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Moderated Forums => Free-For-All => Non-Religious Topics => Topic started by: Xenia1918 on June 27, 2011, 09:18:11 AM

Title: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on June 27, 2011, 09:18:11 AM
CONTEXT: This thread started here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,29519.msg597836.html#msg597836 (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,29519.msg597836.html#msg597836)  -PtA



I'm going to send this link to a Coptic friend of mine who couldn't believe that Israel will destroy Christian sites as well when they get the chance.

The propganda the zionists and their willing henchmen ("Christian" zionists) spread in America and elsewhere is that they are the protectors of Christian holy sites. Ha!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on June 27, 2011, 09:21:32 AM
(Sigh) This constant desire by some posters here to paint Israel (code word for "Jews") in the worst, most evil ways, making them the villains whenever possible, is one big reason I've held back from converting to EO.  I'm hoping this is primarily an "Internet Orthodox" thing and not part of mainstream Orthodoxy, but threads like this make me wonder. :(

I was born and raised an Orthodox Jew, and I have never been a zionist. Did you know that the most religious Jews are antizionist, for theological reasons? "Zionist" is not always a code word for "Jew", not when there are religious Jews, and Jewish Christians like me, who are also antizionist.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on June 27, 2011, 09:25:08 AM
Perhaps they're not. :)

As I said in my previous post, I was born and raised an Orthodox Jew, was raised in an Orthodox Jewish community, and in fact, still reside in one now. I know what Jews think from the inside.

Do you have ANY idea what many Jews say behind the backs of Christians? I do....and in fact it was one reason why I eventually drifted toward Christianity.

I was taught in Hebrew school that "love your neighbor as yourself" only applies to other Jews. I was taught that when Moshiach comes, Jews will be in charge and Gentiles will be their servants.

Like many Christians, you have a naive attitude toward Jews because you don't know what they really say and think about you.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: BoredMeeting on June 27, 2011, 03:53:43 PM
Father Atallah Hanna? Hmmm, where do I remember that name from?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on June 27, 2011, 05:48:52 PM
Perhaps they're not. :)

As I said in my previous post, I was born and raised an Orthodox Jew, was raised in an Orthodox Jewish community, and in fact, still reside in one now. I know what Jews think from the inside.

Do you have ANY idea what many Jews say behind the backs of Christians? I do....and in fact it was one reason why I eventually drifted toward Christianity.

I was taught in Hebrew school that "love your neighbor as yourself" only applies to other Jews. I was taught that when Moshiach comes, Jews will be in charge and Gentiles will be their servants.

Like many Christians, you have a naive attitude toward Jews because you don't know what they really say and think about you.

Thank you for your honesty here!

This is a truth that American Christians are largely unaware of. American Orthodoxy needs you!

I think if anyone but you had written that there would be an uproar here!

What is your opinion of Br. Nathanael Kapner @ http://www.realzionistnews.com ?

Thanks
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on June 27, 2011, 05:55:16 PM
You left out some of the info from the article I linked - namely that part of the reasom for all the new construction is because of the large influx of tourists to the area and efforts to accommodate them with bathrooms, parking lots, etc.  Not necessarily an intentional attempt to obliterate Christian artifacts, as seems to be implied by some.

Same old agenda. Same old half of the facts reporting.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on June 27, 2011, 05:57:47 PM
Perhaps they're not. :)

As I said in my previous post, I was born and raised an Orthodox Jew, was raised in an Orthodox Jewish community, and in fact, still reside in one now. I know what Jews think from the inside.

Do you have ANY idea what many Jews say behind the backs of Christians? I do....and in fact it was one reason why I eventually drifted toward Christianity.

I was taught in Hebrew school that "love your neighbor as yourself" only applies to other Jews. I was taught that when Moshiach comes, Jews will be in charge and Gentiles will be their servants.

Like many Christians, you have a naive attitude toward Jews because you don't know what they really say and think about you.

The goys would be quite surprised to hear indeed, especially our resident philozionists.

EDIT: No one get smart with me about the plural of goy.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PoorFoolNicholas on June 27, 2011, 06:01:51 PM
Quote
What is your opinion of Br. Nathanael Kapner @ http://www.realzionistnews.com ?
Why would we care about him? He is NOT even an Orthodox Christian!!!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Cognomen on June 27, 2011, 06:44:32 PM
Xenia, I appreciate your perspective.  Glad to have you on here.

Quote
What is your opinion of Br. Nathanael Kapner @ http://www.realzionistnews.com ?
Why would we care about him? He is NOT even an Orthodox Christian!!!

Indeed.  Let's not ruin discussion with that guy's insanity and embarrassing, false representation of Orthodoxy. 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on June 28, 2011, 02:50:57 AM
Quote
What is your opinion of Br. Nathanael Kapner @ http://www.realzionistnews.com ?
Why would we care about him? He is NOT even an Orthodox Christian!!!

Says who?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 04, 2011, 02:02:15 AM
Quote
What is your opinion of Br. Nathanael Kapner @ http://www.realzionistnews.com ?
Why would we care about him? He is NOT even an Orthodox Christian!!!

Says who?
Seconded.

PoorFoolNicholas : If we are going to start making accusations concerning an individual's Orthodoxy, we should at least come with evidence to support these claims. What leads you to believe that Br. Nathanael is not an Orthodox Christian?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 04, 2011, 03:29:58 AM
Quote
What is your opinion of Br. Nathanael Kapner @ http://www.realzionistnews.com ?
Why would we care about him? He is NOT even an Orthodox Christian!!!

Says who?
Seconded.

PoorFoolNicholas : If we are going to start making accusations concerning an individual's Orthodoxy, we should at least come with evidence to support these claims. What leads you to believe that Br. Nathanael is not an Orthodox Christian?

Thanks.

I would also add that I was specifically asking Xenia1918 what her opinion was.

It peeves me when people try to set the parameters of someone else's discussion. Now her response (if she responds at all) will likely take these interjected opinions into account.

If I were a judge I would have to admonish Xenia1918 to disregard the statements of PoorFoolNicholas and Cognomen when rendering her verdict.

Being of a Judaic background, Xenia1918 (and also Br. Nathanael for that matter) know firsthand things that PFN and Cognomen DO NOT and cannot know because these things are hidden from them.

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 04, 2011, 10:40:31 AM
Quote
What is your opinion of Br. Nathanael Kapner @ http://www.realzionistnews.com ?
Why would we care about him? He is NOT even an Orthodox Christian!!!

Says who?
Seconded.

PoorFoolNicholas : If we are going to start making accusations concerning an individual's Orthodoxy, we should at least come with evidence to support these claims. What leads you to believe that Br. Nathanael is not an Orthodox Christian?

Thanks.

I would also add that I was specifically asking Xenia1918 what her opinion was.

It peeves me when people try to set the parameters of someone else's discussion. Now her response (if she responds at all) will likely take these interjected opinions into account.

If I were a judge I would have to admonish Xenia1918 to disregard the statements of PoorFoolNicholas and Cognomen when rendering her verdict.

Being of a Judaic background, Xenia1918 (and also Br. Nathanael for that matter) know firsthand things that PFN and Cognomen DO NOT and cannot know because these things are hidden from them.



There are several people on this board with Jewish Ancestry.. One or two may really surprise you. Her perspective is not universally held. I would not bestow her with any great creditability or as having any special inside info. She is just singing to the choir  IMHO

Let's start at the beginning:

Hate = Bad

Love = Good

Thanx
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: mike on July 04, 2011, 11:33:27 AM
Quote
What is your opinion of Br. Nathanael Kapner @ http://www.realzionistnews.com ?
Why would we care about him? He is NOT even an Orthodox Christian!!!

He is a member of a ROCOR-like Church but he is not a Monk.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 04, 2011, 02:48:47 PM
Perhaps they're not. :)

As I said in my previous post, I was born and raised an Orthodox Jew, was raised in an Orthodox Jewish community, and in fact, still reside in one now. I know what Jews think from the inside.

Do you have ANY idea what many Jews say behind the backs of Christians? I do....and in fact it was one reason why I eventually drifted toward Christianity.

I was taught in Hebrew school that "love your neighbor as yourself" only applies to other Jews. I was taught that when Moshiach comes, Jews will be in charge and Gentiles will be their servants.

Like many Christians, you have a naive attitude toward Jews because you don't know what they really say and think about you.

Thank you for your honesty here!

This is a truth that American Christians are largely unaware of. American Orthodoxy needs you!

I think if anyone but you had written that there would be an uproar here!

What is your opinion of Br. Nathanael Kapner @ http://www.realzionistnews.com ?

Thanks

I know, which is why I felt I should say it. :)

As for Bro Nathanael, I actually spoke to him on the phone when I first became interested in Orthodoxy. I wanted to find out what made him so angry about Judaism, and I was wondering if it was some of the same things I learned. Turned out it was a totally different set of issues with him. PERSONALLY, I think the way he goes about his website is not very charitable, even if much of the info is true/ But after speaking to him and reading much of his site, I understand why he feels as strongly as he does.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 04, 2011, 07:51:39 PM
Quote
What is your opinion of Br. Nathanael Kapner @ http://www.realzionistnews.com ?
Why would we care about him? He is NOT even an Orthodox Christian!!!

Says who?
Seconded.

PoorFoolNicholas : If we are going to start making accusations concerning an individual's Orthodoxy, we should at least come with evidence to support these claims. What leads you to believe that Br. Nathanael is not an Orthodox Christian?

Thanks.

I would also add that I was specifically asking Xenia1918 what her opinion was.

It peeves me when people try to set the parameters of someone else's discussion. Now her response (if she responds at all) will likely take these interjected opinions into account.

If I were a judge I would have to admonish Xenia1918 to disregard the statements of PoorFoolNicholas and Cognomen when rendering her verdict.

Being of a Judaic background, Xenia1918 (and also Br. Nathanael for that matter) know firsthand things that PFN and Cognomen DO NOT and cannot know because these things are hidden from them.



There are several people on this board with Jewish Ancestry.. One or two may really surprise you. Her perspective is not universally held. I would not bestow her with any great creditability or as having any special inside info. She is just singing to the choir  IMHO

Let's start at the beginning:

Hate = Bad

Love = Good

Thanx

Her credibility is good with me. I've seen her exhibit here great honesty in admitting that the Jews are not only the eternal victim as the majority would have us believe.

Looking through some of your past posts I cannot say the same for you. You are clearly an apologist for the genocidal Jewish state. Jews are always the good guys according to you, and always the victims.

What choir is she singing to? Let me guess - the ever antisemitic Christians right?

Have you ever considered that what you call antisemitism might actually be a reaction to rampant Jewish antigentilism and anti-Christianity? Seems like you haven't. Perhaps you should.

According to your view, it's always been the Christians who have been antisemitic, hateful liars and the Jews have never been anti-Christian, and are always loving and 100% truthful, right?

I fully agree that hate is bad. Pointing out and exposing the largely hidden and two-faced hatred espoused in the beliefs and teachings of the Jews for however does not constitute a reciprocal hatred toward them.

Christians are taught to love their enemies and that everyone (including a Jew) can be a "neighbor."

Jews are taught (as Xenia1918 bravely admits) that only other Jews are called "neighbor", and that only Jews are called "men" in the Old Testament.

Maybe that's why those who you have deemed "Gentiles scare" you.

You've been taught a bunch of nonsense and lies.

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 04, 2011, 07:57:08 PM
Sigh... do you have to be very virulently for or against something, to post about news and politics on this site? Are you allowed to have an opinion which falls short of calling whole groups or countries evil and the Antichrist and so on?  :-\

Standard disclaimer: I'm not perfect either. Still... yipes.   :P

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 04, 2011, 08:35:16 PM
What choir is she singing to? Let me guess - the ever antisemitic Christians right?

Umm..yeah.. got me..pretty much

Have you ever considered that what you call antisemitism might actually be a reaction to rampant Jewish antigentilism and anti-Christianity? Seems like you haven't. Perhaps you should.

I think not.

Remember, getting an exorcism is always is an option for you..Just a friendly suggestion.  Consider it
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 04, 2011, 08:38:09 PM
Maybe that's why those who you have deemed "Gentiles scare" you.

You said you were scared of Clowns.

Ever been spit on by one?

Denied public accommodation?

Ever had a Clown beat you up?

Probably not.

 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Cognomen on July 04, 2011, 08:57:14 PM
He is a member of a ROCOR-like Church.

What is a ROCOR-like Church?

Quote
but he is not a Monk.

Would his defenders care to correct, comment on, or defend his apparent monastic charade?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 04, 2011, 09:06:33 PM
Its a shame that Brother Nathanael acts so "out there", because a lot of what he says on his site is true, or at least has a basis in the truth.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 04, 2011, 10:32:26 PM
I just took some time and looked at "Brother Nathanial's" web page and viewed a couple of his video's.

Oh yeah.. He's sane.

Btw. The first Video was called "My Life as an Orthodox Monk".. He copped ( American Slang for Stole) clips from the recent 60 minutes documentary about Mt. Athos... I wonder why he didn't have pix of his own place? I wonder if CBS gave him permission to use their clips...   I'm thinking not.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 05, 2011, 02:46:30 AM
What choir is she singing to? Let me guess - the ever antisemitic Christians right?

Umm..yeah.. got me..pretty much

Have you ever considered that what you call antisemitism might actually be a reaction to rampant Jewish antigentilism and anti-Christianity? Seems like you haven't. Perhaps you should.

I think not.

Remember, getting an exorcism is always is an option for you..Just a friendly suggestion.  Consider it

Because if you don't think the Jews are better than all other races you are the devil...  ::)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 05, 2011, 02:46:30 AM
Maybe that's why those who you have deemed "Gentiles scare" you.

You said you were scared of Clowns.

Ever been spit on by one?

Denied public accommodation?

Ever had a Clown beat you up?

Probably not.

 

You're right, they arent better than Jews...but Jews are better than them!  :angel:
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 05, 2011, 09:01:57 PM
What choir is she singing to? Let me guess - the ever antisemitic Christians right?

Umm..yeah.. got me..pretty much

What is and has been, in your opinion the root cause of the Christian "antisemitism" which you perceive?

Quote

Have you ever considered that what you call antisemitism might actually be a reaction to rampant Jewish antigentilism and anti-Christianity? Seems like you haven't. Perhaps you should.

I think not.

Remember, getting an exorcism is always is an option for you..Just a friendly suggestion.  Consider it

That's the standard Jewish type reply when the tables are turned: insinuations of insanity and demonic possession. I thought you were a Christian though. Why do you defend the wrongs of the Judaists while accusing your fellow Christians?

Do you deny that many, many Jews (and certainly their Talmudic teachings) are in fact antigentile & especially anti-Jesus and anti-Christian?

Maybe that's why those who you have deemed "Gentiles scare" you.

You said you were scared of Clowns.

Nah, you're getting me confused with Primuspilus.

Quote
Ever been spit on by one?

No. But Christians are regularly spit upon by Jews in the Holy Land.

Quote
Denied public accommodation?

Blacks (and especially non-Jews) are second class citizens in the Jewish state.

Israel Accused of Discrimination (http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=israel+accused+of+discrimination&oq=israel+accused+of+discrimination&aq=f&aqi=g-v1&aql=undefined&gs_sm=si&gs_upl=3426l3426l0l1l1l0l0l0l0l119l119l0.1l1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=51229a803ffeec22&biw=1138&bih=501)

Quote
Ever had a Clown beat you up?

Probably not.
 

No. But even if I had - it wouldn't make me "scared" of them.

People of all stripes get beat-up every day.

Are you telling us that you were beat up for no other reason than the fact that you were a Jew?

Christians have been killed by Jews in the Jewish state only because they were Christian. Does this mean all Christians are now  justified in being "scared" of all Israeli Jews?

I just took some time and looked at "Brother Nathanial's" web page and viewed a couple of his video's.

Oh yeah.. He's sane.

There you go with accusations of insanity. I guess he needs an exorcism too huh? And Xenia1918 now needs one as well, right?

Quote
Btw. The first Video was called "My Life as an Orthodox Monk".. He copped ( American Slang for Stole) clips from the recent 60 minutes documentary about Mt. Athos... I wonder why he didn't have pix of his own place? I wonder if CBS gave him permission to use their clips...   I'm thinking not.

Yes, how dare Br. Nathanael not have video documentation of himself in a monastery from ten years ago?

As for the clips from 60 Minutes - ever heard of 'Fair Use'?

Quote from: Wikipedia
Fair use, a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work, is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

BTW, did you see this video by Br. Nathanael?

Mt Athos Prophecies On ‘666′ (http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=636)

I guess you'll say that Elder Paisios was insane & needed an exorcism also will you?

Also, Michał Kalina stated that Br. Nathanael is not a monk.

Here from Br. Nathanael:

Quote
I started my monastic “communal” career in a Greek Orthodox Monastery at the age of 46 in 1996 until 2005 when Christ called me into a public ministry.

But I still maintain a monastic life complete with a prayer rule as assigned to me by my Superiors which includes fasting, a one-meal-a-day Vegan diet, 2 hours of the Jesus Prayer daily, prostrations and Spiritual reading (no Television viewing.)

I believe he refers to himself now as "a monk in the world".

He's a member of the ROCOR.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 05, 2011, 09:11:52 PM
What choir is she singing to? Let me guess - the ever antisemitic Christians right?

Umm..yeah.. got me..pretty much

Have you ever considered that what you call antisemitism might actually be a reaction to rampant Jewish antigentilism and anti-Christianity? Seems like you haven't. Perhaps you should.

I think not.

Remember, getting an exorcism is always is an option for you..Just a friendly suggestion.  Consider it

Because if you don't think the Jews are better than all other races you are the devil...  ::)

No..when you have a Demon influencing you, you should condiser getting rid of it.

Also, when your World View starts to resemble that of the Ku Lux Klan it  may be time to re-evaluate......IMHO
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 05, 2011, 09:26:45 PM
What choir is she singing to? Let me guess - the ever antisemitic Christians right?

Umm..yeah.. got me..pretty much

What is and has been, in your opinion the root cause of the Christian "antisemitism" which you perceive?

Quote

Have you ever considered that what you call antisemitism might actually be a reaction to rampant Jewish antigentilism and anti-Christianity? Seems like you haven't. Perhaps you should.

I think not.

Remember, getting an exorcism is always is an option for you..Just a friendly suggestion.  Consider it

That's the standard Jewish type reply when the tables are turned: insinuations of insanity and demonic possession. I thought you were a Christian though. Why do you defend the wrongs of the Judaists while accusing your fellow Christians?

Do you deny that many, many Jews (and certainly their Talmudic teachings) are in fact antigentile & especially anti-Jesus and anti-Christian?

Maybe that's why those who you have deemed "Gentiles scare" you.

You said you were scared of Clowns.

Nah, you're getting me confused with Primuspilus.

Quote
Ever been spit on by one?

No. But Christians are regularly spit upon by Jews in the Holy Land.

Quote
Denied public accommodation?

Blacks (and especially non-Jews) are second class citizens in the Jewish state.

Israel Accused of Discrimination (http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=israel+accused+of+discrimination&oq=israel+accused+of+discrimination&aq=f&aqi=g-v1&aql=undefined&gs_sm=si&gs_upl=3426l3426l0l1l1l0l0l0l0l119l119l0.1l1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=51229a803ffeec22&biw=1138&bih=501)

Quote
Ever had a Clown beat you up?

Probably not.
  

No. But even if I had - it wouldn't make me "scared" of them.

People of all stripes get beat-up every day.

Are you telling us that you were beat up for no other reason than the fact that you were a Jew?

Christians have been killed by Jews in the Jewish state only because they were Christian. Does this mean all Christians are now  justified in being "scared" of all Israeli Jews?

I just took some time and looked at "Brother Nathanial's" web page and viewed a couple of his video's.

Oh yeah.. He's sane.

There you go with accusations of insanity. I guess he needs an exorcism too huh? And Xenia1918 now needs one as well, right?

Quote
Btw. The first Video was called "My Life as an Orthodox Monk".. He copped ( American Slang for Stole) clips from the recent 60 minutes documentary about Mt. Athos... I wonder why he didn't have pix of his own place? I wonder if CBS gave him permission to use their clips...   I'm thinking not.

Yes, how dare Br. Nathanael not have video documentation of himself in a monastery from ten years ago?

As for the clips from 60 Minutes - ever heard of 'Fair Use'?

Quote from: Wikipedia
Fair use, a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work, is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

BTW, did you see this video by Br. Nathanael?

Mt Athos Prophecies On ‘666′ (http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=636)

I guess you'll say that Elder Paisios was insane & needed an exorcism also will you?

Also, Michał Kalina stated that Br. Nathanael is not a monk.

Here from Br. Nathanael:

Quote
I started my monastic “communal” career in a Greek Orthodox Monastery at the age of 46 in 1996 until 2005 when Christ called me into a public ministry.

But I still maintain a monastic life complete with a prayer rule as assigned to me by my Superiors which includes fasting, a one-meal-a-day Vegan diet, 2 hours of the Jesus Prayer daily, prostrations and Spiritual reading (no Television viewing.)

I believe he refers to himself now as "a monk in the world".

He's a member of the ROCOR.

Oh sorry, I'm not going to do this little dance with you...As I have said to other people who have your view point, your ideas are so self evidently false that to debate them in any detail is to dignify  them far beyond their value..

Anyone who can look at the trash this Brother Nathanial spews out and think he's on the right track needs to visit a mental health professional.

I wrote to the CBS legal department and let them know this Antisemitic Nut had stolen their 60 Minutes clips...Don't thank me

I was with the Rocor Metropolitan just a couple of weeks ago and I am able to correspond with him and the Bishop will be visiting soon too. I will make it my business to see what they can do about him. I seriously doubt he is in good standing in Rocor... But we shall see.

Thanks for putting me on to him.. I intend to be tenacious.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 05, 2011, 09:27:56 PM
Its true that Jews often use the "mental illness" charge, esp. when a Jew converts to Christianity. I've noticed that quite a bit. The reason for this is because in modern times, most Jews cannot understand why another Jew would become a Christian. In the "old days", they often did it to better their employment situation, their standing in (European) society, to avoid persecution, and so forth.

But in modern times, when Jews are not persecuted as they were in times past, a Jew cannot understand why another Jew would do it, if (as they see it) he has nothing monetary to gain by it. Hence, the "mental illness" charge. They simply cannot for a moment think that perhaps a Jew has decided---in sincerity--to accept Christ.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 05, 2011, 09:49:23 PM
Its true that Jews often use the "mental illness" charge, esp. when a Jew converts to Christianity. I've noticed that quite a bit. The reason for this is because in modern times, most Jews cannot understand why another Jew would become a Christian. In the "old days", they often did it to better their employment situation, their standing in (European) society, to avoid persecution, and so forth.

But in modern times, when Jews are not persecuted as they were in times past, a Jew cannot understand why another Jew would do it, if (as they see it) he has nothing monetary to gain by it. Hence, the "mental illness" charge. They simply cannot for a moment think that perhaps a Jew has decided---in sincerity--to accept Christ.

Hello...Earth to Xenia.

I'm a Jew who converted to Christianity...Try to keep up dear.

If you have been getting lots of suggestions to get some help, your conversion may not be the only issue.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 05, 2011, 10:42:26 PM
What choir is she singing to? Let me guess - the ever antisemitic Christians right?

Umm..yeah.. got me..pretty much

What is and has been, in your opinion the root cause of the Christian "antisemitism" which you perceive?

Quote

Have you ever considered that what you call antisemitism might actually be a reaction to rampant Jewish antigentilism and anti-Christianity? Seems like you haven't. Perhaps you should.

I think not.

Remember, getting an exorcism is always is an option for you..Just a friendly suggestion.  Consider it

That's the standard Jewish type reply when the tables are turned: insinuations of insanity and demonic possession. I thought you were a Christian though. Why do you defend the wrongs of the Judaists while accusing your fellow Christians?

Do you deny that many, many Jews (and certainly their Talmudic teachings) are in fact antigentile & especially anti-Jesus and anti-Christian?

Maybe that's why those who you have deemed "Gentiles scare" you.

You said you were scared of Clowns.

Nah, you're getting me confused with Primuspilus.

Quote
Ever been spit on by one?

No. But Christians are regularly spit upon by Jews in the Holy Land.

Quote
Denied public accommodation?

Blacks (and especially non-Jews) are second class citizens in the Jewish state.

Israel Accused of Discrimination (http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=israel+accused+of+discrimination&oq=israel+accused+of+discrimination&aq=f&aqi=g-v1&aql=undefined&gs_sm=si&gs_upl=3426l3426l0l1l1l0l0l0l0l119l119l0.1l1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=51229a803ffeec22&biw=1138&bih=501)

Quote
Ever had a Clown beat you up?

Probably not.
  

No. But even if I had - it wouldn't make me "scared" of them.

People of all stripes get beat-up every day.

Are you telling us that you were beat up for no other reason than the fact that you were a Jew?

Christians have been killed by Jews in the Jewish state only because they were Christian. Does this mean all Christians are now  justified in being "scared" of all Israeli Jews?

I just took some time and looked at "Brother Nathanial's" web page and viewed a couple of his video's.

Oh yeah.. He's sane.

There you go with accusations of insanity. I guess he needs an exorcism too huh? And Xenia1918 now needs one as well, right?

Quote
Btw. The first Video was called "My Life as an Orthodox Monk".. He copped ( American Slang for Stole) clips from the recent 60 minutes documentary about Mt. Athos... I wonder why he didn't have pix of his own place? I wonder if CBS gave him permission to use their clips...   I'm thinking not.

Yes, how dare Br. Nathanael not have video documentation of himself in a monastery from ten years ago?

As for the clips from 60 Minutes - ever heard of 'Fair Use'?

Quote from: Wikipedia
Fair use, a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work, is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

BTW, did you see this video by Br. Nathanael?

Mt Athos Prophecies On ‘666′ (http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=636)

I guess you'll say that Elder Paisios was insane & needed an exorcism also will you?

Also, Michał Kalina stated that Br. Nathanael is not a monk.

Here from Br. Nathanael:

Quote
I started my monastic “communal” career in a Greek Orthodox Monastery at the age of 46 in 1996 until 2005 when Christ called me into a public ministry.

But I still maintain a monastic life complete with a prayer rule as assigned to me by my Superiors which includes fasting, a one-meal-a-day Vegan diet, 2 hours of the Jesus Prayer daily, prostrations and Spiritual reading (no Television viewing.)

I believe he refers to himself now as "a monk in the world".

He's a member of the ROCOR.

Oh sorry, I'm not going to do this little dance with you...As I have said to other people who have your view point, your ideas are so self evidently false that to debate them in any detail is to dignify  them far beyond their value..

Anyone who can look at the trash this Brother Nathanial spews out and think he's on the right track needs to visit a mental health professional.

I wrote to the CBS legal department and let them know this Antisemitic Nut had stolen their 60 Minutes clips...Don't thank me

I was with the Rocor Metropolitan just a couple of weeks ago and I am able to correspond with him and the Bishop will be visiting soon too. I will make it my business to see what they can do about him. I seriously doubt he is in good standing in Rocor... But we shall see.

Thanks for putting me on to him.. I intend to be tenacious.

Your refusal to "dance" is typical and very telling. Why start a discussion you don't intend to finish? IOW - you lose.

Didn't you learn in grade school that no one (not even the teachers) likes a tattletale?

And what was it about the "Fair Use" doctrine of exception that you didn't understand?

Anyhow, good luck with your newfound "mission". Do keep us updated on your progress won't you?

I'll not be holding my breath.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 05, 2011, 10:48:06 PM
Its true that Jews often use the "mental illness" charge, esp. when a Jew converts to Christianity. I've noticed that quite a bit. The reason for this is because in modern times, most Jews cannot understand why another Jew would become a Christian. In the "old days", they often did it to better their employment situation, their standing in (European) society, to avoid persecution, and so forth.

But in modern times, when Jews are not persecuted as they were in times past, a Jew cannot understand why another Jew would do it, if (as they see it) he has nothing monetary to gain by it. Hence, the "mental illness" charge. They simply cannot for a moment think that perhaps a Jew has decided---in sincerity--to accept Christ.

Hello...Earth to Xenia.

I'm a Jew who converted to Christianity...Try to keep up dear.

If you have been getting lots of suggestions to get some help, your conversion may not be the only issue.
Actually, no one has suggested I have mental issues, but then, I have not yet told anyone I know who is Jewish that I am converting to Orthodoxy. I'm sure if I told them, they would start making that accusation. Its very common when Jews seek to become Christians. Either that, or they claim the person in question "was Jewishly uneducated anyway" (something they cannot say about me.)

Incidentally, are you certain you have become a Christian? Your attitude to me is very much like that of a secular Jew....snide, cocky and sarcastic. Why is that? I don't appreciate your "earth to Xenia" attitude, or your "do try to keep up, dear" comments.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 06, 2011, 11:55:58 AM
What choir is she singing to? Let me guess - the ever antisemitic Christians right?

Umm..yeah.. got me..pretty much

What is and has been, in your opinion the root cause of the Christian "antisemitism" which you perceive?

Quote

Have you ever considered that what you call antisemitism might actually be a reaction to rampant Jewish antigentilism and anti-Christianity? Seems like you haven't. Perhaps you should.

I think not.

Remember, getting an exorcism is always is an option for you..Just a friendly suggestion.  Consider it

That's the standard Jewish type reply when the tables are turned: insinuations of insanity and demonic possession. I thought you were a Christian though. Why do you defend the wrongs of the Judaists while accusing your fellow Christians?

Do you deny that many, many Jews (and certainly their Talmudic teachings) are in fact antigentile & especially anti-Jesus and anti-Christian?

Maybe that's why those who you have deemed "Gentiles scare" you.

You said you were scared of Clowns.

Nah, you're getting me confused with Primuspilus.

Quote
Ever been spit on by one?

No. But Christians are regularly spit upon by Jews in the Holy Land.

Quote
Denied public accommodation?

Blacks (and especially non-Jews) are second class citizens in the Jewish state.

Israel Accused of Discrimination (http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=israel+accused+of+discrimination&oq=israel+accused+of+discrimination&aq=f&aqi=g-v1&aql=undefined&gs_sm=si&gs_upl=3426l3426l0l1l1l0l0l0l0l119l119l0.1l1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=51229a803ffeec22&biw=1138&bih=501)

Quote
Ever had a Clown beat you up?

Probably not.
  

No. But even if I had - it wouldn't make me "scared" of them.

People of all stripes get beat-up every day.

Are you telling us that you were beat up for no other reason than the fact that you were a Jew?

Christians have been killed by Jews in the Jewish state only because they were Christian. Does this mean all Christians are now  justified in being "scared" of all Israeli Jews?

I just took some time and looked at "Brother Nathanial's" web page and viewed a couple of his video's.

Oh yeah.. He's sane.

There you go with accusations of insanity. I guess he needs an exorcism too huh? And Xenia1918 now needs one as well, right?

Quote
Btw. The first Video was called "My Life as an Orthodox Monk".. He copped ( American Slang for Stole) clips from the recent 60 minutes documentary about Mt. Athos... I wonder why he didn't have pix of his own place? I wonder if CBS gave him permission to use their clips...   I'm thinking not.

Yes, how dare Br. Nathanael not have video documentation of himself in a monastery from ten years ago?

As for the clips from 60 Minutes - ever heard of 'Fair Use'?

Quote from: Wikipedia
Fair use, a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work, is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

BTW, did you see this video by Br. Nathanael?

Mt Athos Prophecies On ‘666′ (http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=636)

I guess you'll say that Elder Paisios was insane & needed an exorcism also will you?

Also, Michał Kalina stated that Br. Nathanael is not a monk.

Here from Br. Nathanael:

Quote
I started my monastic “communal” career in a Greek Orthodox Monastery at the age of 46 in 1996 until 2005 when Christ called me into a public ministry.

But I still maintain a monastic life complete with a prayer rule as assigned to me by my Superiors which includes fasting, a one-meal-a-day Vegan diet, 2 hours of the Jesus Prayer daily, prostrations and Spiritual reading (no Television viewing.)

I believe he refers to himself now as "a monk in the world".

He's a member of the ROCOR.

Oh sorry, I'm not going to do this little dance with you...As I have said to other people who have your view point, your ideas are so self evidently false that to debate them in any detail is to dignify  them far beyond their value..

Anyone who can look at the trash this Brother Nathanial spews out and think he's on the right track needs to visit a mental health professional.

I wrote to the CBS legal department and let them know this Antisemitic Nut had stolen their 60 Minutes clips...Don't thank me

I was with the Rocor Metropolitan just a couple of weeks ago and I am able to correspond with him and the Bishop will be visiting soon too. I will make it my business to see what they can do about him. I seriously doubt he is in good standing in Rocor... But we shall see.

Thanks for putting me on to him.. I intend to be tenacious.

Your refusal to "dance" is typical and very telling. Why start a discussion you don't intend to finish? IOW - you lose.

Didn't you learn in grade school that no one (not even the teachers) likes a tattletale?

And what was it about the "Fair Use" doctrine of exception that you didn't understand?

Anyhow, good luck with your newfound "mission". Do keep us updated on your progress won't you?

I'll not be holding my breath.

You're new here. I've challenge bigots a dozen times on this board.They come and go.. Rest assured I can hold my own.. If my mood changes I'll let you know. Too much anger involved. Feel free to beleive whatever crack-pot theory floats your boat.

 I maintain that such extremely bigoted views dont get a seat at the table. Your idea;s are beyond the pale and need to simply be waived off as unhealthy and not serious. 

I will let let you know what I find out about that guy. I wonder what constitutes "Membership" in Rocor. You already admitted he doesn't really belong to a Monastery... Duh.  What Abbot would put up with such vileness? Does he belong to a Parish? Does he Tithe Rocor ?.. How does he belong to Rocor?

I bet they have never heard of him.  He is an object of Pity IMHO..Prayers for him.

Yes..Please declare yourself the winner... I default.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 06, 2011, 12:03:05 PM
Its true that Jews often use the "mental illness" charge, esp. when a Jew converts to Christianity. I've noticed that quite a bit. The reason for this is because in modern times, most Jews cannot understand why another Jew would become a Christian. In the "old days", they often did it to better their employment situation, their standing in (European) society, to avoid persecution, and so forth.

But in modern times, when Jews are not persecuted as they were in times past, a Jew cannot understand why another Jew would do it, if (as they see it) he has nothing monetary to gain by it. Hence, the "mental illness" charge. They simply cannot for a moment think that perhaps a Jew has decided---in sincerity--to accept Christ.

Hello...Earth to Xenia.

I'm a Jew who converted to Christianity...Try to keep up dear.

If you have been getting lots of suggestions to get some help, your conversion may not be the only issue.
Actually, no one has suggested I have mental issues, but then, I have not yet told anyone I know who is Jewish that I am converting to Orthodoxy. I'm sure if I told them, they would start making that accusation. Its very common when Jews seek to become Christians. Either that, or they claim the person in question "was Jewishly uneducated anyway" (something they cannot say about me.)

Incidentally, are you certain you have become a Christian? Your attitude to me is very much like that of a secular Jew....snide, cocky and sarcastic. Why is that? I don't appreciate your "earth to Xenia" attitude, or your "do try to keep up, dear" comments.

So let me try to understand. You are not actually an Orthodox Christian. Okay, good luck with that. So no one has actually accused you of being Crazy for converting because you have not really converted yet.. Your just speculating on the reaction.. I see.

Yes, I am baptized and alter serve and I am the Warden of my Parish.

Yes, the snide, snarky stuff is definitely borne of my personal style. I also have a low tolerance for fools...
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 06, 2011, 12:53:43 PM
Actually, no one has suggested I have mental issues, but then, I have not yet told anyone I know who is Jewish that I am converting to Orthodoxy. I'm sure if I told them, they would start making that accusation.

For years now on this board and others a range of Orthodox without any link to Judaism have suggested that Brother Nathanael is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. In fact, I believe Brother Nathanael was banned here too by our trusty moderators. Stop looking for a Jewish conspiracy everywhere.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 06, 2011, 01:10:10 PM
What choir is she singing to? Let me guess - the ever antisemitic Christians right?

Umm..yeah.. got me..pretty much

Have you ever considered that what you call antisemitism might actually be a reaction to rampant Jewish antigentilism and anti-Christianity? Seems like you haven't. Perhaps you should.

I think not.

Remember, getting an exorcism is always is an option for you..Just a friendly suggestion.  Consider it

Because if you don't think the Jews are better than all other races you are the devil...  ::)

No..when you have a Demon influencing you, you should condiser getting rid of it.

Also, when your World View starts to resemble that of the Ku Lux Klan it  may be time to re-evaluate......IMHO

You're right! I forgot about that faulty genes gentiles have that make them do bad things. Jewish people would never ever do bad things. So if we critique any group of Jews (not for their religion or race, but for their actions) then we "hate" Jews? Because that is what you accuse people of.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 06, 2011, 02:22:25 PM
What choir is she singing to? Let me guess - the ever antisemitic Christians right?

Umm..yeah.. got me..pretty much

Have you ever considered that what you call antisemitism might actually be a reaction to rampant Jewish antigentilism and anti-Christianity? Seems like you haven't. Perhaps you should.

I think not.

Remember, getting an exorcism is always is an option for you..Just a friendly suggestion.  Consider it

Because if you don't think the Jews are better than all other races you are the devil...  ::)

No..when you have a Demon influencing you, you should condiser getting rid of it.

Also, when your World View starts to resemble that of the Ku Lux Klan it  may be time to re-evaluate......IMHO

You're right! I forgot about that faulty genes gentiles have that make them do bad things. Jewish people would never ever do bad things. So if we critique any group of Jews (not for their religion or race, but for their actions) then we "hate" Jews? Because that is what you accuse people of.

Welcome back....You're going to like playing with the new kids....Try not to ramble
 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 06, 2011, 03:00:12 PM
I'm not a Jew and I'm not a fan of Zionism either but Marc's characterization of "Br. Nathanael" seems spot on to me.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Cognomen on July 06, 2011, 04:14:52 PM
^ Seconded.

Let's hypothetically assume that Br. Nathanael's assertions are correct (which very few authorities on these subjects believe).  Does anyone think he's actually presenting his case in a responsible, persuasive way?  Instead, I'm inclined to believe that he's doing a fine job of embarrassing Orthodox Christianity.

He may be a great person; I don't know, but I cringe seeing him (or anyone really) present his "case" in that way.  He's not a monk, he should not be wearing monastic clothing and claiming to be one.  He comes off to most as a caricature of a loony, "Orthodox," conspiracy oriented oddball. 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 06, 2011, 04:20:02 PM
Its true that Jews often use the "mental illness" charge, esp. when a Jew converts to Christianity. I've noticed that quite a bit. The reason for this is because in modern times, most Jews cannot understand why another Jew would become a Christian. In the "old days", they often did it to better their employment situation, their standing in (European) society, to avoid persecution, and so forth.

But in modern times, when Jews are not persecuted as they were in times past, a Jew cannot understand why another Jew would do it, if (as they see it) he has nothing monetary to gain by it. Hence, the "mental illness" charge. They simply cannot for a moment think that perhaps a Jew has decided---in sincerity--to accept Christ.

Hello...Earth to Xenia.

I'm a Jew who converted to Christianity...Try to keep up dear.

If you have been getting lots of suggestions to get some help, your conversion may not be the only issue.
Actually, no one has suggested I have mental issues, but then, I have not yet told anyone I know who is Jewish that I am converting to Orthodoxy. I'm sure if I told them, they would start making that accusation. Its very common when Jews seek to become Christians. Either that, or they claim the person in question "was Jewishly uneducated anyway" (something they cannot say about me.)

Incidentally, are you certain you have become a Christian? Your attitude to me is very much like that of a secular Jew....snide, cocky and sarcastic. Why is that? I don't appreciate your "earth to Xenia" attitude, or your "do try to keep up, dear" comments.

So let me try to understand. You are not actually an Orthodox Christian. Okay, good luck with that. So no one has actually accused you of being Crazy for converting because you have not really converted yet.. Your just speculating on the reaction.. I see.

Yes, I am baptized and alter serve and I am the Warden of my Parish.

Yes, the snide, snarky stuff is definitely borne of my personal style. I also have a low tolerance for fools...

I am a believing Christian (once baptized Roman Catholic), and will be an Orthodox Christian in two weeks after chrismation.

You may be baptized but you don't act like a Christian. I have known true Christians and one trait that is common in those I know is humility. Oh, and they also don't personally insult people either.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 06, 2011, 04:22:23 PM
^ Seconded.

Let's hypothetically assume that Br. Nathanael's assertions are correct (which very few authorities on these subjects believe).  Does anyone think he's actually presenting his case in a responsible, persuasive way?  Instead, I'm inclined to believe that he's doing a fine job of embarrassing Orthodox Christianity.

He may be a great person; I don't know, but I cringe seeing him (or anyone really) present his "case" in that way.  He's not a monk, he should not be wearing monastic clothing and claiming to be one.  He comes off to most as a caricature of a loony, "Orthodox," conspiracy oriented oddball. 

My problem with Bro. Nathanael is not so much what he says, but how he presents it. Unfortunately he makes Orthodox Christians look like crackpots. There is a Japanese Orthodox guy online who also has a blog (I forget his name offhand) who is just as bad.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 06, 2011, 05:29:57 PM
Brother Nathanael is what the Church calls a fool-for-Christ or a Holy Fool.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ

"One form of the ascetic Christian life is called foolishness for the sake of Christ. The fool-for-Christ set for himself the task of battling within himself the root of all sin, pride. In order to accomplish this he took on an unusual style of life, appearing as someone bereft of his mental faculties, thus bringing upon himself the ridicule of others. In addition he exposed the evil in the world through metaphorical and symbolic words and actions. He took this ascetic endeavor upon himself in order to humble himself and to also more effectively influence others, since most people respond to the usual ordinary sermon with indifference. The spiritual feat of foolishness for Christ was especially widespread in Russia. --(Excerpted from The Law of God, Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville, NY: 1993)"
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 06, 2011, 05:53:18 PM
Brother Nathanael is what the Church calls a fool-for-Christ or a Holy Fool.

That's a pathetically lame way of trying to excuse his behavior. His acts have very little to do with the old Russian tradition (which is about as defunct as the order of diaconesses).
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 06, 2011, 06:25:30 PM
Brother Nathanael is what the Church calls a fool-for-Christ or a Holy Fool.

That's a pathetically lame way of trying to excuse his behavior. His acts have very little to do with the old Russian tradition (which is about as defunct as the order of diaconesses).
How in the world is it "defunct"? It's not even a position or office within the Church. Such things depend on the character of the individual and his determination to follow Christ in a seemingly bizarre manner.

Have you considered the possibility that fools-for-Christ are present in the modern Church, but you fail to recognize them (as did those who scoffed and mocked the Holy Fools throughout ages past)?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 06, 2011, 06:28:29 PM
Brother Nathanael is what the Church calls a fool-for-Christ or a Holy Fool.

That's a pathetically lame way of trying to excuse his behavior. His acts have very little to do with the old Russian tradition (which is about as defunct as the order of diaconesses).
How in the world is it "defunct"? It's not even a position or office within the Church. Such things depend on the character of the individual and his determination to follow Christ in a seemingly bizarre manner.

Have you considered the possibility that fools-for-Christ are present in the modern Church, but you fail to recognize them (as did those who scoffed and mocked the Holy Fools throughout ages past)?

Well, if he is serving as a Fool for Christ, he seems to be doing a good job of it.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 06, 2011, 06:31:25 PM
How in the world is it "defunct"?

Even in conservative Russian circles the holy fool is viewed as something from at least three centuries ago. The archetype may continue to appear in literature or film, but it is not considered part of contemporary Orthodoxy. Someone trying to revive it will probably have some problems with his bishop.

Just because someone expresses what he claims are Orthodox beliefs and does so in a seemingly irrational way does not make him a holy fool. Some people are not just seemingly mad, but truly mad.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 06, 2011, 06:52:19 PM
Even in conservative Russian circles the holy fool is viewed as something from at least three centuries ago.
Firstly, what do you means by conservative Russian circles? Monasteries? scholars? priests?

Secondly, holy fools are much older than Russia.

Thirdly, check out the list conveniently provided on Orthodoxwiki : http://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ#List_of_Holy_Fools-for-Christ You will find quite a few are more recent than "three centuries ago".

Just because someone expresses what he claims are Orthodox beliefs and does so in a seemingly irrational way does not make him a holy fool. Some people are not just seemingly mad, but truly mad.
True, so let us judge the orthodoxy of Br. Nathanael's words. He continually exposes and denounces the plans and actions of Jewry worldwide. This is by no means specific to him. Multitudes of Athonite monks have spoke in similar ways (Elder Paisios, Elder Joseph of Vatopedi, etc.). I would say that Orthodox monks as a whole are quite famous for answering the Jewish question.

Much of what Br. Nathanael says is based off of the account provided in the Protocols of Zion and its application in our day and age. The book was published by a devout Orthodox layman who was given a blessing to do so by a saint (St. John Kronstadt).

Br. Nathanael also continually calls the Jewish people to repentance and conversion - to abandon their anti-Christ religion and dwell in the fullness of truth - this is the essential function of the Holy Fool (calling all to greater repentance). I challenge anyone to show an instance where Br. Nathanael has spoken contrary to Orthodoxy.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 06, 2011, 08:18:33 PM
He continually exposes and denounces the plans and actions of Jewry worldwide. This is by no means specific to him. Multitudes of Athonite monks have spoke in similar ways (Elder Paisios, Elder Joseph of Vatopedi, etc.).

Statements by Elder Pasios that villify Jews in general, as Xenia and Brother Nathanael often do, are 1) hard to authenticate, and 2) would not automatically be right simply because they were uttered by an Athonite elder.

Meanwhile, bishops under whose authority I have been, and with whom you are in communion, have spoken against such conspiracy thinking. Now, if you want to find some True Genuine Old Calendarist 100% Authentic Orthodox Church just to be free from the Jewish conspiracy you see everywhere, that's your choice.

Quote
Much of what Br. Nathanael says is based off of the account provided in the Protocols of Zion and its application in our day and age. The book was published by a devout Orthodox layman who was given a blessing to do so by a saint (St. John Kronstadt).

Funny how just when Saint Iaint was muted after long complaints, someone steps up to take his place. Have you noticed how the clergy on this board doesn't ever lend support to such hyperbolic claims?

Quote
I challenge anyone to show an instance where Br. Nathanael has spoken contrary to Orthodoxy.

Soliciting donations for a religious ministry without the permission of one's bishop is certainly contrary to Orthodoxy. We've yet to see proof of Br. Nathanael's good standing with his bishop.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 06, 2011, 09:23:44 PM
Speaking as someone who was raised an Orthodox Jew (and not a Reform Jew, as Brother Nathanael was), I think I know a bit more about the inner workings of authentic ("Orthodox") Judaism. I'm not out to vilify Jews; my issue is not with JEWS but with JUDAISM. My own children were taught in Orthodox Jewish Hebrew school that "Love your neighbor as yourself" means only other Jews; my youngest came home very upset about that, because she has many Gentile family members, including her own father. Basically, she interpreted that to mean they don't expect her to treat her own father with kindness.

In the 1980s when I began doing family genealogy, I asked my mother (a convert to Orthodox Judaism) for the family records. One of the things she gave me was her ketubah (Jewish marriage certificate). I noticed on it that the word "ha'betulah" (the virgin) before her name was crossed off. I translated the certificate as best I could (it was in Aramaic), and then called an Orthodox rabbi to ask why "ha'betulah" was crossed out.

He asked me if my mother was a convert to Judaism, and I replied in the affirmative. He then said (and I will never forget these words), "When a Gentile woman converts to Orthodox Judaism, it is assumed she was not a virgin because in ancient times, Gentile women often engaged in immoral sexual practices as part of their pagan religions".

