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Moderated Forums => Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion => Orthodox-Catholic Discussion => Topic started by: stashko on November 06, 2007, 11:30:23 PM

Title: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 06, 2007, 11:30:23 PM
Catholic answers forum,, removed the eastern christian sub -forum renamed it eastern catholic ,,,accused the orthodox of proselytizing the eastern catholics /roman catholic ,,,orthodox may be able to defend the faith in the non catholic sub-forum still not sure about that thought...i was banned for some reason.. in the new eastern catholic sub -forum if orthodox participate the cant call them selfs catholic or orthodox catholic acording to the moderator Therese  martin  stashko ???
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Salpy on November 07, 2007, 01:37:31 AM
Interesting how what people call themselves and others can be such a touchy issue.  Were the Othodox really proselytizing?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Anastasios on November 07, 2007, 01:39:00 AM
A much better place to debate Roman Catholics is Steve Ray's forums.catholic-convert.com where they have areas for this type of discussion.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 07, 2007, 03:04:48 AM
Interesting how what people call themselves and others can be such a touchy issue.  Were the Othodox really proselytizing?
 




Of course not ...but they did defend orthodoxy with gusto...the roman catholics couldnt take the heat....it was to much for them....    ;D   .stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 07, 2007, 03:10:17 AM
A much better place to debate Roman Catholics is Steve Ray's forums.catholic-convert.com where they have areas for this type of discussion.

 i never heard of this  forum ...i wounder if  our  orthodox Father Ambrose and the other orthodox posters on catholic answers heard of it ,,,since im banned i cant tell them darn it ...stashko :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ytterbiumanalyst on November 07, 2007, 09:01:21 AM
I had a weird dream the other night that EWTN started including Anglican and Orthodox programming. They held a giant festival with speakers from the three religions, which my wife and I and my parents attended. What my parents heard there from an Orthodox priest caused them to convert. Don't know the relevance of this, but it was really interesting to me.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 07, 2007, 11:25:26 AM
A much better place to debate Roman Catholics is Steve Ray's forums.catholic-convert.com where they have areas for this type of discussion.

Friends,

From now on, banners in signatures to other forums are not allowed although you may link to another forum or website in your signature, without comment.

From now on, you may not advertise your other web forum on our forum.  Links to threads on other forums are allowed, however, if they are pertinent to discussions here.

Proselytizing people to your jurisdiction is no longer allowed.  I don't care if it is the GOA or the ROAC, we don't exist to give spiritual advice, but rather to discuss spiritual matters. There is a healthy distinction.  If you feel the need to plug your group then do it by private message.

You may not private message others to solicit them to join your forum, however.  We have the ability to read other people's private messages (this is disclosed in the member agreement you sign when joining the forum) and we don't do that usually, but we can, and we will, if we think you are trying to lure people away from our site.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.  From a human standpoint I would be lying if I said that some people in particular did not precipitate this action BUT at the same time there have been others over the past 1.5 years who have done this as well, so it is not just based on a knee-jerk reaction.

Stay tuned for an even more indepth statement on proselytism to be issued soon by all of us Admins.

anastasios
ADMIN


???

Just kidding!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: brittrossiter on November 07, 2007, 11:42:54 AM
I was formerly a regular participant on the Catholic Answers "Eastern Christianity" forum.  I was never proselytized there, but what I did learn from the Orthodox posters ultimately caused me to begin my own inquiry and let me to the Holy Orthodox church

This is a very unfortunate development.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 07, 2007, 01:24:03 PM
I was formerly a regular participant on the Catholic Answers "Eastern Christianity" forum.  I was never proselytized there, but what I did learn from the Orthodox posters ultimately caused me to begin my own inquiry and let me to the Holy Orthodox church 

I'm glad that you found the experience speaking with the Orthodox helpful and edifying.

This is a very unfortunate development. 

Indeed.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 07, 2007, 01:35:52 PM
I really liked it over there.

But now I am gone, too bad so sad....the Orthodox participants were very good for the most part, and the amateur Rc apologists were unequipped to handle strong defenses from the perspective of Holy Orthodoxy. They basically train themselves to answer protestant objections, so they are not ready to handle real Catholics who disagree with them over the Papacy and certain other doctrinal points. Often they would create straw men by portraying Orthodox as another form of protestant.

Because the Orthodox were usually too savvy, the Rc apologists had a very difficult time dismissing the Orthodox through character assasination or other means, so they had to rely on facts. Rc sources of information are inadequate, actually, and they were often caught off guard by Orthodox interpretations of events and translations of Patristic quotes (to name just two examples). Reliance on sources like the old Catholic Encyclopedia puts most Rc apologists at a significant disadvantage, we would tell them this all the time but as each new crop of gung ho apologists would come in they would have referred back to the same outdated erroneous materials. Even Catholic Answers own materials were often deficient, with errors that should embarass them, but they did not do regular updates or corrections, apparently

I believe the archives (or some of them) are still available for viewing temporarily. Should make interesting reading for anyone so inclined.

I would suggest anyone of a mind to, going over there just to read the archives and copy posts of interest for your files, while they are still available.

Michael
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 07, 2007, 03:50:40 PM
I really liked it over there.

But now I am gone,...

Me too.

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2939396&postcount=47

Pitty, a good forum needs a rhytm and opposed parties. They alse have available online library and I did learn there.

Where is Fr Ambrose?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 07, 2007, 07:32:48 PM
I thought they had a good thing going...I have more problems with the Catholics there then the Orthodox...

Though in reality RC boards tend to give me a headache...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 07, 2007, 07:36:01 PM
I thought they had a good thing going...I have more problems with the Catholics there then the Orthodox...

Though in reality RC boards tend to give me a headache...
Hi James!

Me too. I can't stand the headaches...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 07, 2007, 07:44:08 PM
Me too.

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2939396&postcount=47

Pity, a good forum needs a rhytm and opposed parties. They also have available online library and I did learn there.

Where is Fr Ambrose?
Father Ambrose is also registered here, at OC net, and he has not been banned. (Although I have noticed that the latest batch of five or more banned in the last two days, do not have indicators under their names showing them as having been booted, while outside of that group the indicators for "Account under review" and "Banned" are still working.)

But right now it is early morning in Middle Earth, so father and the Hobbits would be rising just about now, saying prayers and fixing first breakfast!

Michael
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Anastasios on November 07, 2007, 08:19:06 PM

???

Just kidding!

I assume you refer to:

Quote
From now on, you may not advertise your other web forum on our forum.  Links to threads on other forums are allowed, however, if they are pertinent to discussions here.

however, Steve Ray's forum is not my forum and it is not competition with us insofar as it is the exact opposite of our forum (namely Orthodox would be on the defensive there).

:)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 07, 2007, 10:16:38 PM
Brother Michael, they had pity on me and gave a old wandering geezer a place of refuge, a Helm's Deep...

james
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 08, 2007, 11:18:34 AM
I must say I'll miss the crew from there. Actually, I already do.

I'd love if Orthodox that participated there stick at another forum. Perhaps this one, since monachos.net is quite slow and of different kind. Yet, we'll miss tempo - there was enough RC posters there to keep frequency of posts.

We Orthodox were quite good. I think RCC couldn't have stood us anymore.

After all, it's them that initiated dialogue with us and insisted on it. But we saw where it finished in case of CAF.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 08, 2007, 01:01:40 PM
As it happens, I just got suspended there!

I quoted a Greek Catholic Cardinal commenting on his own church, the UGCC.

The very next morning I read this comment from a Catholic...

Re: Grateful for the Eastern Catholicism Forum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote
Quote
Originally Posted by Ignatius 
From everything I've seen, I don't think the Eastern Orthodox are sincerely interested in restoring communion with the Catholic Church.

Seems that if they were sincerely interested they would still be here willing to dialogue.

I had wanted to gently enlighten this individual to the new realities of all the bannings (and in effect, muzzling) of my confreres (they really ARE willing to dialogue, you know...so that is another straw man right there) so I tried to sign in and got this:

Your account has been locked for the following reason:
transgression of forum rules
This change will be lifted: Nov 15, '07, 2:00 am


What rule did I violate?
 
In my last previous post I quoted Lubomyr Husar of the Greek Catholic church, on the subject of an Ukrainian Greek Catholic church!! I was sure that I was within the new guidelines for discourse in that forum.

As it happens I believe there are about nine Orthodox secretly banned or otherwise locked out of the forum, and it appears they are changing moderators.

I understand banning and suspensions, sometimes it has to be done. But this is something different, a whitewash of sorts.

Michael
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 08, 2007, 02:45:19 PM
I'm sure that many there are insecure and really don't know much about the East or their own Church.

I am sad to say a majority of posted threads there reveal alot of poor catechesis within the Catholic Church...

james
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: obadiah on November 08, 2007, 04:00:33 PM
I was banned, I got tired of all the Orthodox bashing by the Romans. It's too bad that they couldn't take the heat. Instead of answering us they just ban all Orthodox. I'm glad to be gone.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 08, 2007, 06:44:28 PM
Quote
Quote
Originally Posted by Ignatius 
From everything I've seen, I don't think the Eastern Orthodox are sincerely interested in restoring communion with the Catholic Church.

Seems that if they were sincerely interested they would still be here willing to dialogue.

What a great moderatorial tactic! Mute and ban posters and then use their silence as evidence that they don't wish to participate! :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 08, 2007, 06:54:04 PM
Just to satisfy my curiosity I made this post this morning there (my only 14th post there in 3 years):
Quote
So, as I understand this now, we in the "Holy Orthodox Catholic Church of the East" (a canonical name of our communion), which has never ceased referring to itself as the "Catholic Church" must now refrain from using the term "Orthodox Catholic" (itself an accommodation to those in the communion of the Church of Rome which also appropriates the name "Catholic Church"). Even "Eastern Orthodox" is a western derived term and technically foreign to us. I guess we could consider ourselves "Catholic Not in Communion with Rome"? Probably not.
To me, our participation here under this new requirement (and home in NCR) is tantamount to our saying that the Communion of Rome is correct and we are wrong. That I cannot do.

Thread immediately closed.

As I suggested to DennyB about a Protestant site:

Shake the dust from one's sandals and move on...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: _Seraphim_ on November 08, 2007, 07:19:34 PM
Shake the dust from one's sandals and move on...


Indeed
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 08, 2007, 11:42:03 PM
I was banned, I got tired of all the Orthodox bashing by the Romans. It's too bad that they couldn't take the heat. Instead of answering us they just ban all Orthodox. I'm glad to be gone.

 Brother Obadiah ....Glad hear from you ,hope your back to the Holy Eastern Orthodox Faith again...We all of us missed you ...again welcome back ...Brother Stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 09, 2007, 12:49:10 AM
All I can say about that forum change is, what a debacle.  The fact that they were banning people but not marking it is completely rediculous.  How can you have Eastern Catholic discussion without Eastern Orthodox discussion simultaneously?

I am glad to see many of the posters here that were over on the other forum.  I hope to see Fr Ambrose.

 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 09, 2007, 01:06:12 AM
He might be here already (under another name, ya' never know).  ;)


My post above there got me permanently banned. Unbelievable, but no big loss. Oh, entire thread disappeared as well.


Welcome, Jimmy.  :)


P.S.: Pittsburgher?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: brittrossiter on November 09, 2007, 11:05:42 AM
Regards to all known posters here - obadiah, stashko, Hesychios, jimmy. Good to see you guys.
And regards to you, orthodoxlurker.  Your posts at the CAF were particularly helpful to me in my journey to Holy Orthodoxy.  (Same goes for you, Hesychios - thanks much!)  Lurker indeed.   ::)

And I agree with you as well.  The RC are indeed misguided and being deceived, but it's a very large leap to go from that premise to the conclusion that the pope and other RC are willing participants in the agenda of the antichrist.   

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 09, 2007, 01:19:21 PM
Greetings to all my brethren.

Slava Isusu Christu!

I must say that the Orthodox posters on CA were instrumental in assisting my discernment process for my conversion from Rome to OCA. Myself and my family were received in September 2007.  Perhaps the moderators observed my conversion and others like myself, and decided that Roman/Eastern Catholics were being proselytized.  I do not know. but I can assure everyone that my journey was well under way aside from CA.  I have not been suspended or banned "yet"...but I am unsure if I will ever post there again. The tactics they used were extremely unChristian.  :'(

Peace and blessings,
Mickey
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papist on November 09, 2007, 01:21:35 PM
I really liked it over there.

But now I am gone, too bad so sad....the Orthodox participants were very good for the most part, and the amateur Rc apologists were unequipped to handle strong defenses from the perspective of Holy Orthodoxy. They basically train themselves to answer protestant objections, so they are not ready to handle real Catholics who disagree with them over the Papacy and certain other doctrinal points. Often they would create straw men by portraying Orthodox as another form of protestant.

Because the Orthodox were usually too savvy, the Rc apologists had a very difficult time dismissing the Orthodox through character assasination or other means, so they had to rely on facts. Rc sources of information are inadequate, actually, and they were often caught off guard by Orthodox interpretations of events and translations of Patristic quotes (to name just two examples). Reliance on sources like the old Catholic Encyclopedia puts most Rc apologists at a significant disadvantage, we would tell them this all the time but as each new crop of gung ho apologists would come in they would have referred back to the same outdated erroneous materials. Even Catholic Answers own materials were often deficient, with errors that should embarass them, but they did not do regular updates or corrections, apparently

I believe the archives (or some of them) are still available for viewing temporarily. Should make interesting reading for anyone so inclined.

I would suggest anyone of a mind to, going over there just to read the archives and copy posts of interest for your files, while they are still available.

Michael

I usually post over there as East and West. I don't think what you name as the problem is the real problem. What was going on was that posters such as Fr. Ambrose did more than just defend Eastern Orthodoxy. They often descended to blatant bashing of the Catholic faith and did so without consequence. Catholics, on the other hand, who defended the Catholic faith well were often disciplined by the moderator. To make matters worse, it had gotten to the point where Catholics were not allowed to articulate the CATHOLIC position that the EO Church is not Catholic in the full sense of the word. It was just strange that the Catholic position was censored and the EO position allowed to be freely expressed on a CAtholic website. Furthermore, there were threads that celebrated people's conversion away from the Catholic Church and to the EO churches. From a Catholic perspective, these people were committing mortal sin and it was being celebrated. Entirely inappropriate for a Catholic web site.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 09, 2007, 01:46:07 PM
I usually post over there as East and West. I don't think what you name as the problem is the real problem. What was going on was that posters such as Fr. Ambrose did more than just defend Eastern Orthodoxy. They often descended to blatant bashing of the Catholic faith and did so without consequence. Catholics, on the other hand, who defended the Catholic faith well were often disciplined by the moderator. To make matters worse, it had gotten to the point where Catholics were not allowed to articulate the CATHOLIC position that the EO Church is not Catholic in the full sense of the word. It was just strange that the Catholic position was censored and the EO position allowed to be freely expressed on a CAtholic website. Furthermore, there were threads that celebrated people's conversion away from the Catholic Church and to the EO churches. From a Catholic perspective, these people were committing mortal sin and it was being celebrated. Entirely inappropriate for a Catholic web site.
Poppycock! The Orthodox posters defended their faith eloquently and the Latins could not bear it. You show your ignorance here as you say that Orthodox "are not Catholic in the full sense of the word." Fr Ambrose was a pillar in defending the true faith. The papal Catholics and many of the moderators could not handle it.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 09, 2007, 02:19:03 PM
As it happens, I just got suspended there!

I quoted a Greek Catholic Cardinal commenting on his own church, the UGCC.

The very next morning I read this comment from a Catholic...

Re: Grateful for the Eastern Catholicism Forum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems that if they were sincerely interested they would still be here willing to dialogue.

I had wanted to gently enlighten this individual to the new realities of all the bannings (and in effect, muzzling) of my confreres (they really ARE willing to dialogue, you know...so that is another straw man right there) so I tried to sign in and got this:

Your account has been locked for the following reason:
transgression of forum rules
This change will be lifted: Nov 15, '07, 2:00 am


What rule did I violate?
 
In my last previous post I quoted Lubomyr Husar of the Greek Catholic church, on the subject of an Ukrainian Greek Catholic church!! I was sure that I was within the new guidelines for discourse in that forum.

As it happens I believe there are about nine Orthodox secretly banned or otherwise locked out of the forum, and it appears they are changing moderators.

I understand banning and suspensions, sometimes it has to be done. But this is something different, a whitewash of sorts.

Michael


BROTHER ....Mine said the same thing at the end it said never ..i just told them  good thing  i was slow in sending in my support donation ,now that this change has happened and there isnt a eastern christian sub-forum for us orthodox i'll never send it in ...thats the reason i got banned.....they sent me several solicitations to my e-mail asking for my support donation.  but failed to tell us, of the forum changes that were comming ... im just woundering how many orthodox   sent in there support donations and still got the  boot ...    .stashko      ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 09, 2007, 02:25:51 PM
Poppycock! The Orthodox posters defended their faith eloquently and the Latins could not bear it. You show your ignorance here as you say that Orthodox "are not Catholic in the full sense of the word." Fr Ambrose was a pillar in defending the true faith. The papal Catholics and many of the moderators could not handle it.

was'nt  east and west  the biggest critic toward us orthodox, and your conversion story on catholic answers forum ...stashko ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 09, 2007, 02:43:50 PM
Glory to Jesus Christ!  Glory to Him Forever!

Greetings to all, especially my former CAF colleagues!!

I, too, was permanently banned from CAF.  I guess it was on the strength (or weakness!) of my last post, and I can't even remember what it said.  Age can be a terrible thing, eh  ;D ?!

For the most part, I really enjoyed the discourse over there, but things did start getting nasty of late.  And, though I hate to cast aspersions, it was mainly from Latin Catholics.  So, what did they do?
Therese Martin put a new twist on an old adage by adopting the postition of "If you can't stand the heat, kick the dog out of the kitchen" !  Guess who the dog was?  

After going through a withdrawal and resentment period, I am now on the road to recovery.  Amazing what renewed prayer can achieve!

It really is amazing how many of us Orthodox got the boot!  And interesting how little activity there is on the new sub-forum now that so many of us are gone, or won't post because of their draconian rules, compared with the now-dead Eastern Christianity sub-forum.

Schism they wanted, schism they got.  How very sad, really!

I look forward to interesting discussions here.

Many blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 09, 2007, 02:46:31 PM
A big welcome to all CAF refugees.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 09, 2007, 02:48:22 PM
Hi Jeff! Hi stashko! Hi Michael! You guys are like family to me.  So good to see you again.  :laugh:
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 09, 2007, 02:52:28 PM
A big welcome to all CAF refugees.

Many, many thanks!

Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 09, 2007, 02:55:03 PM
Hi Jeff! Hi stashko! Hi Michael! You guys are like family to me.  So good to see you again.  :laugh:

Hi Mickey!
Ditto that  ;D ;D

Oh, and by the way, Stashko, I don't believe EWTN and Catholic Answers are affiliated in any way other than sharing the same Latin faith.

God Bless,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ignatius on November 09, 2007, 03:05:35 PM
Sorry to hear all the trouble over there. I still have my account over there!  :laugh:

But it is a little lonely...  :'(
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 09, 2007, 03:07:29 PM
Poppycock! The Orthodox posters defended their faith eloquently and the Latins could not bear it. You show your ignorance here as you say that Orthodox "are not Catholic in the full sense of the word." Fr Ambrose was a pillar in defending the true faith. The papal Catholics and many of the moderators could not handle it.

Hi,

My observation on CA was that it became impossible to answer a non-Orthodox inquiry about theology or Traditions without compromising the rules the Moderator felt were violated.  They wanted us to refraim for using Orthodox Catholic and the word Catholic is it refers to us. We say the Creed each Sunday and to be denied our faith on that forum was to me at least a rejection of our beliefs. 

We did have some very good debators on CA and I think they held up to most if not all questions posed to them very well.  It wasnt our goal to convert anyone because that was part of the forum's rules but as chance always has it, those who were interested in our ancient faith began to investigate our faith and read up on things and found out that we are the Church as instituted by Our Lord Jesus Christ. 

The previous moderator was very understanding and maybe too understanding since he was quickly replaced by one who made liberal use of the banning feature there. I had on occassions been the recipient of a few suspensions, which I deserved, but I felt that the old moderator was more than fair to us Orthodox Catholic Christians.

JoeS   8)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 09, 2007, 03:45:38 PM
To the refugees,

Well, I hope you all find a "safe haven" to interact here.  As with any site on the internet we have our kooks, but otherwise people are pretty good on OC.net. 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 09, 2007, 03:51:54 PM
Please define the term "kooks" 

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 09, 2007, 03:58:01 PM
Hi,

My observation on CA was that it became impossible to answer a non-Orthodox inquiry about theology or Traditions without compromising the rules the Moderator felt were violated.  They wanted us to refraim for using Orthodox Catholic and the word Catholic is it refers to us. We say the Creed each Sunday and to be denied our faith on that forum was to me at least a rejection of our beliefs. 

We did have some very good debators on CA and I think they held up to most if not all questions posed to them very well.  It wasnt our goal to convert anyone because that was part of the forum's rules but as chance always has it, those who were interested in our ancient faith began to investigate our faith and read up on things and found out that we are the Church as instituted by Our Lord Jesus Christ. 

The previous moderator was very understanding and maybe too understanding since he was quickly replaced by one who made liberal use of the banning feature there. I had on occassions been the recipient of a few suspensions, which I deserved, but I felt that the old moderator was more than fair to us Orthodox Catholic Christians.

JoeS   8)

Yes, Joe was pretty fair.  Therese, on the other hand.........Suffice it to say that after 5 emails the only explanation I ever got for my account being frozen was "You violated the forum rules".  And I don't think I said anything that "bad", either.  Well, I guess I must have, eh?

Oh well, it's their football, and if they want to take it home and play with it by themselves, they have that right.  What would have been nice, not to mention Christian, would have been to give a little warning about things, and a little latitude, at least in the beginning.

What's done is done, however.  We can but pray for them.

Blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papist on November 09, 2007, 04:01:08 PM
Poppycock! The Orthodox posters defended their faith eloquently and the Latins could not bear it. You show your ignorance here as you say that Orthodox "are not Catholic in the full sense of the word." Fr Ambrose was a pillar in defending the true faith. The papal Catholics and many of the moderators could not handle it.
Using the word Poppycock doesn't make what you are saying true. The fact is that Joe, the moderator constantly allowed the EOs to say whatever they wanted without consequence, while punishing Catholics for defending the Catholic faith. You show your ignorance in that you will not even admitt this when it is blatant.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 09, 2007, 04:11:09 PM
Using the word Poppycock doesn't make what you are saying true. The fact is that Joe, the moderator constantly allowed the EOs to say whatever they wanted without consequence, while punishing Catholics for defending the Catholic faith. You show your ignorance in that you will not even admitt this when it is blatant.

Ahhh, here we go...........

I'm sure Mickey will have something to say about this, but I'll pipe in with my 2-cents worth.

Please back your claim up with facts.  I think the only Latin Catholics that were "punished" were punished, not for defending their faith, but for how they did that.  And how do you know that no Orthodox suffered, as you say, "consequences"?

Blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 09, 2007, 04:16:32 PM
Noticing that there are quite a few new members, and many of y'all identifying yourselves as former CA members, I thought I'd extend a welcome from the moderator team here at OC.net.

We're happy to have you all as a part of our wonderful board.  Please feel free to Private Message myself or any other members of the Admin/Mod team with any questions that you have.

I thought I'd reference a few information threads that would be useful to read before "getting into the nitty-gritty."

Posting Policy
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10945.0.html

There are other such useful threads stickied at the top of Board News.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/board,1.0.html

If you're interested in Political discussion, or in polemical discussion between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox, please PM FrChris (the board Administrator) and he'll add you to the Private Forums list.

As with most online forums, check out the sticky threads at the top of each board for area-specific guidelines/rules.

Finally, since you're coming from a forum with sections for RC/EC/OC, I just want to let you know that we avoid the word "Uniate" here on OC.net.  That word paves a short road to a warning.

Thank you all for joining us here, and I pray that you find it a hospitable place and a good location for challenging and edifying discussion!

Cleveland
Global Moderator
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 09, 2007, 04:20:10 PM
Using the word Poppycock doesn't make what you are saying true. The fact is that Joe, the moderator constantly allowed the EOs to say whatever they wanted without consequence, while punishing Catholics for defending the Catholic faith. You show your ignorance in that you will not even admitt this when it is blatant.

Now we need to be fair here.  There were a few on the Catholic side who got away a lot in polemics without the moderator getting on them as well.  No sense in beating ourselves up here but we as Orthodox Catholics had a dickens of a time answering questions about our faith and having someone, not all, but some come in a say that we were either proselytizing, evangelizing or using ad homonym remarks.  If an inquirer was interested in Orthodoxy all he had to do was to read the books that we posted and he or she could make up their own minds which direction they would want to go in.

The blame belongs on both sides. There was plenty of accusations to go around many times.

If you start a forum and include a forum section that would take an opposite view of what the Moderators would have, you have to know that there will be times in which the debate becomes a little warm.  I feel that the majority of Orthodox posters were courteous and respectful of the terms that they agreed to when they became members.  Much the same way here. We have a section where non-Orthodox Christians can exchange ideas, answers, and suggestions and hopefully if anyone is at a point that would jeopardize his or her good standing the moderator would give adequate warnings.  I'm sure this is the case here. I was perplexed about my requests for answers and was completely ignored with no explanation of why I was banned forever.

Just a simple answer to why we were left go would have been nice, that's all.

JoeS :-[
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 09, 2007, 04:28:29 PM
Now we need to be fair here.  There were a few on the Catholic side who got away a lot in polemics without the moderator getting on them as well.  No sense in beating ourselves up here but we as Orthodox Catholics had a dickens of a time answering questions about our faith and having someone, not all, but some come in a say that we were either proselytizing, evangelizing or using ad homonym remarks.  If an inquirer was interested in Orthodoxy all he had to do was to read the books that we posted and he or she could make up their own minds which direction they would want to go in.

The blame belongs on both sides. There was plenty of accusations to go around many times.

If you start a forum and include a forum section that would take an opposite view of what the Moderators would have, you have to know that there will be times in which the debate becomes a little warm.  I feel that the majority of Orthodox posters were courteous and respectful of the terms that they agreed to when they became members.  Much the same way here. We have a section where non-Orthodox Christians can exchange ideas, answers, and suggestions and hopefully if anyone is at a point that would jeopardize his or her good standing the moderator would give adequate warnings.  I'm sure this is the case here. I was perplexed about my requests for answers and was completely ignored with no explanation of why I was banned forever.

Just a simple answer to why we were left go would have been nice, that's all.

JoeS :-[

Well put, Joe!

Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 09, 2007, 04:39:23 PM
The polemical discussion promulgated by pathofsolitude has been split into its own thread:

"Catholicism Bad, Orthodoxy Good, and other polemical assertions"
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13309.0.html

- Cleveland, Global Moderator
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: lubeltri on November 09, 2007, 04:52:52 PM
Instead of appointing yourselves Grand Apologist and engaging in inter-Christian rat-a-tat-tat, why not pray and fast do some Lectio Divina? Do you think Christ is delighted by your focus on "proving" the other guy wrong? Is that what your faith is about? Humility---a virtue good to remember for all of us.




{Edited title} Αριστοκλής
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 09, 2007, 05:14:30 PM
Instead of appointing yourselves Grand Apologist and engaging in inter-Christian rat-a-tat-tat, why not pray and fast do some Lectio Divina? Do you think Christ is delighted by your focus on "proving" the other guy wrong? Is that what your faith is about? Humility---a virtue good to remember for all of us.




{Edited title} Αριστοκλής

Funny thing, it wasnt an issue of who was right or wrong so much as whatever answer we gave it was seen as going overboard as far as the forum moderator was concerned.  We had to tow the line and we had to (in the final days) walk literally on eggs not to 'offend' even the most sensitive of posters there. And by offense I mean, those answers that were hard for the average Roman Catholic to answer.  We literally had to suppress our Orthodoxy to satisfy Romans so that we stay on the forum.  Well, I stated quite frankly that I felt like a puppet and to remain on this forum with my hands ties behind me wasnt going to work for me. So, the banning was in a way, a good thing vs. my embaracing my faith.

JoeS
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 09, 2007, 05:15:45 PM
Instead of appointing yourselves Grand Apologist and engaging in inter-Christian rat-a-tat-tat, why not pray and fast do some Lectio Divina? Do you think Christ is delighted by your focus on "proving" the other guy wrong? Is that what your faith is about? Humility---a virtue good to remember for all of us.

 ???

Joe beat me to it with his well-put (again!), reply.  (Hence this modification) 

Blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 09, 2007, 05:19:23 PM
???

Chuckle...don't be dismayed, Ziggernaut, we have some RC's here, too. I knew lubeltri was itching to say something.  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 09, 2007, 05:28:10 PM
...They often descended to blatant bashing of the Catholic faith and did so without consequence.
There is a difference between answering an honest question honestly and bashing. I myself answered without hesitation many times about things I thought were heretical in RC teaching, but that was the only way to answer those questions, frankly and honestly. Some people were offended, but it was not bashing. Besides, there we were in an Eastern Christian section being asked what we thought of western Christian theology.

I believe that you may be now witnessing the same problem with some of your Eastern Catholic faithful as you had with Orthodox. They did not have to answer these direct questions before, because the Orthodox would be there to take them.

The theology is a bit different, and for most of the east the liturgy is reflective of that theology. Any eastern Catholic who follows a liturgy faithful to the tradition could have cognitive dissonance if they pay any attention at all. The liturgy does not support Latin theology.

Most (idealistic, I should add) Roman Catholics want to believe that there are two (or more, I suppose) valid expressions of just one Truth: the Latin expression and whatever else is in communion with Rome. Eastern Catholics are more or less expected to believe it (and Orthodox don’t believe it). But that concept reduces the expression (basically liturgical/devotional) to a superficiality, just a veneer of one thing over something else.

In other words, RC often make a point of emphasizing Rome’s concessions to the easterners, ALLOWING them their liturgy, and PERMITTING them to omit the Filioque. But what is implied is that they must be interiorly Latin, because all of the de Fide definitions are composed with a Latin understanding. It’s something difficult for RC to grasp, I think. Like a fish in water doesn’t realize it is in water, or we forget about gravity and the air we breathe…it is so ubiquitous we don’t really see it.

Eastern Christian MUST accept Latin theology as true, even if they themselves do not understand it, they must make a mental assent to it! The same is not expected of Latin Christians, they are not expected to make a mental assent to eastern theology even though Roma allows eastern churches to teach it as valid theology. Frequently, one will find Latin polemicists blowing in, attacking eastern theology. Theoretically they really cannot do that without attacking the official theology of the Papacy over all, but they feel very comfortable doing it.

All you need to do to verify this theology is accepted by Rome is to obtain a copy of eastern Catholic catechisms. There are several out there.

So this is the dilemma. For easterners the theology is treated like a superficiality. But when Eastern Catholics look at Latin theology as ALSO a superficiality, Latins get very upset, and the de Fide’s start rolling off the keyboards.
Catholics, on the other hand, who defended the Catholic faith well were often disciplined by the moderator.
I don’t doubt the vigorous defense of Catholics with a Latin understanding, I witnessed it, but from what I saw it was very often demeaning polemics rather than clever or accurate argumentation. Should I say ‘usually’ calculated to pick a fight? That seemed the usual to me.

But these same RC (mostly RC) were swamping the Eastern Catholics in their contention with the Orthodox. Eastern Catholics for the most part believe what Orthodox believe, except that they have this desire to be in communion with Rome. Essentially they have bought into the argument that it is preferable to be in communion with Rome, and are struggling to stay there, but the Latins (and like-minded) are making acceptance of Latin theological constructs a litmus test for their catholicity. They are not being respected for who they are and where they come from. By referencing Ott and setting that as the standard you are pushing them out. A lot of the moderation had to have this in mind.

I think the moderator by and large wanted to create a space for EC and Orthodox to come together, in the interests of the stated ecumenical aims of the late Pope JP II. I was present on the CAF forums when the concept was first floated and that was a strong argument at the time. On the other hand some (many) Latin’s were looking for a place to debate Orthodox (or discredit them, as rivals), and did not give a *hoot about bridge building between EC and OC. By concentrating all eastern topics in that one place it was like fish in a barrel: the EC were ghettoized to some extent, and the Orthodox were like the targets at a carnival shooting gallery. The attacks against the Orthodox and the Orthodox responses left the EC as an almost overlooked bunch. The moderator kept trying (as best as I can tell) to keep the dialogue with Orthodox open and protect the eastern theology (which, as I say, is valid per the RC church).

Ideally (from the RC point of view) the Catholic apologists should have been able to kick but in there. The fact that they did not cannot be blamed on the moderation, the moderator doesn’t compose posts.
To make matters worse, it had gotten to the point where Catholics were not allowed to articulate the CATHOLIC position that the EO Church is not Catholic in the full sense of the word.
I don’t doubt that this is the longstanding Roman Catholic position. It is not the position of most Eastern Catholic churches, who see their own origins and legitimacy in these same Orthodox churches. The (still living at the time) Pope John Paul II was reaching out to the east, and calling eastern Christians non-Catholic is a deep insult to their Faith. Let there be no mistake about it, Eastern Orthodox-Catholics do not want to be mistaken for Roman Catholics by any stretch of the imagination, but the Roman Catholic Church simply does not have the ability to close the canon on who the Orthodox are, it is not an exclusive club for Papists regardless of what anyone thinks. The moderator tried very hard to respect all points of view in the interest of open dialogue, I am sure that in high level dialogues with the Papacy the Orthodox can call themselves Catholic without a objection.

Theoretically you must admit (I hope) that if the Orthodox church was Catholic before the schism, and it has not changed, it is still Catholic by those same first millennium standards.
It was just strange that the Catholic position was censored and the EO position allowed to be freely expressed on a Catholic website.
I disagree, I don’t believe that to be the case at all, and I was a member there for years. You should provide examples of moderation that illustrates that. Perhaps you are identifying the Latin Catholic position with the ‘Catholic’ position.
Furthermore, there were threads that celebrated people's conversion away from the Catholic Church and to the EO churches.
That is unfortunate. I always tried to discourage that, to the point of sending PM’s. I even encouraged one person to pull down her post, if there was still time, but to no avail. Simple announcements are OK I think, but not long celebratory threads.

I felt it was inappropriate insofar as we were guests. The longtime posters would keep their responses muted but many of the newer (and I suppose, younger) posters went a little extreme in their happiness for the person. I sometimes wish the moderator had removed such threads or closed them quickly, but that might have simply brought more attention to the phenomena.

But the reality is that this openness generated a lot of goodwill for CAF and the Roman Catholic church as well. Perhaps that is hard to see from where you stand. I know a great many Protestants chose to become RC as well, even after lurking around the EC area, but the normal place to announce a conversion to Latin Christianity was elsewhere. It’s anyone’s guess as to whether this was ultimately a plus or a minus for CAF, but the financial contributors clearly were irked by it.

The fact that we were dialoging at the level we were for as long a time as we did was a great achievement I don’t think will be repeated any time soon.
From a Catholic perspective, these people were committing mortal sin and it was being celebrated.
That is only one of several possible conclusions one could arrive at from a ‘Catholic’ perspective.

Michael


*Minor word edit
We understand your hurt feelings over this apparent rough treatment but please temper your words as if you were in church.
Thanks,  Αριστοκλής

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 09, 2007, 05:33:36 PM
Chuckle...don't be dismayed, Ziggernaut, we have some RC's here, too. I knew lubeltri was itching to say something.  ;)

Thanks!   ;D I wasn't really dismayed, just a little curious about where he's coming from.  Now I know.  I've nothing against, RC's.  Just don't want to be one, especially after coming home to Holy Orthodoxy from Byzantine Catholicism  ;)!

Blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: lubeltri on November 09, 2007, 05:43:12 PM
Thanks!   ;D I wasn't really dismayed, just a little curious about where he's coming from.  Now I know.  I've nothing against, RC's.  Just don't want to be one, especially after coming home to Holy Orthodoxy from Byzantine Catholicism  ;)!

Blessings,
Jeff

If any Catholics from that Eastern Christian forum/war zone had come over here, my comment would have been directed at them too.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 09, 2007, 05:47:32 PM
If any Catholics from that Eastern Christian forum/war zone had come over here, my comment would have been directed at them too.

Glad to hear it  :)!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 10, 2007, 12:31:12 AM

I was formerly a regular participant on the Catholic Answers "Eastern Christianity" forum.  I was never proselytized there, but what I did learn from the Orthodox posters ultimately caused me to begin my own inquiry and let me to the Holy Orthodox church

This is a very unfortunate development.


That was the crux of their difficulty with us.  The answers from the EO's were so radiant and accurate that no proselytization was needed - Fr. Ambrose was getting convert after convert from Rome to the EOC, and there simply was NO effective counter - EVERY counter would get erased in such a good way that there was no come-back...  And they finally just decided that they were NOT paying money for their board to LOSE their faithful, and they got rid of the EOs...

And they did it ruthlessly, and dishonestly...  Normally, when someone is banned, the word banned shows up under their name - And 8 or so of us were banned...  BUT, the admin's did not want the RECORD TO SHOW that they had banned the EO posters, so they simply disabled our ability to post, and when we would try, we were told in a message pop-up that our posting priveleges were suspended, and would be reinstated/never.

Now by that means, when you look at anyone's name who is barred, it simply shows that they are a regular member, or in my case, a senior member, and no indication of impaired status, which is a lie...  The idea being to COVER UP their actions so as to protect themselves from the sense of fairness that normal RC posters [and any other decent human beings] would have - It would probably have caused a huge uproar to have let be known what they had done to the other Catholics there...

So they concealed their heinous deed behind lies and misrepresentations...  And in this, the true nature of the authoritarianism of their organization, the RCC, comes out...  Had a similar "problem" occurred on an Orthodox board, it would NOT have been concealed had they thrown the bums out, but in fact, better apologists would have been found to defend the Faith in the face of a successful onslaught - And if not forthcoming, maybe we would become Latinized!!  [Just kidding!]  And this indeed is what was happening there, and they had no other cure than what they did...  And by doing it, they damned themselves...

To me, it was an amazing event, and frees me up considerably for the work of our newly moved mission...

So...  Glory to God in ALL Things!

Reader Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 10, 2007, 12:58:25 AM

 The fact is that Joe, the moderator constantly allowed the EOs to say whatever they wanted without consequence, while punishing Catholics for defending the Catholic faith. You show your ignorance in that you will not even admit this when it is blatant.
[/size]

Whining about Joe, a Roman Catholic moderator, will not help your case - I frequently got suspended for 3-5 days by him for minor miscreances, and thanked him for them...  But the simple fact is that the RC arguments were failing, and RCs were converting to Eastern Orthodoxy as a result, with no proselytizing, and the admins had to do something, because those supporting the forum were seeing their dollars going to the detriment of Rome because of the presence of the EO posters there...

And the RCs there want to have their way with the discussions, and they could not do so with us throwing strikes at them from right field as well as the pitcher's mound...  They wanted to lord it over the Church that birthed them, and when they found out that they were incapable of doing so, they dishonestly threw them out...  That's the truth...

Your complaint about Joe, even if true, falls flat because if THAT were the ONLY problem, then a simple Mod switch would have sufficed...  But THAT did NOT happen, you see...  There was a great purgation of ALL THE OPPOSITION - And that was done because it was TOO EFFECTIVE and the RC's had NO ANSWERS on the Catholic ANSWER Forum...

It is embarrassing, actually...

And what was telling, regarding the corruption of the authoritarian phronema, was the dishonesty by which it was done...  It is this that convicted the RC board admin's in this action...  Where the bannings were concealed...

Reader Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: FrChris on November 10, 2007, 08:24:43 AM
To all those identifying themselves as former CA Posters...

Blessings of the Lord to you!

I wanted to take this opportunity to second Cleveland's message and affirm the sentiments of many others here who have not posted: a very warm welcome is extended to you!

My understanding is that the arguments on that board could not be archived or preserved in some way? That is a shame; I would have liked to have had these arguments preserved in some way as monuments to free speech. Is there any way to have an account set up to set the record straight?

Anyway, my Internet access has been spotty lately, but I did want to let you folks know you're more than welcome here, and I look forward to reading many more of your contributions!

+Fr Chris
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: brittrossiter on November 10, 2007, 09:55:03 AM
That was the crux of their difficulty with us.  The answers from the EO's were so radiant and accurate that no proselytization was needed - Fr. Ambrose was getting convert after convert from Rome to the EOC, and there simply was NO effective counter - EVERY counter would get erased in such a good way that there was no come-back...  And they finally just decided that they were NOT paying money for their board to LOSE their faithful, and they got rid of the EOs...
Then I count myself fortunate and blessed to have stumbled across the CAF forums when I did.  I had only been reading/posting there for a couple of months.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 10, 2007, 02:56:22 PM
This was a case where the Roman Catholic phronema was flushed out from its hiding places and into the open for all to see...  [Except the rest of their List...  It was these that it was designed to protect.]  The admin's took a long look, over several weeks and maybe even more than a month, and then decided what to do about the "problem"...  And it was classic, and deserves our understanding...  What they SAW was an attack upon their Church, and at that point, the gloves came off, and it was a fight to win and expel the attack at any cost...  And to protect their Church and her faithful...  Nothing mattered except to neutralize what they thought of as an attack...  Yes, we wielded some sticks and whips, and stung them sorely, with the left hand, but the right hand of blessing was always there for consolation, even in the midst of a reprimand for their ecclesial miscreance...  But all this was invisible to them, and all they could see was their Church under attack and getting creamed, and the call to the barricades was all that mattered...

This is the only way to understand, in a compassionate way, their decision to not only DO a despicable thing, but to then in a cowardly fashion to cover it up...  They were defending against an attack upon the Roman Church, which is holy and beloved of them, and that is ALL that they were doing in their minds...  They had no grasp of the wrongdoing of their Church, nor of their own error in apologetics for her...  And it was in both these that they were ever confronted by the Orthodox there...  When discussions became merely scholastic ramblings into definitions and terms, they would be reminded that their role in the schism from the Church is what is at stake, and must be faced honestly and forthrightly, and that retreat into definitions, or into Papal infallibility, or the Authority of Rome over all Christendom, was no argument at all, and but confirmed their Orthodox adversaries, who were patiently being truthful with them and insisting that only Rome's full confession and repentance from Her prodigality would heal the wounds of Her schism...

And this they took to be ONLY an ATTACK upon Christ's Body, the Roman Catholic Church...  I am beginning to understand Paul's angst for Judaism and her hardness of heart...  The Romans there could only accuse us of hate mongering and Catholic bashing...  And when they had been trounced enough, they got rid of us, and the moderator, Joe Monahan [Pray for him] who made sure that our voices, maybe 10 in all, were heard in this List of many many thousands of RC's...

It is this western phronema, the one that compartmentalizes the soul, that enables a person to be divided within himself utterly, that came forth...  They were willing to suppress the truth, cover up their actions, and now censor by moderator all posts in the "new" forum - Yes - They read the posts, and change the words, and then post them in the sanitized versions of the mod's now, so that nothing can come out that will make them look like what they really are, or disclose what they really are doing - It is this phronema, authoritarian and power oriented, defending their church, that came forth...  It is the same phronema that enabled child molesting priests to establish themselves in their Church, KNOWING that they would be protected BY such people as these...

In a word, it was ugly and pathetic and wrong...

And nobody got killed...

We didn't even have to sneak Fr. Ambrose out of town to avoid his capture! [like we did with St. Mark of Ephesus!]

I do not think that we will see the Papist back here arguing his "case"...  Because he knows that he will NOT be trreated like HIS board treated the Orthodox there...  Indeed, I admire him for trying, but even he is starting to see what went down, and the evil of it...  Glory to God!

And thank-you to all on this board for the place of refuge...

"And after the temptations of Satan, the angels ministered unto Him..." [My paraphrase...]

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 10, 2007, 03:25:50 PM
It appears that the archive ECF has vanished over at CAF...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: lubeltri on November 10, 2007, 03:28:37 PM
Heavens to Murgatroyd, it's only a website. Don't get so dramatic.  ::)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 10, 2007, 03:54:50 PM
To all those identifying themselves as former CA Posters...

Blessings of the Lord to you!

Thank-you, Fr. Chris...  +

Quote
I wanted to take this opportunity to second Cleveland's message and affirm the sentiments of many others here who have not posted: a very warm welcome is extended to you!

What a different "feel" here...!! But a person CAN get used to the harsh environs of enemy territory!  :)

Quote
My understanding is that the arguments on that board could not be archived or preserved in some way? That is a shame; I would have liked to have had these arguments preserved in some way as monuments to free speech. Is there any way to have an account set up to set the record straight?

Well, I went and tried to search for my posts, and the admin's seem to have been busy sanitizing the crime scene - I can only find my posts on the boards that are NOT the Eastern Christianity boards...  And that is where they all were - To find ALL my posts, only 51 now show, and those will probably be deleted as well...  They seem to be using a pretty strong disinfectant! ;)  I fear they may have excised the entire suspended forum...

Reminds me of the story of Fr. Arsenii being sent to that camp where the entire record of a person's existence is thrown into the fire, so that no trace of him exists any more, because he is going to that camp to die, and we don't want any basis for embarrassing questions!

So I went and looked up Fr. Ambrose threads, all of them, and NONE are from the Eastern Christianity forum...  So it looks like that forum has been excised...

Arsenios

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 10, 2007, 04:20:32 PM
Heavens to Murgatroyd  lubeltri, are you that old to use this ? This is from back in my day
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: lubeltri on November 10, 2007, 05:17:11 PM
Heavens to Murgatroyd  lubeltri, are you that old to use this ? This is from back in my day

No, I'm not that old to use it except with tongue in cheek.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 10, 2007, 05:23:42 PM
It appears that the archive ECF has vanished over at CAF...

Yes, the cover-up continues. Good thing we'll document the activity here. Maybe Robert can even add some 'catholic answers' META tags to us, hehe...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 10, 2007, 05:24:12 PM
Heavens to Murgatroyd, it's only a website. Don't get so dramatic.  ::)

Father[?] Lubeltri, it was a dramatic event, and yes, it is only a website, where they boast:

Here you can join over 65,000 members from around the world
discussing all things Catholic.
Membership is open to all,
Catholic and non-Catholic alike,
who seek the Truth with Charity.


And I guess that I would say to you that such a thing COULD NOT happen here, on this site, because it is utterly foreign to the EO phronema...  If, for instance, the Papist were to change, and become abusive and insulting, he would not be excised with all his posts, which is what has happened to Fr. Ambrose and all the other Orthodox posters, together with the whole forum of Eastern Christianity...  I mean, such a thing is SO not Orthodox...  Our squabbles and spats can and do get mean spirited, nasty and personal, but they are out in the open with air and light around them...  But this business of concealing things that the CAF admin's did, of establishing a realm of darkness in cyber-technology from which they could strike out without being seen, and not being willing to stand in what they do, is what authoritarian dictators do all the time, and is reflective of an authoritarian phronema, which the RC members had been assuring the Orthodox was no longer the way Rome is any more...  They want to reach out to their brothers, they said...  And embrace them...  And love them in Christ...  Until they discover that their brothers are seeing them as unrepentant schismatics...  And then they revert to type...

The more things change, the more they remain the same...

But at least some made it out...

Arsenios

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 10, 2007, 06:02:20 PM
And regards to you, orthodoxlurker.  Your posts at the CAF were particularly helpful to me in my journey to Holy Orthodoxy.  (Same goes for you, Hesychios - thanks much!)

Wow! Keep me humbled, brother, I'm a sinner. I have no clue what in my posts could make such an impression on you.

But I'm so happy for you.

BTW, thanks for welcome to all.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 10, 2007, 06:04:22 PM
It appears that the archive ECF has vanished over at CAF...

Alas it is!

I'm so sad. So many so informative posts about several very important subjects!

Alas!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 10, 2007, 06:09:45 PM
It appears that the archive ECF has vanished over at CAF...
Oh, that explains it. I read the Admin's message that the forum had been archived and assumed they meant with the other archived threads. Clearly they meant "archived in the bin"! :D
Changing history......Ah, there's nothing new under the sun is there?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 10, 2007, 06:13:19 PM
Secret archives of the Cyber-Vatican...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 10, 2007, 06:13:46 PM
It appears that the archive ECF has vanished over at CAF...
So many excellent posts.

Three years of Fr Ambrose's answers.

Barbarians.

I'm so sad.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 10, 2007, 06:27:03 PM
So many excellent posts.

Three years of Fr Ambrose's answers.

Barbarians.

I'm so sad.
I suppose if you can't stand the heat, get rid of the kitchen! :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 10, 2007, 08:35:49 PM

I suppose if you can't stand the heat, get rid of the kitchen! :D
RFLOL!  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 10, 2007, 08:48:32 PM
It appears that the archive ECF has vanished over at CAF...
You are right!...I wouldn't have believed it until you mentioned it.

I wouldn't have bothered to look for it, but it was there yesterday: ECF: 2007. They have archived some of the most mundane stuff there, but not the Eastern Christianity experiment.

I have no idea how much was in it, but I would have to guess at least 80,000 posts (could have been 180,000). Father A can be credited with 15,000 and I had almost 5,000. Mickey had around 7,000, I would guess.

I wonder why they felt compelled to take that step, really.

Michael

MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 10, 2007, 09:15:15 PM
You are right!...I wouldn't have believed it until you mentioned it.

I wouldn't have bothered to look for it, but it was there yesterday: ECF: 2007. They have archived some of the most mundane stuff there, but not the Eastern Christianity experiment.

I have no idea how much was in it, but I would have to guess at least 80,000 posts (could have been 180,000). Father A can be credited with 15,000 and I had almost 5,000. Mickey had around 7,000, I would guess.

I wonder why they felt compelled to take that step, really.

Michael

MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark...

I had 4,400 posts I can say bye bye to.

JoeS
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 10, 2007, 10:55:50 PM
The Eastern Catholic Section is anemic...



Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 11, 2007, 09:17:07 AM
The Eastern Catholic Section is anemic...

Certainly part of their intentions.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: yeshua on November 11, 2007, 08:33:15 PM
Peace,

Hello everyone, I am a former Eastern Christianity poster over at CAF, a current poster in the Eastern Catholicism board, and always a supporter and friend of Holy Orthodoxy. I hope to continue the dialogue (and friendships) I had over at CAF here, if at  all possible.

On a personal note, I want to express my disgust over what happened at CAF, and my continued respect and admiration to my Orthodox brothers and sisters who were treated with nothing that resembled Christian charity. This sinful Maronite is still a loving friend, and I do my best to upkeep the respect and reverence Holy Orthodoxy deserves in that forum. Please know I struggle now to keep my faith and tradition respectable amongst the field of Latins and Latinized Eastern and Oriental Catholics. I don't have the luxury of the Orthodox support like last time, but would not be able to keep a firm stance were it not for those Orthodox friends who supported me.

I am still discerning my involvement over at CAF, for now, posting when I can, squashing any disrespect I see towards Eastern Catholics (whether they are Orthodox are Unia).

Peace and God Bless!

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 11, 2007, 08:42:38 PM
The Eastern Catholic Section is anemic...





Of course it is.  There are only about 10 of us eastern Catholics there.  But a few of my friends have been there posting so they might be good for the defense.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 11, 2007, 08:57:34 PM
I'm afraid that the NWO Catholics will dominate that board...like everything elsewhere
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 11, 2007, 09:01:25 PM
I'm afraid that the NWO Catholics will dominate that board...like everything elsewhere

What does NWO stand for?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 11, 2007, 10:12:20 PM
Of course it is.  There are only about 10 of us eastern Catholics there.  But a few of my friends have been there posting so they might be good for the defense.


Brother Jimmy ..The catholic answers forum may keep a few token orthodox posters ,  i've noticed brother Isa is there ,,Forever Adam ,,stMark...and a few others...if there going to last God only knows.....stashko ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 11, 2007, 10:16:17 PM
New World Order...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 11, 2007, 10:26:20 PM
Greetings all,

I've lurked here at OC.net before for a year or so but never registered until now. I really only read the EC forum at CAF, and now it and its best posters are all gone. Since everyone seemed to make their way to OC.net, I look forward to conversing with you all here.  :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 11, 2007, 10:30:08 PM
Greetings all,

I've lurked here at OC.net before for a year or so but never registered until now. I really only read the EC forum at CAF, and now it and its best posters are all gone. Since everyone seemed to make their way to OC.net, I look forward to conversing with you all here.  :)

The feeling is mutual, I'm sure!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 11, 2007, 11:01:58 PM
Hello,

Another CAF poster. I posted there as JMJ_coder. I too think it is bad that they reformatted the forum.

One of the problems over there was there was a handful of Orthodox and Catholics who derailed thread after thread with attacks, both toward each others Faith and each other personally. It got to be that it was almost expected that a thread would be hijacked and no useful information could be exchanged.

They said to move Catholic-Orthodox dialogue to the non-Catholic and Apologetics forums, but it seems most of the Orthodox posters are no longer with us.

It's also sad that the archive of it is gone - and I can't find it under my subscribed threads. That's is the most saddening news as I had some good posts that I wanted to save. I wish they would have warned me so I could have copied them to disk.

Hopeful the same kind of environment (excluding the hijacking and attacking) can be fostered here. I really loved dialogueing with my Eastern brethren. Having to look up patristic texts and conciliar documents is very informative. It really helped to confirm me in my Faith, and no matter what happens with the forums, they can't take that away.

Anyway, I hope to continue the dialogue here - though I am still pretty pressed at the moment for time with school (about 4 more weeks in the semester).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 11, 2007, 11:20:33 PM

Brother Jimmy ..The catholic answers forum may keep a few token orthodox posters ,  i've noticed brother Isa is there ,,Forever Adam ,,stMark...and a few others...if there going to last God only knows.....stashko ;D

I can tell you that StMarkEofE was one of the first to get banned forever. I know this first hand.

JoeS(StMarkEofE)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 11, 2007, 11:24:03 PM
Now we are the ones going out on a limb entering the 'enemy' territory.  :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 11, 2007, 11:33:18 PM
I see that all the former EC posters, including Catholics are now coming to post over here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 11, 2007, 11:37:12 PM
I can tell you that StMarkEofE was one of the first to get banned forever. I know this first hand.

JoeS(StMarkEofE)

I never knew you were the same fellow. I was always impressed with your 'work' over there.

Funny thing for me...I only joined there a couple years ago at the request of a member here who wanted some backup over there for our use of "Orthodox Catholic" nomenclature.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Catholig on November 11, 2007, 11:45:16 PM
Hey Everyone, I post over at CAF, but came over here from a link on the new Eastern Catholicism forum. I just wanted to suggest - since I never was part of the thing at the Eastern Christianity forum that it would be interesting to post some thread similar to those (with the exception of any personal attacks) on here. I would be interested in seeing these apologetic arguments that are so powerful that no Latin could answer them.

Catholig
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 11, 2007, 11:59:13 PM
"A" thread? <chuckle>

Take a few 'minutes' and peruse the 'Orthodox-Catholic Discussion' boards here. You'll find plenty; IIRC, the "Thou Art Peter' thread was a quite memorable.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 12, 2007, 12:09:35 AM
Now we are the ones going out on a limb entering the 'enemy' territory.  :)

The limb is strong, and the enemies don't shoot (well, at least the sane ones don't shoot much)... :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jetavan on November 12, 2007, 12:36:38 AM
So many excellent posts.

Three years of Fr Ambrose's answers.

Barbarians.

I'm so sad.

And if I remember correctly, Fr Ambrose had 18,997 posts. Closing down the EC forum was simply a diversionary tactic to the real motive: preventing Fr Ambrose from reaching 19,000 posts! ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paisius on November 12, 2007, 12:37:41 AM
I'm one of those who were banned from CAF. No explantion was given and the ban is permanent.

Perhaps I can find a new home here......


Your unworthy servant
Paisius
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 12:45:24 AM
Just to be brief for starters:

Obadiah, my post in the ECath forum saying I was glad to see you back is the only one I'm posting there (though I can't say I was totally happy with the going out with a blaze you did).  Glad to have you back.

Yes, I'm still around on CAF, but I will only post in Apologetics or Non-Catholic [sic] Religions.

Glad, and touched, that not only Easterners (Yashua and Jimmy continue the good fight on the replacement forum) under Rome, but also Latins have come here.  I for one won't be sawing their limb off.

When I first started posting at CAF (a mere three months ago) I got a PM, to a PM I sent to a posting about how liberal the Latins were in contrast to the Orthodox:

"I'm not sure I remember the site address, but I think it's orthdoxchristianity.net. Moreover, they were not so bold as to make what I said a public policy, but it was the way the moderator handled the forum.

