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Author Topic: Can we date muslims?  (Read 9695 times) Average Rating: 0
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Cantor Krishnich
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« on: March 25, 2012, 10:33:16 PM »

Im in highschool and have recently started dating a Palestinian Muslim girl. Suprisingly...Not just any muslim, she wears a Hijab (Headscarf)  and is pretty devout in her faith. This is surprising because their Qur'an forbids muslims to date and for muslim women to marry a nonmuslim. I know our church allows doesnt allow interfaith marriage. I dont know if I we will end up married (at least I dont think we will) but is it really this complicated. Im worrying because someone told me that such a relationship is wrong (orthodox + muslim). Thanks for your answers! ICXC NIKA!
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2012, 10:36:47 PM »

Quote
their Qur'an forbids muslims ... to marry a nonmuslim
Quote
I know our church ... doesnt allow interfaith marriage.

I think you answered your own question.
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2012, 10:41:50 PM »

Quote
their Qur'an forbids muslims ... to marry a nonmuslim
Quote
I know our church ... doesnt allow interfaith marriage.

I think you answered your own question.

Amen!

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

What is more important to you?  Dating a non-Orthodox woman, or Orthodoxy?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 10:42:30 PM by minasoliman » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2012, 10:42:03 PM »

Even if you wanted to marry her, neither she nor her religion will let you. Muslim women are forbidden in Islam to marry a non muslim based on a Qu'an injunction (unless the man converts to Islam). Surprisingly, a Muslim man is allowed to marry a non muslim, as long as she is a Christian, Jew or Sabean. The reason given is that a Muslim man will allow his non muslim spouse to practice her religion but a non muslim man will not allow or guarantee his non muslim spouse to practice her religion. Also, Muslims see Islam as the superior religion, so the children of such a marriage have to be raised Muslims.

My friend, my advice to you is don't start anything with this girl, it will lead no where and the journey will be painful.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 10:43:26 PM by Dimitrius » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2012, 10:57:43 PM »

Quote
their Qur'an forbids muslims ... to marry a nonmuslim
Quote
I know our church ... doesnt allow interfaith marriage.

I think you answered your own question.

Amen!

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

What is more important to you?  Dating a non-Orthodox woman, or Orthodoxy?

Really?

You are in high school.

Relax.

Dating can be no big deal. If you are sane, it shouldn't be, especially in high school.

Enjoy each other's company. You ain't getting married, even if you both think you are going to be the next Romeo and Juliet.

And really how dare people say: which is more important Orthodoxy or x? Especially, from faulty logic.

Go create false dichotomies for yourself.

Choose internet use or Orthodoxy. If you reply, I'll know where you stand.

And make sure your mother knows you hate her.

Thanks.

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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2012, 11:02:32 PM »

A better question is: Why should I date a Muslim?  You can't marry her unless she becomes Orthodox, so is there a point?  All that can happen is that you can fall into temptation and sin.
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2012, 11:37:21 PM »

Why would anyone WANT to date a Muslim in the first place? Anti-Christ nonsense is a total turn off.
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2012, 11:44:34 PM »

A better question is: Why should I date a Muslim?  You can't marry her unless she becomes Orthodox, so is there a point?  All that can happen is that you can fall into temptation and sin.

High school.

All that can happen is that you fall into temptation and sin.

What does being Muslim have to do with it.

Again, high school.
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 11:53:38 PM »

Quote
their Qur'an forbids muslims ... to marry a nonmuslim
Quote
I know our church ... doesnt allow interfaith marriage.

I think you answered your own question.

Amen!

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

What is more important to you?  Dating a non-Orthodox woman, or Orthodoxy?

Really?

You are in high school.

Relax.

Dating can be no big deal. If you are sane, it shouldn't be, especially in high school.

Enjoy each other's company. You ain't getting married, even if you both think you are going to be the next Romeo and Juliet.

And really how dare people say: which is more important Orthodoxy or x? Especially, from faulty logic.

Go create false dichotomies for yourself.

Choose internet use or Orthodoxy. If you reply, I'll know where you stand.

And make sure your mother knows you hate her.

Thanks.

Thanks Orthonorm, This needed to be said.

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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 11:59:04 PM »

Im in highschool and have recently started dating a Palestinian Muslim girl. Suprisingly...Not just any muslim, she wears a Hijab (Headscarf)  and is pretty devout in her faith. This is surprising because their Qur'an forbids muslims to date and for muslim women to marry a nonmuslim. I know our church allows doesnt allow interfaith marriage. I dont know if I we will end up married (at least I dont think we will) but is it really this complicated. Im worrying because someone told me that such a relationship is wrong (orthodox + muslim). Thanks for your answers! ICXC NIKA!
You're in high school, which means you're probably still under the custody of your parents. Talk this over with them, ask them for their counsel, then obey it.
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2012, 12:08:39 AM »

Quote
their Qur'an forbids muslims ... to marry a nonmuslim
Quote
I know our church ... doesnt allow interfaith marriage.