He basically said they assume all Gentile women are whores. My mother, who grew up as a very strict Traditional Roman Catholic before Vatican II, in a time when women guarded their virginity, they assumed was a whore. I knew many Jewish girls when I was growing up who were very sexually immoral, yet MY mother gets assumed to be a whore, simply because she was born a Gentile? Later om, when I read in the Talmud Bavli (Babylonian Talmud) that they called the Holy Theotokos a hairdresser and a whore (God forbid!), I saw they seem to have a proclivity for doing this, making incorrect assumptions about women who are actually sexually pure.

These are just some of the issues I have with JUDAISM (not Jews).
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 06, 2011, 09:29:24 PM
How many times are you going to post those anecdotes, Xenia?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 06, 2011, 09:31:58 PM
How many times are you going to post those anecdotes, Xenia?

Why does it bother you? Why not ask a reputable Orthodox rabbi if what I said is correct? Maybe he will confirm it.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 06, 2011, 09:38:07 PM
Why does it bother you?

Because it's a blatant attempt to deflect criticism of your points and tone by ascribing you some supposed authority based on the mere fact you were born Jewish (if you in fact were).

Furthermore, some deplorable practices of a small portion of Jews does not lend support to the idea of a Jewish conspiracy to control the world, which is what Br. Nathanael claims.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 06, 2011, 09:41:35 PM
Why does it bother you?

Because it's a blatant attempt to deflect criticism of your points and tone by ascribing you some supposed authority based on the mere fact you were born Jewish (if you in fact were).

Why would you doubt I was born Jewish? If you told me you were raised an Orthodox Christian, I wouldn't doubt it.

And what I'm saying is, ask a competent Orthodox rabbi if you doubt what I say is true. Go ahead, ask one. And while you're at it, ask him what mevushal means on a bottle of kosher wine or grape juice. Ask him to explain in detail why a Gentile at a Jewish religious meal (such as a Pesach Seder or Shabbat dinner) is not permitted to be the first to break the seal on a bottle fo kosher wine or grape juice.

Go ahead, ask.

As for these being the practices of a 'small group' of Jews, I am referring to the universal beliefs and practices of Torah Judaism, often incorrectly labeled "Orthodox" Judaism. Until about 200 years ago, it was the only form of Judaism available.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 06, 2011, 09:51:07 PM
Ask him to explain in detail why a Gentile at a Jewish religious meal (such as a Pesach Seder or Shabbat dinner) is not permitted to be the first to break the seal on a bottle fo kosher wine or grape juice.

If those kind of ritual purity laws are proof that there's a conspiracy out to get us, upper-caste Hindus will beat both the Christians and the Jews. There's certainly a lot more of them to worry about than Orthodox Jews.

Quote
As for these being the practices of a 'small group' of Jews, I am referring to the universal beliefs and practices of Torah Judaism, often incorrectly labeled "Orthodox" Judaism. Until about 200 years ago, it was the only form of Judaism available.

It was the only form of Judaism available 200 years ago, but it isn't now. The vast majority of Jews around the world are now secular and consider Judaism only an ethnic affiliation. Even in Israel, heartland of "Zionism", 80% of the population isn't religious, and among young people you'll find more interest in Eastern philosophy -- Abrahamic religion with its "magical sky fairy" is perceived as something very passe.

When the practices you mention are perpetuated now by a demonstrably small group of people identifying as Jews, vilifying "the Jews" is unreasonable.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 06, 2011, 10:42:16 PM
Ask him to explain in detail why a Gentile at a Jewish religious meal (such as a Pesach Seder or Shabbat dinner) is not permitted to be the first to break the seal on a bottle fo kosher wine or grape juice.

If those kind of ritual purity laws are proof that there's a conspiracy out to get us, upper-caste Hindus will beat both the Christians and the Jews. There's certainly a lot more of them to worry about than Orthodox Jews.

Quote
As for these being the practices of a 'small group' of Jews, I am referring to the universal beliefs and practices of Torah Judaism, often incorrectly labeled "Orthodox" Judaism. Until about 200 years ago, it was the only form of Judaism available.

It was the only form of Judaism available 200 years ago, but it isn't now. The vast majority of Jews around the world are now secular and consider Judaism only an ethnic affiliation. Even in Israel, heartland of "Zionism", 80% of the population isn't religious, and among young people you'll find more interest in Eastern philosophy -- Abrahamic religion with its "magical sky fairy" is perceived as something very passe.

When the practices you mention are perpetuated now by a demonstrably small group of people identifying as Jews, vilifying "the Jews" is unreasonable.

As I said previously, my problem is not "Jews", it is Judaism. The religion.

And I never said there is a Jewish conspiracy, you implied I believe that.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 06, 2011, 10:53:24 PM
As I said previously, my problem is not "Jews", it is Judaism. The religion.

And I never said there is a Jewish conspiracy, you implied I believe that.

Really?

My problem with Bro. Nathanael is not so much what he says, but how he presents it.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 06, 2011, 10:58:48 PM
As I said previously, my problem is not "Jews", it is Judaism. The religion.

And I never said there is a Jewish conspiracy, you implied I believe that.

Really?

My problem with Bro. Nathanael is not so much what he says, but how he presents it.

I'm sorry I didn't make my position clear. I don't know if there is a "Jewish conspiracy" or not; what I was saying was that much of what he says about Judaism seems factual based on what I learned of the religion while growing up.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 07, 2011, 10:51:54 AM
As I said previously, my problem is not "Jews", it is Judaism. The religion.

And I never said there is a Jewish conspiracy, you implied I believe that.

Really?

My problem with Bro. Nathanael is not so much what he says, but how he presents it.

I'm sorry I didn't make my position clear. I don't know if there is a "Jewish conspiracy" or not; what I was saying was that much of what he says about Judaism seems factual based on what I learned of the religion while growing up.

Really..?

I've been watching his videos..They seem entirely about a Global Jewish Conspiracy with few exceptions..The usual Nut Job stuff about Banking and Jewish Media Blah blah blah...  All conspiracy stuff which you said rang true with you.


Perhaps you should step away from all this and take a breath.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 07, 2011, 10:52:22 AM
^ Seconded.

Let's hypothetically assume that Br. Nathanael's assertions are correct (which very few authorities on these subjects believe).  Does anyone think he's actually presenting his case in a responsible, persuasive way?  Instead, I'm inclined to believe that he's doing a fine job of embarrassing Orthodox Christianity.

He may be a great person; I don't know, but I cringe seeing him (or anyone really) present his "case" in that way.  He's not a monk, he should not be wearing monastic clothing and claiming to be one.  He comes off to most as a caricature of a loony, "Orthodox," conspiracy oriented oddball. 

So if the man doesn't agree with the mainstream ideas the media shoves down our throats he's "loony"? Wow, that's exactly what Al CIAda would say!  ::)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 07, 2011, 10:52:23 AM
Its true that Jews often use the "mental illness" charge, esp. when a Jew converts to Christianity. I've noticed that quite a bit. The reason for this is because in modern times, most Jews cannot understand why another Jew would become a Christian. In the "old days", they often did it to better their employment situation, their standing in (European) society, to avoid persecution, and so forth.

But in modern times, when Jews are not persecuted as they were in times past, a Jew cannot understand why another Jew would do it, if (as they see it) he has nothing monetary to gain by it. Hence, the "mental illness" charge. They simply cannot for a moment think that perhaps a Jew has decided---in sincerity--to accept Christ.

Hello...Earth to Xenia.

I'm a Jew who converted to Christianity...Try to keep up dear.

If you have been getting lots of suggestions to get some help, your conversion may not be the only issue.
Actually, no one has suggested I have mental issues, but then, I have not yet told anyone I know who is Jewish that I am converting to Orthodoxy. I'm sure if I told them, they would start making that accusation. Its very common when Jews seek to become Christians. Either that, or they claim the person in question "was Jewishly uneducated anyway" (something they cannot say about me.)

Incidentally, are you certain you have become a Christian? Your attitude to me is very much like that of a secular Jew....snide, cocky and sarcastic. Why is that? I don't appreciate your "earth to Xenia" attitude, or your "do try to keep up, dear" comments.

So let me try to understand. You are not actually an Orthodox Christian. Okay, good luck with that. So no one has actually accused you of being Crazy for converting because you have not really converted yet.. Your just speculating on the reaction.. I see.

Yes, I am baptized and alter serve and I am the Warden of my Parish.

Yes, the snide, snarky stuff is definitely borne of my personal style. I also have a low tolerance for fools...

I think you mean "I have a low tolerance for people who don't agree with me." lol
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 07, 2011, 10:54:09 AM
He continually exposes and denounces the plans and actions of Jewry worldwide. This is by no means specific to him. Multitudes of Athonite monks have spoke in similar ways (Elder Paisios, Elder Joseph of Vatopedi, etc.).

Statements by Elder Pasios that villify Jews in general, as Xenia and Brother Nathanael often do, are 1) hard to authenticate, and 2) would not automatically be right simply because they were uttered by an Athonite elder.

Meanwhile, bishops under whose authority I have been, and with whom you are in communion, have spoken against such conspiracy thinking. Now, if you want to find some True Genuine Old Calendarist 100% Authentic Orthodox Church just to be free from the Jewish conspiracy you see everywhere, that's your choice.

Quote
Much of what Br. Nathanael says is based off of the account provided in the Protocols of Zion and its application in our day and age. The book was published by a devout Orthodox layman who was given a blessing to do so by a saint (St. John Kronstadt).

Funny how just when Saint Iaint was muted after long complaints, someone steps up to take his place. Have you noticed how the clergy on this board doesn't ever lend support to such hyperbolic claims?

Quote
I challenge anyone to show an instance where Br. Nathanael has spoken contrary to Orthodoxy.

Soliciting donations for a religious ministry without the permission of one's bishop is certainly contrary to Orthodoxy. We've yet to see proof of Br. Nathanael's good standing with his bishop.

Wow CRCuliver, do you ever listen to yourself speak mate? You've contradicted yourself...

Also, I love how you think you are so high and mighty that you think you can tell this man his beliefs are crazy, just because he doesn't agree with you. You are acting like a certain schismatic 1054 bishop...
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: mike on July 07, 2011, 11:00:59 AM
Also, Michał Kalina stated that Br. Nathanael is not a monk.

Here from Br. Nathanael:

Quote
I started my monastic “communal” career in a Greek Orthodox Monastery at the age of 46 in 1996 until 2005 when Christ called me into a public ministry.

But I still maintain a monastic life complete with a prayer rule as assigned to me by my Superiors which includes fasting, a one-meal-a-day Vegan diet, 2 hours of the Jesus Prayer daily, prostrations and Spiritual reading (no Television viewing.)

I believe he refers to himself now as "a monk in the world".

He's a member of the ROCOR.

So you mean he was expelled from his HOCNA monastery and he is now an ex-monk?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 07, 2011, 01:51:16 PM
As I said previously, my problem is not "Jews", it is Judaism. The religion.

And I never said there is a Jewish conspiracy, you implied I believe that.

Really?

My problem with Bro. Nathanael is not so much what he says, but how he presents it.

I'm sorry I didn't make my position clear. I don't know if there is a "Jewish conspiracy" or not; what I was saying was that much of what he says about Judaism seems factual based on what I learned of the religion while growing up.

Really..?

I've been watching his videos..They seem entirely about a Global Jewish Conspiracy with few exceptions..The usual Nut Job stuff about Banking and Jewish Media Blah blah blah...  All conspiracy stuff which you said rang true with you.


Perhaps you should step away from all this and take a breath.

I had read his stories of how he converted from Judaism to Christianity, I had those more in mind.

Incidentally, you say you also (like me and Bro. Nathanael) are a Jew converted to Christianity. I notice it says ROCOR under your jurisdiction. I'd be very curious to hear your conversion story, esp. why you chose ROCOR. Was it before 2007 or after, btw?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 07, 2011, 09:24:30 PM
Quote from: CRCulver
If those kind of ritual purity laws are proof that there's a conspiracy out to get us, upper-caste Hindus will beat both the Christians and the Jews. There's certainly a lot more of them to worry about than Orthodox Jews.

Luckily for us the Hindus don't control Congress, much of the mainstream media, run the Federal Reserve or loan our governments money created out of thin air. The Jews?

Do.

Also, Michał Kalina stated that Br. Nathanael is not a monk.

Here from Br. Nathanael:

Quote
I started my monastic “communal” career in a Greek Orthodox Monastery at the age of 46 in 1996 until 2005 when Christ called me into a public ministry.

But I still maintain a monastic life complete with a prayer rule as assigned to me by my Superiors which includes fasting, a one-meal-a-day Vegan diet, 2 hours of the Jesus Prayer daily, prostrations and Spiritual reading (no Television viewing.)

I believe he refers to himself now as "a monk in the world".

He's a member of the ROCOR.

So you mean he was expelled from his HOCNA monastery and he is now an ex-monk?

Is that what I wrote? They are Br. Nathanael's words. Not mine.

He meant exactly what you read:

"(He) still maintain(s) a monastic life complete with a prayer rule as assigned to (him) by (his) Superiors..."

Do you have something to say other than vague allusory statements; putting words in my mouth?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 07, 2011, 10:16:53 PM
Luckily for us the Hindus don't control Congress, much of the mainstream media, run the Federal Reserve or loan our governments money created out of thin air. The Jews?

Do.

"The Jews?" At the most you could only suggest "some Jews (and not most others)"
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 07, 2011, 10:26:37 PM
Luckily for us the Hindus don't control Congress, much of the mainstream media, run the Federal Reserve or loan our governments money created out of thin air. The Jews?

Do.

"The Jews?" At the most you could only suggest "some Jews (and not most others)"

I've heard some use the term "organized Jewry", but I'm not what they mean by that? Organized secular Jewry, as in Bnai Brith, ADL, etc? Or Organized religious Jewry, as in Chabad Lubavitch, etc?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 07, 2011, 11:17:30 PM
Luckily for us the Hindus don't control Congress, much of the mainstream media, run the Federal Reserve or loan our governments money created out of thin air. The Jews?

Do.

"The Jews?" At the most you could only suggest "some Jews (and not most others)"

So I can say, "The Hindus" - no problem. Matter of fact ANY other group I can identify as belonging to a specific group...

But "The Jews" I can't say? I don't accept that.

I don't see anyone calling for such a distinction when they go on (foolishly) about "The Ruling White Class" or Black slavery.

I am not a member of the "Ruling White Class" and neither were any of my ancestors.

I had nothing to do with the practice of Black slavery and my forefathers were not slave owners.

Yet I'm expected to atone for these things somehow and actively speak out against them to disassociate & vindicate myself.

No more double-standards.



Quote from: Xenia1918
I've heard some use the term "organized Jewry", but I'm not (sure) what they mean by that?

It means that (a good portion at least) consider themselves to be "Jews" first and foremost regardless of where they are, rather than "French" or "British" or "European" or "African" or any other nationality.

Here's a good example of "Organized Jewry" (falsely calling themselves "Israel") at work:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_O6ILdsGzp0c/TOMGYz31ZxI/AAAAAAAABpM/B-HuD4tM0mk/s1600/judea-declares-war-on-germany-daily-express-1933-03-24-evening.jpg)

"Jews of All the World Unite"...

What if we saw a headline that read: "Whites of All the World Unite"?

No one needs to answer that. We already know.

No more double-standards.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 07, 2011, 11:24:06 PM
Philoumenos, Excellent observation and post (re: no more double standards.) If generalization is wrong for one group, its wrong for all. Likewise, if its acceptable for one, its acceptable for all.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 07, 2011, 11:40:54 PM
Isn't it kind of funny that all these anti-Semites pop up around the time that SaintIaint gets muted?  :-\
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 07, 2011, 11:45:50 PM
Isn't it kind of funny that all these anti-Semites pop up around the time that SaintIaint gets muted?  :-\

We're antisemites (one word) as much as you are anti-White.

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 08, 2011, 01:46:19 AM
Statements by Elder Pasios that villify Jews in general, as Xenia and Brother Nathanael often do, are 1) hard to authenticate, and 2) would not automatically be right simply because they were uttered by an Athonite elder.
Well, "vilification" of the Jews stretches a bit further than modern day Athonite monks. Have you read what St. John Chrysostom said concerning the Jewish people? St. Basil? St. Gregory of Nyssa? Criticizing Jews for their anti-Christ actions (both past and present) has a long and established history within the Church. Those Athonite elders have done nothing but carry on the understanding passed down to them, and with this understanding, explained current events.

Meanwhile, bishops under whose authority I have been, and with whom you are in communion, have spoken against such conspiracy thinking. Now, if you want to find some True Genuine Old Calendarist 100% Authentic Orthodox Church just to be free from the Jewish conspiracy you see everywhere, that's your choice
Sure, and there are holy bishops who speak out against International Jewry (Here is one, for example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DYeAv2vSIU). Merely because a bishop says something, doesn't in any way imply that we should believe it. We must compare his words to tradition and determine their Orthodoxy.

Funny how just when Saint Iaint was muted after long complaints, someone steps up to take his place. Have you noticed how the clergy on this board doesn't ever lend support to such hyperbolic claims?
I actually miss Saint Iaint, he was certainly one of the most thought-provoking and intellectual members of the board.

As far as the lack of support pertaining to such views, it doesn't surprise me. The prevailing character of most posters seems to be somewhere between following tradition and ecumenism. In light of the liberal streak present in a good portion of the members, I wouldn't anticipate support of everything our monks say, especially the views that make us unpopular to society.

Soliciting donations for a religious ministry without the permission of one's bishop is certainly contrary to Orthodoxy. We've yet to see proof of Br. Nathanael's good standing with his bishop.
Firstly, how do you know he does not have the blessing of his bishop?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Cognomen on July 08, 2011, 02:37:09 AM
I actually miss Saint Iaint, he was certainly one of the most thought-provoking and intellectual members of the board.

The second portion of your statement [in bold] is ridiculous and does you no favor.  Posting regurgitated, provocative internet arguments in different colored font does not make an intellectual. 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jharek Carnelian on July 08, 2011, 05:50:46 AM
Philoumenos, Excellent observation and post (re: no more double standards.) If generalization is wrong for one group, its wrong for all. Likewise, if its acceptable for one, its acceptable for all.

Oh the irony......
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 08, 2011, 07:20:35 AM
Statements by Elder Pasios that villify Jews in general, as Xenia and Brother Nathanael often do, are 1) hard to authenticate, and 2) would not automatically be right simply because they were uttered by an Athonite elder.
Well, "vilification" of the Jews stretches a bit further than modern day Athonite monks. Have you read what St. John Chrysostom said concerning the Jewish people? St. Basil? St. Gregory of Nyssa? Criticizing Jews for their anti-Christ actions (both past and present) has a long and established history within the Church. Those Athonite elders have done nothing but carry on the understanding passed down to them, and with this understanding, explained current events.

Meanwhile, bishops under whose authority I have been, and with whom you are in communion, have spoken against such conspiracy thinking. Now, if you want to find some True Genuine Old Calendarist 100% Authentic Orthodox Church just to be free from the Jewish conspiracy you see everywhere, that's your choice
Sure, and there are holy bishops who speak out against International Jewry (Here is one, for example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DYeAv2vSIU). Merely because a bishop says something, doesn't in any way imply that we should believe it. We must compare his words to tradition and determine their Orthodoxy.

Funny how just when Saint Iaint was muted after long complaints, someone steps up to take his place. Have you noticed how the clergy on this board doesn't ever lend support to such hyperbolic claims?
I actually miss Saint Iaint, he was certainly one of the most thought-provoking and intellectual members of the board.

As far as the lack of support pertaining to such views, it doesn't surprise me. The prevailing character of most posters seems to be somewhere between following tradition and ecumenism. In light of the liberal streak present in a good portion of the members, I wouldn't anticipate support of everything our monks say, especially the views that make us unpopular to society.

Soliciting donations for a religious ministry without the permission of one's bishop is certainly contrary to Orthodoxy. We've yet to see proof of Br. Nathanael's good standing with his bishop.
Firstly, how do you know he does not have the blessing of his bishop?


I'm new here, so I don't know who "Saint I Ain't" is, is he gone or just censored?

Liberalism and politically correct thought police have, unfortunately, invaded mostly all religions by now. How do you think I ended up interested in the Orthodox Church? The liberals basically destroyed the Roman Catholic Church. About the only religions they have not infected are Orthodox Judaism and Shiite Islam.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 09, 2011, 02:11:15 PM
Quote
Really..?

I've been watching his videos..They seem entirely about a Global Jewish Conspiracy with few exceptions..The usual Nut Job stuff about Banking and Jewish Media Blah blah blah...  All conspiracy stuff which you said rang true with you.


Perhaps you should step away from all this and take a breath.

Marc, have you ever read a little book by the name of the TALMUD? Because if a group followed that book, than why wouldn't they want to enslave gentiles or any of these "Nut Job" theories?

Quote

Because it's a blatant attempt to deflect criticism of your points and tone by ascribing you some supposed authority based on the mere fact you were born Jewish (if you in fact were).


I'm also going to go ahead and point out that I love how you Zionist supporters always pull the "if you are really jewish" card. If I pulled the "How do we know you're really a Christian?" card you would call me insane. I smell a Double-Standard.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 09, 2011, 02:11:15 PM
Luckily for us the Hindus don't control Congress, much of the mainstream media, run the Federal Reserve or loan our governments money created out of thin air. The Jews?

Do.

"The Jews?" At the most you could only suggest "some Jews (and not most others)"

I've heard some use the term "organized Jewry", but I'm not what they mean by that? Organized secular Jewry, as in Bnai Brith, ADL, etc? Or Organized religious Jewry, as in Chabad Lubavitch, etc?

Organized Secular Jewry.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 09, 2011, 02:11:16 PM
Isn't it kind of funny that all these anti-Semites pop up around the time that SaintIaint gets muted?  :-\

So unless you think Jewish people have some kind of God given genetics that make them do no wrong, you are an anti-semite?

You do understand every group of people can do (and they all do) bad things. We aren't saying the Jews are the only race or group of people that do bad. But anytime you point out a Jew for anything (Stealing a cookie from the cookie jar, robbing a bank, NWO) you are labelled as an anti semite. So would I be anti-white if I said a group of white people were doing it? (JTLYK if you say no, you ruin your argument).
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 09, 2011, 02:11:16 PM
Poor Jews, here you can have the land my ancestors come from. It's all yours! I'm sorry the holocaust happened, even if my ancestors took no part...

(http://www.lonelyplanet.com/maps/europe/norway/map_of_norway.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 09, 2011, 06:03:32 PM
Isn't it kind of funny that all these anti-Semites pop up around the time that SaintIaint gets muted?  :-\

So unless you think Jewish people have some kind of God given genetics that make them do no wrong, you are an anti-semite?

Right, that's exactly what I'm arguing.  :D
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 09, 2011, 06:57:30 PM
Quote
Really..?

I've been watching his videos..They seem entirely about a Global Jewish Conspiracy with few exceptions..The usual Nut Job stuff about Banking and Jewish Media Blah blah blah...  All conspiracy stuff which you said rang true with you.


Perhaps you should step away from all this and take a breath.

Marc, have you ever read a little book by the name of the TALMUD? Because if a group followed that book, than why wouldn't they want to enslave gentiles or any of these "Nut Job" theories?

Quote

Because it's a blatant attempt to deflect criticism of your points and tone by ascribing you some supposed authority based on the mere fact you were born Jewish (if you in fact were).


I'm also going to go ahead and point out that I love how you Zionist supporters always pull the "if you are really jewish" card. If I pulled the "How do we know you're really a Christian?" card you would call me insane. I smell a Double-Standard.

Don't mind him CelticFan.

He's just an Anti-Goyimite!

Quote

Anti-semite? What about anti-goyimite?

Introducing The Hoffman Center for the Study of Anti-Goyimism

Turning the Tables

I have never been interested in being confined to a category or placed on the defensive.  As far as categories go, I have always sought to turn the tables by thinking completely outside the box and crafting a new epistemology. Toward that end I coined the term "Judaic" to replace the appellation "Jew" as a description of rabbis and Zionists who lay claim to an awe-inspiring self-description with little or no evidence to substantiate their presumption.

Judaism offers race-based divinity to those of whom it is said are the descendants of the Old Testament patriarchs. We see echoes of this in Judeo-Churchianity, where the insinuation that “Jews” are saved by their racial prestige is a powerful undercurrent.


Continued: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2011/07/anti-semite-what-about-anti-goyimite.html
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 09, 2011, 07:06:51 PM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Cognomen on July 09, 2011, 07:30:50 PM
^ Seconded.

Let's hypothetically assume that Br. Nathanael's assertions are correct (which very few authorities on these subjects believe).  Does anyone think he's actually presenting his case in a responsible, persuasive way?  Instead, I'm inclined to believe that he's doing a fine job of embarrassing Orthodox Christianity.

He may be a great person; I don't know, but I cringe seeing him (or anyone really) present his "case" in that way.  He's not a monk, he should not be wearing monastic clothing and claiming to be one.  He comes off to most as a caricature of a loony, "Orthodox," conspiracy oriented oddball. 

So if the man doesn't agree with the mainstream ideas the media shoves down our throats he's "loony"? Wow, that's exactly what Al CIAda would say!  ::)

No, I think if someone dresses up like a monk and shouts things at random people, that is usually described as loony.  "Al CIAda"?  ;D
Continue to have fun with the internet, kid.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 09, 2011, 07:44:30 PM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 10, 2011, 12:01:52 AM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying? What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 10, 2011, 03:19:48 AM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying?
By definition, one can only lie about that which one knows to be true. He can be lying about what he knows to be a fact by stating that he knows more than he really does, but if he doesn't really know whether you're Christian or not, he isn't really lying by stating that you're not, for he simply doesn't know for certain. Again, lying is the act of telling someone the opposite of what the liar knows with certainty to be true. To accuse him of lying is to assert that you know what he knows to be true--in this case, to assert that you know that he knows without a doubt that you are a Christian yet would try to deceive us into believing you aren't. Are you ready to argue that you can read his mind with such certainty as to know exactly what he knows?

What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.
You're not really helping your cause any by launching your own defensive attack against Marc like this. I advise you then to just leave him alone.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: deusveritasest on July 10, 2011, 05:10:01 AM
Poor Jews, here you can have the land my ancestors come from. It's all yours! I'm sorry the holocaust happened, even if my ancestors took no part...

(http://www.lonelyplanet.com/maps/europe/norway/map_of_norway.jpg)

LOL!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jharek Carnelian on July 10, 2011, 02:56:31 PM
Isn't it kind of funny that all these anti-Semites pop up around the time that SaintIaint gets muted?  :-\

So unless you think Jewish people have some kind of God given genetics that make them do no wrong, you are an anti-semite?

You do understand every group of people can do (and they all do) bad things. We aren't saying the Jews are the only race or group of people that do bad. But anytime you point out a Jew for anything (Stealing a cookie from the cookie jar, robbing a bank, NWO) you are labelled as an anti semite. So would I be anti-white if I said a group of white people were doing it? (JTLYK if you say no, you ruin your argument).

Do we regularly hear on this forum about any other group organising the New World Order? Just asking......
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jharek Carnelian on July 10, 2011, 03:14:39 PM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The

The middle ground is feeling lonely as it is visited so little...
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 10, 2011, 05:06:40 PM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying? What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.

Oh okay..... I didnt catch the part that you're Roman Catholic..That counts. 

I've already recently posted my conversion story. I have nothing more to add. It's not all that interesting.. Click on my profile and go down the list a couple of weeks..

Btw. when a Jew converts to Christianity it's not a requirement that you become Antisemitic.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 10, 2011, 05:45:49 PM
Isn't it kind of funny that all these anti-Semites pop up around the time that SaintIaint gets muted?  :-\

So unless you think Jewish people have some kind of God given genetics that make them do no wrong, you are an anti-semite?

Right, that's exactly what I'm arguing.  :D

 :o :-X
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 10, 2011, 05:45:50 PM

Continued: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2011/07/anti-semite-what-about-anti-goyimite.html


Pretty truthful article.  8)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 10, 2011, 05:49:06 PM
Isn't it kind of funny that all these anti-Semites pop up around the time that SaintIaint gets muted?  :-\

So unless you think Jewish people have some kind of God given genetics that make them do no wrong, you are an anti-semite?

You do understand every group of people can do (and they all do) bad things. We aren't saying the Jews are the only race or group of people that do bad. But anytime you point out a Jew for anything (Stealing a cookie from the cookie jar, robbing a bank, NWO) you are labelled as an anti semite. So would I be anti-white if I said a group of white people were doing it? (JTLYK if you say no, you ruin your argument).

Do we regularly hear on this forum about any other group organizing the New World Order? Just asking......

Exactly. Why is that?

Because the NWO is the JWO.

Christians look to the heavenly kingdom... while Jews look to the earthly kingdom; dominion OVER the rest of us.

Read some Talmud and Zohar and get caught up on all of the things you are presently oblivious to.

Then make a comment.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 10, 2011, 06:04:20 PM

Continued: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2011/07/anti-semite-what-about-anti-goyimite.html


Pretty truthful article.  8)
Why is it truthful? Because it agrees with you?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: J.M.C on July 10, 2011, 06:38:20 PM
How in the world is it "defunct"?

Even in conservative Russian circles the holy fool is viewed as something from at least three centuries ago. The archetype may continue to appear in literature or film, but it is not considered part of contemporary Orthodoxy. Someone trying to revive it will probably have some problems with his bishop.

Anyone actively seeking to be a "Fool-for-Christ" will have problems with his bishop, but the same is true if someone actively seeking martyrdom too. Neither is because of such people don't exist anymore. Those who are called Fools-for-Christ or Holy Fools are done so after their death, and usually by popular acclaim.

As for the claim that holy fools are from "at least three centuries ago", here are some people from the past two-hundred years who are acclaimed as Fools for Christ, and are canonized, or else considered righteous and listed in calendars on the day of their repose:

Blessed Anthony Alexseevich, Fool-for-Christ of Zadonsk (+September 29, 1851)
Anthony Ivanovich, Fool-for-Christ of Valaam (+June 7, 1832)
Asenatha of Goritsky, Fool-for-Christ (+April 19, 1892)
Blessed Athanasius Adrewyevich of Orel, Fool-for-Christ (+April 12, 1967)
Priest Peter, fool-for-Christ of Uglich (+Sep 3, 1866)
Blessed Schema-hieromonk Theophilus, fool-for-Christ of the Kiev Caves (+Oct 28, 1852)
Anthony Ivanovich, fool-for-Christ of Valaam (+Jun 7, 1832)
New-Martyr Michael, Fool-for-Christ (+Apr 1, 1931)
Blessed Parasceva "Pasha of Sarov," Fool-for Christ of Diveyevo Convent (+1915)
New-Martyr Theoktista Michailovna of Voronezh (+Feb 22, 1936)

Also: http://www.roca.org/OA/105/105f.htm

...and also consider that St John the Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco (+1966) has been called a Holy Fool by quite a few people.

One of the defining things about Saints who were "Fools-for-Christ" was that they were mocked and thought insane: i.e. just fools. I inwardly wince at your comments for the simple reason that those who mocked the great Saints in previous centuries also thought the yurodivy to be not "part of contemporary Orthodoxy". I think it's too strong a statement to say that such a calling doesn't exist anymore. From the witnesses of the Church, it seems once a particular podvig appears and flourishes, it never entirely disappears again*.

The possibility of it is always there, because it has been revealed as path to Salvation.







*monasticism is a great example of this, which grew t the time of St Anthony the Great, and has never disappeared since
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CBGardner on July 10, 2011, 06:52:24 PM
How in the world is it "defunct"?

Even in conservative Russian circles the holy fool is viewed as something from at least three centuries ago. The archetype may continue to appear in literature or film, but it is not considered part of contemporary Orthodoxy. Someone trying to revive it will probably have some problems with his bishop.

Anyone actively seeking to be a "Fool-for-Christ" will have problems with his bishop, but the same is true if someone actively seeking martyrdom too. Neither is because of such people don't exist anymore. Those who are called Fools-for-Christ or Holy Fools are done so after their death, and usually by popular acclaim.

As for the claim that holy fools are from "at least three centuries ago", here are some people from the past two-hundred years who are acclaimed as Fools for Christ, and are canonized, or else considered righteous and listed in calendars on the day of their repose:

Blessed Anthony Alexseevich, Fool-for-Christ of Zadonsk (+September 29, 1851)
Anthony Ivanovich, Fool-for-Christ of Valaam (+June 7, 1832)
Asenatha of Goritsky, Fool-for-Christ (+April 19, 1892)
Blessed Athanasius Adrewyevich of Orel, Fool-for-Christ (+April 12, 1967)
Priest Peter, fool-for-Christ of Uglich (+Sep 3, 1866)
Blessed Schema-hieromonk Theophilus, fool-for-Christ of the Kiev Caves (+Oct 28, 1852)
Anthony Ivanovich, fool-for-Christ of Valaam (+Jun 7, 1832)
New-Martyr Michael, Fool-for-Christ (+Apr 1, 1931)
Blessed Parasceva "Pasha of Sarov," Fool-for Christ of Diveyevo Convent (+1915)
New-Martyr Theoktista Michailovna of Voronezh (+Feb 22, 1936)

Also: http://www.roca.org/OA/105/105f.htm

...and also consider that St John the Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco (+1966) has been called a Holy Fool by quite a few people.

One of the defining things about Saints who were "Fools-for-Christ" was that they were mocked and thought insane: i.e. just fools. I inwardly wince at your comments for the simple reason that those who mocked the great Saints in previous centuries also thought the yurodivy to be not "part of contemporary Orthodoxy". I think it's too strong a statement to say that such a calling doesn't exist anymore. From the witnesses of the Church, it seems once a particular podvig appears and flourishes, it never entirely disappears again*.

The possibility of it is always there, because it has been revealed as path to Salvation.







*monasticism is a great example of this, which grew t the time of St Anthony the Great, and has never disappeared since


And look at Mother Tarso the Fool-for-Christ. (thanks Jason haha) She was kicked out of a convent for being a fool. She reposed sometime in the 80's I believe.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 10, 2011, 07:18:01 PM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying?
By definition, one can only lie about that which one knows to be true. He can be lying about what he knows to be a fact by stating that he knows more than he really does, but if he doesn't really know whether you're Christian or not, he isn't really lying by stating that you're not, for he simply doesn't know for certain. Again, lying is the act of telling someone the opposite of what the liar knows with certainty to be true. To accuse him of lying is to assert that you know what he knows to be true--in this case, to assert that you know that he knows without a doubt that you are a Christian yet would try to deceive us into believing you aren't. Are you ready to argue that you can read his mind with such certainty as to know exactly what he knows?

What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.
You're not really helping your cause any by launching your own defensive attack against Marc like this. I advise you then to just leave him alone.

My story is in several places on this forum, all one needs to do is read my posts to learn my background. In fact its also listed in my profile info. In fact eacxh post of mine has this under my handle: "Faith: Orthodox catechumen of Jewish and Traditional RC background".


I am a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, but I truly hope that most Orthodox are not like him.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 10, 2011, 07:24:39 PM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying? What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.

Oh okay..... I didnt catch the part that you're Roman Catholic..That counts. 

I've already recently posted my conversion story. I have nothing more to add. It's not all that interesting.. Click on my profile and go down the list a couple of weeks..

Btw. when a Jew converts to Christianity it's not a requirement that you become Antisemitic.

I felt this way for a LONG time, and it had nothing to do with becoming a Christian. When you've grown up in Orthodox Judaism, you see learn and experience things that secular Jews and nonJews often don't know about.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 10, 2011, 11:53:25 PM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying?
By definition, one can only lie about that which one knows to be true. He can be lying about what he knows to be a fact by stating that he knows more than he really does, but if he doesn't really know whether you're Christian or not, he isn't really lying by stating that you're not, for he simply doesn't know for certain. Again, lying is the act of telling someone the opposite of what the liar knows with certainty to be true. To accuse him of lying is to assert that you know what he knows to be true--in this case, to assert that you know that he knows without a doubt that you are a Christian yet would try to deceive us into believing you aren't. Are you ready to argue that you can read his mind with such certainty as to know exactly what he knows?

What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.
You're not really helping your cause any by launching your own defensive attack against Marc like this. I advise you then to just leave him alone.

My story is in several places on this forum, all one needs to do is read my posts to learn my background. In fact its also listed in my profile info. In fact eacxh post of mine has this under my handle: "Faith: Orthodox catechumen of Jewish and Traditional RC background".


I am a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, but I truly hope that most Orthodox are not like him.

Do us and you a favor and stay with the RCC.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 10, 2011, 11:57:39 PM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying?
By definition, one can only lie about that which one knows to be true. He can be lying about what he knows to be a fact by stating that he knows more than he really does, but if he doesn't really know whether you're Christian or not, he isn't really lying by stating that you're not, for he simply doesn't know for certain. Again, lying is the act of telling someone the opposite of what the liar knows with certainty to be true. To accuse him of lying is to assert that you know what he knows to be true--in this case, to assert that you know that he knows without a doubt that you are a Christian yet would try to deceive us into believing you aren't. Are you ready to argue that you can read his mind with such certainty as to know exactly what he knows?

What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.
You're not really helping your cause any by launching your own defensive attack against Marc like this. I advise you then to just leave him alone.

My story is in several places on this forum, all one needs to do is read my posts to learn my background. In fact its also listed in my profile info. In fact eacxh post of mine has this under my handle: "Faith: Orthodox catechumen of Jewish and Traditional RC background".


I am a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, but I truly hope that most Orthodox are not like him.

Do us and you a favor and stay with the RCC.

May I quote you to my priest? And yes, he knows my views. He understands why I hold them, too.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 11, 2011, 12:13:26 AM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying?
By definition, one can only lie about that which one knows to be true. He can be lying about what he knows to be a fact by stating that he knows more than he really does, but if he doesn't really know whether you're Christian or not, he isn't really lying by stating that you're not, for he simply doesn't know for certain. Again, lying is the act of telling someone the opposite of what the liar knows with certainty to be true. To accuse him of lying is to assert that you know what he knows to be true--in this case, to assert that you know that he knows without a doubt that you are a Christian yet would try to deceive us into believing you aren't. Are you ready to argue that you can read his mind with such certainty as to know exactly what he knows?

What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.
You're not really helping your cause any by launching your own defensive attack against Marc like this. I advise you then to just leave him alone.

My story is in several places on this forum, all one needs to do is read my posts to learn my background. In fact its also listed in my profile info. In fact eacxh post of mine has this under my handle: "Faith: Orthodox catechumen of Jewish and Traditional RC background".


I am a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, but I truly hope that most Orthodox are not like him.

Do us and you a favor and stay with the RCC.
Why don't you do us and you a favor and not discourage people from joining themselves to the body of Christ.  Xenia is a catechumen, prepared to accept the entirety of the Orthodox faith, yet you urge her otherwise. I certainly do not use this term lightly, but your words are demonic.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 12:20:00 AM
Because the NWO is the JWO.
I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to believe this.
I'm losing faith in humanity one post at a time.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 11, 2011, 12:26:34 AM
Because the NWO is the JWO.
I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to believe this.
I'm losing faith in humanity one post at a time.
There are quite a few Jews who would agree with his statement. Just one for example :

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 11, 2011, 12:30:53 AM
Because the NWO is the JWO.
I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to believe this.
I'm losing faith in humanity one post at a time.
There are quite a few Jews who would agree with his statement. Just one for example :

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)

 In (Orthodox Jewish) Hebrew school, we were taught that "love your neighbor as yourself" only applies to fellow Jews. That, and many other things like it, are what led me gradually away from Judaism as a teenager originally. How could I accept that belief when half my family was not Jewish?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 12:44:05 AM
Because the NWO is the JWO.
I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to believe this.
I'm losing faith in humanity one post at a time.
There are quite a few Jews who would agree with his statement. Just one for example :

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)

I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: deusveritasest on July 11, 2011, 12:46:21 AM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying?
By definition, one can only lie about that which one knows to be true. He can be lying about what he knows to be a fact by stating that he knows more than he really does, but if he doesn't really know whether you're Christian or not, he isn't really lying by stating that you're not, for he simply doesn't know for certain. Again, lying is the act of telling someone the opposite of what the liar knows with certainty to be true. To accuse him of lying is to assert that you know what he knows to be true--in this case, to assert that you know that he knows without a doubt that you are a Christian yet would try to deceive us into believing you aren't. Are you ready to argue that you can read his mind with such certainty as to know exactly what he knows?

What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.
You're not really helping your cause any by launching your own defensive attack against Marc like this. I advise you then to just leave him alone.

My story is in several places on this forum, all one needs to do is read my posts to learn my background. In fact its also listed in my profile info. In fact eacxh post of mine has this under my handle: "Faith: Orthodox catechumen of Jewish and Traditional RC background".


I am a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, but I truly hope that most Orthodox are not like him.

Do us and you a favor and stay with the RCC.

FAIL
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: deusveritasest on July 11, 2011, 12:47:24 AM
I certainly do not use this term lightly, but your words are demonic.

Amen. And if there is any anti-Hebraism in this thread he certainly is not helping the healing of it.  ::)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 11, 2011, 12:56:00 AM
I certainly do not use this term lightly, but your words are demonic.

Amen. And if there is any anti-Hebraism in this thread he certainly is not helping the healing of it.  ::)

As I mentioned, I was raised an Orthodox Jew. I also grew up in an Orthodox Jewish community that was very insular, so much so that when I decided at age 18 to convert to Roman Catholicism, I had to travel outside of my neighborhood for catechesis so I would not be seen by neighbors and reported to my parents (I eventually did tell them, but I didn't want it to be right away, obviously.)

I saw, heard and was taught many things that never sat well with me...about Gentiles, about Christians, about Judaism's outlook on nonJews. That was my main gripe. Years later, I learned more, such as the way the rabbis after the destruction of the Second Temple reworked Judaism in order to insure its survival, by deliberately re-translating the Tanakh so prophecies would not sound so much like Christ.

My priest and Orthodox friends know of my issues and they are working with me on them. As one said to me, "If the rabbis lied, they didn't just lie to you and other Jews but to all of us....but you need to forgive them because if a veil was over their eyes about Christ, it was God who put it there".

He's right, and I know that. It just grieves me to know that so many Jews died without Christ because of their lies and distortions. I remember being taught that Christians deliberately distorted the Old Testament Scriptures to make them sound like Christ, and years later I learned that the reverse was actually true (look up the Septuagint/Masoretic controversy, and read Justin the Philosopher's Dialogue with Trypho the Jew for more info.)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Cognomen on July 11, 2011, 01:23:13 AM
- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 01:35:49 AM
- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.
ROFL! Well put!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 11, 2011, 01:47:45 AM
There are quite a few Jews who would agree with his statement. Just one for example :

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)

Perpetuating a spurious quotation (http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html) is bearing false witness.

Read some Talmud and Zohar and get caught up on all of the things you are presently oblivious to.

The majority of Jews have never read the Talmud, and certainly not the Zohar. It's hard to ascribe a conspiracy to an entire people on the basis of a book they've never read and wouldn't even care to.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 11, 2011, 02:01:42 AM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying? What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.

Oh okay..... I didnt catch the part that you're Roman Catholic..That counts. 

I've already recently posted my conversion story. I have nothing more to add. It's not all that interesting.. Click on my profile and go down the list a couple of weeks..

Btw. when a Jew converts to Christianity it's not a requirement that you become Antisemitic.

Is a requirement to be a Jewish person to believe in Jewish racial superiority? Because you certainly follow those guidelines.

If you think Jews are no better or worse than anyother group, how is that anti-semitic in the slightest?

Xenia is not antisemitic, she believes in universal racial equality...sorry you don't think gentiles are equal to Jews Marc...
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 11, 2011, 02:01:44 AM

Continued: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2011/07/anti-semite-what-about-anti-goyimite.html


Pretty truthful article.  8)
Why is it truthful? Because it agrees with you?

Would you agree with something that wasnt truthful? No offense, but if you thought the Bible was BS would you be a Christian?

I'll fire back, do you not think it is truthful because you do not agree with it?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 11, 2011, 02:01:44 AM
Deliberate flouting of society's conventions to serve Christianity, that's a BIG aspect of being a Holy Fool. There is nothing wrong with it, and it is, in fact, quite brave and honorable. Just because you dont have the courage to do it, doesnt make it crazy.

Thanks to people like you, in one hundred years people are going to be saying monasteries are insane. Leave your secular views of the world when you convert people. ;)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 11, 2011, 02:01:45 AM
- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.

Ahh, the internet. Where people assume forgetting a source automatically makes it false.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 11, 2011, 02:02:50 AM

Continued: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2011/07/anti-semite-what-about-anti-goyimite.html


Pretty truthful article.  8)
Why is it truthful? Because it agrees with you?

Would you agree with something that wasnt truthful? No offense, but if you thought the Bible was BS would you be a Christian?

I'll fire back, do you not think it is truthful because you do not agree with it?
I asked the first question here. You will get no answer from me until I get one from you. :)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 02:11:49 AM
- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.

Ahh, the internet. Where people assume forgetting a source automatically makes it false.
Oh I suppose you "heard" him say it too.
In psychiatry we call this kind of stuff folie à plusieurs, and the internet has spread this mental illness further and faster than any time in history.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 11, 2011, 02:50:50 AM
- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.

Ahh, the internet. Where people assume forgetting a source automatically makes it false.
Oh I suppose you "heard" him say it too.
In psychiatry we call this kind of stuff folie à plusieurs, and the internet has spread this mental illness further and faster than any time in history.

folie à plusieurs - Isn't that the same thing as shared delusions?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 03:04:30 AM
- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.

Ahh, the internet. Where people assume forgetting a source automatically makes it false.
Oh I suppose you "heard" him say it too.
In psychiatry we call this kind of stuff folie à plusieurs, and the internet has spread this mental illness further and faster than any time in history.

folie à plusieurs - Isn't that the same thing as shared delusions?
The proper term is "Shared Psychotic Disorder" and folie à plusieurs is one of the many Shared Psychotic Disorders.

The types include (but are not limited to):

Folie à deux ("insanity of two"), where two people -usually a couple- are involved. The characters George & Martha in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf would be an example of this.

Folie en famille ("insanity in the family"), where an entire family falls into the delusional beliefs of one of the members (Westboro Baptist Church is an example of this).

Folie à plusieurs ("insanity of many") where a delusional belief spreads through an entire group of people. The Salem Witch Trials would be an example of this.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 11, 2011, 03:07:55 AM
- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.

Ahh, the internet. Where people assume forgetting a source automatically makes it false.
Oh I suppose you "heard" him say it too.
In psychiatry we call this kind of stuff folie à plusieurs, and the internet has spread this mental illness further and faster than any time in history.


Way to be judgemental, good Christian morals. I never said Ive heard it, I'm just saying I know Ioannis Climacus, he wouldn't make that up.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 11, 2011, 03:07:55 AM

Continued: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2011/07/anti-semite-what-about-anti-goyimite.html


Pretty truthful article.  8)
Why is it truthful? Because it agrees with you?

Would you agree with something that wasnt truthful? No offense, but if you thought the Bible was BS would you be a Christian?

I'll fire back, do you not think it is truthful because you do not agree with it?
I asked the first question here. You will get no answer from me until I get one from you. :)

Obvious questions do not require obvious answers mate. Wouldn't it make sense to think something you agree with is truthful?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 11, 2011, 03:10:08 AM
- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.

Ahh, the internet. Where people assume forgetting a source automatically makes it false.
Oh I suppose you "heard" him say it too.
In psychiatry we call this kind of stuff folie à plusieurs, and the internet has spread this mental illness further and faster than any time in history.


