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Moderated Forums => Free-For-All => Religious Topics => Topic started by: dattaswami on October 26, 2010, 04:58:35 AM

Title: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 26, 2010, 04:58:35 AM
You should not misunderstand the silence of God to your prayers in your
problems.

Why God is careful while granting boons?

The treasure of God is infinite and will not exhaust by giving you some money


The treasure of God is infinite and will not exhaust by giving you some money.  Similarly, if He cancels your sins, there is no body to question Him.  Then, why is He delaying in giving money to you and in removing your problems by canceling all your sins?  The reason is that His single aim is to transform you in to a divine soul.  If He gives you money, what will be the change in your behavior? If He removes all your problems, what will be the change in the practical style of your life?   If God is sure that there will be no change in your behavior, He will certainly make you wealthy and will remove all your problems.

 A doctor is careful to give sweets to a diabetic patient.  If the sugar-level of the patient rises, the problem in treating the patient also is on the head of the doctor only.  If you become wealthy and get rid of all problems, you may become an uncontrolled demon and disturb the society.  You may be immersed in endless luxuries and fall down.  In such case, to save the society and to save your self, God has to act.  Therefore, God is careful in granting boons.  Except this complication, God is not worried in any way because His power and wealth are infinite.

 If you can become a realized and liberated soul through the spiritual knowledge, then, there will be no change even if you become wealthy and happy.  The spiritual knowledge is like the sugar tablet given to the patient in advance.  In absence of such medicine in advance, the doctor will not give you more sweets since he is aware of your sugar (ego) level in your blood.  Hence, you should not misunderstand the silence of God to your prayers in your problems.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 26, 2010, 05:37:31 AM
Hello.   :)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 26, 2010, 10:42:08 AM
This thread represents the merger of a number of threads - many of which were one-post threads - that all share a common element: the attempted reconciliation of Hindu philosophy and Orthodox theology.  This merger was done in order to curb the attempt at "dominating" the forum with threads on the subject.  This thread will not be locked at present, as this is a discussion forum that promotes discussion - however, the Administration of the Forum continues to affirm that this thread's premise (that Orthodoxy and Hinduism are fully compatible theologically) is false in our opinions, and is "at best" an extreme minority position and "at worst" merely the musing of one forum member.

- Fr. George, Global Moderator


Why do not all see God?

Nobody sees God. God is not touched even by imagination. How can we see God? God enters some medium and becomes visible through that medium (through Lord in human form or Son of God). Through that medium also you are experiencing only the existence God. Only experience of existence is possible. There is no way to see God directly. The current cannot be seen directly. When it flows in a wire only its existence can be experienced.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Fabio Leite on October 26, 2010, 10:52:20 AM
How could one see that which makes vision possible? The eye doesn't see the eye (nor the brain!)


God is the cause of existance itself - truly, in a sense, God does not exist, not in the way we understand existance to be, because He is what *creates* the very act of existing. He creates being, thus He is not a being in the ordinary sense.

It is because we try to find a "god" that exists in a sense like us, that we don't find Him. He is much bigger than that. And yet, this absolutely transcedent God, being no prisioner of His transcedence, *did* exist as one of us.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 26, 2010, 12:59:55 PM
How could one see that which makes vision possible? The eye doesn't see the eye (nor the brain!)


God is the cause of existance itself - truly, in a sense, God does not exist, not in the way we understand existance to be, because He is what *creates* the very act of existing. He creates being, thus He is not a being in the ordinary sense.

It is because we try to find a "god" that exists in a sense like us, that we don't find Him. He is much bigger than that. And yet, this absolutely transcedent God, being no prisioner of His transcedence, *did* exist as one of us.


Did Christ retain his humanity after the resurrection?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Fabio Leite on October 26, 2010, 01:18:57 PM
How could one see that which makes vision possible? The eye doesn't see the eye (nor the brain!)


God is the cause of existance itself - truly, in a sense, God does not exist, not in the way we understand existance to be, because He is what *creates* the very act of existing. He creates being, thus He is not a being in the ordinary sense.

It is because we try to find a "god" that exists in a sense like us, that we don't find Him. He is much bigger than that. And yet, this absolutely transcedent God, being no prisioner of His transcedence, *did* exist as one of us.



Did Christ retain his humanity after the resurrection?

He did. It's precisely this fact that makes our salvation possible. Because now human nature is united with God's nature in Christ, like with Christ, death cannot have a final vitory over us. When He was raised, our nature was raised with him.

This is no small wonder: human nature is now part of the person of the Son of God, of God Himself. We are all in Christ in that sense. Now to "activate" it, materially, we have to go through the sacraments, and spiritually, to have faith.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Cymbyz on October 26, 2010, 01:21:24 PM
It is written, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God."  The ability to see all things clearly is a divine grace-gift; the Holy Spirit pours it out on whomsoever the Holy Trinity wills.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Dart on October 26, 2010, 06:08:38 PM
Gregory Palamas speaks of the unknowable "essence" of God but the experienced "energies" of God. It is through this energy or Grace that we know and experience God.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 26, 2010, 09:32:48 PM
How could one see that which makes vision possible? The eye doesn't see the eye (nor the brain!)


God is the cause of existance itself - truly, in a sense, God does not exist, not in the way we understand existance to be, because He is what *creates* the very act of existing. He creates being, thus He is not a being in the ordinary sense.

It is because we try to find a "god" that exists in a sense like us, that we don't find Him. He is much bigger than that. And yet, this absolutely transcedent God, being no prisioner of His transcedence, *did* exist as one of us.



Did Christ retain his humanity after the resurrection?

He did. It's precisely this fact that makes our salvation possible. Because now human nature is united with God's nature in Christ, like with Christ, death cannot have a final vitory over us. When He was raised, our nature was raised with him.

This is no small wonder: human nature is now part of the person of the Son of God, of God Himself. We are all in Christ in that sense. Now to "activate" it, materially, we have to go through the sacraments, and spiritually, to have faith.

I see. I actually typed resurrection when I meant to say ascension. Either way, I think you answered my question.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Luke on October 26, 2010, 09:34:07 PM
He told Moses to look on Him is to die, so for now it would be death to do so.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 26, 2010, 09:40:02 PM
How could one see that which makes vision possible? The eye doesn't see the eye (nor the brain!)


God is the cause of existance itself - truly, in a sense, God does not exist, not in the way we understand existance to be, because He is what *creates* the very act of existing. He creates being, thus He is not a being in the ordinary sense.

It is because we try to find a "god" that exists in a sense like us, that we don't find Him. He is much bigger than that. And yet, this absolutely transcedent God, being no prisioner of His transcedence, *did* exist as one of us.

Thanks for the reply....You are very correct....

The absolute knowledge of the absolute God is impossible because the absolute God is unimaginable.  The absolute God comes in human form to give you the experience of His existence, in absence of which, you may deny the very existence of the absolute God and may become atheist (Astityeva….Veda).  The identification of the human form in which the absolute God exists is the knowledge of God (Brahma Jnanam or Brahma Vidya).

 The experience of the existence of the absolute God does not reveal any trace of the nature of the absolute God and hence God is always unimaginable.  The only information about the absolute God is that God exists.  “Aum Tat Sat” means that God exists and no more information about God is available.  The word Tat means that God is beyond your imagination. The word Aum denotes that God is the creator, ruler and destroyer of this world.  These three adjectives indicate the works (Creation, rule and destruction) of God only and not the nature of the God.  This is called as the information about the existence only (Sanmatra vada).  God comes in human form, which is characterized by the awareness or chit. 


Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 26, 2010, 09:43:54 PM
He told Moses to look on Him is to die, so for now it would be death to do so.

It means that if you want to see the creator the creation has to disappear then alone you will see the creator God. When the creator disappears since you are a part of the creation you will also disappear along with it. Thus one can never see the original God or absolute God. You can see GOd when He comes in human form to you by entering a most deserving devotee existing on the earth known as Son of God. God enters into Son of God like current in a wire. Thus GOd always present in Son of GOd and preaches through Son of God wonderful knowledge, by seeing such Son of GOd  you have seen the aboslute or original God. You touching such Son of God you have touched the absolute GOd or original GOd. This is the only way to see the original God.

This is the reason Jesus told, Philip, when you see Me (Son of God) you have seen the Heavenly Father (The original God or Absolute God)......
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 26, 2010, 09:46:02 PM
Hi, there.  You're new around these here parts, aren'tcha?  ;D

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 26, 2010, 09:46:41 PM
It is written, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God."  The ability to see all things clearly is a divine grace-gift; the Holy Spirit pours it out on whomsoever the Holy Trinity wills.

A blessed soul can see God. 

 The actual God is not seen by eye since God is not imaginable even to mind, intelligence and logic as per several Vedic statements.  Veda says that the eye cannot see God.  But same Veda says that a blessed soul can see God.  This contradiction is easily removed by taking original God for the first statement and mediated God in human form (Jesus) for the second statement. 

God is not pervading all over the creation because Veda says that God created Universe to see and enjoy it.  If you pervade all over the cinema and become that cinema itself, you cannot see and enjoy it.  Veda says that nothing in the world is God (Neti Neti….).  Veda also says that God entered the world after creating it.  If God already pervaded all over the Universe, there is no meaning in saying that God entered the Universe. 


God does not live in this world but enters the world for the requirement of a few devotees, being omnipotent, but preaching benefits all.

God is beyond creation and hence God does not exist in the world as supported by Veda (Neti Neti..), Gita (Natvaham teshu…) and Bible says that God does not live in this world.  This only means that everything and every body in the world is not God.  But this does not mean that God will not enter the world.  Veda says that God enters the world (Tadevaanupraavishat).  If you say that somebody is not residing in the city of Bombay, it does not mean that he will never visit Bombay. However, the above scriptural statements deny your all pervading God!  The visit of God into this world is justified by the requirement and desire of certain top devotees.

 If you object the entry of God by rule, you are opposing the omni potency of God. Suppose you object the entry of God by establishing the lack of requirement for any devotee, it is also absurd.  You may not require the entry of God but how can you deny the requirement of others, who need entry of the God for the sake of personal service?  The entry of God is not for the sake of all human beings but it is for the requirement of a few devotees.  You cannot generalize the policy of requirement to all the human beings. However, even though God comes to satisfy a few devotees only, He preaches the spiritual knowledge that benefits all.  You can be also benefited by taking Him in the level of preacher only through personal discussions.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 26, 2010, 09:58:07 PM
Quote
You cannot generalize the policy of requirement to all the human beings. However, even though God comes to satisfy a few devotees only, He preaches the spiritual knowledge that benefits all.

1 Timothy 2:3-7

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.


Why would a Christian rely on the Vedas?

In Christ is the fullness of the Truth.

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/christ_2christthelordicon.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 26, 2010, 11:53:58 PM
Quote
You cannot generalize the policy of requirement to all the human beings. However, even though God comes to satisfy a few devotees only, He preaches the spiritual knowledge that benefits all.

1 Timothy 2:3-7

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.


Why would a Christian rely on the Vedas?

In Christ is the fullness of the Truth.

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/christ_2christthelordicon.jpg)

You are correct. God can be seen only through Son of God. This entire creation is only an imagination or dream of God. If you want to see such God who is absolute reality, a relative reality which is His creation has to disappear, then alone you will see God who is alone. But when the creation disappears you also will disappear along with it.

Hence one can never see the original God. But Original God can be seen when He comes in human form. By seeing Jesus you have seen the original GOd in Him. This is the reason why Jesus told to Philip that when you see Me you have seen the Heavenly Father, why then Philip why are you asking Me to show you the Father?

I and Father are one and same, since Father exists in Me all the time-Jesus says.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 26, 2010, 11:55:44 PM
The way to cancel your sins
All the punishments are only for reformation of the soul and not for revenge. The hell is created by God not with vengeance against sinners but due to kindness to reform the souls. God is always kind to reform the souls, which are His children since the souls are created by Him.

The father will never have even a trace of vengeance towards his issues. Jesus always addressed God as father and He propagated this concept by saying that all your sins will be excused by God if you are reformed. Practical knowledge, the practical realization, which is the reformation, will cancel all your previous bad deeds or sins as told in Gita (Jnanaagnih….). Except this one way, there is no other way to cancel the sins and escape from all the present problems in the world and future torture in the hell.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 26, 2010, 11:56:23 PM
You are excused by God for the past sin provided…..
The only way to stop the punishment of sin


Realization is the process of effort to change the soul and reformation is the actual change of the soul. If the soul is reformed, the proof for it is that the sin is not practically repeated. If this result is achieved, there is no need of punishment. The punishment is not for the sake of past sin, since past is past. The punishment is only to change the soul so that in future the sin is not repeated.

The day you have stopped repeating the sin, you are excused by God for the past sin. This is the only way to stop the punishment of sin, which is in the form of problems of life. If you have stopped all the sins, your life will be the happiest and for this you need not pray even God. Prayer to God will not cancel even the trace of the sin.

Ravana (a demon) prayed God in several ways, but, he could not escape the punishment of his sin. If you are committing sin, you are violating the word of God and going against the will of God. God wants you not to commit any sin. His word is the ethical scripture, which says that you should not commit any sin. The sin will disturb the balance of the society since it hurts the co-living beings.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 12:05:54 AM
Quote
This entire creation is only an imagination or dream of God.

You list your faith as Christian and your jurisdiction as Christian. What Christian church teaches this?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:11:28 AM
Quote
This entire creation is only an imagination or dream of God.

You list your faith as Christian and your jurisdiction as Christian. What Christian church teaches this?

Jesus taught this. Jesus told, I and My Father are one and the same. He told to Philip if you see Me you have seen the Father. Jesus also told no body has seen God. He also told while starting His mission He took the book of Isiah where in He read Father is present in Me for preaching divine knowledge to the humanity.


   The real meaning of Jesus statement. The unimaginable God enters the energetic form and is called as the Father of heaven. The same unimaginable God enters a materialized human form and is called as the human incarnation. Narayana is the energetic form charged by the unimaginable God.  Jesus is materialized human form charged by the unimaginable God and the father of heaven is energetic form charged by the same unimaginable God. From the point of content, the unimaginable God, Jesus and father of heaven are one and the same and this is stated by Jesus that He and His father are one and the same. From the point of the charged medium, Jesus is the son of the father of heaven, since the matter came from energy by condensation. From the point of the medium, Jesus said that He is the son of God.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:13:20 AM
Why God keeps silent to somebody even after intensive cry?

Ans. A diabetic patient cries before a doctor to get a sweet for eating. The doctor has infinite number of sweets and he does not worry at all for giving a sweet to the patient. You are crying before God, who is the divine father (creator of all the souls) to give some wealth or to solve some problem. If He helps you, there is not even a trace of any personal loss to Him. Neither His wealth nor His power is finite and nor His love to souls is limited. The only factor that guides Him is to see the future position after the help. If your eyes are to climb the roof of your head after the help, God will keep silent. After the help you will fall down even from your present level and then you will cry again before the same God to lift you up.

 If the doctor gives you the sweet, the level of sugar may go up and the emergent treatment is also the responsibility of the same doctor. Hence the doctor will not give you the sweet.  If the doctor is confident of your health, he may give the sweet. Sometimes the doctor gives the sweet and conducts the emergent treatment to show you the truth, if you are scolding the doctor to be unkind. The response of the doctor lies on his analysis of the situation and it is not the subject of the patient at all. You must have the faith in the doctor (God) that any response is for your good only and you must know that the patient is ignorant of his own real welfare.   

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 12:15:52 AM
The Bhagavad Gita is not Christian Scripture.

However, the Gospels are.

Matthew 16:19

19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”


John 20:22-23

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/300px-Orthodox-confession.jpg)

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:21:40 AM
The Bhagavad Gita is not Christian Scripture.

However, the Gospels are.

Matthew 16:19

19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”


John 20:22-23

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/300px-Orthodox-confession.jpg)


Agree.You cannot please God by prayers and service simultaneously doing sins. If you are doing a sin, you are going against the will of God and you are insulting God. You cannot please and insult God simultaneously. Therefore, every devotee and servant of God should be careful about the concept of the sin and about the only path to cancel the sin.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 12:23:02 AM
Quote
The day you have stopped repeating the sin, you are excused by God for the past sin. This is the only way to stop the punishment of sin, which is in the form of problems of life. If you have stopped all the sins, your life will be the happiest and for this you need not pray even God. Prayer to God will not cancel even the trace of the sin.

Where did you get these teachings? No Christian of whom I've ever heard, would ever say that you do not need to pray in order to be forgiven, nor that you just need to stop the sin and that's all there is.

Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”


Quote
Ravana (a demon) prayed God in several ways, but, he could not escape the punishment of his sin.

Who is this Ravana? What does that have to do with the Christian faith? Demons don't pray.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:26:45 AM
Quote
The day you have stopped repeating the sin, you are excused by God for the past sin. This is the only way to stop the punishment of sin, which is in the form of problems of life. If you have stopped all the sins, your life will be the happiest and for this you need not pray even God. Prayer to God will not cancel even the trace of the sin.

Where did you get these teachings? No Christian of whom I've ever heard, would ever say that you do not need to pray in order to be forgiven, nor that you just need to stop the sin and that's all there is.

Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”


Quote
Ravana (a demon) prayed God in several ways, but, he could not escape the punishment of his sin.

Who is this Ravana? What does that have to do with the Christian faith? Demons don't pray.


Do not worry.

If you do not repeat the sins practically then all your problems in this world will stop. For this you need not pray God. Only thing should not repeat any sin further. The day you stop doing the sin, all your past sins will be forgiven.

This human life is very precious and to be used for pleasing God by serving Him practically.

A good devotee of God serve God like a servant without expecting anything in return, by such love you will become very dear and near to God, for this to happen you have to practically serve God....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 12:27:02 AM
Christians aren't Hindus. No disrespect, but you can't conflate Hinduism with Christianity, or the Vedas with the Bible. You can't just stamp "Agreed" on everything and assume that when each of us says "God," we're talking about the same thing. Monism and syncretism aren't held as truths in the Orthodox Christian faith.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:29:08 AM
Quote
The day you have stopped repeating the sin, you are excused by God for the past sin. This is the only way to stop the punishment of sin, which is in the form of problems of life. If you have stopped all the sins, your life will be the happiest and for this you need not pray even God. Prayer to God will not cancel even the trace of the sin.

Where did you get these teachings? No Christian of whom I've ever heard, would ever say that you do not need to pray in order to be forgiven, nor that you just need to stop the sin and that's all there is.

Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”


Quote
Ravana (a demon) prayed God in several ways, but, he could not escape the punishment of his sin.

Who is this Ravana? What does that have to do with the Christian faith? Demons don't pray.


Here repent means transformation of the soul, and do not repeat the sins further again. If you love GOd and participate in His mission of divine knowledge propagation then you will never repeat sins due to your increase love on God.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:30:58 AM
Christians aren't Hindus. No disrespect, but you can't conflate Hinduism with Christianity, or the Vedas with the Bible. You can't just stamp "Agreed" on everything and assume that when each of us says "God," we're talking about the same thing. Monism and syncretism aren't held as truths in the Orthodox Christian faith.

There is only one God who created this entire universe. God preaches divine knowledge for the upliftment of people in this world. Jesus preached wonderful divine knowledge and transformed many. God is identified from His divine knowledge.

 Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….). This does not mean that God is the knowledge itself. It only means that the possessor of right and excellent knowledge is God and such knowledge is His correct identification mark since it is His inseparable characteristic. If some body wears a red shirt always, the red shirt becomes his identity mark and you can call him as the red shirt like calling “Oh! Red shirt! Come here”. Gita gives clarification on this point, which says that the possessor of knowledge is God (Jnaanitvaatmaiava……).  Since God enters the human being only, such identification is mentioned. The human being is always characterized by the knowledge. Knowledge is one sided characteristic of awareness. It means knowledge is always associated with awareness and awareness need not be associated always with knowledge.

An animal or bird has awareness but no knowledge. Therefore, you should not take awareness as the meaning of the words indicating knowledge in Veda like Jnanam and Prajnanam. This clarification is given in Gita, which says that God enters human body (Manusheem….). Hence, Gita always gives clarifications on Veda. Such correct clarification can be correctly clarified by the human incarnation only since the same God, who said Gita, can alone give the original sense of the text. The Author himself can alone give the correct sense of his own statement. Since, God is one and the same in all the human incarnations, any human incarnation can clarify the text said by any other human incarnation.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 12:33:58 AM
Quote
If you do not repeat the sins practically then all your problems in this world will stop. For this you need not pray God. Only thing should not repeat any sin further. The day you stop doing the sin, all your past sins will be forgiven.

These are not the teachings of the Christian faith. Why do you call yourself a Christian in your profile if you quote the Vedas and are clearly a Hindu?

Are you the same Anil Antony who was on this forum on a Philippines website? It seems you did the same thing there-- spoke in Christian terms but preached pure Hinduism.

http://community.godrev.jesus.net/profile/anilantony?xg_source=activity

Why do you do this?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:34:22 AM
Greeting fellow friends

I'm a keen hunter and i hunt feral animals ; i was wondering if this is a sin and , i always try to asks G_D's forgiveness, after the hunt ? but not sure what the scriptures say about this ?

The animals usually pass very fast , or are put out of their pain humanely .

thank you

R

For eating flesh if you kill, then it is a sin

Non-vegetarian food by it self is not a sin since the analysis of it shows that its contents are the same as exist in vegetarian food. The sin comes by killing a co-living being, which does not harm you at all. If you stop taking non-vegetarian food, killing of living beings is proportionally controlled. Do not say that you are not getting sin since you have not killed the living being directly.

Killing is the highest sin, which gives highest pain to the living being. In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:37:09 AM
Quote
If you do not repeat the sins practically then all your problems in this world will stop. For this you need not pray God. Only thing should not repeat any sin further. The day you stop doing the sin, all your past sins will be forgiven.

These are not the teachings of the Christian faith. Why do you call yourself a Christian in your profile if you quote the Vedas and are clearly a Hindu?

Are you the same Anil Antony who was on this forum on a Philippines website? It seems you did the same thing there-- spoke in Christian terms but preached pure Hinduism.

http://community.godrev.jesus.net/profile/anilantony?xg_source=activity

Why do you do this?

If you analyse my original post you can see i stressed on the importance of not repeating the sin PRACTICALLY. In such case you need not even pray to God for forgiveness, since you are automatically forgiven for all your past sins since from this moment onwards you are not doing any sins further practically.

I have told the truth is there any thing wrong in this. You can also test this in your life itself and can see the results.

God is only one and He speaks through Son of God (Jesus).
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:40:31 AM
Quote
If you do not repeat the sins practically then all your problems in this world will stop. For this you need not pray God. Only thing should not repeat any sin further. The day you stop doing the sin, all your past sins will be forgiven.

These are not the teachings of the Christian faith. Why do you call yourself a Christian in your profile if you quote the Vedas and are clearly a Hindu?

Are you the same Anil Antony who was on this forum on a Philippines website? It seems you did the same thing there-- spoke in Christian terms but preached pure Hinduism.

http://community.godrev.jesus.net/profile/anilantony?xg_source=activity

Why do you do this?

If you analyse my original post you can see i stressed on the importance of not repeating the sin PRACTICALLY. In such case you need not even pray to God for forgiveness, since you are automatically forgiven for all your past sins since from this moment onwards you are not doing any sins further practically.

I have told the truth is there any thing wrong in this. You can also test this in your life itself and can see the results.

God is only one and He speaks through Son of God (Jesus).

Suppose if i am misleading by wrong knowledge, then also need not pray to God to punish me. I will be severely punished by God Himself without even your prayer, because God is very much altert and He will see that no injustice takes place in His kingdom of this world.

Hence why should i unnecessiarily earn, punishment by preaching false? Is i am a fool in such case?

So, i will never mislead people beacuse the all knowing God will punish me.

I have pointed out a practical situtation in which we should avoid doing sin practically.....

...am i misleading people?!!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 12:41:45 AM
Again: Orthodox Christians do not believe in the Vedas.

Are you interested in learning about what Orthodox Christians believe about sin, repentance, confession and forgiveness?

You have stated claims about what God is, what sin is and how to obtain forgiveness. You list yourself as a Christian in your profile, but you quote the Vedas. The Holy Scripture for Christians is not the Vedas.

Perhaps you could benefit from reading something like this:

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7051

And this:

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/


I can't list the entire Bible for you, but here's a site where you can look up passages: http://www.biblegateway.com/

They have many different printings.

There's also an Orthodox printing. http://orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodox_Study_Bible

I hope these are helpful.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:43:14 AM
Again: Orthodox Christians do not believe in the Vedas.

Are you interested in learning about what Orthodox Christians believe about sin, repentance, confession and forgiveness?

You have stated claims about what God is, what sin is and how to obtain forgiveness. You list yourself as a Christian in your profile, but you quote the Vedas. The Holy Scripture for Christians is not the Vedas.

Perhaps you could benefit from reading something like this:

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7051

And this:

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/


I can't list the entire Bible for you, but here's a site where you can look up passages: http://www.biblegateway.com/

They have many different printings.

There's also an Orthodox printing. http://orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodox_Study_Bible

I hope these are helpful.

Thanks for your adivice i will definetly go through it and will follow what you say.


What is sin?

A soul is beaten in the hell and the servants of Yama say “why have you done this deed which is not liked by God?” They will not say “why have you done this sin?” Anything that is not liked by God is a sin. By itself a sin is not a sin, because it is a feeling, which is a wave of awareness and is completely unreal. Hurting any soul, especially a believer in God is the basis of sin according to God. Punishment with an attitude to change the soul is exempted from this concept. There should be no trace of revenge in punishment. If the soul is realized and changed, do not think of revenge. Jesus told that if you punish others for their sins, God shall punish you also for your sins. Punishment of a student by a teacher is not a sin, because it is for his change and upliftment only. The same aim exists when God punishes the souls.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 12:45:56 AM
Jesus did not teach that this Creation is just a dream of God.

That is not something that Christians believe.

Christians do not believe in the Narayana energetic form.

Christianity is not one and the same with Hinduism. Jesus did not teach that.

Read about what teachings are considered untrue: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Heresy

You can't just say "Jesus taught this" and make it true. There is no evidence in the Bible that Jesus taught what you have stated.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 12:53:15 AM
Quote
In such case you need not even pray to God for forgiveness, since you are automatically forgiven for all your past sins since from this moment onwards you are not doing any sins further practically.

Again: this is not a teaching of the Orthodox Christian faith.


Quote
I have told the truth is there any thing wrong in this.

In Hinduism, you call it that. In Orthodox Christianity, you have not.


Quote
You can also test this in your life itself and can see the results.

I am not going to play games with my eternal soul. I am not going to apostatize or accept a heretical teaching about sin, forgiveness and prayer. Jesus did not teach what you have stated. He did not believe in the Vedas, and Christianity is not Hinduism.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 12:55:14 AM
Quote from: dattaswami
In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.

Hinduism.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:55:52 AM
Quote
In such case you need not even pray to God for forgiveness, since you are automatically forgiven for all your past sins since from this moment onwards you are not doing any sins further practically.

Again: this is not a teaching of the Orthodox Christian faith.


Quote
I have told the truth is there any thing wrong in this.

In Hinduism, you call it that. In Orthodox Christianity, you have not.


Quote
You can also test this in your life itself and can see the results.

I am not going to play games with my eternal soul. I am not going to apostatize or accept a heretical teaching about sin, forgiveness and prayer. Jesus did not teach what you have stated. He did not believe in the Vedas, and Christianity is not Hinduism.

I have just mentioned a practical way. you can pray God any time and any no. of time to Jesus.

What I told is if you practically do not repeat sin again then all your sins are forgiven.

Also what is expected from US is to become a true devotee of God who is selfless and work for GOd without expecting anything in return. In such case you need not pray all your needs will be taken care of in a most wonderful manner by God since you have become very dear and near to God by serving Him without any expectation..............
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 12:58:16 AM
Quote
In such case you need not even pray to God for forgiveness, since you are automatically forgiven for all your past sins since from this moment onwards you are not doing any sins further practically.

Again: this is not a teaching of the Orthodox Christian faith.


Quote
I have told the truth is there any thing wrong in this.

In Hinduism, you call it that. In Orthodox Christianity, you have not.


Quote
You can also test this in your life itself and can see the results.

I am not going to play games with my eternal soul. I am not going to apostatize or accept a heretical teaching about sin, forgiveness and prayer. Jesus did not teach what you have stated. He did not believe in the Vedas, and Christianity is not Hinduism.

Jesus also told the same in bible, if you work for the kingdom of GOd then you need not pray all your needs will be taken care of . Look at the birds , tree etc they are not doing anything still GOD meets their needs. Like wise if one is selfless and work for GOD AND LOVE HIM WITHOIUT EXPECTING ANYTHING IN RETURN, then all your needs will be taken care of in a most wonderful manner, in such state you need not even ask GOd, before asking everything will be fulfilled.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 12:59:12 AM
Do you know what repentance and Confession are? Do you know what the Orthodox Christian Church is?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 01:00:52 AM
Quote from: dattaswami
In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.

Hinduism.

You need not beleive in next birth. After death either Hell or Heaven this means that how much altert we should be when we live in this world. This is our last birth and after this do or die situation. Thus when we live in this world, we should keep the notion of death in our mind which will remind us that all our relations and possession will vanish at any point of time due to death, thus we should please God by serving Him without any expecation before we die......

Jesus told:

Luke—14:26 to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 27, 2010, 01:02:42 AM
So if I commit a heinous murder, but then decide not to commit any more, I'm automatically forgiven without asking?  Cool. ;)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 01:04:23 AM
Quote
Jesus also told the same in bible, if you work for the kingdom of GOd then you need not pray all your needs will be taken care of . Look at the birds , tree etc they are not doing anything still GOD meets their needs. Like wise if one is selfless and work for GOD AND LOVE HIM WITHOIUT EXPECTING ANYTHING IN RETURN, then all your needs will be taken care of in a most wonderful manner, in such state you need not even ask GOd, before asking everything will be fulfilled.


Jesus didn't tell us to pray?

Wrong again.


Luke 11

 1 Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.”
2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say:

      Our Father in heaven,
      Hallowed be Your name.
      Your kingdom come.
      Your will be done
      On earth as it is in heaven.
       3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
       4 And forgive us our sins,
      For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
      And do not lead us into temptation,
      But deliver us from the evil one.”


Don't put words in Jesus' mouth, or take words out of them.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 27, 2010, 01:06:13 AM
What in the world does that verse have to do with hunting and the Hindu concept of reincarnation, about which you posted?

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 01:11:48 AM
What in the world does that verse have to do with hunting and the Hindu concept of reincarnation, about which you posted?



Animals also has life. When you kill then you are taking their life forcefully. Jesus told what ever you do to others, same thing will happen to you also.

If you kill, you will be killed in same way!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on October 27, 2010, 01:40:02 AM
Quote
Killing is the highest sin, which gives highest pain to the living being. In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.
How can a being created body and soul, transmigrate? Furthermore, how can an animal become something created in the likeness and image of God? These ideas are found neither in Scripture nor patristics and have no place in Holy Orthodoxy. This is sheer paganism and despite what Vivekananda may say on the matter, it will never be compatible with Orthodox thought.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 03:58:58 AM
Narrow Spiritual Path

MATTHEW 7 : 13 AND 14

“Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction and there are many who go in by it”.

Bhagavathgita says “Manushyaanam Sahasreshu…..” which means that millions of people will try to reach God but only one can reach God. This means that the spiritual path is narrow with one or two devotees only who can reach God. So you should not follow the majority as example in spiritual path. Majority goes to Hell. Will you also go to hell? Diamonds are in minority and gravel stones are in majority. In worldly matters you can follow the majority. But in spiritual line there is only one Jesus one Buddha one Sankara etc., If you are in the association of majority you will be polluted by them since they induce the worldly poison through their conversations (Luke 13: 20 & 21). If you are in the association of the Satguru you will be spiritually strengthened by His gospel.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 03:59:46 AM
Types of people dealt by God

There are five types of people in this world dealt by God. The first type people have real love towards God and sacrifice practically to God. The Lord rewards them with infinite and real fruit. The second type of people sacrifice practically but want to achieve ten times more. Such people are businessmen. They invest little and aspire for more profit. The Lord returns back whatever such people sacrificed. The Lord also gives the extra expected by them but that extra is from their account only.

The good result of a good deed to be enjoyed in the future birth is drawn back with reduced value and is given as the extra, which was aspired by the people. All this process takes place without the knowledge of the people. The third type of the people sacrifice words by prayers and feelings throw devotion without any practical sacrifice. Such people are in the path of a prostitute who also sacrifices sweet words and sweet feelings to extract something practically from a person. The Lord fulfills their aspiration by drawing the good result of their good deal from their future birth. The fourth type of people are atheists.

They enjoying the world created by the Lord and abuse the Lord. The Lord will keep silent towards them in this world. The Lord uses the atheists to test His devotees. He will observe whether such atheists can affect His devotee. Later on the atheist will be severely punished by the Lord. The fifth type of people neither recognizes nor abuses the Lord. They simply enjoy the world without bothering about the Lord. The Lord will throw such people into the births of animals, birds, worms etc. In such births one can enjoy the world without worrying about the Lord.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 04:01:07 AM
The Only Love – Gita-Bible Comparision
Luke—14:26 to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.

The knowledge is compared to a sword. Bhagavatgita says “Chhitva Jnanasinatmanah”. This means that the ignorance should be cut by the knowledge, which is like a sword. The bonds with wife or husband and children are due to ignorance. Such bonds should break when the Lord in human form competes with them to conduct His test. Lord comes in human form in every human generation to preach and give His direct presence. If the Lord comes in only one human generation, God becomes partial to that human generation because other human generations are not blessed with such opportunity. To see, to touch, to talk and to live with the human incarnation, He comes down as per the prayers of the devotees. The Lord comes to preach and so He will not enter the statues or animals or birds. Veda says “Na tasya pratima asti’’ which means that God will not enter the inert statues.

Gita says “Manusheem tanu masritam” which means that God enters the human body only because the main purpose is to preach the human beings. Gita strongly says that he who worships the inert statues will be born as an inert stone (“Bhootani yanti”). The Christians should be commended on this point who are worshipping the Holy Jesus only, who is the most powerful human incarnation of God. Veda says “Na tat samah” which means that nobody and nothing should be equal to the Lord in human incarnation. One should leave everything and everybody for the sake of the Lord in human form. Only the bond with a new human being can break the bond with the human beings. Such new human being must be very powerful who can be only God in human form.

A new bond existing with formless God or statues cannot break the human bonds. Only the bond with another living being can cut the bond with the living beings. The bond with formless God is impossible. The bond with inert statue has no use. The above statements of Holy Jesus indicate that one should cut the bonds with his family and with the wealth. In Hindu religion also it is said that God (Datta) cuts all the bonds of family and wealth (“Dattam Chinnam”). Even the bond with the body should be cut for the sake of the God. Gita says the same thing as “Mat Gata Pranah”. Holy Jesus says that one has to carry his own cross (death) for the sake of the Lord. This means that one has to invite his own death with his own hands for the sake of God. Holy Jesus did like this as an ideal example for others. This means that you have to cut your bonds not only with your family and wealth but also with your life if necessary.

Hanuman, a top devotee, tore his heart with his own nails for the sake of the Lord and was blessed by the Lord to be immortal. So when the devotee sacrifices his life, his life gets protected forever. The essence of this gospel is that the love is proved only by the practical sacrifice. Veda says “Dhanena Tyage nyke…” which means that sacrifice of money proves the real love.

Money is the fruit of the work. So money is another form of work. If it is inconvenient to sacrifice the money, atleast they should sacrifice the other form of money, which is work for the sake of God. Depending on the money all the family members are attached to you. If money is not there all the family will leave you. You are also giving the money to your family only. Therefore if the bond with money is cut and if the money is sacrificed to God, the family bonds are considered as vanished, even though the family exists externally. The work of God in human form is the propagation of His divine gospel. For doing such divine work the family also stands as an obstacle because most of your energy is diverted for the family only. Therefore you do not have any energy to work for the sake of Lord.

Hence Holy Jesus wants His disciples to leave their families for the sake of God. The propagation work needs both money and work. Generally every body works to maintain his family. In the name of maintenance, several luxuries are introduced, which look like essential needs and thus there is no end for your work to earn the money for the sake of your body and your family. Your blindness increases and you will be putting more and more efforts to work and earn money for the sake of the family bonds. In such a case you can never even see the human form of God. At least you should remove your blindness by the divine knowledge if not the actual bonds. People of very high devotion only can cut the actual bonds. You are giving money to your family but you are giving words to God by prayers and you are giving mind to God through meditation.

You are giving love to your family through your work and money, you are calling the sacrifice of words and sacrifice of mind as love to God and you are fooling the God. Your real love is only with your family and not with the God. Holy Jesus tests your real love to God by these statements. The Christian Pope and fathers and the Hindu Acharya and saints left their families and concentrated completely on the work of God. Such pious souls can only be representatives of God in this world.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 04:03:26 AM
Quote
Jesus also told the same in bible, if you work for the kingdom of GOd then you need not pray all your needs will be taken care of . Look at the birds , tree etc they are not doing anything still GOD meets their needs. Like wise if one is selfless and work for GOD AND LOVE HIM WITHOIUT EXPECTING ANYTHING IN RETURN, then all your needs will be taken care of in a most wonderful manner, in such state you need not even ask GOd, before asking everything will be fulfilled.


Jesus didn't tell us to pray?

Wrong again.


Luke 11

 1 Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.”
2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say:

      Our Father in heaven,
      Hallowed be Your name.
      Your kingdom come.
      Your will be done
      On earth as it is in heaven.
       3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
       4 And forgive us our sins,
      For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
      And do not lead us into temptation,
      But deliver us from the evil one.”


Don't put words in Jesus' mouth, or take words out of them.

Do not ask any thing from God which is either related to present or future.  When you ask some thing in present or some thing in the future, it clearly means that you are reminding Him about the corresponding reaction that is to be immediately implemented in the need.  This indirectly means that God is not alert as you are.  This is insulting God.  Due to such sin the requirement is not answered.  If you are asking to protect yourself or somebody else, it indirectly means that He is not aware of the things to be done due to the irresponsibility and this also indicates that He is not as kind as yourself.

 It means that God has potency to help but not kind enough to render the help.  On contrary, it also means that you lack unfortunately the potency.  It means if you fortunately have the potency you could have immediately responded and helped.  Therefore, when ever you ask for anything it clearly means indirectly that God has some type of defect, which does not exist in your case.  When you ask Him to fulfill the desire it looks as if that your desire is constitutionally justified.  But God is not positively reacting due to either lack of positive response immediately or due to lack of knowledge of the constitution or due to lack of kindness to help the needy.  All these points are very very subtle.  But God is the most subtle and therefore, the knowledge of this analysis will certainly restrict you from asking any fulfillment of your desire. 

Never bring present and future before God.  Confine to the past always before God.  Look back at your past life.  Hundreds of incidents are there where you were helped by God.  Even if you dispose some incidents through the incidental probability of success or through the efficiency of your efforts, certainly there are plenty of instances in which the help from God is clearly evident.  At least remember those few incidents and express your gratefulness along praise to God for His kind help that was already done.  The word Krutajnata means remembering the past help.  Kruta means the past help done.  Jna means identifying it by analysis.  If you confine to praying the Lord and thanking Him always about the past helps from Him, the Lord will be immensely pleased.  Then the present and future are spontaneously taken care of by the God.  But do not adopt this technique with a mind that you will be helped by God in the present and in the future by following this procedure! 

You should really follow this path and you should really forget the present and the future.   When large number of people came to hear the message from Jesus, they were hungry by the noon.  This point was brought to the notice of Jesus.  He never asked God to provide food for those hungry people who came to hear God’s word.  Had He asked for that, He would have insulted God.  God knows His responsibility very well towards the devotees who came there to hear about Him.  God has the power to fulfill His responsibility even in the last fraction of second.  Had Jesus told God to bless the devotees with food, it clearly means that God is not as kind as Jesus.  Jesus never asked for any thing.  He came to know that there were four breads.  He took them and showed to sky.  He thanked God for providing those four pieces of bread. 

Immediately the present was responded and the four breads became four thousand breads.  This application of analysis is limited to Nivrutti only.  You should not extend this to Pravrutti.  When you are hungry you have to beg the other souls because they are not omniscient to know that you are hungry.  Pravrutti and Nivrutti should never be mixed.   
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 04:04:05 AM
So if I commit a heinous murder, but then decide not to commit any more, I'm automatically forgiven without asking?  Cool. ;)

Even mental feeling is sin

The sin comes by the feeling itself. Mind is the main reason of the sin. The inert body without mind cannot have the sin.

 Even though Sita was touched by Ravana through body, she was sinless as per the certificate given by the Fire god. Renuka was punished for her mental sin even though her body did not even touch the other person. In such case, can anyone say frankly that he or she is not a sinner at anytime of the life? I have to be very frank because the case that you have moved is very delicate and is of critical nature. I have to expose the facts of this case from all angles without any shy.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 04:06:18 AM
So if I commit a heinous murder, but then decide not to commit any more, I'm automatically forgiven without asking?  Cool. ;)


Jesus told that I would excuse all your sins if you have changed. What is the aim of the punishment? It is only reformation. Why God is punishing? Is it for revenge? Certainly, God will not punish for revenge. Punishment given by God is only for the transformation of the soul. If the soul repents and the soul is transformed, what is the need of punishment again? There is no need. However, in some cases we do not see the abrupt stoppage of suffering.

This is because, you certify your repentance and change, but God has to certify your repentance and change. Sometimes, you might have changed only 60%, 50% or 40%. You may think it is 100%. You may think that you have repented and changed fully. But, you may repeat the sin in some other new circumstances. Therefore, the certificate is to be given by God. He has to examine and He has to convince that you have transformed completely. Once God gets convinced that the soul has got completely transformed then certainly the miseries will disappear. Even if one gets such state, he will become the liberated soul. He has liberation from all miseries and all the karmas. But a liberated soul cannot keep silent. He has to enter the world to serve the mission of God and he almost has the same state of God. God wants to entertain Himself and in the entertainment, He wants misery also. In that case, He gets misery but not attached by misery. He enjoys the misery. It is completely different.

Repentence and subsequent not repeating should be there. Only repentence and if one repeat the same then sin is not cancelled. By just saying i will not repeat will not work with God. Practically one should not repeat any sin further. That stage one should come.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 04:08:39 AM
Jesus did not teach that this Creation is just a dream of God.

That is not something that Christians believe.

Christians do not believe in the Narayana energetic form.

Christianity is not one and the same with Hinduism. Jesus did not teach that.

Read about what teachings are considered untrue: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Heresy

You can't just say "Jesus taught this" and make it true. There is no evidence in the Bible that Jesus taught what you have stated.

Jesus was God and hence He preached wonderful divine knowledge.

The Divine preaching of Holy Jesus is the top most Gospel in the world and touches the climax of the truth. For example Holy Krishna says in Gita that one should withdraw himself from the family bonds slowly like a tortoise withdrawing its limbs (Kurmo ngaaneeva). The tradition of Datta is to cut the family bonds by the Sword of Knowledge as per Gita (Jnanaasi natmanah). But Holy Jesus says that one should hate these family bonds to become His disciple. Cutting the bond is Zero. Existing in the bond is Plus and hating the bond is Minus. Zero is near to Plus and Minus is very far. So if you cut the bond it may form again. But if you hate the bond the bond will never be formed so that the bond with the Lord alone is eternal.

See the preaching of Lord Jesus with impartial attitude and without conservatism. After all a diamond is diamond whether it is foreign diamond or Indian diamond. Thus Holy Jesus is the king of all the divine preachers. He is like the Sun from whom these divine sentences radiate like rays. Holy Bible speaks about the everlasting fire and that the souls have no rebirth. Hindu scriptures say that the soul has rebirth. Both these can be convinced and co-related. The condemned souls enter the everlasting fire, which means that these souls take the births as animals, birds, worms etc, which are like the fire due to the continuous agony. The word “everlasting” means that once the soul enters into the cycle of these births the soul will never come back to the human birth. The rebirth as a human being as told in the Hindu scriptures can be again co-related with the Holy Bible.

Holy Jesus says that the Kingdom of God is extended into this world. The meaning of this is that whenever God comes in human form to stay with us (Immanuel), the disciples of the Lord will be staying in this divine Kingdom on the throwns equally with the Lord. This means the servants of the Lord will take rebirth as human beings and will be preaching here and they will be respected like God. For Ex: The Holy Pope is given the status of God. The Holy Pope and other such top most Bishops and pious Fathers who are indulged in the propagation of the knowledge will get the status of God here itself in this world. Thus, the inner sense is the same in all the scriptures, which is spoken in different ways. The ways are different but the real essence is the same.

The aim of human life is to achieve the grace that is the love of God. Even if you earn more money you are not carrying it after death. Very little money is sufficient to eat and drink which the animals and the birds are also doing even without money. If the aim of the money is only eating, drinking and enjoying, you will be born as animal or bird or worm in the next birth. If your file is opened in the upper world you will not get definitely the human birth. When you serve the Lord in this world when He comes in the human form then only you can get human birth without any enquiry in order to serve the Lord when the Lord reincarnates. You must recognize the Lord by His knowledge, because Veda says that knowledge is Brahman.

Only miracles are not the signs since demons also performed miracles. Gita says that the Lord comes down in human form (Maanusheem tanu masritam). Gita also says that it is very difficult to worship formless (Avyaktahi). Gita also says that if one worships the inert statue, he will be born as a stone (Bhutejya yanti Bhutani). So you must serve the Lord by doing practical service which consists of 1) Sacrifice of work 2) Sacrifice of fruit of work (money), which is also a form of work. The Sacrifice must be to the full extent. When a beggar gives one rupee that is greater than one lakh given by a multi lakhier because the beggar has sacrificed whatever he possessed. Holy Jesus appreciated one old lady who donated whatever she possessed, as the highest divine soul.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 04:18:36 AM
Quote
Killing is the highest sin, which gives highest pain to the living being. In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.
How can a being created body and soul, transmigrate? Furthermore, how can an animal become something created in the likeness and image of God? These ideas are found neither in Scripture nor patristics and have no place in Holy Orthodoxy. This is sheer paganism and despite what Vivekananda may say on the matter, it will never be compatible with Orthodox thought.



A goat is a pure vegetarian but you are eating that goat also.  When you find a human being, who is a murderer, will you kill him directly or hand over him to the court?  Assuming that the fish is also a murderer, you cannot kill it directly.  God will punish it.  In the case of the fish, you need not file a case against the fish in the court of the God, because there is no need of such filing in the case of God.  Moreover you are raising your voice against the hanging of a murderer stating, “If you cannot give life, you have no right to take it away”.  You are also pleading that hanging is the most barbaric deed and that several countries have banned it.

 Your statement applies to the fish also, which is a murderer of the creatures.  Life is common in the human being as well as the fish.  Both are living beings.  If you don’t have right to take away the life of a human being, you have also no right to take the life of the fish also.  The Dharma Shastras say that non-voilence is the highest justice (Ahimsa Paramo Dharmah).  If you say that the fish kills the creatures for food and that there is no sin, there should not be sin if cornivorous hunters from forest enter the city and start eating the human beings.

 You should not object their food also, but you will kill them because your fellow human beings are killed.  If you broaden your heart and see the fish as your fellow living being, you are practicing the highest form of justice, which pleases the Lord.  You cannot compare the plants with animals and birds.  Even in the case of plants, the green plants should not be cut.

Plucking leaves and fruits is not killing.  The crops are cut only when they die after loosing the sign of the life, which is the Green Chlorophyll.  In plants life exists but mind and intelligence do not exist.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on October 27, 2010, 05:00:55 AM
They enjoying the world created by the Lord and abuse the Lord. The Lord will keep silent towards them in this world. The Lord uses the atheists to test His devotees. He will observe whether such atheists can affect His devotee. Later on the atheist will be severely punished by the Lord. The fifth type of people neither recognizes nor abuses the Lord. They simply enjoy the world without bothering about the Lord. The Lord will throw such people into the births of animals, birds, worms etc. In such births one can enjoy the world without worrying about the Lord.

I much prefer the reincarnation scheme of Carpocrates the gnostic, who says that, once we experience all there is to experience (including atheism and wickedness, asceticism, love, virtue, etc.) across the span of one or more lives, that we will ascend to God. ;)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 05:09:34 AM
They enjoying the world created by the Lord and abuse the Lord. The Lord will keep silent towards them in this world. The Lord uses the atheists to test His devotees. He will observe whether such atheists can affect His devotee. Later on the atheist will be severely punished by the Lord. The fifth type of people neither recognizes nor abuses the Lord. They simply enjoy the world without bothering about the Lord. The Lord will throw such people into the births of animals, birds, worms etc. In such births one can enjoy the world without worrying about the Lord.

I much prefer the reincarnation scheme of Carpocrates the gnostic, who says that, once we experience all there is to experience (including atheism and wickedness, asceticism, love, virtue, etc.) across the span of one or more lives, that we will ascend to God. ;)


Only one Lord created this entire universe. He should have told the same knowledge everywhere in the world. The contradiction is only due to misunderstanding. In Hinduism also Sankara says that again human birth is almost impossible (Jantunaam Nara Janma Durlabhamidam). Sankara was the incarnation of Siva and so what He told is also authoritative. Even Gita says that the soul comes back to this world but does not say that the soul gets again the human birth (Ksheene Punye Martyalokam Visanti). In the second chapter, Gita speaks about rebirth but not about the human rebirth. Islam and Christianity say that the human birth is given only as a single chance. After this the final judgement is given. The soul either goes to the Lord or goes to the hell permanently. In Gita also there are two ways for the soul. Either the soul goes to the Lord and does not return back or the soul returns back to the world (Abrahma Bhuvanath, Yat Gatva). According to Gita, if the soul does not go to the Lord (Brahmaloka), it returns back after enjoying the fruits of incomplete spiritual effort. Therefore in this human birth, if the spiritual effort is completed, the soul goes to the Brahmaloka permanently.

If the spiritual effort is incomplete the soul may go up to any world below Brahmaloka, it will return back to this earth after enjoying the fruits of its incomplete spiritual effort. The soul may go up to the sixth world, it cannot go to the Brahmaloka, which is the seventh world by doing the remaining spiritual effort in the sixth world. The reason is once the soul leaves this earth all the upper worlds are only Bhogalokas i.e., the worlds in which the soul can enjoy the fruits, but cannot do any work (Karma). Therefore the soul has to return back to the earth. The soul will not get again another chance of human birth because once it is failed it can never succeed. Therefore the soul comes to the earth and falls into the cycle of animals and birds only. When the soul is trapped in this cycle of animal births, it is treated as a permanent hell.

If the soul goes to Brahmaloka it always accompanies the Lord either in Brahmaloka or may come back to the earth along with the Lord who takes the human incarnation. In such case the soul is born as a divine servant of the Lord. Such soul will not take rebirth in the cycle of animals. Thus for the divine soul also there is no such rebirth. In this way Hinduism, Islam and Christianity are correlated as one concept preached by the one Lord. Christians and Muslims are putting up sincere spiritual effort because there is a threat that this human life is the only chance. There is no reexamination according to these religions. This human birth is the only one examination and the soul either passes or fails and will not be allowed for any reexamination. But in Hinduism such threat is not there.

People have taken a lenient view on the spiritual life because they think that the human rebirths are possible and so they can put up the spiritual effort slowly in the future human births. The Lord cannot say different theories to different people. The rule must be same for all the human beings of the world. Therefore whatever the Lord told in Christianity and Islam also told the same in Hinduism. Hindus misunderstood the concept. Therefore what ever may be the religion, every human being should think “Now or Never”.

The human rebirth is only for Yoga Bhrashta i.e., the soul, which has reached Brahmaloka and fell due to some slip. Such a soul is suspended from Brahmaloka and comes down to the earth and takes rebirth as a human being only. You have passed the P.G. Degree and obtained the post of the lecturer. But you were suspended for a month due to some mistake. You will be re-appointed.

Similarly the Yoga Bhrashta will be born as a human being for some time and will come back to Brahmaloka. The case of incomplete spiritual effort is different from Yoga Bhrashta. The incomplete spiritual person is like a B.A. Degree holder who never achieved the lecturer post. You cannot argue that you can be appointed as a seventy five percent lecturer since you reached seventy five percent of the total educational period (from school to P.G.Degree is hundred percent) by getting a B.A. Degree.

Thus there is no partial achievement by partial spiritual effort. The grace of the Lord is either hundred percent or zero. If it is hundred percent you are reaching Brahmaloka. If it is Zero percent you are falling back to the earth in the cycle of animals and birds. There is no third way in between these two. When this truth is revealed, only one in thousands will try to put the real spiritual effort as said in Gita (Manushyaanaam Sahasreshu). By this Hindus will become alert in spiritual effort like Christians and Muslims.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on October 27, 2010, 05:30:20 AM
That was pretty quick, dattaswami, almost like you just copy and pasted it... never forget that Google tells all (http://www.micsem.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=693) ;)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 05:40:44 AM
Your intelligence can never imagine original God
Any amount of logical analysis of intelligence fails to imagine the original God


   The original God, having no spatial dimensions, is beyond space. If you want to see such original God, you have to cross the space. In doing so, you have to reach the boundary of the space. Unless you cross the boundary of Andhra Pradesh, you cannot enter Tamilnadu. If you reach the boundary of Andhra Pradesh, you can see Tamilnadu from there. Similarly, if you reach the boundary of space, you can see the original God starting from that boundary. But, space is infinite and hence its boundary can never be achieved. If the original God has spatial dimensions, it means, the space is in God. It means, you have not achieved the boundary of space. Your intelligence can never cross the spatial dimensions and can never go beyond space. This means, your intelligence can never imagine the original God.

Intelligence is the highest faculty having the power of imagination after thorough analysis. Any amount of logical analysis of intelligence fails to imagine the original God. Veda says this (Namethayaa….,Naishaatarkena….). There is no need of saying that lower faculties like mind, life etc., fail to imagine the original God. Life has very dormant power of thinking. Mind has the power of thinking but cannot analyze anything. Veda says that God generated the space. If God has spatial dimensions, it means that God has space. In such case, space exists in God even before its generation. This contradicts the statement that God generated the space. The mud generated pot. The pot is not in the mud before its generation. This is the starting point or foundation of the spiritual knowledge.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on October 27, 2010, 05:43:38 AM
Are you here to discuss what you are saying, or are you just going to copy and paste stuff that you've already posted elsewhere on the net?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 05:47:40 AM
Are you here to discuss what you are saying, or are you just going to copy and paste stuff that you've already posted elsewhere on the net?

It is seriously for discussion, i invite you for that....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 27, 2010, 06:10:06 AM
God is the absolute reality hence invisible

The unimaginable concept of God is not from the side of God. It is only from your side since it is your defect. Your imagination cannot transcend the dimensions of space to understand God, who is beyond space, being the creator of space.

God is the absolute reality and the space along with consequent creation is a relative reality. This point keeps God beyond space. This point cannot be sacrificed because the creation including space can be possible and under the full control of God only, if God alone is the absolute reality. If both God and creation are absolute realities, the control of God on creation becomes impossible. If both are absolute realities, you can see God in the space itself. But, there cannot be two absolute realities. Absolute reality can be one only. Otherwise, there is no possibility of creation. The concept of creation comes into the picture only when one absolute reality exists and creates the relative reality.


A real rope cannot create a real snake. A real rope can create a false snake as an illusion. Therefore, to see the absolute God, you have to make the world as another absolute reality and in such case the creation becomes impossible. All this is the technical difficulty in the process of creation and hence it is inevitable. If you understand this analysis, you will not mistake God as sadist troubling you by hiding Himself. All this analysis is given by Shankara.


[All these information are regarding the absolute God, but such God comes in human form to allow us to see¬ Him, through the human incarnation]
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on October 27, 2010, 07:25:22 AM
Nice work, Asteriktos. Hello, Anil....  :D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 27, 2010, 07:35:01 AM
So where is the Church in all this? Where is sacramental Confession?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on October 27, 2010, 07:41:20 AM
No need for the Church. Just offer devotion to Anil's guru, Shri Datta Swami, whose face has been conveniently photoshopped over all the world's religious founders: (http://www.universal-spirituality.org/images/collage-home-page.gif) Take your pick.

Even "Science!"  :laugh:
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: recent convert on October 27, 2010, 07:43:24 AM
Well I think climate is also a big factor in determining how diets are formed; I wouild think as eskimo in their traditional existence couild not be vegetarian so for those who are Orthodox, economy I presume, is extended. Surely pure vegetarianism is easily a Christian life & our fasts during Lent & Nativity require part of our lives to be vegetarian (health concerns aside for individuals). We also have to remember that our Lord allowed a herd of swine to stampede off a cliff when the demons asked that they possess it.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: NorthernPines on October 27, 2010, 10:43:11 AM
Are you here to discuss what you are saying, or are you just going to copy and paste stuff that you've already posted elsewhere on the net?

It is seriously for discussion, i invite you for that....

Then why are you copy and pasting these articles from your website? http://dattaswami.blog.co.uk/2006/02/25/meaning_by_vairaagyam_sayujyam_and_kaiva~591345/ (http://dattaswami.blog.co.uk/2006/02/25/meaning_by_vairaagyam_sayujyam_and_kaiva~591345/)


Why not come here, introduce yourself in accord with good manners, and come right out and say that you are (some sort) of practicing Hindu? Why put "Christian" in your "faith" title? Christian implies specific beliefs. You have come here incognito and tried to pass yourself off as something you are not, or at least this is the assumption of some of us. If you are a Hindu who is a devotee of Jesus, why not say so? Why not title your faith as "Christian Hindu" or something? We are not going to flame you because you are a Hindu. If you want to have an honest and open dialogue about the similarities and differences between Hinduism and Christianity (particularly Eastern Christianity which has a number of similarities) at least some of us would be more than willing to do that.

I myself am fascinated with Hinduism and see lots of common ground. We have a few people here who are former Hindus, and others who simply like discussions and dialogue. But it's hard to "dialogue" with someone who simply cuts and pastes from things they have written years before. That's not dialogue, that's quote mining....how do we even know that you have actually written this stuff? Is that actually your website? If it is not, you need to give credit to the original author for copyright reasons. If it is you, why can't you just take the time to type some of your own thoughts afresh? Why the desire to flood the board with multiple topics all at once? And why are trying to convince us you are "right" in these matters? Somehow it seems at odds with the thoughts of gurus like Rama Krishna who taught the path to God is found equally in all faiths. 

I'd personally love to talk about Christianity and Hinduism, but so far all I see is a bunch of disjointed threads with no sense of "this is what I believe and why" rather the threads give the impression that their truth is self evident and we will all see that upon reading them and then, what, "convert" to Hinduism? That makes no sense because personally if I DID do that, I would still choose Jesus as the Avatar I would worship, very little would change for me personally, other than some esoteric doctrines and some issues of metaphysics.

Let me put it another way, none of us really understands what it is you are doing and why you have posted these cut and paste jobs. The fact that you've posted the exact same things all over the internet, at Christian, interfaith and even Judaism message boards implies not a desire to engage in conversation but an attempt to "prove" something to us. I could be very wrong, if so I will apologize, but right now it's just hard to discern what is happening here. I intend no offense, and a good discussion about Hinduism would be fun, but only if it is honest and open.


NP
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Shanghaiski on October 27, 2010, 01:38:10 PM
Why are you posting these weird things here?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 27, 2010, 11:42:40 PM
To the OP:  Did anyone here ask you the questions you're answering?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 04:16:38 AM
Are you here to discuss what you are saying, or are you just going to copy and paste stuff that you've already posted elsewhere on the net?

It is seriously for discussion, i invite you for that....

Then why are you copy and pasting these articles from your website? http://dattaswami.blog.co.uk/2006/02/25/meaning_by_vairaagyam_sayujyam_and_kaiva~591345/ (http://dattaswami.blog.co.uk/2006/02/25/meaning_by_vairaagyam_sayujyam_and_kaiva~591345/)


Why not come here, introduce yourself in accord with good manners, and come right out and say that you are (some sort) of practicing Hindu? Why put "Christian" in your "faith" title? Christian implies specific beliefs. You have come here incognito and tried to pass yourself off as something you are not, or at least this is the assumption of some of us. If you are a Hindu who is a devotee of Jesus, why not say so? Why not title your faith as "Christian Hindu" or something? We are not going to flame you because you are a Hindu. If you want to have an honest and open dialogue about the similarities and differences between Hinduism and Christianity (particularly Eastern Christianity which has a number of similarities) at least some of us would be more than willing to do that.

I myself am fascinated with Hinduism and see lots of common ground. We have a few people here who are former Hindus, and others who simply like discussions and dialogue. But it's hard to "dialogue" with someone who simply cuts and pastes from things they have written years before. That's not dialogue, that's quote mining....how do we even know that you have actually written this stuff? Is that actually your website? If it is not, you need to give credit to the original author for copyright reasons. If it is you, why can't you just take the time to type some of your own thoughts afresh? Why the desire to flood the board with multiple topics all at once? And why are trying to convince us you are "right" in these matters? Somehow it seems at odds with the thoughts of gurus like Rama Krishna who taught the path to God is found equally in all faiths. 

I'd personally love to talk about Christianity and Hinduism, but so far all I see is a bunch of disjointed threads with no sense of "this is what I believe and why" rather the threads give the impression that their truth is self evident and we will all see that upon reading them and then, what, "convert" to Hinduism? That makes no sense because personally if I DID do that, I would still choose Jesus as the Avatar I would worship, very little would change for me personally, other than some esoteric doctrines and some issues of metaphysics.

Let me put it another way, none of us really understands what it is you are doing and why you have posted these cut and paste jobs. The fact that you've posted the exact same things all over the internet, at Christian, interfaith and even Judaism message boards implies not a desire to engage in conversation but an attempt to "prove" something to us. I could be very wrong, if so I will apologize, but right now it's just hard to discern what is happening here. I intend no offense, and a good discussion about Hinduism would be fun, but only if it is honest and open.


NP

Hi, as you said there is a lot of similarity between Christanity and Hinduism.The Divine preaching of Holy Jesus is the top most Gospel in the world and touches the climax of the truth. For example Holy Krishna says in Gita that one should withdraw himself from the family bonds slowly like a tortoise withdrawing its limbs (Kurmo ngaaneeva). The tradition of Datta is to cut the family bonds by the Sword of Knowledge as per Gita (Jnanaasi natmanah). But Holy Jesus says that one should hate these family bonds to become His disciple. Cutting the bond is Zero. Existing in the bond is Plus and hating the bond is Minus. Zero is near to Plus and Minus is very far. So if you cut the bond it may form again. But if you hate the bond the bond will never be formed so that the bond with the Lord alone is eternal.

See the preaching of Lord Jesus with impartial attitude and without conservatism. After all a diamond is diamond whether it is foreign diamond or Indian diamond. Thus Holy Jesus is the king of all the divine preachers. He is like the Sun from whom these divine sentences radiate like rays. Holy Bible speaks about the everlasting fire and that the souls have no rebirth. Hindu scriptures say that the soul has rebirth. Both these can be convinced and co-related. The condemned souls enter the everlasting fire, which means that these souls take the births as animals, birds, worms etc, which are like the fire due to the continuous agony. The word “everlasting” means that once the soul enters into the cycle of these births the soul will never come back to the human birth. The rebirth as a human being as told in the Hindu scriptures can be again co-related with the Holy Bible.

Holy Jesus says that the Kingdom of God is extended into this world. The meaning of this is that whenever God comes in human form to stay with us (Immanuel), the disciples of the Lord will be staying in this divine Kingdom on the throwns equally with the Lord. This means the servants of the Lord will take rebirth as human beings and will be preaching here and they will be respected like God. For Ex: The Holy Pope is given the status of God. The Holy Pope and other such top most Bishops and pious Fathers who are indulged in the propagation of the knowledge will get the status of God here itself in this world. Thus, the inner sense is the same in all the scriptures, which is spoken in different ways. The ways are different but the real essence is the same.

The aim of human life is to achieve the grace that is the love of God. Even if you earn more money you are not carrying it after death. Very little money is sufficient to eat and drink which the animals and the birds are also doing even without money. If the aim of the money is only eating, drinking and enjoying, you will be born as animal or bird or worm in the next birth. If your file is opened in the upper world you will not get definitely the human birth. When you serve the Lord in this world when He comes in the human form then only you can get human birth without any enquiry in order to serve the Lord when the Lord reincarnates. You must recognize the Lord by His knowledge, because Veda says that knowledge is Brahman.

Only miracles are not the signs since demons also performed miracles. Gita says that the Lord comes down in human form (Maanusheem tanu masritam). Gita also says that it is very difficult to worship formless (Avyaktahi). Gita also says that if one worships the inert statue, he will be born as a stone (Bhutejya yanti Bhutani). So you must serve the Lord by doing practical service which consists of 1) Sacrifice of work 2) Sacrifice of fruit of work (money), which is also a form of work. The Sacrifice must be to the full extent. When a beggar gives one rupee that is greater than one lakh given by a multi lakhier because the beggar has sacrificed whatever he possessed. Holy Jesus appreciated one old lady who donated whatever she possessed, as the highest divine soul.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 04:17:56 AM
To the OP:  Did anyone here ask you the questions you're answering?

Such questions can come in the mind of many devotees also.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 04:21:51 AM
So where is the Church in all this? Where is sacramental Confession?

you can go to church and first you can repent about your sins and go to the confession, there you can tell all your sins to the Father and ask for forgiveness. you should do the prayer for forgiveness and recite those prayers.....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 04:32:54 AM
Nice work, Asteriktos. Hello, Anil....  :D
HI
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 04:48:18 AM
Judge By Knowledge

Suppose there are two teachers and one is a Hindu and the other is a Christian. You must judge the teacher by His knowledge and way of preaching. Accept that teacher whose teaching inserts into your heart deeply and make you understand the subject. Such knowledge will definitely lead to practice. Similarly you judge any scripture by the value of its knowledge and the way of preaching the knowledge. Don’t be biased in such judgment because you will be helped by the knowledge of the teacher and not by the teacher. If you insist that Lord Krishna is the only God and Holy Bhagavathgita is the only scripture by which one can get the salvation, it is not correct.

 I will put a question here. If what you say is correct the information about Lord Krishna and Holy Bhagavatgita should have been given to the entire world on one day and in the same minute. Then those who follow will get salvation and those who do not follow will go to hell. Then God becomes impartial to all the human beings. But Krishna and Bhagavathgita existed in India thousands of years ago. The information about Krishna and Bhagavathgita reached other countries only about 500 hundred years back when Vasco-da-gama invented a route to India.

Before the invention of India, the Indians were blessed by Lord Krishna and Bhagavat Gita. But, what about the foreigners? They did not have any information.

In the absence of the information how can they follow Krishna and Bhagavathgita? It is not their fault when the information itself was absent. All the foreigners before 500 years went to hell according to your argument. That is not justified because they were not informed. This means God became partial to India only. But God is impartial. All the human beings in the world are His children only. Therefore such rigid argument of conservatism is foolish. Of course this applies to every religion who follows such conservatism. Be open minded and read all the scriptures and judge by the merit. You must judge the teacher by his knowledge and way of preaching only and not by the teacher’s caste, sex and religion.

Therefore, I advice all the Hindus to read the preaching of Holy Jesus and get the spiritual benefit out of them. His teachings are very sharp and shrewd like the powerful rays of radiating Sun, which will help you in your spiritual effort. Don’t be biased by the external culture, which is apparent only. Are you not using the fan, the electric bulb, television etc., which are invented by the Christian scientists? Similarly you should use the diamonds that came out from the mouth of Holy Jesus in your spiritual efforts and get their benefit.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 05:01:49 AM
The Real Conversion

MATTHEW 3 : 11 (Mark 1 : 1 to 8, Luke 3 : 1 to 18)

“I indeed baptize you with water ….He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”

Veda says ‘Prajnanam Brahma’ which means that the Holy Spirit is the divine nowledge. Gita says ‘Jnanaagnih’ which means that knowledge is fire. This means that the acceptance of Holy Jesus should be through His knowledge radiating through His sentences, which are like diamonds coming out from His mouth. The acceptance should not be just by sprinkling some water.

