OrthodoxChristianity.net

Moderated Forums => Liturgy => Topic started by: authio on October 19, 2007, 01:01:56 PM

Title: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: authio on October 19, 2007, 01:01:56 PM
Hi all,

I heard that if a couple has a civil wedding prior to the Christian wedding, that the Christian wedding is only the crowning.  True?

Authio


Edit: I took the format tags out of the title line, since they weren't working. - Cleveland
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: Fr. George on October 19, 2007, 01:06:30 PM
Hi all,

I heard that if a couple has a civil wedding prior to the Christian wedding, that the Christian wedding is only the crowning.  True? 

Hmmm.  Are you referring to a situation where a couple gets their civil marriage months or years before their Christian wedding, or do you mean that they got their civil marriage a few days before?

I would suppose that the answer would make a difference in how one would answer the original question, since I know of priests who would not do the full wedding service if a couple had been civilly married and cohabitating before their Church wedding.

IIRC, before the Church was given sole responsibility for marriage in the Empire, couples did indeed have to get a civil marriage before their church one, at least if they wanted them to be legal and all.
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: Elisha on October 19, 2007, 01:17:09 PM
In many European countries, couples are required to have a civil ceremony before any religious ceremony.
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: Starlight on November 01, 2007, 09:17:10 PM
In Ukraine during Communist times, the service of wedding remained identical regardless of the conditions. It has not been amended later. In 1960-1980, due to various reasons some people had even a Church wedding, and a civil wedding could follow much later. But those cases were rare. Overall, because of persecutions, public Church weddings were not that common. Instead, often such services (as well as Baptisms) were served behind closed doors of a church. Upon destruction of Communism (and in some cases even prior to that) some people had the Church wedding even 20+ after the civil wedding, and they could be even Atheists at the time of the start of their marriage.
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: ozgeorge on November 02, 2007, 04:56:04 AM
Australian Law no longer recognises non-civil marriages. A marriage certificate issued by a religious celebrant no longer has any legal authority- the couple must be civilly married or obtain a civil marriage registration certificate. This is now considered an essential element of separation of Church and State.
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: Entscheidungsproblem on November 02, 2007, 11:29:29 AM
In many European countries, couples are required to have a civil ceremony before any religious ceremony.

In Italy, unless you are Roman Catholic and having a Roman Catholic wedding ceremony, I know this is the case.
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: Heorhij on November 02, 2007, 11:48:00 AM
In Ukraine during Communist times, the service of wedding remained identical regardless of the conditions. It has not been amended later. In 1960-1980, due to various reasons some people had even a Church wedding, and a civil wedding could follow much later. But those cases were rare. Overall, because of persecutions, public Church weddings were not that common. Instead, often such services (as well as Baptisms) were served behind closed doors of a church. Upon destruction of Communism (and in some cases even prior to that) some people had the Church wedding even 20+ after the civil wedding, and they could be even Atheists at the time of the start of their marriage.

My wife and I will celebrate our 25-th anniversary next July. We still aren't wed in church. :(
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: BasilCan on November 02, 2007, 03:33:48 PM
My convert, priest friend was "betrothed and crowned" before he was ordained deacon, even though he and his wife had been married for several years before hand (in his Episcopal church) and had children. Greeks do this and Bishop JOSEPH and BASIL of the Antiochian (and maybe other Bishops) encourage this.

Thus, the marriage service is normally done altogether even if one was married in a civil service. Now remember, in most churches, if one is married outside the church and do not have a marriage service inside the church, they technically excommunicate themselves from the church and can only reenter the sacraments of the church if they agree to be married inside the church (betrothed and crowned) or confess (particularly if they marry a non-Christian or their spouse will not agree to be married in the church).

So, Heorhij, if you were Orthodox when you were married, you is busted!!! If you were not, depending on your jurisdiction, you are either accepted as a couple "as is" or you need to be married properly!!!!!

Basil
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: pensateomnia on November 02, 2007, 03:55:36 PM
So, Heorhij, if you were Orthodox when you were married, you is busted!!! If you were not, depending on your jurisdiction, you are either accepted as a couple "as is" or you need to be married properly!!!!!

We've already discussed this in a previous thread. There are several unique pastoral issues involved. Ultimately, questions of marriage (or remarriage) are decided by the Bishop.
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: Heorhij on November 02, 2007, 04:17:28 PM

So, Heorhij, if you were Orthodox when you were married, you is busted!!! If you were not, depending on your jurisdiction, you are either accepted as a couple "as is" or you need to be married properly!!!!!

Basil

I was not an Orthodox when I married - my parents did not even bother to baptize me. My wife was an Orthodox (she was baptized and chrismated Orthodox as an infant), but she never attended but one church service in her entire life until many years after we married. It was the USSR...

Now, I do realize that I have to be married properly in church, but my wife does not want to hear about it...
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: rayoncena on June 17, 2010, 09:01:03 AM
I have seen in many cultures that before going for a Christian wedding they go for Civil wedding and the reason behind this is to meets the state’s necessary legal requirements and nothing more than that.
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: WetCatechumen on June 17, 2010, 05:43:03 PM
This is interesting. A friend of mine was married Sunday (by a Protestant pastor), but he is being received into the Orthodox Church, chrismated, and receiving his first Holy Communion this Sunday. He will be married in the Orthodox Church two weeks from this Sunday. I have wondered how his priest was handling it. As far as I know, they plan to live together as husband and wife (and presumably are at this minute).
Title: Re: Christian Wedding after Civil Wedding
Post by: arimethea on June 18, 2010, 07:10:19 AM
With new security requirements for travel in the US it is becoming more common place to have a civil marriage a couple of months before the church wedding in order to begin the process of securing the right documents. In these cases the civil marriage exist only on paper to allow name changes and passport updates. The real wedding takes place in the church with the full ceremony and no ones differently except the bride, the groom and the priest since no civil certificate needs to be signed.