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Moderated Forums => Free-For-All => Religious Topics => Topic started by: stick man on December 20, 2010, 02:53:46 PM

Title: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: stick man on December 20, 2010, 02:53:46 PM
Dear brothers and sisters, all this talk about Jesus Christ being the true god is disturbing. Men are slaves of GOD. Therefore, a man could never become God. It would be unimaginably below the Great One's dignity to give such a great honor to his creation. To teach otherwise is blasphemy.

In order to demonstrate the gravity of the mistake of worshipping Jesus, son of Mary, as a god, here is a wise and telling quote from the Jewish Talmud:

"He then went and raised Jesus by incantations. He asked him: Who is in repute in the other world? He replied: Israel. What then, he said, about joining them? He replied: Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever. He then asked: What is your punishment? He replied: With boiling hot semen (see below). He then went and raised by incantations Jesus. He asked him: Who is in repute in the other world? He replied: Israel. What about joining them? He replied: Seek their welfare, seek not their harm. Whoever touches them touches the apple of his eye. He said: What is your punishment? He replied: With boiling hot excrement, since a Master has said: Whoever mocks at the words of the Sages is punished with boiling hot excrement."

So you see, there is just punishment in the other world for those who bow down to a man as if he were a divinity. GOD will not be scorned. He metes out just punishment to those who will not give him his due. Worshipping the wrong god is no laughing matter. It is the most capital peril.
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: mike on December 20, 2010, 03:03:24 PM
Dear stick man, as a moderator I would like you to welcome you to this forum. I want only explain you that this section's purpose is debating topics related to Orthodox Christian faith, not to other confessions and religions like Islam. I will move the posts you have posted to Religious Topics (where such discussions are allowed) and ask you not to advocate non-Orthodox teachings here.
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: ialmisry on December 20, 2010, 03:04:01 PM
Stick, or sick?
Dear brothers and sisters, all this talk about Jesus Christ being the true god is disturbing. Men are slaves of GOD. Therefore, a man could never become God. It would be unimaginably below the Great One's dignity to give such a great honor to his creation. To teach otherwise is blasphemy.

In order to demonstrate the gravity of the mistake of worshipping Jesus, son of Mary, as a god, here is a wise and telling quote from the Jewish Talmud:

"He then went and raised Jesus by incantations. He asked him: Who is in repute in the other world? He replied: Israel. What then, he said, about joining them? He replied: Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever. He then asked: What is your punishment? He replied: With boiling hot semen (see below). He then went and raised by incantations Jesus. He asked him: Who is in repute in the other world? He replied: Israel. What about joining them? He replied: Seek their welfare, seek not their harm. Whoever touches them touches the apple of his eye. He said: What is your punishment? He replied: With boiling hot excrement, since a Master has said: Whoever mocks at the words of the Sages is punished with boiling hot excrement."

So you see, there is just punishment in the other world for those who bow down to a man as if he were a divinity. GOD will not be scorned. He metes out just punishment to those who will not give him his due. Worshipping the wrong god is no laughing matter. It is the most capital peril.
Since you claim to be Muslim, why do you believe what the Jews say?  Further, your Quran claims that Christ didn't claim to be God.  So you hold the Talmud as superior to the Quran?

Christ didn't mae Himself God: He was, and is, the "I AM."
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: Aindriú on December 20, 2010, 03:04:07 PM
Dear brothers and sisters, all this talk about Jesus Christ being the true god is disturbing. Men are slaves of GOD.

Slaves? As can be seen from the Judeochristian Book of Genesis, we do not believe we are slaves, but fallen "children" of God outside of His grace.

Therefore, a man could never become God. It would be unimaginably below the Great One's dignity to give such a great honor to his creation. To teach otherwise is blasphemy.

Man didn't become God. God became a man. Huge difference.

Why would God become a man? Man can distort the teachings of God. Therefore, God became man to personally lead them back to Him.

In order to demonstrate the gravity of the mistake of worshipping Jesus, son of Mary, as a god, here is a wise and telling quote from the Jewish Talmud:

"He then went and raised Jesus by incantations. He asked him: Who is in repute in the other world? He replied: Israel. What then, he said, about joining them? He replied: Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever. He then asked: What is your punishment? He replied: With boiling hot semen (see below). He then went and raised by incantations Jesus. He asked him: Who is in repute in the other world? He replied: Israel. What about joining them? He replied: Seek their welfare, seek not their harm. Whoever touches them touches the apple of his eye. He said: What is your punishment? He replied: With boiling hot excrement, since a Master has said: Whoever mocks at the words of the Sages is punished with boiling hot excrement."

