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Moderated Forums => Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion => Topic started by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on January 19, 2011, 07:34:47 PM

Title: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on January 19, 2011, 07:34:47 PM
I was reading a Catholic forum, and this made by blood boil.  then I thought, what would be the correct responce to a comment such as this from any non-Orthodox Christian?

here is the comment:

"The "orthodox" confederation of churches is nothing but a schismatic church, a promoter of heresy and adultery, an enemy of Christ whose sole common belief is the hatred towards the Holy Roman Catholic Church and the Vicar of Christ.

There's no reason why you should attend this schismatic church unless you've gone mad and wish to lose your faith."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3426643.0.html

how should one respond to something like this in a Christian way?
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Aindriú on January 19, 2011, 07:40:16 PM
(http://www.screenjabber.com/files/james-kirk-poster.jpg)


Maybe not Christian... per se....  ;D
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: HabteSelassie on January 19, 2011, 07:41:48 PM
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

"The "orthodox" confederation of churches is nothing but a schismatic church, a promoter of heresy and adultery, an enemy of Christ whose sole common belief is the hatred towards the Holy Roman Catholic Church and the Vicar of Christ.

There's no reason why you should attend this schismatic church unless you've gone mad and wish to lose your faith."


Sounds more like the Ku Klux Klan than any Orthodox Churches ;)

I suppose the best reaction would be to ignore such silly arguments, because the only people being schismatic in this context are the people professing such naive arguments in the first place!  The best way to refute schismatics is to let them be in the spirit of love and humility, God knows His own and can surely explain Himself most adeptly.

Quote
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.
Titus 3 NIV

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Aindriú on January 19, 2011, 07:45:25 PM
Arguing with that kind of blanket statement is like a RC arguing with Ialmisry.  ;D

The most you can say is "I disagree, my identity as an Orthodox doesn't hinge on rejecting Roman Catholics. I find God within my faith, and believe it to be the fullness of the Truth."

Maybe not even not that much. The best you can do when people go Triple Lindy on their comments (live or otherwise), is to be the calm one. It ticks them off  ;D, and it makes them look like the bully they are. (kinda like the hot chick hanging out with the ugly chick. The contrast make things look better.  ;D)
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Aindriú on January 19, 2011, 07:49:25 PM
In fact, there was someone that took the Kirk approach.  ;D
Quote
Funny, I used to attend Orthodox churches and they absolutely never say anything bad about the Catholic church, and they pray for reconciliation at every liturgy.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Shlomlokh on January 19, 2011, 07:58:03 PM
I was reading a Catholic forum, and this made by blood boil.  then I thought, what would be the correct responce to a comment such as this from any non-Orthodox Christian?

here is the comment:

"The "orthodox" confederation of churches is nothing but a schismatic church, a promoter of heresy and adultery, an enemy of Christ whose sole common belief is the hatred towards the Holy Roman Catholic Church and the Vicar of Christ.

There's no reason why you should attend this schismatic church unless you've gone mad and wish to lose your faith."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3426643.0.html

how should one respond to something like this in a Christian way?
Those kinds of comments are sickening, and I can guarantee most RCs in real life would not even think about talking to you like that (or about your faith for that matter). I have given up on dialogue with RCs for this reason online, at least. If you try to correct their lies about Orthodoxy, they accuse you of proselytizing. It's beyond ridonkulous. Sometimes it's best to just avoid these things, but if we are in a place where we can't, offer a prayer for them to the Theotokos. We bear our cross and move on. :)

In Christ,
Andrew
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: genesisone on January 19, 2011, 08:14:57 PM
I have to agree overall with the comments above - that you should simply ignore such remarks, unless they are directed specifically to you. That being said, why are you spending time reading RC forums? It seems to me that you already have more than enough on your plate to deal with, as I read and consider your other posts  ;).
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on January 19, 2011, 08:30:01 PM
I have to agree overall with the comments above - that you should simply ignore such remarks, unless they are directed specifically to you. That being said, why are you spending time reading RC forums? It seems to me that you already have more than enough on your plate to deal with, as I read and consider your other posts  ;).

true, very true  ;D  I was actually searching for information about a certain prayer book, and it was on that forum.  I just couldn't resist  ;)


you all are right, it is probably best to just avoit negative comments such as that.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: ChristusDominus on January 19, 2011, 08:43:05 PM
 That website is a RC traditionalist forum so you shouldn't be too surprised. If you do visit such places you are going to have to brace yourself, but I wouldn't pay too much attention to people that speak that way of your faith. You're going to find nuts in every religion.