On that forum if a Catholic was thinking of converting to Orthodoxy, a Catholic was not permitted to argue against it, but the Orthodox were allowed to encourage it. On the Catholic Answers forum both sides may speak in such instances.

At one point I was told by the moderator that if I wanted to state my views regarding doctrine that I was required to preface it with a phrase like "in my opinion." There was no such requirement for Orthodox posters.

Moreover, while the Catholic posters were required to walk on eggshells, the Orthodox posters were permitted to be as rude as they wanted to be; and some of them (not all, by any means) took full advantage of that, even to the point of name-calling.

I stopped going there after awhile."

I guess we have to prove them wrong.  Pure gold fears no fire.

I saw some posting that Fr. Ambrose was here, but posting under another name.  Father?

Yes, it seems Winston Smith of the Congregation of Truth is the new moderator.  :police: If you just started a day ago, you would not have known about the non-Forum.

I was in the midst of posting when the ax fell.  I am REALLY bummed on the disappearance of the EC threads even from archives.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: BrotherAidan on November 12, 2007, 12:46:40 AM
And if I remember correctly, Fr Ambrose had 18,997 posts. Closing down the EC forum was simply a diversionary tactic to the real motive: preventing Fr Ambrose from reaching 19,000 posts! ;D
how many years did it take to make that many posts?
that's alot!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 12, 2007, 12:57:58 AM
I can tell you that StMarkEofE was one of the first to get banned forever. I know this first hand.

JoeS(StMarkEofE)

Ok... are most of the orthodox from catholic answers forum keeping there names from there,and transfering them here so we dont lose track of each other...by not recognizing them by the new names,,  like for instants you  as joeS  ...just a thought...stashko : :police:
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: PeterTheAleut on November 12, 2007, 01:00:15 AM
When I first started posting at CAF (a mere three months ago) I got a PM, to a PM I sent to a posting about how liberal the Latins were in contrast to the Orthodox:

"I'm not sure I remember the site address, but I think it's orthdoxchristianity.net. Moreover, they were not so bold as to make what I said a public policy, but it was the way the moderator handled the forum.

On that forum if a Catholic was thinking of converting to Orthodoxy, a Catholic was not permitted to argue against it, but the Orthodox were allowed to encourage it. On the Catholic Answers forum both sides may speak in such instances.

At one point I was told by the moderator that if I wanted to state my views regarding doctrine that I was required to preface it with a phrase like 'in my opinion.' There was no such requirement for Orthodox posters.

Moreover, while the Catholic posters were required to walk on eggshells, the Orthodox posters were permitted to be as rude as they wanted to be; and some of them (not all, by any means) took full advantage of that, even to the point of name-calling.

I stopped going there after awhile."
I think I know full well the online name of the poster who sent you this PM.  Please don't take his word to be truly representative of how we treat RC posters on this forum, for much of what he related to you was really how we responded to his posts specifically.

Quote
I guess we have to prove them wrong.  Pure gold fears no fire.
Well, I hope you can see that my fellow Admins/Moderators and I are committed to fostering an environment for respectful discussion of even those issues that are certain to arouse disagreement, recognizing as you do that "pure gold fears no fire".

- PeterTheAleut


Post edited by author to delete inaccurate statement.  I'm thinking now that I spoke of a different poster who no longer posts here.  - PeterTheAleut
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paisius on November 12, 2007, 01:02:09 AM
Now we are the ones going out on a limb entering the 'enemy' territory.  :)
That's what I don't understand. Of course it's nice to have an opportunity to talk about specifically Orthodox issues with other Orthodox Christians but I've always gotten the most enjoyment from talking with Christians from traditions other than my own. And for some reason the group that stimulates ;) me the most is Roman Catholics.

Maybe some of our Roman Catholic friends will join us here?

Yours in Christ
Paisius
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Salpy on November 12, 2007, 01:09:22 AM
"I'm not sure I remember the site address, but I think it's orthdoxchristianity.net. Moreover, they were not so bold as to make what I said a public policy, but it was the way the moderator handled the forum.

On that forum if a Catholic was thinking of converting to Orthodoxy, a Catholic was not permitted to argue against it, but the Orthodox were allowed to encourage it. On the Catholic Answers forum both sides may speak in such instances.

At one point I was told by the moderator that if I wanted to state my views regarding doctrine that I was required to preface it with a phrase like "in my opinion." There was no such requirement for Orthodox posters.

Moreover, while the Catholic posters were required to walk on eggshells, the Orthodox posters were permitted to be as rude as they wanted to be; and some of them (not all, by any means) took full advantage of that, even to the point of name-calling.

I stopped going there after awhile."


It's too bad that this perception exists about our forum.  I guess you are right that we will all have to prove this wrong.  This is especially so if we want more of our Roman Catholic friends to join us here for stimulating dialogue.  
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 12, 2007, 01:09:34 AM
Hey Everyone, I post over at CAF, but came over here from a link on the new Eastern Catholicism forum. I just wanted to suggest - since I never was part of the thing at the Eastern Christianity forum that it would be interesting to post some thread similar to those (with the exception of any personal attacks) on here. I would be interested in seeing these apologetic arguments that are so powerful that no Latin could answer them.

Catholig

Im hoping I state this clearly:

It was my experience there that when I gave an answer to a question it wasnt taken as an explanation to our faith so much as a challenge to the questioner. Answering questions on a Catholic website by Orthodox can sometimes come across as being too anachronistic vs. being relevant in this modern world.

Unfortunately, the moderator found it necessary to purge not just the posters but the posters archived files of which layed much valuable information that had taken much time to compile. Now that is all down the toilet.  All this may have to be built up again, maybe not.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 12, 2007, 01:15:00 AM
Unfortunately, the moderator found it necessary to purge not just the posters but the posters archived files of which layed much valuable information that had taken much time to compile. Now that is all down the toilet.  All this may have to be built up again, maybe not.
It is too bad. I had several posts and threads bookmarked because of the wonderful information they contained. Now it's gone. At least I had the foresight to copy some of it to disk first.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 12, 2007, 01:16:24 AM
It's too bad that this perception exists about our forum.  I guess you are right that we will all have to prove this wrong.  This is especially so if we want more of our Roman Catholic friends to join us here for stimulating dialogue.  


Funny, I got entirely the opposite impression on CAF. The Romans were given a lot of latitude in some of their diatribes against Orthodox posters.  I know one thing for sure, Orthodox posters go more warnings than their counterparts.  I was suspended more than three times, and Im considered one of the milder posters. I bent over backwards not to bring personalities into the fray, but I again state that answers were not taken as answers so much as challenges.

But, all in all, Im more than happy being back in more friendlier territory.

JoeS
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 12, 2007, 01:17:50 AM


I saw some posting that Fr. Ambrose was here, but posting under another name.  Father?

ialmisry, when I said that I miss-spoke.  Fr hasn't been posting here.  I am hoping that he will come here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jo Ann on November 12, 2007, 01:18:21 AM
I miss you all so much and was so happy to find most of here.  I was "lurking" at CAF for almost a year while discerning Holy Orthodoxy.  Actually, it was an article in This Rockmagazine which lead me study and learn about Eastern Orthodoxy.  I was a very happy Latin with no problems in my church.  The more I read, the more uncomfortable RC seemed.  So, in a way, CAF was very instrumental in helping my husband and I make this change.  We have 5 children attending a very traditional Roman Catholic school grades K5 thru 9.  The road will be difficult, but worth every step!  My SSPX and Opus Dei friends are confused at our change, but trying to understand.

I am glad to have found you all again.  I probably will not post much... it is just so nice to be here!

Glory to God!

Jo Ann
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 12, 2007, 01:19:54 AM

Funny, I got entirely the opposite impression on CAF. The Romans were given a lot of latitude in some of their diatribes against Orthodox posters.  I know one thing for sure, Orthodox posters go more warnings than their counterparts.  I was suspended more than three times, and Im considered one of the milder posters. I bent over backwards not to bring personalities into the fray, but I again state that answers were not taken as answers so much as challenges.

But, all in all, Im more than happy being back in more friendlier territory.

JoeS

May I ask who you were on CAF?  From the little statement bellow your picture I would guess St.MarkEofE.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 12, 2007, 01:26:56 AM
But what about BOB ? Has he been left behind ? Oh my...



Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: PeterTheAleut on November 12, 2007, 01:27:50 AM
When I first started posting at CAF (a mere three months ago) I got a PM, to a PM I sent to a posting about how liberal the Latins were in contrast to the Orthodox:
Continuing my most recent previous post on this thread:

Just a friendly moderatorial caution that, even though we Orthodox posters here do speak openly our criticisms of Roman Catholic faith and praxis, the use of the pseudonym "Latins" in reference to Latin-Rite Catholics has taken on a pejorative meaning that we find unacceptable here.  Therefore, out of respect for our Catholic posters, we ask that posters not refer to them as "Latins".  Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.


Otherwise, I offer yet another big, hearty welcome from the Admin/Moderator team to the flood of new posters seeking refuge here from the recent shakedown at CAF.  I will do my part to make sure your time here is positive and edifying. :)

- PeterTheAleut
Faith Issues Section Moderator
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 12, 2007, 01:29:54 AM
May I ask who you were on CAF?  From the little statement bellow your picture I would guess St.MarkEofE.

Your guess is correct.  I just hate to loose those 4,400+ posts because they had some good info on them.

JoeS
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 12, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
But what about BOB ? Has he been left behind ? Oh my...





Which Bob are you referring to?

JoeS
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 12, 2007, 01:33:28 AM
Your guess is correct.  I just hate to loose those 4,400+ posts because they had some good info on them.

JoeS

Yes, there was a great deal of information that I would like to have.

Peter, I like your signature, 'truth is often in the paradox'.  That is how my tradition views things.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 12, 2007, 01:50:06 AM
I was referring to Orthodoc...

I have no problem with the majority of labels/terms using the word Latin...it's the majority of the American Catholic's who have a problem with it.

I have aquired Rhino Skin over these many years...


james

though papalist tweeks me abit  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 12, 2007, 01:55:39 AM
Papalist is 'out' too, I'm afraid.

And I think Orthodoc is angry because he can't use the "U-word" here.


{I didn't know libations caused tough hide}
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Pravoslavbob on November 12, 2007, 01:56:08 AM
Just a friendly moderatorial caution that, even though we Orthodox posters here do speak openly our criticisms of Roman Catholic faith and praxis, the use of the pseudonym "Latins" in reference to Latin-Rite Catholics has taken on a pejorative meaning that we find unacceptable here.  Therefore, out of respect for our Catholic posters, we ask that posters not refer to them as "Latins".  Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.

I frankly find this way too politically correct.  I don't even get it.  To me, it's like saying we can't call the Orthodox Church "the Greek Church" because people might find it pejorative.  For the longest time scholars have used the terms "the Latin Church" or "Latins" to refer to the Catholic West or "the Greek Church" or "Greeks" (particularly in terms of Mediterranean situations) when referring to the Orthodox East, especially when contrasting the two ecclesial bodies.  IMHO it's just too bad if people find the terms pejorative, and if people are using it/them in a way that is designed to put people down, that's simply ignorant.  In previous posts (not recently), I have often made references to "the Latin Church," with no intention to put down Catholics.  Not being able to use these terms can make discourse more unwieldy at times.  Since the moderators have made the decision not to use these/this term(s), I will endeavor to not use them again, but I think that this point had to be made.

James
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: PeterTheAleut on November 12, 2007, 01:56:45 AM
I was referring to Orthodoc...

I have no problem with the majority of labels/terms using the word Latin...it's the majority of the American Catholic's who have a problem with it.

I have aquired Rhino Skin over these many years...


james

though papalist tweeks me abit  ;)
Which explains our intolerance of the derogatory names "Papist" or "Papalist" (except in reference to a specific poster here who actually calls himself Papist), as well. :police:
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 12, 2007, 01:58:47 AM
Well, James, we do have a number of Eastern Catholic members who bristle at "Latins".

I make no further comment, personally.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: PeterTheAleut on November 12, 2007, 02:00:42 AM
I frankly find this way too politically correct.  I don't even get it.  To me, it's like saying we can't call the Orthodox Church "the Greek Church" because people might find it pejorative.  For the longest time scholars have used the terms "the Latin Church" or "Latins" to refer to the Catholic West or "the Greek Church" or "Greeks" (particularly in terms of Mediterranean situations) when referring to the Orthodox East, especially when contrasting the two ecclesial bodies.  IMHO it's just too bad if people find the terms pejorative, and if people are using it/them in a way that is designed to put people down, that's simply ignorant.  In previous posts (not recently), I have often made references to "the Latin Church," with no intention to put down Catholics.  Not being able to use these terms can make discourse more unwieldy at times.  You will hear no more from me about this in future since the moderators have made this decision and I will endeavor to not use these terms again, but I think that this point had to be made.

James
Actually, I believe our concern is not with any reference to the RC Churches of the Latin Rite as the "Latin Church", since this is often used in academic literature, IIRC.  We're primarily concerned with any application of the term "Latins" to individual Catholics, since many do use this in an intentionally insulting manner.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 12, 2007, 02:05:20 AM
I was sorry to see the closing of the Eastern Christianity forum at CAF.  

Almost all of my posts have been deleted.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 12, 2007, 02:06:52 AM
I was sorry to see the closing of the Eastern Christianity forum at CAF. 

Almost all of my posts have been deleted.
Nice to see you here Apotheoun. I always liked your posts.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Pravoslavbob on November 12, 2007, 02:09:12 AM
Actually, I believe our concern is not with any reference to the RC Churches of the Latin Rite as the "Latin Church", since this is often used in academic literature, IIRC.  We're primarily concerned with any application of the term "Latins" to individual Catholics, since many do use this in an intentionally insulting manner.

Well, okay.....I guess this makes sense.  I suppose it is usually quite easy to know where to draw the line in this case.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 12, 2007, 02:10:38 AM
Nice to see you here Apotheoun. I always liked your posts.
Thanks.   

:)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 12, 2007, 02:26:54 AM
Hey everyone! I forget I had opened an account on here some time ago, but seeing as CAF has just about banned the Orthodox, I figured I'd see people here...

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius 8)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 12, 2007, 02:30:39 AM
I don't understand what happened, though. One minute I'm reading and replying to posts and the next I'm being archieved! It's one thing to warn people, but to just close it on a whim--I don't know...

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius 8)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 12, 2007, 02:43:45 AM
I don't understand what happened, though. One minute I'm reading and replying to posts and the next I'm being archieved! It's one thing to warn people, but to just close it on a whim--I don't know...

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius 8)
And the next minute you're being deleted.

It's their board and they can do what they want with it, including ban people who (whether intentionally or not) convert people away from the RCC. But I still don't like it.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 12, 2007, 03:02:49 AM
ialmisry, when I said that I miss-spoke.  Fr hasn't been posting here.  I am hoping that he will come here.


Brother jimmy and Brother Isa...
 Father Ambrose e-mailed me ,,asked if i was banned ,i said yes i was..i e-mailed back told i'll be here on orthodox christiany. net..he probable knows were almost all here....stashko ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 12, 2007, 03:18:46 AM
And the next minute you're being deleted.

It's their board and they can do what they want with it, including ban people who (whether intentionally or not) convert people away from the RCC. But I still don't like it.

It's a shame, really. I'm not banned, but that's because I'm Catholic. I've always said that I'm in more agreement with the Orthodox than the Latin church and just the other day, I got asked why I'm not Orthodox then. Probably because I haven't had the chance, yet. It will happen, though. I have already alerted my parents who have mixed feelings (they're evangelicals) that I will become Orthodox.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius 8)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 12, 2007, 04:37:52 AM
Sad to say, but the new Eastern Catholicism forum appears to be designed to force Eastern Catholics -- like me -- to conform to Latin doctrinal formulations.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 12, 2007, 05:53:44 AM
Thanks.   

:)
I want to second wynd's impression. Your postings, Apotheoun, were so edifying to me.

Many, many so informative posts - not only from the Orthodox posters headed by Fr Ambrose, Isa Almisry, Heracliades, Hesychios, Orthodoc, Reader Arsenios, StMarkofE, Montalban, ICXC NIKA, but also of RC and U-(forbidden - I'm really puzzled why) - Apotheoun being the first "among equals", Ghosty, Mardukm, Catholig, and many, many others.

A real treasury deleted!

Why? These posts were not showing only the Orthodox "upper hand"! For Christ sake, I got not only better understanding of our differencies there, but better appreciation, for instance, of Thomas Aquinas, who is now more acceptable to me in religious terms than he used to be! (Reader Arsenios and Ghosty should be credited for that specific topic.) And so many quotations and links in context about so many issues. A treasury!

Occasional fire was mostly the consequence of misperception, ignorance of otherone's attitude and priorities and quite rarely of ill intentions, at least that's my impression.

My account hasn't been suspended there, but it was requested I change password. I wanted to check PM there - what's the point of writing for a trash can?

There is no better learning method than reading polemics, and participating in them. And so many fine reasonings - all deleted. I'm so sad.

But I'm glad I see all and each one of present CAF posters here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 08:33:05 AM
It's too bad that this perception exists about our forum.  I guess you are right that we will all have to prove this wrong.  This is especially so if we want more of our Roman Catholic friends to join us here for stimulating dialogue.  

I notice that you are Armenian.  A frequent complaint I had on ECF (of course, it wasn't their fault) was that the number of non-Chalcedonians Orthodox was nearly non-existent. In fact, I think we only had a few Copts and Syriacs who had submitted to Rome. I always felt a little queasy speaking for the Copts, Mar Thoma, Armenians, etc., but I wanted make sure their views were heard too.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 08:39:07 AM
I miss you all so much and was so happy to find most of here.  I was "lurking" at CAF for almost a year while discerning Holy Orthodoxy.  Actually, it was an article in This Rockmagazine which lead me study and learn about Eastern Orthodoxy.  I was a very happy Latin with no problems in my church.  The more I read, the more uncomfortable RC seemed.  So, in a way, CAF was very instrumental in helping my husband and I make this change.  We have 5 children attending a very traditional Roman Catholic school grades K5 thru 9.  The road will be difficult, but worth every step!  My SSPX and Opus Dei friends are confused at our change, but trying to understand.

I am glad to have found you all again.  I probably will not post much... it is just so nice to be here!

Glory to God!

Jo Ann

Given that background, are you considering Western Rite?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 08:46:47 AM
Hey everyone! I forget I had opened an account on here some time ago, but seeing as CAF has just about banned the Orthodox, I figured I'd see people here...

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius 8)

Same here.

Btw I'd post on all of you, how much I enjoyed your posts, both Orthodox and those with Rome, but I'm afraid I would have to do so so often I'd be accused of bloating my posting number. ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 12, 2007, 08:51:47 AM
Hey there!

Another Orthodox member of CAF here! I didn't get banned, because I never had anything too smart to contribute in the debate, so I guess I'm not dangerous.

So glad to see you all here!  :) I can't believe some of you got banned - whatever for? - and in such a secretive way!? This is very sad indeed. :(

Danica in Serbia
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 12, 2007, 09:04:57 AM
Same here.

Btw I'd post on all of you, how much I enjoyed your posts, both Orthodox and those with Rome, but I'm afraid I would have to do so so often I'd be accused of bloating my posting number. ;D

Don't worry about it - people have less substantial things to say than praise of other posters, and often post them unabashedly seeking a raise in their post count.  Go ahead - appreciate your friends!  Sometimes they think that their posts are less than helpful, until someone points out how they've actually helped them.

Try the "Random Postings" thread: it's where we go on OC.net to just post, well, Random things.  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,7837.2715.html
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 09:12:17 AM
It's a shame, really. I'm not banned, but that's because I'm Catholic. I've always said that I'm in more agreement with the Orthodox than the Latin church and just the other day, I got asked why I'm not Orthodox then. Probably because I haven't had the chance, yet. It will happen, though. I have already alerted my parents who have mixed feelings (they're evangelicals) that I will become Orthodox.

Which just means you will be becoming more Catholic.

My Evangelical Lutheran mother did come to my chrismation.  She left the Church muttering something about hocus pocus.  We didn't talk much about it for five years.

One day we were passing a Latin rite church an I remarked how it was Romanesque.  She asked me what that meant, and I explained it had thick walls, less window space, etc.  She then said "I hear that your Church hasn't changed since the time of the Apostles."  Suprised, I replied "That's the idea."

Things were even better for a family at our parish.  John and Tanya Maddex (what I say here he has told me here is public knowledge now, so I'm not breaking any confidence) were dismayed that their daughter, a student at Moody Bible Institute, was sort of seeing someone at Moody who was getting involved in this Orthodox cult.  John was director of Moody's Radio network.  So they wanted to see how they could combat this.  Well, as we know how that goes: the daughter converted after the boyfriend (now husband), her brother converted with his wife (please pray for Paige, I hear she has a bout with cancer), and in turn John and Tanya, the grandmother, etc...  Btw, since it was in the news, John was forced to resign his post from Moody this year, but has personally told me that he agreed with the decision (it is a Baptist mission after all), they gave him a very fair package, and they parted with mutual respect and dignity and without hard feelings. He now runs www.ancientfaithradio.com (I often listen while I post: keeps the flames down).

Btw, one of the posts consigned to the flames at ECF had the link to the Baptist missionary manual, which the post (and I see why) some Orthodox were actually adopting as an Orthodox Catechism!  Anyone have the link?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 09:18:41 AM
Sad to say, but the new Eastern Catholicism forum appears to be designed to force Eastern Catholics -- like me -- to conform to Latin doctrinal formulations.

Yes, a number of the posts were sort of "well the Eastern Catholics don't have to SAY them, but they had better BELIEVE them."

Right now a discussion is going on which more or less revolves on how those of us in the East (under Rome and not) are REALLY missing REAL spirituality because we don't have Eucharistic Adoration as a separate practice.

Such things of course makes us Orthodox stay put.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 09:25:40 AM
I want to second wynd's impression. Your postings, Apotheoun, were so edifying to me.

Many, many so informative posts - not only from the Orthodox posters headed by Fr Ambrose, Isa Almisry, Heracliades, Hesychios, Orthodoc, Reader Arsenios, StMarkofE, Montalban, ICXC NIKA, but also of RC and U-(forbidden - I'm really puzzled why) - Apotheoun being the first "among equals", Ghosty, Mardukm, Catholig, and many, many others.

A real treasury deleted!

Yes, I heartily second your post.

Ghosty and Mardukm's defense of the Latin (in the theological and liturgical sense of the word: beyond that I leave to your own imaginations) positions alone should have made them think before they dumped it in the shredder.  In particular, many here I think saw the loggerheads I had with Mardukhm, all without it getting personal, and I hope highly enlightening (I found it so).

Solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 09:50:16 AM
I might mention an odd thing that happened after the ECF was taken off archives:

Someone PMd me about praying the Novena for November for the souls in purgatory, and gave me instructions on how to do so, and a link to where I could post that I was doing it.

I replied:

For some reason I can't fathom I received a PM to join in on this, and directed me to this thread.

I doubt anyone who has seen my numerous posts on "purgatory" on the Eastern Chrisitan forum would have sent me such a message. I'd direct you to look at them, but they, along with the rest of the Eastern Christian forum, have been purged.

I don't do Novenas. Remind me too much of the occultism I left while a teenager.

Now I do regularly pray for the departed, and so I'll add your good intentions this month. Hope it helps.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 12, 2007, 10:05:15 AM
Solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
I think this sums up this whole sorry situation. But lets see how your Koine is: "μη δωτε το αγιον τοις κυσιν μηδε βαλητε τους μαργαριτας υμων εμπροσθεν των χοιρων μηποτε καταπατησουσιν αυτους εν τοις ποσιν αυτων και στραφεντες ρηξωσιν υμας" ;)
Welcome to our new and renewed forum members!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 11:06:01 AM
I think this sums up this whole sorry situation. But lets see how your Koine is: "μη δωτε το αγιον τοις κυσιν μηδε βαλητε τους μαργαριτας υμων εμπροσθεν των χοιρων μηποτε καταπατησουσιν αυτους εν τοις ποσιν αυτων και στραφεντες ρηξωσιν υμας" ;)
Welcome to our new and renewed forum members!


καὶ ὃς ἂν μὴ δέξηται ὑμᾶς μηδὲ ἀκούσῃ τοὺς λόγους ὑμῶν, ἐξερχόμενοι ἔξω τῆς οἰκίας ἢ τῆς πόλεως ἐκείνης ἐκτινάξατε τὸν κονιορτὸν ἐκ τῶν ποδῶν ὑμῶν. ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀνεκτότερον ἔσται γῇ Σοδόμων καὶ Γομόρρων ἐν ἡμέρᾳ κρίσεως ἢ τῇ πόλει ἐκείνῃ.
 :'(
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 12, 2007, 11:10:09 AM
Hello,

καὶ ὃς ἂν μὴ δέξηται ὑμᾶς μηδὲ ἀκούσῃ τοὺς λόγους ὑμῶν, ἐξερχόμενοι ἔξω τῆς οἰκίας ἢ τῆς πόλεως ἐκείνης ἐκτινάξατε τὸν κονιορτὸν ἐκ τῶν ποδῶν ὑμῶν. ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀνεκτότερον ἔσται γῇ Σοδόμων καὶ Γομόρρων ἐν ἡμέρᾳ κρίσεως ἢ τῇ πόλει ἐκείνῃ.
 :'(
???

It's Greek to me.  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 12, 2007, 11:19:03 AM
I was sorry to see the closing of the Eastern Christianity forum at CAF.  

Almost all of my posts have been deleted.
Sad to say, but the new Eastern Catholicism forum appears to be designed to force Eastern Catholics -- like me -- to conform to Latin doctrinal formulations.
I have the highest regard for your depth of knowledge.

I am sad to see what has happened at CAF, but very glad to see your posts again. I detect a sense of muted response from many now. It's sad because the first exposure people have to Eastern Apostolic Christianity should be eyes wide open, for their sake.

Welcome here, and good luck everywhere you post.

Michael, that sinner
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 12, 2007, 11:26:38 AM
Quote
μαργαριτας
The one word that jumped out at me.  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 11:28:32 AM
Hello,
 ???

It's Greek to me.  ;D

It's all Gospel to us. ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 12, 2007, 11:39:28 AM
It's Greek to me.  ;D
I quoted Matthew 7:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=7&verse=6&version=50&context=verse), and ialmisry resplied with Mark 6:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=6&verse=11&version=9&context=verse).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Salpy on November 12, 2007, 12:00:40 PM
I notice that you are Armenian.  A frequent complaint I had on ECF (of course, it wasn't their fault) was that the number of non-Chalcedonians Orthodox was nearly non-existent. In fact, I think we only had a few Copts and Syriacs who had submitted to Rome. I always felt a little queasy speaking for the Copts, Mar Thoma, Armenians, etc., but I wanted make sure their views were heard too.

I notice your last name is Almisry.  Doesn't that mean Egyptian in Arabic?  Are you Coptic?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 12, 2007, 12:43:54 PM
Wow, it's like old home week here!! :) :)

What a treat to see all of you here, especially such luminaries as Isa, St. Mark, Arsenios, etc., etc.  Please, I hope no one takes offense by not being included in the "luminaries" list.  Notice that I am not there either  :o!  I truely valued all the contributors at CAF who are now making their "home" here!  Oftentimes, it was those who only posted infrequently who contributed some of the most pointed and cogent posts.  Seems like what started as a trickle from CAF is now becoming a flood!

Oh well, their loss!!!

Truely a crying shame to see the total loss of all those incredible posts!  And given what went down over there, it hardly surprises me.  And as someone said here earlier, so very much in keeping with the whole RC phronema.

I never contributed much at CAF, and given my situation, probably won't run up much of a post count here, but I'll be a happy lurker, at least!

So wonderful to see everyone here!

Many blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Robert on November 12, 2007, 12:48:13 PM
Just a warm welcome to all the new folks on the site!  Please make yourselves at home! 

If you have any suggestions or comments about the site, feel free to PM me.

Also, if you are in the mood for much  more polemical debate, send me a PM and we can add you to our special "Private" forums where you can debate to heart's content.

Thanks and welcome!
Robert
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 01:07:18 PM
I notice your last name is Almisry.  Doesn't that mean Egyptian in Arabic?  Are you Coptic?

Very good, it does, but no, I'm not Coptic.  There's a community of Syro-Lebanese in Egypt.  The muslims have been assimilated by the Egyptians, but because of the difference in Sunday worship, we're still identifiable as Syro-Egyptians.  I was born and raised in the US, and haven't been to Egypt since the 90's.

I love the Copts, and actually had to emphasize with them that I wasn't Coptic (I went to the Coptic Church regularly), although I understood Coptic.  I almost married a Copt (who, however was Protestant).  No offense, I was quite flattered, but just I am Arab (I also defend strongly the Copts right to see themselves as a people separate from the Arabs, no offense there either).'

I was received by the OCA, but am now at an Antiochean parish which is almost 100% converts, except for our children (the priest always kids that the Almisry boys will complain that the DL was in a lanaguage they didn't understand:English! [their mother's Romanian]).  I sort of consider myself under Alexandria (Pope Theodore but I commorate Shenoudah too), on loan to Antioch (the de facto Patriarch of the Arabs, although that had nothing to do with how I ended up at an Antiochean parish).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 12, 2007, 01:39:18 PM
Just a warm welcome to all the new folks on the site!  Please make yourselves at home! 

If you have any suggestions or comments about the site, feel free to PM me.

Also, if you are in the mood for much  more polemical debate, send me a PM and we can add you to our special "Private" forums where you can debate to heart's content.

Thanks and welcome!
Robert

What a joy to be welcomed so warmly here by all the admins. and moderators!!  Never got any kind of welcome even close to that by the CAF folks.  I wonder if that, too, reflects a difference between the Orthodox and RC world-views?  Just a (tiny) thought!

Thank you all so much!

Many blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 12, 2007, 04:40:52 PM
Charity certainly is lacking at the new Eastern Catholicism forum, because I was just compared to Satan by a poster named "East and West" (I believe he uses the screen name Papist at this forum).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 12, 2007, 04:54:12 PM
G, I use ScotchGuard (single malt), those irritants just fall away... 8)

james
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 12, 2007, 05:21:01 PM
I just used the "Contact Us" form at CAF and very politely asked what happened to EC 2007 archive and all the posts therein.  It will be very interesting to see what they say in reply.  That is, if they even reply at all!

Maybe some of the folks here who are still in "good standing" there could also ask, that is, if you felt like taking the time and trouble to do so.  Maybe I'm delusional, but perhaps there's a way to retrieve some of those great posts.  And then again, maybe not :( .

Many blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papist on November 12, 2007, 05:22:23 PM
Catholic answers forum,, removed the eastern christian sub -forum renamed it eastern catholic ,,,accused the orthodox of proselytizing the eastern catholics /roman catholic ,,,orthodox may be able to defend the faith in the non catholic sub-forum still not sure about that thought...i was banned for some reason.. in the new eastern catholic sub -forum if orthodox participate the cant call them selfs catholic or orthodox catholic acording to the moderator Therese  martin  stashko ???

But they are free to call themselves Orthodox. Using the term Catholic was just two confusing for new people coming into the Forum for the first time.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: FrChris on November 12, 2007, 05:27:12 PM
I just used the "Contact Us" form at CAF and very politely asked what happened to EC 2007 archive and all the posts therein.  It will be very interesting to see what they say in reply.  That is, if they even reply at all!

Maybe some of the folks here who are still in "good standing" there could also ask, that is, if you felt like taking the time and trouble to do so.  Maybe I'm delusional, but perhaps there's a way to retrieve some of those great posts.  And then again, maybe not :( .


Please let me know what the response is...perhaps there is some way we could help preserve these threads...the amateur historian/archivist in me is horrified at the thought of the destruction of knowledge and attempt to re-write history that is being undertaken.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 12, 2007, 05:28:33 PM
It may be confusing for Roman Catholics, but the Eastern Orthodox are Catholics.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 12, 2007, 05:33:15 PM
It may be confusing for Roman Catholics, but the Eastern Orthodox are Catholics.
Chuckle, chuckle...
You fit in just fine here, Apotheoun  :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 12, 2007, 05:42:45 PM
But they are free to call themselves Orthodox. Using the term Catholic was just two confusing for new people coming into the Forum for the first time.
Errrr...and that's supposed to explain and justify the removal of the entire EC forum from the public record?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 12, 2007, 05:43:17 PM
But they are free to call themselves Orthodox. Using the term Catholic was just two confusing for new people coming into the Forum for the first time.

Come on, Papist, give us a break.  That was hardly the main issue, and you know it.  And if we did call ourselves Orthodox, or Orthodox Catholic, and stepped just a nano-micron outside the ridiculous parameters set by the mods., bam!, account frozen.  

If that was a problem, and I seriously doubt it was, all the mods. had to do was to state it as such and politely and respectfully request that we just call ourselves Orthodox and leave it at that.  Simple.  Non-confrontational.  Easy.  But, that wasn't a problem, wasn't an issue, and you saw what happened.

Blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 12, 2007, 05:47:48 PM
Please let me know what the response is...perhaps there is some way we could help preserve these threads...the amateur historian/archivist in me is horrified at the thought of the destruction of knowledge and attempt to re-write history that is being undertaken.

Will do!!

Yeah, it's pretty awful what they've done, even if it is "only" a web-site, as someone earlier put it.

Blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 12, 2007, 05:51:31 PM
Sad to say, but the new Eastern Catholicism forum appears to be designed to force Eastern Catholics -- like me -- to conform to Latin doctrinal formulations.

Just look at the discussions I have had over there and you will see this pretty clearly.  I have already been called a heretic and uncatholic.  Atleast though there might be some thoroughly eastern Catholics beginning to post again.  LakaYaRabb is a friend of mine from Steubenville and I can tell you he has no intent on submitting to the western views. 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 12, 2007, 05:54:21 PM
The more I think about their actions the more they seems like a "book burning".
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Salpy on November 12, 2007, 05:56:09 PM
It may be confusing for Roman Catholics, but the Eastern Orthodox are Catholics.

Actually, there was a thread on what to call everyone, as well as different cities.  I think there were three or four Romes and New York City is the Fourth Babylon.    :)

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,12059.html#top
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 12, 2007, 06:08:53 PM
The more I think about their actions the more they seems like a "book burning".

Indeed!  I'm sure, however, that they would say, "It's our web-site and we'll do with it what we want!"  And as far as that goes, it's true.  But the spirit of what they have done most definitely resembles a book burning.

Blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 12, 2007, 06:36:21 PM
Please let me know what the response is...perhaps there is some way we could help preserve these threads...the amateur historian/archivist in me is horrified at the thought of the destruction of knowledge and attempt to re-write history that is being undertaken.

"The old forum has been removed from the archive for the foreseeable future.  Whether it will be restored to the site has not yet been determined.

ForumAdmin Staff
Catholic Answers Forums"

There's their answer.  Nice and informative, isn't it? (Yeah, right!)

At least they imply that the posts are not gone forever.  I guess we'll just have to rely upon their good will (yeah, right!) for any future restoration of them.

Blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Christodoulos on November 12, 2007, 06:43:25 PM
God bless!

I think they were afraid of the orthodox and their arguments !
What can they say against the Holy Truth ? Nothing, so they had to stop the discussion.

In CHRIST
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 12, 2007, 06:54:06 PM
God bless!

I think they were afraid of the orthodox and their arguments !
What can they say against the Holy Truth ? Nothing, so they had to stop the discussion.

In CHRIST

Yup!

I also just wrote them back asking if there was a reason for removing the archive.  (I asked them that in the first email, but I guess they chose to ignore it.)  Will keep you posted.

In Christ,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 12, 2007, 06:56:38 PM
I'm sure, however, that they would say, "It's our web-site and we'll do with it what we want!" 
Well, yes, they certainly are free to do so. But what kind of company are they in when they undertake a bibliocaust?
"Where one burns books, one will soon burn people."  -Heinrich Heine
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 12, 2007, 07:00:02 PM
Well, yes, they certainly are free to do so. But what kind of company are they in when they undertake a bibliocaust?
"Where one burns books, one will soon burn people."  -Heinrich Heine

Hmmmmmm.....The Spanish Inquisition?

I know, RC's say what's written about it is hyperbole.  Could be, I guess.  I wasn't there.

God bless,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 12, 2007, 07:14:35 PM
Just look at the discussions I have had over there and you will see this pretty clearly.  I have already been called a heretic and uncatholic.  Atleast though there might be some thoroughly eastern Catholics beginning to post again.  LakaYaRabb is a friend of mine from Steubenville and I can tell you he has no intent on submitting to the western views. 
That's too bad. I'm glad to see you, Laka and Yeshua sticking up for Eastern/Oriental Catholicism on the new EC board.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 12, 2007, 07:18:19 PM
LakaYaRabb is a friend of mine from Steubenville and I can tell you he has no intent on submitting to the western views. 

I just posted on CA that I will not accept these either. It appears that the administration is preparing a response on the staff chat, but I can't be sure. It also seems that Joe Monahan is no longer a moderator...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: yeshua on November 12, 2007, 09:08:23 PM
I am very close to hitting my final barrier with CAF. I can not believe how stark it is now, not even the helpful Latin Catholics are showing themselves out in full (though to his credit, Ghosty has done some good). No matter how hard we show and discuss and prove how valid experiences, it's not good enough, which should be of no surprise. Anyway, forgive my vent. I came to announce I probably will not be participating on CAF anymore, if at all be a casual lurker. I just feel this responsibility to step in when someone suddenly starts defending Latinizations. But why bother if everyone in the room agrees with the sentiment.

Bah.

Peace and God Bless.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 12, 2007, 09:17:44 PM
I just posted on CA that I will not accept these either. It appears that the administration is preparing a response on the staff chat, but I can't be sure. It also seems that Joe Monahan is no longer a moderator...
How do you know that?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 12, 2007, 09:18:29 PM
I am very close to hitting my final barrier with CAF. I can not believe how stark it is now, not even the helpful Latin Catholics are showing themselves out in full (though to his credit, Ghosty has done some good). No matter how hard we show and discuss and prove how valid experiences, it's not good enough, which should be of no surprise. Anyway, forgive my vent. I came to announce I probably will not be participating on CAF anymore, if at all be a casual lurker. I just feel this responsibility to step in when someone suddenly starts defending Latinizations. But why bother if everyone in the room agrees with the sentiment.
I've never been an EC so I can't comment, but it seems weird to me that some of the staunchest defenders of Latinizations are the ECs themselves. Is that common?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 12, 2007, 09:22:02 PM
I was very sad to see the archives of the Eastern Christianity taken out of public view. I enjoyed going back and reading those threads. Especially the one about Halloween that Father Ambrose contributed. I am still kicking myself for not saving the link to that blog he posted. >:(
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 12, 2007, 09:30:52 PM
Hi everyone... I got banned from Catholic Answers too.. You would think once in a while people would be smart enough not to play to type.

They simply couldn't handle rigorous scrutiny. They much prefer Protestants whom they can quickly defeat by introducing them to the writings of the Church Fathers. They were continually defeated on what they thought was their turf. So they reverted to type and did their draconian thing.

Lord have mercy on all of us

Marc
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: yeshua on November 12, 2007, 09:32:15 PM
I've never been an EC so I can't comment, but it seems weird to me that some of the staunchest defenders of Latinizations are the ECs themselves. Is that common?

In the diaspora, as common as you will find staunch defenders of Eastern and Oriental tradition, maybe more so, I really don't know. For the Maronites, many of these communities were born out of the care of American Roman Catholic prelates, often times growing with Latinizations; these people don't even know what's not their tradition.

Peace and God Bless.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 12, 2007, 09:46:34 PM
Hello,

I asked the CAF if I could get access to the old archives to save some of my more memorable posts - and those of others. The response I got is:

We sympathize with the loss of posts important to you, but unfortunately
do not have the time and resources necessary to recover them for you.

ForumAdmin Staff
Catholic Answers Forums
(http://forums.catholic.com)


Bummer! When will I learn to never put off till tomorrow what you can backup today.  :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 12, 2007, 09:46:59 PM
In the diaspora, as common as you will find staunch defenders of Eastern and Oriental tradition, maybe more so, I really don't know. For the Maronites, many of these communities were born out of the care of American Roman Catholic prelates, often times growing with Latinizations; these people don't even know what's not their tradition.

Peace and God Bless.

This makes even more sad that they are being forced out of their homeland.  They will be forced to migrate to western countries that will not be tollerant of their traditions and the tradition will be lost.  It is sad.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 12, 2007, 09:48:56 PM
Hello,

No matter how hard we show and discuss and prove how valid experiences, it's not good enough, which should be of no surprise.
I have seen you (and maybe one or two others) use this phrase of experiences recently. What exactly do you mean by it?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 12, 2007, 09:51:40 PM
I was very sad to see the archives of the Eastern Christianity taken out of public view. I enjoyed going back and reading those threads. Especially the one about Halloween that Father Ambrose contributed. I am still kicking myself for not saving the link to that blog he posted. >:(

Quinault, here is a little gift for you.  ;D

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:H4x2OmSHIX0J:forums.catholic.com/showthread.php%3Fp%3D2912435+%22fr+ambrose%22+halloween+samhain&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 12, 2007, 09:52:37 PM
Hello,

What a joy to be welcomed so warmly here by all the admins. and moderators!!  Never got any kind of welcome even close to that by the CAF folks.  I wonder if that, too, reflects a difference between the Orthodox and RC world-views?  Just a (tiny) thought!

Thank you all so much!

Many blessings,
Jeff
Do the moderators and admins welcome everyone on this forum - or just us refugees? It might not be fair to compare this warm welcome to that on CAF as I don't recall there being such a large concentrated influx coming to CAF at any one time.

Regardless of the answer, the welcome here is comforting and I am appreciative of it.

Thank you OrthodoxChristianity.net
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 12, 2007, 09:55:59 PM
Quinault, here is a little gift for you.  ;D

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:H4x2OmSHIX0J:forums.catholic.com/showthread.php%3Fp%3D2912435+%22fr+ambrose%22+halloween+samhain&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us


Wow! Thank you so much!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: yeshua on November 12, 2007, 10:06:08 PM
Hello,
I have seen you (and maybe one or two others) use this phrase of experiences recently. What exactly do you mean by it?

Coder,

The reason why we are being so staunch is because the new trend is to deny that our experiences as Eastern and Oriental Christians are not valid, as in is wrong, because it violates some notion that all Eastern and Oriental Catholics are in some romantic unity, or at least right now they should be. I find this unhealthy for dialogue, for it is not being honest at the disunity that does exist, and creating some mass statement like, "well, it should be this otherwise you are not Catholic," doesn't even address the issues.

Like I said on CAF, the same issues that separate Orthodoxy exist in the Catholic Communion. The sooner we recognize the fact, and be honest about our positions, we can try and hash out these issues.

Peace and God Bless.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 12, 2007, 10:17:58 PM
I just posted on CA that I will not accept these either. It appears that the administration is preparing a response on the staff chat, but I can't be sure. It also seems that Joe Monahan is no longer a moderator...

here is their response;

Quote
Thank you for bearing with us while we get the new Eastern Catholicism forum up and running.
We have received a number of concerns over the past week. Perhaps this is the best place to try and answer at once the key issues that have been raised. So we are speaking in general to all of the members who have voiced concerns and not specifically to the issues raised above.

1 - CAF is an expensive site to run. The management, administrative, technical, moderation, and infrastructure costs are significant. It does not pay its own way.

2 - In fact, it is only through the good graces of several individuals who are willing to put in long, uncompensated hours, oft-times in the wee hours, that we are able to keep CAF online. Asking them to do even more is not possible. Because of this, situations that increase CAF's costs and administrative time generally must be viewed with a keen eye and a sharp pencil. Hindrances to the smooth functioning of the site increase costs. We believe that keeping our costs low is an important guiding principle for CAF, one that is certainly not unreasonable.

3 - That some guests were unwilling to adhere to even basic rules of civility has unfortunately been the case and has had to be dealt with in a strict manner. We believe this too is reasonable and ask you to look at it from our point of view: Would you allow a house guest to remain after he showed disrespect to others and repeatedly mischaracterized, even bad-mouthed, you? Belligerence by parties (on both sides) in the old EC forum had risen to the point where several members (on both sides) had to be suspended or put under review. We cannot and will not discuss individual cases. All that can be said here is that several of the individuals affected (on both sides) have been spinning the situation to put themselves in a favorable light. It does not surprise us to see that belligerence and pride can cloud objectivity, although we regret that the situation has taken such a turn in some quarters.

4 - The situation in the old forum had deteriorated to the point where many CAF members felt driven out or were unwilling to venture into that forum because of the behaviors therein. This was clearly an untenable situation necessitating that we act quickly and decisively. That some now see rule enforcement as somehow "unfair" is an indication of just how bad a turn the situation had taken.

5 – While it may be obvious, it bears repeating: The purpose of CAF is to serve Catholics and non-Catholics who are willing to come together for discussions while complying with the rules. In order to meet these objectives better, we are simply moving in a new direction, getting "back to basics" if you will. Perhaps this should have been the first step a few years ago. We know many members think so. Given this new direction at CAF we are strictly enforcing the rules and hope that those who enjoy this site will bear with us through the rough patches.

6 – The forums are provided to the community at large on an "at will" basis. If the process of changing direction has resulted in shock or hurt feelings, we sympathize and hope in turn that you can sympathize with our position. However, we simply do not have the time and resources to engage in group (let alone one-on-one) consultations. If there are those among you whose needs are no longer being met by CAF, we apologize for the inconvenience and wish you luck in finding a more suitable venue. We trust that most members will work with us to create a safe, pleasant, charitable atmosphere in the new Eastern Catholicism forum and find in it a place that will meet their needs.

7 - While we look for an oversight team appropriate for the new Eastern Catholicism forum, we ask that members bear with us in the interim. We hope to have it in place in very short order (days, not weeks).

8 - As noted elsewhere, the old EC forum has been pulled for review. We hope to return reference material to the new EC forum in short order.

Thank you again for your patience. It is our hope and prayer that CAF remains a pleasant experience for all its members.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 12, 2007, 10:26:55 PM
I wonder what is the % rate of censure in the Non Catholic Forum...

I don't think it is high, that is a pool for possible converts...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 12, 2007, 10:28:32 PM
. . . LakaYaRabb is a friend of mine from Steubenville and I can tell you he has no intent on submitting to the western views.
He is also a friend of mine.  We both used to live at the Trinity East dorm at FUS.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 12, 2007, 10:32:22 PM
I just posted on CA that I will not accept these either. It appears that the administration is preparing a response on the staff chat, but I can't be sure. It also seems that Joe Monahan is no longer a moderator...
Yes, I noticed that he is now a "retired" moderator.  I sent him a private message just after the crackdown began, but he never responded.  He was always fair to me, and I wish him the best.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 12, 2007, 10:33:25 PM
Hello,

Coder,

The reason why we are being so staunch is because the new trend is to deny that our experiences as Eastern and Oriental Christians are not valid, as in is wrong, because it violates some notion that all Eastern and Oriental Catholics are in some romantic unity, or at least right now they should be. I find this unhealthy for dialogue, for it is not being honest at the disunity that does exist, and creating some mass statement like, "well, it should be this otherwise you are not Catholic," doesn't even address the issues.

Like I said on CAF, the same issues that separate Orthodoxy exist in the Catholic Communion. The sooner we recognize the fact, and be honest about our positions, we can try and hash out these issues.

Peace and God Bless.
O.K. I think I may understand what you are saying.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 12, 2007, 10:34:58 PM
He is also a friend of mine.  We both used to live at the Trinity East dorm at FUS.

Yes, he has mentioned you Apotheoun.  He mentioned that he learned a great deal from you.  I just met him this semester.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 12, 2007, 10:39:11 PM
Yes, he has mentioned you Apotheoun.  He mentioned that he learned a great deal from you.  I just met him this semester.
He and several other of my friends at FUS gave me a beautiful icon of St. Gregory Palamas, which I will always cherish, both because I am devoted to the doctor of the uncreated energies, but also because of the wonderful people who gave the icon to me.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 12, 2007, 11:00:04 PM
Yes, I noticed that he is now a "retired" moderator.  I sent him a private message just after the crackdown began, but he never responded.  He was always fair to me, and I wish him the best.

Yes, he was extremely fair to both sides. I always felt there was alot more freedom to express views. Perhaps that's why he's now "retired." There were a great amount of threads that got out of hand, but I learned so much more from them. He probably got asked to take a break because of the huge freedom. Very few people got banned on the EC's...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 11:19:08 PM
Indeed!  I'm sure, however, that they would say, "It's our web-site and we'll do with it what we want!"  And as far as that goes, it's true.  But the spirit of what they have done most definitely resembles a book burning.

Blessings,
Jeff

Sort of like Cardinal Humbert saying "It's our Church and we'll do with her what we want."

It seems all of us here, even those under Rome, had the same response to such a mentality.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Robert on November 12, 2007, 11:43:16 PM
Hello,
Do the moderators and admins welcome everyone on this forum - or just us refugees? It might not be fair to compare this warm welcome to that on CAF as I don't recall there being such a large concentrated influx coming to CAF at any one time.

Regardless of the answer, the welcome here is comforting and I am appreciative of it.

Thank you OrthodoxChristianity.net

We welcome everyone!  It brings both Anastasios and myself great satisfaction to see the site that started with a small handful of people blossom into the community it has become.  Check out a recent thread in Board News on the history of OC.net to learn more.

Robert
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 12, 2007, 11:44:23 PM
That's too bad. I'm glad to see you, Laka and Yeshua sticking up for Eastern/Oriental Catholicism on the new EC board.

I'll second that. I always appreciated Laka, Yeshua and Jimmy's posts.

And outside of the mentioned Syriac Fathers ;D, Apothuem.

There was another one from Steubenville, a Chaldean whose name began with an "R," who also made valuable contributions.  Is he still around too?

I feel like I'm in a displaced persons camp. >:(
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: PeterTheAleut on November 12, 2007, 11:45:39 PM
Do the moderators and admins welcome everyone on this forum - or just us refugees?
Oh, we try to welcome every new member of our forum, not just you "refugees". ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 13, 2007, 12:10:54 AM
Hello,

I asked the CAF if I could get access to the old archives to save some of my more memorable posts - and those of others. The response I got is:

We sympathize with the loss of posts important to you, but unfortunately
do not have the time and resources necessary to recover them for you.

ForumAdmin Staff
Catholic Answers Forums
(http://forums.catholic.com)


Bummer! When will I learn to never put off till tomorrow what you can backup today.  :)

Hello;  brother coder is it ...i liked the way you defended your  faith on catholic answers forum ,,you really put up some powerful responses in defense of what you believe,,,keep up the good work ,,,,brother stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 13, 2007, 12:16:02 AM
Yes, he was extremely fair to both sides. I always felt there was a lot more freedom to express views. Perhaps that's why he's now "retired." There were a great amount of threads that got out of hand, but I learned so much more from them. He probably got asked to take a break because of the huge freedom. Very few people got banned on the EC's...

"Retired" is another lie from that board...  They PAY their moderators, and Joe, who loved us Orthodox Christians and made sure that the few we had there were protected against the thousands of RC posters who would cheerfully have run us through, had they been given the chance, just as they are now doing to the EC's on the new section...  Joe needed the money he was making there - I pray he has found another job...  He was fair and protective at the same time, and I loved him, even though I still have the bruises of his ruler across the backs of my cyber-miscreantic hands!

He was terminated, and the termination was covered up, along with the rest of what they did...

Ghosty, another stand-up guy with whom I profoundly disagreed, but nevertheless utterly respected [he thinks there is no contradiction between the Creed with the Filioque in Latin and the Creed without it in Greek, for instance...] while sympathiizing with the move, because there was heat in the postings from the Orthodox there - eg the MORAL implications to the RC positions were DRAWN, rather than politely ignored - well, Ghosty is fed up and dismayed at what he is seeing them doing, and is about ready to leave - It is the cover-up that won't pass the sniff test that is driving him off...  And he was their best poster by far...

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 13, 2007, 12:16:49 AM
I'll second that. I always appreciated Laka, Yeshua and Jimmy's posts.

And outside of the mentioned Syriac Fathers ;D, Apothuem.
:laugh:

There was another one from Steubenville, a Chaldean whose name began with an "R," who also made valuable contributions.  Is he still around too?
Ronyodish? I can't think of any others who fit that description. Aside from very recently I haven't seen him around in a while.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 13, 2007, 12:29:39 AM
"Retired" is another lie from that board...  They PAY their moderators, and Joe, who loved us Orthodox Christians and made sure that the few we had there were protected against the thousands of RC posters who would cheerfully have run us through, had they been given the chance, just as they are now doing to the EC's on the new section...  Joe needed the money he was making there - I pray he has found another job...  He was fair and protective at the same time, and I loved him, even though I still have the bruises of his ruler across the backs of my cyber-miscreantic hands!

He was terminated, and the termination was covered up, along with the rest of what they did...

Ghosty, another stand-up guy with whom I profoundly disagreed, but nevertheless utterly respected [he thinks there is no contradiction between the Creed with the Filioque in Latin and the Creed without it in Greek, for instance...] while sympathiizing with the move, because there was heat in the postings from the Orthodox there - eg the MORAL implications to the RC positions were DRAWN, rather than politely ignored - well, Ghosty is fed up and dismayed at what he is seeing them doing, and is about ready to leave - It is the cover-up that won't pass the sniff test that is driving him off...  And he was their best poster by far...

Arsenios

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly, Joe Monahan was above reproach when it came to being fair across the theological spectrum of opinions.  I was suspended by Joe on a few occassions but I knew I deserved them.

Joe would always PM me with a kind message as to why he had to do what he did.  I always commended him on his fair handling of sensitive subjects.  I will miss his input on many subjects. He was helpful in directing the thread into calmer waters many times.  Yes, he will be missed.

If Joe Monahan gets the chance to view our posts here Im sure all of us refugees wish him success and good health in anything he intends doing in the future.

In Christ,

JoeS (StMarkEofE)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 13, 2007, 12:31:08 AM
Hello;  brother coder is it ...i liked the way you defended your  faith on catholic answers forum ,,you really put up some powerful responses in defense of what you believe,,,keep up the good work ,,,,brother stashko

I have always had the feeling on CA that the Roman west looked down their theological noses at us in the east for some reason.  They view us as an anachronism of sorts, out of touch with reality and not relevant in this modern world.  If this doesnt solidify my beliefs I dont know what else would. The whole point in this life is NOT to be relevant, at least that is what I was taugh anyway. My personal feelings, barring the idea that those left behind will now get their info on Eastern spiritualization which will now be filtered and scrutinized, is that they may have done us a good favor without us knowing it.  Actually, I feel as if a heavy burden has been lifted but I dont know why just yet. But I do feel a lot better.

PS, I do miss the voluminous choices of smily faces though. They seemed to convey the feeling of the post.  Maybe someone can come up with those animated version of the smily faces sometime?

 :pumpkin: 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 13, 2007, 12:32:16 AM
I feel like I'm in a displaced persons camp. >:(

Oh quitch'er whinin', Isa! ;)

I am OVERJOYED to see you here -

The theology is proven in deeds [praxis]...

We made a gallant foray into their camp and made off with many worthy spoils...

And shamed them properly, as they so richly deserved...

It would be a lot of fun to invite those in communion with the Pope to come over here to find out about what has been being hidden from them, and about Orthodoxy, should they have questions...  I do not know if their board would allow that...

I mean, it is as if a Nash Rambler, reliable and slow, got yoked up with an Indy Car...  They simply HAD to break off...  And there was no way to do it cleanly...  And now they are reviewing the whole of Eastern Christianity, before they allow anything to be made available to the list...  By their deeds shall they be known...

Should we have kept a lower profile and plundered them longer?  Maybe...  But I sure like the idea of exposing those hiding in the bushes for who they really are, and what they really will do...   By their doing it...  The only greater joy would be in seeing their repentance from having done it...

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 13, 2007, 12:41:11 AM
Oh quitch'er whinin', Isa! ;)

I am OVERJOYED to see you here -

The theology is proven in deeds [praxis]...

We made a gallant foray into their camp and made off with many worthy spoils...

And shamed them properly, as they so richly deserved...

It would be a lot of fun to invite those in communion with the Pope to come over here to find out about what has been being hidden from them, and about Orthodoxy, should they have questions...  I do not know if their board would allow that...

I mean, it is as if a Nash Rambler, reliable and slow, got yoked up with an Indy Car...  They simply HAD to break off...  And there was no way to do it cleanly...  And now they are reviewing the whole of Eastern Christianity, before they allow anything to be made available to the list...  By their deeds shall they be known...

Should we have kept a lower profile and plundered them longer?  Maybe...  But I sure like the idea of exposing those hiding in the bushes for who they really are, and what they really will do...   By their doing it...  The only greater joy would be in seeing their repentance from having done it...

Arsenios

Your post is most appropriate and makes a lot of sense.

