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General Forums => Christian News => Topic started by: TheodoraElizabeth3 on November 10, 2010, 08:27:57 PM

Title: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: TheodoraElizabeth3 on November 10, 2010, 08:27:57 PM
Met. Philip has dismissed another priest, this time for posting comments on OCANews.org

http://www.ocanews.org/news/Yelosovich11.9.10.html (http://www.ocanews.org/news/Yelosovich11.9.10.html)

Quote:
Following the posting of two comments on OCANews.org last week Fr. Elias Yelovich, of the Antiochian St. James Mission in Westminster, MD, was dismissed from his parish and suspended by Metropolitan Philip.   

For shame, Met. Philip! For shame.

This dismissed priest was under Bp. Thomas.

I am active online on non-Orthodox forums, and I often get asked to recommend a parish. I will no longer recommend any Antiochian parish to anyone. Period. I'll send them to the Greeks, if necessary (I'm OCA, although used to be AOCA a few years back, and tend to avoid GOA parishes due to the heavy ethnicity and language issues), but absolutely, positively, under ANY circumstances I now REFUSE to send anyone to the Antiochians.

As a friend says, Met. Philip puts the "despota" in "Eis Polla."
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: bogdan on November 10, 2010, 09:05:06 PM
Metropolitan Philip is completely out of control. God preserve us.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: biro on November 10, 2010, 09:06:46 PM
Lord, have mercy.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: ialmisry on November 10, 2010, 09:09:41 PM
Met. Philip has dismissed another priest, this time for posting comments on OCANews.org

http://www.ocanews.org/news/Yelosovich11.9.10.html (http://www.ocanews.org/news/Yelosovich11.9.10.html)

Quote:
Following the posting of two comments on OCANews.org last week Fr. Elias Yelovich, of the Antiochian St. James Mission in Westminster, MD, was dismissed from his parish and suspended by Metropolitan Philip.   

For shame, Met. Philip! For shame.

This dismissed priest was under Bp. Thomas.

I am active online on non-Orthodox forums, and I often get asked to recommend a parish. I will no longer recommend any Antiochian parish to anyone. Period. I'll send them to the Greeks, if necessary (I'm OCA, although used to be AOCA a few years back, and tend to avoid GOA parishes due to the heavy ethnicity and language issues), but absolutely, positively, under ANY circumstances I now REFUSE to send anyone to the Antiochians.

As a friend says, Met. Philip puts the "despota" in "Eis Polla."
One wonders if anyone will be left but Met. Philip when he's through.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: LizaSymonenko on November 10, 2010, 09:25:17 PM

Lord, have mercy!

Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: PrincessMommy on November 10, 2010, 09:46:31 PM
Yikes!  I recently recommended this parish to an inquiring friend.  What's also sad is that this is a fairly new parish. 
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 10, 2010, 09:48:22 PM
I hope the Patriarch of Antioch steps in and does something about this whole situation.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Asteriktos on November 10, 2010, 09:53:09 PM
I know people are unhappy, but who will put their neck on the line and do something from "below"? If Pat. Ignatius IV doesn't do something, who will?
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: TheodoraElizabeth3 on November 10, 2010, 09:58:37 PM
Yikes!  I recently recommended this parish to an inquiring friend.  What's also sad is that this is a fairly new parish. 

I went to the mission's website and saw that it's only been around for a few years.

Someone definitely needs to step in. I know the AOCA has "self-rule" but surely that doesn't mean Met. Philip has permission to run amok.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 10, 2010, 10:00:55 PM
I know people are unhappy, but who will put their neck on the line and do something from "below"? If Pat. Ignatius IV doesn't do something, who will?

<a wayward catechumen raises his hand to volunteer for the cause>
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Asteriktos on November 10, 2010, 10:06:30 PM
I know people are unhappy, but who will put their neck on the line and do something from "below"? If Pat. Ignatius IV doesn't do something, who will?

<a wayward catechumen raises his hand to volunteer for the cause>

Well, I would as well, because what's the worst he can do to me? What's he going to do, excommunicate Mr. Nobody Layman? But then, it's exactly because I'm nobody that my voice wouldn't mean anything. Also, to some extent, I think we need to weather the storm. What he has been doing is wrong, but what should be the consequences? What are we talking about here? All I want to see is to have things rectified in the individual cases (though I guess the Bp. Mark thing is beyond repair by now?) and make sure Met. Philip doesn't do similar things in the future.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: KBN1 on November 10, 2010, 10:10:15 PM
The only thing that is remotely humorous about this thread is the "Ivan The Terrible" tag.  Lord have mercy.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: TheodoraElizabeth3 on November 10, 2010, 10:11:28 PM
The only thing that is remotely humorous about this thread is the "Ivan The Terrible" tag.  Lord have mercy.

I didn't do that! ::)
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 10, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
The only thing that is remotely humorous about this thread is the "Ivan The Terrible" tag.  Lord have mercy.

I didn't do that! ::)

Guilty as charged... ;D
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Mattheos on November 11, 2010, 01:08:13 AM
THIS IS OUTRAGE!   >:(
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on November 11, 2010, 01:17:54 AM
Lord, have mercy.  That's really too bad.  Of coarse, unless all y'all know the entire back-story, it's really hard, it seems, to speak with any authority on these issues.  If I may inject a little country parlance, "No matter how flat you cook a pancake, they's still two sides."
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 11, 2010, 02:39:11 AM
Did someone mention pancakes??  ;D

(http://boralv.se/blog/images/oolong.jpg)

Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: arimethea on November 11, 2010, 04:42:15 AM
I have been very quiet during all of this... it is time to begin a fast and prepare to be a witness and speak forth what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears. I am ready to appeal, not only the Holy Synod of Antioch but, to take that appeal to Constantinople.

