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Moderated Forums => Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion => Orthodox-Protestant Discussion => Topic started by: Br. Max, OFC on December 02, 2003, 02:22:22 PM

Title: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Br. Max, OFC on December 02, 2003, 02:22:22 PM
Quote
In very general terms, the Russian Orthodox church is much like Roman Catholicism, without the Pope. There is no salvation by grace, no concept of evangelism, a high emphasis on structure, ritual and church hierarchy. They also actively oppose (sometimes violently) evangelicals in the former USSR. THe RO church is the official church in much of the former USSR.(There are some doctrinal differences between RO and RC, too, but they are mostly in details.)

The above was posted on another forum by some one who thinks himself an expert on all things Christian.  Just though you might like to know that you do NOT teach salvation by grace.  ::)
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Jonathan on December 02, 2003, 02:39:49 PM
We're used to this stuff..  http://www.namb.net/evangelism/iev/PDF/BB_E_Orthodox_Manual.pdf   http://www.gospelcom.net/mnn/special/ethiopia/ethiopia5-26-00.html

The bast though is the Jack Chick comic strip that calls the RC Church the Whore of Babylon and us her bastard step-children...
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Justinianus on December 02, 2003, 02:58:49 PM
Is is incredible how much in error that statement is.  It is obvious that he knows very little about Orthodox Christianity.
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: amhalaba on December 02, 2003, 03:07:24 PM
the Whore of Babylon and us her bastard step-children...

Oh! I LOVE that!

Once in a group a guy not realizing I was RC called Catholics "idolatrous, goddess-worshipping, cracker-eating pagans" and I almost lost the mouthful of wine I had just sipped out my nose. Now, whenever asked what faith or denomination I am, I always smile and barely refrain from saying that. Funny how it stuck...

Most of these ridiculous statements don't challenge as much as they create firmer resolve.

Anybody else heard any winners lately? Points for creativity!
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Bogoliubtsy on December 02, 2003, 03:21:52 PM
Yesterday I stumbled upon one of those evangelical Christian radio programs. At first the topic seemed promising- a seemingly intelligent and well-spoken evangelical was speaking about his studies of the early Church. He joked about having thought at one time that Church history began in 1930...but then he became aware of earlier Church writings(he didn't state which writings). Anyway, the program when quickly downhill when he, and a woman co-hosting the program, began speaking about how Christ's teachings were distorted right from the start- he focused mainly on the "distortions" of monasticism and fasting! He cited some of the words of St. Paul(not all, of course) and the verse which mentions that in the end times people will take to very strict fasting and an unhealthy view of sexuality(can't remember the verse right now)- not enjoying the things God has rightfully given them. The man and woman went on to state that monasticism and fasting were born from the influence of "gnostic heresy"(yes, these people had the audacity to talk about heresies..ha) and the gnostic concept of there being a divide between the spiritual and the material.
Great stuff  :smiley8:
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Oblio on December 02, 2003, 04:16:16 PM
Sounds like the Calvary Chapel program Dial a heresy ... er ... I mean To every man an Answer, or it could have been the Good News Network who hosts Dave Hunt on Sat evenings.
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Doubting Thomas on December 02, 2003, 04:23:57 PM
Bogoliubtsky,

I believe the passage is I Timothy 4:1-4 which says that  in "latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons...forbidding to marry and commanding to obtain from certain foods....".

I've heard this passage being used as an apologetic against Catholicism (and by extension, to Orthodoxy, since EOxy is "nothing more than Catholicism without the Pope") as well.  And at one time I used to buy into that argument  ::).  It's funny what happens, however, when you start to look at the other side of the "argument".  ;D
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Oblio on December 02, 2003, 04:36:43 PM
Quote
It's funny what happens, however, when you start to look at the other side of the "argument".  

Or looking at monastics IRL.  

I saw a lot on Ayios Oros, departure from faith, deceiving spirits and demons were strangely absent :)
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Linus7 on December 02, 2003, 05:11:26 PM
Bogoliubtsky,

I believe the passage is I Timothy 4:1-4 which says that  in "latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons...forbidding to marry and commanding to obtain from certain foods....".

I've heard this passage being used as an apologetic against Catholicism (and by extension, to Orthodoxy, since EOxy is "nothing more than Catholicism without the Pope") as well.  And at one time I used to buy into that argument  ::).  It's funny what happens, however, when you start to look at the other side of the "argument".  ;D

It is interesting how that passage from 1 Timothy was actually fulfilled by the Albigensians, who forbade marriage and the eating of meat.