If you accept Holy Jesus just for some money or bread or some materialistic benefits, that is not the real conversion. Your spirit i.e., the soul should be attracted directly by His powerful knowledge. The Holy water represents rituals without knowledge. Unless you study Vedas (Upanishaths) and Bhagavat Gita and realize the knowledge by putting it in practice you cannot be a Hindu.

 A true Hindu is always a true Christian because the practical sacrifice is the same in any religion. Whether you can leave your family and money and come to God or not is same in any religion. The knowledge is same in all the scriptures. Whether you are a doctor studied in English medium or French medium, you can cure the disease of any patient and perform the surgery. Religions are only languages and knowledge is the content of the syllabus. Anybody does not understand the Brotherly-hood of all the religions.

If you travel along the religion – river you will reach the Spiritualism – ocean. Live as a sea fish and don’t be stagnant as a river fish by stopping your journey which should be along with the flow of religion – river. If a Hindu insults Holy Jesus and Holy Bible, he has insulted Holy Krishna and Holy Gita. Same thing applies to the follower of any religion. Let each human being understand all the religions by reading the scriptures of all the religions. An Indian goes to a foreign country and takes a degree in medicine studying the subject in that foreign language.

If he comes back to India he can practice applying the subject he studied to any human being. He can perform the surgery to any person. You are purchasing a diamond from a foreign country or you throwing it away since it is the foreign diamond. You are using the fan, the electric bulb the television etc., which are invented by foreign scientists and you are using these things in your daily life. Why not you use the diamond like concepts from the foreign scriptures like Holy Bible in your spiritual life also? This question applies to the follower of every religion.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 05:03:02 AM
   In the Gita, it is said that ‘No work binds Me’. What is the meaning of this?
God does not aspire for any fruit. He does not have any selfish aspiration. Therefore, He will not do any selfish work. Here, karma means the work done to achieve selfish goals. Such work will not touch Him and cannot bind Him. He will not be bound by the work for achieving the selfish goals because He does not have any selfishness. There is nothing for Him to achieve for Himself. Work means work done to achieve a selfish goal.

Unselfish work will not bind. Always a fellow is bound limited by selfish work only. Unselfish work never binds. Suppose you are doing a job. If you go to work with the attitude like ‘this is my job’, ‘I have to maintain my family’ etc., then you get tension. Suppose you attend the job of your friend, you do it without any selfishness. You are trying to help somebody else when some problem comes. There will be not any tension for you.

When you do your work, imagine that it is not your work and it is somebody else work you are doing then you will be relieved from tension. When such is the state that even by assumption, you are relieved of tension and then if you really work for others, you will be really relieved from tension.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 05:04:46 AM
Jesus cured a blind person & told that it is to glorify God. Is it not injustice?

[In the Bible, there is an incident, in which Jesus cures a person who is blind by birth and Jesus spoke to the people that he was born blind not because of his sins, but for the glory of God. Is it not injustice and cruelty of God?]

You have not the understood the context, which God alone knows. God will never do injustice. His acts are always just only. The person is born blind due to his own previous deeds only, and God is not at all responsible for that. This is the truth. This particular incident can be analysed in two ways. In the first case, the person would have completely undergone the results of his bad deeds by the time he saw Jesus. The cure by Jesus would have coincided with the end of punishment for his previous deeds.

 In the second case, Jesus would have actually carried the sins, which are supposed to be suffered by that blind person. Also, by such verses, Jesus tested the attitude of the blind person towards Him. If he is a real devotee, when Jesus spoke that he is born blind for the glory of God, he would have accepted that statement thinking that it is the wish of God.

In this case, the person is a real devotee of God and he never criticized God by hearing those statements from Jesus, rather he praised Him.


Infact, Jesus carried the sins of that person, during His crucifixion. The thorns, which were put on His head, pierced His eyes also, by which Jesus carried the sins of the blind person. This incident shows that God is always kind and He comes in human form and carries the sins of His People on to Him. His people are those who love Him alone without any desire or expecation.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on October 28, 2010, 05:10:41 AM
Dear friend,

I'm not sure what your intention is in posting your comments here. This is an Orthodox Christian forum. It seems that your messages are aimed at Hindus, and therefore are not relevant here. I'm sure you have some good things to say, but posting your ideology here can cause confusion and mislead many people. I encourage you to find another more appropriate forum to dispense your ideas. Please respect our Orthodox Christian Faith and our desire to be clear in promoting Orthodox Christian Truth on this forum. If you are an Orthodox Christian, please find a less confusing way to communicate your thoughts. Perhaps you could start a single thread dealing with Orthodox Christian evangelism to Hindus. Or if you want to discuss and compare Orthodox Christianity and Hinduism, then start a single thread about that.

Thank you for considering my concerns.


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 05:11:09 AM
A criminal was sanctioned heaven by Lord Jesus. How?

On the cross, when Jesus is present in such a horrible condition, the two theives who were also crucified got the same universal doubt that how the Lord in human form is crucified who is crying loudly asking "Oh! Lord! Why did you leave Me?" This scene will clearly establish the doubt in the heart of any human being that Jesus cannot be the Lord. The doubt comes with a main point that why the Lord was unable to protect Himself and that How can He protect others? But the doubter should also think the scene in which Lord Jesus asked a dead body to become alive. Only the Lord has the power to give the life. Thus we find both the contradicting concepts of the Lord and the human body of the Lord.

The concept of the Lord attracts the human beings. The concept of the human body tests the human beings and filters the real devotee out of them. The second thief believed Holy Jesus as the Lord even in that pathetic condition. Such devotion is great and real. He did not show this belief when he saw the Holy Jesus raising the dead body.

When a girl loved the son of a king who is in the disguise of a beggar, such love is great. When the king declares himself as the king, every girl loves him to marry and become the queen. The thief did not ask any worldly desire. He could have asked Holy Jesus to give Him the life itself and Holy Jesus could have given it because He is still the Lord even on the cross. The thief asked only protection in the upper world and did not ask for any materialistic boon.

Thus he is certainly a higher devotee also. He did not see any miracle and believed Holy Jesus as the Lord, who placed Himself in such a worst situation. The human incarnation is a game of the Lord (Narayana) and human body (Nara). The thief showed correct understanding of the human incarnation. The internal Lord is great and the external human body follows all the natural rules. A blade can cut even the shirt of a king.

Even though his shirt is cut the king does not loose his powers and quality of kindness. The thief approached the internal Lord and the internal Lord assured the thief. This shows how realized soul the thief is? That is the highest test for the faith in the spirituality and so the thief deserves complete grace of the Lord. The other thief got confused the Lord with the human body. Like all the other human beings he thought if the shirt of a king is torn, the king lost all his powers.

Gita says that even the highest criminal is blessed by the Lord if he is a real devotee (Apichet Sa duracharah…..). The Lord considers the faith and devotion as the criteria and not the qualities of the devotee. We pay for the contents in the cup and not for the colour or material of the cup. Kannappa, a hunter was given salvation by Lord Shiva. The Lord sees the selfless sacrifice and faith, which are the fruits of real devotion and real knowledge. When Lakshmana became unconcious Rama was weeping.

 Hanuman brought the Sanjeevi Hill and saved Lakshmana. Rama expressed His gratefulness to Hanuman. In this scene even the audience will believe that Hanuman is God and Rama is a devotee. But Hanuman Himself declared that He could do the service by the grace of the Lord Rama only. This is a test for His faith and faith is the fruit of determination that comes out from the divine knowledge. Sacrifice is fruit of the devotion or love. Lord tests your faith and your sacrifice so that you will know in what stage of divine knowledge and devotion you are.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 28, 2010, 05:44:27 AM
You should start a church. I'll come visit out of curiousity...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 06:30:21 AM
You should start a church. I'll come visit out of curiousity...
People are always under the illusion of majority.  People think that whatever is done by the majority is always good.  They expect their son to study, earn a job, marry and have children.  The sons of majority are doing like this.  Therefore, people think that this is the good path.  Therefore, they expect their sons also to follow the same good path.  If any son tries to deviate from this path the parents are worried.  Of-course the deviation from this path may be towards positive or negative side.  If one is leaving this earth, he may fly to the sky or may fall into the downward pit called ‘Patala’.  Both are deviations.  Similarly, if the son deviates from this normal path and becomes a lazy fellow and is trapped by bad habits the deviation is negative.

  In such case the son should be forced to the normal path.  He should be brought to the ground from the pit.  But if the son deviates from the normal path and is turned towards God by becoming a monk, the parents should encourage and appreciate.  If some body is leaving the ground and is flying to the sky, it should be appreciated.  Therefore, the negative deviation should be condemned and the positive deviation should be appreciated.  

The Scriptures say that if a couple is not having a son, they will go to the hell called ‘Put’ (Punnama Naraka).  Does this mean that Sankara, Rama Krishna Parahamsa etc., who did not have sons have gone to the hell?  Does this mean the demons who had sons have not gone to the hell?  This statement of the scripture has to be understood with reference to the negative deviation.  This means that one should marry and get a son by leading a disciplined regular family life and one should not be unmarried and should not be trapped by bad habits like moving with prostitutes.  Thus, with reference to this negative deviation only the normal path is appreciated.  This means that you should be on the ground and should not fall into the pit.  

This does not mean that you should be on the ground and should not fly to the sky.

  This is not with reference to the positive deviation.  Therefore, the production of a son is appreciated with reference to a debatcherous life.  But it should not be appreciated with reference to the life of a monk.  Earning one rupee is appreciated with reference to the loss of money.  But it need be appreciated with reference to earning 100 rupees.  The concept of majority is capturing the minds of even spiritual people.  The spiritual preacher is encouraged to deliver the knowledge if a large gathering appears.  When Krishna preached Gita there were lakhs of soldiers there.

 But He preached Gita only to Arjuna because he was the only deserving devotee.  If any spiritual preacher is in the place of Krishna, he would have requested for a mike so that he can preach Gita to all the people in the war!!  Datta is surrounded only by very few deserving disciples like Pingala Naga, Alarka, Parasurama, Skanda etc., Sankara preached the commentary only to the four deserving disciples.   A Professor is surrounded by a very few research scholars engaged in discussions.    If you visit a schoolteacher he is surrounded by a hundred children who are not listening anything.  

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 06:46:01 AM
Devotion should come spontaneously but not by effort. Is it not contradicting?

The devotion on God should be spontaneous. Love is in the heart and it shall come by its own without any force or compulsion. Knowing more and more about God is the spiritual effort. The devotion will increase by such effort, but love on God can only be spontaneous. I will give an example, if a boy asks his girl friend to have more and more love on him, is it not foolishness? Love should be complete, not partial and then only it becomes spontaneous. The love should withstand in troubles also.

Even if the girl neglects him, still if he loves her, then it is the true spontaneous love. Likewise, in the case of God, even if one loves Him inspite of troubles or negligence from side of the God, then it is the real love, which is expressed spontaneously.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 06:47:20 AM
What is the state of liberation or salvation?


This state is completely filled with devotion to God and nothing else. That is the sate of liberation. State of liberation does not mean absence of every quality. It is not a qualityless state. It has the quality of devotion. A devotee becomes a libearated soul when he is relieved from the influence of all the bonds except the bond with the God. It is the state of liberation. Liberation means relieving yourself from all the bonds except the bond with God.


Liberation does not mean relieving yourself from all the bonds including the bond with God. Then, it is not liberation. In Adaviata philosophy, all the bonds are dissolved and only simple awareness is left over. There is no bond. It is not liberation. It is only just a state of meditation, where all the ideas disappear. Liberation means a state where the quality of devotion is higher and the bond with God is the strongest. Infact, the bond with God alone is leftover and all other bonds simply vanish. It is the liberation from all the bonds other than the bond with God and that is the liberation.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 06:48:49 AM
While propagating knowledge, some people do not understand it. What to do?
For the people who are at the basic level, the knowledge should be mixed with several defects. Wrong knowledge must be mixed then only the basic people will follow. Slowly as they climb, the wrong knowledge should be removed and the correct knowledge must be exposed. If you mix the wrong knowledge then only basic people are attracted. For example, if you say ‘do this prayer, your problem will be solved’ then people are attracted.

 For dealing with such masses, there are several gurus, who take the help of God and want to earn something by showing God’s power to solve their problems and such people are there several already. Though they have those defects, they have got one merit that they divert people to God and they are not atheists. You can treat it as some LKG class or elementary class. For such elementary classes, there is no need of effort of God to preach because several people are already generated naturally for peraching at that level.

 They want to lead people in wrong line and earn something. Though they are in wrong line, they have one merit and that is approaching God. By frequent approach to God, your love to God also will increase. As your problems are solved, you will get more and more acquaintance with God. Then you start thinking about God, analyze about God and finally knowledge about God.
Therefore, it is also a basic step and one should not condemn it.

For that, there is no need of effort of God because without His effort already the defective people and wrong gurus are several in the creation, spontaouesly produced for their livelilyhood and fame. God need not put any effort to generate gurus for masses. Gurus are spontaneously generated for masses. Only for higher level, God puts effort because for higher level people, the gurus are not spontaneously generated. For higher level, a real Guru is needed. Jesus is only one guru meant for the higher level.

But, if you take wrong gurus, there were several. All those priests, who condemned Jesus and crucified were of those type only. They also believed in God. They did not oppose God. You cannot condemn them completely, though they are fond of money and fame and they have all nonsense of business; in spite of all these negative points, there is one positive point and that is that they accepted God. Jesus need not put effort to create such priests because the nature itself has spontaneous arrangement to create such false gurus suitable to the lower level. God does not take any effort for that. Already natural set up is there.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 06:50:33 AM
‘God cannot help the undeserving’. Why it is so?


What is the meaning of help? Help means to liberate one from the sins. How will God liberate from sins? By transferring the sins on to Him by coming in Human form and suffer for that person. Now for such thing, the devotee must be a deserving devotee. Deserving means that he should not aspire for even that. He should not aspire for the transfer of his sins to God. In such case, God transfers the sins secretly without his knowledge because if he comes to know this he will deny it. That itself is the deservingness. If somebody serves God and wants that his sins should be transferred to God and he must get protection from God then he is not a deserving devotee.

Deserving in exact sense means that he who does not aspire any help from God. Such person is the really deserving person. He does not aspire and that itself brings the deservingness.

He serves without any aspiration of fruit in return from God. It is called as deserving. God certainly helps him. It means he transfers his sins on to Him and will relieve him from all the sins because he is the most deserving. This is the actual meaning of ‘deserving’. You should not aspire any help from God in return for your service because you have done the service by yourself not according to the instruction or expectation from God.

In that case, you are not going to expect any help from God and still you serve Him, then you become deserving and God helps you certainly. He is pleased. Jesus completed the mission of God by even sacrificing His life by undergoing the crucifixion. He did not expect anything from God. He did it for the sake of God to fulfil His mission. Therefore, God helped Him and was made to sit on the right hand side of God on the throne in Heaven. Deserving means one, who does not aspire any help of God in any way and at anytime.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 28, 2010, 06:55:59 AM
This would seem to be him.

http://younoodle.com/people/anil_antony

If you got your Master's from Stanford, didn't you learn about individual discussion? What's with all the copy-pasting?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 07:05:17 AM
This would seem to be him.

http://younoodle.com/people/anil_antony

If you got your Master's from Stanford, didn't you learn about individual discussion? What's with all the copy-pasting?
When Jesus was struggling upon the cross, the theif who was also on the cross recognised Jesus as God even though Jesus was crying for help. This shows that the thief is not an ordinary preson and has love to Jesus.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 07:05:37 AM
You should start a church. I'll come visit out of curiousity...

What you mean by that....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: PeterTheAleut on October 28, 2010, 08:24:45 AM
dattaswami,

You've started close to 20 threads within the past two days, all with such apparent copy-and-paste jobs from who knows where. Do you really want conversation and dialogue, or are you just using OC.net as your own personal blog?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Fabio Leite on October 28, 2010, 08:44:35 AM
He thinks we need illumination from his guru. A little spaming and the "burden" of being seen as unpolite is just the necessary sacrifice that a soul so compassionate as his has to go through to help those in darkness.

Arrogance and vanity, maybe lots of insecurity, the Alfred of hinduism. That's all.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Shanghaiski on October 28, 2010, 09:06:55 AM
To the OP:  Did anyone here ask you the questions you're answering?

Such questions can come in the mind of many devotees also.

Devotees of what or whom?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Shanghaiski on October 28, 2010, 09:08:45 AM
This guru seems to have a lot of trolls following him.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Fabio Leite on October 28, 2010, 09:20:04 AM
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_tJu8uUKa6-A/SkMfOOMjWwI/AAAAAAAAAPU/46gQAAQNQr0/s288/Melis+Ceremony059_edited.JPG)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: peccatorum on October 28, 2010, 09:28:10 AM
I think it is valid philosophically. We just have to ask properly: why is Karma philosophy innapropriate to Christianity? Why we do not believe in it?
Actually the answer is very simple: Since Jesus come to rescue our sins, our sins have no poweer over us, since we repenth. So we do not have to suffer to evolve.
Ad Majorem Gloriam Dei.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: NorthernPines on October 28, 2010, 10:13:46 AM
But dude, you are STILL cutting and pasting! Not to mention flooding this forum with thread after thread, what is your intention, to preach about yourself? And how your opinions are the only viable ones? This is not dialogue, it's a politicians discourse!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: NorthernPines on October 28, 2010, 10:26:35 AM

Dattaswami,

With but one exception that I've seen, every single one of your posts over the last 24 hours are verifiable copy, cut and paste jobs. I ask, in accordance with our forum rules, that you provide links and references for ALL of your copy and paste job postings. I will give you 24 hours to comply with this request. (though if you can do so faster, that would be appreciated) A Failure to provide references and links for where you are getting these copy and pasted posts will warrant further disciplinary action. Also please be aware, any future copy and pasted posts you make must also contain a link and reference for where it is you are getting them. If you haven't done so as of yet, please familiarized yourself with the forum rules and guidelines before flooding the boards with anymore posts.

Consider this an official warning but for the moment it is just that, a warning. If you disagree with warning you may appeal to Fr. George.

Northern Pines, Religious Topics Forum Moderator

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 12:13:21 PM
dattaswami,

You've started close to 20 threads within the past two days, all with such apparent copy-and-paste jobs from who knows where. Do you really want conversation and dialogue, or are you just using OC.net as your own personal blog?

I really want a good discussion to takes place..
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Shanghaiski on October 28, 2010, 12:59:42 PM
Discussion requires contest. We need to know the exact sources of the tripe you're posting so often.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on October 28, 2010, 01:14:06 PM
You should start a church. I'll come visit out of curiousity...

What you mean by that....

I'll come to your church and start reading long essays out of a book. And then when people ask me questions, I'll answer with more essays.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 28, 2010, 01:43:46 PM
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_tJu8uUKa6-A/SkMfOOMjWwI/AAAAAAAAAPU/46gQAAQNQr0/s288/Melis+Ceremony059_edited.JPG)

What does a sci-fi/horror convention have to do with the OP?









 ;)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 28, 2010, 01:46:01 PM
This would seem to be him.

http://younoodle.com/people/anil_antony

If you got your Master's from Stanford, didn't you learn about individual discussion? What's with all the copy-pasting?
When Jesus was struggling upon the cross, the theif who was also on the cross recognised Jesus as God even though Jesus was crying for help. This shows that the thief is not an ordinary preson and has love to Jesus.

Jesus never cried for help. Where are you getting this?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: synLeszka on October 28, 2010, 02:03:58 PM
This would seem to be him.

http://younoodle.com/people/anil_antony

If you got your Master's from Stanford, didn't you learn about individual discussion? What's with all the copy-pasting?
When Jesus was struggling upon the cross, the theif who was also on the cross recognised Jesus as God even though Jesus was crying for help. This shows that the thief is not an ordinary preson and has love to Jesus.
Jesus never cried for help. Where are you getting this?

Matthew 27:46 .
[46] And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying: Eli, Eli, lamma sabacthani? that is, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Fabio Leite on October 28, 2010, 02:12:41 PM
He was not crying for help. He was quotingPsalm 22, one of the most clear prophecies of the Old Testament about Christ:

Quote
PSALM 22

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? {why art thou so} far from helping me, {and from} the words of my roaring? {Aijeleth...: or, the hind of the morning} {helping...: Heb. my salvation}

O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent. {am...: Heb. there is no silence to me}

But thou {art} holy, {O thou} that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

But I {am} a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, {saying}, {shoot...: Heb. open}

He trusted on the LORD {that} he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. {He trusted...: Heb. He rolled himself on} {seeing...: or, if he delight in}

But thou {art} he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope {when I was} upon my mother's breasts. {didst...: or, kept me in safety}

I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou {art} my God from my mother's belly.

Be not far from me; for trouble {is} near; for {there is} none to help. {none...: Heb. not a helper}

Many bulls have compassed me: strong {bulls} of Bashan have beset me round.

They gaped upon me {with} their mouths, {as} a ravening and a roaring lion. {gaped...: Heb. opened their mouths against me}

I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. {out of...: or, sundered}

My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

I may tell all my bones: they look {and} stare upon me.

They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.


But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog. {my darling: Heb. my only one} {power: Heb. hand}

Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

My praise {shall be} of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

For the kingdom {is} the LORD'S: and he {is} the governor among the nations.

All {they that be} fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done {this}.


So not only, He was not crying out for help but was teaching all those who were around Who He truly is.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Shanghaiski on October 28, 2010, 04:09:05 PM
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_tJu8uUKa6-A/SkMfOOMjWwI/AAAAAAAAAPU/46gQAAQNQr0/s288/Melis+Ceremony059_edited.JPG)

What does a sci-fi/horror convention have to do with the OP?







 ;)


Well, the OP and the other threads of the same poster are full of dogmatic horrors and theological science fiction.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 09:36:38 PM
You should start a church. I'll come visit out of curiousity...

What you mean by that....

I'll come to your church and start reading long essays out of a book. And then when people ask me questions, I'll answer with more essays.

If you read bible then you can see that Jesus was not sitting at Home and enjoying. He was traveling all over the place and was preaching the knoweldge of God. Poeple were sitting around HIm and was discussing asking questions and Jesus clarifiying with the knoweldge. When thus immersed in such discussion of knoweldge or Satsanga, one time He not even bothered when His mother St. Mary came to look for Him.

Thus when God comes in human form He preaches the knoweldge is breadth and depth so that the doubts are clarified in a most wonderful manner.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 09:38:13 PM
This would seem to be him.

http://younoodle.com/people/anil_antony

If you got your Master's from Stanford, didn't you learn about individual discussion? What's with all the copy-pasting?
When Jesus was struggling upon the cross, the theif who was also on the cross recognised Jesus as God even though Jesus was crying for help. This shows that the thief is not an ordinary preson and has love to Jesus.

Jesus never cried for help. Where are you getting this?

Jesus cried on the cross, and told Why Father Why are you left Me alone...

The essence of the post is that even when Jesus was struggling on the cross, even after seeing such state of Jesus, that theif believed Him as God.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 09:41:25 PM
Discussion requires contest. We need to know the exact sources of the tripe you're posting so often.

I give discourses and the discurses are recoreded and typed.

Very few of them are given below.

You can visit my web site also
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace



April 2nd, 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/f5f2b69b-a39a-45b3-a819-9ecd4974d0e8/Discourse-on-2nd-April-2010
18 April 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/224bf4b6-f988-46f5-b5d6-c40e9d2809f6/Discourse-on-18-April-2010
March 7 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/26c14ce7-499e-481c-b2cd-3ddd24fa2019/March-7-2010
March 14 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8b295057-6af6-44d3-a364-ec855d0b21d5/March-14-2010
March 28 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/809191ca-a574-4a78-9b40-ac557be40015/March-28-2010
February 2 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/da6fdf46-9522-4ffa-9931-653b03700039/Febuary-2-2010
Feb 7 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/cb86203a-ac1b-4ed2-ba65-91607c889059/Feb-7-2010
Feb 27 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/7dc19aa6-d792-4cec-a691-c2a3d82fe04c/Feb-27-2010
Jan 23 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/5b53b50e-6a52-4924-9200-ffb4844d9a57/Jan-23-2010
Jan 26 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/fed9074f-fb6f-4048-8038-cf6ab15d08c4/Jan-26,-2010
25 April 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8e0be2d3-965b-4eb3-97fa-ac4cd385dabb/Discourse-on-25--April-2010
Shankara-Jayanthi-Message
http://www.esnips.com/doc/b5fd5007-a6a0-4500-a072-413599b02c52/Shankara-Jayanthi-Message
May-20-2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/5379b1e6-8861-421a-8971-e7610a787ef5/May-20-2010
July 4 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/017bd067-792f-4a5f-ba20-cbce63327496/4-July-2010
11 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/d0da717d-6467-4497-a300-3a969be3f860/11-July-2010
20 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/3db8f18c-c1e9-4b47-81f1-2832a3aeae32/20-July-2010

25 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/95fea621-58a6-40f2-86c5-90cf9d5c9ec9/25-July-2010-Divine_Discourse_By_Swami-GURUPURNIMA

http://www.esnips.com/doc/1907280b-54af-4654-a51c-50c1996896aa/25-July-2010-After-noon-message

25 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/95fea621-58a6-40f2-86c5-90cf9d5c9ec9/25-July-2010-Divine_Discourse_By_Swami-GURUPURNIMA
25 July 2010 After noon message
http://www.esnips.com/doc/1907280b-54af-4654-a51c-50c1996896aa/25-July-2010-After-noon-message
2 August 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/74faa0ab-97bc-4ca0-b431-576e86d7f8fd/August-2-2010
August 3, 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/567746ab-8e86-44ed-820c-fdf05b1eb7d2/August-3-2010
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 09:44:18 PM
http://www.esnips.com/web/DivineDiscoursesofSwami

http://www.esnips.com/web/KnowledgeaboutGodforall
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 09:46:24 PM
I think it is valid philosophically. We just have to ask properly: why is Karma philosophy innapropriate to Christianity? Why we do not believe in it?
Actually the answer is very simple: Since Jesus come to rescue our sins, our sins have no poweer over us, since we repenth. So we do not have to suffer to evolve.
Ad Majorem Gloriam Dei.

But lot of Jesus believers are suffering now also (no offense please). My point is that even after beleiving or accepting Jesus christ as saviour one should really stop doing sins and also should increase our love to Him and work for Him without expecting anything in return...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 09:47:25 PM
I think it is valid philosophically.

Cycle of Deeds

The human being is entangled in the cycle of deeds called as karma chakra. The thought in the mind is the seed, which grows and generates action. The action certainly gives its result. Even if you escape the result of your action in this world you cannot escape from it in the upper world. In fact the result in the upper world is very severe due to the compounded interest due to the delay in getting the result. Therefore blessed are those who are punished in this world itself. Jesus says “It is better to punish yourself for your sin in this world itself than to fall into eternal hell”.

The punishment reduces the thought (which caused the deed) to the state of a tiny seedling. However the punishment cannot destroy the thought completely. The thought exists in a very minute called the state of subconsciousness. Even you are not aware of your subconscious thought. When the soul comes from hell to the earth and enters a new human body, the child contains all the qualities or thoughts of previous births, hidden in the subconscious state. Therefore the child is unaware of anything and appears to be the most innocent and sacred.

 In the child the thoughts are like seeds that have not germinated. Whatever may be the external atmosphere in which the child grows; those strong thoughts will certainly germinate and grow up to be tender plants if not strong trees. But if the external atmosphere is favorable, the strong thoughts become trees, and weak thoughts will become plants. These germinated thoughts will result in corresponding actions. The actions will give their own fruits whether here or there. 

The fruits are the punishments, which will again reduce the thoughts to seeds. This is the cycle of the deeds. When it is said that you are enjoying the fruit of the action of your previous birth, it has to be understood in the context of this cycle. The action of your previous birth was punished in hell and has reduced your thought to the form of a seed. In this birth the seed grows and results in its corresponding action. Such action can give you its result in this world if you are captured here itself. The judicial system in this world also functions under the direction of the Lord only. If you have escaped the judicial system in this world, it too is by the will of Lord alone. The Lord might have judged your case and might have given you a chance of transformation.

 Sometimes you are punished wrongly in a case. Do not abuse the court or God. Perhaps you are punished for some other sin. Do not think that you have escaped a punishment that you deserve just because the court finds you ‘not guilty’. Perhaps God is directing you for a severe punishment in hell, which cannot be provided by the court here. Therefore do not think that you have fooled the court or that the deity of justice is blind with a cloth tied on her eyes. Even this court is functioning according to the will of the Lord because the Lord governs everybody and everything in this world. Therefore do not blame God or do not say that God does not exist if some criminal escapes punishment of human courts.

 Destroying the Seed

Now the main point is how to escape from this cycle? You cannot escape from this cycle by preventing the deed or punishment. If you are tied with a rope, you will not do the deed as long as you are tied. You will do the deed as soon as you are released from the rope. You may escape the result of your deed here by someone’s recommendations, but you cannot escape from it in hell. The only way to stop this cycle is to destroy the thought which is the initiating seed of this cycle. How to destroy it?

The seed is a thought which is a living property (sentient property) or a property of life. If it were an inert property like light or heat, it could be prevented by physical methods. Only knowledge, which is another living property, can destroy this thought. Only a diamond can cut another diamond. The wrong knowledge, which generates this sin, is dangerous. Ignorance, which is zero, is better than wrong knowledge, which is minus (negative). Therefore only righteous knowledge can destroy wrong thoughts. You can differentiate the right knowledge from the wrong knowledge through careful, patient analysis and discrimination. The knowledge of God alone can create devotion in your mind and develop it. Thus by knowledge alone can you get rid of this cycle and attain and please God. Shankara says “Jnanat eva tu kaivalyam”, which means that knowledge alone can give salvation. Jesus preached the same spiritual knowledge throughout His life.


www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on October 28, 2010, 09:47:52 PM
You should start a church. I'll come visit out of curiousity...

What you mean by that....

I'll come to your church and start reading long essays out of a book. And then when people ask me questions, I'll answer with more essays.

If you read bible then you can see that Jesus was not sitting at Home and enjoying. He was traveling all over the place and was preaching the knoweldge of God. Poeple were sitting around HIm and was discussing asking questions and Jesus clarifiying with the knoweldge.

As opposed to cutting and pasting text from somewhere else?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 09:48:57 PM
Levels in Spirituality

Miracles are just fundamental level of elementary schools, which are widely spread everywhere, by the wish of God. Even evil people can do these miracles by black magic. The idea behind such wide covering range of miracles is that these miracles are useful in converting atheists into theists. For such elementary work, human incarnations or professors are not necessary.

The next level is Jnana Yoga, which is the level of high schools. The high schools are lesser in number than elementary schools because only some converted theists start the enquiry about the subject (Jnana Yoga) of the unimaginable God, since His existence was indirectly proved through the unimaginable miracles and He is the source of the unimaginable power behind the miracles.

The next higher level is formation of theoretical love (Bhakti Yoga) or devotion on the Lord since a few of the scholars of God get this and this level is the level of colleges.

The ultimate highest level is practical devotion (Karma Yoga) or service to God, which is the level of University and is very rare since a few of devotees only can become servants of God through practical sacrifice of work and fruit of work. The scientific analysis of divine knowledge (Jnana Yoga) is pervading all the four levels as the basic torchlight. In the first level, the existence of God is accepted. In the second level, the existence of unimaginable God is accepted.

 In the third level, the representatives of God like statues in human form are worshipped by words and mind to get rid of ego and jealousy towards human form. In the fourth level, the decision of the final conclusion of the intellectual analysis results in detecting the contemporary human incarnation and involve in a practical service in His mission.



www.universal-spirituality.org
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 28, 2010, 09:50:41 PM
It's as if he's posting his entire website. He's just throwing reams of stuff at us. There's very little discussion going on. 27 posts a day, of this?

 ::)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Papist on October 28, 2010, 09:54:23 PM
Is this like levels in dungeons and dragons? Does one need to earn experience points? Are there prestige classes?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on October 28, 2010, 09:58:21 PM
It's as if he's posting his entire website. He's just throwing reams of stuff at us. There's very little discussion going on. 27 posts a day, of this?
 ::)

27!? He was at 31 posts a day when I looked at his profile yesterday! He better start posting more, he's falling behind!  ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 09:58:47 PM
Is this like levels in dungeons and dragons? Does one need to earn experience points? Are there prestige classes?

Here level means ones real imporant and value which is given to God. Some people approach GOd only for selfishness and to get some benefit, certainly they are at the lowest level, there are people who really love GOd and work for Him without any expecation, ceratiainly in the eyes of God they are very dear to Him....Certainly there is difference in the approach of people to God......

Jesus was dearest to God since He sacrificed His own life for God's mission, and ordinary person cannot be compared to Jesus...........

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 09:59:15 PM


There are two paths of love on God. The path of limited real love on wife and the path of unlimited real love on children. The first path is aspiring boons from God for selfish happiness, which involves mostly theoretical and little practical devotion.

In this first path, one loves his wife for selfish happiness only and most of his love is emotional (Theoretical) with little practical sacrifice. The second path is selfless love without any aspiration of fruit in return and consists of mostly practical and little theoretical devotion. In this second path, one loves his child without any selfishness and a total sacrifice of work and fruit of work. Hanuman and Gopikas are the best Gold Medal-students of the University.

Once you are fixed in the divine service of God, there is no need of miracles, knowledge and theoretical devotion. The knowledge is the qualifying degree and the theoretical devotion is official appointment order. The practical devotion is the work done in the month and salary (fruit) is given to the monthly work only. Only work (Karma) can yield the fruit.




www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 10:00:57 PM
He thinks we need illumination from his guru. A little spaming and the "burden" of being seen as unpolite is just the necessary sacrifice that a soul so compassionate as his has to go through to help those in darkness.

Arrogance and vanity, maybe lots of insecurity, the Alfred of hinduism. That's all.

No thing like that.

God speaks through me the divine knowledge it is not me who gave the knoweldge it is the GOd who present in me gives it..
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 10:02:29 PM
You should start a church. I'll come visit out of curiousity...

What you mean by that....

I'll come to your church and start reading long essays out of a book. And then when people ask me questions, I'll answer with more essays.

If you read bible then you can see that Jesus was not sitting at Home and enjoying. He was traveling all over the place and was preaching the knoweldge of God. Poeple were sitting around HIm and was discussing asking questions and Jesus clarifiying with the knoweldge.

As opposed to cutting and pasting text from somewhere else?

God comes to this world for propagating the divine knowledge which is a serious job to be carried out efficiently...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 10:03:09 PM
To the OP:  Did anyone here ask you the questions you're answering?

Such questions can come in the mind of many devotees also.

Devotees of what or whom?

Devotees of GOD....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 10:03:46 PM

Dattaswami,

With but one exception that I've seen, every single one of your posts over the last 24 hours are verifiable copy, cut and paste jobs. I ask, in accordance with our forum rules, that you provide links and references for ALL of your copy and paste job postings. I will give you 24 hours to comply with this request. (though if you can do so faster, that would be appreciated) A Failure to provide references and links for where you are getting these copy and pasted posts will warrant further disciplinary action. Also please be aware, any future copy and pasted posts you make must also contain a link and reference for where it is you are getting them. If you haven't done so as of yet, please familiarized yourself with the forum rules and guidelines before flooding the boards with anymore posts.

Consider this an official warning but for the moment it is just that, a warning. If you disagree with warning you may appeal to Fr. George.

Northern Pines, Religious Topics Forum Moderator



Agreed......
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 28, 2010, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: dattaswami
No thing like that.

God speaks through me the divine knowledge it is not me who gave the knoweldge it is the GOd who present in me gives it..


 :o

Wow. Just wow.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 10:17:17 PM
Prayer of ordinary person Vs a high level devotee

Ganapati means the Lord of a group of close devotees, who have reached the climax of devotion. The word Gana does not mean the entire group of normal souls. Gana means a group of souls, who have become very close to the Lord by their unimaginable devotion. The Lord is certainly the master of all the souls, but the Gana is specially attached group of souls. The king is attached to the people in his kingdom, but he is specially attached to his family members.  There is difference in the intensity of the attachments. When the Lord incarnates on this earth in human form, these souls from the Gana also accompany the Lord. These liberated souls have no bondage of the cycle of deeds and their lives are totally planned by the Lord.

 For example, if you take the life of Jesus, His crucifixion was not due to His past deeds and it was purely based on the will of the Lord, who planned such incident in His life for the sake of uplift of the society. Therefore, Jesus prayed “Let Thy will be done”. Here the crucifixion is according to the will of the Lord. The same statement cannot be uttered by an ordinary human being in such situation.  The crucifixion of other two persons in the same time was based on their sins. Therefore, they cannot utter this statement because their lives were based on their deeds and not on the plan of God’s will. In the case of these two ordinary human beings, the proper statement should be “Let the Law take its own course”.  Without this analysis, ordinary human beings also utter the former statement due to ignorance.

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

(http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/Themes/Pascha2010/images/warnwarn.gif) This forum does not exist to be your own personal blog. Starting new threads as rapidly as you do is very disruptive to this forum and needs to stop now. (Not to mention that point NorthernPines brought up about how you need to give us sources to every one of these copy-and-paste jobs you posted over the last three days.) If it doesn't stop, you will be placed on post moderation for attempting to commandeer the forum. On post moderation, you will still be able to post, but every one of your posts must be approved by a moderator before it will appear on the forum. Stop your rapid-fire starting of new threads now, and you can avoid this action.

If you think this action wrong, feel free to appeal it via private message to Fr. George (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=755).

- PeterTheAleut
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on October 28, 2010, 10:22:03 PM
You should start a church. I'll come visit out of curiousity...

What you mean by that....

I'll come to your church and start reading long essays out of a book. And then when people ask me questions, I'll answer with more essays.

If you read bible then you can see that Jesus was not sitting at Home and enjoying. He was traveling all over the place and was preaching the knoweldge of God. Poeple were sitting around HIm and was discussing asking questions and Jesus clarifiying with the knoweldge.

As opposed to cutting and pasting text from somewhere else?

God comes to this world for propagating the divine knowledge which is a serious job to be carried out efficiently...

No, God's word is nourishing and personal. You are selling spiritual fast food.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 28, 2010, 10:25:06 PM
Years ago, there was a baseball game with the Brewers and I forget who else, that went on for over 22 innings or so, because the pitchers kept throwing the ball into the stands- things like that.

 :-\

This reminds me a little of that.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 10:26:04 PM



No, God's word is nourishing and personal. You are selling spiritual fast food.

The knowledge spoken by the contemporary human incarnation in presence of your eyes, heard by your ears directly is divine knowledge. The main divinity here is that all your doubts are clarified directly and this is not possible when you read any scripture.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 28, 2010, 10:29:22 PM
By praying to remove difficulties you are disturbing God

Generally, people pray God to remove their difficulties. They do not know that by doing so, God has to interfere in His own cycle of administration. By doing so, God has to insult the deity of justice and this deity was appointed by God Himself to run the administration without any partiality. Having ordered so, God Himself will not show partiality on anybody under any circumstances. God will not contradict His own policy. If any administrator in this world contradicts his own policy, he is certified as a mad fellow certainly. Of course, if a particular soul is in the climax of devotion to God, passing all the acid tests of Datta, God will over rule His own policy as in the case of Markandeya. In fact, God even killed the deity of justice (Yamadharma Raja) in such special case.

Without analyzing its own status in the devotion, every soul prays God to violate the rule of justice and insult the deity of justice. Even though such insult is not mentioned directly in the prayer, the prayer means the same indirectly. Lord Krishna gave life to the dead son of Sandeepani and this was extreme case since the dead body was also destroyed long back.

 Sandeepani was such a deserving person. Quoting this, Subhadra, the sister of Lord Krishna, prayed the Lord to give life to her dead son and the dead body was immediately available. But Lord did not give life to the dead body. Subhadra did not analyze the difference in the deservingness between her and Sandeepani. She thought that she deserves more than even Sandeepani, since she was the sister of Lord.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on October 28, 2010, 10:31:21 PM
(http://knowyourmeme.com/i/3309/original/i-dunno-lol.jpg?1244616130)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 28, 2010, 10:39:03 PM
 :D If my dog weren't asleep, I think she'd say that too.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: tuesdayschild on October 28, 2010, 10:41:51 PM
Have you met the seasoned apologist, Alfred Persson (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=tags;id=5784)? I believe the two of you would get along famously.

(http://www.puritanboard.com/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Alfred Persson on October 28, 2010, 10:45:14 PM
By praying to remove difficulties you are disturbing God

Generally, people pray God to remove their difficulties. They do not know that by doing so, God has to interfere in His own cycle of administration. By doing so, God has to insult the deity of justice and this deity was appointed by God Himself to run the administration without any partiality. Having ordered so, God Himself will not show partiality on anybody under any circumstances. God will not contradict His own policy. If any administrator in this world contradicts his own policy, he is certified as a mad fellow certainly. Of course, if a particular soul is in the climax of devotion to God, passing all the acid tests of Datta, God will over rule His own policy as in the case of Markandeya. In fact, God even killed the deity of justice (Yamadharma Raja) in such special case.

Without analyzing its own status in the devotion, every soul prays God to violate the rule of justice and insult the deity of justice. Even though such insult is not mentioned directly in the prayer, the prayer means the same indirectly. Lord Krishna gave life to the dead son of Sandeepani and this was extreme case since the dead body was also destroyed long back.

 Sandeepani was such a deserving person. Quoting this, Subhadra, the sister of Lord Krishna, prayed the Lord to give life to her dead son and the dead body was immediately available. But Lord did not give life to the dead body. Subhadra did not analyze the difference in the deservingness between her and Sandeepani. She thought that she deserves more than even Sandeepani, since she was the sister of Lord.


Did a butterfly kick you in the head, cause you to lose your mind?

No doubt in some circles, such incoherent babble is considered deep, to me, it only proves one will hear oceans, standing near you.


Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Quinault on October 28, 2010, 10:45:24 PM
Wow, just....wow. The "deity of justice?"
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 28, 2010, 10:45:52 PM
Did you have a question?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Luke on October 28, 2010, 10:48:45 PM
(http://www.performanceboats.com/html/youBoat/data/606/Troll_spray.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 28, 2010, 10:48:58 PM
Alfred, is that you? :D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Alfred Persson on October 28, 2010, 10:49:26 PM
Wow, just....wow. The "deity of justice?"

Nothing in that babble makes sense.

I bet he knows how to pick out shopping carts whose wheels don't wobble, even when overflowing with his belongings.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on October 28, 2010, 10:50:35 PM
Dear Dattaswami,

Please stop your "spiritual" prosyletizing on this forum. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. (St. John 14:6) Christ is not a way. He is not a divine manifestation. He is not an enlightened guru or god. He is not merely one prophet amongst many others. Jesus Christ is Lord the Universe, the Second Person of the triune Godhead- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One God!

You are disrespecting this forum with your unOrthodox views. Perhaps you are sincere, and I will assume that you are. But if you continue these types of posts, then you are violating the spiritual welfare and Christian intentions of this website. If indeed you mean well, then you will promote your heterodox ideas on your own website, not here.

Thank you and peace to you.


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 28, 2010, 10:51:06 PM
LOL - glad you showed up, Alfred, I was beginning to think that was you! :D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 28, 2010, 10:51:56 PM
On the contrary- Jesus is proof that God loves to help the undeserving.  :)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on October 28, 2010, 10:54:09 PM
dattaswami,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here.  
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Alfred Persson on October 28, 2010, 10:55:07 PM
LOL - glad you showed up, Alfred, I was beginning to think that was you! :D

Is it fair the homeless can pick out shopping carts whose wheels don't wobble, every time, and I can't find one when I grocery shop?

Is that fair?

I believe the post is a prank, incoherent on purpose.

He is making fun of us...

People who do that, can also look through a key hole with both eyes, their brains are THAT big.

If wrong, I apologize...but its still incoherent, there is no addressing it.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 28, 2010, 10:58:58 PM
Mr. Antony was (and perhaps still is) a Master's student, and an entrepreneur. I wonder why he doesn't want to take more time for direct engagement in real discussion. The way he's using now certainly isn't of any effect. He could just as well post a PDF of a book.

 ???
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 28, 2010, 11:21:28 PM
By praying to remove difficulties you are disturbing God

Generally, people pray God to remove their difficulties. They do not know that by doing so, God has to interfere in His own cycle of administration. By doing so, God has to insult the deity of justice and this deity was appointed by God Himself to run the administration without any partiality. Having ordered so, God Himself will not show partiality on anybody under any circumstances. God will not contradict His own policy. If any administrator in this world contradicts his own policy, he is certified as a mad fellow certainly. Of course, if a particular soul is in the climax of devotion to God, passing all the acid tests of Datta, God will over rule His own policy as in the case of Markandeya. In fact, God even killed the deity of justice (Yamadharma Raja) in such special case.

Without analyzing its own status in the devotion, every soul prays God to violate the rule of justice and insult the deity of justice. Even though such insult is not mentioned directly in the prayer, the prayer means the same indirectly. Lord Krishna gave life to the dead son of Sandeepani and this was extreme case since the dead body was also destroyed long back.

 Sandeepani was such a deserving person. Quoting this, Subhadra, the sister of Lord Krishna, prayed the Lord to give life to her dead son and the dead body was immediately available. But Lord did not give life to the dead body. Subhadra did not analyze the difference in the deservingness between her and Sandeepani. She thought that she deserves more than even Sandeepani, since she was the sister of Lord.


We have no Lord but Jesus Christ. There is no God but the Holy Trinity.

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/crazyjetty/SPAM/spam20boy.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 12:26:58 AM
Mr. Antony was (and perhaps still is) a Master's student, and an entrepreneur. I wonder why he doesn't want to take more time for direct engagement in real discussion. The way he's using now certainly isn't of any effect. He could just as well post a PDF of a book.

 ???

But so far you have not commented on the content or theme of the post.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 12:27:37 AM
Did you have a question?
I did not understand this....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 29, 2010, 12:31:35 AM
The point is you're not asking us anything, just throwing a lot of words at us. 

Ask a question if you want a discussion.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 29, 2010, 12:36:58 AM
You don't think it's possible for a husband to love his wife unselfishly?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Irish Hermit on October 29, 2010, 12:39:25 AM

The crucifixion of other two persons in the same time was based on their sins. Therefore, they cannot utter this statement because their lives were based on their deeds and not on the plan of God’s will. In the case of these two ordinary human beings, the proper statement should be “Let the Law take its own course”. 


Dear Brothers and Sisters, do not be misled by the rather superficial teachings of this "Swami."  His thoughts are far from those of Jesus Christ whom we worship as God.  It is to Him and His enlightened Saints that we look for teaching and guidance and not to a 21 year old American at Stamford University majoring in entrepreneurship!! 

The compassion of God is infinite and Saint Isaac the Syrian goes so far as to say that it outweighs His justice and the Law.


"Do not call God just, for His justice is not manifest in the
things concerning you. And if David calls Him just and upright, His
Son revealed to us that He is good and kind. 'He is good', He
says 'to the evil and to the impious.' How can you call God just
when you come across the Scriptural passage on the wage given to the
workers? How can a man call God just when he comes across the
passage on the prodigal son who wasted his wealth with riotous
living, how for the compunction alone which he showed, the father
ran and fell upon his neck and gave him authority over all his
wealth? Where, then, is God's justice, for while we are sinners
Christ died for us!"

and

"Among all God's actions there is none that is not entirely a
matter of mercy, love and compassion: this constitutes the beginning
and end of His dealings with us. ...God's mercifulness is far more
extensive than we can conceive."

and

"Just as a grain of sand will not balance in the scales against a
great weight of gold, such too is the case with God's justice when
it is weighed against His compassion. When compared with God's mind,
the sins of all flesh are like a grain of sand thrown in the sea.
Just as an abundantly flowing fountain is not blocked by a handful
of dust, so the Maker's mercy is not overcome by the wickedness of
those whom He has created."

and

"Mercy and just judgment existing in a single soul
is like a man worshipping God and idols in the same house.
Mercy is opposed to just judgment.
Just judgment is the equality of the balanced scale.
For it gives to each as is meet,
and does not incline to one side
or show partiality in recompense.
But mercy is pity aroused by Grace
and inclines a man compassionately to all;
and just as it does not requite the man who deserves harsh treatment,
it fills him to overflowing,
the man who deserves what is good.
And if mercy is on the side of righteousness,
then just judgment inclines towards evil;
and just as grass and fire cannot abide in the same house,
so neither do just judgment and mercy abide in the same soul.
Just as a grain of sand cannot counterbalance a large quantity of gold,
so God's necessary justice cannot, in like manner,
counterbalance His mercy."

- St. Isaac the Syrian

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 12:39:33 AM
On the contrary- Jesus is proof that God loves to help the undeserving.  :)

It is true only when you love Jesus PRACTICALLY and do not expect anything from Him. Your statement is valid only for those poor fishermen who sacrificed every thing for Jesus and worked for His mission, for such people it is valid.

God will never give anything free to any body. Proper deservigness is needed. Jesus Himself has quoted this.

Deservingness is essential otherwise God will be balmed as partial. God is impartial. Jesus did not give salvation to the other theif, He gave salvation to only a their who recgonised Him as God. This is by the deservingness of that theif that Jesus gave salvation, other thief was not deserving.

Similarly when Jesus was carrying cross, many people weeped, He told them, do not weep for Me you weep for yourself, beacuse very shortly all of you will enter into suffering days....


Also, Jesus only went to that particular lady who came for taking water from the well. Jesus never went to all the ladies. Because she was deserving by her sacrifice and love to Jesus.

There were many blind people in Israel when Jesus came but He gave vision to that particular blind person only, not to all the blind people existed in Israel, because that blind person deserved it.

Jesus selected only 12 people as His disciple when millions of people were there in Israel. Becuase only 12 people only could conquere jealosy and egoism and could recognise Jesus as God, and hence they are deserving Hence He selected them only. They were ready to work and sacrifice everything for Him.

When Jeusus came He gave life to Lazar, there were lot of people who died during Jesus time, Jesus did not give life to all these people, He gave life to Lazar, since he deserved that due to his devotion to Jesus.

Jesus preached in Parables only, because, only then interested people will stay back and ask the hidden meaning of parables. But He explained everything to His disciples since His disciples left everything for Him. Hence they deserved the divine knoweldge and hence Jesus explained everything to them.

Jeus told the parable of 10 virgins which shows the improatant of altertness to recogninse God when He comes to this world in human form.

All along the bible Jesus mentions about the importance of spiritual effort. NOw i do not understand why you are saying that nothing is needed you are saved etc!! Jesus never told that salvation is free gift.


Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on October 29, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
God will never give anything free to any body. Proper deservigness is needed. Jesus Himself has quoted this.

"...For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."


Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 12:45:29 AM
God will never give anything free to any body. Proper deservigness is needed. Jesus Himself has quoted this.

"...For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."




Have you completely read my reply?


Without eligibility, God will never give anything to anybody at any time. But the devotee must take the first step towards God. The necessity is for the devotee. The Veda says ‘Aptakamsya’ i.e., ‘God has attained everything and there is nothing which He has to achieve’. You have come near the sea with a pot. You should take a step into the water and make an effort to fill your pot.

Then the sea moves in to fill the pot with its water. Therefore human effort is necessary.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 12:48:48 AM

The crucifixion of other two persons in the same time ..............soul.
Just as a grain of sand cannot counterbalance a large quantity of gold,
so God's necessary justice cannot, in like manner,
counterbalance His mercy."

- St. Isaac the Syrian



I am not misleading any one of you here. That is not at all my aim! My aim is to stress the importance of practical service to God without any expecation.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 12:49:55 AM
You don't think it's possible for a husband to love his wife unselfishly?

There may be exceptional cases, but our love to our children is the highest, since they are born of our blood and we are attached to them more.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 12:53:17 AM
dattaswami,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here.  

Thanks.....

There is only one God, He comes to this world in human form time to time to preach divine knowledge. God has to be here in humna form then only we can directly clarify our doubts from Him, by interaction and discussion. For this purpose God comes to this world in human form. The divine knoweldge preached by such God in human form removes all our doubts becuase God alone can preach about Himself. He is the author of all the scriptures of the world.
He is the source of the scriptures. Hence He alone can preach about HImself.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 12:56:31 AM


Dear Brothers and Sisters, do not be misled by the rather superficial teachings of this "Swami."  His thoughts are far from those of Jesus Christ whom we worship as God.  It is to Him and His enlightened Saints that we look for teaching and guidance and not to a 21 year old American at Stamford University majoring in entrepreneurship!! 


I am not the person you mention!



Any way. If i mislead you then God will certainly punish me. He will punish me without all of your recommendation or prayer. You need not pray to God for my punishment. In His kingdom, nothing wrong will happen. He will take care of every issue. If something injustice happen it will be a black scar on Him. Thus God is very much alert that anybody else and am I a fool to get such severe punishment for misleading any of you?!!!!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Irish Hermit on October 29, 2010, 12:57:15 AM


There are two paths of love on God. The path of limited real love on wife and the path of unlimited real love on children.


How sad, Swami, that you find yourself on neither path of love, with no wife and no children.  Your jargon is quite glib and your delivery is very smooth and it will convince your devotees but a lot of what you write is nonsensical.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on October 29, 2010, 01:05:15 AM
Dattaswami- I am curious how much time you have spent studying Orthodox Christianity and learning what the Orthodox Church teaches. So far you have given no indication that you know anything about Orthodoxy in particular nor that you are interested in learning anything. Why, therefore, should we be expected to engage with your numerous cut-and-paste essays?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 29, 2010, 01:06:37 AM
dattaswami,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here. 

Thanks.....

There is only one God, He comes to this world in human form time to time to preach divine knowledge. God has to be here in humna form then only we can directly clarify our doubts from Him, by interaction and discussion. For this purpose God comes to this world in human form. The divine knoweldge preached by such God in human form removes all our doubts becuase God alone can preach about Himself. He is the author of all the scriptures of the world.
He is the source of the scriptures. Hence He alone can preach about HImself.



There's the rub. We believe God was incarnate only once and for all, in Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Holy Trinity. 

Further, we have no lingering doubts or questions because he sent us the Holy Spirit, the third Person of the Holy Trinity. He lives in the Church, which is mystically Christ's Body. The Spirit leads the Church into all truth.

And the next time we see the Incarnate Word of God and God, Jesus Christ, physically present on earth will be the second and final time: the dread judgment. 
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on October 29, 2010, 01:15:50 AM
From your website:

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

 Since I'm not a devotee of yours, I reckon I'll call you Hugh Morris.  ;)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on October 29, 2010, 01:20:37 AM


Quote
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on October 29, 2010, 01:24:07 AM
dattaswami, Hugh Morris,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here.  

 Since I'm not your devotee, I needed to go back and edit this.

Taken from your website:

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 29, 2010, 01:55:34 AM
dattaswami,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here.  

After 20+ threads, I'd say his intentions are becoming rather clear. To proselytize us...although to what though i'm not so sure!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 29, 2010, 01:56:51 AM

He is making fun of us...


Who is 'us' in this context? Do you have a mouse in your pocket? ;)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on October 29, 2010, 03:22:42 AM
Biro and Iconodule are correct!

Do not engage this individual any further. I truly believe his ideas are demonic, whether or not he realizes it. A demon may be using him to sow confusion and error. The more we engage him, the more we give room to satan.

Christ came to save sinners, and no sinner is deserving of divine grace. That's why it's called GRACE!


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 29, 2010, 03:26:22 AM
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:pG7znMCe91RhOM:http://www.ipprospective.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/troll-web.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 04:24:04 AM
dattaswami,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here.  

After 20+ threads, I'd say his intentions are becoming rather clear. To proselytize us...although to what though i'm not so sure!

If I mislead you then God will severely punish me, why should i mislead you to get punshiment from God. So will not harm any body...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 04:41:09 AM
From your website:

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

 Since I'm not a devotee of yours, I reckon I'll call you Hugh Morris.  ;)

 Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….). This does not mean that God is the knowledge itself. It only means that the possessor of right and excellent knowledge is God and such knowledge is His correct identification mark since it is His inseparable characteristic. If some body wears a red shirt always, the red shirt becomes his identity mark and you can call him as the red shirt like calling “Oh! Red shirt! Come here”. Gita gives clarification on this point, which says that the possessor of knowledge is God (Jnaanitvaatmaiava……).  Since God enters the human being only, such identification is mentioned. The human being is always characterized by the knowledge. Knowledge is one sided characteristic of awareness. It means knowledge is always associated with awareness and awareness need not be associated always with knowledge.

An animal or bird has awareness but no knowledge. Therefore, you should not take awareness as the meaning of the words indicating knowledge in Veda like Jnanam and Prajnanam. This clarification is given in Gita, which says that God enters human body (Manusheem….). Hence, Gita always gives clarifications on Veda. Such correct clarification can be correctly clarified by the human incarnation only since the same God, who said Gita, can alone give the original sense of the text. The Author himself can alone give the correct sense of his own statement. Since, God is one and the same in all the human incarnations, any human incarnation can clarify the text said by any other human incarnation.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 05:15:32 AM
God will never give anything free to any body. Proper deservigness is needed. Jesus Himself has quoted this.

"...For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."




Yes He is impartial but He takes a special care of those who love Him...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 05:17:24 AM
Jesus & the lady who applied costly scent to Him
Once, a lady was worshipping Jesus by applying a costly scent to Him. A disciple of Jesus criticized this and stated that the cost of the scent would have been spent for feeding the beggars. Jesus condemned the disciple and accepted her service. The reason for such personal service is that she is in the path of Nivrutti. She desires only the Lord and is not interested in the social service. The followers of Nivrutti will even leave the justice for the sake of the Lord (Sarvadharman—Gita). Such souls reach the permanent divine abode of the Lord. One cannot compare Jesus with a rich man who is also enjoying a similar service. The rich man is not God and he has to please the Lord. The final goal is not his selfish pleasure. In the case of Jesus there is no other God whom he should please. The service done to Jesus protected that lady in this world as well as in the upper world. But the service done to the rich man cannot protect anybody.

Once a rich man approached Jesus and asked for his future duty in order to enter the Heaven. Jesus told him that he should give away all his money to the beggars. Jesus did not ask him to bring costly scent to be applied to Him. The rich man belongs to the level of Pravrutti and is interested in his personal upliftment and personal enjoyment in the heaven. He is not interested in Lord Jesus. Thus the Pravrutti and Nivrutti should be differentiated. The ignorant people who are unaware of this difference will mistake Jesus to be fond of the application of the scent by the tender hand of a beautiful lady.

The Lord is the fire of knowledge and any stick will be burnt to ashes. When the Lord comes in the human form, He plays with all the qualities existing in the universe. He created all the qualities only (Yechaiva Sattvikah—Gita) for His divine play meant for the entertainment. The Lord created even Satan. In a cinema the role of villain also exists and the actor of that role is also paid. Any quality that is used for the entertainment and pleasure of the Lord is good and sacred. Any quality that is turned towards selfish pleasure and these worldly bonds is bad and impure. The ultimate aim of this universe is only His entertainment. Even Satan is sacred since he is playing his role sincerely by testing the firm faith of the devotees.

You must hate his attraction for diverting you from the Lord but not the Satan. Jesus told that you should hate the sin but not the sinner. The Lord is beyond qualities because the qualities consist of the subtle body (Gunateetah—Gita). These qualities are tools of His divine play and He is not the subtle body. Therefore He is not the qualities and is untouched by them. A human being is the subtle body and is controlled by the qualities. He is a tool to the game played by the qualities (Nanyam Gunebhyah—Gita). The Lord uses the bad qualities as His mask so that the undeserving devotees do not approach Him for any favors. He is also using these bad qualities to test the firm faith of the sincere devotees. No human being can understand the Human incarnation. Every human being easily misunderstands the Lord in human form.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 05:56:29 AM


Quote
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)

To a deserving devotee, Jesus told He and His father are one and the same. When Jesus saw a devotee who was slightly affected by jealousy and egoism, Jesus came down by one step saying that He was the son of the God. The word son is indicating that He is different from the God but the same spirit is present in both like the same blood in the father and the son. This means that He is different and smaller than the God but at the same time has the same essence. It is like the relationship between the mighty ocean and the tiny water drop. The father is major and the son is minor component. They resemble qualitatively but differ quantitatively. This is the visishta advaita of Ramanuja.

 When Jesus met a devotee who is fully bacterialised by jealousy and egoism He told that He was the humble messenger of God. This is the Dvaita of Madhva. Therefore the human incarnation will declare its level based on the level of the receiver. Mohammad told that He is the messenger of the Lord. Thus there is a gradual degradation of spiritual obedience and the gradual growth of jealousy and egoism. Jesus stands as a transition bridge between the Advaita of Krishna and Dvaita of Mohammad.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on October 29, 2010, 05:59:46 AM
"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)

When I become a guru/master/whatever I'm going to insist that my devotees call me Buff Hardbody :P
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 06:14:45 AM
Essence Of Jesus Preaching --- Meaning Of Saving
Saving from the troubles and misery is the general sense of the word saving. In spiritual sense saving means cutting all the worldly bonds and establishing real bond with God, Who alone is the truth. God is truth. This means that God is infinite power. The creation is just His imagination and is almost not true. The imagining person is said to truly exist. The world, which is just His imagination and which is completely not nothing. The world is made of an iota of energy of God. God is like the infinite ocean of energy. Compared to God the world is almost nothing. Thus this entire creation is under the full control of God. Just like the person doing some imagination creates an imaginary world in him, God created this imaginary world in Him. The imagining person can fully control the world. He can transform any item into any other item. He can raise a dead body in His imaginary world. All the miracles of human incarnations can be explained only by this concept.

God who is present in the human incarnation does all these miracles only to establish this concept. If the world is equally true, then the world is equally powerful to God. In such case God cannot do whatever He likes. Since the world is least powerful and God is most powerful, God controls the entire world like a very strong person controlling very weak person. Thus the word truth indicates the omnipotent nature of God. When we say that this world is not true, it indicates the negligible power of the world. Suppose a small ant is on your shirt, will you say that yourself and the ant are present in the house? The ant is negligible and is treated as nothing. Therefore, a person who knows this concept surrenders to God and accepts Him as the saviour. In his eyes the entire world looks like an ant before God. You are a tiny particle in this ant-world. You can understand your position by putting a relative scale.

Assume that this ant is Infinite Ocean of energy. You are an iota of that ocean. This means your power is negligible before the power of this entire nature. The world is like the ocean and you are like a drop in it. God is like the ocean and the world a drop in God. You must understand this simile not in terms of volume but in terms of the intensity of the power. When we utter the word God, we immediately imagine Him as a very large figure with unlimited boundaries. The space is largest but as no power as it is treated has nothing. The atom bomb is very small but it has enormous power. Therefore, our idea about God should not be in terms of the three-dimensional space. When a person imagines a large city, the city is very huge but the person is very small. But that small person has created, maintains and finally dissolves this huge city. He can do anything in this huge city. Infact He is standing outside this huge city. When He wants to enter into this huge imaginary city, He will imagine a small form and He identifies Himself with that form. That small form represents the outside person. This imagined form, which is identified by the outside person, is treated as the outside person directly. This imagined small form is the human incarnation. The outside person is God. The imaginary huge city is this world.

Thus God identifies Himself with the human incarnation. From this angle the human incarnation and the God are one and the same. There is another angle in which the human incarnation is not the original God but a part and parcel of God. In this angle God and the human incarnation are treated as father and son. You can experience the Father only through this Son. In the third angle the human incarnation is just sent by God into this world as a messenger with some power. Jesus talked this truth in all the three angles. Jesus can save any human being who has any one of these three angles. Acceptance of Jesus as your saviour is the essential step in the spiritual effort. Here Jesus means the human incarnation in general. Only God is the saviour. But you cannot approach God directly. Only through the human incarnation you can approach God. This means you should accept the human incarnation as that very God. In such case only the human incarnation becomes your saviour.

God is like free electrons flowing in the atmosphere. These Electrons are the electricity. Then can you heat water by keeping the vessel containing water in the atmosphere? When these Electrons enter a medium like the metallic wire, you can heat water. If the medium is human form it is most convenient for you to clear your doubts, to love and to serve Him. Therefore, acceptance of Jesus as your Saviour means that you should accept the human incarnation as your saviour. It is told that Jesus will come again. This means that the human incarnation is coming in every human generation.

Otherwise, if one generation was only blessed by such fortune, the other generations will charge God as partial and such charge is justified. Therefore, if you think that Jesus means only that particular human incarnation, which came about 2000 years back, you have lost the whole concept. Through a particular example generalization must be made. If you say that sodium atom is indivisible it means the atom of any element is indivisible. If you say that Daniel is born, it means that every human being will be born. If this basic analysis is lost, the entire spiritual castle falls down due to the absence of its foundation.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 06:16:31 AM
"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)

When I become a guru/master/whatever I'm going to insist that my devotees call me Buff Hardbody :P



I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this. To accept the human incarnation itself creates the seed of egoism and jealousy. If the human form of God becomes famous while alive, the seed of egoism and jealousy will grow like a huge tree even in the heart of the closest devotee. Priests accepted the past human prophets. But to accept Jesus as Prophet in live form, jealousy entered as seed.

 Jesus was drawing crowds by His divine knowledge and the growing fame of Jesus developed the jealousy more and more, which lead to His crucification. Even His closest devotee betrayed Him due to jealousy and egoism. God is not fond of fame because He is bored with the fame in the upper world. Only human beings are fond of fame. God enjoys defame, which is not available in the upper world. Crucification was defame and the Lord enjoyed it well here.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Shanghaiski on October 29, 2010, 08:27:30 AM
"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)

When I become a guru/master/whatever I'm going to insist that my devotees call me Buff Hardbody :P



I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this. To accept the human incarnation itself creates the seed of egoism and jealousy. If the human form of God becomes famous while alive, the seed of egoism and jealousy will grow like a huge tree even in the heart of the closest devotee. Priests accepted the past human prophets. But to accept Jesus as Prophet in live form, jealousy entered as seed.

 Jesus was drawing crowds by His divine knowledge and the growing fame of Jesus developed the jealousy more and more, which lead to His crucification. Even His closest devotee betrayed Him due to jealousy and egoism. God is not fond of fame because He is bored with the fame in the upper world. Only human beings are fond of fame. God enjoys defame, which is not available in the upper world. Crucification was defame and the Lord enjoyed it well here.



You need professional, spiritual help.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 29, 2010, 09:38:36 AM

I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side.Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this.


Ok, this post just increased the entertainment value of this thread by a sizeable margin.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: NorthernPines on October 29, 2010, 10:35:36 AM
Discussion requires contest. We need to know the exact sources of the tripe you're posting so often.

I give discourses and the discurses are recoreded and typed.

Very few of them are given below.