There is a cancer in the Archdiocese of North America of the Patriarch of Antioch but, Metropolitan Philip is not the root (at this point in his life the puppeteer has become the puppet), it goes much deeper and it is time for this to end.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: mattymoo on November 11, 2010, 07:06:10 AM
I know people are unhappy, but who will put their neck on the line and do something from "below"?

I think Fr. Elias just did.

He may have been "punished" for it, but he spoke out according to his conscience and has set an example. Others may be waiting until a more effective time to speak out or may be working through other channels unbeknownst to us, but I think that in the end many will have taken the risks of "putting their necks on the line" and speaking or acting in regards to all that has been going on regarding the AOCA.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: arnI on November 11, 2010, 08:39:57 AM

Lord have mercy!
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: tuesdayschild on November 11, 2010, 12:12:04 PM
I have been very quiet during all of this... it is time to begin a fast and prepare to be a witness and speak forth what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears. I am ready to appeal, not only the Holy Synod of Antioch but, to take that appeal to Constantinople.

There is a cancer in the Archdiocese of North America of the Patriarch of Antioch but, Metropolitan Philip is not the root (at this point in his life the puppeteer has become the puppet), it goes much deeper and it is time for this to end.

Lord, have mercy on your servant, Joseph.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Deacon Lance on November 11, 2010, 12:19:31 PM
Lord, have mercy.  That's really too bad.  Of coarse, unless all y'all know the entire back-story, it's really hard, it seems, to speak with any authority on these issues.  If I may inject a little country parlance, "No matter how flat you cook a pancake, they's still two sides."

But one side can be golden brown and the other burnt black.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: tomowapig on November 11, 2010, 12:20:30 PM
Lord, have mercy.  That's really too bad.  Of coarse, unless all y'all know the entire back-story, it's really hard, it seems, to speak with any authority on these issues.  If I may inject a little country parlance, "No matter how flat you cook a pancake, they's still two sides."

Not only are there 2 sides, there's also the edges!  ;D
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Deacon Lance on November 11, 2010, 12:20:54 PM
I have been very quiet during all of this... it is time to begin a fast and prepare to be a witness and speak forth what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears. I am ready to appeal, not only the Holy Synod of Antioch but, to take that appeal to Constantinople.

There is a cancer in the Archdiocese of North America of the Patriarch of Antioch but, Metropolitan Philip is not the root (at this point in his life the puppeteer has become the puppet), it goes much deeper and it is time for this to end.

My prayers for your witness.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: tomowapig on November 11, 2010, 12:24:57 PM
Lord, have mercy.  That's really too bad.  Of coarse, unless all y'all know the entire back-story, it's really hard, it seems, to speak with any authority on these issues.  If I may inject a little country parlance, "No matter how flat you cook a pancake, they's still two sides."

But one side can be golden brown and the other burnt black.

Ohh, the possibilities are almost endless.  Almost.  More pancakes, anyone? ;D
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: tomowapig on November 11, 2010, 12:28:16 PM
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk. 
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: LizaSymonenko on November 11, 2010, 12:37:33 PM
I have been very quiet during all of this... it is time to begin a fast and prepare to be a witness and speak forth what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears. I am ready to appeal, not only the Holy Synod of Antioch but, to take that appeal to Constantinople.

There is a cancer in the Archdiocese of North America of the Patriarch of Antioch but, Metropolitan Philip is not the root (at this point in his life the puppeteer has become the puppet), it goes much deeper and it is time for this to end.

My prayers for your witness.

Having heard some of these priests speak in person - I wish you the best!  May the Lord guide your steps and words!

Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Anastasios on November 11, 2010, 12:46:13 PM
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk.  

Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...

I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: AMM on November 11, 2010, 12:48:53 PM
Yikes and double yikes.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: podkarpatska on November 11, 2010, 12:49:22 PM
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk.  

Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...

I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: arnI on November 11, 2010, 01:16:54 PM
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk.  

Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...

I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.

Agreed.

My parish is GOA, but since this AOA mission is a short drive for me, I have considered attending Vespers.  I am reluctant to now having read the exorcising and prophesying comments mentioned above ...
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Lichnidos on November 11, 2010, 01:51:10 PM
Quote
Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...
I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.
This too caught my eye, but I didn't take it literally. I took it to mean that Fr. Elias believes the man's piety far outweighed his own. But that's just me. Perhaps It should be looked into. However, I do think that we commit just as much as of an injustice by automatically, discounting the possibility.

 On the other hand ...

Quote
In the letter Fr. Elias was informed that due to his publicly "speaking out" against "recent actions" taken by the Metropolitan, he had been removed as the Priest at St. James. He was told to remove all his personal belongings from the rented church space immediately, and turn over his keys and all bank account information to a Parish Council member to be selected by Fr. Peter. The current Parish Council Chair was also removed.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 11, 2010, 01:55:38 PM
I wonder why the parish council chair was removed also?
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: AMM on November 11, 2010, 01:59:02 PM
One thing I have learned, and this is through direct experience, is there's always more to the story than there appears to be on the surface; and that bishops, priests and so on are in many ways unable to fully divulge details that would shed light on the situation.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: podkarpatska on November 11, 2010, 02:14:51 PM
One thing I have learned, and this is through direct experience, is there's always more to the story than there appears to be on the surface; and that bishops, priests and so on are in many ways unable to fully divulge details that would shed light on the situation.

