Achronos
What's so good about Cincinnati? You like it? You think Cincinnati is cool? I've never heard anyone say, 'I'm going to Cincinnati on vacation.'
Site Supporter
Warned
Hoplitarches
 Offline
Faith: Building Steam with a Grain of Salt
Jurisdiction: Just as little is seen in pure light as in pure darkness.
Posts: 9,308
And we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?!
|
 |
« on: July 04, 2012, 11:34:41 PM » |
|
So it is totally possible then for people outside of the Church to be saved, or is it possible that all will be saved? Are there going to be some that will not be eligible for salvation?
It just seems like this part is pretty murky to me. AFAIK, being a member of the Orthodox Church you have a better chance at salvation than outside of it.
How about the "Every knee wil bow and confess Jesus as Lord" verse? Does that have anything to do with universal salvation for all?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
"Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are."
"We see at once that the words absolute, divine, eternal, and so on do not express what is implied in them.
|
|
|
LizaSymonenko
Христос Воскрес!!! Christ is Risen!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
 Online
Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 7,516
|
|
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2012, 12:14:43 AM » |
|
We know what Christ taught...that the only way to the Father is through the Son. We know what the Church teaches, and what the Saints preached. Therefore, this would mean those who discount the Trinity might well be lost.
However, it's God's choice, and we pray that everyone be saved.
John 10:
14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my own sheep, and they know me, 15 just as my Father knows me and I know the Father. So I sacrifice my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd.
...which shows that Christ hasn't given up on the other sheep. We were once the "other" sheep. We hope and pray the lost sheep of today, hear the voice of the Shepherd and join the flock.
Remember, it's not guaranteed that 100% of Orthodox Christians will be saved. Each will be judged and by the Grace of God will one be saved...not by privilege, or right or that they have earned it in some way....because we could never be worthy.
Matthew 7:21:
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
We know what to do. The Orthodox Faith is Christ's Church. We need to be the best we can, and leave the rest to God. We aren't to judge others, we aren't to condemn them. Only God knows who He will save and whom He will condemn.
We need to worry about our own salvation.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
|
|
|
Achronos
What's so good about Cincinnati? You like it? You think Cincinnati is cool? I've never heard anyone say, 'I'm going to Cincinnati on vacation.'
Site Supporter
Warned
Hoplitarches
Offline
Faith: Building Steam with a Grain of Salt
Jurisdiction: Just as little is seen in pure light as in pure darkness.
Posts: 9,308
And we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?!
|
|
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 12:19:45 AM » |
|
That makes perfect sense to me, thanks.
So there will be people who won't be saved then right? I mean I know it's up to God, but that is a possibility no?
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 12:20:00 AM by Achronos »
|
Logged
|
“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
"Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are."
"We see at once that the words absolute, divine, eternal, and so on do not express what is implied in them.
|
|
|
LizaSymonenko
Христос Воскрес!!! Christ is Risen!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
Online
Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 7,516
|
|
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 12:24:02 AM » |
|
That is a definite possibility.
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:49-50).
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
|
|
|
Gorazd
High Elder
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: The Ecumenical Patriarchate of Istanbul and Chambésy
Posts: 1,519
|
|
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2012, 03:26:10 AM » |
|
"Through the Son", means that only through him, there can be salvation. But the statement is not as clear as some Evangelical Protestants claim it to be: Does "through the Son" mean only those who are part of his body, i.e. the Orthodox Church? Does it mean those who confess faith in him? Or is it possible to be saved through the son, i.e. through his generosity, without explicitly believing in him?
I guess it would be Orthodox to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
JamesRottnek
Taxiarches
Offline
Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 4,544
I am Bibleman
|
|
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2012, 02:42:47 PM » |
|
So it is totally possible then for people outside of the Church to be saved, or is it possible that all will be saved? Are there going to be some that will not be eligible for salvation?
It just seems like this part is pretty murky to me. AFAIK, being a member of the Orthodox Church you have a better chance at salvation than outside of it.
How about the "Every knee wil bow and confess Jesus as Lord" verse? Does that have anything to do with universal salvation for all?
Let me quote Met. Kallistos, who quotes St. Isaac and references St. Gregory (from page 262 of the new edition of The Orthodox Church): Hell exists as a final possibility, but several of the Fathers have none the less believed that in the end all will be reconciled to God....we must not despair of anyone's salvation, but must long and pray for the reconciliation of all without exception. No one must be excluded from our loving intercession. "What is a merciful heart?" asked Isaac the Syrian. "It is a heart that burns with love for the whole of creation, for humans, for birds, for the beasts, for the demons, for all creatures." Gregory of Nyssa said that Christians may legitimately hope even for the redemption of the devil. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?
The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.
American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.
Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
|
|
|
|