You can visit my web site also
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace



April 2nd, 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/f5f2b69b-a39a-45b3-a819-9ecd4974d0e8/Discourse-on-2nd-April-2010
18 April 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/224bf4b6-f988-46f5-b5d6-c40e9d2809f6/Discourse-on-18-April-2010
March 7 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/26c14ce7-499e-481c-b2cd-3ddd24fa2019/March-7-2010
March 14 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8b295057-6af6-44d3-a364-ec855d0b21d5/March-14-2010
March 28 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/809191ca-a574-4a78-9b40-ac557be40015/March-28-2010
February 2 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/da6fdf46-9522-4ffa-9931-653b03700039/Febuary-2-2010
Feb 7 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/cb86203a-ac1b-4ed2-ba65-91607c889059/Feb-7-2010
Feb 27 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/7dc19aa6-d792-4cec-a691-c2a3d82fe04c/Feb-27-2010
Jan 23 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/5b53b50e-6a52-4924-9200-ffb4844d9a57/Jan-23-2010
Jan 26 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/fed9074f-fb6f-4048-8038-cf6ab15d08c4/Jan-26,-2010
25 April 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8e0be2d3-965b-4eb3-97fa-ac4cd385dabb/Discourse-on-25--April-2010
Shankara-Jayanthi-Message
http://www.esnips.com/doc/b5fd5007-a6a0-4500-a072-413599b02c52/Shankara-Jayanthi-Message
May-20-2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/5379b1e6-8861-421a-8971-e7610a787ef5/May-20-2010
July 4 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/017bd067-792f-4a5f-ba20-cbce63327496/4-July-2010
11 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/d0da717d-6467-4497-a300-3a969be3f860/11-July-2010
20 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/3db8f18c-c1e9-4b47-81f1-2832a3aeae32/20-July-2010

25 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/95fea621-58a6-40f2-86c5-90cf9d5c9ec9/25-July-2010-Divine_Discourse_By_Swami-GURUPURNIMA

http://www.esnips.com/doc/1907280b-54af-4654-a51c-50c1996896aa/25-July-2010-After-noon-message

25 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/95fea621-58a6-40f2-86c5-90cf9d5c9ec9/25-July-2010-Divine_Discourse_By_Swami-GURUPURNIMA
25 July 2010 After noon message
http://www.esnips.com/doc/1907280b-54af-4654-a51c-50c1996896aa/25-July-2010-After-noon-message
2 August 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/74faa0ab-97bc-4ca0-b431-576e86d7f8fd/August-2-2010
August 3, 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/567746ab-8e86-44ed-820c-fdf05b1eb7d2/August-3-2010





As I told you via PM, this is a good start for giving the sources of your copy and past posts, however you still need to explicitly state, within each individual post you make whether or not you are merely copy and pasting material and a link to the particular website. How would you like it if we began copy and pasting long extracts from our theologians like Met. Kallistos Ware, but without references to where it is we got that material? I understand these are, presumably, your words, but we still feel as though you are just throwing a bunch of words at us and very few of us can even make sense out of what it is you're saying. As PeterTheAleut has said, by simply throwing a near limitless supply of previous writings of yours at us, you are turning the forum into your own personal blog. We believe God is not a God of confusion, however 20 threads totally void of context or one to one dialogue IS confusing to every single one us us here.

 I am therefore going to make an official request; from this moment forward, any future post of yours that contains copy and pasted material from anywhere else, that doesn't explicitly state that it is in fact a copy and pasted post will result in further and immediate disciplinary action. I'm sorry we couldn't have gotten off to a better start but coming here and  explicitly violating the forum rules, not to mention the utter lack of any sort of good internet manners leaves me no choice in the matter.

Northern Pines, Religious Topics Forum Moderator

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 10:43:43 AM

I give discourses and the discurses are recoreded and typed.

Very few of them are given below.

You can visit my web site also
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace


couldn't have gotten off to a better start but coming here and  explicitly violating the forum rules, not to mention the utter lack of any sort of good internet manners leaves me no choice in the matter.

Northern Pines, Religious Topics Forum Moderator[/color]



Following is not a copy pase...

Northern Pines;

I understand your point.

I am introducing certain concepts through my posts, which are a part of many discourses which i gave.

The knoweldge is open for discussion and I am no way distrub all of you, but would like to see your points on my points.

For example today christianity has fallen down to such an extent that they use God mainly for obtaining worldly things and some say that salvation is free gift.

This preaching is OK for those who are just started believing in God. For them it is a point of attraction. But once one become a devotee of God, next step is to please Him not only through mental devotion like prayers, but practical sacrifice also. This does not mean that God need our sacrifice and service but it shows our strength of love on Him. God is unimaginable and no body can comprehend, that is one point. But other point the value we give to God.

 The point is not about imaginable form or unimaginable form of God. The point is whether you can prove practically that God is highest for you or not?

A voice from the sky came down to Abraham asking him that whether he can sacrifice his son for the sake of God. Here God is not in the visible form. Abraham immediately proved his devotion. Jesus asked the fishermen to leave everything and follow Him. They left everything and followed Jesus. Here, Abraham and fishermen proved their highest devotion for God. In the case of Abraham God was in invisible form and unimaginable. In the case of fishermen God was in a visible human form. Therefore, the imaginable and unimaginable concepts of God are not important.

Moreover, the unimaginable concept of God is not from the side of God. It is only from your side since it is your defect. Your imagination cannot transcend the dimensions of space to understand God, who is beyond space, being the creator of space.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 10:59:15 AM
Northern Pines;

following is not a copy paste....

In my posts you might have noticed that a very important point is evolved out that the importance of spiritual effort and practical service to God, that is a very important pont also loving and serving GOd without any expectation...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 11:02:48 AM

I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side.Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this.


Ok, this post just increased the entertainment value of this thread by a sizeable margin.
Here the God component in me told that....

Human incarnation is a mixture of God and Son of GOd existing in the same human body. God comes to this world by entering Son of God and preach through the mouth of Son of God for the upliftment of others...The divine knoweldge you are reading are from the GOD alone...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 29, 2010, 11:10:29 AM

I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side.Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this.


Ok, this post just increased the entertainment value of this thread by a sizeable margin.

For God this world is just an entertainment. He is bored off in the upperworld due to continues praises. Hence for a change He comes down in Human form and preaches divine knoweldge for His upliftment and even He hear the abuses of people and simply smiles at it, because He even enjoys the abuses also since He is get a break from the continous praises in the upperworld...Thus devotees are entertaining God by even abusing Him!!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: NorthernPines on October 29, 2010, 11:11:26 AM

Northern Pines;

I understand your point.

I'm glad. I would personally enjoy discussing some of these topics, but not dozens at a time, maybe a point or two at a time and then sort of dig into those. lengthy discourses are fine for reading but not for internet forums such as this.


Quote
For example today christianity has fallen down to such an extent that they use God mainly for obtaining worldly things and some say that salvation is free gift.


It might do some good to explore a bit about the Orthodox Christian faith itself. We believe no such thing like many Evangelical Protestants do, that Christianity is merely a "free ticket to heaven" or to give us a bunch of cool things like cars, money a toys. We don't see "stuff" as inherently bad in itself, but the Christian life is not about getting "stuff" at all as it in what has been labeled the "prosperity Gospel".

It's tempting to label "Christianity" as a monolithic block of basically everyone believing the same thing, but it is not. While we do hold certain doctrines in common with other Christians, you'll find that Orthodox Christianity has a vastly different approach than the Christianity you're probably familiar with.


Quote
This preaching is OK for those who are just started believing in God. For them it is a point of attraction. But once one become a devotee of God, next step is to please Him not only through mental devotion like prayers, but practical sacrifice also. This does not mean that God need our sacrifice and service but it shows our strength of love on Him.

I basically agree with that. While we wouldn't word it in exactly the same way, I think the concept is essentially the same. We have a concept called "Theosis", which you can read about here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis#Greek_Orthodox_theology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis#Greek_Orthodox_theology)

Stick to the Orthodox description. It's not a perfect description but it's an okay start. It is summed up in St. Athanasius' saying that, "God became man (in the person of Jesus of Nazareth) that man might become god". Not that we become God literally in essence but that we do partake of His divine nature, His energies, which are actually part of God Himself.


Quote
Moreover, the unimaginable concept of God is not from the side of God. It is only from your side since it is your defect. Your imagination cannot transcend the dimensions of space to understand God, who is beyond space, being the creator of space.


I'm not sure I completely follow, but we too say that it is impossible to know God in His essence. It is a complete and utter mystery, and it is not even proper to refer to God as a "being" at all, but rather simply to say that "God is".

Orthodoxy has much more in common with Eastern religious thought and concepts than say Protestant Baptists do. Not that I'm bashing Protestantism or Baptists, I'm just saying you should assume we hold to the same thought patterns as they do.

NP
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: NorthernPines on October 29, 2010, 11:15:31 AM
Northern Pines;

following is not a copy paste....

In my posts you might have noticed that a very important point is evolved out that the importance of spiritual effort and practical service to God, that is a very important pont also loving and serving GOd without any expectation...



You actually only need to tell us when what you are posting is in fact a copy and paste post. (as well as provide the appropriate link) You do not need to tell us when your post is not a copy and paste, however I appreciate you doing so as it shows good intentions on your part and in fact it helps distill any doubts others may have.  Much appreciated.

Northern Pines, Religious Topics Forum Moderator
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: peccatorum on October 29, 2010, 11:17:07 AM
well, it would be great if one could not sin. By the way, it sounds pellagian (heretical). The doctrine says that only our sins belong to us. Our good deeds are provided by the divine mercy.
And life is sufffering. Even in hinduism. We suffer because we are sinners, not because we have karma.
Ad Majorem Gloriam Dei.
I think it is valid philosophically. We just have to ask properly: why is Karma philosophy innapropriate to Christianity? Why we do not believe in it?
Actually the answer is very simple: Since Jesus come to rescue our sins, our sins have no poweer over us, since we repenth. So we do not have to suffer to evolve.
Ad Majorem Gloriam Dei.

But lot of Jesus believers are suffering now also (no offense please). My point is that even after beleiving or accepting Jesus christ as saviour one should really stop doing sins and also should increase our love to Him and work for Him without expecting anything in return...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: peccatorum on October 29, 2010, 11:19:49 AM
I think that if you answer properly, you can bring this person to Christ Light. If you think it is merely philosophical, you can bring him away of the Light.
Ad Majorem Gloriam Dei.
Dear Dattaswami,

Please stop your "spiritual" prosyletizing on this forum. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. (St. John 14:6) Christ is not a way. He is not a divine manifestation. He is not an enlightened guru or god. He is not merely one prophet amongst many others. Jesus Christ is Lord the Universe, the Second Person of the triune Godhead- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One God!

You are disrespecting this forum with your unOrthodox views. Perhaps you are sincere, and I will assume that you are. But if you continue these types of posts, then you are violating the spiritual welfare and Christian intentions of this website. If indeed you mean well, then you will promote your heterodox ideas on your own website, not here.

Thank you and peace to you.


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: NorthernPines on October 29, 2010, 11:24:19 AM

In my posts you might have noticed that a very important point is evolved out that the importance of spiritual effort and practical service to God, that is a very important pont also loving and serving GOd without any expectation...

That is a very Orthodox Christian understanding as well. After all Jesus said the greatest commandment was to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind", and the second was, "love your neighbor as yourself". I agree that true love of God to love out of pure love, not just to pretend to love God because of what He can do for us. I do realize there are some Christians who preach that God is sort of like Santa Clause or a magic genie, but even most prosperity preachers don't mean it exactly in that way. (though it does sound like it) But you're right, we should love God from our hearts, but some people don't start there; they need to learn to love God in purity and in truth. This is where God's transforming power and mercy comes in to transform us from the inside out to love more like Christ. I just don't see much a difference between what you're saying and what we believe on this issue in particular.

If I say I "love" Jesus, but only do so because he can do something for me, is that really love? I dunno. I'm not wise enough to know what other people's intentions are or are not. I can only speak for myself. Even in certain wings of the Eastern religions one here's much talk about meditation and enlightenment and praying to God "so I can become illumined", but that's the same thing you're talking about not doing. I think the best most of us can do is to do our best to love God without ulterior motives, most of us fail, but sometimes we have saints who achieve this level of Theosis (as we call it) that they truly love God for the sake of loving God. The rest of us can only strive to do that. That's my opinion anyways.


NP
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 29, 2010, 11:26:24 AM
Maybe it's me, but I wonder if this person is using some really bad translation software?  Maybe all this actually makes some kind of sense in the orginal language.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 29, 2010, 12:05:53 PM
Red shirts?  Is this a thread about "Star Trek" now?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on October 29, 2010, 12:26:35 PM
From your website:

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

 Since I'm not a devotee of yours, I reckon I'll call you Hugh Morris.  ;)

 Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….). This does not mean that God is the knowledge itself. It only means that the possessor of right and excellent knowledge is God and such knowledge is His correct identification mark since it is His inseparable characteristic. If some body wears a red shirt always, the red shirt becomes his identity mark and you can call him as the red shirt like calling “Oh! Red shirt! Come here”. Gita gives clarification on this point, which says that the possessor of knowledge is God (Jnaanitvaatmaiava……).  Since God enters the human being only, such identification is mentioned. The human being is always characterized by the knowledge. Knowledge is one sided characteristic of awareness. It means knowledge is always associated with awareness and awareness need not be associated always with knowledge.

An animal or bird has awareness but no knowledge. Therefore, you should not take awareness as the meaning of the words indicating knowledge in Veda like Jnanam and Prajnanam. This clarification is given in Gita, which says that God enters human body (Manusheem….). Hence, Gita always gives clarifications on Veda. Such correct clarification can be correctly clarified by the human incarnation only since the same God, who said Gita, can alone give the original sense of the text. The Author himself can alone give the correct sense of his own statement. Since, God is one and the same in all the human incarnations, any human incarnation can clarify the text said by any other human incarnation.


This is the story of the great war that Rikki-tikki-tavi fought
single-handed, through the bath-rooms of the big bungalow in
Segowlee cantonment. Darzee, the Tailorbird, helped him, and
Chuchundra, the musk-rat, who never comes out into the middle of
the floor, but always creeps round by the wall, gave him advice,
but Rikki-tikki did the real fighting.

Thus spoke Rudyard Kipling
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on October 29, 2010, 12:27:58 PM
"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)

When I become a guru/master/whatever I'm going to insist that my devotees call me Buff Hardbody :P



I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this. To accept the human incarnation itself creates the seed of egoism and jealousy. If the human form of God becomes famous while alive, the seed of egoism and jealousy will grow like a huge tree even in the heart of the closest devotee. Priests accepted the past human prophets. But to accept Jesus as Prophet in live form, jealousy entered as seed.

 Jesus was drawing crowds by His divine knowledge and the growing fame of Jesus developed the jealousy more and more, which lead to His crucification. Even His closest devotee betrayed Him due to jealousy and egoism. God is not fond of fame because He is bored with the fame in the upper world. Only human beings are fond of fame. God enjoys defame, which is not available in the upper world. Crucification was defame and the Lord enjoyed it well here.



He was a mongoose, rather like a little cat in his fur and his
tail, but quite like a weasel in his head and his habits. His
eyes and the end of his restless nose were pink. He could scratch
himself anywhere he pleased with any leg, front or back, that he
chose to use. He could fluff up his tail till it looked like a
bottle brush, and his war cry as he scuttled through the long
grass was: "Rikk-tikk-tikki-tikki-tchk!"

Thus spoke Rudyard Kipling
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 29, 2010, 01:01:24 PM
God will never give anything free to any body. Proper deservigness is needed. Jesus Himself has quoted this.

"...For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."




Have you completely read my reply?


Without eligibility, God will never give anything to anybody at any time. But the devotee must take the first step towards God. The necessity is for the devotee. The Veda says ‘Aptakamsya’ i.e., ‘God has attained everything and there is nothing which He has to achieve’. You have come near the sea with a pot. You should take a step into the water and make an effort to fill your pot.

Then the sea moves in to fill the pot with its water. Therefore human effort is necessary.


Actually God made the first move in our salvation.

"But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Yes, we must choose to accept or reject this for ourselves, but Christ destroyed Death, whether we want it or not.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Luke on October 29, 2010, 01:06:45 PM
What's a gita?  Is that a metric measurement like giga?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Punch on October 29, 2010, 04:42:12 PM

I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit.


Well, I came down from a moon in the third ring around Uranus, and the only thing that I feel rising like a Tsunami after reading this stuff is my lunch.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 29, 2010, 08:01:16 PM
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt


He was a mongoose, rather like a little cat in his fur and his
tail, but quite like a weasel in his head and his habits. His
eyes and the end of his restless nose were pink. He could scratch
himself anywhere he pleased with any leg, front or back, that he
chose to use. He could fluff up his tail till it looked like a
bottle brush, and his war cry as he scuttled through the long
grass was: "Rikk-tikk-tikki-tikki-tchk!"

Thus spoke Rudyard Kipling



This brings back memories! I really miss reading the Just So Stories in school.  :)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 12:35:58 AM
From your website:

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

 Since I'm not a devotee of yours, I reckon I'll call you Hugh Morris.  ;)

 Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….). This does not mean that God is the knowledge itself. It only means that the possessor of right and excellent knowledge is God and such knowledge is His correct identification mark since it is His inseparable characteristic. If some body wears a red shirt always, the red shirt becomes his identity mark and you can call him as the red shirt like calling “Oh! Red shirt! Come here”. Gita gives clarification on this point, which says that the possessor of knowledge is God (Jnaanitvaatmaiava……).  Since God enters the human being only, such identification is mentioned. The human being is always characterized by the knowledge. Knowledge is one sided characteristic of awareness. It means knowledge is always associated with awareness and awareness need not be associated always with knowledge.

An animal or bird has awareness but no knowledge. Therefore, you should not take awareness as the meaning of the words indicating knowledge in Veda like Jnanam and Prajnanam. This clarification is given in Gita, which says that God enters human body (Manusheem….). Hence, Gita always gives clarifications on Veda. Such correct clarification can be correctly clarified by the human incarnation only since the same God, who said Gita, can alone give the original sense of the text. The Author himself can alone give the correct sense of his own statement. Since, God is one and the same in all the human incarnations, any human incarnation can clarify the text said by any other human incarnation.


This is the story of the great war that Rikki-tikki-tavi fought
single-handed, through the bath-rooms of the big bungalow in
Segowlee cantonment. Darzee, the Tailorbird, helped him, and
Chuchundra, the musk-rat, who never comes out into the middle of
the floor, but always creeps round by the wall, gave him advice,
but Rikki-tikki did the real fighting.

Thus spoke Rudyard Kipling

Meaning of this post is that, God comes in human form and HIs identity mark is the true divine knoweldge He speaks. Divine knowledge coming out of God in human form existing on this earth now is the identity mark of GOd in Him....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 30, 2010, 12:44:44 AM
Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….).

We don't recognize that authority around these parts.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 01:00:52 AM
Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….).

We don't recognize that authority around these parts.

You can recognise, through His divine knowledge. He is alive now in this world. His recognising sign is His divine knoweldge, through His divine knowledge you can identify Him....

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 01:03:18 AM

I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit.


Well, I came down from a moon in the third ring around Uranus, and the only thing that I feel rising like a Tsunami after reading this stuff is my lunch.



‘Coming down’ does not mean distancewise or spacewise and it is not a statement of spacial dimensions. It does not mean that coming from sky to the earth. It is a question of God coming to this world in human form. We are at a lower level. He is in the higher level.

 He comes from higher level to the lower level. Here, level means level of dignity or level of status. Suppose a king comes to the hut of a begger, we will say that the king has come down to the begger’s house. This does not mean that the king’s house is in the upper level and begger’s house is at the lower level. God is certainly at the highest level than all of us. Here, the word ‘down’ indicates respect to the highest position of God. Suppose a professor teaches to LKG students, we say that the Professor has come down to the level of LKG. This means that he has come down in level of standard.

It also means creator is beyond creation. All the creation is pervaded by space. Our mind cannot cross the space and God is beyond the space. The creator, who is beyond space, enters the space i. e., creation. He becomes mediated. He enters a medium and the mediation of original God is known as ‘coming down’. It is only a poetic language and a figurative speech.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 30, 2010, 01:06:05 AM
Yes, He is alive through Jesus Christ, who comes to us in the Eucharist. :)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 03:48:51 AM
Yes, He is alive through Jesus Christ, who comes to us in the Eucharist. :)

Only a living God can speaks to us. A living God can alone clear our doubts. Even though Jesus is available in Eucharist, He cannot speak through the Eucharist. At the same time Jesus is available in a human form. His Holiness Shri Dattaswami is the present Human form of Jesus. You can talk to Him, and clarify all your doubts. Eucharist cannot speak to you, it is inert. But living Jesus is available in present Human form of God.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 03:51:02 AM
Yes, He is alive through Jesus Christ, who comes to us in the Eucharist. :)

God is a living God. He is a God who can speak to us the divine knowledge live. Such God is known as Human incarnation. Human incarnation is God Himself, because God is alive in that Human form. God is present in that Son of God. And God speaks through Him the divine knowledge. God can never speak non-sense and God alone can preach about Him self, hence there is a need for God to come to this world in human form to reveal the knoweldge about Him...Hence He comes in human form....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 03:57:53 AM
.

That is a very Orthodox Christian understanding as well. After all Jesus said the greatest commandment was to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind", and the second was, "love your neighbor as yourself". I agree that tr..........

NP
Right. Love to God (Nivrutti) is even greater than love to society or human being (Pravrutti). One can never love an invisible God. God should be available to us right now in human form, then only our love to Him is TESTED PRACTICALLY. Thus Jesus comes in human form in every generation so that you can prove your love to Him practically. Jesus is a practical God not theoretical God. A practical God see the practical aspect of your love. Your prayer forms a very little fraction of your love to God, remaining part is the practical service you do to the present human form of Jesus. It is the point which need attention. Practical love to the GOD PRESENT IN HUMAN FORM HERE ON EARTH RIGHT NOW....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 04:05:32 AM




Without eligibility, God will never give anything to anybody at any time. But the devotee must take the

Actually God made the first move in our salvation.

"But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Yes, we must choose to accept or reject this for ourselves, but Christ destroyed Death, whether we want it or not.

Such preaching are for low level devotees so that they will start their spiritual journey. For exmaple if one says, Jesus died for your sins 2000 yrs back, every will get attracted to God since it is freely given. So masses of people get attracted even a very big sinner also become a believer in God. It is the starting step, the journey has began.

Next step is to serach for Jesus who is alive in this world. Only a living Jesus can carry your sins upon Him when you are alive. For example when Jesus went to St Peters house, his mother in law was suffering from fever. Then Jesus take that fever alive then and there itself and relived the fever for the sake of Peters mother. Thus God should be simultaneously available in the world to take the sins upton His body to releive the sins of the then alive devotees. Hence the truth is that Jesus comes in every human generation and you must meet Him and serve Him and learn His divine knowledge and propagate it without any expecation of anything in return. When you reach such a higher level of high level devotion to the living Jesus of this time, then secretely Jesus will take your sins upon His body now here itself. All this happen only when your love to living Jesus of this generation becomes very huge and defeat all other love to other things of the world.

Thus identification of present human incarnation (Jesus) is very imprtant, learning His divine knowledge is the next step...and participating His mission of divine knoweldge is also a part of this, which should be done without any selfishness to be fulfilled....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 04:30:12 AM
What's a gita?  Is that a metric measurement like giga?

Gita is a scripture of GOd like bible.

I will quote some verses for Gita for your understanding:

And whoever, at the time of death, quits his body, remembering Me (Jesus) alone, at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt.



For one who remembers Me (Jesus) without deviation, I am easy to obtain, O son of Prtha, because of his constant engagement in devotional service.


After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.



For one who worships Me, giving up all his activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, who has fixed his mind upon Me, O son of Prtha, for him I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.



Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt.


One who is not envious but who is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor, who is free from false ego and equal both in happiness and distress, who is always satisfied and engaged in devotional service with determination and whose mind and intelligence are in agreement with Me--he is very dear to Me.

He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not disturbed by anxiety, who is steady in happiness and distress, is very dear to Me.



A devotee who is not dependent on the ordinary course of activities, who is pure, expert, without cares, free from all pains, and who does not strive for some result, is very dear to Me.


One who neither grasps pleasure or grief, who neither laments nor desires, and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious things, is very dear to Me.


One who is equal to friends and enemies, who is equipoised in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy, who is always free from contamination, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn't care for any residence, who is fixed in knowledge and engaged in devotional service, is very dear to Me.



He who follows this imperishable path of devotional service and who completely engages himself with faith, making Me the supreme goal, is very, very dear to Me.



One who neither hates nor desires the fruits of his activities is known to be always renounced. Such a person, liberated from all dualities, easily overcomes material bondage and is completely liberated, O mighty-armed Arjuna.

Unless one is engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, mere renunciation of activities cannot make one happy. The sages, purified by works of devotion, achieve the Supreme without delay.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 04:38:26 AM
Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 04:43:19 AM
One who works in devotion, who is a pure soul, and who controls his mind and senses, is dear to everyone, and everyone is dear to him. Though always working, such a man is never entangled.



A person in the divine consciousness, although engaged in seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, eating, moving about, sleeping and breathing, always knows within himself that he actually does nothing at all. Because while speaking, evacuating, receiving, opening or closing his eyes, he always knows that only the material senses are engaged with their objects and that he is aloof from them



One who performs his duty without attachment, surrendering the results unto the Supreme God, is not affected by sinful action, as the lotus leaf is untouched by water.


The steadily devoted soul attains unadulterated peace because he offers the result of all activities to Me; whereas a person who is not in union with the Divine, who is greedy for the fruits of his labor, becomes entangled.



When one's intelligence, mind, faith and refuge are all fixed in the Supreme, then one becomes fully cleansed of misgivings through complete knowledge and thus proceeds straight on the path of liberation.


A person who neither rejoices upon achieving something pleasant nor laments upon obtaining something unpleasant, who is self-intelligent, unbewildered, and who knows the science of God, is to be understood as already situated in Transcendence.


Such a liberated person is not attracted to material sense pleasure or external objects but is always in trance, enjoying the pleasure within. In this way the self-realized person enjoys unlimited happiness, for he concentrates on the Supreme.



An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery, which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kunti, such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does not delight in them.

Before giving up this present body, if one is able to tolerate the urges of the material senses and check the force of desire and anger, he is a yogi and is happy in this world.


One whose happiness is within, who is active within, who rejoices within and is illumined within, is actually the perfect mystic. He is liberated in the Supreme, and ultimately he attains the Supreme.



The above are the few verses of Gita (http://www.asitis.com/5/index.html)

Just to show all you that it is the Same God Jesus who spoke Gita also....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 04:59:37 AM
Ok, I'll take the bait: who is the present incarnation of God?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 05:13:01 AM
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ~Matthew 7:15
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on October 30, 2010, 05:22:12 AM
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ~Matthew 7:15


That sums it up best.



Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 06:50:02 AM
Ok, I'll take the bait: who is the present incarnation of God?

Very good question. In the Chemistry laboratory the practical procedure is given to you and the salt is given.  According to the procedure you have to analyze the substance and find out the name of the salt by yourself.  Veda says that the infinite true special knowledge, which cannot be preached by any one and which generates love and bliss in our hearts is the main characteristic of the Lord.  He possesses super powers but does not use for exhibition due to egoism.  By these confirmatory tests you can find out the fullest form of the Lord (Paripurna Avatara) who is Lord Datta (God) himself.  Of course all the preachers are the human incarnations of the disciples of Lord Datta. 
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 06:53:50 AM
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ~Matthew 7:15

Yes one has to be very altert in this world, because it is first of all very difficult to identify the real God in human form since the real God in human form is mixed with all other ignornat preachers. So one has to put effort to identify Him. Then what is the clue to identify Him?

The above problem is to be avoided since there is no other alternative than getting the right direction from the knowledge of the right human incarnation. The right knowledge is very essential without which the correct direction in the spiritual effort is lost. All the doubts about the right knowledge can be efficiently clarified from the right human incarnation only. Unless the doubts are perfectly clarified, the knowledge cannot be implemented by the human being. If the direction is wrong, all the effort goes waste and hence the right knowledge plays very important role in any effort. Since there is no other way than the human incarnation (Nanyahpanthah…Shruti), you have to avoid all the exploitations and stick to the concept.

The clue to identify the right human incarnation becomes very important point. The only clue is to recognize the right knowledge, since the right incarnation alone gives the right knowledge. What is the way to recognize the right knowledge? Your  inner conscience alone can recognize the right knowledge.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 06:58:31 AM
Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

I have already answered, in other posts...Please refer it.....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 07:04:37 AM
Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

There is a basic fundamental in your question.. Because any body can proclaim himself as God, but how to identify it?

The only identification mark is the true divine knowledge which God alone can preach. Even demons do miracles by they are not God, why because they do not posses divine knoweldge. They got the power to do the miracles from, GOd by doing penance and due to their rigidity, God gave them those powers. God in human form also can perform miracles but He never do it for crowd pulling and fame. THE only point which identify God in human form as God is the divine knowledge He preaches. Then who will decide that that divine knowledge is correct? You yourself, your inner conciousness will tell you this knoweldge is correct or not.

God never preach foolishness. He never tell, follow Me blindly. His divine knowledge is like double edged sword, which cuts the ignorance or doubts of a person. It is like fire which burns the ignorance of us.

Yohanann, came before Jesus. He could not preach the true divine knoweldge , he could only preach the knoweldge with lesser truth and lot of ignorance and it is like water. But Jesus then Human incarnation preached fire. Here fire means true divine knoweldge which removes all our doubts since it contains 100% truth and not polluted at all. Such divine knoweldge removes all our doubts completely and our devotion to GOd will increase and attain a maxiumum....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 07:06:34 AM
Jesus used Reason

The following is the knowledge spoken by me to devotees previously...

If you see Bible, Jesus gives reason everywhere in His concepts. For every statement He gives the reason. When the priests asked Him that He should not have saved the animal, which has fallen in the pit on the festival day, He gave the reason for His effort to save that animal. He analyzed the Old Testament and gave logical interpretations. He did not mind to cut some irrational blind statements present in the Old Testament, by giving rational modifications.

He has fulfilled His duty to be the true guide of the humanity. Whenever He leaves the world these rigid people twist and pollute the meanings of scriptures. To rectify He comes again and again. When the teacher leaves for a few minutes the class becomes undisciplined. The teacher comes to the class again and again. For teaching, the human form is essential. A statue can not teach you. If you think Him formless, He is not speaking to you from the sky or space or air. The human body is most convenient medium for the human beings to hear preaching of the God. The main goal of God is to preach the human beings and correct them to put in the right spiritual path.

For beginners, He does some miracles as signs for His presence in the human body. The realized souls will detect Him even without those signs. Sheep see the shepherd and come near by recognizing him with eyes. Some milder sheep come near by hearing his voice, which is a miracle. The mildest sheep try to go away and are punished by the stick of shepherd, which is nothing but permanent hell. Therefore, if you keep Jesus in the place of the present human incarnation and place the same blind priests in the place of present blind followers, you can understand the truth because the same story and the same cinema is repeated with different actors having different names.

 This is the best way of understanding the truth. Those priests also opposed Jesus, when He argued with wonderful reason. The duty of the teacher finishes by teaching clearly to the class. It is up to the student to grasp it and pass or twist it and fail following the sweet emotional advises of bad blind friends. The Lord is not worried about the percentage of pass because there is no fault in His teaching. He should not be blamed for the pass or failure of the students. A student himself is to be blamed. When the messenger comes to the earth, he delivers his duty so that the God is pleased with him in the upper world.

 He is not bothered about the fame in this world or the number of followers. God will not find fault with the messenger if the human beings did not pass. He finds fault with the messenger if the message is not properly delivered. Jesus never bothered about propagation of His knowledge. His aim was only to sit on the right side of His pleased Father after doing the duty assigned by Him. He never cared even if the people rejected, insulted and even crucified Him. His aim was God but not the world.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Irish Hermit on October 30, 2010, 08:39:27 AM
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ~Matthew 7:15

Yes one has to be very altert in this world, because it is first of all very difficult to identify the real God in human form since the real God in human form is mixed with all other ignornat preachers. So one has to put effort to identify Him. Then what is the clue to identify Him?

The above problem is to be avoided since there is no other alternative than getting the right direction from the knowledge of the right human incarnation. The right knowledge is very essential without which the correct direction in the spiritual effort is lost. All the doubts about the right knowledge can be efficiently clarified from the right human incarnation only. Unless the doubts are perfectly clarified, the knowledge cannot be implemented by the human being. If the direction is wrong, all the effort goes waste and hence the right knowledge plays very important role in any effort. Since there is no other way than the human incarnation (Nanyahpanthah…Shruti), you have to avoid all the exploitations and stick to the concept.

The clue to identify the right human incarnation becomes very important point. The only clue is to recognize the right knowledge, since the right incarnation alone gives the right knowledge. What is the way to recognize the right knowledge? Your  inner conscience alone can recognize the right knowledge.


Has anybody identified the God in human form of the 21st century?

To my knowledge nobody has found him and so his present incarnation on earth would seem a bit of a waste of time.

Of course there is the incarnation of Christ who lives in London.....

"According to a London artist Benjamin Creme, Lord Maitreya, the Christ lives in the Asian community in the East End of London, England, UK. In July 1977 Maitreya emerged from His centre in the Himalayas and travelled to London through Pakistan. Since then He has lived in London as an ordinary man concerned with modern problems. Maitreya has been emerging as a spokesman in the Pakistani-Indian community. He is not a religious leader but an educator in the broadest sense, pointing the way out of the present world crisis."
http://www.einterface.net/gamini/christ.html


Is this the person to whom you are pointing, dear Swami?

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: NorthernPines on October 30, 2010, 10:25:10 AM
Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

According to his website, our new friend is the present Incarnation of God. :)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 30, 2010, 10:33:26 AM
In that sense, of course, he is wrong.

However, he may just have a poor understanding of what Jesus DID tell us:  namely that we should treat everyone we encounter *as if* they are Him - i.e., "whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto Me."

In that case, EVERYONE we meet is the "incarnation of Jesus", as to how we treat them.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 30, 2010, 10:43:14 AM
"You're not a God.  Trust me, this is 12 years of Catholic school talkin'."  - Rita (Andie McDowell) to Phil (Bill Murray), "Groundhog Day"  :)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 30, 2010, 10:46:30 AM
"You're not a God.  Trust me, this is 12 years of Catholic school talkin'."  - Rita (Andie McDowell) to Phil (Bill Murray), "Groundhog Day"  :)
;D :laugh: :laugh:

Very nice.

"I'm A god, not THE God...at least I don't think I am."
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 30, 2010, 10:49:36 AM
If you're God, tell me where my car keys are.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: NorthernPines on October 30, 2010, 10:50:59 AM

 Thus Jesus comes in human form in every generation so that you can prove your love to Him practically. Jesus is a practical God not theoretical God. A practical God see the practical aspect of your love. Your prayer forms a very little fraction of your love to God, remaining part is the practical service you do to the present human form of Jesus.

So we have to find the present Incarnation and serve him or her? Is that what you are saying? I have a couple of problems with this.

First, by what methods do we determine who is the present Incarnation? According to your website YOU are the present Incarnation, but Sathya Sai Baba also claims this, along with many others. How am I to determine if you or Sai Baba is the present Incarnation? What about those who in fact do not claim this for themselves, but whom their followers claim or at least speculate they are the present Incarnation, like Ammachi? I would think she might actually be a better fit as as far as I know she doesn't claim this herself, but rather her followers claim it. That brings me to my second issue/problem. I am skeptical of anyone who comes right out and says, "I am an Incarnation of God, worship and serve me!" This is at best a sign that that individual has not yet shed him or herself of the ego, (and thus cannot be God) at worst, well who knows, the worst could be a lot of different things to different people.

A very clear teaching of the vast majority of Hinduism (which many do call the universal religion) is that every person is different and each person should be free to choose the Avatar or Avatars which best suits their spiritual life. Even if you were the "present" Incarnation of God, certainly you would recognize that though you may be a "fit" for some, you won't be for others. Since God does not change, and His message is indeed universal it doesn't matter (according to Hindu teaching) if I am a devotee of Jesus, krishna, Sathya Sai Baba or Ammachi because they are all teaching the same thing anyways. So what would be the point of "serving" a present Incarnation and worshipping him or her when serving Krishna is exactly the same thing? And what of Vedanta spriituality which often bypasses the need for Avatars, and sees such devotion as merely for the beginners?


Quote
Practical love to the GOD PRESENT IN HUMAN FORM HERE ON EARTH RIGHT NOW....


What of the great teachers on non-duality which says God is every where and in each of us? What of the example of Ammachi who teaches LOVE of each other is the best devotion to God, and not to be so worried about specific Incarnations over the needs of our fellow humans (and animals).

You must understand that claiming we need to be devoted to YOU is going to seem problematic. Jesus never claimed such importance for himself, but rather when someone came to him saying "good teacher" Jesus replied, "Why do you call me good, only God is good!" Yes, we believe Jesus was God Incarnate, but He claimed no glory for himself. Which is why, if there was a present Incarnation of God, I would lean towards someone like Ammachi who claims no glory for herself.

I do agree with you, practical love of God is what matters. But I try to do that in carrying out my Lord's teachings, to love my neighbor as myself. This is hard enough in life, trying to accept that you are also the Logos Incarnate, when you are claiming contradictory things to previous Incarnations is a bit tough to accept. If you want to discuss the importance of practical love, that's fine. If you want to talk comparative religion, that's great, but if you're trying to convince of your opinion of yourself, that I'm afraid isn't going to fly well, even with me who is pretty darn ecumenical (though I wasn't always), but I definitely have my limits.

NP
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: NorthernPines on October 30, 2010, 10:56:10 AM
In that sense, of course, he is wrong.

However, he may just have a poor understanding of what Jesus DID tell us:  namely that we should treat everyone we encounter *as if* they are Him - i.e., "whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto Me."

In that case, EVERYONE we meet is the "incarnation of Jesus", as to how we treat them.

Agreed! And this was my point about Ammachi, (ie: the hugging saint). This is her teaching as well. (which she freely admits Jesus taught 2000 years ago) Hopefully he will see that outward "service" to a single individual is not the teaching of Christ, or many Hindu saints, gurus and Avatars (if one accepts Avatars that is), but rather service to our fellow man, ALL mankind is what matters. In feeding the poor we are worshiping and serving God.

NP

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 30, 2010, 10:57:52 AM
I'm intrigued by your knowledge of Hinduism, NP.  Frankly it's a religion I know little about.

Could you perhaps recommend a good basic book about it? Thanks!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on October 30, 2010, 11:07:34 AM
If you're God, tell me where my car keys are.

That's what St. Anthony is there for. God's a busy man, but he's good at delegation  :P
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:37:58 AM
If you're God, tell me where my car keys are.

Your question is interesting and expected only. Jesus was made blind by tying a cloth around His eyes and soldiers beat Him and asked HIm to tell the name of the person if He were God. Generally people mock GOd when He comes in human form. They think that GOd is only  the source of power. His first identity mark is the true divine knowledge. That Lady did not go to Jesus, but Jesus went to the well of Jacob and was waiting for her under the scrotching sun. Here God in human form personally went to that particular lady, why because she deserved it.

God will never do miracles for show. Jesus was tempted by the Satan to prove His divinity through miracles. Jesus refused and rebuked Satan.

Let us imagine if I say your misplaced Key details then also you will tell I am a black magician. Thus miralce alone is not a proof. THe divine knowledge is the proof.

Miracles are performed according to program and wish of God. If somebody asks for a miracle and if it is included in the divine program, it will happen. Human incarnation is a two-in-one system. God acts in the medium as current. Only current does the miracle. The fan (the son of God) cannot move without current. Miracles happen by the will of God. It is between the one who wants proof as miracle and the God. It is upto to God to respond to him.


Ultimately, the miracle occurs through the medium. The response to this answer must be from God. I am not claiming that I have done the miracle. I explained it clearly in My work the ‘Mahima-Yamuna’. I only act as a mike. I am not the creator of the knowledge or miracle. I am just an amplifier or mike and He is the speaker.


Sometime back, one day Shri Lakshman, Mumbai, after reading the knowledge given by Me, telephoned in the night around 10 pm. He asked Me that he has a desire to experience scent of lotus flower as a miracle from Me. I replied to him that you want to test Me whether when you ask this, will it happen or not. I told him why you should go down to such a low level. After this conversation, he kept the receiver back. Immediately for next one hour, he was immersed in deep scent (in the measures of buckets poured on to his head) even after he reached his house. His mother also experienced the scent. At last, unable to bear the scent, he telephoned Me to stop the scent. I stopped it. In this case, God responded to Him. It depends on the will of God.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:47:23 AM
In that sense, of course, he is wrong.

However, he may just have a poor understanding of what Jesus DID tell us:  namely that we should treat everyone we encounter *as if* they are Him - i.e., "whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto Me."

In that case, EVERYONE we meet is the "incarnation of Jesus", as to how we treat them.

What you are reffering i will explain. GOd loves His devotees like anything. Jesus really love His disciples very much. His disciples left everything for Him and was following Him and worked for His mission of divine knowledge propagation. If  you serve such disciples of Human incarnation, you are indirectly serving God only, God will be immensely pleased. If you give food to such devotees of GOd, God will be very happy. If you give food to present human form of GOd, you are giving food to God directly since He is eating it directly.

Thus service done to God in human form and His devotees will be taken as a great thing in the eyes of God. Like wise if you abuse God in human form and His devotees, the punishment will be severe.

God advised to love even enemy. Jesus preached it. What is the reson for such preaching. The reason is that if you love other people and consider them as your dear and near then in effect you are conquereing your jealosy and egoism towards other co-human beings. When you are matured in this, that is serving others as yourself, then when God in huamn form also comes to you, you will respect Him. Thus you will be eligible to recognise Him, even though He appears in the form an ordinary human being. EGO and JEALOSY are the main two factors which prevent one from recognising GOd in human form. Hence the preaching that one should love others as oneself is a training to remove Jealosy and Egoism.....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 12:13:37 PM

First, by what methods do we determine who is the present Incarnation? According to your website YOU are the present Incarnation, but Sathya Sai Baba also claims this, along with many others. How am I to determine if you or Sai Baba is the present Incarnation? What about those who in fact do not claim this for themselves, but whom their followers claim or at least speculate they are the present Incarnation, like Ammachi? I would think she might actually be a better fit as as far as I know she doesn't claim this herself, but rather her followers claim it. That brings me to my second issue/problem. I am skeptical of anyone who comes right out and says, "I am an Incarnation of God, worship and serve me!" This is at best a sign that that individual has not yet shed him or herself of the ego, (and thus cannot be God) at worst, well who knows, the worst could be a lot of different things to different people.


This is very interesing argument. Who is Human incarnation, Sai baba is also there, others are also there. Then how to find the human incarnation.

The Human incarnation which suits to your level is the Human incarnation for you. Same God exists in many human incarnations at the same time to cater to devotees of different levels. If you go to Sai baba, He mainly preaches about loving others, serving others, doing social service etc. He do not preach that He is God Himself many. What is the reason. At lower level path of loving or direct service cannot be introduced publically. It is not a public program, because majority of the people are at very low level and God has to preach at a lower level to them so that they can be uplifted to a higher level. THis does not mean that God is incapable. God is very much capable, but the devotees are not very much capable to understand higher divine knoweldge. Thus when Sai baba preaches that He is the present human form of GOd and if He preaches social service it means that it cater to that level of devotees to whome such preaching suits so that their ego and jealosy towards co-human being are controlled and over a period eliminated.

At the highest level, God preaches true divine knoweldge and He preaches His personal service in His mission of divine knowledge proapgation. Yes, this is very very tough preaching. Then true colour of people comes out. They will have millions of question. First question is: How this ordinary fellow who is just looking like is God? Second why GOd need service? All these practical question will arise in plenty. Thus at the higher level there will be only very few direct devotees of God in huamn form who preaches the path of loving service to God.

Generally the preaching at the higher level is misunderstood by the masses. Jesus preached mainly (Pravrutti: Social service) to masses. Because masses cannot digest higher level of divine knoweldge. Mainly they were behind bread and getting cure etc. They were not for Him but for His power and use it for their personal purpose. Thus such people are underserving due to their over attachment to world and little attachment to God. Hence if Jesus preached Nivrutti (loving practical service to God in Human form) these people could not digest. Thus to such people He acted like a messenger of GOd only and preach only Pravrutti. But to disciples He preached the path of Nivrutti which invovles lot of sacrifice:

Luke—14:26 to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.



Such preaching if done to massess then masses will run away there and there itself, with out any delay. Hence He preached such high level truth to His disciples only. He also revealed to St.Peter that He is the God Himself (Christ) and strictly prohibited him not to tell to other. What is the reason, if peter says that Jesus is God in human form to ordinary people then ordinary people will tell that Jesus is a mad person. How can He be God? All such question will come due to their undeservingness. To such people Nivrutti cannot be preached. Actually due to this only Jesus was crucified.

The people could not even understand the concept of Human incarnation of God, and they crucified Jesus for the reason that He claimed Himself as God.

Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which GOD and Son of God is mingled homogeneously.

Generally, incarnation of God is not interested in masses. Generally, people are in wrong route only. They want to exploit God for their personal solution. They do not come for learning the real spiritual knowledge and serve God without any aspiration. Nobody comes to God with this aim in mind. If the human incarnation encourages that wrong route, several people come to Him, then he must not be a human incarnation because God in human form is not fond of fame of masses. He is not fond of fame if God is really in that human body.

He has already enjoyed lot of fame. Will He be fond of masses and fame? No. He wants to guide the correct people in the correct path. For that purpose, He comes and not just to attract masses and get the fame etc. If such effort is done, surely he is not God. He is only a soul because the soul is always fond of fame. He has not tasted the fame already. However, God has tasted enough fame. Hence, any action of God will not be towards the fame. His action will be only to guide the people in the correct path. When His concentration is like that, generally masses will not be around Him. Rama and Krishna were not mass personalities. Similarly, Shankara. Shankara never drew masses. He only debated with scholars.


Therefore, it is not a question of mass attraction but it is the question of leading the people in the true path. When He concentrates in leading the people in the true path, generally, people will not like Him. So, there will not be masses around Him. There will not be fame. But, God is not perturbed because He has enough fame. In fact, He was bored with the fame. Therefore, His tendency will not be towards fame and attraction of masses. His tendency will always be only to give the correct guidance. In that case, generally, the real incarnation of God will not be after fame. That is why the incarnation of Datta means Guru Datta, Guru means preacher. Preacher always sticks to the truth. If He sticks to the truth, the people will be less. He does not bother because He is not fond of fame. He is not a politician, who draws or attracts the masses.

Thus the human incarnation who suits to you depends on your level. First you have to hear the divine knoweldge of Human incarnation and decide whether He is God or not from His divine knowledge itself by analysing it.

Human incarnation at the top most level preaches truth which is always harsh.

Datta is called as Unmatta Datta, which means that Datta is mad. The reason for this is that He gives the absolute divine knowledge from His absolute state, which is the absolute reality. In that state, every thing except Him is relatively real including the souls. In this state He is called as Nirguna Datta, which means that He is in the state of absolute reality without any relative reality.

 The entire creation including the souls is a relative reality only and is just His imagination or quality or feeling (Guna) only. The guna is a property, which is not independent and depends on its substratum (Guni) only. Such substratum is God or Para Brahman who is far from imagination.

The knowledge radiating from that state is absolute truth, which cannot be digested by human beings who are in the lowest layer called as Maya. Therefore, Datta looks like a mad fellow whose statements are beyond the normal digestion.

 Shri Rama Krishna Parama Hamsa was going to Panchavati for meditation and was in that top state. A newly married person told Him that his wife is hindering him from participating in the spiritual discussion (Satsanga). Immediately Parama Hamsa told him just to divorce his wife. He was shocked. For the plane of normal human beings such knowledge looks like the statements of a mad person. In fact, the souls are mad of the plane of lower relative reality. For mad people, a wise person is mad relatively.



Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 12:22:37 PM


What of the great teachers on non-duality which says God is every where and in each of us?

I will give explanation for this. There is a brach of philosophy called advaita in which they say that every body is God. This is very good argument so that all people become attracted to such path, since the path is very easy and one can become GOd without any effort at all!!


Shankara, preached Advaita mainly to uplift Atheists who existed at that point of time when He came. These atheists could not digest a God other than themselves. Hence God in the form of Shankara came and preached that every body is God, by this these Atheist began love every body since if they are God then they should exhibit the properties of GOd like kindness, loving, helping others etc. By this atheist started loving others.


Shankras disciples also started saying they are also God!. When the disciples of Sankara thought that they are also the Lord, Sankara swallowed the molten lead and asked the disciples to do the same. Then they fell on the feet of Sankara. Then Sankara told "Shivah Kevaloham", which means that only He is Shiva. The word Kevala (only) is important here. Sankara while taking bath in the ocean at Puri told "Oh! Lord! Though the qualitative identity is in between us, the quantitative difference exists. The water is common in both the sea and the wave like the pure awareness in the soul and super soul. But the quantitative difference exists and one should not forget that the entire wave is in the sea but the entire sea is not in the wave".

This is stated as a message for the sake of ordinary soul. These Advaita Scholars filter all the differentiating points and finally get the common point filtered down into the beaker as the filtrate. The differentiating points are the residue on the filter paper and the filtered common point is in the downward beaker. They see only the beaker but not the filter paper. Therefore, the whole spiritual path is twisted and confused almost all the human beings.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Jetavan on October 30, 2010, 12:30:56 PM

 Thus Jesus comes in human form in every generation so that you can prove your love to Him practically. Jesus is a practical God not theoretical God. A practical God see the practical aspect of your love. Your prayer forms a very little fraction of your love to God, remaining part is the practical service you do to the present human form of Jesus.

Since God does not change, and His message is indeed universal it doesn't matter (according to Hindu teaching) if I am a devotee of Jesus, krishna, Sathya Sai Baba or Ammachi because they are all teaching the same thing anyways.
That's probably overstating it a bit. There are many traditions within Hinduism that would claim that one particular teaching is in fact the most comprehensive teaching. So, if one wants to worship God in the fullest way, then there is one best way to do that.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Jetavan on October 30, 2010, 12:35:24 PM
I'm intrigued by your knowledge of Hinduism, NP.  Frankly it's a religion I know little about.

Could you perhaps recommend a good basic book about it? Thanks!
I would recommend a commentary on the Vedas and Upanishads (http://himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/vedic_experience/VEIndex.html) by the Catholic priest Raimon Panikkar, who had a Spanish Catholic father and a Hindu mother (or was it a Spanish Catholic mother and a Hindu father?).

Panikkar's book is so highly regarded by many Hindus themselves, that a Hindu website (http://himalayanacademy.com/) has a copy of the book free, online (http://himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/vedic_experience/VEIndex.html). I personally find Panikkar to be a Christian who deeply understands, and appreciates, the Hindu tradition -- undoubtedly due to his own personal Hindu heritage.

Panikkar's commentary is huge. You can pretty jump in on any section that interests you.

There's also a Hindu-Christian (http://himalayanacademy.com/basics/point/) comparison, prepared by the Himalayan Academy and the editors at Christianity Today.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 12:37:06 PM

 Jesus never claimed such importance for himself, but rather when someone came to him saying "good teacher" Jesus replied, "Why do you call me good, only God is good!" Yes, we believe Jesus was God Incarnate, but He claimed no glory for himself.

That is a good point. I will explain.

A rich person came to Jesus. He was very well established in Pravrutti (like obeying all the laws of God etc). But He was very rich person. Even though he is very good person, he is not given salvation. Jesus invited him for that. But due to his over attachemnt to wealth name fame etc he could not accepts Jesus invitation, which inovles lot of PRACTICAL SACRIFICE then and there itself infront of Jesus.


Even though that person is a very good justice following person, he could not identify Jesus as God Himself. But that sinner lady identified Jesus as God Himself and practically brought very costly scent and applied on His body. That lady did not do any social service. She knew that God is even higher than soceity. Even some of the diciplse of Jesus critisised and recommended social service to her rather than serviing Jesus the Human form of God. She recognised Jesus as God in Human form and loved Him and shown the love PRACTICALLY by sacrifice of money she possed. Due to her practical love which is even more than love to soceity, quickly her sins were taken upon Jesus body and Jesus suffered with pain for her, for such a real devotee who recognised the God in human form standing infront of here, looking like a mere human being.

Ofcourse, Jesus do not need such service, but Jesus allowed the service to give satisfaction to her. Her love to God was practically and the result was also practical by Jesus, Jesus took the sins on His body and suffered and cleared her debts.


One should remember that she do not aspire to remove her sins using Jesus, rather she loved Jesus. Loving Jesus means loving GOd in Human form.

But such thing will not happen with that rich person. Jesus did not tell that He is God in human form to that person. Why. Because even though that person was very good, he cannot digest such higher truth Human incarnation or God coming in human form. He considered Jesus as a mere guru or teacher for some advice. He did not consider Him as God Himself.

Hence according to the level of that person Jesus told to passify His jealosy and egoism, Jesus told, why are you calling Me as a good, only God is good. Jesus used or acted like this so that He is only a guru and God is separately existing some where; Jesus gave such notion to that person, because his level deservers such knoweldge only. He did not tell I am God to that rich person.

But He quickly seen that his attchment to welath is more than his attachment to God. Hence, He attacked at his highest attachment which is wealth. But that rich person could not follow Jesus practically and leave the wealth and follow then human incarnation practically.

Since Jesus is a practical God, the rich man could not get salvation. How can he get salvation, when his attachemnt to wealth is more than his attachment to God.He is bound and did not get salvation even though Jesus invited him.......
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 12:43:28 PM
I'm intrigued by your knowledge of Hinduism, NP.  Frankly it's a religion I know little about.

Could you perhaps recommend a good basic book about it? Thanks!

You can read my divine knoweldge which covers manily, Hinduism and Christainity.

The main aspect is about GOd coming in human form in every generation.

I request you to first read the bellow book which is very few in page numbers you can quickly read t:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8f300f06-1b7b-4b79-82d5-8ab1755775f6/Some-jewels-of-divine-knoweldge


Discourses:

 http://www.esnips.com/doc/76b372e0-6a84-4061-80a6-a35ae4c2cd66/Divine-Discourses-Vol-1
  http://www.esnips.com/doc/721c7010-0b18-4107-ba9e-ca837c188a30/Divine-Discourses-Vol--2

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/34f6104b-5ef7-4483-bf45-1d1e7b964f56/Divine-Discourses-Vol-3

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/267ed374-c01a-4581-9f85-fd638b911836/Divine-Discourses-Vol-4

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/78a84713-9718-4649-b842-b3a943e143f1/Divine-Discourses-Vol-5

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/12591fb0-d34c-4e9e-822f-5dc262629c08/Divine-Discourses-Vol-6

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/1028ab90-2047-4e7b-ac3f-20238a42cd52/Divine-Discourses-Vol-7

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/76f61d55-c22d-41af-8ed6-c8019c0b5816/Divine-Discourse---VIII

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/f2cf6d69-3798-4ef8-a04e-8ef7617112b9/Divine-Discourses-Vol-9

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/ed1dc3ab-a1e0-4c4f-a674-f3100fafc0db/Divine-Discourses-Vol-10

http://www.esnips.com/doc/39acff65-410c-460d-a649-fcf170ab70f0/Parabrahma-Sutras

Free  MP3 Bhajans (http://dattaswami.blog.co.uk/?paged=2)

 http://www.esnips.com/doc/85bbd312-1562-419c-86a3-6ee985a2d457/Mahima-Yamuna


Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 12:48:10 PM
I'm intrigued by your knowledge of Hinduism, NP.  Frankly it's a religion I know little about.

Could you perhaps recommend a good basic book about it? Thanks!

U-Tube Videos

http://in.youtube.com/user/Dattaswami

Quotes:

http://www.gurusfeet.com/quotes/1127

Blogs:

http://www.gurusfeet.com/blogs/dattaswami2

http://dattaswami.sulekha.com/blog/posts.htm
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 12:54:04 PM
I am skeptical of anyone who comes right out and says, "I am an Incarnation of God, worship and serve me!"

Your fundamental questions is why to serve Present Human form of God. Is it not sufficient to serve past human incarnations. You can never serve an invisible God and past human incarnations. Let me expalin about Pravrutti and Nivrutti then your piont will get cleared.

Pravrutti is the field of worldly matters involving bonds with your body and family members, which is limited to the present birth only. Nivrutti is the field of spiritual matters involving bonds with God and devotees, which is related to every birth of the soul continuously. The basic frame work is the same in both the fields. In both the fields, knowledge, devotion, work, sacrifice and the final fruit for sacrifice are common. In Pravrutti the knowledge gives the identification of your self and your family members. You will distinguish your family members as your dear and near from the outsiders to whom you are neutral. Similarly in Nivrutti the knowledge gives the identification of human form of God and identification of good deserving devotees and they are distinguished from the general lot of humanity.

The second step is devotion which is nothing but intensive love. In Pravrutti, once you have recognized your family members, you will develop intensive love on them. Similarly, in Nivrutti the devotion is developed on living human form of God and other devotees. Therefore, in Pravrutti the goal is yourself and your family members.  In the Nivrutti the goal is living human form of God and devotees. In both, the goal is a living human forms only and not non-living objects. The need of non-living objects is also realized when these objects are used for developing the concept of devotion.

Let us take an example in Pravrutti. A person was served for a long time by a non-living car used as vehicle. He does not want to sell the car even though it is not working. The non-living car does not recognize the value shown by him. But still, the concept of gratefulness to long service is built-up in the mind of the owner. Similarly in Nivrutti, the concept of devotion is built up based on non-living items like statues and photos. It is true that neither the car nor the statue or photo recognizes nor responds in any way. But inspite of that defect, the concept of gratitude and the concept of devotion are built up in this model based training. Except this advantage of building up the good concepts, no practical fruit is possible in this stage.

Question: Car is a non-living item and does not represent any body. But the statue or photo is a representative model of omniscient God, who recongnises the concept and awards the devotee with a practical fruit. Therefore, there is a difference between the examples of Pravrutti and Nivrutti in this aspect.

Answer: We agree with the difference. But there is no difference in the final result. The omniscient God understands well that theoretical devotion alone is built up and not the practical sacrifice or service. (if you do theorectical service only to past human incarnation)Therefore, the omniscient God will not reward the theoretical devotion with a practical fruit. A foolish king may reward a fellow on hearing that he worshiped the photo of the king. Since God is omniscient, in your own words, God is very careful to reward the practical service only. Hence in building up the concept and in not rewarding the practical fruit, both the examples are similar. For us both these points are important which are not disturbed at all by the difference raised by you.

In this stage of building up the concepts using the inanimate objects, which is called as Pratika-Upasanam or model worship, the generation of a strong feeling and its intensification take place and both these are also important. The strong feeling or mind alone can generate the practical service. Though the concept is built up with the help of inert items, the concept is applied to living beings only. After developing the concept of gratefulness to service with the help of the inert car, the owner starts applying this intensified concept to the living people who have served him for a long time. Such application alone brings the response.

 Similarly, after developing the concept of devotion in Nivrutti with the help of statues, the strong devotion should be applied to the human form of the Lord and the devoted human beings. The practical devotion is also trained with the help of non-living items. The owner daily washes the car and keeps it in a covered place with utmost care. This is the practical service to be applied to the living beings.

Similarly the practical service done to the statues is to be applied to God in human form and devotees. Without application to living form, no fruit can be expected and even the response is impossible. The worship of the living human incarnation and the living devotees is called as Sakshaat-Upasanam or direct worship. The model worship must be transformed into direct worship as early as possible for attaining fruit. Otherwise, remaining constantly in the model worship is totally meaningless.  In the institute of teacher-training, the candidate is expected to teach certain model classes for which the trainee is not paid salary. After the training, the candidate teaches the actual classes in the institution and gets salary.
 
After developing the concept of love to family in Pravrutti and devotion to God in Nivrutti, one has to enter the third stage of doing work by which the fruits are earned. In Pravrutti the work and the fruits of work are sacrificed to yourself and your family members. Such work is called as mere karma. In Nivrutti the same work and fruits of work are sacrificed to serve the human incarnation of the Lord, His devotees and for His divine mission to uplift the world. The same work in the field of Nivrutti is called as Karma Yoga. There is no difference between work and fruit of work, because the fruit of work is a product of the work only. A saint can sacrifice work only, since he does not earn any fruit for his work. Therefore, Karma Sanyasa or sacrifice of work is meant for his case only. The word Sanyasa indicates this point. A retired father without earning tries to sacrifice work by taking the grand children to the school etc. His case is like the case of a saint in Nivrutti. A house holder is capable of Karma Sanyasa and Karma Phala Tyaga or sacrifice of fruit of work. A father takes his children to the school (Karma Sanyasa) and also spends on their education from his earnings (Karma Phala Tyaga) in Pravrutti. Similar is the case of a house holder in Nivrutti, proceeding in the spiritual path.
   
The final step in both Pravrutti and Nivrutti is sacrifice of work or fruit of work or both. The sacrifice alone can bring the fruit in both. If you earn the fruit by work and bury all that in a pot, the fruit is not attained, because you have stopped in the third stage of work only. Therefore, the final stage is sacrifice, which alone can bring the fruit in both Pravrutti and Nivrutti. Even to yourself, you have to sacrifice the money (fruit of work) to maintain your basic life. If you do not sacrifice to yourself, even your life is endangered. Therefore, knowledge, devotion, work and sacrifice are the four stages in Pravrutti as well as Nivrutti. Pravrutti and Nivrutti oppose each other if yourself and your family members are not devoted to God. Even the distant bonds in Pravrutti (relatives) are strong and not to speak of close bonds (wife, children, parents, brothers and sisters).

Arjuna was unable to cut even the distant bonds in Pravrutti and refused to fight the war in the beginning. Again after some days, when his son died in the war, he refused to fight the war. Thus Arjuna tried to drop from the war in two instances. In the first instance, he tried to sacrifice the wealth (kingdom) for the sake of distant bonds. In the second instance, he tried to leave the war even though he realized it as the work of God for the sake of close bond. The close bond (son) is so powerful that even God was set aside! People are doing lot of corruption even without fearing for the hell for the sake of close bonds! People are selecting a non-merit candidate, since the candidate is their distant relative. If you cannot sacrifice even the distant bond, you have not understood even the first chapter of Gita. How can you understand the other chapters of Gita, which are at far higher level?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 01:00:56 PM
God will feel happy if the souls are happy even if human incarnation is not recognised

Even if the human incarnation is not recognized and not served, God will feel happy if the souls are happy. The father feels happy if the children are settled and peaceful living with happiness, even if they are not recognizing and serving Him when He comes to their house. Therefore God will not mistake you if you do not recognize and serve Him when He comes to your world in human form. He will feel happy if you are living with happiness. Therefore, He thinks about the ways by which you will be settled and live with happiness. He will not mention about the duty to serve Him when you are disturbed in this world.

 Arjuna was very much disturbed and therefore the Lord started with self-attainment (Atma Yoga) only, which is the way to attain happiness and peace. He did not start with the sacrifice or service to God (Paramatma Yoga). When the child is disturbed, it needs the help from the parents in the form of sacrifice of work or sacrifice of wealth. Initially the parents help the child by doing both these but this cannot be continuous. As the child grows, he or she has to stand on own legs and settle in life. After such settled life only, the parents expect the child to serve them.

Similarly the soul has to attain peace and happiness standing on its own legs and this is the second chapter of Gita in which the self-sufficiency is to be achieved without any dependence. In Atma Yoga, the Lord in the second chapter of Gita taught about the self-realization which is the attainment of peace and happiness with the self-effort. When the life is settled, the issues are expected to serve the parents by sacrificing work (Karma Sanyasa) and by sacrificing fruit of work (Karma Phala Tyaga). The parents are not in need of any wealth. Still they are the owners of the property. They are only happy if your love towards them is proved through the above-mentioned practical sacrifice.

 Similarly the Lord is not in need of your service. The Lord desires to taste your love and feels happy through such sacrifice. In fact you are earning only due to the sacrifice of parents. Similarly all your wealth belongs to the Lord only. But the dualism is maintained because the taste of love exists only in the ignorance that is dualism. You have earned some money. The flesh of your body that is working is from your mother. The talent by which you are earning is from the wealth of your father. If you realize this and serve the parents, there is no real taste of love. Similarly the parents also realize that truth, there is no taste of love to them also. They can enjoy the love of their children only when they think that the children are sacrificing their hard-earned money in the parent’s service.

 Similarly, if the parents think that the earnings of the children are only due to their help, they cannot enjoy the real love. Therefore, the real love is enjoyed only in the ignorance (Avidya). But if the children became ungrateful, then the parents have to educate them with the truth (Vidya). The Lord says in Gita that both Vidya and Avidya are created by Him only which are meaningful in their own contexts (Mattah Smrutir…..). Thus the Lord preaches the Atma Yoga in the beginning which is the attainment of peace and happiness by self-realization and then only proceeded with Paramatma Yoga which is the field of service and sacrifice to the Lord after settlement. If Gita stops with the second chapter, the story ends with Atma Yoga only which is the settlement of life of the children. If the story stops there, it would be Gita preached to the ungrateful ghosts and demons. Therefore, the other sixteen chapters of Gita concentrated on Paramatma-Yoga which is the sacrifice and service to the God when He comes to this world of human beings in human form.

 But if you see the stories of human incarnation which is the same as that of the parents visiting the houses of their well settled children, the behaviour of the children proves worse than the nature of even the wild animals. Jesus was crucified! Krishna was shot dead! Sankara was killed by black magic!

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 01:02:58 PM
You cannot become Para Brahman (The Absolute God)


My divine knowledge previously spoken to devotees:


You can become Krishna or Jesus(Human Incarnation of God) but you cannot become Para Brahman because even Krishna or Jesus did not become Para Brahman. No alive wire is transformed in to current directly. To become Para Brahman is the impossible highest goal and this is a defect even in Krishna or Jesus. If you want to become greater than Krishna or Jesus, this means that your ambition is always endless. Therefore, Satguru reveals the truth only when the deservingness is completed. If you desire to become greater than Krishna or Jesus, then the best medicine for you is only to say that you can never become Krishna or Jesus. Therefore, to reveal this divine secret that you can become Krishna is always hidden by Me till now.

When the goal is impossible it is not a goal at all. Even in Krishna or Jesus God pervaded all over the body and soul of Krishna or Jesus and God entered Krishna or Jesus like the current in the alive wire. The word Ashritam in the verse means entry of God into human being and not becoming human being. It is clarified that entry of current into wire does not mean that current became the wire (Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam….Gita). From the angle of this point only, Mohammad said that God can never become the human being. Jesus, who was just before Mohammad, was misunderstood in this point only and was crucified. For all practical purposes the alive wire is current and similarly for all worship and service the human incarnation is God for devotees. There is no other way than this to serve and experience God directly without the medium (Nanyah Panthah….Veda).
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: mike on October 30, 2010, 01:06:32 PM
You write funny things.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Aindriú on October 30, 2010, 01:08:34 PM
You write funny things.
:D

Seriously though, stop hogging the shrooms.  >:(
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 01:13:19 PM
You write funny things.
How can it be funny!
Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which GOd and Son of God exists together. God is not convereted into Son of God or vice versa. But when Son of gOD is alive in this world He is God Himself because God is alive in Him all the time, Hence He is God Himself.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 01:21:20 PM


Is this the person to whom you are pointing, dear Swami?



When I said that God is in my human body, who is delivering the spiritual knowledge, my reference is my devotees who strongly believe me in spite of my several objections. My statements vary according to the level of the devotees. Some times I say that I am devotee or a messenger to ordinary people. I say that God is in me to the devotees who have partial faith in me. I say that the God pervaded all over my body and became one with me to strong devotees who have reached the climax of the faith. Jesus also told like this to different levels of devotees.

He claimed himself as messenger of God to lower devotees. To the middle level He claimed that He is son of the God. To the top devotees He claimed that He and His father are one and the same. You should not transfer one statement from one level to the other level. In my case, for your information, I say every one that I am just a devotee of God. But the devotees forced me with their opinions and finally I responded according to their firmness of faith. Even there I tried my level best to distort their faith through several tests. Therefore, you cannot generalise my statements to all the humanity. In fact you cannot generalise the statements of Jesus also to the entire humanity because all the human beings have not believed Jesus. Only some believed and His statements relate to such fraction of devotees only.