Indeed, I don't usually like to quote scripture out of context but I think that this passage is apropos. Without direct knowledge of what is going on and why, one needs to be careful in their words. If you have such direct knowledge, an internet forum is probably not the best  place to disseminate it in most cases.

Mathew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of
judgment for every careless word they have spoken.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: recent convert on November 11, 2010, 02:27:51 PM
This one may be justified though & may just seem problematic because of timing? Any hope I have to believe for the better in this saga has always been generally wrong but at least then I generally find out the truth.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: biro on November 11, 2010, 02:31:03 PM
My heart goes out to the people in the parishes.  :'(

I wonder if anyone is going to call some sort of an emergency conference because of this?
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Shanghaiski on November 11, 2010, 05:48:21 PM
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk.  

Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...

I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.

I agree with your assessment, Father, and those comments about prophecy concerned me, I must say that other comments of Fr. Elias were very moving and, I think, spiritually accurate as to how one should act, not looking to the right or the left. I think he has done well in being obedient to the suspension, even if I think the Metropolitan suspended him for the wrong STATED reason of refusing to retract a comment that I found only to be a humble statement of honest confusion. Who isn't confused by the actions of Metropolitan Philip? While Fr. Elias could well have been suspended for bizarre spiritual happenings, it was not stated as the reason and their appears to have been no investigation. While there may be reasons not to state the actual purpose for a suspension or disciplinary action and there may be reasons not to state that there has been an investigation--reasons legitimate or not--such secretive and disingenuous action does not speak well for the Metropolitan or his administration. Disingenuity is a great problem for Orthodoxy in America. People react very badly and cynically to being led on. It's very frustrating that there is no straight answer, that the Metropolitan is not seen as taking the Gospel commandment of being the servant of all seriously, that there is no transparency or accountability regarding these actions or the collection, dispersement, and accumulation of funds. The Antiochian Archdiocese is approaching a crisis of confidence in its leadership. It does not good for the spiritual welfare of the archdiocese to have people feel alienated by their own bishops.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Nigula Qian Zishi on November 11, 2010, 07:15:57 PM
As a friend says, Met. Philip puts the "despota" in "Eis Polla."

Or, rather, he puts the "despot" in "despota".
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: TheodoraElizabeth3 on November 11, 2010, 09:12:06 PM
Aside from the fact that there very well could be more to this situation, the entire situation just leaves a bad taste in one's mouth, especially the heavy-handed way Met. Philip is acting. I wonder how many people are looking at their priests and wondering if their pastor will be next. It creates all sorts of instability, real or perceived, that didn't need to be there.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Andrew21091 on November 11, 2010, 09:29:27 PM
I need to get to the Church Abroad.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: podkarpatska on November 12, 2010, 10:01:11 AM
I need to get to the Church Abroad.

Please do not take this as not a comment on the Church Abroad my friend., but remember that wherever you may go on your journey, the grass is not always greener on the other side. This too shall pass.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Punch on November 12, 2010, 11:20:25 AM
I need to get to the Church Abroad.

I went through the same thing 15 years ago. 
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on November 12, 2010, 11:29:47 AM
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk.  

Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...

I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.

Agreed.

I must also confess that I have never seen such things in an Orthodox Church. On the one hand, we do know that these things did happen in the distant past and there have been somewhat satisfactory explanations why they had not continued on for centuries now. On the other hand, we cannot dismiss them just because of the historical record; how can we gainsay the Holy Scriptures, based on  after-the-fact reasoning, and who knows what His will and plans are? This could be like the teachings of the Lord in John 6 that were considered "hard" by many of His disciples. I suspect that these events may be considered as a rebuke to some of us, clergy and laity alike, who have not experienced them. If so, it may be time for the Saint Ephraim's prayer.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Anastasios on November 12, 2010, 11:33:35 AM

I must also confess that I have never seen such things in an Orthodox Church. On the one hand, we do know that these things did happen in the distant past and there have been somewhat satisfactory explanations why they had not continued on for centuries now. On the other hand, we cannot dismiss them just because of the historical record; how can we gainsay the Holy Scriptures, based on  after-the-fact reasoning, and who knows what His will and plans are? This could be like the teachings of the Lord in John 6 that were considered "hard" by many of His disciples. I suspect that these events may be considered as a rebuke to some of us, clergy and laity alike, who have not experienced them. If so, it may be time for the Saint Ephraim's prayer.

They have continued to happen through the centuries, up to the present day, in the Optina Elders and St. Cosmas of Aitolia, Elder Ieronymos of Aegina (+1960s), St. John Maximovitch....but always the people given these gifts in recent centuries are monastics.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Shanghaiski on November 12, 2010, 11:40:39 AM

I must also confess that I have never seen such things in an Orthodox Church. On the one hand, we do know that these things did happen in the distant past and there have been somewhat satisfactory explanations why they had not continued on for centuries now. On the other hand, we cannot dismiss them just because of the historical record; how can we gainsay the Holy Scriptures, based on  after-the-fact reasoning, and who knows what His will and plans are? This could be like the teachings of the Lord in John 6 that were considered "hard" by many of His disciples. I suspect that these events may be considered as a rebuke to some of us, clergy and laity alike, who have not experienced them. If so, it may be time for the Saint Ephraim's prayer.

