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Author Topic: Orthodoxy and gays  (Read 14039 times) Average Rating: 0
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zebu
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« on: September 14, 2005, 10:06:44 PM »

So, I was raised Episcopalian but I have been going to an Orthodox church since late July and I want to convert.  I've talked to the priest some, and really like the faith and the mission I go to as well.  The thing is, I'm gay.  I know the priest has to know, but I am afraid to tell him.  What is the attitude of Orthodoxy towards gays? I know they consider it a sin, and I agree with that, but is it like some conservative Protestant churches where a gay, even if they wanted to repent, would not be welcomed?  Do you think the priest will tell me I can't come anymore?  Will he not let me become Orthodox?  If it matters, the mission I go to is what is known as  a "convert parish"...
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2005, 11:34:51 PM »

This is wonderful that you have been looking into the Orthodox Church.

My question to you is:ÂÂ  Are you looking for the Truth - are you looking for Jesus?ÂÂ  Or are you simply looking for a church that will accept you, where you'll be comfortable?

Remember, we're all sinners.ÂÂ  Doesn't matter what type your sin is - we all struggle.ÂÂ  Our sin does not give us a label and make us who and what we are unless we allow it to.

So my suggestion to you is this: get over your fear, and speak to the priest.  ÃƒÆ’‚Â
« Last Edit: September 14, 2005, 11:41:02 PM by Katherine » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2005, 01:25:33 AM »

Some modern notable figures of Orthodoxy, like Seraphim Rose, struggled with homosexual desires. They served their church and inspired many people nonetheless. As long as you want to repent, you'll be welcomed anywhere. I've never seen hatred against gays in the Orthodox Church, since homosexual behaviour is just one sin among a thousand others. Lord knows I myself have done a lot of things that were even more grevious in His sight than any homosexual matters.

Please do come on in. I too was once in the Episcopal Church. It may seem inclusive and loving, but in reality it just lets people be happy the way they are to their spiritual doom. In Orthodoxy, you'll find true love. It may seem a little severe, but the priest and congregation will do their best to help you along the road to newness of life, and that's how you'll know you've found a real family.
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2005, 02:08:02 AM »

I can understand your discomfort at the idea, but priests are quite used to hearing people talk about their sins. As long as he understands that you are sincere about attempting to avoid "embracing the gay lifestyle"  and you are not one of those trying to bend the church's position to an advocacy and approval of homosexuality ( something gays are trying in almost all denominations, sometimes very successfully), he will in all probability be very encouraging and supportive and non judgmental. That was my experience. Keep the faith. It can be very hard trying to fight off these overwhelming physical compulsions (speaking for myself). But it is worth the effort. If you sin (we all do at times), confess it. And remember your soul will be with you a great deal longer than your body.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2005, 02:10:54 AM by Orthodoxical » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2005, 03:44:36 AM »

ÂÂ  Do you think the priest will tell me I can't come anymore?ÂÂ  Will he not let me become Orthodox?

Good Heavens no! And if he does, then he ain't really Orthodox.
All passions and sins are illnesses according to Orthodoxy, and Christ is the Physician who heals through His Church. If the Church refused medicine to the sick, I myself would leave because it would clearly not be the Church of Christ.
Actually, there are two other posters who are struggling with same-sex attraction; one is a catechumen and the other a convert.
Can I recommend this article from Touchstone Magazine by another Convert to Orthodoxy from Episcopalianism: http://touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=17-04-015-v
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2005, 06:13:44 AM »

As a former Episcopalian, and also dealing w/ same-sex attraction I can only echo what the others have said. Of course priests are all individuals and may react in different ways, but I have yet to run into anybody who has had a neg. experience.
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2005, 06:48:03 AM »

Well blow me down if that doesn't make three!
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2005, 06:58:35 AM »

Three that you know of  Lips Sealed
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2005, 07:02:52 AM »

Three that you know ofÂÂ  Lips Sealed

 Cheesy I'm sure!
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2005, 08:52:35 AM »

Is homosexuality the problem here, or it's expression?

