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Moderated Forums => Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion => Orthodox-Catholic Discussion => Topic started by: Jetavan on July 08, 2011, 07:49:44 AM

Title: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Jetavan on July 08, 2011, 07:49:44 AM
Would a Roman Catholic decision to ordain women, help or hinder the dialogue for re-union with the Orthodox?

Quote
Cardinal José da Cruz (http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-sees-no-theological-obstacle-women-priests) Policarpo of Lisbon, Portugal, a veteran European prelate at one point considered a contender for the papacy, reportedly has said there’s “no fundamental theological obstacle” to the ordination of women as priests in the Catholic church.
 
According to the text of an interview with a legal publication in Portugal called Oa, Policarpo said that women’s ordination will happen only “when God wants it,” although not in our lifetimes, and that now is not the time to raise the question.
 
“Theologically there is no fundamental obstacle,” Policarpo was quoted as saying. “We could say there’s a tradition, because it’s never been done.”
 
“There’s a fundamental equality among all the members of the church,” the cardinal said. “The problem lies in a strong tradition, which comes from Jesus and from the fact that the churches of the Reformation conceded the priesthood to women.”
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: deusveritasest on July 08, 2011, 08:09:33 AM
Given what it did to the dialogue with the Anglicans? I think the answer is clear.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Nero on July 08, 2011, 08:51:33 AM
Well, the RC Church has had no problem changing millenia-old traditions before :/
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Jetavan on July 08, 2011, 10:14:22 AM
Given what it did to the dialogue with the Anglicans? I think the answer is clear.
But what if the Catholics have a much better argument than the Anglicans?
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: elijahmaria on July 08, 2011, 10:21:17 AM
Given what it did to the dialogue with the Anglicans? I think the answer is clear.
But what if the Catholics have a much better argument than the Anglicans?

Not going to happen. 

I did not understand the Portuguese Cardinal's interview when I first read it.  I gave it a much more favorable spin than perhaps it deserved.

But at the very least, I think it opens up a discussion of what constitutes a "theological" argument.

That is the more interesting part of that interview, as far as I am concerned.

Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: lubeltri on July 08, 2011, 10:40:57 AM
The Cardinal has since "clarified" his thinking about this. He says in the clarification that the Holy Father is right that the priesthood is definitively reserved to men alone. Your Eminence, that's true not only because the Pope says it is. The Pope, in fact, is just confirming the Tradition.

Happy retirement.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: elijahmaria on July 08, 2011, 11:57:38 AM
The Cardinal has since "clarified" his thinking about this. He says in the clarification that the Holy Father is right that the priesthood is definitively reserved to men alone. Your Eminence, that's true not only because the Pope says it is. The Pope, in fact, is just confirming the Tradition.

Happy retirement.

I am still interested in the understanding of theology that was raised by that interview. 

Initially I was willing to give the Cardinal the benefit of the doubt because he seemed to simply be outlining the most recent history of the discussion from the commission through John Paul II's response.

But it is that statement "no theological reason"...that is of interest to me.

I tend to agree with the original commission established to study the issue...that the male priesthood is not an issue of theology...as much as it is an issue of anthropology...telling us more about ourselves than it does about God.  HOWEVER that does not make it any less a permanent part of Tradition, and not to be meddled with or changed.  Why?...because it is in the long tradition of revelation, old and new law.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: JamesRottnek on July 08, 2011, 06:06:26 PM
Well, if Rome were to permit women priests, there is a yes/no answer to your question.  No, union would not be helped, it would be quite possible the biggest obstacle to Rome becoming an Orthodox Patriarchate.  Yes, it would help re-union, because large numbers of Catholics would flee from the Papacy and join the Orthodox Church.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Papist on July 08, 2011, 09:48:11 PM
The Cardinal has since "clarified" his thinking about this. He says in the clarification that the Holy Father is right that the priesthood is definitively reserved to men alone. Your Eminence, that's true not only because the Pope says it is. The Pope, in fact, is just confirming the Tradition.

Happy retirement.

I am still interested in the understanding of theology that was raised by that interview. 