They have continued to happen through the centuries, up to the present day, in the Optina Elders and St. Cosmas of Aitolia, Elder Ieronymos of Aegina (+1960s), St. John Maximovitch....but always the people given these gifts in recent centuries are monastics.

Or fools for Christ like Crazy John of Greece.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Anastasios on November 12, 2010, 11:45:19 AM


Or fools for Christ like Crazy John of Greece.

Right, I forgot about them. The point is of course that these gifts are given to people who make a radical commitment to Christ, not people who watch TV, eat at Applebee's, and read mass market paperback novels.  People who do the latter can be fine Orthodox Christians, but they are not given prophetic gifts.

People living in the world sometimes experience one-time visions/gifts/experiences, but these are extraordinary and have to be closely scrutinized by one's spiritual father.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: tomowapig on November 12, 2010, 12:15:41 PM

I must also confess that I have never seen such things in an Orthodox Church. On the one hand, we do know that these things did happen in the distant past and there have been somewhat satisfactory explanations why they had not continued on for centuries now. On the other hand, we cannot dismiss them just because of the historical record; how can we gainsay the Holy Scriptures, based on  after-the-fact reasoning, and who knows what His will and plans are? This could be like the teachings of the Lord in John 6 that were considered "hard" by many of His disciples. I suspect that these events may be considered as a rebuke to some of us, clergy and laity alike, who have not experienced them. If so, it may be time for the Saint Ephraim's prayer.


They have continued to happen through the centuries, up to the present day, in the Optina Elders and St. Cosmas of Aitolia, Elder Ieronymos of Aegina (+1960s), St. John Maximovitch....but always the people given these gifts in recent centuries are monastics.

I don't mean to derail the discussion about +Phillip and Fr. Elias, et al, but I'm wondering how might one recognize someone with prophetic gifts?  What might they do, or behave like?  What sort of person might they be?  How would one *know* they are a "prophet" and that what they do or say is from God and not either themselves or the demons?  What sort of life might they lead or have lead?
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: jah777 on November 12, 2010, 12:28:32 PM
Just yesterday I came across a very good quote from Met Anthony (Khrapovitsky) of ROCOR in his lectures on the Mystery of Repentance.  These words of his on the subject of prelest, or spiritual delusion, are words that are very helpful to keep in mind in the context of the present discussion.  This is a condition we should familiarize ourselves with, not so that we can accuse others of it, but in order to ensure that we ourselves are not deceived either by our own experiences or phenomena manifested by others.

Quote
"Weak faith and carelessness are expressions of people’s irreligion, but even a pious person is not protected from spiritual sickness if he does not have a wise guide, either a living person or a spiritual writer. This sickness is called prelest, or spiritual delusion, imagining oneself to be near to God and to the realm of the divine and supernatural. Even zealous ascetics in monasteries are sometimes subject to this delusion, but of course, lay people who are zealous in outward ascetic struggles undergo it much more frequently. Surpassing their acquaintainces in feats of prayer and fasting, they imagine that they are seers of divine visions, or at least of dreams inspired by grace. In all events in their lives they see special, intentional directions from God or their Guardian Angel, and then they start imagining that they are God’s elect, and not infrequently try to foretell the future. The Holy Fathers armed themselves against nothing so fiercely as against this sickness — spiritual delusion.

"Prelest endangers a man’s soul if it lurks in him alone; but it is dangerous and imperilling also for the whole of local church life, if a whole society is seized in its grasp, if it makes its appearance anywhere as a spiritual epidemic and the life of a whole parish or diocese is oriented entirely towards it."

I also recently was reading the life of St. Ambrose of Optina and came across the following story which should also cause us to think very soberly about this subject:

Quote
”At the end of the 1820’s or beginning of the 30’s, [St.] Leonid [of Optina] visited the Sophroniev Hermitage.  At that time Hieroschemamonk Theodosius was living there in seclusion (in the orchard).  Many people considered him to be a spiritual man and clairvoyant because he had foretold the War of 1812 and several other occurrences.  [St.] Leonid found his state dubious.  After speaking with the recluse, the Elder asked him how he was able to foretell the future.  The recluse replied that the Holy Spirit made the future known to him; and to the Elder’s question about the manner in which He made this known, he explained that the Holy Spirit appeared to him in the form of some type of dove and spoke to him in a human voice.  [St.] Leonid, seeing clearly in this the delusion of the enemy, began to warn the recluse that one should not believe this sort of thing.  But the recluse was offended and indignantly retorted to the Elder, ‘I thought that you, like the others, wanted to derive profit from me, but you came to teach me!’  [St.] Leonid withdrew and said to the abbot when he was leaving the Monastery: ‘Watch out for your holy recluse; do not let anything happen to him.’  [St.] Leonid had hardly journeyed as far as Orel when he learned that Fr. Theodosius had hanged himself.”

