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Moderated Forums => Oriental Orthodox Discussion => Topic started by: Athanasios on December 14, 2008, 11:29:29 PM

Title: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Athanasios on December 14, 2008, 11:29:29 PM
Hello,

What are your opinions of modern Coptic icons, such as those created by Isaac Fanous?
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: ialmisry on December 15, 2008, 12:05:25 AM
Hello,

What are your opinions of modern Coptic icons, such as those created by Isaac Fanous?

Love it, love it, love it! Makes me cry when I see a Coptic Church with Western wanna be "icons," when this stuff is available.

And did I mention I love it?
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Alveus Lacuna on December 15, 2008, 02:33:50 AM
I think that they are beautiful.  My Christ icon that I use for private devotion is in this style. 

However, I purchased this icon at an early stage of my inquiry into Orthodoxy.  Had I know at the time that this came from outside of the Eastern Orthodox communion then I might not have purchased it.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Athanasios on December 15, 2008, 03:18:12 PM
Yes, they are beautiful. I have several of Dr. Fanous' icons -- Saint Michael the Archangel, Saint Athanasius, the Nativity and the Crucifixion.


I just recalled that one Coptic didn't think too highly of the new contemporary school (to say the least) and just wondered if this viewpoint was a common one.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Lily on December 15, 2008, 03:36:14 PM
I think they're breathtaking, and a nice change from the Byzantine style.  We have several replicas of his icons.  Our priest was happy to bless them for us.  We made a special trip to the Coptic cathedral in L.A. to get them.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Orthodox11 on December 15, 2008, 04:20:58 PM
I love them, and own several. But I would also really like to see old-style Coptic icons being used more - the newly restored 13th Century icons at St. Anthony's Monastery are absolutely stunning. This documentary (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Zl6VOairI) has some great examples.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Jonathan on December 15, 2008, 04:47:13 PM
I love them, and own several. But I would also really like to see old-style Coptic icons being used more - the newly restored 13th Century icons at St. Anthony's Monastery are absolutely stunning. This documentary (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Zl6VOairI) has some great examples.

I agree.  I really don't like most of the modern ones.  One monk put it best when he said they make people look like the simpsons cartoon.  Some of them are nice.  But I'll take them any day over western portraits!
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Orthodox11 on December 15, 2008, 04:55:46 PM
One monk put it best when he said they make people look like the simpsons cartoon. 

Perhaps not the Simpsons, but I can see the similarities between the shapes, angles, lines, etc. of neo-Coptic art and more recent Disney cartoons.

Not that that's a bad thing. Like I said, I'm very fond of neo-Coptic art in general (though I do prefer the older stuff).

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But I'll take them any day over western portraits!

Amen.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: VirSpeluncaeOrthodoxae on December 15, 2008, 05:48:39 PM
Da Caveman loves them! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YEAH!
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Athanasios on December 15, 2008, 06:25:41 PM
But I'll take them any day over western portraits!

You mean like this 13th century Latin icon of the Nativity in a Roman Church:

(http://www.wga.hu/detail/c/cavallin/mosaic/jesus.jpg)


While the Catholic Church makes use of statues (hey, even the Eastern Orthodox have used statues -- I'm thinking of a beautiful one of Saint Michael in the vicinity of Constantinople) and "realistic" images that rapidly developed in the time of the Renaissance when Western artists started to better understand concepts such as perspective -- there is still a proud heritage of Latin iconography in the Catholic Church.

That's the only point of this post.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Orthodox11 on December 15, 2008, 06:31:40 PM
You mean like this 13th century Latin icon of the Nativity in a Roman Church:

I think the use of the word "portrait," as opposed to "icon," was deliberate.

This is great:
(http://www.wga.hu/detail/c/cavallin/mosaic/jesus.jpg)

This is not (in a liturgical context):
(http://www.jesus-passion.com/SacredHeartJesus2.jpg)
(http://www.utilitarianism.com/jesus-christ.jpg)
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Athanasios on December 15, 2008, 06:38:17 PM
^^The Latin rite of the Catholic Church doesn't use icons (or other images) to the same extent that the Eastern and Oriental Churches do. We will use statues or sometimes images in processions -- which are sometimes quasi-liturgical; but we really don't have a tradition of ordinarily using them to venerate during a Liturgy.

Of the two you linked, the first of the Sacred Heart could likely be in a church building (though not used for liturgical use), but the second one linked probably won't be found in a Catholic church building -- though it is likely widespread in homes.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Alveus Lacuna on December 15, 2008, 07:10:31 PM
Perhaps not the Simpsons, but I can see the similarities between the shapes, angles, lines, etc. of neo-Coptic art and more recent Disney cartoons.

I personally do not think that this looks anything like a Disney cartoon:

(http://theotokos.org/images/ChurchIcons/28-ChristEnthroned-B.jpg)

I think those sorts of comments are unwarranted and deliberately hurtful.  I commend the Copts for trying to cultivate a renewed and distinctly Egyptian icon tradition that is based on their past, but also looks forward.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Orthodox11 on December 15, 2008, 07:33:42 PM
I personally do not think that this looks anything like a Disney cartoon

I said there were similarities between certain features of neo-coptic iconography and those of certain modern Disney cartoons. I mentioned specifically angles, lines, and shapes. I don't see why this is offensive.

You're making it sound as if I said a Coptic icon of Christ Pantocrator looks like Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck. I did not.

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I think those sorts of comments are unwarranted and deliberately hurtful.

I'm not sure why you would say I'm being "deliberately hurtful" when I've already stated many times that I'm very fond of this kind of iconography. I own many such icons and I pray before them daily.

Quote
I commend the Copts for trying to cultivate a renewed and distinctly Egyptian icon tradition that is based on their past, but also looks forward.

As do I.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: Elisha on December 15, 2008, 08:04:01 PM
Perhaps not the Simpsons, but I can see the similarities between the shapes, angles, lines, etc. of neo-Coptic art and more recent Disney cartoons.

I personally do not think that this looks anything like a Disney cartoon:

I think those sorts of comments are unwarranted and deliberately hurtful.  I commend the Copts for trying to cultivate a renewed and distinctly Egyptian icon tradition that is based on their past, but also looks forward.

I'm somewhat in agreement too.  Remember, it was a MONK who said that.  It is NOT deliberately hurtful, but a commentary on a style.  Attributes like this (cartoon-liike) often come up with modern icons.  I've heard people say the same about Fr. Luke Dingman's (Ben Lomond), and I agree as well.  It is also due to the iconographer using acrylic paints, which are brighter (almost fluorescent) as opposed to traditional mediums like egg tempera.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: _Seraphim_ on December 24, 2008, 06:51:54 PM
Hello,

What are your opinions of modern Coptic icons, such as those created by Isaac Fanous?


Most everyone from my Serbian/Russian/American parish are very fond of the Coptic contemporary iconography... (including the bookstore manager, who always keeps several in stock).  :)
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: _Seraphim_ on December 24, 2008, 06:52:21 PM
I purchased this icon at an early stage of my inquiry into Orthodoxy.  Had I know at the time that this came from outside of the Eastern Orthodox communion then I might not have purchased it.


My wife and I knew of the OO/EO distinction, but we still bought a couple of these Coptic icons and used them in our marriage ceremony anyway!  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: _Seraphim_ on December 24, 2008, 06:52:34 PM
We have several replicas of his icons.  Our priest was happy to bless them for us.


As was ours.
Title: Re: Modern Coptic Icons
Post by: _Seraphim_ on December 24, 2008, 06:53:23 PM
Love it, love it, love it!...

And did I mention I love it?


 8)