I think you answered your own question.

Amen!

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

What is more important to you?  Dating a non-Orthodox woman, or Orthodoxy?

Really?

You are in high school.

Relax.

Dating can be no big deal. If you are sane, it shouldn't be, especially in high school.

Enjoy each other's company. You ain't getting married, even if you both think you are going to be the next Romeo and Juliet.

And really how dare people say: which is more important Orthodoxy or x? Especially, from faulty logic.

Go create false dichotomies for yourself.

Choose internet use or Orthodoxy. If you reply, I'll know where you stand.

And make sure your mother knows you hate her.

Thanks.



I know I'm being harsh.  But why would you want to give the kid a potential heart break?  "All that can happen is that you fall into temptation and sin?"  I ask you really?  So let the kid fall into sin, that's okay?  And why would you want to jeopardize her life as well (and I'm not talking about life or death, but culture-wise she's from a different world that I'm familiar with; I know a Muslim guy who broke up a hijabi girl because this wasn't the first time she french-kissed!!!  I called him a jerk of course, but this is reality).  Obviously, she's a hijabi, but it seems that she doesn't act like a hijabi girl, and she might have been forced or pressured to do so.

Out of personal experience, don't do it.  It ain't worth it.  But seeing that you love Orthodoxy, this is the verse that is always in front of my mind.  There's wisdom in it in more ways than one.

Be honest with yourself and she should be honest with herself.  Maintain friendship, but don't date her if that's possible.



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« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 12:39:50 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2012, 12:24:11 AM »

I know a Muslim guy who broke up a hijabi girl because this wasn't the first time she french-kissed!!! 
You mean, ferengi-kissed?
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2012, 12:25:50 AM »

I know a Muslim guy who broke up a hijabi girl because this wasn't the first time she french-kissed!!! 
You mean, ferengi-kissed?

I have no idea what that means.
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2012, 12:29:10 AM »

I know a Muslim guy who broke up a hijabi girl because this wasn't the first time she french-kissed!!!  
You mean, ferengi-kissed?

I have no idea what that means.
I've heard that Ferengi is Arabic for "Frank/the French", and (by association) all Europeans.
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2012, 12:32:01 AM »

I know a Muslim guy who broke up a hijabi girl because this wasn't the first time she french-kissed!!! 
You mean, ferengi-kissed?

I have no idea what that means.
I've heard that Ferengi is Arabic for "Frank/the French", and (by association) all Europeans.

How do you know she's not Pakistani or Indian Muslim (who interestingly are stricter than Arabs)?

But ya, I heard it pronounced "efrungi" or "faransawi"
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2012, 12:33:50 AM »

What's most important is that you treat her right and be conscientious, courteous and considerate.  Make sure to listen to her tell you herself about who she is.  Make sure to be honest with her about who you are, and be sincere about it.  Have a good time.
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2012, 12:36:09 AM »

I know a Muslim guy who broke up a hijabi girl because this wasn't the first time she french-kissed!!! 
You mean, ferengi-kissed?

I have no idea what that means.
I've heard that Ferengi is Arabic for "Frank/the French", and (by association) all Europeans.

How do you know she's not Pakistani or Indian Muslim (who interestingly are stricter than Arabs)?
Versions of "ferengi" are found in Persian, Urdu, Hindi, and many other Asian languages.
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2012, 12:38:34 AM »

I hate it when people blindly say "ask your priest". I think it's silly... dangerous even.

(But if you have a priest you respect and trust... forget this thread and ask him instead!)
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2012, 12:41:10 AM »

I know a Muslim guy who broke up a hijabi girl because this wasn't the first time she french-kissed!!! 
You mean, ferengi-kissed?

I have no idea what that means.
I've heard that Ferengi is Arabic for "Frank/the French", and (by association) all Europeans.

How do you know she's not Pakistani or Indian Muslim (who interestingly are stricter than Arabs)?

But ya, I heard it pronounced "efrungi" or "faransawi"

"Ferenji" and other cognates (meaning "Franks") was once used, prior to the rise of Islam and its divisions of the world, in Semitic languages to refer to Westerners. This is still the case in Ethiopia, where the term "Ferenji" is used in this way in Amharic (probably also Tigrinya, I would guess). For a French person, though (not just "general Westerner"), the word is "Faransawi", just like in Arabic...so the use of "Ferenji" doesn't really work in this context..."she's been Western-ly kissed" just sounds weird.  Undecided
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« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2012, 12:45:53 AM »

Well, anyway, the point is...