JoeS
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 13, 2007, 01:00:11 AM
I have always had the feeling on CA that the Roman west looked down their theological noses at us in the east for some reason. 

PS, I do miss the voluminous choices of smily faces though. They seemed to convey the feeling of the post.  Maybe someone can come up with those animated version of the smily faces sometime?

 :pumpkin: 

Well, we Easterners are unschooled and theologically barbaric...we didn't have the scholastic learning of the West ;)

Oh, and I miss those smileys, too!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 13, 2007, 01:06:38 AM
Well, we Easterners are unschooled and theologically barbaric...we didn't have the scholastic learning of the West ;)

Oh, and I miss those smileys, too!
Not only that, we are paralyzed, stagnant and stuck in the 8th century. 8)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 13, 2007, 01:08:00 AM
Oh, and I miss those smileys, too!
If they aren't copyrighted, you could upload them to some image hosting service and manually link to them.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 13, 2007, 01:09:08 AM
Not only that, we are paralyzed, stagnant and stuck in the 8th century. 8)

Yes, wonderfully so!

JoeS
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 13, 2007, 01:17:03 AM
Your post is most appropriate and makes a lot of sense.

JoeS

They made that whole board as a place for Roman Catholics to hang out and talk about their faith...  And it was so well done that they attracted a LOT of readers [65,000??], and in the process, some pretty good apologists, and they expanded to have discussions with Protestants, and then, in a generous ecumenical mind, hoping for peace talks with their "other lung", the Eastern Orthodox Church, they opened up the Eastern Christianity board...  But the whole show was still primarily a place for Catholics to hang out and talk with each other...  They had their "toughs" to handle the Protestants, and the eastern Churches in communion with Rome were no problem, but when they ran into the EO's, they were simply outclassed in every way...  The Indy Car of the EO posters was a sledge hammer smashing a flea on an anvil, because the western mindset of the Roman Church in that Board was primarily a family show for their faithful...  They did not know what would come to them through their family oriented generosity...

And this in a way is reflected in their spirituality of service to the poor, vs our focus on the creation of saints in  monastic struggle and prayer...  Mother Theresa vs St. Gregory Palamas...  Where theology is relegated to the classrooms of Scholasticism, and true spirituality in service to the poor...  [Yet look what happened to poor Mother Theresa!]

So that when the family sedan of being nice to one another and keeping fuzzy on theological issues and no existing rigor of Church praxis of the Faith, they were simply outclassed and overrun...  Ghosty was not, but neither did his view hold up well... 

Their complaint that we were in their [eg family] living room and were behaving badly is reflective of the dismay they felt and the sense of betrayal they had at being run roughshod over by a small group of Orthodox posters who were both articulate and educated, like Isa, and inarticulate and uneducated, like me!  We all had a field day, and they are now sitting with the nightmares of their own deeds to eject the ungrateful plunderers of their ranks who do not respect Romes presumed "AUTHORITY"...

We went in there on the premise that Orthodoxy is authoritative without being authoritarian...  Bishops can err...  Any bishop can err...  Even one divinely illumined...

So that the more I think about what they did, the less I am inclined to hold their feet to the fire...  They have to deal with issues of conscience - It looks like they have sanitized [eg removed my posts and many others] from an old thread and re-posted it on "Why Would a Roman Catholic Convert to Orthodoxy?" - So it looks like they are TRYING to get at least some of the threads back on the boards, if somewhat neutered... 
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=196984


I mean, if that had happened to a bunch of parish Orthodox folks who had a board for their discussions, I do not think the results would have been much different...  Even though here, they are welcome, for we are not unaware of their purposes and needs...  I can't believe I am actually feeling SORRY FOR them...

Lord have Mercy!

Arsenios 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: marlo on November 13, 2007, 02:01:06 AM
hello there

i knew something like this would happen, i once told the EO posters on the CAF, that dont entertain conversion procedures asked to them since CAF is a catholic website and a little respect to the website is to be expected. they can use PM instead. However, i was bombarded with hate replies, as though  the EO posters owns the website. A little respect could prevented things. Listening is a great virtue.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 13, 2007, 02:49:37 AM
Yes, wonderfully so!

JoeS

Amen!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 13, 2007, 02:52:47 AM
hello there

i knew something like this would happen, i once told the EO posters on the CAF, that dont entertain conversion procedures asked to them since CAF is a catholic website and a little respect to the website is to be expected. they can use PM instead. However, i was bombarded with hate replies, as though  the EO posters owns the website. A little respect could prevented things. Listening is a great virtue.



Welcome, I remember you!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 13, 2007, 05:49:24 AM
Hey Everyone, I post over at CAF, but came over here from a link on the new Eastern Catholicism forum. I just wanted to suggest - since I never was part of the thing at the Eastern Christianity forum that it would be interesting to post some thread similar to those (with the exception of any personal attacks) on here. I would be interested in seeing these apologetic arguments that are so powerful that no Latin could answer them.

Catholig

"A" thread? <chuckle>

Take a few 'minutes' and peruse the 'Orthodox-Catholic Discussion' boards here. You'll find plenty; IIRC, the "Thou Art Peter' thread was a quite memorable.

LOL! :D "He don't know we very well, do he?"


The limb is strong, and the enemies don't shoot (well, at least the sane ones don't shoot much)... :D
Amen!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 13, 2007, 07:59:41 AM
I have to agree with my brethren that the closure of the Eastern Christianity Forum at CAF is a sad end to a place where dialogue did happen - although it was sometimes hot and heavy. Sadder still is the removal of the archived material from public accessibility. In addition to all of the debate, there were significant numbers of threads that involved no argumentation, but were purely informative and educational. They included whole threads heavy with photos of temples and iconostases that evidenced the heavenly beauty of which the Russian legates spoke on their return from Constantinople. Others were replete with links to all manner of informative sites and texts. The polemics of either side apart, it was a treasure trove of information - pure and simple.

These past few days, I've been posting at CAF, something of which I've not done much in a while. But, in looking at the new Eastern Catholicism Forum, it seemed to be populated chiefly by Latin Catholics with little or no knowledge or understanding of the East, and appearing to have as their mission to "out" Eastern Catholics as really being Orthodox in disguise. Thus, I felt compelled to wade in and offer some accurate answers to the genuine queries, the baiting ones, and the outright strange ones. It's not something that I'll do for long, I don't think. It shows every indication of fast becoming the same type of forum that one sees on all the other Latin boards which have an Eastern Catholic forum - a place where the curious will come and innocently ask a question - only to receive an erroneous answer offered with certitude by a Latin Catholic, based on what he "once heard" or "remembers reading".

And looking at the few lonely threads regarding Orthodoxy on the Non-Catholic Religions Forum there is too depressing to deserve comment.

In short measure, it will again come down to there being only 2 places on-line where Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox "dialogue, discuss, debate, educate, and are educated about each others' Churches" (think that was more or less the way that my friend and brother, Joe, used to describe the purpose of the former EC forum at CAF) - here and at ByzCath.


I don't get a lot of time to post lately at either site, because of the time demands of a project on which I'm working, but it's good to see so many of the CA regulars gathered here - both those of us who have been here in the past and those who've newly found it.

Many years,

Neil   
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 13, 2007, 08:12:36 AM
Quote
8 - As noted elsewhere, the old EC forum has been pulled for review. We hope to return reference material to the new EC forum in short order.

Yikes! This sounds like they will only 'resurrect' stuff pertaining to Eastern Catholicism, not Orthodoxy.  :'(

I loved Joe Monahan's moderating too, especially his explanations for closing threads, complete with humorous chiding and lamenting over the topic that is now 'beyond redemption' etc.

Having browsed through EO/RC discussions here, I'm happy to say it IS possible to have open and honest disagreement without enmity.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 13, 2007, 09:51:10 AM
Hello,

Hello;  brother coder is it ...i liked the way you defended your  faith on catholic answers forum ,,you really put up some powerful responses in defense of what you believe,,,keep up the good work ,,,,brother stashko
Yes, it is I. I am flattered by your comments. I choose Athanasios in honor of Saint Athanasios of Alexandria (Greek spelling, Athanasius was already taken I believe). I can't remember clearly why I didn't use JMJ_coder, as this is the only forum that I don't use it.

But, anyways, it is good to see so many of the old gang here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 13, 2007, 09:53:37 AM
Hello,

The whole point in this life is NOT to be relevant, at least that is what I was taugh anyway.
I don't know about that. I don't think it is proper to actively try to be irrelevant. I was taught to have a detachment from caring whether you are relevant or not. Proclaim the Truth, in-season/out-of-season, convenient/inconvenient.

Peace
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 13, 2007, 09:59:14 AM
Hello,

And this in a way is reflected in their spirituality of service to the poor, vs our focus on the creation of saints in  monastic struggle and prayer...  Mother Theresa vs St. Gregory Palamas...  Where theology is relegated to the classrooms of Scholasticism, and true spirituality in service to the poor...  [Yet look what happened to poor Mother Theresa!]
I always see true spirituality (regardless of tradition) as combining both prayer and service. Remember Faith working unto Charity - and Christ tells us that what you do the least of His brethren, you do to Him (i.e., clothe naked, feed hungry, visit sick, etc.). We are also to pray without ceasing (though this doesn't necessarily mean active vocal and/or mental prayer).

As an aside, to discuss Mother Teresa (if it is even any of our business), we would have to have a nice long dialogue on what exactly the Catholic Church means by a dark night.

Peace.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 13, 2007, 10:36:07 AM
I believe that C Answers found themselves in a quandary. I cannot help but to see myself as an example. Born and raised Roman Catholic, I canonically switched to the Ruthenian Catholic Church after 35 + years. As a Byzantine Catholic, I was exposed to everything Orthodox. When I found C Answers, I was a staunch defender of Rome and I debated rigorously with the Orthodox members in defence of communion with Rome. At times I had some monumental battles--hi Bob!  ;D

But as I studied the faith, I slowly came to learn that my arguments were not holding as much water as I had anticipated. After much study, prayer, and discernment I came home to Holy Orthodoxy.  Suddenly, I found myself shoulder to shoulder with the same people that I vigorously opposed. The Roman Catholics were not pleased.  I received some disconcerting private messages.

In short, I discovered that you cannot oppose the truth. Holy Orthodoxy effortlessly answers all Roman Catholic objections. The cause of my conversion was not the Orthodox posters at Catholic Answers. It was the Holy Spirit revealing the truth to my heart.  Ironically, I believe that more people may consider Holy Orthodoxy after they witness the oppressive measures that were taken by the moderators.

I learned much from my years on that forum. I thank all of my Orthodox and Eastern Catholic brethren for the wonderful information they contributed. And I ask forgiveness for all I may have offended.

Special thanks to Arsenios and others who posted the information about the movie "Ostrov".  I weep every time I watch it. This movie truly conveys the essence of Holy Orthodoxy!

Peace and blessings to all!

Mickey
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 13, 2007, 10:53:41 AM
I have to agree with my brethren that the closure of the Eastern Christianity Forum at CAF is a sad end to a place where dialogue did happen - although it was sometimes hot and heavy. Sadder still is the removal of the archived material from public accessibility. In addition to all of the debate, there were significant numbers of threads that involved no argumentation, but were purely informative and educational. They included whole threads heavy with photos of temples and iconostases that evidenced the heavenly beauty of which the Russian legates spoke on their return from Constantinople. Others were replete with links to all manner of informative sites and texts. The polemics of either side apart, it was a treasure trove of information - pure and simple.

These past few days, I've been posting at CAF, something of which I've not done much in a while. But, in looking at the new Eastern Catholicism Forum, it seemed to be populated chiefly by Latin Catholics with little or no knowledge or understanding of the East, and appearing to have as their mission to "out" Eastern Catholics as really being Orthodox in disguise. Thus, I felt compelled to wade in and offer some accurate answers to the genuine queries, the baiting ones, and the outright strange ones. It's not something that I'll do for long, I don't think. It shows every indication of fast becoming the same type of forum that one sees on all the other Latin boards which have an Eastern Catholic forum - a place where the curious will come and innocently ask a question - only to receive an erroneous answer offered with certitude by a Latin Catholic, based on what he "once heard" or "remembers reading".

And looking at the few lonely threads regarding Orthodoxy on the Non-Catholic Religions Forum there is too depressing to deserve comment...
 
Many years,

Neil   
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Hello Neil!

It's nice to run into you again!

I agree with everything you have stated here. I always appreciated the informative and detailed contributions you and others made, and the reference threads Joe put together. What a shame...

I hope to run into you more often now that I am "freelancing" and not committed to one forum.  ;D

In Christ,
Michael
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 13, 2007, 10:58:57 AM
P.S.--God bless Joe Monahan! He moderated the now defunct forum with much wisdom and charity. Joe will always be in my prayers.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 13, 2007, 11:00:42 AM
I believe that C Answers found themselves in a quandary. I cannot help but to see myself as an example. ...
Peace and blessings to all!

Mickey
Hi Mickey,
Thanks for the beautiful testimonial. Your story seems so much like mine, I feel like we have known each other forever.

I also (I am sure you remember  ;) ) made the final decision to convert while posting as a Ruthenian on CAF and ByzCath.

Small world...

In Christ, always

Michael
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 13, 2007, 11:01:29 AM
I believe that C Answers found themselves in a quandary. I cannot help but to see myself as an example. Born and raised Roman Catholic, I canonically switched to the Ruthenian Catholic Church after 35 + years. As a Byzantine Catholic, I was exposed to everything Orthodox. When I found C Answers, I was a staunch defender of Rome and I debated rigorously with the Orthodox members in defence of communion with Rome. At times I had some monumental battles--hi Bob!  ;D

But as I studied the faith, I slowly came to learn that my arguments were not holding as much water as I had anticipated. After much study, prayer, and discernment I came home to Holy Orthodoxy.  Suddenly, I found myself shoulder to shoulder with the same people that I vigorously opposed. The Roman Catholics were not pleased.  I received some disconcerting private messages.

In short, I discovered that you cannot oppose the truth. Holy Orthodoxy effortlessly answers all Roman Catholic objections. The cause of my conversion was not the Orthodox posters at Catholic Answers. It was the Holy Spirit revealing the truth to my heart.  Ironically, I believe that more people may consider Holy Orthodoxy after they witness the oppressive measures that were taken by the moderators.

I learned much from my years on that forum. I thank all of my Orthodox and Eastern Catholic brethren for the wonderful information they contributed. And I ask forgiveness for all I may have offended.

Special thanks to Arsenios and others who posted the information about the movie "Ostrov".  I weep every time I watch it. This movie truly conveys the essence of Holy Orthodoxy!

Peace and blessings to all!

Mickey
Amazing story Mickey, and very well balanced. Thanks.
Being "cradle" Orthodox, I personally love hearing about people's different journeys to Orthodoxy, and I've watched many of these journeys in the past few years on OCnet. To give you guys some idea of how insulated my life is: I never knew Catholic Answers Forum even existed before you guys started this thread!
I'm also learning a lot about being a moderator listening to you guys, and the responsibility it carries. I really feel for the moderator you guys mention, Joe Monahan, and you all obviously liked him.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 13, 2007, 11:04:55 AM
Hi Mickey,
Thanks for the beautiful testimonial. Your story seems so much like mine, I feel like we have known each other forever.
Perhaps we are long lost brothers!  :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 13, 2007, 11:06:46 AM
P.S.--God bless Joe Monahan! He moderated the now defunct forum with much wisdom and charity. Joe will always be in my prayers.
Mine too.

I don't know how people can do that kind of thing for very long, here or elsewhere. Seems like it would take the fun out of it.

It's like babysitting sometimes, having to pull the kids apart and make 'em sit in the corner.  :-[

To me, it must be a burnout position. I nearly quit posting altogether a number of times in disgust, and I never had the responsibility of reviewing everybody elses junk...

Peace!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 13, 2007, 12:03:50 PM
I don't know how people can do that kind of thing for very long, here or elsewhere. Seems like it would take the fun out of it.
au contraire. It's fun. You get special jedi powers with which to torment trolls.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 13, 2007, 12:11:29 PM
hello there

i knew something like this would happen, i once told the EO posters on the CAF, that dont entertain conversion procedures asked to them since CAF is a catholic website and a little respect to the website is to be expected. they can use PM instead. However, i was bombarded with hate replies, as though  the EO posters owns the website. A little respect could prevented things. Listening is a great virtue.



"However, i was bombarded with hate replies, as though  the EO posters owns the website. A little respect could prevented things. Listening is a great virtue."

Dont you think this is a little strong?  I dont know what you consider hate but the term was used frequently and with gusto over there for seemingly hard facts.  This seems to be the fall back position of those who find themselves in a pickle trying to answer good, to-the-point questions.  Apparently, there was those who had thinned skins and had a great deal of trouble debating issues and the only way to counter our points was to throw the "hate" term at us.


Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 13, 2007, 12:42:45 PM
I believe that C Answers found themselves in a quandary. I cannot help but to see myself as an example. Born and raised Roman Catholic, I canonically switched to the Ruthenian Catholic Church after 35 + years. As a Byzantine Catholic, I was exposed to everything Orthodox. When I found C Answers, I was a staunch defender of Rome and I debated rigorously with the Orthodox members in defence of communion with Rome. At times I had some monumental battles--hi Bob!  ;D

But as I studied the faith, I slowly came to learn that my arguments were not holding as much water as I had anticipated. After much study, prayer, and discernment I came home to Holy Orthodoxy.  Suddenly, I found myself shoulder to shoulder with the same people that I vigorously opposed. The Roman Catholics were not pleased.  I received some disconcerting private messages.

In short, I discovered that you cannot oppose the truth. Holy Orthodoxy effortlessly answers all Roman Catholic objections. The cause of my conversion was not the Orthodox posters at Catholic Answers. It was the Holy Spirit revealing the truth to my heart.  Ironically, I believe that more people may consider Holy Orthodoxy after they witness the oppressive measures that were taken by the moderators.

I learned much from my years on that forum. I thank all of my Orthodox and Eastern Catholic brethren for the wonderful information they contributed. And I ask forgiveness for all I may have offended.

Special thanks to Arsenios and others who posted the information about the movie "Ostrov".  I weep every time I watch it. This movie truly conveys the essence of Holy Orthodoxy!

Peace and blessings to all!

Mickey

I was just wondering what happened to you! Yes, I recall a few of the comments from some Roman Catholics after your conversion...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 13, 2007, 01:09:00 PM
Dont you think this is a little strong?  I dont know what you consider hate but the term was used frequently and with gusto over there for seemingly hard facts.  This seems to be the fall back position of those who find themselves in a pickle trying to answer good, to-the-point questions.  Apparently, there was those who had thinned skins and had a great deal of trouble debating issues and the only way to counter our points was to throw the "hate" term at us.
Amen. It happened on both "sides," but the one thing that almost made me stop going there was the application of the label "anti-Catholic" to anyone who disagreed with the Catholic posters.

The RCC left the Church and should return to its Orthodox roots? Anti-Catholic.
The pope was never a supreme ruler? Anti-Catholic.
The Filioque is not an acceptable addition to the Creed? Anti-Catholic.
No comment on the validity of Catholic sacraments? Anti-Catholic.

Then things like "Orthodox are really just ethnic-ghetto Protestants because they don't have a supreme head" just get winked at.  ::)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 13, 2007, 01:33:43 PM
Thanks to JMJ for the heads up about this forum.

I think in reality, nothing much has really changed over the last few months on CAF, except that a few notably bad posters came along and drew attention to the Eastern Christianity forum where once it lay in relative obscurity.

I suppose it was inevitable really, and with Joe gone, and most posters moving over here, there isn't really much incentive to remain at CAF.

Fr Ambrose will be sorely missed if he doesn't hop over to these new boards :D

Peace and God Bless!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 13, 2007, 01:38:08 PM
I also (I am sure you remember  ;) ) made the final decision to convert while posting as a Ruthenian on CAF and ByzCath.

Michael, my beloved brother,

It seems like a decade ago that you PM'ed me on ByzCath and told me that you had reached that decision and I was one of the first to know. (If memory serves, Bill/ Ghazar had made his decision to go from Armenian Catholicism to Armenian Orthodoxy not long before.) I don't even remember that we were yet also at CAF (or that it even existed) back then - ah, just realized that you're talking about when you were finally received into Holy Orthodoxy - old age slows putting 2 and 2 together  :-[

It is, as always, a pleasure to post with you, my friend. (With all due respect to our hosts here) it's a poor substitute for chatting in person, but it will have to suffice until I finally get an opportunity to visit Chicago and lunch with you, Al, and whomever else we can scare up  ;D

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 13, 2007, 01:44:04 PM
Amen. It happened on both "sides," but the one thing that almost made me stop going there was the application of the label "anti-Catholic" to anyone who disagreed with the Catholic posters.

The RCC left the Church and should return to its Orthodox roots? Anti-Catholic.
The pope was never a supreme ruler? Anti-Catholic.
The Filioque is not an acceptable addition to the Creed? Anti-Catholic.
No comment on the validity of Catholic sacraments? Anti-Catholic.

Then things like "Orthodox are really just ethnic-ghetto Protestants because they don't have a supreme head" just get winked at.  ::)

wynd,

Were those comments posted on Joe's watch, in the aftermath, or in the days prior to the creation of a distinct Eastern sub-forum? They have the ring of the early days there - about which Father Ambrose and I have, several times, reminisced in PM, wondering how anyone from the East survived.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 13, 2007, 02:02:01 PM
...The RCC left the Church and should return to its Orthodox roots? Anti-Catholic.
The pope was never a supreme ruler? Anti-Catholic.
The Filioque is not an acceptable addition to the Creed? Anti-Catholic.
No comment on the validity of Catholic sacraments? Anti-Catholic.

Precondition for a meaningfull debate is possibility of each "bloc" to present their stance and the reasoning of it. CAF did have that. And there was enough educated and knowleadgable of each "bloc" to offer reasonings. And there used to be more than just two opposing sides - at least two "flavors" of RCC, plus EC, plus usually more than one "flavor" of us, so called EO.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 13, 2007, 02:28:30 PM
wynd,

Were those comments posted on Joe's watch, in the aftermath, or in the days prior to the creation of a distinct Eastern sub-forum? They have the ring of the early days there - about which Father Ambrose and I have, several times, reminisced in PM, wondering how anyone from the East survived.

Many years,

Neil
I came to CAF in summer 2005, so I wasn't around before the EC forum was made. The particular comments and two users I have in mind are from this past summer (this sentiment popped up every now and then, but these two were really angry and insistent). Neither was banned, although I believe both were briefly suspended.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papist on November 13, 2007, 02:38:29 PM
I was just wondering if it would be acceptable if Eastern Orthodox  converts to Catholicism started setting up threads here celebrating their new found communion with Rome? The opposite was happening at the CAF.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 13, 2007, 02:57:22 PM
Care to point out some threads over there for our review?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 13, 2007, 02:59:16 PM
I was just wondering if it would be acceptable if Eastern Orthodox  converts to Catholicism started setting up threads here celebrating their new found communion with Rome? The opposite was happening at the CAF.
Those who announced their conversion did so out of great joy and peace. I assure you that it was not done to "rub it in your face".  When the moderator (Joe) asked that the converts communicate privately, it stopped.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 13, 2007, 03:46:23 PM
I was just wondering if it would be acceptable if Eastern Orthodox  converts to Catholicism started setting up threads here celebrating their new found communion with Rome? The opposite was happening at the CAF.

Ask the moderator. It should make for some interesting dialogue.

JoeS
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 13, 2007, 04:56:28 PM
I believe that C Answers found themselves in a quandary. I cannot help but to see myself as an example. Born and raised Roman Catholic, I canonically switched to the Ruthenian Catholic Church after 35 + years. As a Byzantine Catholic, I was exposed to everything Orthodox. When I found C Answers, I was a staunch defender of Rome and I debated rigorously with the Orthodox members in defence of communion with Rome. At times I had some monumental battles--hi Bob!  ;D

But as I studied the faith, I slowly came to learn that my arguments were not holding as much water as I had anticipated. After much study, prayer, and discernment I came home to Holy Orthodoxy.  Suddenly, I found myself shoulder to shoulder with the same people that I vigorously opposed. The Roman Catholics were not pleased.  I received some disconcerting private messages.

In short, I discovered that you cannot oppose the truth. Holy Orthodoxy effortlessly answers all Roman Catholic objections. The cause of my conversion was not the Orthodox posters at Catholic Answers. It was the Holy Spirit revealing the truth to my heart.  Ironically, I believe that more people may consider Holy Orthodoxy after they witness the oppressive measures that were taken by the moderators.

I learned much from my years on that forum. I thank all of my Orthodox and Eastern Catholic brethren for the wonderful information they contributed. And I ask forgiveness for all I may have offended.

Special thanks to Arsenios and others who posted the information about the movie "Ostrov".  I weep every time I watch it. This movie truly conveys the essence of Holy Orthodoxy!

Peace and blessings to all!

Mickey

Glad to see you here. ;D

I happened on the forum as you were just being received.

Just before the ax fell, someone resecitated an old thread, and I saw your postings then.  I had to check the profile to make sure it was the same person, especially the posting "I will never leave Rome."

I don't know if magisterium at CAF were checking PMs, because myself and those more worthy received messages from people (and I've already received some here), that they attributed a part of their journey home to reading posts.  Myself, I was just spouting off in defense of the Faith as I received (I used to burn icons, so I have a lot to make up for).  Needless to say, that might have played a role in the interdict.

So, having come home, I hope our former hosts, now guests, will feel at home here.  I'd miss the debate and dialogue otherwise.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 13, 2007, 05:03:03 PM
Thanks to JMJ for the heads up about this forum.

I think in reality, nothing much has really changed over the last few months on CAF, except that a few notably bad posters came along and drew attention to the Eastern Christianity forum where once it lay in relative obscurity.

I suppose it was inevitable really, and with Joe gone, and most posters moving over here, there isn't really much incentive to remain at CAF.

Fr Ambrose will be sorely missed if he doesn't hop over to these new boards :D

Peace and God Bless!

Magic!  I apologize, I had failed to mention you among our Syriac Fathers!  I need more coffee.

Yes, thanks JMJ a/k/a Athanasios.  Btw our discussion on the Pentapolis (and I believe we had one on the language of First Century Rome) are among the postings I regret have entered limbo.

I hope Joe is in better hands.

I've emailed Fr. Ambrose through CAF, I hope he got it.  I'd hate a delayed parousia. :(
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 13, 2007, 05:05:41 PM
Michael, my beloved brother,

It seems like a decade ago that you PM'ed me on ByzCath and told me that you had reached that decision and I was one of the first to know. (If memory serves, Bill/ Ghazar had made his decision to go from Armenian Catholicism to Armenian Orthodoxy not long before.) I don't even remember that we were yet also at CAF (or that it even existed) back then - ah, just realized that you're talking about when you were finally received into Holy Orthodoxy - old age slows putting 2 and 2 together  :-[

It is, as always, a pleasure to post with you, my friend. (With all due respect to our hosts here) it's a poor substitute for chatting in person, but it will have to suffice until I finally get an opportunity to visit Chicago and lunch with you, Al, and whomever else we can scare up  ;D

Many years,

Neil

Are we congregated in Chicago?  I seemed to notice a number of posters from here (and Australia/New Zealand).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papist on November 13, 2007, 05:18:38 PM
Those who announced their conversion did so out of great joy and peace. I assure you that it was not done to "rub it in your face".  When the moderator (Joe) asked that the converts communicate privately, it stopped.

The fact that it was allowed on a Catholic forum in the first place was completely unacceptable.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 13, 2007, 05:27:16 PM
The fact that it was allowed on a Catholic forum in the first place was completely unacceptable.
Well, one thing is for sure---Catholic Answers agrees with you.  :-\
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 13, 2007, 05:32:24 PM
My husband and I were intending to donate to CA. I am now quite glad that we didn't. Now this lovely site will get what little financial support we can give ;D

I was sad when the EC site was changed. But then I thought that at least I could read the archives. But now I can't even do THAT anymore. Taking the archives away just seems mean spirited.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ronyodish on November 13, 2007, 05:34:31 PM
Quote
There was another one from Steubenville, a Chaldean whose name began with an "R," who also made valuable contributions.  Is he still around too?
Quote
Ronyodish? I can't think of any others who fit that description. Aside from very recently I haven't seen him around in a while.

I've just signed up.

God bless,

Rony
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 13, 2007, 06:03:05 PM
Hello,

Thanks to JMJ for the heads up about this forum.

I think in reality, nothing much has really changed over the last few months on CAF, except that a few notably bad posters came along and drew attention to the Eastern Christianity forum where once it lay in relative obscurity.

I suppose it was inevitable really, and with Joe gone, and most posters moving over here, there isn't really much incentive to remain at CAF.

Fr Ambrose will be sorely missed if he doesn't hop over to these new boards :D

Peace and God Bless!
Welcome to the reunion.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 13, 2007, 06:05:56 PM
Hello,

Yes, thanks JMJ a/k/a Athanasios.  Btw our discussion on the Pentapolis (and I believe we had one on the language of First Century Rome) are among the postings I regret have entered limbo.
I remember that. You linked an article for me to read, and I put it on my growing to read list. I sure hope I bookmarked it.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 13, 2007, 06:06:22 PM
I just asked what's with Joe Monahan at CAF. I hope they don't take it as a provocation and just answer.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 13, 2007, 06:15:08 PM
I've just signed up.

God bless,

Rony

ܫܠܡܐ ܠܟ
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 13, 2007, 06:16:39 PM
I just asked what's with Joe Monahan at CAF. I hope they don't take it as a provocation and just answer.

Don't hold your breath. I just saw the announcement of his replacement, and your post.

Your name might be blotted out of the book of life.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 13, 2007, 06:21:23 PM
Hello,

They have just announced a new moderator for the new Eastern Catholicism forum. Joe is in retirement, according to his profile. So is Marian Carroll, who I believe also helped moderate the old EC forum.

Of course, the truth is the Illuminati really have them locked up in the Vatican basement.  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 13, 2007, 07:32:16 PM
The fact that it was allowed on a Catholic forum in the first place was completely unacceptable.

On the face of it, I would agree. We would not allow that on our Convert board, but do allow debate on the Orthodox-Catholic board. I assume the mission of CAF was to taut Roman Catholicism and to proselytize anyone non-RC, including the Orthodox. I also assume there were conversions to the RC there and they so stated that in the ECF. Or no?
If not, then the CAF failed and cut their losses.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 13, 2007, 08:14:14 PM
I just asked what's with Joe Monahan at CAF. I hope they don't take it as a provocation and just answer.

They still carry his name on the moderator list but it isnt in bold or color highlighted. So, I have to presume he is still involved even in a minimal way.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 13, 2007, 08:16:17 PM
Hello,

They have just announced a new moderator for the new Eastern Catholicism forum. Joe is in retirement, according to his profile. So is Marian Carroll, who I believe also helped moderate the old EC forum.

Of course, the truth is the Illuminati really have them locked up in the Vatican basement.  ;D

You know, I half way believe you.

JoeS 8)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jetavan on November 13, 2007, 08:32:22 PM
how many years did it take to make that many posts?
that's alot!

I think Fr Ambrose took at least 3 years (maybe less!) to reach 18,997 posts. I'm not sure if I remember him from the pre-Eastern-Christianity-Forum days, but he sure burned the servers from his Hobbit-Home in Middle Earth. ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 13, 2007, 08:49:54 PM
Magic!  I apologize, I had failed to mention you among our Syriac Fathers!  I need more coffee.

Yes, thanks JMJ a/k/a Athanasios.  Btw our discussion on the Pentapolis (and I believe we had one on the language of First Century Rome) are among the postings I regret have entered limbo.

I hope Joe is in better hands.

I've emailed Fr. Ambrose through CAF, I hope he got it.  I'd hate a delayed parousia. :(

Syriac father! Great :) Better late than never!

Fr. Ambrose did respond to one of my emails from CAF, but not my reply to his reply. I hope he is still ok!

Peace and God Bless!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 13, 2007, 08:58:23 PM
I just asked what's with Joe Monahan at CAF. I hope they don't take it as a provocation and just answer.

Just got the "answer"--He's retired. Period. :-X

Hey! Look! I'm a Jr. Member! Yeah!!! Soon I'll have 18,000 posts like Fr. A! ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 13, 2007, 09:00:04 PM
Invite him here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 13, 2007, 09:09:15 PM
Just got the "answer"--He's retired. Period. :-X
Is that "he's retired" or "he has been "retired""?

Invite him here.
Good idea!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 13, 2007, 09:13:40 PM
Hello,

Hey! Look! I'm a Jr. Member! Yeah!!! Soon I'll have 18,000 posts like Fr. A! ;)
You better get a move on it. As soon as Father Ambrose starts posting here, all bets are off.  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 13, 2007, 10:16:02 PM
I got this rather strange email just now. I have also printed my reply below:


Dear Mark,
     As an RC priest who for some time has been looking wistfully
Eastwards I would very much like to view some of those pieces wherein
Orthodox defenders of the Faith apparently caused these RC crusaders to
throw down their shields and flee the field of battle. About twenty
years ago I had a somewhat similar experience with their leader both by
mail and in person where I found this individual does not like questions
that go beyond the usual questions asked him by quasi-illiterate
fundamentalists. Also, he has for the last seven or eight years on his
staff, a most intelligent and well-read individual who I suspect does
quite a bit of writing for his publication, but because of the fact that
as a con-man he has hurt so many people here in the Carolinas as well as
in California (and I suspect elsewhere) that he does not dare use his
own name. Were the articles dealing with Orthodoxy signed?
     I would very much appreciate if you could xerox all pages of this
forum that you have. I do not have a computer and WebTV is limited in
what it is able to reproduce. So you could help this priest who is very
close to entering Orthodoxy by mailing me whatever material from that
forum that you have. I will of course send you a check for whatever it
costs you.
     Thank you and God bless,
      Name deleted at present, pending future decision
(((( I have deleted the snail mail address)))))
-----------------------------------------------------------
Father,

Not only did they drop the 'Eastern Forum but they banned for life many of the regular Orthodox posters and they took off the archieve the many years of discussions from that forum. The long time RC moderator of the Board has suddenly "retired"... It was a real live rootin tooten Monday Night Massacre...Shame on them !

I would suggest that you go over to OrthodoxCrhistianity.net   http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php   

There is a  thread there where most all of the Orthodox folks from old forum have gone to discuss what happened and to make that site their new home. A few of the RCC folks are beginning to migrate over as well to continue talking about the issues. One guys said he felt like he is in a displaced persons camp :)

  Some folks had saved a few of the threads on their computers so you can ask to read what is available. There are some really excellent Orthodox posters there that can be of service to you and answer your questions I am sure.

Marc

I have temporarily deleted the name of the author of this e-mail until it can be shown that the e-mail's author has given permission to have his identity disclosed on the Internet.

This post will be returned to its orginakl state once this proof has been disclosed.

+Fr Chris



Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 13, 2007, 10:25:10 PM
You got this 'unsolicited?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papa Gregorio on November 13, 2007, 10:30:56 PM
It's a lamentable state of affairs when extreme measures are taken to purge vigorous dialogue, moderators are "retired" under mysterious circumstances and an entire forum replete with great bits of information is whisked away to cyber-purgatory, it seems, for more 'purification'. After limiting my participation there I lurked around frequently, content to merely observe some enjoyable discussions from the sidelines. I think I can say that great majority of Orthodox, Eastern Catholic and Roman Catholic participants did much to build bridges and foster friendship and understanding, and part of this process involved challenging and defending our respective doctrines or positions. I'd have to say that the emergence (or rather re-emergence) of certain provocative and antagonistic posters in the last few weeks of the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum accelerated matters to where they are now.

I greatly appreciate the presence of our Roman/Eastern Catholic brethren from the CA forum. There's a great deal that unites us, and I extend my warmest wishes in Christ to you all. Let's continue the dialogue.

 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 13, 2007, 10:38:54 PM
He might be here already (under another name, ya' never know).  ;)


My post above there got me permanently banned. Unbelievable, but no big loss. Oh, entire thread disappeared as well.


Welcome, Jimmy.  :)


P.S.: Pittsburgher?
:o
Yes, I am from the burgh.  How did you know I was a Pittsburgher?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 13, 2007, 10:43:26 PM
It's a lamentable state of affairs when measures are taken to purge vigorous dialogue, moderators are "retired" under mysterious circumstances and an entire forum replete with great bits of information is whisked away to cyber-purgatory, it seems, for more 'purification'. After limiting my participation there I lurked around frequently, content to merely observe some enjoyable discussions from the sidelines. I think I can say that great majority of Orthodox, Eastern Catholic and Roman Catholic participants did much to build bridges and foster friendship and understanding, and part of this process involved challenging and defending our respective doctrines or positions. I'd have to say that the emergence (or rather re-emergence) of certain provocative and antagonistic posters in the last few weeks of the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum accelerated matters to where they are now.

I greatly appreciate the presence of our Roman/Eastern Catholic brethren from the CA forum. There's a great deal that unites us, and I extend my warmest wishes in Christ to you all. Let's continue the dialogue.

 

Welcome! It's like the CA Forum all over again, except without those sacred threads (may they rest in peace ;) :laugh:)!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 13, 2007, 11:08:10 PM
The only thing I can think of as specifying me as a pittsburgher is the icon in my picture of St. Nimatullah.  The icon is from my church.  Other than that I can't think of anything.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ronyodish on November 13, 2007, 11:27:34 PM
Quote
ܫܠܡܐ ܠ

Bshayna  :)

I'm not sure how to add to this forum the Syriac script.  How did you import it to this forum?

God bless,

Rony
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 13, 2007, 11:37:39 PM
Dear new members,
Once again, a hearty welcome to you all!
One point I should like to make though, is that while this thread discusses the current situation you have all found yourselves in, you really shouldn't limit yourselves to it. For example, some people are asking technical questions about how OCnet works in this thread, but their question may not be seen here, or the answer will be lost as this thread continues to grow. Such questions should be asked in the "technical issues" forum.
I think it's a good idea if you guys also explore the rest of the forum to see the best place for your posts. They may not be seen if you just limit yourselves to this thread.
Once again, welcome to all of you!

George
(Global Moderator)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 13, 2007, 11:51:24 PM
The only thing I can think of as specifying me as a pittsburgher is the icon in my picture of St. Nimatullah.  The icon is from my church.  Other than that I can't think of anything.

Sorry Jimmy. My apologies. I sort of misused my moderator magic. Won't happen again. But I do like to keep our SW PA contingent growing.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 13, 2007, 11:58:04 PM
Sorry Jimmy. My apologies. I sort of misused my moderator magic. Won't happen again. But I do like to keep our SW PA contingent growing.

I am not offended or anything, just a little surprised.  When someone knows something about you that you haven't revealed to them it is a bit surprising.  It is interesting.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 14, 2007, 12:04:39 AM
Not only did they drop the 'Eastern Forum but they banned for life many of the regular Orthodox posters and they took off the archieve the many years of discussions from that forum. The long time RC moderator of the Board has suddenly "retired"... It was a real live rootin tooten Monday Night Massacre...Shame on them !
Marc,

Many of the threads are still available in the Google cache. The catch is, you need to know the titles of the threads to search for them.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 14, 2007, 02:57:59 AM
Sorry Jimmy. My apologies. I sort of misused my moderator magic. Won't happen again. But I do like to keep our SW PA contingent growing.

How about SE PA?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 14, 2007, 03:00:53 AM
Marc,

Many of the threads are still available in the Google cache. The catch is, you need to know the titles of the threads to search for them.

Looks like they didn't bury it deep enough...;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 14, 2007, 04:40:09 AM
Are we congregated in Chicago?  I seemed to notice a number of posters from here (and Australia/New Zealand).

Isa,

Over the years, here, at ByzCath, and at CAF's old EC Forum as well, there was a contingent of Chicagoans of varying ecclesia - Michael/Hesychios, Al/a pilgrim, Carson/Gregory Palamas, Amado/Amadeus, Matthew/Matthew P, all come to mind immediately (and I know that I'm missing at least a couple). I have a long-standing love affair with the Windy City and, not infrequently, Michael, Al, and I in particular have speculated about my hopes to revisit there some day and have the blessing of actually meeting and embracing. And, if it ever comes to pass, you're invited.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 14, 2007, 04:44:43 AM
Is that "he's retired" or "he has been "retired""?

George,

To answer your question, I happen to know for a fact that Joe, who himself is an Eastern Catholic (Melkite), "has been retired"

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 14, 2007, 04:52:06 AM
To answer your question, I happen to know for a fact that Joe, who himself is an Eastern Catholic (Melkite), "has been retired"

Well, you should invite him to join the reunion party!

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 14, 2007, 05:00:31 AM
To answer your question, I happen to know for a fact that Joe, who himself is an Eastern Catholic (Melkite), "has been retired"
That's sad.  I always found him to be fair to all those who posted.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 14, 2007, 05:03:50 AM
Marc,

Many of the threads are still available in the Google cache. The catch is, you need to know the titles of the threads to search for them.
I don't remember any of the thread titles that I participated in, but I know that I usually posted on issues surrounding "grace" (i.e., divine energy) and the "filioque."
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 14, 2007, 05:24:18 AM
Bshayna  :)

I'm not sure how to add to this forum the Syriac script.  How did you import it to this forum?

God bless,

Rony

Easy, my favorite way.

I cheated.

Went to www.biblos.com, got a verse with the vocab (or letters) from the Pshitta, cut, paste, post, voila!

I notice here, though, that in a lot of posts etc. here I get gibberish (%&* etc), so I don't know why the script is not picking up there, especially from the context I gather they are quoting Greek.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 14, 2007, 05:42:33 AM
I notice here, though, that in a lot of posts etc. here I get gibberish (%&* etc), so I don't know why the script is not picking up there, especially from the context I gather they are quoting Greek.
I know the reason, but I refuse to answer in this thread. ;)
Read: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13287.msg184484.html#msg184484
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 14, 2007, 10:03:11 AM
Over the years, here, at ByzCath, and at CAF's old EC Forum as well, there was a contingent of Chicagoans of varying ecclesia - Michael/Hesychios, Al/a pilgrim, Carson/Gregory Palamas, Amado/Amadeus, Matthew/Matthew P, all come to mind immediately (and I know that I'm missing at least a couple).
I'm from there too. Can you remember anyone else?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 14, 2007, 12:28:13 PM
I'm from there too. Can you remember anyone else?

I was born in Aurora, Ill.  Does that count  ;D?  But that was ages and ages and ages........and ages ago.  Now I'm behind the iron curtain in the People's Republic of Maryland.  Must've done something wrong, eh?  Am I the only person from there here? 

Many blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 14, 2007, 12:29:26 PM
From where, Ill or Md?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 14, 2007, 12:32:55 PM
From where, Ill or Md?

Methinks he means from Maryland.  Where's the member map when you need it - who is from MD?  Shultz comes to mind (am I wrong?)...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 14, 2007, 12:38:14 PM
Ebor, Keble
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 14, 2007, 01:25:08 PM
I was born in Aurora, Ill.  Does that count  ;D?  But that was ages and ages and ages........and ages ago.  Now I'm behind the iron curtain in the People's Republic of Maryland.  Must've done something wrong, eh?  Am I the only person from there here? 

Many blessings,
Jeff
Interesting. I'm from Joliet/Plainfield.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 14, 2007, 01:39:07 PM
From where, Ill or Md?

Interesting use of abbreviations  ;).  I'm from ill Md. (now, that is.)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ronyodish on November 14, 2007, 01:41:06 PM
Quote
Easy, my favorite way.

I cheated.

Went to www.biblos.com, got a verse with the vocab (or letters) from the Pshitta, cut, paste, post, voila!

Sneaky, but cool  ;D

God bless,

Rony
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 14, 2007, 01:52:21 PM
Interesting use of abbreviations  ;).  I'm from ill Md. (now, that is.)

Just following the previous posts' abbreviations which, BTW, were at one time proper (probably before you were born and certainly before zipcodes.)  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 14, 2007, 01:53:23 PM
I was just wondering if it would be acceptable if Eastern Orthodox  converts to Catholicism started setting up threads here celebrating their new found communion with Rome? The opposite was happening at the CAF.

All you need to do to find out is to round up a few of these converts and start some of the threads and see what happens...

Now of course, THAT course of action would IMPLY that you were sincere in your asking with wonder...

My suspection, however, is that your wonder was but a pot shot from a spider hole...

Please prove me wrong and start a thread with those converts here!

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 14, 2007, 02:09:28 PM
The fact that it was allowed on a Catholic forum in the first place was completely unacceptable.

Then your complaint is not with those who converted in peace and joy, but with those Roman Catholics on CAF who failed to repress their posts...

Nor is your complaint appropriately received by the EO posters who responded to the announcements with great joy, but with those Roman Catholics on the CAF who failed to repress their joyous responses...

Your complaint seems to be that the Roman Catholics on CAF failed to be REPRESSIVE ENOUGH for your intended purposes for that board!

Have I got this right?  So that you approve, with great joy and inner peace, the repressive measures now being taken?

Lord have Mercy!

Please tell me I am wrong!

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 14, 2007, 02:18:38 PM
I got this rather strange email just now. I have also printed my reply below:


Dear Mark,
     As an RC priest who for some time has been looking wistfully
Eastwards I would very much like to view some of those pieces wherein
Orthodox defenders of the Faith apparently caused these RC crusaders to
throw down their shields and flee the field of battle. About twenty
years ago I had a somewhat similar experience with their leader both by
mail and in person where I found this individual does not like questions
that go beyond the usual questions asked him by quasi-illiterate
fundamentalists. Also, he has for the last seven or eight years on his
staff, a most intelligent and well-read individual who I suspect does
quite a bit of writing for his publication, but because of the fact that
as a con-man he has hurt so many people here in the Carolinas as well as
in California (and I suspect elsewhere) that he does not dare use his
own name. Were the articles dealing with Orthodoxy signed?
     I would very much appreciate if you could xerox all pages of this
forum that you have. I do not have a computer and WebTV is limited in
what it is able to reproduce. So you could help this priest who is very
close to entering Orthodoxy by mailing me whatever material from that
forum that you have. I will of course send you a check for whatever it
costs you.
     Thank you and God bless,
      Name deleted at present, pending future decision
(((( I have deleted the snail mail address)))))
-----------------------------------------------------------
Father,

Not only did they drop the 'Eastern Forum but they banned for life many of the regular Orthodox posters and they took off the archieve the many years of discussions from that forum. The long time RC moderator of the Board has suddenly "retired"... It was a real live rootin tooten Monday Night Massacre...Shame on them !

I would suggest that you go over to OrthodoxCrhistianity.net   http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php   

There is a  thread there where most all of the Orthodox folks from old forum have gone to discuss what happened and to make that site their new home. A few of the RCC folks are beginning to migrate over as well to continue talking about the issues. One guys said he felt like he is in a displaced persons camp :)

  Some folks had saved a few of the threads on their computers so you can ask to read what is available. There are some really excellent Orthodox posters there that can be of service to you and answer your questions I am sure.

Marc

I have temporarily deleted the name of the author of this e-mail until it can be shown that the e-mail's author has given permission to have his identity disclosed on the Internet.

This post will be returned to its orginal state once this proof has been disclosed.

+Fr Chris

Mark -

This e-mail fails the sniff test - It stinks to high heaven...  The "RC Priest about to convert to Orthodoxy" smell like bait, so as to gather without effort the material requested, and place it in the hands of who knows what kind of witch-hunt...  The mention of a con-man is itself utterly out of place, and the obsequiousness of the whole thing is dauntingly mal-aeromatic...

I do not trust it for a New York second! 

It is WAY too underhanded and sleazy in its manner of presenting itself...

And of course, I could be wrong!

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 14, 2007, 02:23:10 PM
Mark -

This e-mail fails the sniff test - It stinks to high heaven...  The "RC Priest about to convert to Orthodoxy" smell like bait, so as to gather without effort the material requested, and place it in the hands of who knows what kind of witch-hunt...  The mention of a con-man is itself utterly out of place, and the obsequiousness of the whole thing is dauntingly mal-aeromatic...

I do not trust it for a New York second! 

It is WAY too underhanded and sleazy in its manner of presenting itself...

And of course, I could be wrong!

Arsenios

I tend to agree with you. My first thought was that there is something very fishy about this...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 14, 2007, 02:25:27 PM
Just following the previous posts' abbreviations which, BTW, were at one time proper (probably before you were born and certainly before zipcodes.)  ;)

I think I was born pre-zip code.   Yikes! :o :o :o

Now that I think (ouch!) about it, I'm almost sure.  But that was so long ago, I barely remember. ;D

God bless,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 14, 2007, 04:40:45 PM
You got this 'unsolicited?

Yes. Weird huh?

He obviously read my account of what happened on the Catholic Answers forum on the converts list that I susbscribe to since he sent this email to the address associated with that list. 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 14, 2007, 04:51:41 PM
Mark -

This e-mail fails the sniff test - It stinks to high heaven...  The "RC Priest about to convert to Orthodoxy" smell like bait, so as to gather without effort the material requested, and place it in the hands of who knows what kind of witch-hunt...  The mention of a con-man is itself utterly out of place, and the obsequiousness of the whole thing is dauntingly mal-aeromatic...

I do not trust it for a New York second! 

It is WAY too underhanded and sleazy in its manner of presenting itself...

And of course, I could be wrong!

Arsenios

I agree. Someone is trying bait me. It wasnt even well written.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 14, 2007, 06:09:13 PM
I agree. Someone is trying bait me. It wasnt even well written.

Yup, sure smells like fish to me, too.  He said he doesn't have a computer, but has email.  Ok, so he goes to the library?  I'm showing my age (pre-zip code) and ignorance, but what is Webtv, and can you have that without a computer?

Blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 14, 2007, 06:22:50 PM
Webtv is internet thru you telivision. It is actually MARKETED to the AARP crowd ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 14, 2007, 06:23:37 PM
WebTV - a 1995-1996 "internet appliance" (eventually bought by M$) allowing access to the WWW and limited email capability through a TV set top box (ISP needed). Not a computer. Original cost around $200 - a decent PC then was about $2500.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: prodromos on November 14, 2007, 08:29:17 PM
Hello everyone. I haven't read right through this thread but just wanted to add my welcome to the CAF refugees (even though I haven't been active here for ages). I will also note that while Fr Ambrose is registered here, he hasn't been active for well over a year, so those who need their fix of Ambrosia will probably need to seek him out elsewhere :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 14, 2007, 08:45:14 PM
Hey, prodomos, long time no "see"! Nice you stopped in.  :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 14, 2007, 09:29:52 PM
Hello everyone. I haven't read right through this thread but just wanted to add my welcome to the CAF refugees (even though I haven't been active here for ages). I will also note that while Fr Ambrose is registered here, he hasn't been active for well over a year, so those who need their fix of Ambrosia will probably need to seek him out elsewhere :)
So where (if anywhere) else do you two hang out?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: prodromos on November 14, 2007, 10:57:47 PM
So where (if anywhere) else do you two hang out?
I'm hoping Neil (Irish Melkite) might remember another forum Fr Ambrose spent some time at. I remember Fr Ambrose mentioning another forum but can't for the life of me remember which one.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: prodromos on November 14, 2007, 10:59:17 PM
Hey, prodomos, long time no "see"! Nice you stopped in.  :)
I have been a stranger for a while, haven't I
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: BigFatGreekDaddy on November 15, 2007, 03:56:49 AM
I want to second wynd's impression. Your postings, Apotheoun, were so edifying to me.

Many, many so informative posts - not only from the Orthodox posters headed by Fr Ambrose, Isa Almisry, Heracliades, Hesychios, Orthodoc, Reader Arsenios, StMarkofE, Montalban, ICXC NIKA, but also of RC and U-(forbidden - I'm really puzzled why) - Apotheoun being the first "among equals", Ghosty, Mardukm, Catholig, and many, many others.

A real treasury deleted!

Why? These posts were not showing only the Orthodox "upper hand"! For Christ sake, I got not only better understanding of our differencies there, but better appreciation, for instance, of Thomas Aquinas, who is now more acceptable to me in religious terms than he used to be! (Reader Arsenios and Ghosty should be credited for that specific topic.) And so many quotations and links in context about so many issues. A treasury!

Occasional fire was mostly the consequence of misperception, ignorance of otherone's attitude and priorities and quite rarely of ill intentions, at least that's my impression.

My account hasn't been suspended there, but it was requested I change password. I wanted to check PM there - what's the point of writing for a trash can?

There is no better learning method than reading polemics, and participating in them. And so many fine reasonings - all deleted. I'm so sad.

But I'm glad I see all and each one of present CAF posters here.


I am humbled that I was even remembered and mentioned on this thread!!

I was rather upset about the nuclear explosion at CAF.
I was present for well over a year before I even started posting at that forum.

I originally started looking online for RC v. Ortho material when a good friend of mine became a born again Catholic :-)
I was amazed by some of the info that I was able to scavange from the good posters at that site.

As little surprise to none, Fr. A is the best.  I'm sure he is lurking about somewhere, however he is a monastic, and may be utilizing his time otherwise for a little while.

I was highly upset about the hundreds of hours (thousands for some), that we put into that forum; and have the wicked witch of West come in and banish  us to the recesses of th EWTN basement. But alas, it shows the stripes of those wishing to oppress the dialogue.

Nevertheless, I actually enjoyed finding most everyone over here.  I was a bit too occupied the past few weeks to post regularly, and just caught the chaos as I was trying to return.

I was banished, never to be heard from again, for simply questioning what was happening.
Although it's sad, I'm glad to see that I was not the only one to get the ax!

I was actually more hurt at the prospect of not talking to some of you'all.  It's amazing how much I missed the interaction with a delightful host of people.

I will say however that I met with several RC over there that were very nice, and I exchanged many a good PM's with over the year or so that I was active.
The first person to actually make contact with me was a Catholic physician, who saw that I was a physician, and wished to extend an olive branch to me immediatley.  It was nice.

But anyhow, I'm glad to see so many of you here, and look forward to continued conversation. 

icxc nika

now known as: Big FAT Greek Daddy....
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 15, 2007, 06:19:41 AM
I have been a stranger for a while, haven't I
Yep!

To you and to all our new and renewed members:

Willkommen, bienvenue, welcome!
Fremde, etranger, stranger.
Gluklich zu sehen, je suis enchante,
Happy to see you, bleibe, reste, stay.
Willkommen, bienvenue, welcome
Im Cabaret, au Cabaret, to Cabaret!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 15, 2007, 11:52:54 AM
Greetings all,

It has been requested by my good friend and brother in Christ that I post this message for him. Everyone will remember him as "Orthodoc" (Bob) from the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum at Catholic Answers. He is having trouble logging on here because of a "cookies" problem. Can anyone help him?

Received a Private Email from Fr Ambrose.  Though he wasn't banned from posting on CAF they did take away his ability to communicate via CAF for private emails.  So, if you sent him a private email via CAF chances are he either never received it or if he did and replied you all never got his reply.  This past weekend was very busy for him.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: BigFatGreekDaddy on November 15, 2007, 12:01:09 PM
Greetings all,

It has been requested by my good friend and brother in Christ that I post this message for him. Everyone will remember him as "Orthodoc" (Bob) from the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum at Catholic Answers. He is having trouble logging on here because of a "cookies" problem. Can anyone help him?

Received a Private Email from Fr Ambrose.  Though he wasn't banned from posting on CAF they did take away his ability to communicate via CAF for private emails.  So, if you sent him a private email via CAF chances are he either never received it or if he did and replied you all never got his reply.  This past weekend was very busy for him.

It almost feels as though we are in the midst of a nuclear Holocaust and we are attempting to find each other through the murky fog, using smoke signals and the pony express to communicate.

Glad to see that the world is actually a bit smaller than it seems.  The internet is pretty amazing isn't it!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: brittrossiter on November 15, 2007, 12:06:58 PM
It almost feels as though we are in the midst of a nuclear Holocaust and we are attempting to find each other through the murky fog, using smoke signals and the pony express to communicate.

Glad to see that the world is actually a bit smaller than it seems.  The internet is pretty amazing isn't it!
Amazing indeed, and that's an excellent analogy.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 15, 2007, 12:08:39 PM
It almost feels as though we are in the midst of a nuclear Holocaust and we are attempting to find each other through the murky fog, using smoke signals and the pony express to communicate.

In any fire drill, the most thing to know is the evacuation rallying point. ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 15, 2007, 12:28:35 PM
In any fire drill, the most thing to know is the evacuation rallying point. ;)

Amazing to see how many of us almost instinctively rallyed here!  The Holy Spirit guiding and protecting us?

So good to hear Fr. Ambrose is still around, and I very much hope to see him here.

In Christ,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 15, 2007, 01:45:47 PM

I am humbled that I was even remembered and mentioned on this thread!!

I was rather upset about the nuclear explosion at CAF.
I was present for well over a year before I even started posting at that forum.

I originally started looking online for RC v. Ortho material when a good friend of mine became a born again Catholic :-)
I was amazed by some of the info that I was able to scavange from the good posters at that site.