I mean, would that constitue an *extra* sin? I don't think so.
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2005, 10:52:15 AM »

The bottom line is that practicing gays i.e. having sex with another could not receive the sacraments any more than an Orthodox who divorced outside the church and was civilly married (not in church).  Or for that matter a person having relations outside of marriage. One is adultry and the other is ---------?  So why would a person in this situation want to join the Church unless they just wanted to attend as non-communicants.  If I am wrong tell me because maybe I should be receiving the Mysteries! Huh
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2005, 11:37:40 AM »

As someone who also struggles with same-sex attraction, I have to say that the Orthodox Church is the most wonderul place of freedom.  Real freedom, in Christ.

I have to go along with what everyone else has said.  People will have different reactions, of course, but the Church is welcoming to all sinners who wish to live in repentance and fidelity to Christ.  Anyone who would not welcome a repentant sinner, as someone already said, is not truly Orthodox.

Pray for me...
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2005, 12:15:20 PM »

What I'm saying is a bit different...

Let's say someone has some sort of perversion, not specifically homosexuality, but just some other form of perversion.

Should he confess the perversion, if he's not allowing it to become a sin in life? If a homosexual for example does not sleep with a man for his whole life, but rather marries with a woman and has a family, would he still need to confess his homosexuality?
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2005, 02:16:32 PM »

Well, if a person wanted to steal his neighbor's cow, but restrained himself, would he be expected to confess it?
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2005, 02:23:27 PM »

If a homosexual for example does not sleep with a man for his whole life, but rather marries with a woman and has a family, would he still need to confess his homosexuality?

It wouldn't hurt him to confess contracting an invalid marriage.  (At least in the Roman Catholic moral law, homosexual orientation is one criterion for declaration of nullity, i.e., anullment.)
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2005, 02:27:14 PM »

Well, if a person wanted to steal his neighbor's cow, but restrained himself, would he be expected to confess it?


Yes, if he dwelled on the thought in any way.  Sometimes a spiritual father will want us to confess our temptations as well to get to the root of the problem.

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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2005, 02:28:09 PM »

Well, if a person wanted to steal his neighbor's cow, but restrained himself, would he be expected to confess it?


Actually, I think yes.  Better to confess something if in doubt than to not confess if it really is.  Didn't Christ say that if you lust after a woman in your heart you've already sinned?  The point is to become passionless - to not lust after, be envious of, etc. ÂÂ
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« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2005, 06:59:59 PM »

Quote
My question to you is:  Are you looking for the Truth - are you looking for Jesus?  Or are you simply looking for a church that will accept you, where you'll be comfortable?
Yes, I seek the Truth and I truly desire to live with, in, for, and by Jesus Christ.  If I had not sought the Truth I would not have come to the Orthodox Church in the first place.  If I wanted a church to accept me as a homosexual I would have stayed in the Episcopal Church, as they even perform gay weddings there now.  What I do want is for people to not treat my like some kind of demon because I struggle with same sex attraction.  I know it is a sin and I want to repent of it(and of my many, many, many other sins as well) and I am sincere in my desire to live chastely(and yes I know this is difficult), I am not questioning Orthodox Chrisitian teaching.  It's just that some people demonize gays and treat them more like they are the embodiment of a sociopolitical issue than an actual person(and I am not saying you, Katherine, are one of those people by any means, I am just trying to explain the reasons behind my fears about telling the priest).

 
Quote
I too was once in the Episcopal Church. It may seem inclusive and loving, but in reality it just lets people be happy the way they are to their spiritual doom
Amen to that! One of the reasons I originally started looking into other churches was that the Episcopal Church doesn't take anything seriously, it's like this is all some big game to everyone there!

Quote
In Orthodoxy, you'll find true love. It may seem a little severe, but the priest and congregation will do their best to help you along the road to newness of life, and that's how you'll know you've found a real family.
And so far all I have found in Orthodoxy is love, which is great! And I know full well that true love is not always telling people what they want to hear but what they need to hear. In my experience, liberal Christians are just as intolerant and hateful has the caricature of conservative Christians that they have in their minds.  In fact, I know so since I used to be one of those intolerant liberal Christians who had my own little agenda of what I wanted church to be.  Then I realized how very stupid it all was and how spurious my ideas were.