Fr. Theodosius’ arrogant and prideful response to St. Leonid demonstrated his spiritual state, as pride is the chief ingredient of spiritual delusion.  This is why Met Anthony (Khrapovitsky) stated in the same article:

Quote
”In order to open the eyes of a person who has fallen or is falling into delusion, you must show him examples of this fatal sickness taken from the above-mentioned books, and also of its invariable sign — disturbance and even irritability in the face of accusations.”

Again, I am not attempting to “diagnose” this layperson who is part of the parish in question, but only to point out the importance of sobriety is such cases, and if a hermit who is living a seemingly holy life can fall into such a demonic state, how much more susceptible to deception are those living in the world who are not under strict obedience to a holy elder!  People flocked to Fr. Theodosius from all around because his predictions came true.  The fact that his “prophecies” came true deceived many into thinking that he had a “true” gift of prophecy from the Holy Spirit, when in fact it was all a deception from the demons.  

As a general rule, it seems that unless a person is virtuous and has conquered the passions, unless a person is exceedingly meek and humble in the face of criticism and rebuke, and unless that person is under strict obedience and careful observation by a patristically-minded and discerning spiritual father, we should in all probability flee from them lest we ourselves fall into deception.  
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: jah777 on November 12, 2010, 01:04:09 PM
I need to get to the Church Abroad.

Please do not take this as not a comment on the Church Abroad my friend., but remember that wherever you may go on your journey, the grass is not always greener on the other side.


But in this case, the grass is greener on the other side!   ;)  :D


Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: tomowapig on November 12, 2010, 04:05:31 PM

I must also confess that I have never seen such things in an Orthodox Church. On the one hand, we do know that these things did happen in the distant past and there have been somewhat satisfactory explanations why they had not continued on for centuries now. On the other hand, we cannot dismiss them just because of the historical record; how can we gainsay the Holy Scriptures, based on  after-the-fact reasoning, and who knows what His will and plans are? This could be like the teachings of the Lord in John 6 that were considered "hard" by many of His disciples. I suspect that these events may be considered as a rebuke to some of us, clergy and laity alike, who have not experienced them. If so, it may be time for the Saint Ephraim's prayer.


They have continued to happen through the centuries, up to the present day, in the Optina Elders and St. Cosmas of Aitolia, Elder Ieronymos of Aegina (+1960s), St. John Maximovitch....but always the people given these gifts in recent centuries are monastics.

I don't mean to derail the discussion about +Phillip and Fr. Elias, et al, but I'm wondering how might one recognize someone with prophetic gifts?  What might they do, or behave like?  What sort of person might they be?  How would one *know* they are a "prophet" and that what they do or say is from God and not either themselves or the demons?  What sort of life might they lead or have lead?


I think I'll start a new thread about this in Faith Issues--"Will the real prophet please stand up?"
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 13, 2010, 02:30:11 AM
http://ocanews.org/news/MessageReceived11.12.10.html

11.10.10

A REFLECTION ON THE VALUES OF METROPOLITAN PHILIP

In transferring Fr. Paul Alberts and releasing
Fr. David Moretti from his parish, and the
Archdiocese, Metropolitan Philip sent a loud and
clear message-and the message has been received:
the Antiochian Archdiocese is open to unrepentant
convicted criminals who side with Metropolitan
Philip, but closed to those who may walk a tight
rope between "mainstream" Orthodoxy and
"fundamentalism," who find themselves at odds
with the ideology of Metropolitan Philip. . . . . . .
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 13, 2010, 02:46:08 AM
http://ocanews.org/news/MessageReceived11.12.10.html

11.10.10

A REFLECTION ON THE VALUES OF METROPOLITAN PHILIP

In transferring Fr. Paul Alberts and releasing
Fr. David Moretti from his parish, and the
Archdiocese, Metropolitan Philip sent a loud and
clear message-and the message has been received:
the Antiochian Archdiocese is open to unrepentant
convicted criminals who side with Metropolitan
Philip, but closed to those who may walk a tight
rope between "mainstream" Orthodoxy and
"fundamentalism," who find themselves at odds
with the ideology of Metropolitan Philip. . . . . . .


<speechless>
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: dcommini on November 13, 2010, 10:15:54 AM
http://ocanews.org/news/MessageReceived11.12.10.html

11.10.10

A REFLECTION ON THE VALUES OF METROPOLITAN PHILIP

In transferring Fr. Paul Alberts and releasing
Fr. David Moretti from his parish, and the
Archdiocese, Metropolitan Philip sent a loud and
clear message-and the message has been received:
the Antiochian Archdiocese is open to unrepentant
convicted criminals who side with Metropolitan
Philip, but closed to those who may walk a tight
rope between "mainstream" Orthodoxy and
"fundamentalism," who find themselves at odds
with the ideology of Metropolitan Philip. . . . . . .


<speechless>

Likewise. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth as I currently attend an Antiochian Orthodox Church about 30 minutes from my house. I do not have very many choices except if I travel about an hour or so to Nashville which I can ill afford to do because of gas and other economic problems I face. I will continue (for now) to attend my Antiochian Church and I will pray desperately that Metropolitan Philip will see the error of his ways...
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: genesisone on November 13, 2010, 10:29:09 AM

Likewise. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth as I currently attend an Antiochian Orthodox Church about 30 minutes from my house. I do not have very many choices except if I travel about an hour or so to Nashville which I can ill afford to do because of gas and other economic problems I face. I will continue (for now) to attend my Antiochian Church and I will pray desperately that Metropolitan Philip will see the error of his ways...
I'm in exactly the same situation, and have the same feelings. Except it's not Nashville that's an hour away  :). And I do pray daily for the Metropolitan that he will guide our Archdiocese in true godliness and wisdom.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: FatherGiryus on November 13, 2010, 11:55:25 AM
That is not a pancake.  That is a dorayaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorayaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorayaki)).