As little surprise to none, Fr. A is the best.  I'm sure he is lurking about somewhere, however he is a monastic, and may be utilizing his time otherwise for a little while.

I was highly upset about the hundreds of hours (thousands for some), that we put into that forum; and have the wicked witch of West come in and banish  us to the recesses of th EWTN basement. But alas, it shows the stripes of those wishing to oppress the dialogue.

Nevertheless, I actually enjoyed finding most everyone over here.  I was a bit too occupied the past few weeks to post regularly, and just caught the chaos as I was trying to return.

I was banished, never to be heard from again, for simply questioning what was happening.
Although it's sad, I'm glad to see that I was not the only one to get the ax!

I was actually more hurt at the prospect of not talking to some of you'all.  It's amazing how much I missed the interaction with a delightful host of people.

I will say however that I met with several RC over there that were very nice, and I exchanged many a good PM's with over the year or so that I was active.
The first person to actually make contact with me was a Catholic physician, who saw that I was a physician, and wished to extend an olive branch to me immediatley.  It was nice.

But anyhow, I'm glad to see so many of you here, and look forward to continued conversation. 

icxc nika

now known as: Big FAT Greek Daddy....

Welcome! :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 15, 2007, 02:21:17 PM
Greetings all,

It has been requested by my good friend and brother in Christ that I post this message for him. Everyone will remember him as "Orthodoc" (Bob) from the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum at Catholic Answers. He is having trouble logging on here because of a "cookies" problem. Can anyone help him?

Received a Private Email from Fr Ambrose.  Though he wasn't banned from posting on CAF they did take away his ability to communicate via CAF for private emails.  So, if you sent him a private email via CAF chances are he either never received it or if he did and replied you all never got his reply.  This past weekend was very busy for him.

If he's using internet explorer ,tell him to delete his cookies in internet options then just sign in again ..it should work hopefully...stashko :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 15, 2007, 03:04:29 PM
If he's using internet explorer ,tell him to delete his cookies in internet options then just sign in again ..it should work hopefully...stashko :D
Has it occurred to you guys that the Administrators of CAF may be reading this site?
Given what has happened already, do you think it may be possible that people may be banned from CAF because of what is written here?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 15, 2007, 03:06:29 PM
Even though I am banned from CAF ( you would think I would have least gotten one warning !) I am still able to read the threads through a back door (I cant post)

There is a new thread "How would you feel if the Eastern and Western Churches were united" and there is a poll attached to it. All the Catholics who took the poll would "Be happy" except for one or two folks. The funny part is that absolutely no Orthdox voted in the poll. I guess that's what happens when you ban people..Duh
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 15, 2007, 03:08:31 PM
Has it occurred to you guys that the Administrators of CAF may be reading this site?
Given what has happened already, do you think it may be possible that people may be banned from CAF because of what is written here?

Okay... I am going to duct tape up all the windows, fill my pots and pans with reserve water supplies and sleep with my gun.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 15, 2007, 03:16:17 PM
Okay... I am going to duct tape up all the windows, fill my pots and pans with reserve water supplies and sleep with my gun.

Well, I suppose you could do that if you wished, but I was thinking more along the lines of stealth- you know: "gentle as doves and cunning as snakes". Every occupied country during the Nazi era had an organised, underground.
<cough> pm system <cough>
Take it from someone who belongs to an underground political resistance group in Australia. ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 15, 2007, 03:18:33 PM
Iwas visiting brother zaphod yahoo ..easternorthodox.orthodoxy,  forum that he setup ,,,i advise people to stay away from it...it's swamped with viagra adds ..once they snag your e-mail address they will overwhelm your inbox with those adds ,,like there doing in mine now ...friendly advice ....stashko ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 15, 2007, 03:45:06 PM
Well, I suppose you could do that if you wished, but I was thinking more along the lines of stealth- you know: "gentle as doves and cunning as snakes". Every occupied country during the Nazi era had an organised, underground.
<cough> pm system <cough>
Take it from someone who belongs to an underground political resistance group in Australia. ;)


 ???

Care to elaborate? Not about the Nazi's, but what you had in mind. (If it's obvious, and I missed it, please forgive my simple-mindedness!)

God Bless,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 15, 2007, 03:46:18 PM
Greetings to all the brothers and the not so many sisters!

I *finally* discovered my Sign-In name for OC.net -Irish Hermit- and so here I am.  

The closure of CAF's Eastern Christianity Forum was quite devastating for me and for all of us, I think, and while I am still a member there I have not had the heart to post anything.  So I took the new situation as God's indication that I should post less and get out and enjoy the Spring sunshine in New Zealand and the people on the block.

I understand the CAF's Admin's decision to close the old Forum.  Significant numbers of conversions to Orthodoxy were occuring, none of it accomplished by proselytization or underhand ways but simply as a serendipity by-product of the public discussions.

My heart goes out now to the few Eastern Catholics who are left there.  Along the lines of what Neil has said already, we can all see that they are taking a hammering from their Roman Catholic brethren and from their semi-latinised Eastern brethren and one cannot help but feel sorry for them.  There is not much understanding or sympathy for their position.

Tribute should be paid to Joe Monahan who did a sterling job of moderating our rambunctious section of CAF with great fairness and charity to both Catholics and Orthodox.

Anyway, it is nice to be here on OC.net and I can see that people are settling in and enjoying being able to re-establish friendships and connections.  Many thanks to the Mods here who are making the CAF people so welcome.

Fr Ambrose



Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 15, 2007, 03:54:22 PM
Greetings to all the brothers and the not so many sisters!

I *finally* discovered my Sign-In name for OC.net -Irish Hermit- and so here I am.
Alas, our mentor has returned!  ;D 


Significant numbers of conversions to Orthodoxy were occuring,
Glory be to God!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 15, 2007, 03:59:10 PM
???

Care to elaborate? Not about the Nazi's, but what you had in mind. (If it's obvious, and I missed it, please forgive my simple-mindedness!)

God Bless,
Jeff
No problem.
At the moment, there are about 30 of you here. Those of you who know each other should organize yourselves into a "contact chain". Each person in the chain is responsible for contacting 5 other people in the chain. One person (the "Anchor") acts as the initiator of the chain. That way, if there is a message you need to pass on to the others which you do not want CAF to see, the process is:

1) You send the message via the OCnet private messaging stsystem to the Anchor,

2) The Anchor forwards it to their 5 contacts (6 people now know the message)

3) Each of those 5 contacts forward it to their 5 contacts (31 people now know the message)
and so on.......
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 15, 2007, 04:08:54 PM
It's a lamentable state of affairs when extreme measures are taken to purge vigorous dialogue, moderators are "retired" under mysterious circumstances and an entire forum replete with great bits of information is whisked away to cyber-purgatory, it seems, for more 'purification'.
Your series of contributions on the attitude of the early Church Fathers on the purpose of marriage were of enormous worth.  I hope you have it tucked away safely.

I have discovered that if you feed the right words into Google.com it will bring up its own archived messages from CAF.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Anastasios on November 15, 2007, 04:21:20 PM
Your series of contributions on the attitude of the early Church Fathers on the purpose of marriage were of enormous worth.  I hope you have it tucked away safely.

I have discovered that if you feed the right words into Google.com it will bring up its own archived messages from CAF.

Save those as they can get them purged if they are that vindictive. Also, they may automatically be purged the next time the google bots scan the site and find those threads gone.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 15, 2007, 04:21:55 PM
Greetings to all the brothers and the not so many sisters!

I *finally* discovered my Sign-In name for OC.net -Irish Hermit- and so here I am.  

The closure of CAF's Eastern Christianity Forum was quite devastating for me and for all of us, I think, and while I am still a member there I have not had the heart to post anything.  So I took the new situation as God's indication that I should post less and get out and enjoy the Spring sunshine in New Zealand and the people on the block.

I understand the CAF's Admin's decision to close the old Forum.  Significant numbers of conversions to Orthodoxy were occuring, none of it accomplished by proselytization or underhand ways but simply as a serendipity by-product of the public discussions.

My heart goes out now to the few Eastern Catholics who are left there.  Along the lines of what Neil has said already, we can all see that they are taking a hammering from their Roman Catholic brethren and from their semi-latinised Eastern brethren and one cannot help but feel sorry for them.  There is not much understanding or sympathy for their position.

Tribute should be paid to Joe Monahan who did a sterling job of moderating our rambunctious section of CAF with great fairness and charity to both Catholics and Orthodox.

Anyway, it is nice to be here on OC.net and I can see that people are settling in and enjoying being able to re-establish friendships and connections.  Many thanks to the Mods here who are making the CAF people so welcome.

Fr Ambrose





Bless Father,

How wonderful to see you here!  :) :)

I'm looking forward to a post count surpassing your feat at CAF  ;D!

What a great waste and shame that all those have been deposited in their Secret Archives.

God bless you,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: brittrossiter on November 15, 2007, 04:23:08 PM
Has it occurred to you guys that the Administrators of CAF may be reading this site?
Given what has happened already, do you think it may be possible that people may be banned from CAF because of what is written here?

If they did that, it would be a bit difficult for them to rationalize the banning as a supposed violation of the CAF forum rules.   ::)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: GiC on November 15, 2007, 04:29:39 PM
No problem.
At the moment, there are about 30 of you here. Those of you who know each other should organize yourselves into a "contact chain". Each person in the chain is responsible for contacting 5 other people in the chain. One person (the "Anchor") acts as the initiator of the chain. That way, if there is a message you need to pass on to the others which you do not want CAF to see, the process is:

1) You send the message via the OCnet private messaging stsystem to the Anchor,

2) The Anchor forwards it to their 5 contacts (6 people now know the message)

3) Each of those 5 contacts forward it to their 5 contacts (31 people now know the message)
and so on.......

And make sure to only send using Blind Carbon Copy so fellow members of your cell cannot be identified in event of capture by the Vatican Secret Police. (Should we throw in RSA cryptography and encrypted proxies such as the tor network as well?) ;D

Your system works well if resisting a tyrannical and intrusive government like the Thrid Reich or, apparently, the Howard administration. ;)

But it might be easier for them if simply complied a list of everyone's user name and sent any message the wanted to send to everyone by putting their names on the 'to' line (assuming that the upper limit on  recipients of a pm is high enough, does anyone know what this is?). Provided there's an opt-out option (or even opt-in) for those concerned, I wouldn't imagine that this would cause a problem for anyone.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 15, 2007, 04:40:54 PM
(assuming that the upper limit on  recipients of a pm is high enough, does anyone know what this is?).
I dunno.
Rob is the man to ask in regards to that one.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 15, 2007, 04:51:06 PM
Greetings to all the brothers and the not so many sisters!

I *finally* discovered my Sign-In name for OC.net -Irish Hermit- and so here I am.  

The closure of CAF's Eastern Christianity Forum was quite devastating for me and for all of us, I think, and while I am still a member there I have not had the heart to post anything.  So I took the new situation as God's indication that I should post less and get out and enjoy the Spring sunshine in New Zealand and the people on the block.

I understand the CAF's Admin's decision to close the old Forum.  Significant numbers of conversions to Orthodoxy were occuring, none of it accomplished by proselytization or underhand ways but simply as a serendipity by-product of the public discussions.

My heart goes out now to the few Eastern Catholics who are left there.  Along the lines of what Neil has said already, we can all see that they are taking a hammering from their Roman Catholic brethren and from their semi-latinised Eastern brethren and one cannot help but feel sorry for them.  There is not much understanding or sympathy for their position.

Tribute should be paid to Joe Monahan who did a sterling job of moderating our rambunctious section of CAF with great fairness and charity to both Catholics and Orthodox.

Anyway, it is nice to be here on OC.net and I can see that people are settling in and enjoying being able to re-establish friendships and connections.  Many thanks to the Mods here who are making the CAF people so welcome.

Fr Ambrose





Fr. Ambrose,

Great to have the opportunity to again read and learn from your posts.

JoeS (StMarkEofE)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 15, 2007, 04:59:19 PM
Father Ambrose; it is so wonderful to "see" you again. I look forward to reading more of your posts. You have such a wonderful sense of humor and a great wealth of information and wise words. You, and many others that have regrouped here have been used greatly to help my family get on the path to becoming Orthodox.

I appreciate you all.

And my kids love the change. My oldest falls asleep at night singing the Trisagion. ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 15, 2007, 05:09:42 PM


And my kids love the change. My oldest falls asleep at night singing the Trisagion. ;D

That is truly lovely.

JoeS
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 15, 2007, 07:08:19 PM
Your series of contributions on the attitude of the early Church Fathers on the purpose of marriage were of enormous worth.  I hope you have it tucked away safely.

I was going to post this but forgot. Papa, do you have that anywhere?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papa Gregorio on November 15, 2007, 08:15:10 PM
Your series of contributions on the attitude of the early Church Fathers on the purpose of marriage were of enormous worth.  I hope you have it tucked away safely.

I have discovered that if you feed the right words into Google.com it will bring up its own archived messages from CAF.

Dear Fr. Ambrose,

Venerating the hand that typed so many invaluable words of knowledge and benevolence!

All of my patristic quotes, as well as my dialogue on Pope Vigilius and the 5th Ecumenical Council with mardukm, are safe with me.  :police:

My sincere thanks to you for your contributions over at CAF. They weren't made in vain.




Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papa Gregorio on November 15, 2007, 08:21:29 PM
I was going to post this but forgot. Papa, do you have that anywhere?

I certainly do. Just let me know if you'd like me to repost anything.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 15, 2007, 08:27:08 PM
I understand the CAF's Admin's decision to close the old Forum.  Significant numbers of conversions to Orthodoxy were occuring, none of it accomplished by proselytization or underhand ways

Fr Ambrose

He's back!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: RPConover on November 15, 2007, 08:56:08 PM
just right off the top of my head... the vast knowledge, valuable information, generosity in answering questions and Christian witness of posters like Fr, Ambrose, Hesychios, Isa Almisry and literally every other Orthodox poster on CAF led me to my decision to enter the Holy Orthodox Church. I will attest to the fact that no proselytization was involved or even necessary. So I thank God that I happened on that sub-forum and the great people who posted there, or I may never have come to know the truth of the Orthodox Church. As it is, I'm banned for life now, and didn't even get the courtesy of one warning. I want to thank all you guys too, may God bless you all. I'm thrilled to see Fr. Ambrose posting here(as is everyone else I'm sure)! God grant him many years, and thank you Father!

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 15, 2007, 09:06:54 PM
Hello,

Good to have Father Ambrose here with us! Now the party can really get started.  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: prodromas on November 15, 2007, 09:09:18 PM
I have heard so much about this father Ambrose I am literally excited to hear about him. What is his background? I can't wait to see some more posts of his.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papist on November 15, 2007, 09:53:33 PM
All you need to do to find out is to round up a few of these converts and start some of the threads and see what happens...

Now of course, THAT course of action would IMPLY that you were sincere in your asking with wonder...

My suspection, however, is that your wonder was but a pot shot from a spider hole...

Please prove me wrong and start a thread with those converts here!

Arsenios
Oh give me a break. The moderators would be up in arms if i did this.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: GiC on November 15, 2007, 10:10:57 PM
Oh give me a break. The moderators would be up in arms if i did this.

This board isn't perfect, sure I've had my complaints about censorship and all, but the debates I have had are almost moot in comparison to the stunt your fellow churchmen pulled. I'd personally love it if you got your posse together and I'm sure that if you stayed to the appropriate forums we would all enjoy the open debate and free flow of information. You know how much I like taking cheap shots at you all ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 15, 2007, 10:11:26 PM
The moderators would be up in arms if i did this.
Would they? Only one way to find out- why don't you ask us?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 15, 2007, 10:40:49 PM
The fields are ripe for harvest within the non catholic forum...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 16, 2007, 12:22:11 AM
Greetings to all the brothers and the not so many sisters!

I *finally* discovered my Sign-In name for OC.net -Irish Hermit- and so here I am. 

The closure of CAF's Eastern Christianity Forum was quite devastating for me and for all of us, I think, and while I am still a member there I have not had the heart to post anything.  So I took the new situation as God's indication that I should post less and get out and enjoy the Spring sunshine in New Zealand and the people on the block.

I understand the CAF's Admin's decision to close the old Forum.  Significant numbers of conversions to Orthodoxy were occuring, none of it accomplished by proselytization or underhand ways but simply as a serendipity by-product of the public discussions.

My heart goes out now to the few Eastern Catholics who are left there.  Along the lines of what Neil has said already, we can all see that they are taking a hammering from their Roman Catholic brethren and from their semi-latinised Eastern brethren and one cannot help but feel sorry for them.  There is not much understanding or sympathy for their position.

Tribute should be paid to Joe Monahan who did a sterling job of moderating our rambunctious section of CAF with great fairness and charity to both Catholics and Orthodox.

Anyway, it is nice to be here on OC.net and I can see that people are settling in and enjoying being able to re-establish friendships and connections.  Many thanks to the Mods here who are making the CAF people so welcome.

Fr Ambrose

Fr. Ambrose Bless!

My joy is now full...

You are here...

I was talking last night with my friend in Phoenix, AZ, Reader Stephen-Paul [Robinson], and I asked him if he had ever heard of an Hieromonk in NZ named Fr. Ambrose, and the answer was "Yup - He's the one who just got kicked out of a Catholic forum in a major meltdown, right?"  So I confessed my part in causing that event, but the bottom line is, you are becoming famous late in your years, and I fear I am greatly to blame...

Please forgive me for petting that Roman Tom-Cat tail to head, instead of vice-versa, and being instrumental in dragging your name into the lime-light of the hall of fame of Orthodoxy...  Remember Myrrh? And your showing me that long thread in which she posted when I first came on CAF?  I came to like her a lot by reading that thread, and the work she had done, and was outraged that she had been banned because she was good at refutations...  And part of my motive for being there was to stand in and stand up for her memory and the work she had begun... I hope you are still in touch with her, and have kept her abreast of these events...  In my book, this event is a tribute to what she began...

And I am sorry that you have lost your place of "work", and the good work you were doing there...

Did you know Fr. Averky?  ROCOR hieromonk who posted for a long time on monachos, and died?  He also, like you, had medical issues that did not allow him to do much else, other than pray, and his prayers carried many of us...  As do all our prayers for one another, and yours for us...

I am glad you are here, Father...  We made a good run with you...  And some of those Eastern Christians are here too, even though the ones remaining are suffocating under the weight of the Roman Catholic presence...  I hear Ghosty, bless the radiant integrity of his soul, is about to pull out...  It is just too shameful...

We did something important there, I feel, yet I hope we as well did something good...  I pray that the shutting down of that board and the repressive actions of the RC Admins there was God's desire for us to help facilitate...  If not, it will be a long afterlife!

So welcome back to your motley crew!

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jimmy on November 16, 2007, 12:33:08 AM
Greetings to all the brothers and the not so many sisters!

I *finally* discovered my Sign-In name for OC.net -Irish Hermit- and so here I am.  

The closure of CAF's Eastern Christianity Forum was quite devastating for me and for all of us, I think, and while I am still a member there I have not had the heart to post anything.  So I took the new situation as God's indication that I should post less and get out and enjoy the Spring sunshine in New Zealand and the people on the block.

I understand the CAF's Admin's decision to close the old Forum.  Significant numbers of conversions to Orthodoxy were occuring, none of it accomplished by proselytization or underhand ways but simply as a serendipity by-product of the public discussions.

My heart goes out now to the few Eastern Catholics who are left there.  Along the lines of what Neil has said already, we can all see that they are taking a hammering from their Roman Catholic brethren and from their semi-latinised Eastern brethren and one cannot help but feel sorry for them.  There is not much understanding or sympathy for their position.

Tribute should be paid to Joe Monahan who did a sterling job of moderating our rambunctious section of CAF with great fairness and charity to both Catholics and Orthodox.

Anyway, it is nice to be here on OC.net and I can see that people are settling in and enjoying being able to re-establish friendships and connections.  Many thanks to the Mods here who are making the CAF people so welcome.

Fr Ambrose





Fr Ambrose!!!  I am glad to see you here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Robert on November 16, 2007, 12:46:33 AM
And make sure to only send using Blind Carbon Copy so fellow members of your cell cannot be identified in event of capture by the Vatican Secret Police. (Should we throw in RSA cryptography and encrypted proxies such as the tor network as well?) ;D

Your system works well if resisting a tyrannical and intrusive government like the Thrid Reich or, apparently, the Howard administration. ;)

But it might be easier for them if simply complied a list of everyone's user name and sent any message the wanted to send to everyone by putting their names on the 'to' line (assuming that the upper limit on  recipients of a pm is high enough, does anyone know what this is?). Provided there's an opt-out option (or even opt-in) for those concerned, I wouldn't imagine that this would cause a problem for anyone.

While I really appreciate everyone posting here and reuniting, it was mentioned before and I need to mention again that different threads should be opened up for questions like these, only so we can respond without having to dig through posts.  We have a technical forum here which is really good for questions as such.

Thanks,
Robert
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 16, 2007, 01:02:59 AM
Greetings to all the brothers and the not so many sisters!

I *finally* discovered my Sign-In name for OC.net -Irish Hermit- and so here I am. 

The closure of CAF's Eastern Christianity Forum was quite devastating for me and for all of us, I think, and while I am still a member there I have not had the heart to post anything.  So I took the new situation as God's indication that I should post less and get out and enjoy the Spring sunshine in New Zealand and the people on the block.

I understand the CAF's Admin's decision to close the old Forum.  Significant numbers of conversions to Orthodoxy were occuring, none of it accomplished by proselytization or underhand ways but simply as a serendipity by-product of the public discussions.

My heart goes out now to the few Eastern Catholics who are left there.  Along the lines of what Neil has said already, we can all see that they are taking a hammering from their Roman Catholic brethren and from their semi-latinised Eastern brethren and one cannot help but feel sorry for them.  There is not much understanding or sympathy for their position.

Tribute should be paid to Joe Monahan who did a sterling job of moderating our rambunctious section of CAF with great fairness and charity to both Catholics and Orthodox.

Anyway, it is nice to be here on OC.net and I can see that people are settling in and enjoying being able to re-establish friendships and connections.  Many thanks to the Mods here who are making the CAF people so welcome.

Fr Ambrose

Welcome back to the head of the class, Father...

My joy is now full...

Long post just disappeared - probably best destination for it...

You are already becoming famous in Orthodoxy with the CAF debacle...

Steve [Stephen-Paul] Robinson in Phoenix [Our Life in Christ Radio] knew about it last night when I talked with him on the phone...  The waves are being felt and heard widely...

Sure glad to see you here...

Arsenios

Edited to add:

Oh Fiddles!  I see the long post did not disappear, but was posted last page...  So you get a double dose of S.P., fame and appreciation...

A.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 16, 2007, 02:15:26 AM
Hello Father Ambrose ,,,Welcome stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 16, 2007, 03:20:34 AM
Arsenios,

Could not agree more. That is the most unlikely piece of e-mail that I've read in ages and as an unsolicited piece, it is beyond even consideration.

Many years,

Neil

Mark -

This e-mail fails the sniff test - It stinks to high heaven...  The "RC Priest about to convert to Orthodoxy" smell like bait, so as to gather without effort the material requested, and place it in the hands of who knows what kind of witch-hunt...  The mention of a con-man is itself utterly out of place, and the obsequiousness of the whole thing is dauntingly mal-aeromatic...

I do not trust it for a New York second! 

It is WAY too underhanded and sleazy in its manner of presenting itself...

And of course, I could be wrong!

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 16, 2007, 03:35:29 AM
I'm hoping Neil (Irish Melkite) might remember another forum Fr Ambrose spent some time at. I remember Fr Ambrose mentioning another forum but can't for the life of me remember which one.

Hi John,

Good to see you, my friend. Same memory issue as you, but my excuse is old age - you don't have that one.

Speaking of "old age", I have heard from the venerable old* hieromonk via e-mail. (I haven't been here in a couple days and haven't read beyond your above-quoted post yet, so folks may already be aware of this, for all I know). He's having a bout of computer problems and may be off-line for a few days, but I think he can be enticed to show up here on his return.

Many years,

Neil


*he's got 10 months on me, so I can say that, besides everyone here knows that we ECs are disrespectful trouble-makers anyway  ;D - oh wait, that's you EO guys, not us, right?  ::)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 16, 2007, 03:41:22 AM
Greetings to all the brothers and the not so many sisters!

I *finally* discovered my Sign-In name for OC.net -Irish Hermit- and so here I am.  

Bless, Father,

Heck, if that was the access issue, you should have said - I remembered that (but, I am younger than you  ;D )

Everyone else,

My earlier comment regarding Father having computer problems still stands.

Regarding the convert threads at CAF, as best I recollect Joe posted something to the effect that appropriate responses to posted reports of persons leaving either the Catholic or Orthodox Church for the other were prayerful wishes for the individual's spiritual journey/discernment/decision. What was forbidden were triumphalism on the one hand or disparagement of the decision on the other. And, I believe he applied that fairly equally on both sides; not sure how else it could have been handled. Given the nature of the venue, it was as neutral a stance as could be asked without banning such announcements.

It seems to me (and Father, Mike, or Joe - who all pretty much trace back to the beginning of CAF with me - might agree or remember differently) that there had been a few such threads over the last 3 years, but most were fairly low key. I believe that one thread, a couple of months ago, sort of broke the mold and produced a fierce flurry of "over-the-top" posts from both sides of the fence. That was what precipitated moderator intervention on the matter - not the topic itself; at least, that was my impression of it.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 16, 2007, 06:54:29 AM
If they did that, it would be a bit difficult for them to rationalize the banning as a supposed violation of the CAF forum rules.   ::)

Your point?

A reason is one thing.

An excuse is another.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 16, 2007, 06:58:56 AM
Dear Fr. Ambrose,

Venerating the hand that typed so many invaluable words of knowledge and benevolence!

All of my patristic quotes, as well as my dialogue on Pope Vigilius and the 5th Ecumenical Council with mardukm, are safe with me.  :police:

My sincere thanks to you for your contributions over at CAF. They weren't made in vain.






I missed that. I'd like to see it.  Pope Vigilius always seems interesting (like Zosimos) when talking with someone who is so used to defending Honorius (in itself interesting).

Also, you might do us the favor of posting the purposes of marriage here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13331.0.html
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 16, 2007, 07:09:41 AM
I have heard so much about this father Ambrose I am literally excited to hear about him. What is his background? I can't wait to see some more posts of his.

Buckle your seat belt.

Great to see you here Father.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 16, 2007, 07:25:41 AM
Beannaigh, attair Ambrois!

Kissing your right Cross-bearing hand!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 16, 2007, 07:45:13 AM
Beannaigh, attair Ambrois!

Kissing your right Cross-bearing hand!
Go the Irish!

Do you know that Sofrino (the patriarchal factory for Church goods in Moscow) now manufactures a very nice silver baptismal cross which has the form of an Irish High Cross but the rest, the corpus and the inscriptions, are in Slavonic.  Seems they have created it for the many Russian-Irish babies being born and baptized in Ireland where the influx of Russians, mainly young IT people, has pushed Orthodoxy into 4th place for the various Christian Churches according to Government statistics.  Still minimal though - maybe 20,000.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: brittrossiter on November 16, 2007, 08:55:02 AM
Your point?

A reason is one thing.

An excuse is another.

Indeed.  That was my point exactly.   ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: prodromos on November 16, 2007, 09:24:32 AM
Greetings to all the brothers and the not so many sisters!

I *finally* discovered my Sign-In name for OC.net -Irish Hermit- and so here I am.
Bless Father.
And here I was being careful not to reveal your secret identity on this forum  :D, though I must confess I had informed one of the mods here many months ago.

Rob, OzGeorge, etc. please forgive the reluctance to venture out into other parts of the forum. Over on CAF we were basically only reading and responding to threads in that one subforum called Eastern Christianity. It had a quality which will be missed and formed a habit which is not easily broken.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 16, 2007, 09:26:45 AM
Fr Ambrose, bless!

It's so great to see you here!

Danica in Serbia
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Robert on November 16, 2007, 11:30:40 AM
Bless Father.
And here I was being careful not to reveal your secret identity on this forum  :D, though I must confess I had informed one of the mods here many months ago.

Rob, OzGeorge, etc. please forgive the reluctance to venture out into other parts of the forum. Over on CAF we were basically only reading and responding to threads in that one subforum called Eastern Christianity. It had a quality which will be missed and formed a habit which is not easily broken.

Understood..  It's good to see you back ;)

Robert
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 16, 2007, 11:49:38 AM
Rob, OzGeorge, etc. please forgive the reluctance to venture out into other parts of the forum. Over on CAF we were basically only reading and responding to threads in that one subforum called Eastern Christianity. It had a quality which will be missed and formed a habit which is not easily broken.

John's right. Bear with us a day or so until the shock wears off and we get past the herd mentality and we'll be good to go, venturing off on our own into the highways and byways here.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 16, 2007, 06:30:24 PM
Over on CAF we were basically only reading and responding to threads in that one subforum called Eastern Christianity.
Like some exotic insects in a glass exhibit, until they decided you were pests and called in the exterminators......How poetic is that?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 16, 2007, 06:53:21 PM
Like some exotic insects in a glass exhibit, until they decided you were pests and called in the exterminators......How poetic is that?

Normally, I'd respond to this, but would it get me banned if I disagreed with your analogy?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 16, 2007, 06:59:31 PM
Normally, I'd respond to this, but would it get me banned if I disagreed with your analogy?

HAHAHAHA.

Oh, if you weren't joking... don't worry.  Our justice is swift, very painful - and very public.  Not at all like those folks over at the other place.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: GiC on November 16, 2007, 07:04:09 PM
Normally, I'd respond to this, but would it get me banned if I disagreed with your analogy?

Yep. You'd be out of here faster than Raid kills ants. :D




In all seriousness, you probably won't get banned. Though if you catch ozgeorge in a bad mood be prepared for a good fight, but it can be fun, trust me I've enjoyed a good virtual brawl on several occasions with him. However, I'm sure you have nothing to worry about, he has to get to know you before he'll have a bone to pick with you and I'm one of the few around here who can get under his skin like that. ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 16, 2007, 07:08:27 PM
Normally, I'd respond to this, but would it get me banned if I disagreed with your analogy?

Oh, and a good thing to bring up: only the Admins ban. 

So stay on the good side of the omnipotent and omniscient FrChris, and you're okay (lol - I couldn't type that and keep a straight face).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 16, 2007, 07:19:43 PM
Though if you catch ozgeorge in a bad mood be prepared for a good fight,
You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: FrChris on November 16, 2007, 07:41:40 PM
 

So stay on the good side of the omnipotent and omniscient FrChris, and you're okay (lol - I couldn't type that and keep a straight face).

And once again it is revealed why I am...

The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net!!  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 16, 2007, 07:43:04 PM
You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me?

You know, I can't help but get the feeling that the moderators on this board are a tad less inclined to stick firmly by the rules, but at the same time, have the great ability to act on emotions.

As a Catholic, I am in every way a guest on these forums, so I am only exploring the limits of our 'freedom'. The question was serious (sort of).

Peace and God Bless!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ytterbiumanalyst on November 16, 2007, 07:49:05 PM
Magicsilence,

Don't worry about offending anyone here. We have several longtime posters who are Catholic, and they all have very good things to say. I think you'll find that on this forum, we tend to keep an open mind (or at least an open ear) toward people of other faiths, especially our fellow Christians. Be prepared for some good debates, but I've never seen the moderators pick a fight with anyone or moderate just because they don't agree with someone. About all they moderate is foul language; ad hominem attacks; and sweeping, hateful generalizations (e.g. people of this religion are all going to hell, etc.). Stay away from these, and you should enjoy yourself here.

Welcome!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: GiC on November 16, 2007, 07:58:09 PM
You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me?

No, read my post again, I'm talking about you. Don't you know it's rude to eavesdrop on other's conversations? Especially when they're talking about you behind your back. ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 16, 2007, 07:58:24 PM
You know, I can't help but get the feeling that the moderators on this board are a tad less inclined to stick firmly by the rules, but at the same time, have the great ability to act on emotions.
Actually, we do stick to the rules and try to apply them even-handedly.

As a Catholic, I am in every way a guest on these forums,
We are all guests on this forum- even me. Being a Catholic doesn't make you any less of a guest than I am.
Yes, it is an Orthodox Forum, but we moderators have also muted posters and locked threads for repeatedly insulting other Churches such as the Catholic and Anglican Churches. For example, I notice you are Maronite, well we even have a policy about how your Church can be referred to on this forum (see http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13388.msg184953.html#msg184953).
Healthy debate is good, but mindless insults with nothing to back them up but derision are not. 

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 16, 2007, 07:59:35 PM
No, read my post again, I'm talking about you. Don't you know it's rude to eavesdrop on other's conversations? Especially when they're talking about you behind your back. ;D
Oh, that's all right then....I'll let you live.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: FrChris on November 16, 2007, 08:08:28 PM
Since there seems to be a great concern about what can be said and what can't, maybe I should just let everyone know that Mr Y pretty much has it down in his post. In summary:

Everyone has the right to ask sincere questions. This can be perceived by the attitude of the original post, as well as in the ensuing debate, if any is generated.

People also have the right to be an idiot on this site. Some posters exercise this right more so than others. If you post something that is a product of your idiocy, I am confident that this will be pointed out by the other posters on this site, and you will be corrected. It is up to you regarding whether you learn from this or not.

No one has the right in the Public Forums to use foul language, ad hominems, insult another, post pornography, solicit people looking for a future spouse, link to another message forum, or advertise products.

The Private Forums are available for those who wish to have a no-holds-barred conversation on politics and the differences in Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox theologies. You must PM me if you want to post in the Private Forum.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Νεκτάριος on November 16, 2007, 08:37:36 PM
No one has the right in the Public Forums to use foul language, ad hominems, insult another, post pornography, solicit people looking for a future spouse, link to another message forum, or advertise products.

Now that we have the English practice forum going, my next idea was a find a Russian bride forum.  I take it this probably won't fly...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 16, 2007, 09:27:19 PM
As a Catholic, I am in every way a guest on these forums, so I am only exploring the limits of our 'freedom'. The question was serious (sort of).
:) I vouch for Magic.  He's a Brit and one of the good 'uns.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: GiC on November 16, 2007, 09:34:11 PM
Now that we have the English practice forum going, my next idea was a find a Russian bride forum.  I take it this probably won't fly...

The forum would hold two OC.net records: least posts and most views. ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: RPConover on November 16, 2007, 10:24:36 PM
The forum would hold two OC.net records: least posts and most views. ;)
Father, I love the Icon of St. Patrick you're using on here... do you have any idea if it's possible to get a reproduction of it? My middle name is Patrick, whether that was in honor of the Saint I've never asked, but I do have a fondness for him.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paradosis on November 16, 2007, 10:51:45 PM
Father, bless

It's nice to see you here Father Ambrose (Irish Hermit).  This is ForeverAdam.  :)

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 16, 2007, 11:04:46 PM
Father, I love the Icon of St. Patrick you're using on here... do you have any idea if it's possible to get a reproduction of it?
It was painted a few years back (1994?) for one of the chapels at a Saint Petersburg university where there is a Celtic Club of young Orthodox students. The clergy support them and there are special services (Akathist and Presanctified) On Saint Patrick's day.  I have written to them twice asking the name of the iconographer but never any reply.  The best I can suggest is making a good quality print from the icon on the website or asking an American iconographer to paint a reproduction for you. 

Website
http://www.trilistnik.ru/celtic.php
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 16, 2007, 11:15:44 PM
It's nice to see you here Father Ambrose (Irish Hermit).  This is ForeverAdam.  :)

I see you are still on CAF and doing sterling work to present holy Orthodoxy accurately.  Thumbs up!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 17, 2007, 12:28:05 AM
Father, I love the Icon of St. Patrick you're using on here... do you have any idea if it's possible to get a reproduction of it?
I placed a list of monasteries and various iconographers who paint icons of Celtic Saints..

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13412.0.html

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 17, 2007, 01:04:37 AM
I just broke my rule and posted on the ECath forum.

The thread was on the "Statement of joint catholic-orthodox commission."

I asked, out of consistency, why wasn't it on the non-Catholic forum? ::)

I also came across something else interesting:

I hate to do this, but I do have to request that PMs and posts from other forums not be placed here at OC.net without permission of the original authors.

+Fr Chris
Administrator
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 17, 2007, 01:21:15 AM
MODERTION:
ialmisry,
It's not a good idea to post stuff from other forums on OCnet. Firstly, you do not have the posters' permission to transfer their posts to here. Secondly, OCnet is not a place to recruit posters to fight battles elsewhere. Thirdly, linking to other forums is not permitted on OCnet, and although you haven't given a direct link, you have told us exactly where it is, how to find it, and who the posters involved are.
George
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 17, 2007, 01:58:50 AM
I just broke my rule and posted on the ECath forum.

The thread was on the "Statement of joint catholic-orthodox commission."

I asked, out of consistency, why wasn't it on the non-Catholic forum? ::)

I also came across something else interesting:


Looks like dogs returning to the feast of their own regurgitations...

Again...

Keep us posted on what happens...

Arsenios

Edited to add:  WHOAH!

Looks like we are not to talk about the old board's post mortem developments on this forum...

Do I have that right, George?  Or is it simply that Isa was too specific and reproduced the egregious icon?

A.

For purposes of clarification, Isa's post was modified due to pasting text from another discussion forum within OC.net without an indication of securing the permission of the original author.

Perhaps this is something that was done at 'another forum'; it's not something we do here.

Any mistake done was do to a lack of familiarity with OC.net, and not due to any desire to place us in legal entanglements, so there will be no disciplinary measures taken.

No harm, no foul! Now, let's get back to posting and learning!

+Fr Chris
Administrator
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 17, 2007, 02:18:34 AM
Do I have that right, George? 
Absolutely. But just don't go cutting and pasting huge chunks of it here!
If there's an issue brought up there which you wish to discuss here, by all means, start a thread about it in the appropriate forum (for example, here (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,216.0.html) you will find a thread  about Josephat Kuntsevich which was started as a result of a debate on another Catholic forum.)
What we don't want is irrelevant copied and pasted huge chunks of other fora without permission of the original author, naming posters on other fora in ways which target them, or OCnet providing advertising for other fora (not that we have much choice with this thread at the moment!) :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 17, 2007, 04:13:47 AM
Just one more thing guys,
I think this thread is an important record of what happened to the EC forum on CAF, and many thanks to stashko for starting it! It also served as a rallying point, almost like a beacon!
Please try to keep this thread on topic, that is, for issues dealing directly with the closure and removal of the Eastern Christian forum and it's posts from CAF and related banning of CAF members etc.
If threads go off into tangents, we split them in to smaller threads with different topics, so try not to post off topic stuff here, or it may be moved somewhere else.
Please don't be put off from posting in this thread by any means! I know a lot of you have had a very bad experience with "moderation" at CAF. Rest assured that we don't operate like that!
We want to keep this thread. That's why I'm encouraging you to keep it on topic. In other words,
1) Don't post technical questions in this thread, they go in the "technical issues" forum.
2) Don't post stuff not related to the CAF EC Forum removal and bannings here, find an appropriate thread or start one.
3) Don't start debates unrelated to the CAF EC Forum removal in this thread, start them in an appropriate thread.
4) Do use this thread to discuss the recent CAF EC Forum removal and bannings.
5) Do use this thread as the initial "reunion" rallying point.

Thanks,
George
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: montalban on November 17, 2007, 08:34:44 AM
I really liked it over there.

Michael

I was invited to that forum by a Catholic. Initially I had written to a Catholic site about points they raised. I was invited onto their forum to discuss things but the Catholic mod (who'd invited me) kept closing down my threads and said that I should really be going to Catholic Answers.

Catholics don't take well-put argument very well. They're in such a shock that there's a logical/viable alternative to their church - one that's always taught Jesus' message.



Now I'm at foru.ms (which used to be called "Christian forums" but is less and less Chrisitan - as a lot of secularists / relativist Christians are in positions of power.

Edit: Link to another forum disabled.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Heracleides on November 17, 2007, 10:45:30 AM
For those wanting to recover & save their postings on CAF using Google, I thought I'd give an example of what to type into the Google search box... for instance:

 site:forums.catholic.com fr ambrose

Doing this brings up 5,550 hits (one can of course narrow the search by typing in additional terms).  Once you find whatever it is you're wanting to save, click on "cached" and once the cached page comes up, save it (I prefer saving such pages as single file *.mht pages). Hope this helps those seeking to recover some of the more recent gems from CAF before they vanish completely.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 17, 2007, 11:12:05 AM
For those wanting to recover & save their postings on CAF using Google, I thought I'd give an example of what to type into the Google search box... for instance:

 site:forums.catholic.com fr ambrose

Doing this brings up 5,550 hits (one can of course narrow the search by typing in additional terms).  Once you find whatever it is you're wanting to save, click on "cached" and once the cached page comes up, save it (I prefer saving such pages as single file *.mht pages). Hope this helps those seeking to recover some of the more recent gems from CAF before they vanish completely.
This is excellent advice Heracleides!
But do you see what is going to happen? This thread will continue to grow, and some people may not see it...ever!
Here is what I suggest you do:
1) Go to the "Technical Help forum" (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/board,19.0.html)
2) Start a new topic entitled "How to Retreive and Save Removed Web Pages"
3) Enter (copy and paste) your advice
4) Come back to this thread and write a new post stating: "For those wanting to recover & save their postings on CAF using Google, I have outlined how to do so here [link to your post in Technical Help]

George
(Global Moderator)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Heracleides on November 17, 2007, 11:50:33 AM
Roger wilco  ;)

For those wanting to recover & save their postings on CAF using Google, I have outlined how to do so here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13420.msg185550.html#msg185550 (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13420.msg185550.html#msg185550)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 17, 2007, 09:07:09 PM
Oh no! Fr. Ambrose is here! I better get posting if I want to have more posts than him! ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 17, 2007, 09:13:59 PM
Oh no! Fr. Ambrose is here! I better get posting if I want to have more posts than him! ;D
I see you are heading me off at the moment with 0.146 posts per day.  I have only 0.121   ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 17, 2007, 09:20:43 PM
I see you are heading me off at the moment with 0.146 posts per day.  I have only 0.121   ;D

Yep! I'm off like a...turtle. But you know the story! It's the rabbit who takes the pit stop and loses! :P ;D

It's mainly because I signed up for this forum at the beginning of this year and forgot I did... :-[
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 17, 2007, 09:30:46 PM
It's mainly because I signed up for this forum at the beginning of this year and forgot I did... :-[

It might be a good idea then if you (and other "CAF Refugees") visit this post by Fr. Chris:    
Suggestions from the New Members, and especially former CAF folks!  (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13416.msg185501.html#msg185501)

Your responses there will help us to understand how to help serve you and look to the future of OCnet.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 17, 2007, 09:47:33 PM
It might be a good idea then if you (and other "CAF Refugees") visit this post by Fr. Chris:    
Suggestions from the New Members, and especially former CAF folks!  (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13416.msg185501.html#msg185501)

Your responses there will help us to understand how to help serve you and look to the future of OCnet.

Alright, thanks!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 18, 2007, 11:04:49 PM
Brother Bogoljub  were are you ....are you here under another name  i always enjoyed your posts .....Brother Stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: danman916 on November 19, 2007, 05:48:19 PM
I really liked it over there.

But now I am gone, too bad so sad....the Orthodox participants were very good for the most part, and the amateur Rc apologists were unequipped to handle strong defenses from the perspective of Holy Orthodoxy. They basically train themselves to answer protestant objections, so they are not ready to handle real Catholics who disagree with them over the Papacy and certain other doctrinal points. Often they would create straw men by portraying Orthodox as another form of protestant.

Because the Orthodox were usually too savvy, the Rc apologists had a very difficult time dismissing the Orthodox through character assasination or other means, so they had to rely on facts. Rc sources of information are inadequate, actually, and they were often caught off guard by Orthodox interpretations of events and translations of Patristic quotes (to name just two examples). Reliance on sources like the old Catholic Encyclopedia puts most Rc apologists at a significant disadvantage, we would tell them this all the time but as each new crop of gung ho apologists would come in they would have referred back to the same outdated erroneous materials. Even Catholic Answers own materials were often deficient, with errors that should embarass them, but they did not do regular updates or corrections, apparently

I believe the archives (or some of them) are still available for viewing temporarily. Should make interesting reading for anyone so inclined.

I would suggest anyone of a mind to, going over there just to read the archives and copy posts of interest for your files, while they are still available.

Michael


Michael, I am saddened at your polemical argument over here.

Many of us Roman Catholics neither fashioned ourselves as apologists, nor are we inept, as you seem to be asserting.

I am very saddened to read such bashing of Catholics over here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 19, 2007, 06:21:31 PM
Michael, I am saddened at your polemical argument over here.

Many of us Roman Catholics neither fashioned ourselves as apologists, nor are we inept, as you seem to be asserting.

Not that anyone's comments need defending, but it is natural for someone who has left a familiar place because s/he now feels unwelcome to have overly harsh critiques of their former "home."

I am very saddened to read such bashing of Catholics over here. 

Not everyone bashes Catholics here - but y'all are in the minority, for sure.  Again, it is natural for some of the former CAF folks to be more critical than they would normally be, considering the circumstances of their departure.  Maybe they're overstating, maybe they're not.  If I were you, I probably wouldn't take it personally.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 19, 2007, 06:23:54 PM
Being a long time member here and a Catholic I don't see much bashing, especially by Michael, though I've also noticed elsewhere there is a discussion thread to drop the Traditional Catholic SubForum...

james
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 19, 2007, 06:25:54 PM
though I've also noticed elsewhere there is a discussion thread to drop the Traditional Catholic SubForum... 

???
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 19, 2007, 06:45:58 PM
Do I need to type out the letters of that forum being discussed ?


ps- The LA Angels of Anaheim traded their shortstop to the White Sox for pitcher John Garland...

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 19, 2007, 06:48:55 PM
Do I need to type out the third and first letters of that forum being discussed ?

Oh, got it.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 19, 2007, 08:01:49 PM

Michael, I am saddened at your polemical argument over here.

Many of us Roman Catholics neither fashioned ourselves as apologists, nor are we inept, as you seem to be asserting.

I am very saddened to read such bashing of Catholics over here.
Hang on, be fair!
You seem to be implying that Michael is "bashing" all Catholics on CAF. Yet Michale makes it clear in his post that he is referring to the "amateur RC apologists" who were theologically arguing with the Orthodox posters in the subforum, and not the entire Catholic "population" on CAF.

George
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 19, 2007, 08:42:49 PM

Michael, I am saddened at your polemical argument over here.

Many of us Roman Catholics neither fashioned ourselves as apologists, nor are we inept, as you seem to be asserting.

I am very saddened to read such bashing of Catholics over here.
Dear Danman,

I am sorry that I offended you. Looking once again over the post, it does sound a bit polemical (and a bit out of character for me), although that was not my intention...I suppose my emotions were showing.

I was not directing those comment at all Roman Catholics, and not at you, I have always regarded you to be a gentleman.

Nevertheless my points stand. No, not all RC regarded themselves as Apologists, but it was an apologetics website, and there was no shortage of them, whether they would call themselves by that title or not. There were indeed many RC apologists (or polemicists), coming in waves, ready to kick butt and taking names. But they were often unprepared for Orthodoxy...they were accustomed to debating Protestants. That is (I think) why so many of them were so keen on identifying Holy Orthodoxy with some kind of dissenting bunch of heretics who are phobic over authority. Those were straw arguments, setting up for an easy kill, but unsustainable.

These people did not know what they were dealing with, and had much to learn. They were also unprepared by their own resources. I think Roman Catholic apologetics benefitted considerably by the presence of the Orthodox there.

[BTW, Do you remember that discussion you and I had over the "Letter of Clement to James"? The CAF is still quoting it in their literature http://www.catholic.com/library/Origins_of_Peter_as_Pope.asp (http://www.catholic.com/library/Origins_of_Peter_as_Pope.asp). You told me that you contacted CAF, you said...
Quote
Personally, I just want to know the truth about it. Not that the entire primacy of the Bishop of Rome hangs on this single reference, but it would be nice to know the truth either way.
and I suppose you did contact them, but CAF never made the correction.]

If I regret anything about that post early in this thread, it is that I neglected to mention all the fine people I had the pleasure of dealing with on and off for years. Roman Catholic and Orthodox alike.

Michael
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: danman916 on November 20, 2007, 12:34:33 PM
  I am sorry that I offended you. Looking once again over the post, it does sound a bit polemical (and a bit out of character for me), although that was not my intention...I suppose my emotions were showing.
Oh, it's ok. I guess i just was being reactionary. I have been busy with work so haven't been on the boards much over the past few months, and I was shocked to see what happened last week.

Quote
Nevertheless my points stand. No, not all RC regarded themselves as Apologists, but it was an apologetics website,
true enough. There are some very good debaters there, and some that were probably there for cheap shots too.

Quote
and there was no shortage of them, whether they would call themselves by that title or not. There were indeed many RC apologists (or polemicists), coming in waves, ready to kick butt and taking names.
It is interesting that you say this. I have found that apologetics seems to be an outlet for something internal to males. It is as if apologetics is the battlefield, and they are out to conquer and defeat their foe. I saw a bit of this in myself a few years ago, I must say, and I didn't like it. Apologetics is fine, but it seems to be turned into a blood sport lately. I go to many discussion boards, and it's the same all the way around. It's probably just a result of so many people connected on the web.

Quote
But they were often unprepared for Orthodoxy...they were accustomed to debating Protestants.
I can see that because of my own background.

 
Quote
I think Roman Catholic apologetics benefitted considerably by the presence of the Orthodox there.
In general, I agree. I know I learned a lot from reading the posts of the many solid Orthodox posters there about what Orthodoxy believes.

Quote
BTW, Do you remember that discussion you and I had over the "Letter of Clement to James"?
Yes, I do, and I still have the PM to the administrators about it. I saw it yesterday, as I was deleting old PM's on my account. They never addressed it, nor did they respond back. How frustrating. Shouldn't we all be pursuing the truth even if it causes us to take a new perspective? I certainly think so.

Quote
If I regret anything about that post early in this thread, it is that I neglected to mention all the fine people I had the pleasure of dealing with on and off for years. Roman Catholic and Orthodox alike.
Oh, It's ok. I'm sorry I jumped on you yesterday. I was acting out of emotion. But it is a shame that so many are gone there now, because the board will suffer from the loss.

God Bless
 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 20, 2007, 03:56:40 PM
Danman916,

I'm glad you found your way here. I hope you'll join in on the RC/EO discussion here!  :)

In Christ,
Danica
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: danman916 on November 20, 2007, 04:28:48 PM
Why, thank you Danica!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 20, 2007, 04:34:48 PM
Danman916,

I'm glad you found your way here. I hope you'll join in on the RC/EO discussion here!  :)
(http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/solace/grouphug.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 20, 2007, 08:57:34 PM
For those who were not banned, do any of you still go to CAF? I've seen an increase in questions about Orthodoxy in the NCR section and I was wondering if there was even anyone around to answer them.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 20, 2007, 09:02:49 PM
Hello,

For those who were not banned, do any of you still go to CAF? I've seen an increase in questions about Orthodoxy in the NCR section and I was wondering if there was even anyone around to answer them.
Yes, quite a bit. In fact, I'm logged on to both here and there at the same time. But I don't really do any Catholic/Orthodox threads. They're too hard to find, and given where they are located, they are probably infested with Protestants and Muslims, among others.

I am doing quite a bit of posting in regards to Sacred Music right now.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: brittrossiter on November 20, 2007, 09:15:35 PM
I'm not banned (yet).  I still visit periodically, but far less frequently than I used to, and I haven't posted there in ages.

I know ForeverAdam is still doing a fantastic job over there asserting the Orthodox position.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 20, 2007, 09:42:00 PM
Today I have been locked out of CAF.

This is what now pops up when I try to access it.

______________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Excess mod/admin resources required to monitor acct.

This change will be lifted: Never
______________________________

I have not contributed even one message to CAF since the Great Change which was two weeks ago. 

So asserting that "Excess mod/admin resources required to monitor acct." is simply , well, impossible to understand.  It seems a manufactured reason to get rid of me - and after TWO weeks!!  I am at a loss for words!

I've logged out of the site which now enables me to view it as a Guest.  And I see that my name still features there as a "Senior Member."  There is nothing to indicate that I have been locked out forever.

See my last post
http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2936265&postcount=123

Fr Ambrose



Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 20, 2007, 10:14:31 PM
Hello,

Today I have been locked out of CAF.
That's not cool. Did they give you a reason for this?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 20, 2007, 10:28:20 PM
Hello,
That's not cool. Did they give you a reason for this?

Only whatever he posted up there.

Today I have been locked out of CAF.

Sad.  I wouldn't want to stay in a repressive environment, anyway (and I gather that you agree, considering you haven't posted there in quite a while).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 20, 2007, 10:44:47 PM
Hello,
That's not cool. Did they give you a reason for this?

I got locked out for the same "reason"...

It is all part and parcel of the ongoing meltdown of the CAF...

"Concealed Lockout" is now the "Answer" at Catholic "Answers" Forum...


Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 20, 2007, 10:49:53 PM
Today I have been locked out of CAF.

This is what now pops up when I try to access it.

______________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Excess mod/admin resources required to monitor acct.

This change will be lifted: Never
______________________________

I have not contributed even one message to CAF since the Great Change which was two weeks ago. 

So asserting that "Excess mod/admin resources required to monitor acct." is simply , well, impossible to understand.  It seems a manufactured reason to get rid of me - and after TWO weeks!!  I am at a loss for words!

I've logged out of the site which now enables me to view it as a Guest.  And I see that my name still features there as a "Senior Member."  There is nothing to indicate that I have been locked out forever.

See my last post
http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2936265&postcount=123

Fr Ambrose

Father Ambrose, I am sorry it did indeed finally come to you too...

And you, like the rest of us, are still listed as active and senior posters, as CAF continues its shameful cover-up of its shameful deeds...

Do you think they are now reading your PM's??

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 20, 2007, 11:02:23 PM
Hello,
That's not cool. Did they give you a reason for this?
*
Yes, I now have an e-mail from Therese Martin who is the Super Moderator.  She says that CAF does not have the resources to monitor my posts and so she has made a decision to lock me out.

Considering that I have not sent one message for the last two weeks I have to wonder if their resources are now minimal.  :(


Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: brittrossiter on November 20, 2007, 11:11:37 PM
Father Ambrose, I am sorry it did indeed finally come to you too...

And you, like the rest of us, are still listed as active and senior posters, as CAF continues its shameful cover-up of its shameful deeds...

Do you think they are now reading your PM's??

Arsenios

That would sadden me, but it wouldn't surprise me, and would be consistent with the mods' other recent actions.  It might also explain the two week lag between Father's last post and his ticket getting yanked. 

I do note that there is nothing posted in the CAF TOS (at least nothing that I've been able to find) that discloses that CAF can/will/intends to read users' private messages.   If they've reserved that right for themselves, then it's buried deeply somewhere in the boilerplate. 

 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 20, 2007, 11:12:15 PM
What bothers me the most about this is the "locking out" of people by CAF.
Even the Innkeeper who had "no room at the inn" offered the Holy Family the stable with the animals.
Rather than lock people out, couldn't CAF simply restrict Orthodox posters to the "stable" (i.e., the forum "Non-Catholic Religions")?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 20, 2007, 11:37:46 PM
...Not everyone bashes Catholics here - but y'all are in the minority, for sure.  Again, it is natural for some of the former CAF folks to be more critical than they would normally be, considering the circumstances of their departure. ...

The word is "expulsion."  Or is it "purge?"
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 20, 2007, 11:47:23 PM
For those who were not banned, do any of you still go to CAF? I've seen an increase in questions about Orthodoxy in the NCR section and I was wondering if there was even anyone around to answer them.

I go from time to time.  I won't post on the ECath forum, but as I stated above, I made a recent exception.

Btw, some have asked me if I avoided the forum because of my recent moderation.  No, I've just come back from a convention: the post was right before I left.  (The convention gave me a chance to enjoy Veniamin and TinaC's home parish hospitality. Btw, if you have the chance to go to San Antonio, take it.  Remember the Alamo!).  It's just been a lack of time and opportunity recently to post.

I post sometimes in the NCR, but it wastes a lot of time to find interesting threads, so I spend it more profitably here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 20, 2007, 11:49:47 PM
What bothers me the most about this is the "locking out" of people by CAF.
*
I am bothered by the fact that those who know of my expulsion, the Catholics and Orthodox who read of it here, will not dare to mention it on CAF.  I have been friends with many of them for 3 years on CAF but the fear of being locked out themselves will prevent their mentioning what has happened to me.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Young Believer on November 21, 2007, 12:22:33 AM
Dear friends in Christ,

This is Adrian, who posts under The Augustinian.  I am dismayed to hear that my fellow Orthodox have been treated in such a harsh way.  I almost feel like getting myself banned as well for solidarity's sake.  Perhaps I'll post my letter to the archbishop renouncing my Roman Catholic errors.   ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 21, 2007, 12:23:05 AM
If they are monitoring PM's I am in trouble.  :-\ There was a man on there that asked me SPECIFICALLY to give him more information about Eastern Orthodoxy. I didn't give him info on the thread in which he asked for it. But I did PM him a link to this site. I told him I know enough to really love EO but not enough to answer his questions, and directed him here.