Some Protestant groups actually cite the Albigensians as "true Christians"who were preserving the Gospel in the "hidden parallel church"!
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Oblio on December 02, 2003, 05:17:11 PM
A cross-board simulpost :)

I just used the term HPC over at CF
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Linus7 on December 02, 2003, 05:21:10 PM
A cross-board simulpost :)

I just used the term HPC over at CF

I got burned out on that place.

Too many whacky Neo-Judaizers and self-important Calvinists.

Law and Doom.

What a combination!
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Oblio on December 02, 2003, 05:28:09 PM
It goes in cycles.  Hang out at the Taberna :)
The anoying heretic of the week nut is a fellow that goes on and on about how the Nativity and Pascha feasts were instituted by pagans. (flash - He is not a MJ)
simchat has settled down a bit now that he is a mod too.
The doomers are still around, but I just ignore them (I know it is harder for you, having recovered from that brainscrubbin they tried to give you)
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Br. Max, OFC on December 02, 2003, 05:34:10 PM

 . . .  called Catholics "idolatrous, goddess-worshipping, cracker-eating pagans"

Sad - but funny.  If ignorance is bliss that guy will be high all his life!
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Doubting Thomas on December 02, 2003, 05:38:24 PM

It is interesting how that passage from 1 Timothy was actually fulfilled by the Albigensians, who forbade marriage and the eating of meat.

Some Protestant groups actually cite the Albigensians as "true Christians"who were preserving the Gospel in the "hidden parallel church"!

That is interesting indeed.  Yeah,  I've read several accounts of the "hidden parallel church" from Carroll's Trail of Blood to Broadbent's The Pilgrim Church.  There are in fact several on the Baptist board who buy into this, believing there have always been "baptist" churches throughout history maintaining the true faith while being persecuted by the corrupt state church ("whore of Babylon") headquartered in Rome.  No, they weren't always called "Baptists".  Through the years the wicked Roman institution has given them such names as "Novatians", "Donatists", "Montanists", "Paulicians", "Bogomils", "Cathari", "Albigensians", "Waldensians", and "Anabaptists" (among many others, the records of whom have been destroyed by Rome).  However, the truth was betrayed when Cardinal Hosius said (? in the 16th century) WTTE that had the church not persecuted the "baptists" for the past 1200 years, then they'd be more numerous than the reformers!  :o

The embarrassing thing is I more or less believed this uncritically for a time.  :-[
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Br. Max, OFC on December 02, 2003, 05:38:30 PM
What gets me is that I'm called RC by all the fundies - and a fake by the catholics. I can't please anyone!!  Oh well I just can't stand to see falsehoods stated as facts.  Interpretation issues are one thing - blatent misinformation is another.  I posted a website for Orthodox beliefs and shot down what was said.
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Br. Max, OFC on December 02, 2003, 05:52:09 PM
Thomas: Trail of blood?  People still read that fiction.
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Doubting Thomas on December 02, 2003, 07:47:24 PM
Thomas: Trail of blood?  People still read that fiction.

Oh, yes--it may be linked on the internet from various indepedent fundamental baptist websites, so I'm sure its being read by at least a few.
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Br. Max, OFC on December 02, 2003, 08:15:28 PM
wow.  I didn't know religious fiction was that popular
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Doubting Thomas on December 02, 2003, 09:38:04 PM
wow.  I didn't know religious fiction was that popular

The sad thing is that the people who read this don't believe it is fiction.  ::)
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Saint Polycarp on December 02, 2003, 09:42:44 PM
What gets me is that I'm called RC by all the fundies - and a fake by the catholics. I can't please anyone!!  Oh well I just can't stand to see falsehoods stated as facts.  Interpretation issues are one thing - blatent misinformation is another.  I posted a website for Orthodox beliefs and shot down what was said.
Why would a Catholic call you fake?
Peace,
Polycarp
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Br. Max, OFC on December 02, 2003, 09:59:18 PM
polycarp: oh that would be because I'm not RC and I have the nerve to say that I am a franciscan and that I believe in the Eucharist.  thats just not allowed.

Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Br. Max, OFC on December 02, 2003, 10:01:30 PM
Thomas: lots of churches pass off fiction as truth - take the donation of constantine for example
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: amhalaba on December 02, 2003, 10:16:55 PM
calls the RC Church the Whore of Babylon and us her bastard step-children...