Way to be judgemental, good Christian morals.
If the shoe doesn't fit, why are you trying to wear it?

I never said Ive heard it, I'm just saying I know Ioannis Climacus, he wouldn't make that up.
No one's saying he would make it up. What he's more likely doing is passing it along without questioning it because it fits his world view.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 03:11:28 AM
- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.

Ahh, the internet. Where people assume forgetting a source automatically makes it false.
Oh I suppose you "heard" him say it too.
In psychiatry we call this kind of stuff folie à plusieurs, and the internet has spread this mental illness further and faster than any time in history.

Way to be judgemental, good Christian morals. I never said Ive heard it, I'm just saying I know Ioannis Climacus, he wouldn't make that up.
I didn't say you guys were morally corrupt. Just sharing a delusion.
You're not bad. You're mad. :)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 11, 2011, 03:12:20 AM

Continued: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2011/07/anti-semite-what-about-anti-goyimite.html


Pretty truthful article.  8)
Why is it truthful? Because it agrees with you?

Would you agree with something that wasnt truthful? No offense, but if you thought the Bible was BS would you be a Christian?

I'll fire back, do you not think it is truthful because you do not agree with it?
I asked the first question here. You will get no answer from me until I get one from you. :)

Obvious questions do not require obvious answers mate.
I'm not your mate, buddy.

Wouldn't it make sense to think something you agree with is truthful?
I'm not saying you agree with it; I'm saying it agrees with you.

BTW, just because you agree with something and therefore think it truthful doesn't mean it is. That's the point I've been trying to make with you. Would you concur that it's possible to agree with a lie?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 11, 2011, 04:01:45 AM
- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.
Ha, that's what you call refutation? The author of the blog fails to even address the quote provided. He instead diverts attention to something completely different. The author claims that in reality the quote is a misquote of a misquote (which he cites as coming from the New Statesman). His source? An internet forum (the level of academic refutation is overwhelming). I actually have a portion of this Knesset session on an audio file (which I can and will provide to anyone willing to translate). That said, it is short and certainly does not contain the entirety of the session, so it may lack the section in question.

Evidence of this quote seems to be derived from entirely secondary sources (which does not necessarily ruin its credibility). I think we need to delve into the personal character of Menachem Begin as well as the nature of Jewish supremacism. The quote attributed to Mr. Begin is certainly not innovative (there are multiple Talmudic passages that share this sentiment), nor is it foreign to the Israeli mindset (http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/palestinians.php). These are numerous quotes expressing the same vile racism. Do you remember what President Jimmy Carter said about Begin in his memoirs? Who he compared him to? I will give you a hint. It was a particular Austrian dictator of recent memory. Even without primary evidence, all of this is pretty damning on his part - Overt racism (Carter actually records him as mentioning his "Master Race" in private conversation), apartheid politics against the Palestinian people, belief in the anti-Christ (and racist) Talmud, etc. On what grounds exactly are we defending Mr. Begin?

There are quite a few Jews who would agree with his statement. Just one for example :

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)

Perpetuating a spurious quotation (http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html) is bearing false witness.
Only if it's actually false. Do some research next time, rather than copying and pasting the first result on a Google search.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 04:25:03 AM
Do some research next time, rather than copying and pasting the first result on a Google search.
I did.

Dear celticfan1888, Xenia1918, and Ioannis Climacus,
Being the pious Orthodox Christians you are, always seeking the truth, I thought you might like to know the original source for your alleged quote of Menachem Begin. It comes from one "Texe Marrs" who runs this (http://www.texemarrs.com/) "internet ministry" website. He posted it in 2003 on rense.com (http://rense.com/), a website run by one "Jeff Rense" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Rense), an American conspiracy theorist. Here is the post: http://www.rense.com/general45/master.htm . I know how much you guys value these two "pillars of Orthodoxy", Mr. Jeff Rense, and Mr. Texe Marrs and their wonderful "internet ministries" which are such a great service to humanity, so I thought you'd like to know. :)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 11, 2011, 04:36:36 AM
I think we need to delve into the personal character of Menachem Begin as well as the nature of Jewish supremacism. The quote attributed to Mr. Begin is certainly not innovative (there are multiple Talmudic passages that share this sentiment), nor is it foreign to the Israeli mindset (http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/palestinians.php). These are numerous quotes expressing the same vile racism. Do you remember what President Jimmy Carter said about Begin in his memoirs? Who he compared him to? I will give you a hint. It was a particular Austrian dictator of recent memory. Even without primary evidence, all of this is pretty damning on his part - Overt racism (Carter actually records him as mentioning his "Master Race" in private conversation), apartheid politics against the Palestinian people, belief in the anti-Christ (and racist) Talmud, etc. On what grounds exactly are we defending Mr. Begin?

Even if the Begin quote were authentic, and even if the Talmud does contain irksome passages, how does that imply that Christians should fear a conspiracy of "the Jews" again?

When people complain about "those Christians" on the basis of actions by annoying Protestant groups, Orthodox are quick to say that not all Christians are like that. But with Jews, why are we supposed to assume they are all Talmud-driven fanatics, when all evidence is that the dogma of the religion matters to only a small minority of those calling themselves Jewish?

It's foolish and counterproductive. I don't think the Church shouldn't evangelize those poor Jewish people, far from it. Rather, I suggest a "know your enemy" approach when engaging Jewish society, because trying to speak to a caricature isn't effective mission.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 04:42:37 AM
Even if the Begin quote were authentic
Surely Jeff Rense and Texe Marrs wouldn't lie?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 11, 2011, 05:14:38 AM
Because the NWO is the JWO.
I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to believe this.
I'm losing faith in humanity one post at a time.
There are quite a few Jews who would agree with his statement. Just one for example :

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)

I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ha!

All one has to do is glance at the CAMERA (http://www.camera.org/) site to see who runs it.

The problem arises when one believes that these people won't lie. They will!



The majority of Jews have never read the Talmud, and certainly not the Zohar.


Oh? I guess you've got "the majority of Jews" in your kitchen over there with you do you?


In psychiatry we call this kind of stuff folie à plusieurs, and the internet has spread this mental illness further and faster than any time in history.


Insinuations of mental illness again I see. Nice.

Couldn't someone just as easily accuse you of insanity because you don't believe it?

I'm pretty sure that neither you or Marc1152 are qualified to make diagnoses over the internet.

Let's be a little nicer to each other here OK? It's real easy!

- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)
I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ahh, the internet.  A sourceless quote, stated as fact and refuted by a blog.

Ahh, the internet. Where people assume forgetting a source automatically makes it false.
Oh I suppose you "heard" him say it too.
In psychiatry we call this kind of stuff folie à plusieurs, and the internet has spread this mental illness further and faster than any time in history.

folie à plusieurs - Isn't that the same thing as shared delusions?
The proper term is "Shared Psychotic Disorder" and folie à plusieurs is one of the many Shared Psychotic Disorders.

The types include (but are not limited to):

Folie à deux ("insanity of two"), where two people -usually a couple- are involved. The characters George & Martha in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf would be an example of this.

Folie en famille ("insanity in the family"), where an entire family falls into the delusional beliefs of one of the members (Westboro Baptist Church is an example of this).

Folie à plusieurs ("insanity of many") where a delusional belief spreads through an entire group of people. The Salem Witch Trials would be an example of this.

What do you call shared denial?


You're not bad. You're mad. :)


You got that right. "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WINDtlPXmmE (Mild profanity)


Would you concur that it's possible to agree with a lie?


Would you agree that it's possible to think (or more appropriately to be convinced) something is a lie when it's actually true?

Many people say Jesus Christ is a lie. I could find you half a million links that would agree... But that don't make it true.

Here's a quote for you:

“Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes the laws.” (http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/mayer_amschel_rothschild_quote_8bed)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 05:26:20 AM
Because the NWO is the JWO.
I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to believe this.
I'm losing faith in humanity one post at a time.
There are quite a few Jews who would agree with his statement. Just one for example :

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)

I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ha!

All one has to do is glance at the CAMERA (http://www.camera.org/) site to see who runs it.
All one has to do is look at the original source for the quote and the kind of people you examples of pious Orthodox Christianity believe:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37755.msg598586.html#msg598586
Insisting on your delusions after they are patently proven false merely confirms my diagnosis (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37755.msg598538.html#msg598538) of your folie à plusieurs.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 11, 2011, 05:30:38 AM
Oh? I guess you've got "the majority of Jews" in your kitchen over there with you do you?

It's well documented that even in Israel, the "Jewish state", 80% of people identifying as Jews are secular and generally do not care for the Talmud, the object of study of the disparaged Orthodox Jewish minority.

Quote
Here's a quote for you:

“Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes the laws.” (http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/mayer_amschel_rothschild_quote_8bed)

Again, even if this quote were authentic (and there's no primary sources for it -- The Creature from Jekyll Island is book from 1998 written by a conspiracy theorist and published by a non-academic press), how does it support the idea of a global conspiracy of "the Jews"?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 11, 2011, 06:05:35 AM
Because the NWO is the JWO.
I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to believe this.
I'm losing faith in humanity one post at a time.
There are quite a few Jews who would agree with his statement. Just one for example :

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)

I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ha!

All one has to do is glance at the  MODERATED  site to see who runs it.
All one has to do is look at the original source for the quote and the kind of people you examples of pious Orthodox Christianity believe:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37755.msg598586.html#msg598586
Insisting on your delusions after they are patently proven false merely confirms my diagnosis (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37755.msg598538.html#msg598538) of your folie à plusieurs.

I don't have to look. I remember when it went up. That is not the original source for that quote. That's BS.

It was listed first (or before Marrs' post anyway) on Mike Rivero's site:  LINK MODERATED  What REALLY Happened... It's #28 on the list.

Mike Rivero is himself a Sephardic Jew. That's why they send you on a wild goose chase to a supposedly 'Christian' website. It's all so transparent and predictable as to be laughable... and yet there are no shortage of people who just refuse to believe that the sweet little Jews are lying through their teeth!

The ORIGINAL, original source for the quote though is listed at WRH:

- Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982

According to  LINK MODERATED  Franklin Lamb:
Quote
"It was Amnon Kapeliouk who courageously published in the New Statesmen of June 25 1982 the racist Zionist rant of Prime Minister Begin before the Knesset forty eight hours earlier. His report was to activate the Boston based McCarthyite Zionist hate group, CAMERA to hound him until his death.

So spoke Begin to his colleagues::

""Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine gods on this planet. We are as

different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our

race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered

as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly

kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our

feet and serve us as our slaves."
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 06:19:24 AM
Uh huh. So you are quoting something posted in 2009 to "prove" that it predates something posted in 2003......
And you are trying to prove to me how sane you are by quoting from well known conspiracy theory sites (one of which, by the way has a malicious virus which Norton picked up- or perhaps "they" just don't want you to visit it.......)



Because the NWO is the JWO.
I can't believe anyone could be so stupid as to believe this.
I'm losing faith in humanity one post at a time.
There are quite a few Jews who would agree with his statement. Just one for example :

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

- Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister in a speech to the Knesset)

I remember when he said that (sighh). What an idiot.
Do you really? That's interesting, because he NEVER said it:
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Ha!

All one has to do is glance at the CAMERA (http://www.camera.org/) site to see who runs it.
All one has to do is look at the original source for the quote and the kind of people you examples of pious Orthodox Christianity believe:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37755.msg598586.html#msg598586
Insisting on your delusions after they are patently proven false merely confirms my diagnosis (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37755.msg598538.html#msg598538) of your folie à plusieurs.

I don't have to look. I remember when it went up. That is not the original source for that quote. That's BS.

It was listed first (or before Marrs' post anyway) on Mike Rivero's site: What REALLY Happened (http://)... It's #28 on the list.

Mike Rivero is himself a Sephardic Jew. That's why they send you on a wild goose chase to a supposedly 'Christian' website. It's all so transparent and predictable as to be laughable... and yet there are no shortage of people who just refuse to believe that the sweet little Jews are lying through their teeth!

The ORIGINAL, original source for the quote though is listed at WRH:

- Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982

According to Franklin Lamb: (http://www.countercurrents.org/lamb010709.htm)

Quote
"It was Amnon Kapeliouk who courageously published in the New Statesmen of June 25 1982 the racist Zionist rant of Prime Minister Begin before the Knesset forty eight hours earlier. His report was to activate the Boston based McCarthyite Zionist hate group, CAMERA to hound him until his death.

So spoke Begin to his colleagues::

""Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine gods on this planet. We are as

different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our

race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered

as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly

kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our

feet and serve us as our slaves."

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 11, 2011, 06:22:41 AM
Oh? I guess you've got "the majority of Jews" in your kitchen over there with you do you?

It's well documented that even in Israel, the "Jewish state", 80% of people identifying as Jews are secular and generally do not care for the Talmud, the object of study of the disparaged Orthodox Jewish minority.

Or at least that's what they want you to think. Regardless. It's a Talmudic culture; it's a worldview:

'Feeling the Hate in Jerusalem' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqMTEKmlzc8) by Max Blumenthal (PROFANITY)

Listen to the guy give out a fake Auschwitz number... Ha!

Quote
Here's a quote for you:

“Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes the laws.” (http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/mayer_amschel_rothschild_quote_8bed)

Quote
Again, even if this quote were authentic (and there's no primary sources for it -- The Creature from Jekyll Island is book from 1998 written by a conspiracy theorist and published by a non-academic press), how does it support the idea of a global conspiracy of "the Jews"?

Really?

Maybe you should look into the history of the Rothschilds (RedShields) and their ilk around the world in recent history a little first.

Yeah. I think so.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 11, 2011, 06:24:53 AM
Uh huh. So you are quoting something posted in 2009 to "prove" that it predates something posted in 2003......
And you are trying to prove to me how sane you are by quoting from well known conspiracy theory sites (one of which, by the way has a malicious virus which Norton picked up- or perhaps "they" just don't want you to visit it.......)


LOL

Failure.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 06:26:11 AM
Uh huh. So you are quoting something posted in 2009 to "prove" that it predates something posted in 2003......
And you are trying to prove to me how sane you are by quoting from well known conspiracy theory sites (one of which, by the way has a malicious virus which Norton picked up- or perhaps "they" just don't want you to visit it.......)


LOL

Failure.

Really?
BINGO!:
Or at least that's what they want you to think.

In this thread, you have
1) Proven you're deluded.
2) Managed to get your computer hacked by visiting one of the many conspiracy sites you frequent.

I'd say that's a fail. :)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 11, 2011, 06:33:35 AM
Or at least that's what they want you to think. Regardless. It's a Talmudic culture; it's a worldview

Right, because the guy who considers himself Jewish because his Polish grandmother was and, after leaving religious observance behind, his family never adopted any other faith else is so steeped in the Talmud. The 30,000 Israelis a year who go to India and sit on the beach smoking hashish, praising Shiva and complaining that Abrahamic religion is BS are so steeped in rabbinical lore. The Russians who came to Israel because they could find better jobs than in the former USSR, and who are more sympathetic to Russian Orthodoxy than to Orthodox Judaism, are so bent on world domination.

Quote
'Feeling the Hate in Jerusalem' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqMTEKmlzc8) by Max Blumenthal (PROFANITY)

For about the dozenth time I'll ask, assuming that some calling themselves Jewish are obnoxious, how does that support the claim of a conspiracy of "the Jews"?

Quote
Maybe you should look into the history of the Rothschilds (RedShields) and their ilk around the world in recent history a little first.

Even if the Rothschilds are nefarious, how does this imply that Jews in general are in conspiracy?



Post modified to clean up profanity... -PtA
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 11, 2011, 09:15:27 AM
I need to explain something. Because a person's identity as a Christian is determined by their faith and practice, Christians often assume that Judaism works the same way. But religion alone is not what makes one Jewish (or not). Jews are a religio-nation, which means even if a Jew is an atheist or non-practicing, he is still regarded as a Jew in full, as long as his mother is. Even a Jew who becomes a member of another religion remains a Jew ("A Jew who sins remains a Jew", Tractate Sanhedrin; the Talmud), although naturally they are treated like pariahs while they remain in the other religion. In fact a Jew who converts to another religion and seeks to return to Judaism, does not have to go through a re-conversion ceremony apart from MAYBE a trip to the mikveh (ritual purification tank, similaer to Christian baptism).

As for Menachem Begin's quote (alleged or real), I first saw it on a Jewish website, so I naturally assumed it was legit (I don't recall why they had posted it, but they did.)

Much of the teaching found in the "oral Torah" (Talmud) had been orally passed down from generation to generation, long before it was set into writing at the time of the destruction of the Second Bais HaMikdash (Temple). It is still orally passed down in many fashions, and are an integral part of the modern Jewish religion. In fact it was these very teachings that Christ Himself railed against the Parushim (Pharisees) for keeping meticulously, often to the exclusion of the actual Torah (Five Books of Moses)!

I have known many Jews, even secular ones, who refused to eat cheese burgers because they said "the Jew in me just won't do it", even though this is a Talmudic teaching, and even though they themselves had never studied Talmud. There are many rituals and customs in modern Judaism that many Jews engage in, even though they have never read the Talmud.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 11, 2011, 09:24:52 AM
As for Menachem Begin's quote (alleged or real)
Oh I think we've seen (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37755.msg598586.html#msg598586) that it's the product of a delusional mind spread via internet conspiracy theory sites to other delusional minds.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 11, 2011, 10:34:07 AM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying?
By definition, one can only lie about that which one knows to be true. He can be lying about what he knows to be a fact by stating that he knows more than he really does, but if he doesn't really know whether you're Christian or not, he isn't really lying by stating that you're not, for he simply doesn't know for certain. Again, lying is the act of telling someone the opposite of what the liar knows with certainty to be true. To accuse him of lying is to assert that you know what he knows to be true--in this case, to assert that you know that he knows without a doubt that you are a Christian yet would try to deceive us into believing you aren't. Are you ready to argue that you can read his mind with such certainty as to know exactly what he knows?

What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.
You're not really helping your cause any by launching your own defensive attack against Marc like this. I advise you then to just leave him alone.

My story is in several places on this forum, all one needs to do is read my posts to learn my background. In fact its also listed in my profile info. In fact eacxh post of mine has this under my handle: "Faith: Orthodox catechumen of Jewish and Traditional RC background".


I am a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, but I truly hope that most Orthodox are not like him.

Do us and you a favor and stay with the RCC.

May I quote you to my priest? And yes, he knows my views. He understands why I hold them, too.

Yes indeed..Tell him I said we are all full up with Anti-Semites already and the last thing we need is another one.

The Catholic Church is far larger in the USA. They have more capacity to absorb your little "Story" as you call it without as much damage to their reputation..

 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 11, 2011, 11:02:33 AM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying?
By definition, one can only lie about that which one knows to be true. He can be lying about what he knows to be a fact by stating that he knows more than he really does, but if he doesn't really know whether you're Christian or not, he isn't really lying by stating that you're not, for he simply doesn't know for certain. Again, lying is the act of telling someone the opposite of what the liar knows with certainty to be true. To accuse him of lying is to assert that you know what he knows to be true--in this case, to assert that you know that he knows without a doubt that you are a Christian yet would try to deceive us into believing you aren't. Are you ready to argue that you can read his mind with such certainty as to know exactly what he knows?

What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.
You're not really helping your cause any by launching your own defensive attack against Marc like this. I advise you then to just leave him alone.

My story is in several places on this forum, all one needs to do is read my posts to learn my background. In fact its also listed in my profile info. In fact each post of mine has this under my handle: "Faith: Orthodox catechumen of Jewish and Traditional RC background".


I am a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, but I truly hope that most Orthodox are not like him.

Do us and you a favor and stay with the RCC.

May I quote you to my priest? And yes, he knows my views. He understands why I hold them, too.

Yes indeed..Tell him I said we are all full up with Anti-Semites already and the last thing we need is another one.

The Catholic Church is far larger in the USA. They have more capacity to absorb your little "Story" as you call it without as much damage to their reputation..

 

Trust me when I say that if  I wanted to consult someone to ask if I should continue with my intention to join the Church, you are the absolute last person I would ever consider consulting.

And now, if you don't mind, I won't be reading or replying to any of your posts anymore, unless someone directs my attention to one (as has happened).
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 11, 2011, 11:18:48 AM

Xenia!

It's great to hear you will be christmated in two weeks time!

I think we all need to take a step back and focus on what is truly important here....that the Orthodox Church is going to increase in number by one member!

I cannot believe that some of our Orthodox faithful would ever truly recommend that someone not join Orthodoxy.  I believe we are letting our momentary emotions get the better of us. 

How about we forgive each other and let this thread die a quiet death?

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: J.M.C on July 11, 2011, 11:31:47 AM

Yes, Liza, it is good news and I wish Xenia many years!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 11, 2011, 11:39:33 AM
Thank you, Liza and JMC for bringing some holy Orthodoxy into this thread!  :)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CBGardner on July 11, 2011, 11:48:56 AM

Xenia!

It's great to hear you will be christmated in two weeks time!

I think we all need to take a step back and focus on what is truly important here....that the Orthodox Church is going to increase in number by one member!

I cannot believe that some of our Orthodox faithful would ever truly recommend that someone not join Orthodoxy.  I believe we are letting our momentary emotions get the better of us. 

How about we forgive each other and let this thread die a quiet death?



Amen. Many years!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 11, 2011, 04:20:11 PM
Even if the Rothschilds are nefarious, how does this imply that Jews in general are in conspiracy?

No one ever said all Jews were responsible.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 11, 2011, 05:48:28 PM
Or at least that's what they want you to think. Regardless. It's a Talmudic culture; it's a worldview

Right, because the guy who considers himself Jewish because his Polish grandmother was and, after leaving religious observance behind, his family never adopted any other faith else is so steeped in the Talmud. The 30,000 Israelis a year who go to India and sit on the beach smoking hashish, praising Shiva and complaining that Abrahamic religion is bullshit are so steeped in rabbinical lore. The Russians who came to Israel because they could find better jobs than in the former USSR, and who are more sympathetic to Russian Orthodoxy than to Orthodox Judaism, are so bent on world domination.

Please see Xenia's post above on the subject. It's cultural.

Are there Jews who don't go along with all that it entails? YES. Look at Xenia.

But also look at how fellow Jews (even supposedly Orthodox Christian ones) treat her when she tells the truth about this stuff... this behind your back stuff. They almost all lie about it to our faces because for them not to do so "Wouldn't Be Good For the Jews".

Quote
Quote
'Feeling the Hate in Jerusalem' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqMTEKmlzc8) by Max Blumenthal (PROFANITY)

For about the dozenth time I'll ask, assuming that some calling themselves Jewish are obnoxious, how does that support the claim of a conspiracy of "the Jews"?

It shows you how they speak when there are only other Jews around... They're like drunks: the truth comes out!

Quote
Quote
Maybe you should look into the history of the Rothschilds (RedShields) and their ilk around the world in recent history a little first.

Even if the Rothschilds are nefarious, how does this imply that Jews in general are in conspiracy?

I'm pretty sure I never said "Jews in general ______," or "All Jews ________."

But there ARE Jews in a conspiracy to rule this earth; to rule OVER the so-called 'Gentiles'.

And THOSE Jews control the majority of the U.S. Congress and Senate, most of the mainstream media, and the Federal Reserve System (of money creation & usury). Go ahead and research into who OWNS the Federal Reserve. See any O' Malleys or  McCormacs on the list?

They have banks all over the world now, creating money from nothing (poof!) and then lending it AT INTEREST to our respective governments. This money that they've fraudulently "lent" to us is "paid back" to them by TAXPAYERS like you and I.

This IS part of said conspiracy.

The Jewish state has a booming economy. Yet the U.S. still sends them (at least) 3 Billion dollars a year (!$$$!) in so-called "AID".

The aid is illegal because the Jewish state has UNDECLARED NUCLEAR WEAPONS. They refuse to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and they refuse to allow inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency.

These are the same things many dumb Americans want to militarily attack Iran for now - even though Iran has NO nukes, IS A SIGNATORY to the NNPT and DOES allow IAEA inspectors into their facilities.

Why is this the case? Is it because Ahmadinejad said he wanted to "Drive the Jews into the Sea!"? Or "Wipe Israel off the Map!!"? Or is it because he (GASP!) denies that 6,000,000 Jews were murdered by the Germans in WWII?

These statements do not however indict ALL Jews, as you infer.

But many indict themselves by denying it and lying about it; actively covering for their co-religionists in "Jewry". Why?

Because it's "Good for the Jews".

As for Menachem Begin's quote (alleged or real)
Oh I think we've seen (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37755.msg598586.html#msg598586) that it's the product of a delusional mind spread via internet conspiracy theory sites to other delusional minds.


I, OzGeorge have spoken!

(Or, more accurately) The Zionist institution CAMERA has spoken and I, OzGeorge have parroted!

It's just a question of who to believe. An honest Jew exposing the Zionists...

OR the Zionist organization CAMERA trying to cover for their Zionist pals by defaming anyone who dares to tell the truth.

If I'm investigating the KKK - do I go to a KKK source to get the truth about the KKK? Or should I just assume that the KKK will lie to me to protect their own, and their own common agenda?

Duh.

If I want to verify that Obama privately says he's working for gun control "behind the scenes"... should I bother asking Jay Carney? (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2005/12/07/his_defense_never_rests/)

 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 11, 2011, 07:01:55 PM
Quote from: Philoumenos
But there ARE Jews in a conspiracy to rule this earth; to rule OVER the so-called 'Gentiles'.

And THOSE Jews control the majority of the U.S. Congress and Senate, most of the mainstream media, and the Federal Reserve System (of money creation & usury). Go ahead and research into who OWNS the Federal Reserve. See any O' Malleys or  McCormacs on the list?

???  ???  ???

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/9141c1ac-7815-4d01-9285-232c83383729.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 11, 2011, 07:53:26 PM
Quote from: Philoumenos
But there ARE Jews in a conspiracy to rule this earth; to rule OVER the so-called 'Gentiles'.

And THOSE Jews control the majority of the U.S. Congress and Senate, most of the mainstream media, and the Federal Reserve System (of money creation & usury). Go ahead and research into who OWNS the Federal Reserve. See any O' Malleys or  McCormacs on the list?

???  ???  ???
 
(You've got to be kidding me)

Nope. Not kidding.

JEWS THAT RUN THE PRIVATELY-OWNED FEDERAL RESERVE BANK:

1) Ben Shalom Bernanke: Chairman of the Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. Term ends 2020.

2) Donald L. Kohn: Vice Chairman of the Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. Term ends 2016.

3) Randall S. Kroszner: Member of Board of Governors of Federal Reserve.

4) Frederic S. Mishkin: Member of Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. Term ends 2014.

5) Alan Greenspan: Advisor to Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. (Previous) Chairman.

...

THE JEWISH BANKS THAT OWN THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM (List from 2007)

* Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin
* Goldman Sachs Bank of New York
* Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York/Shearson American Express
* Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris
* Israel Moses Sief Banks of Italy
* Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam
* Lehman Brothers Bank of New York (Now defunct)
* Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (David Rockefeller [Crypto-Jew?])

'Federal Reserve Jews Control America' (http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=92)

...

'President Andrew Jackson Vs Jewish Bankers' (http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=99)

'Federal Reserve Articles' (http://www.realzionistnews.com/?cat=83)

Here's a cartoon for those of you that don't like to study and read and have a hard time getting it (*Note the RedSheild*):

'The American Dream' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6OQzH07u0U&feature=related)

With love,
You're welcome.

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 11, 2011, 07:55:27 PM
Philoumenos- Now tell us the truth about the Holocaust.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 11, 2011, 08:01:06 PM
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/risperdal.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 11, 2011, 08:15:50 PM
Philoumenos- Now tell us the truth about the Holocaust.

What would you care to know?

Have you studied it?

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/risperdal.jpg)

Yes, yes...

I'm insane, etc. Very nice, thank you.

I don't take any pills though. Not even Aspirin. Those things'll kill ya.

Thanks anyway.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 11, 2011, 09:10:35 PM
I once did volunteer work with children who were mentally ill, it was not easy or "fun", but they are human beings just the same.

How is using the "mental" slur against someone whose views you disagree with any different than using racial or religious slurs? I mean, really? Are mentally ill people the last acceptable group to ridicule? Or is it fat people?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 11, 2011, 09:22:14 PM
OK, time for me to be the little boy who sees that the Emperor is naked.... :D

The reason why so many today bend over backward to sound pro-Jewish (and pro-black), is because they have a dread fear of being thought "racist" or "antisemitic". Apparently, there is nothing worse one can be called....personally I'd rather be called one of those rather than "pedophile", "rapist" or "murderer", but that's just me I guess.

The only facts we know so far is that you're not actually a Christian and he is not actually a Monk.

  

And if you're actually a Christian, why are you lying?
By definition, one can only lie about that which one knows to be true. He can be lying about what he knows to be a fact by stating that he knows more than he really does, but if he doesn't really know whether you're Christian or not, he isn't really lying by stating that you're not, for he simply doesn't know for certain. Again, lying is the act of telling someone the opposite of what the liar knows with certainty to be true. To accuse him of lying is to assert that you know what he knows to be true--in this case, to assert that you know that he knows without a doubt that you are a Christian yet would try to deceive us into believing you aren't. Are you ready to argue that you can read his mind with such certainty as to know exactly what he knows?

What makes you say I'm not a Christian? How do we know you're one? You certainly don't speak like any I ever knew, and I've known some GENUINE Christians.

How are you defining "Christian"? I was baptized a Roman Catholic and am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. My chrismation is set for two weeks from now. And you?  I do think I ask about your conversion story and have yet to see it.
You're not really helping your cause any by launching your own defensive attack against Marc like this. I advise you then to just leave him alone.

My story is in several places on this forum, all one needs to do is read my posts to learn my background. In fact its also listed in my profile info. In fact each post of mine has this under my handle: "Faith: Orthodox catechumen of Jewish and Traditional RC background".


I am a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, but I truly hope that most Orthodox are not like him.

Do us and you a favor and stay with the RCC.

May I quote you to my priest? And yes, he knows my views. He understands why I hold them, too.

Yes indeed..Tell him I said we are all full up with Anti-Semites already and the last thing we need is another one.

The Catholic Church is far larger in the USA. They have more capacity to absorb your little "Story" as you call it without as much damage to their reputation..

 

Trust me when I say that if  I wanted to consult someone to ask if I should continue with my intention to join the Church, you are the absolute last person I would ever consider consulting.

And now, if you don't mind, I won't be reading or replying to any of your posts anymore, unless someone directs my attention to one (as has happened).

Good idea..Because if you asked me I would advise you for your own good and ours to stay clear..

You are feeding vicious Antisemites exactly what they want to hear. You are confirming all their dark little fantasies and unstable paranoia, as if you are some sort of expert with "Inside Information'.. Shame on you.. ( Wagging finger).

So making common cause with bigots would  harm the Church and it's reputation and would thereby harm you too.  
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 11, 2011, 09:22:48 PM
Someone who rants about "Jews controlling the banks and the media" is not exactly batting in the children's chewable aspirin category.

If this board is at the point where vile anti-Semitic screeds are considered more acceptable than making fun of them, it's lost.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 11, 2011, 09:25:30 PM
Quote from: Philoumenos
But there ARE Jews in a conspiracy to rule this earth; to rule OVER the so-called 'Gentiles'.

And THOSE Jews control the majority of the U.S. Congress and Senate, most of the mainstream media, and the Federal Reserve System (of money creation & usury). Go ahead and research into who OWNS the Federal Reserve. See any O' Malleys or  McCormacs on the list?

???  ???  ???
 
(You've got to be kidding me)

Nope. Not kidding.

JEWS THAT RUN THE PRIVATELY-OWNED FEDERAL RESERVE BANK:

1) Ben Shalom Bernanke: Chairman of the Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. Term ends 2020.

2) Donald L. Kohn: Vice Chairman of the Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. Term ends 2016.

3) Randall S. Kroszner: Member of Board of Governors of Federal Reserve.

4) Frederic S. Mishkin: Member of Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. Term ends 2014.

5) Alan Greenspan: Advisor to Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. (Previous) Chairman.

...

THE JEWISH BANKS THAT OWN THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM (List from 2007)

* Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin
* Goldman Sachs Bank of New York
* Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York/Shearson American Express
* Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris
* Israel Moses Sief Banks of Italy
* Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam
* Lehman Brothers Bank of New York (Now defunct)
* Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (David Rockefeller [Crypto-Jew?])

'Federal Reserve Jews Control America' (http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=92)

...

'President Andrew Jackson Vs Jewish Bankers' (http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=99)

'Federal Reserve Articles' (http://www.realzionistnews.com/?cat=83)

Here's a cartoon for those of you that don't like to study and read and have a hard time getting it (*Note the RedSheild*):

'The American Dream' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6OQzH07u0U&feature=related)

With love,
You're welcome.



No cross examination is necessary.....Prosecution rests Your Honor
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 11, 2011, 09:26:47 PM
Everyone take a look at Philoumenos' posts, and then look at SaintIaint's posts... the similarity, not only in content, but in tone, style, and presentation, is uncanny.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 11, 2011, 10:07:50 PM
The spacing, bold text...mon dieu!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 11, 2011, 10:33:32 PM
Speaking personally, I have no interest or knowledge in the "Jews run the banks" issues, or anything of a political nature. My criticisms of Judaism comes from the years I spent as an Orthodox Jew. My complaints are religious, not political.

I also recognized, when I read the New Testament, that the things Jesus Christ and St Paul said about Judaism were true. My issue is religious, not political.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 11, 2011, 11:34:09 PM
Speaking personally, I have no interest or knowledge in the "Jews run the banks" issues, or anything of a political nature. My criticisms of Judaism comes from the years I spent as an Orthodox Jew. My complaints are religious, not political.

I also recognized, when I read the New Testament, that the things Jesus Christ and St Paul said about Judaism were true. My issue is religious, not political.

You have talked extensively about what Jews "really say" behind the backs of Christians. You are feeding nuts to the squirrels.

Find a new hobby.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 11, 2011, 11:47:22 PM
Speaking personally, I have no interest or knowledge in the "Jews run the banks" issues, or anything of a political nature. My criticisms of Judaism comes from the years I spent as an Orthodox Jew. My complaints are religious, not political.

I also recognized, when I read the New Testament, that the things Jesus Christ and St Paul said about Judaism were true. My issue is religious, not political.

You have talked extensively about what Jews "really say" behind the backs of Christians. You are feeding nuts to the squirrels.

Find a new hobby.
Why are Jews spitting in the face of Orthodox priests?
"A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face. "
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 11, 2011, 11:53:14 PM
Speaking personally, I have no interest or knowledge in the "Jews run the banks" issues, or anything of a political nature. My criticisms of Judaism comes from the years I spent as an Orthodox Jew. My complaints are religious, not political.

I also recognized, when I read the New Testament, that the things Jesus Christ and St Paul said about Judaism were true. My issue is religious, not political.

You have talked extensively about what Jews "really say" behind the backs of Christians. You are feeding nuts to the squirrels.

Find a new hobby.
Why are Jews spitting in the face of Orthodox priests?
"A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face. "
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099



I honestly don't know. I do know that Jews tend to have more of a "problem" with the liturgical churches (Orthodox, RC) because they perceive those two churches as having been more antisemitic. Maybe that's why? Also, apart from Rabbenu Tam (France, 15th century), many Orthodox Jews follow the beliefs of the Rambam (Maimonides), who felt that Christians, because of the belief in the Holy Trinity, are polytheists.

As for the Holy Land, I have never been a zionist (not even when I was a religious Jew). I do know that the miltant right wing Jews do not believe nonJews belong in the Holy Land, and they want them to leave (Christians as well as Palestinians). They try to make life there as unpleasant as possible so they will. As Orthodox Christians, I believe the focus should be on protecting the Christians of the Holy Land from this, esp. since many if not most of them are Orthodox.

But things like that really anger me, as do incidents like this (I realize these kids are evidently drunken, but as the old Latin saying goes, "In vino veritas".)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ek5G6337yU&feature=related (Warning: Profane language used_
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: searn77 on July 12, 2011, 12:44:31 AM
I just read this thread and I visited Br. Nathaniel's website. Someone told him about how he was being talked about on this forum (but a different thread) and he responded with the following:

Quote from: Br. Nathaniel

It seems that I inspire in people both great love and great hatred including so-called Orthodox Christians.

St Paul, (though I do not dare compare myself with him), often stated that his enemies were “from within.”

As regards my using the 60 Minute Clips there are tons of clips from 60 Minutes up on YouTube and the “fair use” rule comes into play so I doubt that I will have any problems. YouTube has already offered me “revenue sharing” on this Video so they are well aware of my using the 60 Minutes Clips as are all my viewers.

If this so-called Orthodox Christian wishes to take this Video down then it will be on that person’s head as many have already inquired of me by email expressing keen interest in Orthodoxy and Orthodox monasticism. It would be on that person’s head that many who would write to me in the future would be denied this venue that gives exposure to Orthodoxy. I pity this person if that does happen.

As regards my standing in ROCOR I am a member in good standing of the ROCOR parish in Manhattan, the Cathedral, “Our Lady Of The Sign,” so I doubt that this nasty person will have any luck there in defaming me. Last week I was in Church with Metropolitan Hilarion and Bishop Jerome and took Holy Communion receiving as: “Brother Nathanael” partakes of the Holy Mysteries…

+Brother Nathanael
Orthodox Christian Monastic
ROCOR

http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=643
(If you don't feel like scrolling around on his website to find out where he said this, he replied with this message on July 6, 2011 @ 3:32 am)

I thought I would post this for people wondering about Br. Nathaniel.  I'm not claiming to have any opinions on the issues being discussed or about Br. Nathaniel or anyone else on this forum.  I just was reading this thread, looked at his website to try and find out who he was affiliated with, found this message that he wrote on his website, and I thought I would share it here.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 12, 2011, 12:47:10 AM
Why are Jews spitting in the face of Orthodox priests?
"A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face. "
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

Why do you think that the actions of Jewish inhabitants of Jerusalem (which is a powerkeg where even Muslim and Christian residents can be vitriolic) have any bearing on the millions of Jews worldwide in general?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 12, 2011, 01:02:23 AM
I just read this thread and I visited Br. Nathaniel's website. Someone told him about how he was being talked about on this forum (but a different thread) and he responded with the following:

Quote from: Br. Nathaniel

It seems that I inspire in people both great love and great hatred including so-called Orthodox Christians.

St Paul, (though I do not dare compare myself with him), often stated that his enemies were “from within.”

As regards my using the 60 Minute Clips there are tons of clips from 60 Minutes up on YouTube and the “fair use” rule comes into play so I doubt that I will have any problems. YouTube has already offered me “revenue sharing” on this Video so they are well aware of my using the 60 Minutes Clips as are all my viewers.

If this so-called Orthodox Christian wishes to take this Video down then it will be on that person’s head as many have already inquired of me by email expressing keen interest in Orthodoxy and Orthodox monasticism. It would be on that person’s head that many who would write to me in the future would be denied this venue that gives exposure to Orthodoxy. I pity this person if that does happen.

As regards my standing in ROCOR I am a member in good standing of the ROCOR parish in Manhattan, the Cathedral, “Our Lady Of The Sign,” so I doubt that this nasty person will have any luck there in defaming me. Last week I was in Church with Metropolitan Hilarion and Bishop Jerome and took Holy Communion receiving as: “Brother Nathanael” partakes of the Holy Mysteries…

+Brother Nathanael
Orthodox Christian Monastic
ROCOR

http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=643
(If you don't feel like scrolling around on his website to find out where he said this, he replied with this message on July 6, 2011 @ 3:32 am)

I thought I would post this for people wondering about Br. Nathaniel.  I'm not claiming to have any opinions on the issues being discussed or about Br. Nathaniel or anyone else on this forum.  I just was reading this thread, looked at his website to try and find out who he was affiliated with, found this message that he wrote on his website, and I thought I would share it here.
Thank you for posting this. This will (hopefully) put an end to the multitudes of vicious lies and rumors concerning Br. Nathanael. He is an inspiration for those of us who love righteousness and hate iniquity.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 12, 2011, 01:08:40 AM
Someone who rants about "Jews controlling the banks and the media" is not exactly batting in the children's chewable aspirin category.

I have no idea what mixed metaphor last part of that sentence means, but I did truly laugh out loud.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 12, 2011, 01:11:51 AM
I once did volunteer work with children who were mentally ill, it was not easy or "fun", but they are human beings just the same.

How is using the "mental" slur against someone whose views you disagree with any different than using racial or religious slurs? I mean, really? Are mentally ill people the last acceptable group to ridicule? Or is it fat people?

I like to think it is RC pedophile priests.

And medical advice not necessarily a slur makes. 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 01:38:36 AM
Why are Jews spitting in the face of Orthodox priests?
"A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face. "
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

Why do you think that the actions of Jewish inhabitants of Jerusalem (which is a powerkeg where even Muslim and Christian residents can be vitriolic) have any bearing on the millions of Jews worldwide in general?

Many (not all) Jews worldwide are zionists. And Judaism believes, additionally, that all Jews are responsible for one another. This means that Jews are to help each other, but it also means that the actions of Jews in one place reflect (favorably or unfavorably) on all Jews.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 01:45:17 AM
I once did volunteer work with children who were mentally ill, it was not easy or "fun", but they are human beings just the same.

How is using the "mental" slur against someone whose views you disagree with any different than using racial or religious slurs? I mean, really? Are mentally ill people the last acceptable group to ridicule? Or is it fat people?

I like to think it is RC pedophile priests.

And medical advice not necessarily a slur makes. 

I think it was obvious that it was being used as a slur or insult, not as a genuine suggestion to seek medical help. A genuine suggestion, done out of Christian charity, would have been sent as a private message.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 12, 2011, 02:04:52 AM
I just read this thread and I visited Br. Nathaniel's website. Someone told him about how he was being talked about on this forum (but a different thread) and he responded with the following:

Quote from: Br. Nathaniel

It seems that I inspire in people both great love and great hatred including so-called Orthodox Christians.

St Paul, (though I do not dare compare myself with him), often stated that his enemies were “from within.”

As regards my using the 60 Minute Clips there are tons of clips from 60 Minutes up on YouTube and the “fair use” rule comes into play so I doubt that I will have any problems. YouTube has already offered me “revenue sharing” on this Video so they are well aware of my using the 60 Minutes Clips as are all my viewers.

If this so-called Orthodox Christian wishes to take this Video down then it will be on that person’s head as many have already inquired of me by email expressing keen interest in Orthodoxy and Orthodox monasticism. It would be on that person’s head that many who would write to me in the future would be denied this venue that gives exposure to Orthodoxy. I pity this person if that does happen.

As regards my standing in ROCOR I am a member in good standing of the ROCOR parish in Manhattan, the Cathedral, “Our Lady Of The Sign,” so I doubt that this nasty person will have any luck there in defaming me. Last week I was in Church with Metropolitan Hilarion and Bishop Jerome and took Holy Communion receiving as: “Brother Nathanael” partakes of the Holy Mysteries…

+Brother Nathanael
Orthodox Christian Monastic
ROCOR

http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=643
(If you don't feel like scrolling around on his website to find out where he said this, he replied with this message on July 6, 2011 @ 3:32 am)

I thought I would post this for people wondering about Br. Nathaniel.  I'm not claiming to have any opinions on the issues being discussed or about Br. Nathaniel or anyone else on this forum.  I just was reading this thread, looked at his website to try and find out who he was affiliated with, found this message that he wrote on his website, and I thought I would share it here.

Thanks for this. Good idea.

Someone who rants about "Jews controlling the banks and the media" is not exactly batting in the children's chewable aspirin category.

If this board is at the point where vile anti-Semitic screeds are considered more acceptable than making fun of them, it's lost.

Did you just call me a liar? How Christian of you. Prove it.

Who runs the Fed? What are their names and positions and can I please have a link proving that what you say is the truth?

Thanks.


No cross examination is necessary.....Prosecution rests Your Honor

Has that ever made you feel like you've actually proven something? Or do you just throw it out there in defeat?

Everyone take a look at Philoumenos' posts, and then look at SaintIaint's posts... the similarity, not only in content, but in tone, style, and presentation, is uncanny.

The spacing, bold text...mon dieu!

(http://cdn1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/201/369/590/edison-twins-the-complete-very-rare-c6c23.jpg)

Tom? Annie? Is that you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Edison_Twins

(http://www.rickstv.com/tvo/edison6.jpg)

Seriously?

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 12, 2011, 02:09:58 AM
I agree with a point and now I'm a character on a TV show?  ???
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 12, 2011, 02:16:53 AM
And Judaism believes, additionally, that all Jews are responsible for one another. This means that Jews are to help each other, but it also means that the actions of Jews in one place reflect (favorably or unfavorably) on all Jews.

When Christians from some groups do foolish things, Christians from other groups would readily defend themselves by saying  that Christianity is a highly varied movement and the actions of some do not reflect on all others. Yet we're supposed to assume that every single person calling himself Jewish (even if on the basis of ancestry and not any religious belief) is in utter aggreement with a small group of obnoxious Jews who obey Talmudic revelations?

Quote
Many (not all) Jews worldwide are zionists.

And a great part of those favour the existence of Israel because of its greater sexual freedom/access to drugs/more diverse arts scene/better economy/fewer bureaucratic hassles than the surrounding states. Support for Israel, even among those calling themselves Jews, does not necessarily mean support for any of the religious beliefs of Judaism. As I said, most Israelis I know think that Abrahamic religions are silly and find Jewish traditional beliefs to be horribly quaint.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 12, 2011, 02:17:02 AM

Continued: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2011/07/anti-semite-what-about-anti-goyimite.html


Pretty truthful article.  8)
Why is it truthful? Because it agrees with you?

Would you agree with something that wasnt truthful? No offense, but if you thought the Bible was BS would you be a Christian?

I'll fire back, do you not think it is truthful because you do not agree with it?
I asked the first question here. You will get no answer from me until I get one from you. :)

Obvious questions do not require obvious answers mate.
I'm not your mate, buddy.

Wouldn't it make sense to think something you agree with is truthful?
I'm not saying you agree with it; I'm saying it agrees with you.

BTW, just because you agree with something and therefore think it truthful doesn't mean it is. That's the point I've been trying to make with you. Would you concur that it's possible to agree with a lie?

1) No need to be a jerk. 2) No, I agree with it, hence why I thought it was truthful.... 3) Would you concur that something you think false could be truthful?

From what you are saying is it is not true because you dont agree with it. So by default you are God because you are apparently all knowing. I think it's truthful, yes, but Im not being judgemental if you dont agree with me. You on the other hand, are being extremely rude about all of this.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 12, 2011, 02:17:03 AM
Philoumenos- Now tell us the truth about the Holocaust.

People constantly bring up the Holocaust as a reason not to talk bad about Jews. I'm going to bring up the plight of my Scottish ancestors and the massacre of my aboriginal ancestors, that way you can't talk bad about me either...
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 12, 2011, 02:21:14 AM
People constantly bring up the Holocaust as a reason not to talk bad about Jews.

The poster brought up the Holocaust because Philomenous' dislike of Jews was based on a great amount of factual error, so he quite possibly has some great tales of Holocaust denial to tell us as well.

"Talking bad about Jews" in the sense of identifying challenges to Christian mission among people of Jewish background is fine. Perpetuating falsehoods about Jews is counterproductive.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 12, 2011, 02:33:08 AM
When it comes to "organized Jewry", this is the only kind some people can stand:

(http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1746/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1746-3275.jpg)

And this is from your friendly anti-Zionist, who thinks marc is out to lunch on the issue of Israel. When marc and I agree someone is spouting anti-Jewish nonsense, it has to be pretty bad.



Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 12, 2011, 02:44:41 AM
I agree with a point and now I'm a character on a TV show?  ???

