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Moderated Forums => Oriental Orthodox Discussion => Topic started by: Salpy on February 13, 2007, 09:22:40 PM

Title: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 13, 2007, 09:22:40 PM
Tomorrow, Feb. 14, is Presentation Day in the Armenian Church.  Actually, it starts tonight so I am going to church in a little while.  It's a nice service.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: surajiype on February 14, 2007, 01:09:46 AM
Salpy,

In the West Syrian and Indian traditions the presentation of the Lord is celebrated
on the 2nd of Feb, again a very good service. It is i think a fixed feast
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 14, 2008, 01:59:18 AM
Happy Presentation Day!
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: PeterTheAleut on February 14, 2008, 02:34:01 AM
Blessed feast to you, Salpy! ;D
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Amdetsion on February 14, 2008, 10:18:16 PM
Tomorrow, Feb. 14, is Presentation Day in the Armenian Church.  Actually, it starts tonight so I am going to church in a little while.  It's a nice service.

Blessed feast my brother!

I love this celebration. It brings so much Orthodoxy forward.

I thought we all were the same date?

Ethiopia and Egypt are together on the Feb. 16.

No matter.

I am happy for you that God has allowed you and your family to once again share in this wonderful spirit filled time; sadly only found in the Orthodox Church today.

Selaam

Fr Dcn Amde Tsion
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 14, 2008, 11:35:11 PM

I am happy for you that God has allowed you and your family to once again share in this wonderful spirit filled time; sadly only found in the Orthodox Church today.

Fr Dcn Amde Tsion

Is that true, that only the Orthodox celebrate it?  I just assumed the Catholics--and possibly the Anglicans--would have it too.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Amdetsion on February 15, 2008, 12:55:23 PM
Is that true, that only the Orthodox celebrate it?  I just assumed the Catholics--and possibly the Anglicans--would have it too.

I do not know any RC that would even know that the day was upon them.

Too many RC people have no connection with this day even if it is celebrated in some quiet way or remembered in the RC Church calendar. Anglican and so on are the same.

Seems to me that the western Christians are not well acquainted with the church holidays that have not digressed into the 'fanfare' of shopping, revelry, decorations and eating and so.

Christ entrance into the temple is very Holy, spiritual albeit very festive holy-day.

I guess nobody has found away to characterize this holiday into a more 'secular' activity that people can enjoy (and thus follow). Like Easter with peter cotton tail, jelly beans and Easter bonnets and looking for colored eggs and Christmas with trees, lights, flying reindeer, talking snowmen etc. Or "Valentines day" which is a real crowd pleaser (the "adult" holiday). The 34Th Street NYC flagship Victoria Secret store was packed last evening. I wonder why?

Of course not to be confused with the actual 'St. Valentine' who has nothing to do with cupids pagan arrow, red "heart" shaped pagan images and the lewd overtones of the whole brouhaha people call "Valentines day".

Have you any idea what the "heart shape" we are used to seeing is actually a shape of?  It is too lewd for this forum I assure you. You may be interested in researching it. When I found out the meaning I was shocked. Mattered not to me what it means now. I removed all these images from my home and life. I sold a "heart" shaped ring and necklace set I bought my wife and replaced it with something else.

That is just mt way of dealing with things.

I am basically trying to show that the various "churches" may observe the day but the "faithful" of these "churches" are completely unaware.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Schultz on February 15, 2008, 01:37:03 PM
Is that true, that only the Orthodox celebrate it?  I just assumed the Catholics--and possibly the Anglicans--would have it too.

RCs call the feast "Candlemas" (due to the old practice of blessing candles on this day) where the RCC celebrates both the presentation of our Lord and the purification of His mother Mary.  It is most definitely a feast that is almost forgotten among American Catholics.  In my RC upbringing, I don't remember celebrating it in church other than it being a part of the daily service if I happened to be serving early morning Mass that day before school.  I can't remember if we even blessed candles if it happened to fall on a Sunday.


