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Moderated Forums => Liturgy => Western Rite Discussion => Topic started by: mike on September 11, 2009, 09:47:47 AM

Title: Hierarchical DL
Post by: mike on September 11, 2009, 09:47:47 AM
How are the DLs of St. Tikhon or St. Gregory served when there is a Bishop present?

I've seen pictures of one Antiochian Parish when a Bishop was fully vested (sakkos, mitre, all that stuff) and he seemed to preside the DL. I've also seen a video from St. Petroc Monastery with Met. Hilarion present. He only wore his omophorion on the mantiya and blessed the people a few times and took Eucharist but it looked like he was not serving.

How are they like? Are Byzantine Bishop's prayers added or are Western prayers used?
Title: Re: Hierarchical DL
Post by: searn77 on September 11, 2009, 11:13:28 PM
When I was at a liturgy of St. Gregory with the bishop there, he just stood to the side and didn't preside at all with the liturgy. But he did give the homily. I don't remember if he gave out the Eucharist or if it was the priest. And he wore his regular eastern vestments but I have heard somewhere online that a bishop once wore western vestments. From what I have heard, most bishops won't preside since most bishops don't know the liturgy that well.
Title: Re: Hierarchical DL
Post by: Reader KevinAndrew on September 12, 2009, 07:58:47 AM
The bishops do very little. They just preside and the priest-celebrant celebrates Mass in his stead. The bishop is censed in the places in the Mass where he is supoosed to, the incense is brought to him for it to be blessed, as is the water cruet during Communion  preparation. Whoever is supposed to read the Gospel (priest or deacon) goes to him for a blessing, prior to chanting it. No Byzantine prayers are added to this service.
Title: Re: Hierarchical DL
Post by: ialmisry on September 12, 2009, 09:03:38 AM
When I was at a liturgy of St. Gregory with the bishop there, he just stood to the side and didn't preside at all with the liturgy. But he did give the homily. I don't remember if he gave out the Eucharist or if it was the priest. And he wore his regular eastern vestments but I have heard somewhere online that a bishop once wore western vestments. From what I have heard, most bishops won't preside since most bishops don't know the liturgy that well.

I'll been to Eastern DL where the bishop was present but did not preside nor celebrate, and it was much like described here^.

Would be nice if we could get a WRO bishop.  God grant it!
Title: Re: Hierarchical DL
Post by: mike on September 12, 2009, 01:23:17 PM
Thank you all.
Title: Re: Hierarchical DL
Post by: Alpo on September 12, 2009, 08:55:38 PM
Would be nice if we could get a WRO bishop.  God grant it!
We have bishop Jerome of Manhattan in ROCOR.

Quote from: Sarisburium (http://sarisburium.blogspot.com/2009/03/new-bishop-to-work-with-western-rite.html)
When yet a junior priest of the Russian Church in the 1970s, then-Fr. John Shaw became father of the Sarum rite movement which flourished more particularly in Old Calendarist and Russian Church-Abroad circles and became the most widely-published of any Western rite liturgy in modern times. Fr. John celebrated many Liturgies in the Sarum use of the Roman rite, and guided the development of the rite as it came to be published by the St. Hilarion and St. Gregory Presses. This was not an official collaboration, but was seminal in helping determine, for example, just what parts of Western observance from mediaeval England were inappropriate for Orthodox worship today. Bishop Jerome works pastorally with those who use a variety of forms of Western rite, in a judicious and Christian spirit.

It would be interesting to know whether his grace has celeberated a mass during his episcopate.