Don't judge this situation based on the Anglo-Saxon or "White" culture, the "have fun" mentality or "this is only high school."  She's a Muslim, so understand where she's coming from.  Most probably, she's doing this behind her parents' back.  I think despite her immaturity, one has to be sensitive also to HER situation, and not just to your own.  In fact, most Hijabi women when taking their Hijabi status strictly are not even supposed to shake hands with a stranger male.

On an Orthodox Christian perspective, in my opinion, one would seem to ignore Orthodox standards despite knowing exactly what the Orthodox standards are, and go only on an emotionally based decision, not logical.
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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2012, 12:53:17 AM »

Quote
their Qur'an forbids muslims ... to marry a nonmuslim
Quote
I know our church ... doesnt allow interfaith marriage.

I think you answered your own question.

Amen!  I feel strongly that you should end this now.  Even though you're still in high school, I want you to think this through to it's logical conclusion.  Life is not a dress rehearsal; This is very serious, friend.  The choices we make today DOES influence our future lives.   
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« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2012, 01:00:41 AM »

"White" = "Have fun"? Boy have been doing it wrong...  Smiley

High school or no high school, if you want to have an actual relationship (not some weird "down low" deal), wouldn't that involve meeting her parents eventually? And wouldn't they be very unhappy to see their daughter dating a non-believer? I just don't see how this could end or even progress well, barring the mass conversion of her family. There have already been several cases in the USA and Britain (and probably elsewhere) of the daughters of Muslim families being murdered for dating period, as it is seen as an immoral activity, to say nothing of dating a non-Muslim, which is certainly verboten.

I know, I know...it's just high school...but Sarah Said was just a teenager when she was murdered by her father in Texas for having a boyfriend. Tina Isa was only 16 when she was murdered by her (Palestinian immigrant) parents in St. Louis, Missouri for having a boyfriend. Unfortunately, the virulent hatred of all things Western on the part of extremely religious and conservative Muslims also extends to what would be seen by many non-Muslims as regular or innocuous parts of growing up, like high school dating.

Nobody should date Muslims, especially devout Muslims.
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« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2012, 01:03:30 AM »

A better question is: Why should I date a Muslim?  You can't marry her unless she becomes Orthodox, so is there a point?  All that can happen is that you can fall into temptation and sin.

High school.

All that can happen is that you fall into temptation and sin.

What does being Muslim have to do with it.

Again, high school.

 I always find your musings witty and intelligent, but this is the most dangerous advice I've read; "All that can happen is that you fall into ... sin".  I know you know that 'sin' is no joke and IS a big deal.  I agree that most high school romance doesn't last long and both parties grow up and move on.  But that does not mean there are no consequences.  Sin has consequences regardless of age.  I believe Christ even admonishes us that "what we sow, we shall reap."

 Cantor, talk this over with your parents and with your priest.  You don't have to substitute their judgement for yours, but rely on their wisdom and experience.  In addition,  read a chapter from Proverbs every day.  You will never regret it.    
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« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2012, 01:04:00 AM »

"White" = "Have fun"? Boy have been doing it wrong...  Smiley

High school or no high school, if you want to have an actual relationship (not some weird "down low" deal), wouldn't that involve meeting her parents eventually? And wouldn't they be very unhappy to see their daughter dating a non-believer? I just don't see how this could end or even progress well, barring the mass conversion of her family. There have already been several cases in the USA and Britain (and probably elsewhere) of the daughters of Muslim families being murdered for dating period, as it is seen as an immoral activity, to say nothing of dating a non-Muslim, which is certainly verboten.

I know, I know...it's just high school...but Sarah Said was just a teenager when she was murdered by her father in Texas for having a boyfriend. Tina Isa was only 16 when she was murdered by her (Palestinian immigrant) parents in St. Louis, Missouri for having a boyfriend. Unfortunately, the virulent hatred of all things Western on the part of extremely religious and conservative Muslims also extends to what would be seen by many non-Muslims as regular or innocuous parts of growing up, like high school dating.

Nobody should date Muslims, especially devout Muslims.

I'll be honest with you...but that has been my impression in high school.  White or Black parents="Let them have fun."  FOB parents equal=I kill you and that other guy (literally or figuratively).

The examples you give of Muslim teenagers is an extreme and rare example, but I agree, it's possible.
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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2012, 01:11:48 AM »

I think Muslims can be pretty hot, just watch out for their families.
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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2012, 01:14:16 AM »

I'll be honest with you...but that has been my impression in high school.  White or Black parents="Let them have fun."  FOB parents equal=I kill you and that other guy (literally or figuratively).