Maybe you Orthodox folks should straighten Mr. Chick out. Shouldn't this read that Orthodoxy is the Whore of Babylon and Rome is it's bastard step-children?

 ;)
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Ben on December 02, 2003, 11:00:35 PM
What gets me is that I'm called RC by all the fundies - and a fake by the catholics. I can't please anyone!!  Oh well I just can't stand to see falsehoods stated as facts.  Interpretation issues are one thing - blatent misinformation is another.  I posted a website for Orthodox beliefs and shot down what was said.
Why would a Catholic call you fake?
Peace,
Polycarp


Well I'm Catholic, so I can only explain, in my opinion, why he might be considered a "fake" by some Catholics and Roman Catholicism in general.

He accepts and embrases 7 Roman Catholic sacraments, a Roman Catholic liturgy, Roman Catholic prayers and Roman Catholic Saints, yet he is not Roman Catholic.

It is kind of like Byzantine Catholics claiming to be "Orthodox in union with Rome", I have met many Orthodox Christians who feel they are just fake, and wanna be Orthos. This is not exactly the same situation, but close.

I don't know.....but what Br. Max is doing in the eyes of many is like mocking the Roman Catholic faith.
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Linus7 on December 02, 2003, 11:26:14 PM
Quote
Ben: It is kind of like Byzantine Catholics claiming to be "Orthodox in union with Rome", I have met many Orthodox Christians who feel they are just fake, and wanna be Orthos. This is not exactly the same situation, but close.

I know I am opening myself up for a few shots, but I do not feel that Byzantine Catholics are fakes or wannabes (I know you were not saying that they are, Ben).

One of my best friends is Byzantine Catholic, and God used him powerfully in my conversion to holy Orthodoxy. I respect my friend tremendously. He has good reasons for why he is what he is and he is most definitely no wannabe or fake.

If God allows, I will testify on his behalf at the Judgment.
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Ben on December 02, 2003, 11:34:15 PM
I am in no way saying Byzantine Catholics are wannabes, but I know when my Orthodox friends here "Orthodox in union with Rome", along with my RCC friends, they cringe. It is most certainly a fake title. Firstly they are not Orthodox! Secondly they are in submission to Rome not "in union" with Rome. Anywho I often hear Orthodox Christians complaining about Byzantine Catholics who claim to be Orthodox. Sorry if I offended anyone!
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Linus7 on December 03, 2003, 12:43:27 AM
I am in no way saying Byzantine Catholics are wannabes, but I know when my Orthodox friends here "Orthodox in union with Rome", along with my RCC friends, they cringe. It is most certainly a fake title. Firstly they are not Orthodox! Secondly they are in submission to Rome not "in union" with Rome. Anywho I often hear Orthodox Christians complaining about Byzantine Catholics who claim to be Orthodox. Sorry if I offended anyone!

You did not offend me, and I agree that saying "Orthodox in union with Rome" is a stretch, although, historically speaking, it is not inaccurate.

I think the term Byzantine Catholic is better and more descriptive; but, then again, couldn't one describe Orthodox Christians as Byzantine Catholics?

Now I've probably really P-Oed some people!

 ;D
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Linus7 on December 03, 2003, 12:47:26 AM
It goes in cycles.  Hang out at the Taberna :)
The anoying heretic of the week nut is a fellow that goes on and on about how the Nativity and Pascha feasts were instituted by pagans. (flash - He is not a MJ)
simchat has settled down a bit now that he is a mod too.
The doomers are still around, but I just ignore them (I know it is harder for you, having recovered from that brainscrubbin they tried to give you)

Have you noticed that almost every other person over there is a moderator?

Even the bugs?

Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

And MJs are rotten-to-the-core heretics. They have about as much business on a supposed Christian Forum as Moonies or Jehovah's Witnesses.

Notice how I suckered Brother Max into coming over here after CF banned him?  ;D
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Mor Ephrem on December 03, 2003, 01:04:50 AM
Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

You called?
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Linus7 on December 03, 2003, 01:09:38 AM
Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

You called?

Lol.

I should have said "not enough Aboriginal Americans"!

Or I could have gone Canadian and said, "not enough 'First Nations' persons."

 ;D
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Mor Ephrem on December 03, 2003, 01:16:42 AM
(American) Indians would've been just fine with me.  The other alternatives you propose sound like a mouthful.  :P
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Br. Max, OFC on December 03, 2003, 11:14:24 AM


I don't know.....but what Br. Max is doing in the eyes of many is like mocking the Roman Catholic faith.