There is a big, happy difference.


Did someone mention pancakes??  ;D

(http://boralv.se/blog/images/oolong.jpg)


Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: observer on November 13, 2010, 02:35:38 PM
It's ridiculous to make comparisons between wearing a cassock and forging a check. The priest was disobedient to his bishop - period.  Whether  the priest chose vanilla instead of chocolate is irrelevant, he must obey his bishop. It might seem strange to a generation reared on democracy to have to toe the lie and accept obedience. Read the life of Fr Nicholas Planas.  "I observe the new (calendar) but my heart is with old." Also, it is not for us to pass judgment or opine in this matter - which is what I have just done. ::)
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: dcommini on November 13, 2010, 02:55:41 PM
It's ridiculous to make comparisons between wearing a cassock and forging a check. The priest was disobedient to his bishop - period.  Whether  the priest chose vanilla instead of chocolate is irrelevant, he must obey his bishop. It might seem strange to a generation reared on democracy to have to toe the lie and accept obedience. Read the life of Fr Nicholas Planas.  "I observe the new (calendar) but my heart is with old." Also, it is not for us to pass judgment or opine in this matter - which is what I have just done. ::)


[devil's advocate]
So if a priest's bishop tells him to teach matters heretical the priest must teach those things because his bishop commands him? If a priest's bishop tells him to preach instead from the Koran the priest must obey? For the priest to do otherwise would make him disobedient to his bishop - period.

Now I realize that there is a difference between those things pertaining to spiritual matters and those things pertaining to other matters, but as we see one can be obedient and still wrong. The Nazis and German soldiers of WWII obeyed the orders given to them and they were still held accountable. In the US military today one is held accountable for doing something wrong, even if the soldier was ordered to do so.

I know that there really is no comparison between the atrocious war crimes committed during the second world war and wearing a cassock, but I would not forge a signature on a check even if my bishop told me to. Wrong is wrong is wrong is wrong - period.
[/devil's advocate]

Now, I know that Met. Philip is doing what he thinks is best (or at least I hope so), but just because he is a bishop does not mean that he is not accountable to those below him when he does something wrong. In fact if he is doing something wrong we all need to hold him accountable and do what needs to be done to correct the situation. That being said, I will continue to pray for Met. Philip, and I will observe the situation as it unfolds, and if he happens to make a wrong turn and start to lead the Antiochian Church astray through his actions then I (and hopefully others) will confront him and whoever else (in a respectable manner) to set things right.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Cognomen on November 13, 2010, 04:27:52 PM
http://ocanews.org/news/MessageReceived11.12.10.html

11.10.10

A REFLECTION ON THE VALUES OF METROPOLITAN PHILIP

In transferring Fr. Paul Alberts and releasing
Fr. David Moretti from his parish, and the
Archdiocese, Metropolitan Philip sent a loud and
clear message-and the message has been received:
the Antiochian Archdiocese is open to unrepentant
convicted criminals who side with Metropolitan
Philip, but closed to those who may walk a tight
rope between "mainstream" Orthodoxy and
"fundamentalism," who find themselves at odds
with the ideology of Metropolitan Philip. . . . . . .


The person who wrote this is certainly entitled to their opinion, but it seems unwise to react too strongly
to an anonymous internet posting of this nature.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: tomowapig on November 15, 2010, 03:47:50 PM
It's ridiculous to make comparisons between wearing a cassock and forging a check. The priest was disobedient to his bishop - period.  Whether  the priest chose vanilla instead of chocolate is irrelevant, he must obey his bishop. It might seem strange to a generation reared on democracy to have to toe the lie and accept obedience. Read the life of Fr Nicholas Planas.  "I observe the new (calendar) but my heart is with old." Also, it is not for us to pass judgment or opine in this matter - which is what I have just done. ::)


[devil's advocate]
So if a priest's bishop tells him to teach matters heretical the priest must teach those things because his bishop commands him? If a priest's bishop tells him to preach instead from the Koran the priest must obey? For the priest to do otherwise would make him disobedient to his bishop - period.

Now I realize that there is a difference between those things pertaining to spiritual matters and those things pertaining to other matters, but as we see one can be obedient and still wrong. The Nazis and German soldiers of WWII obeyed the orders given to them and they were still held accountable. In the US military today one is held accountable for doing something wrong, even if the soldier was ordered to do so.

I know that there really is no comparison between the atrocious war crimes committed during the second world war and wearing a cassock, but I would not forge a signature on a check even if my bishop told me to. Wrong is wrong is wrong is wrong - period.
[/devil's advocate]

Now, I know that Met. Philip is doing what he thinks is best (or at least I hope so), but just because he is a bishop does not mean that he is not accountable to those below him when he does something wrong. In fact if he is doing something wrong we all need to hold him accountable and do what needs to be done to correct the situation. That being said, I will continue to pray for Met. Philip, and I will observe the situation as it unfolds, and if he happens to make a wrong turn and start to lead the Antiochian Church astray through his actions then I (and hopefully others) will confront him and whoever else (in a respectable manner) to set things right.