Real human incarnation will not say that He is God

   Even the real human incarnation will not say that it is God. Krishna never said that He is God except on one specified occasion, which is preaching Gita to Arjuna. The human incarnation is a two component system in one phase. It is like the alloy of Gold and Copper existing in single phase. When God enters a liberated soul, which is a human being, the human incarnation results. The human incarnation appears as an ordinary human being only. When copper is alloyed with a trace of gold, it appears as copper only. Unless you see it through a powerful microscope, you will not be able to find out the existence of gold in it. Similarly, the human incarnation appears as human being only and unless you are capable of intensive spiritual analysis with the help of scriptures, you will not be able to find out the existence of God in the human incarnation.

Even in the  human incarnation, the human being continuously exhibits its own inherent characteristics like birth, death, illness, thirst, hunger, sex, sleep etc., for all practical purposes and one in millions only will be able to recognize the God in it as said in Gita (Kashchitmam…). This type of concept is required because the human beings should be able to approach freely the human incarnation without anxiety and tension to clarify all the doubts. The human behavior in the human incarnation puts down the tension since you treat him as a co-human being only.


Hence I am not tell you that I am the present Human form of God!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: stashko on October 30, 2010, 01:23:28 PM
I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...

Jesus wouldn't of Done that, because he came into the world  to redeem and not to destroy.......

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 01:25:27 PM
The significance of present human incarnation


When you read the scriptures, which are the discourses of past human incarnations, you will get so many doubts demanding clarification. If the original Lord is not available, we have to depend on other fellow human beings for clarifications. Suppose you are studying a correspondence course. When you get a doubt, you have to depend on your classmate, who is studying the course similarly. He is not competent to clarify your doubts and you will be poisoned by his wrong interpretations. Suppose you are studying the same course in a college and the lecturer is explaining in the class. Whenever you get a doubt, you can ask him then and there and you will surely get the correct interpretation at the correct moment.

 The clarification is important at the correct moment because without clarification the latter part of the lecture may not be understood or may be misunderstood. Such a facility does not exist with past human incarnations and past scriptures. In this light alone, Jesus modified all the Old Testament and gave the correct interpretation as and when people asked Him questions and doubts. If Jesus is not in the present generation, He must be blamed for being partial towards that generation alone. However God is impartial and therefore comes in every generation.

The present generation is very much blessed because of the facility of computer technology. You can clarify your doubts through this computer system without any strain of traveling to the human incarnation in person. All the divine preachers in this world are in contact with God and are doing the divine preaching to various levels of devotees. Their preachings may be mixed with some ignorance and it is not their fault because such mixing with ignorance in various proportions is required for various lower levels of human beings. The complete and pure knowledge without any trace of ignorance can be grasped only by a very few highest devotees. The number of advanced research students studying under a professor is always very small. Therefore the direct human incarnation is recognized by a very few top level devotees only.

The number of elementary school students are always many and the number of elementary school teachers are also many. As you rise in the level, the number of students and the number of professors become lesser and lesser. Therefore you should not aspire for a large number of followers. For the direct human incarnation, there will be only a very few deserving devotees of such a top level. But such top devotees are spread here and there all over the world. Therefore there is a necessity for propagating the top most divine knowledge of the top most human incarnation, all over the world. But the number of followers will not be high but will be the very least. Jesus said that His path is very narrow and that only very few people travel on it.

 Lord Krishna has told in the Gita that only one in millions can perfectly understand Him (Kashchit Mam Vetti…). Therefore the aim of the topmost human incarnation is not to have a large number of followers, since it is impossible. The aim is only to see that the topmost knowledge reaches the few deserving devotees, who are spread all over the world here and there. If you wish to have a large number of followers, then divine knowledge has to be adulterated with ignorance. The naked truth should not be exposed in such a case. Diamonds are always in few in number whereas gravel stones are many.

The lower level devotees and the lower level school teachers should not be criticized. The levels of school, college and university are obviously required due to the existence of human beings in the corresponding levels. Therefore you should not criticize the students in schools and colleges. Today you are a student of a university. But one day you were in the school and in the college. Without the guidance of the school teacher and the college lecturer you could not have entered the university. The direct human incarnation of the Lord is the topmost professor, who has a few post graduate and research level students. God, being the head of the university level in spirituality, the schools and colleges are affiliated to the university and work under His leadership. It is the huge system of divine preachers.

The school teachers and the college lecturers are working under the guidance and will of that Professor alone. The system is split to suit the various levels but there is no split in the preachers. The whole system of divine preachers is perfectly working due to the grace of that Supreme Preacher. There is no split in the preachers. Mixing up ignorance with knowledge is inevitable and is done according to the level of the students.

There is only one Supreme Preacher in a generation and He will be covering all the preachers and religions under the concept of Universal Spirituality. Some lower preachers may oppose this concept and it is not the fault of those preachers. Since the students of some lower levels do not agree to this concept, those preachers have to proceed according to their psychology. The supreme preacher knows this fact and only smiles, if any preacher of a lower level opposes this concept.

It is by the internal wish of Supreme Preacher only, that preacher opposes Him so that he can have a grip on his students who are of a lower level and do not like this concept. It is a very long journey to transform the entire Universe and make it realize this concept of Universal Spirituality. But one day or other this divine goal will be achieved and the entire world will be like one family with one Divine Father. The various cultures and religions need not disappear. But the innermost single continuous thread of the garland of gems with various colors will be realized by every human being of this universe. Such a state is called as WORLD PEACE.

Please remember that the divine preachers in this entire Universe are not at all split. They appear as if they are split in order to have a grip on their corresponding students, who are really split.

All these divine preachers are connected by their innermost souls and are working by the grace of that Supreme preacher, who is the Lord in human form. The difference in the preachers is only apparent to satisfy the different psychologies of the followers. One preacher may criticize another preacher in order to satisfy his followers but all these divine preachers are internally united and are working on the single program of transforming this entire world to realize the Universal Spirituality, which is the Absolute Truth like the one Absolute God.

All the original preachers like Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad etc. are brilliant diamonds and all their followers are like black pieces of charcoal. The diamond and charcoal are made of the same carbon atoms. Similarly the preacher and the follower are human beings. In the diamond there is a regular crystal structure. The charcoal is amorphous, without any crystal structure. Thus the correct logical interpretation makes the scripture shine like a brilliant diamond. The same scripture without regular logical interpretation becomes a black charcoal.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: PeterTheAleut on October 30, 2010, 01:30:25 PM
I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...
Stashko, where did you read/hear this? If you're going to criticize Hinduism, which is perfectly right to do, you might want to at least make sure you get your facts straight. So where did you get this bit of info?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: stashko on October 30, 2010, 01:38:25 PM
I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...
Stashko, where did you read/hear this? If you're going to criticize Hinduism, which is perfectly right to do, you might want to at least make sure you get your facts straight. So where did you get this bit of info?

It maybe In Maharabat series ,that was Aired On U-tube.....It's been a while since i watched it...
Conn---what amased me though, was that Bodies were just considered vehicles for the soul and weren't important ,or considered temples of the Holy Spirit. but just to be discarded and you get another one in your reincarnation...

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Aindriú on October 30, 2010, 01:40:43 PM
You write funny things.
How can it be funny!
Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which GOd and Son of God exists together. God is not convereted into Son of God or vice versa. But when Son of gOD is alive in this world He is God Himself because God is alive in Him all the time, Hence He is God Himself.

Because Christians don't believe the Son of God was the son because he was incarnate. He was the son prior to incarnation, during incarnation, and after incarnation. He is a part of the triune God.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: PeterTheAleut on October 30, 2010, 01:51:35 PM
I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...
Stashko, where did you read/hear this? If you're going to criticize Hinduism, which is perfectly right to do, you might want to at least make sure you get your facts straight. So where did you get this bit of info?

It maybe In Maharabat series ,that was Aired On U-tube.....It's been a while since i watched it...
"It has to be true! I watched it on youtube!" ::)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: stashko on October 30, 2010, 02:05:37 PM
Its a mega Production from india about their god Krishna ,that was aired with english subtittles on u-tube....The series goes from One to One Hundred maybe  more  .... ;D



I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...
Stashko, where did you read/hear this? If you're going to criticize Hinduism, which is perfectly right to do, you might want to at least make sure you get your facts straight. So where did you get this bit of info?

It maybe In Maharabat series ,that was Aired On U-tube.....It's been a while since i watched it...
"It has to be true! I watched it on youtube!" ::)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 02:19:38 PM
Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

I have already answered, in other posts...Please refer it.....
I haven't read your many other posts.  I don't have the time.  So, perhaps, you could answer my question, rather than blather on.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on October 30, 2010, 02:28:27 PM
Hugh Morris MUST be a deity!  He's flaunted the warnings and forum rules waay more than I thought was humanly possible and he's still here!  Viva Hugh Morris!  Viva Hugh Morris!  Viva Hugh Morris!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on October 30, 2010, 02:32:44 PM
Data Pastrami, aka Hugh Morris, now has us attacking each other all the while flaunting his warning status and ignoring forum rules.  This cat is either an uber clever dude or he really is a deity.  My vote goes for deity!  Viva Hugh Morris!  Viva Data Pastrami!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 30, 2010, 02:42:17 PM
This is starting to get a little ridiculous.  >:( You aren't here to ask questions, nor is your mind open to any critique regarding your views. It appears that you don't even care about what the Orthodox point of view is regarding your 'belief system'. You are here simply to proselytize, not to learn. Admit it already.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 30, 2010, 02:43:39 PM
I am skeptical of anyone who comes right out and says, "I am an Incarnation of God, worship and serve me!"

Your fundamental questions is why to serve Present Human form of God. Is it not sufficient to serve past human incarnations. You can never serve an invisible God and past human incarnations. Let me expalin about Pravrutti and Nivrutti then your piont will get cleared.

Pravrutti is the field of worldly matters involving bonds with your body and family members, which is limited to the present birth only. Nivrutti is the field of spiritual matters involving bonds with God and devotees, which is related to every birth of the soul continuously. The basic frame work is the same in both the fields. In both the fields, knowledge, devotion, work, sacrifice and the final fruit for sacrifice are common. In Pravrutti the knowledge gives the identification of your self and your family members. You will distinguish your family members as your dear and near from the outsiders to whom you are neutral. Similarly in Nivrutti the knowledge gives the identification of human form of God and identification of good deserving devotees and they are distinguished from the general lot of humanity.

The second step is devotion which is nothing but intensive love. In Pravrutti, once you have recognized your family members, you will develop intensive love on them. Similarly, in Nivrutti the devotion is developed on living human form of God and other devotees. Therefore, in Pravrutti the goal is yourself and your family members.  In the Nivrutti the goal is living human form of God and devotees. In both, the goal is a living human forms only and not non-living objects. The need of non-living objects is also realized when these objects are used for developing the concept of devotion.

Let us take an example in Pravrutti. A person was served for a long time by a non-living car used as vehicle. He does not want to sell the car even though it is not working. The non-living car does not recognize the value shown by him. But still, the concept of gratefulness to long service is built-up in the mind of the owner. Similarly in Nivrutti, the concept of devotion is built up based on non-living items like statues and photos. It is true that neither the car nor the statue or photo recognizes nor responds in any way. But inspite of that defect, the concept of gratitude and the concept of devotion are built up in this model based training. Except this advantage of building up the good concepts, no practical fruit is possible in this stage.

Question: Car is a non-living item and does not represent any body. But the statue or photo is a representative model of omniscient God, who recongnises the concept and awards the devotee with a practical fruit. Therefore, there is a difference between the examples of Pravrutti and Nivrutti in this aspect.

Answer: We agree with the difference. But there is no difference in the final result. The omniscient God understands well that theoretical devotion alone is built up and not the practical sacrifice or service. (if you do theorectical service only to past human incarnation)Therefore, the omniscient God will not reward the theoretical devotion with a practical fruit. A foolish king may reward a fellow on hearing that he worshiped the photo of the king. Since God is omniscient, in your own words, God is very careful to reward the practical service only. Hence in building up the concept and in not rewarding the practical fruit, both the examples are similar. For us both these points are important which are not disturbed at all by the difference raised by you.

In this stage of building up the concepts using the inanimate objects, which is called as Pratika-Upasanam or model worship, the generation of a strong feeling and its intensification take place and both these are also important. The strong feeling or mind alone can generate the practical service. Though the concept is built up with the help of inert items, the concept is applied to living beings only. After developing the concept of gratefulness to service with the help of the inert car, the owner starts applying this intensified concept to the living people who have served him for a long time. Such application alone brings the response.

 Similarly, after developing the concept of devotion in Nivrutti with the help of statues, the strong devotion should be applied to the human form of the Lord and the devoted human beings. The practical devotion is also trained with the help of non-living items. The owner daily washes the car and keeps it in a covered place with utmost care. This is the practical service to be applied to the living beings.

Similarly the practical service done to the statues is to be applied to God in human form and devotees. Without application to living form, no fruit can be expected and even the response is impossible. The worship of the living human incarnation and the living devotees is called as Sakshaat-Upasanam or direct worship. The model worship must be transformed into direct worship as early as possible for attaining fruit. Otherwise, remaining constantly in the model worship is totally meaningless.  In the institute of teacher-training, the candidate is expected to teach certain model classes for which the trainee is not paid salary. After the training, the candidate teaches the actual classes in the institution and gets salary.
 
After developing the concept of love to family in Pravrutti and devotion to God in Nivrutti, one has to enter the third stage of doing work by which the fruits are earned. In Pravrutti the work and the fruits of work are sacrificed to yourself and your family members. Such work is called as mere karma. In Nivrutti the same work and fruits of work are sacrificed to serve the human incarnation of the Lord, His devotees and for His divine mission to uplift the world. The same work in the field of Nivrutti is called as Karma Yoga. There is no difference between work and fruit of work, because the fruit of work is a product of the work only. A saint can sacrifice work only, since he does not earn any fruit for his work. Therefore, Karma Sanyasa or sacrifice of work is meant for his case only. The word Sanyasa indicates this point. A retired father without earning tries to sacrifice work by taking the grand children to the school etc. His case is like the case of a saint in Nivrutti. A house holder is capable of Karma Sanyasa and Karma Phala Tyaga or sacrifice of fruit of work. A father takes his children to the school (Karma Sanyasa) and also spends on their education from his earnings (Karma Phala Tyaga) in Pravrutti. Similar is the case of a house holder in Nivrutti, proceeding in the spiritual path.
   
The final step in both Pravrutti and Nivrutti is sacrifice of work or fruit of work or both. The sacrifice alone can bring the fruit in both. If you earn the fruit by work and bury all that in a pot, the fruit is not attained, because you have stopped in the third stage of work only. Therefore, the final stage is sacrifice, which alone can bring the fruit in both Pravrutti and Nivrutti. Even to yourself, you have to sacrifice the money (fruit of work) to maintain your basic life. If you do not sacrifice to yourself, even your life is endangered. Therefore, knowledge, devotion, work and sacrifice are the four stages in Pravrutti as well as Nivrutti. Pravrutti and Nivrutti oppose each other if yourself and your family members are not devoted to God. Even the distant bonds in Pravrutti (relatives) are strong and not to speak of close bonds (wife, children, parents, brothers and sisters).

Arjuna was unable to cut even the distant bonds in Pravrutti and refused to fight the war in the beginning. Again after some days, when his son died in the war, he refused to fight the war. Thus Arjuna tried to drop from the war in two instances. In the first instance, he tried to sacrifice the wealth (kingdom) for the sake of distant bonds. In the second instance, he tried to leave the war even though he realized it as the work of God for the sake of close bond. The close bond (son) is so powerful that even God was set aside! People are doing lot of corruption even without fearing for the hell for the sake of close bonds! People are selecting a non-merit candidate, since the candidate is their distant relative. If you cannot sacrifice even the distant bond, you have not understood even the first chapter of Gita. How can you understand the other chapters of Gita, which are at far higher level?


There is only one God: the Holy Trinity.

The Holy Trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son of God, Jesus Christ, was always the Son. He is eternally begotten of His Father.

He was incarnate once and only once. That occurred around 1 AD. He ascended into Heaven around 33 AD.

He left behind His Body, the Church. We know God by meeting Christ in the Church. We interact with Incarnate God when we partake of the Holy Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. (We have no need for other incarnations of God, for the first and only incarnation destroyed death and gave us the Church and the Sacraments.)

Jesus Christ, Incarnate God, will descend once again to earth at the Second and Glorious Coming. The dead will be raised, all mankind will be judged, and Christ will dwell with man eternally in his Kingdom come to earth.

There is no place for other incarnations in Christianity. None. You are wasting your time. From an Orthodox point of view, your claiming to be God is delusional at best, or demonic at worst.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 30, 2010, 02:46:48 PM
He thinks he is God. How can his beliefs possibly be open to critique, in his mind?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 02:49:08 PM
Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

There is a basic fundamental in your question.. Because any body can proclaim himself as God, but how to identify it?

The only identification mark is the true divine knowledge which God alone can preach. Even demons do miracles by they are not God, why because they do not posses divine knoweldge. They got the power to do the miracles from, GOd by doing penance and due to their rigidity, God gave them those powers. God in human form also can perform miracles but He never do it for crowd pulling and fame. THE only point which identify God in human form as God is the divine knowledge He preaches. Then who will decide that that divine knowledge is correct? You yourself, your inner conciousness will tell you this knoweldge is correct or not.

God never preach foolishness. He never tell, follow Me blindly. His divine knowledge is like double edged sword, which cuts the ignorance or doubts of a person. It is like fire which burns the ignorance of us.

Yohanann, came before Jesus. He could not preach the true divine knoweldge , he could only preach the knoweldge with lesser truth and lot of ignorance and it is like water. But Jesus then Human incarnation preached fire. Here fire means true divine knoweldge which removes all our doubts since it contains 100% truth and not polluted at all. Such divine knoweldge removes all our doubts completely and our devotion to GOd will increase and attain a maxiumum....
"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect." ~Mark 13:22
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 03:04:40 PM
Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

According to his website, our new friend is the present Incarnation of God. :)
I was afraid of that.  Reading his tripe gives me a headache.

"But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." ~Matthew 16:23

Hey, dattaswami, the above verse is my God speaking to one of His disciples.  Think how much harsher His words will be for you if you unless you turn away from your pride and repent.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on October 30, 2010, 03:51:59 PM
Para-

a prefix appearing in loanwords from Greek, most often attached to verbs and verbal derivatives, with the meanings “at or to one side of, beside, side by side” ( parabola; paragraph; parallel; paralysis ), “beyond, past, by” ( paradox; paragogue ); by extension from these senses, this prefix came to designate objects or activities auxiliary to or derivative of that denoted by the base word ( parody; paronomasia ), and hence abnormal or defective ( paranoia ), a sense now common in modern scientific coinages ( parageusia; paralexia ). As an English prefix, para- 1  may have any of these senses; it is also productive in the naming of occupational roles considered ancillary or subsidiary to roles requiring more training, or of a higher status, on such models as paramedical  and paraprofessional: paralegal; paralibrarian; parapolice.

Brahman-

The Brahman or Brahma is a breed of Zebu cattle (Bos primigenius indicus), later exported from India to the rest of the world. The main breeds used were Kankrej, Guzerat, Nelore or Ongole and the Gir or Gyr cattle. It is named for the sacred cow of Hinduism.

Data Pastrami,

 Are you saying we cannot get beyond or past a Brahman cow?  Or that we cannot become an abnormal, defective Brahman cow?  Please explain using bullet points and Roberts Rules of Order.  En espanol, por favor.  :)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Jetavan on October 30, 2010, 04:20:14 PM
He thinks he is God. How can his beliefs possibly be open to critique, in his mind?
When a Hindu reads "I am God", he or she would have a very different idea in his or her head, compared to when a Christian reads "I am God".
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on October 30, 2010, 04:50:51 PM
You write funny things.
How can it be funny!
Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which GOd and Son of God exists together. God is not convereted into Son of God or vice versa. But when Son of gOD is alive in this world He is God Himself because God is alive in Him all the time, Hence He is God Himself.

Dattaswami, until you have taken the time to familiarize yourself with Orthodox Christianity- what it teaches, what its practices are, what its spirituality is- I would recommend you stop "preaching" to us and making a fool out of yourself.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Michał on October 30, 2010, 05:32:24 PM
You write funny things.
How can it be funny!
Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which GOd and Son of God exists together. God is not convereted into Son of God or vice versa. But when Son of gOD is alive in this world He is God Himself because God is alive in Him all the time, Hence He is God Himself.

"Your god is wrong."
Ralph Wiggum
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 05:35:56 PM
^You're very confused, aren't you?  It's tough impersonating the Holy Trinity.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 05:43:23 PM
If you're God, tell me where my car keys are.
Hey, you're cutting into my time with the dataguy.  Find your own keys.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Quinault on October 30, 2010, 05:52:15 PM
The love one has for a spouse is completely different than the love one has for a child/children. One is not higher than another, they are simply different. This is why being a single parent is so difficult. You can be a good single parent, but it is not easy. This isn't because the other person is there to help in a hands on way each day (although admittedly that is WONDERFUL). It is difficult because the support one has in a spouse is more than just physical help. It is much more complicated than one can describe. Partnership isn't even a good descriptive word for it. The amount of help that one needs when they lose a spouse is not something that you can lay out in list format to be supplemented with other people/things helping. I can't describe it, I hope someone else will, what you get from a spouse is not something as simple as "love" it is so much more. If all I needed was love, I wouldn't have missed my husband when he was deployed; I had 4 children lavishing me with love. I needed more than they could give me, I needed my husband, I needed his presence as much as I needed his love.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Quinault on October 30, 2010, 05:55:38 PM
Out of curiosity; how far are the admin of this forum willing to let this guy go? He is now claiming to be able to perform miracles, that he is a vessel of God like Christ.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 06:05:28 PM
Isn't spamming against the Rules?  You see one post from dataguy, and you've seen them all. ::)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 06:10:28 PM
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." ~2Peter 2:1
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Luke on October 30, 2010, 06:20:11 PM
(http://www.performanceboats.com/html/youBoat/data/606/Troll_spray.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 06:20:54 PM
Hey, I know--why don't the Admins ban him.  If he really is God, he'll be able to undo the ban.  I think that's a Solomonic solution, don't you? ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on October 30, 2010, 06:38:46 PM
"You're not a God.  Trust me, this is 12 years of Catholic school talkin'."  - Rita (Andie McDowell) to Phil (Bill Murray), "Groundhog Day"  :)
;D :laugh: :laugh:

Very nice.

"I'm A god, not THE God...at least I don't think I am."


 ;D


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: PeterTheAleut on October 30, 2010, 06:57:41 PM
"You're not a God.  Trust me, this is 12 years of Catholic school talkin'."  - Rita (Andie McDowell) to Phil (Bill Murray), "Groundhog Day"  :)
;D :laugh: :laugh:

Very nice.

"I'm A god, not THE God...at least I don't think I am."
Father Cavanaugh (Robert Prosky) of Notre Dame University speaking to Daniel "Rudy" Ruettiger (Sean Astin) in the 1993 film Rudy: "Son, in 35 years of religious study, I have only come up with two hard incontrovertible facts: there is a God, and I'm not Him." ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Irish Hermit on October 30, 2010, 07:15:51 PM
DEleted.  Inadvertantly repeated Peter's post.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 30, 2010, 08:04:04 PM
That's OK, Peter's posts are worth re-Pete-ing. ;)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 30, 2010, 08:08:52 PM
Well, right after posting above, I found my car keys!

Glory be to Hugh, our god!  ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 30, 2010, 08:24:34 PM
Diamonds are a girl's best friend.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Jetavan on October 30, 2010, 08:28:11 PM
Out of curiosity; how far are the admin of this forum willing to let this guy go? He is now claiming to be able to perform miracles, that he is a vessel of God like Christ.
Actually, he's claiming to be Christ:

Quote
His Holiness Shri Dattaswami is the present Human form of Jesus.

...which is a very strange claim indeed. ::)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Fr. George on October 30, 2010, 08:30:01 PM
"You're not a God.  Trust me, this is 12 years of Catholic school talkin'."  - Rita (Andie McDowell) to Phil (Bill Murray), "Groundhog Day"  :)
;D :laugh: :laugh:

Very nice.

"I'm A god, not THE God...at least I don't think I am."
Father Cavanaugh (Robert Prosky) of Notre Dame University speaking to Daniel "Rudy" Ruettiger (Sean Astin) in the 1993 film Rudy: "Son, in 35 years of religious study, I have only come up with two hard incontrovertible facts: there is a God, and I'm not Him." ;D

"Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god you say YES!" - Winston Zedemore, Ghostbuster and philosopher par excellance ;)

(Runner-up: Winston: "Hey, wait a minute. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! Hold it! Now, are we actually gonna go before a federal judge, and tell him that some moldy Babylonian god is going to drop in on Central Park West, and start tearing up the city? " 
Egon: "Sumerian, not Babylonian."
Peter: "Yeah. Big difference."
Winston: "No offense, guys, but I've gotta get my own lawyer. ")
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 30, 2010, 08:50:09 PM
Quote
His Holiness Shri Dattaswami is the present Human form of Jesus.

 :o

Oh dear.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 08:58:23 PM
Diamonds are a girl's best friend.
Here diamond means Human incarnation. He is diamond since God exists in Him when Human incarnation is alive on this earth.....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 09:02:34 PM
I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...

Jesus wouldn't of Done that, because he came into the world  to redeem and not to destroy.......



 The Christians criticize Krishna and Mohammed for killing the evil people. They say that Jesus changed all the evil people also through love. Then why the people crucified Him? Why they did not change by His love? Why Christianity suggests the permanent hell for sinners after enquiry? If love can change every body, there should not be hell at all! Jesus told that it is better to punish yourself instead of falling into hell permanently. Therefore, he was indicating the punishment and hell. He is never against the punishment of evil people. The L.K.G. students cannot be controlled by speech like college students.

They need a strong cane for discipline. The followers always misinterpret their original preachers. Krishna tried His best to change Kauravas but as a last resort only, He punished them. Similarly, Mohammed fought as last resort only. In fact Mohammed was the incarnation “ Kalki” who killed evil people with a sword riding on the horse. Krishna is Buddha while preaching Gita. He was Jesus when He showed kindness on Sudama and Draupadi.

 He was Mohammad in killing the demons. For protecting the good people (Pandavas) and for punishing Kauravas, He was cursed by Gandhari because of which, He died by the arrow shot on His foot. This is crucification only for the sake of good people like Pandavas. Both died shedding the blood. He took the punishment on Him to protect the real devotees like Pandavas. Krishna and Jesus were born in the similar situations.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 30, 2010, 09:05:56 PM
Sigh...  ::)    :laugh:


(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/neon000/pancakebunny.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 09:06:01 PM


 Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...



First we must understand that the real aim in following Dharma (justice) is to please the Lord only. The Lord is protector and Dharma is protected. Protector is greater than protected. Among the other souls you have to reject the injustice and vote for the justice. But when the Lord competes with the justice, you have to vote for the Lord. In Pravrutti justice and injustice compete and you have to vote for the justice. But in Nivrutti the Lord competes with the justice and you have to vote for the Lord. In fact, you don’t have patience to understand what the Lord does and blame Him. There are certain subtle aspects of Dharma (Dharma sukshma), which look like injustice. Only deep analysis one can understand the Dharma sukshma.

The butter indicates the extra stored money. You are expected to take the money from this world, which is required for your minimum needs. This entire world is the money of the Lord. But you are earning extra and storing for your future generations due to greediness. You must donate that extra money to the Lord who is in the human form and He will distribute that to His devotees for their upliftment. If you are not doing this, the Lord will steal your money, which is actually His own money. Butter is the fruit of their work, which is the money. Similarly He danced with Gopikas who were sages. They prayed Him (Rama) in their previous birth for the same. He is fulfilling the boon given by Him to His devotees.


Gopikas were the sages born as ladies. The sages propagated the ethics as word of God for the sake of balance of the society. During such propagation, some sages were overcome by the sacredness of ethics and thought that God became sacred by ethics, since He was always supporting ethics. Such sages born as Gopikas failed to reach the Lord in the night when His flute was heard. The sages, who always thought that the sacredness of ethics is always due to God only, could run to God violating the ethical tradition.

 The reality is that the value of any ethical principle is due to the fact that it is valuable since it is the word of God. It means that every word of God is ethical and it does not mean that God speaks only ethical principles. The ethical principle has no individual value and its total value is due to God only. God said that you should speak truth always (Satyam vada - Veda) and everyone should follow this because it is the word of God. Otherwise, speaking truth has no individual value.

Krishna asked Dharma Raja to tell a lie in the war. This applies to that individual and to that context only. Otherwise, the word of God as the Veda is applicable to everybody in every context. God is greater than ethics and the reverse is not true. Dharma Raja did not follow the instruction of Lord to tell the lie because the word of God is greater than the God Himself in his view. He felt that the ethics has individual value by itself and the value of God is due to His sincere following of ethics. God told that you should always follow ethics (Dharmam chara – Veda). But, He gave salvation to Gopikas, who violated ethics by running after Him.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 09:09:25 PM

All the original preachers like Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad etc. are brilliant diamonds and all their followers are like black pieces of charcoal. The diamond and charcoal are made of the same carbon atoms. Similarly the preacher and the follower are human beings. In the diamond there is a regular crystal structure. The charcoal is amorphous, without any crystal structure. Thus the correct logical interpretation makes the scripture shine like a brilliant diamond. The same scripture without regular logical interpretation becomes a black charcoal.

Jesus is God.  You're comparing the transcendent God, Creator of the universe, with a pagan god, a pagan prophet, and an epileptic pedophile.  If you were really the incarnation of God, you'd know that, Silly Swami.  
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 09:16:05 PM
Out of curiosity; how far are the admin of this forum willing to let this guy go? He is now claiming to be able to perform miracles, that he is a vessel of God like Christ.
Actually, he's claiming to be Christ:

Quote
His Holiness Shri Dattaswami is the present Human form of Jesus.

...which is a very strange claim indeed. ::)

When Jesus came all the high priests rejected Him and mocked Him saying how can He be God. Now millions of people are believing Him as God. What is the use? It is very easy to belive past human incarnation, because past human incarnation is not with us in human form here. Now the same God is present in the present human incarnation. Accepting present human incarnation as God, is very very difficult. Many factors hinder it. Ego and Jealosy towards co-human being is the main factor.

You have not seen Jesus physically in a human form. After reading bible you are accepting Jesus as God. But those fishermen accepted Jesus by seeing Him in human form and followed Him. They were great saints because they could identify God in Jesus and followed Him. Only very very few did it when GOd came as Jesus.

WHEN human incarnation exit from this world, His followers increase in numerous numbers. What is the use of it? Practical service and love to God is proved only when one accept living, present Human incarnation and serve Him in His mission. God is a practical God not theoretical God. His fruits are also practical only....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 09:20:06 PM


Jesus is God.  You're comparing the transcendent God, Creator of the universe, with a pagan god, a pagan prophet, and an epileptic pedophile.  If you were really the incarnation of God, you'd know that, Silly Swami.  
[/quote]

Jesus is God. When God enters the soul and body of His most beloved devotee (son of God), such devotee is called as the human incarnation. In the human incarnation, we find both God and Son of God mixed with each other in a perfect homogeneous state so that both are inseparable like the wire and the current in the live wire. The wire is the Son of God and current is God. The live wire is the human incarnation. The live wire must be treated as the current and there is no alternative way to experience the existence of current.

In this context, the misunderstanding arises. The live wire says that it is moving the fan. In fact, the current is speaking this through the wire. People misunderstand that the bloody wire is boasting about itself as itself moving the fan. The live wire looks like any other wire as far as the properties of the wire (metallic nature, leanness, etc.,) are concerned. This makes other wires to think that the live wire is also an ordinary wire without current, which is boasting about itself. This confusion lead to the crucifixion of Jesus by the public.

When Jesus claimed that He is the truth, the light and the Father of the heaven, this claim was not from the Son of God, but it was from God Himself. But, the observers have misunderstood this statement as that of Jesus. When the speaker is invisible, the mike looks as if it is speaking by itself. Here, at any time the speaker is not converted into mike or the current is not converted into wire. The two units exist separately even during the time of the human incarnation in which, both are homogeneously mixed to form a single phase. If this point is realized, Jesus might have escaped the crucifixion. It is this point, which is stressed by Mohammed. He said that God would never become human being or the vice-versa. This does not mean that the Son of God should not be treated as God in the human incarnation by the devotees.

If you deny this assumption of treating the Son of God as God, the devotees become dissatisfied because they prayed God for the experience of God and service to God. Then the very purpose of the human incarnation is lost. Mohammed clarified this concept to avoid the danger. But, His followers misunderstood that He denied the very concept of human incarnation. Thus Buddha and Mohammed should be taken as the preachers who warned about the reality of the concept to avoid the danger of loosing the highest fruit and punishing the human incarnation respectively. The followers have extrapolated the preaching and as a result, Buddhists thought that God does not exist and Muslims thought that the human incarnation does not exist.

The concept of human incarnation is introduced and explained well by Krishna in the Gita and Jesus in the Bible. Krishna says that God enters the human being and Jesus says that God is in flesh. This clearly means that God is neither the human being nor the flesh at any time. Buddha and Mohammed clarified the misunderstandings of the human beings about this concept. Buddha indicated God as unimaginable through silence and Mohammed indicated God as invisible. The desire to become God comes generally, when God is seen by eyes in human form.

Generally, the concept of human incarnation is avoided only to avoid the birth of this desire to become God. When God is invisible, generally the human tendency is to get some benefit from the invisible God and not to become God. But, Alas! The Advaitin has not left even the invisible God! He wants to become even that invisible God! Why becoming God? He claims that he is already God. For this, he proposed that God is the invisible awareness (soul), which exists in his body mixed with qualities, which is called as the individual soul (jeeva). He proposed that simple filtration of qualities from the soul will yield the absolute God because according to him God is pure awareness without qualities. The Advaitin gave his own false concept of God and also his own false way to become God.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 09:26:49 PM
Para-

a prefix appearing in loanwords from Greek, most often attached to verbs and verbal derivatives, with the meanings “at or to one side of, beside, side by side” ( parabola; paragraph; parallel; paralysis ), “beyond, past, by” ( paradox; paragogue ); by extension from these senses, this prefix came to designate objects or activities auxiliary to or derivative of that denoted by the base word ( parody; paronomasia ), and hence abnormal or defective ( paranoia ), a sense now common in modern scientific coinages ( parageusia; paralexia ). As an English prefix, para- 1  may have any of these senses; it is also productive in the naming of occupational roles considered ancillary or subsidiary to roles requiring more training, or of a higher status, on such models as paramedical  and paraprofessional: paralegal; paralibrarian; parapolice.

Brahman-

The Brahman or Brahma is a breed of Zebu cattle (Bos primigenius indicus), later exported from India to the rest of the world. The main breeds used were Kankrej, Guzerat, Nelore or Ongole and the Gir or Gyr cattle. It is named for the sacred cow of Hinduism.

Data Pastrami,

 Are you saying we cannot get beyond or past a Brahman cow?  Or that we cannot become an abnormal, defective Brahman cow?  Please explain using bullet points and Roberts Rules of Order.  En espanol, por favor.  :)

Parabrahman means absolute God.

In Veda God is said to be both Sat (existing) and Asat (non-existing)



(In Veda and Gita the words Sat and Asat are used in contradicting sense, but they can be correlated to mean the same by logical discussion.)


In Veda God is said to be both Sat and Asat (Sadeva Somya.., Asadvaa…). But in Gita God represented by Para Brahman is said to be neither Sat nor Asat (Nasat Naasaduchyate).  This appears to be a contradiction between Veda and Gita.  Sat means existence.  Asat means non-existence.  Let us take Veda.  When God is Sat, it means God is not Asat.  Similarly, when God is Asat, it means God is not sat. Hence, the resulting concept in each statement of Veda combined gives the concept of Gita.  Thus, Veda and Gita are correlated because Gita is said to be the essence of all Vedas. 

God can be said as an item not having the existence of worldly items


(The existence of Para Brahman is not the existence of non-God items in which the knowledge of the non-God items is a prerequisite condition. Para Brahman exists as per the statement of Veda).

   All the non-God items are worldly objects, which are parts of creation. All these items are known first and then only their existence is mentioned. When you say that a pot exists, it means that you are stating the existence since you know the pot already. Hence, the existence of any worldly item requires the knowledge of that item already.  If you do not know anything about an item, you will not say that it exists.  Hence, the existence always requires the prior knowledge of the item.  But God is beyond world and is unimaginable since God is not known.  Hence, the existence of God is not similar to the existence of the worldly items.  Since the existence of worldly items, which requires prior knowledge of the item, is absent in the case of God, God can be said as an item not having the existence of worldly items and hence God is non-existent (Asat) in this sense.  This does not mean that God is really non-existent because God really exists as per Veda (Astityeva….) and hence God exists (Sat). 

   God is known to God

(God is known to God and hence the prerequisite condition is fulfilled.  For human beings, the unimaginable God can exist like the unimaginable miracle).


   Veda says that the knower of God is God Himself (Brahmavit Brahmaiva…). Hence, though God is unknown to human beings, He is known to Himself. If you say that the existence of anything must satisfy the prior condition of its knowledge, the rule is not violated since God is having His knowledge.  Then, you may say that God exists for God only since the prior condition is limited to God only. This is not correct because you are agreeing the existence of an unimaginable miracle also in the world.  When the miracle is demonstrated, it is unimaginable but its existence in the world is accepted.  Hence, the existence of unimaginable item like miracle exists in the case of human beings.



(The concept of unimaginable nature requires the relative existence of the concept of imaginable nature).

   To recognize day, night should relatively exist. Similarly, to recognize the existence of unimaginable nature, relatively the imaginable nature must exist.  If everything is unimaginable there is no significance of the very concept of unimaginable nature. Therefore, the world with imaginable items exists, so that the unimaginable nature of God can be recognized significantly through relativity.

   God is known as unknown



(God is known as unknown.  This is said in Veda and in Gita also)

   Veda says that angels and sages came to know only one point about the God after long hectic discussions.  That single point is that God is unknown (Yasyaamatam Tasyamatam…).  Even Gita says that no body knows anything about God (Mamtu veda Nakaschana.).  Therefore, the unimaginable nature of God is clearly established by the sacred scriptures.

   The unimaginable nature of God is elaborated in Veda by various statements



(The unimaginable nature of God is elaborated in Veda by various statements).

   Veda clearly elaborates the unimaginable nature of God through the following statements: Words cannot give knowledge of God (Yatovaachah, Na tatra vaak…).  Even mind cannot touch God (Apraapya Manasaa Saha).  Intelligence cannot reach God (Namedhayaa, Yo Buddheh Paratah..). You cannot understand God through logic (Naishaa Tarkena…, Atarkyah..).  Senses cannot grasp God (Nachakshushaa…, Aprameyah…, Atindriyam….).  All these statements have elaborated the concept of unimaginable nature of God by any means. 


   Unimaginable God differs from all other imaginable worldly objects

(God and other worldly items are greatest.  But the unimaginable God differs from all other imaginable worldly objects.  Hence, the word Param meaning different is used before the word Brahman).

   A worldly item, greatest in its category is called as Brahman.  God also being greater than all these greatest items is really greatest and hence can be called as Brahman.  Thus, the ‘greatest’ sense of the word Brahman is common to God and all other greatest worldly items.  But, God being unimaginable differs from all the worldly items which are imaginable.  Hence, there is the common point and also point of difference between God and other worldly items.

 The word Brahman is used to God and other worldly items based on this common point.  While accepting the common point, the point of difference is added by the prefix word Param, which means different.  Thus, a new word is not created.  The word Brahman is maintained. But, for the sake of differentiation, an extra word, Param, is prefixed.  The word Param brings focus on the point of difference only and does not contradict the common point of greatest nature or Brahman. 


Veda says that God is known and seen


(Veda says that God is known and seen.  This does not contradict the above said unimaginable nature of God.  These statements only refer to the medium in to which God entered.)


   Veda says that God is not seen by eyes.  But the same Veda says else where that a fortunate devotee sees God (Kaschit Dhirah..).  Similarly, Veda says that God alone knows God.  But the same Veda says that a devotee knows God (Vedaahametam….).  This seems to be a contradiction in Veda.  But there is no contradiction, because God enters a medium for the sake of devotees.  Then the medium is charged by God and the verbs like known, seen etc., apply to the charged medium and not to the original God. 

   A simile to the mediated God


(An electric wire is seen but not the electricity.  This is a simile to the mediated God. )


   When the electricity charges the metallic wire, the wire is treated as the electricity.  The electric wire is seen but you can say that the electricity is seen.  The electricity is seen through the wire indirectly though not directly.  The electricity pervades all over the wire and when the wire is touched anywhere, the electricity is experienced through the touch of the wire.  Therefore, the verbs like seen, touched etc., apply to the wire and not to the electricity.  But, indirectly the electricity is experienced through the shock.  Similarly God is experienced through the medium, since the medium can be treated as God like the live wire.


Veda says that God is not in the statue


(Veda says that God is not in the statue.  Gita also says that those who worship the inert five elements will be born as inert elements).

   Veda says that God does not exist in the statue (Natasya Pratimaa). The statue is only the representative model of God and God does not exist in the inert statue.  Similarly, the inert energy like light etc.  Gita also says that those who worship the inert matter and energy (inert five elements) are born as inert objects in the world (Bhutejya yaanti…).  Hence, the medium into which God enters is not inert but is a living being which is mainly characterized by awareness.  The body of the living being is inert but a living being is mainly characterized by life, mind etc., which is awareness. 

   The purpose of the mediated God is preaching the spiritual knowledge


(The purpose of the mediated God is preaching the spiritual knowledge to the human beings.  Hence, the medium is human being and this is said in Gita).


   The main purpose of the entry of God into a medium is to preach the spiritual knowledge to human beings and hence the medium must be a living being and especially must be a human being.  This is clearly said in Gita that God enters the human being (Maanusheem tanumaashritam). 


God can do every thing without being that
(God is beyond the worldly logic).



(God being the source of all items and their properties of the creation, God can do every thing without being that. Items have specific properties by His order only. God is beyond the worldly logic).

   The creation contains various items.  Each item is having certain prescribed qualities.  All the items and their qualities are generated from God only.  By the will of God only, a quality exists in a particular item.  No item has any inherent quality by itself.  It is by the order of God only that an item has a particular quality.  If God wishes the qualities may change.  By the will of God fire may become cold and water may become hot.  In the world you are recognizing the item by its quality thinking as if that quality is inherent of that item only.  The worldly logic is not standard because it is based on the will of God only.

This worldly logic cannot be applied to the case of God, who is omnipotent to change the quality of any item.  God being the source of all the qualities, God can posses any quality and due to that God need not be that item possessing the quality as seen in this world.  Without being awareness, God can wish.  Without being fire, God can burn anything.  Hence, you should not apply the logic of identifying items by their qualities to God as in the case of this world.  A quality indicates the potential work of the item.  Burning is the quality and also is the potential work of the item.  Therefore, God can have any quality and is potent to do any work.
 
   Veda says that God can run without legs and can catch without hands


(Veda says that God can have the quality to do the potential work without being the corresponding item).

   Veda says that God can run without legs and can catch without hands (Apaani Paado….).  According to the worldly logic, the item that runs must have legs and the item that catches must have hands.  But God runs without legs and catches without hands.  This means that God is beyond the worldly logic and hence is unimaginable. 

   The reason for God being unimaginable

(God is unimaginable because God, the generator of space, is beyond the space.  The intelligence can never go beyond the space).

   Veda says that God is the cause of space (Atmaana Aakaashah….). Cause can be seen in its original form, only when its effect is destroyed.  The lump of mud can be visualized only when the pot is destroyed.  Hence, to understand the original God, the space must be destroyed.  When the space is destroyed and does not exist, the situation is unimaginable, in spite of your intensive imagination even for hundred years.  Since, your intelligence cannot cross the space, God, who is beyond space can never be imagined by human intelligence.  This is the reason for God being unimaginable. 

There is no worldly item that can be perfectly compared to God

(There is no worldly item that can be perfectly compared to God.  Hence, any simile has defect in the case of God.  God can be said to be the item if God enters that due to identification).

   All the worldly items have dimensions of the space and hence are not beyond space.  If the items are beyond space, they will be also unimaginable.  But all the items of the world are imaginable only.  No imaginable item can be a simile to the unimaginable God. Hence, a complete simile for God is absent in this world.  A simile among the worldly items also is never perfect in all aspects.  The face is compared to the moon.  Moon increases and decreases in the month but the face has no such increase and decrease.  An imaginable item cannot be a perfect simile to another imaginable item in the world.  Then, how can you bring a perfect simile from the imaginable items to the unimaginable God?  Of course, God enters into an imaginable item as medium.  In that case the medium itself is said to be God as the live wire is said to be the current itself.  Here also the medium is treated as God but actually the medium is not God directly. 
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Quinault on October 30, 2010, 09:27:22 PM
Ok, where is OzGeorge when we need him to give this guy a custom title? I think this guy needs one.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: stashko on October 30, 2010, 09:35:55 PM
In One of the series [Mahabharata] corrected  spelling, one guy dies or is killed ,comes back as a woman just to get revenge....The series is a Great series ,,Acting superb costumes fantastic ,,,Singing Out of this world....I enjoyed the series ,Though i don't accept or believe that its a actual event that happened in India's History ....... ;D Link > episode 72>   http://www.youtube.com/v/93QgfpVQU3U?fs=1&hl=en_US
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 09:36:23 PM
Para-

 Please explain using bullet points and Roberts Rules of Order.  En espanol, por favor.  :)

God is not the flesh

(Gita says that God lives in the human being.  Even other religion says the same).

   Gita says that God entered and lives in the human being.  The word ‘aashritam’ clearly means that God is not the human being, but God has entered the human being. Even the other religion, Christianity, says that God is in flesh.  It clearly means that God is not the flesh. 

The existence of God is experienced in the human incarnation


(Even in the human incarnation, the existence of God is experienced, as in the case of electric wire, to negate atheism only).

   Even in the case of human incarnation, the existence of unimaginable God is experienced, but not any characteristic of the unimaginable God.  The human being charged by God is treated as God by devotees, but on true analysis, neither the human being is God, nor God is the human being.  The current is a stream of electrons and the metallic wire is a continuously bound chain of metallic crystals.  When the metallic wire is charged by current, the metallic wire is treated as current, but this does not mean that the stream of electrons (current) is actually converted in to the chain of metallic crystals straightly.

 Hence, even in the human incarnation, God is not experienced, but only the existence of God in the human being is experienced.  If the existence of God cannot also be experienced, there is a danger of conclusion of non-existence of God leading to atheism.  Hence, God in human form gives proof for His existence only to condemn atheism.  This should not be misunderstood as the direct experience of God or God’s characteristics.


God does not live in this world but enters the world for the requirement of a few devotees


(God does not live in this world but enters the world for the requirement of a few devotees, being omnipotent, but preaching benefits all).

God is beyond creation and hence God does not exist in the world as supported by Veda (Neti Neti..), Gita (Natvaham teshu…) and Christian scripture which says that God does not live in this world.  This only means that everything and every body in the world is not God.  But this does not mean that God will not enter the world.  Veda says that God enters the world (Tadevaanupraavishat).  If you say that somebody is not residing in the city of Bombay, it does not mean that he will never visit Bombay. However, the above scriptural statements deny your all pervading God!  The visit of God into this world is justified by the requirement and desire of certain top devotees.

 If you object the entry of God by rule, you are opposing the omni potency of God. Suppose you object the entry of God by establishing the lack of requirement for any devotee, it is also absurd.  You may not require the entry of God but how can you deny the requirement of others, who need entry of the God for the sake of personal service?  The entry of God is not for the sake of all human beings but it is for the requirement of a few devotees.  You cannot generalize the policy of requirement to all the human beings. However, even though God comes to satisfy a few devotees only, He preaches the spiritual knowledge that benefits all.  You can be also benefited by taking Him in the level of preacher only through personal discussions.


The knowledge of God is to detect the unimaginable God through the imaginable medium


The knowledge of God is to detect the unimaginable God through the imaginable medium. If both God and medium are unimaginable, then it means both are non-existent.

 If the medium is also unimaginable like the God entering it, then, you can never detect God. This results in the total non-existence of God. The medium must be imaginable, which is the basis for projecting the unimaginable nature unlike the other imaginable media, which project only the imaginable nature. The alive wire gives shock indicating the existence of electricity in it.

Similarly, the imaginable medium containing God projects the unimaginable nature of God indicating the existence of unimaginable God. If the wire is also unseen like the unseen electricity, then, there is no basis for detecting the existence of unseen electricity. This means that there is no wire and no electricity. Similarly, if the medium is also unimaginable, there is no basis for the existence of unimaginable God to be indicated through imaginable medium. Therefore, for the projection of the existence of unimaginable God, the existence of imaginable medium is essential and this is the reason for creating this imaginable world through which only the unimaginable God can be detected. Such detection of unimaginable God in a specific imaginable medium is called as the knowledge of God or Brahmajnaanam.

There is no possibility of knowing the unknowable nature of God


The unimaginable nature is experienced in the stage of detection as well as the final result and the experience is the very knowledge itself.

 When the unimaginable nature of God is experienced through imaginable medium, it means that you have attained the knowledge of unimaginable nature of God. This does not mean that the unimaginable nature of God becomes imaginable. Knowledge of unimaginable nature means that the existence of unimaginable nature is detected or known. Without the knowledge there cannot be experience. The experience of unimaginable nature means only the knowledge of existence of unimaginable nature of God and in this point there is no possibility of the unimaginable nature becoming imaginable.

 Through the knowledge of existence of unimaginable nature of God, you have concluded the existence of unimaginable God in a specific medium. Here either in the stage of detection or in the stage of result of detection, there is no possibility of knowing the unknowable nature of God. You can only know the existence of the unknowable God and this does not mean that you can know the unknowable nature of God.


Importance of  Satguru in the spiritual path



 Satguru is the human form of God, who shows the correct path and also clarifies all your doubts with perfect analysis. Hence, the importance of Satguru is very much in the spiritual path. In the case of Satguru, He is also the goal of your spiritual effort. If you have attained Satguru, you have already reached the goal. With the help of His knowledge and sharp analysis, you have to only identify Satguru as the goal. The case of Guru is different. Sometimes, he may err and mislead you to the wrong goal. If the guru gives correct knowledge, you can identify Satguru with the help of such sharp knowledge. Sometimes, the guru may appear as Satguru and you may be stuck-up with such guru and not reach the goal.

Difference between ‘Son of God’ and other human beings


 Like the machine and son of an engineer, the creation and son of God exist.

 All the human beings are part of the creation of God. A liberated soul is one of the human beings and when he is blessed by God, God enters in to him to make him the human incarnation of God on the earth. Such a blessed liberated soul is mentioned as the son of God. The son of God differs from all the other human beings and the rest of creation by having God in him. The entire creation including all the other human beings is also the product of God and the son of God is also the product of God.

But the difference between the son of God and the rest of creation is the presence of God in the son of God and the absence of God in the rest of creation. A machine invented by the engineer is said to be his product. Similarly, the son of the engineer is also said to be the product of the same engineer. But the difference is that the blood of engineer exists in the son, where as, the blood of engineer is absent in the machine. Thus one has to clearly understand the meaning of the son of God.

Gita says that nobody understands God even after hearing lot about God


The surprise that is mentioned in Gita is nothing but the unimaginable nature of the God.

In Gita it is said that one sees God with surprise, one hears about God with surprise and one speaks about God with surprise. Finally Gita says that nobody understands God even after hearing lot about God (Aashcharyavat…). The surprise mentioned about all aspects of God indicates just the unimaginable nature of God. There is no surprise if the concept is understood. When any point is not understood, then only the surprise arises.


God has not become flesh, but God is in flesh



 There is no inter-conversion between God and the medium but the medium is treated as God due to the exhibition of the characteristic of God by the medium.

 When it is said that God has become the medium or that the medium has become God, it does not mean that there is a real conversion of one item into another. When the electric current flows in a wire, it does not mean that the current, which is a stream of electrons, is really converted into the solid wire, which is a stream of solid state crystals or the reverse. The wire can be treated as current and you can say that the current has become the wire or that the wire has become the current. This does not mean that there is a real transformation or conversion of the wire into current or the current into the wire.

 The wire in which the current flows gives a shock and from the experience of this shock, you are saying that the current exists in that wire. Here, the shock is the characteristic of the wire. When the wire exhibits the same characteristic of the current, i.e. shock, we say that the wire has become the current.

 Similarly, when the medium in which God is present exhibits the unimaginable nature, we can say that the medium has become God, because, the characteristic of God (unimaginable nature) is exhibited by the medium. However, you need not say that the characteristic of God is known, because, as already said above, the unimaginable nature is only the inseparable associated characteristic of God and not His inherent characteristic. However, the inseparable associated characteristic can be treated as the inherent characteristic for all practical purposes.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 09:46:34 PM
Ok, where is OzGeorge when we need him to give this guy a custom title? I think this guy needs one.

Sometimes when the divine knowledge is present nobody follows it. THis is the reason why Jesus told the knoweldge mainly in prables so that only interested people will stay back and ask the inner meaning of it....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 09:47:27 PM
God takes the human body to unify all  religions

 To unify all the religions in the world and to give exceptional spiritual guidance to the entire humanity, God alone, who is capable of possessing such exceptional spiritual knowledge called Prajnanam, takes the human body.

The main aim of God entering into the world is to give excellent guidance to the spiritual aspirants. No soul can give such exceptional guidance equal to God. Such guidance is based on the exceptional unique knowledge of omniscient God. Since He is the author of the spiritual scriptures, He alone can give the correct interpretation and the essence of all the scriptures.

Since the same God came in different forms to different parts of the world and gave the exceptional spiritual guidance to the entire humanity through the scriptures of various religions, He alone can correlate all the scriptures and establish the Universal Spirituality and the subsequent peace and harmony in the world. Such basic exceptional and universal spiritual knowledge is called as Prajnanam. For this purpose, it goes without saying that the suitable medium to fulfill this main aim is only the human body. Hence, God comes in human form only to accomplish this excellent goal.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Quinault on October 30, 2010, 09:57:03 PM
Your response has absolutely nothing to do with the post you are quoting. I may not be capable of entirely knowing God. But I am quite positive that he wouldn't spend His time trying to convince people on the internet of His wisdom and power. God doesn't need to prove Himself, obviously you feel the need to do so.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 10:03:54 PM
Gita says that God is unimaginable & comes in human form

   Veda says that God is the first preacher and He is called as Kashyapa because He is the pashyaka. Since, the meaning of pashyaka is that He who sees the subtle meaning of the scripture (Kashyapah pashyako bhavati). This first preacher preached the spiritual knowledge regarding the information about absolute God called as Brahmajnana to Sun in the beginning as said in Gita (Imam vivasvate). The Sun preached this to his first son, Shanaishchara, who is called as Jnanakaraka or the initiator of knowledge. This knowledge was passed on to his brother called Yama. From Yama the knowledge was achieved by Nachaketa, who brought it to the earth and was propagated to the human beings.

These five preachers are called as the five fires (Panchaagni). The preacher or Guru is compared to the fire since the knowledge itself is the fire that burns the ignorance to ash as said in Gita (Jnanagnih…). The first preacher is Krishna and He is also called as Datta. Datta means, the unimaginable God given to the world in the imaginable medium, which is the human form as said in Gita. Gita says that God is unimaginable (Mamtuvedana…) and that God comes in human form (Manusheemtanu…). Krishna is the human form charged by the unimaginable God. All the human incarnations(Krishna, Jesus, Mohammad, Bhudha, Shri Dattaswami etc) are the human forms charged by unimaginable God.

(http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/Themes/Pascha2010/images/warnpmod.gif)
As I stated in my previous warning, you're causing this forum far too much disruption by starting new threads as rapidly as you do. Yet much of what you have done in the mere 48 hours since my warning is start 9 NEW threads. This is not the compliance I expected. To show you how important it is that you stop commandeering the forum in this way, I am placing you on Post Moderation for the next 7 days. While on post moderation, you will still be able to post, but every one of your posts will need to be approved by a moderator before it will appear on the forum. If this doesn't slow you down, then the admin/moderator team may need to mute or even ban you.

If you think this action unfair, please appeal it via private message to Fr. George (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=755).

- PeterTheAleut

From OrthodoxChristianity.net Rules and Regulations (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=rules)
Quote
Thread Commandeering -- Any poster may face discipline on the site if, in the consensus of the Adminstrative or moderatorial team, any individual poster habitually takes control of numerous threads by posting non-germane material in existing discussions, providing irrelevant observations or points, or continually bringing up the same point in numerous threads.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 10:05:41 PM
Your response has absolutely nothing to do with the post you are quoting. I may not be capable of entirely knowing God. But I am quite positive that he wouldn't spend His time trying to convince people on the internet of His wisdom and power. God doesn't need to prove Himself, obviously you feel the need to do so.

Exactly, God need not prove His power to others. He is already fed up with fame and name in the upperworld. But He preaches divine knoweldge to all, so that He is not critisised in the upperworld for not preaching them......
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Quinault on October 30, 2010, 10:08:49 PM
If you truly are divine, why try to prove it by trying to appear wise?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 10:10:56 PM
In One of the series [Mahabharata] corrected  spelling, one guy dies or is killed ,comes back as a woman just to get revenge....The series is a Great series ,,Acting superb costumes fantastic ,,,Singing Out of this world....I enjoyed the series ,Though i don't accept or believe that its a actual event that happened in India's History ....... ;D Link > episode 72>   http://www.youtube.com/v/93QgfpVQU3U?fs=1&hl=en_US

Essence of Mahabharata

 Pravrutti deals with the ethics(justice) to be followed towards the other souls in the society. Nivrutti deals with the knowledge, devotion and service through sacrifice to God. Duryodhana (a demon) is in the bottom, who does not know even the Pravrutti.

 He wanted to enjoy the wealth of his cousin brothers and never recognized Krishna as God. He is zero in Pravrutti and Nivrutti. Dhrutarashtra (father of  Duryodhana) is just equal to Duryodhana in practice. He is a good scholar of Pravrutti and Nivrutti in theory only.

 Both these went to hell. Dharma Raja ( a devotee) is very good in theory as well as practice in Pravrutti. His theory and practice in Nivrutti is also good but deficient in Nivrutti to some extent. He gave more importance to justice than God. He went to heaven for following the justice. This is the essence of MahaBharatam which could touch only the heaven at the maximum. All this is Pravrutti only.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 10:12:45 PM
^You're very confused, aren't you?  It's tough impersonating the Holy Trinity.



Why God has to come in human form?

   If the spiritual knowledge is perfect and complete, the devotion and practice are the spontaneous subsequent steps for which there is no need of any effort. If the practice is perfect and complete,  the fruit is spontaneous. Therefore, all the efforts should be put only to gain the perfect and complete spiritual knowledge. Hence, Shankara told that knowledge alone can achieve fruit (Jnanadevatu…). The perfect and complete spiritual knowledge is possible only from God. But God is unimaginable and therefore to give this perfect and complete knowledge, the unimaginable God comes down in human form.

 For this purpose, which is most important, God will never enter inert medium. The human form means the soul or awareness associated with the human body. Whenever God enters this world the soul is always an associated medium with Him. You should not say that the soul or awareness alone is the associated medium. If you say like that, the soul exists in birds and animals also and these birds and animals cannot give the spiritual knowledge to humanity. Therefore, the soul should mean the soul existing in human body only.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 30, 2010, 10:16:43 PM
Hey, I know--why don't the Admins ban him.  If he really is God, he'll be able to undo the ban.  I think that's a Solomonic solution, don't you? ;D

 :laugh: I second this!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Quinault on October 30, 2010, 10:19:37 PM
Why would the Almighty God care about being criticized anywhere, "upper" or lower world? Criticism doesn't negate divinity.
 
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Melodist on October 30, 2010, 10:19:51 PM
God takes the human body to unify all  religions

 To unify all the religions in the world and to give exceptional spiritual guidance to the entire humanity, God alone, who is capable of possessing such exceptional spiritual knowledge called Prajnanam, takes the human body.

The main aim of God entering into the world is to give excellent guidance to the spiritual aspirants. No soul can give such exceptional guidance equal to God. Such guidance is based on the exceptional unique knowledge of omniscient God. Since He is the author of the spiritual scriptures, He alone can give the correct interpretation and the essence of all the scriptures.

Since the same God came in different forms to different parts of the world and gave the exceptional spiritual guidance to the entire humanity through the scriptures of various religions, He alone can correlate all the scriptures and establish the Universal Spirituality and the subsequent peace and harmony in the world. Such basic exceptional and universal spiritual knowledge is called as Prajnanam. For this purpose, it goes without saying that the suitable medium to fulfill this main aim is only the human body. Hence, God comes in human form only to accomplish this excellent goal.

God became a man (one man Jesus Christ) in order to take our nature upon himself and heal the corruption of our fallen broken human nature. The corruption of our nature is not a cultural thing, but universal to our entire race. In becoming a man, He united Himself to our nature, not a culture. Christ brought salvation to everyone, not just those who shared in His cultural context in the same time and place as Him.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Manalive on October 30, 2010, 10:26:04 PM

Why God has to come in human form?


   If the spiritual knowledge is perfect and complete, the devotion and practice are the spontaneous subsequent steps for which there is no need of any effort. If the practice is perfect and complete,  the fruit is spontaneous. Therefore, all the efforts should be put only to gain the perfect and complete spiritual knowledge. Hence, Shankara told that knowledge alone can achieve fruit (Jnanadevatu…). The perfect and complete spiritual knowledge is possible only from God. But God is unimaginable and therefore to give this perfect and complete knowledge, the unimaginable God comes down in human form.

 For this purpose, which is most important, God will never enter inert medium. The human form means the soul or awareness associated with the human body. Whenever God enters this world the soul is always an associated medium with Him. You should not say that the soul or awareness alone is the associated medium. If you say like that, the soul exists in birds and animals also and these birds and animals cannot give the spiritual knowledge to humanity. Therefore, the soul should mean the soul existing in human body only.

swami, why don't you refrain from posting if your just going to answer your own questions? This is a discussion forum; not personal blog to collect your thoughts-- however divine you think them to be.  ::)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 30, 2010, 10:28:28 PM
The Guru is God Himself manifesting in a personal form to guide the aspirant. Grace of God takes the form of the Guru. To see the Guru is to see God. The Guru is united with God. He inspires devotion in others. His presence purifies all.

The Guru is verily a link between the individual and the immortal. He is a being who has raised himself from this into That, and thus has free and unhampered access into both the realms. He stands, as it were, upon the threshold of immortality; and, bending down he raises the struggling individuals with his one hand, and with the other lifts them up into the empyrean of everlasting joy and infinite Truth-Consciousness.

THE SADGURU

To be a Guru, one must have a command from God.

Mere study of books cannot make one a Guru. One who has studied the Vedas, and who has direct knowledge of the Atman (Self) through Anubhava (experience), can alone be enrolled as a Guru. A Jivanmukta or liberated sage is the real Guru or spiritual preceptor. He is the Sadguru. He is identical with Brahman or the Supreme Self. He is a Knower of Brahman.

A Sadguru is endowed with countless Siddhis (psychic powers). He possesses all divine Aisvarya (powers), all the wealth of the Lord.

Possession of Siddhis, however, is not the test to declare the greatness of a sage or to prove that he has attained Self-realisation. Sadgurus generally do not exhibit any miracle or Siddhi. Sometimes, however, they may do so in order to convince the aspirants of the existence of superphysical things, give them encouragement, and instill faith in their hearts.

The Sadguru is Brahman Himself. He is an ocean of bliss, knowledge, and mercy. He is the captain of your soul. He is the fountain of joy. He removes all your troubles, sorrows, and obstacles. He shows you the right divine path.

He tears your veil of ignorance. He makes you immortal and divine. He transmutes your lower, diabolical nature. He gives you the rope of knowledge, and takes you up when you are drowning in this ocean of Samsara (cycle of birth and death). Do not consider him to be only a man. If you take him as a man, you are a beast. Worship your Guru and bow to him with reverence.

Guru is God. A word from him is a word from God. He need not-teach anything. Even his presence or company is elevating, inspiring, and stirring, His very company is self-illumination. Living in his company is spiritual education. Read the Granth-saheb (the holy scripture of the Sikh religion). You will come to know the greatness of the Guru.

Man can learn only from man, and hence God teaches through a human body. In your Guru, you have your human ideal of perfection. He is the pattern into which you wish to mould yourself. Your mind will readily be convinced that such a great soul, is fit to be worshipped and revered.

Guru is the Moksha-dvara (door to liberation). He is the gateway to the transcendental Truth-Consciousness. But, it is the aspirant who has to enter through it. The, Guru is a help, but the actual task of practical Sadhana (spiritual practice) falls on the aspirant himself.

THE NEED FOR A GURU

For a beginner in the spiritual path, a Guru is necessary. To light a candle, you need a burning candle. Even an illumined soul alone can enlighten another soul.

Some do meditation for some years independently. Later on, they actually feel the necessity of a Guru. They come across some obstacles in the way. They are unable to know how to obviate these impediments or stumbling blocks. Then they begin to search for a Master.

Only the man who has already been to Badrinath will be able to tell you the road. In the case of the spiritual path, it is still more difficult to find your way. The mind will mislead you very often. The Guru will be able to remove pitfalls and obstacles, and lead you along the right path. He will tell you: "This road leads you to Moksha (liberation); this one leads to bondage". Without this guidance, you might want to go to Badrinath, but find yourself in Delhi!

The scriptures are like a forest. There are ambiguous passages. There are passages which are apparently contradictory. There are passages which have esoteric meanings, diverse significance, and hidden explanations. There are cross-references. You are in need of a Guru or Preceptor who will explain to you the right meaning, who will remove doubts and ambiguities, who will place before you the essence of the teachings.

A Guru is absolutely necessary for every aspirant in the spiritual path. It is only the Guru who will find out your defects. The nature of egoism is such that you will not be able to find out your own defects. Just as a man cannot see his back, so also he cannot see his own errors. He must live under a Guru for the eradication of his evil qualities and defects.

The aspirant who is under the guidance of a Master or Guru is safe from being led astray. Satsanga or association with the Guru is an armour and fortress to guard you against all temptations and unfavourable forces of the material world.

Cases of those who had attained perfection without study under any Guru should not be cited as authority against the necessity of a Guru; for, such great men are the anomalies of spiritual life, and not the common normality. They come into existence as spiritual masters as a result of the intense service, study, and meditation practised in previous births. They had already studied under the Guru. The present birth is only its continuative spiritual effect. Hence, the importance of the Guru is not lessened thereby.

Some teachers mislead their aspirants. They say unto all: "Think for yourself. Do not surrender yourself to any Guru". When one says, "Do not follow any Guru!", he intends to be the listeners' Guru himself. Do not approach such pseudo-Gurus. Do not hear their lectures.

All great ones had their teachers. All the sages, saints, prophets, world- teachers, incarnations, great men, have had their own Gurus, however great they might have been. Svetaketu learnt the nature of Truth from Uddalaka, Maitreyi from Yajnavalkya, Bhrigu from Varuna, Narada from Sanatkumara, Nachiketas from Yama, Indra from Prajapati; and several others humbly went to wise ones, observed strict Brahmacharya, practised rigorous discipline, and learnt Brahma-vidya (the science of God) from them.