EDIT:  Of course, I go and write the above and Shawn over at the New Liturgical Movement (http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/) posts these pictures of an outdoor procession from a Fraternity of St. Peter Seminary's Candlemas celebration earlier this month:

(http://www.fssp.org/album/VS2008W/033purificatiobmv.jpg)

(http://www.fssp.org/album/VS2008W/031purificatiobmv.jpg)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: ebpusey on February 15, 2008, 05:34:38 PM
Anglicans also celebrate this wonderful feast on the second of February.  Many of the "High Church" variety also have Candlemas processions as seen above.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Entscheidungsproblem on February 15, 2008, 05:41:30 PM
RCs call the feast "Candlemas" (due to the old practice of blessing candles on this day) where the RCC celebrates both the presentation of our Lord and the purification of His mother Mary.  It is most definitely a feast that is almost forgotten among American Catholics.  In my RC upbringing, I don't remember celebrating it in church other than it being a part of the daily service if I happened to be serving early morning Mass that day before school.  I can't remember if we even blessed candles if it happened to fall on a Sunday.


EDIT:  Of course, I go and write the above and Shawn over at the New Liturgical Movement (http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/) posts these pictures of an outdoor procession from a Fraternity of St. Peter Seminary's Candlemas celebration earlier this month:

I used to attend a traditionalist RC parish and every year there was an amazing, but humble outdoor procession (not a huge parish), blessing of beewax candles, and everything. 

I was hoping to go to the Liturgy this morning, but alas, midterms next week have me bogged down.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Amdetsion on February 18, 2008, 07:53:46 PM
RCs call the feast "Candlemas" (due to the old practice of blessing candles on this day) where the RCC celebrates both the presentation of our Lord and the purification of His mother Mary.  It is most definitely a feast that is almost forgotten among American Catholics.  In my RC upbringing, I don't remember celebrating it in church other than it being a part of the daily service if I happened to be serving early morning Mass that day before school.  I can't remember if we even blessed candles if it happened to fall on a Sunday.


EDIT:  Of course, I go and write the above and Shawn over at the New Liturgical Movement (http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/) posts these pictures of an outdoor procession from a Fraternity of St. Peter Seminary's Candlemas celebration earlier this month:

(http://www.fssp.org/album/VS2008W/033purificatiobmv.jpg)

(http://www.fssp.org/album/VS2008W/031purificatiobmv.jpg)

WOW

I am happy to see the pictures.

Very beautiful!!!

I appreciate the information. I did not know that there was a different name used by the RCC for this celebration.

I meant no harm in my post regarding RCC and Anglicans. I am always trying to convince my RC co-workers and so on to become closer to the church and follow more than the 'fun' stuff of which as I stated and you well know has too much secularism attached to it.

The pictures shows how beautiful and Holy our faith really is.

There is no clutter of decorations and folly in these pictures; just acts of Holy supplication and observance of God alone. This is what the world needs today.

I would like to attend a service to see this myself with Gods will.

Thanks much..

Fr Dcn Amde Tsion
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 13, 2009, 07:56:06 PM
Happy Presentation Day again!
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Αριστοκλής on February 13, 2009, 08:00:59 PM
A blessed Dyarnuntarach to our Armenian members!
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Entscheidungsproblem on February 13, 2009, 08:03:33 PM
Blessed feast day!
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 13, 2009, 08:07:22 PM
A blessed Dyarnuntarach to our Armenian members!

I'm impressed!   :)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 13, 2010, 07:31:32 PM
Happy Presentation Day again!

I love this feast day.   :)

(http://66.208.37.78/resources/Design/10%20presentation.jpg)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: ialmisry on February 13, 2010, 08:21:06 PM
A blessed Dyarnuntarach to our Armenian members!
Happy Feast!  Where you been?
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Alveus Lacuna on February 13, 2010, 08:36:23 PM
Where you been?

Still gone.  It's a resurrected thread.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 13, 2010, 08:40:56 PM
I miss him too.  I hope he's OK.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Asteriktos on February 13, 2010, 08:49:36 PM
I miss him too.  I hope he's OK.

