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Foreign Language Forums => Slavic Languages => Topic started by: Robert on May 23, 2003, 02:41:17 PM

Title: Ukrainian??
Post by: Robert on May 23, 2003, 02:41:17 PM
-ƒ-Ç-+-¦-¦-é!

<ducks bullets>

Anyone have any good recommendations on books for learning Ukrainian?? Is Ukrainian really -ç-â-ê-î??

My Russian knowledge is decent, but I wanted to embark on a little creative Ukrainian learning.

There seems to be a lack of books in the English language on learning this exotic slavic tongue.

-í-+-¦-ü-+-¦-+.
Bobby
Title: Re:Ukrainian??
Post by: TonyS on May 23, 2003, 03:04:34 PM
Bobby,

-Ñ-Ç-û-ü-é-+-ü -Æ-+-ü-¦-Ç-¦-ü!

I did a search on www.amazon.com for "Ukrainian language" and came up with 339 results.  You might want to check that out.

Tony
Title: Re:Ukrainian??
Post by: Linus7 on May 23, 2003, 09:05:16 PM
-ƒ-Ç-+-¦-¦-é!

<ducks bullets>

Anyone have any good recommendations on books for learning Ukrainian?? Is Ukrainian really -ç-â-ê-î??

My Russian knowledge is decent, but I wanted to embark on a little creative Ukrainian learning.

There seems to be a lack of books in the English language on learning this exotic slavic tongue.

-í-+-¦-ü-+-¦-+.
Bobby

Here (http://www.ukrainebride.com) is a helpful little site you might want to try.  ;)

I cannot think of a better or more enjoyable way to learn Ukrainian.  ;D
Title: Re:Ukrainian??
Post by: Anastasios on May 24, 2003, 10:47:11 AM
Robert,

Colloquial Ukrainian published by Routledge should help. Has cassettes.

anastasios
Title: Re:Ukrainian??
Post by: The young fogey on May 24, 2003, 12:57:24 PM
-ö-+-Ç-+-¦-+-¦ -¦-Ç-â-¦ -¦ -Ñ-Ç-+-ü-é-¦, -+-¦-¦-Ç-é,

-Æ’-+-ê-â -+-¦-¦-ü-î -+-+--Ç-â-ü-ü-¦-+ -+-+-é-+-+-â, -ç-é-+ -ì-é-¦ -+-¦-+-¦-¦ - -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-¦ -ì-é-+-¦-+ (-+ -â-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-ü-¦-+-¦, -ü-¦-Ç-¦-ü-¦-+-¦, -¦-+-+-î-¦-¦-Ç-ü-¦-+-¦, -é.-¦.), -¦-¦? -ÿ -Ã… -ü-¦-+ -+-¦ -+-+-¦-â -+-+-ü-¦-é-î -Ã -+-Ç-+-ê-+ -+-¦ -â-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-ü-¦-+-+ -Ã…-+-ï-¦-¦.  :)

-» -é-+-¦-¦ -Ç-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦-+-¦-â-Ä -é-¦-¦-¦ Colloquial Ukrainian -+ -+-ç-¦-+-î -à -+-Ç-+-ê-â-Ä -¦-+-+-¦-â, Teach Yourself Ukrainian.
Title: Re:Ukrainian??
Post by: Robert on May 24, 2003, 01:29:40 PM
-í-+-¦-ü-+-¦-+, -í-¦-Ç-¦.

Po6ept
Title: Re:Ukrainian??
Post by: Mudriy on May 24, 2003, 04:31:55 PM
That Colloqiual Ukrainian is OK. I have the Cds and book and it actually has some good Ukrainian lessons and word usage, however, there is a lot of Russian influence since it is modern Ukrainian. It seems to be written for the Maerican who will be moving and living in Ukraine. It should be easy for the person who has backround in Russian because they use a lot of Russian, unfourtantly. The people on the Cds sound Russian and khav zee Rashyn aksents on da verds dey yuz layk dey yuz da kharrrd "g" an da"ye" an "yi" vere dey shood nat bee. :p

I suggest anything from Canada or the Havard Ukrainian Studies. They will have the more Ukrainianized Ukrainian books.