I don't follow your point. Is your point that another religion, that Christianity is supposed to fulfill, speaks against Jesus as the Messiah?

So you see, there is just punishment in the other world for those who bow down to a man as if he were a divinity. GOD will not be scorned. He metes out just punishment to those who will not give him his due.

But then, we don't bow down to man as if he were divinity. We bow down to a man who is God, himself.

Worshipping the wrong god is no laughing matter. It is the most capital peril.

Of course.
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: orthonorm on December 20, 2010, 03:25:43 PM
Since you claim to be Muslim, why do you believe what the Jews say?  Further, your Quran claims that Christ didn't claim to be God.  So you hold the Talmud as superior to the Quran?

Christ didn't mae Himself God: He was, and is, the "I AM."

Umm did you check his "jurisdiction"?
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: ialmisry on December 20, 2010, 03:33:56 PM
Since you claim to be Muslim, why do you believe what the Jews say?  Further, your Quran claims that Christ didn't claim to be God.  So you hold the Talmud as superior to the Quran?

Christ didn't mae Himself God: He was, and is, the "I AM."

Umm did you check his "jurisdiction"?
Yes, I brought that up on another of his threads, but decided to address his "argument' here, as many real muslims, who do not have their heads stuck...you know...., spout such things.
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: Tzimis on December 20, 2010, 03:55:12 PM
Did I read his signature correctly? Anybody willing to deny a female an orgasm is certainly not going to penetrate into western culture with any type of success. If you ask me.
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: orthonorm on December 20, 2010, 03:56:54 PM
Did I read his signature correctly? Anybody willing to deny a female an orgasm is certainly not going to penetrate into western culture with any type of success. If you ask me.

Is that a single or double shot of entendre?
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: Victoria on December 20, 2010, 10:27:00 PM
I'm finding it strange that OP is quoting Talmud when Quran teaches murder of Jews and talks about how vile they are
"You belivers do not take Christians and Jews as friends and anyone who befriends them"
"The Hour(END) will not be established until you fight with the Jews and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding, will say "Oh, Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him"
"Fight these who belive not in Allah, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are People of the Book(Christians/Jews) until they pay Jizya(tax) with willing submittion and feel themselves subdued"
He had no issues with Jews until they refused to acknowledged him as "God's messanger". Jews didn't accept Jesus either but you don't see Christians going out of their way to kill as many Jews as possible, do you?
His posts led me to believe that he is practicing taqiyya(lying/deception about Islam) which is quite common.  I'm sure if asked about Islam's hatred of Jews, he will denie that the said passages exist

 

Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: CRCulver on December 20, 2010, 11:05:02 PM
But you don't see Christians going out of their way to kill as many Jews as possible, do you?

Depends where and when.

Quote
His posts led me to believe that he is practicing taqiyya(lying/deception about Islam) which is quite common.

1) His posts ought to lead you to believe that he is plainly trolling and isn't a real Muslim. 2) Taqiyya is a feature of only some sects of Islam and is not universal.

Quote
I'm sure if asked about Islam's hatred of Jews, he will denie that the said passages exist

No, Muslims will readily admit to the existence of such verses (the only ones  they don't admit to are the Satanic Verses and some of the more kooky hadith). However, they will often try to interpret them away.

Can we please confront Islam as it is instead of the oversimplifications you see in the blogosphere? The number one rule of warfare is "know your enemy".
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: sainthieu on December 20, 2010, 11:23:57 PM
"Anybody willing to deny a female an orgasm is certainly not going to penetrate into western culture with any type of success."

I'll be here all week. And don't forget to tip your waitress.
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: Shiny on December 20, 2010, 11:49:45 PM
Did I read his signature correctly? Anybody willing to deny a female an orgasm is certainly not going to penetrate into western culture with any type of success. If you ask me.