I would be glad to go down in flames of glory for you Father Ambrose.  :laugh: I can mention it if you like. Although of all the posters on there I rarely ever had anyone pay any attention to me, so it is quite possible they won't even notice. ::)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 21, 2007, 12:55:22 AM
I would be glad to go down in flames of glory for you Father Ambrose.  :laugh: I can mention it if you like.
(http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon14.gif)

Much appreciated but you are more valuable on CAF, correcting some of the many mistaken ideas about Orthodoxy and giving them a better view of us.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papa Gregorio on November 21, 2007, 01:01:27 AM
Perhaps we might now all be convinced that this latest episode in the litany of shameful and draconian crackdowns most probably amounts to a concerted effort to snuff out Orthodox criticism of Roman Catholicism on the CAF.

A grand shame on CA.    
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 21, 2007, 01:17:43 AM
For those who were not banned, do any of you still go to CAF? I've seen an increase in questions about Orthodoxy in the NCR section and I was wondering if there was even anyone around to answer them.

Not nearly as much...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 21, 2007, 01:45:18 AM
*
I am bothered by the fact that those who know of my expulsion, the Catholics and Orthodox who read of it here, will not dare to mention it on CAF.  I have been friends with many of them for 3 years on CAF but the fear of being locked out themselves will prevent their mentioning what has happened to me.

Father Ambrose ;on Byzantine catholic forum ,i mentioned you and all the other orthodox posters being banned ,,hope you don't mind ....stashko  ... there im sighed in as stanislav....Blagoslovi Oche  ...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 21, 2007, 01:55:02 AM
*
I am bothered by the fact that those who know of my expulsion, the Catholics and Orthodox who read of it here, will not dare to mention it on CAF.  I have been friends with many of them for 3 years on CAF but the fear of being locked out themselves will prevent their mentioning what has happened to me.

I'm sorry to hear that, I'm sure they didn't mean to offend you or anyone else; perhaps they were banned, too ;)--I have mentioned my disappointment to them several times, though, but I don't think they are going to change their minds...many of us on CAF have, in fact, expressed our opinions to them several times and seem to keep getting the same answers...:(
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paradosis on November 21, 2007, 02:36:39 AM
Today I have been locked out of CAF.

This is what now pops up when I try to access it.

______________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Excess mod/admin resources required to monitor acct.

This change will be lifted: Never
______________________________

I have not contributed even one message to CAF since the Great Change which was two weeks ago. 

So asserting that "Excess mod/admin resources required to monitor acct." is simply , well, impossible to understand.  It seems a manufactured reason to get rid of me - and after TWO weeks!!  I am at a loss for words!

I've logged out of the site which now enables me to view it as a Guest.  And I see that my name still features there as a "Senior Member."  There is nothing to indicate that I have been locked out forever.

See my last post
http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2936265&postcount=123

Fr Ambrose

I'm sorry to hear about this, Father.  After finding this out, I hardly have the desire to even visit CAF anymore.   
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 21, 2007, 06:11:38 AM
*
Yes, I now have an e-mail from Therese Martin who is the Super Moderator.  She says that CAF does not have the resources to monitor my posts and so she has made a decision to lock me out.

Considering that I have not sent one message for the last two weeks I have to wonder if their resources are now minimal.  :(
Sorry to hear about your expulsion from CAF, but you are not missing much, because the new Eastern Catholicism forum is not all that interesting.  In fact, the new forum seems to be designed in order to block out the Eastern Orthodox posters completely, while simultaneously controlling the Eastern Catholics.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 21, 2007, 06:54:59 AM
For those who were not banned, do any of you still go to CAF? I've seen an increase in questions about Orthodoxy in the NCR section and I was wondering if there was even anyone around to answer them.

I've been posting in the EC forum, significantly more than I have in the past year - chiefly to try and provide accurate answers to queries, since the place is essentially bereft of knowledgeable ECs and EOs at present, other than Anhelyna/wannabe and Michael/Hesychios - who have been contributing sporadically, and Woodstock - who has been posting a bit more frequently, and a couple of posts by Rony/ronyodish. I saw a single post by Al/a pilgrim, but I know that his work/travel schedule prevents him from contributing very often. I've seen no sign of Marduk/mardukm or Ghosty. As to the EO threads in the Non-Catholic Religions forum, they are few and far between and require a lot of hunting.

I haven't spent much time there these last two days because the Churches/Rites thread that George asked if I'd create has been occupying a lot of my time (chiefly because of the time required for formatting - I had the text exc for the need to do a few updates). I'd have cut and pasted some of it from my version that Joe made into a Reference Thread at CAF (formatting was essentially the same as here, as opposed to the copy at ByzCath, which differed somewhat in coding), but I see that Joe's Reference Thread collection has disappeared in its entirety. [Before I give the Admins or Mods here any heartburn about copyright issues, the text - which I've posted most everywhere on the web at one time or another - I know there's an old copy here somewhere from the days when Dustin, Phil, and Robert were essentially the entire admin/mod group - is never identical. With each posting, I've edited, deleted, updated, modified. I suspect Michael can verify that, he's probably read every version there is or ever has been  ;D ]

Bless Father,

I cannot believe that your keyboard has finally proven too much for CAF's resources  :o  to handle - Joe always managed quite well, as I recollect.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 21, 2007, 07:30:07 AM
Unbelievable people over there. Sure, I was "banned". Never being comfortable over there, anyway, it's no big deal. I made one post there to test what was being described here. But the gall of those folks to keep spamming my email (no matter that I've unsubscribed and they they've disappeared me) is astounding.

Guess they don't read the "Reason for de-subscription".
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 08:14:18 AM
*
I am bothered by the fact that those who know of my expulsion, the Catholics and Orthodox who read of it here, will not dare to mention it on CAF.  I have been friends with many of them for 3 years on CAF but the fear of being locked out themselves will prevent their mentioning what has happened to me.

Dear Fr Ambrose, bless,

I must admit I've only heard rumors until I read today in your post here that they locked you out. I don't like spreading rumors, but now that I know this to be a fact, and not being able to do anything worthwhile myself on CAF owing to my ignorance (I try at times...), I'm going to post this on both EC and NCR boards. I'll include a link to your post here, unless you tell me you'd mind that in the next 24hrs or so (I'm not sure about those time differences between Serbia and New Zealand). 

In Christ,
Danica in Serbia
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 21, 2007, 08:18:48 AM
Dear Fr Ambrose, bless,

I must admit I've only heard rumors until I read today in your post here that they locked you out. I don't like spreading rumors, but now that I know this to be a fact, and not being able to do anything worthwhile myself on CAF owing to my ignorance (I try at times...), I'm going to post this on both EC and NCR boards. I'll include a link to your post here, unless you tell me you'd mind that in the next 24hrs or so (I'm not sure about those time differences between Serbia and New Zealand). 

In Christ,
Danica in Serbia

Danica,

Just be aware that the post will only last until it's noticed - it and your membership will disappear simultaneously.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 08:42:42 AM
Danica,

Just be aware that the post will only last until it's noticed - it and your membership will disappear simultaneously.

Many years,

Neil

Of course I'm aware of that, but thank you  :) - I plan on starting eye-catching threads in at least 2-3 boards simultaneously.  ;)

Do you know what the best time for that would be (as in: members active, moderators sleeping  ;D)? I'm in the GMT+1 time zone.

Thank you!

In Christ,
Danica
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 21, 2007, 09:06:54 AM
Dear Fr Ambrose, bless,

I must admit I've only heard rumors until I read today in your post here that they locked you out. I don't like spreading rumors, but now that I know this to be a fact, and not being able to do anything worthwhile myself on CAF owing to my ignorance (I try at times...), I'm going to post this on both EC and NCR boards. I'll include a link to your post here, unless you tell me you'd mind that in the next 24hrs or so (I'm not sure about those time differences between Serbia and New Zealand). 

In Christ,
Danica in Serbia
*
Danica, draga sestra, neka Bog te blagoslovi za ovaj predlog ali...

You are probably a better witness to holy Orthodoxy by staying there and helping to present a good and accurate picture of our faith.

Time difference.  New Zealand is on summer time right now.  We are exactly 12 hours ahead of you in Serbia.


Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 09:21:25 AM
*
Danica, draga sestra, neka Bog te blagoslovi za ovaj predlog ali...

You are probably a better witness to holy Orthodoxy by staying there and helping to present a good and accurate picture of our faith.



Dear Father, bless,

Respectfully, I disagree. I have little to offer and Forever Adam is doing a great job there now - he's very balanced, charitable, and informed. I'm just a young woman who's into literature and all I've ever said on CAF was how some things about Orthodoxy have made me personally FEEL...  ::) not very helpful. Besides, I'm sorta partial to Catholics and can't bring myself to tell them there might be something wrong about the RCC... even when I believe it  :-\

So, I'll just take it you have nothing against me sending a link to your post here in the posts I plan on sending (it's public anyway, I just wanted to make sure and now I'm sure)!

In Christ,
Danica
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 09:44:12 AM
Dear Father, bless,

Respectfully, I disagree. I have little to offer and Forever Adam is doing a great job there now - he's very balanced, charitable, and informed. I'm just a young woman who's into literature and all I've ever said on CAF was how some things about Orthodoxy have made me personally FEEL...  ::) not very helpful. Besides, I'm sorta partial to Catholics and can't bring myself to tell them there might be something wrong about the RCC... even when I believe it  :-\

So, I'll just take it you have nothing against me sending a link to your post here in the posts I plan on sending (it's public anyway, I just wanted to make sure and now I'm sure)!

In Christ,
Danica

I know you will think that I should be wearing a tinfoil hat for saying this, but isn't is possible that Fr. Ambrose was locked out of CAF, not because of something he wrote there, but for what he has been saying here? The moderators of CAF could be reading this thread and locking people out because of what they say here, in which case, this post of yours has just removed any element of surprise.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 09:45:10 AM
I just sent the info on Fr Ambrose's secret ban, quoting his post here and providing a link to it. Hopefully it will remain on CAF (Apologetics, Eastern Catholicism and Non-Catholic Religions boards) long enough to make at least some people think.

I'm hoping the ban I'll get will give me more free time to devote to my studies.  ;D

In Christ,
Danica
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 09:48:06 AM
I know you will think that I should be wearing a tinfoil hat for saying this, but isn't is possible that Fr. Ambrose was locked out of CAF, not because of something he wrote there, but for what he has been saying here? The moderators of CAF could be reading this thread and locking people out because of what they say here, in which case, this post of yours has just removed any element of surprise.

Even if that is the case, they had about 5 minutes of advance warning  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 09:59:36 AM
I'll be interested to see what happens!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 10:04:21 AM
Here's a link to one of the threads:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=200230

I hope I don't have to follow rules on providing descriptions when posting a link - we all know what this one's about  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 21, 2007, 10:11:32 AM
Even if that is the case, they had about 5 minutes of advance warning  ;D
*
Well, I really really really need to lie down for a rest but you've made the night so exciting that I'll stay up a bit longer and see what develops. (http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 10:22:02 AM
Bravo paradoxy!
"Oh I'm just a young woman who's into literature..."
Yeah, and Joan of Arc was "just a peasant girl"! :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 10:30:39 AM
*
Well, I really really really need to lie down for a rest but you've made the night so exciting that I'll stay up a bit longer and see what develops. (http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)


Sorry, Father! I should've done it when you're rested.  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 10:34:06 AM
Guess what? They just removed the thread.
Didn't see that one coming.... :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 10:45:09 AM
Guess what? They just removed the thread.
Didn't see that one coming.... :D

It was there for a full hour - that's something!  ;)

And there have been quite a few guests on this thread since!  :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 10:49:35 AM
There's a reaction to the missing thread:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=2994699#post2994699
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 21, 2007, 10:50:59 AM
Sorry, Father! I should've done it when you're rested.  ;)
*
Well, you are a feisty Srpkinja!!   :)   Thanks for what you did - putting the truth out before the general public.  The secret banning of the Orthodox (about 11 of us now) is not exactly a great credit to the openness and honesty of the Admin over at CAF.

I see that the threads lasted for about 1 hour.  Did you notice how many people read them?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 10:58:18 AM
*
Well, you are a feisty Srpkinja!!   :)   Thanks for what you did - putting the truth out before the general public.  The secret banning of the Orthodox (about 11 of us now) is not exactly a great credit to the openness and honesty of the Admin over at CAF.

I see that the threads lasted for about 1 hour.  Did you notice how many people read them?

Bless, Father.
There were about 50 views for all three threads total.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 11:02:38 AM
Well, I'm out of CAF  ;D

Everything appears normal, but I can't post.

They're efficient.  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 21, 2007, 11:05:17 AM
Well I have not posted here for many years

However I feel I have to point out that I'm not happy at the situation there

I had started a new thread on mysterious happenings and guess what ??

POOF

Vanished.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: dranzal on November 21, 2007, 11:05:58 AM
I saw the initial thread, but now do not have access to it.  I also tried your link to the reaction thread.  It has also been shut down.  I have to say that I am often naive, but I am surprised, especially since I recall one of the moderators of the E. Christianity forum praising the level of knowledge displayed on it.  These further actions surprise me even more.  Have they given no one a reasonable response?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 21, 2007, 11:08:05 AM
Wannabe has started another thread.

Link Disabled
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 21, 2007, 11:09:13 AM
Well...that was fun...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 11:14:08 AM
Well I have not posted here for many years

However I feel I have to point out that I'm not happy at the situation there

I had started a new thread on mysterious happenings and guess what ??

POOF

Vanished.

Hey Wannabee! I saw your threads - the third one is likely to be closed any minute now.  ;D

And hi there, dranzal! The mod who praised the wealth of info on the old EC forum was probably good ol' Joe Monahan - he was forcibly 'resigned'. Also without an explanation. Sigh.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 11:15:38 AM
I saw the initial thread, but now do not have access to it.  I also tried your link to the reaction thread.  It has also been shut down.
Wouldn't it be good if someone had some screenshots of the threads before they were taken down?  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 21, 2007, 11:17:39 AM
Keep watching

I'm really irritated at the loss of so much from there.

My latest thread has just vanished - wonder why  :-\

The other one came back and was locked
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 21, 2007, 11:18:59 AM
DRAT

Hadn't thought of that - though I do often keep copies :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 11:24:19 AM
The other one came back and was locked
I wonder if that has something to do with one or more of the five "guests" currently reading this thread (who's ISP's I can see btw)?

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: dranzal on November 21, 2007, 11:28:47 AM
There is a locked thread there now partially addressing the mysterious disappearances.  She says in the final post that the concerns are going to be addressed.  I didn't know that Joe Monahan resigned.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 11:31:10 AM
Wannabe has started another thread.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=200246
...which is also gone...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 11:32:04 AM
There is a locked thread there now partially addressing the mysterious disappearances.  She says in the final post that the concerns are going to be addressed.  I didn't know that Joe Monahan resigned.


He didn't. He was resigned. Big difference.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 21, 2007, 11:32:19 AM
I wonder if that has something to do with one or more of the five "guests" currently reading this thread (who's ISP's I can see btw)?



And trace...this is fun.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 21, 2007, 11:34:29 AM
Wouldn't it be good if someone had some screenshots of the threads before they were taken down?  ;)
*
If you set your computer to "Work Off Line" and then  look in the cached webpages, you will probably find that your computer has saved them and they can be saved as screen shots.  (I can't do that last bit, my puter is too old!)

BUT if you look in your cached pages WITHOUT going to "Work Off Line" you will loose the cached material since it will try to load the current, and non-existent, page.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 11:36:03 AM
And just to prove it once existed:
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1904/2211070148wq9.png)

DO NOT GO GENTLE INTO THAT GOOD NIGHT


        Do not go gentle into that good night,
        Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
        Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

        Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
        Because their words had forked no lightning they
        Do not go gentle into that good night.

        Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
        Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
        Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

        Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
        And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
        Do not go gentle into that good night.

        Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
        Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
        Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

        And you, my father, there on the sad height,
        Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
        Do not go gentle into that good night.
        Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


Dylan Thomas
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 21, 2007, 11:37:00 AM
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sehrgrosse/large-smiley-001.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 21, 2007, 11:44:40 AM
DO NOT GO GENTLE INTO THAT GOOD NIGHT[/b]

        Do not go gentle into that good night,
        Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
        Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

        Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
        Because their words had forked no lightning they
        Do not go gentle into that good night.

        Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
        Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
        Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

        Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
        And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
        Do not go gentle into that good night.

        Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
        Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
        Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

        And you, my father, there on the sad height,
        Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
        Do not go gentle into that good night.
        Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


Dylan Thomas 

Can you get Rodney Dangerfield to read it for us?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: thechrismyster on November 21, 2007, 11:45:04 AM
a.) i'm on CAF often
b.) no, i am not much of a debater.. if CAF is a banquet of discussion and debate.. i'm the one in the corner, at the desert table eating the scones and discussing what a crooner Dean Martin was, drinking the congac, while the others fight.
c.) my reason for joining here, albeit temporarily...just letting Fr. Ambrose and the others know that i think that banning you and then not having the decency to put it into your profile was just a dumb move on CA's part. while they are a private board and capable of anything, to ban a member who has contributed so much (or in this case, multiple members here) and then run and hide is a rotten, shameful move on their part. I most likely have seen my time there end for this reason.

back to the woodwork. Peace all.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 21, 2007, 11:46:27 AM
Good one OzG...had to save that one myself. I wonder at how many moderator resources they are having to expend now  :laugh:
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 21, 2007, 11:47:56 AM
Can you get Rodney Dangerfield to read it for us?

Fr Chris? Maybe... ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 11:52:33 AM
Good one OzG...had to save that one myself. I wonder at how many moderator resources they are having to expend now  :laugh:

ROFL :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 21, 2007, 11:56:22 AM
Fr Chris? Maybe... ;)

Only if he can do the triple Lindy.

I wonder at how many moderator resources they are having to expend now  :laugh: 

One quote I expected earlier in this thread that applies really well to the CAF mods...

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 21, 2007, 12:00:05 PM
They list 13 Mods

BUT - I wonder just how many they do actually have :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 21, 2007, 12:02:23 PM
a.) i'm on CAF often
b.) no, i am not much of a debater.. if CAF is a banquet of discussion and debate.. i'm the one in the corner, at the desert table eating the scones and discussing what a crooner Dean Martin was, drinking the congac, while the others fight.
c.) my reason for joining here, albeit temporarily...just letting Fr. Ambrose and the others know that i think that banning you and then not having the decency to put it into your profile was just a dumb move on CA's part. while they are a private board and capable of anything, to ban a member who has contributed so much (or in this case, multiple members here) and then run and hide is a rotten, shameful move on their part. I most likely have seen my time there end for this reason.

back to the woodwork. Peace all.
*
Many thanks for your kind words.  It's been quite an exciting hour with the posts on CAF from paradoxy and wannabee.  I don't know if Catherine Grant realises that quite a few people on several fora are now awaiting with interest her promised message on the policy of banning CAF members secretly.   

I guess that what is being challenged is CAF's culture of secrecy and its lack of moderatorial accountability to its members.  I appreciate that it is a private Forum but many members (including me) have responded to its many calls for financial contributions.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 12:40:50 PM
a.) i'm on CAF often
b.) no, i am not much of a debater.. if CAF is a banquet of discussion and debate.. i'm the one in the corner, at the desert table eating the scones and discussing what a crooner Dean Martin was, drinking the congac, while the others fight.
c.) my reason for joining here, albeit temporarily...just letting Fr. Ambrose and the others know that i think that banning you and then not having the decency to put it into your profile was just a dumb move on CA's part. while they are a private board and capable of anything, to ban a member who has contributed so much (or in this case, multiple members here) and then run and hide is a rotten, shameful move on their part. I most likely have seen my time there end for this reason.

back to the woodwork. Peace all.

Very noble.
Thank you "thechrismyster". I take my hat off to you.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: brittrossiter on November 21, 2007, 12:53:22 PM
I made a PDF print of paradoxy's posting at CAF and will gladly share it with anyone who wants a copy.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 01:06:14 PM
I made a PDF print of paradoxy's posting at CAF and will gladly share it with anyone who wants a copy.

Vive la Résistance!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Heracleides on November 21, 2007, 01:07:56 PM
They list 13 Mods

BUT - I wonder just how many they do actually have :)

Perhaps you should strive for consistency and refrain from asking such questions...  ;)

On the Byzantine forum, in relation to this matter, you said:

Quote
Frankly I do not think we should be discussing what CAF have done with some of the members there.

Surely it's an Internal matter and no business of ours ?

Source: Link Disabled

Will everyone please read this thread:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.0.html

Actions not tolerated on this site include:

Quote
3) Posting of links to any webfora. 

Fr. Chris' renowned Irish temper with Greek influences is beginnning to be awakened. It would be best for all involved to review the linked thread on this website.
.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 01:09:37 PM
I made a PDF print of paradoxy's posting at CAF and will gladly share it with anyone who wants a copy.
Can you scan the pages?
You can them load them to a free image server like www.imageshack.us
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 21, 2007, 01:15:47 PM
Perhaps you should strive for consistency and refrain from asking such questions...  ;)

On the Byzantine forum, in relation to this matter, you said:

Source: Link Disabled
.


Agreed - but I had just got so irritated that I really felt I had to say something

And when they started removing my threads on CAF - well that was the last straw

Let's face it - none of us are perfect

[edit] I've gone back and looked at my posts . I have not criticised the bannings on any grounds  other than the way they were made - the fact they were not obvious to any members of CAF . I don't know of any members of CAF in the past who have not been 'labelled ' on their posts which stand ,  as Banned . I have not criticised the reasons for which these posters were banned.

I can understand bannings which are made within a short timespan of a post - but some of these bannings were made a ridiculous length of time from the poster's previous post .

I have bemoaned the loss of many valuable threads and items of information [/edit]
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 01:20:54 PM
Let's face it - none of us are perfect
Except Global Moderators.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 21, 2007, 01:30:06 PM
Oh my! I go to bed and you all form a resistance. Great going paradoxy! Your posts were QUITE valuable to me on CAF, don't discount yourself. I hope to see many more here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 21, 2007, 01:34:11 PM
Except Global Moderators.

Amen!

Oh my! I go to bed and you all form a resistance. Great going paradoxy! Your posts were QUITE valuable to me on CAF, don't discount yourself. I hope to see many more here. 

Y'all keep watching Star Wars and dreaming big... and the Empire will fall!

Seriously, folks, I'm glad you're trying to force them to be honest with their members.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..."
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 02:01:21 PM
My CAF account now says this:

Quote
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

This change will be lifted: Never

Gotta love the style!  ;D

EDIT: to be fair, they now do give a reason - 'publicly discussing moderator actions'

Quinault, thank you so much for your kind words!  :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paradosis on November 21, 2007, 02:22:31 PM
My CAF account now says this:

Gotta love the style!  ;D

Quinault, thank you so much for your kind words!  :)

Sorry to have missed the action.  I was asleep when all this transpired. ;D I admire your action, paradoxy.  I'll miss seeing you on CAF, but the truth did need to get out.  Pray for me and any other Orthodox who are still trying to defend the Faith in the ever-increasing hostile environment of CAF. 

God bless,

Adam 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: brittrossiter on November 21, 2007, 02:27:27 PM
Can you scan the pages?
You can them load them to a free image server like www.imageshack.us
I can try to do that when I return from work today.

We'll see if anyone from CAF is monitoring this - I haven't posted on CAF in ages.  If I get banned, it will be because they're monitoring this forum.   ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 21, 2007, 02:28:42 PM
Never a dull moment at CAF, eh?  :o

I just used their "Contact Us" feature and sent the following:
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Forum Admin folks,

As part of the clearing out of "offending" Orthodox Christians from CAF, my account was permanently locked, with, apparently, no opportunity for appeal.  That is fine--it's your web site and you may obviously do with it what you please.  I understand, however, that you are still showing me and others whose accounts have also been locked as active posters, showing us as junior, regular, senior members or whatever.  Is this not just a little bit disingenuous and intellectually dishonest?  If we have been, in effect banned, why not show us as such?  You could at least indicate that our accounts have been permanently locked and that we are completely unable to participate on your forum except to read posts as "guests".  Would that be problematic?  By showing us as active posters you are completely misleading all your other posters.  Does that not concern you?  Even a little bit?

I very much look forward to hearing from you with your response.

Happy Thanksgiving!

In Christ,
Jeff  ("Ziggernaut")


It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, they say in reply.  I'll let you know.

God Bless, and a Happy and Blessed Thanksgiving to all!
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 02:29:46 PM
Sorry to have missed the action.  I was asleep when all this transpired. ;D I admire your action, paradoxy.  I'll miss seeing you on CAF, but the truth did need to get out.  Pray for me and any other Orthodox who are still trying to defend the Faith in the ever-increasing hostile environment of CAF. 

God bless,

Adam 

You're ForeverAdam? Just keep it up there at CAF! You're doing a great job! I'll pray for you!

Danica
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 21, 2007, 02:30:30 PM
We'll see if anyone from CAF is monitoring this - I haven't posted on CAF in ages.  If I get banned, it will be because they're monitoring this forum.   ;D 

Maybe if they didn't spend time monitoring this thread, they'd have enough "resources" to keep up with the Orthodox members!  :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 21, 2007, 02:37:12 PM
Hello,
Yes, quite a bit. In fact, I'm logged on to both here and there at the same time. But I don't really do any Catholic/Orthodox threads. They're too hard to find, and given where they are located, they are probably infested with Protestants and Muslims, among others.

I am doing quite a bit of posting in regards to Sacred Music right now.

I am banned but I can still read it through a back door but I cant post.
Some of the old RC debaters are reposting old questions knowing they wont get the fight they used to get. Pretty much they are just answering the questions themselves and dancing on our grave.   
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 21, 2007, 02:42:55 PM
One thing that can be done if people really wanted to, is that we could write a statement and post it on a web page. I think aol gives some free space to members or find something similar or cheap.

The folks that have not been banned could then PM or post the address( if they are brave) so folks could read it.

We would get the last word.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 21, 2007, 02:43:11 PM
The new forum is not about Eastern Catholicism at all; instead, it is about Roman Catholics forcing Eastern Catholics to accept Latinized theology.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 21, 2007, 02:47:00 PM
The new forum is not about Eastern Catholicism at all; instead, it is about Roman Catholics forcing Eastern Catholics to accept Latinized theology.

Gee....now there's a surprise! :o ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 21, 2007, 03:11:07 PM
The new forum is not about Eastern Catholicism at all; instead, it is about Roman Catholics forcing Eastern Catholics to accept Latinized theology.

"I will not lie down, I will not go quietly!" Don Henley ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 21, 2007, 03:17:42 PM
Perhaps you should strive for consistency and refrain from asking such questions...  ;)

On the Byzantine forum, in relation to this matter, you said:

Source: Link Disabled
.


Brother Heracleides :Your Good i don;t know how to post a link from there to here...i need your help their ..your education level is way up there...stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 21, 2007, 03:25:47 PM
I made a PDF print of paradoxy's posting at CAF and will gladly share it with anyone who wants a copy.
I'd like to read this. Can you post it or send it to me?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 03:33:18 PM
This is the long-awaited public explanation for the secret bans:

Link Disabled

Quote
The article on the reasons why members are banned has been copied into the thread above by Catherine Grant. All that I can add to it is this:
CAF does not discuss with third parties the cases of individual members out of respect for their privacy. If they wish to make known their case, that is their privilege; we only ask that you keep in mind that there are two sides to every story. Because we choose not to violate privacy, all you likely will hear in such instances is what the member chooses to make public, which likely will be only pieces of the story and only those pieces that reflect well on the individual.
When banning individuals, CAF has a choice: We can give a banned member a tag that makes public that he has been banned; or we can ban him privately so that a public stir is not created and so that he can retain the dignity of appearing to have stopped participating of his own volition. With members of longstanding, CAF staff often choose the latter option. The downside to this is that the member can then make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him, but we feel that the positives often outweigh the negative.
If you have any questions or concerns about specific mod/admin actions, we ask you to please contact a mod privately by PM or write to the administration staff at forumadmin@catholic.com. Although we cannot discuss individual cases with you, we would be happy to explain general protocol.

Is it just me, or is this meant to be even more insulting and infuriating? This reads: Fr Ambrose and other long-standing Orthodox posters have indeed committed serious offenses, but CAF has charitably allowed them to keep up appearances for the sake of their dignity!?

So, Father Ambrose and others, 'fess up: what have you really done to deserve the ban?   ;D  ::)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 21, 2007, 03:33:51 PM
The new forum is not about Eastern Catholicism at all; instead, it is about Roman Catholics forcing Eastern Catholics to accept Latinized theology.

Hear ! Hear !! (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-033.gif)(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-033.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 21, 2007, 03:39:19 PM
Please Note - there is still nothing about the return of all the threads that were archived . Nor was there any indication that  a 2 week gap - when a poster could have posted , was an inappropriate delay before a banning was imposed.

My concerns , that I posted publicly there, about the missing threads and info, was not answered

Quote
The administration will respond to your concerns today. Please do not post any new threads on this topic.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Anastasios on November 21, 2007, 04:10:32 PM
The reason a few links were disabled in posts above was because there is a general policy against linking to other web forums. The reason for this was to keep people from plugging other competing forums which used to happen here a lot. Reading over the threads above, some of these links were clearly for reference purposes and not to advertise. We are sorry if your reference was removed hastily but please do limit posting links to other forums. We also don't want to be a place where people feel free to trash other forums, although we understand the current need of the members from CAF to vent.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 21, 2007, 04:52:09 PM
The reason a few links were disabled in posts above was because there is a general policy against linking to other web forums. The reason for this was to keep people from plugging other competing forums which used to happen here a lot. Reading over the threads above, some of these links were clearly for reference purposes and not to advertise. We are sorry if your reference was removed hastily but please do limit posting links to other forums. We also don't want to be a place where people feel free to trash other forums, although we understand the current need of the members from CAF to vent.

Understood. Sorry, we're new and obviously didn't bother to study those forum rules.  :-[.

Obviously, the only reason we're 'trashing' the other forum here, 'behind their backs', is that we're not physically permitted to discuss this there openly and honestly. I'm clarifying this because I generally feel horrible about talking badly about someone behind their backs (but they turned their backs to us, so it's not like we enjoy gossiping just for the heck of it...) Whatever...  :-\
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 21, 2007, 06:36:02 PM
Hello,

So, Father Ambrose and others, 'fess up: what have you really done to deserve the ban?   ;D  ::)
Father Ambrose (and many others) many times went beyond simple information exchange to the realms that emotions often take us. We were all guilty of it at one time or another - and it is technically against their forum rules. But, that is exactly the type of dialogue that formed us into a type of family. No family is without is arguments and quarrels, but we all respected each other.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Anastasios on November 21, 2007, 07:29:23 PM
Understood. Sorry, we're new and obviously didn't bother to study those forum rules.  :-[.

Obviously, the only reason we're 'trashing' the other forum here, 'behind their backs', is that we're not physically permitted to discuss this there openly and honestly. I'm clarifying this because I generally feel horrible about talking badly about someone behind their backs (but they turned their backs to us, so it's not like we enjoy gossiping just for the heck of it...) Whatever...  :-\

Well like I said, we understand your feelings. I myself and a few other posters were once banned from a similar (although much smaller) Catholic forum once, without at least in my case my having broken any rules. That made me quite sad.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 21, 2007, 07:31:41 PM
Father Ambrose ....... many times went beyond simple information exchange to the realms that emotions often take us.
*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.(http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 21, 2007, 07:49:23 PM
*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.(http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)

Father;
I wish i knew more orthodoxTheology and the Holy Fathers ,i would give them a good run for there money , the R C.at the byzatine forum......at least our eastern catholic brothers/and sisters know about the injustice......stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 21, 2007, 07:53:57 PM
Hello,

*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.(http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)

I guess I used you particularly to describe generally. I'm sorry if I mischaracterized you. Of course, sometimes others may take posts to mean something they aren't intended to mean (i.e., curt comment as an all-out assault). You must admit that a wide assortment of smilies can help to ease such situations.  ;D

P.S. - what do you mean "final theosis" is NOT the Orthodox equivalent of Purgatory.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 21, 2007, 08:43:21 PM
Father Ambrose ... many times went beyond simple information exchange...

Do you really think, Athanasios, that "simple information exchange" is even desirable, when the salvation of souls is at stake?  Have you ever read an anathema?  Does it sound at all like a "simple information exchange"???

Arsenios

ps - Final Theosis is not an Orthodox term...

It is an oxymoron used by an RC poster on CAF...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 21, 2007, 09:43:44 PM
. . . what do you mean "final theosis" is NOT the Orthodox equivalent of Purgatory.  ;D ;D ;D
Theosis is a never ending process, i.e., it is an eternal stretching (epektasis) into God
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 09:47:39 PM
Theosis is a never ending process, i.e., it is an eternal stretching (epektasis) into God

Guys,
Please keep this thread on topic.
George
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 21, 2007, 09:57:11 PM
In a way my comment is on topic, because theological clarifications of this kind are why CAF has barred Eastern Orthodox (and some Eastern Catholics) from posting.   ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papa Gregorio on November 21, 2007, 09:58:57 PM
Fr. Ambrose, in solidarity with you I am cancelling my CAF account with this public notice that expresses my sentiments:

Following what is now a discernibly concerted effort to muster up any excuse possible to purge this Forum of the most educated yet charitable and benevolent Orthodox Catholic critics of Roman Catholicism - the latest incident being the banning of Fr. Ambrose - deemed as "thorns in the side" of administrators who are keen on leaving as little trace as possible of their shamefully repressive actions, I am canceling my account as a mark of protest, no longer willing to associate with an entity showing itself to be hostile to the principles of free and open discussion to which both Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches are committed in their ecumenical endeavours for rapprochement. It is difficult to comprehend the motives behind the most recent addition to the growing list of banned Orthodox participants, however all of us know that Fr. Ambrose never showed the least sign of unruliness, always adhered to forum rules and engaged his critics with charity and honesty. It is no coincidence, I believe, that a change in direction to reflect the more pervasive authoritarian nature of the Roman Catholic lay internet apologetics movement necessitated the departure of the esteemed former moderator of the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum, under whom vigorous dialogue and civil criticism was always tolerated, in order that these severe actions could be exercised. "Catholic Answers", in addition to presenting misleading, incorrect and unhistorical information on the Orthodox Church and Church History in their tracts, cannot be considered a helpful agent in this process of dialogue and rapprochement.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 21, 2007, 10:25:08 PM
Fr. Ambrose, in solidarity with you I am cancelling my CAF account with this public notice that expresses my sentiments:

Following what is now a discernibly concerted effort to muster up any excuse possible to purge this Forum of the most educated yet charitable and benevolent Orthodox Catholic critics of Roman Catholicism - the latest incident being the banning of Fr. Ambrose - deemed as "thorns in the side" of administrators who are keen on leaving as little trace as possible of their shamefully repressive actions, I am canceling my account as a mark of protest, no longer willing to associate with an entity showing itself to be hostile to the principles of free and open discussion to which both Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches are committed in their ecumenical endeavours for rapprochement. It is difficult to comprehend the motives behind the most recent addition to the growing list of banned Orthodox participants, however all of us know that Fr. Ambrose never showed the least sign of unruliness, always adhered to forum rules and engaged his critics with charity and honesty. It is no coincidence, I believe, that a change in direction to reflect the more pervasive authoritarian nature of the Roman Catholic lay internet apologetics movement necessitated the departure of the esteemed former moderator of the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum, under whom vigorous dialogue and civil criticism was always tolerated, in order that these severe actions could be exercised. "Catholic Answers", in addition to presenting misleading, incorrect and unhistorical information on the Orthodox Church and Church History in their tracts, cannot be considered a helpful agent in this process of dialogue and rapprochement.
They still don't get it!
One response to your post reads:
"I just checked the Member List and I show he is not banned as you say he was.
__________________
I think you
need glasses" (http://"I just checked the Member List and I show he is not banned as you say he was.
__________________
I think you
need glasses")
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 21, 2007, 10:46:14 PM
I think some people at CAF are in denial.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 21, 2007, 11:30:38 PM
*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.(http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)


I was under the impression that this unnamed individual held that those in heaven were experiencing the final theosis, which is not possible since theosis nevers ends...nevermind that--It is rediculous what happened on CAF!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 21, 2007, 11:33:50 PM
I think some people at CAF are in denial.

Kind of like those who deny the Holocaust? :-\ :'( :o
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 22, 2007, 12:49:36 AM
Kind of like those who deny the Holocaust? :-\ :'( :o

Come now! Surely you are not suggesting that this is exactly like the Nazis who got rid of people and then attempted to destroy any evidence of their crime? ;)

Well, surprise surprise! CAF has taken down Papa Gregorio's post as well.
Here are some snapshots for old time's sake:

(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9529/papagreggc9.png)

(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8059/papagreg2nc1.png)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jetavan on November 22, 2007, 01:03:23 AM
Come now! Surely you are not suggesting that this is exactly like the Nazis who got rid of people and then attempted to destroy any evidence of their crime? ;)

Well, surprise surprise! CAF has taken down Papa Gregorio's post as well.
Here are some snapshots for old time's sake:

Wait, I was just reading Papa Gregorio's post a few hours ago!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 22, 2007, 01:18:50 AM
Wait, I was just reading Papa Gregorio's post a few hours ago!
Check the Eastern Catholic Forum, 'taint there no more...... nor are any of the 6 responses to it (the top of the first one is visible in the second photo).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 22, 2007, 01:29:54 AM
EDIT: to be fair, they now do give a reason - 'publicly discussing moderator actions'

Hey, I didn't know infallibility extended to moderators!
I wonder how I can use my own "Divine Right of Moderators" to remove threads, lock people out of the forum, and then ban anyone who dares question me? :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 22, 2007, 02:22:40 AM
I haven't read any posts from brother bogoljub over there for about a day or two ..i wonder did they .........stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 22, 2007, 02:36:25 AM
I haven't read any posts from brother bogoljub over there for about a day or two ..i wonder did they .........stashko

Did they what? Make him disappear? ;) Soon his posts will be sleepin' with the fishes...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 05:39:59 AM
Quote
When banning individuals, CAF has a choice: We can give a banned member a tag that makes public that he has been banned; or we can ban him privately so that a public stir is not created and so that he can retain the dignity of appearing to have stopped participating of his own volition. With members of longstanding, CAF staff often choose the latter option. The downside to this is that the member can then make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him, but we feel that the positives often outweigh the negative.
*

In order that I resist the temptation to "make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him"  would someone please inform the CAF staf that I wish to have "Banned" under my name.

CAF is simply playing dishonest games with me and the others (about 11 members) who have been secretly banned.    I have been alarmed to see posts which imply that maybe we are not banned at all and are just trying to make CAF look bad.  To protect herself and to allow the blame to fall on those who are banned Catherine Grant is dishonestly concealing our true status.

So, if anyone is in touch with CAF staff please tell them that that I encourage them to have the courage of publicly sharing their decision to ban us forever and that we desire to see the word Banned shown under our names.

Let CAF stop being deceptive, stop issuing vacuous statements of self-justification  and let them tell the truth.  Is that too much to ask?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 22, 2007, 05:47:48 AM
*

In order that I resist the temptation to "make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him"  would someone please inform the CAF staf that I wish to have "Banned" under my name.

CAF is simply playing dishonest games with me and the others (about 11 members) who have been secretly banned.    I have been alarmed to see posts which imply that maybe we are not banned at all and are just trying to make CAF look bad.  To protect herself and to allow the blame to fall on those who are banned Catherine Grant is dishonestly concealing our true status.

So, if anyone is in touch with CAF staff please tell them that that I encourage them to have the courage of publicly sharing their decision to ban us forever and that we desire to see the word Banned shown under our names.

Let CAF stop being deceptive, stop issuing vacuous statements of self-justification  and let them tell the truth.  Is that too much to ask?


Father Ambrose ; Were are our names,,i don't see them anywhere  ,,, where does one look for them .... stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 05:55:34 AM
Father Ambrose ; Were are our names,,i don't see them anywhere  ,,, where does one look for them .... stashko
Our names and status are shown at the top left of our messages, and in our Profiles.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 22, 2007, 06:03:27 AM
(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5538/screenshotcatholicansweid5.th.png) (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotcatholicansweid5.png)

Not a big deal. Yet, for the sake of facts, I never requested my account to be suspended.

That's how ecumenical talks with some RC end.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 22, 2007, 06:05:50 AM
Did they what? Make him disappear? ;) Soon his posts will be sleepin' with the fishes...


God only knows and bogoljub unless he appears here and tells us he's been banned...stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 22, 2007, 06:09:12 AM
(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5538/screenshotcatholicansweid5.th.png) (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotcatholicansweid5.png)

Not a big deal. Yet, for the sake of facts, I never requested my account to be suspended.

That's how ecumenical talks with some RC end.

If so, then this goes beyond "not telling the truth" and becomes just plain old lying.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 22, 2007, 06:09:55 AM
Our names and status are shown at the top left of our messages, and in our Profiles.

How does one access his profile if you can't log in stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 06:10:55 AM
I think you
need glasses"]"I just checked the Member List and I show he is not banned as you say he was.
This shows that Catherine Grant's policy of "trying to protect our dignity" by not showing us as banned is having the opposite effect.

Our reputation is being damaged by her dishonest concealment of our true status.

Because we are still shown as active members, other members do not know we are banned and I have seen messages on CAF accusing us of

1.  lying about our status
2.  "punishing" other members by refusing to participate
3.  sulking
4.  trying to make CAF look bad.

An honest and open "Banned" under our names would do more to restore our dignity than Catherine Grant's present policy of concealment which is having the opposite effect.

Tell the truth, Catherine, and shame the devil.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 06:26:55 AM
How does one access his profile if you can't log in stashko
*
Find one of your old posts and click on your name at the top left.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 22, 2007, 09:31:12 AM
Papa Gregorio, reading your last post on CAF was a treat! Pity they don't want to believe it...

Orthodoxlurker, I can't believe they did that! This sure goes from 'mental reservation' and merely implying untruth to outright lying.

Father Ambrose, is 'athair ambrois' secretly banned too? Just a thought. Perhaps you could tell them 'in person' you'd like to be openly banned.

You do all realize, of course - and they must realize it as well - that we could all easily re-register under new names every time we get banned and post the truth about what happened every hour or so. That would cause more of a 'public stir' than openly banning unwanted members. I'm not saying this is a decent thing to do, of course - just pointing out how easily it could be done and how silly this whole cover-up operation seems in light of that.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 09:41:45 AM
Father Ambrose, is 'athair ambrois' secretly banned too? Just a thought. Perhaps you could tell them 'in person' you'd like to be openly banned.
Just attempted to sign in as athair ambrois and this is what happened......

____________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

This change will be lifted: Never
____________________________
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 09:46:19 AM
You do all realize, of course - and they must realize it as well - that we could all easily re-register under new names every time we get banned and post the truth about what happened every hour or so.
Received this via a friend...

I was talking to a friend about you getting back on Catholic Forums. He said:

Go to the link that I am providing you below, download the ' Hide-your-ip' software. (don't click on the one that says ' buy it' just click on upper right hand where it says ' download'.  It is for free. Once you download it  install it into your pc, and when you activate it it will change your ip add so as Catholic forums cannot keep you off.

http://www.hide-my-ip.com/

*
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 22, 2007, 09:51:03 AM
Just attempted to sign in as athair ambrois and this is what happened......

____________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

This change will be lifted: Never
____________________________


They're thorough...  ::)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 22, 2007, 09:51:28 AM
ooooooh sneaky (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-011.gif)

Does anyone know if they are actually banning by IP or have managed to link folks alter egos ?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 22, 2007, 09:56:24 AM
Just attempted to sign in as athair ambrois and this is what happened......

____________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

This change will be lifted: Never
____________________________


How's that for free, frank and honest discussion. ::)

Even under the Patriot Act, you get some semblance of a trial.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 09:59:22 AM
You do all realize, of course - and they must realize it as well - that we could all easily re-register under new names every time we get banned and post the truth about what happened every hour or so.
*
Just followed up on your suggestion.

"Since I am Banned Please Show me as Banned"
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=2998437#post2998437

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 22, 2007, 10:06:47 AM
*
Just followed up on your suggestion.

"Since I am Banned Please Show me as Banned"
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=2998437#post2998437



I have a slava dinner to attend in a couple of hours!

Oh well, I guess we'll have to be late, as I'll have to see what happens now!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 22, 2007, 10:09:25 AM
Orthodoxlurker, I can't believe they did that! This sure goes from 'mental reservation' and merely implying untruth to outright lying.
Well, sis, "if the goat is lying, teh horn isnt lying", isn't it? (This one could become as famous as "don't mix grandmothers and frogs" in lieu of "don't mix apples and oranges", but I'll hardly become FM any time soon :D )  That's why I posted the snapshoot.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 22, 2007, 10:13:57 AM
Well, sis, "if the goat is lying, teh horn isnt lying", isn't it? (This one could become as famous as "don't mix grandmothers and frogs" in lieu of "don't mix apples and oranges", but I'll hardly become FM any time soon :D )  That's why I posted the snapshoot.



ROTFL!  :laugh:
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 22, 2007, 10:20:44 AM
I've seen it - and have screen shot too :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 22, 2007, 10:38:13 AM
here you are I hope

 (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/Users/angelataylor/Desktop/Fr Ambrose 1.1.jpg)




OK - someone tell  me how to do it please
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 22, 2007, 10:44:32 AM
I like your response :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 22, 2007, 10:46:34 AM

MODERATION:
Guys,
Please read Fr. Chris' moderation earlier in this thread:

Source: Link Disabled

Will everyone please read this thread:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.0.html

Actions not tolerated on this site include:
Quote
3) Posting of links to any webfora. 

Fr. Chris' renowned Irish temper with Greek influences is beginnning to be awakened. It would be best for all involved to review the linked thread on this website.
.

This means that you cannot post links to other fora (correct plural of "forum"!).
There may be a way around this.
If you remove the "http://www." from the front of the address you are referring to, it disables the link. Those reading then have to copy and paste it into their browser address bar and add the "www." and/or "http://" at the beginning.
Could you please do so while I check with Fr. Chris if this is acceptable.
Thanks,

George
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 10:58:11 AM
I like your response :)
*
I see the number of readers of the message has jumped up to 136.  At least people are learning the truth about the secret bannings.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 22, 2007, 11:01:32 AM
*
I see the number of readers of the message has jumped up to 136.  At least people are learning the truth about the secret bannings.

Bless, Father!

I've just seen this, too! Just everyone note, if replying to this topic, that Crumpy changed the title - so re-type the original one, please.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 22, 2007, 11:02:42 AM
MODERATION:
Guys,
One more thing.
This thread is probably going to use a lot of images.
Try to avoid uploading the image by attaching it to your post, as this uses up our bandwidth. Instead, what you can do is upload your image to a free image hosting site like www.imageshack.us and then linking to your image by adding the direct link to the image in your post thus:
[img]http://www.imagehoster.com/myimage.jpg[/img]

George
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 11:11:23 AM
Please read Fr. Chris' moderation earlier in this thread:
Apologies.  I saw a post which said something about allowing links in this particular thread and restoring ones that the Mod had deleted, or maybe it was only about discussing whether we could show links in this thread?

Quote
If you remove the "http://www." from the front of the address you are referring to, it disables the link. Those reading then have to copy and paste it into their browser address bar and add the "www." and/or "http://" at the beginning.
Could you please do so while I check with Fr. Chris if this is acceptable.
Just went to do so, but you beat me to it. Thanks.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 22, 2007, 11:19:59 AM
Father , Bless

Your thread continues to grow :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 22, 2007, 11:31:23 AM
Father , Bless

Your thread continues to grow :)

...and now it's gone...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 11:43:52 AM
...and now it's gone...
*
Alas.

But now I can go to bed and you can go to the Slava.   :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 12:07:15 PM
New thread started by Cascherman in Staff Chat

What is happening to our Orthodox Members?
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=2998544#post2998544
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 22, 2007, 12:20:07 PM
"But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him...."
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Heracleides on November 22, 2007, 01:00:03 PM
I just checked CAF and see that I have a nice, clear, and concise Banned beneath my single post which hasn't vanished (yet).

I am now feeling very special.  ;D

You others just didn't try hard enough.  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 22, 2007, 01:02:09 PM
New thread started by Cascherman in Staff Chat

What is happening to our Orthodox Members?
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=2998544#post2998544

If Cascherman keeps insisting on knowing why we are not there, he may find himself on the outside looking in.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 22, 2007, 01:44:26 PM
Update

For those who can get there - there is a new locked thread :(

for those that can't
<<I want to have a peaceful Thanksgiving with my family.

If you have questions or concerns about the changes in the Eastern Catholicism board, about the response to changes in the Eastern Catholicism board, about the posting privileges of people who were active on the Eastern Christianity board, or about any other moderator or administrator actions in any way related to the Eastern Christianity or Eastern Catholicism boards, then you may direct them to the moderators or administrators by phone, email, or PM.

Any member who publicly posts on the issue again will be banned.

I regret that this decision is necessary and I welcome personal messages with questions or concerns. This public barrage is in violation of several of our forum rules and is now done.>>

I make no comment

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 22, 2007, 03:07:17 PM
(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5538/screenshotcatholicansweid5.th.png) (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotcatholicansweid5.png)

Not a big deal. Yet, for the sake of facts, I never requested my account to be suspended.

That's how ecumenical talks with some RC end.
So they "resigned" you on their own?

Side note: nice OS choice  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 22, 2007, 03:39:23 PM
Happy Thanksgiving  to every body......Brother Stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papa Gregorio on November 22, 2007, 06:40:29 PM
Just attempted to sign in as athair ambrois and this is what happened......

____________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

This change will be lifted: Never
____________________________


I think the tactics they've adopted have been inspired by "the Godfather" - you all remember the part in the movie where Michael Corleone bumps off all his enemies in one fell swoop. I can just picture CAF staff and sympathisers gathering around Catherine Grant to kiss her hand in gratitude.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 22, 2007, 07:40:52 PM
Quote
I think the tactics they've adopted have been inspired by "the Godfather" - you all remember the part in the movie where Michael Corleone bumps off all his enemies in one fell swoop. I can just picture CAF staff and sympathisers gathering around Catherine Grant to kiss her hand in gratitude.

At first, I was inclined to sympathize with the Orthodox following the recent moves, but many posts, including this one, have caused me to have doubts about whether the moderators have acted unfairly.

If you can't realise that the moderators are, at the end of the day, only people, who are trying to grow closer to God and His Son, and can only mock them from a distance, it only confirms their actions against you.

In Jesus Christ,
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 07:56:26 PM
At first, I was inclined to sympathize with the Orthodox following the recent moves, but many posts, including this one, have caused me to have doubts about whether the moderators have acted unfairly.
*
Hello Magic,

Eight of the roughly eleven secretly banned members want to have theit status shown correctly.  It is duplicitous of the CAF Admin to show us as active members when they have banned us.

I am lobbying them on CAF to "do the right thing" and show our status truthfully.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papa Gregorio on November 22, 2007, 08:07:39 PM
At first, I was inclined to sympathize with the Orthodox following the recent moves, but many posts, including this one, have caused me to have doubts about whether the moderators have acted unfairly.

If you can't realise that the moderators are, at the end of the day, only people, who are trying to grow closer to God and His Son, and can only mock them from a distance, it only confirms their actions against you.

In Jesus Christ,

Oh come on brother, don't be so sensitive, it's just a little humour.  :laugh: Are you touchy because England failed to qualify for Euro2008?  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 08:25:12 PM
I am lobbying them on CAF to "do the right thing" and show our status truthfully.
*
Dear Magic,

I just signed up to CAF and sent them another message asking for some honesty.  You probably did not see it since it was there for only about 20 minutes, but viewed by 35 people.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wishing all a Happy Thanksgiving!

Dear Catherine,

We who are secretly banned by the Admin ask that you do the honest thing and show us with a "Banned" tag. We think it is not at all honest that you show us as active members when we are not. And you are damaging our reputation.

Thank you.

Fr Ambrose
________________________________
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: BigFatGreekDaddy on November 22, 2007, 10:10:50 PM
*
Dear Magic,

I just signed up to CAF and sent them another message asking for some honesty.  You probably did not see it since it was there for only about 20 minutes, but viewed by 35 people.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wishing all a Happy Thanksgiving!

Dear Catherine,

We who are secretly banned by the Admin ask that you do the honest thing and show us with a "Banned" tag. We think it is not at all honest that you show us as active members when we are not. And you are damaging our reputation.

Thank you.

Fr Ambrose
________________________________


I do hope that I am included in th category of being listed as banned.
My offense was minimal, but more than what most people who are here did.

I at least questioned the morality issue of forcing Orthodox to not refer to themselves as catholics.
Not that this should have been a bannable offense, but whatever....

Please consider me on the long list of Orthodox martyred on the CAF  :laugh:

icxc.nika

AKA bigfatgreekdaddy
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 22, 2007, 10:13:07 PM
*
Hello Magic,

Eight of the roughly eleven secretly banned members want to have theit status shown correctly.  It is duplicitous of the CAF Admin to show us as active members when they have banned us.

I am lobbying them on CAF to "do the right thing" and show our status truthfully.

Make that nine secretly banned member want the have their status shown correctly. Please add my name. I was there only a few months but I never got a single warning or explaination.   
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 10:18:17 PM
At first, I was inclined to sympathize with the Orthodox following the recent moves, but many posts, including this one, have caused me to have doubts about whether the moderators have acted unfairly.

If you can't realise that the moderators are, at the end of the day, only people, who are trying to grow closer to God and His Son, and can only mock them from a distance, it only confirms their actions against you.
Magic,

I have to say that it is developing  more and more of a Gestapo-KGB atmosphere on CAF.

Have you seen the new requirement from the Mods that even private PMs must be reported to them if they break any Forum Rules, such as discussing Moderator decisions.   This is extending their moderatorial powers even into the realm of free speech between private individuals.  Can that be done legally in America? 

Quote
The Signature of Moderator Patrick Eastin.  If you cannot find a message from him, look at his Profile:

"Private Messages are posts too.
If you receive a PM that violates the Forum Rules or Banned Topics, please forward it to the forum Mod and it will be dealt with."
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 22, 2007, 10:49:39 PM
I think a statement from us should be written, perahaps in reply to the long statement they produced. They cant stop word of it being spread by PM's if the person doesnt care if he is banned afterwards. And I know they are reading this but it really matters not.

Btw, shame on you.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 22, 2007, 11:06:37 PM
I don't think you have the protection of free speech in a private environment such as a privately owned forum.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 22, 2007, 11:24:23 PM
I don't think you have the protection of free speech in a private environment such as a privately owned forum.
Must be an American thing?

Here, private environments (such as telephone communications operated by the privately owned organisations, etc.) are protected.

Basically you are saying that what CAF decribes to its members as "private messages" are not in fact private and the Admin have the right to ask members to report other members' private messages?   It smacks of the old Soviet Union and its system of spying and reporting on one another.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 23, 2007, 12:57:16 AM
Happy Thanksgiving  to every body......Brother Stashko

To you too...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 23, 2007, 12:58:03 AM
Update

For those who can get there - there is a new locked thread :(

for those that can't
<<I want to have a peaceful Thanksgiving with my family.

If you have questions or concerns about the changes in the Eastern Catholicism board, about the response to changes in the Eastern Catholicism board, about the posting privileges of people who were active on the Eastern Christianity board, or about any other moderator or administrator actions in any way related to the Eastern Christianity or Eastern Catholicism boards, then you may direct them to the moderators or administrators by phone, email, or PM.

Any member who publicly posts on the issue again will be banned.

I regret that this decision is necessary and I welcome personal messages with questions or concerns. This public barrage is in violation of several of our forum rules and is now done.>>

I make no comment



Yes, I saw this earlier today :o
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Specs on November 23, 2007, 02:53:28 AM
Magic,

I have to say that it is developing  more and more of a Gestapo-KGB atmosphere on CAF.

Have you seen the new requirement from the Mods that even private PMs must be reported to them if they break any Forum Rules, such as discussing Moderator decisions.   This is extending their moderatorial powers even into the realm of free speech between private individuals.  Can that be done legally in America? 


I think this sig was actually in response to the spate of spam that hit them...some a bit pornographic in nature and the rest asking for help to transfer money, and so forth.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 23, 2007, 04:11:15 AM
I think this sig was actually in response to the spate of spam that hit them...some a bit pornographic in nature and the rest asking for help to transfer money, and so forth.