Yes.

Quote from: Wikipedia
"The show focused on the adventures of the main cast as they stumbled onto one problem after another, using Tom and Annie's scientific wit to solve the situation."

:D

Quote
When it comes to "organized Jewry", this is the only kind some people can stand:



And this is from your friendly anti-Zionist, who thinks marc is out to lunch on the issue of Israel. When marc and I agree someone is spouting anti-Jewish nonsense, it has to be pretty bad.

Oh, come now. Let's not be melodramatic.

"If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil."
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 12, 2011, 03:17:32 AM
Why are Jews spitting in the face of Orthodox priests?
"A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face. "
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

Why do you think that the actions of Jewish inhabitants of Jerusalem (which is a powerkeg where even Muslim and Christian residents can be vitriolic) have any bearing on the millions of Jews worldwide in general?
It is not an isolated incident:
"Wearing a dark-blue robe, sitting in St. James’s Church, the main Armenian church in the Old City, Aghoyan said, “Every single priest in this church has been spat on. It happens day and night.”"
http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them/
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 12, 2011, 04:55:28 AM
It is not an isolated incident:
"Wearing a dark-blue robe, sitting in St. James’s Church, the main Armenian church in the Old City, Aghoyan said, “Every single priest in this church has been spat on. It happens day and night.”"
http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them/

I didn't say it was, but these stories are mainly confined to Jerusalem. So, again, how does this have any bearing on the general population of Jews worldwide?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 12, 2011, 05:18:08 AM


(...) Philomenous' dislike of Jews was based on a great amount of factual error,

Perpetuating falsehoods about Jews is counterproductive.


Dislike? I never said anything about dislike. Xenia considers herself a Jew and I like her just fine.

Please detail these "factual errors" and "falsehoods".

It is not an isolated incident:
"Wearing a dark-blue robe, sitting in St. James’s Church, the main Armenian church in the Old City, Aghoyan said, “Every single priest in this church has been spat on. It happens day and night.”"
http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them/

I didn't say it was, but these stories are mainly confined to Jerusalem. So, again, how does this have any bearing on the general population of Jews worldwide?


I'm pretty sure (no one) ever said "Jews in general ______," or "All Jews ________."

...

These statements do not (...) indict ALL Jews, as you infer.



It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, the reply will still be the same. Which part of the above bolded statements are you having trouble comprehending here?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 12, 2011, 06:08:10 AM
Everyone take a look at Philoumenos' posts, and then look at SaintIaint's posts... the similarity, not only in content, but in tone, style, and presentation, is uncanny.

Also, the way he keeps changing his forum titles, so he appears to be saying something 'nice' on the sly.  ::) Does he think we have no memories?

I mean, really. Do he and his friends think the rest of us really buy this "I don't hate Jews, even though I talk in coded anti-Semitic language, I just don't like Zionism" hoohah? For pity's sake!

Have you *ever* met anyone who was not anti-Semitic and at the same time ranted about the Jews controlling the banks and the media?

Ever?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
 ::)

I hate to dignify this kind of cr*p with more attention, but just to give him one chance, here goes.

You know, there are only a few million Jews on the planet. A few.

There are undoubtedly millions upon millions of bank branches.

Unless every single Jewish person on the planet owns several bank branches, and people of other faiths own exactly zero, the 'theory' goes into the toilet.

Where it belongs.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 09:34:29 AM


(...) Philomenous' dislike of Jews was based on a great amount of factual error,

Perpetuating falsehoods about Jews is counterproductive.


Dislike? I never said anything about dislike. Xenia considers herself a Jew and I like her just fine.

Please detail these "factual errors" and "falsehoods".

It is not an isolated incident:
"Wearing a dark-blue robe, sitting in St. James’s Church, the main Armenian church in the Old City, Aghoyan said, “Every single priest in this church has been spat on. It happens day and night.”"
http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them/

I didn't say it was, but these stories are mainly confined to Jerusalem. So, again, how does this have any bearing on the general population of Jews worldwide?


I'm pretty sure (no one) ever said "Jews in general ______," or "All Jews ________."

...

These statements do not (...) indict ALL Jews, as you infer.



It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, the reply will still be the same. Which part of the above bolded statements are you having trouble comprehending here?

Well, actually, I consider myself a Christian of Russian-Jewish (and Italian) heritage. :)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 09:39:52 AM
And Judaism believes, additionally, that all Jews are responsible for one another. This means that Jews are to help each other, but it also means that the actions of Jews in one place reflect (favorably or unfavorably) on all Jews.

When Christians from some groups do foolish things, Christians from other groups would readily defend themselves by saying  that Christianity is a highly varied movement and the actions of some do not reflect on all others. Yet we're supposed to assume that every single person calling himself Jewish (even if on the basis of ancestry and not any religious belief) is in utter aggreement with a small group of obnoxious Jews who obey Talmudic revelations?

Quote
Many (not all) Jews worldwide are zionists.

And a great part of those favour the existence of Israel because of its greater sexual freedom/access to drugs/more diverse arts scene/better economy/fewer bureaucratic hassles than the surrounding states. Support for Israel, even among those calling themselves Jews, does not necessarily mean support for any of the religious beliefs of Judaism. As I said, most Israelis I know think that Abrahamic religions are silly and find Jewish traditional beliefs to be horribly quaint.

I tend to accept what St Paul (who was raised an Orthodox Jew and, like me, knew/knows the real deal) about those Jews who are unconverted. Jesus Christ agreed with these sentiments, as is evidenced by many of the things He said in regard to His (and my) people. Are they antisemites too?

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16


 14 For ye, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judaea in Christ Jesus: for ye also suffered the same things of your own countrymen, even as they did of the Jews;

 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove out us, and pleased not God, and are contrary to all men;

 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved; to fill up their sins always: but the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.


Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 12, 2011, 09:48:11 AM
Well, actually, I consider myself a Christian of Russian-Jewish (and Italian) heritage. :)
Oh. So you're part of the Zionist conspiracy. Clearly from from what you, Philoumenos, Ioannis et al say on this thread, you are not to be trusted.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 09:55:31 AM
Well, actually, I consider myself a Christian of Russian-Jewish (and Italian) heritage. :)
Oh. So you're part of the Zionist conspiracy. Clearly from from what you, Philoumenos, Ioannis et al say on this thread, you are not to be trusted.

Based on what he has written (which is all I know of him), his problem is with Jews who have not sincerely accepted Christ. And if they have sincerely accepted Christ, they are no longer Jews by religion.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 12, 2011, 10:01:28 AM
I tend to accept what St Paul (who was raised an Orthodox Jew and, like me, knew/knows the real deal) about those Jews who are unconverted. Jesus Christ agreed with these sentiments, as is evidenced by many of the things He said in regard to His (and my) people. Are they antisemites too?

The Scriptures (and certain later patristic statements) speak about people who were Jews in the sense that they believed in the Jewish religion. However, most people who call themselves Jews nowadays do not believe in the religion and relating to them requires a different strategy.

Christianity bothered the Jews of antiquity and it bothers today's religious Jews because it claims, among other things, that God is one in three persons and Christ is God incarnate. However, many contemporary Jews could care less about some sacred oneness of God and in fact believe that there is no God, or that Indian spirituality gets closer to the right idea about God. Why would you form a policy about a group of people on the basis of the beliefs of a different group of people?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: ozgeorge on July 12, 2011, 10:01:43 AM
Well, actually, I consider myself a Christian of Russian-Jewish (and Italian) heritage. :)
Oh. So you're part of the Zionist conspiracy. Clearly from from what you, Philoumenos, Ioannis et al say on this thread, you are not to be trusted.

Based on what he has written (which is all I know of him), his problem is with Jews who have not sincerely accepted Christ. And if they have sincerely accepted Christ, they are no longer Jews by religion.
That's just what you want us to believe. You can't fool me, I've read all the conspiracy theory websites recommended on this thread. I know the real truth.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 10:24:20 AM
I tend to accept what St Paul (who was raised an Orthodox Jew and, like me, knew/knows the real deal) about those Jews who are unconverted. Jesus Christ agreed with these sentiments, as is evidenced by many of the things He said in regard to His (and my) people. Are they antisemites too?

The Scriptures (and certain later patristic statements) speak about people who were Jews in the sense that they believed in the Jewish religion. However, most people who call themselves Jews nowadays do not believe in the religion and relating to them requires a different strategy.

Christianity bothered the Jews of antiquity and it bothers today's religious Jews because it claims, among other things, that God is one in three persons and Christ is God incarnate. However, many contemporary Jews could care less about some sacred oneness of God and in fact believe that there is no God, or that Indian spirituality gets closer to the right idea about God. Why would you form a policy about a group of people on the basis of the beliefs of a different group of people?

From my perspective, as someone whose direct personal experience with other Jews has really only been with the religious (meaning Orthodox Jewish) variety, I suppose using your understanding I could say that what the Scriptures and the Early Church Fathers said about Jews would hold true then.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 12, 2011, 11:26:18 AM
Speaking personally, I have no interest or knowledge in the "Jews run the banks" issues, or anything of a political nature. My criticisms of Judaism comes from the years I spent as an Orthodox Jew. My complaints are religious, not political.

I also recognized, when I read the New Testament, that the things Jesus Christ and St Paul said about Judaism were true. My issue is religious, not political.

You have talked extensively about what Jews "really say" behind the backs of Christians. You are feeding nuts to the squirrels.

Find a new hobby.
Why are Jews spitting in the face of Orthodox priests?
"A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face. "
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099



There are nuts in all religions as we can see right here in this forum.

I think it would be more of a concern if all Israeli's or a large number were spitting on Priests. This is a phenomena of a very few Ultradox.  

Have you ever been spit on because of your religion? I have.. I think there is far more "Spitting" going on right here.

Ever been roughed up because of your religion? I have..

Ever been denied public accommodation ( denied a room at a hotel or restaurant) due to your religion? I have.

Ever see I covenant in a Home Mortgage that said the place couldn't be sold to you because of your religion?  I have.



When I was in Middle School there were only a handful of Jews at the school. We had to sit together at lunch for protection. Every single day penny's would rain down on us. Ever day,every year I was there... The locals would drop a penny in the hall to see if we would pick it up, at which point if you did ( just to vex them) you would likely get kicked..

I could go on..
 

So .. ya know... Clean up your own house before worrying too much about what the nutty Ultradox are doing in Israel.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 12:08:32 PM
I usually don't get into the antisemitism I have experienced in life, because it tends to make a person look like a whiner. I don't like when blacks do it, or when any other group does it, so I try not to do it either. I have little patience with cards, be they race, gender or religion.

But lest anyone think I have never endured antisemitism, I can tell you that when I was 10, I was severely beaten by a group of Irish Roman Catholic schoolgirls from the local parochial school, because "you killed Our Lord" (to this day I shrink internally whenever a RC friend innocently refers to Christ as "Our Lord"--I much prefer "The Lord" probably for that reason). It is a miracle that I ended up becoming a RC, but I did so based on what my Italian RC relatives had told me about the church; if those Irish girls had been my only experience, I doubt I would have become RC...fortunately I had the Catholic relatives on one side of my family to balance things out.

In junior high, a black Baptist student decided to organize a group to pick on me because I was Jewish. She would ridicule me for being Jewish, until one day, I looked her up in the phone book, learned her father's name was Theophilus, and told the other kids about it. Then she turned into the one being teased. :)

Once I found a pork chop strategically placed right under my locker. Hmm.

I was not the only Jewish kid to endure this; there were a few others too who did, but since most of the other Orthodox Jewish kids were in yeshivot (usually just boys), the girls had to attend public school (this was in the days before we had many Orthodox Jewish day schools).

But, there have also been experiences from other Jews, ones which I found very offensive. Because half my family is Italian RC and half is Orthodox Jewish, I've had a lifetime to see how each side thinks and talk about others. I never once heard a single antisemitic comment from any of my Italian sides many relatives. Not even one, amazing when you consider they left the church right after V2 and did not benefit from the "we love the Jews now" theology so in vogue in the RCC since V2.

However, on the Jewish end of things, I heard MANY comments, even directed toward my mother, a convert to Orthodox Judaism, whose level of Jewish religious observancy often put born Jews to shame. Yet they still would call her "shiksa" (derogatory term for Gentile women.)

My husband is not Jewish, and we currently live in an Orthodox Jewish community (not because its Jewish but for other reasons). I cannot tell you how many derogatory comments have been made to my face, because I chose to marry a nonJew...and not so much from the Orthodox Jews but from the non-Orthodox Jews, amazingly.

I have a neighbor who is not especially observant, but sees anti-Christian sentiment as his way to show his Jewishness. I had to stop associating with him because it was making me sick, especially his comments about "the Christian man-god" as he calls Christ. He had a bornagain Christian friend who was always giving him money when he was down on his louck, yet he still badmouthed his friend's religion to me.

My late aunt (obm) once called me in tears because RC schoolgirls came to her door, asking if they could clean her house or run errands for her. She asked them why, and they told her that their religion teaches them to do the works of mercy. She was crying on the phone to me, and said, "The goyim (Gentiles) treat me better than my own people!" I knew what she was talking about.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 12, 2011, 12:25:22 PM
I tend to accept what St Paul (who was raised an Orthodox Jew and, like me, knew/knows the real deal) about those Jews who are unconverted. Jesus Christ agreed with these sentiments, as is evidenced by many of the things He said in regard to His (and my) people. Are they antisemites too?

The Scriptures (and certain later patristic statements) speak about people who were Jews in the sense that they believed in the Jewish religion. However, most people who call themselves Jews nowadays do not believe in the religion and relating to them requires a different strategy.

Christianity bothered the Jews of antiquity and it bothers today's religious Jews because it claims, among other things, that God is one in three persons and Christ is God incarnate. However, many contemporary Jews could care less about some sacred oneness of God and in fact believe that there is no God, or that Indian spirituality gets closer to the right idea about God. Why would you form a policy about a group of people on the basis of the beliefs of a different group of people?

From my perspective, as someone whose direct personal experience with other Jews has really only been with the religious (meaning Orthodox Jewish) variety, I suppose using your understanding I could say that what the Scriptures and the Early Church Fathers said about Jews would hold true then.

I used to work at a Kosher Restaurant ( Glut Kosher which means very strict observance). There was a "Mashgiach" a man who specializes in what is Kosher on full time staff. This was in the 1970's when such places were very rare. The Orthodox could never go out to eat until this place opened up. I was in contact with Orthodox Jews every single day.

My brother was Barmitzvohed at an Orthodox Temple and was tutored by an Orthodox Rabbi.

My mother-in law lived in an Orthodox neighborhood in Baltimore where my wife grew up. We were there all the time and knew the Orthodox neighbors..

I have never had the experience Xenia is yacking about.. That is not to say that there are not low minded people in all groups who may be bigots, but I assure you the topic of Christianity or Christians was rare to never.. Only if there was some sort of incident like a Temple being vandalized did anyone comment...

Now if you are talking about common humor: "A Rabbi, a Priest and the Dali Lama were in a rowboat together..." sort of thing, then of course. But I never heard one vicious comment about Christians and I never understood the term Goy or The Goyum to be anything but an ultra-lite pejorative term.. The saying:" Shikshas are for practice" ( female Gentile) is about a viscous as I ever heard.

How often is Jesus or Christians or Christianity mentioned in Worship Services at the Synagogue? Zero..Never.. Not done...Ever

On the other hand, how many times are Jew's mentioned in our own Orthodox Christian Services...Dozens, right? The Jews this, the Jews that, the blind Jews, the iniquitous Jews....... Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews.... Almost obsessively.

I dont see anti-Gentileism if there is such a term.. I have see defensiveness and fear but to the great  credit of the Jewish Community their social and political activism proves beyond any doubt their open mindedness.

Jews have the Economic and Social Profile of Episcopalians and but have a Voting Profile of Blacks. They have participated in every Progressive Social Movement in the USA most notably the Civil Rights Movement. How many of us would have been willing to go into the  Jim Crow South and risk life and limb? Jews were disproportionately active in the Civil Rights movement often being jailed, gassed or beaten to a bloody pulp. That is hardly the action of people who are "Anti-Gentile"..    

Just recently during the Darfur genocide you couldn't drive past a Synagogue in my Town ( Washington DC) without seeing a banner out front, "Save Darfur"..

Nearly all Jews have now obtained middle class economic security or better in the USA but they still champion the cause of the poor and oppressed, nearly all of whom are Gentiles, by last count..

Sooo..........  Get real.


Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut". Glatt kosher means the meat is extra perfect, no imperfections, no adhesions to the inner organs, and the like. Its basically "superkosher", and is not required, but the very Orthodox insist upon it. Its along the same lines as "chalav Yisroel" dairy products (which means religious Jews were involved in the entire process of manufacturing, from the milking of the cow to the processing of it into packages.) "Chalav Yisroel" basically means, "Jewish milk". (The very Orthodox refuse to eat anything prepared by Gentiles for fear of religious contamination.)

The "mashgiach" is, yes, a kosher supervisor. I just wanted to make sure no one confuses that with "Mashiach", which sounds very similar and is the Hebrew word for "anointed one", as in "Messiah".

Orthodox Jews do not call their synagogues "Temples". That is a word invented by reform Jews (the most religiously liberal of all Jews). An Orthodox Jew will refer to his house of worship as a "shul", which is actually Yiddish for "room"...because many of the first Orthodox shuls in this country met in storefronts, often no bigger than a large room. The shul I grew up going to as a child was very much like this.

Secular and reform Jews are the Jews who become involved in liberal political causes. Orthodox Jews generally have not, and do not, incidentally. Considering the deplorable state the country is in today, with everyone at each other's throats over racial divisiveness,I don't know if that form of activism is something anyone should be proud of because it led to where we are today. Orthodox Jews tend to be very politically conservative, and they are the Jews who for the most part have to live in big cities due to the fact that they cannot drive to shul, but must walk, due to Sabbath prohibitions. As a result, they are often victims of inner city crime. The liberal Jews, who are the ones who espouse liberal causes and civil rights causes, often tend to live in safe, non inner city areas where they don't have to be affected by the consequences of their activism.

I forget if there were any other errors, but those jumped out at me the most.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 12:48:31 PM

On the other hand, how many times are Jew's mentioned in our own Orthodox Christian Services...Dozens, right? The Jews this, the Jews that, the blind Jews, the iniquitous Jews....... Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews.... Almost obsessively.



So, if this bothers you (and it clearly does), what made you become an Orthodox Christian, specifically ROCOR (which is known for being the most conservative, and probably contains the most of the Orthodox who are critical of Jews)? Not only that, but Russian monarchists (not known for their love of Bolsheviks, who were often of Jewish birth) tend to belong to ROCOR, and ROCOR was the first RO jurisdiction to canonize Tsar Nicholas II and his family as Passion Bearers (and I'm sure you know how most Jews of our grandparents generation felt about the one they called "Bloody Nicholas")...it just seems strange, with your very pro-Jewish views, that ROCOR is where you would end up....

You see, I've been a student of Russian history for most of my life, and have always admired greatly Tsar Nicholas II and especially his children. In fact my last child was given the middle name of Anastasia, after the Tsar's youngest daughter, in her honor. I was perhaps the only Jew who woke up in the middle of the night to watch the burial of the Royal Family on TV in 1998. I own just about every book ever published about the Romanovs, and have an icon of the PassionBearers in my icon corner, an icon I first bought in 1999.

But then again, I'm not on here saying how great Jews are, or praising everything Jews do either.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 12, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Because that's obviously the only facet of ROCOR?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 12:54:25 PM
Because that's obviously the only facet of ROCOR?

Oh, I agree, its not. But it just seems rather.....odd, that someone who holds views as strongly as he does on all things Jewish, would end up there. Its sort of like a Jewish convert to Roman Catholicism who is very pro-Jews and pro-Jewish, joining a Traditionalist Latin Mass organization (they also have a reputation for anti-Judaism.) Some of the Traditionalist RC groups were and are not in communion with Rome due to their extreme traditional views, just as ROCOR also was not in communion with the other Orthodox until 2007 for similar reasons.

Just seems....curious.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Poppy on July 12, 2011, 03:06:51 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 12, 2011, 04:22:59 PM

On the other hand, how many times are Jew's mentioned in our own Orthodox Christian Services...Dozens, right? The Jews this, the Jews that, the blind Jews, the iniquitous Jews....... Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews.... Almost obsessively.



So, if this bothers you (and it clearly does), what made you become an Orthodox Christian, specifically ROCOR (which is known for being the most conservative, and probably contains the most of the Orthodox who are critical of Jews)? Not only that, but Russian monarchists (not known for their love of Bolsheviks, who were often of Jewish birth) tend to belong to ROCOR, and ROCOR was the first RO jurisdiction to canonize Tsar Nicholas II and his family as Passion Bearers (and I'm sure you know how most Jews of our grandparents generation felt about the one they called "Bloody Nicholas")...it just seems strange, with your very pro-Jewish views, that ROCOR is where you would end up....

You see, I've been a student of Russian history for most of my life, and have always admired greatly Tsar Nicholas II and especially his children. In fact my last child was given the middle name of Anastasia, after the Tsar's youngest daughter, in her honor. I was perhaps the only Jew who woke up in the middle of the night to watch the burial of the Royal Family on TV in 1998. I own just about every book ever published about the Romanovs, and have an icon of the PassionBearers in my icon corner, an icon I first bought in 1999.

But then again, I'm not on here saying how great Jews are, or praising everything Jews do either.



Clearly I am at peace with the Orthodox Service.. I rarely miss one. Leaving for Vigil in about an hour as a matter of fact. The point is that it is hypocritical to call Jews Anti-Gentile..

Are you really shocked that mixed marriages get some flak? I have no doubt that you and others have faced scorn and that scorn can be of a Jewish variety.

Do you think if someone living in  a Heavy Duty Greek Community marries  a Jew the same would not occur? I bet it would.

If someone living in a close knit Russian Community or a Serb Community married a Jew, do you think they would have a tough time too? I do.

Orthodox Jewish communities are very close knit. They often live in a Ghetto-like neighborhood so they are insulated from The World a bit and have easy access to the Synagogue and Rabbi. They must walk there after all.. So if someone goes out of the community and marries a non-Jew they are going to have a hard road..Same with Greeks, Blacks, Serbs.... most any close knit ethnic/religious community.

But what you have done is to throw red meat in front of hate-filled Anti-Semites, making common cause with them and feeding their delusions.

Very shameful..Cut it out..

 We all suffer. It's a fallen World.  Get over it before you do more harm.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 12, 2011, 04:30:30 PM
Because that's obviously the only facet of ROCOR?

Oh, I agree, its not. But it just seems rather.....odd, that someone who holds views as strongly as he does on all things Jewish, would end up there. Its sort of like a Jewish convert to Roman Catholicism who is very pro-Jews and pro-Jewish, joining a Traditionalist Latin Mass organization (they also have a reputation for anti-Judaism.) Some of the Traditionalist RC groups were and are not in communion with Rome due to their extreme traditional views, just as ROCOR also was not in communion with the other Orthodox until 2007 for similar reasons.

Just seems....curious.

Excuse me? You don't know what you are talking about. You don't know me or my religious background. I dont take Antisemites lightly. That hardly excludes me from Rocor. 

My God Father is Chinese, my God Mother Southern Baptist, my current Priest was an Anglican and the other Priest I confess to sometimes at the Cathedral is Black.... Welcome to America

Man..you really shoot from the hip.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 12, 2011, 05:01:00 PM
Have you ever been spit on because of your religion? I have.. I think there is far more "Spitting" going on right here.

Ever been roughed up because of your religion? I have..

Ever been denied public accommodation ( denied a room at a hotel or restaurant) due to your religion? I have.

Ever see I covenant in a Home Mortgage that said the place couldn't be sold to you because of your religion?  I have.



Or maybe it is because they didn't like you as a person...

So what you are saying is, because you were treated unfairly you have the right to promote Jewish Supremacy? You are doing to non-jews EXACTLY what they did to you. Sure you didnt convert to Islam?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Poppy on July 12, 2011, 05:11:38 PM
Because that's obviously the only facet of ROCOR?

Oh, I agree, its not. But it just seems rather.....odd, that someone who holds views as strongly as he does on all things Jewish, would end up there. Its sort of like a Jewish convert to Roman Catholicism who is very pro-Jews and pro-Jewish, joining a Traditionalist Latin Mass organization (they also have a reputation for anti-Judaism.) Some of the Traditionalist RC groups were and are not in communion with Rome due to their extreme traditional views, just as ROCOR also was not in communion with the other Orthodox until 2007 for similar reasons.

Just seems....curious.

Excuse me? You don't know what you are talking about. You don't know me or my religious background. I dont take Antisemites lightly. That hardly excludes me from Rocor. 

My God Father is Chinese, my God Mother Southern Baptist, my current Priest was an Anglican and the other Priest I confess to sometimes at the Cathedral is Black.... Welcome to America

Man..you really shoot from the hip.

Got any gay friends?? i have one you can borrow  ;)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 12, 2011, 05:12:22 PM
Since Marc thinks Jews are the only group of people that are persecuted, here's some of my ancestors:

(http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/17/1738/2JY3D00Z/posters/phiz-kinnaister-and-his-fellow-convicts-murder-aborigines-in-new-south-wales.jpg)

And no...they arent black.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 12, 2011, 05:13:56 PM
Everyone take a look at Philoumenos' posts, and then look at SaintIaint's posts... the similarity, not only in content, but in tone, style, and presentation, is uncanny.

Also, the way he keeps changing his forum titles, so he appears to be saying something 'nice' on the sly.  ::) Does he think we have no memories?

I mean, really. Do he and his friends think the rest of us really buy this "I don't hate Jews, even though I talk in coded anti-Semitic language, I just don't like Zionism" hoohah? For pity's sake!

Have you *ever* met anyone who was not anti-Semitic and at the same time ranted about the Jews controlling the banks and the media?

Ever?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
 ::)

I hate to dignify this kind of cr*p with more attention, but just to give him one chance, here goes.

You know, there are only a few million Jews on the planet. A few.

There are undoubtedly millions upon millions of bank branches.

Unless every single Jewish person on the planet owns several bank branches, and people of other faiths own exactly zero, the 'theory' goes into the toilet.

Where it belongs.

What are you all junior detectives around here? What's my IP? What's my email? Call the ADL!

Apparently you all think I'm Saint Iaint?

Why should I answer your ridiculous assertion? You never responded to or even acknowledged mine.

Tell me:  Who does run the Federal Reserve? You basically inferred that I am crazy, offering me some of your pills but you haven't proven that as I asked you to. Now you think you can just carry on as if you have proven it? Uh uh.

You guys have turned this into a thread which seems to presuppose that I have a problem with ALL Jews - when I've made it quite clear that is not the case. But still you carry on in that vein! Nevermind ALL JEWS. Right now we're only talking about specifics: Who OWNS and RUNS the United States Federal Reserve? I'll respond fully to you when you respond to me. Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

Who creates money out of thin air at taxpayer expense at the Fed? Forget any other question for now. You want to call me crazy? PROVE IT I SAID!

(Here, I'll throw you a little bone regarding your question: Individual Bank branches are OWNED by the parent bank. They have Bank Managers.)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 12, 2011, 05:23:36 PM
Because that's obviously the only facet of ROCOR?

Oh, I agree, its not. But it just seems rather.....odd, that someone who holds views as strongly as he does on all things Jewish, would end up there. Its sort of like a Jewish convert to Roman Catholicism who is very pro-Jews and pro-Jewish, joining a Traditionalist Latin Mass organization (they also have a reputation for anti-Judaism.) Some of the Traditionalist RC groups were and are not in communion with Rome due to their extreme traditional views, just as ROCOR also was not in communion with the other Orthodox until 2007 for similar reasons.

Just seems....curious.

Excuse me? You don't know what you are talking about. You don't know me or my religious background. I dont take Antisemites lightly. That hardly excludes me from Rocor. 

My God Father is Chinese, my God Mother Southern Baptist, my current Priest was an Anglican and the other Priest I confess to sometimes at the Cathedral is Black.... Welcome to America

Man..you really shoot from the hip.

Got any gay friends?? i have one you can borrow  ;)

*RIM SHOT* You are on fire.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 12, 2011, 06:06:40 PM
The conspiracy types here like to post almost entirely in Free-for-All and the private fora. Not just the occasional thread, but the majority of their posts. There's a reason for that. Those sections are seldom regulated (not a criticism, just a fact).

That right there tells you quite a bit.  ::)

There still are some really interesting individuals  :P who think there was no flight to the Moon and the whole thing was faked. One of them came up to John Glenn and started to bother him. John punched him right in the face.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 06:15:21 PM
Since Marc thinks Jews are the only group of people that are persecuted, here's some of my ancestors:

(http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/17/1738/2JY3D00Z/posters/phiz-kinnaister-and-his-fellow-convicts-murder-aborigines-in-new-south-wales.jpg)

And no...they arent black.

Thanks for that (and your other post as well, you took the thoughts right out of my head!)

Some minority groups tend toward self-absorption, in thinking they are the only ones who have ever suffered. Another reason why, although I technically belong to several minority groups, I don't get into the "we've suffered so much therefore let us do and say what we want" thing.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 06:16:26 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

The only real difference is between Ashkenazi and Sephardi pronunciation, neither of which pronounce "glatt" as "glut".
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 12, 2011, 06:17:39 PM
I don't get into the "we've suffered so much" thing.

There's a multi-page thread you started that says otherwise.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 06:19:10 PM
I don't get into the "we've suffered so much" thing.

There's a multi-page thread you started that says otherwise.

I'm referring to ethnic and racial minorities, not religious disagreements or questions.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 12, 2011, 06:36:46 PM
How often is Jesus or Christians or Christianity mentioned in Worship Services at the Synagogue? Zero..Never.. Not done...
Well, I don't know how you define worship service. But
I was at a reformed Jewish service and Christianity was mentioned once by a member of the congregation and Jesus was mentioned once by the rabbi. Maybe this was not technically part of the worship service, but still it was during the time scheduled for the service. The members of the congregation were asked to introduce themselves and one member said she was from a mixed family, one member Jewish and the other Christian. However, she considered herself Jewish, even though her family members were practicing Catholics.
At the end, the rabbi said that a Jew cannot believe in Jesus.
This was a very minor part of the whole discussion, and it was very respectful, but still it did take place.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 12, 2011, 06:38:06 PM
The conspiracy types here like to post almost entirely in Free-for-All and the private fora. Not just the occasional thread, but the majority of their posts. There's a reason for that. Those sections are seldom regulated (not a criticism, just a fact).

That right there tells you quite a bit.  ::)

There still are some really interesting individuals  :P who think there was no flight to the Moon and the whole thing was faked. One of them came up to John Glenn and started to bother him. John punched him right in the face.

I noticed you didn't answer me. Why? Because facts can't be refuted - only ridiculed.

(http://christconquers.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/fail2.jpg)

This thread was moved here to the 'Free-for-all' area (and given a provocative and inaccurate title of "Jew Bashing") from a thread about the destruction of Orthodox Christian sites in Jerusalem by the Jewish state.

Oh and the 'Free-for-all' section is specifically for "Discussion of hot topics that may be of a polemical nature"... You think that might have anything to do with it?

(http://christconquers.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/screenshot.png)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 06:43:48 PM
How often is Jesus or Christians or Christianity mentioned in Worship Services at the Synagogue? Zero..Never.. Not done...
This is an outright lie.
I was at a reformed Jewish service and Christianity was mentioned once by a member of the congregation and Jesus was mentioned once by the rabbi.
The members of the congregation were asked to introduce themselves and one member said she was from a mixed family, one member Jewish and the other Christian. However, she considered herself Jewish, even though her family members were practicing Catholics.
At the end, the rabbi said that a Jew cannot believe in Jesus.
This was a very minor part of the whole discussion, and it was very respectful, but still it did take place.

I have sat through MANY Orthodox Jewish services...Shacharis, Mincha, Maariv, Yom Kippur, Rosh haShanah, Sukkos, Simchas Torah...ALL of them...in the course of my life, since childhood. And not once did I ever hear Jesus mentioned, for the good or for the bad. There are parts in the service where the WORD "yeshua" is used, but it simply means "salvation".


Now, granted, in the Orthodox Shacharis service (morning), there is a prayer against minim (heretics), and I know some have claimed that means Christians, but it doesn't really. Not GENTILES who become Christians, anyway. It did include JEWS who had become Christians, but it actually means ANYONE who is Jewish and joins ANY other nonJewish religion.

As for the non-Orthodox Jewish sects, I have no ides what they do since I've never been in one of their places of worship.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 12, 2011, 06:46:47 PM
How often is Jesus or Christians or Christianity mentioned in Worship Services at the Synagogue? Zero..Never.. Not done...
This is an outright lie.
I was at a reformed Jewish service and Christianity was mentioned once by a member of the congregation and Jesus was mentioned once by the rabbi.
The members of the congregation were asked to introduce themselves and one member said she was from a mixed family, one member Jewish and the other Christian. However, she considered herself Jewish, even though her family members were practicing Catholics.
At the end, the rabbi said that a Jew cannot believe in Jesus.
This was a very minor part of the whole discussion, and it was very respectful, but still it did take place.

I have sat through MANY Orthodox Jewish services...Shacharis, Mincha, Maariv, Yom Kippur, Rosh haShanah, Sukkos, Simchas Torah...ALL of them...in the course of my life, since childhood. And not once did I ever hear Jesus mentioned, for the good or for the bad. There are parts in the service where the WORD "yeshua" is used, but it simply means "salvation".


Now, granted, in the Orthodox Shacharit service (morning), there is a prayer against minim (heretics), and I know some have claimed that means Christians, but it doesn't really. Not GENTILES who become Christians, anyway. It did include JEWS who had become Christians, but it actually means ANYONE who is Jewish and joins ANY other nonJewish religion.

As for the non-Orthodox Jewish sects, I have no ides what they do since I've never been in one of their places of worship.
I changed the statement, after you had quoted it here, since I don't know if the discussion I referred to was technically part of the worship service, although it was during the time scheduled for such. And it was in a Reformed Jewish house of worship. Obviously this would not be an Orthodox Jewish service.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 12, 2011, 06:49:27 PM
I didn't waste time 'refuting' Philoumenos' 'theory' for the same reason my Astronomy professor never dealt with the claims that the Moon is made out of green cheese.

There is no need to refute something that was never true in the first place. B.S. stands self-refuted.

 ::)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 12, 2011, 06:53:52 PM

Tell me:  Who does run the Federal Reserve?
WHITE PEOPLE!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Philoumenos on July 12, 2011, 07:00:43 PM

Tell me:  Who does run the Federal Reserve?
WHITE PEOPLE!

Names, positions?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 12, 2011, 07:05:05 PM
Um, everyone on the Fed Board is white. They are clearly keeping blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans from having any access to the banks.

Three of them are women, actually. Pretty sweet. So, white women.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 12, 2011, 07:10:35 PM
I didn't waste time 'refuting' Philoumenos' 'theory' for the same reason my Astronomy professor never dealt with the claims that the Moon is made out of green cheese.

There is no need to refute something that was never true in the first place. B.S. stands self-refuted.

 ::)

That is a pretty nonsensical statement. How can you refute something that is true? The only refutable things are the falsities. I suspect that what you meant to say was "I have never read about or researched the subjects you are talking about and am quite frustrated that I can't prove you wrong". Don't to feel to bad, however. The vast majority of us were brainwashed at a young age. In fact, I used to think exactly like you do. It's time, however, to wake up and come to grips with the harsh reality.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 12, 2011, 07:13:43 PM
I maintain that the only thing Philoumenos does with his rambling conspiracy posts is embarrass himself.

It's sad.

What I meant to say is exactly what I said.


Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Tallitot on July 12, 2011, 07:45:55 PM
Oh? I guess you've got "the majority of Jews" in your kitchen over there with you do you?

It's well documented that even in Israel, the "Jewish state", 80% of people identifying as Jews are secular and generally do not care for the Talmud, the object of study of the disparaged Orthodox Jewish minority.

Or at least that's what they want you to think. Regardless. It's a Talmudic culture; it's a worldview:

'Feeling the Hate in Jerusalem' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqMTEKmlzc8) by Max Blumenthal (PROFANITY)

Listen to the guy give out a fake Auschwitz number... Ha!

Quote
Here's a quote for you:

“Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes the laws.” (http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/mayer_amschel_rothschild_quote_8bed)

Quote
Again, even if this quote were authentic (and there's no primary sources for it -- The Creature from Jekyll Island is book from 1998 written by a conspiracy theorist and published by a non-academic press), how does it support the idea of a global conspiracy of "the Jews"?

Really?

Maybe you should look into the history of the Rothschilds (RedShields) and their ilk around the world in recent history a little first.

Yeah. I think so.
Funny thing is the anti-Obama rants in the video are the same thing you'd hear in a bar here in VA
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 12, 2011, 07:47:11 PM
This thread makes me really want a drink.  ;) :D
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 12, 2011, 09:03:34 PM
Because that's obviously the only facet of ROCOR?

Oh, I agree, its not. But it just seems rather.....odd, that someone who holds views as strongly as he does on all things Jewish, would end up there. Its sort of like a Jewish convert to Roman Catholicism who is very pro-Jews and pro-Jewish, joining a Traditionalist Latin Mass organization (they also have a reputation for anti-Judaism.) Some of the Traditionalist RC groups were and are not in communion with Rome due to their extreme traditional views, just as ROCOR also was not in communion with the other Orthodox until 2007 for similar reasons.

Just seems....curious.

Excuse me? You don't know what you are talking about. You don't know me or my religious background. I dont take Antisemites lightly. That hardly excludes me from Rocor. 

My God Father is Chinese, my God Mother Southern Baptist, my current Priest was an Anglican and the other Priest I confess to sometimes at the Cathedral is Black.... Welcome to America

Man..you really shoot from the hip.

Got any gay friends?? i have one you can borrow  ;)

Actually my only brother is Gay.. Maybe we can introduce them.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 12, 2011, 09:17:34 PM
And one more thing ( then we can start drinking).

It's interesting how you (Xenia) think because Rocor is considered strict or Traditional that it is further away from Judaism.

Judaism and Orthodox Christianity are not at two opposite poles. Your wrong assumption may be that the more Orthodox Christian you are, the less you share commonalities with Judaism. Just the opposite is more likely the case. The more Protestant-like you are,  the less similar to Judaism. 

The fact is that Christianity is organically linked to Judaism. The more Traditional your piety the more the two resemble each other.
You may be visiting a more Modernist Orthodox Church, I dont know. But the more Traditionalist you get the more the Church and Synagogue look like each other...It only stands to reason that they would. They are strikingly similar in term of Ethos. That is not to ignore the life and death seriousness of our Theological differences.

Okay..I'm done now.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: akimori makoto on July 12, 2011, 09:21:29 PM
This thread makes me really want a drink.  ;) :D

I'm down.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 12, 2011, 09:28:21 PM
I took a look at the Forbes 400 top Wealthiest Americans. I could pick out six or seven Jewish names.

If you looked into the 30 or 40 top Insurance Companies how many CEO's are Jews?
If you looked into the top 30 or 40 banks, how many CEO's are Jews?
If you looked into the top 30 or 40 Largest Corporations, how may CEO's are Jews?

answer: Only a few. however I bet most are Protestants.. Is there a Protestant Conspiracy because they control so much wealth and power? Do they communicate with each other and have a secret agenda....?

Of course not. Ridiculous.. Just because there are some powerful Jewish Bankers or Bushiness People or there are Jews in our Government does not mean there is a World Wide Conspiracy. I think you will find that Jewish Capitalists serve the interests of their Class just like all the rest of the Mega Rich most of whom are not Jews.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Poppy on July 12, 2011, 10:55:31 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

The only real difference is between Ashkenazi and Sephardi pronunciation, neither of which pronounce "glatt" as "glut".

yeah thas why i didn't say "pronounce" i said transliterate
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 12, 2011, 11:19:24 PM
And one more thing ( then we can start drinking).

It's interesting how you (Xenia) think because Rocor is considered strict or Traditional that it is further away from Judaism.

Judaism and Orthodox Christianity are not at two opposite poles. Your wrong assumption may be that the more Orthodox Christian you are, the less you share commonalities with Judaism. Just the opposite is more likely the case. The more Protestant-like you are,  the less similar to Judaism.  

The fact is that Christianity is organically linked to Judaism. The more Traditional your piety the more the two resemble each other.
You may be visiting a more Modernist Orthodox Church, I dont know. But the more Traditionalist you get the more the Church and Synagogue look like each other...It only stands to reason that they would. They are strikingly similar in term of Ethos. That is not to ignore the life and death seriousness of our Theological differences.

Okay..I'm done now.

No, I did not say that because ROCOR is stricter they are further from Judaism. I never said or meant that. I was simply referring to the fact that ROCOR has long been a haven for Russian monarchists and others, who often tend to dislike Bolsheviks, many of whom, in Russia, were of Jewish birth. And knowing of the deep hatred many Russian Jews of the time had for Tsar Nicholas II (and ROCOR canonized them as Passion bearers), I couldn't see why a Jew *who still maintains a deep obvious attachment to his Jewish heritage* would feel comfortable there. Like I said previously, it would be like a Jewish convert *who maintains a very deep connection to his Jewish heritage* becoming involved with something like the sedevacantist wing of the Traditionalist RC movement, which has a long history of attracting and harboring people who don't like Jews and believe in Jewish conspiracies.

The Orthodox Faith, esp. the Liturgy, is very, very much like the ANCIENT Jewish/Israelite religion, in many ways. My comments had nothing to do with that.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 13, 2011, 12:58:43 AM
I didn't waste time 'refuting' Philoumenos' 'theory' for the same reason my Astronomy professor never dealt with the claims that the Moon is made out of green cheese.

There is no need to refute something that was never true in the first place. B.S. stands self-refuted.

 ::)


(http://www.forumspile.com/Flame-You-Lose-Chess.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 13, 2011, 12:58:44 AM
And one more thing ( then we can start drinking).

It's interesting how you (Xenia) think because Rocor is considered strict or Traditional that it is further away from Judaism.

Judaism and Orthodox Christianity are not at two opposite poles. Your wrong assumption may be that the more Orthodox Christian you are, the less you share commonalities with Judaism.

St. John Chrysostom - "demons dwell in the synagogue". He compared the synagogue to a pagan temple, representing it as the source of all vices and heresies.

He described it as a place worse than a brothel and a drinking shop; it was a den of scoundrels, the repair of wild beasts, a temple of demons, the refuge of brigands and debauchees, and the cavern of devils, a criminal assembly of the assassins of Christ.

But I guess St. John Chrysostom is an antisemite in your eyes Marc?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 13, 2011, 12:58:44 AM
Actually my only brother is Gay.. Maybe we can introduce them.

You promote homosexuality now?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 13, 2011, 03:07:46 AM
Everyone take a look at Philoumenos' posts, and then look at SaintIaint's posts... the similarity, not only in content, but in tone, style, and presentation, is uncanny.

Also, the way he keeps changing his forum titles, so he appears to be saying something 'nice' on the sly.  ::) Does he think we have no memories?

I mean, really. Do he and his friends think the rest of us really buy this "I don't hate Jews, even though I talk in coded anti-Semitic language, I just don't like Zionism" hoohah? For pity's sake!

Have you *ever* met anyone who was not anti-Semitic and at the same time ranted about the Jews controlling the banks and the media?

Ever?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
 ::)

I hate to dignify this kind of cr*p with more attention, but just to give him one chance, here goes.

You know, there are only a few million Jews on the planet. A few.

There are undoubtedly millions upon millions of bank branches.

Unless every single Jewish person on the planet owns several bank branches, and people of other faiths own exactly zero, the 'theory' goes into the toilet.

Where it belongs.

What are you all junior detectives around here? What's my IP? What's my email? Call the ADL!

Apparently you all think I'm Saint Iaint?

Why should I answer your ridiculous assertion? You never responded to or even acknowledged mine.

Tell me:  Who does run the Federal Reserve? You basically inferred that I am crazy, offering me some of your pills but you haven't proven that as I asked you to. Now you think you can just carry on as if you have proven it? Uh uh.

You guys have turned this into a thread which seems to presuppose that I have a problem with ALL Jews - when I've made it quite clear that is not the case. But still you carry on in that vein! Nevermind ALL JEWS. Right now we're only talking about specifics: Who OWNS and RUNS the United States Federal Reserve? I'll respond fully to you when you respond to me. Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

Who creates money out of thin air at taxpayer expense at the Fed? Forget any other question for now. You want to call me crazy? PROVE IT I SAID!

(Here, I'll throw you a little bone regarding your question: Individual Bank branches are OWNED by the parent bank. They have Bank Managers.)
For the record, Philoumenos has been positively identified as the banned poster Saint Iaint and has been banned (again) accordingly.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 13, 2011, 03:45:36 AM
Everyone take a look at Philoumenos' posts, and then look at SaintIaint's posts... the similarity, not only in content, but in tone, style, and presentation, is uncanny.

Also, the way he keeps changing his forum titles, so he appears to be saying something 'nice' on the sly.  ::) Does he think we have no memories?

I mean, really. Do he and his friends think the rest of us really buy this "I don't hate Jews, even though I talk in coded anti-Semitic language, I just don't like Zionism" hoohah? For pity's sake!

Have you *ever* met anyone who was not anti-Semitic and at the same time ranted about the Jews controlling the banks and the media?

Ever?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
 ::)

I hate to dignify this kind of cr*p with more attention, but just to give him one chance, here goes.

You know, there are only a few million Jews on the planet. A few.

There are undoubtedly millions upon millions of bank branches.

Unless every single Jewish person on the planet owns several bank branches, and people of other faiths own exactly zero, the 'theory' goes into the toilet.

Where it belongs.

What are you all junior detectives around here? What's my IP? What's my email? Call the ADL!

Apparently you all think I'm Saint Iaint?

Why should I answer your ridiculous assertion? You never responded to or even acknowledged mine.

Tell me:  Who does run the Federal Reserve? You basically inferred that I am crazy, offering me some of your pills but you haven't proven that as I asked you to. Now you think you can just carry on as if you have proven it? Uh uh.

You guys have turned this into a thread which seems to presuppose that I have a problem with ALL Jews - when I've made it quite clear that is not the case. But still you carry on in that vein! Nevermind ALL JEWS. Right now we're only talking about specifics: Who OWNS and RUNS the United States Federal Reserve? I'll respond fully to you when you respond to me. Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

Who creates money out of thin air at taxpayer expense at the Fed? Forget any other question for now. You want to call me crazy? PROVE IT I SAID!

(Here, I'll throw you a little bone regarding your question: Individual Bank branches are OWNED by the parent bank. They have Bank Managers.)
For the record, Philoumenos has been positively identified as the banned poster Saint Iaint and has been banned (again) accordingly.
If this is the case, then why is Saint Iaint marked "Muted" and Philoumenos labelled "Warned"?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 13, 2011, 03:49:08 AM
If this is the case, then why is Saint Iaint marked "Muted" and Philoumenos labelled "Warned"?

Wait a few hours and see.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Margaret S. on July 13, 2011, 04:44:40 AM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 13, 2011, 09:52:28 AM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret

In all my years as an Orthodox Jew I have to say I never saw anyone spell it as "glut".
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: vamrat on July 13, 2011, 10:16:26 AM
The conspiracy types here like to post almost entirely in Free-for-All and the private fora. Not just the occasional thread, but the majority of their posts. There's a reason for that. Those sections are seldom regulated (not a criticism, just a fact).

That right there tells you quite a bit.  ::)

There still are some really interesting individuals  :P who think there was no flight to the Moon and the whole thing was faked. One of them came up to John Glenn and started to bother him. John punched him right in the face.