Lord Krishna sat at the feet of His Guru Sandeepani. Lord Rama had Guru Vasishtha who gave Him Upadesha (spiritual advice). Lord Jesus sought John to be baptised by him on the banks of the river Jordan. Even Devas (celestial beings) have Brihaspati as their Guru. Even the greatest among the divine beings sat at the feet of Guru Dakshinamurti.

A neophyte must have a personal Guru first. He cannot have God as Guru to begin with. He must have a pure mind. He must have ethical perfection. He, must be intensely virtuous. He must be above body-consciousness. Then alone can he have God as Guru.

HOW TO CHOOSE YOUR GURU

If you find peace in the presence of a Mahatma (great soul), if you are inspired by his speeches, if he is able to clear your doubts, if he is free, from greed, anger, and lust, if he is selfless, loving, and I-less, you can take him as your Guru. He who is able to clear your doubts, he who is sympathetic in your Sadhana, he who does not disturb your beliefs but helps you on from where you are, he in whose very presence you feel spiritually elevated-he is your Guru. Once you choose Your Guru, implicitly follow him. God will guide you through the Guru.

Do not use your reason too much in the selection of your Guru. You will fail if you do so. If you fail to get a first-class Guru, try to follow the instructions of the Sadhu (a spiritual person) who is treading the path for some years, who has purity and other virtuous qualities, and who has some knowledge of the scriptures. Just as a student of the Intermediate class will be able to teach a student of Third Form when a professor with M.A. qualification is not available, just as a sub-assistant surgeon will be able to attend on a patient when the civil surgeon is not available, this second- class type of Guru will be able to help you.

If you are not able to find out even this second-class type of Guru, you can follow the teachings contained in the books written by realised saints like Sri Sankara, Dattatreya, and others. You can keep a photo of such a realised Guru, if available, and worship the same with faith and devotion. Gradually you will get inspiration, and the Guru may appear in dream and initiate and inspire you at the proper time. For a sincere Sadhak (aspirant), help comes in a mysterious manner. When the time is ripe, the Guru and the disciple are brought together by the Lord in a mysterious way.

MYSTERIOUS HELP FROM THE LORD

Just see how the Lord has helped the devotees in the following instances. Eknath heard an Akasavani (a voice from the sky). It said, "See Janardan Pant at Deva Giri. He will put you in the proper path and guide you." Eknath acted accordingly and found his Guru. Tukaram received his Mantra, Rama Krishna Hari, in his dream. He repeated this Mantra and had Darshan (vision) of Lord Krishna. Lord Krishna directed Namdev to get his higher initiation from a Sannyasin (renunciate) at Mallikarjuna. Queen Chudalai assumed the form, of Kumbha Muni, appeared before her husband Sikhidhwaja in the forest, and initiated him in the mysteries of Kaivalya (state of absolute independence). Madhura Kavi saw a light in the firmament for three days consecutively. It guided him and took him to his Guru Nammalvar who was sitting in Samadhi underneath a tamarind tree near Tinnevelly. Vilvamangal was very much attracted to Chintamani, the dancing woman. The latter became his Guru. Tulasidas received instructions from an invisible being to see Hanuman and, through Hanuman, to get Darshan of Sri Rama.

Competent disciples are never in want of a competent Guru. Realised souls are not rare. Ordinary ignorant-minded persons cannot easily recognise them. Only a few persons, who are pure and embodiments of all virtuous qualities, can understand realised souls, and they only will be benefited in their company.

So long as there is a world, there are Gurus and Vedas to guide the struggling souls in the path of Self-realisation. The number of realised souls may be less in the Iron Age when compared with the Satya Yuga (age of Truth), but they are always present to help the aspirants. Let each man take the path according to his capacity, temperament, and understanding. His Sadguru will meet him along that path.

SIKSHA GURUS AND DIKSHA GURU

Man has a twofold duty here on earth-to preserve his life, and to realise his Self. To preserve his life, he has to learn to work for his daily bread. To realise his Self, he has to serve, love, and meditate. The Guru who teaches him the knowledge of worldly arts is the Siksha Guru. The Guru who shows him the path of Realisation is the Diksha Guru. Siksha Gurus can be many-as many as the things he wishes to learn. The Diksha Guru can be only one-the one who leads him to Moksha.

STICK TO ONE GURU

Do not dig here and there shallow pits for getting water. The pits will dry up soon. Dig a very deep pit in one place. Centralise all your efforts here. You will get good water that can supply you throughout the year. Even so, try to imbibe thoroughly the spiritual teachings from one preceptor alone. Drink deep from one man. Sit at his feet for some years. There is no use of wandering from one man to another man, out of curiosity, losing faith in a short time. Do not have the ever-changing mind of a prostitute. Follow the spiritual instructions of one man only. If you go to several people and follow the instructions of many persons, you will be bewildered. You will be in a dilemma.

From a doctor, you get a prescription. From two doctors, you get consultation. From three doctors, you get your own cremation. Even so, if you have many Gurus, you will be bewildered. You will be at a loss to know what to do. One Guru will tell you: "Do Soham Japa". Another will tell you: "Do Japa of Sri Ram”. A third Guru will tell you: "Hear Anahat (mystic) sounds". You will be puzzled. Stick to one Guru and follow his instructions.

Listen to all, but follow one. Respect all, but adore one. Gather knowledge from all, but adopt the teachings of one Master. Then you will have rapid spiritual progress.

GURU-PARAMPARA

Spiritual knowledge is a matter of Guru-parampara. It is handed down from Guru to disciple. Gaudapadacharya imparted Self-knowledge to his disciple Govindacharya; Govindacharya to his disciple Sankaracharya; Sankaracharya to his disciple Suresvaracharya. Matsyendranath imparted knowledge to his disciple Gorakhnath; Gorakhnath to Nivrittinath; Nivrittinath to Jnanadeva. Totapuri imparted knowledge to Sri Ramakrishna, and Ramakrishna to Swami Vivekananda. It was Ashtavakra who moulded the life of Raja Janaka. It was Gorakhnath who shaped the spiritual destiny of Raja Bhartrihari. It was Lord Krishna who made Arjuna and Uddhava get themselves established in the spiritual path when their minds were in an unsettled state.

INITIATION-ITS MEANING

A Bhakta will be initiated by a Bhakta saint in the path of devotion. A Jnani will initiate a student of Vedanta in the Mahavakyas. A Hatha Yogi or a Raja Yogi can initiate another in his particular path. But, a sage of perfect realisation, a Purna-jnani (full-blown sage) or Purna-yogi, can give initiation in any particular path. A sage or saint like Sri Sankara or Madhusudana Sarasvati can initiate a Sadhak in any particular path for which the aspirant is fit. The Guru will find out by close study of the aspirant his tastes, temperaments, and capacity, and decide for him the most suitable path. If his heart is impure, the teacher will prescribe selfless service for a number of years. Then the Guru will find out for what particular path the student is fit and initiate him in that.

Initiation does not mean reciting a Mantra into another's ears. If Rama is influenced by the thoughts of Krishna, the former has got initiation already from the latter. If an aspirant treads the path of truth after studying the books written by a saint, and imbibes his teachings, that saint has already become his Guru.

SAKTI-SANCHAR

Just as you can give an orange to a man, so also, spiritual power can be transmitted by one to another. This method of transmitting spiritual powers is termed Sakti-sanchar. In Sakti-sanchar, a certain spiritual vibration of the Sadguru is actually transferred to the mind of the disciple.

Spiritual power is transmitted by the Guru to the proper disciple whom he considers fit for Sakti-sanchar. The Guru can transform the disciple by a look, a touch, a thought or a word, or mere willing.

Sakti-sanchar comes through Parampara. It is a hidden mystic science. It is handed down from Guru to disciple.

Lord Jesus, through touch, transmitted his spiritual power to some of his disciples. A disciple of Samartha Ramdas transmitted his power to that dancing girl's daughter who was very passionate towards him. The disciple gazed at her and gave her Samadhi. Her passion vanished. She became very religious and spiritual. Lord Krishna touched the blind eyes of Surdas. The inner eye of Surdas was opened. He had Bhava Samadhi. Lord Gouranga, through his touch, produced divine intoxication in many people and converted them to his side. Atheists even danced in ecstasy in the streets by his touch and sang songs of Hari.

The disciple should not rest satisfied with the transmission of power from the Guru. He will have to struggle hard in Sadhana for further perfection and attainments. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa touched Swami Vivekananda. Swami Vivekananda had superconscious experience. He struggled hard for seven years more, even after the touch, for attaining perfection.

GRACE AND SELF-EFFORT

Realisation cannot come to you as a miracle done by your Guru. Lord Buddha, Lord Jesus, Rama Tirtha have all done Sadhana. Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to develop Vairagya (dispassion) and Abhyasa (practice). He did not say to him, "I will give you Mukti(liberation) now". Therefore, abandon the wrong notion that your Guru will give you Samadhi and Mukti. Strive, purify, meditate, and realise.

Guru-kripa-grace of a Guru-is very necessary. That does not mean that the disciple should sit idle. He must do rigid Purushartha, spiritual practices. The whole work must be done by the student. Nowadays, people want a drop of water from the Kamandalu (water-pot) of a Sannyasin and desire to enter into Samadhi immediately. They are not prepared to undergo any Sadhana for purification and Self-realisation. They want a magic pill to push them into Samadhi. If you have got such delusion, give it up immediately.

The Guru and the Shastras can show you the path and remove your doubts. Anubhava (direct experience) of the Aparoksha kind or direct intuitive knowledge is left for your own experience. A hungry man will have to eat for himself. He who has a severe itching will have to scratch for himself.

No doubt, the Guru's blessing can do everything. But how can one have his blessings? By pleasing the Guru. A Guru can be pleased with his disciple only if the latter carries out his spiritual instructions implicitly. Carefully follow, therefore the instructions of the Guru. Act up to his instructions. Then only will you deserve his blessings, and then alone his blessings can do everything.
http://www.dlshq.org/books/es19.htm
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 30, 2010, 10:29:18 PM
INTRODUCTION

The Guru is God Himself manifesting in a personal form to guide the aspirant. Grace of God takes the form of the Guru. To see the Guru is to see God. The Guru is united with God. He inspires devotion in others. His presence purifies all.

The Guru is verily a link between the individual and the immortal. He is a being who has raised himself from this into That, and thus has free and unhampered access into both the realms. He stands, as it were, upon the threshold of immortality; and, bending down he raises the struggling individuals with his one hand, and with the other lifts them up into the empyrean of everlasting joy and infinite Truth-Consciousness.

THE SADGURU

To be a Guru, one must have a command from God.

Mere study of books cannot make one a Guru. One who has studied the Vedas, and who has direct knowledge of the Atman (Self) through Anubhava (experience), can alone be enrolled as a Guru. A Jivanmukta or liberated sage is the real Guru or spiritual preceptor. He is the Sadguru. He is identical with Brahman or the Supreme Self. He is a Knower of Brahman.

A Sadguru is endowed with countless Siddhis (psychic powers). He possesses all divine Aisvarya (powers), all the wealth of the Lord.

Possession of Siddhis, however, is not the test to declare the greatness of a sage or to prove that he has attained Self-realisation. Sadgurus generally do not exhibit any miracle or Siddhi. Sometimes, however, they may do so in order to convince the aspirants of the existence of superphysical things, give them encouragement, and instill faith in their hearts.

The Sadguru is Brahman Himself. He is an ocean of bliss, knowledge, and mercy. He is the captain of your soul. He is the fountain of joy. He removes all your troubles, sorrows, and obstacles. He shows you the right divine path.

He tears your veil of ignorance. He makes you immortal and divine. He transmutes your lower, diabolical nature. He gives you the rope of knowledge, and takes you up when you are drowning in this ocean of Samsara (cycle of birth and death). Do not consider him to be only a man. If you take him as a man, you are a beast. Worship your Guru and bow to him with reverence.

Guru is God. A word from him is a word from God. He need not-teach anything. Even his presence or company is elevating, inspiring, and stirring, His very company is self-illumination. Living in his company is spiritual education. Read the Granth-saheb (the holy scripture of the Sikh religion). You will come to know the greatness of the Guru.

Man can learn only from man, and hence God teaches through a human body. In your Guru, you have your human ideal of perfection. He is the pattern into which you wish to mould yourself. Your mind will readily be convinced that such a great soul, is fit to be worshipped and revered.

Guru is the Moksha-dvara (door to liberation). He is the gateway to the transcendental Truth-Consciousness. But, it is the aspirant who has to enter through it. The, Guru is a help, but the actual task of practical Sadhana (spiritual practice) falls on the aspirant himself.

THE NEED FOR A GURU

For a beginner in the spiritual path, a Guru is necessary. To light a candle, you need a burning candle. Even an illumined soul alone can enlighten another soul.

Some do meditation for some years independently. Later on, they actually feel the necessity of a Guru. They come across some obstacles in the way. They are unable to know how to obviate these impediments or stumbling blocks. Then they begin to search for a Master.

Only the man who has already been to Badrinath will be able to tell you the road. In the case of the spiritual path, it is still more difficult to find your way. The mind will mislead you very often. The Guru will be able to remove pitfalls and obstacles, and lead you along the right path. He will tell you: "This road leads you to Moksha (liberation); this one leads to bondage". Without this guidance, you might want to go to Badrinath, but find yourself in Delhi!

The scriptures are like a forest. There are ambiguous passages. There are passages which are apparently contradictory. There are passages which have esoteric meanings, diverse significance, and hidden explanations. There are cross-references. You are in need of a Guru or Preceptor who will explain to you the right meaning, who will remove doubts and ambiguities, who will place before you the essence of the teachings.

A Guru is absolutely necessary for every aspirant in the spiritual path. It is only the Guru who will find out your defects. The nature of egoism is such that you will not be able to find out your own defects. Just as a man cannot see his back, so also he cannot see his own errors. He must live under a Guru for the eradication of his evil qualities and defects.

The aspirant who is under the guidance of a Master or Guru is safe from being led astray. Satsanga or association with the Guru is an armour and fortress to guard you against all temptations and unfavourable forces of the material world.

Cases of those who had attained perfection without study under any Guru should not be cited as authority against the necessity of a Guru; for, such great men are the anomalies of spiritual life, and not the common normality. They come into existence as spiritual masters as a result of the intense service, study, and meditation practised in previous births. They had already studied under the Guru. The present birth is only its continuative spiritual effect. Hence, the importance of the Guru is not lessened thereby.

Some teachers mislead their aspirants. They say unto all: "Think for yourself. Do not surrender yourself to any Guru". When one says, "Do not follow any Guru!", he intends to be the listeners' Guru himself. Do not approach such pseudo-Gurus. Do not hear their lectures.

All great ones had their teachers. All the sages, saints, prophets, world- teachers, incarnations, great men, have had their own Gurus, however great they might have been. Svetaketu learnt the nature of Truth from Uddalaka, Maitreyi from Yajnavalkya, Bhrigu from Varuna, Narada from Sanatkumara, Nachiketas from Yama, Indra from Prajapati; and several others humbly went to wise ones, observed strict Brahmacharya, practised rigorous discipline, and learnt Brahma-vidya (the science of God) from them.

Lord Krishna sat at the feet of His Guru Sandeepani. Lord Rama had Guru Vasishtha who gave Him Upadesha (spiritual advice). Lord Jesus sought John to be baptised by him on the banks of the river Jordan. Even Devas (celestial beings) have Brihaspati as their Guru. Even the greatest among the divine beings sat at the feet of Guru Dakshinamurti.

A neophyte must have a personal Guru first. He cannot have God as Guru to begin with. He must have a pure mind. He must have ethical perfection. He, must be intensely virtuous. He must be above body-consciousness. Then alone can he have God as Guru.

HOW TO CHOOSE YOUR GURU

If you find peace in the presence of a Mahatma (great soul), if you are inspired by his speeches, if he is able to clear your doubts, if he is free, from greed, anger, and lust, if he is selfless, loving, and I-less, you can take him as your Guru. He who is able to clear your doubts, he who is sympathetic in your Sadhana, he who does not disturb your beliefs but helps you on from where you are, he in whose very presence you feel spiritually elevated-he is your Guru. Once you choose Your Guru, implicitly follow him. God will guide you through the Guru.

Do not use your reason too much in the selection of your Guru. You will fail if you do so. If you fail to get a first-class Guru, try to follow the instructions of the Sadhu (a spiritual person) who is treading the path for some years, who has purity and other virtuous qualities, and who has some knowledge of the scriptures. Just as a student of the Intermediate class will be able to teach a student of Third Form when a professor with M.A. qualification is not available, just as a sub-assistant surgeon will be able to attend on a patient when the civil surgeon is not available, this second- class type of Guru will be able to help you.

If you are not able to find out even this second-class type of Guru, you can follow the teachings contained in the books written by realised saints like Sri Sankara, Dattatreya, and others. You can keep a photo of such a realised Guru, if available, and worship the same with faith and devotion. Gradually you will get inspiration, and the Guru may appear in dream and initiate and inspire you at the proper time. For a sincere Sadhak (aspirant), help comes in a mysterious manner. When the time is ripe, the Guru and the disciple are brought together by the Lord in a mysterious way.

MYSTERIOUS HELP FROM THE LORD

Just see how the Lord has helped the devotees in the following instances. Eknath heard an Akasavani (a voice from the sky). It said, "See Janardan Pant at Deva Giri. He will put you in the proper path and guide you." Eknath acted accordingly and found his Guru. Tukaram received his Mantra, Rama Krishna Hari, in his dream. He repeated this Mantra and had Darshan (vision) of Lord Krishna. Lord Krishna directed Namdev to get his higher initiation from a Sannyasin (renunciate) at Mallikarjuna. Queen Chudalai assumed the form, of Kumbha Muni, appeared before her husband Sikhidhwaja in the forest, and initiated him in the mysteries of Kaivalya (state of absolute independence). Madhura Kavi saw a light in the firmament for three days consecutively. It guided him and took him to his Guru Nammalvar who was sitting in Samadhi underneath a tamarind tree near Tinnevelly. Vilvamangal was very much attracted to Chintamani, the dancing woman. The latter became his Guru. Tulasidas received instructions from an invisible being to see Hanuman and, through Hanuman, to get Darshan of Sri Rama.

Competent disciples are never in want of a competent Guru. Realised souls are not rare. Ordinary ignorant-minded persons cannot easily recognise them. Only a few persons, who are pure and embodiments of all virtuous qualities, can understand realised souls, and they only will be benefited in their company.

So long as there is a world, there are Gurus and Vedas to guide the struggling souls in the path of Self-realisation. The number of realised souls may be less in the Iron Age when compared with the Satya Yuga (age of Truth), but they are always present to help the aspirants. Let each man take the path according to his capacity, temperament, and understanding. His Sadguru will meet him along that path.

SIKSHA GURUS AND DIKSHA GURU

Man has a twofold duty here on earth-to preserve his life, and to realise his Self. To preserve his life, he has to learn to work for his daily bread. To realise his Self, he has to serve, love, and meditate. The Guru who teaches him the knowledge of worldly arts is the Siksha Guru. The Guru who shows him the path of Realisation is the Diksha Guru. Siksha Gurus can be many-as many as the things he wishes to learn. The Diksha Guru can be only one-the one who leads him to Moksha.

STICK TO ONE GURU

Do not dig here and there shallow pits for getting water. The pits will dry up soon. Dig a very deep pit in one place. Centralise all your efforts here. You will get good water that can supply you throughout the year. Even so, try to imbibe thoroughly the spiritual teachings from one preceptor alone. Drink deep from one man. Sit at his feet for some years. There is no use of wandering from one man to another man, out of curiosity, losing faith in a short time. Do not have the ever-changing mind of a prostitute. Follow the spiritual instructions of one man only. If you go to several people and follow the instructions of many persons, you will be bewildered. You will be in a dilemma.

From a doctor, you get a prescription. From two doctors, you get consultation. From three doctors, you get your own cremation. Even so, if you have many Gurus, you will be bewildered. You will be at a loss to know what to do. One Guru will tell you: "Do Soham Japa". Another will tell you: "Do Japa of Sri Ram”. A third Guru will tell you: "Hear Anahat (mystic) sounds". You will be puzzled. Stick to one Guru and follow his instructions.

Listen to all, but follow one. Respect all, but adore one. Gather knowledge from all, but adopt the teachings of one Master. Then you will have rapid spiritual progress.

GURU-PARAMPARA

Spiritual knowledge is a matter of Guru-parampara. It is handed down from Guru to disciple. Gaudapadacharya imparted Self-knowledge to his disciple Govindacharya; Govindacharya to his disciple Sankaracharya; Sankaracharya to his disciple Suresvaracharya. Matsyendranath imparted knowledge to his disciple Gorakhnath; Gorakhnath to Nivrittinath; Nivrittinath to Jnanadeva. Totapuri imparted knowledge to Sri Ramakrishna, and Ramakrishna to Swami Vivekananda. It was Ashtavakra who moulded the life of Raja Janaka. It was Gorakhnath who shaped the spiritual destiny of Raja Bhartrihari. It was Lord Krishna who made Arjuna and Uddhava get themselves established in the spiritual path when their minds were in an unsettled state.

INITIATION-ITS MEANING

A Bhakta will be initiated by a Bhakta saint in the path of devotion. A Jnani will initiate a student of Vedanta in the Mahavakyas. A Hatha Yogi or a Raja Yogi can initiate another in his particular path. But, a sage of perfect realisation, a Purna-jnani (full-blown sage) or Purna-yogi, can give initiation in any particular path. A sage or saint like Sri Sankara or Madhusudana Sarasvati can initiate a Sadhak in any particular path for which the aspirant is fit. The Guru will find out by close study of the aspirant his tastes, temperaments, and capacity, and decide for him the most suitable path. If his heart is impure, the teacher will prescribe selfless service for a number of years. Then the Guru will find out for what particular path the student is fit and initiate him in that.

Initiation does not mean reciting a Mantra into another's ears. If Rama is influenced by the thoughts of Krishna, the former has got initiation already from the latter. If an aspirant treads the path of truth after studying the books written by a saint, and imbibes his teachings, that saint has already become his Guru.

SAKTI-SANCHAR

Just as you can give an orange to a man, so also, spiritual power can be transmitted by one to another. This method of transmitting spiritual powers is termed Sakti-sanchar. In Sakti-sanchar, a certain spiritual vibration of the Sadguru is actually transferred to the mind of the disciple.

Spiritual power is transmitted by the Guru to the proper disciple whom he considers fit for Sakti-sanchar. The Guru can transform the disciple by a look, a touch, a thought or a word, or mere willing.

Sakti-sanchar comes through Parampara. It is a hidden mystic science. It is handed down from Guru to disciple.

Lord Jesus, through touch, transmitted his spiritual power to some of his disciples. A disciple of Samartha Ramdas transmitted his power to that dancing girl's daughter who was very passionate towards him. The disciple gazed at her and gave her Samadhi. Her passion vanished. She became very religious and spiritual. Lord Krishna touched the blind eyes of Surdas. The inner eye of Surdas was opened. He had Bhava Samadhi. Lord Gouranga, through his touch, produced divine intoxication in many people and converted them to his side. Atheists even danced in ecstasy in the streets by his touch and sang songs of Hari.

The disciple should not rest satisfied with the transmission of power from the Guru. He will have to struggle hard in Sadhana for further perfection and attainments. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa touched Swami Vivekananda. Swami Vivekananda had superconscious experience. He struggled hard for seven years more, even after the touch, for attaining perfection.

GRACE AND SELF-EFFORT

Realisation cannot come to you as a miracle done by your Guru. Lord Buddha, Lord Jesus, Rama Tirtha have all done Sadhana. Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to develop Vairagya (dispassion) and Abhyasa (practice). He did not say to him, "I will give you Mukti(liberation) now". Therefore, abandon the wrong notion that your Guru will give you Samadhi and Mukti. Strive, purify, meditate, and realise.

Guru-kripa-grace of a Guru-is very necessary. That does not mean that the disciple should sit idle. He must do rigid Purushartha, spiritual practices. The whole work must be done by the student. Nowadays, people want a drop of water from the Kamandalu (water-pot) of a Sannyasin and desire to enter into Samadhi immediately. They are not prepared to undergo any Sadhana for purification and Self-realisation. They want a magic pill to push them into Samadhi. If you have got such delusion, give it up immediately.

The Guru and the Shastras can show you the path and remove your doubts. Anubhava (direct experience) of the Aparoksha kind or direct intuitive knowledge is left for your own experience. A hungry man will have to eat for himself. He who has a severe itching will have to scratch for himself.

No doubt, the Guru's blessing can do everything. But how can one have his blessings? By pleasing the Guru. A Guru can be pleased with his disciple only if the latter carries out his spiritual instructions implicitly. Carefully follow, therefore the instructions of the Guru. Act up to his instructions. Then only will you deserve his blessings, and then alone his blessings can do everything.
http://www.dlshq.org/books/es19.htm
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 30, 2010, 10:30:07 PM
INTRODUCTION

The Guru is God Himself manifesting in a personal form to guide the aspirant. Grace of God takes the form of the Guru. To see the Guru is to see God. The Guru is united with God. He inspires devotion in others. His presence purifies all.

The Guru is verily a link between the individual and the immortal. He is a being who has raised himself from this into That, and thus has free and unhampered access into both the realms. He stands, as it were, upon the threshold of immortality; and, bending down he raises the struggling individuals with his one hand, and with the other lifts them up into the empyrean of everlasting joy and infinite Truth-Consciousness.

THE SADGURU

To be a Guru, one must have a command from God.

Mere study of books cannot make one a Guru. One who has studied the Vedas, and who has direct knowledge of the Atman (Self) through Anubhava (experience), can alone be enrolled as a Guru. A Jivanmukta or liberated sage is the real Guru or spiritual preceptor. He is the Sadguru. He is identical with Brahman or the Supreme Self. He is a Knower of Brahman.

A Sadguru is endowed with countless Siddhis (psychic powers). He possesses all divine Aisvarya (powers), all the wealth of the Lord.

Possession of Siddhis, however, is not the test to declare the greatness of a sage or to prove that he has attained Self-realisation. Sadgurus generally do not exhibit any miracle or Siddhi. Sometimes, however, they may do so in order to convince the aspirants of the existence of superphysical things, give them encouragement, and instill faith in their hearts.

The Sadguru is Brahman Himself. He is an ocean of bliss, knowledge, and mercy. He is the captain of your soul. He is the fountain of joy. He removes all your troubles, sorrows, and obstacles. He shows you the right divine path.

He tears your veil of ignorance. He makes you immortal and divine. He transmutes your lower, diabolical nature. He gives you the rope of knowledge, and takes you up when you are drowning in this ocean of Samsara (cycle of birth and death). Do not consider him to be only a man. If you take him as a man, you are a beast. Worship your Guru and bow to him with reverence.

Guru is God. A word from him is a word from God. He need not-teach anything. Even his presence or company is elevating, inspiring, and stirring, His very company is self-illumination. Living in his company is spiritual education. Read the Granth-saheb (the holy scripture of the Sikh religion). You will come to know the greatness of the Guru.

Man can learn only from man, and hence God teaches through a human body. In your Guru, you have your human ideal of perfection. He is the pattern into which you wish to mould yourself. Your mind will readily be convinced that such a great soul, is fit to be worshipped and revered.

Guru is the Moksha-dvara (door to liberation). He is the gateway to the transcendental Truth-Consciousness. But, it is the aspirant who has to enter through it. The, Guru is a help, but the actual task of practical Sadhana (spiritual practice) falls on the aspirant himself.

THE NEED FOR A GURU

For a beginner in the spiritual path, a Guru is necessary. To light a candle, you need a burning candle. Even an illumined soul alone can enlighten another soul.

Some do meditation for some years independently. Later on, they actually feel the necessity of a Guru. They come across some obstacles in the way. They are unable to know how to obviate these impediments or stumbling blocks. Then they begin to search for a Master.

Only the man who has already been to Badrinath will be able to tell you the road. In the case of the spiritual path, it is still more difficult to find your way. The mind will mislead you very often. The Guru will be able to remove pitfalls and obstacles, and lead you along the right path. He will tell you: "This road leads you to Moksha (liberation); this one leads to bondage". Without this guidance, you might want to go to Badrinath, but find yourself in Delhi!

The scriptures are like a forest. There are ambiguous passages. There are passages which are apparently contradictory. There are passages which have esoteric meanings, diverse significance, and hidden explanations. There are cross-references. You are in need of a Guru or Preceptor who will explain to you the right meaning, who will remove doubts and ambiguities, who will place before you the essence of the teachings.

A Guru is absolutely necessary for every aspirant in the spiritual path. It is only the Guru who will find out your defects. The nature of egoism is such that you will not be able to find out your own defects. Just as a man cannot see his back, so also he cannot see his own errors. He must live under a Guru for the eradication of his evil qualities and defects.

The aspirant who is under the guidance of a Master or Guru is safe from being led astray. Satsanga or association with the Guru is an armour and fortress to guard you against all temptations and unfavourable forces of the material world.

Cases of those who had attained perfection without study under any Guru should not be cited as authority against the necessity of a Guru; for, such great men are the anomalies of spiritual life, and not the common normality. They come into existence as spiritual masters as a result of the intense service, study, and meditation practised in previous births. They had already studied under the Guru. The present birth is only its continuative spiritual effect. Hence, the importance of the Guru is not lessened thereby.

Some teachers mislead their aspirants. They say unto all: "Think for yourself. Do not surrender yourself to any Guru". When one says, "Do not follow any Guru!", he intends to be the listeners' Guru himself. Do not approach such pseudo-Gurus. Do not hear their lectures.

All great ones had their teachers. All the sages, saints, prophets, world- teachers, incarnations, great men, have had their own Gurus, however great they might have been. Svetaketu learnt the nature of Truth from Uddalaka, Maitreyi from Yajnavalkya, Bhrigu from Varuna, Narada from Sanatkumara, Nachiketas from Yama, Indra from Prajapati; and several others humbly went to wise ones, observed strict Brahmacharya, practised rigorous discipline, and learnt Brahma-vidya (the science of God) from them.

Lord Krishna sat at the feet of His Guru Sandeepani. Lord Rama had Guru Vasishtha who gave Him Upadesha (spiritual advice). Lord Jesus sought John to be baptised by him on the banks of the river Jordan. Even Devas (celestial beings) have Brihaspati as their Guru. Even the greatest among the divine beings sat at the feet of Guru Dakshinamurti.

A neophyte must have a personal Guru first. He cannot have God as Guru to begin with. He must have a pure mind. He must have ethical perfection. He, must be intensely virtuous. He must be above body-consciousness. Then alone can he have God as Guru.

HOW TO CHOOSE YOUR GURU

If you find peace in the presence of a Mahatma (great soul), if you are inspired by his speeches, if he is able to clear your doubts, if he is free, from greed, anger, and lust, if he is selfless, loving, and I-less, you can take him as your Guru. He who is able to clear your doubts, he who is sympathetic in your Sadhana, he who does not disturb your beliefs but helps you on from where you are, he in whose very presence you feel spiritually elevated-he is your Guru. Once you choose Your Guru, implicitly follow him. God will guide you through the Guru.

Do not use your reason too much in the selection of your Guru. You will fail if you do so. If you fail to get a first-class Guru, try to follow the instructions of the Sadhu (a spiritual person) who is treading the path for some years, who has purity and other virtuous qualities, and who has some knowledge of the scriptures. Just as a student of the Intermediate class will be able to teach a student of Third Form when a professor with M.A. qualification is not available, just as a sub-assistant surgeon will be able to attend on a patient when the civil surgeon is not available, this second- class type of Guru will be able to help you.

If you are not able to find out even this second-class type of Guru, you can follow the teachings contained in the books written by realised saints like Sri Sankara, Dattatreya, and others. You can keep a photo of such a realised Guru, if available, and worship the same with faith and devotion. Gradually you will get inspiration, and the Guru may appear in dream and initiate and inspire you at the proper time. For a sincere Sadhak (aspirant), help comes in a mysterious manner. When the time is ripe, the Guru and the disciple are brought together by the Lord in a mysterious way.

MYSTERIOUS HELP FROM THE LORD

Just see how the Lord has helped the devotees in the following instances. Eknath heard an Akasavani (a voice from the sky). It said, "See Janardan Pant at Deva Giri. He will put you in the proper path and guide you." Eknath acted accordingly and found his Guru. Tukaram received his Mantra, Rama Krishna Hari, in his dream. He repeated this Mantra and had Darshan (vision) of Lord Krishna. Lord Krishna directed Namdev to get his higher initiation from a Sannyasin (renunciate) at Mallikarjuna. Queen Chudalai assumed the form, of Kumbha Muni, appeared before her husband Sikhidhwaja in the forest, and initiated him in the mysteries of Kaivalya (state of absolute independence). Madhura Kavi saw a light in the firmament for three days consecutively. It guided him and took him to his Guru Nammalvar who was sitting in Samadhi underneath a tamarind tree near Tinnevelly. Vilvamangal was very much attracted to Chintamani, the dancing woman. The latter became his Guru. Tulasidas received instructions from an invisible being to see Hanuman and, through Hanuman, to get Darshan of Sri Rama.

Competent disciples are never in want of a competent Guru. Realised souls are not rare. Ordinary ignorant-minded persons cannot easily recognise them. Only a few persons, who are pure and embodiments of all virtuous qualities, can understand realised souls, and they only will be benefited in their company.

So long as there is a world, there are Gurus and Vedas to guide the struggling souls in the path of Self-realisation. The number of realised souls may be less in the Iron Age when compared with the Satya Yuga (age of Truth), but they are always present to help the aspirants. Let each man take the path according to his capacity, temperament, and understanding. His Sadguru will meet him along that path.

SIKSHA GURUS AND DIKSHA GURU

Man has a twofold duty here on earth-to preserve his life, and to realise his Self. To preserve his life, he has to learn to work for his daily bread. To realise his Self, he has to serve, love, and meditate. The Guru who teaches him the knowledge of worldly arts is the Siksha Guru. The Guru who shows him the path of Realisation is the Diksha Guru. Siksha Gurus can be many-as many as the things he wishes to learn. The Diksha Guru can be only one-the one who leads him to Moksha.

STICK TO ONE GURU

Do not dig here and there shallow pits for getting water. The pits will dry up soon. Dig a very deep pit in one place. Centralise all your efforts here. You will get good water that can supply you throughout the year. Even so, try to imbibe thoroughly the spiritual teachings from one preceptor alone. Drink deep from one man. Sit at his feet for some years. There is no use of wandering from one man to another man, out of curiosity, losing faith in a short time. Do not have the ever-changing mind of a prostitute. Follow the spiritual instructions of one man only. If you go to several people and follow the instructions of many persons, you will be bewildered. You will be in a dilemma.

From a doctor, you get a prescription. From two doctors, you get consultation. From three doctors, you get your own cremation. Even so, if you have many Gurus, you will be bewildered. You will be at a loss to know what to do. One Guru will tell you: "Do Soham Japa". Another will tell you: "Do Japa of Sri Ram”. A third Guru will tell you: "Hear Anahat (mystic) sounds". You will be puzzled. Stick to one Guru and follow his instructions.

Listen to all, but follow one. Respect all, but adore one. Gather knowledge from all, but adopt the teachings of one Master. Then you will have rapid spiritual progress.

GURU-PARAMPARA

Spiritual knowledge is a matter of Guru-parampara. It is handed down from Guru to disciple. Gaudapadacharya imparted Self-knowledge to his disciple Govindacharya; Govindacharya to his disciple Sankaracharya; Sankaracharya to his disciple Suresvaracharya. Matsyendranath imparted knowledge to his disciple Gorakhnath; Gorakhnath to Nivrittinath; Nivrittinath to Jnanadeva. Totapuri imparted knowledge to Sri Ramakrishna, and Ramakrishna to Swami Vivekananda. It was Ashtavakra who moulded the life of Raja Janaka. It was Gorakhnath who shaped the spiritual destiny of Raja Bhartrihari. It was Lord Krishna who made Arjuna and Uddhava get themselves established in the spiritual path when their minds were in an unsettled state.

INITIATION-ITS MEANING

A Bhakta will be initiated by a Bhakta saint in the path of devotion. A Jnani will initiate a student of Vedanta in the Mahavakyas. A Hatha Yogi or a Raja Yogi can initiate another in his particular path. But, a sage of perfect realisation, a Purna-jnani (full-blown sage) or Purna-yogi, can give initiation in any particular path. A sage or saint like Sri Sankara or Madhusudana Sarasvati can initiate a Sadhak in any particular path for which the aspirant is fit. The Guru will find out by close study of the aspirant his tastes, temperaments, and capacity, and decide for him the most suitable path. If his heart is impure, the teacher will prescribe selfless service for a number of years. Then the Guru will find out for what particular path the student is fit and initiate him in that.

Initiation does not mean reciting a Mantra into another's ears. If Rama is influenced by the thoughts of Krishna, the former has got initiation already from the latter. If an aspirant treads the path of truth after studying the books written by a saint, and imbibes his teachings, that saint has already become his Guru.

SAKTI-SANCHAR

Just as you can give an orange to a man, so also, spiritual power can be transmitted by one to another. This method of transmitting spiritual powers is termed Sakti-sanchar. In Sakti-sanchar, a certain spiritual vibration of the Sadguru is actually transferred to the mind of the disciple.

Spiritual power is transmitted by the Guru to the proper disciple whom he considers fit for Sakti-sanchar. The Guru can transform the disciple by a look, a touch, a thought or a word, or mere willing.

Sakti-sanchar comes through Parampara. It is a hidden mystic science. It is handed down from Guru to disciple.

Lord Jesus, through touch, transmitted his spiritual power to some of his disciples. A disciple of Samartha Ramdas transmitted his power to that dancing girl's daughter who was very passionate towards him. The disciple gazed at her and gave her Samadhi. Her passion vanished. She became very religious and spiritual. Lord Krishna touched the blind eyes of Surdas. The inner eye of Surdas was opened. He had Bhava Samadhi. Lord Gouranga, through his touch, produced divine intoxication in many people and converted them to his side. Atheists even danced in ecstasy in the streets by his touch and sang songs of Hari.

The disciple should not rest satisfied with the transmission of power from the Guru. He will have to struggle hard in Sadhana for further perfection and attainments. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa touched Swami Vivekananda. Swami Vivekananda had superconscious experience. He struggled hard for seven years more, even after the touch, for attaining perfection.

GRACE AND SELF-EFFORT

Realisation cannot come to you as a miracle done by your Guru. Lord Buddha, Lord Jesus, Rama Tirtha have all done Sadhana. Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to develop Vairagya (dispassion) and Abhyasa (practice). He did not say to him, "I will give you Mukti(liberation) now". Therefore, abandon the wrong notion that your Guru will give you Samadhi and Mukti. Strive, purify, meditate, and realise.

Guru-kripa-grace of a Guru-is very necessary. That does not mean that the disciple should sit idle. He must do rigid Purushartha, spiritual practices. The whole work must be done by the student. Nowadays, people want a drop of water from the Kamandalu (water-pot) of a Sannyasin and desire to enter into Samadhi immediately. They are not prepared to undergo any Sadhana for purification and Self-realisation. They want a magic pill to push them into Samadhi. If you have got such delusion, give it up immediately.

The Guru and the Shastras can show you the path and remove your doubts. Anubhava (direct experience) of the Aparoksha kind or direct intuitive knowledge is left for your own experience. A hungry man will have to eat for himself. He who has a severe itching will have to scratch for himself.

No doubt, the Guru's blessing can do everything. But how can one have his blessings? By pleasing the Guru. A Guru can be pleased with his disciple only if the latter carries out his spiritual instructions implicitly. Carefully follow, therefore the instructions of the Guru. Act up to his instructions. Then only will you deserve his blessings, and then alone his blessings can do everything. ..
http://www.dlshq.org/books/es19.htm
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 30, 2010, 10:30:54 PM
INTRODUCTION

The Guru is God Himself manifesting in a personal form to guide the aspirant. Grace of God takes the form of the Guru. To see the Guru is to see God. The Guru is united with God. He inspires devotion in others. His presence purifies all.

The Guru is verily a link between the individual and the immortal. He is a being who has raised himself from this into That, and thus has free and unhampered access into both the realms. He stands, as it were, upon the threshold of immortality; and, bending down he raises the struggling individuals with his one hand, and with the other lifts them up into the empyrean of everlasting joy and infinite Truth-Consciousness.

THE SADGURU

To be a Guru, one must have a command from God.

Mere study of books cannot make one a Guru. One who has studied the Vedas, and who has direct knowledge of the Atman (Self) through Anubhava (experience), can alone be enrolled as a Guru. A Jivanmukta or liberated sage is the real Guru or spiritual preceptor. He is the Sadguru. He is identical with Brahman or the Supreme Self. He is a Knower of Brahman.

A Sadguru is endowed with countless Siddhis (psychic powers). He possesses all divine Aisvarya (powers), all the wealth of the Lord.

Possession of Siddhis, however, is not the test to declare the greatness of a sage or to prove that he has attained Self-realisation. Sadgurus generally do not exhibit any miracle or Siddhi. Sometimes, however, they may do so in order to convince the aspirants of the existence of superphysical things, give them encouragement, and instill faith in their hearts.

The Sadguru is Brahman Himself. He is an ocean of bliss, knowledge, and mercy. He is the captain of your soul. He is the fountain of joy. He removes all your troubles, sorrows, and obstacles. He shows you the right divine path.

He tears your veil of ignorance. He makes you immortal and divine. He transmutes your lower, diabolical nature. He gives you the rope of knowledge, and takes you up when you are drowning in this ocean of Samsara (cycle of birth and death). Do not consider him to be only a man. If you take him as a man, you are a beast. Worship your Guru and bow to him with reverence.

Guru is God. A word from him is a word from God. He need not-teach anything. Even his presence or company is elevating, inspiring, and stirring, His very company is self-illumination. Living in his company is spiritual education. Read the Granth-saheb (the holy scripture of the Sikh religion). You will come to know the greatness of the Guru.

Man can learn only from man, and hence God teaches through a human body. In your Guru, you have your human ideal of perfection. He is the pattern into which you wish to mould yourself. Your mind will readily be convinced that such a great soul, is fit to be worshipped and revered.

Guru is the Moksha-dvara (door to liberation). He is the gateway to the transcendental Truth-Consciousness. But, it is the aspirant who has to enter through it. The, Guru is a help, but the actual task of practical Sadhana (spiritual practice) falls on the aspirant himself.

THE NEED FOR A GURU

For a beginner in the spiritual path, a Guru is necessary. To light a candle, you need a burning candle. Even an illumined soul alone can enlighten another soul.

Some do meditation for some years independently. Later on, they actually feel the necessity of a Guru. They come across some obstacles in the way. They are unable to know how to obviate these impediments or stumbling blocks. Then they begin to search for a Master.

Only the man who has already been to Badrinath will be able to tell you the road. In the case of the spiritual path, it is still more difficult to find your way. The mind will mislead you very often. The Guru will be able to remove pitfalls and obstacles, and lead you along the right path. He will tell you: "This road leads you to Moksha (liberation); this one leads to bondage". Without this guidance, you might want to go to Badrinath, but find yourself in Delhi!

The scriptures are like a forest. There are ambiguous passages. There are passages which are apparently contradictory. There are passages which have esoteric meanings, diverse significance, and hidden explanations. There are cross-references. You are in need of a Guru or Preceptor who will explain to you the right meaning, who will remove doubts and ambiguities, who will place before you the essence of the teachings.

A Guru is absolutely necessary for every aspirant in the spiritual path. It is only the Guru who will find out your defects. The nature of egoism is such that you will not be able to find out your own defects. Just as a man cannot see his back, so also he cannot see his own errors. He must live under a Guru for the eradication of his evil qualities and defects.

The aspirant who is under the guidance of a Master or Guru is safe from being led astray. Satsanga or association with the Guru is an armour and fortress to guard you against all temptations and unfavourable forces of the material world.

Cases of those who had attained perfection without study under any Guru should not be cited as authority against the necessity of a Guru; for, such great men are the anomalies of spiritual life, and not the common normality. They come into existence as spiritual masters as a result of the intense service, study, and meditation practised in previous births. They had already studied under the Guru. The present birth is only its continuative spiritual effect. Hence, the importance of the Guru is not lessened thereby.

Some teachers mislead their aspirants. They say unto all: "Think for yourself. Do not surrender yourself to any Guru". When one says, "Do not follow any Guru!", he intends to be the listeners' Guru himself. Do not approach such pseudo-Gurus. Do not hear their lectures.

All great ones had their teachers. All the sages, saints, prophets, world- teachers, incarnations, great men, have had their own Gurus, however great they might have been. Svetaketu learnt the nature of Truth from Uddalaka, Maitreyi from Yajnavalkya, Bhrigu from Varuna, Narada from Sanatkumara, Nachiketas from Yama, Indra from Prajapati; and several others humbly went to wise ones, observed strict Brahmacharya, practised rigorous discipline, and learnt Brahma-vidya (the science of God) from them.

Lord Krishna sat at the feet of His Guru Sandeepani. Lord Rama had Guru Vasishtha who gave Him Upadesha (spiritual advice). Lord Jesus sought John to be baptised by him on the banks of the river Jordan. Even Devas (celestial beings) have Brihaspati as their Guru. Even the greatest among the divine beings sat at the feet of Guru Dakshinamurti.

A neophyte must have a personal Guru first. He cannot have God as Guru to begin with. He must have a pure mind. He must have ethical perfection. He, must be intensely virtuous. He must be above body-consciousness. Then alone can he have God as Guru.

HOW TO CHOOSE YOUR GURU

If you find peace in the presence of a Mahatma (great soul), if you are inspired by his speeches, if he is able to clear your doubts, if he is free, from greed, anger, and lust, if he is selfless, loving, and I-less, you can take him as your Guru. He who is able to clear your doubts, he who is sympathetic in your Sadhana, he who does not disturb your beliefs but helps you on from where you are, he in whose very presence you feel spiritually elevated-he is your Guru. Once you choose Your Guru, implicitly follow him. God will guide you through the Guru.

Do not use your reason too much in the selection of your Guru. You will fail if you do so. If you fail to get a first-class Guru, try to follow the instructions of the Sadhu (a spiritual person) who is treading the path for some years, who has purity and other virtuous qualities, and who has some knowledge of the scriptures. Just as a student of the Intermediate class will be able to teach a student of Third Form when a professor with M.A. qualification is not available, just as a sub-assistant surgeon will be able to attend on a patient when the civil surgeon is not available, this second- class type of Guru will be able to help you.

If you are not able to find out even this second-class type of Guru, you can follow the teachings contained in the books written by realised saints like Sri Sankara, Dattatreya, and others. You can keep a photo of such a realised Guru, if available, and worship the same with faith and devotion. Gradually you will get inspiration, and the Guru may appear in dream and initiate and inspire you at the proper time. For a sincere Sadhak (aspirant), help comes in a mysterious manner. When the time is ripe, the Guru and the disciple are brought together by the Lord in a mysterious way.

MYSTERIOUS HELP FROM THE LORD

Just see how the Lord has helped the devotees in the following instances. Eknath heard an Akasavani (a voice from the sky). It said, "See Janardan Pant at Deva Giri. He will put you in the proper path and guide you." Eknath acted accordingly and found his Guru. Tukaram received his Mantra, Rama Krishna Hari, in his dream. He repeated this Mantra and had Darshan (vision) of Lord Krishna. Lord Krishna directed Namdev to get his higher initiation from a Sannyasin (renunciate) at Mallikarjuna. Queen Chudalai assumed the form, of Kumbha Muni, appeared before her husband Sikhidhwaja in the forest, and initiated him in the mysteries of Kaivalya (state of absolute independence). Madhura Kavi saw a light in the firmament for three days consecutively. It guided him and took him to his Guru Nammalvar who was sitting in Samadhi underneath a tamarind tree near Tinnevelly. Vilvamangal was very much attracted to Chintamani, the dancing woman. The latter became his Guru. Tulasidas received instructions from an invisible being to see Hanuman and, through Hanuman, to get Darshan of Sri Rama.

Competent disciples are never in want of a competent Guru. Realised souls are not rare. Ordinary ignorant-minded persons cannot easily recognise them. Only a few persons, who are pure and embodiments of all virtuous qualities, can understand realised souls, and they only will be benefited in their company.

So long as there is a world, there are Gurus and Vedas to guide the struggling souls in the path of Self-realisation. The number of realised souls may be less in the Iron Age when compared with the Satya Yuga (age of Truth), but they are always present to help the aspirants. Let each man take the path according to his capacity, temperament, and understanding. His Sadguru will meet him along that path.

SIKSHA GURUS AND DIKSHA GURU

Man has a twofold duty here on earth-to preserve his life, and to realise his Self. To preserve his life, he has to learn to work for his daily bread. To realise his Self, he has to serve, love, and meditate. The Guru who teaches him the knowledge of worldly arts is the Siksha Guru. The Guru who shows him the path of Realisation is the Diksha Guru. Siksha Gurus can be many-as many as the things he wishes to learn. The Diksha Guru can be only one-the one who leads him to Moksha.

STICK TO ONE GURU

Do not dig here and there shallow pits for getting water. The pits will dry up soon. Dig a very deep pit in one place. Centralise all your efforts here. You will get good water that can supply you throughout the year. Even so, try to imbibe thoroughly the spiritual teachings from one preceptor alone. Drink deep from one man. Sit at his feet for some years. There is no use of wandering from one man to another man, out of curiosity, losing faith in a short time. Do not have the ever-changing mind of a prostitute. Follow the spiritual instructions of one man only. If you go to several people and follow the instructions of many persons, you will be bewildered. You will be in a dilemma.

From a doctor, you get a prescription. From two doctors, you get consultation. From three doctors, you get your own cremation. Even so, if you have many Gurus, you will be bewildered. You will be at a loss to know what to do. One Guru will tell you: "Do Soham Japa". Another will tell you: "Do Japa of Sri Ram”. A third Guru will tell you: "Hear Anahat (mystic) sounds". You will be puzzled. Stick to one Guru and follow his instructions.

Listen to all, but follow one. Respect all, but adore one. Gather knowledge from all, but adopt the teachings of one Master. Then you will have rapid spiritual progress.

GURU-PARAMPARA

Spiritual knowledge is a matter of Guru-parampara. It is handed down from Guru to disciple. Gaudapadacharya imparted Self-knowledge to his disciple Govindacharya; Govindacharya to his disciple Sankaracharya; Sankaracharya to his disciple Suresvaracharya. Matsyendranath imparted knowledge to his disciple Gorakhnath; Gorakhnath to Nivrittinath; Nivrittinath to Jnanadeva. Totapuri imparted knowledge to Sri Ramakrishna, and Ramakrishna to Swami Vivekananda. It was Ashtavakra who moulded the life of Raja Janaka. It was Gorakhnath who shaped the spiritual destiny of Raja Bhartrihari. It was Lord Krishna who made Arjuna and Uddhava get themselves established in the spiritual path when their minds were in an unsettled state.

INITIATION-ITS MEANING

A Bhakta will be initiated by a Bhakta saint in the path of devotion. A Jnani will initiate a student of Vedanta in the Mahavakyas. A Hatha Yogi or a Raja Yogi can initiate another in his particular path. But, a sage of perfect realisation, a Purna-jnani (full-blown sage) or Purna-yogi, can give initiation in any particular path. A sage or saint like Sri Sankara or Madhusudana Sarasvati can initiate a Sadhak in any particular path for which the aspirant is fit. The Guru will find out by close study of the aspirant his tastes, temperaments, and capacity, and decide for him the most suitable path. If his heart is impure, the teacher will prescribe selfless service for a number of years. Then the Guru will find out for what particular path the student is fit and initiate him in that.

Initiation does not mean reciting a Mantra into another's ears. If Rama is influenced by the thoughts of Krishna, the former has got initiation already from the latter. If an aspirant treads the path of truth after studying the books written by a saint, and imbibes his teachings, that saint has already become his Guru.

SAKTI-SANCHAR

Just as you can give an orange to a man, so also, spiritual power can be transmitted by one to another. This method of transmitting spiritual powers is termed Sakti-sanchar. In Sakti-sanchar, a certain spiritual vibration of the Sadguru is actually transferred to the mind of the disciple.

Spiritual power is transmitted by the Guru to the proper disciple whom he considers fit for Sakti-sanchar. The Guru can transform the disciple by a look, a touch, a thought or a word, or mere willing.

Sakti-sanchar comes through Parampara. It is a hidden mystic science. It is handed down from Guru to disciple.

Lord Jesus, through touch, transmitted his spiritual power to some of his disciples. A disciple of Samartha Ramdas transmitted his power to that dancing girl's daughter who was very passionate towards him. The disciple gazed at her and gave her Samadhi. Her passion vanished. She became very religious and spiritual. Lord Krishna touched the blind eyes of Surdas. The inner eye of Surdas was opened. He had Bhava Samadhi. Lord Gouranga, through his touch, produced divine intoxication in many people and converted them to his side. Atheists even danced in ecstasy in the streets by his touch and sang songs of Hari.

The disciple should not rest satisfied with the transmission of power from the Guru. He will have to struggle hard in Sadhana for further perfection and attainments. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa touched Swami Vivekananda. Swami Vivekananda had superconscious experience. He struggled hard for seven years more, even after the touch, for attaining perfection.

GRACE AND SELF-EFFORT

Realisation cannot come to you as a miracle done by your Guru. Lord Buddha, Lord Jesus, Rama Tirtha have all done Sadhana. Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to develop Vairagya (dispassion) and Abhyasa (practice). He did not say to him, "I will give you Mukti(liberation) now". Therefore, abandon the wrong notion that your Guru will give you Samadhi and Mukti. Strive, purify, meditate, and realise.

Guru-kripa-grace of a Guru-is very necessary. That does not mean that the disciple should sit idle. He must do rigid Purushartha, spiritual practices. The whole work must be done by the student. Nowadays, people want a drop of water from the Kamandalu (water-pot) of a Sannyasin and desire to enter into Samadhi immediately. They are not prepared to undergo any Sadhana for purification and Self-realisation. They want a magic pill to push them into Samadhi. If you have got such delusion, give it up immediately.

The Guru and the Shastras can show you the path and remove your doubts. Anubhava (direct experience) of the Aparoksha kind or direct intuitive knowledge is left for your own experience. A hungry man will have to eat for himself. He who has a severe itching will have to scratch for himself.

No doubt, the Guru's blessing can do everything. But how can one have his blessings? By pleasing the Guru. A Guru can be pleased with his disciple only if the latter carries out his spiritual instructions implicitly. Carefully follow, therefore the instructions of the Guru. Act up to his instructions. Then only will you deserve his blessings, and then alone his blessings can do everything.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 30, 2010, 10:31:28 PM
INTRODUCTION

The Guru is God Himself manifesting in a personal form to guide the aspirant. Grace of God takes the form of the Guru. To see the Guru is to see God. The Guru is united with God. He inspires devotion in others. His presence purifies all.

The Guru is verily a link between the individual and the immortal. He is a being who has raised himself from this into That, and thus has free and unhampered access into both the realms. He stands, as it were, upon the threshold of immortality; and, bending down he raises the struggling individuals with his one hand, and with the other lifts them up into the empyrean of everlasting joy and infinite Truth-Consciousness.

THE SADGURU

To be a Guru, one must have a command from God.

Mere study of books cannot make one a Guru. One who has studied the Vedas, and who has direct knowledge of the Atman (Self) through Anubhava (experience), can alone be enrolled as a Guru. A Jivanmukta or liberated sage is the real Guru or spiritual preceptor. He is the Sadguru. He is identical with Brahman or the Supreme Self. He is a Knower of Brahman.

A Sadguru is endowed with countless Siddhis (psychic powers). He possesses all divine Aisvarya (powers), all the wealth of the Lord.

Possession of Siddhis, however, is not the test to declare the greatness of a sage or to prove that he has attained Self-realisation. Sadgurus generally do not exhibit any miracle or Siddhi. Sometimes, however, they may do so in order to convince the aspirants of the existence of superphysical things, give them encouragement, and instill faith in their hearts.

The Sadguru is Brahman Himself. He is an ocean of bliss, knowledge, and mercy. He is the captain of your soul. He is the fountain of joy. He removes all your troubles, sorrows, and obstacles. He shows you the right divine path.

He tears your veil of ignorance. He makes you immortal and divine. He transmutes your lower, diabolical nature. He gives you the rope of knowledge, and takes you up when you are drowning in this ocean of Samsara (cycle of birth and death). Do not consider him to be only a man. If you take him as a man, you are a beast. Worship your Guru and bow to him with reverence.

Guru is God. A word from him is a word from God. He need not-teach anything. Even his presence or company is elevating, inspiring, and stirring, His very company is self-illumination. Living in his company is spiritual education. Read the Granth-saheb (the holy scripture of the Sikh religion). You will come to know the greatness of the Guru.

Man can learn only from man, and hence God teaches through a human body. In your Guru, you have your human ideal of perfection. He is the pattern into which you wish to mould yourself. Your mind will readily be convinced that such a great soul, is fit to be worshipped and revered.

Guru is the Moksha-dvara (door to liberation). He is the gateway to the transcendental Truth-Consciousness. But, it is the aspirant who has to enter through it. The, Guru is a help, but the actual task of practical Sadhana (spiritual practice) falls on the aspirant himself.

THE NEED FOR A GURU

For a beginner in the spiritual path, a Guru is necessary. To light a candle, you need a burning candle. Even an illumined soul alone can enlighten another soul.

Some do meditation for some years independently. Later on, they actually feel the necessity of a Guru. They come across some obstacles in the way. They are unable to know how to obviate these impediments or stumbling blocks. Then they begin to search for a Master.

Only the man who has already been to Badrinath will be able to tell you the road. In the case of the spiritual path, it is still more difficult to find your way. The mind will mislead you very often. The Guru will be able to remove pitfalls and obstacles, and lead you along the right path. He will tell you: "This road leads you to Moksha (liberation); this one leads to bondage". Without this guidance, you might want to go to Badrinath, but find yourself in Delhi!

The scriptures are like a forest. There are ambiguous passages. There are passages which are apparently contradictory. There are passages which have esoteric meanings, diverse significance, and hidden explanations. There are cross-references. You are in need of a Guru or Preceptor who will explain to you the right meaning, who will remove doubts and ambiguities, who will place before you the essence of the teachings.

A Guru is absolutely necessary for every aspirant in the spiritual path. It is only the Guru who will find out your defects. The nature of egoism is such that you will not be able to find out your own defects. Just as a man cannot see his back, so also he cannot see his own errors. He must live under a Guru for the eradication of his evil qualities and defects.

The aspirant who is under the guidance of a Master or Guru is safe from being led astray. Satsanga or association with the Guru is an armour and fortress to guard you against all temptations and unfavourable forces of the material world.

Cases of those who had attained perfection without study under any Guru should not be cited as authority against the necessity of a Guru; for, such great men are the anomalies of spiritual life, and not the common normality. They come into existence as spiritual masters as a result of the intense service, study, and meditation practised in previous births. They had already studied under the Guru. The present birth is only its continuative spiritual effect. Hence, the importance of the Guru is not lessened thereby.

Some teachers mislead their aspirants. They say unto all: "Think for yourself. Do not surrender yourself to any Guru". When one says, "Do not follow any Guru!", he intends to be the listeners' Guru himself. Do not approach such pseudo-Gurus. Do not hear their lectures.

All great ones had their teachers. All the sages, saints, prophets, world- teachers, incarnations, great men, have had their own Gurus, however great they might have been. Svetaketu learnt the nature of Truth from Uddalaka, Maitreyi from Yajnavalkya, Bhrigu from Varuna, Narada from Sanatkumara, Nachiketas from Yama, Indra from Prajapati; and several others humbly went to wise ones, observed strict Brahmacharya, practised rigorous discipline, and learnt Brahma-vidya (the science of God) from them.

Lord Krishna sat at the feet of His Guru Sandeepani. Lord Rama had Guru Vasishtha who gave Him Upadesha (spiritual advice). Lord Jesus sought John to be baptised by him on the banks of the river Jordan. Even Devas (celestial beings) have Brihaspati as their Guru. Even the greatest among the divine beings sat at the feet of Guru Dakshinamurti.

A neophyte must have a personal Guru first. He cannot have God as Guru to begin with. He must have a pure mind. He must have ethical perfection. He, must be intensely virtuous. He must be above body-consciousness. Then alone can he have God as Guru.

HOW TO CHOOSE YOUR GURU

If you find peace in the presence of a Mahatma (great soul), if you are inspired by his speeches, if he is able to clear your doubts, if he is free, from greed, anger, and lust, if he is selfless, loving, and I-less, you can take him as your Guru. He who is able to clear your doubts, he who is sympathetic in your Sadhana, he who does not disturb your beliefs but helps you on from where you are, he in whose very presence you feel spiritually elevated-he is your Guru. Once you choose Your Guru, implicitly follow him. God will guide you through the Guru.

Do not use your reason too much in the selection of your Guru. You will fail if you do so. If you fail to get a first-class Guru, try to follow the instructions of the Sadhu (a spiritual person) who is treading the path for some years, who has purity and other virtuous qualities, and who has some knowledge of the scriptures. Just as a student of the Intermediate class will be able to teach a student of Third Form when a professor with M.A. qualification is not available, just as a sub-assistant surgeon will be able to attend on a patient when the civil surgeon is not available, this second- class type of Guru will be able to help you.

If you are not able to find out even this second-class type of Guru, you can follow the teachings contained in the books written by realised saints like Sri Sankara, Dattatreya, and others. You can keep a photo of such a realised Guru, if available, and worship the same with faith and devotion. Gradually you will get inspiration, and the Guru may appear in dream and initiate and inspire you at the proper time. For a sincere Sadhak (aspirant), help comes in a mysterious manner. When the time is ripe, the Guru and the disciple are brought together by the Lord in a mysterious way.

MYSTERIOUS HELP FROM THE LORD

Just see how the Lord has helped the devotees in the following instances. Eknath heard an Akasavani (a voice from the sky). It said, "See Janardan Pant at Deva Giri. He will put you in the proper path and guide you." Eknath acted accordingly and found his Guru. Tukaram received his Mantra, Rama Krishna Hari, in his dream. He repeated this Mantra and had Darshan (vision) of Lord Krishna. Lord Krishna directed Namdev to get his higher initiation from a Sannyasin (renunciate) at Mallikarjuna. Queen Chudalai assumed the form, of Kumbha Muni, appeared before her husband Sikhidhwaja in the forest, and initiated him in the mysteries of Kaivalya (state of absolute independence). Madhura Kavi saw a light in the firmament for three days consecutively. It guided him and took him to his Guru Nammalvar who was sitting in Samadhi underneath a tamarind tree near Tinnevelly. Vilvamangal was very much attracted to Chintamani, the dancing woman. The latter became his Guru. Tulasidas received instructions from an invisible being to see Hanuman and, through Hanuman, to get Darshan of Sri Rama.

Competent disciples are never in want of a competent Guru. Realised souls are not rare. Ordinary ignorant-minded persons cannot easily recognise them. Only a few persons, who are pure and embodiments of all virtuous qualities, can understand realised souls, and they only will be benefited in their company.

So long as there is a world, there are Gurus and Vedas to guide the struggling souls in the path of Self-realisation. The number of realised souls may be less in the Iron Age when compared with the Satya Yuga (age of Truth), but they are always present to help the aspirants. Let each man take the path according to his capacity, temperament, and understanding. His Sadguru will meet him along that path.

SIKSHA GURUS AND DIKSHA GURU

Man has a twofold duty here on earth-to preserve his life, and to realise his Self. To preserve his life, he has to learn to work for his daily bread. To realise his Self, he has to serve, love, and meditate. The Guru who teaches him the knowledge of worldly arts is the Siksha Guru. The Guru who shows him the path of Realisation is the Diksha Guru. Siksha Gurus can be many-as many as the things he wishes to learn. The Diksha Guru can be only one-the one who leads him to Moksha.

STICK TO ONE GURU

Do not dig here and there shallow pits for getting water. The pits will dry up soon. Dig a very deep pit in one place. Centralise all your efforts here. You will get good water that can supply you throughout the year. Even so, try to imbibe thoroughly the spiritual teachings from one preceptor alone. Drink deep from one man. Sit at his feet for some years. There is no use of wandering from one man to another man, out of curiosity, losing faith in a short time. Do not have the ever-changing mind of a prostitute. Follow the spiritual instructions of one man only. If you go to several people and follow the instructions of many persons, you will be bewildered. You will be in a dilemma.

From a doctor, you get a prescription. From two doctors, you get consultation. From three doctors, you get your own cremation. Even so, if you have many Gurus, you will be bewildered. You will be at a loss to know what to do. One Guru will tell you: "Do Soham Japa". Another will tell you: "Do Japa of Sri Ram”. A third Guru will tell you: "Hear Anahat (mystic) sounds". You will be puzzled. Stick to one Guru and follow his instructions.

Listen to all, but follow one. Respect all, but adore one. Gather knowledge from all, but adopt the teachings of one Master. Then you will have rapid spiritual progress.

GURU-PARAMPARA

Spiritual knowledge is a matter of Guru-parampara. It is handed down from Guru to disciple. Gaudapadacharya imparted Self-knowledge to his disciple Govindacharya; Govindacharya to his disciple Sankaracharya; Sankaracharya to his disciple Suresvaracharya. Matsyendranath imparted knowledge to his disciple Gorakhnath; Gorakhnath to Nivrittinath; Nivrittinath to Jnanadeva. Totapuri imparted knowledge to Sri Ramakrishna, and Ramakrishna to Swami Vivekananda. It was Ashtavakra who moulded the life of Raja Janaka. It was Gorakhnath who shaped the spiritual destiny of Raja Bhartrihari. It was Lord Krishna who made Arjuna and Uddhava get themselves established in the spiritual path when their minds were in an unsettled state.

INITIATION-ITS MEANING

A Bhakta will be initiated by a Bhakta saint in the path of devotion. A Jnani will initiate a student of Vedanta in the Mahavakyas. A Hatha Yogi or a Raja Yogi can initiate another in his particular path. But, a sage of perfect realisation, a Purna-jnani (full-blown sage) or Purna-yogi, can give initiation in any particular path. A sage or saint like Sri Sankara or Madhusudana Sarasvati can initiate a Sadhak in any particular path for which the aspirant is fit. The Guru will find out by close study of the aspirant his tastes, temperaments, and capacity, and decide for him the most suitable path. If his heart is impure, the teacher will prescribe selfless service for a number of years. Then the Guru will find out for what particular path the student is fit and initiate him in that.

Initiation does not mean reciting a Mantra into another's ears. If Rama is influenced by the thoughts of Krishna, the former has got initiation already from the latter. If an aspirant treads the path of truth after studying the books written by a saint, and imbibes his teachings, that saint has already become his Guru.

SAKTI-SANCHAR

Just as you can give an orange to a man, so also, spiritual power can be transmitted by one to another. This method of transmitting spiritual powers is termed Sakti-sanchar. In Sakti-sanchar, a certain spiritual vibration of the Sadguru is actually transferred to the mind of the disciple.

Spiritual power is transmitted by the Guru to the proper disciple whom he considers fit for Sakti-sanchar. The Guru can transform the disciple by a look, a touch, a thought or a word, or mere willing.

Sakti-sanchar comes through Parampara. It is a hidden mystic science. It is handed down from Guru to disciple.

Lord Jesus, through touch, transmitted his spiritual power to some of his disciples. A disciple of Samartha Ramdas transmitted his power to that dancing girl's daughter who was very passionate towards him. The disciple gazed at her and gave her Samadhi. Her passion vanished. She became very religious and spiritual. Lord Krishna touched the blind eyes of Surdas. The inner eye of Surdas was opened. He had Bhava Samadhi. Lord Gouranga, through his touch, produced divine intoxication in many people and converted them to his side. Atheists even danced in ecstasy in the streets by his touch and sang songs of Hari.

