls before.

What anyone expresses in a class setting is not indicative of how they will behave or react in real life. Ask away.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: akimori makoto on June 27, 2012, 10:24:41 PM
Is it a good idea to ask out a girl who, previously in a class setting, has expressed that she's not sure if she wants a relationship in her life? I don't want to wind up damaging our friendship as has happened with other girls before.

Might sound brutal and a bit chauvenistic but, if you are prone to friend-zoning, I'm sure you have more than enough female friends and too few girlfriends.

I am not one of those who expects you to form amorous intentions the moment you meet a girl, but once you have realised that you would like to take the relationship to another level, you owe it to yourself to give that an attempt.

My brief two cents.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on June 27, 2012, 10:30:29 PM
Is it a good idea to ask out a girl who, previously in a class setting, has expressed that she's not sure if she wants a relationship in her life? I don't want to wind up damaging our friendship as has happened with other girls before.

What anyone expresses in a class setting is not indicative of how they will behave or react in real life. Ask away.
Tis true, but with this girl I'm inclined to take it more seriously as she's a bit of a shrinking violet who doesn't have a lot of friends other than me.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on June 27, 2012, 10:34:01 PM
Is it a good idea to ask out a girl who, previously in a class setting, has expressed that she's not sure if she wants a relationship in her life? I don't want to wind up damaging our friendship as has happened with other girls before.

Might sound brutal and a bit chauvenistic but, if you are prone to friend-zoning, I'm sure you have more than enough female friends and too few girlfriends.

I am not one of those who expects you to form amorous intentions the moment you meet a girl, but once you have realised that you would like to take the relationship to another level, you owe it to yourself to give that an attempt.

My brief two cents.
I agree that I need to be proactive, but as I said in my last post, I really don't want to risk hurting this girl.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 27, 2012, 10:57:02 PM
Is it a good idea to ask out a girl who, previously in a class setting, has expressed that she's not sure if she wants a relationship in her life? I don't want to wind up damaging our friendship as has happened with other girls before.

Might sound brutal and a bit chauvenistic but, if you are prone to friend-zoning, I'm sure you have more than enough female friends and too few girlfriends.

I am not one of those who expects you to form amorous intentions the moment you meet a girl, but once you have realised that you would like to take the relationship to another level, you owe it to yourself to give that an attempt.

My brief two cents.

Women have friends.  They have boyfriends and they have girlfriends.  Unless you are with them, you're their girlfriend.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: dzheremi on June 27, 2012, 11:04:43 PM
How would it hurt her to ask her out? You're thinking too much. Just do it and get it over with, and deal with whatever consequences when they actually happen.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on June 27, 2012, 11:08:43 PM
How would it hurt her to ask her out?
I disagree. Every time in the past that I've asked a girl out, it's been weird between us ever since. It's like trying to be friends with your Ex (though obviously not with the same emotional baggage). Yes, you can be amicable but there will always be that elephant in the room, things will never be like they were if you hadn't ever gone there.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: Volnutt on June 27, 2012, 11:10:31 PM
Is it a good idea to ask out a girl who, previously in a class setting, has expressed that she's not sure if she wants a relationship in her life? I don't want to wind up damaging our friendship as has happened with other girls before.

Might sound brutal and a bit chauvenistic but, if you are prone to friend-zoning, I'm sure you have more than enough female friends and too few girlfriends.

I am not one of those who expects you to form amorous intentions the moment you meet a girl, but once you have realised that you would like to take the relationship to another level, you owe it to yourself to give that an attempt.

My brief two cents.

Women have friends.  They have boyfriends and they have girlfriends.  Unless you are with them, you're their girlfriend.
I can live with that. God knows I have no testosterone to speak of anyway.
Title: Re: Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column
Post by: vamrat on June 27, 2012, 11:17:21 PM