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Moderated Forums => Liturgy => Topic started by: JLatimer on July 28, 2010, 09:07:59 PM

Title: Prayer for sick non-Orthodox
Post by: JLatimer on July 28, 2010, 09:07:59 PM
I have a copy of the "Old Orthodox Prayer Book" which contains a useful Canon for the Sick (which seems to be based in part on the Holy Unction Service canon). I can use this if I need to pray for sick Orthodox Christians, but as the text assumes Church membership on the part of the sick person being prayed for,

I was wondering if anyone knew of any services or prayers for sick non-Orthodox?

Obviously, since I live in a place where few people are Orthodox, but lots of people are sick, I'd like to be able to say more than just a quick "Lord, have mercy" for them (not that there's anything wrong with "Lord, have mercy"!).

One time I tried just 'modifying' the Canon to take out references to the sick person being part of the church and replace with something like "and grant them conversion to the Orthodox Faith", but I felt uncomfortable doing this, and it was also rather clunky. I ended up distracted not really praying (so, yeah, "Lord, have mercy" obviously would have been better).

Anyway, if anyone has any ideas/advice on this, it'd be greatly appreciated. Especially appreciated would be the text of a prayer service for the purpose, if some such exists!
Title: Re: Prayer for sick non-Orthodox
Post by: augustin717 on July 28, 2010, 10:37:47 PM
Com'on man, just pray for them.
I don't get all this fuss ??? ??? ??? ??? ::)
Title: Re: Prayer for sick non-Orthodox
Post by: JLatimer on July 28, 2010, 10:51:26 PM
Thank you for your kind and helpful response.
Title: Re: Prayer for sick non-Orthodox
Post by: IXOYE on July 28, 2010, 11:03:54 PM
I looked over that Canon in my copy.  Why not just do the Canon omitting references to the Church, etc.?
Title: Re: Prayer for sick non-Orthodox
Post by: arimethea on July 28, 2010, 11:13:52 PM
One time I tried just 'modifying' the Canon to take out references to the sick person being part of the church and replace with something like "and grant them conversion to the Orthodox Faith", but I felt uncomfortable doing this, and it was also rather clunky. I ended up distracted not really praying (so, yeah, "Lord, have mercy" obviously would have been better).

Are you praying these prayers with these people? Their function is for the person who is sick to hear them. If they are not present "Lord have mercy" should suffice. Now, if you feel that you are getting spiritual benefit from them then keep on reading them but, if you are saying them so that the person may be healed by the saying of those specific prayers, what you are actually doing is no different then witchcraft.
Title: Re: Prayer for sick non-Orthodox
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 29, 2010, 09:43:09 AM
One time I tried just 'modifying' the Canon to take out references to the sick person being part of the church and replace with something like "and grant them conversion to the Orthodox Faith", but I felt uncomfortable doing this, and it was also rather clunky. I ended up distracted not really praying (so, yeah, "Lord, have mercy" obviously would have been better).

Are you praying these prayers with these people? Their function is for the person who is sick to hear them. If they are not present "Lord have mercy" should suffice. Now, if you feel that you are getting spiritual benefit from them then keep on reading them but, if you are saying them so that the person may be healed by the saying of those specific prayers, what you are actually doing is no different then witchcraft.

I'm not sure I follow you on the witchcraft allegation. There are plenty of prayers one can pray for anyone in any circumstance. We pray the paraklesis to the Theotokos for anyone who needs her help.
Title: Re: Prayer for sick non-Orthodox
Post by: arimethea on July 29, 2010, 10:26:22 AM
One time I tried just 'modifying' the Canon to take out references to the sick person being part of the church and replace with something like "and grant them conversion to the Orthodox Faith", but I felt uncomfortable doing this, and it was also rather clunky. I ended up distracted not really praying (so, yeah, "Lord, have mercy" obviously would have been better).

Are you praying these prayers with these people? Their function is for the person who is sick to hear them. If they are not present "Lord have mercy" should suffice. Now, if you feel that you are getting spiritual benefit from them then keep on reading them but, if you are saying them so that the person may be healed by the saying of those specific prayers, what you are actually doing is no different then witchcraft.

I'm not sure I follow you on the witchcraft allegation. There are plenty of prayers one can pray for anyone in any circumstance. We pray the paraklesis to the Theotokos for anyone who needs her help.
I am sorry I wasn't clearer. What I meant by my comment is when we get so tied up on the words of the prayer thinking that if we say the right ones God will react to our prayer, then you are not praying but trying to practice magic.

Also go and read the prayers of the Paraklesis, it is prayed in the first person (my, our, we). While other who are not present may be being prayed for, the service is of direct benefit for those present. If we could just say the prayers of healing without the person who needs healing present, then the priest would not need to visit those in the hospital, and could just stay and church and pray for them.

My whole point is don't go changing words of the prayers because the person isn't Orthodox. When we say these types of prayers in private devotion it is about us more then it is about them. We need to be healed so that those around us may be healed.
Title: Re: Prayer for sick non-Orthodox
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 29, 2010, 11:17:54 AM
One time I tried just 'modifying' the Canon to take out references to the sick person being part of the church and replace with something like "and grant them conversion to the Orthodox Faith", but I felt uncomfortable doing this, and it was also rather clunky. I ended up distracted not really praying (so, yeah, "Lord, have mercy" obviously would have been better).

Are you praying these prayers with these people? Their function is for the person who is sick to hear them. If they are not present "Lord have mercy" should suffice. Now, if you feel that you are getting spiritual benefit from them then keep on reading them but, if you are saying them so that the person may be healed by the saying of those specific prayers, what you are actually doing is no different then witchcraft.

I'm not sure I follow you on the witchcraft allegation. There are plenty of prayers one can pray for anyone in any circumstance. We pray the paraklesis to the Theotokos for anyone who needs her help.
I am sorry I wasn't clearer. What I meant by my comment is when we get so tied up on the words of the prayer thinking that if we say the right ones God will react to our prayer, then you are not praying but trying to practice magic.

Also go and read the prayers of the Paraklesis, it is prayed in the first person (my, our, we). While other who are not present may be being prayed for, the service is of direct benefit for those present. If we could just say the prayers of healing without the person who needs healing present, then the priest would not need to visit those in the hospital, and could just stay and church and pray for them.

My whole point is don't go changing words of the prayers because the person isn't Orthodox. When we say these types of prayers in private devotion it is about us more then it is about them. We need to be healed so that those around us may be healed.

All good points. I seem to remember not so much a teaching but an implication in the sayings of Elder Porphyrios about how, through the Jesus Prayer, when one prays "have mercy on me," there is also benefit and intercession for those for whom one prays as well. I don't know that the elder was praying, "have mercy on N." instead, because he prayed for so many people, saying the Jesus Prayer. It is the prayer of the heart after all. Elder Paisios talks about the importance of praying with pain of heart and love--this is like the Holy Spirit, who intercedes with groans to deep for words.
Title: Re: Prayer for sick non-Orthodox
Post by: Father H on August 04, 2010, 10:31:31 PM
The Lord will receive those which he wishes.   Just pray for them.  Leave the rest up to the Lord.