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Can I recommend this article from Touchstone Magazine by another Convert to Orthodoxy from Episcopalianism: http://touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=17-04-015-v
Great article! Thanks!

Thank you all for your encouraging words.  I hope to speak to the priest about it as soon as possible. 

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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2005, 07:42:49 PM »

Forgive me Zebu.ÂÂ  I didn't mean to be rude by questioning your intentions of finding a Church.ÂÂ  I'm just glad you have found the Orthodox Church - as there is no other.ÂÂ  I just know many young people (and I used to be Protestant) that hopped from one church to the other.

Anyway, it is good that you will be able to speak to the priest.  ÃƒÆ’‚ Another thing - just because you may have homosexual tendencies, you don't have to give yourself that label!  If you are a Christian, you are a child of Christ, made in God's image.  If I were a constant tea drinker beyond excess as a Christian, I would not give myself the title of tea addict!  I would simply be looking at the problem that has caused my addiction to drinking tea - whether it be lust, gluttony ... whatever!  We need to love one another for who we are - not what we are - and not what our "label" says we are.  

The only label we as humans should ever have is "sinner" - one in need of salvation and repentance.  May God have mercy!

Please forgive me again, Zebu.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2005, 07:46:00 PM by Katherine » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2005, 02:15:58 AM »

The Orthodox radio program "Come Receive the Light" did an interview w/ Fr. Thomas Hoppko on same -sex atraction a few eeks ago. It can be heard here:
http://receive.org/index.php?menu=3&submenu=23&id=352
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2005, 08:28:17 AM »

Quote
It wouldn't hurt him to confess contracting an invalid marriage.  (At least in the Roman Catholic moral law, homosexual orientation is one criterion for declaration of nullity, i.e., anullment.)

While I fully understand the principle involved in issuing a declaration of nullity, I find the modern conditions (in particular many of the modern "psychological grounds") to be absurd.  If the above example you gave is true, then to me this is a further blow against the legitimacy of such modern "impediments".

The fact of the matter is, if someone enters into a marriage despite the fact he's not really attracted at all to his partner (whether it's because of their appearance, aspects of their personality, lack of culture, or in the above case, their gender!), the fact of the matter is they made an informed decision to commit themselves to that other person.

I have a sneaking suspicion though, that given the state of modern Catholic marriage tribunals, the only time anyone would be declaring such an arragement (homosexual man married to a woman) is if one or both parties wanted out of that situation - in other words, if both were content to "stay married", yet the (gay) man involved told his confessor he's sexually attracted to other men, I highly doubt the Priest would tell him he's contracted an invalid marriage.  IOW, I believe most of the "grounds" for invalidity are backdoor ecclessiastical divorces, veiled in the sophistry of impediments to validity.

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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2005, 11:55:08 PM »

Forgive me Zebu.ÂÂ  I didn't mean to be rude by questioning your intentions of finding a Church.ÂÂ  I'm just glad you have found the Orthodox Church - as there is no other.ÂÂ  I just know many young people (and I used to be Protestant) that hopped from one church to the other.

Anyway, it is good that you will be able to speak to the priest.  ÃƒÆ’‚ Another thing - just because you may have homosexual tendencies, you don't have to give yourself that label!  If you are a Christian, you are a child of Christ, made in God's image.  If I were a constant tea drinker beyond excess as a Christian, I would not give myself the title of tea addict!  I would simply be looking at the problem that has caused my addiction to drinking tea - whether it be lust, gluttony ... whatever!  We need to love one another for who we are - not what we are - and not what our "label" says we are.  

The only label we as humans should ever have is "sinner" - one in need of salvation and repentance. May God have mercy!

Please forgive me again, Zebu.
Oh, don't worry about it! It's all good.ÂÂ  And I do need to be constantly remembering why I want to be Orthodox: for Jesus Christ, to keep myself from being distracted by other reasons.  So these are questions that I need to be asking myself.

Thank you for reminding me that first and foremost we should consider ourselves children of God.ÂÂ  I forget that sometimes and focus too much on the fact that I struggle with homosexuality, and then I fall into despair and sadness.ÂÂ  Thank you so much.ÂÂ  Really.