Also, the person that made that comment has a quote by  Abp. Marcel Lefebvre in his signature. So I would guess he is SSPX.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Lefebvre
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Papist on January 19, 2011, 08:45:10 PM
That website is a RC traditionalist forum so you shouldn't be too surprised. If you do visit such places you are going to have to brace yourself, but I wouldn't pay too much attention to people that speak that way of your faith. You're going to find nuts in every religion.
Agreed. That being said, there are quite a few EOs on this very forum who would say things similar to what was said at fishereaters, but it would be about insulting the Catholic Church.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on January 19, 2011, 08:46:58 PM
That website is a RC traditionalist forum so you shouldn't be too surprised. If you do visit such places you are going to have to brace yourself, but I wouldn't pay too much attention to people that speak that way of your faith. You're going to find nuts in every religion.
Agreed. That being said, there are quite a few EOs on this very forum who would say things similar to what was said at fishereaters, but it would be about insulting the Catholic Church.

that's very true.  as said above, "nuts in every religion."
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Melodist on January 19, 2011, 08:50:02 PM
I looked at the link and the guy made a reference to the "new religion of Vatican II". He claims to believe in papal universal jurisdiction and infallibility but rejects the authority and teacings of the pope.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Aindriú on January 19, 2011, 08:52:42 PM
I looked at the link and the guy made a reference to the "new religion of Vatican II". He claims to believe in papal universal jurisdiction and infallibility but rejects the authority and teacings of the pope.

There are some sedevacantists on there. Also, some see Vatican II itself not the problem, but was hijacked by the "left".
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: sainthieu on January 19, 2011, 09:02:39 PM
"how should one respond to something like this in a Christian way?"

Personally, I'm chuckling.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: FrChris on January 19, 2011, 10:38:53 PM
Just remember to love everyone who speaks ill of you. It is a struggle to do so , but that is our Cross: to love as best as we are able at that time, and in our next breath resolve to love others even more.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Rafa999 on January 19, 2011, 10:54:24 PM
fisheaters forum is not representative of the majority of Roman Catholics.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Orual on February 01, 2011, 01:22:51 PM
I liked the guy who discouraged the OP from visiting an Orthodox church, because Eastern liturgy is so good at seducing lonely TLMers.  :D
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: augustin717 on February 01, 2011, 01:29:51 PM
Well, if it's really funny, I would laugh with them :)
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: UniversalistGuy on February 08, 2011, 02:35:02 PM
I was reading a Catholic forum, and this made by blood boil.  then I thought, what would be the correct responce to a comment such as this from any non-Orthodox Christian?

here is the comment:

"The "orthodox" confederation of churches is nothing but a schismatic church, a promoter of heresy and adultery, an enemy of Christ whose sole common belief is the hatred towards the Holy Roman Catholic Church and the Vicar of Christ.

There's no reason why you should attend this schismatic church unless you've gone mad and wish to lose your faith."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3426643.0.html

how should one respond to something like this in a Christian way?

I went to the site and found this caveat:

Please know that no given post at this forum is indicative (necessarily) of the opinions or attitudes held by the Fish Eaters Website. Opinions expressed at this forum come from a variety of traditional Catholics -- some of whom the site-owner, VoxClamantis, may disagree with vehemently. We're just folks here trying to find our way through the confusion, and worship Christ the best we know how. Some of us are highly educated, some aren't. Some are intellectuals; some are not. Some like to argue; others like to discuss. Some express themselves well; some don't. Some attend Masses offered by priests with ordinary jurisdiction, some attend Masses offered by the S.S.P.X., some attend either one without qualm, and some might attend attend either with qualms. Some see attendance at the N.O. Mass, when no traditional Mass is available, as mandatory barring severe abuse; others avoid the N.O. Mass entirely. This is a discussion forum, not an arm of the Magisterium, not a vehicle of private revelation, and certainly not a replacement for prayer and for the study of Scripture, catechisms, the writings of the Doctors and Saints, and papal and conciliar documents. Take any given post with a grain of salt, check claims for yourself, balance one post against another, read the various opinions over time so you can get a "feel" for the basic premises and attitudes of the various posters, and, please, above all, pray and read authoritative documents and books with imprimaturs. Christ be with us all!