And Bobby, its Dyakuyu :-)
Title: Re:Ukrainian??
Post by: The young fogey on May 24, 2003, 05:21:25 PM
-£-+-+-¦-¦-ü-é-¦-+ -â-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-ü-¦-+-¦-+ -+-¦-Ç-+-¦-¦ -¦-+-¦-+-Ç-Å-é -é-¦-¦ - -¦-¦-Å-é-¦-+-î-+-+ -¦-+-¦-+-Ç-Å-é -+-+--Ç-â-ü-ü-¦-+. -ó-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-¦-+-+ -Ç-¦-¦-+-+ -¦-+-¦-+-Ç-+-é -+-+--â-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-ü-¦-+ -¦-¦-¦ -í-ì-Ç-ä-¦-Ç--Ä-¦ (-ü -+-+-+-+-+-¦-+ -Ç-â-ü-ü-¦-ï-+-+ -ü-+-+-¦-¦-+-+) - -+-¦ -Ä-¦-+-+--+-¦-+-¦-¦-+-ï-¦ (-ô-¦-+-+-ç -+ -ù-¦-¦-¦-Ç-+-¦-é-ü-¦-¦-Å -+-¦-+-¦-ü-é-î).
Title: Re:Ukrainian??
Post by: KO63AP on August 07, 2003, 04:37:51 PM
-æ-Ç-¦-é-¦ -+-¦-¦-Ç-é,
     -ö-+-¦-+-ü-î -¦ www.yevshan.com.

-É-+-¦-Ç-û-¦
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: Ioan on December 17, 2004, 06:00:22 AM
-¥-â -à -û-¦-¦ -¦ -é-¦-¦ -+-+-¦-+-¦ -+-¦-+-+-¦-¦-é-+ -â-¦-Ç-¦-ù-+-ü-î-¦-â - -ç-â-ê-î? :(
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: Leeza on March 21, 2007, 10:39:32 AM

Hi.

You might find this link helpful.

I have just started teaching the Ukrainian language to English speaking children, ages 7 - 11. 

Considering you speak some Russian you should have no trouble picking up Ukrainian.  The English-only speakers have difficulty with some of the grammar, such as items having "genders" and corresponding adjective/pronoun endings.

Good luck.  Let me know if I can be of any assistance.  I would be happy to email you the worksheets that I have made for my class.

Try this link:
http://www.ukma.kiev.ua/pub/courses/UFL/

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: Heorhij on November 18, 2007, 05:11:51 PM
Robert, just in case, I am a native Ukrainian speaker, too. Please use me if you need any help. --George/Heorhij
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: stashko on November 18, 2007, 09:03:28 PM
Robert, just in case, I am a native Ukrainian speaker, too. Please use me if you need any help. --George/Heorhij


Brother is George pronounced Heorhij in ukrainian and russian ,,just curious ,,if not how is it pronounced  ...stashko

на сербски језик ђорђе [george]  i don't think that the russian or the ukrainian have this letter  [   ђ    ] in their azbuka
alphabet  or do you....stashko
Title: Re:Ukrainian??
Post by: stashko on November 18, 2007, 09:15:10 PM
-ö-+-Ç-+-¦-+-¦ -¦-Ç-â-¦ -¦ -Ñ-Ç-+-ü-é-¦, -á-+-¦-¦-Ç-é,

-Æ’-+-ê-â -+-¦-¦-ü-î -+-+--Ç-â-ü-ü-¦-+ -+-+-é-+-+-â, -ç-é-+ -ì-é-¦ -+-¦-+-¦-¦ - -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-¦ -ì-é-+-¦-+ (-+ -â-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-ü-¦-+-¦, -ü-¦-Ç-¦-ü-¦-+-¦, -¦-+-+-î-¦-¦-Ç-ü-¦-+-¦, -é.-¦.), -¦-¦? -ÿ -Ã… -ü-¦-+ -+-¦ -+-+-¦-â -+-+-ü-¦-é-î -Ã -+-Ç-+-ê-+ -+-¦ -â-¦-Ç-¦-+-+-ü-¦-+-+ -Ã…-+-ï-¦-¦.  :)

-» -é-+-¦-¦ -Ç-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦-+-¦-â-Ä -é-¦-¦-¦ Colloquial Ukrainian -+ -+-ç-¦-+-î -à -+-Ç-+-ê-â-Ä -¦-+-+-¦-â, Teach Yourself Ukrainian.