In fairness to them, I'd agree with that assessment.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 23, 2007, 04:13:32 AM
I think this sig was actually in response to the spate of spam that hit them...some a bit pornographic in nature and the rest asking for help to transfer money, and so forth.
*
If that is so they should be specific about it.  As it stands they are asking members to report on other members' PMs for infractions of the "Rules or Banned Topics" and banned topics include discussions and criticisms of moderators and their activities and decisions.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 23, 2007, 04:28:45 AM
ooooooh sneaky (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-011.gif)

Does anyone know if they are actually banning by IP or have managed to link folks alter egos ?

Most fora don't bother doing IP bans initially, except when it's a spammer, porn poster, etc - but will do so if they suspect a bannee is likely to try and circumvent a ban by re-registering or will do it once that happens. As to using proxiy servers, such as "hide-my-IP", the IP ranges for a lot of those are routinely banned because they've been encountered/identified previously.

The ability to link alter egos is dependent on a lot of things (the alter egos of long-time, heavy-duty posters like Father are almost certainly known, especially since he never made any effort to hide it) - the time someone is willing to devote, the tools used (e-mail matches, IP matches, profile clues, etc), the ability to match up stylisms, or - in the case of most of those banned in this case - the obvious topic. Truth be told, circumventors are generally seen as nusciances and chasing them down can become an end in itself. Keep in mind, though, that the nusciance factor lends itself to being manipulated by the powers-that-be, giving them something at which to point and say "see, they're disruptive, they have no respect, they think the rules don't apply to them - we told you he/she/they were bad people" 

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 23, 2007, 05:46:35 AM
Dear Neil,

As a long time and experienced CAFite what is your opinion?

Will our lobbying to have our status shown accurately be effective or will the CAF staff continue (not to beat around the bush) to lie about our banned status and show us as active members?  In doing so they are deceiving their own members and the results are that the members form negative opinions about the bannees.

I have to say that my appreciation for Catholic adherence to truth has plummeted as a result of the CAF Admin's actions, and while I am well aware that they do not represent Catholics as a whole, this affair is leaving a nasty taste in my mouth.(http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon13.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 23, 2007, 06:15:02 AM
Dear Neil,

As a long time and experienced CAFite what is your opinion?

Will our lobbying to have our status shown accurately be effective or will the CAF staff continue (not to beat around the bush) to lie about our banned status and show us as active members?  In doing so they are deceiving their own members and the results are that the members form negative opinions about the bannees.

I have to say that my appreciation for Catholic adherence to truth has plummeted as a result of the CAF Admin's actions, and while I am well aware that they do not represent Catholics as a whole, this affair is leaving a nasty taste in my mouth.(http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon13.gif)

Bless Father,

They are unlikely to make any changes. Intransigence is rampant there.

You may recollect our early shared experience there, when we both took exception to Karl Keating's statement that the Holy Fire was the product of a Zippo lighter - a thread that fast disappeared when many took umbrage to his statement. As I recollect, no retraction, apology, etc was forthcoming; rather. the elder Irish-Serb-Russian-Kiwi hieromonk and the only slightly younger Irish-Melkite-Bostonian both got the boot for a period of about 30 days each for pursuing the issue - technically, I think, for "questionning moderator action on the open fora"  :o

Despite reasoned explanations as to why "Divine Liturgy" should be capitalized (as is "Mass") by CAF apologists in their responses to queries posted in the Ask An Apologist forum, the mind-boggling reply was some blither about the necessity to capitalize "Mass" - the liturgical celebration - to distinguish it from "mass", a distinction not required for the "divine liturgy", which only merited capitalization when referencing a particular Divine Liturgy, such as that of Saint John Chrysostom. (I do believe that I still have a 3 year old PM from Keating himself, acknowledging that as a poor decision - but a recent AAA post by Michelle Arnold still reflects a lack of capitalization).

And I believe that you and I previously discussed, in the open fora there, the erroneous statement on one of the site's library pages that the EP and the Pope concelebrated at St Peter's - an error that I (and I believe also you) called to their attention via PM, receiving assurance that it would be corrected. Last I looked, not long ago, the misinformation was still there - and it's been a long time (couple of years) since the exchange.

Not much changes there - there is a presumed level of infallibility associated with the place. We said it, so it must be right; if not, pretend.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 23, 2007, 07:09:53 AM
And I believe that you and I previously discussed, in the open fora there, the erroneous statement on one of the site's library pages that the EP and the Pope concelebrated at St Peter's - an error that I (and I believe also you) called to their attention via PM, receiving assurance that it would be corrected. Last I looked, not long ago, the misinformation was still there - and it's been a long time (couple of years) since the exchange.
Still there...

" ...and in 1995, Pope John Paul II and Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople concelebrated the Eucharist together."

Reference: Eastern Orthodoxy
catholic.com/library/eastern_orthodoxy.asp

One wonders at the level of knowledge of the authors of these articles.  Anybody with even a limited knowledge of the East would know that the sky would have fallen in if the Patriarch concelebrated the Eucharist with the Pope.  He would have been repudiated by 99% of the Orthodox world and the monks of Athos would have written 12 tomes anathematizing him.

PS to our Mod:  I still haven't grasped the rules about links.  On CAF it was always expected that we would back up a statement like the above with a relevant link.  Is that OK here?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 23, 2007, 07:29:20 AM
PS to our Mod:  I still haven't grasped the rules about links.  On CAF it was always expected that we would back up a statement like the above with a relevant link.  Is that OK here?
It's links to forums which are problematic. See http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.msg186146.html#msg186146 especially No.3.
Since the direct link you provided links to Catholic Answers which has a forum, it starts getting a bit "iffy", so I suggest you disable your link as I have described earlier. This is a temporary solution I've come up with, and I'm still discussing with Fr. Chris to determine whether this disabling of links is acceptable. As you can appreciate, our American friends are currently celebrating Thanksgiving, so I don't expect an answer soon!

But I have a more important question for you Fr. Ambrose:
Do you play chess?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 23, 2007, 07:55:08 AM
At first, I was inclined to sympathize with the Orthodox following the recent moves, but many posts, including this one, have caused me to have doubts about whether the moderators have acted unfairly.

If you can't realise that the moderators are, at the end of the day, only people, who are trying to grow closer to God and His Son, and can only mock them from a distance, it only confirms their actions against you.

In Jesus Christ,

Dear Magicsilence,  :)

Thank you for the reminder. We shouldn't forget to pray for all involved and not take any of this personally, while speaking up against what we see as unjust, uncalled-for and... well... sneaky actions.

I wish we weren't gossiping from a distance. I wish we were given a chance to publicly, openly and honestly discuss this with CAF mods. But we are unable to.

And, FWIW, I can only see Papa Gregorio's post as innocently jocular.

God bless you!  :) 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: prodromos on November 23, 2007, 08:03:33 AM
Bless Father,

They are unlikely to make any changes. Intransigence is rampant there.

You may recollect our early shared experience there, when we both took exception to Karl Keating's statement that the Holy Fire was the product of a Zippo lighter - a thread that fast disappeared when many took umbrage to his statement. As I recollect, no retraction, apology, etc was forthcoming; rather. the elder Irish-Serb-Russian-Kiwi hieromonk and the only slightly younger Irish-Melkite-Bostonian both got the boot for a period of about 30 days each for pursuing the issue - technically, I think, for "questionning moderator action on the open fora"  :o
I remember responding to Mr Keating's post in a manner which would have allowed him to retract without losing face. Instead the thread disappeared, though he did off handedly admit to not being infallible before that happened in response to another Catholic poster's apparent belief in his inability to post anything incorrect.  :laugh:
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 23, 2007, 08:20:23 AM
But I have a more important question for you Fr. Ambrose:
Do you play chess?
Forbidden, as a great wickedness, by canons of both the Greek and Russian Churches.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 23, 2007, 09:15:00 AM
Forbidden, as a great wickedness, by canons of both the Greek and Russian Churches.
LOL :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 23, 2007, 09:21:49 AM
I remember responding to Mr Keating's post in a manner which would have allowed him to retract without losing face. Instead the thread disappeared, though he did off handedly admit to not being infallible before that happened in response to another Catholic poster's apparent belief in his inability to post anything incorrect.  :laugh:

rotfl - I remember that John
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 23, 2007, 11:48:14 AM
If you can't realise that the moderators are, at the end of the day, only people, who are trying to grow closer to God and His Son, and can only mock them from a distance, it only confirms their actions against you.
One does not grow closer to God by being dishonest.  Those who are banned should be marked as such.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 23, 2007, 04:48:05 PM
One does not grow closer to God by being dishonest.  Those who are banned should be marked as such.

I at least rechly deserved banning, but was only "suspended" with a fixed and specific and guaranteed time named for the lifting of that suspension:

"NEVER"

And my claim for the banning award was my penchant, after trouncing some RC inanity, for using the triumphal expression, at the end of my postings, which said:

Quid...
Erat...
Splat...

Which is certainly a less than completely charitable closure to a post of refutation...

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 23, 2007, 04:54:56 PM
I at least rechly deserved banning, but was only "suspended" with a fixed and specific and guaranteed time named for the lifting of that suspension:

"NEVER"

And my claim for the banning award was my penchant, after trouncing some RC inanity, for using the triumphal expression, at the end of my postings, which said:

Quid...
Erat...
Splat...

Which is certainly a less than completely charitable closure to a post of refutation...

Arsenios

I was banned after an RCC poster baited me by saying "You arent questioning the motives of the moderators, are you?"

I had to answer yes ...as a point of honor.
--------------
"If you dont surrender and put down your weapons, our arrows will block out the sun !"

"Good...................Then we shall fight in the shade"

Leonides,
King of the Spartans
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 23, 2007, 04:57:08 PM
Quote from: Magicsilence

If you can't realize that the moderators are,
at the end of the day, only people,
who are trying to grow closer to God and His Son,
and can only mock them from a distance,
it only confirms their actions against you.


So MS, are you one of those making this same accusation, except on its flip side, against the Orthodox for their FAILURE TO POST on the new Eastern Forum in defense of themselves???

I mean, exactly where would you like us to draw attention to the dark and evil deeds being committed on CAF, such that we can HELP the evildoers draw closer to God, and NOT confirm their evil actions against us???

I mean, have YOU admonished them to be truthful and open, and thus repent from their ways?

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 23, 2007, 05:07:32 PM
--------------
"If you dont surrender and put down your weapons, our arrows will block out the sun !"

"Good...................Then we shall fight in the shade"

Leonides,
King of the Spartans

The Spartans had great quotes...  When Athens had them surrounded, out manned, and blocaded with ships, and were demanding their surrender, or be invaded, the Athenians said to them: "And when we invade, because or your obstinence in your failure to surrender, if we prevail, we will kill every last man of you over the age of 10, and we will enslave and sell to the barbarians all your women and children and old people, and utterly destroy your towns and cities...

And the spartan commander answered with one word:

"EI"

[IF]

And Athens invaded, and lost the war...

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 23, 2007, 05:58:35 PM
So MS, are you one of those making this same accusation, except on its flip side, against the Orthodox for their FAILURE TO POST on the new Eastern Forum in defense of themselves???

No.

Quote
I mean, exactly where would you like us to draw attention to the dark and evil deeds being committed on CAF, such that we can HELP the evildoers draw closer to God, and NOT confirm their evil actions against us???

You may say whatever you like, wherever you like, but my initial sympathies with the Orthodox are quickly waning as a direct result of posts like this one, and the tone they take.

Quote
I mean, have YOU admonished them to be truthful and open, and thus repent from their ways?

Arsenios

I have spoken with them, yes. But, I am still undecided as to whether there exists something from which to repent.

In Jesus Christ,
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 23, 2007, 06:22:06 PM
Yes at times things could get very hmmmmm looking for the word I want  mmmmmmm interesting ? Spirited ? :o ::)

However taking action 2 weeks after someone has last posted is just NOT ON.

That is my main growse

To me there is a degree of injustice , even spitefulness.

The labels are still not there - oh except on other folk in other fora :(
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 23, 2007, 06:59:06 PM
I have to say that there were some issues of charity from both sides. From having witnessed hundreds of discussions on CAF, though, the same amount of issues present themselves within all the other forum areas...That said, I think the amount of resistance from both sides added to the decision to do away with "foreign invaders." That degree of resistance was not present within the non-Catholic area. What troubles me is that within the non-Catholic section, the treatment of Muslim posters (with exceptions) is worse than any I had ever seen in the EC sub-forum...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 23, 2007, 07:04:42 PM
Hello,

Do you really think, Athanasios, that "simple information exchange" is even desirable, when the salvation of souls is at stake?  Have you ever read an anathema?  Does it sound at all like a "simple information exchange"???

Arsenios
Under that phrase (maybe not the best word usage available) I put the explanations of the faith and reasons why they are correct and other viewpoints are incorrect. Remember, only the Holy Spirit can convert a soul - ours is not to convert, but to converse.  ;)

P.S. - I don't know about you, but I lack the authority to issue an anathema. ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 23, 2007, 08:41:28 PM
I have to say that there were some issues of charity from both sides. From having witnessed hundreds of discussions on CAF, though, the same amount of issues present themselves within all the other forum areas...That said, I think the amount of resistance from both sides added to the decision to do away with "foreign invaders." That degree of resistance was not present within the non-Catholic area. What troubles me is that within the non-Catholic section, the treatment of Muslim posters (with exceptions) is worse than any I had ever seen in the EC sub-forum...

What do you mean "worse" with the Muslim posters?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 23, 2007, 10:14:10 PM
I have to say that there were some issues of charity from both sides. From having witnessed hundreds of discussions on CAF, though, the same amount of issues present themselves within all the other forum areas...That said, I think the amount of resistance from both sides added to the decision to do away with "foreign invaders." That degree of resistance was not present within the non-Catholic area. What troubles me is that within the non-Catholic section, the treatment of Muslim posters (with exceptions) is worse than any I had ever seen in the EC sub-forum...

Thats so true ..the moderators very rarely intervened if at all in the R.C. moslem discussions .They let the Catholic posters have afield day insulting the prophet of islam also in the mormon /R.C. discussions ..i actually complained to the moderators about that once nothing was done about it ...what iv noticed, if the some of the catholics are losing a debate they turn to insults....yesterday there was a discussion by a very educated evangelical protestant about the pope his office his succession not of peter but of paul and the imaculate conception of mary ,this guy was so good to point the error from scripture and the early church fathers very cool and calmly that scripture and the holy fathers proved that there wasn't anything as a pope or a pope with supreme powers and that mother mary was born like you and i ...he was so good only one catholic or two tryed to debate with him the other catholics were insulting him ...i tryed looking for his post over there today i can't find it ;;they must of removed it.........stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 24, 2007, 12:49:42 AM
What do you mean "worse" with the Muslim posters?

I mean that the Muslim posters are treated poorly. At least in the EC forum, people still respected one another and there were fewer snide remarks and baseless attacks. Everyone seemed to have a close relationship despite disagreements and were willing to discuss...One may disagree with Islamic teachings, but to blindly and carelessly curse their prophet and uncharitably call Islam a religion of terror that rejects God is both rude and ungodly. I can't imagine wanting to be a Christian after being attacked the way some have been. I know for a fact that many Muslims on Islamic forums are reluctant to post on CAF because they know how unfairly others have been treated.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 24, 2007, 12:52:57 AM
Thats so true ..the moderators very rarely intervened if at all in the R.C. moslem discussions .They let the Catholic posters have afield day insulting the prophet of islam also in the mormon /R.C. discussions ..i actually complained to the moderators about that once nothing was done about it ...what iv noticed, if the some of the catholics are losing a debate they turn to insults....yesterday there was a discussion by a very educated evangelical protestant about the pope his office his succession not of peter but of paul and the imaculate conception of mary ,this guy was so good to point the error from scripture and the early church fathers very cool and calmly that scripture and the holy fathers proved that there wasn't anything as a pope or a pope with supreme powers and that mother mary was born like you and i ...he was so good only one catholic or two tryed to debate with him the other catholics were insulting him ...i tryed looking for his post over there today i can't find it ;;they must of removed it.........stashko

I think I'll head over and look for it...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 24, 2007, 03:09:29 AM
I have a real pain in my heart for the Eastern Catholics on CAF.

I see that "East and West" has started a thread "Debate on Essence and Energies" but he is not looking for a debate but an opportunity to ridicule Eastern Catholic theology.  This is obvious in his last posting in the thread.  The Eastern Catholics have to endure being trashed even in the new Forum which is devoted to them!
(http://www.emotihost.com/glass/18.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 24, 2007, 03:29:08 AM
I have a real pain in my heart for the Eastern Catholics on CAF.

I see that "East and West" has started a thread "Debate on Essence and Energies" but he is not looking for a debate but an opportunity to ridicule Eastern Catholic theology.  This is obvious in his last posting in the thread.  The Eastern Catholics have to endure being trashed even in the new Forum which is devoted to them!
(http://www.emotihost.com/glass/18.gif)
There was one post in another thread where he went so far as to equate the essence/energies idea with ditheism. It's a shame because he claims to be an Eastern Catholic. I think it was at that point that I decided it's really not worth reading anymore.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 24, 2007, 04:09:18 AM
RESIZING  AVATARS:
A lot of Avatars are just a little bit too wide and have that annoying sliding bar at the bottom.

Here's how to fix that with the help of Image Shack.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13523.msg187364.html#msg187364

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 24, 2007, 04:16:28 AM
There was one post in another thread where he went so far as to equate the essence/energies idea with ditheism. It's a shame because he claims to be an Eastern Catholic. I think it was at that point that I decided it's really not worth reading anymore.

Oh yeah! That's the one I started to post in and then quickly gave up... :-X
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 24, 2007, 08:15:13 AM
well well well  ;D ;D ;D

Irish Melkite has just made 2 wonderful posts on a certain Forum :)

You will find them on page 2 of a thread about  "A historical explanation of how things came to be "

He even brings up the matter of a certain meeting referenced in Reply 580 [ written by the Irish Hermit ] in this thread

I have to say I wonder how long these will last in their original unedited form. :-\
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 24, 2007, 08:19:27 AM
It will indeed be interesting to see if the posts - and me - survive  ::)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 24, 2007, 08:33:52 AM
He even brings up the matter of a certain meeting referenced in Reply 580 [ written by the Irish Hermit ] in this thread
On two occasions Patriarch Bartholomew has participated in a limited way in the Liturgy of the Word at a Mass celebrated by Pope John Paul II. The Patriarch has attended Mass, NOT vested in eucharistic vestments but simply in his bishop's mandyas which is worn by non-celebrating bishops at any liturgical service.  His deacon has read the Gospel in Greek and a Latin deacon in Latin. He also offered some prayer during the Liturgy of the Word; after that he has retired to the side and sat down for the rest of the Mass. He has taken no part in the actual Eucharist and nor has he partaken of communion. This is a far cry from concelebration of the Eucharist as claimed by the Catholic Answers article.

Somewhere on the Web there are photos of these occasions.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 24, 2007, 09:06:33 AM
Catherine Grant wrote: Any member who publicly posts on the issue again will be banned.
*
Now isn't it the oddest thing that I have signed up twice in the last 36 hours and asked to have Banned shown under my name and yet Catherine Grant will not do this.

She prefers to continue to promulgate the lie that I am not banned. What price truth?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 24, 2007, 09:22:38 AM
Now in fairness [ I can't believe I'm saying this  ::) :o ] She didn't say that the label would be there for all to see .

She just said they would be banned
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 24, 2007, 09:29:41 AM
Although I have decided to refrain from posting at the Latinized Eastern Catholic forum at CAF, I commend Irish Melkite for his wonderful posts there (especially the two recently mentioned in this thread).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jetavan on November 24, 2007, 11:32:13 AM
*
Now isn't it the oddest thing that I have signed up twice in the last 36 hours and asked to have Banned shown under my name and yet Catherine Grant will not do this.

She prefers to continue to promulgate the lie that I am not banned. What price truth?

Father, in America, the practice of publicly labeling violators of social convention (cf. The Scarlet Letter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_Letter#Plot_summary)'s bright red "A") died out with the Puritans. Now, we just do it secretly. ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 24, 2007, 12:29:42 PM
Now in fairness [ I can't believe I'm saying this  ::) :o ] She didn't say that the label would be there for all to see .

She just said they would be banned

So why does she break from convention to NOT list reasons for one not being able to post?   I have not seen this done at any other time.  This is a first.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 24, 2007, 12:52:41 PM
Has anyone tried Googling old EC threads lately? They don't seem to be there anymore...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: yeshua on November 24, 2007, 01:39:23 PM
I have a real pain in my heart for the Eastern Catholics on CAF.

I see that "East and West" has started a thread "Debate on Essence and Energies" but he is not looking for a debate but an opportunity to ridicule Eastern Catholic theology.  This is obvious in his last posting in the thread.  The Eastern Catholics have to endure being trashed even in the new Forum which is devoted to them!
(http://www.emotihost.com/glass/18.gif)

I believe the creation of the thread was my fault...

The thread is a split off from another where "East and West" made a terrible remark defacing the Eastern distinction. I flagged it and told Catherine it was offensive and an appropriate action be taken against this often polemical poster.

She apparently made a new thread for his attack, and replied to me that it had been handled. I just responded to her in kind:

Catherine,

I appreciate that you took some action, but my offense (and others) did not come from a derailed thread but from a poster who blatantly disregarded a belief of Byzantine Catholics and insulted it.

This is another stark example of this forum is now a hunting grounds against Eastern belief, and I know that is not your intent. Why is it acceptable for a Latin Catholic to call an Eastern belief un-Christian and a saint of the Eastern Catholics someone no better than Martin Luther?

"East and West" the poster is polemical and offensive, I would humbly request some appropriate action be taken besides allowing him his own thread to denounce an Eastern Catholic tradition.

Peace and God Bless.


We will see how it fairs...

Peace and God Bless!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: yeshua on November 24, 2007, 01:46:33 PM
But, I am still undecided as to whether there exists something from which to repent.

Magic,

The current treatment of your fellow Eastern and Oriental Catholics should be reason enough.

I believe CAF realized how bad their actions originally were and subsequently compensated. They even had Michael banned in the beginning, it was all a political move. If CAF was concerned about ridding the Catholic-Orthodox feud once and for all, and making it a lesson, they surely would have flown the "banned" banner on the "offenders," or at least removed them all together as they did our collection of threads.

Please also note that none of the Latin Catholics who were equally as volatile, and often the instigators, were banned.

Peace and God Bless.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 24, 2007, 04:06:33 PM
I mean that the Muslim posters are treated poorly. At least in the EC forum, people still respected one another and there were fewer snide remarks and baseless attacks. Everyone seemed to have a close relationship despite disagreements and were willing to discuss...One may disagree with Islamic teachings, but to blindly and carelessly curse their prophet and uncharitably call Islam a religion of terror that rejects God is both rude and ungodly. I can't imagine wanting to be a Christian after being attacked the way some have been. I know for a fact that many Muslims on Islamic forums are reluctant to post on CAF because they know how unfairly others have been treated.

I don't know.  It might be experience under/with the muslims, and also seeing what is put on some ultra fundamentalist Protestant sites, that the stuff on CAF seemed tame.

Once, when I saw a muslim (ahmadi) link to one of those Protestant sites on Catholicism, I posted that he might want to see what the same site said on Islam, but watch out as "those people play rough."

One thing: on EC there was/is a lot in common to respect.  That's not the case on NCR.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 24, 2007, 04:24:49 PM
Magic,

The current treatment of your fellow Eastern and Oriental Catholics should be reason enough.

I believe CAF realized how bad their actions originally were and subsequently compensated. They even had Michael banned in the beginning, it was all a political move. If CAF was concerned about ridding the Catholic-Orthodox feud once and for all, and making it a lesson, they surely would have flown the "banned" banner on the "offenders," or at least removed them all together as they did our collection of threads.

Please also note that none of the Latin Catholics who were equally as volatile, and often the instigators, were banned.

Peace and God Bless.

Yes, I've just taken a peak, and I see that Hesychios is back. He pointed out, when the question came to "Eastern Catholic History" that that included the pre-union Orthodox, and thus that should be covered, according to the rules that the mods set up, in Non Catholic Religion.  Evidently they don't like consistency.

Except when it comes to uniformity. Yeshua, I'm glad to see you come to the aid of the Hesychists, since you being a Maronite, you don't have a dog in that fight, just looking out for your fellow Easterners. I see that Jimmy also is doing so (even, as he admits, he doesn't personally like the essence/energies distinction terminology).  I'm afraid your assessment of the situation is accurate.  The inquisiton lives.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: yeshua on November 24, 2007, 04:55:14 PM
Except when it comes to uniformity. Yeshua, I'm glad to see you come to the aid of the Hesychists, since you being a Maronite, you don't have a dog in that fight, just looking out for your fellow Easterners.  I'm afraid your assessment of the situation is accurate.  The inquisiton lives.

I had a (hopefully) productive chat with Catherine over PM. She expressed her concern in not knowing how to handle people calling particular beliefs heretical, and since it happens in the Non-Cath and Apologist forums, the Eastern Catholics should be able to hold their own. This was my response:

I agree Eastern Catholics should be able to defend their beliefs in a discussion, but when labels of "heretic" are thrown around, Catholicity doubted, and downright insulting phrases (like East and West's ubiquitous posts that I have been addressing) we cross the realm of debate and go into sheer attacks that resemble nothing of Christian charity. If someone brings up valid questions and concerns over a belief, say for instance my own irk about purgatory, I believe it is appropriate for me to present what I was taught as a Maronite and then present tradition that supports it. The minute I start calling St. Aquinas a heretic, non-Christian, and that he is no better than Martin Luther, I have crossed the line, and your [being Catherine] position comes into play. The failure of the last forum was that this line was crossed by both sides, and no action was taken.

Even though Hesychasm isn't a part of where I come from, even so far to where Jimmy and I have our own reservations, it doesn't allow others to come in and suddenly make outcries and labels that are not debatably sound and outright insulting.

Peace and God Bless!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 05:33:39 PM
*
A beautiful word for your first post in the Forum.

Peace to you too, dear Joab.

Fr Ambrose (aka Irish Hermit)

I just got banned from CA for mentioning the name change of the old thread! I didn't even realize I was messing up! Arrgh.

So now I know how you all feel. Bummer!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: BigFatGreekDaddy on November 24, 2007, 05:53:02 PM
If the (CAF) is really the most read catholic board, it is an amazing thing that they do treat all things Eastern with such contempt now.
They could have simply dissolved the entire subforum, and simply moved all things Eastern to another more generic forum.

Instead, new forum, simply serves to not only showcase disinformation on Eastern Christianity, but to visibly demonstrate what abhorrence that these catholics have for the truth held in the East.  All without giving us an opportunity to defend ourselves, or even give a modicum of hackamore to the Latin hate machine.

These new moderators are prime examples of why the RCC has been distrusted in the East for a 1,000 years.
It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Bile must be the gravy best served up with these Latin propagandists.

Yum :P

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paradosis on November 24, 2007, 06:51:23 PM
I just got banned from CA for mentioning the name change of the old thread! I didn't even realize I was messing up! Arrgh.

So now I know how you all feel. Bummer!

They banned you?  I'm really surprised at the actions of CAF.  I'm glad you've joined us here, though!  :)

God bless,

Adam (ForeverAdam) 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: yeshua on November 24, 2007, 07:07:21 PM
I just got banned from CA for mentioning the name change of the old thread! I didn't even realize I was messing up! Arrgh.

So now I know how you all feel. Bummer!

I believe you also got banned due to complaints made by some of the Eastern and Oriental Catholic posters.

Peace and God Bless!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 24, 2007, 07:24:34 PM
I just got banned from CA for mentioning the name change of the old thread! I didn't even realize I was messing up! Arrgh.

So now I know how you all feel. Bummer!

Welcome Joab. 

I notice that they DID put banned under your name right away.  I guess you are so wicked (LOL) that your don't merit the courtesy that we are told is extended to Fr. Ambrose et alia on why they do not appear as banned.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 24, 2007, 07:27:35 PM
If the (CAF) is really the most read catholic board, it is an amazing thing that they do treat all things Eastern with such contempt now.
They could have simply dissolved the entire subforum, and simply moved all things Eastern to another more generic forum.

Instead, new forum, simply serves to not only showcase disinformation on Eastern Christianity, but to visibly demonstrate what abhorrence that these catholics have for the truth held in the East.  All without giving us an opportunity to defend ourselves, or even give a modicum of hackamore to the Latin hate machine.

These new moderators are prime examples of why the RCC has been distrusted in the East for a 1,000 years.
It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Bile must be the gravy best served up with these Latin propagandists.

Yum :P



I noticed that someone posted on how the forum change was better and those who were interested only is schism don't post know because they're conscience doesn't allow it (written in derision).  No mention of those who were banned but whose profiles don't show it.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 07:54:18 PM
I believe you also got banned due to complaints made by some of the Eastern and Oriental Catholic posters.

Peace and God Bless!

Why would they complain when I agree with them?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 07:57:35 PM
I noticed that someone posted on how the forum change was better and those who were interested only is schism don't post know because they're conscience doesn't allow it (written in derision).  No mention of those who were banned but whose profiles don't show it.

I think that was me and what I got banned for because I believe it violated a new rule the mod made on Thanksgiving day that I failed to heed I guess. I never did know when to shut up. That part was edited out though.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 08:01:00 PM
Welcome Joab. 

I notice that they DID put banned under your name right away.  I guess you are so wicked (LOL) that your don't merit the courtesy that we are told is extended to Fr. Ambrose et alia on why they do not appear as banned.

They sure did. No warning either. I was shocked because I didn't realize I had broken the "no mention of the old thread rule". 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 24, 2007, 08:02:56 PM
I've joined the banned ones

<<Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Sock Puppetry

This change will be lifted: Never>>
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 24, 2007, 08:09:49 PM
I've joined the banned ones

<<Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Sock Puppetry

This change will be lifted: Never>>

What's sock puppetry?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 08:15:41 PM
They banned you?  I'm really surprised at the actions of CAF.  I'm glad you've joined us here, though!  :)

God bless,

Adam (ForeverAdam) 

Yes they did. I guess I deserved it because I unwittingly broke a rule that was bannable. Seems the new moderator isn't fooling around. I had read it too just yesterday and even saw mention of it here.

This was at the end of post I made trying to answer anothers question as to the history of Eastern Catholics:

Quote
In fact, when this thread was called Eastern Christianity such discord was widely sewn in this thread. Since the change for the better name (Eastern Catholic) those who professed Catholics as heretics left in protest claiming to not be able to remain here in good conscience. They could find no purpose without a schismatic agenda to propagate.

I guess I deserved it. I'm an idiot! Thats what I get for being a curmudeon. I am sorry.  :(

I also wrote that it seemed apparent that because of Orthodox inactivity you all apparently weren't interested in unity.

This was before I knew you were all banned and it wasn't showing though. I am sorry for that as well.

I hope you all can forgive me and if not I understand.

Peace.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stanley123 on November 24, 2007, 08:17:25 PM
If the (CAF) is really the most read catholic board, it is an amazing thing that they do treat all things Eastern with such contempt now.
They could have simply dissolved the entire subforum, and simply moved all things Eastern to another more generic forum.

Instead, new forum, simply serves to not only showcase disinformation on Eastern Christianity, but to visibly demonstrate what abhorrence that these catholics have for the truth held in the East.  All without giving us an opportunity to defend ourselves, or even give a modicum of hackamore to the Latin hate machine.

These new moderators are prime examples of why the RCC has been distrusted in the East for a 1,000 years.
It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Yes. I was sorry to see something like this happen. It was an interesting and informative forum while it lasted and many of us were happy to learn from it. Just a few days before the E Christianity forum crashed, Joe Monahan had posted a congratulatory note to several participants with a beaming description of the forum as one of the best around.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 24, 2007, 08:17:50 PM
What's sock puppetry?
The same person deceptively using a different account.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stanley123 on November 24, 2007, 08:24:49 PM
Forbidden, as a great wickedness, by canons of both the Greek and Russian Churches.
Gary Kasparov has a new book out: How Life Imitates Chess, Making the right moves from the board to the boardroom. I have a feeling that CAF has made several wrong moves recently.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 08:26:44 PM
If the (CAF) is really the most read catholic board, it is an amazing thing that they do treat all things Eastern with such contempt now.

I don't think the mods treat anything with contempt except contempt.

Quote
They could have simply dissolved the entire subforum, and simply moved all things Eastern to another more generic forum.

That probably would have been the best as well as the traditional catholic thread too. Both threads seem to only cause division over volitile issues.

Quote
Instead, new forum, simply serves to not only showcase disinformation on Eastern Christianity, but to visibly demonstrate what abhorrence that these catholics have for the truth held in the East.  All without giving us an opportunity to defend ourselves, or even give a modicum of hackamore to the Latin hate machine.

There just doesn't seem to be so many Eastern Catholics involved. I think the biggest obsticle is the ignornace of the theology of the east. I admit I have seen Romans with ideas of Latinizations but I don't blame them. They know not what they do.

Quote
These new moderators are prime examples of why the RCC has been distrusted in the East for a 1,000 years.
It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.


Discipline is hard to take. Especially when your intentions are good. But I suppose these things are the stones that pave the way to sanctity.

Quote
Bile must be the gravy best served up with these Latin propagandists.

I don't know how to respond to that. Its about as bad as what I said to get banned. By the way it was just as derogatory to Orthodoxy and I am Roman yet I was banned just the same. You all should take note of that. I a Roman was banned by CA for a derogatory comment against Orthodoxy, though there is a chance it was more for just mentioning the old thread. Who knows.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 24, 2007, 08:29:35 PM
I guess I deserved it. I'm an idiot!
You're not an idiot. You acted with the best information you had.

I also wrote that it seemed apparent that because of Orthodox inactivity you all apparently weren't interested in unity.

This was before I knew you were all banned and it wasn't showing though. I am sorry for that as well.

I hope you all can forgive me and if not I understand.
God forgives.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 08:37:25 PM
I've joined the banned ones

<<Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Sock Puppetry

This change will be lifted: Never>>

I didn't even get a reason. Just the one that says I can't access anything. I guess I am left to speculate. Perhaps I tried to understand Orthodoxy to much and as such also understood the Vaticans encouragement of the Eastern Catholics to preserve their theology and custom. This caused me to denounce a couple of misunderstandings about latinizations in a couple of threads.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 08:39:27 PM
You're not an idiot. You acted with the best information you had.
God forgives.

Thanks, I appreciate that.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 08:42:10 PM
The same person deceptively using a different account.

I sent an e-mail asking for an appeal but I won't bother playing the ip changing game, though I could I prefer to be honest and respect them. Whats the point, I would still be me and they would see it anyhow.   ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stanley123 on November 24, 2007, 09:00:25 PM
I didn't even get a reason. Just the one that says I can't access anything. I guess I am left to speculate. Perhaps I tried to understand Orthodoxy to much and as such also understood the Vaticans encouragement of the Eastern Catholics to preserve their theology and custom. This caused me to denounce a couple of misunderstandings about latinizations in a couple of threads.
In reading through your posts on CAF, I don't see where CAF had any reason for objection.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 10:03:50 PM
In reading through your posts on CAF, I don't see where CAF had any reason for objection.

Oh well, I don't know. It certainly doesn't feel right but as St. DeMonfort says; Amen so be it. Maybe she felt I was to close to the old forum. I don't really know.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 24, 2007, 10:15:37 PM
Commiserations to the new Bannees, Joab and The Slave/Wannabee.  CAF has started to devour even its own!!  I suspect that the Mod for the Eastern Catholicism Forum is out of her depth and simply cannot moderate effectively in an Eastern environment. 

But... congratulations on having Banned under your names!  It's more of a courtesy than the rest of us were shown (about 13 of us, I think)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 24, 2007, 10:30:58 PM
CAF has started to devour even its own!!
Exactly as I said they would just over a week ago in this very thread:
Well, yes, they certainly are free to do so. But what kind of company are they in when they undertake a bibliocaust?
"Where one burns books, one will soon burn people."  -Heinrich Heine
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Heracleides on November 24, 2007, 10:41:11 PM
Commiserations to the new Bannees, Joab and The Slave/Wannabee.  CAF has started to devour even its own!!  I suspect that the Mod for the Eastern Catholicism Forum is out of her depth and simply cannot moderate effectively in an Eastern environment. 

I am curious - does anyone know if the new moderator is an Eastern Catholic? Somehow I get the feeling that Ms. Grant is a Roman Catholic and like Fr. Ambrose I come away feeling that she is truly out of her depth.  I believe Wynd publicly asked the question but never received a reply.  Does anyone happen to know?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 24, 2007, 10:49:48 PM
She was asked in her intro thread if she was eastern catholic. She is not. She did go onto talk about chocolate bribes though... :laugh: Maybe it is all too true? Did any of those that are banned try to bribe her with chocolate? If I get a banishment I will try to appeal with nice dark chocolate. ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 24, 2007, 10:52:10 PM
Oh! Wait! There are guests viewing this! Maybe she is one of them and will now ban me to get chocolate! Ooops! If I get banned, I will know why. No chocolate=no love at CAF.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Quinault on November 24, 2007, 10:58:54 PM
Father Ambrose;
You are quite well known over on CAF. My dear friend, a Catholic, remembers you clearly and is absoutely shocked that you would be banned. You are well thought of even in the "Family" section of the board.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stanley123 on November 24, 2007, 11:04:42 PM
I am curious - does anyone know if the new moderator is an Eastern Catholic? Somehow I get the feeling that Ms. Grant is a Roman Catholic and like Fr. Ambrose I come away feeling that she is truly out of her depth.  I believe Wynd publicly asked the question but never received a reply.  Does anyone happen to know?
I don't know how they choose their moderators. I don't know if anyone can apply or if the person is chosen on the basis of an inside recommendation. 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paradosis on November 24, 2007, 11:20:25 PM
 
I guess I deserved it. I'm an idiot! Thats what I get for being a curmudeon. I am sorry.  :(

I also wrote that it seemed apparent that because of Orthodox inactivity you all apparently weren't interested in unity.

This was before I knew you were all banned and it wasn't showing though. I am sorry for that as well.

I hope you all can forgive me and if not I understand.

Peace.

First, you're far from an idiot, my friend.  No reputable forum should ban a person over forgetting/not being aware of a new rule.  I'm only staying on CAF to provide some semblance of an Orthodox response.  They'll probably ban me eventually.  And God forgives us all.  We all jump to hasty conclusions.  Like I said earlier, it's nice to see that you made it over here.  :)

God bless,

Adam
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 11:29:16 PM
Commiserations to the new Bannees, Joab and The Slave/Wannabee.  CAF has started to devour even its own!!  I suspect that the Mod for the Eastern Catholicism Forum is out of her depth and simply cannot moderate effectively in an Eastern environment. 

But... congratulations on having Banned under your names!  It's more of a courtesy than the rest of us were shown (about 13 of us, I think)

Lol. I would actually rather banned didn't appear under my name. I am humiliated by it. If it wasn't there I could just fade away otherwise all my posts and name is smeared and for what :-[  I don't even know.

Funny another Catholic friend said the same thing you did. She was a female also and after reading my posts figured I must have ruffled her feathers somehow though I can't see how. Pray for those who persecute you I guess.  :police: AGAIN!  :-\
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Heracleides on November 24, 2007, 11:42:11 PM

First, you're far from an idiot, my friend.  No reputable forum should ban a person over forgetting/not being aware of a new rule.  I'm only staying on CAF to provide some semblance of an Orthodox response.  They'll probably ban me eventually.  And God forgives us all.  We all jump to hasty conclusions.  Like I said earlier, it's nice to see that you made it over here.  :)

God bless,

Adam

Adam - I see the thread containing your most recent posts (those addressed to the the possible re-vert to Catholicism) has vanished from the EC forum.  Was a bit disconcerting - was reading it, hit the refresh button and poof - it's vanished. 

I wonder if Ms. Grant is somehow related to Augusto Pinochet...  ;D
.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 24, 2007, 11:42:31 PM

First, you're far from an idiot, my friend.  No reputable forum should ban a person over forgetting/not being aware of a new rule.  I'm only staying on CAF to provide some semblance of an Orthodox response.  They'll probably ban me eventually.  And God forgives us all.  We all jump to hasty conclusions.  Like I said earlier, it's nice to see that you made it over here.  :)

God bless,

Adam

Yea I picked up on the refugees over here about a week ago from a link in a post over there before all those threads were removed and have been lurking ever since. And keeping my yap shut about all the displeasure with the decisions over there while still in support of them and this is how I get treated. I am still scratching my head about it. I think I am about done with forums. All I have ever wanted to do was help people but maybe I just don't know how. This feels like I have been hurt by the Church herself.  :'( but I know its just another case of misguided authority. Amen so be it!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 24, 2007, 11:45:45 PM
Adam - I see the thread containing your most recent posts (those addressed to the the possible re-vert to Catholicism) has vanished from the EC forum.  Was a bit disconcerting - was reading it, hit the refresh button and poof - it's vanished.
I saw that thread before Adam posted in it. What did he say?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Heracleides on November 24, 2007, 11:57:20 PM
I saw that thread before Adam posted in it. What did he say?

He can answer better than I, but he was attempting to address her concerns (based on three patristic sources) which she felt might be compeling her to re-vert to Catholicism.  He made mention of the Church Fathers and Orthodox teaching, which no doubt is why the whole thread vanished.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on November 25, 2007, 12:01:17 AM
He can answer better than I, but he was attempting to address her concerns based on patristic sources which she felt might be compeling her to re-vert to Catholicism.  He made mention of the Church Fathers and Orthodox teaching, which no doubt is why the whole thread vanished.
OK. I sent her a PM before it was deleted and told her to look somewhere else for balanced views (I did mention this forum ;D). The fact that she was asking such a question on a Roman Catholic forum doesn't bother me—I'm sure this place is just as biased. It's the fact that she's asking a question about Orthodoxy in a place where Orthodox posters are not even permitted defend themselves or their views that made me concerned about the information she would be getting.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 25, 2007, 12:09:53 AM
I saw that thread before Adam posted in it. What did he say?

Its still there, just been split and moved to the apologetics thread.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paradosis on November 25, 2007, 12:15:42 AM
Adam - I see the thread containing your most recent posts (those addressed to the the possible re-vert to Catholicism) has vanished from the EC forum.  Was a bit disconcerting - was reading it, hit the refresh button and poof - it's vanished. 

I wonder if Ms. Grant is somehow related to Augusto Pinochet...  ;D
.

I was confused about what happened to my post also.  However, I just noticed that they split the thread into two threads.  The one with the responses to which part of Catholicism the woman would revert to has been placed back on the Eastern Catholicism forum and the one with the responses to the quotes about the Papacy that she mentioned is now in the Apologetics forum.  I suppose that was fair.  :) 

God bless,

Adam
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 25, 2007, 12:15:58 AM
She was asked in her intro thread if she was eastern catholic. She is not. She did go onto talk about chocolate bribes though... :laugh: Maybe it is all too true? Did any of those that are banned try to bribe her with chocolate? If I get a banishment I will try to appeal with nice dark chocolate. ;D
And during the Fast! (oops! only if you're new calendar, but being Western, of course she is).

Oh! Wait! There are guests viewing this! Maybe she is one of them and will now ban me to get chocolate! Ooops! If I get banned, I will know why. No chocolate=no love at CAF.

Or maybe because she prefers milk chocolate.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Heracleides on November 25, 2007, 12:17:54 AM
OK. I sent her a PM before it was deleted and told her to look somewhere else for balanced views (I did mention this forum ;D). The fact that she was asking such a question on a Roman Catholic forum doesn't bother me—I'm sure this place is just as biased. It's the fact that she's asking a question about Orthodoxy in a place where Orthodox posters are not even permitted defend themselves or their views that made me concerned about the information she would be getting.

Ah - the thread is back... sans Adams posts re: Orthodox teaching, which were moved over to the Apologetics forum (still trying to determine if they arrived on the other forum in an original or 'sanitized' form).  ::)
.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 25, 2007, 12:25:22 AM
Ah - the thread is back... sans Adams posts re: Orthodox teaching, which were moved over to the Apologetics forum (still trying to determine if they arrived on the other forum in an original or 'sanitized' form).  ::)
.

Interesting, as the only post I've made there (besides welcoming Obadiah back) was to question why a thread on on the Orthodox Catholic Ravenna conference wasn't on Non-Catholic Religion, and Hesychias, on his return and I think Irish Melkite also, posed a similar question on other threads involving the Orthodox.  Paradoxically ::) those threads remained on the ECathF, and didn't get moved.

I think I'll pop over to Apologetics and take a looksy. :police:
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paradosis on November 25, 2007, 12:29:15 AM
Ah - the thread is back... sans Adams posts re: Orthodox teaching, which were moved over to the Apologetics forum (still trying to determine if they arrived on the other forum in an original or 'sanitized' form).  ::)
.

It looks like they didn't change anything.  I hope it receives good attention in the Apologetics forum. 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 25, 2007, 12:54:29 AM
Gary Kasparov has a new book out: How Life Imitates Chess, Making the right moves from the board to the boardroom. I have a feeling that CAF has made several wrong moves recently.

Yes, but they're not in checkmate yet... ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 25, 2007, 12:55:52 AM
Ah - the thread is back... sans Adams posts re: Orthodox teaching, which were moved over to the Apologetics forum (still trying to determine if they arrived on the other forum in an original or 'sanitized' form).  ::)
.

Purged as through fire, no doubt! :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Stathios on November 25, 2007, 02:41:12 AM
MODERATION: This post was moved here from another thread.

Hello,

I was a fellow Orthodox on the catholic.com site. There was a forum there that allowed The Orthodox and the Catholics to converse. Of-course this site was set up to try to convert Orthodox to the Roman Church. Unfortunately this failed for the Catholics. Infact more and more people who were cradle Catholics or Protestants were asking questions about Orthodoxy and started to look into Orthodoxy. Some even converted when I was on the forum. This goes to show you THAT WE ARE THE ONE CHURCH, THE TRUE CHURCH.

I also would like to say thank you to my fellow Orthodox Brothers and sisters who helped with the cause.

Stathios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on November 25, 2007, 03:41:33 AM
MODERATION: This post was moved here from another thread.

Hello,

I was a fellow Orthodox on the catholic.com site. There was a forum there that allowed The Orthodox and the Catholics to converse. Of-course this site was set up to try to convert Orthodox to the Roman Church. Unfortunately this failed for the Catholics. Infact more and more people who were cradle Catholics or Protestants were asking questions about Orthodoxy and started to look into Orthodoxy. Some even converted when I was on the forum. This goes to show you THAT WE ARE THE ONE CHURCH, THE TRUE CHURCH.

I also would like to say thank you to my fellow Orthodox Brothers and sisters who helped with the cause.

Stathios

I remember you--thank you for the many great posts!

Well, now that we're all here... ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 25, 2007, 04:02:29 AM
Oh I'll plead guilty to my sockpuppet - BUT in self defence it was after I had exchanged several PMs with the revered Mod trying to get a thread of unsubstantiated rumours shut down.

Fortunately I had downloaded all my PMs there before they started the banning protest.


HINT - those of you still there - grab your PMs if there is any evidence there
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 25, 2007, 08:36:42 AM
Just a few days before the E Christianity forum crashed, Joe Monahan had posted a congratulatory note to several participants with a beaming description of the forum as one of the best around.

Hi stanley, long time no see.

Unfortunately, Joe's opinion and a couple of dollars will get you a cup of coffee, but not posting privileges at CAF  :)

Many years,

Neil

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 25, 2007, 08:40:25 AM
I am curious - does anyone know if the new moderator is an Eastern Catholic? Somehow I get the feeling that Ms. Grant is a Roman Catholic and like Fr. Ambrose I come away feeling that she is truly out of her depth.  I believe Wynd publicly asked the question but never received a reply.  Does anyone happen to know?

If I read her reply correctly, she is canonically Latin, but sounded as if she is involved with/attending a Byzantine parish

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 25, 2007, 08:44:09 AM
Interesting, as the only post I've made there (besides welcoming Obadiah back) was to question why a thread on on the Orthodox Catholic Ravenna conference wasn't on Non-Catholic Religion, and Hesychias, on his return and I think Irish Melkite also, posed a similar question on other threads involving the Orthodox.  Paradoxically ::) those threads remained on the ECathF, and didn't get moved.I think I'll pop over to Apologetics and take a looksy. :police:

I thought for certain that I was going to get axed over that post in which I said that one cannot discuss EC in a vacuum that excluded EO - instead, I got thanked for restating the mission of the new forum with such "eloquence"  ???  Is that what I did? I actually thought that my post disparaged the new mission statement  ???

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 25, 2007, 11:07:17 AM
I thought for certain that I was going to get axed over that post in which I said that one cannot discuss EC in a vacuum that excluded EO - instead, I got thanked for restating the mission of the new forum with such "eloquence"  ???  Is that what I did? I actually thought that my post disparaged the new mission statement  ???

Many years,

Neil

Reminds me of a dissident in Romania, when, after being beat up again wrote a personal letter to Ceaucescu in which he stated that the problems he (the dissident) was having was all a misunderstanding and that if Nicolaie and Elena could have dinner together with the dissident and his wife, the whole thing could be sorted out.  He expected to be fired and beat up again. Instead months passed and nothing happened, and then they were issued exit vizas.  It seems that the securitate was so stunned that they didn't know how to handle the letter, so eventually decided to read it as another request to leave and issued the appropriate paperwork.

I've been waiting to see any reaction to my post on ECath forum on Marina's consideration of reversion (her word).  I think it's clear, but I don't think they know what to do with it.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 25, 2007, 01:00:49 PM
I thought for certain that I was going to get axed over that post in which I said that one cannot discuss EC in a vacuum that excluded EO - instead, I got thanked for restating the mission of the new forum with such "eloquence"  ???  Is that what I did? I actually thought that my post disparaged the new mission statement  ???

Many years,

Neil

Hi Neil

I was surprised that you didn't do a vanishing stunt after that post - total agreement.

I suppose it's a case of she read what she wanted to read
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paradosis on November 25, 2007, 08:01:56 PM
When I visited the "Apologetics" subforum of CAF this evening I noticed that my posts and those of the other Orthodox posters were removed from the thread about a woman considering reversion from Orthodoxy to Catholicism.  The moderator said that these posts were off-topic and that discussion should cease until the OP returned.  In all my time at CAF, I've never witnessed such censorship.  It looks like the ability to defend Holy Orthodoxy is becoming even more difficult on CAF.  :(

God bless,

Adam
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 25, 2007, 08:08:01 PM
When I visited the "Apologetics" subforum of CAF this evening I noticed that my posts and those of the other Orthodox posters were removed from the thread about a woman considering reversion from Orthodoxy to Catholicism.  The moderator said that these posts were off-topic and that discussion should cease until the OP returned.  In all my time at CAF, I've never witnessed such censorship.  It looks like the ability to defend Holy Orthodoxy is becoming even more difficult on CAF.  :(

God bless,

Adam

My personal feelings is that we as Orthodox should avoid becoming involved in this group while the atmosphere of contempt is enjoying a heyday in polemics.  They enjoy their versions of what Eastern Christianity is and that satisfies them.  Their triumphalism is their banquet feast.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 25, 2007, 11:54:41 PM
I thought for certain that I was going to get axed over that post in which I said that one cannot discuss EC in a vacuum that excluded EO - instead, I got thanked for restating the mission of the new forum with such "eloquence"  ???  Is that what I did? I actually thought that my post disparaged the new mission statement  ???

Many years,

Neil

Could it have gone over her head perhaps?

I must say I was humbled by being banned just the same so its all good.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 26, 2007, 12:45:11 AM
My personal feelings is that we as Orthodox should avoid becoming involved in this group while the atmosphere of contempt is enjoying a heyday in polemics.  They enjoy their versions of what Eastern Christianity is and that satisfies them.  Their triumphalism is their banquet feast.



Well, we'll see. I just responded at length to a post on the NCR on why the interest in reunion is concentrated on the Orthodox or some such thing.  They may have had to choke on a word or two.

I also got a new signature there "Orthodox in communion with the Pope of Alexandria." :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 26, 2007, 09:42:47 AM
TO ISA...

I see that somone is trying to cause you grief over the use of the U word in the thread "If Catholic & EO unite, who can be Pope?"

You could remind that person that a moderatorial decision was rendered, more than once, that the word and its derivatives are permissible when used correctly.

This message from Heracleides in the link below contain references to two occasions when a member of the CAF Moderatorial staff approved it.

..............Ooops, just deleted the link since it was to another Forum.  Will send it via e-mail.



Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 26, 2007, 02:56:09 PM
They sure did. No warning either. I was shocked because I didn't realize I had broken the "no mention of the old thread rule". 
I am sorry to learn of your banning.

I actually liked to read some of your stuff!

Ok, ok, it's not like we agreed on several points. That doesn't matter, if we all agreed all of the time we would not have a reason to converse. I think your banning was a big mistake, when I saw it under your name I momentarily stopped breathing...I was pretty shocked.

It looks like there will be no one left to represent the Eastern Catholic point of view, or a balanced attempt, besides HailMary and Daiseegirl before long  ::)

My posting, like my patience and my temper, have reduced considerably. I have taken up baking   :D ...my goal is the perfect prosphora  8)

Yeast and flour don't raise my anxiety level nearly as much as these theological concerns.

Michael
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Lemko Rusyn on November 26, 2007, 03:19:29 PM
If I read her reply correctly, she is canonically Latin, but sounded as if she is involved with/attending a Byzantine parish

That's pretty much all it takes to pass as a "Byzantine Catholic" in most parts of the Internet these days.

Actual Byzantine Catholics are very few and far between on Internet fora (which is why we are all the more thankful for people like Irish Melkite, to correct all the bizarre misinformation, with an authentic voice)... of course, they are getting harder and harder to find even in Byzantine Catholic parishes, so as goes the world, so goes the Web  ::)

(Honestly, in the few months I'd been reading that forum, it didn't seem any more rancorous to me than most of them, not even the ones that are known for saccharine "charity". Now it's pretty much just a snooze-fest of "Here's all about the 'other lung' you never knew you had! Now start breathing with it!")
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 26, 2007, 03:25:36 PM
Merely for documentation purposes I am showing the post (still existent) for which I, too, received instant, but virtual banning on the Catholic Excuses Forum. To wit:
Quote
Nov 8, '07, 8:59 am
Aristokles Aristokles is offline
Junior Member
        
Join Date: December 19, 2004
Posts: 14
Default Re: First Thread - New Forum
So, as I understand this now, we in the "Holy Orthodox Catholic Church of the East" (a canonical name of our communion), which has never ceased referring to itself as the "Catholic Church" must now refrain from using the term "Orthodox Catholic" (itself an accommodation to those in the communion of the Church of Rome which also appropriates the name "Catholic Church"). Even "Eastern Orthodox" is a western derived term and technically foreign to us. I guess we could consider ourselves "Catholic Not in Communion with Rome"? Probably not.
To me, our participation here under this new requirement (and home in NCR) is tantamount to our saying that the Communion of Rome is correct and we are wrong. That I cannot do.

yes, I posted this as a test to verify the draconian measures being made there. I too received my banishment notice upon attempting re-log in 30 minutes later. And my account still does not note "Banned"
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=2942976#post2942976
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 26, 2007, 05:27:18 PM
I am sorry to learn of your banning.

I actually liked to read some of your stuff!

Ok, ok, it's not like we agreed on several points. That doesn't matter, if we all agreed all of the time we would not have a reason to converse. I think your banning was a big mistake, when I saw it under your name I momentarily stopped breathing...I was pretty shocked.

It looks like there will be no one left to represent the Eastern Catholic point of view, or a balanced attempt, besides HailMary and Daiseegirl before long  ::)

My posting, like my patience and my temper, have reduced considerably. I have taken up baking   :D ...my goal is the perfect prosphora  8)

Yeast and flour don't raise my anxiety level nearly as much as these theological concerns.

Michael

I quoted you and then saved it without replying. Doh.  :-[  I feel like a fish out of water here. I will continue to post here so long as I as I can do so peacefully despite my firm Roman indoctrination. I had let my passions rob me of that over there way to often. Prior to being banned I felt a need to withdraw some too but in my compulsion I ignored it.

Thanks and I always found your posts very charitable and I suppose that's why your still there and most of us are not. I can't deny having a hardened heart. I've even been known to get snippy with the Lord Himself. I could be laying in a ditch and still proud of myself some how.  ::)  You know what they say about pride, it always proceeds a fall. Thank God for God and that He is always Faithful to us despite ourselves.

I honestly think most Roman Catholics are ignorant of Eastern Praxis. I know I was just a few short months ago when I first barged into those threads. They need to be educated peacefully because most of us will naturally want to Latinize the East because we know no better.