That was Buzz Aldrin (the only other astronaut that could challenge John Glenn in badassery).  Great story.  Witnesses confirmed that the other guy initiated physical contact so no charges on Buzz.  Booya.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 13, 2011, 10:34:46 AM
In all my years as an Orthodox Jew I have to say I never saw anyone spell it as "glut".

"Glut kosher" gets about 40 Google hits.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 13, 2011, 10:37:11 AM
In all my years as an Orthodox Jew I have to say I never saw anyone spell it as "glut".

"Glut kosher" gets about 40 Google hits.

That's because there are a lot of Jews who were not raised Orthodox, but grew up on the periphery as a result of living near or working with some Orthodox Jews (as in Marc's case), and misheard it pronounced. What can I say?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 13, 2011, 10:41:38 AM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 13, 2011, 11:03:43 AM
Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

Indeed, it's a silly thing for you to keep bringing up, just like your endless repetition of your childhood anecdotes about Jews talking bad behind Christians' backs etc. You may well have the lowest ratio of new insights to number of posts of anyone on this forum.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 13, 2011, 11:04:21 AM
Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

Indeed, it's a silly thing for you to keep bringing up, just like your endless repetition of your childhood anecdotes about Jews talking bad behind Christians' backs etc. You may well have the lowest ratio of new insights to number of posts of anyone on this forum.

Tell me, how do you feel about Marc telling me to stay in the RCC?

As for what I said being "childhood anecdotes", au contraire. Yes I heard them as a child, but also as an adult. Remember that except for a few years of my life, I have always lived in Jewish communities.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 13, 2011, 12:19:30 PM
Everyone take a look at Philoumenos' posts, and then look at SaintIaint's posts... the similarity, not only in content, but in tone, style, and presentation, is uncanny.

Also, the way he keeps changing his forum titles, so he appears to be saying something 'nice' on the sly.  ::) Does he think we have no memories?

I mean, really. Do he and his friends think the rest of us really buy this "I don't hate Jews, even though I talk in coded anti-Semitic language, I just don't like Zionism" hoohah? For pity's sake!

Have you *ever* met anyone who was not anti-Semitic and at the same time ranted about the Jews controlling the banks and the media?

Ever?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
 ::)

I hate to dignify this kind of cr*p with more attention, but just to give him one chance, here goes.

You know, there are only a few million Jews on the planet. A few.

There are undoubtedly millions upon millions of bank branches.

Unless every single Jewish person on the planet owns several bank branches, and people of other faiths own exactly zero, the 'theory' goes into the toilet.

Where it belongs.

What are you all junior detectives around here? What's my IP? What's my email? Call the ADL!

Apparently you all think I'm Saint Iaint?

Why should I answer your ridiculous assertion? You never responded to or even acknowledged mine.

Tell me:  Who does run the Federal Reserve? You basically inferred that I am crazy, offering me some of your pills but you haven't proven that as I asked you to. Now you think you can just carry on as if you have proven it? Uh uh.

You guys have turned this into a thread which seems to presuppose that I have a problem with ALL Jews - when I've made it quite clear that is not the case. But still you carry on in that vein! Nevermind ALL JEWS. Right now we're only talking about specifics: Who OWNS and RUNS the United States Federal Reserve? I'll respond fully to you when you respond to me. Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

Who creates money out of thin air at taxpayer expense at the Fed? Forget any other question for now. You want to call me crazy? PROVE IT I SAID!

(Here, I'll throw you a little bone regarding your question: Individual Bank branches are OWNED by the parent bank. They have Bank Managers.)
For the record, Philoumenos has been positively identified as the banned poster Saint Iaint and has been banned (again) accordingly.
If this is the case, then why is Saint Iaint marked "Muted" and Philoumenos labelled "Warned"?
You'll have to ask Fr. Chris about that technical issue. If you take a look at the profile of each of the two accounts, you'll see that they've both been banned.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 13, 2011, 01:20:38 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret

In all my years as an Orthodox Jew I have to say I never saw anyone spell it as "glut".

Sorry, but ain't no standard transliteration of Yiddish into the Latin alphabet. I've read a variety of works in Yiddish from the turn of the century till today in transliteration. Many variant spellings have been and are used. Pretty typical for what amounts to a dialect.

 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 13, 2011, 01:27:48 PM
Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

Indeed, it's a silly thing for you to keep bringing up, just like your endless repetition of your childhood anecdotes about Jews talking bad behind Christians' backs etc. You may well have the lowest ratio of new insights to number of posts of anyone on this forum.

A fluent Yiddish speaker in America today? Well, you are a rarity.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 13, 2011, 01:46:54 PM
Um, everyone on the Fed Board is white. They are clearly keeping blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans from having any access to the banks.

Three of them are women, actually. Pretty sweet. So, white women.
Not quite. This site gives a run down on the statistics :

http://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls-the-federal-reserve-system-part-1/

Quote from: http://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls-the-federal-reserve-system-part-1/
Of the six(6) Federal Reserve Board governors, four(4) are Jews. This is a numerical representation of 67%. Of the twelve(12) Federal Reserve District Bank presidents, seven(7) are Jews. This is a numerical representation of 58%. Jews are approximately 2% of the U.S. population.* Therefore Jews are over-represented on the Federal Reserve Board of Governors by a factor of 33.5 times(3,350 percent), and over-represented among the Federal Reserve District Bank presidents by a factor of 29 times(2,900 percent).

Why in the world is this group so over represented?

Here is the Jew Alan Greenspan admitting the true nature of the Jew-controlled FED.

Greenspan Admits The Federal Reserve Is Above The Law & Answers To No One :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol3mEe8TH7w
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 13, 2011, 02:06:08 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

The only real difference is between Ashkenazi and Sephardi pronunciation, neither of which pronounce "glatt" as "glut".

yeah thas why i didn't say "pronounce" i said transliterate

Ya... I misspelled it. My Jewish education is very lacking, so I defer to others.. If you have a question about the vagaries of the Lotus Sutra, I'm you man. But I make no claims to ever being well educated in terms of Judaism.  
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: vamrat on July 13, 2011, 02:47:48 PM
Um, everyone on the Fed Board is white. They are clearly keeping blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans from having any access to the banks.

Three of them are women, actually. Pretty sweet. So, white women.
Not quite. This site gives a run down on the statistics :

http://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls-the-federal-reserve-system-part-1/

Quote from: http://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls-the-federal-reserve-system-part-1/
Of the six(6) Federal Reserve Board governors, four(4) are Jews. This is a numerical representation of 67%. Of the twelve(12) Federal Reserve District Bank presidents, seven(7) are Jews. This is a numerical representation of 58%. Jews are approximately 2% of the U.S. population.* Therefore Jews are over-represented on the Federal Reserve Board of Governors by a factor of 33.5 times(3,350 percent), and over-represented among the Federal Reserve District Bank presidents by a factor of 29 times(2,900 percent).

Why in the world is this group so over represented?

Here is the Jew Alan Greenspan admitting the true nature of the Jew-controlled FED.

Greenspan Admits The Federal Reserve Is Above The Law & Answers To No One :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol3mEe8TH7w


Pretty much what she said...they're all honkies.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 13, 2011, 02:58:06 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

The only real difference is between Ashkenazi and Sephardi pronunciation, neither of which pronounce "glatt" as "glut".

yeah thas why i didn't say "pronounce" i said transliterate

Sorry I missed this post. Haven't been following the thread since it really is embarrassing to read some of the post, but got a kick out of some the comments on "Yiddish".

Good on you Poppy.

You are right on and Xenia is showing some "holes" in her story frankly.

So, Xenia you are now the resident expert in all things Judaic. You know Yiddish and Sephardi? It is not an Ashkenazi pronunciation. There really ain't no such thing.

If you are going to get snippy about being precise, you better get it right.
 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 13, 2011, 03:05:31 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

I am beginning to doubt your fluency, at least in the orthography. It is not silly, since you are taking an adamant stance on something which ain't written in stone. Never has been, again since Yiddish was primarily a spoken language (yes I am familiar with Yiddish newspapers in the States), and spoken by people separated from each other and speaking highly different variants overtime.

My folks, on the rare occasion they wrote in Yiddish, did so with a more German orthography than the silliness that developed here in the States. The cognates remained much closer to the MHG of which it was a dialect than the attempt of the Jewry in the States to begin to alter the orthography to match the changing pronunciation and desire to move away from Yiddish being closely linked to German.

Since you are revealing all the secrets of the Elders of Zion, you should know the above.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 13, 2011, 03:21:39 PM
Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

Indeed, it's a silly thing for you to keep bringing up, just like your endless repetition of your childhood anecdotes about Jews talking bad behind Christians' backs etc. You may well have the lowest ratio of new insights to number of posts of anyone on this forum.

A fluent Yiddish speaker in America today? Well, you are a rarity.

Not really. All Chasidic Jewish communities, and some of the stricter "regular" Orthodox communities, regularly use Yiddish as their daily language of communication amongst themselves, with English reserved for outsiders (akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

All Chasidic Jewish kiddies, from a very young age, are bilingual in both Yiddish and the language of their native country.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 13, 2011, 03:26:12 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

The only real difference is between Ashkenazi and Sephardi pronunciation, neither of which pronounce "glatt" as "glut".

yeah thas why i didn't say "pronounce" i said transliterate

Sorry I missed this post. Haven't been following the thread since it really is embarrassing to read some of the post, but got a kick out of some the comments on "Yiddish".

Good on you Poppy.

You are right on and Xenia is showing some "holes" in her story frankly.

So, Xenia you are now the resident expert in all things Judaic. You know Yiddish and Sephardi? It is not an Ashkenazi pronunciation. There really ain't no such thing.

If you are going to get snippy about being precise, you better get it right.
 
WOW did you ever screw up what I said. I certainly hope it was not intentional.

Yiddish: once the everyday language of Eastern European Jews (now confined largely to Chasidic communities). Written in Hebrew characters but pronounced like a form of German. Traditionally is/was used by religious Jews to avoid speaking in lashon ha'kodesh which is reserved for shul.

Ashkenazi: the Eastern European pronunciation of Hebrew.

Sephardi: the Israeli pronunciation of Hebrew.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Poppy on July 13, 2011, 03:35:18 PM
Really a silly thing to argue over
You don't even believe your own words because.... you're still arguing.



Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Poppy on July 13, 2011, 03:36:05 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret

In all my years as an Orthodox Jew I have to say I never saw anyone spell it as "glut".

Of course you wouldn't have. Because you said there is a "correct" way of spelling these Yiddish words in English, and there isn't. So why would you have seen it??

Now theres a mega clue  ;)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Wallace on July 13, 2011, 06:21:10 PM
When a "minority" becomes a MAJORITY

Wow! For an Orthodox Christian website, there sure are a lot of Jews here! Like I mean - A LOT! The over-representation here is a lot like the over-representation at the Fed, in media and in the government. I'm starting to have a hard time believing that Jews are less than 2% of the population. They're everywhere! Seriously, the United States is now in the exact same boat that Weimar Germany was in, right before World War Two.

Quote
In 1923, 150 of the 161 privately-owned banks in Berlin were Jewish; [GORDON, p. 11] “In Berlin alone,” notes Jewish author Edwin Black, “about 75% of the attorneys, and nearly as many doctors, were Jewish.” [BLACK, p. 58] “All the major Berlin department stores – Wertheim, Herman Tietz, N. Israel, KaDeWe,” says Jewish author Peter Wyden, “were the properties of Jews. All the principal newspaper publishers and thirteen of the drama critics were Jews. Garment manufacturing, a major industry, was generally known to be in Jewish hands.” [WYDEN, p. 21]

Many German Jews were known to have, at least officially, converted to Christianity. Like the Spanish Marranos, this was often merely expeditious. As the German Jewish poet Heinrich Heine observed, baptism was “the ticket of admission into German culture.” [VARON, p. 10] Heine himself, notes Nahum Goldmann, “was a very good Jew at the end of his life and [his] conversion to Christianity was only a formality.” [GOLDMANN, N., 1978, p. 66] Popular German Jewish author Emil (born Cohen) Ludwig’s “conversion to Christianity had been merely an effort to buy the respect of Germans.” [MOSSE, G., 1985, p. 26] “Often one submitted [to baptism],” notes Adam Weisberger, “as an opportunistic matter of convenience … A Jewish origin was a handicap butone which baptism could remedy.” [WEISBERGER, A., 1997, p. 48] (Even inAmerica, noted James Yaffe, reflecting a theme, “Serge Koussevitzky, Eugene Ormandy, and Pierre Monteux, all Jews, had to convert to Christianity in order to reach the top of the symphony world.”) [YAFFE, J., 1968, p. 52]

In 1913, fifteen Jews held 211 seats on boards of German banks; by 1928 this numberwas 718. In that same year Jews represented 80% of the leading members of the Berlin stock exchange. Five years later the Nazis expelled 85% of all stockbrokers because of “race.” [GORDON, p. 12]

http://zionismunveiled.blogspot.com/2009/09/jewish-dominance-in-pre-wwii-germany.html


Quote
In the year 1930 out of a total of 603 firms in metal trade 346 or 57,3 % were on Jewish hands. In scrap metal out of 514 firms 211 or 41 %; in grain out of 6.809 firms 1.543 or 22,7 %; in textile retail out of 9.984 firms 3.9388 or 39,4 %; in ladieswear even out of 133 retailers 81 or 60,9 %.

In “Deutsche Bank und Discontogesellschaft” (1929) both directors of the board and four of the twelve members of the board; in the “Darmstädter Lind Nationalbank” the chairman of the board and two of his deputies, further three of the five personally responsible members of the board; in the “Dresdner Bank” (1928) the chairman  of the board and his deputy, further three of the seven board members; in the “Berliner Handelsgesellschaft” finally all three principals.

 Also the big private banks were almost totally on Jewish hands. Here we just mention the well known firms Arnhold, Behrens, Warburg, Bleichröder, Mendelssohn, Goldschmidt-Rothschild, Dreyfuss, Bondi und Maron, Aufhäuser, Oppenheim, Levy, Speyer-Elissen, Heimann, Stern.

 With the central point in these economic key positions the Jewish influence branched out into all links in the German industry. “Adressbook of directors and chairmen of the board”, which came out in 1930 – that is long before the national socialists came into power – shows, how really frightening the influence of these Jews or Jewish led capital concentrations had become in German economy.

 At the very top there is the Jewish banker Jakob Goldschmidt with 115 chairman of the board posts, on the second place the also Jewish banker Louis Hagen with 62 mandates. On the third place we find a non-Jewish lawyer, but then follows in the next four places four Jewish bankers with 166 chairman of the board posts in all. Also the rest is Jews almost all the way through.

Also in the trade organizations and its authorities of the economic life the number of Jews was abnormally high. First and foremost in the industry and chamber of commerce. In the largest German institute of this kind, in the Berliner industry and chamber of commerce – just to give an example – in the year 1931 out of 98 members 50 were Jews or half Jews, out of the 1.300 members of the technical committees 400, out of the 209 commercial judges in the chamber 131; in the board of the chamber was a president and 5 vicepresidents, thereof the president himself and three of his deputies were non-arians.

 It was even worse in the stock exchange.  Also here the stock exchange of the capital is mentioned as an example, as it was of course the most important one of its kind. In Berlin out of the 36 members of the board of the security stock exchange 25 were Jews, at the produce exchange out of 16 members of the board 10 were Jews; in the department for terminal trade out of 18 members of the board 15 were Jews; in the stock exchange committee out of 23 members of the board 18 were Jews. Out of a total of 70 members of the board for the whole stock exchange 45 were Jews. Also the customers of the stock exchange were mostly Jews, f.ex. in the year 1930 out of 1474 independent customers in the security stock exchange 1200 were verified to be Jews, in the produce stock exchange out of 578 customers about 520 were Jews, and in the metal  stock exchange even out of 89 cxustomers 80 were Jews.

 It is clear, that also the central bank of the German Reich, the Reichbank could not in the long run avoid the almost monopoly-like status, which Jewry had in capital trade and in all important positions in the economic life. So already in the time between 1925 and 1929 out of 6 members of the board (Generalrat) four were Jews or half-Jews.

In the year 1931 out of 67 German productionfilms 41 firms, i.e. 61 % Jewish, out of 28 rental firms 24, i.e. 86 %. At the same time out of in all 144 film manuscripts 119 or 82 % written by Jews. The production was in 77 cases, i.e. 53 % on Jewish hands. If one looks at the names of producers, stage managers and actors of these films, which were praised by the critics and turned into box office successes, one finds everywhere an overwhelming majority of Jews. Among producers and distribution agencies: Pressburger and Rabinowitsch (Cinema-alliance), Heymann, Fallner and Somló, Levy or Cohn. Under stage managers: Oswald-Ornstein, Zelnik, Meinert, Neufeld or Schönfelder. Under actors and actresses: Pallenberg, Siegfried Arno, Fritz Walburg, Felix Bressart, Kurt Gerron, Grete Moshein, Gitta Alpar, Rosa Valetti etc.

“Moral und Sinnlichkeit” (Morals and sensuality), „Das Buch des Lasters” (The book of vices), „Was kostet Liebe?“ (What is the price of love?), “Sündige Mutter” (Sinnful Mama), “Prostitution” (Prostitution), “Wenn ein Weib den Weg verliert” (When a woman looses her way). The boosting titles correspond to the contents: They rummaged around in filth and showed with cynical openness the filthiest scenes of perversions. Even the government of that time, which was really magnanimous in such matters, found it necessary in 1920 to counteract the worst anomalities with legislation concerning comedy, however without being able to ward off the evil completely.

 During the most recent years the greatest business was the socalled military farces, i.e. films, which in an intolerable way seek to ridicule and derise the German army and the individual German soldier. Also here we find Jews at top level as playwrights, as producers, stage managers and actors. Finally it should be remembered, that the well known Bolshevist propagandafilms such as “Panzerkreuzer Potemkin” or “Sturm über Asien” were imported to Germany by Jewish film agencies and film concerns.

It is very significant that all of the revue managers in Berlin – and there was practically no revue theatres outside of Berlin – were Jews without exceptions! Their unsavoury names will be recalled by many foreign visitors to Berlin: James Klein, Hermann Haller, Rudolf Nelson, the brothers Rotter and Eric Charell. Likewise the numerous revue playwrights, composers, stage managers and stars were almost exclusively Jewish domain.

 In these revues the uninhibited sex drive endulged in veritable orgies. All of the reality of life was considered an aspect of the sexual desire and its satisfaction. Chasteness and discipline were ridiculed as oldfashioned prejudice.

 Already the exciting titles of these revues, which were promoted at great expense, are significant. Here is a little “taste”:

 “Zieh dich aus” (Get undressed) – “Tausend nackte Frauen” (One thousand naked Women) – “Die Sünden der Welt” (The sinns of the World) – “Häuser der Liebe” (The Houses of Love) – “Streng verboten” (Strickly prohibited) – “Donnerwetter, tausend Frauen” (Hullabaloo, one thousand Women) – “Sündig und süss” (Sweet and sinnful)

 In the advertisement for the revue by James Klein “Zieh dich aus” the following contents were announced with deliberate speculation in the lower instincts: “An evening without morals and with the participation of 60 prized nudemodels. The hunt for beautiful women. Experiences with a 15 year old (!)” On the poster for the revue “Tausend nackte Frauen” it said: The great revue about free love. 40 pictures about morality and immorality.

http://knud.eriksen.adr.dk/germany_jewish_question.htm


To the jokers saying that the Federal Reserve is all White. Are Jews 'White'? Only when it's convenient for them to hide behind. Then Whites and "Honkies" (acceptable racial-slur) get all the blame in the public eye (helped along by their Jewish friends in media), while the lily-innocent Jews get off scott-free because they are so "persecuted" and so hard done by.

To represent yourself as a persecuted minority while wielding such a ridiculously high level of disproportionate influence and power OVER everyone is not only unmitigated gall (that's chutzpah for all of the Jews hiding in plain sight here), but is also an insult to those who have ACTUALLY been unfairly persecuted. 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 13, 2011, 06:24:50 PM
This is not even funny anymore!!!  :o
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 13, 2011, 06:39:56 PM
This is not even funny anymore!!!  :o

I frankly don't understand why so much focus is put on Jews and banks. I thought we were discussing Jews as they relate to Christianity?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 13, 2011, 06:41:34 PM
Is "Wallace" going to come up with a new name every day?  ::)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Wallace on July 13, 2011, 07:35:18 PM
This is not even funny anymore!!!  :o

It never was.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Wallace on July 13, 2011, 07:37:17 PM
This is not even funny anymore!!!  :o

I frankly don't understand why so much focus is put on Jews and banks. I thought we were discussing Jews as they relate to Christianity?

Until your posts got kicked off of that thread and into this one which says it's for "Jew Bashing".
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Wallace on July 13, 2011, 07:44:22 PM
Is "Wallace" going to come up with a new name every day?  ::)

I joined because I've been watching and seeing what's happening here. I usually post on Real Zionist News. I know I'll just get banned too, but at least I'm forcing you to do it it front of the world, and showing everyone what the score is here.

You people are LIARS and DEFAMERS of real Orthodox Christians who know your game like Br. Nathanael Kapner and (shockingly) many of you seem to have previously admitted to Jewish ancestry. Coincidence? I doubt it!

The Jews messed up big time when they did 9/11. Just wait until Americans figure it out you LIARS!

Multiple accounts are not permitted. This user is banned - MK.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 13, 2011, 07:45:12 PM
SaintIaint is dead. Long live SaintIaint!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 13, 2011, 07:54:19 PM
Is "Wallace" going to come up with a new name every day?  ::)

I joined because I've been watching and seeing what's happening here. I usually post on Real Zionist News. I know I'll just get banned too, but at least I'm forcing you to do it it front of the world, and showing everyone what the score is here.

You people are LIARS and DEFAMERS of real Orthodox Christians who know your game like Br. Nathanael Kapner and (shockingly) many of you seem to have previously admitted to Jewish ancestry. Coincidence? I doubt it!

The Jews messed up big time when they did 9/11. Just wait until Americans figure it out you LIARS!

What is wrong with admitting to Jewish ancestry? Br. Nathanael has Jewish ancestry too!

And by the way, not all Jews (or Jewish converts to Christianity) are out to destroy Christianity, America or the white race. I'm certainly not, and I know others who are not out to do that either. You admit you read Bro. Nathanael's site, so you know he thinks like you too.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 13, 2011, 10:01:09 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

I am beginning to doubt your fluency, at least in the orthography. It is not silly, since you are taking an adamant stance on something which ain't written in stone. Never has been, again since Yiddish was primarily a spoken language (yes I am familiar with Yiddish newspapers in the States), and spoken by people separated from each other and speaking highly different variants overtime.

My folks, on the rare occasion they wrote in Yiddish, did so with a more German orthography than the silliness that developed here in the States. The cognates remained much closer to the MHG of which it was a dialect than the attempt of the Jewry in the States to begin to alter the orthography to match the changing pronunciation and desire to move away from Yiddish being closely linked to German.

Since you are revealing all the secrets of the Elders of Zion, you should know the above.

When I worked at the "Kosher Kitchen" everyone pronounced it Glut...  I dunno.... I dont care.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 13, 2011, 10:57:07 PM
](akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

Do you have any idea what you talking about accurately and precisely?

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 13, 2011, 11:00:13 PM
WOW did you ever screw up what I said. I certainly hope it was not intentional.

Yiddish: once the everyday language of Eastern European Jews (now confined largely to Chasidic communities). Written in Hebrew characters but pronounced like a form of German. Traditionally is/was used by religious Jews to avoid speaking in lashon ha'kodesh which is reserved for shul.

Ashkenazi: the Eastern European pronunciation of Hebrew.

Sephardi: the Israeli pronunciation of Hebrew.

lulz. OK, I'll move along, since you obviously have no real background in Germanic languages or even understand how Yiddish and Hebrew pronunciation differs throughout the world.

If you do speak Yiddish fluently, it is a rarity. Are you simply contrary? Check the numbers.

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 13, 2011, 11:04:14 PM
the white race

Can you give a concise and useful and accurate definition of this in fewer than 200 words?


Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 13, 2011, 11:48:24 PM
WOW did you ever screw up what I said. I certainly hope it was not intentional.

Yiddish: once the everyday language of Eastern European Jews (now confined largely to Chasidic communities). Written in Hebrew characters but pronounced like a form of German. Traditionally is/was used by religious Jews to avoid speaking in lashon ha'kodesh which is reserved for shul.

Ashkenazi: the Eastern European pronunciation of Hebrew.

Sephardi: the Israeli pronunciation of Hebrew.

lulz. OK, I'll move along, since you obviously have no real background in Germanic languages or even understand how Yiddish and Hebrew pronunciation differs throughout the world.

If you do speak Yiddish fluently, it is a rarity. Are you simply contrary? Check the numbers.




SIGHH.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 13, 2011, 11:50:33 PM
](akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

Do you have any idea what you talking about accurately and precisely?



Uh, as a person who grew up living in an Orthodox Jewish community as an Orthodox Jew, and who presently lives near an Old Order Amish community and is friendly with many of them (even though I'm seen as one of "the English" by them), yes, I think I certainly do!

What IS your problem?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: SolEX01 on July 13, 2011, 11:57:06 PM
](akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

Do you have any idea what you talking about accurately and precisely?



Uh, as a person who grew up living in an Orthodox Jewish community as an Orthodox Jew, and who presently lives near an Old Order Amish community and is friendly with many of them (even though I'm seen as one of "the English" by them), yes, I think I certainly do!

What IS your problem?

Your mistranslation of the word Sephardic and your association of the word with a country that didn't exist before 1948.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Poppy on July 14, 2011, 12:12:18 AM
lolOl is that saintiaint back already???
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 14, 2011, 12:12:18 AM
This is not even funny anymore!!!  :o

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6idRVy5RZaU/TY0DYhdvD4I/AAAAAAAABRY/JxND1kyIkL0/I+Love+the+First+Amendment+Sticker.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 14, 2011, 12:12:19 AM
Who owns the fed (I see a lot of Jews on this chart):

N.M. Rothschild , London - Bank of England
                                 ______________________________________
                                |                                     |
                                |                           J. Henry Schroder     

                                |                             Banking | Corp.
                                |                                     |
                          Brown, Shipley - Morgan Grenfell - Lazard - |
                           & Company        & Company       Brothers  |
                                |               |              |      |
            --------------------|        -------|              |      |
            |                   |        |      |              |      |
 Alex Brown - Brown Bros. - Lord Mantagu - Morgan et Cie -- Lazard ---|
 & Son      |  Harriman       Norman     |    Paris          Bros     |
            |                   |        /      |            N.Y.     |
            |                   |       |       |              |      |
            |            Governor, Bank | J.P. Morgan Co -- Lazard ---|
            |            of England    /  N.Y. Morgan       Freres    |   
            |            1924-1938    /   Guaranty Co.      Paris     |
            |                        /    Morgan Stanley Co.  |      /
            |                       /           |              \Schroder Bank   
            |                      /            |              Hamburg/Berlin
            |                     /      Drexel & Company         / 
            |                    /       Philadelphia            /
            |                   /                               /
            |                  /                           Lord Airlie
            |                 /                               /
            |                /     M. M. Warburg       Chmn J. Henry Schroder
            |                |      Hamburg ---------  marr. Virginia F. Ryan
            |                |         |               grand-daughter of Otto
            |                |         |                Kahn of Kuhn Loeb Co.
            |                |         |                       
            |                |         |                       
Lehman Brothers N.Y -------------- Kuhn Loeb Co. N. Y.                         
            |                |     --------------------------                     
   µ
            |                |       |                      |                     
           8
            |                |       |                      |
Lehman Brothers - Mont. Alabama   Solomon Loeb           Abraham Kuhn
            |                |     __|______________________|_________
Lehman-Stern, New Orleans   Jacob Schiff/Theresa Loeb  Nina Loeb/Paul Warburg
-------------------------    |       |                      |
             |               | Mortimer Schiff        James Paul Warburg
_____________|_______________/       |
|            |          |   |        |
Mayer Lehman |     Emmanuel Lehman    \
|            |          |              \
Herbert Lehman     Irving Lehman        \
|            |          |                \
Arthur Lehman \    Phillip Lehman     John Schiff/Edith Brevoort Baker
              /         |             Present Chairman Lehman Bros
             /  Robert Owen Lehman    Kuhn Loeb - Granddaughter of
            /           |             George F. Baker
           |           /               |
           |          /                |
           |         /           Lehman Bros Kuhn Loeb (1980)
           |        /                  |
           |       /             Thomas Fortune Ryan
           |      |                    |
           |      |                    |
      Federal Reserve Bank Of New York |
           ||||||||                    |
  ______National City Bank N. Y.       |
  |        |                           |
  |   National Bank of Commerce N.Y ---|
  |        |                            \
  |   Hanover National Bank N.Y.         \
  |        |                              \
  |   Chase National Bank N.Y.             \
  |                                        |
  |                                        |
Shareholders - National City Bank - N.Y.   |
-----------------------------------------  | 
  |                                        /
James Stillman                            /
Elsie m. William Rockefeller             /
Isabel m.  Percy Rockefeller            /
William Rockefeller          Shareholders - National Bank of Commerce N. Y.   
J. P. Morgan                 -----------------------------------------------
M.T. Pyne                    Equitable Life - J.P. Morgan
Percy Pyne                   Mutual Life - J.P. Morgan
J.W. Sterling                H.P. Davison - J. P. Morgan
NY Trust/NY Edison           Mary W. Harriman
Shearman & Sterling          A.D. Jiullard - North British Merc. Insurance
|                            Jacob Schiff
|                            Thomas F. Ryan
|                            Paul Warburg
|                            Levi P. Morton - Guaranty Trust - J. P. Morgan
|
|
Shareholders - First National Bank of N.Y.
-------------------------------------------
J.P. Morgan
George F. Baker
George F. Baker Jr.
Edith Brevoort Baker
US Congress - 1946-64
|
|
|
|
|
Shareholders - Hanover National Bank N.Y.
------------------------------------------
James Stillman
William Rockefeller
|
|
|
|
|
Shareholders - Chase National Bank N.Y.
---------------------------------------
George F. Baker


http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 12:15:36 AM
](akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

Do you have any idea what you talking about accurately and precisely?



Uh, as a person who grew up living in an Orthodox Jewish community as an Orthodox Jew, and who presently lives near an Old Order Amish community and is friendly with many of them (even though I'm seen as one of "the English" by them), yes, I think I certainly do!

What IS your problem?

Your mistranslation of the word Sephardic and your association of the word with a country that didn't exist before 1948.

How did I "mistranslate" the word Sephardic? Because I used the current definition of it?

The Sephardic transliteration and pronunciation are the standard in the modern state of Israel, but it is also the standard pronunciation of Sephardic Jews, that is, Jews from Spain, Turkey, Egypt, the Middle East, etc.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 14, 2011, 12:30:13 AM
lolOl is that saintiaint back already???
Yup, and this newest sock puppet just got banned, too (though his avatar doesn't show it).
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 14, 2011, 12:34:15 AM
This is not even funny anymore!!!  :o

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6idRVy5RZaU/TY0DYhdvD4I/AAAAAAAABRY/JxND1kyIkL0/I+Love+the+First+Amendment+Sticker.jpg)
::) Yes, because being angry with someone starting multiple accounts, having the audacity to pretend that he or she is a different person each time, and gradually posting more explicit stuff on the board is me wanting to take away your constitutional rights.  My bad, I get them mixed up all the time.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Margaret S. on July 14, 2011, 02:22:13 AM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

It only became a silly thing when you picked Marc up on it. As far as I can see he isn't claiming to come from the same background as you, he's only trying to say as a Jew he has a perspective on this and you keep protesting he's not Jewish enough to really understand and look - here's proof - he got a vowel wrong. If only Orthodox Jews know enough about Judaism to comment on 'Jew bashing' then you ought to have the thread to yourself because SaintIaint knows a whole lot less about it than Marc.

Margaret
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Margaret S. on July 14, 2011, 02:25:22 AM
Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

Indeed, it's a silly thing for you to keep bringing up, just like your endless repetition of your childhood anecdotes about Jews talking bad behind Christians' backs etc. You may well have the lowest ratio of new insights to number of posts of anyone on this forum.

A fluent Yiddish speaker in America today? Well, you are a rarity.

Not really. All Chasidic Jewish communities, and some of the stricter "regular" Orthodox communities, regularly use Yiddish as their daily language of communication amongst themselves, with English reserved for outsiders (akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

All Chasidic Jewish kiddies, from a very young age, are bilingual in both Yiddish and the language of their native country.

Same in the UK. You hear Yiddish spoken in Stamford Hill although the dialect can vary from block to block sometimes and there's a difference between older people who have a definite 'Yiddish' accent and the young ones, the under 30s, who speak it like Londoners. A linguist's paradise.

Margart
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 08:28:08 AM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

It only became a silly thing when you picked Marc up on it. As far as I can see he isn't claiming to come from the same background as you, he's only trying to say as a Jew he has a perspective on this and you keep protesting he's not Jewish enough to really understand and look - here's proof - he got a vowel wrong. If only Orthodox Jews know enough about Judaism to comment on 'Jew bashing' then you ought to have the thread to yourself because SaintIaint knows a whole lot less about it than Marc.

Margaret

It didn't become a silly thing when I commented on it to make the correction in pronunciation...it became a silly thing when others chose to harp on it and run with it, ad infinitum.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 14, 2011, 08:59:28 AM
This is not even funny anymore!!!  :o

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6idRVy5RZaU/TY0DYhdvD4I/AAAAAAAABRY/JxND1kyIkL0/I+Love+the+First+Amendment+Sticker.jpg)
::) Yes, because being angry with someone starting multiple accounts, having the audacity to pretend that he or she is a different person each time, and gradually posting more explicit stuff on the board is me wanting to take away your constitutional rights.  My bad, I get them mixed up all the time.

They may be different people who are associated in some way. For example one mentioned he posts on Br. Nathanial's Board regularly. They may have organized something. When one goes down another steps up and repeats the same sort of dumb blather.

Fishy

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 14, 2011, 09:07:33 AM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

It only became a silly thing when you picked Marc up on it. As far as I can see he isn't claiming to come from the same background as you, he's only trying to say as a Jew he has a perspective on this and you keep protesting he's not Jewish enough to really understand and look - here's proof - he got a vowel wrong. If only Orthodox Jews know enough about Judaism to comment on 'Jew bashing' then you ought to have the thread to yourself because SaintIaint knows a whole lot less about it than Marc.

Margaret

It didn't become a silly thing when I commented on it to make the correction in pronunciation...it became a silly thing when others chose to harp on it and run with it, ad infinitum.

There is saying among Lawyers; "If you dont have enough evidence on your side, attack the credibility of the witness."

That's what you were hunting around for and got back some of the same.


This is becoming tiresome.
 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jonathan Gress on July 14, 2011, 11:30:00 AM
Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

Indeed, it's a silly thing for you to keep bringing up, just like your endless repetition of your childhood anecdotes about Jews talking bad behind Christians' backs etc. You may well have the lowest ratio of new insights to number of posts of anyone on this forum.

A fluent Yiddish speaker in America today? Well, you are a rarity.

Not really. All Chasidic Jewish communities, and some of the stricter "regular" Orthodox communities, regularly use Yiddish as their daily language of communication amongst themselves, with English reserved for outsiders (akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

All Chasidic Jewish kiddies, from a very young age, are bilingual in both Yiddish and the language of their native country.

Same in the UK. You hear Yiddish spoken in Stamford Hill although the dialect can vary from block to block sometimes and there's a difference between older people who have a definite 'Yiddish' accent and the young ones, the under 30s, who speak it like Londoners. A linguist's paradise.

Margart

You mean they vary in their pronunciation of Yiddish or in their pronunciation of English?

By the way, Old Order Amish don't speak High German as an everyday language. They use it in their services and prayers, but their everyday language is quite different and varies from community to community. Most Amish in America came from either Switzerland or the Palatinate, so their spoken dialects are generally derived from one or both of these dialect regions, though now there is also considerable English influence.

Example: in Lancaster County Amish communities, who I believe are largely descended from Palatine settlers (Pfalz), the word for "run" is "laafen", but "house" is "haus", while in High German, "run" is "laufen". This is because in High German, Middle German ou, loufen, merged with û, hûs, as au, so laufen, haus, but in the Palatine region, ou and û developed differently, as aa and au respectively.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 14, 2011, 11:31:54 AM

They may be different people who are associated in some way. For example one mentioned he posts on Br. Nathanial's Board regularly. They may have organized something. When one goes down another steps up and repeats the same sort of dumb blather.

Fishy


True, but still pretty annoying at the same time.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 14, 2011, 11:36:56 AM
And one more thing ( then we can start drinking).

It's interesting how you (Xenia) think because Rocor is considered strict or Traditional that it is further away from Judaism.

Judaism and Orthodox Christianity are not at two opposite poles. Your wrong assumption may be that the more Orthodox Christian you are, the less you share commonalities with Judaism.

St. John Chrysostom - "demons dwell in the synagogue". He compared the synagogue to a pagan temple, representing it as the source of all vices and heresies.

He described it as a place worse than a brothel and a drinking shop; it was a den of scoundrels, the repair of wild beasts, a temple of demons, the refuge of brigands and debauchees, and the cavern of devils, a criminal assembly of the assassins of Christ.

But I guess St. John Chrysostom is an antisemite in your eyes Marc?

St. John's stand against Judaizers is correct and I share his view. I have even argued for it when we had a nice woman from a Messianic Jewish Group on this forum... I practically scolded her.

His Antisemitic language is widely considered extreme and a flaw.. Did you  think Saints are perfect people? Others here know far more about him and this issue. It would make a good thread. I beleive I read he was repentant in later life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chrysostom

Homilies on Jews and Judaizing Christians
Main article: Adversus Judaeos

During his first two years as a presbyter in Antioch (386-387), John denounced Jews and Judaizing Christians in a series of eight homilies delivered to Christians in his congregation who were taking part in Jewish festivals and other Jewish observances.[36] It is disputed whether the main target were specifically Judaizers or Jews in general. His homilies were expressed in the conventional manner, utilizing the uncompromising rhetorical form known as the psogos (Greek: blame).

One of the purposes of these homilies was to prevent Christians from participating in Jewish customs, and thus prevent the perceived erosion of Chrysostom's flock. In his homilies, John criticized those "Judaizing Christians", who were participating in Jewish festivals and taking part in other Jewish observances, such as the shabbat, submitted to circumcision and made pilgrimage to Jewish holy places.[37] John claimed that on the shabbats and Jewish festivals synagogues were full of Christians, especially women, who loved the solemnity of the Jewish liturgy, enjoyed listening to the shofar on Rosh Hashanah, and applauded famous preachers in accordance with the contemporary custom.[38] A more recent theory is that he instead tried to persuade Jewish Christians, who for centuries had kept connections with Jews and Judaism, to choose between Judaism and Christianity.[39]

In Greek the homilies are called Kata Ioudaiōn (Κατὰ Ιουδαίων), which is translated as Adversus Judaeos in Latin and Against the Jews in English.[40] The original Benedictine editor of the homilies, Bernard de Montfaucon, gives the following footnote to the title: "A discourse against the Jews; but it was delivered against those who were Judaizing and keeping the fasts with them [the Jews]."[41]
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: SolEX01 on July 14, 2011, 11:52:36 AM
](akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

Do you have any idea what you talking about accurately and precisely?



Uh, as a person who grew up living in an Orthodox Jewish community as an Orthodox Jew, and who presently lives near an Old Order Amish community and is friendly with many of them (even though I'm seen as one of "the English" by them), yes, I think I certainly do!

What IS your problem?

Your mistranslation of the word Sephardic and your association of the word with a country that didn't exist before 1948.

How did I "mistranslate" the word Sephardic? Because I used the current definition of it?

The Sephardic transliteration and pronunciation are the standard in the modern state of Israel, but it is also the standard pronunciation of Sephardic Jews, that is, Jews from Spain, Turkey, Egypt, the Middle East, etc.

There is a current definition of Sephardic?   ???  The term Sephardic existed before the nation of Israel was created.

You said, "Sephardi: the Israeli pronunciation of Hebrew."

And to Poppy ... I ain't no SaintIaint.   ;)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 12:08:46 PM
Xenia,

I see that others have already alluded to the problems with your understanding of what you are talking about.

This ain't some place where no one know what you are going on about and you can just throw your "colorful" bio out as proof for statements you make.

In the future, rest assured that pretty much whatever subject you bring up here, a mere layperson can google your statements or that someone here is probably expert in what you are mentioning.

I don't care where you lived or who you spoke with. Pretty much everything you have said regarding Germanic languages here is neither precise nor accurate. Even wikipedia does a better job.

The general and passing critiques above are enough to show you don't understand what you are saying.

So in the future, stick to your experience and try not to write off others just because you think you have a monopoly on how the world works based on your tiny interaction with it. That includes whatever animus you hold towards Jews.

Matzo Tov! //:=|

 



Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 12:51:13 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

It only became a silly thing when you picked Marc up on it. As far as I can see he isn't claiming to come from the same background as you, he's only trying to say as a Jew he has a perspective on this and you keep protesting he's not Jewish enough to really understand and look - here's proof - he got a vowel wrong. If only Orthodox Jews know enough about Judaism to comment on 'Jew bashing' then you ought to have the thread to yourself because SaintIaint knows a whole lot less about it than Marc.

Margaret

It didn't become a silly thing when I commented on it to make the correction in pronunciation...it became a silly thing when others chose to harp on it and run with it, ad infinitum.

There is saying among Lawyers; "If you dont have enough evidence on your side, attack the credibility of the witness."

That's what you were hunting around for and got back some of the same.


This is becoming tiresome.
  

No, actually, what has been happening here is that I dared to come up against one of the coddled chosen, and was attacked for it...a coddled chosen who is allowed to personally insult other members, in prideful and snotty ways,even tell them not to join the Orthodox Church, and nothing happens to him, while others who have done far less are silenced.

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 14, 2011, 01:13:14 PM
Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  :D

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

It only became a silly thing when you picked Marc up on it. As far as I can see he isn't claiming to come from the same background as you, he's only trying to say as a Jew he has a perspective on this and you keep protesting he's not Jewish enough to really understand and look - here's proof - he got a vowel wrong. If only Orthodox Jews know enough about Judaism to comment on 'Jew bashing' then you ought to have the thread to yourself because SaintIaint knows a whole lot less about it than Marc.

Margaret

It didn't become a silly thing when I commented on it to make the correction in pronunciation...it became a silly thing when others chose to harp on it and run with it, ad infinitum.

There is saying among Lawyers; "If you dont have enough evidence on your side, attack the credibility of the witness."

That's what you were hunting around for and got back some of the same.


This is becoming tiresome.
  

No, actually, what has been happening here is that I dared to come up against one of the coddled chosen, and was attacked for it...a coddled chosen who is allowed to personally insult other members, in prideful and snotty ways,even tell them not to join the Orthodox Church, and nothing happens to him, while others who have done far less are silenced.


Xenia,

If you wish to complain about how this thread has been moderated, which is what you're doing when you complain that some have no action taken against them while others are "silenced", then please use the "Report to Moderator" function or PM the moderator team to air your complaints. Public criticism of moderatorial decisions is not permitted on this forum and will be sanctioned harshly.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 14, 2011, 01:13:55 PM
And one more thing ( then we can start drinking).

It's interesting how you (Xenia) think because Rocor is considered strict or Traditional that it is further away from Judaism.

Judaism and Orthodox Christianity are not at two opposite poles. Your wrong assumption may be that the more Orthodox Christian you are, the less you share commonalities with Judaism.

St. John Chrysostom - "demons dwell in the synagogue". He compared the synagogue to a pagan temple, representing it as the source of all vices and heresies.

He described it as a place worse than a brothel and a drinking shop; it was a den of scoundrels, the repair of wild beasts, a temple of demons, the refuge of brigands and debauchees, and the cavern of devils, a criminal assembly of the assassins of Christ.

But I guess St. John Chrysostom is an antisemite in your eyes Marc?

St. John's stand against Judaizers is correct and I share his view. I have even argued for it when we had a nice woman from a Messianic Jewish Group on this forum... I practically scolded her.

His Antisemitic language is widely considered extreme and a flaw.. Did you  think Saints are perfect people? Others here know far more about him and this issue. It would make a good thread. I beleive I read he was repentant in later life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chrysostom

Homilies on Jews and Judaizing Christians
Main article: Adversus Judaeos

During his first two years as a presbyter in Antioch (386-387), John denounced Jews and Judaizing Christians in a series of eight homilies delivered to Christians in his congregation who were taking part in Jewish festivals and other Jewish observances.[36] It is disputed whether the main target were specifically Judaizers or Jews in general. His homilies were expressed in the conventional manner, utilizing the uncompromising rhetorical form known as the psogos (Greek: blame).

One of the purposes of these homilies was to prevent Christians from participating in Jewish customs, and thus prevent the perceived erosion of Chrysostom's flock. In his homilies, John criticized those "Judaizing Christians", who were participating in Jewish festivals and taking part in other Jewish observances, such as the shabbat, submitted to circumcision and made pilgrimage to Jewish holy places.[37] John claimed that on the shabbats and Jewish festivals synagogues were full of Christians, especially women, who loved the solemnity of the Jewish liturgy, enjoyed listening to the shofar on Rosh Hashanah, and applauded famous preachers in accordance with the contemporary custom.[38] A more recent theory is that he instead tried to persuade Jewish Christians, who for centuries had kept connections with Jews and Judaism, to choose between Judaism and Christianity.[39]

In Greek the homilies are called Kata Ioudaiōn (Κατὰ Ιουδαίων), which is translated as Adversus Judaeos in Latin and Against the Jews in English.[40] The original Benedictine editor of the homilies, Bernard de Montfaucon, gives the following footnote to the title: "A discourse against the Jews; but it was delivered against those who were Judaizing and keeping the fasts with them [the Jews]."[41]

Agreed, I do not have a problem with certain Jewish cultures, just ones that conflict with Christianity.

I think of Jews more in this terminology: "Fathers of the Church view Jews as the adherents of a religion, as a spiritual entity, not merely as a race."

http://orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/antisemitism.aspx

My uncle is, in fact, a member of Messianic Judaism. I've been trying to convert him for a while.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 01:41:18 PM
Agreed, I do not have a problem with certain Jewish cultures, just ones that conflict with Christianity.

Really? Why then have you posted multiple times to complain how financial institutions are "controlled by Jews"? What evidence do you have that any of those people are religiously observant and conflicting with Christianity, as opposed to merely Jewish as ethnicity? The whole Rothschild family, for example, is now intermarried with Christians and European aristocracy -- they aren't an Orthodox Jewish cabal keeping to themselves in their lair.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: SolEX01 on July 14, 2011, 01:59:18 PM
No, actually, what has been happening here is that I dared to come up against one of the coddled chosen, and was attacked for it...a coddled chosen who is allowed to personally insult other members, in prideful and snotty ways,even tell them not to join the Orthodox Church, and nothing happens to him, while others who have done far less are silenced.

Do you sympathize with those "who have done far less" or support their position?

SaintIaint and his sock puppets would first appear as Orthodox cathecumens until they were debunked as anti-Semitic conspiracy mongers.  Are you more "mainstream" than they are?

EDIT: to correct grammar.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 14, 2011, 02:02:09 PM
Agreed, I do not have a problem with certain Jewish cultures, just ones that conflict with Christianity.

Really? Why then have you posted multiple times to complain how financial institutions are "controlled by Jews"? What evidence do you have that any of those people are religiously observant and conflicting with Christianity, as opposed to merely Jewish as ethnicity? The whole Rothschild family, for example, is now intermarried with Christians and European aristocracy -- they aren't an Orthodox Jewish cabal keeping to themselves in their lair.