Initially I was willing to give the Cardinal the benefit of the doubt because he seemed to simply be outlining the most recent history of the discussion from the commission through John Paul II's response.

But it is that statement "no theological reason"...that is of interest to me.

I tend to agree with the original commission established to study the issue...that the male priesthood is not an issue of theology...as much as it is an issue of anthropology...telling us more about ourselves than it does about God.  HOWEVER that does not make it any less a permanent part of Tradition, and not to be meddled with or changed.  Why?...because it is in the long tradition of revelation, old and new law.
Actually, it has a great deal to do with theology. I highly suggest listening to this lecture by Dr. Peter Kreeft: http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/09_priestesses.htm (http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/09_priestesses.htm)
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Papist on July 08, 2011, 09:48:12 PM
Well, if Rome were to permit women priests, there is a yes/no answer to your question.  No, union would not be helped, it would be quite possible the biggest obstacle to Rome becoming an Orthodox Patriarchate.  Yes, it would help re-union, because large numbers of Catholics would flee from the Papacy and join the Orthodox Church.
One of the reasons that it will never happen.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Shiny on July 08, 2011, 09:48:12 PM
A friend of mine recently confessed to me that his mother's friend, who is female, became ordained as a priest in the Vatican, however I believe they are a breakaway sect.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: WetCatechumen on July 09, 2011, 06:42:55 AM
A friend of mine recently confessed to me that his mother's friend, who is female, became ordained as a priest in the Vatican, however I believe they are a breakaway sect.
Good Lord save us!

This is almost certainly untrue. The Vatican is so small.

Most likely it was in Rome and was wholly illicit and should not have happened.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Jetavan on July 09, 2011, 11:33:24 AM
A friend of mine recently confessed to me that his mother's friend, who is female, became ordained as a priest in the Vatican, however I believe they are a breakaway sect.
Perhaps connected to womenpriests.org (http://www.womenpriests.org/story.asp)?

"We love our family, the Catholic Church. We fully accept the authority of the Pope. We respect his personal integrity as an outstanding spiritual leader. But we are convinced that the Pope and his advisors are making a serious mistake by dismissing women as priests. We feel obliged in conscience to make our carefully considered reasons known, In doing so, we fulfil our canon law duty to speak out as our present Pope has encouraged us to do. And we do this with deep loyalty to the Church."
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: deusveritasest on July 10, 2011, 05:42:50 AM
it would be quite possible the biggest obstacle to Rome becoming an Orthodox Patriarchate.

Oh for God's sake!  ::)
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Irish Hermit on July 10, 2011, 06:00:45 AM
it would be quite possible the biggest obstacle to Rome becoming an Orthodox Patriarchate.

Oh for God's sake!  ::)

I recall that at the time of the ordination of women in the Anglican communion,
the Orthodox issued strong statements and announced that future bilateral
consultations would have only a theological nature and would not be aimed at the
pursuit of unity. To emphasise this point, the Orthodox decided that from then
on only theologians and not bishops would participate in bilateral seminars,
etc. Whether the Orthodox held to this position, I confess I do not know.
Anybody?

At this time we also saw the publication of a letter by Fr Alexander Schmemann
"Concerning Women's Ordination -a letter to an episcopal friend"
http://www.episcopalnet.org/TRACTS/Concerning Ordination.html
tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/27fz6

This contained some strong statements, especially for a Parisian school-SVS man,
for example, "the ordination of women to priesthood is tantamount for us to a
radical and irreparable mutilation of the entire faith, the rejection of the
whole Scripture, and, needless to say, the end of all "dialogues" .


Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: deusveritasest on July 10, 2011, 06:08:56 AM
it would be quite possible the biggest obstacle to Rome becoming an Orthodox Patriarchate.

Oh for God's sake!  ::)

I recall that at the time of the ordination of women in the Anglican communion,
the Orthodox issued strong statements and announced that future bilateral
consultations would have only a theological nature and would not be aimed at the
pursuit of unity. To emphasise this point, the Orthodox decided that from then
on only theologians and not bishops would participate in bilateral seminars,
etc. Whether the Orthodox held to this position, I confess I do not know.
Anybody?