What is all this above can't read almost any of it ...  secret coded language or some thing.....stashko ???
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: Heorhij on November 18, 2007, 09:19:52 PM
Brother Stashko,

Yes, in Ukrainian it's Heorhij. The Russian language, indeed, does not have the "h" sound, but the Ukrainian language does.

Russians very often transliterate "h" as either "g" or "kh" ("x"), creating a lot of confusion. For example, they say and write, "Okla*kh*oma." Ukrainian immigrants, mocking those Russians who say and write "Oklakhoma," even composed a funny poem about it. In Ukrainian, it goes like this:

"Zvuku "kh" u movi anhlijs'kij nema,
Tozh khaij bude vsim tse vidomo,
Shcho prozhyve bez Oklahomy Khoma,
I bez Khomy Oklahoma."

("There is no "kh" sound in English, so let the whole world know that Oklahoma will survive without Khoma ("Thomas" in Ukrainian, indeed with the "kh" sound), and Khoma will survive without Oklahoma.")

Russians also say and write "Gitler" (meaning Hitler), "Khaidegger" (meining Heidegger), etc.

Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: stashko on November 18, 2007, 09:43:15 PM
Brother Stashko,

Yes, in Ukrainian it's Heorhij. The Russian language, indeed, does not have the "h" sound, but the Ukrainian language does.

Russians very often transliterate "h" as either "g" or "kh" ("x"), creating a lot of confusion. For example, they say and write, "Okla*kh*oma." Ukrainian immigrants, mocking those Russians who say and write "Oklakhoma," even composed a funny poem about it. In Ukrainian, it goes like this:

"Zvuku "kh" u movi anhlijs'kij nema,
Tozh khaij bude vsim tse vidomo,
Shcho prozhyve bez Oklahomy Khoma,
I bez Khomy Oklahoma."

("There is no "kh" sound in English, so let the whole world know that Oklahoma will survive without Khoma ("Thomas" in Ukrainian, indeed with the "kh" sound), and Khoma will survive without Oklahoma.")

Russians also say and write "Gitler" (meaning Hitler), "Khaidegger" (meining Heidegger), etc.





The letter [ ђ    ]  in serbian it isn't a H sound  ,i don't know how it's written in english  though...if i was to write devil [ђаво] this is how ..
brat.. stashko [stanislav]    also brother i wanted to ask since russia and ukrain use the same alphabet and it' s Cyrillic ,,couldn't they just say and write  for hitler  [ хитлер ] ..... станислав.....сташко

Another question is ukrainia and russia considering  writing with the latin alphabet  in there languages...do either one use latin  now....serbs use both .....
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: Heorhij on November 19, 2007, 04:33:43 PM
Stashko, is this letter pronounced as "ch?"

As for the Latin alphabet in Ukraine or Russia, no, I don't think it was ever discussed.
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: stashko on November 19, 2007, 07:38:09 PM
Stashko, is this letter pronounced as "ch?"

As for the Latin alphabet in Ukraine or Russia, no, I don't think it was ever discussed.
Brate:
_gh or jh_ sound i don't even know if thats right ...probably another serb can answer it better ...Mir Bozhi ...brother stashko
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: stashko on November 19, 2007, 07:47:01 PM
Brother Stashko,

Yes, in Ukrainian it's Heorhij. The Russian language, indeed, does not have the "h" sound, but the Ukrainian language does.

Russians very often transliterate "h" as either "g" or "kh" ("x"), creating a lot of confusion. For example, they say and write, "Okla*kh*oma." Ukrainian immigrants, mocking those Russians who say and write "Oklakhoma," even composed a funny poem about it. In Ukrainian, it goes like this:

"Zvuku "kh" u movi anhlijs'kij nema,
Tozh khaij bude vsim tse vidomo,
Shcho prozhyve bez Oklahomy Khoma,
I bez Khomy Oklahoma."

("There is no "kh" sound in English, so let the whole world know that Oklahoma will survive without Khoma ("Thomas" in Ukrainian, indeed with the "kh" sound), and Khoma will survive without Oklahoma.")

