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Author Topic: Orthodox Church is the only church that worship God in spirit and in truth?  (Read 769 times) Average Rating: 0
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walter1234
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« on: December 16, 2012, 08:51:39 AM »

What is  "worship in spirit and in truth "?

How to prove that Orthodox Church is the only Church which worship God in spirit and in truth?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 08:54:51 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 05:32:08 PM »

What is  "worship in spirit and in truth "?

How to prove that Orthodox Church is the only Church which worship God in spirit and in truth?

Go to church and see for yourself the proof.
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 02:46:33 AM »

Lineage is an overtly Jewish characteristic that the Church inherited. Much like how parentage is carried from one child to the other to prove authenticity, so too, does the Church preserve the Apostolic Faith from one bishop to the next, ordering itself in a conciliar fashion, just as the original disciples did. That's the short version anyways.
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 12:45:45 PM »

How does Orthodox church understand 'worship in spirit and in truth' ?
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 01:13:16 PM »

How does Orthodox church understand 'worship in spirit and in truth' ?

Means that we are to obtain The Grace of The Holy Spirit, The Spirit of God who leads us to all Truth. We believe that The Church is led by The Power of The Holy Spirit, The Third Person of The Holy Trinity.
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 02:04:51 PM »

Yes and there is no need to necessarily worry about other Christians except where serious discernment is needed in certain circumstances. For ex. I truly believe that the late Pope John Paul II, the late wife of Billy Graham, Mother Theresa, C.S. Lewis etc. & all those like them will meet those of us worthy of salvation at the Lord's heavenly table while noting certain aspects of their theology we as Orthodox do not abide in.
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 09:41:16 AM »

I' ve joined the service of Orthodox Church in Hong Kong twice. One is prayer service and the other is the liturgy service.
For the prayer service, the prayers is quoted from the scriptures and the written work of saints. The priests just kept reading and praying according to the prayer books for one and half and hours. I am very bored and nearly sleep...

For the liturgy service,I did not see any difference for the holy communion of Orthodox and Protestant. It seems that Orthodox Church just take longer time to partake the Holy communion . The litugy is more than one hour.I feel very bored during the Liturgy service again...

And I did not feel the presence of God in Orthodox Church or  in Litugy Service of Orthodox Church! I did not experience God much in these service. Sad  To be honest,  I still cannot see what the difference between the services of Orthodox and Non-Orthodox, which shows me that Orthodox Church is the only true church which worship God in spirit and in truth! Sad
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 10:02:47 AM by walter1234 » Logged
walter1234
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 10:12:24 AM »

The services are a bit bored and take too long time. I try, but I still cannot adapt and enjoy them.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 10:22:11 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 10:17:39 AM »

The Protestant Churches are all over the place. I challenge you to find any consistent observance of the Lord's instructions to us on how to give alms, pray, & fast (Matthew 6:1-18). Their practice of these basic commands is all over the place. They lack proper order in the necessity of confession (see 1st letter John chapter 1 etc.) aboout the need for confession & the need for a priest was established in Leviticus 7 (if you take away the blood aspec, of the old covenant, the sacrament remains in effect). They either accept the Eucharist in various forms or say its symbolic. Many evangelicals speak of salvatio by grace (Ephesians 2:8-9 but leave out vs 10. re: works). Also the criteria of the golden rule (matthew 7:1-12) & the 2 great commands to love God & neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40 etc) are not put first before preaching of salvation by grace & then the role of works within faith becomes an endless debate.

If you want the earliest evidence of Christian faith, worship, & community  that is the basic framework of Orthodoxy read the  Didache (CA. 95 AD):

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

This order of Christian faith, worship, & community precedes the known canonical Bible & yet is directely from it.
If it were not for the Orthodox faith, Protestantism would  not have even retained the many core Orthodox aspects of Chrsitian faith they are now in anarchy with.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 10:21:44 AM by recent convert » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 10:21:53 AM »

I' ve joined the service of Orthodox Church in Hong Kong twice. One is prayer service and the other is the liturgy service.
For the prayer service, the prayers is quoted from the scriptures and the written work of saints. The priests just kept reading and praying according to the prayer books for one and half and hours. I am very bored and nearly sleep...