LOL :laugh:
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: Victoria on December 21, 2010, 03:40:09 PM
Are you talking about Crusades? Because in modern times there is not one event when Christians banded together and decided to kill some Jews. Are Christians and Jews blowing themselves up in supermarkets in Israel?
Whether he is a “troll” or not, I don’t know however the way he talks of Islam is just like most Muslim speak, you can’t fake that.
 Taqiyya is NOT a “feature of only some sects of Islam”. Falsehoods are told all the time to promote the cause of Islam and are sanctioned in Quran, including lying under oath in testimony, deception by making distorted statements to the media(such as Islam is a “religion of peace” and terrorists are “extremists and do not represent Islam”).Deception and Islam go hand in hand-all you have to do is watch Arabic tv and see what they preach.
I don’t know what you know about Islam and how many Muslims you have actually encountered but I read Quran and hadiths and met and spoken with plenty of Muslims
I will also say this-all the Muslims I spoke with, will deny the existence of verses reg killing of infidels, wife beating, etc. Here is a how a conversation always goes(in my personal experience)

1.   When asked why certain passages advocate X(violence, beating of women, murder of Christians/Jews), they will deny that said passages exist
2.   When shown passages in Quran that show that these do exist, typical tactic is to say”well, its only done in such and such circumstances and only certain way, you are misinterpreting it”
3.   When that doesn’t work, Islamist will try to use misdirection by throwing the blame in your court(Look what Crusaders,  Christians, Jews, America , did/doing)
4.   If they fail to derail you still, next will be “only people in certain Arabic countries/tribes do all these things and they are ignorant and that’s not true Islam”
5.   If all else fails, he will scream and call you names in order to silence you. Since in Arabic mind, if you don’t scream abuse louder than him and just walk away in disgust that means he won

Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: CRCulver on December 21, 2010, 09:06:30 PM
Are you talking about Crusades? Because in modern times there is not one event when Christians banded together and decided to kill some Jews.

"Modern times" is an ambiguous range, but the 20th century has plenty of stories of Christians, and sometimes Orthodox Christians too, banding together to kill some Jews.

Quote
Whether he is a “troll” or not, I don’t know however the way he talks of Islam is just like most Muslim speak, you can’t fake that.

A troll could imitate being a Muslim just by copying and pasting from da'awa sites, which I suspect is what happened here.

Quote
Taqiyya is NOT a “feature of only some sects of Islam”.

"Taqiyya" is not just ordinary deception. The term refers to a special kind of deception enshrined in the jurisprudence tradition of a couple of Muslim sects.

Quote
I don’t know what you know about Islam and how many Muslims you have actually encountered

I regularly travel in the Muslim world. Tens of thousands of kilometres a year hitchhiking, staying with local ordinary people and getting invited to endless religious debates. I've tried to supplement my experience with them by reading rigorous historical studies of Islam. Sorry, I think I know more than you who seem to rely on the oversimplifications of the blogosphere, which stir up passions against Islam but don't keep the facts straight so that we can adequately defeat it.

Quote
When asked why certain passages advocate X(violence, beating of women, murder of Christians/Jews), they will deny that said passages exist

This is more likely from ignorance than deceit. Most Muslims are just as ignorant of the content of the Quran, outside of a few stories that have become folk tales, as Christians are of the Bible. Muslims who have read the Quran will often readily admit to even the most scandalous verses, because they believe it divinely inspired and have more than a little pride in swallowing the book whole.
 
Quote
When shown passages in Quran that show that these do exist, typical tactic is to say”well, its only done in such and such circumstances and only certain way, you are misinterpreting it”

Yes, I already told you this above.
 
Quote
If they fail to derail you still, next will be “only people in certain Arabic countries/tribes do all these things and they are ignorant and that’s not true Islam”

This is not always deceit. The Jadis of Central Asia and the Ismailis of the High Pamirs hold that almost everything that one might think of as Muslim is Arab superstition that they are not obliged to believe in to be Muslims. As a result, of course, they are often not recognized as Muslims by the core of the Islamic world.
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: Victoria on December 21, 2010, 09:43:57 PM
Are you talking about Crusades? Because in modern times there is not one event when Christians banded together and decided to kill some Jews.

"Modern times" is an ambiguous range, but the 20th century has plenty of stories of Christians, and sometimes Orthodox Christians too, banding together to kill some Jews.

Quote
Whether he is a “troll” or not, I don’t know however the way he talks of Islam is just like most Muslim speak, you can’t fake that.

A troll could imitate being a Muslim just by copying and pasting from da'awa sites, which I suspect is what happened here.

Quote
Taqiyya is NOT a “feature of only some sects of Islam”.

"Taqiyya" is not just ordinary deception. The term refers to a special kind of deception enshrined in the jurisprudence tradition of a couple of Muslim sects.