Crucifer: I am listening to that program as we speak.ÂÂ  Thanks!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2005, 12:12:10 AM by zebu » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2005, 08:20:30 AM »

Zebu, do remember that what God created is very good. I learned that very clearly in an evangelical setting, but never really experienced what it meant until entering the Orthodox faith and its emphasis on icons and the image of God in which we have all been created. BTW, I first came in contact with the Orthodox Church two years ago this month, and was chrismated in April in time for Pascha. I have found that the rhythm of daily and yearly cycles practised by the Orthodox Church has been important in my transformation; well, actually it was God who did the transforming, not me. And He keeps showing me how I'm still a sinner and need to depend on Him for even the ordinary things in life. Proverbs 3:5, 6  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

I believe your sincerity and have added you to my prayers.
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« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2005, 09:36:56 PM »

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Zebu, do remember that what God created is very good
Actually, the study Bible for alcoholics that I got for my sister for Christmas points out that in Genesis, after each day of creation, God said what He created was good.  But then, the day he created man, He said it was "very good".  You are right though, I need to remember this constantly, I often forget and then start treating myself and others like crap.  I actually used to cut myself because I felt so worthless, but that was like 4 years ago, before I believed in God in any real way. Thank you for your prayers and encouragement.
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« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2005, 04:52:51 PM »

It might be better to think of this as a fight against carnal warfare as opposed to solely an homosexual thing.  After every fall, thought etc. it is very helpful to pray the prayers for purity which can be purchased here: http://www.sjkp.org/search.php It is not a battle that will be won overnight - patience is key.  From the desert fathers there was a monk who fell everyday to carnal sins, but he got up repented and tried again everyday for his entire life.  In the end the demon tempting him left and said that his patience defeated him.  A great modern saint is Elder Joseph the Hesychast - for seven years he fault against huge carnal temptations.  Pray to him for help.  Also don't expect to be changed overnight - but remember that a drop of water even over the course of years shatters a boulder. 
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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2005, 05:17:41 PM »

Thank you Silouan.  You are very correct in that I need to remember to not expect instant results.  Even just a few weeks ago in church the priest was talking about how we today are so used to instant gratification, and that for most of history people had to wait for things to happen, so we must not expect instant results with our spiritual progress.
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« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2007, 08:38:28 AM »

JK Rowling says wizard Dumbledore is gay

NEW YORK (Reuters) - J.K. Rowling has outed one of the main characters of her best-selling Harry Potter series, telling fans in New York that the wizard Albus Dumbledore, head of Hogwarts school, is gay.
 
Speaking at Carnegie Hall on Friday night in her first U.S. tour in seven years, Rowling confirmed what some fans had always suspected -- that she "always thought Dumbledore was gay," reported entertainment Web site E! Online.

Rowling said Dumbledore fell in love with the charming wizard Gellert Grindelwald but when Grindelwald turned out to be more interested in the dark arts than good, Dumbledore was "terribly let down" and went on to destroy his rival.

That love, she said, was Dumbledore's "great tragedy."

"Falling in love can blind us to an extent," she said.

The audience reportedly fell silent after the admission -- then erupted into applause.

Rowling, 42, said if she had known that would be the response, she would have revealed her thoughts on Dumbledore earlier.

Fans on the top Potter fan site TheLeakyCauldron.org (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org) were divided on the news, some uncertain Rowling wasn't going to backtrack on the announcement, others saying it was unnecessary, and some welcoming the extra information on Dumbledore.

"This is even more awesome because it adds another layer to Dumbledore's character, which is already so rich and complicated. I hope he got over Grindlevald (sic) and fell in love again," wrote Amanda.

Rowling said she had read through a script for the movie adaptation of the sixth book in the series, "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" and corrected a passage in which Dumbledore was reminiscing about past loves by crossing it out and scrawling "Dumbledore is gay" over it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071020/en_nm/rowling_dc_1;_ylt=AqshUvI7Qr3Y3zJd7AfpWytnhVID

-

 Huh So bizarre. I wonder what her motivation was for this.
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« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2007, 11:51:05 AM »

This particular discussion of homosexuality has been merged into this pre-existing thread


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« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2007, 12:11:01 AM »

Since I don't know where to put this discussion, I'm going to post here.  I'm shocked that J.K. Rowling has said that Albus Dumbledore was a homosexual.  I love her books and I'm very disappointed.  I feel Rowling has put a black mark on them.  Her statement served no intelligent purpose.