Through exploration of the issues in the old threads I slowly came to realize there is no need. But it took that education to do so and now I can honestly respect Eastern praxis. I see the Eastern Catholics as building that bridge too. I actually found myself defending against notions of latinizations with other Roman Catholics trying to help them realize the same thing.

Then I arrogantly made a point about the old thread to rub it in and am paying the consequences. It's harsh but it was my mistake. As hard as it is to swallow, the moderator was fair in defending the rules against me as well as others.

I often push God into a corner so to speak. I sometimes don't recognize His will until I have no other alternatives. Then when that time comes all I can do is resign myself to this road block and try and do better to follow His will in the future. It has led me here and another forum that seems like it may be exciting as its extremely ecumenical with allot of sincere believers with sincere questions about both eastern and western Churches that I can answer. Not only that but its GUI is set up even better than CAF. I have only made a few posts there as of yet but so far haven't encountered any anti-Catholic/Orthodox propaganda, only lack of understanding with ears willing to hear. After spending allot of time on CARM I did not expect to encountering many folks from other belief systems who are charitable about it and willing to honestly hear a different perspective which encourages me. If you or anyone think you might be interested in helping to build bridges there from time to time, PM me and I will send you the site name. It is about twice the size (or more) of CAF with many many more theological topics to choose from.

Fr. A. I think you would have fun there too if your ever bored. There are many Orthodox there.

P.S. Please don't think I am encouraging anyone to leave here or have any criticism of this forum at all because I do not. I am not even recommending the other one with any opinion as I haven't been there yet but 2 days. I just feel this call and see a need for smart people like yourselves that could be very efficacious for all in reaching out over there from time to time as a sort of experience to broaden the mind through the experiences of others unlike ourselves.

Pax and

Totus Tuus.





Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 26, 2007, 05:40:25 PM
Quote
It looks like there will be no one left to represent the Eastern Catholic point of view, or a balanced attempt, besides HailMary and Daiseegirl before long   ::)

Well from what I managed to see on the Essence and Energies thread tonight there will be very few folk of any stripe before long.

I'm sure I have seen Daisiegirl under another name somewhere  :-\ < scratching head >
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 26, 2007, 06:00:53 PM
I didn't even get a reason. Just the one that says I can't access anything. I guess I am left to speculate. Perhaps I tried to understand Orthodoxy to much and as such also understood the Vaticans encouragement of the Eastern Catholics to preserve their theology and custom. This caused me to denounce a couple of misunderstandings about latinizations in a couple of threads.

This is how most if not all those who got canned got it.  No warning, no PM'ing to let us know why it was done.  Just whack and it was all over.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 26, 2007, 06:35:10 PM
Merely for documentation purposes I am showing the post (still existent) for which I, too, received instant, but virtual banning on the Catholic Excuses Forum. To wit:
yes, I posted this as a test to verify the draconian measures being made there. I too received my banishment notice upon attempting re-log in 30 minutes later. And my account still does not note "Banned"
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=2942976#post2942976

I remember reading that!

I see not showing banned under the name as misleading. I may have benifited from knowing what you were banned for. I fell into the same stiff rule. At least the rule had been created for a day after I got hit with it.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 26, 2007, 07:00:36 PM
Welcome to all the new bannees/refugees from CAF!!!  Pretty soon, CAF just won't even be worth logging onto (he said, with tongue firmly in cheek!).

As I expected, no one ever replied to me from CAF re: my post to them, me being me, I sent them this:
I sent you the following message last week, and have yet to receive a reply.  I wonder if someone there would show me the courtesy and decency of sending me a meaningful reply?

Many thanks,
Jeff

Previously sent message:
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Forum Admin folks,

As part of the clearing out of "offending" Orthodox Christians from CAF, my account was permanently locked, with, apparently, no opportunity for appeal.  That is fine--it's your web site and you may obviously do with it what you please.  I understand, however, that you are still showing me and others whose accounts have also been locked as active posters, showing us as junior, regular, senior members or whatever.  Is this not just a little bit disingenuous and intellectually dishonest?  If we have been, in effect banned, why not show us as such?  You could at least indicate that our accounts have been permanently locked and that we are completely unable to participate on your forum except to read posts as "guests".  Would that be problematic?  By showing us as active posters you are completely misleading all your other posters.  Does that not concern you?  Even a little bit?

I very much look forward to hearing from you with your response.

Happy Thanksgiving!

In Christ,
Jeff  ("Ziggernaut")


We'll see.  I ain't holdin' my breath!

God bless,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 26, 2007, 07:34:42 PM
I see that paradoxy got axed and she must have been a real pain :angel: LOL because she has banned under her name. :o

While you didn't come out and say it, I think it's only right to not even imply the word. - Cleveland, GM

Sorry, the comment was totally tongue in cheek, as I can't fathom why she was banned, let alone why such a lady merited such "special" treatment.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 26, 2007, 08:17:33 PM
Brother Michael,

Thanks for using the old avatar, family members think its me with...hair

james
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 26, 2007, 09:30:19 PM
MODERATION:
I have split off a post from this thread and moved it to the Moderator's Forum.
The reason I have done so is to allow us time to consider the legal implications of the post.
Basically, the post which was removed accuses specific people on CAF as well as CAF corporately of breaking the law.
First of all, in our judicial systems in the US, Australia and NZ, a court is required to determine whether someone has broken the law. Our judicial systems assume innocence until guilt is proven.
While it is certainly acceptable that questions be asked as to whether certain actions are legal or not, only the judicial system can determine guilt or innocence or determine that a case is proven or not proven.
To make statements to the effect that someone has indeed broken the law based solely on one's personal opinion constitutes both libel and contempt of court.
Removing the post is meant to protect the poster, and the board from any legal repercussions.
Please be more careful about what you say publicly, as there could be legal ramifications for you.

Thanks,
George
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 26, 2007, 09:49:27 PM
I just don't visit there anymore...shake the sand from yer shoes, sneakers, boots, sandals etc and move on
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 26, 2007, 10:33:13 PM
I just don't visit there anymore...shake the sand from yer shoes, sneakers, boots, sandals etc and move on

That seems like a pretty sane and sound response to me.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 26, 2007, 11:30:47 PM
Well from what I managed to see on the Essence and Energies thread tonight there will be very few folk of any stripe before long.

I'm sure I have seen Daisiegirl under another name somewhere  :-\ < scratching head >


I took a post of the old Hesychists-are-ditheists of that thread, along the response to your post to this basically telling you "if you can't stand the heat...."

I started a new thread in Apologetics (I meant NCR, but was helping my son with his homework are missed where I put it) and post it.

The thread was locked within 5 minutes, with a post (and link) that it was a duplicate thread, and the link led back to ECath.  My response wasn't moved, though.

soo I guess can't wander off the reservation.... ::)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jetavan on November 27, 2007, 01:04:21 AM
I took a post of the old Hesychists-are-ditheists of that thread, along the response to your post to this basically telling you "if you can't stand the heat...."

I started a new thread in Apologetics (I meant NCR, but was helping my son with his homework are missed where I put it) and post it.

The thread was locked within 5 minutes, with a post (and link) that it was a duplicate thread, and the link led back to ECath.  My response wasn't moved, though.

soo I guess can't wander off the reservation.... ::)

I thought you were encouraged to take certain topics over to Apologetics?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Hesychios on November 27, 2007, 01:11:08 AM
Brother Michael,

Thanks for using the old avatar, family members think its me with...hair

james
Thanks James!

It's funny, I was thinking of you when I put it up today...no kidding!

We've had ourselves a ball o' fun a time or two, haven't we?

That is, for a couple of old internet junkies like us  ::)

Your brother,
Michael
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 27, 2007, 02:25:08 AM
TO ISA...

I see that somone is trying to cause you grief over the use of the U word in the thread "If Catholic & EO unite, who can be Pope?"

You could remind that person that a moderatorial decision was rendered, more than once, that the word and its derivatives are permissible when used correctly.

This message from Heracleides in the link below contain references to two occasions when a member of the CAF Moderatorial staff approved it.

..............Ooops, just deleted the link since it was to another Forum.  Will send it via e-mail.

Bless, Father,

I suspect that Joe's viewpoint on the usage isn't precedent any longer. Too bad he never codified the EC rules, since the ones he wrote for much of the rest of the site (like the banned topics list and the discussion rules in NCR which - altho they don't any longer have his name on them - are pretty much a verbatim copy of the ones he put out back when EO was an NCR subforum under him) seemed to have survived his "resignation" - at least for the moment.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 27, 2007, 02:28:37 AM
Actual Byzantine Catholics are very few and far between on Internet fora (which is why we are all the more thankful for people like Irish Melkite, to correct all the bizarre misinformation, with an authentic voice)... of course, they are getting harder and harder to find even in Byzantine Catholic parishes, so as goes the world, so goes the Web  ::) 

Rich, that has to be you,  ???  - yes?

Thank you for the kind words. Long time no see, although I catch your occasional postings to the e-group. Hope all is well with you, my friend.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: marlo on November 27, 2007, 02:57:54 AM
Every Orthodox is still free to post at CAF, just re register and post your questions to apologetics section

MODERATION: See note here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13287.msg188334.html#msg188334
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 27, 2007, 03:25:50 AM
Every Orthodox is still free to post at CAF, just re register and post your questions to apologetics section

Dear Marlo,

There are approximately 13 of us who have received this message  (some have different reasons given):

______________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Excess mod/admin resources required to monitor acct.

This change will be lifted: Never
______________________________
Fr Ambrose
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Black Knight on November 27, 2007, 04:04:11 AM
Rich, that has to be you,  ???  - yes?

Thank you for the kind words. Long time no see, although I catch your occasional postings to the e-group. Hope all is well with you, my friend.

Many years,

Neil
Hey Neil!
WASSUP?
Blackie
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 27, 2007, 04:28:30 AM
Dear Marlo,

There are approximately 13 of us who have received this message  (some have different reasons given):

______________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Excess mod/admin resources required to monitor acct.

This change will be lifted: Never
______________________________
Fr Ambrose


The anquish has actually caused me to be physically ill. I can't descern if this is justice or discrimination  ???
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 27, 2007, 05:35:11 AM
Every Orthodox is still free to post at CAF, just re register and post your questions to apologetics section
Umm. No they're not:
I've joined the banned ones

<<Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Sock Puppetry

This change will be lifted: Never>>
"Sock puppetry" is registering under another name.
Please do not give advice which you are not authorized to give.
If the moderators of CAF have said so, then could you please provide evidence, otherwise do not presume anything.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 27, 2007, 05:56:40 AM
The anquish has actually caused me to be physically ill. I can't descern if this is justice or discrimination  ???
*
Dear Joab,

I can sympathize with you as a fellow bannee and I think that some of the CAF employees have acted, and are still acting, abominably.  BUT don't allow it to effect you to the point of making you ill.  The best way to deal with it is to summon up our spiritual reserves and pray for the people responsible.  "Pray for those who deal with you despitefully"  - good religious advice and good psychological advice and it will take the knot away from your stomach.   So, all of us here who have been cast out of CAF -- let's form a chain of prayer for those who have dealt with us wrongly.
(http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/hugging/6.gif)

Fr Ambrose
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 27, 2007, 06:13:29 AM
*
Dear Joab,

I can sympathize with you as a fellow bannee and I think that some of the CAF employees have acted, and are still acting, abominably.  BUT don't allow it to effect you to the point of making you ill.  The best way to deal with it is to summon up our spiritual reserves and pray for the people responsible.  "Pray for those who deal with you despitefully"  - good religious advice and good psychological advice and it will take the knot away from your stomach.   So, all of us here who have been cast out of CAF -- let's form a chain of prayer for those who have dealt with us wrongly.
(http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/hugging/6.gif)



Fr Ambrose

Amen!
I think you are all being tested.
We follow Him Who said: "Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you." Let's not give in when the test comes and someone abuses us! God allows such things in order to separate the solid wheat (which lives His words) from the empty chaff (which just gives lip service to His words).
The test has come!
Stick with the wheat and keep your eyes fixed on Christ, "Whose winnowing fan is in His Hand, and He shall thoroughly purge His floor".
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7302/texni2007my9.jpg)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 27, 2007, 06:32:28 AM
Umm. No they're not:"Sock puppetry" is registering under another name.

Actually, CAF permits multiple nicks - one of the few fora which do so.  In its banned topics list, it has a specific definition of "sock puppetry" as a prohibited practice.

Quote
30. Using “sock puppet” identities to deceive others, promote an agenda, bolster one's own credibility, filibuster, or engage in debate with oneself in furtherance of a point of view

so, the banned practice is, basically, the literal sock puppet technique of talking to - or arguing with - oneself (or in support of ones own viewpoint), using another identity.

Is this place hanging up incredibly tonight, or is just me? (not happening to me elsewhere)

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 27, 2007, 06:41:13 AM
Actually, CAF permits multiple nicks - one of the few fora which do so.  In its banned topics list, it has a specific definition of "sock puppetry" as a prohibited practice.
Oh well, give it a go then.

Is this place hanging up incredibly tonight, or is just me? (not happening to me elsewhere)
I was having problems earlier while Robert was on (which usually means he's tinkering with the site as our technical wizard), but I'm not having any trouble now.
If you are still experiencing difficulties, start a thread in board news.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 27, 2007, 06:41:59 AM
Is this place hanging up incredibly tonight, or is just me? (not happening to me elsewhere)
*
The last 12 hours for me.  Pages simply refuse to finish loading.(http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/confused.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 27, 2007, 08:31:37 AM
*
The last 12 hours for me.  Pages simply refuse to finish loading.(http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/confused.gif)

Same here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 27, 2007, 09:18:39 AM
I see that paradoxy got axed and she must have been a real pain :angel: LOL because she has banned under her name. :o

While you didn't come out and say it, I think it's only right to not even imply the word. - Cleveland, GM

Sorry, the comment was totally tongue in cheek, as I can't fathom why she was banned, let alone why such a lady merited such "special" treatment.

God bless you, Isa, but I know exactly why I was banned and it was because I willingly and knowingly broke official forum rules - i.e. I publicly discussed moderator actions when I posted that people were getting secretly banned. The offending posts were, naturally, removed  ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 27, 2007, 09:52:36 AM
I have suddenly found myself in a strange dilemma. I suppose I was benign enough to not get banned at CAF. But now I cannot join the banned club. I am a misfit!  :o

Ah, but I still have Michael (Hesychios).  :)


Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 27, 2007, 10:04:40 AM
Hello,

I have suddenly found myself in a strange dilemma. I suppose I was benign enough to not get banned at CAF. But now I cannot join the banned club. I am a misfit!  :o

Ah, but I still have Michael (Hesychios).  :)

Isalmisry, too.

Since its Christmas, you could all start singing along with Rudolph:

Why am I such a misfit?
I am not just a nit wit!
You can't banish me
I quit!
Seems I don't fit in.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 27, 2007, 10:08:39 AM
Hello,
Isalmisry, too.

Since its Christmas, you could all start singing along with Rudolph:

Why am I such a misfit?
I am not just a nit wit!
You can't banish me
I quit!
Seems I don't fit in.
If there was a smiley that rolled around laughing, I would have posted it here.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Fr. George on November 27, 2007, 10:19:22 AM
I have suddenly found myself in a strange dilemma. I suppose I was benign enough to not get banned at CAF. But now I cannot join the banned club. I am a misfit!  :o

Ah, but I still have Michael (Hesychios).  :) 

Welcome to the island of misfit toys!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 27, 2007, 10:53:20 AM
Every Orthodox is still free to post at CAF, just re register and post your questions to apologetics section

MODERATION: See note here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13287.msg188334.html#msg188334

Marlo,

Tried it but got the same response as Irish Hermit.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 27, 2007, 12:45:45 PM
Actually, CAF permits multiple nicks - one of the few fora which do so.  In its banned topics list, it has a specific definition of "sock puppetry" as a prohibited practice.

so, the banned practice is, basically, the literal sock puppet technique of talking to - or arguing with - oneself (or in support of ones own viewpoint), using another identity.

Many years,

Neil

Hi Neil,

As soon as I was banned, without knowing what sock-puppetry even was, and with no intent to deceive or circumvent, I tried re-registering using a different username and password.  Bear in mind, that I didn't even know why I had been banned because the message I got said my account had been frozen at user's request.  Not unreasonably, I believe, I thought that I was the user and I certainly never requested to have my account frozen.  Well, almost immediately after I re-registered, that account was also frozen, the reason being "circumvention".  Go figure, eh?

So, here I am, playing on a much nicer, cleaner island with far fewer man-eating sharks circling in the surf  ;D.

God bless,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 27, 2007, 02:08:47 PM
God bless you, Isa, but I know exactly why I was banned and it was because I willingly and knowingly broke official forum rules - i.e. I publicly discussed moderator actions when I posted that people were getting secretly banned. The offending posts were, naturally, removed  ;)

leaving just the scarelet letter LOL.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 27, 2007, 02:52:44 PM
Welcome to all the new bannees/refugees from CAF!!!  Pretty soon, CAF just won't even be worth logging onto (he said, with tongue firmly in cheek!).

As I expected, no one ever replied to me from CAF re: my post to them, me being me, I sent them this:
I sent you the following message last week, and have yet to receive a reply.  I wonder if someone there would show me the courtesy and decency of sending me a meaningful reply?

Many thanks,
Jeff

Previously sent message:
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Forum Admin folks,

As part of the clearing out of "offending" Orthodox Christians from CAF, my account was permanently locked, with, apparently, no opportunity for appeal.  That is fine--it's your web site and you may obviously do with it what you please.  I understand, however, that you are still showing me and others whose accounts have also been locked as active posters, showing us as junior, regular, senior members or whatever.  Is this not just a little bit disingenuous and intellectually dishonest?  If we have been, in effect banned, why not show us as such?  You could at least indicate that our accounts have been permanently locked and that we are completely unable to participate on your forum except to read posts as "guests".  Would that be problematic?  By showing us as active posters you are completely misleading all your other posters.  Does that not concern you?  Even a little bit?

I very much look forward to hearing from you with your response.

Happy Thanksgiving!

In Christ,
Jeff  ("Ziggernaut")


We'll see.  I ain't holdin' my breath!

God bless,
Jeff

Well, our dear Therese did reply.  Here's what she said: "Ziggernaut--

The tag that appears under a banned member's name is placed there at the sole discretion of the CAF mod/admin staff."


Pretty meaningful and detailed, no  ::)?

But wait, there's more.  I then replied to her reply by saying, "Dear Therese,

Thank you for your reply.  It was, however, hardly meaningful, and doesn't answer the questions I asked in my original post.  My concern is for the disingenuousness and, to put it bluntly, dishonesty involved in the "banning" of me and my fellow Orthodox Catholic Christians.  I know you are busy, but can you not take a few moments of your time to address this important issue?

Many thanks,
Jeff


To which she replied, "forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2995708&postcount=8

Please see the information at the link above.
"  (I deactivated, I think, her link--you know what to do).

And I responded, "Dear Therese,

Thank you for the link.  However, it still really does not address the issue or my questions.  Why is it that I get the feeling that you at CAF are trying very hard to avoid the controversy that has been stirred up by freezing the accounts of (i.e. banning)so many Orthodox Catholic Christians from CAF?  Even the statement posted in the link you supplied is terribly misleading.  You say "...we can ban him privately so that a public stir is not created and so that he can retain the dignity of appearing to have stopped participating of his own volition...", but the fact of the matter is that a)a public stir has been created, and b)neither I nor any of my fellow "bannees" from CAF stopped participating of our own volition.  To set things up to give the appearance of something that is the direct opposite of reality is....well, I'll let you fill in the blank.  I am not the smartest person in the world, but even I can recognize such blatant dishonesty.  What dignity have any of us who have been banned retained?  We cannot even pm other members or post messages that stay up for more than 30-60 minutes to plead our case!  We have had no recourse to any kind of appeal mechanism.  And you have hoodwinked a large number of your members by your actions, which bring to mind a word familiar to many Russians and other Eastern Europeans--"purge".  You guys won't even discuss with us your actions, and even though it is CAF "policy", when what you have done has been on such a large scale, that "policy" becomes an ever-so-convenient curtain to hide behind.  How honest is that?

I don't pretend to speak for others, but I would only ask of you the following: candor, honesty, decency in your dealings with others, a willingness to openly discuss a difficult issue, and a modicum of Christian Charity.  Am I asking too much?  I certainly hope not, unless the people at CAF are not what they purport to be.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but this is nothing compared to the harshness with which I and my fellows have been treated by CAF, most of us for really no good reason at all.  At least no good reason that was ever explained to us in any kind of meaningful manner.

I sincerely hope that you will take all of this to heart, and find the willingness and compassion within your own heart to discuss this openly and meaningfully with me or anyone else of those who have been banned.

I look forward to your comments as soon as you are able.

In Christ,
Jeff
"

We're having a really deep, meaningful conversation, aren't we ::)?  At least it fills in some of the slow spots in my day   ;D.

God Bless,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 27, 2007, 03:35:16 PM
To which Therese replied, with finality: "Ziggernaut--

I'm sorry that the information I've provided does not satisfy your concerns, but that is all I have to offer to you on the topic.  Please do not email me about this subject again.  Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in bringing this discussion to a close. God bless.

Therese Martin
Administrator
Catholic Answers Forums
"


End of "discussion".  I didn't really expect more than that, but just had to at least try.

In Christ,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 27, 2007, 03:40:33 PM
I wonder at how many "moderation resources" she is expending NOW...

What a joke.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 27, 2007, 04:01:51 PM
Allow me to read between the lines and answer as if I were a CAF moderator:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your correspondence. Many Roman and Eastern Catholics were converting to Holy Orthodoxy based on the truth and the strength of the Orthodox position. Furthermore, those Roman and Eastern Catholics who did not convert, were complaining bitterly because they could not gain an advantage in any of the debates. There was no choice but to ban everyone wholesale.

Peace and blessings,
Mickey, psuedo-moderator
 ::)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 27, 2007, 04:07:18 PM
Hello,

Welcome to the island of misfit toys!

Perhaps we should post this on the forum homepage:

(http://sensoryoverload.typepad.com/sensory_overload/images/all_misfit_toys_welcome_here.jpg)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 27, 2007, 04:21:15 PM
Allow me to read between the lines and answer as if I were a CAF moderator:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your correspondence. Many Roman and Eastern Catholics were converting to Holy Orthodoxy based on the truth and the strength of the Orthodox position. Furthermore, those Roman and Eastern Catholics who did not convert, were complaining bitterly because they could not gain an advantage in any of the debates. There was no choice but to ban everyone wholesale.

Peace and blessings,
Mickey, psuedo-moderator
 ::)

Or......

Dear Mickey,
Being a Catholic Answers Forum, we cannot tolerate free and open discussion between Catholics and non-Catholics.  No questions allowed, as they may threaten us theologically.  Therefore, only answers of a Roman Catholic nature will be discussed.  Any violation or perceived violation of this policy will result in immediate and permanent banning.

We hope you will enjoy your experience with us.

God Bless,
Jeff
pseudo-/retired-/non-moderator
  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Schultz on November 27, 2007, 04:26:07 PM
Therese Martin?

While it's certainly not outside the realm of possibilities, I find it unlikely that a moderator of a Catholic forum would have the same name as the birthname of one of Catholicism's most beloved saints (and certainly one I'm very devoted to).  One would think that, working in an official capacity, one would sign such an official email in one's real name.

If that is her actual name, then I'm wrong and will admit it.  It just seems a bit cutesy, that's all.

There's a reason I shy away from Catholic forums and it's because of Mickey Mouse stuff like this.  I think all the refugees should just shake the dust off and go about your business on here, so to speak, but those folks over at CAF are really going about this wrong way, IMHO.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 27, 2007, 04:26:25 PM
Or......

Dear Mickey,
Being a Catholic Answers Forum, we cannot tolerate free and open discussion between Catholics and non-Catholics.  No questions allowed, as they may threaten us theologically.  Therefore, only answers of a Roman Catholic nature will be discussed.  Any violation or perceived violation of this policy will result in immediate and permanent banning.

We hope you will enjoy your experience with us.

God Bless,
Jeff
pseudo-/retired-/non-moderator
  ;D

 LOL      :D   ;D   8)  
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 27, 2007, 04:28:35 PM
it's because of Mickey Mouse stuff like this. 

Hey!  I resemble that remark!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 27, 2007, 04:32:14 PM
Schultz,

I agree, it's a dead dog topic...let it go and move on

james
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 27, 2007, 04:42:05 PM
Schultz,

I agree, it's a dead dog topic...let it go and move on

james

Come on guys!  We enjoy venting!   :laugh:
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 27, 2007, 04:44:23 PM
Therese Martin?

While it's certainly not outside the realm of possibilities, I find it unlikely that a moderator of a Catholic forum would have the same name as the birthname of one of Catholicism's most beloved saints (and certainly one I'm very devoted to).  One would think that, working in an official capacity, one would sign such an official email in one's real name.

If that is her actual name, then I'm wrong and will admit it.  It just seems a bit cutesy, that's all.

There's a reason I shy away from Catholic forums and it's because of Mickey Mouse stuff like this.  I think all the refugees should just shake the dust off and go about your business on here, so to speak, but those folks over at CAF are really going about this wrong way, IMHO.

Yup, Therese Martin.

And I think the whole purpose of this thread is to facilitate shaking off the dust.  Well, and to poke a little fun at CAF here and there, too, maybe.  ;)

Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 27, 2007, 05:49:07 PM
Well, our dear Therese did reply.  Here's what she said: "Ziggernaut--

The tag that appears under a banned member's name is placed there at the sole discretion of the CAF mod/admin staff."
Aside from the moral issues of her choice of showing a person with a false status one has to wonder a little about the legalities.  Therese Martin is claiming that people who are not in fact members of her Forum are members.   Is she able to lie in this way about non-members?

To put it into two syllable words:

Fr Ambrose is not a member of CAF
Therese Martin is claiming that Fr Ambrose is a member and she is listing him on her Forum as such.

Some of us who are not CAF members, myself included, have asked her NOT to show us as members.  One would think that she has an obligation to respond to our demands on this matter and not list us as members.

Her continuance is this falsehood has also led to some harrassment - I have been accused by CAF members of lying about being banned. I have been told that I am trying to make CAF look bad.  This becomes stressful.







Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 27, 2007, 06:18:20 PM
Allow me to read between the lines and answer as if I were a CAF moderator:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your correspondence. Many Roman and Eastern Catholics were converting to Holy Orthodoxy based on the truth and the strength of the Orthodox position. Furthermore, those Roman and Eastern Catholics who did not convert, were complaining bitterly because they could not gain an advantage in any of the debates. There was no choice but to ban everyone wholesale.

Peace and blessings,
Mickey, psuedo-moderator
 ::)

Mickey,

Before you left the Catholic Church, I don't remember this level of sarcasm or mockery, or (IMO) false implications emanating from your posts.

If you want to prove your point, start a new thread, and floor me with the Orthodox evidence that proves her as God's Church on earth. Otherwise, I am clueless as to this evidence on CAF that had many Eastern and Roman Catholics converting to Eastern Orthodoxy.

In Jesus Christ,


Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 27, 2007, 06:36:52 PM
Mickey,

Before you left the Catholic Church, I don't remember this level of sarcasm or mockery, or (IMO) false implications emanating from your posts.

If you want to prove your point, start a new thread, and floor me with the Orthodox evidence that proves her as God's Church on earth. Otherwise, I am clueless as to this evidence on CAF that had many Eastern and Roman Catholics converting to Eastern Orthodoxy.

In Jesus Christ,




Hi Magic,

I'll let Mickey answer for himself, but I'd just say that I personally know of 2 people who came home to Holy Orthodoxy while on CAF--me, and Mickey.  I would imagine that from their point of view that's 3 too many--and the 2 of us are just the ones I have personal knowledge of.

As for your challenge to Mickey, I think that if you search this site and do all the same research and questioning that he and I and many others have done with an open mind and open heart, you might just find that Orthodoxy is, as you say, God's church on earth. 

Many blessings,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 27, 2007, 06:49:06 PM
Aside from the moral issues of her choice of showing a person with a false status one has to wonder a little about the legalities.  Therese Martin is claiming that people who are not in fact members of her Forum are members.   Is she able to lie in this way about non-members?

To put it into two syllable words:

Fr Ambrose is not a member of CAF
Therese Martin is claiming that Fr Ambrose is a member and she is listing him on her Forum as such.

Some of us who are not CAF members, myself included, have asked her NOT to show us as members.  One would think that she has an obligation to respond to our demands on this matter and not list us as members.

Her continuance is this falsehood has also led to some harrassment - I have been accused by CAF members of lying about being banned. I have been told that I am trying to make CAF look bad.  This becomes stressful.









Bless Father,

Hi Fr. Ambrose,
It probably wouldn't get you very far, but you might try emailing either Therese or one of the other boffins there, explaining that very situation.  Other than that, I seriously doubt if anyone has any legal recourse with them.  But what do I know?

They are what they are, and have proved themselves to be just that--unfortunately.

Frankly, I don't think they really care how much stress they have caused to you or anyone else.  The nature of that particular beast.

I can only say that one day they, like the rest of us,  will have to answer to God for their despicable actions.  Lord have mercy.

In Christ,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 27, 2007, 07:01:51 PM
*
Dear Joab,

I can sympathize with you as a fellow bannee and I think that some of the CAF employees have acted, and are still acting, abominably.  BUT don't allow it to effect you to the point of making you ill.  The best way to deal with it is to summon up our spiritual reserves and pray for the people responsible.  "Pray for those who deal with you despitefully"  - good religious advice and good psychological advice and it will take the knot away from your stomach.   So, all of us here who have been cast out of CAF -- let's form a chain of prayer for those who have dealt with us wrongly.
(http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/hugging/6.gif)

Fr Ambrose

I did that and then got a nervous tick in my right eye! Contemplation of Gethsemane and sleep has helped that though. You see I think its because I am not so sure they dealt with me wrongly as I contemplate forgiveness, reconciliation and the absolutism of the consequences of my comment that got me banned. Though I may have broke a rule I didn't recognize when I did it and I understand that sometimes there is no excuse for ignorance of the law, somehow I see their action as just as uncharitable as was my comment that broke the rule. Perhaps even more so because its a culpable decision where by mine was accidental. I cannot reconcile what those who I respected have done that feels so contrary to Christian mercy other than to unite my resolve with heaven in a prayer of Amen so be it! and Lord that I may see! Such absolutes I have a hard time with personally. Its as if being cast into a hell or purgatory on earth by fallible beings. The appeal is over and crying is of no use. Am I to believe if I fail to do my best all the time and make an in-advertant mistake God himself would act like this at my final judgement? Am I required to be perfect in this world to gain heaven? I am very confused by this action of CAF and the hypocrisy of it all. I have seen the pride in myself and realized how my upbringing has contributed but am I culpable of some sin? Is my lack of charity a sin? Just when I think I have put my finger on what I am to learn from this banning it starts to eat at me yet again. I have seen mention of dusting off my feet and I have done that before with others but how can you do that when its someone you love? Again the Garden comes to mind and I find no choice but to say Amen so be it!

Thanks for your reply Fr. A, I appreciate it and it helps.

Peace.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Lemko Rusyn on November 27, 2007, 07:14:40 PM
Rich, that has to be you,  ???  - yes?

Thank you for the kind words. Long time no see, although I catch your occasional postings to the e-group. Hope all is well with you, my friend.

Many years,

Neil

Yep! Right back atcha...

Mnohaja lita!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 27, 2007, 08:46:19 PM
Allow me to read between the lines and answer as if I were a CAF moderator:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your correspondence. Many Roman and Eastern Catholics were converting to Holy Orthodoxy based on the truth and the strength of the Orthodox position. Furthermore, those Roman and Eastern Catholics who did not convert, were complaining bitterly because they could not gain an advantage in any of the debates. There was no choice but to ban everyone wholesale.

Peace and blessings,
Mickey, psuedo-moderator
 ::)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Oh, well. I tried to roll on the floor and laugh. :D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 27, 2007, 08:47:55 PM
Hello,

Perhaps we should post this on the forum homepage:

(http://sensoryoverload.typepad.com/sensory_overload/images/all_misfit_toys_welcome_here.jpg)

Hay, I resemble that remark :P
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Athanasios on November 27, 2007, 08:51:17 PM
Hello,

Hay, I resemble that remark :P

(http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/basic/rofl.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 27, 2007, 08:58:47 PM
Hi Neil,

As soon as I was banned, without knowing what sock-puppetry even was, and with no intent to deceive or circumvent, I tried re-registering using a different username and password.  Bear in mind, that I didn't even know why I had been banned because the message I got said my account had been frozen at user's request.  Not unreasonably, I believe, I thought that I was the user and I certainly never requested to have my account frozen.  Well, almost immediately after I re-registered, that account was also frozen, the reason being "circumvention".  Go figure, eh?

So, here I am, playing on a much nicer, cleaner island with far fewer man-eating sharks circling in the surf  ;D.

God bless,
Jeff

They have the IP address of the computer you have used on your banned account. If you use a different computer and different names you can get on. The problem is that there is not much there now worth the effort.

I always liked Sherry Lewis the puppeteer and Lamb Chop her sock puppet..... She passed a few years ago...Rest in Peace...sniff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: GiC on November 27, 2007, 09:32:11 PM
They have the IP address of the computer you have used on your banned account. If you use a different computer and different names you can get on. The problem is that there is not much there now worth the effort.

I always liked Sherry Lewis the puppeteer and Lamb Chop her sock puppet..... She passed a few years ago...Rest in Peace...sniff

You could always just use Tor http://www.torproject.org/ (or any other, even substantially less secure, proxy) that way you get a different anonymous IP each time you log on. ;)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paisius on November 28, 2007, 01:13:52 AM
Allow me to read between the lines and answer as if I were a CAF moderator:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your correspondence. Many Roman and Eastern Catholics were converting to Holy Orthodoxy based on the truth and the strength of the Orthodox position. Furthermore, those Roman and Eastern Catholics who did not convert, were complaining bitterly because they could not gain an advantage in any of the debates. There was no choice but to ban everyone wholesale.

Peace and blessings,
Mickey, psuedo-moderator
 ::)
That's funny.... :D

You know when this first happened I took the CAF staff at their word, that they wanted to promote discussion on Eastern Catholicism in particular. But, after seeing the way they have behaved over the past couple of weeks I'm starting to believe that you may not be far form the truth.

Given, all of us would have been angry and upset for a while but eventually everyone would have settled in at the NCR forum. But instead of letting that happen they started summarily banning people for at least in my case no reason that I can figure out.

Well you know the old saying, if you can't beat them........ban them.

Yours in Christ
Paisius
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 28, 2007, 01:39:40 AM
Allow me to read between the lines and answer as if I were a CAF moderator:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your correspondence. Many Roman and Eastern Catholics were converting to Holy Orthodoxy based on the truth and the strength of the Orthodox position. Furthermore, those Roman and Eastern Catholics who did not convert, were complaining bitterly because they could not gain an advantage in any of the debates. There was no choice but to ban everyone wholesale.

Peace and blessings,
Mickey, psuedo-moderator
 ::)
*
Too funny. Thanks!   But any day now they're coming for you too... (http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/banned/2.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 28, 2007, 01:42:18 AM
Quote from: Ziggernaut
As soon as I was banned, without knowing what sock-puppetry even was, and with no intent to deceive or circumvent, I tried re-registering using a different username and password.  Bear in mind, that I didn't even know why I had been banned because the message I got said my account had been frozen at user's request.  Not unreasonably, I believe, I thought that I was the user and I certainly never requested to have my account frozen.  Well, almost immediately after I re-registered, that account was also frozen, the reason being "circumvention".  Go figure, eh?

Jeff,

I didn't mean to imply that re-registration would fly if it were not done for purposes of sock-puppetry. Re-registration for purposes of circumventing a ban is a separate issue and, IIRC, is also the subject of a rule under the Banned Topic List there.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 28, 2007, 01:46:05 AM
Dear Mickey,
Being a Catholic Answers Forum, we cannot tolerate free and open discussion between Catholics and non-Catholics.  No questions allowed, as they may threaten us theologically.  Therefore, only answers of a Roman Catholic nature will be discussed.  Any violation or perceived violation of this policy will result in immediate and permanent banning.

We hope you will enjoy your experience with us.

God Bless,
Jeff
pseudo-/retired-/non-moderator
  ;D
Love this one too, but sorry to say that now (http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/banned/4.gif)

(http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/banned/3.gif)(http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/banned/3.gif)(http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/banned/3.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 28, 2007, 02:45:16 AM
I just don't visit there anymore...shake the sand from yer shoes, sneakers, boots, sandals etc and move on
I don't go to the CAF EC forum anymore either, because I cannot in good conscience post in a forum that presents a "Latinized" view of the faith as normative for the Eastern Catholic Churches.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on November 28, 2007, 02:53:00 AM
I don't go to the CAF EC forum anymore either, because I cannot in good conscience post in a forum that presents a "Latinized" view of the faith as normative for the Eastern Catholic Churches.

God bless you Brother,,,Don't give up ,protect you ancient orthodox traditions ,,,don't let the latins water them down on caf...fight for your holy church,,,,,,,,,,,stashko





<a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZS%2526i%253D10%252F10%255F1%255F123%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank">(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_123.gif)<img border="0" src="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fimgfarm%252Ecom%252Fimages%252Fnocache%252Ftr%252Ffw%252Fsmiley%252Fsocial%252Egif%253Fi%253D10%252F10_1_123/image.gif">[/url]
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 28, 2007, 09:56:14 AM
Mickey,

Before you left the Catholic Church, I don't remember this level of sarcasm or mockery, or (IMO) false implications emanating from your posts.

If you want to prove your point, start a new thread, and floor me with the Orthodox evidence that proves her as God's Church on earth. Otherwise, I am clueless as to this evidence on CAF that had many Eastern and Roman Catholics converting to Eastern Orthodoxy.

Dear MS,

Mockery is a harsh and accusatory word to use.  Sarcasm? Hmmm? Surely you witnessed the wholesale banning of everyone Orthodox. My comment was posted tongue-in-cheek, but is it really that far from the truth? We were not born yesterday.  There was  a very intentional action to purge CA of the Orthodox "element".

Furthermore, if you were not floored with the wonderful treasury of Orthodox witness, patristic quotes, Scriptural references, canons, historical references, etc...then there is not much I am going to tell you. I would refer you to the archives, but it was purged also.

I have been Roman Catholic.
I have been Eastern Catholic.
But there is great joy to know that I have finally entered the loving embrace of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church--the Orthodox Church.

Peace,
Mickey
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 28, 2007, 09:59:28 AM
*
Too funny. Thanks!   But any day now they're coming for you too... (http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/banned/2.gif)

I shall not compromise. If it is God's will for me to join the ranks of the cyber-martyrs, then let it be so.  ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 28, 2007, 10:19:20 AM
Dear MS,

Mockery is a harsh and accusatory word to use.  Sarcasm? Hmmm? Surely you witnessed the wholesale banning of everyone Orthodox. My comment was posted tongue-in-cheek, but is it really that far from the truth? We were not born yesterday.  There was  a very intentional action to purge CA of the Orthodox "element".

You'll see it if you want to. Now that many posters are boasting of being banned, it is getting easier to see why it happened.

Quote
Furthermore, if you were not floored with the wonderful treasury of Orthodox witness, patristic quotes, Scriptural references, canons, historical references, etc...then there is not much I am going to tell you. I would refer you to the archives, but it was purged also.

But there should be. As far as I saw, 3-6 months back, all my investigations into Orthodox teaching and practice were met with responses that evaded the question, or started begrudging some practice or other of the Catholic Church. More often than not, responses were littered with derogatory comments towards Catholic saints and clergy.

Quote
I have been Roman Catholic.
I have been Eastern Catholic.
But there is great joy to know that I have finally entered the loving embrace of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church--the Orthodox Church.

Peace,
Mickey

Yet, this joy seems absent from many of your posts.

In Jesus Christ,
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 28, 2007, 10:43:16 AM
You'll see it if you want to. Now that many posters are boasting of being banned, it is getting easier to see why it happened.

Boasting?

But there should be. As far as I saw, 3-6 months back, all my investigations into Orthodox teaching and practice were met with responses that evaded the question, or started begrudging some practice or other of the Catholic Church. More often than not, responses were littered with derogatory comments towards Catholic saints and clergy.

Interesting perspective. I saw no evasion. I saw direct and truthful responses.

Yet, this joy seems absent from many of your posts.

How so? Because you do not agree with me?  The absence of joy usually translates to a lack of charity and bitterness. Perhaps I should have been banned also? I will tell you something magicsilence: When I was in communion with Rome, I relentlessly attacked the Orthodox on CAF. At times I was uncharitable and disrespectful. I have asked forgiveness from my Orthodox brothers and sisters. I heard no complaints from the Roman Catholics about my "absence of joy" at this time. Through much prayer and discernment, the truth was able to permeate my soul and I was led by the Holy Spirit to the Holy Orthodox Church. Now I defend Her to the best of my ability and I am attacked by Roman Catholics as having "an absence of joy".

Nevertheless, if I have ever offended or attacked you in any of my posts, I ask for your forgiveness.

Many years,
Mickey

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 28, 2007, 10:47:31 AM
Yet, this joy seems absent from many of your posts.
This is extremely subjective.  How does one measure "joy" in a post at an internet forum?

I read (and participated in) the old EC forum at Catholic Answers for many years, and although some posts on both sides could be termed "polemical," overall the posts were simply informative.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 28, 2007, 10:50:40 AM
. . . all my investigations into Orthodox teaching and practice were met with responses that evaded the question . . .
Some of the answers that you judged to be evasive, in my opinion, were not; instead, they were often simply an answer that you did not want to hear, and did not agree with.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 28, 2007, 11:09:24 AM
it is getting easier to see why it happened.
Pardon?
Look Magicsilence, I don't give a toss what anyone believes or where their allegences lie. My best friend in the whole world is Jewish for heaven's sake! I don't care that you're Catholic. People are people no matter what their Creed. It would make no difference to me if the moderators and administrators of CAF were Zoroastrian or even Orthodox- I would still consider it an affront to human dignity that an archive of knowledge built over years should be just wiped out in a single stroke.
So try as you may, you will never convince me of the "justness" of the stunt pulled by CAF in destroying an archive.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 28, 2007, 11:17:29 AM
Some of the answers that you judged to be evasive, in my opinion, were not; instead, they were often simply an answer that you did not want to hear, and did not agree with.

Apotheoun, your own position on  this subject, is to me, a little confusing.

However, if I ask 'Why is the Orthodox position on 'x' like this?', I wouldn't normally expect an answer that follows the lines of 'Well, the Catholic Church's position on 'x' & 'y' is like this or that, so question solved'.

If the archive were open, I would happily delve in to bring back examples.

In Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 28, 2007, 11:18:41 AM
This is extremely subjective.  How does one measure "joy" in a post at an internet forum?

I read (and participated in) the old EC forum at Catholic Answers for many years, and although some posts on both sides could be termed "polemical," overall the posts were simply informative.

Subjective or not, it is the only means by which we communicate. Would you care to level the same criticism at the Gospel of St John, or St Mark?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 28, 2007, 11:26:15 AM

Interesting perspective. I saw no evasion. I saw direct and truthful responses.

And so we each justify our position.

Quote
How so? Because you do not agree with me?  The absence of joy usually translates to a lack of charity and bitterness. Perhaps I should have been banned also? I will tell you something magicsilence: When I was in communion with Rome, I relentlessly attacked the Orthodox on CAF. At times I was uncharitable and disrespectful. I have asked forgiveness from my Orthodox brothers and sisters. I heard no complaints from the Roman Catholics about my "absence of joy" at this time.

If you heard none directly, then perhaps your zeal was not as ruthless as you imagine. I personally do not dialogue with anyone who shows a lack of discernment or honest zeal for the Truth, Catholic or Orthodox, because experience has shown me it has no effect.

Quote
Through much prayer and discernment, the truth was able to permeate my soul and I was led by the Holy Spirit to the Holy Orthodox Church. Now I defend Her to the best of my ability and I am attacked by Roman Catholics as having "an absence of joy".

Then please elaborate how your previous post was a defense of the Orthodox Church, and not a sarcastic dig at the CAF moderators. I am honestly hurt that you could post something like that, completely irrespective of your spiritual history.

Quote
Nevertheless, if I have ever offended or attacked you in any of my posts, I ask for your forgiveness.

Many years,
Mickey



The only offense I perceived was a loss of charity, and it is not for me to forgive.

In Jesus Christ,
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Marc1152 on November 28, 2007, 11:41:19 AM
Mickey,

Before you left the Catholic Church, I don't remember this level of sarcasm or mockery, or (IMO) false implications emanating from your posts.

If you want to prove your point, start a new thread, and floor me with the Orthodox evidence that proves her as God's Church on earth. Otherwise, I am clueless as to this evidence on CAF that had many Eastern and Roman Catholics converting to Eastern Orthodoxy.

In Jesus Christ,




Work the term "LIBEL" into you next correspondence and I bet you get some action
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 28, 2007, 11:42:33 AM
Then please elaborate how your previous post was a defense of the Orthodox Church, and not a sarcastic dig at the CAF moderators. I am honestly hurt that you could post something like that, completely irrespective of your spiritual history.
Are you serious?

About 90% (or more) of the Orthodox posters were banned for no valid reason. Some of these posters were long time members with thousands of posts to their names. The word "banned" was not placed under many of their names to "protect their dignity"!!!  The vast archive of posts was wiped out in the blink of an eye!  The former moderator (Joe) is missing in action (fired, retired ??).  Orthodoxy is a taboo subject in the Eastern Catholic forum. Orthodoxy has been deemed "non-Catholic".

If you care to continue to accuse people of having a lack of charity, perhaps you should think about these issues in your free time.

No. It was not a sarcastic dig at the CAF moderators.  It was a legitimate evaluation based on their actions.

Surely you are not that naive!?!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 28, 2007, 11:44:19 AM
If the archive were open, I would happily delve in to bring back examples.

"If" indeed.  ;)

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 28, 2007, 11:45:58 AM
The only offense I perceived was a loss of charity, and it is not for me to forgive.
......or to judge.... ::)
Sanctimony is the caricature of sanctity.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 28, 2007, 11:49:35 AM
The only offense I perceived was a loss of charity

Perhaps you can meditate about that the next time you are about to tell strangers that their writings are "absent of joy".  :-[

.........Unless of course you are a reader of hearts.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 28, 2007, 12:08:10 PM
Pardon?
Look Magicsilence, I don't give a toss what anyone believes or where their allegences lie.

I don't share the same indifference, but I understand your point.

Quote
My best friend in the whole world is Jewish for heaven's sake! I don't care that you're Catholic. People are people no matter what their Creed. It would make no difference to me if the moderators and administrators of CAF were Zoroastrian or even Orthodox- I would still consider it an affront to human dignity that an archive of knowledge built over years should be just wiped out in a single stroke.

Firstly, it has not been wiped out. For the time being, access has been restricted.

Secondly, there were many threads in that archive that served only to breed hatred, and lacked any real semblance of honest scholarship.

Thirdly, I was under the impression that it was moderator action surrounding bannings that was the issue at hand?

Quote
So try as you may, you will never convince me of the "justness" of the stunt pulled by CAF in destroying an archive.

As detailed above, it is not destroyed.

In Jesus Christ,
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 28, 2007, 12:24:00 PM
Are you serious?

About 90% (or more) of the Orthodox posters were banned for no valid reason. Some of these posters were long time members with thousands of posts to their names. The word "banned" was not placed under many of their names to "protect their dignity"!!!  The vast archive of posts was wiped out in the blink of an eye!  The former moderator (Joe) is missing in action (fired, retired ??).  Orthodoxy is a taboo subject in the Eastern Catholic forum. Orthodoxy has been deemed "non-Catholic".

If you care to continue to accuse people of having a lack of charity, perhaps you should think about these issues in your free time.

No. It was not a sarcastic dig at the CAF moderators.  It was a legitimate evaluation based on their actions.

Surely you are not that naive!?!

Mickey,

I am sorry I started this debate, for accusing you of having a lack of charity, or questioning your motives. I see I have fallen into the trap of triumphantly expressing my point with no thought to charity myself.

Somehow, being in an Orthodox forum puts one on the defensive.

I will watch my own tone (& posts) in the future.

In Jesus Christ,
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: the slave on November 28, 2007, 12:25:47 PM
from Magic
Quote
Firstly, it has not been wiped out. For the time being, access has been restricted.


From my conversations with the Mod - even she could not get access to that Archive !!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 28, 2007, 12:29:58 PM
Firstly, it has not been wiped out. For the time being, access has been restricted.
We quibble over terms!
"We haven't burned the Library of Alexandria, we have merely encased it in 20 feet of concrete."

Secondly, there were many threads in that archive that served only to breed hatred, and lacked any real semblance of honest scholarship.
I only have your word for that now, don't I ? I'll never know the truth.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 28, 2007, 12:58:23 PM
Subjective or not, it is the only means by which we communicate. Would you care to level the same criticism at the Gospel of St John, or St Mark?
I have leveled no criticism at any "text"; instead, I have criticized your negative appraisal of the majority of posts written at the old EC forum.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 28, 2007, 01:57:53 PM


Somehow, being in an Orthodox forum puts one on the defensive.

I will watch my own tone (& posts) in the future.

In Jesus Christ,

Hi Magic,

You're onto something there. Bear in mind that the reverse situation also applies/applied. I haven't really noticed any real lack of charity in the discussions on the former EC board - bickering, almost familial in warmth, yes, at times, on both sides - but what you may have disliked in the posts of the Orthodox may have simply been a consequence of us being in the same situation you are in now, 'on the defensive'.

Also, the ethnic cultures of prevalently Orthodox countries, (mostly Slavic or Balkan or both), which tend to influence even Western converts, are very ... outspoken? I'm a Serb and everyone here speaks their mind all the time, especially about politics, religion and other public matters. People shout at each other in disagreement and remain close friends and loving family. Maybe this is the reason I've never noticed anything really uncharitable on CAF - this kind of discourse is mild compared to what I'm used to.  ;D

Quote
Firstly, it has not been wiped out. For the time being, access has been restricted.

I wish you were right. Take another look at the 'answer' given to a CAF member who inquired about them. They say the old threads are gone while they prune them for archive material to be used on the new Eastern Catholicism board - i.e. Orthodox thread and posts will be gone. Sigh.  :'(

God bless.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 28, 2007, 01:58:05 PM
We quibble over terms!
"We haven't burned the Library of Alexandria, we have merely encased it in 20 feet of concrete."
I only have your word for that now, don't I ? I'll never know the truth.


I'm onto the mods at CAF, to see what is happening.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 28, 2007, 01:58:36 PM


Somehow, being in an Orthodox forum puts one on the defensive.

I will watch my own tone (& posts) in the future.

Somehow the irony of these statements goes beyond description.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on November 28, 2007, 03:00:54 PM
They don't bother me none...they think I'm loopy crazy

I fooled thems...

james
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 28, 2007, 03:03:28 PM
Pardon?
Look Magicsilence, I don't give a toss what anyone believes or where their allegences lie. My best friend in the whole world is Jewish for heaven's sake! I don't care that you're Catholic. People are people no matter what their Creed. It would make no difference to me if the moderators and administrators of CAF were Zoroastrian or even Orthodox- I would still consider it an affront to human dignity that an archive of knowledge built over years should be just wiped out in a single stroke.
So try as you may, you will never convince me of the "justness" of the stunt pulled by CAF in destroying an archive.

Its interesting that you mention "justness".

They claim the archive is not destroyed and that it will be edited. I doubt this and I hope they will prove me wrong but I am not holding my breath.

Why I doubt it is because on several occasions the Moderator - Joe would remove entire threads and promise their return but it never happened but maybe once or twice I can recall. The same excuse was given that he was stretched to thin to get to it. This may well have been the case but on several occasions the thread in question, at least in my mind made a strong point for the Catholic point of view. Irregardless when you promise something you do not follow through on it is as good as lying. I think CAF has good intentions but just aren't following through or are going to be able to. So you know what that amounts to.

To me it sometimes felt that Joe was actually working against the Catholic point of view. The last thread I recall this happening to was on the Filoque and on the nature of the divinity. I felt some real breakthroughs were made in understanding the differing perspectives and then poof it was gone. Something else I observed in that and other threads was that the more it made sense the more offensively some reacted. It seemed that at times if a Catholic or Orthodox position was becoming undeniably strong the reactions would garner more and more disdain until it was closed or simply removed. If a position was gaining in the debate there was often triumphantalism following it up. I was berated for quoting scripture as one example. In all fairness, the Orthodox here that participated should also attest that if a Catholics tone and tenor exceeded the norms of civil discussion and charity they were more frequently dealt with than an irate Orthodox, at least in my assessment. The last example that comes to mind is the banning of Diane who was no more rude than anyone else.

What keeps coming to my mind is the beatitude of - Blessed are the peace makers. Wether the end justifies the means is the question for me. I mean, even I, a Roman Catholic who I might add is no less convinced of his praxis was banned as well just for mentioning the old threads. If I had done this in any other thread other than the EC one I would have been ok. So now they have a thread with special restrictions because Ms. Grant came up with a totalitarian rule so she could have a peaceful thanksgiving with her family. I am wondering what will become of her when the Holidays are over.

Peace.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 28, 2007, 03:16:49 PM
Peacemakers?!!
Sort of like that 'religion of peace'...our way or the highway...(or the ax).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 28, 2007, 03:22:12 PM
In all fairness, the Orthodox here that participated should also attest that if a Catholics tone and tenor exceeded the norms of civil discussion and charity they were more frequently dealt with than an irate Orthodox, at least in my assessment.

Joe was very fair. I rarely (if ever) saw a bias from him leaning one way or another.


The last example that comes to mind is the banning of Diane who was no more rude than anyone else.

Wow!  Are you joking?  In almost three years on that forum, I have never seen a poster who was more bitter toward the Orthodox faith and berating in her discourse.

I mean, even I, a Roman Catholic who I might add is no less convinced of his praxis was banned as well just for mentioning the old threads.

If I remember correctly, the tone of some of your posts was approaching ad-hominem. I am guessing that you were banned for more than just violating the "don't mention old threads" rule.  However, we will never really know because you were not given a warning or an explanation like so many Orthodox posters who were banned.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: lubeltri on November 28, 2007, 03:37:15 PM
The last example that comes to mind is the banning of Diane who was no more rude than anyone else.

Is this the same Diane also known as Dreher's Bane?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 28, 2007, 03:43:44 PM
So now they have a thread with special restrictions because Ms. Grant came up with a totalitarian rule so she could have a peaceful thanksgiving with her family. I am wondering what will become of her when the Holidays are over.

Peace.



More to the point, not that it really affects those of us who've been banned, is how much the totalitarianism, manifested first in the bannings, and then in the above-mentioned rules, will spread to the rest of CAF?  Unfortunately, totalitarianism has a really nasty habit of propagating itself.  And most certainly tolerates no truth or dissent--the very things that destroy it.  Lord have mercy.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Anastasios on November 28, 2007, 03:44:36 PM
I don't know about Dreher's Bahne but are you talking about Diane K. who used to post here as ZoeTheodora and is a devoted disciple of the Pillars of Heterodoxy, namely, Steve Ray, James Likoudis, and Warren Carroll? (this is an inside joke for long time forum members).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 28, 2007, 03:49:10 PM
are you talking about Diane K. who used to post here as ZoeTheodora and is a devoted disciple of the Pillars of Heterodoxy, namely, Steve Ray, James Likoudis, and Warren Carroll? (this is an inside joke for long time forum members).

One and the same.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: lubeltri on November 28, 2007, 03:55:50 PM
Yeah, that's her. I only know her as Rod Dreher's nemesis (back when I used to read his blog before it got tiresome).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 28, 2007, 03:58:29 PM

Wow!  Are you joking?  In almost three years on that forum, I have never seen a poster who was more bitter toward the Orthodox faith and berating in her discourse.



Diane??  Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!  Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggh!Yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikes!

Just the very mention of her, makes me.........eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 28, 2007, 04:03:51 PM
Joe was very fair. I rarely (if ever) saw a bias from him leaning one way or another.

Well naturally you would think he was very fair to you. I agree he was as fair as he could be and did a great job but I still think he was a bit biased because he was Eastern and this is why he was removed or as it was put "retired" but aren't we all a bit biased so its understandable? Personally I think if he had remained I would still be there too. If it had been the other way around though you may have noticed. Oh wait, I guess you have. Its hard to be inpartial when your focus is narrow.

Quote
Wow!  Are you joking?  In almost three years on that forum, I have never seen a poster who was more bitter toward the Orthodox faith and berating in her discourse.

I agree she was a bit bitter but so were allot of her opposition. I am not defending her style but making the point that she was banned for no less than she recieved while no one else was. Are you wearing rose colored glasses? Your whining about unfair treatment and you may be right but its certainly not about praxis, its about authority and power.