Oh, you must not know what I meant when I said Jewish. How about the fact that they are Zionists (aka racists).

(http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/israel/Anti_Semitism_by_Latuff2.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 14, 2011, 02:02:10 PM
SaintIaint and his sock puppets would first appear as Orthodox cathecumens until they were debunked as anti-Semitic conspiracy mongers.  Are you more "mainstream" than they are?

(http://racismandnationalconsciousnessnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/anti-semitism-zionism-racism.jpg%3Fw%3D614)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 02:03:14 PM
Agreed, I do not have a problem with certain Jewish cultures, just ones that conflict with Christianity.

Really? Why then have you posted multiple times to complain how financial institutions are "controlled by Jews"? What evidence do you have that any of those people are religiously observant and conflicting with Christianity, as opposed to merely Jewish as ethnicity? The whole Rothschild family, for example, is now intermarried with Christians and European aristocracy -- they aren't an Orthodox Jewish cabal keeping to themselves in their lair.
celticfan1888 is right in this regard. We (and I believe I can speak for all of the poster who support exposure of the Jewish conspiracy) take objection to the anti-Christ nature of the Jewish religion, not the race (this is why the term "anti-Semite" is both false and slanderous). You ask than, what evidence there is concerning the religiosity of the Jewish conspirators. Many of these individuals lack a deep faith, choosing to identify with Judaism on cultural grounds. It is here where the problem lies. People may reject the faith of their upbringing, but rejecting a culture (especially one with racist and selfish tendacies) is much more difficult and requires a true realization (and condemnation) of the wickedness behind it.

Talmudism has so entrenched itself in Jewish culture that to truly free oneself from it, a rejection of the Jewish culture is necessary.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 02:06:10 PM
Oh, you must not know what I meant when I said Jewish. How about the fact that they are Zionists (aka racists).

That support for the state of Israel, as opposed to just letting the neighbouring countries move in and take over, is "conflicting with Christianity" will be news to all the Russian Orthodox Christians now living in Israel.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 02:10:37 PM
Many of these individuals lack a deep faith, choosing to identify with Judaism on cultural grounds. It is here where the problem lies. People may reject the faith of their upbringing, but rejecting a culture (especially one with racist and selfish tendacies) is much more difficult and requires a true realization (and condemnation) of the wickedness behind it.

Nice, you deny you are a bigot, but then you write yourself a little escape clause that you can use to continue to condemn people for no reason other than their vague ethnic identity.

Being culturally Jewish may be no more than recognizing that one's ancestors were such and not filling the void with any other religion. You have yet to provide proof that everyone you place into a Jewish conspiracy actually believes in certain dogma in conflict with Christianity.


Quote
Talmudism has so entrenched itself in Jewish culture that to truly free oneself from it, a rejection of the Jewish culture is necessary.

The Talmud is a compilation of religious law. How again are atheists (a great many Jews today, even in Israel) enslaved to its demands in minute detail of how to relate to the deity?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 02:12:51 PM
Agreed, I do not have a problem with certain Jewish cultures, just ones that conflict with Christianity.

Really? Why then have you posted multiple times to complain how financial institutions are "controlled by Jews"? What evidence do you have that any of those people are religiously observant and conflicting with Christianity, as opposed to merely Jewish as ethnicity? The whole Rothschild family, for example, is now intermarried with Christians and European aristocracy -- they aren't an Orthodox Jewish cabal keeping to themselves in their lair.
celticfan1888 is right in this regard. We (and I believe I can speak for all of the poster who support exposure of the Jewish conspiracy) take objection to the anti-Christ nature of the Jewish religion, not the race (this is why the term "anti-Semite" is both false and slanderous). You ask than, what evidence there is concerning the religiosity of the Jewish conspirators. Many of these individuals lack a deep faith, choosing to identify with Judaism on cultural grounds. It is here where the problem lies. People may reject the faith of their upbringing, but rejecting a culture (especially one with racist and selfish tendacies) is much more difficult and requires a true realization (and condemnation) of the wickedness behind it.

Talmudism has so entrenched itself in Jewish culture that to truly free oneself from it, a rejection of the Jewish culture is necessary.

Sadly, this is true. The two are inextricably interwoven.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: SolEX01 on July 14, 2011, 02:14:13 PM
SaintIaint and his sock puppets would first appear as Orthodox cathecumens until they were debunked as anti-Semitic conspiracy mongers.  Are you more "mainstream" than they are?

< Cartoon Editorial Redacted >

I don't see B'Nai B'rith coming to the defense of Palestinians and they still use the world Anti-Semitism (http://bnaibrith.org/issues/antisemitism.cfm) to refer to Jews and to Israel:

Quote
One of the most striking international trends of the past seven years has been the dramatic growth of anti-Semitism, particularly in Europe and the Islamic world. This scourge has reached its highest level since World War II. B'nai B'rith International (BBI) is dedicated to shining the spotlight on hatred of Jews as a distinct and unique social illness, and to marshalling efforts to combat and, wherever possible, eradicate this phenomenon.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 14, 2011, 02:18:05 PM
You know, CelticFan, there ARE people on this board who don't fully support the Israeli government. It's not black and white.

The problem with many anti-Zionists is that their feelings bleed over into anti-Semitism. I've met anti-Zionists who were not anti-Semitic, and sorry to say, but the anti-"Zionist" posts in this thread aren't an example of those.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 02:21:38 PM
And one more thing ( then we can start drinking).

It's interesting how you (Xenia) think because Rocor is considered strict or Traditional that it is further away from Judaism.

Judaism and Orthodox Christianity are not at two opposite poles. Your wrong assumption may be that the more Orthodox Christian you are, the less you share commonalities with Judaism.

St. John Chrysostom - "demons dwell in the synagogue". He compared the synagogue to a pagan temple, representing it as the source of all vices and heresies.

He described it as a place worse than a brothel and a drinking shop; it was a den of scoundrels, the repair of wild beasts, a temple of demons, the refuge of brigands and debauchees, and the cavern of devils, a criminal assembly of the assassins of Christ.

But I guess St. John Chrysostom is an antisemite in your eyes Marc?

St. John's stand against Judaizers is correct and I share his view. I have even argued for it when we had a nice woman from a Messianic Jewish Group on this forum... I practically scolded her.

His Antisemitic language is widely considered extreme and a flaw.. Did you  think Saints are perfect people? Others here know far more about him and this issue. It would make a good thread. I beleive I read he was repentant in later life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chrysostom

Homilies on Jews and Judaizing Christians
Main article: Adversus Judaeos

During his first two years as a presbyter in Antioch (386-387), John denounced Jews and Judaizing Christians in a series of eight homilies delivered to Christians in his congregation who were taking part in Jewish festivals and other Jewish observances.[36] It is disputed whether the main target were specifically Judaizers or Jews in general. His homilies were expressed in the conventional manner, utilizing the uncompromising rhetorical form known as the psogos (Greek: blame).

One of the purposes of these homilies was to prevent Christians from participating in Jewish customs, and thus prevent the perceived erosion of Chrysostom's flock. In his homilies, John criticized those "Judaizing Christians", who were participating in Jewish festivals and taking part in other Jewish observances, such as the shabbat, submitted to circumcision and made pilgrimage to Jewish holy places.[37] John claimed that on the shabbats and Jewish festivals synagogues were full of Christians, especially women, who loved the solemnity of the Jewish liturgy, enjoyed listening to the shofar on Rosh Hashanah, and applauded famous preachers in accordance with the contemporary custom.[38] A more recent theory is that he instead tried to persuade Jewish Christians, who for centuries had kept connections with Jews and Judaism, to choose between Judaism and Christianity.[39]

In Greek the homilies are called Kata Ioudaiōn (Κατὰ Ιουδαίων), which is translated as Adversus Judaeos in Latin and Against the Jews in English.[40] The original Benedictine editor of the homilies, Bernard de Montfaucon, gives the following footnote to the title: "A discourse against the Jews; but it was delivered against those who were Judaizing and keeping the fasts with them [the Jews]."[41]

If the above is how you, Marc, genuinely feel about Judaizing, then I have to say that we are in agreement, and the only issue I would then have with you is your abrasive personality traits.

I recognize that, although Christianity arose out of (ancient) Judaism, they are two separate faiths. The so-called "messianic Jews" annoy me to no end, because they distort history, theology and reality. They are really nothing more than evangelical Protestants who are sometimes of  Jewish heritage  who seek to use Jewish symbology in order to deceive unsuspecting Jews.

If you want to convert Jews to the Christian Faith, do so honestly. If you're worried they will reject the Gospel if they know upfront you are Christians, so be it. There is a reason why when I became a believer in Jesus Christ that I entered the (Traditional) Roman Catholic Church, and not "messianic Judaism". I am a student of religious and ancient history, and I knew that the "messianic Jews" were just a fancy, modern term for evamgelicals posing as Jews. The Panarion of St Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis listed the many heresies of the early Church, and you will find "messianic Jews" int here, albeit under their ancient names.

There is really no new heresy today; they all existed when the Church was first founded. They just morph with new names.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 14, 2011, 02:22:09 PM
Oh, you must not know what I meant when I said Jewish. How about the fact that they are Zionists (aka racists).

That support for the state of Israel, as opposed to just letting the neighbouring countries move in and take over, is "conflicting with Christianity" will be news to all the Russian Orthodox Christians now living in Israel.

You mean support of the Jews running in, killing Palestinian families and taking their land? I guess in your world the Palestinians don't have the right to live because you don't like arabs? Look who's thebigot now.


(http://www.thfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Israel_stealing_palestine.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 02:28:19 PM
You mean support of the Jews running in, killing Palestinian families and taking their land?

The growth of Russian Orthodoxy in Israel is mainly found along the Mediterranean coast. That's been part of Israel since 1948, and even if one disagrees about whether the creation of Israel should have happened, what's done there is done.

If you are attempting to portray any supporter of the existence of Israel as a fan of the current settlements, that's easily refutable. Polls in the Israeli press regularly show a good level of disgust with settlements.

Get some sense and see that in throwing out the bathwater of settlement expansion, you should not throw out the baby of a state that allows rapid growth of Orthodoxy. If Israel were to cease to exist and the surrounding Arab countries were to control the future of the land, there would not be such growth in Orthodoxy. One only has to look at the bleak fate of Christians in the Arab Levant, where they cannot evangelize and are forced to accept the Muslim status quo.

Quote
I guess in your world the Palestinians don't have the right to live because you don't like arabs? Look who's thebigot now.

The Palestinian population is growing at a nice pace. No one is saying "the Palestinians don't have the right to live."
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: primuspilus on July 14, 2011, 02:30:59 PM
Quote
You mean support of the Jews running in, killing Palestinian families and taking their land?

Really? You're actually going to use that argument? Seriously? Someone fell asleep during history class. As if Israelis are the only ones doing this stuff...and palestinians are strapping bombs to people and blowing up jewish school houses ONLY in retaliation to what israelis do...not to mention that a great deal of the peace treaties are NEVER broken by palestinians ever....

primuspilus

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 02:36:29 PM
Nice, you deny you are a bigot, but then you write yourself a little escape clause that you can use to continue to condemn people for no reason other than their vague ethnic identity.
Sure, go ahead and throw out your little cliche terms. Bigot, anti-Semite, racist, conspiracy theorist, etc. Just take your pick. It certainly doesn't help your cause in any intelligent debate, but it helps the drugged sheeple in discerning which views are contrary to that of their overlords.

Being culturally Jewish may be no more than recognizing that one's ancestors were such and not filling the void with any other religion. You have yet to provide proof that everyone you place into a Jewish conspiracy actually believes in certain dogma in conflict with Christianity.
That is wrong, the Jewish culture is much more than ancestor recognition (actually that's not even culture). The Jews have always maintained a culture apart from that of the nation in which they reside. In their close nit communities, Talmudism seeps into all aspects of life, its hatred filling the hearts of countless, impressionable Jews. If you need proof of that, just look at the secular, Jewish support for the genocidal state of Israel.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 02:37:03 PM
Two very good books to read (one by a Melkite Catholic archbishop who lived in the Holy Land at the time the zionists took over, the other by an Orthodox writer) are:

Blood Brothers by Elias Chacour

A Second Look at the Second Coming (Conciliar Press)

The second book is especially good: the author, an Orthodox Christian, shows the fallacies in "Christian" zionism, and explain how harmful it has been to the indigenous Christians who live in the Holy Land, many of whom are of Arab ancestry. The book also explains the Orthodox position on who constitutes "Israel". I cannot recommend this book highly enough.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 02:40:16 PM
That is wrong, the Jewish culture is much more than ancestor recognition (actually that's not even culture). The Jews have always maintained a culture apart from that of the nation in which they reside.

Is it a sin to maintain a different culture than the majority of the country? Tell that to all of the Roma who remain in good standing with the Orthodox Church. And I guess all of those little ethnic enclaves in my neck of the woods -- the Banat Bulgarians, the Gagauz, the Transylvanian Saxons, the Banat Croatians, the handful of Phanariot Greeks left -- are major sinners for not instantly becoming Romanians.

Quote
In their close nit communities, Talmudism seeps into all aspects of life, its hatred filling the hearts of countless, impressionable Jews.

If that were true, there wouldn't be so many atheist Jews, or Jews who want to explore Hinduism or Buddhism. Have you ever walked into a bookstore in Israel and seen all the Eastern religion stuff on offer?

Quote
If you need proof of that, just look at the secular, Jewish support for the genocidal state of Israel.

Again, there is support for the existence of Israel among many Christians too. Not only the Russian Orthodox who moved to Israel on the basis of Jewish ancestry, but also the Arab Christians in places like Haifa that are happy they ended up on the right side of the border.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 02:42:09 PM
Really? You're actually going to use that argument? Seriously? Someone fell asleep during history class.
If anyone feel asleep during the Prussian-style brainwashing of the pubic school system, the good on them. Society wouldn't be half as screwed up.

strapping bombs to people and blowing up jewish school houses ONLY in retaliation to what israelis do
That is quite accurate. Do you have any evidence to suggest that Palestinian terrorism towards the Jews would exist apart from the existence of Israel?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 02:43:43 PM
A Second Look at the Second Coming (Conciliar Press)

The second book is especially good: the author, an Orthodox Christian, shows the fallacies in "Christian" zionism, and explain how harmful it has been to the indigenous Christians who live in the Holy Land, many of whom are of Arab ancestry. The book also explains the Orthodox position on who constitutes "Israel". I cannot recommend this book highly enough.

Meh. Any member on this board who is sane about Zionism (that is opposed to it, unlike marc) ain't going to get much out of this text that ain't been gone over here . . . over and over.

Just for fun, who is "Israel" for the Daily Double? I love a particular exegesis.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 02:44:38 PM
That is quite accurate. Do you have any evidence to suggest that Palestinian terrorism towards the Jews would exist apart from the existence of Israel?

What do you think Palestinians born in the West Bank would do to the people born in Israel if the state of Israel suddenly ceased to exist? Do you think that they would suddenly lovingly embrace the people living there when they took control of the land?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 02:46:13 PM
That is quite accurate. Do you have any evidence to suggest that Palestinian terrorism towards the Jews would exist apart from the existence of Israel?

What do you think Palestinians born in the West Bank would do to the people born in Israel if the state of Israel suddenly ceased to exist? Do you think that they would suddenly lovingly embrace the people living there when they took control of the land?

That definitely should be the measure we use to inform our foreign policy of supporting a genocidal regime.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 02:47:29 PM
A Second Look at the Second Coming (Conciliar Press)

The second book is especially good: the author, an Orthodox Christian, shows the fallacies in "Christian" zionism, and explain how harmful it has been to the indigenous Christians who live in the Holy Land, many of whom are of Arab ancestry. The book also explains the Orthodox position on who constitutes "Israel". I cannot recommend this book highly enough.

The indigenous Christian community was shrinking and persecuted well before the existence of Zionism. And it is the Arab Christians who wound up within Israel who can openly evangelize, not those in the Palestinian Territories.

While the Orthodox should be wary of American Evangelicals' theological claims for supporting Israel, there are perfectly good Orthodox reasons to support the state of Israel.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 02:48:31 PM
That definitely should be the measure we use to inform our foreign policy of supporting a genocidal regime.

What genocide? Populations are rising on all sides in that part of the world.

Orthonorm, do you care about building new parishes and sharing the Gospel, or do you only care about leftist slogans about "human rights" that in effect deny people an encounter with Christ's Church?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 02:50:07 PM
Is it a sin to maintain a different culture than the majority of the country? Tell that to all of the Roma who remain in good standing with the Orthodox Church. And I guess all of those little ethnic enclaves in my neck of the woods -- the Banat Bulgarians, the Gagauz, the Transylvanian Saxons, the Banat Croatians, the handful of Phanariot Greeks left -- are major sinners for not instantly becoming Romanians.
Where in the world the I state that having a culture apart from the majority is sinful? Did you actually read my post? If that is what you got out of it, you missed the point.

If that were true, there wouldn't be so many atheist Jews, or Jews who want to explore Hinduism or Buddhism. Have you ever walked into a bookstore in Israel and seen all the Eastern religion stuff on offer?
Because acceptance of a new religion does not wash away a cultural upbringing. One could even convert to Orthodoxy while maintaining racist and Zionist tendencies.

Again, there is support for the existence of Israel among many Christians too. Not only the Russian Orthodox who moved to Israel on the basis of Jewish ancestry, but also the Arab Christians in places like Haifa that are happy they ended up on the right side of the border.
And I would be willing to say that none of these individuals know the truth behind fake Israel. The VAST majority of Christian Zionists are of the heretical dispensationalist flavor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m6pPnQjn7w&feature=related
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 02:50:37 PM
That definitely should be the measure we use to inform our foreign policy of supporting a genocidal regime.

What genocide? Populations are rising on all sides in that part of the world.

You obviously have a impoverished view of what genocide means. Type it into google and read how the sane members international community understand it.

The forcible displacement of a people is an act of genocide.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 02:54:35 PM
Because acceptance of a new religion does not wash away a cultural upbringing.

You have yet to provide evidence that all whom you ascribe to a Jewish conspiracy preserve any specific elements of their cultural upbringing. How do you know that they don't only preserve the ethnic moniker and think negatively about some parts of Jewish traditional culture?

I suspect you're setting yourself up to utter the No True Scotsman fallacy.

The VAST majority of Christian Zionists are of the heretical dispensationalist flavor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m6pPnQjn7w&feature=related

Just because some Christians somewhere support Israel for certain reasons, that does not mean that other Christians elsewhere support Israel for the same reasons.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 02:57:15 PM
The forcible displacement of a people is an act of genocide.

If forcible displacement bothers you so much, then you would be going against a great deal of Christian state policy through the ages as well. You have to consider the effects of this forcible displacement -- namely, it has been good for the Church -- not just dismiss it out of hand as illicit, which is only secular human rights thinking.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 02:58:21 PM
That is quite accurate. Do you have any evidence to suggest that Palestinian terrorism towards the Jews would exist apart from the existence of Israel?

What do you think Palestinians born in the West Bank would do to the people born in Israel if the state of Israel suddenly ceased to exist? Do you think that they would suddenly lovingly embrace the people living there when they took control of the land?
Immediately, no. The damage has in many ways already been dealt and consequently, there is much bitterness dividing the two groups. Abolition of the Israeli state would be the first step. Allowing the the Palestinians to move back home would be a move towards reconciliation. It would be much easier, however, for the Jews to return to their countries of origin.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 14, 2011, 03:00:05 PM
Quote
You mean support of the Jews running in, killing Palestinian families and taking their land?

Really? You're actually going to use that argument? Seriously? Someone fell asleep during history class. As if Israelis are the only ones doing this stuff...and palestinians are strapping bombs to people and blowing up jewish school houses ONLY in retaliation to what israelis do...not to mention that a great deal of the peace treaties are NEVER broken by palestinians ever....

primuspilus



Really Israel never does anything like that...? They've killed your fellow americans...

"How pathetic and grotesque that today, Israel, which already, last spring, attacked an unarmed Turkish- flagged vessel bound for Gaza, killing nine people including a 19-year-old American youth who was executed while he lay wounded on the deck by several shots to the head fired by Israeli Defense Force troops, is not only being told it can attack a whole shipload of peaceful and unarmed American protesters (carrying only a cargo of letters expressing a desire for the peaceful liberation of Gaza). It is literally being invited to do so, by an American president and his Secretary of State."

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/678
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 14, 2011, 03:00:05 PM
Quote
even if one disagrees about whether the creation of Israel should have happened, what's done there is done.

No, No. It should've never happened and it was wrong. I love how you want to let it go, I think it's because your family and your way of life werent affected by this. Fact of the matter is, the State of Israel is no better, probably worse, than what Nazi Germany did in regards to invading Poland.

Quote

If Israel were to cease to exist and the surrounding Arab countries were to control the future of the land, there would not be such growth in Orthodoxy.

1) You should probably look up Israel's Law of Return. Neither of us could ever gain citizenship there as Christians.

2) They tax the living crap out of Christians and Christian organizations.

3) Not to mention they show things like this on Israeli TV mocking Jesus and Christianity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA6vRC1xW_c

4) They just built an Orthodox Church in the United Arab Emirates...

(http://2000.net.ua/ai/7/73/73941/hram.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 03:01:18 PM
Allowing the the Palestinians to move back home would be a move towards reconciliation.

Israel is not home for most of the Palestinians, born wherever their ancestors ended up. You might say it's home on the basis of ancestry, but that's the same argument many Jews would make.

Quote
It would be much easier, however, for the Jews to return to their countries of origin.

Israel is the country of origin for many of its present inhabitants.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 03:04:04 PM
Fact of the matter is, the State of Israel is no better, probably worse, than what Nazi Germany did in regards to invading Poland.

Probably worse? The creation of the State of Israel saw millions fewer deaths than the German invasion of Poland.

Quote
You should probably look up Israel's Law of Return. Neither of us could ever gain citizenship there as Christians.

There are plenty of Russian Orthodox who have moved there and more are coming as we speak. While they point to some Jewish ancestry, being observant Christians doesn't stop them from settling in Israel.

Quote
They tax the living crap out of Christians and Christian organizations.

Christianity is nonetheless growing there.

Quote
Not to mention they show things like this on Israeli TV mocking Jesus and Christianity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA6vRC1xW_c

Who cares? You can find blasphemy on television in many countries.

Quote
They just built an Orthodox Church in the United Arab Emirates...

Can the Christians there openly evangelize their Muslim neighbours?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 03:05:59 PM
You have yet to provide evidence that all whom you ascribe to a Jewish conspiracy preserve any specific elements of their cultural upbringing. How do you know that they don't only preserve the ethnic moniker and think negatively about some parts of Jewish traditional culture?

I suspect you're setting yourself up to utter the No True Scotsman fallacy.
Not completely and totally rejecting the racist and Talmudic culture is preservation enough.

Have you ever heard of a book called The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion? You would get a real feel for the Talmudic philosophy held and defended by many members of the Jewish elite.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 03:08:23 PM
The forcible displacement of a people is an act of genocide.

If forcible displacement bothers you so much, then you would be going against a great deal of Christian state policy through the ages as well. You have to consider the effects of this forcible displacement -- namely, it has been good for the Church -- not just dismiss it out of hand as illicit, which is only secular human rights thinking.

Oh the rhetorical fallacies, how shall I count thee?
Alphabetically?
Or maybe start with the most obviously:
The false dichotomy.

How on earth does my being a US citizen have any impact on what happened in history long past? The policies my country does engage in now I can have an impact on, a nearly insignificant impact perhaps, but one nevertheless.

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 03:10:27 PM
Israel is not home for most of the Palestinians, born wherever their ancestors ended up. You might say it's home on the basis of ancestry, but that's the same argument many Jews would make.
The last time the Jews occupied Judea was thousands of years ago. That is hardly a claim to the land.


Israel is the country of origin for many of its present inhabitants.
Sure, but they are nearly all the descendants of recent immigrants. Only a few generation ago, these Jews were living throughout Europe and America. Simply put, they have not claim to Palestinian land.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 03:13:14 PM
Fact of the matter is, the State of Israel is no better, probably worse, than what Nazi Germany did in regards to invading Poland.

Probably worse? The creation of the State of Israel saw millions fewer deaths than the German invasion of Poland.

Have you ever cracked a book on critical thinking or studied traditional rhetoric? You immediately assume the quantitative is the qualitative?

 
 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 03:15:30 PM
The last time the Jews occupied Judea was thousands of years ago. That is hardly a claim to the land.

Where do you draw the line then?

Quote
Only a few generation ago, these Jews were living throughout Europe and America.

You think they were only living "throughout Europe and America"?

What about all of the North African Jews who were violently booted out of their homeland when Israel was established. You think they and their descendants can just go back? There's a problem with a stateless population and you want to replace them with another stateless population?

Quote
Simply put, they have not claim to Palestinian land.

The group which ensures a brighter future for Orthodoxy has the best claim to the land. That's certainly the state of Israel.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 03:17:10 PM
The most diehard religious zionists have no respect for Christians, or for Jesus Christ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJn2xM3YaNg
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 03:19:28 PM
Israel's Law of Return

This alone reveals Israel to be not much different than the Nazis (no Godwin here) in fact. Just like the Germans, who in fairness sorta stole a little bit of their weird ideas on "race" from the Jewish thought, Israel uses weird rules of ancestry and belief to determine a viable citizen of their Heimat.



Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: primuspilus on July 14, 2011, 03:20:26 PM
Quote
That is quite accurate. Do you have any evidence to suggest that Palestinian terrorism towards the Jews would exist apart from the existence of Israel?

the trees and rocks will say, "O Muslim, O Abdullah, here is a Jew behind me, come and kill him


Quote
You obviously have a impoverished view of what genocide means. Type it into google and read how the sane members international community understand it.

The forcible displacement of a people is an act of genocide.
the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. I dont see forced relocation in that definition.

I believe Israel has a right to exist, as does a Palestinian state. I believe everyone deserves a place to call home. But as long as Palestinians blow up school busses of Jewish children, They're not going to get what they want.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 03:21:46 PM
The most diehard religious zionists have no respect for Christians, or for Jesus Christ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJn2xM3YaNg

I think this qualifier is inaccurate as many Zionists are Christians, who, whether you agree with them or disagree, believe they truly love Christ.

Frankly, it is the Christian Zionists who concern me the most.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 03:23:50 PM
This alone reveals Israel to be not much different than the Nazis (no Godwin here) in fact. Just like the Germans, who in fairness sorta stole a little bit of their weird ideas on "race" from the Jewish thought, Israel uses weird rules of ancestry and belief to determine a viable citizen of their Heimat.

Who cares? The policy is still better for the spread of Orthodoxy than the situation in the surrounding countries. Stop thinking of secular notions of fairness and think about how good things are going for Orthodox Christians in Israel.

Are the actions of the minority of observant Jews in Israel obnoxious? Sure. But when complaining about events in Israel, don't undermine the country's growing Christian communities. No state of Israel means no flourishing Russian Orthodox parishes. As I posted above, there's a lot of throwing out the baby with the bathwater in your comments.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 03:25:14 PM
The most diehard religious zionists have no respect for Christians, or for Jesus Christ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJn2xM3YaNg

I think this qualifier is inaccurate as many Zionists are Christians, who, whether you agree with them or disagree, believe they truly love Christ.

Frankly, it is the Christian Zionists who concern me the most.

YES. For me as well, the Christian zionists are the most serious problem. They advocate a very extreme form of militaristic zionism which brings harm not only to Palestinians, but also to Jews.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 03:26:09 PM
Quote
You obviously have a impoverished view of what genocide means. Type it into google and read how the sane members international community understand it.

The forcible displacement of a people is an act of genocide.
the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. I dont see forced relocation in that definition.

And according to the wikipedia entry I wrote about the universe, I am smack dab in the center.

That portion of the article is for some reason under discussion.

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 03:27:02 PM
The most diehard religious zionists have no respect for Christians, or for Jesus Christ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJn2xM3YaNg

I think this qualifier is inaccurate as many Zionists are Christians, who, whether you agree with them or disagree, believe they truly love Christ.

Frankly, it is the Christian Zionists who concern me the most.

YES. For me as well, the Christian zionists are the most serious problem. They advocate a very extreme form of militaristic zionism which brings harm not only to Palestinians, but also to Jews.

And pretty much every living thing on the planet.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 03:27:47 PM
This alone reveals Israel to be not much different than the Nazis (no Godwin here) in fact. Just like the Germans, who in fairness sorta stole a little bit of their weird ideas on "race" from the Jewish thought, Israel uses weird rules of ancestry and belief to determine a viable citizen of their Heimat.

Who cares? The policy is still better for the spread of Orthodoxy than the situation in the surrounding countries. Stop thinking of secular notions of fairness and think about how good things are going for Orthodox Christians in Israel.

Still trouble with that whole false dichotomy thing . . .

Keep studying, you'll get it one day.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 03:29:47 PM
Where do you draw the line then?
Reasonable claim. One group was last living in Judea nearly 2000 years ago and the other was living in Judea less than 100 years ago.

What about all of the North African Jews who were violently booted out of their homeland when Israel was established. You think they and their descendants can just go back? There's a problem with a stateless population and you want to replace them with another stateless population?
I am not saying that every Jew must return to whence their ancestors last came. This may sometimes be difficult or impossible. What I did say, however, was that returning would be easiest in mending Palestinian relations. The vast majority of the Jews could easily return to their previous homelands.

The group which ensures a brighter future for Orthodoxy has the best claim to the land.
Then give the land to Russia.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 03:31:11 PM
Israel's Law of Return

This alone reveals Israel to be not much different than the Nazis (no Godwin here) in fact. Just like the Germans, who in fairness sorta stole a little bit of their weird ideas on "race" from the Jewish thought, Israel uses weird rules of ancestry and belief to determine a viable citizen of their Heimat.




+ 1
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 03:33:00 PM
I think as Christians we should care more about the suffering of people being oppressed as a result of a nationalistic movement made up of Jews who originally came from Eastern Europe. Why should Palestinians suffer and lose their homeland because Hitler killed Jews in Eastern Europe? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that. Why are they made the scapegoat?

This defense of the zionist government, simply because it is claimed they are doing good by Orthodoxy, reminds me of the debate I had with zionist Jews regarding Turkey.

I have long been active in working to expose the genocide committed against the Armenian people by the Turks, something the Turks to this day deny (Holocaust deniers?) Back in 2006 or so, when Turkey was still an ally of the zionists, many zionists (though there were some notable exceptions) refused to condemn the Turks for what they did for fear of losing Israel's one Muslim ally. That's right...to hell with Jewish principles of morality, tzedakah (justice, fairness, charity)...lets not speak out against a genocide because it might hurt Israel.

I pointed out that these same zionists would be in an uproar if during WW2, another group had refused to speak up when Hitler was killing Jews, for fear of losing Germany as an ally.


I have wryly noted that the zionists NOW (2011) are speaking up, criticizing Turkey for what they did to the Armenians, now that Turkey has turned against Israel for other reasons! NOW they're all boycotting Turkish goods! I've been doing it since 1979!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CRCulver on July 14, 2011, 03:35:09 PM
Then give the land to Russia.

In a sense, that that has already been done inasmuch as Russians of Jewish ancestry but having much greater interest in Christianity have been immigrating to the land for several decades now.

Your comment is puzzling, though. Do you believe Russia in the long run and outside Israel will be a greater force for Orthodoxy than any other patriarchate?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: primuspilus on July 14, 2011, 03:37:45 PM
Quote
And pretty much every living thing on the planet.
I agree, it is dangerous.

Quote
One group was last living in Judea nearly 2000 years ago and the other was living in Judea less than 100 years ago

So, using that logic, if I take something of yours, after a time passes, you no longer have claim to it? So, can I steal your car and house? In say, 10 years, they're mine, right? Or 20 years? 50? 100?
So the Jews claim on their land became invalid after a specific amount of time? please remember, their claim to the land wasnt ALWAYS 2000 years old, at one time their claim was new.

Quote
Israel's Law of Return
That IS a pretty twisted rule actually....

primuspilus
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 03:42:28 PM
Then give the land to Russia.

In a sense, that that has already been done inasmuch as Russians of Jewish ancestry but having much greater interest in Christianity have been immigrating to the land for several decades now.

Your comment is puzzling, though. Do you believe Russia in the long run and outside Israel will be a greater force for Orthodoxy than any other patriarchate?
The problem, however, is that Israel is built on a religious principle. Because of that Orthodoxy will never thrive (unless some event similar to that of St. Constantine were to occur). I am for optimistic for the conversion of Muslims rather than Jews.

Yes, I do. Russia will be power that ushers in the final golden age of Orthodoxy (just prior to the coming of the anti-Christ).
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 14, 2011, 03:42:44 PM
Quote
And pretty much every living thing on the planet.
I agree, it is dangerous.

Quote
One group was last living in Judea nearly 2000 years ago and the other was living in Judea less than 100 years ago

So, using that logic, if I take something of yours, after a time passes, you no longer have claim to it? So, can I steal your car and house? In say, 10 years, they're mine, right? Or 20 years? 50? 100?
So the Jews claim on their land became invalid after a specific amount of time? please remember, their claim to the land wasnt ALWAYS 2000 years old, at one time their claim was new.

Quote
Israel's Law of Return
That IS a pretty twisted rule actually....

primuspilus

Can the American Indians claim the whole of North America and demand that all those of European ancestry move out?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: primuspilus on July 14, 2011, 03:45:55 PM
Quote
n the American Indians claim the whole of North America and demand that all those of European ancestry move out?

Sure they can, and they do. I dont agree with what has happened to them. Like I said before, EVERYONE deserves a place to call home.

I dont like the reservation system that has been pushed upon them. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do to fix it. I'd be more than happy to give them more land.

primuspilus
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 03:47:31 PM
According to traditional Orthodox and also traditional RC teaching, the promises made to national Israel (the Jews) no longer apply to them as a people: they apply to the Church, which is now "new" (transformed) Israel, being composed of all who accept Christ, be they Jew or Gentile.

The promises made in the Old Testament were conditional upon them keeping the Torah.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 03:48:34 PM
So, using that logic, if I take something of yours, after a time passes, you no longer have claim to it? So, can I steal your car and house? In say, 10 years, they're mine, right? Or 20 years? 50? 100?
So the Jews claim on their land became invalid after a specific amount of time? please remember, their claim to the land wasnt ALWAYS 2000 years old, at one time their claim was new...
And it was divine retribution that drove them from the land, scattering them in ever direction. We can't spend eternity trying to return every bit of land taken (I am not entirely sure how one would determine who owned it "first"), but what we can do is treat the concerns of living people. There are actually people alive today who have been driven from their land (the same cannot be said of the Jews of antiquity). Why would we not address their concerns?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 03:51:20 PM
So, using that logic, if I take something of yours, after a time passes, you no longer have claim to it? So, can I steal your car and house? In say, 10 years, they're mine, right? Or 20 years? 50? 100?
So the Jews claim on their land became invalid after a specific amount of time? please remember, their claim to the land wasnt ALWAYS 2000 years old, at one time their claim was new...
And it was divine retribution that drove them from the land, scattering them in ever direction. We can't spend eternity trying to return every bit of land taken (I am not entirely sure how one would determine who owned it "first"), but what we can do is treat the concerns of living people. There are actually people alive today who have been driven from their land (the same cannot be said of the Jews of antiquity). Why would we not address their concerns?

Most ultraOrthodox (Chasidic) Jews are, in fact, either non-zionist or anti-zionist (most people are not especially aware of it, but you never see an Israeli flag in an Orthodox synagogue, and this is why.) The reason why they are not zionists is because zionism was developed by antireligious, secular Jews with the intent to give Jews a way to "be Jewish" without the need to keep the Torah. The very religious Jews see zionism as a modern Golden Calf. The Orthodox Jewish community I grew up in was entirely anti-zionist, though they were not actively so. They believe that God put the Jewish people into exile (galus), and that only God, through Mashiach, can take them out again. They see zionism as a manmade, secular attempt to circumvent God's plan.

For one such example of an outspoken anti-zionist Orthodox Jewish organization, see http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com (Note: this group is not Neturei Karta, Guardians of the City, but they are similar.)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: primuspilus on July 14, 2011, 03:55:48 PM
Quote
And it was divine retribution that drove them from the land, scattering them in ever direction. We can't spend eternity trying to return every bit of land taken (I am not entirely sure how one would determine who owned it "first"), but what we can do is treat the concerns of living people. There are actually people alive today who have been driven from their land (the same cannot be said of the Jews of antiquity). Why would we not address their concerns?

With that, I totally agree.
I just had a thought. My sister and bro-in-law are militant dispensationalists...they'd freak if they knew I just agreed with you and orthonorm  :laugh:
primuspilus
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Cognomen on July 14, 2011, 04:27:53 PM
I just had a thought. My sister and bro-in-law are militant dispensationalists...they'd freak if they knew I just agreed with you and orthonorm  :laugh:

I'll bet they really freak when they find out that God agrees with those points too.
 ;D
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 14, 2011, 04:30:45 PM
Quote from: orthonorm
Just like the Germans, who in fairness sorta stole a little bit of their weird ideas on "race" from the Jewish thought,

 ???

 :o

Okay. I give up.


Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: orthonorm
Just like the Germans, who in fairness sorta stole a little bit of their weird ideas on "race" from the Jewish thought,

 ???

 :o

Okay. I give up.




Not sure you started.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_policy_of_Nazi_Germany#Racial_policies_regarding_the_Jews_between_1933_to_1940

Any of that language sound familiar in another context?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 14, 2011, 04:51:44 PM
No.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 14, 2011, 04:56:19 PM
Quote
Probably worse? The creation of the State of Israel saw millions fewer deaths than the German invasion of Poland.

The difference: The part of Poland initially targeted by the Third Reich was mostly populated by Germans, the land Israel took over was mostly populated by Arabs.

Quote
There are plenty of Russian Orthodox who have moved there and more are coming as we speak. While they point to some Jewish ancestry, being observant Christians doesn't stop them from settling in Israel.

If you apply for Jewish citizenship you must register as either Jewish or Athiest on the census...selecting either of these is a slap to Christ, in my opinion. http://frmilovan.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/girl-would-rather-die-than-deny-faith/

Quote
Can the Christians there openly evangelize their Muslim neighbours?

Yes, actually. The government follows a policy of tolerance toward other religions and rarely interferes in the activities of non-Muslims.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 04:56:51 PM
No.

OK, who is a Jew?

Who has been asking this question with a variety of answers long before the Nazis developed OVER TIME their rules with loopholes and who continues to do so as a "people" and as a "nation" with often similar results?

Hint: the answer is the plural of the fifth word of the first question I posed, which really was your answer, as the question was rhetorical.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 14, 2011, 04:58:50 PM
No, you don't make up answers for me and tell me that was 'really' it. Watch your tone.  >:( I meant what I said.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 05:07:16 PM
No, you don't make up answers for me and tell me that was 'really' it. Watch your tone.  >:( I meant what I said.

I am not sure if the above actually is a coherent statement within the context of this discussion.

My tone might not be to your liking, but at least I ain't whistling that same old tune. //:="
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Margaret S. on July 14, 2011, 05:08:15 PM
Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

Indeed, it's a silly thing for you to keep bringing up, just like your endless repetition of your childhood anecdotes about Jews talking bad behind Christians' backs etc. You may well have the lowest ratio of new insights to number of posts of anyone on this forum.

A fluent Yiddish speaker in America today? Well, you are a rarity.

Not really. All Chasidic Jewish communities, and some of the stricter "regular" Orthodox communities, regularly use Yiddish as their daily language of communication amongst themselves, with English reserved for outsiders (akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

All Chasidic Jewish kiddies, from a very young age, are bilingual in both Yiddish and the language of their native country.

Same in the UK. You hear Yiddish spoken in Stamford Hill although the dialect can vary from block to block sometimes and there's a difference between older people who have a definite 'Yiddish' accent and the young ones, the under 30s, who speak it like Londoners. A linguist's paradise.

Margart

You mean they vary in their pronunciation of Yiddish or in their pronunciation of English?

By the way, Old Order Amish don't speak High German as an everyday language. They use it in their services and prayers, but their everyday language is quite different and varies from community to community. Most Amish in America came from either Switzerland or the Palatinate, so their spoken dialects are generally derived from one or both of these dialect regions, though now there is also considerable English influence.

Example: in Lancaster County Amish communities, who I believe are largely descended from Palatine settlers (Pfalz), the word for "run" is "laafen", but "house" is "haus", while in High German, "run" is "laufen". This is because in High German, Middle German ou, loufen, merged with û, hûs, as au, so laufen, haus, but in the Palatine region, ou and û developed differently, as aa and au respectively.

In Stamford Hill the kind of Yiddish can vary a lot. I don't know if it's still like this now (I imagine there has been a lot of integration) but when my mother was young there were distinct areas within the neighbourhood depending on where the inhabitants had originally come from.

I didn't make the comment about the Amish. I am sure I know nothing about them  :)

Margaret
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: vamrat on July 14, 2011, 05:10:01 PM
Quote
And pretty much every living thing on the planet.
I agree, it is dangerous.

Quote
One group was last living in Judea nearly 2000 years ago and the other was living in Judea less than 100 years ago

So, using that logic, if I take something of yours, after a time passes, you no longer have claim to it? So, can I steal your car and house? In say, 10 years, they're mine, right? Or 20 years? 50? 100?
So the Jews claim on their land became invalid after a specific amount of time? please remember, their claim to the land wasnt ALWAYS 2000 years old, at one time their claim was new.

Quote
Israel's Law of Return
That IS a pretty twisted rule actually....

primuspilus

Can the American Indians claim the whole of North America and demand that all those of European ancestry move out?

No, not effectively.  There are people who have vested interests in the US staying the way it is, and they have lots and lots in the way of weaponry.  This is the same reason that Israel stays Israeli and not Palestinian.  When it comes to who is in charge morality plays second fiddle to balance of power.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 14, 2011, 05:11:29 PM
Have you ever heard of a book called The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion? You would get a real feel for the Talmudic philosophy held and defended by many members of the Jewish elite.
I just saw this and I'm not sure whether to scream with laughter or well, just scream.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 05:13:22 PM
Quote
And pretty much every living thing on the planet.
I agree, it is dangerous.

Quote
One group was last living in Judea nearly 2000 years ago and the other was living in Judea less than 100 years ago

So, using that logic, if I take something of yours, after a time passes, you no longer have claim to it? So, can I steal your car and house? In say, 10 years, they're mine, right? Or 20 years? 50? 100?
So the Jews claim on their land became invalid after a specific amount of time? please remember, their claim to the land wasnt ALWAYS 2000 years old, at one time their claim was new.

Quote
Israel's Law of Return
That IS a pretty twisted rule actually....

primuspilus

Can the American Indians claim the whole of North America and demand that all those of European ancestry move out?

No, not effectively.  There are people who have vested interests in the US staying the way it is, and they have lots and lots in the way of weaponry.  This is the same reason that Israel stays Israeli and not Palestinian.  When it comes to who is in charge morality plays second fiddle to balance of power.

Without the US that balance of power would change rapidly.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 05:16:32 PM
Have you ever heard of a book called The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion? You would get a real feel for the Talmudic philosophy held and defended by many members of the Jewish elite.
I just saw this and I'm not sure whether to scream with laughter or well, just scream.

I've never read it, but I remember the consensus in the Jewish community was that it was written by a  Russian Orthodox priest named Rev I B Pranaitis? (that sounds Lithuanian to me actually)

EDIT: I just checked; I think I had him confused with the Protocols. He actually wrote "The Talmud Unmasked".
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 05:17:05 PM
Have you ever heard of a book called The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion? You would get a real feel for the Talmudic philosophy held and defended by many members of the Jewish elite.
I just saw this and I'm not sure whether to scream with laughter or well, just scream.

Just saw? Oh youth! And innocence!

A wonderful treatment of the subject in comic (snob: graphic) form is:

(http://www.alljewishlinks.com/wp-content/uploads/images/all/6906-2.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Plot-Secret-Story-Protocols-Elders/dp/0393060454

Recommended.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 14, 2011, 05:22:26 PM
What????? Did he do Mein Kampf too?!

(I jk.)

TA: The cartoons on the side, too much! I want to get this but I would have to hide it under my bed.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 14, 2011, 05:26:10 PM
Have you ever heard of a book called The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion? You would get a real feel for the Talmudic philosophy held and defended by many members of the Jewish elite.
I just saw this and I'm not sure whether to scream with laughter or well, just scream.
Oh sreaming is certainly understandable. It is a horrendous work. I pray the things planned will not come to be.

It is also worth pointing out that this guy gave the blessing for its publication :

(http://josephpatterson.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/st-john_kronstadt.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Cognomen on July 14, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
???
 :o
Okay. I give up.
Not to gang up, but you also still believe that Jews are the Biblical Israel, yet fail to provide any reasoning for this.  Then you get mad when people point out that St. Paul and the Church Fathers teach something different (this includes those of the "Holy Roman Church").

Things get a bit dicey with the issue, but your positions on this are equally as extreme as those on the other end of the spectrum.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 05:28:27 PM
What????? Did he do Mein Kampf too?!

(I jk.)

TA: The cartoons on the side, too much! I want to get this but I would have to hide it under my bed.

Little foggy here on your meaning,  This is a graphic treatment of the development of the "text" and how it was used to harm.

Use the "look inside" feature on the amazon site to get a feel for the style.

Sorry if I ain't getting the irony this time. //:=(

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: vamrat on July 14, 2011, 05:30:52 PM
Quote
And pretty much every living thing on the planet.
I agree, it is dangerous.

Quote
One group was last living in Judea nearly 2000 years ago and the other was living in Judea less than 100 years ago

So, using that logic, if I take something of yours, after a time passes, you no longer have claim to it? So, can I steal your car and house? In say, 10 years, they're mine, right? Or 20 years? 50? 100?
So the Jews claim on their land became invalid after a specific amount of time? please remember, their claim to the land wasnt ALWAYS 2000 years old, at one time their claim was new.

Quote
Israel's Law of Return
That IS a pretty twisted rule actually....

primuspilus

Can the American Indians claim the whole of North America and demand that all those of European ancestry move out?

No, not effectively.  There are people who have vested interests in the US staying the way it is, and they have lots and lots in the way of weaponry.  This is the same reason that Israel stays Israeli and not Palestinian.  When it comes to who is in charge morality plays second fiddle to balance of power.

Without the US that balance of power would change rapidly.

Most likely.  On that line, perhaps it might be best if Israel were to integrate the Palestinians a bit more, just in the interests of their long term survival.  Payback's a [female dog].  

But honestly, I'm not sure how much they can do.  Gaza was a test run.  As it turns out, it's a giant ghetto with Katyusha drive-by's and everything.  If they were to attempt at making something of themselves they would have more of a case but as it is I can't see them getting their own country, and if they did it would be a festering latrine.  The only argument they have is that they have a more recent claim to the land than Israel.  Israel's claim may be 2000 years old but it is backed up by bullets, and as they have been shown, they have no compunction about killing those who contest their claim.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 14, 2011, 05:31:07 PM
Whenever somebody says "not to...", they are about to do that very thing.

This thread makes me want to cry and vomit. I've already done the first. The second should be any minute now.

I thought I did have a right to my opinion and I didn't have to run it by you. What is this, an FBI interrogation room? It's not correct until you think it is?  :-X

Wow, do you have to hate the Jews to be on this board?

At least you noticed that this thread was the place I lost my hope in my church. Thank you for reading something.  :-\
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 05:31:12 PM
Have you ever heard of a book called The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion? You would get a real feel for the Talmudic philosophy held and defended by many members of the Jewish elite.
I just saw this and I'm not sure whether to scream with laughter or well, just scream.
Oh sreaming is certainly understandable. It is a horrendous work. I pray the things planned will not come to be.