I was worried about this as well, so I just called the number of the parish that he has listed in his profile. Fr. Michael answered, and he said that Αριστοκλής is ok. :)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: geovar on February 14, 2010, 10:39:28 AM
Dyarnuntarach - Thanks for teaching me a new word . With the Feast. In the Indian Church the feast is celebrated on February 2 . A good read for reflection that I found was by Tenny Thomas at his blog

http://thomastheconfessor.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 14, 2010, 11:43:03 AM
Thank you for the link, and welcome to the forum!   :)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 14, 2012, 02:36:06 AM
Happy Dyarnuntarach again, everyone.   :)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on March 14, 2012, 12:03:03 AM
Here's a video in Armenian about the holy day, showing the Old Country customs associated with it.  Early in the video there are young girls in traditional costumes making food.  Toward the end of the video you see the bonfire that people traditionally burn on that day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKQHTx1qnaA&feature=endscreen
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: ialmisry on March 14, 2012, 12:52:31 AM
Here's a video in Armenian about the holy day, showing the Old Country customs associated with it.  Early in the video there are young girls in traditional costumes making food.  Toward the end of the video you see the bonfire that people traditionally burn on that day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKQHTx1qnaA&feature=endscreen
I wonder if it is connected with the fire jumping on Nowruz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQiBnM0JuYE
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on March 14, 2012, 01:09:07 AM
Probably.  As you know, both Persians and Armenians were Zoroastrians back in the old pagan days.  Fire was important and I've heard it said that the bonfires and the custom of jumping over them (considered good luck) is a pagan tradition that was kept.  In the Armenian tradition it is considered especially good luck for newly married couples to jump over the bonfire.

Of course the Church "baptized" it with Christian meaning.  The bonfire came to be done on Presentation Day and it is lit with a candle from the altar after an evening prayer service in the church.  I think the fire is supposed to represent the Holy Spirit now.

It's kind of like people splashing each other with water on Transfiguration Day.  In the old pagan days, the water was associated with a pagan holiday called Vartavar.  After Armenia became a Christian nation, no one wanted to stop celebrating Vartavar, so the Church took the customs associated with it and made them a part of the Transfiguration Day celebrations.  To this day, people like to douse each other with water on that day, and Transfiguration Day is often referred to as Vartavar, even though that's a pagan holiday and not the proper Christian term for it.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Shanghaiski on March 14, 2012, 04:00:33 PM

I am happy for you that God has allowed you and your family to once again share in this wonderful spirit filled time; sadly only found in the Orthodox Church today.

Fr Dcn Amde Tsion

Is that true, that only the Orthodox celebrate it?  I just assumed the Catholics--and possibly the Anglicans--would have it too.

You are correct. It is a common feast, although it's become en vogue in Western churches to transfer the feast from the day to the Sunday nearest. Kind of sad, I think.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Shanghaiski on March 14, 2012, 04:03:38 PM
February 3, IIRC, is also the feast of St. Blaise, the martyr bishop (who was, I think, an Armenian). In the ancient Orthodox West (and still today in traditional liturgical churches), it was common to bless throats with the candles blessed on Candlemass, since St. Blaise was the patron of throats--a good one to have for the winter cold season.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: primuspilus on March 16, 2012, 07:40:39 PM
February 3, IIRC, is also the feast of St. Blaise, the martyr bishop (who was, I think, an Armenian). In the ancient Orthodox West (and still today in traditional liturgical churches), it was common to bless throats with the candles blessed on Candlemass, since St. Blaise was the patron of throats--a good one to have for the winter cold season.
Thats what we did on St. Blaise's day. Pretty neat :)

PP
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 14, 2013, 03:15:36 AM
Happy Presentation Day!   :)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 13, 2015, 08:56:10 PM
Happy Presentation Day again!
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Mor Ephrem on February 14, 2015, 04:34:13 PM
Happy Presentation Day again!

(https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10491095_10152585228396408_3701744953533120948_n.jpg?oh=ea9d3da0555135ff921dec6dc4520a0f&oe=555BC4A8)

Source (https://www.facebook.com/holyetchmiadzin/photos/a.94728436407.96193.73699286407/10152585228396408/?type=1&theater)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 14, 2015, 05:38:39 PM
Yeah, Etchmiadzin does bon fires right.   :)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 14, 2015, 09:49:46 PM
Pics from last night at the cathedral in California:

https://www.facebook.com/westerndiocese/photos/ms.c.eJxl0MENBDEIQ9GORpiASfpvbFZ7Gv1wfLIsQKFejj5as~;SbR18xJSGlQ8lLFptrGpnWINMZzNgQh0RJyFimBDK7uM82JGv2Jb4EV2QdfCMdRxT2ONjj~_t~;1AiL0VYk~-.bps.a.10153605913151111.1073741865.132116816110/10153605913731111/?type=1&theater