Quote
I don’t know what you know about Islam and how many Muslims you have actually encountered

I regularly travel in the Muslim world. Tens of thousands of kilometres a year hitchhiking, staying with local ordinary people and getting invited to endless religious debates. I've tried to supplement my experience with them by reading rigorous historical studies of Islam. Sorry, I think I know more than you who seem to rely on the oversimplifications of the blogosphere, which stir up passions against Islam but don't keep the facts straight so that we can adequately defeat it.

Quote
When asked why certain passages advocate X(violence, beating of women, murder of Christians/Jews), they will deny that said passages exist

This is more likely from ignorance than deceit. Most Muslims are just as ignorant of the content of the Quran, outside of a few stories that have become folk tales, as Christians are of the Bible. Muslims who have read the Quran will often readily admit to even the most scandalous verses, because they believe it divinely inspired and have more than a little pride in swallowing the book whole.
 
Quote
When shown passages in Quran that show that these do exist, typical tactic is to say”well, its only done in such and such circumstances and only certain way, you are misinterpreting it”

Yes, I already told you this above.
 
Quote
If they fail to derail you still, next will be “only people in certain Arabic countries/tribes do all these things and they are ignorant and that’s not true Islam”

This is not always deceit. The Jadis of Central Asia and the Ismailis of the High Pamirs hold that almost everything that one might think of as Muslim is Arab superstition that they are not obliged to believe in to be Muslims. As a result, of course, they are often not recognized as Muslims by the core of the Islamic world.

You really want to get in the last word so I will end debate on this note-I take offense to your statements that I rely on “blogosphere” when I personally traveled to many different countries and met number of Muslims, as well reading the Quran. It would have been nice if Muslims were just ignorant about true meanings of Quran, which is what you want to believe. My experience with Islam/Muslim was quite a bit different from you so I will have to disagree with pretty much everything you said.

Btw, am I talking about some obscure Islamic sects that you seem to bring up at every opportunity?









Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: Tzimis on December 21, 2010, 10:06:45 PM
"Anybody willing to deny a female an orgasm is certainly not going to penetrate into western culture with any type of success."

I'll be here all week. And don't forget to tip your waitress.


I'm not french and am not even remotely sure what you are alluding to. But I do enjoy an occasional glass of Folie a Deux Menage a Trois Red with my pork. ;) Wife smacks me on head as I type this.
 
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: Bowman on December 31, 2010, 03:11:26 AM
Dear brothers and sisters, all this talk about Jesus Christ being the true god is disturbing. Men are slaves of GOD. Therefore, a man could never become God. It would be unimaginably below the Great One's dignity to give such a great honor to his creation. To teach otherwise is blasphemy.

In order to demonstrate the gravity of the mistake of worshipping Jesus, son of Mary, as a god, here is a wise and telling quote from the Jewish Talmud:

"He then went and raised Jesus by incantations. He asked him: Who is in repute in the other world? He replied: Israel. What then, he said, about joining them? He replied: Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever. He then asked: What is your punishment? He replied: With boiling hot semen (see below). He then went and raised by incantations Jesus. He asked him: Who is in repute in the other world? He replied: Israel. What about joining them? He replied: Seek their welfare, seek not their harm. Whoever touches them touches the apple of his eye. He said: What is your punishment? He replied: With boiling hot excrement, since a Master has said: Whoever mocks at the words of the Sages is punished with boiling hot excrement."

So you see, there is just punishment in the other world for those who bow down to a man as if he were a divinity. GOD will not be scorned. He metes out just punishment to those who will not give him his due. Worshipping the wrong god is no laughing matter. It is the most capital peril.

Even the authors of the Koran knew that Jesus is God.
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: CRCulver on December 31, 2010, 06:26:59 AM
Even the authors of the Koran knew that Jesus is God.

Bowman, are you going to post about anything else, say, Orthodox Christianity, or did you register for this forum solely to promote your idée fixe?
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: Orthodox11 on December 31, 2010, 10:52:33 AM
Can we please confront Islam as it is instead of the oversimplifications you see in the blogosphere? The number one rule of warfare is "know your enemy".

Agree. Allah yebarik feek!
Title: Re: On the perils of worshipping a false god
Post by: Bowman on December 31, 2010, 11:54:35 AM
Even the authors of the Koran knew that Jesus is God.

Bowman, are you going to post about anything else, say, Orthodox Christianity, or did you register for this forum solely to promote your idée fixe?

Does this bother you...?