I’d conclude that the post you found offensive should be taken with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: bogdan on February 08, 2011, 03:12:26 PM
I would say that, since the problem is on internet fora, it is best to ignore them or don't go on those kinds of websites at all (there is probably not a lot of edifying material there anyway, compared with the temptations to angst or wanting to fight with people, or what have you).

In real life, I've never met someone who knew what Orthodoxy was, so I haven't really been mocked. If I must explain why I can't eat cheese or something, usually people say, "Oh, that's...cool" and change the subject.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on February 08, 2011, 04:05:44 PM
I would say that, since the problem is on internet fora, it is best to ignore them or don't go on those kinds of websites at all (there is probably not a lot of edifying material there anyway, compared with the temptations to angst or wanting to fight with people, or what have you).

In real life, I've never met someone who knew what Orthodoxy was, so I haven't really been mocked. If I must explain why I can't eat cheese or something, usually people say, "Oh, that's...cool" and change the subject.

sometimes, when at school and I'm fasting (for pre-sanctified liturgy), I find it easier to just say that I don't like the food or I'm allergic when asked, as I tend to get many less mean comments than explaining why I'd bother to fast for my faith.   :-[
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: orthonorm on February 08, 2011, 04:44:01 PM
In my experience people can't mock what they don't know about.

If directly questioned about my "faith", I say I am looking into Orthodoxy, or something of the like.

I believe most think I am speaking Judaism and run in fear of the anti-Semite card.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: katherineofdixie on February 10, 2011, 03:19:07 PM
I pass along to you what my dear ole daddy used to tell me when I was your age: "When arguing with a fool, first make sure that he is not similarly engaged."
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Jharek Carnelian on February 21, 2011, 03:08:43 PM
Quote
I was reading a Catholic forum, and this made by blood boil.  then I thought, what would be the correct responce to a comment such as this from any non-Orthodox Christian?

here is the comment:

"The "orthodox" confederation of churches is nothing but a schismatic church, a promoter of heresy and adultery, an enemy of Christ whose sole common belief is the hatred towards the Holy Roman Catholic Church and the Vicar of Christ.

There's no reason why you should attend this schismatic church unless you've gone mad and wish to lose your faith."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3426643.0.html



Whoa there is something I'd be saying myself. Firstly, I am non-Orthodox but many of my family members are and I'd ask the person to bear in mind there are real people behind these generalised comments that you are throwing about.

If they couldn't moderate their tone then I'd simply bid them good day. On a forum I'd place them on ignore if possible. If that was not an option I'd simply not deal with them. In real life I'd try and explain why they are addressing a perception and not what is really believed. If they didn't want to hear this again after a bit I'd figure my best option would be to quietly try and demonstrate by my behaviour why this wrong.

how should one respond to something like this in a Christian way?
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: PeaceSerenity on February 23, 2011, 12:07:39 AM
In my experience people can't mock what they don't know about.

If directly questioned about my "faith", I say I am looking into Orthodoxy, or something of the like.

I believe most think I am speaking Judaism and run in fear of the anti-Semite card.

Yeah, I often get the:

"So, what kind of Christian are you?"
"Orthodox"
"Oh, I don't know why I thought you were Christian" [then give me an embarrassed look and walk away before I can explain]

People on forums feel safer and more comfortable because they are behind the screen. If they are not open to logical conversation, then don't bother, you'll only get yourself angry and critical....and then you realize how much time you wasted… :)
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: vasily on March 01, 2011, 09:48:49 AM
Glory to Jesus Christ,

 There are videos on youtube that are out to discredit the Orthodox Church,also. Some other websites that do the same are: Davidmacd.com and credo.stormloader.com, which is by James Likoudis.

Some examples of the bashing are:
The Orthodox have not had a council since 787 AD.
The Orthodox have many "heads" and no authority.
It is only the Christ given ministry of Peter that can unify all the churches.
Peter is the "Rock" and "Key bearer" for the universal church.
The Orthodox Church started in 1054 AD.
Rome is the center of Christianity.
Constantinople has no Apostolic succession.

Then there are the quotes from the early Church Fathers supporting Rome's authority and Peter's primacy and authority.