The examples you give of Muslim teenagers is an extreme and rare example, but I agree, it's possible.

Yeah, I don't mean to make it seem like all Muslims are murdering their children or whatever. That's clearly not the case. But I think the fact that these children were murdered for having boyfriends...well, I know it would give me pause, even if the girl was openly pursuing me. Why put someone you care about in danger? And yourself, too. You know what happens in the Middle East regarding the wrong kind (un-Islamic) of interfaith relationship, or even rumors of them. If you take parents who were raised in such an environment and put them and their families in a new environment where it isn't that way...well, bad things can happen.

Your post makes me glad I'm one generation away from FOB parenting...but then I never dated anyone just for "fun" anyway. I don't understand that mentality at all.
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« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 01:27:43 AM »

I know this post was not directed at me, but I have some comments
But why would you want to give the kid a potential heart break?
From my experience, heart breaks turn into fond memories later on in life.

Quote
 "All that can happen is that you fall into temptation and sin?"  I ask you really?  So let the kid fall into sin, that's okay?  
This is a general problem. But I do not think that the Orthodox should be so insular as to forbid meaningful relationships with non-Christians. We do this all of the time with atheists (at least I do) and this is one of the reasons why I believe we exist, to be an icon of our faith to the best of our abilities.

I have no background to comment on the remainder of your post. And, as usual, by the time I write something there are 5 or 6 new posts ahead of me.
Quote
And why would you want to jeopardize her life as well (and I'm not talking about life or death, but culture-wise she's from a different world that I'm familiar with; I know a Muslim guy who broke up a hijabi girl because this wasn't the first time she french-kissed!!!  I called him a jerk of course, but this is reality).  Obviously, she's a hijabi, but it seems that she doesn't act like a hijabi girl, and she might have been forced or pressured to do so.

Out of personal experience, don't do it.  It ain't worth it.  But seeing that you love Orthodoxy, this is the verse that is always in front of my mind.  There's wisdom in it in more ways than one.

Be honest with yourself and she should be honest with herself.  Maintain friendship, but don't date her if that's possible.



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« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2012, 01:28:31 AM »

I'll deal with the obvious idiocy in this thread later, I mean that in strictest sense. Look up the word.

And the obvious animus toward a PERSON you don't know based on ideological caricatures.

And everyone work on your reading comprehension.

HE IS IN HIGH SCHOOL. I guess if she were magically Orthodox there would be NO TEMPTATION. AND NO SIN.

Wow. Now we know the answer to the entirety of the human condition: don't go for coffee or watch a movie with a Muslim girl when you are in high school.

If only we knew this sooner.

This is frankly embarrassing and the sorta thing that gives Christianity its worst name.

EDIT: Edit, I think the magic part is not being Muslim, not the Orthodox part. Sheesh.



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« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2012, 01:31:04 AM »

I know this post was not directed at me, but I have some comments
But why would you want to give the kid a potential heart break?
From my experience, heart breaks turn into fond memories later on in life.

Quote
 "All that can happen is that you fall into temptation and sin?"  I ask you really?  So let the kid fall into sin, that's okay?  
This is a general problem. But I do not think that the Orthodox should be so insular as to forbid meaningful relationships with non-Christians. We do this all of the time with atheists (at least I do) and this is one of the reasons why I believe we exist, to be an icon of our faith to the best of our abilities.

I have no background to comment on the remainder of your post. And, as usual, by the time I write something there are 5 or 6 new posts ahead of me.

Truth.

And if your heart ain't broken, you ain't gonna know it is there.

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« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2012, 01:36:10 AM »

I'll deal with the obvious idiocy in this thread later, I mean that in strictest sense. Look up the word.

And the obvious animus toward a PERSON you don't know based on ideological caricatures.

And everyone work on your reading comprehension.

HE IS IN HIGH SCHOOL. I guess if she were magically Orthodox there would be NO TEMPTATION. AND NO SIN.

Wow. Now we know the answer to the entirety of the human condition: don't go for coffee or watch a movie with a Muslim girl when you are in high school.

If only we knew this sooner.

This is frankly embarrassing and the sorta thing that gives Christianity its worst name.

EDIT: Edit, I think the magic part is not being Muslim, not the Orthodox part. Sheesh.





I think the obvious idiocy is right here.  First off, going for a coffee or watching a movie ain't "falling into temptation and sin," which was the first idiocy you posted, and then all of a sudden you change your mind.

Second idiocy is the insensitivity of the other's culture.  Just because you're a white guy doesn't mean she follows the same standards.  Call it a caricature.  My experience was this was real life.