At this time we also saw the publication of a letter by Fr Alexander Schmemann
"Concerning Women's Ordination -a letter to an episcopal friend"
http://www.episcopalnet.org/TRACTS/Concerning Ordination.html
tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/27fz6

This contained some strong statements, especially for a Parisian school-SVS man,
for example, "the ordination of women to priesthood is tantamount for us to a
radical and irreparable mutilation of the entire faith, the rejection of the
whole Scripture, and, needless to say, the end of all "dialogues" .




I don't understand or sympathize at all. I could list at least a handful of innovations of Rome that appear to damage the faith far more than the ordination of women. This just appears like the uncritical reactionism that is all too common among the Orthodox and social development.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: stanley123 on September 06, 2011, 04:02:26 AM
it would be quite possible the biggest obstacle to Rome becoming an Orthodox Patriarchate.

Oh for God's sake!  ::)

I recall that at the time of the ordination of women in the Anglican communion,
the Orthodox issued strong statements and announced that future bilateral
consultations would have only a theological nature and would not be aimed at the
pursuit of unity. To emphasise this point, the Orthodox decided that from then
on only theologians and not bishops would participate in bilateral seminars,
etc. Whether the Orthodox held to this position, I confess I do not know.
Anybody?

At this time we also saw the publication of a letter by Fr Alexander Schmemann
"Concerning Women's Ordination -a letter to an episcopal friend"
http://www.episcopalnet.org/TRACTS/Concerning Ordination.html
tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/27fz6

This contained some strong statements, especially for a Parisian school-SVS man,
for example, "the ordination of women to priesthood is tantamount for us to a
radical and irreparable mutilation of the entire faith, the rejection of the
whole Scripture, and, needless to say, the end of all "dialogues" .



That is rather strong. I noticed that Anglicans are quoting Romans 16, 1 in support of having women ordained to serve in the Church:
"And I commend to you Phebe, our sister, who is in the ministry of the church, that is in Cenchrae"
Some translate this as deaconess in the Church. Generally, how would the Orthodox Church look upon this passage. Does it sanction the practice of ordaining women as deacons in the Church?
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: mike on September 06, 2011, 05:12:20 AM
Would a Roman Catholic decision to ordain women, help or hinder the dialogue for re-union with the Orthodox?

Quote
Cardinal José da Cruz (http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-sees-no-theological-obstacle-women-priests) Policarpo of Lisbon, Portugal, a veteran European prelate at one point considered a contender for the papacy, reportedly has said there’s “no fundamental theological obstacle” to the ordination of women as priests in the Catholic church.
 
According to the text of an interview with a legal publication in Portugal called Oa, Policarpo said that women’s ordination will happen only “when God wants it,” although not in our lifetimes, and that now is not the time to raise the question.
 
“Theologically there is no fundamental obstacle,” Policarpo was quoted as saying. “We could say there’s a tradition, because it’s never been done.”
 
“There’s a fundamental equality among all the members of the church,” the cardinal said. “The problem lies in a strong tradition, which comes from Jesus and from the fact that the churches of the Reformation conceded the priesthood to women.”

Didn't Metropolitan Kallistos said something similar?

Does it sanction the practice of ordaining women as deacons in the Church?


Yes, and we do it (maybe as not often as we used to do).
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: LBK on September 06, 2011, 07:58:46 AM
Excuse me, but the ancient office of deaconess was a VERY different kettle of fish to that of male deacon. The two offices are not equivalent.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: stanley123 on September 06, 2011, 03:44:10 PM
Would a Roman Catholic decision to ordain women, help or hinder the dialogue for re-union with the Orthodox?

Quote
Cardinal José da Cruz (http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-sees-no-theological-obstacle-women-priests) Policarpo of Lisbon, Portugal, a veteran European prelate at one point considered a contender for the papacy, reportedly has said there’s “no fundamental theological obstacle” to the ordination of women as priests in the Catholic church.
 
According to the text of an interview with a legal publication in Portugal called Oa, Policarpo said that women’s ordination will happen only “when God wants it,” although not in our lifetimes, and that now is not the time to raise the question.
 