I honestly can say this foolishness does not exist on Orthodox websites or on youtube.

Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: elijahmaria on March 01, 2011, 11:22:33 AM


I honestly can say this foolishness does not exist on Orthodox websites or on youtube.



Sure it does and you should know because you just posted this link in another thread.  This is only indicative of much worse at Orthodox websites, which Catholics do read, and to which they find ways of responding...not necessarily productive ways as the topic of this thread indicates.

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/vatican.htm

There is an interesting note of realism here, which refers indirectly to what Patriarch Kyrill said the day before - many in Russia do ‘fear the Catholic Church’. Already in the thirteenth century Russia was invaded by papally-sponsored crusaders, the Teutonic Knights, who came pillaging and raping. This effectively was a stab in the back, for Russia had been invaded at the same time from the east by the Mongols and Tartars. Indeed, their yoke proved to be much lighter than that of the Catholics. The papacy has still not apologised for this, which at least it recently did for the sack of the Christian Capital of Constantinople and the barbarian massacres perpetrated there by Catholic invaders in 1204.

Then Russia was invaded four times between 1812 and 1941 by Catholics, in 1854 by a Catholic-Protestant-Muslim alliance, preached by the French Catholic authorities as a crusade against the Church of God. After 1917 Catholic interventionists attacked the Orthodox Church in the Ukraine, forming an anti-Orthodox Uniat pact with the atheist and satanic Bolsheviks. The same Uniats provided recruits for the Waffen SS in the Second World War. In the 1940s, and again as recently as the 1990s, the Vatican also encouraged massacres of Orthodox in Serbia, with over 700,000 dead.

Many of the worst Catholic war criminals in the 1940s were Franciscan monks, who from 1945 on were protected by the Vatican through their ‘ratlines’, so that they could evade hanging with other war criminals. Their leader, Archbishop Stepinac, was actually recently canonised by the Vatican, joining other serial murderers among its ‘saints’, like ‘St’ Josaphat and ‘St’ Andrew Bobola, the robber of souls, canonised in 1938. Then, as mentioned above by the Patriarch, there is what the Catholic Church did in the west of the Ukraine less than twenty years ago.

‘Fear the Catholic Church’ – yes, of course, the facts of history mean that, like all Orthodox, Russian Orthodox do fear it. However, more correctly, we should say ‘fear the Vatican’, for relations with ordinary Catholics are good and indeed Orthodox find many Catholics very close to them in spirit, only lapsed in certain respects. Average Catholics generally have no idea of the atrocious crimes committed down the centuries in their name but behind their backs by their institutionalised Church. On discovering them, they find them horrific and obscene.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: podkarpatska on March 01, 2011, 11:50:08 AM
Glory to Jesus Christ,

 There are videos on youtube that are out to discredit the Orthodox Church,also. Some other websites that do the same are: Davidmacd.com and credo.stormloader.com, which is by James Likoudis.

Some examples of the bashing are:
The Orthodox have not had a council since 787 AD.
The Orthodox have many "heads" and no authority.
It is only the Christ given ministry of Peter that can unify all the churches.
Peter is the "Rock" and "Key bearer" for the universal church.
The Orthodox Church started in 1054 AD.
Rome is the center of Christianity.
Constantinople has no Apostolic succession.

Then there are the quotes from the early Church Fathers supporting Rome's authority and Peter's primacy and authority.

I honestly can say this foolishness does not exist on Orthodox websites or on youtube.



There is enough mean spirited and deluded vitriol circulating from either the West or the East.

There are plenty of websites, publications, books and speakers from within both the Catholic and the Orthodox world who espouse outrageous positions about one Church or the other.

All of us need to keep in mind the words of the Master found in Matthew 7:3-5:  "Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Jharek Carnelian on March 01, 2011, 12:26:18 PM
Glory to Jesus Christ,

 There are videos on youtube that are out to discredit the Orthodox Church,also. Some other websites that do the same are: Davidmacd.com and credo.stormloader.com, which is by James Likoudis.

Some examples of the bashing are:
The Orthodox have not had a council since 787 AD.
The Orthodox have many "heads" and no authority.
It is only the Christ given ministry of Peter that can unify all the churches.
Peter is the "Rock" and "Key bearer" for the universal church.
The Orthodox Church started in 1054 AD.
Rome is the center of Christianity.
Constantinople has no Apostolic succession.