This ain't about giving Christianity a bad name.  It's about giving a Muslim girl a bad reputation even if she doesn't care.
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« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2012, 01:50:27 AM »

"White" = "Have fun"? Boy have been doing it wrong...  Smiley

High school or no high school, if you want to have an actual relationship (not some weird "down low" deal), wouldn't that involve meeting her parents eventually? And wouldn't they be very unhappy to see their daughter dating a non-believer? I just don't see how this could end or even progress well, barring the mass conversion of her family. There have already been several cases in the USA and Britain (and probably elsewhere) of the daughters of Muslim families being murdered for dating period, as it is seen as an immoral activity, to say nothing of dating a non-Muslim, which is certainly verboten.

I know, I know...it's just high school...but Sarah Said was just a teenager when she was murdered by her father in Texas for having a boyfriend. Tina Isa was only 16 when she was murdered by her (Palestinian immigrant) parents in St. Louis, Missouri for having a boyfriend. Unfortunately, the virulent hatred of all things Western on the part of extremely religious and conservative Muslims also extends to what would be seen by many non-Muslims as regular or innocuous parts of growing up, like high school dating.

Nobody should date Muslims, especially devout Muslims.

I'll be honest with you...but that has been my impression in high school.  White or Black parents="Let them have fun."  FOB parents equal=I kill you and that other guy (literally or figuratively).

The examples you give of Muslim teenagers is an extreme and rare example, but I agree, it's possible.

Actually, surprisingly, her father is very Secular/Western, and even encourages her to date/mingle with friends and integrate into American society. In contrast, her mom is a religious Muslim (though she would allow her to date a muslim). The girl wears the hijab by choice is quiet religious but she picks and chooses the rules which she wants to follow.  

I am well aware of the fact that there is an over-emphasis on "miscellaneous having fun" in American High School (Black and White). Fun can be either good or bad. I pray that St. Anthony the Great will protect me from the "bad fun" and that God will deliver me from temptation everyday. Believe me, im not looking for any....."bad fun". But I also dont think that I will be getting married until im about 25 so I dont really think I should worry about it that much.

In comment to the comment made of the muslim honor killings....Like Minasoliman said, that is a VERY rare case and I think that most Arab parents would die protecting their children, especially her parents, and would not even think of killing their children (more Islamophobic media, I suppose). But It does happen on rare occasions, this is definitely NOT the case though.    
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« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2012, 01:51:27 AM »

Mina, maybe this is a language thing, but what Orthonorm meant was clear to me:

The fact that he's having a little high-school relationship with a Muslim rather than an Christian does not increase the chances of more sin occurring.

That's what the indicator "all that could happen" was for. Not to downplay sin.
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« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2012, 01:59:22 AM »

"White" = "Have fun"? Boy have been doing it wrong...  Smiley

High school or no high school, if you want to have an actual relationship (not some weird "down low" deal), wouldn't that involve meeting her parents eventually? And wouldn't they be very unhappy to see their daughter dating a non-believer? I just don't see how this could end or even progress well, barring the mass conversion of her family. There have already been several cases in the USA and Britain (and probably elsewhere) of the daughters of Muslim families being murdered for dating period, as it is seen as an immoral activity, to say nothing of dating a non-Muslim, which is certainly verboten.

I know, I know...it's just high school...but Sarah Said was just a teenager when she was murdered by her father in Texas for having a boyfriend. Tina Isa was only 16 when she was murdered by her (Palestinian immigrant) parents in St. Louis, Missouri for having a boyfriend. Unfortunately, the virulent hatred of all things Western on the part of extremely religious and conservative Muslims also extends to what would be seen by many non-Muslims as regular or innocuous parts of growing up, like high school dating.

Nobody should date Muslims, especially devout Muslims.

I'll be honest with you...but that has been my impression in high school.  White or Black parents="Let them have fun."  FOB parents equal=I kill you and that other guy (literally or figuratively).

The examples you give of Muslim teenagers is an extreme and rare example, but I agree, it's possible.

Actually, surprisingly, her father is very Secular/Western, and even encourages her to date/mingle with friends and integrate into American society. In contrast, her mom is a religious Muslim (though she would allow her to date a muslim). The girl wears the hijab by choice is quiet religious but she picks and chooses the rules which she wants to follow.  

I am well aware of the fact that there is an over-emphasis on "miscellaneous having fun" in American High School (Black and White). Fun can be either good or bad. I pray that St. Anthony the Great will protect me from the "bad fun" and that God will deliver me from temptation everyday. Believe me, im not looking for any....."bad fun". But I also dont think that I will be getting married until im about 25 so I dont really think I should worry about it that much.