It is also worth pointing out that this guy gave the blessing for its publication :

(http://josephpatterson.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/st-john_kronstadt.jpg)

This is great evidence that either he could see that perhaps the garbage and nonsense that text propagates would come to light and maybe bring an end to hating Jews en masse, or a reminder that Saints definitely ain't perfect.

 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 05:35:02 PM
Whenever somebody says "not to...", they are about to do that very thing.

This thread makes me want to cry and vomit. I've already done the first. The second should be any minute now.

I thought I did have a right to my opinion and I didn't have to run it by you. What is this, an FBI interrogation room? It's not correct until you think it is?  :-X

Wow, do you have to hate the Jews to be on this board?

At least you noticed that this thread was the place I lost my hope in my church. Thank you for reading something.  :-\


Please demonstrate to me how I have in this thread shown that I hate Jews.

I upbraid Xenia and the other one for what I find to be hateful talk against Jews. And I agree with Xenia about Zionism on certain points.

Does the question of what it means to be a Jew and Zionism intersect? Of course. Sorry, I have a nuanced view on things.

My crayon box had more than two colors.

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jonathan Gress on July 14, 2011, 05:41:53 PM
Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

Indeed, it's a silly thing for you to keep bringing up, just like your endless repetition of your childhood anecdotes about Jews talking bad behind Christians' backs etc. You may well have the lowest ratio of new insights to number of posts of anyone on this forum.

A fluent Yiddish speaker in America today? Well, you are a rarity.

Not really. All Chasidic Jewish communities, and some of the stricter "regular" Orthodox communities, regularly use Yiddish as their daily language of communication amongst themselves, with English reserved for outsiders (akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

All Chasidic Jewish kiddies, from a very young age, are bilingual in both Yiddish and the language of their native country.

Same in the UK. You hear Yiddish spoken in Stamford Hill although the dialect can vary from block to block sometimes and there's a difference between older people who have a definite 'Yiddish' accent and the young ones, the under 30s, who speak it like Londoners. A linguist's paradise.

Margart

You mean they vary in their pronunciation of Yiddish or in their pronunciation of English?

By the way, Old Order Amish don't speak High German as an everyday language. They use it in their services and prayers, but their everyday language is quite different and varies from community to community. Most Amish in America came from either Switzerland or the Palatinate, so their spoken dialects are generally derived from one or both of these dialect regions, though now there is also considerable English influence.

Example: in Lancaster County Amish communities, who I believe are largely descended from Palatine settlers (Pfalz), the word for "run" is "laafen", but "house" is "haus", while in High German, "run" is "laufen". This is because in High German, Middle German ou, loufen, merged with û, hûs, as au, so laufen, haus, but in the Palatine region, ou and û developed differently, as aa and au respectively.

In Stamford Hill the kind of Yiddish can vary a lot. I don't know if it's still like this now (I imagine there has been a lot of integration) but when my mother was young there were distinct areas within the neighbourhood depending on where the inhabitants had originally come from.

I didn't make the comment about the Amish. I am sure I know nothing about them  :)

Margaret

That makes a lot of sense. Yiddish varied widely among different communities: there were distinct Lithuanian, Polish, Hungarian and Romanian dialects, and even within those areas there was variation. It would be really interesting to know if Yiddish began to differentiate among the communities they settled in London. I don't know anything about that.

The Amish thing was in response to Xenia.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: vamrat on July 14, 2011, 05:43:10 PM
Whenever somebody says "not to...", they are about to do that very thing.

This thread makes me want to cry and vomit. I've already done the first. The second should be any minute now.

I thought I did have a right to my opinion and I didn't have to run it by you. What is this, an FBI interrogation room? It's not correct until you think it is?  :-X

Wow, do you have to hate the Jews to be on this board?

At least you noticed that this thread was the place I lost my hope in my church. Thank you for reading something.  :-\


You do understand the concept of debate, don't you?  One side presents their opinion and the other presents theirs along with supporting evidence (this evidence may also include things that negate your opinion).  Orthonorm wasn't at any point denying your right to your opinion.  He was just offering a different opinion and presenting the reasons why he considered his opinion superior.

Furthermore, the "everyone here hates Jews on this board" is getting old.  You aren't the only one, just the most recent one, and thus you incur my wrath (and for that I apologize).  There are lots of people here that don't hate Jews.  There are plenty of people here who are converts from Judaism, and others still who currently practice Judaism.  I for one don't hate Jews.  They always gave me good grades... ;)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: IsmiLiora on July 14, 2011, 05:44:02 PM
What????? Did he do Mein Kampf too?!

(I jk.)

TA: The cartoons on the side, too much! I want to get this but I would have to hide it under my bed.

Little foggy here on your meaning,  This is a graphic treatment of the development of the "text" and how it was used to harm.

Use the "look inside" feature on the amazon site to get a feel for the style.

Sorry if I ain't getting the irony this time. //:=(


Yeh, I was being cheeky. I saw that it was a history of the text and not the text itself. Sometimes I make a joke and doesn't come out quite right. My apologies.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 14, 2011, 05:44:31 PM
General discussion of how we are to relate to the Jews is one thing and permissible on this public thread, but discussion of the state of Israel and its relations with the surrounding Palestinians is by definition politics. Therefore, I ask that we put an end to all discussion of Israeli/Palestinian relations on this thread and save it for the Politics board. Consider this a formal request.

Thank you.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 14, 2011, 05:45:30 PM
Quote from: vamrat
You aren't the only one, just the most recent one, and thus you incur my wrath (and for that I apologize).

Too late.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Cognomen on July 14, 2011, 05:52:03 PM
Whenever somebody says "not to...", they are about to do that very thing.
Agreed, but that actually wasn't my intent.

Quote
This thread makes me want to cry and vomit. I've already done the first. The second should be any minute now.
Definitely some pretty embarrassing, nasty stuff in here.

Quote
I thought I did have a right to my opinion and I didn't have to run it by you. What is this, an FBI interrogation room? It's not correct until you think it is?  :-X
Of course you have that right, and I didn't mean to interrogate.  When I asked you in the other thread, I was genuinely trying to get your feedback/opinion, but you got standoffish.  This is a discussion board though, and I thought it appropriate to ask.  Additionally, your personal opinions may not be in-line with the actual teachings of the Church.  In that case, you are free to have them, but they are not correct and this should be pointed out to you (happens to me almost constantly).

Quote
Wow, do you have to hate the Jews to be on this board?  ::)
There's seemingly some present on here, but you also mistake any criticism of the nation-state Israel, arguments claiming Jews are Israel, etc. to be hate for Jews.  Feel free to call out the actual hateful stuff, but your discernment on this is greatly lacking.  There are many Jews around the world who are highly critical of Israel.  There are many Jews who do not believe that the country of Israel has anything to do with Biblical Israel.  Again, I'll write something of a disclaimer before I do it, but I don't intend this as an insult but as my perception: some of your views on these issues are not particularly nuanced.  Please don't mistake the legitimate criticism for hatred.     
 
Quote
At least you noticed that this thread was the place I lost my hope in my church. Thank you for reading something.  :-\

I'm sorry that this has happened, but I'm unsure of how to address this.  You can write us all off as anti-Jew if you want, but I urge you not to jeopardize your path due to matters like this.  There are difficult and divisive issues out there, and there are careless and insensitive people (especially on the internet).  Perhaps these type of forums aren't best suited for you, but don't give up on the Church over difficult topics.  You can't legitimately create a church that echoes all of your beliefs.
Prayers headed your way, whether you want them or not.  :police: 
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 07:28:46 PM
???
 :o
Okay. I give up.
Not to gang up, but you also still believe that Jews are the Biblical Israel, yet fail to provide any reasoning for this.  Then you get mad when people point out that St. Paul and the Church Fathers teach something different (this includes those of the "Holy Roman Church").

Things get a bit dicey with the issue, but your positions on this are equally as extreme as those on the other end of the spectrum.

I have to say that when I FIRST read the New Testament (even as a Jew, years ago), I saw "Christians/the Church is the New Israel" all over the place. It was the very first impression I got as I read it. Especially the parable of the wicked vinedressers.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Cognomen on July 14, 2011, 07:58:21 PM
I have to say that when I FIRST read the New Testament (even as a Jew, years ago), I saw "Christians/the Church is the New Israel" all over the place. It was the very first impression I got as I read it. Especially the parable of the wicked vinedressers.

Kinda hard to miss, isn't it?  How could __ million Protestant Fundies be wrong?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 14, 2011, 08:07:11 PM
Interestingly, Fr. Thomas Hopko's exegesis would say the Christians ain't the new Israel per se.

There is a definitive Israel for him and it ain't new.

*possibly undramatic pause*
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 14, 2011, 09:43:54 PM
Interestingly, Fr. Thomas Hopko's exegesis would say the Christians ain't the new Israel per se.

There is a definitive Israel for him and it ain't new.

*possibly undramatic pause*

The term "NEW Israel" can be misleading. Its still ONE Israel, its just that the composition has changed: from 100% physical, national Israel, to 100% Christian, made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ.)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 15, 2011, 12:33:03 AM
Interestingly, Fr. Thomas Hopko's exegesis would say the Christians ain't the new Israel per se.

There is a definitive Israel for him and it ain't new.

*possibly undramatic pause*

The term "NEW Israel" can be misleading. Its still ONE Israel, its just that the composition has changed: from 100% physical, national Israel, to 100% Christian, made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ.)

Not according to Fr. Thomas Hopko, at least not strictly. It is one of his "asides" he makes frequently that I find quite interesting.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 15, 2011, 12:39:29 AM
Interestingly, Fr. Thomas Hopko's exegesis would say the Christians ain't the new Israel per se.

There is a definitive Israel for him and it ain't new.

*possibly undramatic pause*

The term "NEW Israel" can be misleading. Its still ONE Israel, its just that the composition has changed: from 100% physical, national Israel, to 100% Christian, made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ.)

Not according to Fr. Thomas Hopko, at least not strictly. It is one of his "asides" he makes frequently that I find quite interesting.
What is his position and what patristics does he use to back it up?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: SolEX01 on July 15, 2011, 12:40:03 AM
The term "NEW Israel" can be misleading. Its still ONE Israel, its just that the composition has changed: from 100% physical, national Israel, to 100% Christian, made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ.)

But there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ.  If you're going to put on Christ (which I'm sure you won't), you become part of the new Jerusalem and I'm not talking about the city called Jerusalem in the nation called Israel.  As is said in the Resurrection hymns sung early on Easter Sunday morning...

Shine, shine, O New Jerusalem

Edited for content
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 15, 2011, 12:42:33 AM
Interestingly, Fr. Thomas Hopko's exegesis would say the Christians ain't the new Israel per se.

There is a definitive Israel for him and it ain't new.

*possibly undramatic pause*

The term "NEW Israel" can be misleading. Its still ONE Israel, its just that the composition has changed: from 100% physical, national Israel, to 100% Christian, made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ.)

Not according to Fr. Thomas Hopko, at least not strictly. It is one of his "asides" he makes frequently that I find quite interesting.
What is his position and what patristics does he use to back it up?

Everyone and Patristics . . . There is a taxis to exegesis you know.

I'll just put the answer out there and see if anyone has any Patristics for it, then if there is any gruff, I will add his interesting reasoning (again nearly always in passing, I am trying to get him to pin his reasoning down a little bit).

Israel is Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 15, 2011, 01:38:50 AM
When it comes to who is in charge morality plays second fiddle to balance of power.

Sadly this is the truth.  :'(
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 15, 2011, 01:38:50 AM
I thought I did have a right to my opinion and I didn't have to run it by you. What is this, an FBI interrogation room? It's not correct until you think it is?  :-X

That is how you are treating us...

Wow, do you have to hate the Jews to be on this board?

No one here hates Jews. We disagree with Zionism. We believe in universal racial equality, I'm sorry that you don't agree.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 15, 2011, 01:38:51 AM
The term "NEW Israel" can be misleading. Its still ONE Israel, its just that the composition has changed: from 100% physical, national Israel, to 100% Christian, made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ.)

But there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ.  If you're going to put on Christ (which I'm sure you won't), you become part of the new Jerusalem and I'm not talking about the city called Jerusalem in the nation called Israel.  As is said in the Resurrection hymns sung early on Easter Sunday morning...

Shine, shine, O New Jerusalem

Edited for content

All you are doing is agreeing with her... Duhr Duhr Duhr
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 15, 2011, 10:58:24 AM
The term "NEW Israel" can be misleading. Its still ONE Israel, its just that the composition has changed: from 100% physical, national Israel, to 100% Christian, made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ.)

But there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ.  If you're going to put on Christ (which I'm sure you won't), you become part of the new Jerusalem and I'm not talking about the city called Jerusalem in the nation called Israel.  As is said in the Resurrection hymns sung early on Easter Sunday morning...

Shine, shine, O New Jerusalem

Edited for content

All you are doing is agreeing with her... Duhr Duhr Duhr


I realized that too.  ;D
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: SolEX01 on July 15, 2011, 02:30:15 PM
I'm not in agreement with Xenia or with celticfan.  This clearly demonstrates your ignorance in that the new Israel has nothing to do with the modern state of Israel.   ;)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 15, 2011, 02:44:36 PM
I'm not in agreement with Xenia or with celticfan.  This clearly demonstrates your ignorance in that the new Israel has nothing to do with the modern state of Israel.   ;)

I guess you havent been reading our posts, genius. Both Xenia and I know that the New Israel is THE CHURCH. If you'd read through our posts on this thread it'd be pretty obvious that we are anti "State of Israel.

Conrats on showing that you cannot read!

(http://surfwithberserk.com/img/funny/epic_fails/54.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 15, 2011, 03:52:07 PM
I'm not in agreement with Xenia or with celticfan.  This clearly demonstrates your ignorance in that the new Israel has nothing to do with the modern state of Israel.   ;)

I guess you havent been reading our posts, genius. Both Xenia and I know that the New Israel is THE CHURCH. If you'd read through our posts on this thread it'd be pretty obvious that we are anti "State of Israel.

Conrats on showing that you cannot read!

(http://surfwithberserk.com/img/funny/epic_fails/54.jpg)

AGREED! In fact I don't refer to the state as "Israel", I call it the zionist entity for that reason.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jonathan Gress on July 15, 2011, 04:15:05 PM
I'm not in agreement with Xenia or with celticfan.  This clearly demonstrates your ignorance in that the new Israel has nothing to do with the modern state of Israel.   ;)

I guess you havent been reading our posts, genius. Both Xenia and I know that the New Israel is THE CHURCH. If you'd read through our posts on this thread it'd be pretty obvious that we are anti "State of Israel.

Conrats on showing that you cannot read!

(http://surfwithberserk.com/img/funny/epic_fails/54.jpg)

AGREED! In fact I don't refer to the state as "Israel", I call it the zionist entity for that reason.

Would that make the United States the Masonic Entity? Or has someone made that joke before?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: SolEX01 on July 15, 2011, 04:18:38 PM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

"1984" the Movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087803/) was quite good.  You guys should watch it and maybe learn something.   ;D
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: CBGardner on July 15, 2011, 05:05:30 PM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


So true in regards to the spiritual struggle. Is the rest of this thread still going ....
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: SolEX01 on July 15, 2011, 05:21:37 PM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


So true in regards to the spiritual struggle. Is the rest of this thread still going ....

I think this thread has been DOA for quite a while as the sock puppets think they have the upper hand....
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 15, 2011, 08:30:53 PM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


So true in regards to the spiritual struggle. Is the rest of this thread still going ....

I think this thread has been DOA for quite a while as the sock puppets think they have the upper hand....

Yup...they are retreating.

First they try to see if anyone would buy the claim that "The Jews" were behind 911.

Of course you need to be mad as a hatter to buy that one, but if they can rope someone into that, they have a good recruit.

After that failed here they went to a straight up Elders of Zion approach. Jews are responsible for the Genocide (s) against them, The Rothchilds run the World...etc etc. 

Not much traction there..

So finally they need to retreat to Israel bashing which they figure will get them a sympathetic comment or two. It's their last resort pretty much. IMHO
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on July 15, 2011, 08:40:07 PM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


So true in regards to the spiritual struggle. Is the rest of this thread still going ....

I think this thread has been DOA for quite a while as the sock puppets think they have the upper hand....

Yup...they are retreating.

First they try to see if anyone would buy the claim that "The Jews" were behind 911.

Of course you need to be mad as a hatter to buy that one, but if they can rope someone into that, they have a good recruit.

After that failed here they went to a straight up Elders of Zion approach. Jews are responsible for the Genocide (s) against them, The Rothchilds run the World...etc etc. 

Not much traction there..

So finally they need to retreat to Israel bashing which they figure will get them a sympathetic comment or two. It's their last resort pretty much. IMHO
Retreating would imply the opposition generated compelling arguments. As it is, none have been given. More like the sheeple failed to debunk the claims of the so-called anti-Semites™. I would normally encourage you to keep trying, but debunking reality can be a difficult task indeed.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 15, 2011, 08:44:49 PM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


So true in regards to the spiritual struggle. Is the rest of this thread still going ....

I think this thread has been DOA for quite a while as the sock puppets think they have the upper hand....

Yup...they are retreating.

First they try to see if anyone would buy the claim that "The Jews" were behind 911.

Of course you need to be mad as a hatter to buy that one, but if they can rope someone into that, they have a good recruit.

After that failed here they went to a straight up Elders of Zion approach. Jews are responsible for the Genocide (s) against them, The Rothchilds run the World...etc etc.  

Not much traction there..

So finally they need to retreat to Israel bashing which they figure will get them a sympathetic comment or two. It's their last resort pretty much. IMHO
Retreating would imply the opposition generated compelling arguments. As it is, none have been given. More like the sheeple failed to debunk the claims of the so-called anti-Semites™. I would normally encourage you to keep trying, but debunking reality can be a difficult task indeed.

Not really... Most people refused to engage you in any sort of serious manner.  Your claims are either too offensive or too weird/stupid for anyone to take their time with.

That's with the exception of the Jews did 911 claim. That was taken apart in great detail and rather handily I might add.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 15, 2011, 08:52:37 PM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


So true in regards to the spiritual struggle. Is the rest of this thread still going ....

I think this thread has been DOA for quite a while as the sock puppets think they have the upper hand....

Yup...they are retreating.

First they try to see if anyone would buy the claim that "The Jews" were behind 911.

Of course you need to be mad as a hatter to buy that one, but if they can rope someone into that, they have a good recruit.

After that failed here they went to a straight up Elders of Zion approach. Jews are responsible for the Genocide (s) against them, The Rothchilds run the World...etc etc.  

Not much traction there..

So finally they need to retreat to Israel bashing which they figure will get them a sympathetic comment or two. It's their last resort pretty much. IMHO
Retreating would imply the opposition generated compelling arguments. As it is, none have been given. More like the sheeple failed to debunk the claims of the so-called anti-Semites™. I would normally encourage you to keep trying, but debunking reality can be a difficult task indeed.

Not really... Most people refused to engage you in any sort of serious manner.  Your claims are either too offensive or too weird/stupid for anyone to take their time with.

Yup. I would be frankly embarrassed if I had taken the time to put together a "compelling argument" against this silliness.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Stephen St. Pierre on July 15, 2011, 09:00:38 PM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


So true in regards to the spiritual struggle. Is the rest of this thread still going ....

I think this thread has been DOA for quite a while as the sock puppets think they have the upper hand....

Yup...they are retreating.

First they try to see if anyone would buy the claim that "The Jews" were behind 911.

Of course you need to be mad as a hatter to buy that one, but if they can rope someone into that, they have a good recruit.

After that failed here they went to a straight up Elders of Zion approach. Jews are responsible for the Genocide (s) against them, The Rothchilds run the World...etc etc.  

Not much traction there..

So finally they need to retreat to Israel bashing which they figure will get them a sympathetic comment or two. It's their last resort pretty much. IMHO
Retreating would imply the opposition generated compelling arguments. As it is, none have been given. More like the sheeple failed to debunk the claims of the so-called anti-Semites™. I would normally encourage you to keep trying, but debunking reality can be a difficult task indeed.

Not really... Most people refused to engage you in any sort of serious manner.  Your claims are either too offensive or too weird/stupid for anyone to take their time with.

That's with the exception of the Jews did 911 claim. That was taken apart in great detail and rather handily I might add.

Got a link to that debunking? Everyone I know thinks Israel did it too. I thought it was pretty weird all of the Israeli connections around 9/11. Personally, I think if there has been an increase in anti-Semitism that's why. YouTube is full of stuff about it.

I don't know. I would like to see it refuted.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 15, 2011, 09:02:31 PM
YouTube is full of stuff about it.

Fixed.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 15, 2011, 09:03:43 PM
Everyone I know thinks Israel did it too. I thought it was pretty weird all of the Israeli connections around 9/11. Personally, I think if there has been an increase in anti-Semitism that's why. YouTube is full of stuff about it.

Youtube, that unfailing beacon of veracity.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Stephen St. Pierre on July 15, 2011, 09:17:30 PM
:D Good one! Yes, YouTube can be full of it. But most of the stuff I'm talking about is from the TV News. Stuff that was broadcast once and then disappeared into the memory hole. If you go to Fox's website to look for this story they aired in their archives it says "this story no longer exists". Here's the story I'm talking about, they did like a four part series ten minutes a day for four days about it. Israeli Espionage

part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEOecRtBU7U&feature=player_embedded

part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o17SSuuZDkA&feature=player_embedded

part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VclAeKYYvBc&feature=player_embedded

part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVRsmodmCTE&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 15, 2011, 10:19:30 PM
:D Good one! Yes, YouTube can be full of it. But most of the stuff I'm talking about is from the TV News. Stuff that was broadcast once and then disappeared into the memory hole. If you go to Fox's website to look for this story they aired in their archives it says "this story no longer exists". Here's the story I'm talking about, they did like a four part series ten minutes a day for four days about it. Israeli Espionage

part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEOecRtBU7U&feature=player_embedded

part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o17SSuuZDkA&feature=player_embedded

part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VclAeKYYvBc&feature=player_embedded

part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVRsmodmCTE&feature=player_embedded

Well hello! You're new here.. How the heck are ya? How did you learn about this board?... Ever hear of Brother Nataniel? Are you a member of his group....?

Ya..We had an entire thread here about 911. We have an engineer on this forum who took apart all the silly claims.. Maybe someone can remember the title of the thread. It wrapped up about 4 weeks ago.. sorry you missed it.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: vamrat on July 15, 2011, 10:40:36 PM
Everyone I know thinks Israel did it too. I thought it was pretty weird all of the Israeli connections around 9/11. Personally, I think if there has been an increase in anti-Semitism that's why. YouTube is full of stuff about it.

Youtube, that unfailing beacon of veracity.

You dare doubt the font of wisdom that gave unto us Justin Bieber!?!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Stephen St. Pierre on July 15, 2011, 11:22:27 PM
:D Good one! Yes, YouTube can be full of it. But most of the stuff I'm talking about is from the TV News. Stuff that was broadcast once and then disappeared into the memory hole. If you go to Fox's website to look for this story they aired in their archives it says "this story no longer exists". Here's the story I'm talking about, they did like a four part series ten minutes a day for four days about it. Israeli Espionage

part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEOecRtBU7U&feature=player_embedded

part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o17SSuuZDkA&feature=player_embedded

part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VclAeKYYvBc&feature=player_embedded

part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVRsmodmCTE&feature=player_embedded

Well hello! You're new here.. How the heck are ya? How did you learn about this board?... Ever hear of Brother Nataniel? Are you a member of his group....?

Ya..We had an entire thread here about 911. We have an engineer on this forum who took apart all the silly claims.. Maybe someone can remember the title of the thread. It wrapped up about 4 weeks ago.. sorry you missed it.

Hi! Thanks. I had googled "Orthodox Christianity Karl Marx" to see what if anything the Church teaches about Communism. There was one about the Vatican giving Marx the thumbs-up, then the one about his monument getting moved. Some people seem to think Marxism is cool, but I can't see how that could be so I was trying to find what the Orthodox Church teaches about him and his teachings if anything. I found this place is interesting.

Yes, I've heard of Brother Nathaniel. You guys are not big fans I take it from this thread! I am not a member of his group. What is his group? He makes YouTube videos I know. I tried to search for "9/11" but it says it's less than two characters and it won't work. I'll have to try the full words September and eleventh maybe? Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 16, 2011, 01:33:40 AM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

"1984" the Movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087803/) was quite good.  You guys should watch it and maybe learn something.   ;D

You're preaching to the choir mate, love that film.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 16, 2011, 01:33:40 AM
:D Good one! Yes, YouTube can be full of it. But most of the stuff I'm talking about is from the TV News. Stuff that was broadcast once and then disappeared into the memory hole. If you go to Fox's website to look for this story they aired in their archives it says "this story no longer exists". Here's the story I'm talking about, they did like a four part series ten minutes a day for four days about it. Israeli Espionage

part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEOecRtBU7U&feature=player_embedded

part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o17SSuuZDkA&feature=player_embedded

part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VclAeKYYvBc&feature=player_embedded

part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVRsmodmCTE&feature=player_embedded

Well hello! You're new here.. How the heck are ya? How did you learn about this board?... Ever hear of Brother Nataniel? Are you a member of his group....?

Ya..We had an entire thread here about 911. We have an engineer on this forum who took apart all the silly claims.. Maybe someone can remember the title of the thread. It wrapped up about 4 weeks ago.. sorry you missed it.

They have plenty of engineers who disagree with him...
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 16, 2011, 01:33:40 AM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


So true in regards to the spiritual struggle. Is the rest of this thread still going ....

I think this thread has been DOA for quite a while as the sock puppets think they have the upper hand....

Yup...they are retreating.

First they try to see if anyone would buy the claim that "The Jews" were behind 911.

Of course you need to be mad as a hatter to buy that one, but if they can rope someone into that, they have a good recruit.

After that failed here they went to a straight up Elders of Zion approach. Jews are responsible for the Genocide (s) against them, The Rothchilds run the World...etc etc. 

Not much traction there..

So finally they need to retreat to Israel bashing which they figure will get them a sympathetic comment or two. It's their last resort pretty much. IMHO

No, "you people" just gave up on the argument. Sorry.

(http://www.ihasaflavor.com/lolcats/you-lose-mr-bond.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 16, 2011, 10:07:11 AM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


So true in regards to the spiritual struggle. Is the rest of this thread still going ....

I think this thread has been DOA for quite a while as the sock puppets think they have the upper hand....

Yup...they are retreating.

First they try to see if anyone would buy the claim that "The Jews" were behind 911.

Of course you need to be mad as a hatter to buy that one, but if they can rope someone into that, they have a good recruit.

After that failed here they went to a straight up Elders of Zion approach. Jews are responsible for the Genocide (s) against them, The Rothchilds run the World...etc etc. 

Not much traction there..

So finally they need to retreat to Israel bashing which they figure will get them a sympathetic comment or two. It's their last resort pretty much. IMHO

No, "you people" just gave up on the argument. Sorry.

(http://www.ihasaflavor.com/lolcats/you-lose-mr-bond.jpg)

Yes, please declare yourself the Winner.. Perfect..
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 21, 2011, 08:09:44 PM
In Romans Paul spends a great amount of time writing about the Jewish people and how they are still chosen (though "chosen" obviously lacks salvation, they are still "God's people" in a manner of speaking). Certainly we can practice some exegetical acrobatics, but a straight reading of the text displays a few key truths:

1) Those who practice Judaism are in rebellion to God
2) The Jewish people haven't been forsaken and there is a remnant of them who still believe and follow God by following Christ
3) We are to pray for their salvation
4) We are not to act haughtily over them now that we have been grafted into the branch while they have been broken off (some of them, not the entire people).

With the above in mind, certainly we can criticize the nation-state of Israel (though we should equally condemn the actions of the Palestinians who purposefully target civilians), we can even criticize how the Jews supposedly talk about Christians in closed corners.

But when we begin to speak of vast conspiracies or act flippantly towards an entire race and/or religion of people, what do we accomplish for Christ? How easily we forget, or deny, that these Jews are the kin of our Lord and Savior. They are blood relatives of the Theotokos and all the first Holy Disciples. That they have fallen away should sadden us and remind us of how we too were fallen at one point. We should pray for their salvation and serve them. If the conspiracies are true and the Jews run the world, then I hope in my service to them they see Christ. If the conspiracy theories are false (and they are) then I should still seek to love the Jew. Our faith comes from the Jews, our Lord was a Jew, and salvation came through their tribe - that they rebel against God is a matter between them and God.

My great-grandfather ran into problems in Russia because he was a Jew. The Orthodox Church in Russia was complicit with some persecution my great-grandfather faced. Shall I hate the Orthodox Church? Of course not, for it has humans within its body and humans make mistakes. My grandfather was kicked out of his family after converting to Christianity and they took away his inheritance, which caused major financial troubles for him. It even harmed his kids as none of them went to college because they could not afford it. In fact, among my cousins, only my brother and I have been to college (that's out of 28 cousins). Should I hate all Jews for the actions of my grandfather's family? After all, they acted within their faith. But no, I shouldn't hate them, for Christ said we would suffer for His name and that all persecution was ultimately directed at Him (not claiming I have been persecuted).

The point in all of this is that the center of the Christian faith is love. Not just a feeling, but active, creative, central love. When we bash another religion, even if they're wrong, or an entire race, even if individual members have done horrible things, how are we displaying love? How are we letting Christ shine through us? We should be willing to wash the feet of the Palestinian and the Israeli, the Islamic terrorist and the Neo-Nazi, and the list goes on. Certainly we should stand against injustice, but such a stand should be made behind the strength of love, not behind the power of insults.

Anyway, that's my piece. Flame away.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 22, 2011, 01:20:20 AM
In Romans Paul spends a great amount of time writing about the Jewish people and how they are still chosen (though "chosen" obviously lacks salvation, they are still "God's people" in a manner of speaking).
Some people have questioned as to why God would choose this one group and leave out others, such as the Chinese for example. Was there some reason to reject the Chinese people?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Stephen St. Pierre on July 22, 2011, 01:29:53 AM
Truth is love. Ever heard of speaking the truth in love? Or the admonition to Christians not to love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth? Letting Jews away with murder isn't the way to show them 'love'!

I read this entire thread and I didn't see any insults at all. I see some folks pointing out inconvenient truths that certain others on here would rather not have discussed here. But I fail to see how that translates into hate - or how suppressing these inconvenient facts would equal love. If anything this would be an example of loving in word and in tongue because it gives them a free pass just because they call themselves Jews. Real love would call them to repentance and salvation. St. Paul and the others did a lot more than passively pray for them - they marched right into their synagogues and told them what was up!

Sometimes love is telling that truth that someone doesn't want to hear.

Add to that the fact that they did 9/11 and used their media and government positions to blame it all on Arab Muslims, and we have ourselves a Christian predicament don't we? Do we show love for criminals and murderers by letting them get away with their crimes? I think not! I've studied 9/11 - a lot. It is my honest conviction that the Arabs were framed up by the Israelis and by powerful Jews in the US government. Does this mean that I hate anyone? NO!

And where is the love for the Arabs & Muslims being killed by the hundreds and hundreds of THOUSANDS? Being murdered in illegal wars for things they never did?

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." - Exodus 16

"So then, putting away falsehood, let us all speak the truth to our neighbors, for we are all members of one another." - Ephesians 4:25

"Ye that love the Lord, hate evil; the Lord preserves the souls of his saints; he shall deliver them from the hand of sinners. Light is sprung up for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart." - Psalm 97:10,11

Can't someone try to tell the truth without hate for someone? Just because we hate evil doesn't mean we hate the evildoer. Personally I feel sorry for them. The sooner they face the truth - the sooner they can be saved.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jonathan Gress on July 22, 2011, 03:38:15 AM
I like what theo philosopher said. I think it's the most consistent with what an Orthodox Christian viewpoint should be.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 22, 2011, 06:09:03 AM
I see we have an old guest back under a new name (*cough cough*). Try as he may, he can't make the same old drivel sound like anything else. And as much as he tries to call hate something other than hate, it's still hate.

I wonder what things would be like if he could have given all that energy to something positive?  ???
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 22, 2011, 08:44:12 AM
In Romans Paul spends a great amount of time writing about the Jewish people and how they are still chosen (though "chosen" obviously lacks salvation, they are still "God's people" in a manner of speaking).
Some people have questioned as to why God would choose this one group and leave out others, such as the Chinese for example. Was there some reason to reject the Chinese people?

The choosing of the Jewish people isn't the rejection of any other people, rather they are the people through whom salvation came for all. As to why God would choose the Jews, I don't know. Ask Him. All I know is what Scripture says, that the Jews were chosen to bring salvation to the world. Though the vast majority (not all) have rejected their Messiah, that salvation has become available to all men.


As for Stephen, I really see no need to respond. Perhaps you should concern yourself with your own salvation first and your own holiness before concerning yourself with the salvation of the Jews.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 22, 2011, 02:29:25 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 22, 2011, 02:36:24 PM
When someone becomes a Priest are the rest of us rejected? Are we labeled the "Not Priests".. God chooses people based on what is necessary to bring salvation into the world.  

The Jewish people accomplished that mission. Salvation was brought into the World. Had God chosen the Chinese there would have been many philosophical and religious complications overlaying the appearance of the Messiah. Yes? Had he chosen American Indians or the Inca's for an extreme example, would the news of salvation reached the rest of the World. Not likely..
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jharek Carnelian on July 22, 2011, 03:12:38 PM
Quote
Add to that the fact that they did 9/11 and used their media and government positions to blame it all on Arab Muslims, and we have ourselves a Christian predicament don't we?

Nah, just your bog standard false dilemma....
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jonathan Gress on July 22, 2011, 03:17:24 PM
When someone becomes a Priest are the rest of us rejected? Are we labeled the "Not Priests".. God chooses people based on what is necessary to bring salvation into the world.  

The Jewish people accomplished that mission. Salvation was brought into the World. Had God chosen the Chinese there would have been many philosophical and religious complications overlaying the appearance of the Messiah. Yes? Had he chosen American Indians or the Inca's for an extreme example, would the news of salvation reached the rest of the World. Not likely..

To be honest I always found this kind of reasoning strange, and I'm not just talking about your arguments, Marc, but in general. For instance, the idea that God chose the Jews because only they could have received the Law and the Prophets, or that the first Gentile converts were Greeks, because they had the philosophical framework with which to accept the truth. Isn't everything possible with God? If God had become Incarnate among the Chinese or the Americans, couldn't He have figured out a way of converting the world that way, rather than through the Jews and the Greeks? There's nothing inevitable about Jewish or Hellenic "chosenness", although I totally believe there was something Providential.

It seems rather that the reasons God chose this or that nation are utterly unknown to us. I believe God prepared the Jews through the Law because He would later become Incarnate among them, but it could have been any nation. He also prepared the Greeks with their philosophy, but again, could have been any nation. But the fact of His choosing them is in no way predictable from our point of view.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 22, 2011, 04:09:48 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 22, 2011, 04:30:22 PM
How odd of God
To Choose the Jew
But not so odd
As those who choose
The Jewish God
And hate the Jew

- Anonymous
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jonathan Gress on July 22, 2011, 04:39:36 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.

Right, as long as we recognize that "chosen" has what is obviously a highly mysterious and probably eschatological significance. Continuing Jewish chosenness does NOT mean they are guaranteed salvation simply because of their race, which is what certain Judaizing ecumenists and evangelicals have been preaching (e.g. John Hagee).
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 22, 2011, 04:49:40 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.

Right, as long as we recognize that "chosen" has what is obviously a highly mysterious and probably eschatological significance. Continuing Jewish chosenness does NOT mean they are guaranteed salvation simply because of their race, which is what certain Judaizing ecumenists and evangelicals have been preaching (e.g. John Hagee).

Correct, which I hope I stressed that earlier. If not, I would say that being "chosen" as a Jew simply doesn't save a person, it never has (as Scripture is clear on this issue). However, for whatever reason God has chosen the Jewish people as a race and though they are in rebellion (much of my family is included on that), a few stand as a faithful remnant to God, worshiping with our "grafted" brothers and sisters, hoping that one day our people will give up their rebellion towards God.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 22, 2011, 05:03:42 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.

Jeremiah 31:31-37 is something you might want to read, as well as St Matthew 21:28-43 and also St Matthew 23:37-39.


I find it amazing that we can even have this discussion and overlook these clear teachings of Christ Himself.


While it is true that St Paul said that God has not cast off Israel (Romans 11:1), he also explains just what constitutes "Israel" (Romans 2:28-29)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 22, 2011, 05:07:55 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.

Jeremiah 31:31-37 is something you might want to read, as well as St Matthew 21:28-43 and also St Matthew 23:37-39.


I find it amazing that we can even have this discussion and overlook these clear teachings of Christ Himself.


While it is true that St Paul said that God has off Israel (Romans 11:1), he also explains just what constitutes "Israel" (Romans 2:28-29)
No, that doesn't work. If Paul means the Church in Romans 10-12, then how can it be said that the Church as rejected God, but there is still a remnant?

He means the race of Jews in Romans, not the Church.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 22, 2011, 05:09:09 PM
Had God chosen the Chinese there would have been many philosophical and religious complications overlaying the appearance of the Messiah.
This seems to border on vicious racism and discrimination against the beautiful Chinese people and their Oriental culture and way of life.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jonathan Gress on July 22, 2011, 06:56:10 PM
Had God chosen the Chinese there would have been many philosophical and religious complications overlaying the appearance of the Messiah.
This seems to border on vicious racism and discrimination against the beautiful Chinese people and their Oriental culture and way of life.

I don't think he meant it in a racist way, but in the sense that somehow Chinese traditions and philosophy would be deeply incompatible with the Gospel, I suppose in a way the Jewish law or Greek philosophy are not. Personally, I also find this assertion questionable. Fr Seraphim Rose was well known for his appreciation of Taoist philosophy and personally he thought it could be considered a precursor to Christianity. That in itself may be questionable, but at any rate it's not obvious to me the Chinese would be at some kind of disadvantage. In fact, when you consider Divine Providence, which can accomplish anything, I would say the idea some race could be invincibly deaf to the Gospel possibly a dangerous notion.

That being said, I think there may be something in the idea that some nations are more worthy than others to hear the truth, in the sense that some nations, on average, have cooperated more than others with Providence to discover the truth and follow God's law to the best of their ability (the law written in their conscience). Perhaps in some way the Chinese had proven themselves unworthy. But I am speculating wildly here. God moves in mysterious ways.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 22, 2011, 07:14:37 PM
Why do some people refer to Jews as a "race"? We're not a race, we're a religio-nation, which means an ethnic group that (usually) has its own religion. Hitler is the one who said Jews are a "race".
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jonathan Gress on July 22, 2011, 07:25:57 PM
Why do some people refer to Jews as a "race"? We're not a race, we're a religio-nation, which means an ethnic group that (usually) has its own religion. Hitler is the one who said Jews are a "race".

I was using "race" in a broader sense that includes any kind of ethnic group or "religio-nation". Genetically it does appear that the links tying all branches of the Jewish nation together are thin; that being said, certain parts of Jewry are more clearly defined genetically, such as the Ashkenazi Jews.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 22, 2011, 07:31:58 PM
Why do some people refer to Jews as a "race"? We're not a race, we're a religio-nation, which means an ethnic group that (usually) has its own religion. Hitler is the one who said Jews are a "race".

Romans 9:3 has Paul saying that he is of the same bloodline as the Jews who reject Christ. It reads, in part, "συγγενων μου κατα σαρκα (suggenon mou kata sarka)." If we go with the idea he's presenting, it's easy to see he's saying "bloodline." Regardless, he is saying that he is related to those ("of the same flesh") who reject Christ, showing that their beliefs don't impact his view of them being a race.

Likewise, if we take Romans 9:5 into account, to deny the Jews are a race is almost to deny the humanity of Christ, for Paul says, "To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen."

On top of that, we have numerous passages saying that salvation comes through the Jews and then to the Greeks, making a distinction in race, not ideology. To deny the Jews are a race is to deny the prophecies concerning Christ.

Then we have Romans 11, which opens with:

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

But prior to this and after this Paul speaks of how the people have rejected God. So in this case, you can't say, "Well this is referring to the Church." How can the Church have a remnant faithful to God within itself? One cannot be unfaithful to God and be in the Church, so all within the Church would be faithful, thus no need for a remnant. Rather, Paul is speaking of ethnic Israel.

I notice that you do a lot of questioning and attacking other people's positions, but never defend your own. Why is this?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 22, 2011, 07:52:51 PM
Why did you start up a dead an ugly thread without adding much too it other than a lot of words to say what others have already?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 22, 2011, 10:15:45 PM
When someone becomes a Priest are the rest of us rejected? Are we labeled the "Not Priests".. God chooses people based on what is necessary to bring salvation into the world.  

The Jewish people accomplished that mission. Salvation was brought into the World. Had God chosen the Chinese there would have been many philosophical and religious complications overlaying the appearance of the Messiah. Yes? Had he chosen American Indians or the Inca's for an extreme example, would the news of salvation reached the rest of the World. Not likely..

To be honest I always found this kind of reasoning strange, and I'm not just talking about your arguments, Marc, but in general. For instance, the idea that God chose the Jews because only they could have received the Law and the Prophets, or that the first Gentile converts were Greeks, because they had the philosophical framework with which to accept the truth. Isn't everything possible with God? If God had become Incarnate among the Chinese or the Americans, couldn't He have figured out a way of converting the world that way, rather than through the Jews and the Greeks? There's nothing inevitable about Jewish or Hellenic "chosenness", although I totally believe there was something Providential.

It seems rather that the reasons God chose this or that nation are utterly unknown to us. I believe God prepared the Jews through the Law because He would later become Incarnate among them, but it could have been any nation. He also prepared the Greeks with their philosophy, but again, could have been any nation. But the fact of His choosing them is in no way predictable from our point of view.

Forgive me but I think you are making a specious argument. Yes of course, God can do anything. He can make the Moon disappear and he can make the Earth stop spinning on it's axis.

But hasn't he reveled a propensity to cooperate with both Man and Nature? So the best possible way for Salvation to enter the World after the Fall was via the Jewish People. They already had a full blown concept of the Messiah and as you said had been prepared in a way that was unique and not found anywhere else. And, that's exactly what happened so we really don't need to speculate too much.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 22, 2011, 10:26:48 PM
All I'm saying is that Jews are not a race per se, but a PEOPLE. The same as Italians, Greeks or the English are. Being Jewish is not a religion only, but neither is it a race.

Most Jews dislike being referred to as a "race", not only because it is not accurate, but also because Hitler called Jews a race, and used that premise to annihilate them.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 22, 2011, 10:49:23 PM
So the best possible way for Salvation to enter the World after the Fall was via the Jewish People.
I don't see why white people think that it would not be as good for the world if Salvation entered the world after the Fall via the Chinese people.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Stephen St. Pierre on July 22, 2011, 11:14:49 PM
I really think some of you may be beyond help.

It seems to me that Xenia understands the Gospel better than 9/10 of the people claiming to be Christians (Orthodox Christians no less!) on here. Yet, at the same time those who don't seem to understand are the rudest and the most condescending of all. Someone like me shows up who you disagrees with and you assume I'm some other person (who dared to disagree with you), ridiculing me and calling me names, sockpuppet, etc. Maybe you all should go be Jews for a while, and learn a thing or two.


What part of this is so hard to fathom?

“They are the enemies of the cross of Christ.”

- Phillipians 3:18

“Because finding fault with them, He says: ‘Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah - not according to the Covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My Covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. (…) In that He says, “A New Covenant,” He has made the first obsolete.”

- Hebrews 8:8-13

“See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ “

- Matthew 23

“For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ.”

- II John 1:7

“You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. (…) He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

- John 8

“You do not believe, because you are not of My sheep,”

- John 10:26

“The Jews killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all men by hindering us from speaking to the nations that they may be saved – so as always to fill up the measure of their sins.”

- I Thessalonians 2:15-16

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: orthonorm on July 22, 2011, 11:44:16 PM
When someone becomes a Priest are the rest of us rejected? Are we labeled the "Not Priests".. God chooses people based on what is necessary to bring salvation into the world.  

The Jewish people accomplished that mission. Salvation was brought into the World. Had God chosen the Chinese there would have been many philosophical and religious complications overlaying the appearance of the Messiah. Yes? Had he chosen American Indians or the Inca's for an extreme example, would the news of salvation reached the rest of the World. Not likely..

To be honest I always found this kind of reasoning strange, and I'm not just talking about your arguments, Marc, but in general. For instance, the idea that God chose the Jews because only they could have received the Law and the Prophets, or that the first Gentile converts were Greeks, because they had the philosophical framework with which to accept the truth. Isn't everything possible with God? If God had become Incarnate among the Chinese or the Americans, couldn't He have figured out a way of converting the world that way, rather than through the Jews and the Greeks? There's nothing inevitable about Jewish or Hellenic "chosenness", although I totally believe there was something Providential.

It seems rather that the reasons God chose this or that nation are utterly unknown to us. I believe God prepared the Jews through the Law because He would later become Incarnate among them, but it could have been any nation. He also prepared the Greeks with their philosophy, but again, could have been any nation. But the fact of His choosing them is in no way predictable from our point of view.

Forgive me but I think you are making a specious argument. Yes of course, God can do anything. He can make the Moon disappear and he can make the Earth stop spinning on it's axis.

But hasn't he reveled a propensity to cooperate with both Man and Nature? So the best possible way for Salvation to enter the World after the Fall was via the Jewish People. They already had a full blown concept of the Messiah and as you said had been prepared in a way that was unique and not found anywhere else. And, that's exactly what happened so we really don't need to speculate too much.

This opinion seems almost dogmatic to me. Only the Hebrews were the people who could throughout history cooperate enough (and look how little it was!) with God and produce the one human being ever that could be who could throughout her entire life say yes to God.

The Theotokos.

End of discussion.

Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 22, 2011, 11:51:40 PM
So the best possible way for Salvation to enter the World after the Fall was via the Jewish People.
I don't see why white people think that it would not be as good for the world if Salvation entered the world after the Fall via the Chinese people.

I think it actually was the Lord God himself who made that decision... maybe it was just a random choice or a careless error but I doubt it.

If Jesus had been born Chinese at the same time in history, what would have been the religious and philosophical context?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 23, 2011, 03:25:43 AM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 23, 2011, 03:38:17 AM
Forgive me but I think you are making a specious argument. Yes of course, God can do anything. He can make the Moon disappear and he can make the Earth stop spinning on it's axis.

But hasn't he reveled a propensity to cooperate with both Man and Nature? So the best possible way for Salvation to enter the World after the Fall was via the Jewish People. They already had a full blown concept of the Messiah and as you said had been prepared in a way that was unique and not found anywhere else. And, that's exactly what happened so we really don't need to speculate too much.

Such a full blown concept that they denied him and wanted his death?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Stephen St. Pierre on July 23, 2011, 04:07:58 AM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.

http://translate.google.com/

:D :D :D
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jonathan Gress on July 23, 2011, 06:05:10 AM
When someone becomes a Priest are the rest of us rejected? Are we labeled the "Not Priests".. God chooses people based on what is necessary to bring salvation into the world.  

The Jewish people accomplished that mission. Salvation was brought into the World. Had God chosen the Chinese there would have been many philosophical and religious complications overlaying the appearance of the Messiah. Yes? Had he chosen American Indians or the Inca's for an extreme example, would the news of salvation reached the rest of the World. Not likely..