For the liturgy service,I did not see any difference for the holy communion of Orthodox and Protestant. It seems that Orthodox Church just take longer time to partake the Holy communion . The litugy is more than one hour.I feel very bored during the Liturgy service again...

And I did not feel the presence of God in Orthodox Church or  in Litugy Service of Orthodox Church! I did not experience God much in these service. Sad  To be honest,  I still cannot see what the difference between the services of Orthodox and Non-Orthodox, which shows me that Orthodox Church is the only true church which worship God in spirit and in truth! Sad


I am sorry that this has been your experience. If you go again, go there to pray, to repent, not to see proof. You can't tempt God like that, you have to be honestly seeking Him and have an appropriate attitude before Him. First be serious about Christ, and then look for a Church. It took me a rather long time to understand that God will not "drop from the sky", until the moment you honestly repent and want to start your life over by following His example. That's when my experience began to change.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 10:26:36 AM by IoanC » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 10:34:55 AM »

The services are a bit bored and take too long time. I try, but I still cannot adapt and enjoy them.

Quite obviously this is the result that your participation, if such actions as yours can be so labeled, were for the wrong reason - YOU. You missed the point of worship.
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 11:34:03 AM »

Quote
I am very bored and nearly sleep...
That's normal. It's just at the beginning like that. I remember my first experiences with liturgies... :S. Just after some months it became better.

Quote
And I did not feel the presence of God in Orthodox Church or  in Litugy Service of Orthodox Church! I did not experience God much in these service.   To be honest,  I still cannot see what the difference between the services of Orthodox and Non-Orthodox, which shows me that Orthodox Church is the only true church which worship God in spirit and in truth!

Forgive me, but you should know that the best sign of the presence of God is. It's when you feel deep contrition of your heart. Only through his light you can see your own darkness, your sinfulness. Beautful emotional feelings are not the proof of the presence of God. When you go down, when you feel contrition, when you humble deeply yourself, then Christ rises you up, and then you'll experience such mercy, such meekness in your heart, which you completely different than the feelings, which come when you want to have good feelings like the most protestants do. Non-orthodox christians have not this culture of contrition and repentance. They just have it at the beginning, but after some time, when they think that they're "new born christians" and saved, repentance and contrition loses his daily power and meaning. But how can you say that you're sinner without deep contrition?

If you go next time in a orthodox church, humble yourself and think: "Who am I that I'm worthy to feel the presence of God. Lord have just mercy on me, that's enough!" Be patient.

I had also problems with the long liturgy, because I was not experienced in prayer(and I'm still not) and in paying attention. Do you have a prayer book? When you pray with mindfulness and contrition every day with it , after some time, weeks, months, you'll start to feel what the liturgy is, what orthodoxy is.
Forigve me that I'm so bold to teach.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 11:40:03 AM by Nathanael » Logged

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walter1234
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2012, 03:36:35 AM »

The Protestant Churches are all over the place. I challenge you to find any consistent observance of the Lord's instructions to us on how to give alms, pray, & fast (Matthew 6:1-18). Their practice of these basic commands is all over the place. They lack proper order in the necessity of confession (see 1st letter John chapter 1 etc.) aboout the need for confession & the need for a priest was established in Leviticus 7 (if you take away the blood aspec, of the old covenant, the sacrament remains in effect). They either accept t_he Eucharist in various forms or say its symbolic. Many evangelicals speak of salvatio by grace (Ephesians 2:8-9 but leave out vs 10. re: works). Also the criteria of the golden rule (matthew 7:1-12) & the 2 great commands to love God & neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40 etc) are not put first before preaching of salvation by grace & then the role of works within faith becomes an endless debate.