In comment to the comment made of the muslim honor killings....Like Minasoliman said, that is a VERY rare case and I think that most Arab parents would die protecting their children, especially her parents, and would not even think of killing their children (more Islamophobic media, I suppose). But It does happen on rare occasions, this is definitely NOT the case though.    

You humble me Cantor.  Consider this at least.  What will you gain in the end?  I mean dating carries with it a certain romantic vibe, not just mere mingling, which is fine by my standards.  Obviously you're too young for marriage, but what exactly will happen if next steps are desired to be taken.  And I'm not talking about sin here, just a more serious relationship.
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« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2012, 02:00:08 AM »

Is her Father encouraging her to evangelize-date?
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« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2012, 02:04:36 AM »

"White" = "Have fun"? Boy have been doing it wrong...  Smiley

High school or no high school, if you want to have an actual relationship (not some weird "down low" deal), wouldn't that involve meeting her parents eventually? And wouldn't they be very unhappy to see their daughter dating a non-believer? I just don't see how this could end or even progress well, barring the mass conversion of her family. There have already been several cases in the USA and Britain (and probably elsewhere) of the daughters of Muslim families being murdered for dating period, as it is seen as an immoral activity, to say nothing of dating a non-Muslim, which is certainly verboten.

I know, I know...it's just high school...but Sarah Said was just a teenager when she was murdered by her father in Texas for having a boyfriend. Tina Isa was only 16 when she was murdered by her (Palestinian immigrant) parents in St. Louis, Missouri for having a boyfriend. Unfortunately, the virulent hatred of all things Western on the part of extremely religious and conservative Muslims also extends to what would be seen by many non-Muslims as regular or innocuous parts of growing up, like high school dating.

Nobody should date Muslims, especially devout Muslims.

I'll be honest with you...but that has been my impression in high school.  White or Black parents="Let them have fun."  FOB parents equal=I kill you and that other guy (literally or figuratively).

The examples you give of Muslim teenagers is an extreme and rare example, but I agree, it's possible.

Actually, surprisingly, her father is very Secular/Western, and even encourages her to date/mingle with friends and integrate into American society. In contrast, her mom is a religious Muslim (though she would allow her to date a muslim). The girl wears the hijab by choice is quiet religious but she picks and chooses the rules which she wants to follow.  

I am well aware of the fact that there is an over-emphasis on "miscellaneous having fun" in American High School (Black and White). Fun can be either good or bad. I pray that St. Anthony the Great will protect me from the "bad fun" and that God will deliver me from temptation everyday. Believe me, im not looking for any....."bad fun". But I also dont think that I will be getting married until im about 25 so I dont really think I should worry about it that much.

In comment to the comment made of the muslim honor killings....Like Minasoliman said, that is a VERY rare case and I think that most Arab parents would die protecting their children, especially her parents, and would not even think of killing their children (more Islamophobic media, I suppose). But It does happen on rare occasions, this is definitely NOT the case though.    
Again, what do YOUR parents say about this subject you're discussing with us?
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« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2012, 02:04:44 AM »

Mina, maybe this is a language thing, but what Orthonorm meant was clear to me:

The fact that he's having a little high-school relationship with a Muslim rather than an Christian does not increase the chances of more sin occurring.



 I understood quite well.  Sin is sin regardless.  But maybe it is a sin to date people whose religion is anti-Christian?  After all, our actions, behaviors and words should unite us to Christ.  Dating a non-Christian will definitely make that more challenging.
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« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2012, 02:07:26 AM »

This might help a little...
My ethnicity: im half Persian half Black. (This could affect somethings)
Im a convert to the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Both of my parents are okay with the possibility of us dating.
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« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2012, 02:10:33 AM »

Mina, maybe this is a language thing, but what Orthonorm meant was clear to me:

The fact that he's having a little high-school relationship with a Muslim rather than an Christian does not increase the chances of more sin occurring.

That's what the indicator "all that could happen" was for. Not to downplay sin.

Okay I stand corrected then. Yes I agree falling into sin is not limited to intereligious relationships, and neither did I forbid going to the movies or going for some coffee.  in the end I advocate learning to be a good friend, until one becomes much more mature to understand the real point of dating, which is a level of intimacy that leads to the possibility of a serious relationship.

I don't know.  There is a fine line here, and my only concern is to think it through.  One day one will be in a serious relationship, and one then has to look for not just compatibility but also how it affects one's salvation.  And if you take this a step further and so consider marriage, what of the children you'll bear and share.
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« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2012, 02:12:46 AM »

"White" = "Have fun"? Boy have been doing it wrong...  Smiley

High school or no high school, if you want to have an actual relationship (not some weird "down low" deal), wouldn't that involve meeting her parents eventually? And wouldn't they be very unhappy to see their daughter dating a non-believer? I just don't see how this could end or even progress well, barring the mass conversion of her family. There have already been several cases in the USA and Britain (and probably elsewhere) of the daughters of Muslim families being murdered for dating period, as it is seen as an immoral activity, to say nothing of dating a non-Muslim, which is certainly verboten.