Here's the link:  http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071020/en_nm/rowling_dc_1;_ylt=AqshUvI7Qr3Y3zJd7AfpWytnhVID.
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« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2007, 12:45:23 AM »

Since I don't know where to put this discussion, I'm going to post here.  I'm shocked that J.K. Rowling has said that Albus Dumbledore was a homosexual.  I love her books and I'm very disappointed.  I feel Rowling has put a black mark on them.  Her statement served no intelligent purpose.

Here's the link:  http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071020/en_nm/rowling_dc_1;_ylt=AqshUvI7Qr3Y3zJd7AfpWytnhVID.

I don't get it.
A fictional Character in a book is said by the author to be a clandestine homosexual, and Christians are affronted; yet the fact that the book openly glorifies witchcraft is perfectly acceptable to them.
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« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2007, 02:48:27 AM »

I don't get it.
A fictional Character in a book is said by the author to be a clandestine homosexual, and Christians are affronted; yet the fact that the book openly glorifies witchcraft is perfectly acceptable to them.
Not that I have any opinion of my own on the matter, because I don't, but many Christians refuse to accept Harry Potter for the very reason that it appears to glorify witchcraft.  I guess with my love for the fantasy genre, if I were to read Harry Potter, I would probably enjoy the books even if I knew one of the characters was a clandestine gay.  I had one Christian friend confide in me her refusal to read Lord of the Rings for its apparent glorification of wizardry and magic, and I thoroughly enjoy that saga.  I know there are differences, but still...  Sir Ian McKellen is, AFAIK, openly gay, yet this did not keep me from watching LOTR and enjoying his portrayal of Gandalf.
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« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2007, 03:26:37 AM »

I don't get it.
...yet the fact that the book openly glorifies witchcraft is perfectly acceptable to them.
Not all of them.  I'm not saying that these types of fantasy are necessarily evil, nor are they completely harmless.  I think parents can use these types of fantasy movies to educate their children in an entertaining way. 
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« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2007, 08:08:22 AM »

I guess the magic in Harry Potter doesn't bother me because it's obviously fictional.  It's not tied to the occult or neo-paganism.  The magic is just the source of the characters' powers, like the Force in Star Wars.  Besides all of us have grown up with benign portrayals of fictional magic (like the Disney films nobody ever fusses about.)

If you want to know why Rowling's statement bothers me, it's because she has made a character we have grown to love and than told us about a serious character flaw.  It's like we found out he's worked for Voldemort the whole time.  Rowling didn't tell us about Dumbledore (I'm guessing) because she wanted us to read her books.  Yes, it's so much better to taint the books after she has our money. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2007, 08:16:52 AM »

I think this is such a shocker to some people because we've found out (gasp) Dumbledore is human.  So what if he's gay?  He's fictional, so why does it matter?  He was a great character anyway.  What I find more interesting is the audience's reaction to the announcement. 
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« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2007, 08:40:16 AM »

If you want to know why Rowling's statement bothers me, it's because she has made a character we have grown to love and than told us about a serious character flaw
Listen to yourself! You're upset because your imaginary friend is gay!
How can anyone "grow to love" non-existent people? Save your love for real people- some of whom may very well turn out to be gay (as several of my own friends have). When my friend first "came out" to me, that was the first real test of the love I claim to profess for God and neighbour.
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« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2007, 10:20:12 AM »

I am very disappointed at this revelation.  It's gratuitous and really, if there was anyone I thought was gay it was Professor Slughorn (but that's too obvious and stereotyped isn't it!).  I believe that she really is a Christian, and that her books do have basic Christian themes, now we just know what kind she is (i.e. liberal, inclusive, love is all good no matter who it's between, etc...).  And btw, weren't the actors who potray(ed) Dumbledore gay? 