“Theologically there is no fundamental obstacle,” Policarpo was quoted as saying. “We could say there’s a tradition, because it’s never been done.”
 
“There’s a fundamental equality among all the members of the church,” the cardinal said. “The problem lies in a strong tradition, which comes from Jesus and from the fact that the churches of the Reformation conceded the priesthood to women.”

Didn't Metropolitan Kallistos said something similar?

Does it sanction the practice of ordaining women as deacons in the Church?


Yes, and we do it (maybe as not often as we used to do).
Something seems to be amiss here: On the one hand women are to keep silent in the Church, and yet on the other hand, they can be ordained as deaconesses?
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: J Michael on September 06, 2011, 04:12:08 PM
Would a Roman Catholic decision to ordain women, help or hinder the dialogue for re-union with the Orthodox?

Quote
Cardinal José da Cruz (http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-sees-no-theological-obstacle-women-priests) Policarpo of Lisbon, Portugal, a veteran European prelate at one point considered a contender for the papacy, reportedly has said there’s “no fundamental theological obstacle” to the ordination of women as priests in the Catholic church.
 
According to the text of an interview with a legal publication in Portugal called Oa, Policarpo said that women’s ordination will happen only “when God wants it,” although not in our lifetimes, and that now is not the time to raise the question.
 
“Theologically there is no fundamental obstacle,” Policarpo was quoted as saying. “We could say there’s a tradition, because it’s never been done.”
 
“There’s a fundamental equality among all the members of the church,” the cardinal said. “The problem lies in a strong tradition, which comes from Jesus and from the fact that the churches of the Reformation conceded the priesthood to women.”

Didn't Metropolitan Kallistos said something similar?

Does it sanction the practice of ordaining women as deacons in the Church?


Yes, and we do it (maybe as not often as we used to do).
Something seems to be amiss here: On the one hand women are to keep silent in the Church, and yet on the other hand, they can be ordained as deaconesses?

I can't comment on the role or state of any contemporary deaconesses, but as I understand it the main role of a deaconess in the ancient Church was to assist women converts during baptism, which of course, was by full immersion, just as it is in many Orthodox and Catholic churches today.

But that really has nothing at all to do with the priesthood or the topic of this thread.  (My, how easily we digress  :)!)
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: NicholasMyra on September 06, 2011, 04:19:52 PM
On the one hand women are to keep silent in the Church
Historically, they haven't. And since there aren't any montanist oracles rolling around and babbling sulfur-fueled prophecies in Orthodoxy (although in Protestantism, I can't say the same) I think they should say a bit more.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: stanley123 on September 06, 2011, 04:26:10 PM
Would a Roman Catholic decision to ordain women, help or hinder the dialogue for re-union with the Orthodox?

Quote
Cardinal José da Cruz (http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-sees-no-theological-obstacle-women-priests) Policarpo of Lisbon, Portugal, a veteran European prelate at one point considered a contender for the papacy, reportedly has said there’s “no fundamental theological obstacle” to the ordination of women as priests in the Catholic church.
 
According to the text of an interview with a legal publication in Portugal called Oa, Policarpo said that women’s ordination will happen only “when God wants it,” although not in our lifetimes, and that now is not the time to raise the question.
 
“Theologically there is no fundamental obstacle,” Policarpo was quoted as saying. “We could say there’s a tradition, because it’s never been done.”
 
“There’s a fundamental equality among all the members of the church,” the cardinal said. “The problem lies in a strong tradition, which comes from Jesus and from the fact that the churches of the Reformation conceded the priesthood to women.”

Didn't Metropolitan Kallistos said something similar?

Does it sanction the practice of ordaining women as deacons in the Church?


Yes, and we do it (maybe as not often as we used to do).
Something seems to be amiss here: On the one hand women are to keep silent in the Church, and yet on the other hand, they can be ordained as deaconesses?

I can't comment on the role or state of any contemporary deaconesses, but as I understand it the main role of a deaconess in the ancient Church was to assist women converts during baptism, which of course, was by full immersion, just as it is in many Orthodox and Catholic churches today.