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10302525_10153605913736111_7625251305226986556_n.jpg?oh=70bcc5c060aec0e846a95d8e15cbad9e&oe=5593F30C&__gda__=1435699305_1c13b38357e410bae65a64556153078a)

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10991263_10153605914196111_1086296548247555763_n.jpg?oh=65e2e90dcbc9a01d22c6a31dd2bd23a9&oe=558B21E7)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10929916_10153605914296111_1428896427233749121_n.jpg?oh=227d3a390de765c64a6fab76c96e3d05&oe=555C6487&__gda__=1432055800_6d108fd487bd1e97a1a43ba3b54dafbd)

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10445514_10153605914331111_6657895212311207450_n.jpg?oh=519e52b66b785c2094d7f29df4cefd6d&oe=5595DA62)

There is an old folk tradition to jump over the fire.  Once it's safe, of course.   :)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10635996_10153605926066111_201926312847303200_n.jpg?oh=dd91b0d1ec994185b6f56388aa042b03&oe=5549508C&__gda__=1431527091_d85f9d786961eec6d39ff2c54c8d94d5)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 14, 2015, 09:54:16 PM
From ancient manuscripts:

(http://www.armenianchurchwd.com/assets/newsImages/2015/02/_resampled/SetWidth630-Presentation-of-the-Lord-to-the-Temple.jpg)

(http://www.armenianchurch-ed.net/uploaded_files/tinymce/images/liturgical_calendar/feast_banners/presentation.jpg)

https://www.facebook.com/westerndiocese?fref=photo
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: biro on February 14, 2015, 10:20:55 PM
My church doesn't do the bonfires. I'm jealous. :)
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 19, 2015, 01:52:18 AM
This is nice, from HH Aram:

Quote
After recounting the story of Jesus’ parents taking the 40-day-old baby to the Temple, according to the Jewish tradition, His Holiness spoke of the two symbols of the feast, light and presentation of Jesus to the temple. Jesus brought light to the world through his birth to save the people who were involved in evil deeds and living in darkness. He prayed that the faithful would take the light from the altar of the Cathedral to their homes and fill their lives with Jesus. Referring to the ritual of the presentation of Jesus to the Temple, he told the parents that by bringing their children to the church, they were offering them to God, promising that they would grow in the church with its spiritual and religious values. The Catholicos then talked about the family as the ‘little church’ and the role it plays in bringing up their children as Christians according to the teachings of the Armenian Church.

http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/2015/02/armenian-parents-should-transform-the-family-into-a-little-church-a-blessed-structure-of-our-community-his-holiness-aram-i/
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Brigidsboy on February 26, 2015, 12:20:43 PM
This is nice, from HH Aram:

Quote
After recounting the story of Jesus’ parents taking the 40-day-old baby to the Temple, according to the Jewish tradition, His Holiness spoke of the two symbols of the feast, light and presentation of Jesus to the temple. Jesus brought light to the world through his birth to save the people who were involved in evil deeds and living in darkness. He prayed that the faithful would take the light from the altar of the Cathedral to their homes and fill their lives with Jesus. Referring to the ritual of the presentation of Jesus to the Temple, he told the parents that by bringing their children to the church, they were offering them to God, promising that they would grow in the church with its spiritual and religious values. The Catholicos then talked about the family as the ‘little church’ and the role it plays in bringing up their children as Christians according to the teachings of the Armenian Church.

http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/2015/02/armenian-parents-should-transform-the-family-into-a-little-church-a-blessed-structure-of-our-community-his-holiness-aram-i/

Great quote!
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: CharalambisMakarios on March 02, 2015, 02:23:10 PM
That's a really beautiful tradition. The Presentation is one of my favorite Biblical narratives, and I'm glad there are churches that give it its due.
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: Salpy on February 11, 2017, 12:45:23 AM
Nice video about Presentation Day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vVByDz5KP8&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Presentation of the Lord to the Temple
Post by: minasoliman on February 11, 2017, 11:05:55 AM
+1