The disciple should not rest satisfied with the transmission of power from the Guru. He will have to struggle hard in Sadhana for further perfection and attainments. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa touched Swami Vivekananda. Swami Vivekananda had superconscious experience. He struggled hard for seven years more, even after the touch, for attaining perfection.

GRACE AND SELF-EFFORT

Realisation cannot come to you as a miracle done by your Guru. Lord Buddha, Lord Jesus, Rama Tirtha have all done Sadhana. Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to develop Vairagya (dispassion) and Abhyasa (practice). He did not say to him, "I will give you Mukti(liberation) now". Therefore, abandon the wrong notion that your Guru will give you Samadhi and Mukti. Strive, purify, meditate, and realise.

Guru-kripa-grace of a Guru-is very necessary. That does not mean that the disciple should sit idle. He must do rigid Purushartha, spiritual practices. The whole work must be done by the student. Nowadays, people want a drop of water from the Kamandalu (water-pot) of a Sannyasin and desire to enter into Samadhi immediately. They are not prepared to undergo any Sadhana for purification and Self-realisation. They want a magic pill to push them into Samadhi. If you have got such delusion, give it up immediately.

The Guru and the Shastras can show you the path and remove your doubts. Anubhava (direct experience) of the Aparoksha kind or direct intuitive knowledge is left for your own experience. A hungry man will have to eat for himself. He who has a severe itching will have to scratch for himself.

No doubt, the Guru's blessing can do everything. But how can one have his blessings? By pleasing the Guru. A Guru can be pleased with his disciple only if the latter carries out his spiritual instructions implicitly. Carefully follow, therefore the instructions of the Guru. Act up to his instructions. Then only will you deserve his blessings, and then alone his blessings can do everything....

http://www.dlshq.org/books/es19.htm

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 30, 2010, 10:36:38 PM
(http://blog.lib.umn.edu/bgleason/pt/dogs-playing-poker.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Melodist on October 30, 2010, 10:36:58 PM
The concept of human incarnation is introduced and explained well by Krishna in the Gita and Jesus in the Bible. Krishna says that God enters the human being and Jesus says that God is in flesh. This clearly means that God is neither the human being nor the flesh at any time.

The Bible says that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us". It doesn't say that the Word looked like flesh but wasn't actually flesh. It doesn't say that the Word was joined to another already existing person and coexisted with them in the same body. God actually became a man.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 30, 2010, 10:39:58 PM
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:f0RBYbmXDIeKNM:http://bostonist.com/attachments/boston_caroline/092207_dogs_playing_poker.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: ialmisry on October 30, 2010, 10:42:52 PM
God takes the human body to unify all  religions

 To unify all the religions in the world and to give exceptional spiritual guidance to the entire humanity, God alone, who is capable of possessing such exceptional spiritual knowledge called Prajnanam, takes the human body.

The main aim of God entering into the world is to give excellent guidance to the spiritual aspirants. No soul can give such exceptional guidance equal to God. Such guidance is based on the exceptional unique knowledge of omniscient God. Since He is the author of the spiritual scriptures, He alone can give the correct interpretation and the essence of all the scriptures.

Since the same God came in different forms to different parts of the world
No, He did not.

He came in the form of a man in Palestine of the First Century. There is no need to corrolate anything. Just accept the Scripture and Church He founded.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 30, 2010, 11:05:01 PM
(http://www.websmileys.com/sm/aliens/alien_greetings.gif)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 30, 2010, 11:06:21 PM
(http://www.websmileys.com/sm/aliens/alien_greetings.gif)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 11:30:30 PM
Fighting fire with fire, eh?  ;)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:30:38 PM
(http://blog.lib.umn.edu/bgleason/pt/dogs-playing-poker.jpg)

???
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 30, 2010, 11:31:24 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:33:06 PM
INTRODUCTION

The Guru is God Himself manifesting in ..............nstructions of the Guru. Act up to his instructions. Then only will you deserve his blessings, and then alone his blessings can do everything.
http://www.dlshq.org/books/es19.htm


Differentiate Satguru & Guru

In the word Satguru (Lord in human form), the prefix ‘Sat’ means truth. A Satguru always preaches the truth. Truth is always harsh and is not liked by several people. Therefore a Satguru will have only very few disciples. A Satguru says that the path with thorns will lead to the Lord. People will not like this. He also says that the path with flowers leads to hell. People will not be happy with this preaching. A Guru preaches which several people like. The Guru says that the nature of the goal will be the nature of the path. Since the Lord is full of bliss the path also must be with flowers giving happiness. Since the hell is giving you lot of pain the path with thorns which also gives lot of pain must lead to the hell. This argument is very attractive.

Several people will like this and will become the followers of Guru. Several people will praise him and give lot of Guru Dakshina because his argument is pleasant. But a Satguru says that the path with thorns alone will lead to the Lord because in this path you have to cut the bonds with your family and with your hard-earned money. Sacrifice gives lot of pain and sacrifice alone will lead to the Lord. The path with flowers strengthens your bonds with your family and money which gives you lot of happiness. Such path leads to the hell.

Several people do not like such argument and so only one or two persons who can realize the truth will become His disciples. A Satguru will never worry about the number of the disciples and about the quantity of Guru Dakshina. Even if a single disciple is available He is happy. Majority always goes to hell. Only one in millions like Sankara, Vivekananda, Meera can reach the Lord. Diamonds are always in minority. Gravel stones are in majority. Therefore a Satguru will be only one in thousands of Gurus and a true disciple will be only one in millions of disciples.

When you are doing prayers you are praising the Lord as a poet praises a king. The foolish king may give some gift to the poet. But the omniscient Lord can never be fooled by such praise. When you sing songs are chant the name of the Lord or express the feelings of devotion by shedding tears or by meditation you are getting the happiness and peace immediately. You have achieved the fruit. The Lord will not give another fruit for these things. When you are pained and loose peace by cutting the family bonds and by sacrificing your work and wealth to the Lord, then only the Lord will give the real gift to you. When you are working in the field for the owner, doing the work pains you. The owner will pay money for your work. Without doing the work, if you are simply chanting the name of the owner or sing songs on the owner, a wise owner will never give any gift.

You have already derived the bliss and peace by eating the sweet in your hand. Why should I pay you when you are eating the sweet? When you sacrifice the sweet to me I shall pay you. A Satguru teaches only the sacrifice which is the path with thorns leading to the Lord. Veda says that sacrifice alone can bring the grace of the Lord (Dhanene Tyagenaike). If you ask the payment by prayers and devotion the Lord will pay you from your pocket only. He will bring the results of good deeds from your future life cycles and present them to you. But when you are sacrificing the sweet to the Lord in spite of your hunger and your heart pain, the Lord rewards you from His pocket. Therefore the true path leading to the Lord can be identified by loss of peace, mental worry, pain etc., The path to the hell is identified by peace, happiness, benefit etc., Satguru leads you to the Lord and Guru leads you to the hell.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:34:35 PM

God became a man (one man Jesus Christ) in order to take our nature upon himself and heal the corruption of our fallen broken human nature. The corruption of our nature is not a cultural thing, but universal to our entire race. In becoming a man, He united Himself to our nature, not a culture. Christ brought salvation to everyone, not just those who shared in His cultural context in the same time and place as Him.

Jesus chirst is not with us for guiding us through His spiritual knowledge at the same time, Jesus is here in the present human form of GOd. Your attachment to world is less and if you really long for God then you will recognise Him here itself in this world. Recognising and participating in His mission is the aim of life...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:36:07 PM




He came in the form of a man in Palestine of the First Century. There is no need to corrolate anything. Just accept the Scripture and Church He founded.

It is OK, but not complete. If you want perfection then you have to look for Jesus in this generation and learn the divine knowledge from Him. If your value of God is high enough then alone you will search for God in human form. If you are bounded by world and worldly things, such notion will even not come to you!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:37:14 PM
INTRODUCTION
..........one his blessings can do everything....

http://www.dlshq.org/books/es19.htm



I have given reply to this in the other post....please refer it.....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:38:39 PM
If you truly are divine, why try to prove it by trying to appear wise?

God is not found of fame. The love to God should come from side of the devotee. If it is forced and encouraged, then it is not a true love. God comes down in human form to satisfy the wishes of His devotees who love Him. The love has come from the devotees’ side. God responded by coming down in human form and is giving the opportunity to serve Him. Suppose, if one says that God creates devotion also and then there will not be truthfulness in that devotion. Such devotion will fail because it is maintained by external force.

You can see such false love in the case of politicians who employ people to applaude him for whatever he says. It is encouraged and forced devotion and hence, it is false love. In Nivrutti, one has to love God and that is his responsibility only. God will not put His finger in the effort of the devotee’s devotion. If He puts His finger, then it becomes artificial and not real love. In fact, He opposes the love to Him and even then, if the devotee retains the devotion then only it is appreciable. If somebody encourages love, it means that the love will fail in the absence of encouragement and it is not a true love.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:39:58 PM
Why would the Almighty God care about being criticized anywhere, "upper" or lower world? Criticism doesn't negate divinity.
 
In fact God enjoys criticism.  The essence of the entire message of God, is to develop the highest state in which you can be in the state of continuous enjoyment and happiness through entertainment. If you can enjoy the problems also, such continuous state of happiness is possible. The human being has always the worst tendency to pick-up negative things only in the life and go on brooding over those things. Either you should avoid thinking about those negative things (dhyayato vishayaan …) or you should be able to enjoy those negative things also like the dish of chillies in meals.

Avoiding the thinking of negative things in the life is impossible since they touch and penetrate the mind in the practical life. Therefore, the only alternative way is to enjoy those things also and be happy in every minute of life. Such state is called as Brahmi sthiti (Eshaa brahmi sthitih …), which means that you should continuously enjoy your life containing both positive and negative things like God enjoying His creation containing both good and bad.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:41:20 PM
INTRODUCTION

The Guru is God Himself manifesting in a personal form to guide the aspirant. Grace of God takes the form of the Guru. To see the Guru is to see God. The Guru is united with God. He inspires devotion in others. His presence purifies all. .........ru. Act up to his instructions. Then only will you deserve his blessings, and then alone his blessings can do everything.



Not all are true gurus. The Satguru is the God in human form and He is different from other gurus. The divine knowledge of Satguru contains truth which no body else can preach....True divine knowledge is the identification mark of Satguru....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:44:51 PM

Why God has to come in human form?


   If the spiritual knowledge is perfect and complete, the devotion and practice are the spontaneous subsequent steps for which there is no need of any effort. If the practice is perfect and complete,  the fruit is spontaneous. Therefore, all the efforts should be put only to gain the perfect and complete spiritual knowledge. Hence, Shankara told that knowledge alone can achieve fruit (Jnanadevatu…). The perfect and complete spiritual knowledge is possible only from God. But God is unimaginable and therefore to give this perfect and complete knowledge, the unimaginable God comes down in human form.

 For this purpose, which is most important, God will never enter inert medium. The human form means the soul or awareness associated with the human body. Whenever God enters this world the soul is always an associated medium with Him. You should not say that the soul or awareness alone is the associated medium. If you say like that, the soul exists in birds and animals also and these birds and animals cannot give the spiritual knowledge to humanity. Therefore, the soul should mean the soul existing in human body only.

swami, why don't you refrain from posting if your just going to answer your own questions? This is a discussion forum; not personal blog to collect your thoughts-- however divine you think them to be.  ::)

The concept of TRINITY is there in christianity.

There are two persons, one is Son of God and God.

Son of God is a devoted servant of God who is alive in this world when GOD WANT to come to this world in human form. God select this devoted servant of GOd and enters in Him and present in Him all the time from birth to death. He is known as Human incarnation.

The power of God is generally denoted by Holyspirit.

When you see Son of GOd you have seen the heavenly Father only...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:45:28 PM
The Guru is God Himself manifesting in a pe......... his blessings can do everything.
http://www.dlshq.org/books/es19.htm


God in human form or Satguru is identified from His exceptional divine knowledge alone....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:50:11 PM
The concept of human incarnation is introduced and explained well by Krishna in the Gita and Jesus in the Bible. Krishna says that God enters the human being and Jesus says that God is in flesh. This clearly means that God is neither the human being nor the flesh at any time.

The Bible says that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us". It doesn't say that the Word looked like flesh but wasn't actually flesh. It doesn't say that the Word was joined to another already existing person and coexisted with them in the same body. God actually became a man.

Let understand the meaning of word becomig flesh. God is divine knowledge, such God comes in human form. When GOd exists in a very high devoted soul of Him it is called Human incarnation. Divine knoweldge (word) is the property of God. Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….). This does not mean that God is the knowledge itself. It only means that the possessor of right and excellent knowledge is God and such knowledge is His correct identification mark since it is His inseparable characteristic. If some body wears a red shirt always, the red shirt becomes his identity mark and you can call him as the red shirt like calling “Oh! Red shirt! Come here”. Gita gives clarification on this point, which says that the possessor of knowledge is God (Jnaanitvaatmaiava……).  Since God enters the human being only, such identification is mentioned. The human being is always characterized by the knowledge. Knowledge is one sided characteristic of awareness. It means knowledge is always associated with awareness and awareness need not be associated always with knowledge.

An animal or bird has awareness but no knowledge. Therefore, you should not take awareness as the meaning of the words indicating knowledge in Veda like Jnanam and Prajnanam. This clarification is given in Gita, which says that God enters human body (Manusheem….). Hence, Gita always gives clarifications on Veda. Such correct clarification can be correctly clarified by the human incarnation only since the same God, who said Gita, can alone give the original sense of the text. The Author himself can alone give the correct sense of his own statement. Since, God is one and the same in all the human incarnations, any human incarnation can clarify the text said by any other human incarnation.


Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 30, 2010, 11:52:38 PM

"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect." ~Mark 13:22
[/quote]

What you said is correct in this world many will calim as God. But are they God? One has to analyse the divine knoweldge then decide. One has to take long time in analysing the knoweldge and asking question and get the clarification from God in Human form. By this one will not he is really God or not...Only GOD can completely and perfectly answer your spiritual doubts...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Jetavan on October 31, 2010, 12:04:13 AM
INTRODUCTION
The Guru is God Himself manifesting in a personal form to guide the aspirant.
....
Carefully follow, therefore the instructions of the Guru. Act up to his instructions. Then only will you deserve his blessings, and then alone his blessings can do everything.
Hey, that's Swami Sivananda of Rishikesh's essay on the Guru.  :o
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on October 31, 2010, 12:50:50 AM
"I have come to set fire on the earth, and how I wish that it were already kindled!"  [St. Luke 12:49]

"He sendeth His word and melteth them." [Psalm 147:18]


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on October 31, 2010, 12:52:47 AM
The Guru is God Himself manifesting in a pe......... his blessings can do everything.
http://www.dlshq.org/books/es19.htm


God in human form or Satguru is identified from His exceptional divine knowledge alone....

Besime Ab, WeWolde, WeMenfes Qidus, Ahadu amlak, Amen

Who are you?

Besime Ab, WeWolde, WeMenfes Qidus, Ahadu amlak, Amen



Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 31, 2010, 01:07:25 AM
Wait ... I'm confused ... there's two of you now??

Will the real Swami please stand up? :-)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 31, 2010, 01:10:33 AM
Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam ...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 31, 2010, 01:12:19 AM
You know what they say, a Para Brahmans is better than one. ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 31, 2010, 01:18:53 AM
You should change your username to "dattaspammi".
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 31, 2010, 01:19:54 AM
You should change your username to "dattaspammi".


 ;D  :laugh:

We have a winner!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 31, 2010, 01:20:01 AM
dattaspammi and Tallitot, do you two know each other?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on October 31, 2010, 01:22:40 AM
His e-mail says he's Anil Antony. I don't know if his guru is using his e-mail, or the other way around.   ???
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on October 31, 2010, 01:26:59 AM
Go to an Orthodox Christian Church, find a Priest, confess your sins and be baptized. Your words are not the Words of God, they are the words of a demon/demons. But although you are under demonic influence (perhaps possession), you still retain the image of God. And since God has created you with free will, you can choose to forsake evil and turn to Christ. But your will has probably been greatly weakened, so it will take great strength and resolution on your part. Begin by making the sign of the Cross (are you able to do that?), pray the Jesus Prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner," and read the Holy Bible alone (not the other false "scriptures.") Do these three things until you are able to contact a Priest. In fact, there are many wonderful Priests who are members of this forum. You may wish to PM one or more of them for help. By the grace of God and the power of your divinely granted free will, you can be freed from these demons.

Besime Ab, WeWolde, WeMenfesQidus, Ahadu Amlak, -amen-


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 31, 2010, 01:35:49 AM

"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect." ~Mark 13:22


What you said is correct in this world many will calim as God. But are they God? One has to analyse the divine knoweldge then decide. One has to take long time in analysing the knoweldge and asking question and get the clarification from God in Human form. By this one will not he is really God or not...Only GOD can completely and perfectly answer your spiritual doubts...
I have no spiritual doubts.  I know in Whom I believe, and you ain't Him. 
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on October 31, 2010, 01:39:53 AM
(http://homepage.mac.com/sbooneaz/iblog/C596052566/E20050716131712/Media/give_a_damn_progress5795.gif)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on October 31, 2010, 01:43:45 AM

"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect." ~Mark 13:22


What you said is correct in this world many will calim as God. But are they God? One has to analyse the divine knoweldge then decide. One has to take long time in analysing the knoweldge and asking question and get the clarification from God in Human form. By this one will not he is really God or not...Only GOD can completely and perfectly answer your spiritual doubts...
I have no spiritual doubts.  I know in Whom I believe, and you ain't Him. 


AMEN


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Irish Hermit on October 31, 2010, 01:47:29 AM
[
Jesus chirst is not with us for guiding us through His spiritual knowledge at the same time, Jesus is here in the present human form of GOd. Your attachment to world is less and if you really long for God then you will recognise Him here itself in this world. Recognising and participating in His mission is the aim of life...


Swami,

Maybe we should speak with you plainly and honestly and stop being so polite with you.

Your messages here come from the demons.  You tell us to search out the 21st century incarnation of Christ.  But we know there was only ONE incarnation of Christ and that was 2000 years ago.  Anybody who preaches otherwise is doing the work of the Evil One.

Christ Himself is very clear about this.  He proclaims:  

"At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'
or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and
false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles
to deceive the elect—if that were possible. So be on your guard..."
(Mark's Gospel, chapter 13.)

I am sure that you are sincere but you have been deceived by him who is malevolent towards the human race and uses you and others to try to take us away from Christ and away from His love and salvation.  Try and free yourself from the demon's coils and rid yourself of the delusions which control you.

I ask all the Forum members to pray for Swami's deliverance.

Fr Ambrose
Russian Orthodox Church

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on October 31, 2010, 02:00:57 AM
[
Jesus chirst is not with us for guiding us through His spiritual knowledge at the same time, Jesus is here in the present human form of GOd. Your attachment to world is less and if you really long for God then you will recognise Him here itself in this world. Recognising and participating in His mission is the aim of life...


Swami,

Maybe we should speak with you plainly and honestly and stop being so polite with you.

Your messages here come from the demons.  You tell us to search out the 21st century incarnation of Christ.  But we know there was only ONE incarnation of Christ and that was 2000 years ago.  Anybody who preaches otherwise is doing the work of the Evil One.

Christ Himself is very clear about this.  He proclaims:  

"At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'
or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and
false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles
to deceive the elect—if that were possible. So be on your guard..."
(Mark's Gospel, chapter 13.)

I am sure that you are sincere but you have been deceived by him who is malevolent towards the human race and uses you and others to try to take us away from Christ and away from His love and salvation.  Try and free yourself from the demon's coils and rid yourself of the delusions which control you.

I ask all the Forum members to pray for Swami's deliverance.

Fr Ambrose
Russian Orthodox Church



Amen!

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7778/image1the20cross20image.jpg) (http://img401.imageshack.us/i/image1the20cross20image.jpg/)

Besime Ab, WeWolde, WeMenfesQidus, Ahadu Amlak, -Amen-

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy on Me a Sinner."
"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy on Me a Sinner."
"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy on Me a Sinner."
-Amen-

"The Cross is our Power, the Cross is our strength, the Cross is our redemption, the Cross is the salvation of our souls"
  -Amen-
"The Cross is our Power, the Cross is our strength, the Cross is our redemption, the Cross is the salvation of our souls" 
 -Amen-
"The Cross is our Power, the Cross is our strength, the Cross is our redemption, the Cross is the salvation of our souls"   
-Amen-

"Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever and ever. -Amen-

"O our Lady, the Virgin St. Maryam, in St. Gabriel's greetings: 'Peace be unto you.' Holy and pure, O mother of the Almighty God: 'Peace be unto you.' Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Hail Mary, full of grace: pray for us before Our Lord Jesus Christ that He may forgive us for our sins."
 -Amen-

"Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal,
Who was born of the Virgin Maryam:
Have Mercy on Us."
"Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal,
Who was baptized in the river Jordan and crucified on the Cross:
 Have Mercy on Us."
"Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal,
Who is risen from the dead:
Have Mercy on Us."
-Amen-

"Lord Have Mercy."
"Lord Have Mercy."
"Lord Have Mercy."
"Kyrie Eleison"
"Kyrie Eleison"
"Kyrie Eleison"
"Lord Have Mercy."
"Lord Have Mercy."
"Lord Have Mercy."
"Kyrie Eleison"
"Kyrie Eleison"
"Kyrie Eleison"
-Amen-

"O St. Gebre Menfes Qidus: Save me Lord from the hidden snares of satan. Save me from the oppressor and from oppression. And drive away my enemies the hosts of the fallen devil."
-Amen-

"Lord Have Mercy on Us."

"In the name of Mary, Lord have mercy on us."

"Kyrie Eleison."

"Sador, Alador, Danat, Adera, Rodas."

"O! God"

"O! Christ"

"Save us from wrath and deliver us by your mercy in the name of Mary your mother."

"Hear us! Our God and Savior."

"Elohe!"

"Ye! Ye! Ye! My God se me!"

"O God! According to your mercy and not according to our sins."

""Lord, remember us in thy Kingdom."

"Hail Mary, we bow unto thee. Our mother Mary we pray unto thee. We beseech thee to protect us from the evil beast. O Virgin, in the name of Anna you mother and Joachim your Father, bless our congregation today."  -Amen-

Besime Ab, WeWolde, WeMenfesQidus, Ahadu Amlak, -Amen-


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 31, 2010, 02:05:21 AM
Amin, amin!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 31, 2010, 04:45:30 AM
(http://homepage.mac.com/sbooneaz/iblog/C596052566/E20050716131712/Media/give_a_damn_progress5795.gif)

 :D ;D :D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 31, 2010, 04:45:53 AM
You know what they say, a Para Brahmans is better than one. ;D

 ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on October 31, 2010, 08:53:34 AM
Fighting fire with fire, eh?  ;)

who, me? ::)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on October 31, 2010, 01:23:37 PM
Go to an Orthodox Christian Church, find a Priest, confess your sins and be baptized. Your words are not the Words of God, they are the words of a demon/demons. But although you are under demonic influence (perhaps possession), you still retain the image of God. And since God has created you with free will, you can choose to forsake evil and turn to Christ. But your will has probably been greatly weakened, so it will take great strength and resolution on your part. Begin by making the sign of the Cross (are you able to do that?), pray the Jesus Prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner," and read the Holy Bible alone (not the other false "scriptures.") Do these three things until you are able to contact a Priest. In fact, there are many wonderful Priests who are members of this forum. You may wish to PM one or more of them for help. By the grace of God and the power of your divinely granted free will, you can be freed from these demons.

Besime Ab, WeWolde, WeMenfesQidus, Ahadu Amlak, -amen-


Selam
Ok i will try to implement it...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: PeterTheAleut on October 31, 2010, 01:41:36 PM
Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam ...
"I DON'T LIKE SPAM!!!": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE) ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: stashko on October 31, 2010, 01:55:11 PM
People In England love, and Have A annual Spam Fest....And they thank America For it..... ;D





Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam ...
"I DON'T LIKE SPAM!!!": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE) ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 31, 2010, 02:27:13 PM
dattaswami,

Did you know that my respect for your opinions decreases every time you start a new thread? Something to think about...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 31, 2010, 03:43:14 PM
stashko, maybe somwday we can share in the Spam Feast of Haven! :)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Rufus on October 31, 2010, 03:44:37 PM
Amin!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Jetavan on October 31, 2010, 03:51:53 PM
Is Spam a fasting food? It's not meat.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 31, 2010, 03:54:12 PM
Actually, it is - "spiced ham". :)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 31, 2010, 03:54:19 PM
On average, 3.8 cans of spam are consumed every second in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(food)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on October 31, 2010, 03:54:59 PM
Actually, it is - "spiced ham". :)

'The labeled ingredients in the classic variety of Spam are chopped pork shoulder meat with ham meat added, salt, water, modified potato starch as a binder, and sodium nitrite as a preservative.'
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on October 31, 2010, 03:55:48 PM
I have known people from Hawaii who say it's VERY popular there - a staple of their recipes!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: chrevbel on October 31, 2010, 04:14:16 PM
Quote from: dattaswami
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
Are you saying we cannot get beyond or past a Brahman cow?
Parabrahman means absolute God.
Oh, wit is wasted on the wrong people.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Brigidsboy on October 31, 2010, 04:31:55 PM
This forum is for the discussion of Orthodox Christianity, not a forum for the dissemination of Hinduism. I think it would be best if you would stop posting these things here.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 31, 2010, 05:10:51 PM
Amin, amin!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on October 31, 2010, 05:34:39 PM
People In England love, and Have A annual Spam Fest....And they thank America For it..... ;D

On average, 3.8 cans of spam are consumed every second in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(food)

I have known people from Hawaii who say it's VERY popular there - a staple of their recipes!

Disturbing.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Jetavan on October 31, 2010, 07:03:32 PM
INTRODUCTION

The Guru is God Himself manifesting in a personal form to guide the aspirant....
Swami Sivananda, who wrote this essay, worked with Mother Gavrilia, the "ascetic of love", a Greek Orthodox who spent some time in at Sivananda's (http://www.oodegr.com/english/empeiries/obedience_of_love.htm) ashram in India:


"RtE: Did she ever try to talk to the Hindus themselves about the difference between their many gods and Christ? Obviously, she wouldn’t have done it in an overly-zealous evangelical way.

Sister Gavrilia: She waited, like a true disciple of Christ Who said, “To the one who asks, give.” You don’t give if you aren’t asked, because if I ask you for something this means I need it and I am ready to accept it and understand it. If you go around preaching without my asking you, I’ll say, “Let her talk, I don’t care.” I won’t pay any attention to what you say. So, she was waiting for questions to come from the Hindus. She never just handed out Gospels, she waited to be asked. And she also gave the “Imitation of Christ” by Thomas Kempis because she said there were many references there to the Gospel. At one point when she was working in the dispensary of the ashram of Sivananda, his disciple, Chichananda, became angry in a public lecture and lost his calm. He was very sorry for this, and later said to her, “Did you hear what happened to me? Is there any book you can give me?” He was looking at her as a person who had a kind of asceticism and spirituality. He did not know this kind of Christianity. He knew the other – the active, the social, the missionary schools of other denominations. So she gave him the Philokalia. He was quite impressed, and the next thing he did was to visit Mount Athos. A Hindu monk, can you imagine?"


The "Chichananda" mentioned is actually "Chidananda (http://www.dlshq.org/saints/chida.htm)", who visited Mt. Athos, inspiring at least one other disciple (http://www.sivachidananda.org/NewsLetters/mt-athos-report.htm) of Sivananda (a disciple who calls "Mother Gavrilia", "Sister Gabriela") to visit Mt. Athos in 2003.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: orthonorm on October 31, 2010, 08:01:22 PM
Actually, it is - "spiced ham". :)

'The labeled ingredients in the classic variety of Spam are chopped pork shoulder meat with ham meat added, salt, water, modified potato starch as a binder, and sodium nitrite as a preservative.'

Wrong. The only ingredient: Deliciousness.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Luke on October 31, 2010, 08:05:52 PM
Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam ...
Did you get the from Monty Python?  They have a skit about spam. . .
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on October 31, 2010, 08:21:21 PM
Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam ...
Did you get the from Monty Python?  They have a skit about spam. . .
I think we've all been inspired by dattaspammi.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on October 31, 2010, 09:13:45 PM

Why God has to come in human form?


   If the spiritual knowledge is perfect and complete, the devotion and practice are the spontaneous subsequent steps for which there is no need of any effort. If the practice is perfect and complete,  the fruit is spontaneous. Therefore, all the efforts should be put only to gain the perfect and complete spiritual knowledge. Hence, Shankara told that knowledge alone can achieve fruit (Jnanadevatu…). The perfect and complete spiritual knowledge is possible only from God. But God is unimaginable and therefore to give this perfect and complete knowledge, the unimaginable God comes down in human form.

 For this purpose, which is most important, God will never enter inert medium. The human form means the soul or awareness associated with the human body. Whenever God enters this world the soul is always an associated medium with Him. You should not say that the soul or awareness alone is the associated medium. If you say like that, the soul exists in birds and animals also and these birds and animals cannot give the spiritual knowledge to humanity. Therefore, the soul should mean the soul existing in human body only.

swami, why don't you refrain from posting if your just going to answer your own questions? This is a discussion forum; not personal blog to collect your thoughts-- however divine you think them to be.  ::)

The concept of TRINITY is there in christianity.

There are two persons, one is Son of God and God.

Son of God is a devoted servant of God who is alive in this world when GOD WANT to come to this world in human form. God select this devoted servant of GOd and enters in Him and present in Him all the time from birth to death. He is known as Human incarnation.

The power of God is generally denoted by Holyspirit.

When you see Son of GOd you have seen the heavenly Father only...

It's clear you don't understand the Christian Trinity, because almost nothing you said here is Christian. Your beliefs are not compatible with Christianity, try as you might to put them in a blender together.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 01, 2010, 12:28:36 AM

 
It's clear you don't understand the Christian Trinity, because almost nothing you said here is Christian. Your beliefs are not compatible with Christianity, try as you might to put them in a blender together.

In Christianity, it is believed that 3 persons exists. Father-Son-Holy Spirit and they are one. And it is not possible to understand these concept. They are different at the same time, they are one.

Father and Son of God are different. But they are one. When Son of GOD is alive in this world, Father is in Son of GOd and hence Son of God and Father are one. Holy Spirit can be considered as the power of Father or Father Himself. Holyspirit was with Jesus all the time. It means power of Father and Father Himself was in Him all the time when He was alive in this world.

Like this you can understand the concept of F-S-H.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 01, 2010, 12:28:36 AM

I ask all the Forum members to pray for Swami's deliverance.

Fr Ambrose
Russian Orthodox Church




Dear Rev.Fr Ambrose;

You need not recommend for me! Becuase even if you recommend or not, God will act according to His analysis of me and after examining my case; He will do the justice! In this creation no injustice happen. If I am misleading any one of you in the name of God, dont you think that God will spare me? God will not spare any body and GOd will not neglect giving reward to deserving also. ONe need not recommad God to do this and that! When you recommand that means you are more smarter and intelligent that GOd and hence God has to be remembered of His duties! Also that means that, you are very altert about other people and God is not so altert and GOd is lazy, and want your recommendation for God to act for other cases!!!

Thus please do not recommand for any body to God. God is the Father of all the souls of this creation. He knows better how to handle any situation. He will never spare injutice to happen in this world.

If He does then it is a black scar on His face. You need not refer my case to Him. If i am doing any injutice without your recommamendation, God will punish me. Your recommandation will not change the course of punishment. If I am deserving then i will receive His blessing, for that you need not pray God to bless me also, because even if you pray or not pray,if I am deserving then i will get His blessing.

Thus any way for punishment or for blessing God is the ultimate authority and you cannot recommand to God to change His way of action which is based on justice.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 01, 2010, 07:51:45 AM

Christ Himself is very clear about this.  He proclaims:  

"At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'
or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and
false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles
to deceive the elect—if that were possible. So be on your guard..."
(Mark's Gospel, chapter 13.)

This means that Jesus is going to come , as per His own words. Now 2000 yrs are over, as per you Jesus has not appeared so far! Suppose Jesus come one day before you die to this world. How will you identify Him? You have not seen Jesus alive when He came 2000 yrs ago. All what we have is a work of some artists. Hence how will you know if Jesus comes to you in human form that He is Jesus Himself?

As per you, He is not going to come even if you die. Then when you will see Him? IN the heave..? But what is the guarentee you will meet Him there.. What is the guarentee that you will go to heaven?


The identification mark of Jesus is true divine knowledge, by knowledge alone you will indenfity Him...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Melodist on November 01, 2010, 09:28:36 PM

Christ Himself is very clear about this.  He proclaims:  

"At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'
or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and
false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles
to deceive the elect—if that were possible. So be on your guard..."
(Mark's Gospel, chapter 13.)

This means that Jesus is going to come , as per His own words. Now 2000 yrs are over, as per you Jesus has not appeared so far! Suppose Jesus come one day before you die to this world. How will you identify Him? You have not seen Jesus alive when He came 2000 yrs ago. All what we have is a work of some artists. Hence how will you know if Jesus comes to you in human form that He is Jesus Himself?

As per you, He is not going to come even if you die. Then when you will see Him? IN the heave..? But what is the guarentee you will meet Him there.. What is the guarentee that you will go to heaven?


The identification mark of Jesus is true divine knowledge, by knowledge alone you will indenfity Him...

At the ascension, the angels said He would return in the same manner in which He went up. So far no one has done that. When Christ does return, there will be no room for error on whether or not it is really Him.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on November 02, 2010, 10:47:41 AM

Christ Himself is very clear about this.  He proclaims:  

"At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'
or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and
false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles
to deceive the elect—if that were possible. So be on your guard..."
(Mark's Gospel, chapter 13.)

This means that Jesus is going to come , as per His own words. Now 2000 yrs are over, as per you Jesus has not appeared so far! Suppose Jesus come one day before you die to this world. How will you identify Him? You have not seen Jesus alive when He came 2000 yrs ago. All what we have is a work of some artists. Hence how will you know if Jesus comes to you in human form that He is Jesus Himself?

Because, unlike when he first appeared, he will come again in glory and majesty, with his angels, and there will be no mistaking him. He will not be some obscure self-styled guru spamming internet discussion boards with his incoherent philosophical ramblings. 
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 02, 2010, 11:04:34 AM

I ask all the Forum members to pray for Swami's deliverance.

Fr Ambrose
Russian Orthodox Church



Dear Rev.Fr Ambrose;

You need not recommend for me!


I have, dear Swami and I will do so again.  I recommend that the Christians on this forum pray for you and for your enlightenment and salvation.

Quote

Thus please do not recommand for any body to God.

Your ways are not our ways and we prefer our ways to yours.  We pray for one another, always have done and always will.   What you teach on this matter is alien to us.

Quote

and you cannot recommand to God to change His way of action which is based on justice.

How wrong you are and how far from true understanding of God.  His ways are the ways of compassion and love and his compassion outweighs His justice a million fold.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on November 02, 2010, 11:49:41 AM

I ask all the Forum members to pray for Swami's deliverance.

Fr Ambrose
Russian Orthodox Church



Dear Rev.Fr Ambrose;

You need not recommend for me!


I have, dear Swami and I will do so again.  I recommend that the Christians on this forum pray for you and for your enlightenment and salvation.

Quote

Thus please do not recommand for any body to God.

Your ways are not our ways and we prefer our ways to yours.  We pray for one another, always have done and always will.   What you teach on this matter is alien to us.

Quote

and you cannot recommand to God to change His way of action which is based on justice.

How wrong you are and how far from true understanding of God.  His ways are the ways of compassion and love and his compassion outweighs His justice a million fold.

Amen! I for one recommend and ask that all my brothers and sisters pray for me.


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on November 02, 2010, 12:27:52 PM
^You're very confused, aren't you?  It's tough impersonating the Holy Trinity.



Why God has to come in human form?

   If the spiritual knowledge is perfect and complete, the devotion and practice are the spontaneous subsequent steps for which there is no need of any effort. If the practice is perfect and complete,  the fruit is spontaneous. Therefore, all the efforts should be put only to gain the perfect and complete spiritual knowledge. Hence, Shankara told that knowledge alone can achieve fruit (Jnanadevatu…). The perfect and complete spiritual knowledge is possible only from God. But God is unimaginable and therefore to give this perfect and complete knowledge, the unimaginable God comes down in human form.

 For this purpose, which is most important, God will never enter inert medium. The human form means the soul or awareness associated with the human body. Whenever God enters this world the soul is always an associated medium with Him. You should not say that the soul or awareness alone is the associated medium. If you say like that, the soul exists in birds and animals also and these birds and animals cannot give the spiritual knowledge to humanity. Therefore, the soul should mean the soul existing in human body only.

(http://ri.rediffiland.com/homepimages/home6/642/1e0c7b39c43a60be34b7e8ea4410dff9/homep/images/1224153550)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 02, 2010, 12:38:20 PM

I ask all the Forum members to pray for Swami's deliverance.

Fr Ambrose
Russian Orthodox Church



Dear Rev.Fr Ambrose;

You need not recommend for me!


I have, dear Swami and I will do so again.  I recommend that the Christians on this forum pray for you and for your enlightenment and salvation.

Quote

Thus please do not recommand for any body to God.

Your ways are not our ways and we prefer our ways to yours.  We pray for one another, always have done and always will.   What you teach on this matter is alien to us.

Quote

and you cannot recommand to God to change His way of action which is based on justice.

How wrong you are and how far from true understanding of God.  His ways are the ways of compassion and love and his compassion outweighs His justice a million fold.

There is nothing wrong in praying to God, by which you will get peace. But God is not going to get anything. Let us consider two persons. One person go to the palace and aways sits near the king without doing any job and simply praises king the whole day. There another person who go to palace, he salute the king and do practical work like cleaning the palace, making very delicious food for the king, taking him outside etc etc.

To which man king will get pleased? Definetely to the second person. Infact the first person will give headache to the king after some time!

Prayer is God there is nothing wrong in it, but along with this theoretical excercise, one should do practical service to God.

Another example, a dog do not do any work and it has to move its tail, jump, lick etc to get food from master. The dog get food not in a royal manner. Consider an elephant which worked moving trunks the whole day underscrotching sun. In the evening the elephant is fed in a royal manner by the master. The elephant need not beg, cry, jump etc.

Like wise be a royal elephant infront of GOd. Do God's work, sacrifice for God's mission. Do not only do prayer alone, do some practical work for God,  in such case alone grace of GOd will fall on you!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 02, 2010, 12:39:01 PM

I ask all the Forum members to pray for Swami's deliverance.

Fr Ambrose
Russian Orthodox Church


If you are an ordinary person you should follow the rules of your deeds and nature. If you are a devotee, even then, you should not ask God for help. Your devotion must not aspire any result. You are asking God for help means that you want God to violate his own natural rules. The impression of millions of angles and sages is disturbed if God violates his own rules. That will give a poor impression on God. You are putting God to inconvenience by forcing him to use his supernatural power. Whether you are a devotee or not, you must always try to solve your problems by putting your best effort.

If you fail, even then, do not ask God to help you. Then, you think that it is your fate and worship God as usual. Arjuna was fighting with his grandfather, Bhishma. Arjuna was not putting up his best effort to kill Bhishma. He was having sympathy to Bhishma, who has brought up Arjuna. Noting this, Krishna (Jesus) took His Sudarshana chakra and ran to kill Bhishma. That means the Lord tried to solve the problem of Arjuna through His divine power. Arjuna did not agree to this and forced Krishna to stop, because Arjuna knew about his inadequate effort. But when Sindhava was to be killed, Arjuna tried his best, because Arjuna took an oath to kill Sindhava before sunset and otherwise he promised that he would enter the fire.

Since the sunset took place apparently due to the Maya of Krishna, Arjuna stopped fighting and wanted to enter the fire. He was just going to jump into the fire but he never asked for help. He thought that was his fate. Therefore, the Lord helped him secretly. Therefore, if you put your best effort, still fail because it is beyond your limits, if you happen to be a real devotee and do not ask for the help from God, then you will be helped by the super power secretly. The secrecy is due to preservation of the sacredness of his administration in the eyes of others.

Dear Rev.Fr Ambrose;

You need not recommend for me!


I have, dear Swami and I will do so again.  I recommend that the Christians on this forum pray for you and for your enlightenment and salvation.

Quote

Thus please do not recommand for any body to God.

Your ways are not our ways and we prefer our ways to yours.  We pray for one another, always have done and always will.   What you teach on this matter is alien to us.

Quote

and you cannot recommand to God to change His way of action which is based on justice.

How wrong you are and how far from true understanding of God.  His ways are the ways of compassion and love and his compassion outweighs His justice a million fold.

Amen! I for one recommend and ask that all my brothers and sisters pray for me.


Selam
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on November 02, 2010, 12:41:29 PM
[
Jesus chirst is not with us for guiding us through His spiritual knowledge at the same time, Jesus is here in the present human form of GOd. Your attachment to world is less and if you really long for God then you will recognise Him here itself in this world. Recognising and participating in His mission is the aim of life...


Swami,

Maybe we should speak with you plainly and honestly and stop being so polite with you.

Your messages here come from the demons.  You tell us to search out the 21st century incarnation of Christ.  But we know there was only ONE incarnation of Christ and that was 2000 years ago.  Anybody who preaches otherwise is doing the work of the Evil One.

Christ Himself is very clear about this.  He proclaims: 

"At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'
or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and
false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles
to deceive the elect—if that were possible. So be on your guard..."
(Mark's Gospel, chapter 13.)

I am sure that you are sincere but you have been deceived by him who is malevolent towards the human race and uses you and others to try to take us away from Christ and away from His love and salvation.  Try and free yourself from the demon's coils and rid yourself of the delusions which control you.

I ask all the Forum members to pray for Swami's deliverance.

Fr Ambrose
Russian Orthodox Church


(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj169/vroc13091/funnies/applause.gif)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 02, 2010, 12:43:02 PM

At the ascension, the angels said He would return in the same manner in which He went up. So far no one has done that. When Christ does return, there will be no room for error on whether or not it is really Him.

More 2000yrs are over, so far Jesus has not come!

I perfectly agree that Jesus was God in human form there is no doubt in it, because Only God in human form can preach wonderful divine knowledge.

What i say in addition is that the same Jesus comes to this world again and again for preaching divine knowledge.

If Jesus had came only once then it means that only people who were living 2000 yrs back got the chance to directly see Him, touch HIm and co-live with Him and more importantly clarify their doubts directly from Him alive. Thus if Jesus is not coming again and again then He will become partial as per your own logic.

How can Jesus be partial only favouring one generation with HIs direct contact? Hence Jesus comes down in every human generation to preach and uplift the human souls. All human incarnations are Jesus because same God existed in them.

The same Lord came to different parts of the world in different age to preach the same Divine Knowledge. All the scriptures of the world are the records of the knowledge given by the same Lord and hence cannot contradict each other. Yet we find sometimes that there are some glaring contradictions between different scriptures of the world. This is in part due to fact that the Lord taught the same truth in different ages and places in a slightly different way, so as to suit the culture and language of the people. This is only an extraneous difference. The essential knowledge is the same. Correct interpretation will remove the contradiction.

Sometimes there may be an apparent difference even in the essential meaning.

In such as case the inconsistency is probably caused by corruption of the scripture over generations. Comparison with other scriptures of the world will help in removing the corrupted portions in each scripture. Here it becomes essential to bring in experience as a prama?a or a valid means of knowledge. While comparing contradictory views in different scriptures, the view which agrees with experience or anubhuti should be taken as correct.

Jesus has come many times to this world for preaching divine knoweldge. He preached according to the circumstance and more importanly to the level of people who surrounded Him.

When He comes and go, the next time He again comes, He should be able to give proper interpretation of the verses He has spoken when He come this time. Like wise GOd comes in every human generation and previous scriptures are expliained properly by the present human form of GOd since the same GOD only told previous scriptures and the same GOd has come now and HE can tell the correct meaning. Thus it shows that you have to find out God in human form of the present generation to get the correct interpretation of all the scriptures of the world.

This also shows that God has to come in every human generation to preach other wise confusion will come to the followers. Now generally people are depending on other people for getting the interpretation. Those people are not authoratives. They simply tell something and very little truth only contained in them. But if God Himself talk then correct meaning according to the level of the receiver He can speak and His words will be perfectly logical and contain strength which will even perierce your inner conciousness.

You yourself can understand or identify God in human form of your generation.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 02, 2010, 12:43:02 PM

At the ascension, the angels said He would return in the same manner in which He went up. So far no one has done that. When Christ does return, there will be no room for error on whether or not it is really Him.

Why Jesus has to come agian and again now also.....

When Jesus came, that past generation was blessed by Jesus and due to this God becomes partial. The direct experience through direct dialogues is a real fortune. God is impartial and is coming down in human form in every generation. The entire public in the world need not have the chance of meeting the Lord in any generation. Only the ripened souls raised to the high level can have this chance because they really require it. In the university the UG classes and PG classes are running. The highest PhD program is also present. A professor, some readers and many lecturers exist in the teaching faculty. The professor is not required to go to any UG class. For a few hours, he goes to the PG class and spends most of the time with research scholars. There are many UG sections. There is one PG section.


There are half a dozen research students. The professor is available to all the students but is really required only for a few students. All the students are in his contact because the Professor addresses occasionally all the UG sections also. The lecturers are fully required to the UG sections. The Readers are more required for the PG sections and less required by the research scholars.


The Professor is mostly required by the research students. Similarly God in human form is in contact with all the souls in the generation. But He is utilized by a few only due to more requirement to that level. Depending on the requirement of language and area and the communication facilities, there may be more human incarnations of God in one generation like a few Professors require. But if the communication facilities have improved and if a single language like English can be understood by all countries, there is no need of a second Professor.


I feel in the present human generation in view of the developed communication skills and the uniform language, one human incarnation of God is sufficient at the highest level. He is always accompanied by the angels who are at various levels like Readers and lecturers.



He always descends down along with the faculty of the department in every generation because the levels of the students cannot disappear even if the communication skills and universal language exist. Moreover the analytical capacity of the public is improved a lot due to fantastic development of science. The science of today is nothing but the Tarka Shastra of ancient time. Therefore the knowledge that is going to be revealed by the God in the single human form in the present generation is going to be tremendous reflecting all the scriptures and science from all the angles like a Tsunami covering from all sides.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 02, 2010, 12:43:02 PM

I ask all the Forum members to pray for Swami's deliverance.

Fr Ambrose
Russian Orthodox Church



Dear Rev.Fr Ambrose;

You need not recommend for me!


I have, dear Swami and I will do so again.  I recommend that the Christians on this forum pray for you and for your enlightenment and salvation.

Quote


When you ask some thing in present or some thing in the future, it clearly means that you are reminding Him about the corresponding reaction that is to be immediately implemented in the need.  This indirectly means that God is not alert as you are.  This is insulting God.  Due to such sin the requirement is not answered.  If you are asking to protect yourself or somebody else, it indirectly means that He is not aware of the things to be done due to the irresponsibility and this also indicates that He is not as kind as yourself.

 It means that God has potency to help but not kind enough to render the help.  On contrary, it also means that you lack unfortunately the potency.  It means if you fortunately have the potency you could have immediately responded and helped.  Therefore, when ever you ask for anything it clearly means indirectly that God has some type of defect, which does not exist in your case.  When you ask Him to fulfill the desire it looks as if that your desire is constitutionally justified.  But God is not positively reacting due to either lack of positive response immediately or due to lack of knowledge of the constitution or due to lack of kindness to help the needy.  All these points are very very subtle.  But God is the most subtle and therefore, the knowledge of this analysis will certainly restrict you from asking any fulfillment of your desire. 

Never bring present and future before God.  Confine to the past always before God.  Look back at your past life.  Hundreds of incidents are there where you were helped by God.  Even if you dispose some incidents through the incidental probability of success or through the efficiency of your efforts, certainly there are plenty of instances in which the help from God is clearly evident.  At least remember those few incidents and express your gratefulness along praise to God for His kind help that was already done.  The word Krutajnata means remembering the past help.  Kruta means the past help done.  Jna means identifying it by analysis.  If you confine to praying the Lord and thanking Him always about the past helps from Him, the Lord will be immensely pleased.  Then the present and future are spontaneously taken care of by the God.  But do not adopt this technique with a mind that you will be helped by God in the present and in the future by following this procedure! 


Thus please do not recommand for any body to God.

Your ways are not our ways and we prefer our ways to yours.  We pray for one another, always have done and always will.   What you teach on this matter is alien to us.

Quote

and you cannot recommand to God to change His way of action which is based on justice.

How wrong you are and how far from true understanding of God.  His ways are the ways of compassion and love and his compassion outweighs His justice a million fold.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 02, 2010, 02:01:01 PM


(http://ri.rediffiland.com/homepimages/home6/642/1e0c7b39c43a60be34b7e8ea4410dff9/homep/images/1224153550)
[/quote]

Simply displaying some words will not make you GOd at all!

God is associated with divine knowledge. If you are God then you will speak wonderful divine knowledge since the source who is God is present in you.

But you are speaking not even very low level knowledge also, so how i can consider you as God!! No way.

Identity mark of God is wonderful divine knowledge with specific intensity which enters your brain and clarify all your doubts and improve your devotion on God. Without all these sign you are rejected as God....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Rufus on November 02, 2010, 04:34:05 PM
I will pray!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Melodist on November 02, 2010, 08:23:48 PM

At the ascension, the angels said He would return in the same manner in which He went up. So far no one has done that. When Christ does return, there will be no room for error on whether or not it is really Him.

More 2000yrs are over, so far Jesus has not come!

I perfectly agree that Jesus was God in human form there is no doubt in it, because Only God in human form can preach wonderful divine knowledge.

What i say in addition is that the same Jesus comes to this world again and again for preaching divine knowledge.

If Jesus had came only once then it means that only people who were living 2000 yrs back got the chance to directly see Him, touch HIm and co-live with Him and more importantly clarify their doubts directly from Him alive. Thus if Jesus is not coming again and again then He will become partial as per your own logic.

How can Jesus be partial only favouring one generation with HIs direct contact? Hence Jesus comes down in every human generation to preach and uplift the human souls. All human incarnations are Jesus because same God existed in them.

The same Lord came to different parts of the world in different age to preach the same Divine Knowledge. All the scriptures of the world are the records of the knowledge given by the same Lord and hence cannot contradict each other. Yet we find sometimes that there are some glaring contradictions between different scriptures of the world. This is in part due to fact that the Lord taught the same truth in different ages and places in a slightly different way, so as to suit the culture and language of the people. This is only an extraneous difference. The essential knowledge is the same. Correct interpretation will remove the contradiction.

Sometimes there may be an apparent difference even in the essential meaning.

In such as case the inconsistency is probably caused by corruption of the scripture over generations. Comparison with other scriptures of the world will help in removing the corrupted portions in each scripture. Here it becomes essential to bring in experience as a prama?a or a valid means of knowledge. While comparing contradictory views in different scriptures, the view which agrees with experience or anubhuti should be taken as correct.

Jesus has come many times to this world for preaching divine knoweldge. He preached according to the circumstance and more importanly to the level of people who surrounded Him.

When He comes and go, the next time He again comes, He should be able to give proper interpretation of the verses He has spoken when He come this time. Like wise GOd comes in every human generation and previous scriptures are expliained properly by the present human form of GOd since the same GOD only told previous scriptures and the same GOd has come now and HE can tell the correct meaning. Thus it shows that you have to find out God in human form of the present generation to get the correct interpretation of all the scriptures of the world.

This also shows that God has to come in every human generation to preach other wise confusion will come to the followers. Now generally people are depending on other people for getting the interpretation. Those people are not authoratives. They simply tell something and very little truth only contained in them. But if God Himself talk then correct meaning according to the level of the receiver He can speak and His words will be perfectly logical and contain strength which will even perierce your inner conciousness.

You yourself can understand or identify God in human form of your generation.


Jesus didn't die on a cross in order to do nothing more than teach a philosophy.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Melodist on November 02, 2010, 08:34:08 PM

At the ascension, the angels said He would return in the same manner in which He went up. So far no one has done that. When Christ does return, there will be no room for error on whether or not it is really Him.

Why Jesus has to come agian and again now also.....

When Jesus came, that past generation was blessed by Jesus and due to this God becomes partial. The direct experience through direct dialogues is a real fortune. God is impartial and is coming down in human form in every generation. The entire public in the world need not have the chance of meeting the Lord in any generation. Only the ripened souls raised to the high level can have this chance because they really require it. In the university the UG classes and PG classes are running. The highest PhD program is also present. A professor, some readers and many lecturers exist in the teaching faculty. The professor is not required to go to any UG class. For a few hours, he goes to the PG class and spends most of the time with research scholars. There are many UG sections. There is one PG section.


There are half a dozen research students. The professor is available to all the students but is really required only for a few students. All the students are in his contact because the Professor addresses occasionally all the UG sections also. The lecturers are fully required to the UG sections. The Readers are more required for the PG sections and less required by the research scholars.


The Professor is mostly required by the research students. Similarly God in human form is in contact with all the souls in the generation. But He is utilized by a few only due to more requirement to that level. Depending on the requirement of language and area and the communication facilities, there may be more human incarnations of God in one generation like a few Professors require. But if the communication facilities have improved and if a single language like English can be understood by all countries, there is no need of a second Professor.


I feel in the present human generation in view of the developed communication skills and the uniform language, one human incarnation of God is sufficient at the highest level. He is always accompanied by the angels who are at various levels like Readers and lecturers.



He always descends down along with the faculty of the department in every generation because the levels of the students cannot disappear even if the communication skills and universal language exist. Moreover the analytical capacity of the public is improved a lot due to fantastic development of science. The science of today is nothing but the Tarka Shastra of ancient time. Therefore the knowledge that is going to be revealed by the God in the single human form in the present generation is going to be tremendous reflecting all the scriptures and science from all the angles like a Tsunami covering from all sides.


God took on our nature in order to heal it, not teach philosophy. This only requires one incarnation including everything from being conceived and born of a woman, growing as one of us, suffering as one of us, dieing as one of us, being raised from the dead never to die again overcoming all of our infirmities, ascending into heaven to fully sanctify and glorify our nature, and a second coming to raise up all the dead and set everything straight for good.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 03, 2010, 06:56:23 AM

God took on our nature in order to heal it, not teach philosophy. This only requires one incarnation including everything from being conceived and born of a woman, growing as one of us, suffering as one of us, dieing as one of us, being raised from the dead never to die again overcoming all of our infirmities, ascending into heaven to fully sanctify and glorify our nature, and a second coming to raise up all the dead and set everything straight for good.

Such a belief is good and it should be converted into practical service. Jesus will not carry sins of all the people. He carried the sins of HIs own people who worked for His mission and loved Him when He came to this world. Time to time He is coming and He is carrying the sins by coming in other human forms. Carrying the sins should live. How Jesus can carry your sins when you are not even born, 2000yr back! Jesus carried the sins of His people who loved Him and worked for Him not for all.

Holy Jesus suffered for the sins of the real believers of God only. One of the basic ideas of the human incarnation is to suffer for the sins of deserving devotees. The human body is selected for incarnation for this very purpose. The human body of the incarnation suffers like any other human body. Then alone is the real transfer of sins fully justified. The incarnation can avoid the pain during suffering devotees’ sins by using the super power of God. But God never deceives justice. Therefore Jesus really suffered all the punishments of deserving devotees as any other human body suffers and fulfilled the justice in the transfer of sins. This is the real reason why God selects a human body and gets identified with it. If it is an inert statue, such transfer of suffering cannot take place.

Although the Son is suffering on the Holy Cross, actually it is the Father who pervaded all over the Son that suffered. This is the essence of saying that Father and Son are one and the same.

The Father does not suffer the sins of wicked people who will not change at all. Those who are the real devotees and those who have served the Lord without aspiring for anything in return are only liberated from their sins. Such devotees never pray to the Lord for liberation from their sins because they never desire that the Lord should suffer for their sins. Therefore, they never agree to the liberation from their sins. If they come to know, they will object to such a transfer of sins because they are the real devotees of God. Hence the Lord suffers for their sins without revealing it to them. If you do not turn to the Lord, you have to carry all your sins with you and go to hell. If you turn towards the Lord, He will liberate you from all your sins provided you change and continue the rest of your life in His divine service.

 His work is to bring peace in this world and see that every human being gets salvation. He wants hell to be permanently closed. But you should turn towards God without aspiring for liberation from your sins. You must participate in His service and yet you should be ready to undergo the punishments of your sins as per the rule. You should not ask Him or even desire for such liberation from your sins. Once you desire for such liberation, you are indirectly asking the Lord to suffer for your sins. In such a case, you are not His real devotee. He takes your sins and liberates you only when you serve Him without any aspiration for such liberation.






Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 03, 2010, 06:56:24 AM

It's clear you don't understand the Christian Trinity, because almost nothing you said here is Christian. Your beliefs are not compatible with Christianity, try as you might to put them in a blender together.


Holy Spirit means Pure Awareness or Sattvam (Sattvaat Samjayate Jnanam—Gita). The word spirit stands for the soul, which is made of pure awareness. The Gita says that this pure awareness generates divine knowledge. As long as Jesus remained in this world, He Himself can be the effective preacher of the divine knowledge. As long as He was present here, no disciple could effectively preach divine knowledge.

 When Jesus left this world, then only could the disciples effectively preach the divine knowledge to propagate it. This is the inner meaning of that scripture. The divine knowledge was given to the world through Jesus and such divine knowledge existed in His conversations with two or three spiritual devotees (Satsanga). For discussions, neither large numbers nor a single person is convenient. A qualitative seminar contains only a few selected gems.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 03, 2010, 06:56:24 AM
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ~Matthew 7:15

The scriptures quoted by you (Mat 11:21; Mat 13 etc.,) mean that disciples or false human incarnations cannot imitate the real human incarnation. In the time of Lord Krishna, a false incarnation called Poundraka Vasudeva claimed that he was the true incarnation.

Parashurama and Shri Rama were both human incarnations of the same Lord and existed simultaneously. Similarly Sai Baba and Akkalkot Maharaj, both were incarnations of Datta existing simultaneously. The scripture quoted by you applies to Poundraka Vasudeva, who was a false human incarnation. This scripture is applicable in every human generation. It is an eternal divine statement beyond the concept of time.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: mike on November 03, 2010, 06:58:35 AM
Who cares what fairy tales do Gita, Krishna or Poundraka say?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on November 03, 2010, 08:28:04 AM


(http://ri.rediffiland.com/homepimages/home6/642/1e0c7b39c43a60be34b7e8ea4410dff9/homep/images/1224153550)

Simply displaying some words will not make you GOd at all!

God is associated with divine knowledge. If you are God then you will speak wonderful divine knowledge since the source who is God is present in you.

But you are speaking not even very low level knowledge also, so how i can consider you as God!! No way.

Identity mark of God is wonderful divine knowledge with specific intensity which enters your brain and clarify all your doubts and improve your devotion on God. Without all these sign you are rejected as God....
[/quote]
woh!  hold on there, Swami!  I meant this as a joke. God is not incarnate. he was at one time, and we all have him inside us (Holy Spirit), but he is no longer in human form. 
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: genesisone on November 03, 2010, 08:46:39 AM
woh!  hold on there, Swami!  I meant this as a joke. God is not incarnate. he was at one time, and we all have him inside us (Holy Spirit), but he is no longer in human form. 
Careful with this, Trevor. Our Lord Jesus Christ took on human nature at His Incarnation. He remains a human being forever, just as He is divine forever. He has a glorified resurrected body that in no way limits His Divinity. Human nature and divine nature are perfectly united in Jesus Christ. If He is no longer a human being, then He never was a human being. His humanity is the basis of our iconography.

You might want to begin your review of the Incarnation here (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Incarnation). And be sure to read On the Incarnation by St Athanasius. If you prefer podcasts, Deacon Michael Hyatt has recently done a series on this very topic here (http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/eastwest).
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 03, 2010, 02:02:24 PM
woh!  hold on there, Swami!  I meant this as a joke. God is not incarnate. he was at one time, and we all have him inside us (Holy Spirit), but he is no longer in human form. 
Careful with this, Trevor. Our Lord Jesus Christ took on human nature at His Incarnation. He remains a human being forever, just as He is divine forever. He has a glorified resurrected body that in no way limits His Divinity. Human nature and divine nature are perfectly united in Jesus Christ. If He is no longer a human being, then He never was a human being. His humanity is the basis of our iconography.

You might want to begin your review of the Incarnation here (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Incarnation). And be sure to read On the Incarnation by St Athanasius. If you prefer podcasts, Deacon Michael Hyatt has recently done a series on this very topic here (http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/eastwest).

Yes, our humanity is able to be deified because Christ's humanity is deified.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Papist on November 03, 2010, 02:36:16 PM

woh!  hold on there, Swami!  I meant this as a joke. God is not incarnate. he was at one time, and we all have him inside us (Holy Spirit), but he is no longer in human form. 
God the Son is still incarnate.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 04, 2010, 06:12:50 AM
woh!  hold on there, Swami!  I meant this as a joke. God is not incarnate. he was at one time, and we all have him inside us (Holy Spirit), but he is no longer in human form. 
Careful with this, Trevor. Our Lord Jesus Christ took on human nature at His Incarnation. He remains a human being forever, just as He is divine forever. He has a glorified resurrected body that in no way limits His Divinity. Human nature and divine nature are perfectly united in Jesus Christ. If He is no longer a human being, then He never was a human being. His humanity is the basis of our iconography.

You might want to begin your review of the Incarnation here (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Incarnation). And be sure to read On the Incarnation by St Athanasius. If you prefer podcasts, Deacon Michael Hyatt has recently done a series on this very topic here (http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/eastwest).

I agree Jesus was God in Flesh. But my point is same Jesus comes again
and again in human form in every human generation to preach and uplift
the human souls, otherwise Jesus will become partial to only one generation,
 Jesus is not partial He is impartial!

Let us analyse this. I will never preach anything without an analysis.
You yourself can use your own brain and analyse my statements. NO forcing
it is your own conciouness which decide this analysis is true or false.....

 Bible says that Jesus is the God in flesh, but Gita says for a Hindu,
That Krishna is the God in flesh, let us analyse both these views?
I am not touching Buddhism and Islam in this topic because Islam believes
That Mohammad is not God in flesh and He was only messenger of God.
Buddhism keeps silent on the God and no question of God in flesh for them.
If the Bible told that Krishna was not God in flesh or if Gita told that
Jesus was not God in flesh, then both Bible and Gita are valid.


When the scriptures does not mention like this in complete version
How can you interpret your own scripture in the other way?
More over all of you whether Christians or Hindus have to accept
The concept of one God, there is no other alternative way in this.
You say that your God created this entire world and Hindus say that
Their God created this same entire world, unfortunately my dear friends!
I do not find two worlds and I find only one world! Now tell me
 
Whether this single entire world is created by Christian God or Hindu God?
One of you or both should be wrong and in that case who is wrong?
Either you should have two separate worlds or you should have single God.
If both the scriptures are wrong and both Gods did not create this Universe
Then the vote goes to Science, which says that the world exists by itself.
They say that no body created this world and it is self-existent.


Since both are sacred scriptures, let us solve this problem by analysis.
If you are rigid of your own scripture, I am not touching you at all.
If one is rigid where is the place for logical analysis and judgement?
In the court if one party says that what ever it says is the only truth
What is the necessity of the court, advocates, arguments and judgement?
If you leave rigidity and become flexible to accept the truth
After analysis only, you are most welcome to my Universal Spirituality.
 
Even in the small worldly matters, we apply open mind and analysis,
I wonder why you are not applying the same open mind and analysis
In such most important spiritual knowledge which decides everything.
The word Jesus stands for Human Incarnation and similarly the word Krishna.
In scriptures, we have to take the internal meanings and not simple external
Meanings for the sacred words, each word is ocean of divine knowledge.
Bible says that the lamb will come in red robe, here what is the meaning
For the word lamb? Is it simple animal with four legs and one tail.
Does this mean that Jesus will come again as animal? Here you say
That the word lamb stands for the Lord who is pure and innocent
Like the lamb, at one place you take the inner meaning and at other place
You take the external meaning! Therefore, the word Jesus means God in flesh,
Which means that the Lord comes in human form with blood and flesh.
 
This is a great concept, which Jesus tried to establish to the devotees.
Till then the Islam believed only in the formless God called Allah.
Islam does not treat Mohammad as God in flesh even today.
Jesus told that He and His father are one and the same, what does this mean?
Here the word father does not mean Joseph, the husband of His mother Mary.
If you take the meaning of the word of father in the external sense only
It is impossible because two human beings cannot be one and the same.
That Creator is indicated by the word father and human incarnation by the word Jesus
Both are one and the same since God pervaded all over the human incarnation.
If you take the meaning of the word Jesus as a particular human body only,
Then the meaning of the word father should also mean another particular human body.
In that case both the human bodies cannot be one and the same because
We are seeing the father and the son represented by two separate human bodies.
Similarly Jesus told that one could reach His father only through Him.
 
This again should mean that nobody could see or meet Joseph without Jesus.
But it is not so because several people have seen Joseph even before Jesus was born.
You are taking the inner meaning for the word father and say that father means God.
But for the word Jesus you are taking a particular human body only.
This is not justified and even a child will contradict this different approach.
When it is said that Jesus will baptise by fire, does it mean Jesus will sprinkle fire?
In such case the baptized person will be burnt with fire, therefore, the word fire
Means Knowledge as said in Gita “Jnanaagnih”, moreover if you stick the word
Jesus to a particular human body only and if you say that Jesus exists even now,
Please show Me Jesus as the same human body to My eyes also, in the past
When Jesus was alive everyone could show Jesus as human body to anyone.
Whether a believer or a non-believer saw Jesus as human body in the past.


Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on November 04, 2010, 10:52:50 AM
woh!  hold on there, Swami!  I meant this as a joke. God is not incarnate. he was at one time, and we all have him inside us (Holy Spirit), but he is no longer in human form. 
Careful with this, Trevor. Our Lord Jesus Christ took on human nature at His Incarnation. He remains a human being forever, just as He is divine forever. He has a glorified resurrected body that in no way limits His Divinity. Human nature and divine nature are perfectly united in Jesus Christ. If He is no longer a human being, then He never was a human being. His humanity is the basis of our iconography.

You might want to begin your review of the Incarnation here (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Incarnation). And be sure to read On the Incarnation by St Athanasius. If you prefer podcasts, Deacon Michael Hyatt has recently done a series on this very topic here (http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/eastwest).
my apologies, this is still quite new to me.  I meant this because it sounds to me that Swami says he keeps coming in human form...this, to me, is a bit odd.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: genesisone on November 04, 2010, 11:52:13 AM
woh!  hold on there, Swami!  I meant this as a joke. God is not incarnate. he was at one time, and we all have him inside us (Holy Spirit), but he is no longer in human form. 
Careful with this, Trevor. Our Lord Jesus Christ took on human nature at His Incarnation. He remains a human being forever, just as He is divine forever. He has a glorified resurrected body that in no way limits His Divinity. Human nature and divine nature are perfectly united in Jesus Christ. If He is no longer a human being, then He never was a human being. His humanity is the basis of our iconography.

You might want to begin your review of the Incarnation here (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Incarnation). And be sure to read On the Incarnation by St Athanasius. If you prefer podcasts, Deacon Michael Hyatt has recently done a series on this very topic here (http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/eastwest).