But that really has nothing at all to do with the priesthood or the topic of this thread.  (My, how easily we digress  :)!)
Anglicans see Romans 16, 1 as sanctioning the ordination of women as priests. So I don't think mention of Romans 16, 1 is a digression.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: J Michael on September 06, 2011, 04:30:46 PM
Would a Roman Catholic decision to ordain women, help or hinder the dialogue for re-union with the Orthodox?

Quote
Cardinal José da Cruz (http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/cardinal-sees-no-theological-obstacle-women-priests) Policarpo of Lisbon, Portugal, a veteran European prelate at one point considered a contender for the papacy, reportedly has said there’s “no fundamental theological obstacle” to the ordination of women as priests in the Catholic church.
 
According to the text of an interview with a legal publication in Portugal called Oa, Policarpo said that women’s ordination will happen only “when God wants it,” although not in our lifetimes, and that now is not the time to raise the question.
 
“Theologically there is no fundamental obstacle,” Policarpo was quoted as saying. “We could say there’s a tradition, because it’s never been done.”
 
“There’s a fundamental equality among all the members of the church,” the cardinal said. “The problem lies in a strong tradition, which comes from Jesus and from the fact that the churches of the Reformation conceded the priesthood to women.”

Didn't Metropolitan Kallistos said something similar?

Does it sanction the practice of ordaining women as deacons in the Church?


Yes, and we do it (maybe as not often as we used to do).
Something seems to be amiss here: On the one hand women are to keep silent in the Church, and yet on the other hand, they can be ordained as deaconesses?

I can't comment on the role or state of any contemporary deaconesses, but as I understand it the main role of a deaconess in the ancient Church was to assist women converts during baptism, which of course, was by full immersion, just as it is in many Orthodox and Catholic churches today.

But that really has nothing at all to do with the priesthood or the topic of this thread.  (My, how easily we digress  :)!)
Anglicans see Romans 16, 1 as sanctioning the ordination of women as priests. So I don't think mention of Romans 16, 1 is a digression.

Agreed--if we're talking about priests/priestesses and not deacons/deaconesses.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Jetavan on October 02, 2012, 02:06:23 PM
From the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/20120930_Priests.html?ref=sunday#1): "Jesus' Priests".
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: orthonorm on October 02, 2012, 05:55:23 PM
From the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/20120930_Priests.html?ref=sunday#1): "Jesus' Priests".

You'd think the NYT hadn't sunk so far as to do a photo essay in an Olan Mills studio.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: FormerReformer on October 02, 2012, 06:51:12 PM
From the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/20120930_Priests.html?ref=sunday#1): "Jesus' Priests".

After reading through it- Wow! Apparently being a "Roman Catholic" WomanPriest/Bishop means you also get to ignore the celibacy rules- over half were married.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Jetavan on January 07, 2013, 10:03:15 AM
Ordain a Lady (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y0S2WlvNTU8) (warning: this is not a spoof).
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: J Michael on January 07, 2013, 10:15:49 AM
From the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/20120930_Priests.html?ref=sunday#1): "Jesus' Priests".

After reading through it- Wow! Apparently being a "Roman Catholic" WomanPriest/Bishop means you also get to ignore the celibacy rules- over half were married.

I hate to disappoint them, but there is, so far, no such thing as a female Roman Catholic priest or bishop.  If there comes a point in my lifetime when there is, I'll have to consider my options very seriously.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: J Michael on January 07, 2013, 10:20:27 AM
From the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/20120930_Priests.html?ref=sunday#1): "Jesus' Priests".

You'd think the NYT hadn't sunk so far as to do a photo essay in an Olan Mills studio.

The NYT, called by some "The New York Slimes", has sunk even further than that "photo essay" would lead one to believe.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Αριστοκλής on January 07, 2013, 11:36:37 AM
Next it will be on History International...H2, another wasteland.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Jetavan on January 12, 2013, 05:54:31 PM
GONZALEZ: In a faith that prohibits females from becoming priests (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/january-11-2013/roman-catholic-women-priests/14476/), these women are rebels, gathering here this afternoon to ordain this woman, Jennifer O’Malley, as a Catholic priest.