Ah, but that is because they feel we are infringing on territory they own and worse - we are thriving!   :)
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Br. Max, OFC on December 03, 2003, 11:18:09 AM
mor: the "PC police" like us to fill out mouths with unnessecary crap.
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Yeshua HaDerekh on April 29, 2013, 08:44:44 AM
calls the RC Church the Whore of Babylon and us her bastard step-children...

Maybe you Orthodox folks should straighten Mr. Chick out. Shouldn't this read that Orthodoxy is the Whore of Babylon and Rome is it's bastard step-children?

 ;)

The Church of Rome left all the other Patriarchates so in reality it is the first "protestant" and all the others are its daughters.
Title: Re:AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Yeshua HaDerekh on April 29, 2013, 08:48:48 AM
I am in no way saying Byzantine Catholics are wannabes, but I know when my Orthodox friends here "Orthodox in union with Rome", along with my RCC friends, they cringe. It is most certainly a fake title. Firstly they are not Orthodox! Secondly they are in submission to Rome not "in union" with Rome. Anywho I often hear Orthodox Christians complaining about Byzantine Catholics who claim to be Orthodox. Sorry if I offended anyone!

If you are in union under the Pope of Rome, you are Roman Catholic, not Eastern Orthodox, no matter what you call yourself.
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Arachne on April 29, 2013, 08:50:31 AM
Why the necromancy, bro? ???
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Cyrillic on April 29, 2013, 08:51:19 AM
The Law of Moses bans necromancy.
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Papist on April 29, 2013, 09:52:46 AM
Br. Max, are you Byz. Catholic?
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Arachne on April 29, 2013, 10:14:30 AM
Br. Max, are you Byz. Catholic?

Considering the poster hasn't been around since 2005, don't hold your breath for a reply...
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: sprtslvr1973 on April 30, 2013, 07:42:45 AM
Anyone aware of Orthodox Christians, in North America or Europe, that write the kind of **** about Protestants and Catholics that fake Christians like Morey, Cloud, Chick write about us? I hope not, but would not be completely surprised, as we are definitely sinners as well.


Partially veiled profanity veiled completely to enforce compliance with forum anti-profanity rules  -PtA
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Cyrillic on April 30, 2013, 07:45:34 AM
Anyone aware of Orthodox Christians, in North America or Europe, that write the kind of s*** about Protestants and Catholics that fake Christians like Morey, Cloud, Chick write about us? I hope not, but would not be completely surprised, as we are definitely sinners as well.

I know of one...
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: sprtslvr1973 on April 30, 2013, 08:09:47 AM
Who? Is their work published?
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Cyrillic on April 30, 2013, 08:16:53 AM
Who? Is their work published?

For ignorant and slanderous stories about western Christianity mixed with some wacky conspiracy theories I suggest Franks, Romans, Feudalism and Doctrine by Fr. John Romanides. It isn't as bad as a Chick-tract, though, but still...
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: theistgal on April 30, 2013, 09:41:10 AM
Anyone aware of Orthodox Christians, in North America or Europe, that write the kind of s*** about Protestants and Catholics that fake Christians like Morey, Cloud, Chick write about us? I hope not, but would not be completely surprised, as we are definitely sinners as well.

I know of one...

I do too, and right here on this forum ... one of the reasons I occasionally have to take a break!  ;D
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: Cyrillic on April 30, 2013, 09:42:27 AM
Anyone aware of Orthodox Christians, in North America or Europe, that write the kind of s*** about Protestants and Catholics that fake Christians like Morey, Cloud, Chick write about us? I hope not, but would not be completely surprised, as we are definitely sinners as well.

I know of one...

I do too, and right here on this forum ... one of the reasons I occasionally have to take a break!  ;D

I was afraid someone would say this.... :)
Title: Re: AR you aware that orthnodoxy teaches . . . .
Post by: theistgal on April 30, 2013, 06:57:14 PM
Anyone aware of Orthodox Christians, in North America or Europe, that write the kind of s*** about Protestants and Catholics that fake Christians like Morey, Cloud, Chick write about us? I hope not, but would not be completely surprised, as we are definitely sinners as well.

I know of one...

I do too, and right here on this forum ... one of the reasons I occasionally have to take a break!  ;D

I was afraid someone would say this.... :)

Don't worry, I'm not giving names or kicking anything!  ;D