I agree Jesus was God in Flesh. But my point is same Jesus comes again
and again in human form in every human generation to preach and uplift

***big snip***

If you leave rigidity and become flexible to accept the truth
After analysis only, you are most welcome to my Universal Spirituality.
If you mean by rigidity my devotion to Jesus Christ, then I pray that I will become even more rigid with each passing day. I have no interest in becoming a Hindu like you. If you wish to learn more about Jesus Christ, then please feel free to ask questions - without wrapping them up in some philosophical mystical-sounding, falsely spiritual nonsense.
Quote
Even in the small worldly matters, we apply open mind and analysis,
I wonder why you are not applying the same open mind and analysis
In such most important spiritual knowledge which decides everything.
The word Jesus stands for Human Incarnation and similarly the word Krishna.

***big snip***

When Jesus was alive everyone could show Jesus as human body to anyone.
Whether a believer or a non-believer saw Jesus as human body in the past.



You have a lot to learn about Jesus Christ and the faith that we hold. Listen more and say less. It will benefit you.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: genesisone on November 04, 2010, 11:58:51 AM
woh!  hold on there, Swami!  I meant this as a joke. God is not incarnate. he was at one time, and we all have him inside us (Holy Spirit), but he is no longer in human form. 
Careful with this, Trevor. Our Lord Jesus Christ took on human nature at His Incarnation. He remains a human being forever, just as He is divine forever. He has a glorified resurrected body that in no way limits His Divinity. Human nature and divine nature are perfectly united in Jesus Christ. If He is no longer a human being, then He never was a human being. His humanity is the basis of our iconography.

You might want to begin your review of the Incarnation here (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Incarnation). And be sure to read On the Incarnation by St Athanasius. If you prefer podcasts, Deacon Michael Hyatt has recently done a series on this very topic here (http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/eastwest).
my apologies, this is still quite new to me.  I meant this because it sounds to me that Swami says he keeps coming in human form...this, to me, is a bit odd.
I understand that you're having a hard time trying to put these concepts into words. Imagine the work that went into the Ecumenical Councils trying to get the words right! Remember we believe in God's only-begotten Son. Jesus Christ became incarnate only once.

Have you had a chance to check the references I suggested? Especially the podcast series?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 08, 2010, 11:36:44 AM
[quote author
 I have no interest in becoming a Hindu like you.
Quote

Who told you to become Hindu? ! One should never change ones own religion! Same God exists in all the religion. Then why should one change the religion at all! There is only one God, who comes in every human generation in human form for teaching us the divine knowledge. Only to a alive God one can do practical sacrifice and prove our love to Him. Only an alive GOd can clarify all our doubts by speaking to us through His mouth directly to us. Such God is the present human incarnation. I am taking about the concept of Human incarnation and not RELIGION! or conversion etc....(which are very bad tactic adopted by foolish people, these conversion etc!)

God comes in human form so that our love to Him is proved through practical sacrifice to Him. No body can serve an invisible God practically. God has to be here on this very earth now in human form so that we can listen to Him directly the way those fishermen listened to Jesus 2000 yrs ago alive.

Jesus is impartial and comes in every human generation to give the same opportunity that He had given to those 12 fishermen even today, so that one can touch Him, see Him, co-live with Him and clarify all their doubts directly from Him. This is the point; and not conversion, changing religion not... not at all!

Point is about God coming in human form in every generation and identification of Him through His divine knowledge. Now the concept is given to you.

You know, when JESUS came how much opposition He received from then existed orthodox people and Priests and Jews. They were expecting the Massiaha (God in human form) to come to them to redeem them(giving salvation). But when actually Jesus came, they could not identify Him, they told that He is possed with Satan!. If you read bible especially St.John's Gospel, there you can see that how much Jesus tried to convice Jews and Priests about the concept of Human incarnation!

Due to their rigidity they were accepting only Mosses the past Propht not Jesus the then God in human form. They rejected Him and crucified Him. One of the main reason is Jealosy and Egoism towards other co-human beings....

The same cinema repeats now also.

Only by accepting and serving present human form of God you can completely please God, because when you serve a living form of GOD, the service is directly received by God existing in that human form and GOd is pleased extremely. Pleasing of God is the main aim of human life and pleasing is perfect and complete when you serve God in human form existing now on the earth, since GOd is always present in Him and preaches wonderful divine knowledge for your practical upliftment. God is kind Father and hence He decends into this world in human form to take care of your spiritual advancement

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 08, 2010, 11:36:44 AM
Quote from: genesisone link=topic=30872.msg489535#msg489535
You have a lot to learn about Jesus Christ and the faith that we hold. Listen more and say less. It will benefit you.
[/quote



Do not bother that you are unable to practice the highest truth today itself. Atleast accept the truth in theory. That first step is sufficient. One day or other, either in this life, or in some future life (human life is assured for any one who tries constantly) you will succeed. If you accept theoretically, you have put your foot on the first step of right path. Journey and achievement of goal are inevitable. It is only a matter of time. But if you deny the truth even theoretically, you are in the wrong path. You want immediate fruit and so you want to lower the goal. You want to sleep at 8 PM and want to become IAS officer.

 You want 40 marks as pass! You think that you can get the 40 marks and pass. But My dear friend! If you keep 40 marks as goal, you will get five or ten marks only! Actually 100 is distinction and 40 is a pass mark. But we have kept it as secret and say 100 marks is the pass, so that you will achieve 40 certainly while trying for 100. This is called as “Arthavada” (which means a statement created for a purpose) in the Veda. It means a spiritual secret like the business secret.

 When you get five marks only and feel discouraged by seeing at 100 mark goal, then, in your case, to encourage you, we shall say that 40 marks is the pass-goal. Therefore, Acharyas know to close and open the secrecy of truth according to the condition of the student. In some context truth has to be opened and in some other context, truth has to be covered. This brought the difference in the preaching of the human incarnations, which was based on the difference in the stages of different people, they faced in their times. If you realize this practical problem you can easily realize that there is only one God in all the divine human incarnations.


Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 08, 2010, 11:36:45 AM
my apologies, this is still quite new to me.  I meant this because it sounds to me that Swami says he keeps coming in human form...this, to me, is a bit odd.

The divine knowledge will make you realize that though this world is real for the soul, the bonds between souls are unreal and dramatic. The sage Astavakra preaches the King Janaka through “Astavakra Samhita”, in which, the sage says that the mother and son in this life are becoming husband and wife in the next life! It is a hero and heroine acting two different roles in different pictures. We have two pictures running side by side in two theatres in which the same couple of actors acting as husband and wife in one picture and acting as mother and son in another picture! This bond did not exist in the past birth and will not exist in the future birth. That which was unreal in the past and will be unreal in the future is also unreal in the present according to Shankara. It is just a dramatic bond.

 Realize the main aim of human life and concentrate on that. You are unnecessarily worried in the side activity, which is just a change for recreation. Let her or him go to hell. Do not bother about it. There should be no tension in a game for a student. Game is just a recreation arranged for change. Do not be jealous on a classmate in a game. Be jealous in studies on the same classmate, because study is the main aim of your college life. Attractions are spontaneous, which can neither be created nor suppressed by force.

 A forced attraction by fear is not real and what is the use of such faith and love? In spiritual path also, the attraction to God should be spontaneous and natural without fear or force.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 09, 2010, 05:07:23 AM
[quote author=trevor72694 link=topic=30872.msg489489#msg489489
my apologies, this is still quite new to me.  I meant this because it sounds to me that Swami says he keeps coming in human form...this, to me, is a bit odd.
[/quote]

The human form of the Lord, which comes to test you, is itself called Datta. People are fond of statues because there is minimum guarantee of the business with the statue. You give one chocolate to the Lord aspiring for ten chocolates. The ten chocolates may be given or may not be given. But at least the one chocolate, which you have given must not be lost. This is the minimum guarantee business, which only you prefer in the world. Therefore when you offer one chocolate to the statue it will not eat. The ten chocolates may come or may not come. At least your one chocolate is saved but if you give one chocolate to the human form of the Lord, He will eat it and thus the minimum guarantee is lost.


The factors involved for your success in the test of Datta are 1) Can you give more value to the Lord than any thing and any body in this world? 2) Can you believe the human form of the Lord, which has approached you completely without any trace of doubt?


Majority of the people fail in the first point itself because they are using the Lord to achieve and happiness to their families. Such instrumental God cannot have more value than the money or the family. A very few top most devotees succeed in the first point. But they fail in the second point to recognize the human form of the Lord and to believe the human form of the Lord completely.

 Therefore they fail in the second point. Only one in millions and that too in one birth out of millions of births can succeed in both the points. Gita says the same (Kaschitmaam Bahunaam Janmanaam). The factors that will help you to pass the test are to catch the Satguru who can alone explain the true path from Vedas and the mental determination, which is attained by you either in this birth or in the previous births.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: genesisone on November 09, 2010, 08:49:18 AM
Quote
[quote author
 I have no interest in becoming a Hindu like you.

Who told you to become Hindu? ! One should never change ones own religion! Same God exists in all the religion. Then why should one change the religion at all! There is only one God, who comes in every human generation in human form for teaching us the divine knowledge. Only to a alive God one can do practical sacrifice and prove our love to Him. Only an alive GOd can clarify all our doubts by speaking to us through His mouth directly to us. Such God is the present human incarnation. I am taking about the concept of Human incarnation and not RELIGION! or conversion etc....(which are very bad tactic adopted by foolish people, these conversion etc!)

God comes in human form so that our love to Him is proved through practical sacrifice to Him. No body can serve an invisible God practically. God has to be here on this very earth now in human form so that we can listen to Him directly the way those fishermen listened to Jesus 2000 yrs ago alive.

Jesus is impartial and comes in every human generation to give the same opportunity that He had given to those 12 fishermen even today, so that one can touch Him, see Him, co-live with Him and clarify all their doubts directly from Him. This is the point; and not conversion, changing religion not... not at all!

Point is about God coming in human form in every generation and identification of Him through His divine knowledge. Now the concept is given to you.

You know, when JESUS came how much opposition He received from then existed orthodox people and Priests and Jews. They were expecting the Massiaha (God in human form) to come to them to redeem them(giving salvation). But when actually Jesus came, they could not identify Him, they told that He is possed with Satan!. If you read bible especially St.John's Gospel, there you can see that how much Jesus tried to convice Jews and Priests about the concept of Human incarnation!

Due to their rigidity they were accepting only Mosses the past Propht not Jesus the then God in human form. They rejected Him and crucified Him. One of the main reason is Jealosy and Egoism towards other co-human beings....

The same cinema repeats now also.

Only by accepting and serving present human form of God you can completely please God, because when you serve a living form of GOD, the service is directly received by God existing in that human form and GOd is pleased extremely. Pleasing of God is the main aim of human life and pleasing is perfect and complete when you serve God in human form existing now on the earth, since GOd is always present in Him and preaches wonderful divine knowledge for your practical upliftment. God is kind Father and hence He decends into this world in human form to take care of your spiritual advancement
(I think I have the quote tags fixed up accurately.)
Who told me to become a Hindu? You did. What you have written is NOT the Christian Orthodox faith. If you want me to believe as you do, then I would have to become a Hindu.

Let me repeat what I said earlier: You have a lot to learn about Jesus Christ and the faith that we hold. Listen more and say less. It will benefit you.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on November 09, 2010, 11:31:23 AM
Quote from: dattaswami
Same God exists in all the religion.

Sorry, no.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 09, 2010, 11:58:25 AM
Where is dattaswami's "off" button?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on November 09, 2010, 12:13:29 PM
Where is dattaswami's "off" button?

He gave us a break over the weekend... I think that's the best we are going to get  :angel:
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 09, 2010, 05:35:21 PM
I was afraid of that.  :-[
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 12:38:11 AM

(I think I have the quote tags fixed up accurately.)
Who told me to become a Hindu? You did. What you have written is NOT the Christian Orthodox faith. If you want me to believe as you do, then I would have to become a Hindu.

Let me repeat what I said earlier: You have a lot to learn about Jesus Christ and the faith that we hold. Listen more and say less. It will benefit you.
[/quote]

Datta means the unimaginable God donated to the devotees through a visible human body.Datta means the God who is given to devotees, you can meet Him in this world in human form only. Gita says that God comes in human form only (Manusheem……). Gita also says that if one worships formless, he or she gets sorrow only (Avyaktahi…). Gita also says that if you worship a statue, you are born as a stone (Bhutejyah….). A statue has only a limited use of being seen by devotees (Darsanam) and is not meant for worship. A human form only gives full satisfaction to devotees during worship.

Yoga means joining the God after cutting all the family bonds. The bonds can be cut only when a new bond with God is formed. Without the new bond, the old bond cannot be cut. First attachment to God (Bhakti) should come and detachment from the relatives (Vyragya) is a natural consequence for which no effort is needed. Once you taste the divine nectar, you will naturally stop drinking coffee. Without tasting the divine nectar it is impossible to leave coffee, because we desire always to drink something. So without Bhakti Vyragya is impossible and meaningless. It is meaningless because a stone having no bond at all is not salvated.

Lord Datta who is called Yogi Raja (Master of Yoga) can only bring out the real essence of Yoga and He has given the true explanation today to show the real path to ignorant people. The strength of this discourse is only Truth and hence it will pierce into the heart of anyone having open mind in this world. My aim of this discourse is all foreigners and those Indians who have open mind without blind conservatism.

What is the eligibility for the admission into our religion of Guru Datta? The eligibility is that you should be a living being. Even animals and birds are eligible to reach God irrespective of their qualities. Even serpent, spider and the elephant got salvation in Sri Kala Hasthi. The serpent has all bad qualities. God did not insist the serpent to get rid of all the bad qualities. Even if God says, the serpent is unable to understand put the efforts. When such a serpent is eligible, why not a man? All the people are depressed and dejected with the eligibility conditions stipulated by various religions. For example if an Institution stipulates the eligibility condition as that one should remove his head and come, nobody can be admitted. Similarly the religions stipulate the removal of all the bad qualities, which is impossible. Only a temporary control is possible which is necessary for you to live in this world with peace. This control is possible. In our religion also we are stipulating this condition, which is possible. So, in our Datta religion, the eligibility condition is that if your bad qualities do not disturb the world, the Lord has no personal objection to them and you need not even control them. Moreover, they will help you in spiritualism.

How to turn the bad qualities towards God and make them helpers in reaching the God? There are six bad qualities that are inherent in any living being since millions of births. They are Lust (kama), Anger (krodha), Greediness (Lobha), ego (mada), Blind attraction (Moha) and Jealousy (Matsarya). Anger, greediness, ego and jealousy come under Rajas quality. Lust and blind attraction come under Tamas quality. I give you an example to divert your bad qualities towards the Lord, which can be used as powerful vehicles. Example:- Love in cinema songs can be diverted to the Lord by little change in words. Then, the powerful tune that created sweet feelings in you is now a powerful vehicle to make you to reach the Lord.

A film song ‘Churaliya Tumne ……’) instead of ‘Sanam’ replace the word with ‘Hare’. All the sweetness of your mind is now on the Lord Jesus. See how a person, mad after cinema songs become a powerful devotee in his own way without any change! You can sing this as your prayer for which you need not put any effort by force. Your worship should be natural and spontaneous, which alone can be true.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on November 10, 2010, 12:58:23 AM
So Hindus don't go to Starbucks?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 01:21:41 AM
This forum is for the discussion of Orthodox Christianity, not a forum for the dissemination of Hinduism. I think it would be best if you would stop posting these things here.

I do not understand why are you telling like this! You know, Jesus was very much interested in discussion of divine knowledge. He never told that 'Follow Me Blindly'. He discussed and expalined the inner meaning of divine knoweldge with patience and through parables. Why are you not understanding this. God alone can give the inner meaning of divine knoweldge. It is His duty to preach the divine knowledge? Why are you objecting it.

Rationality is the essence of the science. The scientist will laugh if you speak any thing irrational (Reasonless). Even in the small matters of this world, we analyze with reason and logic before we follow it and we say that we should not be emotional in taking any decision. Then think how much logical we should be in such a great spiritual effort, if you want to attain real success? In Christianity Jesus is called as Emmanuel, which means that God comes down from heaven to live with us.

Only a human form can live with us and guide us through knowledge. The Jewish priests at that time also did not believe in Jesus as God or Son of God or even as messenger of the God. They did not like the God to be introduced in human being as you say now. They believed only the dead messengers and not Jesus, who was the then messenger. The same logic applies today also. You believe the messenger who does not exist now. You do not believe the messenger who now exists before your eyes. Jesus told that He will come again. It means that the same human incarnation will come again and the same story repeats. The same Jesus is present today and the same people who were blind with egoism and jealousy are present again today. Therefore, I say, the history repeats. 

As Jesus was insulted, then, today also the egoistic and jealous people will insult Jesus. Jesus will come in every human generation to give His direct contact. Otherwise, God Jesus becomes partial, because He gave direct contact to one generation only and not to the other generations. He clarified the doubts of one generation only through His direct voice and now He allows the immature human devotees to answer the doubts directly in the other human generations. He provided the fortune of touching His feet in one generation only and other generations are deprived of that fortune. This makes Jesus totally partial and you say that God is impartial.

All the religions also say the same. How can you justify this important statement that God is impartial?

Therefore, we have accepted that God is coming in human form like Jesus in every human generation. In order to avoid answering this question, you are saying that reasoning should be avoided. When reasoning is discarded, you need not answer any question. Whatever you say that must be the truth. You are rigid without any logic and this is the blind conservatism. This cancer is present in every religion and humanity is always is divided by this cancer. You are opposing the unity of humanity and want to disturb the world peace. God will not tolerate you, and you will be thrown in to permanent hell for misleading the ignorant people.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 01:22:12 AM
So Hindus don't go to Starbucks?
Meaning?

If a Christian loves another Christian as his brother, there is no greatness in it. Similarly, there is no greatness if a Hindu loves another Hindu as his brother. The greatness lies if a Christian loves the Hindu as his brother and vice-versa. A true Christian must love a true Hindu as his brother and should treat a wrong Christian as an outsider.

Similarly a true Hindu must love a true Christian as his brother and must treat a wrong Hindu as an outsider. Suppose you are in white dress. An outsider is also in the white dress, but your own brother is in blue dress. Based on the colour of the external dress will you treat the outsider who is in the same colour of the dress as your own brother?

 Will you treat your own brother as an outsider because the colour of his dress is different from your dress? You are recognizing your own brother not by the external dress but by the internal body in which your own parental blood is flowing. Similarly, you are recognizing the outsider as the outsider based on the point that his inner body contains some other parental blood.

 Therefore, you must recognize your real brother not by the external religion but you must recognize your brother by the internal spirituality. If the spiritual values and levels are coinciding to your stage, such a devotee is your real brother whether he is a Hindu or a Christian or a Muslim or a Buddhist. For example take the spiritual value of speaking the truth. Any person belonging to any religion must be your real brother if he speaks the truth.

 You must treat a person as an outsider even if he is belonging to your religion if he is a liar. The spiritual value is the real parental blood i.e., descending from the original Godfather. When this is achieved the universal spirituality becomes meaningful and alive. Therefore, analyse and judge the spiritual values of other person to make friendship with him irrespective of his nationality, language, caste, sex, age and religion.

 God will be immensely pleased if this attitude is developed. The main aim of our Universal Spirituality is only to establish such angle of view in the world. The religion is only external culture, which is related to language, habits of dress, habits of food and habits of regional styles of life.

The external religion is only ignorance like the covering smoke. The inner spirituality is like the internal burning flame of fire. The analysis is like putting on a fan that generates vigorous wind, which blows away all the external cloud of smoke and makes you visualize the true inner fire, which is the eternal spirituality.
 
   If you realize this internal spiritual knowledge, which is like the underlying fire, you can see the perfect homogeneity and unifying single phase. The language differs and therefore, the words differ, but the meaning is same. The water remains as water, which may be indicated by different words used by different languages. There is one entity, which is beyond the imagination. Such entity is called as God or Parabrahman.

 Such God has no beginning and no end because God is unimaginable. The beginning and the end must be also unimaginable for an unimaginable item. The beginning and the end of the cosmic energy or space or the creation are also unimaginable. Therefore, the beginning and the end are unimaginable for the unimaginable item like God and also for the imaginable item like space.

 Therefore, the two points, which are the beginning-less and end-less characteristics cannot help you in understanding the real nature of God. If you start recognizing the God by simply these two points (beginning-less and end-less), you may think that God is an imaginable item like the space or energy or the creation. In fact based on these two characteristics people have imagined God as an imaginable item like space or energy or creation.

 This concept has misled people to such a low level that people think that God is the very infinite space or infinite energy or infinite creation. Therefore, one should filter the concept of God at this juncture itself. One should think that God has no beginning and no end because the beginning and the end of an unimaginable item are also unimaginable.
 
   Such God desired to create this Universe for entertainment. The very desire itself is the Creation. In view of God this present materialized universe in only an idea or imagination or the very desire itself. Therefore, the desire to create the world is itself the desire and also the created world itself is a desire. Thus the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the imaginary world are also imaginations or desires.

 A part of this infinite creation is the individual soul. The soul is like a drop of the infinite ocean of imagination or desire of God. Thus, quantitatively the entire ocean of imagination of God is very huge compared to the tiny soul. Remember that both the Universe and the tiny soul are made of the same substance called as imagination or desire.

 Thus the force of the Universe is far greater than the force of the soul. Due to such huge quantitative difference of the same phase, the Universe, which is far stronger than the soul appears as a materialized entity for the soul. But this infinite ocean of desire, which is the infinite Universe is a tiny drop compared to the infinite force of God. Therefore, again due to the same quantitative difference of force the entire universe is just the very weak imagination from the view of God. Thus imagination and materialization exist simultaneously true from the point of God and soul.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 01:33:22 AM



 
   I repeatedly say that Hinduism and Christianity have the same basic structure of spiritual knowledge. When God comes down as Human Incarnation, He is viewed in three ways. Some people view the Human Incarnation as God in-Toto. When the electricity enters the wire it pervades all over the wire. Wherever you touch the wire you will experience the electricity. Veda says the same “Antar Bahischa Tat Sarvam…..”, which means that God pervaded all over the human body and is present inside as well as outside the human body of the Human Incarnation. This view is called as monoism (Advaita) of Sankara. This exactly coincides with the statement of Jesus “I and My Father are one and the same”. The Human Incarnation is convenient for the sake of human beings. The vision, touch, conversation and co-living are quite possible with Human Incarnation. The human body is exactly the similar medium in which the soul of a human being also exists.

 For any transaction common medium is the best. It is unnecessary and wastage of time and effort to try to see God in the medium of energetic form. For such a divine vision lot of severe penance has to be done. You have seen the same God in another medium called as energy. Is it not wastage of time and effort to try to see a person in a silk shirt, when the same person is appearing before you in the cotton shirt? The person is important and not the shirt. There is a saying which states that one caught a small rat after digging a big hill. Some people try to imagine God embedded in the pure awareness, which is the finest form of energy. Such form of energy is very very subtle and can be perceived only by imagination. The pure awareness is only the costliest shirt. Therefore, the time and effort you have concentrated on the meditation to perceive God in such costliest shirt through your mind is the climax of wastage of your time and effort. The penance to see the energetic form and the meditation to imagine God in pure awareness are unnecessary efforts because you can see the same God in the human body of the Human Incarnation.

 Moreover, the human body is very very clear for the vision. The energetic form cannot be seen by the naked eyes. Only by special energy granted by the Lord, the eyes can see such energetic form. The internal eye which is the mind can only imagine the form of pure awareness. Moreover, touch is not possible in the case of the forms of energy as well as awareness. Conversation with the form of pure awareness is very much subtle and unclear. The conversation with the energetic form can take place but that is also limited to a few seconds only. The energetic form is highly unstable and is subjected to diffusion. The entropy of the energetic form is very low and the spontaneity is towards the increase in entropy. Therefore, a long conversation is not possible with energetic forms. The energetic form appears for a few seconds only and grants the boons for the penance and disappears immediately by the process of diffusion.

Such energetic form is not at all convenient for co-living. If you see Lord Krishna, the devotees could see the Lord for a long time. They could embrace Him for a long time. They could talk with Him for any length of time till their doubts are cleared. They could even hear the sweet songs from the mouth of the Lord. They lived with the Lord closely for years together. Such fortune is unimaginable and thus the human form of God is the best. Only very very few fortunate devotees can recognize God in human form and receive all the benefits fully. Some devotees doubt the Lord in human form due to over logic and loose the golden chance. Therefore, a human being can approach God completely only through the human form. This is stated by Jesus “one can reach My Father only through Me”. Thus very fortunate devotees believe the monoism of the wire and the electricity and get the complete benefit.
 
   The second view is to see the God and the Human Body as separate items. The monoism gets diluted because of the natural egoism and jealousy of humanity. They cannot accept a particular human being as God. For such acceptance complete eradication of egoism and jealousy is needed which is highly impossible. God is present in the heart of the Human Incarnation. The Lord is wrapped by the human body like a chocolate is wrapped by a covering sheath. The inner Lord is the main component and the external human body is only a minor component. The human body is recognized as a part and parcel of the Lord but it is of least importance.

 One cannot experience the Lord just by seeing or touching the covering sheath. The main component is called as ‘Seshi’ and the minor component is called as ‘Sesha’. This is the philosophy of Ramanuja. Jesus also represents this concept. Jesus told that God is His Father and that He is the beloved son of the Lord. The son is always together with the Father and is not an outsider. The blood of the Father and the son is one and the same. Thus both are essentially one and the same but God has major importance and the son has minor importance. Whenever Jesus talked that He is the Son of God this line of philosophy appears, which is called as ‘Visishta Advaita’ or a special type of monoism. The Father and His son are physically separate but both are one and the same by their essence. The Father is like ocean and the Son is like a wave. The human beings cannot worship the God. For their convenience, a small part of God came down to give the divine experience.
 
   The third line of view is ‘Dvaita’ or Dualism. This results when the egoism and jealousy of a human being is in climax. They cannot accept any human being greater than themselves in any way. God is the Master and the Human Incarnation is only His dear servant. The servant is an outsider and has no blood relationship with the father. God sends His messenger to pass on His message on the earth. Every human being is a servant of God and thus all human beings are spiritually equal. God chooses a particular servant as a messenger to the earth. Such choosing of the messenger is only a chance. This belongs to Madhva. God never enters any human body and will not come down to the earth. Only a little power and His grace enter the messenger.

Whenever Jesus claimed Himself as the messenger from the God, this line of philosophy appeared. Islam believes this type of concept for them. Mohammed is only a messenger from God. They do not accept the concept of Human Incarnation. But they respect the messenger and worship Him as the representative of God. Thus this type of worship started the representative worship. A representative of God can be any object in the world. Not only the human body but also any non-living inert object can also stand as the representative of God. Based on this only, the Persians started worshipping Fire as God.

 Some devotees feel that God is the all-pervading cosmic energy, which is also inert. Some meditate upon God as the all-pervading pure awareness, which is also another special form of energy only. Life or awareness is a special form of nervous energy. Some have started worshipping every human being or even every living being as God. Some have expanded the concept to every living and nonliving object and thus treated the entire cosmos as God. Scientists believe that the ultimate is only this world. Thus this concept of representative worship ended with atheism finally. This concept has good sides also. When the Human Incarnation is denied the false human incarnations are prevented. Otherwise several preachers have started cheating the public by exploiting this concept. In that way this line of philosophy is no doubt good.
 
   Thus, the Christianity and Hinduism have the same structure of philosophy and can be treated as the two branches of the same tree. Only the language, culture, food habits etc., differ in these two religions. But the internal spiritual essence is one and the same. Only these two religions accept the concept of Human Incarnation and treat the human form as God. I do not understand why there is a quarrel between Hindus and Christians when such a wonderful homogeneity exists. The History also showed the mutual love and respect in these two religions as you can see the honour of Jesus in India and the honour of Hindu saints like Swami Vivekananda in Christian countries.

 No other two religions have such fusion as Christianity and Hinduism. When such homogenous religions quarrel with each other, not to speak of quarrels between heterogeneous religions. Never a Church in India was attacked and never a temple in America was attacked. The Christianity is spreading in India very easily. Similarly, Hinduism is also spreading very fast in Christian countries. Therefore, I wish the fusion of these two religions in the beginning to stand as an example for other religions also to fuse with each other. This will be the first step for the Universal Spirituality.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 10, 2010, 02:21:01 AM
My brother doesn't wear dresses.  Neither does my sister, for that matter.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: SolEX01 on November 10, 2010, 02:31:00 AM
Why are we receiving lectures on transcendental meditation?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 10, 2010, 02:38:30 AM
Is that what he's talking about?  I thought he was in haute couture.  ;)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 10, 2010, 02:56:21 AM
"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." ~Matthew 10:16
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Luke on November 10, 2010, 03:02:53 AM
(http://stash.norml.org/wp-content/uploads/please-do-not-feed-the-troll.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on November 10, 2010, 03:12:18 AM
More copypasta (http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1ACEW_ENUS366&q=laymen&aq=f&oq=#hl=en&expIds=17259,17315,18167,23628,23670,23945,25646,25907,26637,26761,26849,26869,27126,27271,27404,27405,27510,27520&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=%22I+repeatedly+say+that+Hinduism+and+Christianity%22&cp=1&qe=IkkgcmVwZWF0ZWRseSBzYXkgdGhhdCBIaW5kdWlzbSBhbmQgQ2hyaXN0aWFuaXR5Ig&qesig=qsbeg4nXsSu-K4P3o14fNQ&pkc=AFgZ2tnsrCArJF9IK6_37LDP8lDPzlBkm7mcYh60uhsID3AVIDa7cAFiFgbeJ2XshTg_yjf5vS-47Ar1FWU74jxeOas00EG-Ow&pf=p&sclient=psy&rlz=1G1ACEW_ENUS366&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=%22I+repeatedly+say+that+Hinduism+and+Christianity%22&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=a172e782197305bd)...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 10, 2010, 03:23:44 AM
It's getting boring.  Same mind-numbing babble.  I'm always hopeful, though.  ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tallitot on November 10, 2010, 03:53:56 AM
A Change in Consciousness
Just as a large fish swims alternately to both the banks of the river, the right and the left one, or to the eastern and the western, so glides the Purusha between both the boundaries, the boundary of dream and the boundary of the waking state.

Consciousness changes. This change in consciousness brings about either the waking or the dream experience. The objects do not change in themselves. There is only change in the mind.

Waking, Dreaming and Deep Sleep
Dream is called Sandhya or the intermediate state, because it is midway between waking and the deep sleep state, between Jagrat and Sushupti.

Here's the story of a lovely lady
Who was bringing up three very lovely girls.
All of them had hair of gold, like their mother,
The youngest one in curls.

Here's the store, of a man named Brady,
Who was busy with three boys of his own,
They were four men, living all together,
Yet they were all alone.

Till the one day when the lady met this fellow
And they knew it was much more than a hunch,
That this group would somehow form a family.
That's the way we all became the Brady Bunch.
The Brady Bunch,

That's the way we all became the Brady Bunch.
The Brady Bunch.



The dream world is separate from the waking one. Deep sleep is separate from both the dream world and the world in the waking state.


The sun is the source and the temporary resting place of its rays. The rays emanate from the sun and spread in all directions at the time of sunrise. They enter into the sun at sunset, lose themselves there, and come out again at the next sunrise. Even so, the states of wakefulness and dream come out from the state of deep sleep and re-enter it and lose themselves there to follow the same course again.

As soon as you wake up, the dream becomes unreal. The waking state does not exist in the dream. Both the dream and the waking states are not present in deep sleep. Deep sleep is not present in the dream and the waking states. Therefore, all the three states are unreal. They are caused by the three qualities, Sattva, Rajas and Tamas. Brahman or the Absolute is the silent witness of the three states. It transcends the three qualities also. It is pure bliss and pure consciousness. It is Existence Absolute.

The Mind in Dream
The mind is ever rotating like a wheel. It plays with the five senses of perception and gets experiences in the waking state. It receives the different sense impressions through the avenue of the senses. The impressions are lodged in the causal body. Ajnana or the causal body is like a black sheet of cloth. In it are contained the Samskaras of all your previous births.

During dream, the mind creates various kinds of objects out of the impressions produced by the experience of the waking state. Sometimes, the experiences of the previous births which are lodged in the causal body flash out during the dreaming state.

The mind is the perceiver and the mind itself is the perceived in dream. The dream objects are not independent of the mind. They have no separate existence apart from the mind. So long as the dream lasts, the dream creatures will remain, just as the milkman remains so long as the milking goes on. Whereas, in the Jagrat state, the object exists independent of the mind. The objects of the waking experiences are common to us all, while those of dreams are the property of the dreamer.

The mind creates the bee, flower, mountain, horses, rivers, etc., in the dream, without the help of any external means. It creates various curious, fantastic mixtures. You may witness in the dream that your living father is dead, that you are flying in the air. You may see in the dream a lion with the head of an elephant, a cow with the head of a dog. The desires that are not satisfied during the waking state are gratified in dream. Dream is a mysterious phenomenon. It is more interesting than the waking state.

Desires are the rulers of all experiences in waking and also in dream. Waking is physical functioning of desires; dream is mental functioning of desires. The senses are moved by desires in waking; the mind is moved by desires in dreaming. In waking, the mind experiences through the senses; in dream, the mind alone experiences.

The dreamer creates the world of his own in the dreaming state. Mind alone works independently in this state. The senses are withdrawn into the mind. The senses are at rest. The mind is then like a furious elephant let loose.

Just as a man withdraws himself from the outside world, closes the door and windows of his room, and works within the room, so also, the mind withdraws itself from the outside world and plays in the dream world with the Vasanas and Samskaras and enjoys objects made up of fine or subtle ideas which are the products of desire. Dream is a mere play of the mind only.

Just as pictures are painted on the canvas, so also, the impressions of the waking state are painted on the canvas mind. The pictures on the canvas seem to possess various dimensions though it is all on a plane surface only. Even so, though the dream-experiences are really states of the mind only, the experiencer experiences internality and externality in the dream world. He feels, while dreaming, that the dream world is quite real.

The dreamer only appears to be doing things in dream, but actually there is no activity. The scripture, in describing our doings in dreams, qualifies them by an ‘as it were’: "As it were rejoicing together with women, or laughing as it were’...". Ordinary people also describe dreams in the same manner: "I ascended, as it were, the summit of a mountain .... I saw a tree, as it were". Therefore, the dreaming self has no activity in dreams.

Dreams and Karma
The dreamer is not affected by any result whatever of the good and the evil he sees in the dream state. Because in dream the dreamer does not actually do what is holy or evil, he is not chained by either; for, good or evil actions and their consequences are not imputed to the mere spectator of them.

No one regards himself a sinner on account of the sins committed in dreams. Nor do people who have heard of them condemn or shun the person on that account. Hence he is not touched by them.

Dreams Are Created by the Lord
The dream objects are created by the Lord as fruition of the minor works of the Jiva. In order to reward the soul for very minor Karmas, the Lord creates the dreams.

The Universal Soul is the creator of dreams and not the individual soul; for, had it been possible for the latter to shape his dreams, he would never have dreamt a bad dream, but would always have dreamt only propitious ones.

Prophetic Dreams
Many riddles of life are solved through hints from dreams. Through dreams one may receive proper advice for self-correction. Through dreams one may know how to act in a particular situation. Saints and sages appear in dreams during times of difficulty and point out the way.

Works of genius like poems, etc., are found in dreams. Remedies for diseases are prescribed in dreams. Some times the exact object seen in dreams is seen afterwards in the waking state.

Dreams, an Index of One’s Moral Condition
Dreams, though of a strange and illusory nature, are a good index of the high or the low spiritual and moral condition of the dreamer. He who has a pure heart and an untainted character will never get impure dreams. An aspirant who is ever meditating will dream of his Sadhana and his object of meditation. He will do worship of the Lord and recite His Name and Mantra even in dream through the force of Samskara. Brahma-jnanins or sages have no dreams.

Dreams reveal to us that aspect of our nature which transcends rational knowledge. That in the most rational and moral man there is an aspect of his being which is absurd and immoral, one knows only through the study of one’s dreams. All our pride of rationality and morality melts into nothingness as soon as we reflect upon our dreams.

Subjective Reality, Objective Reality and Absolute Reality
Waking experience is a perception. Dream experience is a memory. As perception precedes memory, waking precedes dream. Whereas waking experience is independent of dream experience and its effects, dream experience is the result of the impressions of waking experience.

There is a kind of order or system in the waking experiences, at least more than in dream. Every day, the same persons and things become the objects of waking experience. There is a definite remembrance of previous day’s experiences and of survival and continuity of personality in waking experience. The consciousness of this continuity, regularity and unity is absent in dream. Dream is not well ordered, while waking is comparatively systematic.

Dream is less real than waking, in as much as the direct contact with the external world of waking experience is absent in dream. Though there is an external world in dream also, its value is less than that of the world in waking. Though the form of the dream world agrees with that of the waking world, in quality, the dream world is lower than the waking world.

Space, time, motion and objects, with the distinction of subject and object, are common to both waking and dreaming. Even the reality they present at the time of their being experienced is of a similar nature. But, the difference lies in the degree of reality manifested by them. The Jiva feels that it is in a higher order of truth in waking than in dreaming.

That the waking world has relative reality does not prove that it is real in the absolute sense. From the standpoint of the highest reality, waking experience also is unreal. As dream is transcended in the state of waking, the world of waking too, is transcended in the state of Self-realisation.

Dream is apparent reality. Waking is relative reality. Turiya or Brahman is absolute reality.

Waking is the reality behind dream. Turiya is the reality behind waking.

From the point of view of Turiya, both waking and dreaming are unreal. But, waking, taken by itself in relation to dream experience, has greater reality than dream. To a certain extent, as Turiya is to waking, so waking is to dream.

Dream is no dream to the dreamer. Only by one who is awake, dream is known to be a dream. Similarly, waking appears to be real to one who is still in the waking state. Only to one who is in Turiya, waking is devoid of reality. Waking is Deerghasvapna, a long dream, as contrasted with the ordinary dream which is short.

There are degrees of reality in the experiences of the individual. The three main degrees are subjective, objective and absolute. Dream experience is subjective. Waking experience is objective. The realisation of Atman or Brahman is experience of the absolute reality. The individual is the subjective being in comparison with the objective world. The subject and the object have equal reality, though both these are negated in the Absolute.

Waking—A Long Dream
In both states, waking and dreaming, objects are perceived, are associated with the subject-object relationship. This is the similarity between the two. The only difference between the two states is that the objects in dream are perceived in the space within the body, whereas in the waking condition, they are seen in the space outside the body. The fact of their ‘being seen’ and their consequent illusoriness, are common to both states.

The perception of an object is unreal, because objects are creations of the mind. An object has got a particular form, because the mind believes it to be so. In fact, objects of both the dreaming and the waking states are unreal.

Anything that has got a form is unreal. Forms are special modes of cognition and perception. They are not ultimate. In waking, there are physical forms; in dreaming, there are mental forms. Anyhow, all are forms only, limited in space and time. A form lasts only so long as that particular mental condition lasts. When there is a different mental condition, the forms of experience also change. This is why the form of the world vanishes when Self-realisation is attained.

Dream relations are contradicted by waking relations. Waking relations are contradicted by superconsciousness, which is uncontradicted. Non-contradiction is the test of reality.

The unreal world appears as real, whereas it is in reality a long dream arisen in our mind. As in dream, so in the waking state, the objects seen are unsubstantial, though the two conditions differ by the one being internal and subtle, and the other external, gross and long. This world is nothing but a long dream.

When, at sixty years age, you take a retrospective view of your life in college, it is all a dream to you. Is it not so? The future also will turn out to be so.

The past is a dream. The future is a dream. The solid present is also a dream. The fact that in Self-realisation there is absolute cessation of phenomenal experience shows that all phenomena are unreal.

Objections Refuted
It may be said that objects in the waking state serve some definite purpose and those of dream do not serve a purpose. This argument is incorrect, because the objects used as means to some end or purpose in the waking state are contradicted in the dream state. A man in the waking state eats and drinks and appeases his hunger and is free from thirst. But, when he goes to sleep, he finds himself in dream again afflicted with hunger and thirst as if he has not taken food and drink for days together. And the contrary also happens and is found to be true. The utility and objective worth of things, etc., in waking are cancelled in the dream state, even as the conditions and experiences in dream are invalidated in waking. Objects act as means to ends only in a particular condition, and not in all conditions. Things are real only in their realms, and not always. That which is not always real is an appearance, is unreal; for, reality is everlasting. As the objects of the waking state do not work in dream, they are unreal. As the objects of the dream do not work in the waking state, they are unreal. Hence, everything is unreal.

It may be contended that objects of dream are queer, fantastic and unnatural. And hence, waking cannot be like dream. But the experiences in dream, however grotesque or abnormal, are not abnormal to the dreamer. They appear fantastic only in a different state, viz., in waking. One cannot say what is really fantastic, and what is normal and real. The mind gives values to objects, and its conception of normality and abnormality changes according to the state in which it is. The dreamer has his own conception of space, time and causation, even as the waking one has his own notions. One state is absurd when compared to the other. This shows that both states are illogical, and therefore, absurd from the highest standpoint.

It may be said that objects seen in waking are not mere mental imaginations, because the objects of waking experience are seen by other people also, whether or not one’s mind cognises them. But, it is seen in the dream state also, objects of experience are open to the perception of other people, though the people as well as the objects are all subjective imaginations.

It may be said that in waking we perceive through the sense-organs and not merely through ideas. But it is seen, that in dream also, we perceive through the sense-organs belonging to the dream state, which are not less real than those of the waking state. As dream is unreal, waking also must be unreal.

The Dreamless Atman
There is one pure Consciousness or Atman in all beings which is infinite, eternal, all-pervading, self-existent, self-luminous and self-contained; which is partless, timeless, spaceless, birthless and deathless. This is the real ‘I’. This ‘I’ never wakes, dreams or sleeps. It is always the seer or the silent witness of the three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping. It is the Turiya or the fourth state. It is the state that transcends the three states.

It is the false or relative ‘I’ called Ahankara or ego or Jiva that wakes up, dreams and sleeps. The waker, the dreamer and the sleeper are all changing personalities and unreal.

The real Self, the real ‘I’, never wakes up, dreams and sleeps. From the viewpoint of the absolute truth or Paramarthika Satta, no one wakes up, dreams and sleeps.

Wake Up and Realise
Learn to be the witness of your thoughts in the waking state. You can be conscious in the dream state that you are dreaming. You can alter, stop or create your own thoughts in the dream state independently. You will be able to keep awake in the dream state. If the thoughts of the waking state are controlled, you can control the dream thoughts also.

Do not allow the mind to run into the sensual grooves. Fortify yourself by developing the intellect through enquiry of Brahman, reflection and contemplation. The intellect will serve the purpose of a strong fortress. It will not allow the sense-impressions to be lodged in the causal body. It will not allow the impressions of the causal body to come out. It will serve a double purpose.

Brahman alone is really existent. Jiva, world are false. Kill this illusory egoism. The world is unreal when compared to Brahman. It is a solid reality for a passionate worldly man, even as dreams are real to the childish. The world does not exist for a Jnani or a Mukta.

You dream that you are a king. You enjoy various kinds of royal pleasures. As soon as you wake up, everything vanishes. But you do not feel for the loss, because you know that the dream creatures are all false. When you know the real Tattva, Brahman, the waking consciousness also will become quite false like a dream. Even in the waking consciousness if you are well established in the idea that the world is a false illusion, you will not get any pain.

Wake up and realise, my child!


Great scientists, the inventors of many marvellous things, mighty emperors who have done stupendous work, inspired poets, wonderful artists, many Rishis, Yogins, have come and gone. You are all extremely anxious to know what has become of them. Do they still exist ? What is there at the other side of death ? Have they become non-existent or have they dwindled into an airy nothing ? Such questions do arise spontaneously in the hearts of all. The same question arises today as it arose thousands of years ago. No one can stop it, because it is inseparably connected with our nature.

The idea of death has ever been the strongest motive power of religion and religious life. Death stirs a man to search for immortality.

Man is afraid of death. Man does not want to die. He wants to live forever. This is the starting point of philosophy. Philosophy enquires and investigates. It boldly proclaims, "O man, do not be afraid of death. There is an immortal abode. That is Brahman. That is your own Atman that dwells in the chambers of your heart. Purify your heart and meditate on this pure, immortal, changeless Self. You will attain immortality".

You cannot die, because you were never born. You are immortal Atman. Birth and death are two false scenes in the unreal drama of Maya. They concern the physical sheath only, a false product formed by the combination of the five elements. The ideas of birth and death are mere superstition.

Every soul is a circle. The circumference of this circle is nowhere, but its centre is in the body. Death means the change of this centre from body to body. Why, then, should you be afraid of death ?

What is Death?
Death is separation of the soul from the physical body. The entrance of a soul into a body is called birth. The soul's departure from the body is called death. A body is dead if the soul is absent.

Death is a door opening from one aspect of life to another. Death is cessation of bodily or physical activity, of physical and organic function, of physical consciousness. Death is a transition from one state of being to another, a change of the from of consciousness to another plane, astral or mental. Ice becomes water, and water becomes steam, vapour, and invisible gas, according to the degree of vibration. So is life in the physical, astral, and mental planes.

Death does not end your personality and self-consciousness. It merely opens the door to a higher form of life. Death is only the gateway to a fuller life.

Death is not extinction of personality. It is merely the cessation of an important individuality. It is only a change of form. Life flows on to achieve its conquest of the universe, life flows on till it merges in the Eternal.

Death is not the end of life. It is an aspect of life. It is a natural incident in the course of life. It is necessary for your evolution.

Death is not the opposite of life. It is only a phase of life. Life flows on ceaselessly. The fruit perishes, but the seed is full of life. The seed dies, but a huge tree grows out of the seed. The tree perishes, but it becomes coal which has a rich life. Water disappears, but it becomes the invisible steam which contains the seed of a new life. The stone disappears, but it becomes lime which is full of new life. The physical sheath only is thrown, but life persists.

Dissolution of the body is no more than sleep. Just as man sleeps and wakes up, so is death and birth. Death is like sleep. Birth is like waking up. Death brings promotion to new, better life. A man of discrimination and wisdom is not afraid of death. He knows that death is the gate of life. Death, to him, is no longer a skeleton bearing a sword to cut the thread of life, but rather an angel who has a golden key to unlock for him the door to a far wider, fuller, and happier existence.

Birth follows death, just as waking follows sleep. You will again resume the work that was left off by you in your previous life. Therefore do not be afraid of death.

Birth and death are jugglery of Maya. He who is born begins to die. He who dies begins to live. Life is death and death is life. Birth and death are merely doors of entry and exit on the stage of this world.

Just as you move from one house to another house, the soul passes from one body to another to gain experience. Just as a man, casting off worn out garments, takes new ones, so the dweller in this body, casting off worn-out bodies, enters into others which are new.

O man, do not be afraid of death at all. Death is Maya's illusory phenomenon. Death is dissolution of the elements. Thou art immortal, Amara (immortal).

Signs of Death
It is very difficult to find out the real signs of death. Stoppage of the heart-beat, stoppage of the pulse or breathing are not the actual signs of death. Stoppage of the heart-beat, pulse, and respiration, cadaveric rigidity of the limbs, clammy sweat on the body, absence of warmth in the body, are the popular signs of death. The doctor tries to find out whether there is corneal reflex in the eye. He tries to bend the leg. These signs are not the real signs of death, because there have been several cases where there were cessation of breathing and beating of heart, and yet, the persons revived after some time.

Hatha Yogins (adept in hatha yoga exercises) are put in a box and buried underneath the earth for forty days. Afterwards they are taken out, and they revive. Respiration may stop for a long time. In cases of suspended animation, respiration stops for two days. Many cases have been recorded. The heart-beat may stop for many hours, even for days, and then it can be recovered. Hence it is extremely difficult to say what would be the actual or the final sign of death. The decomposition and putrefaction of the body may be the only final sign of death.

No one should be buried immediately after death, before decomposition sets in. One may think that a man is dead, whereas he may be in a state of trance, catalepsy, ecstasy, or Samadhi. Trance, Samadhi, catalepsy, and ecstasy are states which resemble death. The outward signs are similar.

Persons suffering from heart-failure should not be buried immediately, as breathing might commence once again after a particular time. Burial should take place only after the body begins to putrefy.

Soul's Journey After Death
When a man dies, he carries with him the permanent Linga-Sarira which is made up of the five Jnana-Indriyas, the five Karma-Indriyas, the five Pranas, mind, Buddhi, Chitta, and Ahankara, and the changing Karmasraya which determines the formation of next life.

The soul contracts and withdraws all the senses. The physical senses become dimmer and dimmer, just as the flame in a lamp becomes dimmer and dimmer when the oil gets exhausted. The subtle body or Sukshma-Sarira passes out of the physical body like a mist.

The soul, accompanied by the chief vital air or Mukhya Prana, the sense-organs, and the mind, and taking with itself Avidya, good and evil actions, and the impressions left by its previous existences, leaves its former body and obtains a new body. When it passes from one body to another, it is enveloped by the subtle parts of the elements which are the seeds of the new body.

The soul has a vision of the body to come. Just as a leech or a caterpillar takes hold of one object, the soul visualizes the body to come before it leaves the present body.

Dissolution of the Elements at Death
The physical body is composed of the five great elements or the Mahabhutas, viz., earth, water, fire, air, and ether. The Devas or gods are endowed with a divine or luminous body. The fire Tattva is predominant in them. In man, the earth Tattva is preponderating. In the case of aquatic animals, the element of water predominates. In the case of birds, the element of air predominates.

Hardness of the body is due to the portion of earth; the fluidity is due to the portion of water; the warmth that you feel in the body is due to fire; moving to and fro and such other activities are due to air; space is due to Akasa or ether. Jivatma or the individual soul is different from the five elements.

After death, these elements are dissolved. They reach their primordial sources in the inexhaustible storehouse of nature. The element of earth goes and joins its store of Prithvi Tattva. The other elements also go back to their sources.

The respective functions of the organs are blended with the presiding gods. Sight goes to the sun from where it had its power of vision, speech goes to fire, life-breath to air, the ear into quarters, the body into the earth, hairs into annual herbs, hairs of the head into trees, and blood and semen into waters.

Death Pangs
There is no pain at the time of death. Ignorant people have created much horror and terror regarding death. In the Garuda Purana and the Atma Purana, it is described that the pangs of death are tantamount to the pain caused by the stings of 72,000 scorpions. This is mentioned only to induce fear in the hearers and readers, and force them to work for Moksha. In spiritualism, there is unanimous report from the enlightened spirits that there is not even a bit of pain during death. They clearly describe their experiences at death and state that they are relieved of a great burden by the dropping of this physical body, and that they enjoy perfect composure at the time of separation from this physical body. Maya creates vain fear in the onlookers by inducing convulsive twitchings in the body. That is her nature and habit. Do not be afraid of death pangs. You are immortal, Amara.

Prayer for the Dead
The departed souls remain in a state of swoon or unconsciousness immediately after death. They cannot feel that they are detached from their previous gross material bodies. Prayers, Kirtan, and good thoughts from relatives and friends can give real solace to the departed souls. They create a potent vibration and an awakening in their stupefied condition of mind, and bring back their veiled consciousness. The souls begin to realize that they are not really in their gross material bodies.

Then they endeavour to cross the borderland, a narrow river of ether, which is known as Vaitarani to the Hindus, as Chinnat-bridge to the Parsis, and Sirat to the Muslims.

When the departed souls are sinking peacefully and when they are ready to have a glorious awakening in heaven, they are roused into vivid remembrance of the mundane life by weeping and wailing of their friends and relatives. The thoughts of the mourning people produce similar vibrations in their minds and bring about acute pain and discomfort. And the uncontrolled grief of their relatives drags them down from their astral planes. This may seriously retard them on their way to the heaven-world. This produces serious injury to them.

Last Thought-Forms
The last thought of a man governs his future destiny. It determines his future birth.

The last thought of a licentious man will be the thought of his woman. The last thought of an inveterate drunkard will be that of his peg of liquor. The last thought of a greedy money-lender will be that of his money. The last thought of a fighting soldier will be that of shooting his enemy. The last thought of a mother who is intensely attached to her only son will be that of her son only.

Raja Bharata nursed a deer out of mercy and became attached to it. His last thought was the thought of that deer. Hence he had to take the birth of a deer.

Man always desires to die a peaceful death with his mind fixed on God. That is the reason why Gita, Bhagavata, Vishnu Sahasranama, and other holy scriptures are recited at the death-bed of the sick man; even though he may not be able to speak, he may hear what is read out to him. This will help the sick man in forgetting the body-idea or his ailment and think of the Lord. When his memory fails, these sacred sentences of the scriptures will remind him of his real nature.

It is very difficult to keep up God-consciousness at the time of death when diseases torment the body, when consciousness fades away. But, for that man who has disciplined his mind all throughout his life and who has tried to fix the mind on the Lord through constant practice, the last thought will be thought of God only. It cannot come by a stray practice in a day or two, in a week or month. It is a life-long endeavour and struggle.

Interval Between Death and Rebirth
People wish to know the exact period that elapses between the time of leaving the body and being born again. Does the soul take a new body in one year ? Does it take ten years ? How long does one live upon the subtler planes before reappearing on the earth plane ? These are some of the questions.

In main, two factors decide this issue, viz., the nature of the individual Karma, and the last impression before death. It may vary from hundreds of years to a few months even. Those that work out some of their Karmas in other planes in subtler regions take a considerable time before entering a fresh body. The interval is very long, for a year of the earth-period passes of as a single day on the celestial plane. There is an instance cited where, seeing the amazement and admiration of foreign tourists at the imposing ruins of certain monuments, a saint present in the vicinity remarked that some of these very people had fashioned the monuments centuries ago.

Sometimes, a very sensual individual with strong cravings, or one with intense attachment, is reborn quickly. Also in cases where life is cut short by a violent death, or by a sudden unexpected accident, the Jiva resumes the thread very soon. Usually, in such cases of immediate rebirth, the Jiva often remembers many of the events of its previous life. It recognizes its former relatives and friends, and identifies old home and familiar objects.

This sometimes leads to very queer developments. There are some instances where a murdered person, being reborn, has declared the manner of his death and revealed the identity of the killer. A reincarnated individual had, at times, unerringly gone and uncovered the treasure that had been hidden away by him.

In the vast majority, this memory is not present. This is really a blessing conferred by the all-wise Being. Such recollection would greatly complicate our present lives. The past is veiled to you until such time as it is good and helpful to remember it. When you attain perfection and reach the end of a cycle, all will be revealed and you will see a whole rosary of lives threaded upon the one personality.

But such cases of immediate rebirth are not common. Generally, for an average individual, the interval between death and rebirth happens to be a considerable period measured in terms of earth-time. Persons who have done much good Karma spend a great deal of time on the Daivic plane before being born again. Great souls, spiritually advanced persons, wait for a long time before reincarnating.

In the intervening period between death and new birth, the departed spirit, especially if the person is physically and spiritually developed, can frequently materialize upon the earth plane if necessity arises. It takes human form, talks, and even make itself felt by tangible touch. It is possible to photograph such an apparition.

Such materialized form is different from the astral body which is not visible to normal vision. It is an exact counterpart, a subtle 'double' to the physical body, and forms the vehicle in which the departed soul journeys after death.

Astral consciousness, however cannot guarantee you freedom from birth and death. Occultism and spiritualism can never give ultimate emancipation; nor can they reveal the full secret of the beyond. Spiritual realization and knowledge of the Self alone will reveal the mystery of life and death and the life beyond death.

Be Not Afraid of Death
Death is painful to worldly man. A Yogi or a sage, or even a real aspirant, has no fear of death. A desireless man never weeps when he dies. A full-blown Jnani never dies. His Prana never departs.

Your highest duty is to prepare for a peaceful life hereafter. Conquer the fear of death. Conquest of the fear of death, conquest of death, is the highest utility of all spiritual Sadhana. The one aim of all Yoga Sadhana is to meet death fearlessly and joyfully.

Man is afraid of death. In old age, he tries to think of God. If he remembers God even from his boyhood, he will reap a rich spiritual harvest in old age.

Bhishma had death at his command. Savitri brought back Satyavan, her husband, to life through her power of chastity. Markandeya conquered death through worship of Lord Siva. You also can conquer death through devotion, knowledge, and the power of Brahmacharya.

Introduction
Chuang Tze, a Chinese philosopher, once dreamt that he was a butterfly. On waking, he said to himself, "Now, am I a man dreaming that I am a butterfly, or am I a butterfly that thinks, ‘I am Chuang?’"

When you dream, you see the events of fifty years within an hour. You actually feel that fifty years have passed. Which is correct, the time of one hour of waking consciousness or the fifty years of dreaming consciousness? Both are correct.

Pascal is right when he asserts that if the same dream comes to us every night, we should be just as much occupied by it as by the things which we see every day. To quote his words: "If an artisan were certain that he would dream every night for fully twelve hours that he was a king, I believe that he would be just as happy as a king who dreams every night for twelve hours that he is an artisan".

A Change in Consciousness
Just as a large fish swims alternately to both the banks of the river, the right and the left one, or to the eastern and the western, so glides the Purusha between both the boundaries, the boundary of dream and the boundary of the waking state.

Consciousness changes. This change in consciousness brings about either the waking or the dream experience. The objects do not change in themselves. There is only change in the mind.

Waking, Dreaming and Deep Sleep
Dream is called Sandhya or the intermediate state, because it is midway between waking and the deep sleep state, between Jagrat and Sushupti.

The dream world is separate from the waking one. Deep sleep is separate from both the dream world and the world in the waking state.

The sun is the source and the temporary resting place of its rays. The rays emanate from the sun and spread in all directions at the time of sunrise. They enter into the sun at sunset, lose themselves there, and come out again at the next sunrise. Even so, the states of wakefulness and dream come out from the state of deep sleep and re-enter it and lose themselves there to follow the same course again.

As soon as you wake up, the dream becomes unreal. The waking state does not exist in the dream. Both the dream and the waking states are not present in deep sleep. Deep sleep is not present in the dream and the waking states. Therefore, all the three states are unreal. They are caused by the three qualities, Sattva, Rajas and Tamas. Brahman or the Absolute is the silent witness of the three states. It transcends the three qualities also. It is pure bliss and pure consciousness. It is Existence Absolute.

The Mind in Dream
The mind is ever rotating like a wheel. It plays with the five senses of perception and gets experiences in the waking state. It receives the different sense impressions through the avenue of the senses. The impressions are lodged in the causal body. Ajnana or the causal body is like a black sheet of cloth. In it are contained the Samskaras of all your previous births.

During dream, the mind creates various kinds of objects out of the impressions produced by the experience of the waking state. Sometimes, the experiences of the previous births which are lodged in the causal body flash out during the dreaming state.

The mind is the perceiver and the mind itself is the perceived in dream. The dream objects are not independent of the mind. They have no separate existence apart from the mind. So long as the dream lasts, the dream creatures will remain, just as the milkman remains so long as the milking goes on. Whereas, in the Jagrat state, the object exists independent of the mind. The objects of the waking experiences are common to us all, while those of dreams are the property of the dreamer.

The mind creates the bee, flower, mountain, horses, rivers, etc., in the dream, without the help of any external means. It creates various curious, fantastic mixtures. You may witness in the dream that your living father is dead, that you are flying in the air. You may see in the dream a lion with the head of an elephant, a cow with the head of a dog. The desires that are not satisfied during the waking state are gratified in dream. Dream is a mysterious phenomenon. It is more interesting than the waking state.

Desires are the rulers of all experiences in waking and also in dream. Waking is physical functioning of desires; dream is mental functioning of desires. The senses are moved by desires in waking; the mind is moved by desires in dreaming. In waking, the mind experiences through the senses; in dream, the mind alone experiences.

The dreamer creates the world of his own in the dreaming state. Mind alone works independently in this state. The senses are withdrawn into the mind. The senses are at rest. The mind is then like a furious elephant let loose.

Just as a man withdraws himself from the outside world, closes the door and windows of his room, and works within the room, so also, the mind withdraws itself from the outside world and plays in the dream world with the Vasanas and Samskaras and enjoys objects made up of fine or subtle ideas which are the products of desire. Dream is a mere play of the mind only.

Just as pictures are painted on the canvas, so also, the impressions of the waking state are painted on the canvas mind. The pictures on the canvas seem to possess various dimensions though it is all on a plane surface only. Even so, though the dream-experiences are really states of the mind only, the experiencer experiences internality and externality in the dream world. He feels, while dreaming, that the dream world is quite real.

The dreamer only appears to be doing things in dream, but actually there is no activity. The scripture, in describing our doings in dreams, qualifies them by an ‘as it were’: "As it were rejoicing together with women, or laughing as it were’...". Ordinary people also describe dreams in the same manner: "I ascended, as it were, the summit of a mountain .... I saw a tree, as it were". Therefore, the dreaming self has no activity in dreams.

Dreams and Karma
The dreamer is not affected by any result whatever of the good and the evil he sees in the dream state. Because in dream the dreamer does not actually do what is holy or evil, he is not chained by either; for, good or evil actions and their consequences are not imputed to the mere spectator of them.

No one regards himself a sinner on account of the sins committed in dreams. Nor do people who have heard of them condemn or shun the person on that account. Hence he is not touched by them.

Dreams Are Created by the Lord
The dream objects are created by the Lord as fruition of the minor works of the Jiva. In order to reward the soul for very minor Karmas, the Lord creates the dreams.

The Universal Soul is the creator of dreams and not the individual soul; for, had it been possible for the latter to shape his dreams, he would never have dreamt a bad dream, but would always have dreamt only propitious ones.

Prophetic Dreams
Many riddles of life are solved through hints from dreams. Through dreams one may receive proper advice for self-correction. Through dreams one may know how to act in a particular situation. Saints and sages appear in dreams during times of difficulty and point out the way.

Works of genius like poems, etc., are found in dreams. Remedies for diseases are prescribed in dreams. Some times the exact object seen in dreams is seen afterwards in the waking state.

Dreams, an Index of One’s Moral Condition
Dreams, though of a strange and illusory nature, are a good index of the high or the low spiritual and moral condition of the dreamer. He who has a pure heart and an untainted character will never get impure dreams. An aspirant who is ever meditating will dream of his Sadhana and his object of meditation. He will do worship of the Lord and recite His Name and Mantra even in dream through the force of Samskara. Brahma-jnanins or sages have no dreams.

Dreams reveal to us that aspect of our nature which transcends rational knowledge. That in the most rational and moral man there is an aspect of his being which is absurd and immoral, one knows only through the study of one’s dreams. All our pride of rationality and morality melts into nothingness as soon as we reflect upon our dreams.

Subjective Reality, Objective Reality and Absolute Reality
Waking experience is a perception. Dream experience is a memory. As perception precedes memory, waking precedes dream. Whereas waking experience is independent of dream experience and its effects, dream experience is the result of the impressions of waking experience.

There is a kind of order or system in the waking experiences, at least more than in dream. Every day, the same persons and things become the objects of waking experience. There is a definite remembrance of previous day’s experiences and of survival and continuity of personality in waking experience. The consciousness of this continuity, regularity and unity is absent in dream. Dream is not well ordered, while waking is comparatively systematic.

Dream is less real than waking, in as much as the direct contact with the external world of waking experience is absent in dream. Though there is an external world in dream also, its value is less than that of the world in waking. Though the form of the dream world agrees with that of the waking world, in quality, the dream world is lower than the waking world.

Space, time, motion and objects, with the distinction of subject and object, are common to both waking and dreaming. Even the reality they present at the time of their being experienced is of a similar nature. But, the difference lies in the degree of reality manifested by them. The Jiva feels that it is in a higher order of truth in waking than in dreaming.

That the waking world has relative reality does not prove that it is real in the absolute sense. From the standpoint of the highest reality, waking experience also is unreal. As dream is transcended in the state of waking, the world of waking too, is transcended in the state of Self-realisation.

Dream is apparent reality. Waking is relative reality. Turiya or Brahman is absolute reality.

Waking is the reality behind dream. Turiya is the reality behind waking.

From the point of view of Turiya, both waking and dreaming are unreal. But, waking, taken by itself in relation to dream experience, has greater reality than dream. To a certain extent, as Turiya is to waking, so waking is to dream.

Dream is no dream to the dreamer. Only by one who is awake, dream is known to be a dream. Similarly, waking appears to be real to one who is still in the waking state. Only to one who is in Turiya, waking is devoid of reality. Waking is Deerghasvapna, a long dream, as contrasted with the ordinary dream which is short.

There are degrees of reality in the experiences of the individual. The three main degrees are subjective, objective and absolute. Dream experience is subjective. Waking experience is objective. The realisation of Atman or Brahman is experience of the absolute reality. The individual is the subjective being in comparison with the objective world. The subject and the object have equal reality, though both these are negated in the Absolute.

Waking—A Long Dream
In both states, waking and dreaming, objects are perceived, are associated with the subject-object relationship. This is the similarity between the two. The only difference between the two states is that the objects in dream are perceived in the space within the body, whereas in the waking condition, they are seen in the space outside the body. The fact of their ‘being seen’ and their consequent illusoriness, are common to both states.

The perception of an object is unreal, because objects are creations of the mind. An object has got a particular form, because the mind believes it to be so. In fact, objects of both the dreaming and the waking states are unreal.

Anything that has got a form is unreal. Forms are special modes of cognition and perception. They are not ultimate. In waking, there are physical forms; in dreaming, there are mental forms. Anyhow, all are forms only, limited in space and time. A form lasts only so long as that particular mental condition lasts. When there is a different mental condition, the forms of experience also change. This is why the form of the world vanishes when Self-realisation is attained.

Dream relations are contradicted by waking relations. Waking relations are contradicted by superconsciousness, which is uncontradicted. Non-contradiction is the test of reality.

The unreal world appears as real, whereas it is in reality a long dream arisen in our mind. As in dream, so in the waking state, the objects seen are unsubstantial, though the two conditions differ by the one being internal and subtle, and the other external, gross and long. This world is nothing but a long dream.

When, at sixty years age, you take a retrospective view of your life in college, it is all a dream to you. Is it not so? The future also will turn out to be so.

The past is a dream. The future is a dream. The solid present is also a dream. The fact that in Self-realisation there is absolute cessation of phenomenal experience shows that all phenomena are unreal.

Objections Refuted
It may be said that objects in the waking state serve some definite purpose and those of dream do not serve a purpose. This argument is incorrect, because the objects used as means to some end or purpose in the waking state are contradicted in the dream state. A man in the waking state eats and drinks and appeases his hunger and is free from thirst. But, when he goes to sleep, he finds himself in dream again afflicted with hunger and thirst as if he has not taken food and drink for days together. And the contrary also happens and is found to be true. The utility and objective worth of things, etc., in waking are cancelled in the dream state, even as the conditions and experiences in dream are invalidated in waking. Objects act as means to ends only in a particular condition, and not in all conditions. Things are real only in their realms, and not always. That which is not always real is an appearance, is unreal; for, reality is everlasting. As the objects of the waking state do not work in dream, they are unreal. As the objects of the dream do not work in the waking state, they are unreal. Hence, everything is unreal.

It may be contended that objects of dream are queer, fantastic and unnatural. And hence, waking cannot be like dream. But the experiences in dream, however grotesque or abnormal, are not abnormal to the dreamer. They appear fantastic only in a different state, viz., in waking. One cannot say what is really fantastic, and what is normal and real. The mind gives values to objects, and its conception of normality and abnormality changes according to the state in which it is. The dreamer has his own conception of space, time and causation, even as the waking one has his own notions. One state is absurd when compared to the other. This shows that both states are illogical, and therefore, absurd from the highest standpoint.

It may be said that objects seen in waking are not mere mental imaginations, because the objects of waking experience are seen by other people also, whether or not one’s mind cognises them. But, it is seen in the dream state also, objects of experience are open to the perception of other people, though the people as well as the objects are all subjective imaginations.

It may be said that in waking we perceive through the sense-organs and not merely through ideas. But it is seen, that in dream also, we perceive through the sense-organs belonging to the dream state, which are not less real than those of the waking state. As dream is unreal, waking also must be unreal.