(to Jennifer O’Malley): Do you love the Catholic Church?

JENNIFER O’MALLEY: I do. It’s who I am, so I can’t leave. You know, I’ve gone to other churches and they’re beautiful, but I’m Catholic, and I can’t separate myself from that.
....
GONZALEZ: And your response to those who think at worst this is heresy, out and out, and at best some sort of a stunt, really. What do you say to them?

O’MALLEY: You know, it’s a call from God, and I believe it to be a true call, so those other things have to be put aside. And if that means breaking a law within the church, I know within myself, within my intellect and emotionally, that it is the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Charles Martel on January 13, 2013, 12:23:41 PM
Women priests? Soooo.......what's next, male nuns?  ::)

Modernists and liberals like this cardinal are the very reason the Roman Church is imploding in the West.

The day they legitmately ordain women will be the beginning of the end.

Bring on the Chasitisement.

Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Cyrillic on January 13, 2013, 12:41:09 PM
Bring on the Chasitisement.

Someone didn't pay attention in English class I see.

Or is that more Yankish?   ;D
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Aindriú on January 13, 2013, 12:51:44 PM
Bring on the Chasitisement.

Someone didn't pay attention in English class I see.

Or is that more Yankish?   ;D

Yankish?
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Cyrillic on January 13, 2013, 12:54:14 PM
Bring on the Chasitisement.

Someone didn't pay attention in English class I see.

Or is that more Yankish?   ;D

Yankish?

It's even a language. (http://www.angelfire.com/fl5/yanks/yankf.html)
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Charles Martel on January 13, 2013, 08:12:54 PM
Bring on the Chasitisement.

Someone didn't pay attention in English class I see.

Or is that more Yankish?   ;D
Ah, good one.

Thanks for keeping me honest.  ;)
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Aindriú on January 13, 2013, 08:24:50 PM
Bring on the Chasitisement.

Someone didn't pay attention in English class I see.

Or is that more Yankish?   ;D

Yankish?

It's even a language. (http://www.angelfire.com/fl5/yanks/yankf.html)

I hope you don't take that page seriously.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: choy on January 13, 2013, 08:35:38 PM
Met. Kallistos says the same, that the Fathers were silent about women's ordinations (or why men only were ordained).  But that doesn't mean we're ordaining women anytime soon.  We just have to be honest about that fact that there was no solid teaching against it.  At this point we don't have the power to change tradition anyway.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: theistgal on January 13, 2013, 09:26:34 PM
Met. Kallistos says the same, that the Fathers were silent about women's ordinations (or why men only were ordained).  But that doesn't mean we're ordaining women anytime soon.  We just have to be honest about that fact that there was no solid teaching against it.  At this point we don't have the power to change tradition anyway.

I don't get the impression that Metropolitan Kallistos is in favor of ordaining women, just that he's in favor of coming up with better arguments against it.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Peter J on January 13, 2013, 09:53:08 PM
From the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/20120930_Priests.html?ref=sunday#1): "Jesus' Priests".

After reading through it- Wow! Apparently being a "Roman Catholic" WomanPriest/Bishop means you also get to ignore the celibacy rules- over half were married.

How shocking!
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Nephi on January 13, 2013, 10:14:39 PM
O’MALLEY: You know, it’s a call from God, and I believe it to be a true call, so those other things have to be put aside. And if that means breaking a law within the church, I know within myself, within my intellect and emotionally, that it is the right thing to do.
" I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience." - Martin Luther

It's interesting to note that modern RC "reformers" often use similar rhetoric and appeals to conscience.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Nephi on January 13, 2013, 10:19:14 PM
Quote
GONZALEZ: O’Malley is a member of a group called Roman Catholic Women Priests. It was started in 2002 when seven women, in an act of defiance against the Vatican, were ordained as priests by a male bishop in Europe.
So, to RC's, they would be considered validly ordained priests, administering illicit but valid sacraments?
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Marc1152 on January 13, 2013, 10:21:27 PM
Ordain a Lady (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y0S2WlvNTU8) (warning: this is not a spoof).

