OrthodoxChristianity.net

Moderated Forums => Liturgy => Western Rite Discussion => Topic started by: scamandrius on August 04, 2007, 01:52:36 PM

Title: Are women permitted to be altar servers in western rite Orthodox
Post by: scamandrius on August 04, 2007, 01:52:36 PM
I came across this vide from St. Paul Antiochian Western Rite Orthodox Church in Houston.  http://www.stpaulsorthodox.org/movie/SaintPaul.wmv  After watching it, I thought I saw women who were serving as altar servers.  Now I realize that this has been a fashion for other "Western Rite" groups such as Lutherans, Anglicans and even Roman Catholics.  So, if any Western Rite Orthodox would care to chime in and reveal whether such a practice is permissible.  And, if anyone from the Eastern Rite could clarify whether only men are permitted to serve behind the altar, save for in cloisters where women have to perform some of those duties, I'd appreciate it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Are women permitted to be altar servers in western rite Orthodox
Post by: Aristibule on August 04, 2007, 02:27:12 PM
I came across this vide from St. Paul Antiochian Western Rite Orthodox Church in Houston. 

No - absolutely not permitted.

 In the video from St. Paul's, those aren't women - the man with long hair there is very much a man. That video and the misperception of some in it as women has been discussed on other forums, though you aren't the first to misidentify the participants. Members of that mission have had to clear it up as well.
Title: Re: Are women permitted to be altar servers in western rite Orthodox
Post by: Αριστοκλής on August 04, 2007, 02:54:03 PM

 In the video from St. Paul's, those aren't women - the man with long hair there is very much a man. That video and the misperception of some in it as women has been discussed on other forums, though you aren't the first to misidentify the participants. Members of that mission have had to clear it up as well.

Er...haircut?
Title: Re: Are women permitted to be altar servers in western rite Orthodox
Post by: Aristibule on August 04, 2007, 04:18:00 PM
It's a ponytail - and yes, men in the West have them as well, it isn't just Eastern.  ;D Really, I prefer medieval shoulder length hair (like Isildur in the Lord of the Rings.) Unfortunately, I've got a soldier's haircut at this time - growing it out isn't possible. I've had to take our family maternal leave to grow out my beard (a sort of 19th c. Irish/Mennonite look.)
Title: Re: Are women permitted to be altar servers in western rite Orthodox
Post by: Thomas on August 04, 2007, 05:09:32 PM
That was indeed a man with the ponytail.There are some women in that video in  robe and surplice, however, I have been advised by friends there that they are choir members. As do many western rite churches following their traditions they robe their choir members in cassock and surplice.

Thomas
Title: Re: Are women permitted to be altar servers in western rite Orthodox
Post by: Simayan on August 04, 2007, 11:06:54 PM
Are women allowed to serve in a church liturgy so long as they stay outside of the altar? Such as during complicated Pascha services? I'm pretty sure I've seen some videos..
Title: Re: Are women permitted to be altar servers in western rite Orthodox
Post by: Aristibule on August 04, 2007, 11:22:24 PM
Are women allowed to serve in a church liturgy so long as they stay outside of the altar? Such as during complicated Pascha services? I'm pretty sure I've seen some videos..

No - to be a server at all, one must be male in the Western rite. Choirs may be mixed, but if they are not male cannot enter the chancel or altar (depending on how the Church is set up.) Pascha services in the West are not all that complicated, but still - we don't do women servers. That would be the normal servers and Deacon for all the services in the Triduum.
Title: Re: Are women permitted to be altar servers in western rite Orthodox
Post by: ialmisry on November 13, 2007, 07:53:03 AM
No - to be a server at all, one must be male in the Western rite. Choirs may be mixed, but if they are not male cannot enter the chancel or altar (depending on how the Church is set up.) Pascha services in the West are not all that complicated, but still - we don't do women servers. That would be the normal servers and Deacon for all the services in the Triduum.

And what are male choir doing there?

All the ordained are men, but not all men are ordained. Possession of a Y chromosome is not a back stage pass to the altar.
Title: Re: Are women permitted to be altar servers in western rite Orthodox
Post by: Didymus on November 13, 2007, 10:19:46 AM
My browser can't find the page: http://www.stpaulsorthodox.org/movie/SaintPaul.wmv (http://www.stpaulsorthodox.org/movie/SaintPaul.wmv) ???

Has it been moved? Can't find it via http://www.stpaulsorthodox.org (http://www.stpaulsorthodox.org) either unless it's the one on the main page and from what has been said I don't think that it is.

Say please, do the Western Rite separate men and women to either side of the Church during the Holy Liturgy?
If not, would somebody please let me know why?
Title: Re: Are women permitted to be altar servers in western rite Orthodox
Post by: Reader KevinAndrew on November 18, 2007, 08:56:34 PM
My browser can't find the page: http://www.stpaulsorthodox.org/movie/SaintPaul.wmv (http://www.stpaulsorthodox.org/movie/SaintPaul.wmv) ???

Has it been moved? Can't find it via http://www.stpaulsorthodox.org (http://www.stpaulsorthodox.org) either unless it's the one on the main page and from what has been said I don't think that it is.

Say please, do the Western Rite separate men and women to either side of the Church during the Holy Liturgy?
If not, would somebody please let me know why?

No parishes in the Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate do, as far as I know. I don't see many parishes outside of ROCOOR ones seperate men and women either.

As far as why they don't do it, I'm not sure.