It's all the more suprising because more Christians were beginning to accept her work.  Well I guess this is gonna ensure HP books don't make it on the shelves of too many conservative Christian schools.  I'm just going to pretend she didn't blow my image of Dumbledore.  I think we'll also get more revelations about the characters as time goes on, and especially when she publishes her HP Encyclopedia.
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« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2007, 02:32:36 PM »

It's gratuitous and really,

PREFACE: I don't read the books, and I probably won't...

MAIN BODY: ... but here's the vibe I'm getting: the author has come out and stated that a character she made is gay, even though she has not written this into the story.  If this is true, then (a) it is a clear indication that this is a political move - if she didn't write it into the story - which is the only way that the character exists outside of her mind - then she is adding it after the fact, either for publicity or to make some sort of statement, (b) this author has no (or deserves no) credibility, since she has created her universe but has left out details that she thinks are obviously important enough to warrant a public "outing."

PERSONAL CONCLUSION: While her writings may be creative, I wouldn't give her any credibility as an author (or a socio-political "activist," for that matter).
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« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2007, 03:12:29 PM »

Ditto, Cleveland.

She is offer her rocker for thinking it useful or worthwhile to publicly announce who one of her fictional characters, from a children's series, has sex with. What a silly woman. I guess even imaginary people have to let the world know of their sexual practices, it seems.

Can you imagine JRR Tolkien, about 1956, telling the world that Frodo or Gandalf was a practicing homosexual? People would have suspected that the old professor had gone a bit soft in the head.

I suspect she has a political motive for this, though certainly not an effective one.
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« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2007, 04:15:36 PM »

I still don't know what is more shocking:
1.  That I agree with Ozgeorge here (really now, if one is upset that their imaginary friend is gay... well you might have some deeper problems).

2. How many adults read children's literature.  When I was a kid, my parents showed me where the children's section of the library was and left me to explore. 

3.  Why people even make such a big deal of this.  If you don't like the product, don't consume it. 
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« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2007, 04:21:09 PM »

I still don't know what is more shocking:
1.  That I agree with Ozgeorge here (really now, if one is upset that their imaginary friend is gay... well you might have some deeper problems).

2. How many adults read children's literature.  When I was a kid, my parents showed me where the children's section of the library was and left me to explore. 

3.  Why people even make such a big deal of this.  If you don't like the product, don't consume it. 


Ditto*3
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« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2007, 05:41:02 PM »

I thought the first book was boring. After I tried to read the first 20 or so pages of the first book I gave up. The stories were too silly for me. I never watched the movies either...I don't like fantasy.
My kids have read the books and seen the movies but they also have lost interest.
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« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2007, 07:06:09 PM »

My kids have read the books and seen the movies but they also have lost interest.

That is exactly my hunch: take away the forbidden fruit mystique of Harry Potter and interest will wane.  From what I've gleaned they seem like nothing compared to classics like the Narnia Chronicles. 
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« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2007, 07:45:53 PM »

Isn't JK Rowling a Presbyterian?
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« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2007, 08:09:40 PM »

Νεκτάριος, I've already consumed the product.  I've spent time and money reading the books and watching the movies.  It's a bit like buying a something from the grocery store, eating it, and then finding out it was recalled for health concerns.  I've publicly defended the Harry Potter books.  (Logically, I could just as easily tell you, "If you don't like my post, you don't have to read them.")

Ozgeorge, I'm not upset with a fictional character.  I'm upset with J.K. Rowling.  She has violated the trust of her readers.  If she wanted to make a social statement, she should have done it years ago.  I really didn't like parts of Book 5.  I decided to keep reading the series because I trusted Rowling as an author.
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« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2007, 08:12:17 PM »

That is exactly my hunch: take away the forbidden fruit mystique of Harry Potter and interest will wane.  From what I've gleaned they seem like nothing compared to classics like the Narnia Chronicles. 

You are so right. On the other hand, they have each read the Lord of the Rings Series and the Chronicles of Narnia series countless times. They never tire of those stories and have found the friendship between the two authors fascinating. They discovered that Tolkein was instrumental in the conversion of his friend, C.S. Lewis. I think my older son will enjoy reading The Screwtape Letters. He is thirteen and I believe he has reached a level of maturity to appreciate the book. I remember reading this book as a teenager and I could not put it down.
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