Quote
If I remember correctly, the tone of some of your posts was approaching ad-hominem. I am guessing that you were banned for more than just violating the "don't mention old threads" rule.  However, we will never really know because you were not given a warning or an explanation like so many Orthodox posters who were banned.

The warning was the day before I was banned in the form of a new rule that I misinterpreted, and your right I did approach ad-hominem in tone many times because I am an passionate old curmudgeon and I know it which could have played into it too, who knows. What I was told why I was banned you already mentioned in the same breath as saying we will never really know? Did you think I was guessing? So you see I was aforded an explaination that I then discussed with the Admins there. I was aforded an appeal that was denied which I respect. The appeal was denied because it would have been unfair to make an exception just because I goofed. So I dry my tears and move on. So your presumption is incorrect and approaching the same tone you accuse me of.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Anastasios on November 28, 2007, 04:05:02 PM
This was diane's incarnation on OCnet:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=369

Diane, if you're reading this, hope you're doing well. :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 28, 2007, 04:10:37 PM
More to the point, not that it really affects those of us who've been banned, is how much the totalitarianism, manifested first in the bannings, and then in the above-mentioned rules, will spread to the rest of CAF?  Unfortunately, totalitarianism has a really nasty habit of propagating itself.  And most certainly tolerates no truth or dissent--the very things that destroy it.  Lord have mercy.

Who knows, maybe they should apply the same heavy hand to the other argumentative threads too.  ;)

I don't think it will happen though because the primary mods of the other threads seem much more tolerant as I have seen much worse go on in other places there. Case in point the appologetics or NCR threads.

There is not an equal balance of chastising power across the whole board. Your basically stuck with who your mod is. Some stand for more than others. Ms. Grant makes rules that if you break even once you are immediately banned, no exceptions!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 28, 2007, 04:54:50 PM
Peacemakers?!!
Sort of like that 'religion of peace'...our way or the highway...(or the ax).

This begs the question how far should a peace maker go to keep the peace?

That would be a whole thread in and of itself I would think.

Are you the same Aristokes that is on CARM?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 28, 2007, 05:02:05 PM
It is I, the trouble-maker and rabble-rouser of that "other" forum, yes.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 28, 2007, 05:07:01 PM
I still think he was a bit biased because he was Eastern

He was Eastern Catholic. Sheesh!


Its hard to be inpartial when your focus is narrow.

You got that right!

Are you wearing rose colored glasses?

Certainly not.

Your whining about unfair treatment

Whining? There is no whining--it is a fasting time.  ;D

 
So your presumption is incorrect and approaching the same tone you accuse me of.

No accusations--only a remembrance of the tone of your posts. The very fact that you feel Diane should not have been banned speaks volumes of your own mindset.

However, let us start anew here my brother. Perhaps our discourse can be constructive.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 28, 2007, 05:12:14 PM
For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.

Peace and God Bless!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 28, 2007, 05:15:52 PM
Well naturally you would think he was very fair to you. I agree he was as fair as he could be and did a great job but I still think he was a bit biased because he was Eastern and this is why he was removed or as it was put "retired" but aren't we all a bit biased so its understandable? Personally I think if he had remained I would still be there too. If it had been the other way around though you may have noticed. Oh wait, I guess you have. Its hard to be inpartial when your focus is narrow.

I agree she was a bit bitter but so were allot of her opposition. I am not defending her style but making the point that she was banned for no less than she recieved while no one else was. Are you wearing rose colored glasses? Your whining about unfair treatment and you may be right but its certainly not about praxis, its about authority and power.

The warning was the day before I was banned in the form of a new rule that I misinterpreted, and your right I did approach ad-hominem in tone many times because I am an passionate old curmudgeon and I know it which could have played into it too, who knows. What I was told why I was banned you already mentioned in the same breath as saying we will never really know? Did you think I was guessing? So you see I was aforded an explaination that I then discussed with the Admins there. I was aforded an appeal that was denied which I respect. The appeal was denied because it would have been unfair to make an exception just because I goofed. So I dry my tears and move on. So your presumption is incorrect and approaching the same tone you accuse me of.

I'm got the impression of a history that Diane/aka Theoodora Zoe shared with those who knew her (I thought, what a name for an anti-Orthodox. She explained later, on another venue, how she chose it, when she admitted (she evaded Fr. Ambrose on this on ECF) that she was one and the same).  I think that came up to the fore.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 28, 2007, 05:18:19 PM
For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.

Peace and God Bless!

Limbo revisited!   :o
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 28, 2007, 05:20:20 PM
For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.

Peace and God Bless!

Well, like I say when we are looking for something "do you have it?" "yes, it's here somewhere" "well, if you can't find it then you don't have it."

I'll take your word, but I'll believe it when I see something (I don't think that is in your hands).

Magic, btw, I need a Maronite answer to something I posted elsewhere


do Maronites circumcize?

OK, I don't need the answer, I'm just curious.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 28, 2007, 05:30:28 PM
It is I, the trouble-maker and rabble-rouser of that "other" forum, yes.

I knew it.

I go by HourofMercy over there. How have you been? Good I hope.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 28, 2007, 05:32:50 PM
For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.
Google cache still has much of it available, you just have to do searches that are fairly specific.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 28, 2007, 05:34:48 PM
Well naturally you would think he was very fair to you. I agree he was as fair as he could be and did a great job but I still think he was a bit biased because he was Eastern and this is why he was removed or as it was put "retired" but aren't we all a bit biased so its understandable? Personally I think if he had remained I would still be there too. If it had been the other way around though you may have noticed. Oh wait, I guess you have. Its hard to be inpartial when your focus is narrow.
Are there any Eastern Catholic moderators at the Eastern Catholic forum at CAF?

P.S. -  Joe was very fair, and he should not have been removed as a moderator.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 28, 2007, 05:56:58 PM
I knew it.

I go by HourofMercy over there. How have you been? Good I hope.

Hey Big Guy! Finally made it here. Good.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 28, 2007, 06:00:22 PM
He was Eastern Catholic. Sheesh!

Yea, and when I first got there to that thread my bias was traditional Roman and I was easily offended as the majority of my on-line experience was with obstinate anti-catholics so I was highly defensive. I was confronted with a need for charity that I didn't seem to possess. I am human and faulty. Through patience and understanding I think I grew in charity and perhaps that was the whole point as I remain unconvinced to renounce a single doctrine. Though I can now reconcile most of them with the Eastern perspectives. For that understanding I am grateful yet it was a process that now CAF is lacking because its just to hot a topic for them to deal with. Or as they put it they felt Catholics were being confused.

It's not easy to be unbiased is my point. Even for a moderator. We are still going to confront our own convictions that we may favor in lieu of charity.

Quote
You got that right!


Don't I know it too. Between both lungs is the breastplate of middle ground.  ;)

Quote
Certainly not.

Well good.

Quote
Whining? There is no whining--it is a fasting time.  ;D

Would that be fasting or famine? Seems like the entire crop has been burned to me.

Quote
No accusations--only a remembrance of the tone of your posts. The very fact that you feel Diane should not have been banned speaks volumes of your own mindset.


I admit my own disdain when it rears its ugly head. Never have I said I think she shouldn't have been banned. Please don't put those words in my mouth. I don't think I even insinuated such or was I surprised when it happened. In fact I replied to questions about it at the time stating my speculations that were in line with the rules of the forums. For this I was admonished by Joe for doing so because to do so was taboo also. Ms. Grant would have banned me with no questions asked for that offense but Joe didn't. So even with the bias I perceived I think Joe still had more charity.

What I said means that I think others spoke as obtusely as Diane did who were Orthodox and they were not banned to point to the possible bias I observed. That is all and if the bias that I observed was the result of my own biases then at least there was equality because an arrogant Catholic was banned so you have to give them that much.  :laugh:

Quote
However, let us start anew here my brother. Perhaps our discourse can be constructive.

Of course. I am willing to learn and grow in Charity and the Holy Spirit.  :D


Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 28, 2007, 06:04:12 PM
Are there any Eastern Catholic moderators at the Eastern Catholic forum at CAF?

P.S. -  Joe was very fair, and he should not have been removed as a moderator.

We don't know for sure that he was removed. All that was given was that he retired as a moderator. He may have quit for all I know, unless anyone has heard from him and knows for sure. I speculate that he still works there but in his technical capacity.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on November 28, 2007, 06:05:26 PM
Quote
Well, like I say when we are looking for something "do you have it?" "yes, it's here somewhere" "well, if you can't find it then you don't have it."

I'll take your word, but I'll believe it when I see something (I don't think that is in your hands).

Magic, btw, I need a Maronite answer to something I posted elsewhere


do Maronites circumcize?

OK, I don't need the answer, I'm just curious.

1) It is not in my hands, but it is definitely still there.

2) Circumcision? Hmm, well, my Dad as a Maronite wanted me circumcised, but my mother convinced him NOT to have it done so that I could decide for myself when I came of age :o I'm still... undecided :-\

I believe in most Arabic countries circumcision is the norm. Since I was not born in my home country, this might be something another Maronite member may be able to elaborate on.

In Jesus Christ,
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 28, 2007, 06:16:56 PM
Hey Big Guy! Finally made it here. Good.

Not like I had much choice.  :-X  :)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 28, 2007, 06:51:53 PM
Limbo revisited!   :o

Come on Mickey, I thought the RC's said Limbo doesn't exist.  Ergo, neither does the archive.   ;D ;D
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: lubeltri on November 28, 2007, 07:10:08 PM
That's what secular media said. Actually, the commission re-affirmed the Catholic teaching that there is no defined Catholic teaching on limbo. It's theological opinion (and not very popular among most contemporary theologians).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: yeshua on November 28, 2007, 07:15:19 PM

do Maronites circumcize?

OK, I don't need the answer, I'm just curious.

Yes.

Peace and God Bless.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 28, 2007, 08:38:48 PM
Yes.
*
Yeshua,

Congratulations on the great work you continue to do on CAF in defence of the traditions and teachings of the Oriental Christians.

I see that it is now mainly Orientals who are defending their faith there - yourself and Magicsilence. ronyodish, mardukm, and jimmy, also HailMary (but she is just so heavily latinised.)  Seems to be very little contribution from the Byzantines?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 28, 2007, 09:10:00 PM
For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.
Like I said:
"We haven't burned the Library of Alexandria, we've just encased it in 20 feet of concrete"

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.
"The best course of action" would be freedom of information.
I thought the "Index Auctorum et Librorum Prohibitorum" was abolished ages ago.....
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: yeshua on November 28, 2007, 09:56:13 PM
*
Yeshua,

Congratulations on the great work you continue to do on CAF in defence of the traditions and teachings of the Oriental Christians.

I see that it is now mainly Orientals who are defending their faith there - yourself and Magicsilence. ronyodish, mardukm, and jimmy, also HailMary (but she is just so heavily latinised.)  Seems to be very little contribution from the Byzantines?

Abouna,

Thank you so very much. I am, however, still determining if my participation on CAF is permanent. There has been much going on behind the scenes in PM, I do not know if it would be healthy for me to remain. I went to CAF to get input on the Eastern/Oriental Catholic question, I now find myself merely defending that question being asked. We'll see, prayers please.

As for the Byzantines, they seem to be congregating per usual at ByzCath. It's sort of their home, which is understandable, and I believe the unwarranted expulsion of the Orthodox took with them a good junk of the Byzantine Catholics, which is of no surprise. What is left at CAF are those Orientals who don't really have a place to call home, nor the luxury of a group from our patrimonies. It's not the best place to be right now, I believe.

I am so very happy to see familiar names here, however! Thanks for such the warm embrace.

Peace and God Bless, as always!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 29, 2007, 02:15:36 AM
Yeshua,

Just a quick note to help in countering the assertions made by Ghosty and others that the essence/energy distinction cannot be found in the early Church Fathers with any precision.

Here is a quote from Saint Basil the Great who is mid-4th century -and that should be early enough.

“We say that we know the greatness of God, His power, His wisdom, His goodness, His providence over us, and the justness of His judgment, but not His very essence… The energies are diversified, and the essence simple, but we say that we know our God from His energies, but do not undertake to approach near to His essence. His energies come down to us, but His essence remains beyond our reach… So knowledge of the divine essence involves perception of His incomprehensibility, and the object of our worship is not that of which we comprehend the essence, but of which we comprehend that the essence exists.” 
Letter to Amphilochius
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 29, 2007, 03:15:35 AM
The distinction between essence (ousia) and energy / power (energeia / dunamis) is also found in Clement of Alexandria in the second century (See Henny Fiska Hagg's book entitled Clement of Alexandria and the Beginnings of Christian Apophaticism).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: The Iambic Pen on November 29, 2007, 04:52:25 AM
I admit I don't get to CAF as much these days, as I'm not on the 'Net as much, so I was very surprised to log on one day and see that there was no Eastern Christianity forum.  I was saddened by this, as I participated in many good discussions there (going back and forth from being pro-Catholic to pro-Orthodox many times... :) ).  I'm glad this forum exists, so that such conversations can continue.  I am very thankful to Catholic Answers for helping me discover the Early Church and showing me the flaws in Protestantism.  As such, I'm not going to immediately put them on some sort of "bad list."  I think we should all pray for the moderators and administrators of the forums there.  They believe that the Catholic Church, with its center of earthly authority and unity being in Rome, to be the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.  If they want to run a Catholic forum, rather than a Catholic and Orthodox forum, that is their right.  Still, from the sound of things, matters could have been handled far better.  And yet, I still think charity should be the word of the day.

God bless!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: marlo on November 29, 2007, 07:17:30 AM
yes more charity should have been given by the Orthodox on the CAF.
I admit I don't get to CAF as much these days, as I'm not on the 'Net as much, so I was very surprised to log on one day and see that there was no Eastern Christianity forum.  I was saddened by this, as I participated in many good discussions there (going back and forth from being pro-Catholic to pro-Orthodox many times... :) ).  I'm glad this forum exists, so that such conversations can continue.  I am very thankful to Catholic Answers for helping me discover the Early Church and showing me the flaws in Protestantism.  As such, I'm not going to immediately put them on some sort of "bad list."  I think we should all pray for the moderators and administrators of the forums there.  They believe that the Catholic Church, with its center of earthly authority and unity being in Rome, to be the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.  If they want to run a Catholic forum, rather than a Catholic and Orthodox forum, that is their right.  Still, from the sound of things, matters could have been handled far better.  And yet, I still think charity should be the word of the day.

God bless!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 29, 2007, 07:20:47 AM
We don't know for sure that he was removed. All that was given was that he retired as a moderator. He may have quit for all I know, unless anyone has heard from him and knows for sure. I speculate that he still works there but in his technical capacity.

I have heard from him and know for sure. He was 'retired'. PM me for his email - he told me I could share it with anyone who asks, but only via PM.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 29, 2007, 07:57:29 AM
We don't know for sure that he was removed. All that was given was that he retired as a moderator.
*
Yes, retired involuntarily!  I have been keeping in touch with sympathetic people in the CAF Administration and can assure you that he was sent a very brief notification of his dismissal, saying in so many words "CAF is moving in a new direction. Thanks and we wish you well for your future."

Let us pray for him and his family.  The EC Forum flourished under his hand.  The new one attracts very little attention and is primarily a chance for Latin Catholics who are poorly versed in Eastern things to suppress the voice of the few Eastern Catholic contributors.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on November 29, 2007, 08:41:11 AM
For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.

Peace and God Bless!

I'm sure it's not 'destroyed' - can electronic information ever be completely destroyed, anyway? - but we'll never see it again, that's for sure. What do you think will be ultimately decided as 'the best course of action'? Wait until everyone forgets, or is banned? Or make an archive for the new EC board, with (edited) threads dealing only with Eastern Catholicism, while those dealing with Orthodoxy remain 'undestroyed' but with 'restricted access' forever?  >:(

My anger is not directed at you. Euphemistic double-talk used to 'diplomatically' cover up actions of cover-up and on and on and on... upset me. I've lived most of my life under Communism and Milosevic, I know how it works, I recognize it when I see it, and it irks me greatly.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 29, 2007, 08:43:14 AM
yes more charity should have been given by the Orthodox on the CAF.
(http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/textinbubble1/24.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 29, 2007, 11:18:39 AM
This begs the question how far should a peace maker go to keep the peace?

That would be a whole thread in and of itself I would think.


Ask, and you shall receive!  Try this: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13611.new.html#new

In peace,
Jeff
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 29, 2007, 11:22:17 AM
(http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/textinbubble1/24.gif)

Please correct me if I am wrong, but in their "Staff" forum I got the distinct impression that CAF may be having second thoughts about what happened on there and will be reviewing the deleted archives and after reviewing (screening) them will be posting them under a "for view only" forum?

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Ziggernaut on November 29, 2007, 11:25:22 AM
That's what secular media said. Actually, the commission re-affirmed the Catholic teaching that there is no defined Catholic teaching on limbo. It's theological opinion (and not very popular among most contemporary theologians).

So, does that mean the missing archive exists as an opinion  :o ;D?  Or is it just someone's opinion that it exists  ;D :o?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Heracleides on November 29, 2007, 11:36:18 AM
We don't know for sure that he was removed. All that was given was that he retired as a moderator. He may have quit for all I know, unless anyone has heard from him and knows for sure. I speculate that he still works there but in his technical capacity.

I can confirm Fr. Ambrose's account as it was admitted by someone 'in the know' on one of the now vanished CAF threads that Joe's 'retirement' was in the nature of a forced retirement (i.e. involuntary).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 29, 2007, 12:37:15 PM
*
....I have been keeping in touch with sympathetic people in the CAF Administration and can assure you that ...
Well, hopefully they'll get the archive back.

Concerning legality, I won't say straightforward it's illegal, but if there is any brach there, it would be breach of copyright over posts published by users for years.

I'm not familiar with the copyright and litigation laws of U.S. to the extent I can offer a legal advice, but they are for sure bound by Universal and Bern Conventions on copyright.

Problems could arise regarding first owner of copyright in cases of pseudonyms, but Fr Ambrose (and Papa Ambrogio) were publishing under their real names, so that problem wouldn't apply to them. The breach is constituted by the fact that these posts vanished, and are not available to their authors, whom relied on their availability there once a post is published, unless the post violated any rule set by CAF. That would constitute a contract by adherence (there are rules of internpretation of such by adherence contracts by ICC, in favour of those whom adhered - i.e. the authors of the posts in this case). Or, the doctrine of breach of confidence could apply to the case. The same breach of confidence, and perhaps even malicious falsehood doctrines could apply to our bannishment without the reference made available to the public. OUr goodwill has been infringed by it, and Fr Ambrose and Papa Ambrogio certainly do have to take care of their goodwill/reputation.

On these legal grounds, there is no need to launch a litigation before a competent US court, there is also possibility of much cheapear and faster WIPO arbitration, provided CAF agree.

Yet another problem could be the case of discrimination, more particularly, religious discrimination, which is against the Universal Declaration on Human Rights (UN, 1948). Namely, they wipped off the entire board and censored published posts, though nobody said we broke any rule CAF set. They are entitled to do so, but making the archives unavailable, unlike in other cases, makes possible copyright breach and violation of author's rights even worse. However, on these grounds the plaintiff would need a case before the court and WIPO arbitration wouldn't be appropriate.

Kindly note the above is neither legal advice, nor an opinion about if they did make any breach of violation, just a speculation about the applicable legal principles.

But I do suggest to CAF members to consult their attorney before disregarding what's writen here.

Hopefully we'll see the archives back and nothing of the above will happen.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Αριστοκλής on November 29, 2007, 12:42:22 PM
Please correct me if I am wrong, but in their "Staff" forum I got the distinct impression that CAF may be having second thoughts about what happened on there and will be reviewing the deleted archives and after reviewing (screening) them will be posting them under a "for view only" forum?



Sanitized, huh? Sort of like the publishing of the Pedalion in Italy after papal redacting...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 29, 2007, 12:46:21 PM
Well, hopefully they'll get the archive back.

Concerning legality, I won't say straightforward it's illegal, but if there is any brach there, it would be breach of copyright over posts published by users for years.

I'm not familiar with the copyright and litigation laws of U.S. to the extent I can offer a legal advice, but they are for sure bound by Universal and Bern Conventions on copyright.

Problems could arise regarding first owner of copyright in cases of pseudonyms, but Fr Ambrose (and Papa Ambrogio) were publishing under their real names, so that problem wouldn't apply to them. The breach is constituted by the fact that these posts vanished, and are not available to their authors, whom relied on their availability there once a post is published, unless the post violated any rule set by CAF. That would constitute a contract by adherence (there are rules of internpretation of such by adherence contracts by ICC, in favour of those whom adhered - i.e. the authors of the posts in this case). Or, the doctrine of breach of confidence could apply to the case. The same breach of confidence, and perhaps even malicious falsehood doctrines could apply to our bannishment without the reference made available to the public. OUr goodwill has been infringed by it, and Fr Ambrose and Papa Ambrogio certainly do have to take care of their goodwill/reputation.

On these legal grounds, there is no need to launch a litigation before a competent US court, there is also possibility of much cheapear and faster WIPO arbitration, provided CAF agree.

Yet another problem could be the case of discrimination, more particularly, religious discrimination, which is against the Universal Declaration on Human Rights (UN, 1948). Namely, they wipped off the entire board and censored published posts, though nobody said we broke any rule CAF set. They are entitled to do so, but making the archives unavailable, unlike in other cases, makes possible copyright breach and violation of author's rights even worse. However, on these grounds the plaintiff would need a case before the court and WIPO arbitration wouldn't be appropriate.

Kindly note the above is neither legal advice, nor an opinion about if they did make any breach of violation, just a speculation about the applicable legal principles.

But I do suggest to CAF members to consult their attorney before disregarding what's writen here.

Hopefully we'll see the archives back and nothing of the above will happen.

I guess it boils down to: Are our writings lawfully protected on a public forum much the same as writing poems, books, editorials, articles, etc. in spite of the forum terms that we agree to?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 29, 2007, 12:54:52 PM
I guess it boils down to: Are our writings lawfully protected on a public forum much the same as writing poems, books, editorials, articles, etc. in spite of the forum terms that we agree to?

Well, if CAF doesn't get the archives back, and Fr Ambrose decides to go after it before WIPO, I'm sure I can recommend someone who would decently represent his case there. And the question you pose would be decided there.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: orthodoxlurker on November 29, 2007, 01:01:58 PM
I guess it boils down to: Are our writings lawfully protected on a public forum much the same as writing poems, books, editorials, articles, etc. in spite of the forum terms that we agree to?
Though I must admit I've never studied CAF terms. Have they been published?

Anyway, I do doubt there is distincion there against Orthodox Christians in their rules. It would be violation of mentioned UN Declaration on Human Rights.

And, yes, the copyright does subsist in these posts. It's only the problem of the first owner of copyright. However, unlike in US, the concept of authori's right is set by Universal and Berne Convention (US adhered to the later in 1992), so, what I'm speaking (writing) isn't just smoke and mirrors.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 29, 2007, 01:05:59 PM
Though I must admit I've never studied CAF terms. Have they been published?

Anyway, I do doubt there is distincion there against Orthodox Christians in their rules. It would be violation of mentioned UN Declaration on Human Rights.

And, yes, the copyright does subsist in these posts. It's only the problem of the first owner of copyright. However, unlike in US, the concept of authori's right is set by Universal and Berne Convention (US adhered to the later in 1992), so, what I'm speaking (writing) isn't just smoke and mirrors.

The terms are presented and have to be agreed to prior to one becoming a member of the forum. Im not sure whether or not these terms can be accessed outside of being a member in good standings.  I guess another question would be: Are the terms and conditions one agrees to lawful to begin with?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 29, 2007, 02:13:21 PM
The terms are presented and have to be agreed to prior to one becoming a member of the forum. Im not sure whether or not these terms can be accessed outside of being a member in good standings.  I guess another question would be: Are the terms and conditions one agrees to lawful to begin with?

As I expect the by-laws will give them complete ownership of anything published there.

Here are their rules from the registration form:

Quote
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Peace.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on November 30, 2007, 01:33:43 AM
...also HailMary (but she is just so heavily latinised.)

'She' is a he...  A friend of mine from the TheologyWeb board...  The handle is from the prayer, and is not indicative of gender...

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 30, 2007, 02:30:43 AM
I see that Mickey has posted the Saint Basil quote which is important in several ways.

1. It speaks of the essence/ energies distinction

2. It speaks of a diversity of the energies, Ghosty asserts they are one and "simple."

3. It is quoted by the Coptic Orthodox Metropolitan Bishoy in his monograph "Deification of Man and the Interpretation of "Partakers of the Divine Nature" (2 Pet 1:4)

http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/english/index.htm

Now these are all important points which overturn Ghosty's and Mardukm's theologising but they have decided to ignore the quotation and press on with their own interpretations. Pity that Saint Basil was not factored into their responses.

Saint Basil the Great:

“We say that we know the greatness of God, His power, His wisdom, His goodness, His providence over us, and the justness of His judgment, but not His very essence… The energies are diversified, and the essence simple, but we say that we know our God from His energies, but do not undertake to approach near to His essence. His energies come down to us, but His essence remains beyond our reach… So knowledge of the divine essence involves perception of His incomprehensibility, and the object of our worship is not that of which we comprehend the essence, but of which we comprehend that the essence exists.” 
Letter to Amphilochius
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 30, 2007, 03:34:17 AM
The banning bears fruit.

Two messages from CAF Catholics who have made the decision to convert to Orthodoxy.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 30, 2007, 04:30:56 AM
St. Basil in his Contra Eunomium when speaking of the many names applied to Christ in the Gospels highlights the real diversity of His energies, while he simultaneously affirms the unity and simplicity of His essence, for as he puts it:

". . . not all names mutually refer to the same thing.  For that which is indicated by 'light' is one thing, and by 'vine' another, and by 'road' another, and by 'shepherd' another.  Although He is one in substrate and has one simple uncomposed essence, He names Himself differently at different times; He adopts names different from each other in concept.  For He takes to Himself different names according to His different energies and according to His relationship towards the objects of His kindness." [St. Basil, Contra Eunomium, 1:7]

Now, in opposition to St. Basil's comments above, in which he affirms the real distinction between the various titles of Christ that describe His energies, Ghosty says that, ". . . God is simple in that His Justice, His Mercy, His Love, His Life, His Being, etc., are all the same thing, one and entire." [CAF thread entitled, Debate on Essence and Energies, post #112]

But this view of divine simplicity, as St. Basil points out in his Contra Eunomium, is utter nonsense, for as he says, "How, therefore, is it not absurd to say that craftsmanship is His essence?  Or again, that His providence is His essence?  Or again, that His prescience is likewise?  And, in general how is it not absurd to make every energy His essence?" [St. Basil, Contra Eunomium, 1:8]

Clearly, for St. Basil, and for the other Eastern Fathers as well, the divine simplicity does not involve the destruction of the real distinction between God's many energies (e.g., His providence, His justice, His life, His mercy, etc.); instead, God is simple because His essence is indivisibly present within each of His many energies, for the energies are truly manifold, while the essence is utterly one.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 30, 2007, 04:33:01 AM
It would appear that a few threads from the earlier forum have resurfaced.

I see that Edwin, may God grant him many years for his labor of love, has been allowed to resume his posting of the daily Saints and Feasts and the older sticky was reinstated.

Additionally, 8 or 9 threads have been restored - including a thread in which Marduk discussess his decision to transfer from the Coptic Orthodox to Coptic Catholic Church. All of the others appear to be from a period of 10 days or so prior to the forum closure - except for one on iconography. It dates back to 2004 and includes a warning about Monastery Icons by John/prodromos, as well as one of the early versions of my link lists on icons.

I was kind of hoping that the thread in which a Latin described iconographic representations as "scary" would resurface. IIRC, that thread had a lot of good material in it; it was one of the threads that Joe was intending to add to the reference thread set.  I'm trying to check for restored threads in the NCR forum, but it's a bit thick for easy checking - never mind, just thought of checking for Father A or myself as posters in that forum.

Hmm, interesting - came up with several for me - but they were chiefly responses to queries people posted about various 'vagante', independent, and Old Catholic bodies. A few, however, were clearly about Eastern Catholicism - one was made to a thread begun by Hagia Sophia, asking about Rites, another to a thread begun by Father, regarding the Eastern roots of Pope John Paul II. Very strange - either those were leftovers from when the East was ghettoized there previously or the restoral process is very rough in its categorization.  Father has about 1150 there, but the 100 or so that I skimmed looked to be in threads that would never have been hosted in the old Eastern forum - some on Celtic Christianity, early church history, and other interests of the good Father.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 30, 2007, 04:41:38 AM
The fact that CAF goes on hiding our banning is not good.

I see that Marduk just wrote to Bishop Basil:
________________________
I would also like to express how much I appreciate that you as an Orthodox have chosen to stay with us in the new Forum.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk
_______________________

He obviously thinks that the rest of us have voluntarily chosen to leave CAF.  He is not aware that about 13 of us were secretly banned and it is hard to avoid the conclusion, at least in my mind, that CAF wants to hide this fact from its members.

Anybody among us able to contact him and tell him the truth of what happened?  We did not leave CAF.  The Admin locked us out.

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Apotheoun on November 30, 2007, 04:41:50 AM
I have over 500 posts at CAF, but if you do a search for my posts you will find only 30 of them, and of those just four are dated prior to November 2007.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 30, 2007, 04:44:33 AM
It would appear that a few threads from the earlier forum have resurfaced.

I see that Edwin, may God grant him many years for his labor of love, has been allowed to resume his posting of the daily Saints and Feasts and the older sticky was reinstated.
*
He wrote that he was so downcast about the banning of the Orthodox that he ceased his daily Saints' Lives in solidarity with us.  But time does heal all things and he must be feeling more chipper now and has resumed them.
Today (30 November) is the commemoration of St. Tugdual of Brittany
See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-saints

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 30, 2007, 04:52:30 AM
He wrote that he was so downcast about the banning of the Orthodox that he ceased his daily Saints' Lives in solidarity with us.  But time does heal all things and he must be feeling more chipper now and has resumed them.

He also was not, until now, being offered a venue in which to post them - not in the way he had previously done so. That stickied thread that Joe had put up for him was among the early casualties of the "change-over" - it disappeared even before Joe "retired", along with the Reference Threads. Note the gap 11/6 - followed by 11/29  :o

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on November 30, 2007, 04:56:07 AM
The fact that CAF goes on hiding our banning is not good.

I see that Marduk just wrote to Bishop Basil:
________________________
I would also like to express how much I appreciate that you as an Orthodox have chosen to stay with us in the new Forum.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk
_______________________

He obviously thinks that the rest of us have voluntarily chosen to leave CAF.  He is not aware that about 13 of us were secretly banned and it is hard to avoid the conclusion, at least in my mind, that CAF wants to hide this fact from its members.

Anybody among us able to contact him and tell him the truth of what happened?  We did not leave CAF.  The Admin locked us out.

I don't think he has ever had an acct here, but he had one at byzcath back before he translated from OO to OC. I havent seen him post there in a long time, but the acct will still be there and might be that the e-mail link hasnt changed - I'll check

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: The Iambic Pen on November 30, 2007, 06:23:22 AM
I don't know if anyone is really considering this sort of thing, but I thought I would mention this:

1 Corinthians 6:1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church![a] 5I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!
 7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.


Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on November 30, 2007, 06:33:40 AM
I don't know if anyone is really considering this sort of thing, but I thought I would mention this:

1 Corinthians 6:1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints?
Doesn't this presume the existence of an Ecclesiatical Court recognized by both sides of the dispute?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 30, 2007, 07:34:25 AM
I don't know if anyone is really considering this sort of thing, but I thought I would mention this:

1 Corinthians 6:1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church![a] 5I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!
 7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.

*
The thing is that the employees of CAF give the impression that they are some kind of super court in themselves, intransigent, unquestionable and untouchable.  They have made it abundantly clear that the rules they create may be questioned by no one and even to mention, let alone question, any CAF employee's decision is grounds for instant punishment.  Members are suspended and banned with no reasons given.  Truth means little to the CAF people. As we have seen they enter fraudulent reasons on the pop up notifications given to those banned.  They conceal the bannings from the rest of their members.

To my mind this is a seriously sick organisation.  It appears to have created a group of super elite employees who do not accept the norms of truth and human concern, warmth and communication with which the rest of us operate.

Today (30 November) is the commemoration of St. Tugdual of Brittany
See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-saints
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on November 30, 2007, 07:39:21 AM
It would appear that a few threads from the earlier forum have resurfaced.

I see that Edwin, may God grant him many years for his labor of love, has been allowed to resume his posting of the daily Saints and Feasts and the older sticky was reinstated.

Additionally, 8 or 9 threads have been restored - including a thread in which Marduk discussess his decision to transfer from the Coptic Orthodox to Coptic Catholic Church. All of the others appear to be from a period of 10 days or so prior to the forum closure - except for one on iconography. It dates back to 2004 and includes a warning about Monastery Icons by John/prodromos, as well as one of the early versions of my link lists on icons.

I was kind of hoping that the thread in which a Latin described iconographic representations as "scary" would resurface. IIRC, that thread had a lot of good material in it; it was one of the threads that Joe was intending to add to the reference thread set.  I'm trying to check for restored threads in the NCR forum, but it's a bit thick for easy checking - never mind, just thought of checking for Father A or myself as posters in that forum.

Hmm, interesting - came up with several for me - but they were chiefly responses to queries people posted about various 'vagante', independent, and Old Catholic bodies. A few, however, were clearly about Eastern Catholicism - one was made to a thread begun by Hagia Sophia, asking about Rites, another to a thread begun by Father, regarding the Eastern roots of Pope John Paul II. Very strange - either those were leftovers from when the East was ghettoized there previously or the restoral process is very rough in its categorization.  Father has about 1150 there, but the 100 or so that I skimmed looked to be in threads that would never have been hosted in the old Eastern forum - some on Celtic Christianity, early church history, and other interests of the good Father.

Many years,

Neil

Yes, the post under my name are basically all the ones I posted outside ECF.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: The Iambic Pen on November 30, 2007, 07:46:54 AM
Doesn't this presume the existence of an Ecclesiatical Court recognized by both sides of the dispute?
True enough.  I just think Christians should hesitate to use legal action against each other, unless it's absolutely necessary, if for no other reason then that it looks very bad to non-Christians.

And, just so it's clear, I very much disagree with the action taken by Catholic Answers.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stanley123 on November 30, 2007, 08:00:27 AM
Doesn't this presume the existence of an Ecclesiatical Court recognized by both sides of the dispute?
Perhaps if someone has an inside track to an individual who is in on one of the various Orthodox- Catholic discussions going on, he could mention it as something in need of clarification or settlement.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on November 30, 2007, 08:32:49 AM
True enough.  I just think Christians should hesitate to use legal action against each other, unless it's absolutely necessary, if for no other reason then that it looks very bad to non-Christians.

And, just so it's clear, I very much disagree with the action taken by Catholic Answers.

We are Catholic and Orthodox. Didn't you know we're above scripture? Lol. J/K. (Though everyone acts that ways sometimes).

I think their disclaimer everyone agrees to when signing up would prohibit any such litigation anyway. It would be laughed at and thrown out unless someone is willing to throw allot of money at it that would just be wasted in the end. This is the internet where there are no laws to protect free speech in ones own domain.com. You can consider that site the same as private property. They have the right to prohibit anyone they like within reason and definition of the pre-stated rules which basically blanket any reason - carte blanc from tresspassing. I am sure it wouldn't be hard to extrapolate even more of those reasons from the old forum if pushed that far. To even think there is a case there is ridiculous and just blowing off steam.

I was one banned for just mentioning the old thread so I am not happy about it either. Nor was I pleased to see the EO removed so abruptly. I admit being smug about the change in forum as I was tired of all the passion of the old one and frankly the peace that ensued was a breath of fresh air. The loss of the resource is what I truly regret. But if I want to be set straight on how the EO feel on an issue I can always come here. In fact I have already been told I must repent of all my innovations in round about terms once already and I have barely been here a few days. Totally indicative of the contempt found in the old forum. In a way, I can understand their action as they couldn't possibly keep uncharitable and contemptuous posters restricted to separate threads. Its kind of a few rotten apples ruining the whole barrel situation.

I'm not about to stoop any lower than what got me banned because I am angry and can't swallow my pride. I have seen sites taken down/denied service before. Its only a temporary attack and that definitely is illegal so those with ideas of retribution should beware. Its much better to forgive and forget and let God sort it out.

I wished them all well and a blessed holiday season and I meant it and my IP isn't banned yet I will not re-register without permission. What would be the point? Theres a word that should be kept in mind when one professes to be a Christian and that is Integrity, even if offended or wronged. I have learned from that scripture that says to heap coals of love upon the heads of those who persecute you.

Peace.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 30, 2007, 11:12:24 AM
I see that Mickey has posted the Saint Basil quote which is important in several ways.

1. It speaks of the essence/ energies distinction

2. It speaks of a diversity of the energies, Ghosty asserts they are one and "simple."

3. It is quoted by the Coptic Orthodox Metropolitan Bishoy in his monograph "Deification of Man and the Interpretation of "Partakers of the Divine Nature" (2 Pet 1:4)

Saint Basil the Great:

“We say that we know the greatness of God, His power, His wisdom, His goodness, His providence over us, and the justness of His judgment, but not His very essence… The energies are diversified, and the essence simple, but we say that we know our God from His energies, but do not undertake to approach near to His essence. His energies come down to us, but His essence remains beyond our reach… So knowledge of the divine essence involves perception of His incomprehensibility, and the object of our worship is not that of which we comprehend the essence, but of which we comprehend that the essence exists.” 
Letter to Amphilochius


Thank you Fr. Ambrose, I do save these articles for future reference.

A self appointed member of the Father Ambrose continuing education and studies group. ;D

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on November 30, 2007, 11:21:23 AM
I see that Mickey has posted the Saint Basil quote which is important in several ways.

Bless, Father

Yes. I aped the quote from your post here at OC.NET  ;D

I too noticed that it was largely ignored.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: JoeS on November 30, 2007, 11:29:23 AM
Bless, Father

Yes. I aped the quote from your post here at OC.NET  ;D

I too noticed that it was largely ignored.

It was not unusual when we made cogent points that our arguments were left to die on the vine and remain unanswered. 
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Gabriel on November 30, 2007, 04:34:47 PM
The fact that CAF goes on hiding our banning is not good.

I see that Marduk just wrote to Bishop Basil:
________________________
I would also like to express how much I appreciate that you as an Orthodox have chosen to stay with us in the new Forum.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk
_______________________

He obviously thinks that the rest of us have voluntarily chosen to leave CAF.  He is not aware that about 13 of us were secretly banned and it is hard to avoid the conclusion, at least in my mind, that CAF wants to hide this fact from its members.

Anybody among us able to contact him and tell him the truth of what happened?  We did not leave CAF.  The Admin locked us out.



I have an account there.  I sent him a copy of this message to both his inbox and the email he provided me in a PM:

Quote
Marduk,

I am writing in reply to a post made on a different forum from the Orthodox folks who used to post here. They mentioned you:

Quote:
I would also like to express how much I appreciate that you as an Orthodox have chosen to stay with us in the new Forum.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk
"Chosen to stay?" No Marduk. Fr Ambrose and the rest were banned from here but their user names do not reflect that and CAF refuses to change it while also not letting anyone else know that they've been banned, you included, apparently.

Please visit: 

Link to forum, to this thread, etc.

Irini Passi

Hopefully, he'll get one of the two and visit here with y'all.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on November 30, 2007, 11:41:34 PM
I have an account there.  I sent him a copy of this message to both his inbox and the email he provided me in a PM:

Hopefully, he'll get one of the two and visit here with y'all.

Many thanks!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on December 01, 2007, 09:27:03 AM
Dear Friends from CAF,

I see the invitation on the front page to apply to join the private forums here where apparently a more incisive form of debate takes place.  But something in my soul draws back.  Did I have a surfeit of that on CAF?  Do I, do we, need a space and a time for healing and wholeness to grow again?  The wounds of how we were thrust out of CAF are still forming scabs and then new skin?  If anyone is on the private forums and wants to say a few words about how they find it there...?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on December 01, 2007, 09:45:39 AM
Dear Friends from CAF,

I see the invitation on the front page to apply to join the private forums here where apparently a more incisive form of debate takes place.  But something in my soul draws back.  Did I have a surfeit of that on CAF?  Do I, do we, need a space and a time for healing and wholeness to grow again?  The wounds of how we were thrust out of CAF are still forming scabs and then new skin?  If anyone is on the private forums and wants to say a few words about how they find it there...?
Bless, Father!

I just joined the 'private forums' and they're just unmoderated, that's all, which I find beautifully refreshing after CAF. Almost nothing is happening in the RC/EO department (that should change!  ;D), although the EO/OO debate gets hot at times, and there's political discussion as well (mainly pertaining to US politics).

Nothing to be afraid of.  ;)

I hope no rules were broken by briefly describing the 'private' forums on the public one. (Still afraid of unknowingly breaking rules and getting the axe, legacy of CAF  ;D)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ytterbiumanalyst on December 01, 2007, 10:04:10 AM
No, describing the type of posts in the Private Forums not only breaks no rules but actually helps us not to have to move posts that should have been in Private Forums to begin with. Thanks for your contribution.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on December 01, 2007, 01:14:10 PM
Yes, I have to admit when I first opened an account here, I tried to pursue a thread on OO relations, and was told it was private.  I was a little taken aback.

Now I see that perhaps it's a good thing, as it prevents prying eyes from honest talk.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on December 02, 2007, 12:12:51 AM
It would appear that a few threads from the earlier forum have resurfaced.

I see that Edwin, may God grant him many years for his labor of love, has been allowed to resume his posting of the daily Saints and Feasts and the older sticky was reinstated.

Additionally, 8 or 9 threads have been restored - including a thread in which Marduk discussess his decision to transfer from the Coptic Orthodox to Coptic Catholic Church. All of the others appear to be from a period of 10 days or so prior to the forum closure - except for one on iconography. It dates back to 2004 and includes a warning about Monastery Icons by John/prodromos, as well as one of the early versions of my link lists on icons.

I was kind of hoping that the thread in which a Latin described iconographic representations as "scary" would resurface. IIRC, that thread had a lot of good material in it; it was one of the threads that Joe was intending to add to the reference thread set.  I'm trying to check for restored threads in the NCR forum, but it's a bit thick for easy checking - never mind, just thought of checking for Father A or myself as posters in that forum.

Hmm, interesting - came up with several for me - but they were chiefly responses to queries people posted about various 'vagante', independent, and Old Catholic bodies. A few, however, were clearly about Eastern Catholicism - one was made to a thread begun by Hagia Sophia, asking about Rites, another to a thread begun by Father, regarding the Eastern roots of Pope John Paul II. Very strange - either those were leftovers from when the East was ghettoized there previously or the restoral process is very rough in its categorization.  Father has about 1150 there, but the 100 or so that I skimmed looked to be in threads that would never have been hosted in the old Eastern forum - some on Celtic Christianity, early church history, and other interests of the good Father.

Many years,

Neil

Yep! A few old threads have resurfaced and more are continuing to resurface in the new EC forum...The other change is that Joe Monahan and another "retired" moderator are off the list of moderators (not even listed as retired anymore...).
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on December 03, 2007, 06:45:57 AM
Yep! A few old threads have resurfaced and more are continuing to resurface in the new EC forum...The other change is that Joe Monahan and another "retired" moderator are off the list of moderators (not even listed as retired anymore...).

Sigh. But have you noticed the "side-effect"? I'm sure the dates they chose aren't accidental: puzzleannie just replied to Fr Ambrose's post from December 1... 2005!!! Who'll really believe Father is banned now? Who bothers to look at the full date of a post? I find this disturbing and think it's just part of the cover-up.

Danica

(who lived and protested under Milosevic which has been known to cloud her judgement and make her extremely paranoid at times)  :-\
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on December 03, 2007, 07:02:43 AM
The banning bears fruit.

Two messages from CAF Catholics who have made the decision to convert to Orthodoxy.
How these e-mails made it through the CAF system is a mystery.  Probably one of the Mother of God's miracles who wanted people to make contact and come into Orthodoxy.  Glory to God!

But someone at CAF must have learnt of these conversions and my Profile at CAF has been altered today and for Contact Information it reads:

Fr Ambrose has no contact information.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on December 03, 2007, 07:04:27 AM
(who lived and protested under Milosevic which has been known to cloud her judgement and make her extremely paranoid at times)  :-\
Were you one of the "Zene u crnom"?  How I admired those women!
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on December 03, 2007, 07:10:07 AM
*
Does anybody have any news of Padre Ambrogio in Turin?  Did he survive the Great November Purge?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: paradoxy on December 03, 2007, 07:28:08 AM
Were you one of the "Zene u crnom"?  How I admired those women!
Bless, Father!

No, I was just a kid back then (I was 14 at the time of the 1996/97 'marathon' protests in Belgrade), but I rarely missed a protest. I cut classes at school to be able to participate in protest walks  ;D

CAF tactics bring back the memories...  :-\
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on December 04, 2007, 01:02:12 AM
How these e-mails made it through the CAF system is a mystery.  Probably one of the Mother of God's miracles who wanted people to make contact and come into Orthodoxy.  Glory to God!

But someone at CAF must have learnt of these conversions and my Profile at CAF has been altered today and for Contact Information it reads:

Fr Ambrose has no contact information.


I received a couple of such messages.  Maybe I should clear out my email at CAF. :-[
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on December 04, 2007, 01:33:54 AM
*
Does anybody have any news of Padre Ambrogio in Turin?  Did he survive the Great November Purge?

I was wondering the same thing...His profile shows his last activity as November 11, and I haven't seen him around, so I would say he has also been banned :(

Anyone interested could try to contact him via his forum. If you need information on this, PM me.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on December 04, 2007, 01:34:43 AM
Sigh. But have you noticed the "side-effect"? I'm sure the dates they chose aren't accidental: puzzleannie just replied to Fr Ambrose's post from December 1... 2005!!! Who'll really believe Father is banned now? Who bothers to look at the full date of a post? I find this disturbing and think it's just part of the cover-up.

Danica

(who lived and protested under Milosevic which has been known to cloud her judgement and make her extremely paranoid at times)  :-\

Yes, I know... :'(

Fortunately, there are still some Orthodox floating around to correct misconceptions and I do too if I see any...There are also many people on CAF interested in Orthodoxy...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on December 04, 2007, 06:49:22 AM
How these e-mails made it through the CAF system is a mystery.  Probably one of the Mother of God's miracles who wanted people to make contact and come into Orthodoxy.  Glory to God!

But someone at CAF must have learnt of these conversions and my Profile at CAF has been altered today and for Contact Information it reads:

Fr Ambrose has no contact information.

Back to what it was - just sent you a test msg
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on December 04, 2007, 06:54:30 AM
I was wondering the same thing...His profile shows his last activity as November 11, and I haven't seen him around, so I would say he has also been banned :(

Anyone interested could try to contact him via his forum. If you need information on this, PM me.

With all due respect to my beloved Hibernian friend from next door to  own under, ... and by what I say below, I mean to offer no justification to CAF's banning of him, but ...

the banning of Padre Ambrogio would be the most indefensible thing they could ever conceive of doing - the man has never posted a harsh word nor anything that anyone could perceive as unacceptable.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Alexius on December 04, 2007, 06:12:31 PM
With all due respect to my beloved Hibernian friend from next door to  own under, ... and by what I say below, I mean to offer no justification to CAF's banning of him, but ...

the banning of Padre Ambrogio would be the most indefensible thing they could ever conceive of doing - the man has never posted a harsh word nor anything that anyone could perceive as unacceptable.

Many years,

Neil

I can attest that I never heard him say anything harsh... :(
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Papa Gregorio on December 04, 2007, 06:14:59 PM
I know that the irenic Padre Ambrogio has had far too much work in the past few months to find the time to post on CAF.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Padre Ambrogio on December 04, 2007, 09:12:47 PM
My dear brethren,

the irenic Padre Ambrogio (:-\) has indeed been away from the fray until today, due to a combination of ill health, parish burdens and not a little amount of personal laziness... about which your prayers will be very effective, and are gratefully accepted!

Many thanks to Bob (Orthodoc) who de-briefed me of all the recent happenings, and who let me partake of this good - albeit sad - gathering of old hearts. Just by reading your words I realized how much I was missing you all.  :'(

Let me state for the benefit of general peace that I have not been banned. At least, I see that I can still post replies... not that this leaves me with a great propension to do so.

The way you have been treated by CAF leaves me so deeply disgusted, that I perceived myself reacting in all but irenic ways. But I am willing to hear your suggestions, and to make use of the means at my disposal (including the still extant CAF membership... to the point of cyber-martyrdom, if needed) in order to bring some measure of justice.

Do remember that our postings were means of enrichment, good publicity and wealth to CAF. At least, they were marketed as such in order to reach a wider public. So there are positive actions that we are at least entitled to require from the CAF staff. Perhaps the one who deserves such compensation more than anybody is Joe Monahan.

Looking forward to your proposals,

sinful hieromonk Ambrogio



Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Jakub on December 04, 2007, 10:52:22 PM
Welcome Padre,

Looking forward to your participation here...

james, happy member of the Catholic minority...
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: BigFatGreekDaddy on December 05, 2007, 12:09:18 AM
Padre Bless-

We have not interacted in a while at the CAF;  however, I simply wanted to say Hello, and wish you many blessings heading into the Christmas feast.
It is good to hear from you on this wonderful site.

formerly:

icxc.nika
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Melkite on December 05, 2007, 05:21:06 AM
Bless Padre,

It is indeed wonderful to see a post from "the other Ambrose". My prayers for your health, your work, and you, dear friend. You've been missed these months past over there - even before my brethren were so sadly evicted. I'll let Joe know that I've seen a post from you (and your kind words about him), as I know that he had expressed concern to both your elder brother in holy orders and to myself about your well-being.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on December 05, 2007, 05:49:44 AM
gathering of old hearts. Just by reading your words I realized how much I was missing you all.  :'(
And how much we have missed you too, and prayed for you.

It is so good to hear your voice again and we all hope you will find time to contribute messages when you have time.

Your brother in Christ, ieromonaco Ambrogio irlandese
(http://www.emotihost.com/glass/2.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on December 05, 2007, 06:06:04 AM
Welcome back Fr. Ambrogio!

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on December 05, 2007, 07:04:24 AM
Welcome back Fr. Ambrogio!




Same here ,,,welcome Father Ambrogio ...stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Mickey on December 05, 2007, 11:10:41 AM
Bless Padre,

My prayers are with you as you struggle through the trials of physical and spiritual warfare. Your posts at CAF were a true blessing for me and my family during our journey to the Holy Orthodox Church.

Kissing your right hand,
Mickey

Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Paradosis on December 05, 2007, 11:24:32 PM
Padre Ambrogio, bless

It's nice to see you here.  Your posts on CAF were an inspiration to me also.  :)  I look forward to seeing more of them here when you have time to post.  I will remember your parish responsibilities in my daily prayers.

God bless,

Adam
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: stashko on December 05, 2007, 11:33:08 PM
Padre Ambrogio, bless

It's nice to see you here.  Your posts on CAF were an inspiration to me also.  :)  I look forward to seeing more of them here when you have time to post.  I will remember your parish responsibilities in my daily prayers.

God bless,

Adam


Brother ; do you still post at  the other place  caf .......stashko
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: maqhth on December 06, 2007, 12:53:38 AM
My Profile at CAF has been altered today and for Contact Information it reads:

Fr Ambrose has no contact information.


Good Grief!

Inventing more and more lies...

They must see themselves as in a war and their Church under attack, so that ANY actions in defense of the See of Peter, even if of lies and deceptions, are perfectly justified...  Except for plain choosing evil, which I cannot bring myself to believe of them, this is the only understanding that makes sense of otherwise reasonably good folks doing such wrong things...

Arsenios
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: BigFatGreekDaddy on December 06, 2007, 01:43:28 AM
Good Grief!

Inventing more and more lies...

They must see themselves as in a war and their Church under attack, so that ANY actions in defense of the See of Peter, even if of lies and deceptions, are perfectly justified...  Except for plain choosing evil, which I cannot bring myself to believe of them, this is the only understanding that makes sense of otherwise reasonably good folks doing such wrong things...

Arsenios

Ouch!

The truth hurts.
They are bleeding from the nose.

It only hurts us because we invested so much time with them.
Very sad indeed.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ozgeorge on December 06, 2007, 02:12:01 AM
It only hurts us because we invested so much time with them.
Which you could have invested in helping to build up an Orthodox forum.....<cough>
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Padre Ambrogio on December 06, 2007, 03:54:24 AM
Which you could have invested in helping to build up an Orthodox forum.....<cough>
;D

A good encouragement for us to stay here!

However, it was not at all a wasted effort:

- it brought us all together (no small feat);

- it was instrumental to bring about some precious conversions to Holy Orthodoxy (of which the "convert issues" section of this forum may benefit in due course);

- It remains as a standing witness that the path of dialogue is still going on at an individual level, yet it is often manipulated and subjected to abuses of power. A good lesson for the times to come.

In Christ,

hieromonk Ambrogio


PS. Thanks to all for the very warm welcome!  :-*
Any ideas about how to give my contribution to the bannees' cause?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on December 06, 2007, 04:50:49 AM
- it was instrumental to bring about some precious conversions to Holy Orthodoxy (of which the "convert issues" section of this forum may benefit in due course)
At your service, dear Father and Brother.

I have started a thread Conversions to Orthodoxy
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13793.msg192429.html#msg192429
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on December 06, 2007, 04:57:52 AM
Which you could have invested in helping to build up an Orthodox forum.....<cough>
*
I don't think that many of us were aware of the existence of OC.net.  I was invited onto CAF by a Catholic friend who told me that my parochial school knowledge of contemporary Catholicism was totally out of date.  And of course there soon developed the adrenalin thrill of debating with Catholics.  I hope there are lots of Catholics here so that we may enjoy the apologetics again. (http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif) Where's my shillelagh?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on December 06, 2007, 06:01:00 AM
Dear Hesychios-Michael,

I see that you have Account under Review under your name.  Is this a new punishment?(http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/whipping/4.gif) I thought that you were cleared to post?  Since you are one of the most gentlemanly posters on CAF I cannot imagine what your sin was! (http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/crying/6.gif)
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: ialmisry on December 06, 2007, 06:26:50 AM
Dear Hesychios-Michael,

I see that you have Account under Review under your name.  Is this a new punishment?(http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/whipping/4.gif) I thought that you were cleared to post?  Since you are one of the most gentlemanly posters on CAF I cannot imagine what your sin was! (http://www.emotihost.com/ver1/crying/6.gif)

I didn't see that under his name.  I was just reading his post comparing the Vatican II spirit and other such things to the comment "that's a nice toupee you have."  ROFLF.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on December 06, 2007, 07:07:37 AM
I didn't see that under his name.
*
You're right.  It's gone now.  Or was I hallucinating?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on December 06, 2007, 08:32:33 AM
*
I don't think that many of us were aware of the existence of OC.net.  I was invited onto CAF by a Catholic friend who told me that my parochial school knowledge of contemporary Catholicism was totally out of date.  And of course there soon developed the adrenalin thrill of debating with Catholics.  I hope there are lots of Catholics here so that we may enjoy the apologetics again. (http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif) Where's my shillelagh?


I'm game, now that my exams are over (as of Wed the 5th Dec).  ;D

We've GOT to do something about that parochial knowledge.  ::)

In Jesus Christ,
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Irish Hermit on December 06, 2007, 08:53:24 AM
I'm game, now that my exams are over (as of Wed the 5th Dec).  ;D

We've GOT to do something about that parochial knowledge.  ::)
*
It was those wildly eccentric Catholic nuns?  How were we kids supposed to know they were stark raving bonkers, teaching us about Limbo and Saint Brigid being ordained a bishop?   :o
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Magicsilence on December 06, 2007, 10:54:30 AM
*
It was those wildly eccentric Catholic nuns?  How were we kids supposed to know they were stark raving bonkers, teaching us about Limbo and Saint Brigid being ordained a bishop?   :o

You poor thing! How did you ever survive?  :laugh:
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on December 06, 2007, 02:29:18 PM
- it was instrumental to bring about some precious conversions to Holy Orthodoxy (of which the "convert issues" section of this forum may benefit in due course)

What started me on the path was seeing that Orthodox had very good, very solid historically sound answers to give to Catholics when their beliefs were asked about or challenged.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Joab Anias on December 06, 2007, 02:31:51 PM
What started me on the path was seeing that Orthodox had very good, very solid historically sound answers to give to Catholics when their beliefs were asked about or challenged.

Lol. They are called polemics.
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: wynd on December 06, 2007, 02:39:10 PM
Lol. They are called polemics.

And what do you call Catholic arguments?
Title: Re: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion
Post by: Anastasios on December 06, 2007, 02:59:32 PM