I know, I know...it's just high school...but Sarah Said was just a teenager when she was murdered by her father in Texas for having a boyfriend. Tina Isa was only 16 when she was murdered by her (Palestinian immigrant) parents in St. Louis, Missouri for having a boyfriend. Unfortunately, the virulent hatred of all things Western on the part of extremely religious and conservative Muslims also extends to what would be seen by many non-Muslims as regular or innocuous parts of growing up, like high school dating.

Nobody should date Muslims, especially devout Muslims.

I'll be honest with you...but that has been my impression in high school.  White or Black parents="Let them have fun."  FOB parents equal=I kill you and that other guy (literally or figuratively).

The examples you give of Muslim teenagers is an extreme and rare example, but I agree, it's possible.

Actually, surprisingly, her father is very Secular/Western, and even encourages her to date/mingle with friends and integrate into American society. In contrast, her mom is a religious Muslim (though she would allow her to date a muslim). The girl wears the hijab by choice is quiet religious but she picks and chooses the rules which she wants to follow.  

I am well aware of the fact that there is an over-emphasis on "miscellaneous having fun" in American High School (Black and White). Fun can be either good or bad. I pray that St. Anthony the Great will protect me from the "bad fun" and that God will deliver me from temptation everyday. Believe me, im not looking for any....."bad fun". But I also dont think that I will be getting married until im about 25 so I dont really think I should worry about it that much.

In comment to the comment made of the muslim honor killings....Like Minasoliman said, that is a VERY rare case and I think that most Arab parents would die protecting their children, especially her parents, and would not even think of killing their children (more Islamophobic media, I suppose). But It does happen on rare occasions, this is definitely NOT the case though.    
Again, what do YOUR parents say about this subject you're discussing with us?

My parents actually asked me to ask other Orthodox people their opinion about this matter (my Mom suggested that I discuss this on the forum). Especially since they arent Orthodox and see no religious boundaries in relationship.
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« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2012, 02:20:01 AM »

My personal advice would be that you have fun going on little dates with an interesting young lady.
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« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2012, 02:21:53 AM »

"White" = "Have fun"? Boy have been doing it wrong...  Smiley

High school or no high school, if you want to have an actual relationship (not some weird "down low" deal), wouldn't that involve meeting her parents eventually? And wouldn't they be very unhappy to see their daughter dating a non-believer? I just don't see how this could end or even progress well, barring the mass conversion of her family. There have already been several cases in the USA and Britain (and probably elsewhere) of the daughters of Muslim families being murdered for dating period, as it is seen as an immoral activity, to say nothing of dating a non-Muslim, which is certainly verboten.

I know, I know...it's just high school...but Sarah Said was just a teenager when she was murdered by her father in Texas for having a boyfriend. Tina Isa was only 16 when she was murdered by her (Palestinian immigrant) parents in St. Louis, Missouri for having a boyfriend. Unfortunately, the virulent hatred of all things Western on the part of extremely religious and conservative Muslims also extends to what would be seen by many non-Muslims as regular or innocuous parts of growing up, like high school dating.

Nobody should date Muslims, especially devout Muslims.

I'll be honest with you...but that has been my impression in high school.  White or Black parents="Let them have fun."  FOB parents equal=I kill you and that other guy (literally or figuratively).

The examples you give of Muslim teenagers is an extreme and rare example, but I agree, it's possible.

Actually, surprisingly, her father is very Secular/Western, and even encourages her to date/mingle with friends and integrate into American society. In contrast, her mom is a religious Muslim (though she would allow her to date a muslim). The girl wears the hijab by choice is quiet religious but she picks and chooses the rules which she wants to follow.  

I am well aware of the fact that there is an over-emphasis on "miscellaneous having fun" in American High School (Black and White). Fun can be either good or bad. I pray that St. Anthony the Great will protect me from the "bad fun" and that God will deliver me from temptation everyday. Believe me, im not looking for any....."bad fun". But I also dont think that I will be getting married until im about 25 so I dont really think I should worry about it that much.

In comment to the comment made of the muslim honor killings....Like Minasoliman said, that is a VERY rare case and I think that most Arab parents would die protecting their children, especially her parents, and would not even think of killing their children (more Islamophobic media, I suppose). But It does happen on rare occasions, this is definitely NOT the case though.    
Again, what do YOUR parents say about this subject you're discussing with us?