Of course, Met. Philip is, eventually accountable to those below him.  Not to mention his ultimate accountability to God. 

From what I understand and can glean from here and there, I don't believe Met. Philip asked Fr. Elias to do anything heretical, violent, or illegal.  Against Fr. Elias' conscience and internal value system, perhaps.  Maybe even definitely.  But nothing like what you (as devil's advocate) are suggesting. 

Just as an aside, doesn't the devil have *enough* advocates, already  ;D?
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: FormerReformer on November 17, 2010, 06:22:11 PM
Latest from ocanews.org: Sections from the letter of Bishop THOMAS to Fr Elias.

http://www.ocanews.org/news/YelovichDismissed11.17.09.html (http://www.ocanews.org/news/YelovichDismissed11.17.09.html)

It would appear that the Father's practice of confessing to a layman and calling him a prophet and then talking about it on the comments section of ocanews are what prompted his removal.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: podkarpatska on November 17, 2010, 09:57:06 PM
Latest from ocanews.org: Sections from the letter of Bishop THOMAS to Fr Elias.

http://www.ocanews.org/news/YelovichDismissed11.17.09.html (http://www.ocanews.org/news/YelovichDismissed11.17.09.html)

It would appear that the Father's practice of confessing to a layman and calling him a prophet and then talking about it on the comments section of ocanews are what prompted his removal.

As the late Paul Harvey would say, " And now for the rest of the story......"
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: SolEX01 on November 17, 2010, 11:52:07 PM
Fr. Elias helped me get past some personal issues, although I have to admit to having a red flag which prevented subsequent returns to Westminster. 

I'm saddened to hear more details about his justified removal (even though we may not like the Metropolitan doing the removing at this particular moment) and I hope that the St. James Mission grows stronger because of this experience.

Lord have Mercy.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: arimethea on November 17, 2010, 11:59:38 PM
Latest from ocanews.org: Sections from the letter of Bishop THOMAS to Fr Elias.

http://www.ocanews.org/news/YelovichDismissed11.17.09.html (http://www.ocanews.org/news/YelovichDismissed11.17.09.html)

It would appear that the Father's practice of confessing to a layman and calling him a prophet and then talking about it on the comments section of ocanews are what prompted his removal.

As the late Paul Harvey would say, " And now for the rest of the story......"

Timing is everything.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Deacon Lance on November 18, 2010, 12:52:40 AM
It would appear that the Father's practice of confessing to a layman and calling him a prophet and then talking about it on the comments section of ocanews are what prompted his removal.

Curious how all these anomlaies were tolerable until he dared to criticize the Metropolitan.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 18, 2010, 04:21:05 AM
It would appear that the Father's practice of confessing to a layman and calling him a prophet and then talking about it on the comments section of ocanews are what prompted his removal.

Curious how all these anomlaies were tolerable until he dared to criticize the Metropolitan.

The straw that broke the camel's back, so it appears...
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: FormerReformer on November 18, 2010, 04:40:52 AM
It would appear that the Father's practice of confessing to a layman and calling him a prophet and then talking about it on the comments section of ocanews are what prompted his removal.

Curious how all these anomlaies were tolerable until he dared to criticize the Metropolitan.

The straw that broke the camel's back, so it appears...

Probably not smart to brag about said anomalies in the same comment where you're criticizing the Metropolitan.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Orual on November 18, 2010, 01:10:35 PM
It would appear that the Father's practice of confessing to a layman and calling him a prophet and then talking about it on the comments section of ocanews are what prompted his removal.

Curious how all these anomlaies were tolerable until he dared to criticize the Metropolitan.

The straw that broke the camel's back, so it appears...

Criticizing the Metropolitan was the thousand-pound sack of rocks that broke the camel's back.  The anomalies were just bits of straw on the camel's back until that sack came along.  (Poor camel.)

In principle, there is nothing wrong with confessing to a layman.  Even nowadays people sometimes have a nun or abbess as a spiritual mother.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Lichnidos on November 18, 2010, 01:14:07 PM
Let's be fair. The said layman in this case was neither a nun or a monk. I think it's okay for Priests to confide in others - but perhaps confessions are a bit too much? Let's be clear - we're Orthodox Christians, we do not practice the use of "accountability partners." Also, declaring someone as having spiritual gifts doesn't happen without the Bishop. And if the Bishop raises question to this account, then that needs to be considered by both the Priest and the Parish.

While it may or may not excuse how things are being done at the moment in the AOC, and there is enough other baggage for Antiochian faithful to be upset, this particular case may have been justifiable.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Nigula Qian Zishi on November 30, 2010, 01:33:38 AM
According to Fr. Joseph Suaiden, the accusation that he confessed to a layman was a lie. See http://intensedebate.com/commentPopup.php?acct=25f2eed435aa8fc27763aa278620f227&postid=1403831519542038284&posttitle=Father%20Elias%20Yelovich%20received%20into%20Synod%20of%20Milan&posturl=http://news-nftu.blogspot.com/2010/11/father-elias-yelovich-received-into.html (http://intensedebate.com/commentPopup.php?acct=25f2eed435aa8fc27763aa278620f227&postid=1403831519542038284&posttitle=Father%20Elias%20Yelovich%20received%20into%20Synod%20of%20Milan&posturl=http://news-nftu.blogspot.com/2010/11/father-elias-yelovich-received-into.html)
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 30, 2010, 10:56:32 AM
Wow, I saw this link on that blog:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Miller_Newton