Then there are the quotes from the early Church Fathers supporting Rome's authority and Peter's primacy and authority.

I honestly can say this foolishness does not exist on Orthodox websites or on youtube.



There is enough mean spirited and deluded vitriol circulating from either the West or the East.

There are plenty of websites, publications, books and speakers from within both the Catholic and the Orthodox world who espouse outrageous positions about one Church or the other.

All of us need to keep in mind the words of the Master found in Matthew 7:3-5:  "Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

Sadly true - been Catholic myself but also havin Orthodox family members I get to see both sides of this debate in living action and at times the outbursts from either side are not very edifying to put it mildly.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: henrikhankhagnell on March 06, 2011, 05:01:27 PM
That website is a RC traditionalist forum so you shouldn't be too surprised. If you do visit such places you are going to have to brace yourself, but I wouldn't pay too much attention to people that speak that way of your faith. You're going to find nuts in every religion.

Also, the person that made that comment has a quote by  Abp. Marcel Lefebvre in his signature. So I would guess he is SSPX.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Lefebvre
do SSPX accept the Maronite church? I mean, the Maronites has always belonged to the Catholic Church according to pre-vatican2 Popes so if SPPX is pre-vatican2 then they must accept the maronites and other churches who were united with rome before this council? am i right?
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Wyatt on March 11, 2011, 06:49:54 PM
Sadly true - been Catholic myself but also havin Orthodox family members I get to see both sides of this debate in living action and at times the outbursts from either side are not very edifying to put it mildly.
If my decision on which is the True Church was based on the outbursts from either side (at least on the internet) I would probably conclude that neither is the True Church.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Peter J on March 17, 2011, 07:23:07 AM
do SSPX accept the Maronite church?

Why do you ask?
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Peter J on March 17, 2011, 09:58:17 AM
I was reading a Catholic forum, and this made by blood boil.  then I thought, what would be the correct responce to a comment such as this from any non-Orthodox Christian?

here is the comment:

"The "orthodox" confederation of churches is nothing but a schismatic church, a promoter of heresy and adultery, an enemy of Christ whose sole common belief is the hatred towards the Holy Roman Catholic Church and the Vicar of Christ.

There's no reason why you should attend this schismatic church unless you've gone mad and wish to lose your faith."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3426643.0.html

how should one respond to something like this in a Christian way?

Hi trevor. I'm not Orthodox, but I'll give you my opinion anyhow. I think those statements are so blatantly anti-Orthodox that hardly anyone who reads them will take them to heart. (I would bet that even some SSPXers said to themselves "Boy, this guy's a nut.") If I were you I would worry more about stuff like this (from further down the same thread):

Quote
My sister married a Serbian Orthodox. I have been to Mass there and it is beautiful. They are different than other Orthodox. They put up with me because we are friends, but they do not care for any Catholics, either Trads or NO. They are  Orthodox light. They are a completely Nationalistic church. They carry grudges for ever. They hate Croations because they are Catholics. They are completely confused about sins. My 0.02, only.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Peter J on March 17, 2011, 10:19:15 AM
P.S. In my last post I recommended worrying more about reply #15 on the fisheaters thread than reply #2. Than, after hitting "Post", I decided to read a bit more of the fisheaters thread, and discovered that reply #28 is trevor responding to #15. Go figure.  :-[    :)
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: orthonorm on March 17, 2011, 10:30:04 AM
P.S. In my last post I recommended worrying more about reply #15 on the fisheaters thread than reply #2. Than, after hitting "Post", I decided to read a bit more of the fisheaters thread, and discovered that reply #28 is trevor responding to #15. Go figure.  :-[    :)

This post exceeds my maths.
Title: Re: how to deal with people who mock the Orthodox faith?
Post by: Peter J on March 17, 2011, 12:56:06 PM
P.S. In my last post I recommended worrying more about reply #15 on the fisheaters thread than reply #2. Than, after hitting "Post", I decided to read a bit more of the fisheaters thread, and discovered that reply #28 is trevor responding to #15. Go figure.  :-[    :)

This post exceeds my maths.

Sorry, I should have simplified that.

b(2) < b(15)
R(15) = 28


where b: T -> R is the badness function and R: T -> T is the response function.