Russians also say and write "Gitler" (meaning Hitler), "Khaidegger" (meining Heidegger), etc.




Brother i allway thought  the Cyrillic- X -was the H sound ,,for example  Христос ,dont the russian write it the same as the serbs....stashko
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: Νεκτάριος on November 19, 2007, 08:15:30 PM
The different Cyrillic alphabets aren't universal between the different languages that use them.

ћ = similar to "ch", but there are two slightly different "ch" sounds in Serbian ћ/ć and ч/č
ђ = Russian "дж"
џ is similar to "дж" and isn't that frequent in Slavic words, but is in Turkish borrowings
х = about the English "h" or Ukrainian "г" and not the East Slavic "х"
љ= Russian "ль"
њ= Russian "нь"
j = Russian "й"


In Serbian there is no: я, ю, э, й, ё, ь, ъ, щ 
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: stashko on November 19, 2007, 08:59:07 PM
The different Cyrillic alphabets aren't universal between the different languages that use them.

ћ = similar to "ch", but there are two slightly different "ch" sounds in Serbian ћ/ć and ч/č
ђ = Russian "дж"
џ is similar to "дж" and isn't that frequent in Slavic words, but is in Turkish borrowings
х = about the English "h" or Ukrainian "г" and not the East Slavic "х"
љ= Russian "ль"
њ= Russian "нь"
j = Russian "й"

Please explain the two ch
In Serbian there is no: я, ю, э, й, ё, ь, ъ, щ 

Brother
Please explain  ч   ћ  to me they sound the same ,i don't hear any differences in them  the word - чича  - is it spelled this way or this way - ћића  or this way  чића- or this way ћича   these two letters really confuse me то no end ,is one silent and the other  long, or lets say soft and hard sound   this letter i have no problem  with   -џ - dz .....stashko
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: Starlight on November 19, 2007, 09:28:39 PM
I am also a native speaker of Ukrainian, so if I can help anyhow, I will be happy to do so. Please just let me know.
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: Νεκτάριος on November 19, 2007, 09:41:10 PM
Brother
Please explain  ч   ћ  to me they sound the same ,i don't hear any differences in them  the word - чича  - is it spelled this way or this way - ћића  or this way  чића- or this way ћича   these two letters really confuse me то no end ,is one silent and the other  long, or lets say soft and hard sound   this letter i have no problem  with   -џ - dz .....stashko

It is kind of hard to explain in writing, but it is a matter of where the tongue is placed when making the sound.  Although the merging of the two sounds is common across the Yugoslav diaspora.  Your best bet is finding someone who lived in the Former Yugoslavia for all of their educational years and observing the position of their tongue and teeth when they make each sound. 
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: stashko on November 19, 2007, 10:35:56 PM
I am also a native speaker of Ukrainian, so if I can help anyhow, I will be happy to do so. Please just let me know.

Are you familiar with this one- ћ - i know you have this one -ч-  if you know the difference in sounds between the two please by all means   ,,,stashko
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: stashko on November 19, 2007, 10:39:53 PM
It is kind of hard to explain in writing, but it is a matter of where the tongue is placed when making the sound.  Although the merging of the two sounds is common across the Yugoslav diaspora.  Your best bet is finding someone who lived in the Former Yugoslavia for all of their educational years and observing the position of their tongue and teeth when they make each sound. 

Thanks Brother : i was hoping  you were going to solve my confusion ,,,over the similar sounding letters ...mir stashko
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: Heorhij on November 19, 2007, 10:49:49 PM
About the "ch" sound... The authentic Ukrainian "ch" is very much like "tsh," the tongue touching the hard palate and the front teeth with a gap between the uppper and the lower jaw; on the other hand, the true Russian (and, unfortunalely, the Russified Ukrainian) pronounciation of this sound is more like the English "G" in George, but without the "voice" in it, the front teeth together (a "soft" "ch"). Is this also the case with the two different "ch" sounds in Serbian?
Title: Re: Ukrainian??
Post by: Νεκτάριος on November 20, 2007, 12:20:03 AM
It is similar to Polish ci vs. cz if that helps any (I figure the Ukrainians may have encountered the odd Pole or two).  I know there are recordings of these online somewhere... If I could just remember where.