Very catchy tune...
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Asteriktos on January 13, 2013, 10:40:30 PM
Met. Kallistos says the same, that the Fathers were silent about women's ordinations (or why men only were ordained).  But that doesn't mean we're ordaining women anytime soon.  We just have to be honest about that fact that there was no solid teaching against it.  At this point we don't have the power to change tradition anyway.

I don't get the impression that Metropolitan Kallistos is in favor of ordaining women, just that he's in favor of coming up with better arguments against it.

I agree with this, I'd just add that I think part of it is, going beyond formulating more arguments, Met. Kallistos also that he wants us to engage the world. The early Christians didn't just say "Greek myths are stupid," but they took the time to explain why certain things were wrong, why we believed as we did, etc. I think he wants us to do the same thing in this case, even though many in the world will not in general accept the answers. That way when they reject traditional Christianity it won't be because they didn't have a full picture, but rather because they understood the full picture and rejected it. I think it was Archbp. Fulton Sheen who said, to paraphrase from memory, that many people rejected what they thought was Catholicism, but few actually reject Catholicism as it truly is. I think this is something along the same lines: if they're going to reject Orthodoxy, let's make sure it's not because we didn't explain ourselves clearly, or weren't willing to take the time to engage them.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: choy on January 13, 2013, 11:06:37 PM
Met. Kallistos says the same, that the Fathers were silent about women's ordinations (or why men only were ordained).  But that doesn't mean we're ordaining women anytime soon.  We just have to be honest about that fact that there was no solid teaching against it.  At this point we don't have the power to change tradition anyway.

I don't get the impression that Metropolitan Kallistos is in favor of ordaining women, just that he's in favor of coming up with better arguments against it.

According to the interview I listened to (its on Illumined Heart on ACF, by the way), he said the question whether the Orthodox should ordain women or not has not come up yet, so it is a non-issue at this point.  But he has not found any Patristic source that favors or condemns women ordination.
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Shlomlokh on January 13, 2013, 11:12:07 PM
Quote
GONZALEZ: O’Malley is a member of a group called Roman Catholic Women Priests. It was started in 2002 when seven women, in an act of defiance against the Vatican, were ordained as priests by a male bishop in Europe.
So, to RC's, they would be considered validly ordained priests, administering illicit but valid sacraments?
If I remember my RC jargon correctly, they would be invalid (thus not priestesses) because they are "improper matter." Or something to that effect.

In Christ,
Andrew
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Asteriktos on January 13, 2013, 11:14:11 PM
Met. Kallistos says the same, that the Fathers were silent about women's ordinations (or why men only were ordained).  But that doesn't mean we're ordaining women anytime soon.  We just have to be honest about that fact that there was no solid teaching against it.  At this point we don't have the power to change tradition anyway.

I don't get the impression that Metropolitan Kallistos is in favor of ordaining women, just that he's in favor of coming up with better arguments against it.

According to the interview I listened to (its on Illumined Heart on ACF, by the way), he said the question whether the Orthodox should ordain women or not has not come up yet, so it is a non-issue at this point.  But he has not found any Patristic source that favors or condemns women ordination.

That'd be interesting, as I remember a thread about 8 years ago in which we discussed a book about the issue, in which he and other Orthodox theologians had in fact raised the question. I'll see if I can find it...

EDIT--Found it (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,1152.0.html), that didn't take long...

EDIT2--Reading back over that first quote, I may have misspoke earlier in this thread about what his position is...
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Nicene on January 13, 2013, 11:51:36 PM
It wouldn't help matters and would only make those skeptical of any chance of union even more skeptical. What does this do but cater to the modern tastes of western culture where everyone is totally and absolutely equal regaurdless of any other factor which says otherwise?
Title: Re: Cardinal sees 'no theological obstacle' to women priests
Post by: Nicene on January 13, 2013, 11:52:55 PM

According to the interview I listened to (its on Illumined Heart on ACF, by the way), he said the question whether the Orthodox should ordain women or not has not come up yet, so it is a non-issue at this point.  But he has not found any Patristic source that favors or condemns women ordination.

Like with all innovations and heresies thats probably because it wasn't even considered or done.