If you want the earliest evidence of Christian faith, worship, & community  that is the basic framework of Orthodoxy read the  Didache (CA. 95 AD):

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

This order of Christian faith, worship, & community precedes the known canonical Bible & yet is directely from it.
If it were not for the Orthodox faith, Protestantism would  not have even retained the many core Orthodox aspects of Chrsitian faith they are now in anarchy with.

All Orthodox church use the same form of Eucharist? What form of Eucharist do all Orthodox Church use?
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« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2012, 07:42:45 AM »

All Orthodox church use the same form of Eucharist? What form of Eucharist do all Orthodox Church use?

There are several forms of Divine Liturgy approved for usage however Divine Liturgy of St. John Goldenmouth is used in 80%+ of cases.
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« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2012, 06:21:55 PM »

The Protestant Churches are all over the place. I challenge you to find any consistent observance of the Lord's instructions to us on how to give alms, pray, & fast (Matthew 6:1-18). Their practice of these basic commands is all over the place. They lack proper order in the necessity of confession (see 1st letter John chapter 1 etc.) aboout the need for confession & the need for a priest was established in Leviticus 7 (if you take away the blood aspec, of the old covenant, the sacrament remains in effect). They either accept the Eucharist in various forms or say its symbolic. Many evangelicals speak of salvatio by grace (Ephesians 2:8-9 but leave out vs 10. re: works). Also the criteria of the golden rule (matthew 7:1-12) & the 2 great commands to love God & neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40 etc) are not put first before preaching of salvation by grace & then the role of works within faith becomes an endless debate.

If you want the earliest evidence of Christian faith, worship, & community  that is the basic framework of Orthodoxy read the  Didache (CA. 95 AD):

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

This order of Christian faith, worship, & community precedes the known canonical Bible & yet is directely from it.
If it were not for the Orthodox faith, Protestantism would  not have even retained the many core Orthodox aspects of Chrsitian faith they are now in anarchy with.

Didache teaches that both baptiser and baptised need to fast for one or two day before baptsm .How can this teaching align with Act 8:26-40?

(Both the Baptiser who is Philip and baptised who is the eeunuch did not fast before baptism in Act 8:26-40...)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 06:25:34 PM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2012, 06:28:59 PM »


Didache teaches that both baptiser and baptised need to fast for one or two day before baptsm .How can this teaching align with Act 8:26-40?

(Both the Baptiser who is Philip and baptised who is the eeunuch did not fast before baptism in Act 8:26-40...)

There wasn't a very long catechumenate for the Ethiopian eunuch either. The way it's described in the Didache is the ideal one but you'll see that the Didache allows for some oikonomia in the case of Baptism. The ideal that the didache prescribes is triple immersion in living water but it allows triple immersion in other water too and even baptism by sprinkling in some instances.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 06:29:53 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2012, 07:16:08 PM »

The services are a bit bored and take too long time. I try, but I still cannot adapt and enjoy them.

I think one of the most  profound things I was told by a Reader was that the Worship was to put ourselves to death.  I'm not sure how else to explain it, but if I go in with my expectations of enjoyment then I  receive only a temporary adrenaline boost which is natural were as if I bind myself, my expectations and die to myself in the Worship, take and make the worship into my heart/soul I walk away with peace deep within which is lasting and transforming at the same time knowing my unworthiness.  It is a strange but freeing situation and I am not sure exactly how to explain.  I do know expectations will bring one type of joy were self denying brings with it a greater joy.
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« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2012, 06:47:43 PM »

and even baptism by sprinkling in some instances.

Forgive me for being a pedant, but it allows baptism by threefold pouring over the head, not sprinkling. Where there was no source of water big enough to allow for full immersion, the baptismal candidate would stand in shallow water and have water poured over his/her head three times, thereby covering the entire body in water. This is standard practice in Orthodox parishes which do not have adult fonts. Even in the case of sickbed baptisms, early sources tell us that the person would lie naked on the bed and water would be poured over the entire body three times.

The Didache should not be taken as a proof-text in support of the practice commonly employed among Roman Catholics and many Protestants (and regrettably even some Orthodox) in which the priest takes a little bit of water in his hand and pours/sprinkles/smears it on the head alone.
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