The Dreamless Atman
There is one pure Consciousness or Atman in all beings which is infinite, eternal, all-pervading, self-existent, self-luminous and self-contained; which is partless, timeless, spaceless, birthless and deathless. This is the real ‘I’. This ‘I’ never wakes, dreams or sleeps. It is always the seer or the silent witness of the three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping. It is the Turiya or the fourth state. It is the state that transcends the three states.

It is the false or relative ‘I’ called Ahankara or ego or Jiva that wakes up, dreams and sleeps. The waker, the dreamer and the sleeper are all changing personalities and unreal.

The real Self, the real ‘I’, never wakes up, dreams and sleeps. From the viewpoint of the absolute truth or Paramarthika Satta, no one wakes up, dreams and sleeps.

Wake Up and Realise
Learn to be the witness of your thoughts in the waking state. You can be conscious in the dream state that you are dreaming. You can alter, stop or create your own thoughts in the dream state independently. You will be able to keep awake in the dream state. If the thoughts of the waking state are controlled, you can control the dream thoughts also.

Do not allow the mind to run into the sensual grooves. Fortify yourself by developing the intellect through enquiry of Brahman, reflection and contemplation. The intellect will serve the purpose of a strong fortress. It will not allow the sense-impressions to be lodged in the causal body. It will not allow the impressions of the causal body to come out. It will serve a double purpose.

Brahman alone is really existent. Jiva, world are false. Kill this illusory egoism. The world is unreal when compared to Brahman. It is a solid reality for a passionate worldly man, even as dreams are real to the childish. The world does not exist for a Jnani or a Mukta.

You dream that you are a king. You enjoy various kinds of royal pleasures. As soon as you wake up, everything vanishes. But you do not feel for the loss, because you know that the dream creatures are all false. When you know the real Tattva, Brahman, the waking consciousness also will become quite false like a dream. Even in the waking consciousness if you are well established in the idea that the world is a false illusion, you will not get any pain.

Wake up and realise, my child!...

http://www.dlshq.org/messages/dream.htm#intro

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:apQ6LuOJi5I5oM:http://www.citizenu.org/uploaded_images/51321746.SadClown_sat-794795.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 05:07:00 AM
"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." ~Matthew 10:16

It is correct, when God comes in human form He is rejected and insulted by ingonrant people who are egoistic and full of jealosy, such people are like wolves. And GOd in human form is like sheep. Wolf always attack and want to eat the flesh of sheep by brutally killing it. Like wise when God in human form comes to this world and when His disciples preaches the knoweldge taught to them by God in human form; deffinetly there is will be oppossition from ordinary ignorant people who rebel the divine knowledge. Thus when approaching such ignorant people the disciple and God in human form should be careful enough to see their deservingness for the divine knoweldge, otherwise they will insult them.


Unless deservingness is not there do not preach anybody, because they will not understand the value of knoweldge and mock instead and insult. For example in bible we see that Jesus select some disciples to go to the streets and preach. He told if any body object not to receive the divine knowledge then do not preach them and do not enter their town. IN the judgement day such peoples fate will be miserable since they objected the preaching of God in human form and do not accepted it. Jesus even told that remove the dust of your feet against such people who reject God in human form and His preachings!

Thus God is impartial and He tries His level best to preach and uplift but hard hearted conventional orthodox people cannot digest the divine knowledge and repel against God in human form and His preaching. Jesus Himself told it in bible....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 05:13:35 AM
Why are we receiving lectures on transcendental meditation?

Meditation is not the means of receiving grace of God. Working for the mission of God without expecting anything in return is the means of getting grace from God. Yoga is the most prestigious field of spiritualism. People think about 6 wheels (Chakras) or lotus flowers present in the spinal card, which are not seen by the eyes. They are imaginary and so they carry some inner meaning. When you say a face as a moon, fools search for moon in that face. But, wise people see similarity in the face and moon. Similarly, wheels and lotus flowers should not be searched in the spinal card. Spinal card is the main nerve, representing mind, which is the base of love.

All these wheels or lotus flowers are the bonds of love in the various relatives like parents, wife or husband, children etc. They are compared to wheels or the revolving whirlpools in the ocean, which attract a swimmer and drown him. Similarly, these love wheels are compared to lotus flowers, since the lotus flowers attract the bee by sweet fragrance and bind it. Similarly, these love flowers attract any one and bind them. “Kundalini” is the mind which is the energy travelling as waves like a serpent, should cross all these love wheels connected to 7th lotus flower in the head called “Sahasrara”, which is Buddhi or intelligence that takes the decision, which is the firm love on God.

Bhagavat Gita is called as the main scripture of Yoga (Yoga-Sastra). Why there is not even single reference to these wheels or lotus flowers in anywhere in Gita or even in Upanishats? Since they are not real, they are not even mentioned. The author of the Gita was Krishna, who was called Master of Yoga (Yogeswara). Krishna also says that the real yoga was lost since long (Sa kaleneha mahata….). This means that in the beginning, Sages in India knew the real yoga and loved God only crossing all their family bonds. In due course of time only, this true yoga was lost. Why? The middle age Indians were unable to cross their family bonds and so failed to succeed in Yoga.

They wanted to cover their in ability by twisting the very concept of yoga. The family bonds were removed from the concept and only wheels or lotus flowers are left fixed. Now, they close the eyes and say that they have seen the lotus flowers or wheels, which are only imaginary. Now they cross these wheels by their imaginary “Kundalini” and say that they have succeeded in Yoga. These blind teachers are also not to be blamed, because they were trained like that by their blind teachers. This misinterpretation was done long time back and hence, even at the time of Krishna, He told that yoga was lost since a long time.

We cannot catch those original culprits, who were the top most twisting masters and so the present tradition also cannot be blamed. Only rectification is the way left over. Some say that they see light, which is only an imagination. After all, the mind is a form of energy and on its concentration imaginary light can be imagined. Instead of such a week light, you better see a strong light with your open eyes. What is the use of these imaginary lights and colours, without achieving the Lord through your love, which excels the various worldly, loves.

I pity the foreigners, who are trapped in this false imaginary line of yoga, who are wasting their precious lifetime and energy. In fact, they are the best to succeed in yoga, if the reality of the yoga is exposed. Their family bonds are very weak and their love towards God is real, which is proved by their huge sacrifice of money to God’s work. Money is the fruit of work and its sacrifice for God’s work is “Karma phala tyaga” as mentioned in Gita. Again, the middle age Indians twisted this word “Karma phala tyaga” as sacrifice of the fruit of the work like praying God instead of sacrifice of money.

The reason was that these Indians were unable to sacrifice money to God due to their strong love on their children. Foreigners ask their children to earn after certain age. Indians store money even for ten generations and still continue to store only. Since prayers, meditation and knowledge are very much diverted to God, India was blessed by God with good language, good mind and good knowledge.

Since foreigners are good in sacrifice, God blessed them with good wealth. Even Indian spiritual centres were strongly funded by foreigners only. Swami Vivekananda cried, “Why my India suffers with poverty in spite of so much spiritual knowledge?” Sacrifice of money (Karma phala tyaga) and sacrifice of work (karma Sanyasa) put together constitute the God’s service, which is the real Yoga (real proof of love) called “Karma yoga” in Gita. Foreigners are the best in this karma yoga and so they easily succeed in yoga. Throughout Gita, this karma yoga was explained as yoga and wheels or lotus flowers are not at all mentioned.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 05:15:02 AM

Law and order in God’s hands only

If some body beats you, – keep silent and do not even curse him.
You might have beaten him – in the previous birth and now
It is compensated with interest; – the case is now closed forever.
In this case you cannot expect God – to punish him at anytime.
Your long observation about him – will discourage you thoroughly.
However, if he has beaten you – without this back ground,
God will certainly punish him, – you will beat him with interest.
But the time gap is uncertain, – may be now or may be next birth.

The reason is that God punishes any body – only for transformation.
God might have punished him already – in some other angle,
Which is unknown to you and God is – waiting for the change in him.
If change is not observed – God will use the pending punishments.
Punishment due to you is somewhere – in the list of his cycle.
You are eager to punish him – just to pacify your revenge.
Your aim of punishment differs – from the aim of punishment by God.
If you realize the administration of God – or the cycle of deeds here,
You are not anxious to punish him, - law and order in God’s hands only.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 10, 2010, 06:34:19 AM

You might have beaten him – in the previous birth


Swami,  Why come on a Christian forum and preach what is erroneous - reincarnation.


Quote


you will beat him with interest.


The principle of violence and vengeance is alien to Christianity.

Why are you preaching it on a Christian forum?

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 06:41:57 AM

You might have beaten him – in the previous birth


Swami,  Why come on a Christian forum and preach what is erroneous - reincarnation.


Quote


you will beat him with interest.


The principle of violence and vengeance is alien to Christianity.

Why are you preaching it on a Christian forum?



Do not worry about re-incarnation, but worry about your precious time in this world, which should be used for identifying God in human form and serving Him without any expecation. Pleasing of God through service is the main aim of life.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 06:57:50 AM




The principle of violence and vengeance is alien to Christianity.

Why are you preaching it on a Christian forum?





When one throws fire on you if you throw fire against him in return, can your fire extinguish the opposite fire? The fire thrown by you cannot pacify the injuries caused by your enemy’s fire on your body. The injuries caused by your fire on the body of your enemy will increase the strength of your enmity with him. If you throw water against his fire, your water can extinguish the opposite fire. The water fallen on your enemy generates repentance in your enemy and the enmity ends forever. A scholar shows love as an answer to violence. An ignorant person shows anger as an answer to anger.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 06:59:32 AM


The principle of violence and vengeance is alien to Christianity.


Irish Hermit;


You have to live in this world according to the instructions of the Lord. Regarding your life in this world, the essence of His instruction is that, you should be ‘deceived’ by others and not deceive others, you should be ‘harmed by others but not harm anyone, you should not insult others, but you can be insulted by others, and you should be abused by others but not abuse others. One cannot attain God by doing penance even for centuries. But there is one easiest way to attain God.

When you are deceived by others or when you are harmed by others or when you are insulted by others or when you are abused by others, the Lord comes to your side. It means you have attained God. Therefore, you should thank the people who have deceived, or harmed or insulted or abused you.


 They have helped you in attaining God by the easiest way. Therefore you should not deceive or harm or insult or scold even such people in return. They might have passed on the punishment to you, for your sins on the will of God. In that case also, they have cleared your sins at an early stage without further interest on the punishment. Even in that way you should thank them.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 10, 2010, 07:05:05 AM
dattaswami,

Did you know that my respect for your opinions decreases every time you start a new thread? Something to think about...

The true God comes down in human form with true knowledge and His few true devotees accompany him. These few devotees belong to His inner most circles and constitute His family. In Satyaloka (True world), He is surrounded by millions of angels and sages, who will be hearing the true knowledge from His mouth. All of them are His followers and they constantly praise Him. After some time the Lord wants some rest and He comes down to the earth along with His family. On this earth nobody recognizes Him, nobody listens Him and nobody follows Him. It is just like a big officer disgusted with the large crowd in his office goes to some foreign place along with his family, where he is not identified.

The Lord emits the true knowledge on the earth and His own family members who are in the human form will only listen and follow Him. What is the use of that drama here? Already they were His followers. The aim of this drama is to inspire the people of this world so that at least one person on the earth can become His follower. Gita says the same (Kaschitmam..). The Lord is not fond of money or fame because He is the husband of the Goddess of wealth. He is not fond of the fame, because He was bored with the fame as millions of sages and angels praise Him. When the Lord comes as preacher, He is called Satguru.

The other human beings are called as only Gurus. These Gurus are fond of money and fame. They don’t know the true knowledge. Even if they know they will not preach it because not a single person will turn to them. Infact even in the case of Satguru, same is the case but His followers who accompanied Him are turning to Him. Therefore the Guru preaches false knowledge following the psychology of ignorant people. To please the ignorant person, you must preach him strictly following his psychology. Even if you say something in addition, that should not contradict his basic psychology. For Ex: - when you preach a blind person, he will be happy if you say that there is always darkness in this world.

He will be happy since he always experiences the darkness. In addition, if you say that there is Sun on the sky, you must say that the Sun is also black. He will be happy to this additional Sun because the Sun is also black. Suppose you say that there is light in the world, he will not agree since it contradicts his experience of darkness. Suppose you establish the existence of light and the existence of illuminating Sun through powerful logic, he will become emotional and violent because your concept not only contradicts his experience, but also could not be defeated by his counter logic. It is a double blow on him. Kauravas did not concede the preaching of Lord Krishna for the same reason.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Father Peter on November 10, 2010, 07:55:39 AM
Can something be done about having thread after thread filled with evangelical eastern religions?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: podkarpatska on November 10, 2010, 09:32:27 AM
Can something be done about having thread after thread filled with evangelical eastern religions?

Agreed.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on November 10, 2010, 11:12:29 AM
Dattaspammi, dattaspammi
How I wish you'd meet my mommy.
She, like you, is full-on barmy.
But at least she's not a Commie.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on November 10, 2010, 11:45:08 AM
I actually know some real blind people and they actually do NOT wish the rest of the world was in darkness.

So (as Alfred Persson says), "Analogy fail!"  :)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on November 10, 2010, 12:11:59 PM
It's not the content that bothers me so much as the incoherence.

It might actually be interesting to have a real discussion.  Hinduism is, after all, one of the major world religions, yet I personally know little about it.

But dattaspammi isn't really helping me learn.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on November 10, 2010, 12:15:08 PM
I think you're right, the incoherence is worse than almost anything.   :-\
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on November 10, 2010, 12:17:03 PM
Dattaspammi, dattaspammi
How I wish you'd meet my mommy.
She, like you, is full-on barmy.
But at least she's not a Commie.

 :laugh:

Everybody, dance!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Father Peter on November 10, 2010, 12:17:07 PM
Then perhaps there should be one thread where such dialogue takes place?

I would imagine that most of us do not want to be told authoritatively what the Hindu religion teaches in regard to any and every one of the Orthodox threads which are started here?

I don't sense that there is a comparative religion discussion going on, rather a one-sided evangelism on behalf of Hinduism, or this posters understanding of Hinduism, which seems to include the belief that he is an incarnation of the Hindu god?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 10, 2010, 12:22:54 PM
Swami, dattaswami, dattaswami,
My dear old swami.
You teach the world to be,
In full-on heresy, H-E-R-E-S-Y

O, swami,
how we beg you,
how we pray you,
Just stop the spamming.

The folks here want to read you no more,
Unless you stop that Vedic bore.


(Sung to the tune of "Swanee" by Al Jolson.)

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: genesisone on November 10, 2010, 12:25:18 PM
Then perhaps there should be one thread where such dialogue takes place?

I would imagine that most of us do not want to be told authoritatively what the Hindu religion teaches in regard to any and every one of the Orthodox threads which are started here?

I don't sense that there is a comparative religion discussion going on, rather a one-sided evangelism on behalf of Hinduism, or this posters understanding of Hinduism, which seems to include the belief that he is an incarnation of the Hindu god?
Agreed.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Papist on November 10, 2010, 12:29:55 PM
Does anyone know what dattaswami is trying to accomplish here?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Schultz on November 10, 2010, 12:31:00 PM


Friends,

Let it be known that the moderation staff is discussing this issue.  In the meantime, I ask for your patience as we figure out how to deal with this matter.

Thank you.

-Schultz.
Orthodox-Catholic Discussion moderator
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on November 10, 2010, 12:35:19 PM
Does anyone know what dattaswami is trying to accomplish here?

It's a trap, get an axe!

(http://www.terrortube.com/gallery/files/1/8/army_of_darkness_witch.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 10, 2010, 12:40:30 PM
In the meantime, let's eat!

(http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/1559606_340_1116081430036-spam.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on November 10, 2010, 12:48:56 PM
Does anyone know what dattaswami is trying to accomplish here?

Yes, I've figured it out!  It's actually a very clever form of Christian apologetics.

He's trying to make Hinduism (which is actually an ancient and venerable faith in its own right) look SO annoying and incoherent that potential seekers will throw up their hands in frustration, and move on to Christianity.

Brilliant!  ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on November 10, 2010, 01:35:52 PM


Friends,

Let it be known that the moderation staff is discussing this issue.  In the meantime, I ask for your patience as we figure out how to deal with this matter.

Thank you.

-Schultz.
Orthodox-Catholic Discussion moderator

wow, I must admit that I'm very happy to hear this.  perhapse someone should direct the OP to a Hindu forum?  or blogspot?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Fabio Leite on November 10, 2010, 01:56:49 PM
In the meantime, let's eat!

(http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/1559606_340_1116081430036-spam.jpg)

The original sketch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOlLjBwBMUE
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: ialmisry on November 10, 2010, 02:55:56 PM
In the meantime, let's eat!

(http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/1559606_340_1116081430036-spam.jpg)
never touch the stuff.

Btw:
Quote
Welcome to the SPAM Haiku Archive!
http://www.mit.edu/people/jync/spam/
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: SolEX01 on November 10, 2010, 03:07:20 PM
Why are we receiving lectures on transcendental meditation?
Since foreigners are good in sacrifice, God blessed them with good wealth.

Yeah, so folks like the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh can "use the foreigners good wealth" to drive his Rolls Royce down the middle of mud soaked followers who dance and sing.  I was 11 years old when I saw the news story and I'll never forget the absurdity of what I saw.

What about the Bhagwan's ex-disciples trying to kill US Attorneys (http://articles.latimes.com/1990-09-15/news/mn-198_1_late-guru)?  Free love, free thought, free crime ... not so fast.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: HabteSelassie on November 10, 2010, 03:55:14 PM


 
   Thus, the Christianity and Hinduism have the same structure of philosophy and can be treated as the two branches of the same tree. Only the language, culture, food habits etc., differ in these two religions. But the internal spiritual essence is one and the same. Only these two religions accept the concept of Human Incarnation and treat the human form as God. I do not understand why there is a quarrel between Hindus and Christians when such a wonderful homogeneity exists. The History also showed the mutual love and respect in these two religions as you can see the honour of Jesus in India and the honour of Hindu saints like Swami Vivekananda in Christian countries.

 No other two religions have such fusion as Christianity and Hinduism. When such homogenous religions quarrel with each other, not to speak of quarrels between heterogeneous religions. Never a Church in India was attacked and never a temple in America was attacked. The Christianity is spreading in India very easily. Similarly, Hinduism is also spreading very fast in Christian countries. Therefore, I wish the fusion of these two religions in the beginning to stand as an example for other religions also to fuse with each other. This will be the first step for the Universal Spirituality.


Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Indeed, I believe that Hinduism and other Far East religions have a delightful and edifying theological language and concepts which would benefit the spiritual understanding of many Christians if they would familiarize themselves with the cultural cross-pollenation..

however many of your posts are far to deep and dense for people to embrace and understand.  Perhaps you are being counterproductive, and in the process inadvertently reveling in the negative attention? Many Bible Thumpers are this way, they do not read the Bible to actually be heard, in fact quite the opposite, they only read the scriptures to find folks who are NOT listening to have an "ah ha ah ha" fingerpointing and  back patting session in their own hearts and minds.

You have a lot to offer this community, I suggest to slow it down, focus in one specific thing! I love Hindu literature and discussions, but honestly this thread is to long and way to much ground to cover.  Pick any single thing and discuss it would be far more fruitful and well received..
By the way, I am sure you are well read in the works of His Grace Yogananda, who is truly a saint in the fields of bridging the cultural and theological gap between East and West, Christian and Hindu.  Post some of his stuff here and I'm sure more folks might be interested, as you have to  make the connections more obvious, less esoteric.


stay blessed,
habte selassie
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on November 10, 2010, 04:54:03 PM
5 star thread! Would read again! (not srs)  :police:
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 01:13:49 AM


 
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Indeed, I believe that Hinduism and other Far East religions have a delightful and edifying theological ................Post some of his stuff here and I'm sure more folks might be interested, as you have to  make the connections more obvious, less esoteric.


stay blessed,
habte selassie

Thank you very much for your reply.


The one point i was trying to introduce here is that There is only one God and He comes in human form in every human generation to preach the divine knowledge for the upliftment of the souls. Jesus is impartial and He coems in every generation. If you understand this concept you will appreciate Jesus preaching more especially if you read St. John's Gospel. The concept of 'Human Incarnation' is very very important and relevant today.

The human incarnation concept is like this:

God is unimaginable and invisible. This entire creation is His dream or feeling. He enters into His own dream (this world) by coming in human form for preaching the divine knowledge to uplift us. By this one can see, touch, co-live with unimaginable God.

For this purpose, God select a most deserving devotee existing on the earth known as 'Son of God' and enters into Him. Thus Human incarnation results. Thus the Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which Father and Son of God is present in the same human body. The son of GOD component has fully surrendered to the Father, and Father preaches wonderful knowledge through the mouth of Son of God. When Son of God is alive in this world, He is Father Himself, because Father is always present in Son of God.

With this back ground if you read St. Johns Gospel you will appreaciate it more.

What is the necessity of stressing this point now here?

There is a necessity. God has to be there midest us. Only a living God can speak to us directly so that we can hear Him now here on the earth. Only a living God can accept our practical sacrifice directly, thus our love to God is proved practically and it also proves our detachment from the world and attachment to God also.

The Same Jesus comes again and again so that we can practically serve in His mission and prove our love to God practically. Only a living Jesus in human form alone can preach us and clarify all our doubts completely.

This is the essence of the Human Incarnation.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on November 11, 2010, 01:38:22 AM
What in the Sam Hill is this thread even about?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Asteriktos on November 11, 2010, 01:51:49 AM
What in the Sam Hill is this thread even about?

(http://westwood.wikispaces.com/file/view/spam-big.jpg/31059659/spam-big.jpg)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: theistgal on November 11, 2010, 01:52:09 AM
dattaspammi, Christianity does not teach that a man already alive on earth *became* the Son of God, but that the Son of God - who already existed - became a man, by being born of a woman.

Two different and incompatible beliefs.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Luke on November 11, 2010, 02:37:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 03:12:32 AM
dattaspammi, Christianity does not teach that a man already alive on earth *became* the Son of God, but that the Son of God - who already existed - became a man, by being born of a woman.

Two different and incompatible beliefs.
Even though GOd is beyond birth and death(no birth no death), the human being into which He enters for His coming to this world has birth and death like an ordinary human being.


This doesnot mean that God is taken birth or God is died when that Son of God takes birth and death.

Even if we consider ourselves, when we die, our body is only dead, the soul in us goes into the upper world. When we take birth our soul which existed in the upperworld has entered into a human body. Thus when an ordinary human being is also taken a fresh body and removed its body while birth and death respectively.

Thus Son of GOD is already existing before and after His birth and death and God enters into Him when He is alive in this world in human body.

Human incarnation is a combination of God and Son of God......
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: ialmisry on November 11, 2010, 03:21:44 AM
dattaspammi, Christianity does not teach that a man already alive on earth *became* the Son of God, but that the Son of God - who already existed - became a man, by being born of a woman.

Two different and incompatible beliefs.
Even though GOd is beyond birth and death(no birth no death), the human being into which He enters for His coming to this world has birth and death like an ordinary human being.


This doesnot mean that God is taken birth or God is died when that Son of God takes birth and death.

Even if we consider ourselves, when we die, our body is only dead, the soul in us goes into the upper world. When we take birth our soul which existed in the upperworld has entered into a human body. Thus when an ordinary human being is also taken a fresh body and removed its body while birth and death respectively.

Thus Son of GOD is already existing before and after His birth and death and God enters into Him when He is alive in this world in human body.

Human incarnation is a combination of God and Son of God......
That's the difference between the fact of the Incarnation and the belief of reincarnation.

Btw, dattaswami, maybe you want to put in your two cents (or two rupees) on this thread:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31113.0.html
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Ortho_cat on November 11, 2010, 03:28:30 AM
Wow I don't know ialmisry, we seem to have confined the swammi pretty well to the free-for-all sub-forum, are you sure you want to let him out free to roam around the faith issues forum? That will all but certainly lead to a tranquilizer dart for him, or worse! (or perhaps that was your plan all along... ;) )
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 03:35:17 AM
dattaspammi, Christianity does not teach that a man already alive on earth *became* the Son of God, but that the Son of God - who already existed - became a man, by being born of a woman.

Two different and incompatible beliefs.

For ordinary ignorant people, miracle is the sign of divinity. Your belief to Jesus increased when you hear that He has taken birth without the union of parents. A realised soul identify the divinity of human incarnation through the knoweldge He preaches.

There is a lot of difference between ignorant person (majority of the people in this world are ignorant, here ignorant does not mean that ignorance of world, poeple may be well educated, well employed etc, but they are ignorant of GOd and His divine knoweldge) and realised soul.

The super power is exhibited to show the divinity. Hanuman (a great devotee of God) is born to Anjani, who is the wife of Kesari. The story says that Vayu (air) carried on the sperm of Lord Shiva to Anjani and then Hanuman was born. Some other story says that Vayu was attracted to Anjani and Hanuman was born to both of them. Here Shiva is invisible. Vayu (air) is inert.

 Anjani has given birth to Hanuman without any contact with Kesari which shows the invisible divine interaction. This shows that Hanuman is the divine incarnation. The super natural part in this story has such purpose only. If you realize the divinity of Hanuman, there is no need of this story. You can say that Hanuman is born to Anjani and Kesari and here Hanuman means only the body and not God in it.

 For the generation of body no super power is required because the body can be generated in a natural way itself. It is foolish to use super power when the natural alternative is possible. The super power enters only when all the natural alternatives are closed.

Similarly, Jesus is born to Mary without the interaction of her engaged bridegroom. This story reveals the divinity of Jesus. But if you have realized the divinity of Jesus through His knowledge, such story is not necessary. To draw the attention of ignorant people who cannot realize the divinity of Hanuman or Jesus, such story is created. To create the human body for God, super power is not necessary for realized souls. For realized souls, these stories are not at all required. You can straightly say that the body of Hanuman or Jesus was generated by the union of the parents.

 In the case of Jesus, you need not criticize Mary who was not married. The engagement itself is marriage as per the ethical scripture of Manu (Vacha Datta..). These stories are certainly required for the ignorant people who cannot recognize Hanuman or Jesus otherwise. Therefore, miracles are required only for the ignorant people and not for the realized souls.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 03:39:36 AM

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31113.0.html

You have not understood my reply.

What is the meaning of human rationality? Does it mean

   What ever the human being says, rational (Reasonable) or irrational (Reasonless), should not be accepted or
   Whatever reasonably said by the human being should not be accepted.

If you take the first case, since you are a human being, what ever you say should not be accepted, whether you say reasonable or reasonless. If it is the second case, you should be accepted because whatever, you said is reasonless. Then you should be a mad person because only mad people speak reasonless. If you say that you are not mad person, then you should have spoken reasonable, in which case you should not be accepted, since, a reasonable saying of the human being should not be accepted according to the above version (b).

You say that God should not be introduced into a human being. Then you are not a true Christian because Christians believe that God is introduced into the human being just like the blood of father is introduced into the son. Christian believes that Jesus is the son of the Godfather. If you say that Jesus is only messenger of God and not the Son of God, then you are not a Christian and you belong to Islam. Islam says that a messenger is not Son of God but he is only a servant of God. At this point only Christianity separated from Islam.

 Originally both Islam and Christianity were one religion only. Islam treated Jesus as the messenger like Mohammed. Christianity is separated from Islam because they treated Jesus, closely related to God like a son to his Father. Infact Christians of higher order believe Jesus directly as God because Jesus told the same "I and my Father are one and the same". This saying proves clearly that God and the human incarnation are one and the same. Therefore, being a true Christian, you should accept that God enters the human being or even temporarily becomes the human being. In both the cases, God either enters or pervades all over the human being. In the case of human incarnation, if you deny both these possibilities, then your Christianity becomes Islam and you are not at all the Christian because you are denying the very fundamental of the Christianity.

In Hinduism all the three concepts are present

1.   Advaita of Sankara says that the Lord and the human being become one and the same in the case of human incarnation. Example is Rama. In this case God pervades all over the human body.

2.   Visishta Advaita of Ramanuja says that the Lord is present in the heart of human being as in the case of human incarnation, for example Hanuman, who tore His heart and showed Rama in that

3.   Dwaita of Madhvacharya says that the Lord is separate in the heaven and sends His servant to this earth as a messenger. For example, Balarama is the Adi Sesha who is the servant of Lord Vishnu in heaven and is the human incarnation.

Thus, Hinduism contains all the three concepts. The first two concepts are called Christianity and the third concept is called Islam. The Mahayana branch of Buddhism worships Buddha in the form of statutes as God or the devotee in whose heart God is present. Infact according to Hinduism Buddha is directly the Lord since he is treated as one of the ten human incarnations of the Lord. Just like Christianity arose from Islam, Buddhism arose from Hinduism. The Heenayana branch of Buddhism treats Buddha as a preacher of divine knowledge and treats Him as an ordinary human being. This concept is the concept of Islam or the concept of Madhvacharya in Hinduism. Thus, Hinduism is a mini model of the entire universal religions. The Science represents atheism. Even this atheism is represented in Hinduism by the sub-religion of Charvaka (Nastika Matam). All the sub-religions of Hinduism are the religions in the world. Whatever is in the world, it is present in Hinduism.

Universal spirituality brings the unity of all religions in the world and thus it brings the unity in all the sub-religions in Hinduism also. Rationality is the essence of the science. The scientist will laugh if you speak any thing irrational (Reasonless). Even in the small matters of this world, we analyze with reason and logic before we follow it and we say that we should not be emotional in taking any decision. Then how much logical we should be in such great spiritual effort, if you want to attain real success?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 11, 2010, 03:41:20 AM
Could someone please ban this blasphemer??  ???
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 03:43:18 AM
Could someone please ban this blasphemer??  ???

I invited all of you for a good discussion. Rationality is the essence of the science. The scientist will laugh if you speak any thing irrational (Reasonless). Even in the small matters of this world, we analyze with reason and logic before we follow it and we say that we should not be emotional in taking any decision. Then think how much logical we should be in such a great spiritual effort, if you want to attain real success? In Christianity Jesus is called as Emmanuel, which means that God comes down from heaven to live with us.

Only a human form can live with us and guide us through knowledge. The Jewish priests at that time also did not believe in Jesus as God or Son of God or even as messenger of the God. They did not like the God to be introduced in human being as you say now. They believed only the dead messengers and not Jesus, who was the then messenger. The same logic applies today also. You believe the messenger who does not exist now. You do not believe the messenger who now exists before your eyes. Jesus told that He will come again. It means that the same human incarnation will come again and the same story repeats. The same Jesus is present today and the same people who were blind with egoism and jealousy are present again today. Therefore, I say, the history repeats. 

As Jesus was insulted, then, today also the egoistic and jealous people will insult Jesus. Jesus will come in every human generation to give His direct contact. Otherwise, God Jesus becomes partial, because He gave direct contact to one generation only and not to the other generations. He clarified the doubts of one generation only through His direct voice and now He allows the immature human devotees to answer the doubts directly in the other human generations. He provided the fortune of touching His feet in one generation only and other generations are deprived of that fortune. This makes Jesus totally partial and you say that God is impartial.

All the religions also say the same. How can you justify this important statement that God is impartial?

Therefore, we have accepted that God is coming in human form like Jesus in every human generation. In order to avoid answering this question, you are saying that reasoning should be avoided. When reasoning is discarded, you need not answer any question. Whatever you say that must be the truth. You are rigid without any logic and this is the blind conservatism. This cancer is present in every religion and humanity is always is divided by this cancer. You are opposing the unity of humanity and want to disturb the world peace. God will not tolerate you, and you will be thrown in to permanent hell for misleading the ignorant people.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 04:04:27 AM
Could someone please ban this blasphemer??  ???

You are critising me for introducing divine knowledge here.God does not require any service or any pleasure from anybody or anything because He is already omnipotent and Infinite Ocean of bliss.  Devotees are trying to reach Him to get bliss from Him and transfer their sins to Him.  God is not gaining anything from the devotee except the suffering of his sins.  Hence, God is not interested in this Nivrutti, which is a business ending in sure loss and no gain! God does not like to take the sins of devotees often, except very few exceptional devotees, because such transfer of sins is a disturbance to the administration of the cycle of deeds also as per the divine law. 

But today devotees are thinking that God is trying for Nivrutti to get some devotees for His service and some are thinking that the post of God cannot be continued unless He gets certain number of liberated souls through Nivrutti like certain number of members of assembly needed for the ruling party to continue in the Government!

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 11, 2010, 04:07:19 AM
Struck a nerve?

You're not God--not even close.  Get over yourself.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 04:12:45 AM
Struck a nerve?

You're not God--not even close.  Get over yourself.

When I said that God is in my human body, who is delivering the spiritual knowledge, my reference is my devotees who strongly believe me in spite of my several objections. My statements vary according to the level of the devotees. Some times I say that I am devotee or a messenger to ordinary people. I say that God is in me to the devotees who have partial faith in me. I say that the God pervaded all over my body and became one with me to strong devotees who have reached the climax of the faith. Jesus also told like this to different levels of devotees. He claimed himself as messenger of God to lower devotees. To the middle level He claimed that He is son of the God. To the top devotees He claimed that He and His father are one and the same. You should not transfer one statement from one level to the other level.

In my case, for your information, I say every one that I am just a devotee of God. But the devotees forced me with their opinions and finally I responded according to their firmness of faith. Even there I tried my level best to distort their faith through several tests. Therefore, you cannot generalise my statements to all the humanity. In fact you cannot generalise the statements of Jesus also to the entire humanity because all the human beings have not believed Jesus. Only some believed and His statements relate to such fraction of devotees only.

Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: ialmisry on November 11, 2010, 04:13:06 AM

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31113.0.html

You have not understood my reply.

No. I understood.

Someone have that tranquilizer gun?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: ialmisry on November 11, 2010, 04:16:09 AM
Struck a nerve?

You're not God--not even close.  Get over yourself.

When I said that God is in my human body, who is delivering the spiritual knowledge, my reference is my devotees who strongly believe me in spite of my several objections. My statements vary according to the level of the devotees. Some times I say that I am devotee or a messenger to ordinary people. I say that God is in me to the devotees who have partial faith in me. I say that the God pervaded all over my body and became one with me to strong devotees who have reached the climax of the faith. Jesus also told like this to different levels of devotees. He claimed himself as messenger of God to lower devotees. To the middle level He claimed that He is son of the God. To the top devotees He claimed that He and His father are one and the same. You should not transfer one statement from one level to the other level.

In my case, for your information, I say every one that I am just a devotee of God. But the devotees forced me with their opinions and finally I responded according to their firmness of faith. Even there I tried my level best to distort their faith through several tests. Therefore, you cannot generalise my statements to all the humanity. In fact you cannot generalise the statements of Jesus also to the entire humanity because all the human beings have not believed Jesus. Only some believed and His statements relate to such fraction of devotees only.


you MUST meet Alfred Persson.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=tags;id=5784
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 11, 2010, 04:31:47 AM
Struck a nerve?

You're not God--not even close.  Get over yourself.

When I said that God is in my human body, who is delivering the spiritual knowledge, my reference is my devotees who strongly believe me in spite of my several objections. My statements vary according to the level of the devotees. Some times I say that I am devotee or a messenger to ordinary people. I say that God is in me to the devotees who have partial faith in me. I say that the God pervaded all over my body and became one with me to strong devotees who have reached the climax of the faith. Jesus also told like this to different levels of devotees. He claimed himself as messenger of God to lower devotees. To the middle level He claimed that He is son of the God. To the top devotees He claimed that He and His father are one and the same. You should not transfer one statement from one level to the other level.

In my case, for your information, I say every one that I am just a devotee of God. But the devotees forced me with their opinions and finally I responded according to their firmness of faith. Even there I tried my level best to distort their faith through several tests. Therefore, you cannot generalise my statements to all the humanity. In fact you cannot generalise the statements of Jesus also to the entire humanity because all the human beings have not believed Jesus. Only some believed and His statements relate to such fraction of devotees only.


Charlie Manson's devotees said he was Jesus Christ.  So, what's your point?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 11, 2010, 04:36:08 AM

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31113.0.html

You have not understood my reply.

No. I understood.

Someone have that tranquilizer gun?
I'll loan you mine.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 04:37:47 AM
you MUST meet Alfred Persson.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=tags;id=5784

God is impartial to come in human form – In every human generation.
God said in Gita that He will come down – Whenever there is necessity.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 04:40:05 AM

Charlie Manson's devotees said he was Jesus Christ.  So, what's your point?

Jesus is identified from His divine knowledge alone. Jesus cannot speak non-sense if He is Jesus!

“Buddha did not speak even about God and therefore, there is no question of the topic of the human incarnation.  Therefore, Buddha was safe.  Mohammed denied the concept of human incarnation and declared Himself as only the Messenger of God.  Any body can be become Messenger and therefore, Mohammed was also safe.  Lord Krishna emphasized on the concept of Human Incarnation through out Gita, but Krishna told that He is the Human Incarnation only to Arjuna and not to any other person. Therefore, Krishna was also safe.

 Jesus told that He is the Human Incarnation by telling that He and His Father are one and the same.  He told this to many people and this news spread everywhere. This statement is in Bible and Bible is His message given to the public.   For this statement He was brutally killed.  Now, if I state the same in the present time, crucification may not be there due to improved legal atmosphere, but people will laugh at Me and will say that I am mad and should be admitted into a mental hospital.  Of course this does not mean that I have accepted and stated that I am the human incarnation. 

Assuming that I am the Human Incarnation I am telling this.  Let this not be taken as My declaration.  This only means no human incarnation will declare himself as God after the crucification of Jesus.  Since then God is terribly afraid of such declaration.   Therefore, even if I am the real human incarnation I will not declare it.  If I am not the human incarnation I should not declare it.  Therefore, in any case I cannot declare this. 
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 11, 2010, 04:40:46 AM
you MUST meet Alfred Persson.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=tags;id=5784

God is impartial to come in human form – In every human generation.
God said in Gita that He will come down – Whenever there is necessity.

Thank you for sharing.  ::)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 04:45:45 AM
Quote from: Agia Marina link=topic=30787.msg492647#msg492647 Charlie Manson's [quote
devotees said he was Jesus Christ.  So, what's your point?


You can identify the real Jesus by the following:

  The identification of human incarnation is the most complicated subject because of several hurdles in it.  The first hurdle is that people are generally affected by the egoism and jealousy.  A human being never likes to accept another human form as God.  Even if some human being conquers his egoism and jealousy and accepts it, it is only temporary.  It is impossible to smash the egoism and jealousy.  You can only reduce them temporarily.  

What are these hurdles?  As I told the first hurdle is your own egoism and jealousy.  You may say that you have conquered them and therefore you are investigating for the present human form of Lord.  Though you have conquered, your victory is only temporary.  They are the two sleeping snakes in your heart.  They will rise at any time and bite you.  Therefore, you must try for a permanent conquer and thereby to destroy them forever.  Then only the first hurdle is removed.  Assuming that you have destroyed them, before you reach Him still there are several hurdles.  The priests of the temples, the preachers of ethics and puranas and Scholars who preach the philosophy are the hurdles.

  They will not allow you to proceed, who wash your brain on the way.  They are against the present human incarnation.   If you reach the present human incarnation, they will loose income and fame from the devotees.  They are earning money and fame by singing the glory of the past human incarnations.  In fact, while Jesus was alive these people were His main enemies and the reason is very very clear. People started following Jesus who opposed the collection of money in the church.  These people killed Jesus who was obstructing their income and fame.

 Even after the death of Jesus these people misinterpreted the statement of Jesus that He will come again.  Jesus meant that He would come again and again in every human generation to give the same divine opportunity to every generation because He was the impartial God.  If this meaning is accepted their income and fame will be obstructed in every generation.  Therefore, these people misinterpreted the meaning of this statement by saying that Jesus will come only at the end of the world.  When the world is destroyed even if Jesus comes, there will no problem.  By this interpretation they have   cleared   their   way of   business till the end of the world.  
The followers   are   also   congenial for     such misinterpretation because of their inherent egoism and jealousy to accept the existing human incarnation.  Therefore, there was a co-operation from both the sides.  Assume that you have passed this hurdle also.  The next hurdle is false human incarnations that will trap you for the same reason of income and fame.  Of course these false incarnations are based on the will of God only.  He tests your scriptural knowledge by which only you have to identify the real human incarnation.

  They are just like the wrong answers present in the multiple-choice question.  The same examiner who gives the right answer creates the wrong answers also to test the power of your discrimination.  The discrimination results only if you digest scriptural knowledge with perfect logical analysis.  Then only you can eliminate the fraud incarnations like wrong answers.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 11, 2010, 05:18:08 AM
So, to low level devotees, you claim to be a messenger.  To high level devotees, you claim to be the incarnation of God.  And, of course, if we don't believe, we're egotistical and jealous.

You've got a teensy weensy Messiah Complex, dontcha?

Seek help.  You need it.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 05:28:05 AM
So, to low level devotees, you claim to be a messenger.  To high level devotees, you claim to be the incarnation of God.  And, of course, if we don't believe, we're egotistical and jealous.

You've got a teensy weensy Messiah Complex, dontcha?

Seek help.  You need it.

Jesus told to Peter that do not reveal that I am God in human form to all, because others cannot digest it and will mock Me and Insult Me!

Who is the true incarnation of God, how to identify Him?

The artificial diamonds glitter with seven colours just like the original diamond.  But, the refractive index of the original diamond is very high and a scientist can only identify it.  The false incarnations also preach knowledge. But the power of the knowledge of the real incarnation is very very high.  Your self aided by your intellectual logical faculty (Buddhi) can only be convinced and get cleared from all the doubts only by such special divine knowledge (Prajnanam….).  One person who was very close to Me posed a big problem through a question.  He told Me “I have analysed your divine knowledge after hearing the knowledge of several divine preachers.  My inner self is completely convinced by your knowledge only. 

This means you are the human incarnation.  I doubt , you have given such procedure to Me by which the result falls on yourself only”.  Then I replied “I have given you all the procedure as given by the sacred scripture, Veda.  I have also given equal position to your logical analysis before accepting that procedure.  The scripture along with logical analysis gives the correct result.  If the result falls on Me, what shall I do?  Shall I change the Scripture?  Shall I say that there should be no logical analysis?  To avoid Myself as the result, shall I say that the person who does not convince your inner self shall be the human incarnation?  You can put your logic and if there is a logical question on the analysis of the scripture, I can answer that.  If you are convinced by all means, I cannot help it”.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: recent convert on November 11, 2010, 08:11:00 AM
I know that with a few minutes I steal for break time to post at work per day that I have little time to respond to your preaching. What I do know though is that I guess you can posit yourself in an exalted caste poised for enlightenment while drones to karma perhaps even have the fate of animal rebirth or hell realms; wow, & when the known created order may cease to exist, I guess you perceive, but cannot determine, other realities in which consciousness goes on? NO THANKS! But thanks be to Jesus Christ OUR (yours & everyone's) Lord & savior who died for our sins & saves us in the day of resurrection to everlasting life! Call upon Him, Read Romans 10:9-13 & all the New testament.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 11, 2010, 08:23:19 AM
I know that with a few minutes I steal for break time to post at work per day that I have little time to respond to your preaching. What I do know though is that I guess you can posit yourself in an exalted caste poised for enlightenment while drones to karma perhaps even have the fate of animal rebirth or hell realms; wow, & when the known created order may cease to exist, I guess you perceive, but cannot determine, other realities in which consciousness goes on? NO THANKS! But thanks be to Jesus Christ OUR (yours & everyone's) Lord & savior who died for our sins & saves us in the day of resurrection to everlasting life! Call upon Him, Read Romans 10:9-13 & all the New testament.

If you love Jesus since He died for your sins then your devotion is worst.If you love Jesus and work for Him without any reason then it is the greatest. Generally devotees love GOd based on business. It is the worst. They treat GOD as a wishfulfilling tree!

The disciples of Jesus really love and practically worked for Him without any expecation of reward. Such people are real devotees. St. Peter oppossed the crucification of Jesus. he could not bear the news that His God is going to be crucified. That much he loved Jesus, he was a true devotee of Jesus.

But now Poeple want to use Jesus and get rid of their sins.

For such people the following verse is a lesson to increase their level:

Luke—14:26 to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.


You cannot be my disciple, unless you love me more than you love your father and mother, your wife and children, and your brothers and sisters. You cannot come with me unless you love me more than you love your own life. You cannot be my disciple unless you carry your own cross and come with me
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Fabio Leite on November 11, 2010, 08:32:12 AM
I know that with a few minutes I steal for break time to post at work per day that I have little time to respond to your preaching. What I do know though is that I guess you can posit yourself in an exalted caste poised for enlightenment while drones to karma perhaps even have the fate of animal rebirth or hell realms; wow, & when the known created order may cease to exist, I guess you perceive, but cannot determine, other realities in which consciousness goes on? NO THANKS! But thanks be to Jesus Christ OUR (yours & everyone's) Lord & savior who died for our sins & saves us in the day of resurrection to everlasting life! Call upon Him, Read Romans 10:9-13 & all the New testament.



If you love Jesus since He died for your sins then your devotion is worst.If you love Jesus and work for Him without any reason then it is the greatest. Generally devotees love GOd based on business. It is the worst. They treat GOD as a wishfulfilling tree!

The disciples of Jesus really love and practically worked for Him without any expecation of reward. Such people are real devotees. St. Peter oppossed the crucification of Jesus. he could not bear the news that His God is going to be crucified. That much he loved Jesus, he was a true devotee of Jesus.

But now Poeple want to use Jesus and get rid of their sins.

For such people the following verse is a lesson to increase their level:

Luke—14:26 to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.


You cannot be my disciple, unless you love me more than you love your father and mother, your wife and children, and your brothers and sisters. You cannot come with me unless you love me more than you love your own life. You cannot be my disciple unless you carry your own cross and come with me

And Jesus immediately revealed who was inspiring Peter to deny the cross: Satan himself. Mr. Venu Gopala, it is the same Satan that is your Lord Datta. Repent, confess, be baptized and be truly free.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: recent convert on November 11, 2010, 10:06:17 AM
I know that with a few minutes I steal for break time to post at work per day that I have little time to respond to your preaching. What I do know though is that I guess you can posit yourself in an exalted caste poised for enlightenment while drones to karma perhaps even have the fate of animal rebirth or hell realms; wow, & when the known created order may cease to exist, I guess you perceive, but cannot determine, other realities in which consciousness goes on? NO THANKS! But thanks be to Jesus Christ OUR (yours & everyone's) Lord & savior who died for our sins & saves us in the day of resurrection to everlasting life! Call upon Him, Read Romans 10:9-13 & all the New testament.

If you love Jesus since He died for your sins then your devotion is worst.If you love Jesus and work for Him without any reason then it is the greatest. Generally devotees love GOd based on business. It is the worst. They treat GOD as a wishfulfilling tree!

The disciples of Jesus really love and practically worked for Him without any expecation of reward. Such people are real devotees. St. Peter oppossed the crucification of Jesus. he could not bear the news that His God is going to be crucified. That much he loved Jesus, he was a true devotee of Jesus.

But now Poeple want to use Jesus and get rid of their sins.

For such people the following verse is a lesson to increase their level:

Luke—14:26 to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.


You cannot be my disciple, unless you love me more than you love your father and mother, your wife and children, and your brothers and sisters. You cannot come with me unless you love me more than you love your own life. You cannot be my disciple unless you carry your own cross and come with me
I do not think you ultimately understand the great commission or perhaps Orthodox Christianity since you seem to see us like certain sects of Protestantism (& this may be fully understandable from where you see Christianity) but it is not just about the individual. If we are not able evangelize person to person, then we must at least pray for others salvation (pray the Lord of the harvest to send laborers etc.. Matthew 9:36-38), we must fast & give alms for the good of others & not assume where God will place them salvifically since heaven & hell are not a zero sum option to us. We know where our salvation lies but do not assume it as individual entitlement nor assume god will deny it to others despite varying beliefs they may hold, virtues along the Beatitudes can be shared by all but without Christ it is tenuous.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on November 11, 2010, 10:21:32 AM
People are still trying to argue with this guy?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: podkarpatska on November 11, 2010, 10:23:17 AM
This is taking a whole lot of bandwidth! Maybe we should stop throwing red meat on the floor so to speak.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: recent convert on November 11, 2010, 10:24:03 AM
People are still trying to argue with this guy?
I came across this thread quickly & did not immediately realize how vast it was.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Jetavan on November 11, 2010, 10:38:45 AM
People are still trying to argue with this guy?
I came across this thread quickly & did not immediately realize how vast it was.
This thread spans universes!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Iconodule on November 11, 2010, 10:49:38 AM
I posted this before, but I just can't stop laughing at this image:

(http://www.universal-spirituality.org/images/collage-home-page.gif)

It seems ripe for parody.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Fabio Leite on November 11, 2010, 11:16:50 AM
Introduce him to Alfred. We can create a thread for their meeting, call the press and name the experiment as LSC - Large Spammers Collider.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: podkarpatska on November 11, 2010, 11:18:14 AM
Introduce him to Alfred. We can create a thread for their meeting, call the press and name the experiment as LSC - Large Spammers Collider.

lol
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Rufus on November 11, 2010, 07:29:53 PM
People are still trying to argue with this guy?
I came across this thread quickly & did not immediately realize how vast it was.
This thread spans universes!

No, it SPAMS universes!!  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on November 11, 2010, 07:39:38 PM
Introduce him to Alfred. We can create a thread for their meeting, call the press and name the experiment as LSC - Large Spammers Collider.

 :-\

I think that may have a serious effect on the fabric of space and time...
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 01:25:12 AM
And Jesus immediately revealed who was inspiring Peter to deny the cross: Satan himself. Mr. Venu Gopala, it is the same Satan that is your Lord Datta. Repent, confess, be baptized and be truly free.

Yes, Jesus immediately rebuked Peter. Peter's love towards Jesus was so much that he could not bear the news that his God is going to be crucified. That much was his love on Him. Not like present devotees false love on Jesus. Today people want to get rid of their sins using Jesus pain.

Jesus death was programmed to relieve the sins of HIs followers who loved Him and worked for Him. Thus rebuking of Peter by Jesus, shows Jesus love on Peter since Jesus is going to take the sins of Peter also on the cross.

Thus Peter was an eligible devotee of Jesus since he never wished Jesus to be crucified for his own sins. Due to this eligibility Jesus really underwent crucification for his sins also.

Thus present followers of christ want to use Jesus as their means for happiness and they are the worst! Jesus love only His people who really love Him. They are called 'His Poeple' since their approach to Jesus is not based on business.

Now present Christianity has fallen down because of this business mentality. NOw Jesus want to uplift Christianity to its original glory.

Hence Jesus has come down now to uplift all christians through His divine knowledge.

YOUR LOVE TO JESUS SHOULD NOT ASPRE ANYTHING IN RETURN FROM HIM. THAT IS THE TRUE LOVE.

A real devotee only loves God others expect reward from Him
   The Lord behaves as a real father towards the souls of Gana (Gana means a group of souls, who have become very close to the Lord by their unimaginable devotion) because these souls have real devotion to the Lord as their real father.  The other ordinary souls treat the Lord as adopted father. The adopted children love the father only for getting his property. Even if they serve him, the service is done with the ultimate aim of getting his property. The real children serve the father even though the father is poor without a single paisa (a penny). Their devotion is real.
The ordinary souls love and serve the Lord only for getting some benefit from the Lord in return. Some like protection in this world by solving their problems here. Some others like to have protection after the death. All these are one and the same, since they aspire some fruit in return. Real love is always pure without aspiration for any fruit.

The devotee serving the Lord practically by recognizing Him in human form here alone becomes the member of the Gana. Those souls worshipping Lord theoretically without practical sacrifice and service or those serving practically the idols and photos cannot enter Gana. The service rendered to idols is either received by themselves or the priests but not the Lord. Of course, the Lord is pleased if you can identify a real deserving devotee and serve him.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 01:35:31 AM
.....................38), we must fast & give alms for the good of others & not assume where God will place them salvifically since heaven & hell are not a zero sum option to us. We know where our salvation lies but do not assume it as individual entitlement nor assume god will deny it to others despite varying beliefs they may hold, virtues along the Beatitudes can be shared by all but without Christ it is tenuous.

Service to God in human form is the ultimate aim of life. Social service is not ultimate aim, serving God is the ultimate aim.

The good works will lead you to heaven temporarily.  The bad works will lead you to hell temporarily till you are transformed at least to a large extent.  You may enter even the permanent liquid fire or hell for your endless sin, where you have to stay till you are completely transformed.

 The devotion (practical service without aspiration of any fruit in return) will lead you to the abode of God.  If your devotion is limited to the energetic forms of the upper world or the past human incarnations, you have to return back from the abode of the God (Abrahma Bhuvanat..Gita).  If your devotion is limited to your contemporary human incarnation, you will reach the abode of God forever (Yat Gatva na nivartante…Gita).  Of course, you will be coming to the earth in human form along with the God in human form to assist Him in His mission so that you are in the permanent association of God. 
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 01:40:19 AM
I posted this before, but I just can't stop laughing at this image:

(http://www.universal-spirituality.org/images/collage-home-page.gif)

It seems ripe for parody.

OK, i have to answer this....

When the Universal Spirituality was started as a Mission, My devotees suggested using these photos. I agreed based on one concept, i.e., when the same face is present in all the pictures it would give a psychological impression that the same God appeared in different forms. The face is the real identity of a person. Unfortunately, the pictures of various deities and incarnations were only the imaginary drawings of artists. But, they included different faces in these imaginary diagrams.

This will give an unconscious impression that the deities and incarnations are quite different and the idea of one God does not become strong. I have super imposed My face on the faces of deities and incarnations for whom the real photos were not present. Don’t you think that a real face is better than the imaginary face? My face and the imaginary faces on the photos are constituted by five elements only and there is no difference. I did not agree to super impose My face on the face of Shri Shirdi Sai Baba, because His real photo exists. For this concept of one God, this single face helps. This single real face need not be mine only. In fact you can also super impose your face in the faces of these deities and incarnations to explain that concept. It is only just a pictorial model. I will appreciate equally for two merits. 1) The face is real and not imaginary and truth is better than false imagination. 2) The face is single and this point does not exist in the imaginary faces.

In the spiritual field the only two impurities, which are the two layers that cover our two eyes are egoism and jealousy. Nobody is exceptional in these two impurities. Sadhana is only the eye operation to remove these two layers from our two eyes. Then only one can accept the existence of God and finally accept the existence of God in Human incarnation. When two eyes are completely covered by these two layers, one does not accept even in the existence of God. If the two layers are partially operated, the human being accepts the existence of God but not the human incarnation. When these two layers are completely removed, the devotee recognizes the human incarnation like Hanuman recognizing Rama. Because of these two layers many people did not recognize the human incarnations.

Some recognized and respected but did not worship. A few recognized and also worshipped. Sometimes the human incarnation was also killed due to the intensity of these two layers as in the case of Lord Jesus. Lord Mohammed also had to fight with people constantly because He tried to unite the various sub-religions in Islam. Sankara was killed by black magic because He condemned all the sub-religions and united them. Swami Dayananda tried to bring out the real heart of Vedas and was killed by food poisoning. Therefore, we must carefully watch the various effects of these two layers present within us before we analyze the object. The subjective analysis is very important before the objective analysis. Sankara told that unless the mind is purified from these impurities (Chitta Suddhi), recognition of God and recognition of Human Incarnation finally (Jnana Yoga) is not possible.

I have answered not only your question but also the root of your question. Previously the super imposition of face might not have been done due to the absence of photography and computer graphics. However, when Hanuman did not agree Krishna as Rama, Krishna did the same computer graphics by His divine power and super imposed the face of Rama on His face. You may not believe if I say that the same face of Lord Krishna was decorated by the dress of the face of Rama. Due to change in the dress the face appears different. You will find this fact in My photos also. Actually, it is the same face but appears different due to different external dress. Thus the human body is only the external dress and the single actor present in all these roles is the same Lord. Hanuman could not recognize Krishna as Rama due to this external dress only.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 12, 2010, 01:48:20 AM
I posted this before, but I just can't stop laughing at this image:

(http://www.universal-spirituality.org/images/collage-home-page.gif)

It seems ripe for parody.
Ripe for parody if it wasn't so sad.  This guy actually believes his own hype.   ::)
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 01:51:21 AM
I posted this before, but I just can't stop laughing at this image:

(http://www.universal-spirituality.org/images/collage-home-page.gif)

It seems ripe for parody.
Ripe for parody if it wasn't so sad.  This guy actually believes his own hype.   ::)

I have given the explanation behind this picture.... it seems you have not read or not understood it!!!!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 01:52:12 AM
I posted this before, but I just can't stop laughing at this image:

(http://www.universal-spirituality.org/images/collage-home-page.gif)

It seems ripe for parody.
Ripe for parody if it wasn't so sad.  This guy actually believes his own hype.   ::)

I am not for fame here....!!!

I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this. To accept the human incarnation itself creates the seed of egoism and jealousy. If the human form of God becomes famous while alive, the seed of egoism and jealousy will grow like a huge tree even in the heart of the closest devotee. Priests accepted the past human prophets. But to accept Jesus as Prophet in live form, jealousy entered as seed.

 Jesus was drawing crowds by His divine knowledge and the growing fame of Jesus developed the jealousy more and more, which lead to His crucification. Even His closest devotee betrayed Him due to jealousy and egoism. God is not fond of fame because He is bored with the fame in the upper world. Only human beings are fond of fame. God enjoys defame, which is not available in the upper world. Crucification was defame and the Lord enjoyed it well here.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: SolEX01 on November 12, 2010, 01:53:14 AM
I posted this before, but I just can't stop laughing at this image:

It seems ripe for parody.

OK, i have to answer this....

I'm curious to know... Do you prefer driving a Rolls Royce (http://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/) or a Bentley (http://www.bentleymotors.com/) or some other expensive luxury supercar (like Maybach)?  If I had $300K, the Continental Supersports would be my car of choice although I would also go for the Mulsanne. 
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 01:59:54 AM
I posted this before, but I just can't stop laughing at this image:

It seems ripe for parody.

OK, i have to answer this....

I'm curious to know... Do you prefer driving a Rolls Royce (http://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/) or a Bentley (http://www.bentleymotors.com/) or some other expensive luxury supercar (like Maybach)?  If I had $300K, the Continental Supersports would be my car of choice although I would also go for the Mulsanne. 

Your reply is irrelavant and out of context!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: SolEX01 on November 12, 2010, 02:03:10 AM
I posted this before, but I just can't stop laughing at this image:

It seems ripe for parody.

OK, i have to answer this....

I'm curious to know... Do you prefer driving a Rolls Royce (http://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/) or a Bentley (http://www.bentleymotors.com/) or some other expensive luxury supercar (like Maybach)?  If I had $300K, the Continental Supersports would be my car of choice although I would also go for the Mulsanne. 

Your reply is irrelavant and out of context!

Just like your proselytizing on this board: irrelevant and out of context.   >:(
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: biro on November 12, 2010, 02:11:08 AM
Quote
I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit.

You know what tsunamis do, don't you?  ??? Destroy everything in their path?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsunami

http://www.tsunami.noaa.gov/


Instead, a much more helpful thing may be this:

http://www.malankaraorthodoxchurch.in/

I hope you can find a church near you. There are Orthodox Christians in India, who can help you learn about the faith.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 02:28:10 AM
Quote
I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit.

You know what tsunamis do, don't you?  ??? Destroy everything in their path?



I hope you can find a church near you. There are Orthodox Christians in India, who can help you learn about the faith.

The knowledge is the identity mark of God. The knoweldge will come from me (God present in Me is the source of divine knowledge) like Tsunami, and destroy all your ignorance and improve love on God.
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 02:49:46 AM

I hope you can find a church near you. There are Orthodox Christians in India, who can help you learn about the faith.

I have read the bible perhaps more than even you read.... you need not refer me to anybody.....I can read bible and understand it being in anyother religion....

Why to convert ones own religion...There is only one God and He has come in many huamn forms in various parts of the world to preach essentially the same knoweldge according to the circumstance and level of the people around each region. God is the divine knowledge....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 12, 2010, 02:59:10 AM
dattaswami, if you're really God, why do you not know how to speak and write English properly?  
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: bogdan on November 12, 2010, 03:47:42 AM
It seems ripe for parody.

Indeed.  :angel:
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Agia Marina on November 12, 2010, 04:02:25 AM
Oh, that's good.  ;D
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 04:16:32 AM
It seems ripe for parody.

Indeed.  :angel:

Do not mock any body....

Never criticize any one in the world.  If you do not like to praise somebody, keep silent.  If you scold somebody and suppose God is hidden in that person, it will lead to immediate punishment.  Worship of God and insulting God will have immediate results in this world because both are powerful (Atyutkataih Papapunyaih……).  The help and insult to the colleague souls will have results in the upper world in heaven and hell.  But the service and insult to God in human form and devotees will have immediate results here itself.  
 Generally it is very difficult to identify God in human form who will try to hide Himself by looking like an ordinary person or some times looking like even a negative person.  God in human form acts according to the role taken on the stage of the world.  The role is according to the divine program drawn by God Himself.  The role generally does not contain the supernatural behavior, which will create problems of free mixing of God with the souls.  The role consists of mainly normal behavior and sometimes subnormal behavior to test the devotees or to drive away the undeserving devotees who will try to exploit God.  In such case there is every possibility of misunderstanding God as a normal human being or some times as a bad human being.

If you neglect God assuming Him as a normal human being, there is nothing wrong in it and you will not be in loss even though you may not have the benefit. But if you insult Him assuming a bad fellow, that is the greatest sin and will have immediate negative effect.  Since, we cannot trace out God easily, it is better not to criticize even a bad fellow.  Leave him to his fate.   Who are you to criticize anybody?  You have lot of bad points shown by your bulky thumb, when you point out others with your lean finger.  The constitution of God running the divine cycle of deeds will take care of everything in the world.  Why do you unnecessarily take the risk of insulting the hidden God? 


Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 04:22:38 AM
It seems ripe for parody.

Indeed.  :angel:

Indeed you are a very good artist, i appreciate that work of you, but along with this appreciation, i request you to read my above reply also!!!
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 04:35:38 AM
dattaswami, if you're really God, why do you not know how to speak and write English properly?  
God comes in human form for preaching divine knowledge. For other worldly knowledge like science, mathematics etc already lot of experts are available in this world itself. GOd need not come to the world for preaching mathematics etc. Jesus never preached mathematics etc....

God has a serious job to do, to preach the divine knowledge and to uplift the human souls. It is a very tough task which GOd alone can do, no body else can do this demanding job, since God alone posses the truth and He is the correct place of divine knowledge and He alone knows about Himself and there is a necessity that He has to be here on earth for preaching divine knowledge to people.

Already there are lot of false human preachers established in this world without any effort who preaches that salvation is free gift etc. Among such false preaches the true God decends in Human form. When the true God comes with the fire (the true knowledge) these petty human preachers run under cover. They will not be able stand infront of true divine knowledge. God alone can preach true divine knowledge.

Human preachers who are ordinary human beings; preach non-sense and increase your attachment to world rather than God.

God alone can preach the truth because He alone has the guts to do that, because He is unselfish and not for any followers, He is not going to loose or gain anything; hence He preaches the truth. He is not bothered about His followings or number of disciples. But human preachers are not like that, they need big crowds, clapping, fame name etc.

God preaches truth even if others dislike it.....
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 12, 2010, 05:46:14 AM

God preaches truth even if others dislike it.....


The famous Kama Sutra states that homosexual sex "is to be engaged in and enjoyed for its own sake as one of the arts."

Swami,  would this apply to the incarnations of the divinity on earth?  What about Swamis and all religious teachers?    Would it be a sign that they are *not* from God and not preaching the truth if they did not engage in homosexual sex?

I understand that you are seen as a divine incarnation.  Do you uphold this teaching?
Title: Re: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism
Post by: dattaswami on November 12, 2010, 05:59:38 AM

God preaches truth even if others dislike it.....


The famous Kama Sutra states that homosexual sex "is to be engaged in and enjoyed for its own sake as one of the arts."

Swami,  would this apply to the incarnations of the divinity on earth?  What about Swamis and all religious teachers?    Would it be a sign that they are *not* from God and not preaching the truth if they did not engage in homosexual sex?

I understand that you are seen as a divine incarnation.  Do you uphold this teaching?
Homosexuality is not good. First of all, one should know that the concept of sex should not be magnified and should not be given over attention. Sex is a biological need of the body like hunger and thirst. It is a biological issue at physical level because, when the food is taken, a part of it is supplied to the reproductive system, by which, it gives signals in the form of sexual desire for the growth of human race on this earth. It is created by God for this purpose so that the souls come down to the earth through the bodies created by sexual union. Thus, sex is a factor involved in the divine mission, which functions in a circular way by bringing down the souls to the earth and taking them away from the earth.

Disease is another biological need for the body to disintegrate and liberate the soul for its journey to the upper world. This is the cycle of creation called as “karma chakra”, which involves of taking the souls to the upper world for treatment and bringing down the souls after treatment. Birth is a vehicle in one direction running with the petrol called sex. Death is the same vehicle running in reverse direction with the petrol called illness. Petrol is one and the same and therefore sex is a type of illness, which is in the divine service of God and should not be looked down or aversed.

Sex is divine and its deity is “Manmadha” or “kama deva”, who is the son of Lord Narayana only. He is doing the divine duty following the path of Pravritti or justice. In the Gita, Lord said that He is kama, following justice (Dharmaaviruddhah...). There is no need of shy in feeling hungry, thirsty, sleepy, spitting, urination, excretion etc. which are just simple biological, universal and routine activities. Sex is also in the same list, about which you should not think so much.

   If you have understood the divine purpose of sex, there is no meaning in the homosexuality. It can be taken as a peculiar type of the biological need, which has no divine purpose. Satisfaction of hunger by eating food is not the divine aim. To maintain the body for doing Sadhana is the divine purpose and hunger is a signal indicating the same point. Without knowing this aim, some people say, “What is this eating, sleeping, living etc?” It shows their ignorance about the main aim of the human life. According to many, the aim of the human life is to enjoy the life with the family and get name and fame in the society as a rich man or as a scholar or as a capable person etc.

 Many feel that they have lifted the Govardhana hill by earning money and by bringing up their children. They feel that their lives are fulfilled when the circle of their friends and relatives appreciate him as a great disciplined person by uplifting his children. He wants appreciation from the friends and relatives by words like “How much educated and rich he is! Yet see his humbleness, humility and simplicity!” The poor fellow become unconscious by this hypnotic drug and helps them, whose aim is only the help from him. When the help is over, their suppressed jealousy comes out who will be abusing him. Thus, his life is neither fulfilled in this world, nor in the upper world.

   The sages saw Rama and liked to embrace Him. Is it not homosexuality? No. They will not have such feeling, which is unjust and unnatural also. It is unjust because, it does not serve the purpose of reproduction, which is the divine justice. It is also not a natural path of satisfying the sex hunger. They had beautiful wives and reproduced children, thus serving the divine mission of the Lord. Moreover, they did not like to embrace Him in the same forms as males. They liked to embrace Him after transforming into females. This does not come under Pravritti, because they have wives and children already.

This comes under nivritti in which the climax of love towards God called as devotion, which crosses all the limits of nature and justice. It is infinite love towards God, which is unimaginable. The context of such feeling is neither reproduction, which is divine mission nor the pacification of sex-hunger, which is a biological need. It is the unimaginable attraction of the heart of the devotee towards the Lord. This attraction is not simply based on the physical beauty of the Lord, which is meaningless, if analysed. It is the attraction of the heart of the devotee towards the total personality of the Lord.

There is