To be honest I always found this kind of reasoning strange, and I'm not just talking about your arguments, Marc, but in general. For instance, the idea that God chose the Jews because only they could have received the Law and the Prophets, or that the first Gentile converts were Greeks, because they had the philosophical framework with which to accept the truth. Isn't everything possible with God? If God had become Incarnate among the Chinese or the Americans, couldn't He have figured out a way of converting the world that way, rather than through the Jews and the Greeks? There's nothing inevitable about Jewish or Hellenic "chosenness", although I totally believe there was something Providential.

It seems rather that the reasons God chose this or that nation are utterly unknown to us. I believe God prepared the Jews through the Law because He would later become Incarnate among them, but it could have been any nation. He also prepared the Greeks with their philosophy, but again, could have been any nation. But the fact of His choosing them is in no way predictable from our point of view.

Forgive me but I think you are making a specious argument. Yes of course, God can do anything. He can make the Moon disappear and he can make the Earth stop spinning on it's axis.

But hasn't he reveled a propensity to cooperate with both Man and Nature? So the best possible way for Salvation to enter the World after the Fall was via the Jewish People. They already had a full blown concept of the Messiah and as you said had been prepared in a way that was unique and not found anywhere else. And, that's exactly what happened so we really don't need to speculate too much.

OK, and where exactly did they get the concept of the Messiah from? I suppose you think they came up with it all by themselves without any divine intervention? I don't know whether or not we are talking at cross-purposes here, but you seem to be saying that the Jews initiated the dispensation by being holier than the rest of the world. Isn't it the other way around? Didn't God make the Jews holy in order to enact His dispensation through them? What the Jews did is cooperate in this dispensation, although even then many of them, and sometimes most of them, did not cooperate, with only a remnant of the Jewish nation actually accepting God's will (such as in the time of Christ).
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Stephen St. Pierre on July 23, 2011, 06:46:41 AM


OK, and where exactly did they get the concept of the Messiah from? I suppose you think they came up with it all by themselves without any divine intervention? I don't know whether or not we are talking at cross-purposes here, but you seem to be saying that the Jews initiated the dispensation by being holier than the rest of the world. Isn't it the other way around? Didn't God make the Jews holy in order to enact His dispensation through them? What the Jews did is cooperate in this dispensation, although even then many of them, and sometimes most of them, did not cooperate, with only a remnant of the Jewish nation actually accepting God's will (such as in the time of Christ).

(http://ed101.bu.edu/StudentDoc/current/ED101sp10/lindsaye/Images/Check%20Mark.jpg)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 23, 2011, 10:30:22 AM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.

My apologies. It translates into, "I was born Jewish too. You can hate the Jews even if you are one." It was to show that his constant claims of being born Jewish doesn't mean much when it comes to the love of Christ. A son can bash his father and still be in the wrong for it; being blood related means nothing.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 23, 2011, 10:36:51 AM
I really think some of you may be beyond help.

It seems to me that Xenia understands the Gospel better than 9/10 of the people claiming to be Christians (Orthodox Christians no less!) on here. Yet, at the same time those who don't seem to understand are the rudest and the most condescending of all. Someone like me shows up who you disagrees with and you assume I'm some other person (who dared to disagree with you), ridiculing me and calling me names, sockpuppet, etc. Maybe you all should go be Jews for a while, and learn a thing or two.


What part of this is so hard to fathom?

“They are the enemies of the cross of Christ.”

- Phillipians 3:18

“Because finding fault with them, He says: ‘Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah - not according to the Covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My Covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. (…) In that He says, “A New Covenant,” He has made the first obsolete.”

- Hebrews 8:8-13

“See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ “

- Matthew 23

“For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ.”

- II John 1:7

“You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. (…) He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

- John 8

“You do not believe, because you are not of My sheep,”

- John 10:26

“The Jews killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all men by hindering us from speaking to the nations that they may be saved – so as always to fill up the measure of their sins.”

- I Thessalonians 2:15-16



And yet we are all enemies. And yet all tribes have rejected God. Why do you choose to reflect this solely upon the Jews? Why do you ignore Romans 9-12 where Paul explicitly says they are still chosen and that God has not rejected them? Why do you ignore that Jesus was a Jew as were all His disciples (and His most blessed and Holy Mother, the Theotokos)?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 23, 2011, 01:53:36 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.

My apologies. It translates into, "I was born Jewish too. You can hate the Jews even if you are one." It was to show that his constant claims of being born Jewish doesn't mean much when it comes to the love of Christ. A son can bash his father and still be in the wrong for it; being blood related means nothing.
Thank you. :)
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jharek Carnelian on July 23, 2011, 03:12:30 PM
Post deleted by meself. User I am responding to is banned I note...
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 23, 2011, 04:21:17 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.

My apologies. It translates into, "I was born Jewish too. You can hate the Jews even if you are one." It was to show that his constant claims of being born Jewish doesn't mean much when it comes to the love of Christ. A son can bash his father and still be in the wrong for it; being blood related means nothing.

But didn't you say that only your grandfather or great grandfather was Jewish? Or did I misunderstand?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 23, 2011, 04:35:42 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.

My apologies. It translates into, "I was born Jewish too. You can hate the Jews even if you are one." It was to show that his constant claims of being born Jewish doesn't mean much when it comes to the love of Christ. A son can bash his father and still be in the wrong for it; being blood related means nothing.

But didn't you say that only your grandfather or great grandfather was Jewish? Or did I misunderstand?

I view it as a race, I view myself as a remnant.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 23, 2011, 04:42:05 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.

My apologies. It translates into, "I was born Jewish too. You can hate the Jews even if you are one." It was to show that his constant claims of being born Jewish doesn't mean much when it comes to the love of Christ. A son can bash his father and still be in the wrong for it; being blood related means nothing.

But didn't you say that only your grandfather or great grandfather was Jewish? Or did I misunderstand?

I view it as a race, I view myself as a remnant.

I was under the impression by something you said in an earlier post, that only a great grandfather was Jewish. That wouldn't make you a Jew, if that's the case. A Jew is someone born of a Jewish mother (or, in some forms of Judaism, a Jewish father.) But people who were born and raised as Jews (like me) greatly dislike being referred to as a "race" because that is what Hitler did, and we see how he used that categorization against the Jewish people.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 23, 2011, 04:46:31 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.

My apologies. It translates into, "I was born Jewish too. You can hate the Jews even if you are one." It was to show that his constant claims of being born Jewish doesn't mean much when it comes to the love of Christ. A son can bash his father and still be in the wrong for it; being blood related means nothing.

But didn't you say that only your grandfather or great grandfather was Jewish? Or did I misunderstand?

I view it as a race, I view myself as a remnant.

I was under the impression by something you said in an earlier post, that only a great grandfather was Jewish. That wouldn't make you a Jew, if that's the case. A Jew is someone born of a Jewish mother (or, in some forms of Judaism, a Jewish father.)

So you're going to go with the old Jewish teaching that was created in order to mock Jewish converts to Christianity?

I didn't know genes followed Jewish rules (they don't). Nor did I say that only my great-grandfather was Jewish.

But you keep moving away from the issue, which is that you've displayed hatred towards the Jews. You haven't dealt with any of the arguments given, and at this point you're simply engaging in ad hominem and red herring tactics to get us to look away from the fact that you have no basis for your beliefs or actions.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 23, 2011, 04:50:24 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.

My apologies. It translates into, "I was born Jewish too. You can hate the Jews even if you are one." It was to show that his constant claims of being born Jewish doesn't mean much when it comes to the love of Christ. A son can bash his father and still be in the wrong for it; being blood related means nothing.

But didn't you say that only your grandfather or great grandfather was Jewish? Or did I misunderstand?

I view it as a race, I view myself as a remnant.

I was under the impression by something you said in an earlier post, that only a great grandfather was Jewish. That wouldn't make you a Jew, if that's the case. A Jew is someone born of a Jewish mother (or, in some forms of Judaism, a Jewish father.)

So you're going to go with the old Jewish teaching that was created in order to mock Jewish converts to Christianity?

I didn't know genes followed Jewish rules (they don't). Nor did I say that only my great-grandfather was Jewish.

But you keep moving away from the issue, which is that you've displayed hatred towards the Jews. You haven't dealt with any of the arguments given, and at this point you're simply engaging in ad hominem and red herring tactics to get us to look away from the fact that you have no basis for your beliefs or actions.

Jewish religious status was always defined as being born of Jewish parents, or having converted to Judaism. In Biblical times, at least one parent had to be the father. In modern times, that one parent has to be the mother. I'm just stating what Jewish religious law says. A person with a Jewish great grandparent is regarded by Jews as 'descended from Jews', but he is not regarded as a Jew.

I'm just trying to make sure people understand that. I grew up as an Orthodox Jew, I'd think I'd know what the religion teaches.

And I have not expressed hatred for Jews as people; if I did, I'd have to hate my relatives and even myself! But I do have issues with, and am very critical of what the modern Jewish religion teaches, esp. about Gentiles and Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 23, 2011, 04:52:28 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.

My apologies. It translates into, "I was born Jewish too. You can hate the Jews even if you are one." It was to show that his constant claims of being born Jewish doesn't mean much when it comes to the love of Christ. A son can bash his father and still be in the wrong for it; being blood related means nothing.

But didn't you say that only your grandfather or great grandfather was Jewish? Or did I misunderstand?

I view it as a race, I view myself as a remnant.

I was under the impression by something you said in an earlier post, that only a great grandfather was Jewish. That wouldn't make you a Jew, if that's the case. A Jew is someone born of a Jewish mother (or, in some forms of Judaism, a Jewish father.)

So you're going to go with the old Jewish teaching that was created in order to mock Jewish converts to Christianity?

I didn't know genes followed Jewish rules (they don't). Nor did I say that only my great-grandfather was Jewish.

But you keep moving away from the issue, which is that you've displayed hatred towards the Jews. You haven't dealt with any of the arguments given, and at this point you're simply engaging in ad hominem and red herring tactics to get us to look away from the fact that you have no basis for your beliefs or actions.

Jewish religious status was always defined as being born of Jewish parents, or having converted to Judaism. In Biblical times, at least one parent had to be the father. In modern times, that one parent has to be the mother. I'm just stating what Jewish religious law says. A person with a Jewish great grandparent is regarded by Jews as 'descended from Jews', but he is not regarded as a Jew.

I'm just trying to make sure people understand that.
Science (genes) trumps Jewish law.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 23, 2011, 05:19:34 PM
I'll tell you what I see going on, too often, in churches...and I say this as someone who was born Jewish, and is now a  Christian.

I see a lot of nonJewish Christians who are afraid to tell the truth as the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament says it.

I think there is a fear of being thought "antisemitic", just as many whites dance around the truth of the race question for fear of being called "racist".

The truth is often painful and not politically correct, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.

The New Testament says that the Jews were the chosen people of God, but it is very clear, from even just a cursory reading of the Scriptures, that the Jews (physically speaking) are no longer the chosen people of God. The Church (which is composed of both Jewish Christians and nonJewish Christians) are Israel. "Israel" has not been dumped for Gentiles: what has happened is the COMPOSITION of what constitutes "Israel" has changed. It went from being 100% national Israel (physical Jews), to 100% anyone who accepts Christ, no matter their background.

The Scriptures also refer to the unconverted Jews as enemies of Christianity, as blinded. You can't deny that for if you do, you deny the truth.

Telling me you were born Jewish doesn't hold any water with me. אני נולדתי גם היהודית. אתם יכולים עדיין שונאים יהודים גם אם אתה אחד.

What I said stands true, as does what Paul says, that the Jews are still chosen and a remnant remain faithful to God.
Could we get a translation of this foreign-language statement, please? Yes, this is a moderatorial directive.

My apologies. It translates into, "I was born Jewish too. You can hate the Jews even if you are one." It was to show that his constant claims of being born Jewish doesn't mean much when it comes to the love of Christ. A son can bash his father and still be in the wrong for it; being blood related means nothing.

But didn't you say that only your grandfather or great grandfather was Jewish? Or did I misunderstand?

I view it as a race, I view myself as a remnant.

I was under the impression by something you said in an earlier post, that only a great grandfather was Jewish. That wouldn't make you a Jew, if that's the case. A Jew is someone born of a Jewish mother (or, in some forms of Judaism, a Jewish father.)

So you're going to go with the old Jewish teaching that was created in order to mock Jewish converts to Christianity?

I didn't know genes followed Jewish rules (they don't). Nor did I say that only my great-grandfather was Jewish.

But you keep moving away from the issue, which is that you've displayed hatred towards the Jews. You haven't dealt with any of the arguments given, and at this point you're simply engaging in ad hominem and red herring tactics to get us to look away from the fact that you have no basis for your beliefs or actions.

Jewish religious status was always defined as being born of Jewish parents, or having converted to Judaism. In Biblical times, at least one parent had to be the father. In modern times, that one parent has to be the mother. I'm just stating what Jewish religious law says. A person with a Jewish great grandparent is regarded by Jews as 'descended from Jews', but he is not regarded as a Jew.

I'm just trying to make sure people understand that.
Science (genes) trumps Jewish law.

Hitler said that too, though...that's the problem.

Here is a reputable site that explains how a Jew is defined:

http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

And this page, also at that site, explains why Jews are not a "race":

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm#Race
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 23, 2011, 05:44:08 PM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 23, 2011, 06:47:19 PM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?
I doubt that Paul never in his life made a mistake.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 23, 2011, 06:54:09 PM
Jewish religious status was always defined as being born of Jewish parents, or having converted to Judaism.
Suppose that someone renounces his Jewish roots and asks for a Catholic burial, such as Bobby Fischer, for example. Is that person considered to be a Jew still according to your criteria?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 23, 2011, 09:51:29 PM
Jewish religious status was always defined as being born of Jewish parents, or having converted to Judaism.
Suppose that someone renounces his Jewish roots and asks for a Catholic burial, such as Bobby Fischer, for example. Is that person considered to be a Jew still according to your criteria?

Would someone who is a Jew still get beat up or rounded up if they have converted to another religion?

Most likely yes, IMHO. Of course it depends on who is doing the beating or rounding up. If it's "Christians" doing it they may cut you a break if you had converted to Christianity. But consider what would happen if you had converted to , let's say, Buddhism.

Clearly it's your Jewish heritage that counts more than anything else, though conversion is some cases may be mitigating.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 23, 2011, 09:52:35 PM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?

A person can convert to Judaism and when they do, they join the Jewish people. This shows that being Jewish is not a race, but a people with its own religion (what is termed a religio-nation).

Black people, who do belong to a race, cannot decide to give up being black and join another race. Asian people, who do belong to a race, cannot decide to give up being Asian and join another race.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 23, 2011, 09:55:02 PM
Jewish religious status was always defined as being born of Jewish parents, or having converted to Judaism.
Suppose that someone renounces his Jewish roots and asks for a Catholic burial, such as Bobby Fischer, for example. Is that person considered to be a Jew still according to your criteria?

Its not my criteria, its what Jewish religious law says. According to that law, Bobby Fischer, if his mother was Jewish, is a Jew and cannot stop being one. A Jew who converts to another religion remains a Jew, he is just one in bad standing.

Its very much like a baptized Roman Catholic who joins another religion. If he decides to return to Roman Catholicism, he does not get re-baptized or re-confirmed, he just goes to confession and he's back in.

Judaism works the same way. A Jew who apostasizes, if he decides to return, does not have to "convert" back.


And what Marc said is true. To give one example, The Nazis rounded up and killed Jews who had become Christians. They even rounded up people who did not consider themselves Jews, but who had a Jewish grandparent (mischling, second degree), or two Jewish grandparents (mischling, first degree). The Nazis, being not only non-Christian but anti-Christian, didn't care one whit about baptismal certificates. They killed Edith Stein, a Jewish woman who had become Roman Catholic and a Carmelite nun; she didn't die because she was Catholic, but because she was born Jewish.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 23, 2011, 09:56:17 PM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?
I doubt that Paul never in his life made a mistake.

It's difficult to understand your poorly constructed sentence. Are you trying to be sarcastic? Are you saying that Paul and the Prophets did make a big mistake? It sounds like it.

Who are you again?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 23, 2011, 11:01:59 PM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?

A person can convert to Judaism and when they do, they join the Jewish people. This shows that being Jewish is not a race, but a people with its own religion (what is termed a religio-nation).

Black people, who do belong to a race, cannot decide to give up being black and join another race. Asian people, who do belong to a race, cannot decide to give up being Asian and join another race.

So you're saying that Paul and the prophets were wrong then. At least come out and admit that rather than being elusive. You're also admitting that the Jesus wasn't a Jew (Hebrews 7:14), that Paul wasn't a Jew (Romans 11:1), or many other established doctrines of Scripture and Tradition.

Please be bold enough to contradict both Scripture and Tradition rather than skirting the issue.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 23, 2011, 11:27:12 PM
It's difficult to understand your poorly constructed sentence. Are you trying to be sarcastic? Are you saying that Paul and the Prophets did make a big mistake? It sounds like it.

Who are you again?

No offense Marc, but can you ever ask someone a question WITHOUT making fun?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 23, 2011, 11:57:00 PM
It's difficult to understand your poorly constructed sentence. Are you trying to be sarcastic? Are you saying that Paul and the Prophets did make a big mistake? It sounds like it.

Who are you again?

No offense Marc, but can you ever ask someone a question WITHOUT making fun?

If I respect them.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: stanley123 on July 24, 2011, 12:19:49 AM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?
I doubt that Paul never in his life made a mistake.

It's difficult to understand your poorly constructed sentence. Are you trying to be sarcastic? Are you saying that Paul and the Prophets did make a big mistake? It sounds like it.

Who are you again?
In the USA it sure looks like a whole lot of Eastern Orthodox Christian women think that St. Paul was wrong when he said that women should cover their heads when praying.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 24, 2011, 03:02:35 AM
It's difficult to understand your poorly constructed sentence. Are you trying to be sarcastic? Are you saying that Paul and the Prophets did make a big mistake? It sounds like it.

Who are you again?

No offense Marc, but can you ever ask someone a question WITHOUT making fun?

If I respect them.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - Matthew 7:12

"Do to no one what you yourself dislike." -Tobit 4:15
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 24, 2011, 08:25:12 AM
It's difficult to understand your poorly constructed sentence. Are you trying to be sarcastic? Are you saying that Paul and the Prophets did make a big mistake? It sounds like it.

Who are you again?

No offense Marc, but can you ever ask someone a question WITHOUT making fun?

If I respect them.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - Matthew 7:12

"Do to no one what you yourself dislike." -Tobit 4:15

Sometimes when I'm acting really stupid, the best thing someone can do for me is mock me.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 24, 2011, 09:15:44 AM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?

What i'm saying is that Jews as a people do not regard themselves as a race, and are in fact highly offended when others do (see my link). And since you are not a Jew, your view should not be held as representative of what most Jews feel.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 24, 2011, 09:21:53 AM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?

What i'm saying is that Jews as a people do not regard themselves as a race, and are in fact highly offended when others do (see my link). And since you are not a Jew, your view should not be held as representative of what most Jews feel.

But Paul and the Prophets considered Jews (or Hebrews, or Israelites) as a race, as a people. I am a part of that people according to Paul's definition and the Prophets' definition.

So you're saying you take Jewish tradition over what Paul says and what the Prophets say? By your definition, Jesus was not a Jew. Is that what you're saying?

Essentially, you're holding onto Jewish tradition to the exclusion of Scripture.

(By the way, by Jewish tradition I am a Jew, so much so that I'm eligible for Israeli citizenship should I ever desire to become one).
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 24, 2011, 01:49:19 PM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?

What i'm saying is that Jews as a people do not regard themselves as a race, and are in fact highly offended when others do (see my link). And since you are not a Jew, your view should not be held as representative of what most Jews feel.

But Paul and the Prophets considered Jews (or Hebrews, or Israelites) as a race, as a people. I am a part of that people according to Paul's definition and the Prophets' definition.

So you're saying you take Jewish tradition over what Paul says and what the Prophets say? By your definition, Jesus was not a Jew. Is that what you're saying?

Essentially, you're holding onto Jewish tradition to the exclusion of Scripture.

(By the way, by Jewish tradition I am a Jew, so much so that I'm eligible for Israeli citizenship should I ever desire to become one).


Look, I am telling you what Jews think, by Jewish law. It would be HIGHLY offensive to mostly all modern Jews if you were to refer to them as a race. Heck, its offensive to ME, and I'm a Christian (albeit a Jew by birth)! There is a REASON WHY antisemites refer to Jews as a race, you know. For some odd reason, antisemites tend to refer to Jews as a "race", and they also refer to female Jews as "Jewesses"....not sure what that last one is all about, but every time I have had someone call me a "Jewess", they turned out to be a neonazi or other antisemite. Ditto for those who refer to me as a "Jew by race".

As for Israeli citizenship, you don't even need to have any Jewish ancestry to become an Israeli citizen by the Law of Return. All you need is to married to a Jew. Israeli secular law is not the same thing as Jewish religious law.

For example: Let's say a Gentile is married to a Jew. And they immigrate to Israel via the Law of Return as the spouse of a Jew. Once they are in Israel, then Orthodox Jewish law applies to them. This is how a Gentile (or someone who is not really Jewish but has some Jewish ancestry) can become a citizen, but not be allowed burial in a Jewish cemetery once there.

Oh, and another thing: to become an Israeli citizen by the Law of Return, its not enough to either have some Jewish ancestry or be married to a Jew. You also can't be a Jew who has joined another religion.

I'm not a zionist by any means, but I know about all of this because my brother-in-law works for the Israeli consulate in NY where my sister and he live. He said they have had a real problem with "messianic Jews" trying to  make aliyah, and he said most don't even have any Jewish ancestry anyway.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 24, 2011, 06:16:27 PM
Quote
Look, I am telling you what Jews think, by Jewish law. It would be HIGHLY offensive to mostly all modern Jews if you were to refer to them as a race. Heck, its offensive to ME, and I'm a Christian (albeit a Jew by birth)! There is a REASON WHY antisemites refer to Jews as a race, you know. For some odd reason, antisemites tend to refer to Jews as a "race", and they also refer to female Jews as "Jewesses"....not sure what that last one is all about, but every time I have had someone call me a "Jewess", they turned out to be a neonazi or other antisemite. Ditto for those who refer to me as a "Jew by race".

So Paul and the Prophets offend you?

You've done nothing to counter the Scriptural claims.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Poppy on July 24, 2011, 06:36:39 PM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?

What i'm saying is that Jews as a people do not regard themselves as a race, and are in fact highly offended when others do (see my link). And since you are not a Jew, your view should not be held as representative of what most Jews feel.

Are you a Jew then Xenia??
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 24, 2011, 06:36:39 PM
It's difficult to understand your poorly constructed sentence. Are you trying to be sarcastic? Are you saying that Paul and the Prophets did make a big mistake? It sounds like it.

Who are you again?

No offense Marc, but can you ever ask someone a question WITHOUT making fun?

If I respect them.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - Matthew 7:12

"Do to no one what you yourself dislike." -Tobit 4:15

Sometimes when I'm acting really stupid, the best thing someone can do for me is mock me.

That doesnt work for everyone.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 24, 2011, 06:39:24 PM
It's difficult to understand your poorly constructed sentence. Are you trying to be sarcastic? Are you saying that Paul and the Prophets did make a big mistake? It sounds like it.

Who are you again?

No offense Marc, but can you ever ask someone a question WITHOUT making fun?

If I respect them.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - Matthew 7:12

"Do to no one what you yourself dislike." -Tobit 4:15
.


1. I didn't actually make fun of him. That was your take since you are apparently gunning for me.

2. I have in the past and will again in the future post a garbled sentence that is hard to understand.

3. Pointing out that his statement was nearly unintelligible and then guessing at what he meant is normal and proper discourse

4. His race baiting drew no criticism from you, only my comment about his poorly constructed sentence. Figures

5. "Who are you again ?" is an  oblique biblical reference that I guess went over your head.. Look it up or have someone else explain it to you.  
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 25, 2011, 12:23:43 AM
So Paul was wrong, as were the Prophets? Is that what you're saying?

What i'm saying is that Jews as a people do not regard themselves as a race, and are in fact highly offended when others do (see my link). And since you are not a Jew, your view should not be held as representative of what most Jews feel.

Are you a Jew then Xenia??

I'm both Jewish and Italian by ethnicity; Christian by religious faith; Caucasian by race.

And I am not expressing what *I* believe necessarily when I explain how Judaism defines a Jew; I am explaining what modern Judaism believes and why Jews are offended when they are called a "race".
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 25, 2011, 12:27:13 AM
Quote
Look, I am telling you what Jews think, by Jewish law. It would be HIGHLY offensive to mostly all modern Jews if you were to refer to them as a race. Heck, its offensive to ME, and I'm a Christian (albeit a Jew by birth)! There is a REASON WHY antisemites refer to Jews as a race, you know. For some odd reason, antisemites tend to refer to Jews as a "race", and they also refer to female Jews as "Jewesses"....not sure what that last one is all about, but every time I have had someone call me a "Jewess", they turned out to be a neonazi or other antisemite. Ditto for those who refer to me as a "Jew by race".

So Paul and the Prophets offend you?

You've done nothing to counter the Scriptural claims.

I have done nothing to counter Scriptural claims because that is not my point here. If you would please read my posts carefully, you will find that I am simply explaining WHY MODERN JEWS TAKE GREAT OFFENSE AT BEING CALLED A RACE. It has NOTHING to do with Scriptural claims (NT), or anything else. I'm just trying to save you some embarassment if you ever meet a Jew and refer to him or her as being a "Jew by race".
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: theo philosopher on July 25, 2011, 06:18:30 AM
Quote
Look, I am telling you what Jews think, by Jewish law. It would be HIGHLY offensive to mostly all modern Jews if you were to refer to them as a race. Heck, its offensive to ME, and I'm a Christian (albeit a Jew by birth)! There is a REASON WHY antisemites refer to Jews as a race, you know. For some odd reason, antisemites tend to refer to Jews as a "race", and they also refer to female Jews as "Jewesses"....not sure what that last one is all about, but every time I have had someone call me a "Jewess", they turned out to be a neonazi or other antisemite. Ditto for those who refer to me as a "Jew by race".

So Paul and the Prophets offend you?

You've done nothing to counter the Scriptural claims.

I have done nothing to counter Scriptural claims because that is not my point here. If you would please read my posts carefully, you will find that I am simply explaining WHY MODERN JEWS TAKE GREAT OFFENSE AT BEING CALLED A RACE. It has NOTHING to do with Scriptural claims (NT), or anything else. I'm just trying to save you some embarassment if you ever meet a Jew and refer to him or her as being a "Jew by race".

You keep trying to squirm out of this via backtracking, but it's not working. You said it was offensive to you.

"Heck, its offensive to ME, and I'm a Christian."

And yet, now you're saying it's not offensive to you? Either Paul and the entirety of the Bible offends you for calling the Jews a race or it doesn't. Either you follow Scripture or you follow Jewish tradition.

Also, "If I ever meet a Jew," you mean at like a family renunion or on the monthly basis that I see my cousins? Not everyone in my family has converted and not a single one gets offended at the idea of calling Jews a "race," depending on they know where you're coming from.

It seems what you're doing is taking you're anecdotal experience with Judaism and applying it to every single Jew out there or even the majority of Jews, when that's hardly the case.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: biro on July 25, 2011, 06:20:32 AM
When will this thread die? Thread, please die.
 :P
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 25, 2011, 09:54:55 AM
Quote
Look, I am telling you what Jews think, by Jewish law. It would be HIGHLY offensive to mostly all modern Jews if you were to refer to them as a race. Heck, its offensive to ME, and I'm a Christian (albeit a Jew by birth)! There is a REASON WHY antisemites refer to Jews as a race, you know. For some odd reason, antisemites tend to refer to Jews as a "race", and they also refer to female Jews as "Jewesses"....not sure what that last one is all about, but every time I have had someone call me a "Jewess", they turned out to be a neonazi or other antisemite. Ditto for those who refer to me as a "Jew by race".

So Paul and the Prophets offend you?

You've done nothing to counter the Scriptural claims.

I have done nothing to counter Scriptural claims because that is not my point here. If you would please read my posts carefully, you will find that I am simply explaining WHY MODERN JEWS TAKE GREAT OFFENSE AT BEING CALLED A RACE. It has NOTHING to do with Scriptural claims (NT), or anything else. I'm just trying to save you some embarassment if you ever meet a Jew and refer to him or her as being a "Jew by race".

You keep trying to squirm out of this via backtracking, but it's not working. You said it was offensive to you.

"Heck, its offensive to ME, and I'm a Christian."

And yet, now you're saying it's not offensive to you? Either Paul and the entirety of the Bible offends you for calling the Jews a race or it doesn't. Either you follow Scripture or you follow Jewish tradition.

Also, "If I ever meet a Jew," you mean at like a family renunion or on the monthly basis that I see my cousins? Not everyone in my family has converted and not a single one gets offended at the idea of calling Jews a "race," depending on they know where you're coming from.

It seems what you're doing is taking you're anecdotal experience with Judaism and applying it to every single Jew out there or even the majority of Jews, when that's hardly the case.

Notice in the Liturgy the reference to "The Christian Race"

This deserves a longer conversation about the meaning of Race in general .

At work..more later
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 25, 2011, 10:59:27 AM
Quote
Look, I am telling you what Jews think, by Jewish law. It would be HIGHLY offensive to mostly all modern Jews if you were to refer to them as a race. Heck, its offensive to ME, and I'm a Christian (albeit a Jew by birth)! There is a REASON WHY antisemites refer to Jews as a race, you know. For some odd reason, antisemites tend to refer to Jews as a "race", and they also refer to female Jews as "Jewesses"....not sure what that last one is all about, but every time I have had someone call me a "Jewess", they turned out to be a neonazi or other antisemite. Ditto for those who refer to me as a "Jew by race".

So Paul and the Prophets offend you?

You've done nothing to counter the Scriptural claims.

I have done nothing to counter Scriptural claims because that is not my point here. If you would please read my posts carefully, you will find that I am simply explaining WHY MODERN JEWS TAKE GREAT OFFENSE AT BEING CALLED A RACE. It has NOTHING to do with Scriptural claims (NT), or anything else. I'm just trying to save you some embarassment if you ever meet a Jew and refer to him or her as being a "Jew by race".

You keep trying to squirm out of this via backtracking, but it's not working. You said it was offensive to you.

"Heck, its offensive to ME, and I'm a Christian."

And yet, now you're saying it's not offensive to you? Either Paul and the entirety of the Bible offends you for calling the Jews a race or it doesn't. Either you follow Scripture or you follow Jewish tradition.

Also, "If I ever meet a Jew," you mean at like a family renunion or on the monthly basis that I see my cousins? Not everyone in my family has converted and not a single one gets offended at the idea of calling Jews a "race," depending on they know where you're coming from.

It seems what you're doing is taking you're anecdotal experience with Judaism and applying it to every single Jew out there or even the majority of Jews, when that's hardly the case.

Notice in the Liturgy the reference to "The Christian Race"

This deserves a longer conversation about the meaning of Race in general .

At work..more later

Fomr the online dictionary:


race 1 (rs)
n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.
5. Biology
a. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
b. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Poppy on July 25, 2011, 11:55:14 AM

Are you a Jew then Xenia??

I'm both Jewish and Italian by ethnicity; Christian by religious faith; Caucasian by race.

And I am not expressing what *I* believe necessarily when I explain how Judaism defines a Jew; I am explaining what modern Judaism believes and why Jews are offended when they are called a "race".

Okies thanks, just checking, hadn't heard you say it for at least two post, was getting worried ^_-
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 26, 2011, 01:27:49 AM

Are you a Jew then Xenia??

I'm both Jewish and Italian by ethnicity; Christian by religious faith; Caucasian by race.

And I am not expressing what *I* believe necessarily when I explain how Judaism defines a Jew; I am explaining what modern Judaism believes and why Jews are offended when they are called a "race".

Okies thanks, just checking, hadn't heard you say it for at least two post, was getting worried ^_-

No need to be rude.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 26, 2011, 05:54:10 AM
It's difficult to understand your poorly constructed sentence. Are you trying to be sarcastic? Are you saying that Paul and the Prophets did make a big mistake? It sounds like it.

Who are you again?

No offense Marc, but can you ever ask someone a question WITHOUT making fun?

If I respect them.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - Matthew 7:12

"Do to no one what you yourself dislike." -Tobit 4:15
.


1. I didn't actually make fun of him. That was your take since you are apparently gunning for me.

2. I have in the past and will again in the future post a garbled sentence that is hard to understand.

3. Pointing out that his statement was nearly unintelligible and then guessing at what he meant is normal and proper discourse

4. His race baiting drew no criticism from you, only my comment about his poorly constructed sentence. Figures

5. "Who are you again ?" is an  oblique biblical reference that I guess went over your head.. Look it up or have someone else explain it to you.  

Way to be a jerk, I knew where you were going.

"It's difficult to understand your poorly constructed sentence" <- That was a completely rude statement, you might as well call him an idiot.

I'm not "gunning" for you, you are just the most arrogant and condescending person I've ever run across and I, along with a lot of people here, find it annoying.

As for people and their "race baiting", I doubt that is what he was intending, but YOU like to interpret it that way.

THE WORLD IS NOT OUT TO GET YOU MATE, WE'LL BE NICE TO YOU WHEN YOU STOP BEING RUDE.  ;D
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Poppy on July 26, 2011, 11:35:38 AM

Are you a Jew then Xenia??

I'm both Jewish and Italian by ethnicity; Christian by religious faith; Caucasian by race.

And I am not expressing what *I* believe necessarily when I explain how Judaism defines a Jew; I am explaining what modern Judaism believes and why Jews are offended when they are called a "race".

Okies thanks, just checking, hadn't heard you say it for at least two post, was getting worried ^_-
wasent rude or the mods wouldn't have let it through...der!! it was just gentle humoured ^_-
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Xenia1918 on July 26, 2011, 02:14:47 PM
Said by a friend of mine, but very true here also:

Defining "antisemitism" is about as easy as defining who is a Jew.  Is Jewishness a religion? A culture? An ethnicity?  Yes, all of those things capture part of Jewishness but none is complete.  This makes it easy to level a charge of anti-semitism (read "anti-Jew"), because the definition of Jew is so nebulous.  The term "antisemitism" is merely a weapon, largely devoid of specific meaning, a tool to silence criticism of a politically, culturally, and economically influential minority.

  Is it anti-Semitic to deny the salvific power of the modern Jewish religion?  If yes, then Traditional Roman Catholics and Orthodox are anti-Semitic.  Is it anti-Semitic to observe that Jews, whether religious or secular often pursue political goals at odds with the interests of the Church and Christian culture?  If yes, then many Christians are anti-Semitic.  Does this mean all traditional Christians keep their pitchforks and/or jackboots handy for convenient pogrom purposes?  I don't think so.  But this is not what those who use the term "anti-semitism" would have you believe. Those labeled with the term are supposed to be the merest step away from unleashing Holocaust II.  This kind of thinking would be called hysteria under other circumstances, but is largely left unchallenged because of the enormous stigma attached to even questioning the use of the term.  It's not about describing truth, it's about power: keeping it and keeping it away from historical opponents.


Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 26, 2011, 04:23:35 PM
Anti Semites badly need to either neuter or get rid of the term Anti Semite.  They hope that without it they will earn a spot at the table of civil discourse. Once most people see that someone is Anti Semetic it often follows that they are not taken seriously or are considered a piriah.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Jonathan Gress on July 26, 2011, 04:39:29 PM
Why don't you define anti-Semitism for us, Marc?
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: GJason on July 26, 2011, 05:37:49 PM
Anti Semites badly need to either neuter or get rid of the term Anti Semite.  They hope that without it they will earn a spot at the table of civil discourse. Once most people see that someone is Anti Semetic it often follows that they are not taken seriously or are considered a piriah.

It's the Jews' term and it's the Jews that throw it around willy-nilly, so it's them that need to get rid of it. It's used primarily to stifle discussion. But you're right it is a ridiculous term.

Once most (unaware) people perceive that someone is "antisemitic" (many times erroneously) then they carry a stigma, and that's why they aren't paid heed. But it's a false stigma 99% of the time as Xenia has so eloquently demonstrated above.

Am I "antisemitic"? Many people would say so I think... but is it actually true? Depends on your definition.

If "antisemites" wish to hunt down and harm or kill Jews - then I certainly AM NOT an "antisemite"!

But if an "antisemite" believes these things:

- Jews are not 'God's Chosen People'... the Church is. God has not abandoned those who He foreknew. They are free to become part of His Church just like everyone else.

- Judaism is anti-Christian, and does not lead to life and salvation - but to death and destruction moreso than other "religions" because they have the Old Testament writings which foretold Christ's coming and His incarnation.


Then I am an "antisemite."

But I am an "antisemite" with truth on my side. And names will never hurt me.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 26, 2011, 06:20:10 PM
Anti Semites badly need to either neuter or get rid of the term Anti Semite.  They hope that without it they will earn a spot at the table of civil discourse. Once most people see that someone is Anti Semetic it often follows that they are not taken seriously or are considered a piriah.

It's the Jews' term and it's the Jews that throw it around willy-nilly, so it's them that need to get rid of it. It's used primarily to stifle discussion. But you're right it is a ridiculous term.

Once most (unaware) people perceive that someone is "antisemitic" (many times erroneously) then they carry a stigma, and that's why they aren't paid heed. But it's a false stigma 99% of the time as Xenia has so eloquently demonstrated above.

Am I "antisemitic"? Many people would say so I think... but is it actually true? Depends on your definition.

If "antisemites" wish to hunt down and harm or kill Jews - then I certainly AM NOT an "antisemite"!

But if an "antisemite" believes these things:

- Jews are not 'God's Chosen People'... the Church is. God has not abandoned those who He foreknew. They are free to become part of His Church just like everyone else.

- Judaism is anti-Christian, and does not lead to life and salvation - but to death and destruction moreso than other "religions" because they have the Old Testament writings which foretold Christ's coming and His incarnation.


Then I am an "antisemite."

But I am an "antisemite" with truth on my side. And names will never hurt me.

There was a time when I questioned the usefulness of the term "antisemite". I thought, perhaps, that nowadays it's mostly a buzzword, used by  supporters of the State of Israel to smear critics. But then you come along, someone so monomaniacally obsessed with the Jews that he will talk about hardly anything else, and that, even after he's been banned from a forum 3 times or more, will continually invent new screen names so he can continue to post his rants, all of them with the same style, voice, and formatting.

I think I get it though. You're a Mossad agent, sent here to show without a doubt that antisemitism is real by posturing as the most absurd caricature of an antisemite.

That's what I'm hoping, at least. Otherwise you really need some help. Let me give you a few hints to start out with: 1. Next time you get banned and need to create a new sockpuppet account, wait a week or so. 2. Modify your signature style. Gentler voice, less yelling, less bold text, fewer lines breaks. Make more jokes. 3. Talk about other stuff. Wait at least a month before you even approach the subject of the Jews. Do it subtly, naturally. Maybe pretend to play the devil's advocate for a while ("okay, the Jews are powerful, but I'm pretty sure they don't own my local 7-11"). Good luck bro.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Marc1152 on July 26, 2011, 06:31:32 PM
Anti Semites badly need to either neuter or get rid of the term Anti Semite.  They hope that without it they will earn a spot at the table of civil discourse. Once most people see that someone is Anti Semetic it often follows that they are not taken seriously or are considered a piriah.

It's the Jews' term and it's the Jews that throw it around willy-nilly, so it's them that need to get rid of it. It's used primarily to stifle discussion. But you're right it is a ridiculous term.

Once most (unaware) people perceive that someone is "antisemitic" (many times erroneously) then they carry a stigma, and that's why they aren't paid heed. But it's a false stigma 99% of the time as Xenia has so eloquently demonstrated above.

Am I "antisemitic"? Many people would say so I think... but is it actually true? Depends on your definition.

If "antisemites" wish to hunt down and harm or kill Jews - then I certainly AM NOT an "antisemite"!

But if an "antisemite" believes these things:

- Jews are not 'God's Chosen People'... the Church is. God has not abandoned those who He foreknew. They are free to become part of His Church just like everyone else.

- Judaism is anti-Christian, and does not lead to life and salvation - but to death and destruction moreso than other "religions" because they have the Old Testament writings which foretold Christ's coming and His incarnation.


Then I am an "antisemite."

But I am an "antisemite" with truth on my side. And names will never hurt me.

A World View dominated by bigotry, racism and religious hatred is certainly not the pinnacle of "Truth"... LOL

Good luck.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 26, 2011, 11:52:23 PM
Anti Semites badly need to either neuter or get rid of the term Anti Semite.  They hope that without it they will earn a spot at the table of civil discourse. Once most people see that someone is Anti Semetic it often follows that they are not taken seriously or are considered a piriah.

It's the Jews' term and it's the Jews that throw it around willy-nilly, so it's them that need to get rid of it. It's used primarily to stifle discussion. But you're right it is a ridiculous term.

Once most (unaware) people perceive that someone is "antisemitic" (many times erroneously) then they carry a stigma, and that's why they aren't paid heed. But it's a false stigma 99% of the time as Xenia has so eloquently demonstrated above.

Am I "antisemitic"? Many people would say so I think... but is it actually true? Depends on your definition.

If "antisemites" wish to hunt down and harm or kill Jews - then I certainly AM NOT an "antisemite"!

But if an "antisemite" believes these things:

- Jews are not 'God's Chosen People'... the Church is. God has not abandoned those who He foreknew. They are free to become part of His Church just like everyone else.

- Judaism is anti-Christian, and does not lead to life and salvation - but to death and destruction moreso than other "religions" because they have the Old Testament writings which foretold Christ's coming and His incarnation.


Then I am an "antisemite."

But I am an "antisemite" with truth on my side. And names will never hurt me.

There was a time when I questioned the usefulness of the term "antisemite". I thought, perhaps, that nowadays it's mostly a buzzword, used by  supporters of the State of Israel to smear critics. But then you come along, someone so monomaniacally obsessed with the Jews that he will talk about hardly anything else, and that, even after he's been banned from a forum 3 times or more, will continually invent new screen names so he can continue to post his rants, all of them with the same style, voice, and formatting.

I think I get it though. You're a Mossad agent, sent here to show without a doubt that antisemitism is real by posturing as the most absurd caricature of an antisemite.

That's what I'm hoping, at least. Otherwise you really need some help. Let me give you a few hints to start out with: 1. Next time you get banned and need to create a new sockpuppet account, wait a week or so. 2. Modify your signature style. Gentler voice, less yelling, less bold text, fewer lines breaks. Make more jokes. 3. Talk about other stuff. Wait at least a month before you even approach the subject of the Jews. Do it subtly, naturally. Maybe pretend to play the devil's advocate for a while ("okay, the Jews are powerful, but I'm pretty sure they don't own my local 7-11"). Good luck bro.
Here's one for you, Iconodule. Stop assuming that the latest newbie who joins this thread is yet another sock puppet of Saint Iaint. Your behavior is starting to reek of vigilanteism and is threatening to squelch what little healthy discussion there actually is on this thread. The moderators are watching very closely for any signs of Saint Iaint's return under yet another pseudonym. We don't need your vigilanteism muddying up the waters.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: celticfan1888 on July 27, 2011, 12:03:05 AM
Why don't you define anti-Semitism for us, Marc?

Anti-Semitism = Not agreeing with everything Jews say and do.  :police:
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: Iconodule on July 27, 2011, 12:05:00 AM
Anti Semites badly need to either neuter or get rid of the term Anti Semite.  They hope that without it they will earn a spot at the table of civil discourse. Once most people see that someone is Anti Semetic it often follows that they are not taken seriously or are considered a piriah.

It's the Jews' term and it's the Jews that throw it around willy-nilly, so it's them that need to get rid of it. It's used primarily to stifle discussion. But you're right it is a ridiculous term.

Once most (unaware) people perceive that someone is "antisemitic" (many times erroneously) then they carry a stigma, and that's why they aren't paid heed. But it's a false stigma 99% of the time as Xenia has so eloquently demonstrated above.

Am I "antisemitic"? Many people would say so I think... but is it actually true? Depends on your definition.

If "antisemites" wish to hunt down and harm or kill Jews - then I certainly AM NOT an "antisemite"!

But if an "antisemite" believes these things:

- Jews are not 'God's Chosen People'... the Church is. God has not abandoned those who He foreknew. They are free to become part of His Church just like everyone else.

- Judaism is anti-Christian, and does not lead to life and salvation - but to death and destruction moreso than other "religions" because they have the Old Testament writings which foretold Christ's coming and His incarnation.


Then I am an "antisemite."

But I am an "antisemite" with truth on my side. And names will never hurt me.

There was a time when I questioned the usefulness of the term "antisemite". I thought, perhaps, that nowadays it's mostly a buzzword, used by  supporters of the State of Israel to smear critics. But then you come along, someone so monomaniacally obsessed with the Jews that he will talk about hardly anything else, and that, even after he's been banned from a forum 3 times or more, will continually invent new screen names so he can continue to post his rants, all of them with the same style, voice, and formatting.

I think I get it though. You're a Mossad agent, sent here to show without a doubt that antisemitism is real by posturing as the most absurd caricature of an antisemite.

That's what I'm hoping, at least. Otherwise you really need some help. Let me give you a few hints to start out with: 1. Next time you get banned and need to create a new sockpuppet account, wait a week or so. 2. Modify your signature style. Gentler voice, less yelling, less bold text, fewer lines breaks. Make more jokes. 3. Talk about other stuff. Wait at least a month before you even approach the subject of the Jews. Do it subtly, naturally. Maybe pretend to play the devil's advocate for a while ("okay, the Jews are powerful, but I'm pretty sure they don't own my local 7-11"). Good luck bro.
Here's one for you, Iconodule. Stop assuming that the latest newbie who joins this thread

Correction, the latest newbie who joins  this thread 1. soon after Saint Iaint has been banned again (2 days in this case) and 2. replicates his posting style and 3. expresses the same viewpoints.

"Vigilante" suggests I am actually taking some action. You know that's impossible. What I can do is point out the obvious.

As for squelching "healthy discussion," what healthy discussion? Please.
Title: Re: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing
Post by: PeterTheAleut on July 27, 2011, 12:14:57 AM
Anti Semites badly need to either neuter or get rid of the term Anti Semite.  They hope that without it they will earn a spot at the table of civil discourse. Once most people see that someone is Anti Semetic it often follows that they are not taken seriously or are considered a piriah.

It's the Jews' term and it's the Jews that throw it around willy-nilly, so it's them that need to get rid of it. It's used primarily to stifle discussion. But you're right it is a ridiculous term.

Once most (unaware) people perceive that someone is "antisemitic" (many times erroneously) then they carry a stigma, and that's why they aren't paid heed. But it's a false stigma 99% of the time as Xenia has so eloquently demonstrated above.

Am I "antisemitic"? Many people would say so I think... but is it actually true? Depends on your definition.

If "antisemites" wish to hunt down and harm or kill Jews - then I certainly AM NOT an "antisemite"!

But if an "antisemite" believes these things:

- Jews are not 'God's Chosen People'... the Church is. God has not abandoned those who He foreknew. They are free to become part of His Church just like everyone else.

- Judaism is anti-Christian, and does not lead to life and salvation - but to death and destruction moreso than other "religions" because they have the Old Testament writings which foretold Christ's coming and His incarnation.


Then I am an "antisemite."

But I am an "antisemite" with truth on my side. And names will never hurt me.

There was a time when I questioned the usefulness of the term "antisemite". I thought, perhaps, that nowadays it's mostly a buzzword, used by  supporters of the State of Israel to smear critics. But then you come along, someone so monomaniacally obsessed with the Jews that he will talk about hardly anything else, and that, even after he's been banned from a forum 3 times or more, will continually invent new screen names so he can continue to post his rants, all of them with the same style, voice, and formatting.

I think I get it though. You're a