 :o
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Nigula Qian Zishi on November 30, 2010, 11:22:47 AM
Wow, I saw this link on that blog:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Miller_Newton

 :o


Well maybe Met Philip will defrock him for wearing his cassock in that picture and not a Roman collar suit?
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Iconodule on November 30, 2010, 01:33:12 PM
According to Fr. Joseph Suaiden, the accusation that he confessed to a layman was a lie. See http://intensedebate.com/commentPopup.php?acct=25f2eed435aa8fc27763aa278620f227&postid=1403831519542038284&posttitle=Father%20Elias%20Yelovich%20received%20into%20Synod%20of%20Milan&posturl=http://news-nftu.blogspot.com/2010/11/father-elias-yelovich-received-into.html (http://intensedebate.com/commentPopup.php?acct=25f2eed435aa8fc27763aa278620f227&postid=1403831519542038284&posttitle=Father%20Elias%20Yelovich%20received%20into%20Synod%20of%20Milan&posturl=http://news-nftu.blogspot.com/2010/11/father-elias-yelovich-received-into.html)

I wonder what it means, then, when he refers to him as "the man who directs my spiritual life".  ???
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Fr. George on November 30, 2010, 01:59:36 PM
I wonder what it means, then, when he refers to him as "the man who directs my spiritual life".  ???

{Speculation} It's likely the difference between saying that you are directed in your spiritual life by St. Basil, and you confess to him.  You can do the former easily, through reading his writings (especially the monastic rules), emulating his spiritual journey, etc.; the latter is, from the Orthodox POV, impossible.  I gain insight and direction from multiple sources (mostly clergy, in my case, but that could easily be because I'm related to a half-dozen priests and have been around clergy my whole life), but I only have 1 spiritual father to whom I go for the sacrament of confession. He may be very well receiving spiritual guidance - verbal, written, or "other" - from the layman without confessing to him. {/ Speculation}

(This is, of course, intended to be a "benefit of the doubt" speculation.  I have no idea what's going on with him, his relationship with his bishops or this other person, etc.)
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: augustin717 on November 30, 2010, 04:19:53 PM
He has already joined the vagantes, apparently.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Hermogenes on November 30, 2010, 05:35:31 PM
Met. Philip has dismissed another priest, this time for posting comments on OCANews.org

http://www.ocanews.org/news/Yelosovich11.9.10.html (http://www.ocanews.org/news/Yelosovich11.9.10.html)

Quote:
Following the posting of two comments on OCANews.org last week Fr. Elias Yelovich, of the Antiochian St. James Mission in Westminster, MD, was dismissed from his parish and suspended by Metropolitan Philip.   

For shame, Met. Philip! For shame.

This dismissed priest was under Bp. Thomas.

I am active online on non-Orthodox forums, and I often get asked to recommend a parish. I will no longer recommend any Antiochian parish to anyone. Period. I'll send them to the Greeks, if necessary (I'm OCA, although used to be AOCA a few years back, and tend to avoid GOA parishes due to the heavy ethnicity and language issues), but absolutely, positively, under ANY circumstances I now REFUSE to send anyone to the Antiochians.

As a friend says, Met. Philip puts the "despota" in "Eis Polla."

Just because a bishop is problematic doesn't mean a parish will be bad. I'd base my recommendations o something besides the personality and actions of his bishop, unless they are likely to intrude on parish life. Metropolitan Phillip has now suspended three priests, out of hundreds. It's very unfortunate (although probably not as cut and dried as the blogs all suggest). But it's not a trend.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Hermogenes on November 30, 2010, 05:37:40 PM
http://ocanews.org/news/MessageReceived11.12.10.html

11.10.10

A REFLECTION ON THE VALUES OF METROPOLITAN PHILIP

In transferring Fr. Paul Alberts and releasing
Fr. David Moretti from his parish, and the
Archdiocese, Metropolitan Philip sent a loud and
clear message-and the message has been received:
the Antiochian Archdiocese is open to unrepentant
convicted criminals who side with Metropolitan
Philip, but closed to those who may walk a tight
rope between "mainstream" Orthodoxy and
"fundamentalism," who find themselves at odds
with the ideology of Metropolitan Philip. . . . . . .


Boy, is THIS a gross over-simplification of the situation.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Schultz on November 30, 2010, 05:47:28 PM
He has already joined the vagantes, apparently.

Where did you read that, if I may ask?
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: augustin717 on November 30, 2010, 06:12:08 PM
He has already joined the vagantes, apparently.

Where did you read that, if I may ask?
http://byztex.blogspot.com/2010/11/former-antiochian-priest-joins-old.html (http://byztex.blogspot.com/2010/11/former-antiochian-priest-joins-old.html)
Just don't say, please, that the "Milan Synod" are not vagantes.
Title: Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
Post by: Schultz on November 30, 2010, 06:31:36 PM
He has already joined the vagantes, apparently.

Where did you read that, if I may ask?
http://byztex.blogspot.com/2010/11/former-antiochian-priest-joins-old.html (http://byztex.blogspot.com/2010/11/former-antiochian-priest-joins-old.html)
Just don't say, please, that the "Milan Synod" are not vagantes.


Thanks for the link! 

And I'm not saying anything about the Milan Synod. :)