My parents actually asked me to ask other Orthodox people their opinion about this matter (my Mom suggested that I discuss this on the forum). Especially since they arent Orthodox and see no religious boundaries in relationship.
Okay. I'm glad you sought your parents' advice on this. Smiley
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« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2012, 02:43:06 AM »

"White" = "Have fun"? Boy have been doing it wrong...  Smiley

High school or no high school, if you want to have an actual relationship (not some weird "down low" deal), wouldn't that involve meeting her parents eventually? And wouldn't they be very unhappy to see their daughter dating a non-believer? I just don't see how this could end or even progress well, barring the mass conversion of her family. There have already been several cases in the USA and Britain (and probably elsewhere) of the daughters of Muslim families being murdered for dating period, as it is seen as an immoral activity, to say nothing of dating a non-Muslim, which is certainly verboten.

I know, I know...it's just high school...but Sarah Said was just a teenager when she was murdered by her father in Texas for having a boyfriend. Tina Isa was only 16 when she was murdered by her (Palestinian immigrant) parents in St. Louis, Missouri for having a boyfriend. Unfortunately, the virulent hatred of all things Western on the part of extremely religious and conservative Muslims also extends to what would be seen by many non-Muslims as regular or innocuous parts of growing up, like high school dating.

Nobody should date Muslims, especially devout Muslims.

I'll be honest with you...but that has been my impression in high school.  White or Black parents="Let them have fun."  FOB parents equal=I kill you and that other guy (literally or figuratively).

The examples you give of Muslim teenagers is an extreme and rare example, but I agree, it's possible.

Actually, surprisingly, her father is very Secular/Western, and even encourages her to date/mingle with friends and integrate into American society. In contrast, her mom is a religious Muslim (though she would allow her to date a muslim). The girl wears the hijab by choice is quiet religious but she picks and chooses the rules which she wants to follow. 

I am well aware of the fact that there is an over-emphasis on "miscellaneous having fun" in American High School (Black and White). Fun can be either good or bad. I pray that St. Anthony the Great will protect me from the "bad fun" and that God will deliver me from temptation everyday. Believe me, im not looking for any....."bad fun". But I also dont think that I will be getting married until im about 25 so I dont really think I should worry about it that much.

In comment to the comment made of the muslim honor killings....Like Minasoliman said, that is a VERY rare case and I think that most Arab parents would die protecting their children, especially her parents, and would not even think of killing their children (more Islamophobic media, I suppose). But It does happen on rare occasions, this is definitely NOT the case though.   
Again, what do YOUR parents say about this subject you're discussing with us?

My parents actually asked me to ask other Orthodox people their opinion about this matter (my Mom suggested that I discuss this on the forum). Especially since they arent Orthodox and see no religious boundaries in relationship.
You're asking what would an Orthodox do?  I know this is cliche, but your priest knows you more than me.  If he says have fun, who am I to tell you don't date?

My experience is based on homogenous racial boundaries.  I wouldn't know how to judge based on your standards.

Whatever you do, keep Christ first.
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« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2012, 08:34:08 AM »

My ethnicity: im half Persian half Black.
Interesting mix.
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« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2012, 09:01:15 AM »

I'll deal with the obvious idiocy in this thread later, I mean that in strictest sense. Look up the word.

And the obvious animus toward a PERSON you don't know based on ideological caricatures.

And everyone work on your reading comprehension.

HE IS IN HIGH SCHOOL. I guess if she were magically Orthodox there would be NO TEMPTATION. AND NO SIN.

Wow. Now we know the answer to the entirety of the human condition: don't go for coffee or watch a movie with a Muslim girl when you are in high school.

If only we knew this sooner.

This is frankly embarrassing and the sorta thing that gives Christianity its worst name.

EDIT: Edit, I think the magic part is not being Muslim, not the Orthodox part. Sheesh.




I think that you are embarrassing yourself here by your seeming lack of knowledge of Muslim culture and, even more so, by your utter disregard to what could happen to the Muslim girl. Grow up!
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« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2012, 09:27:44 AM »

I'll deal with the obvious idiocy in this thread later, I mean that in strictest sense. Look up the word.

And the obvious animus toward a PERSON you don't know based on ideological caricatures.

And everyone work on your reading comprehension.

HE IS IN HIGH SCHOOL. I guess if she were magically Orthodox there would be NO TEMPTATION. AND NO SIN.

Wow. Now we know the answer to the entirety of the human condition: don't go for coffee or watch a movie with a Muslim girl when you are in high school.

If only we knew this sooner.

This is frankly embarrassing and the sorta thing that gives Christianity its worst name.

EDIT: Edit, I think the magic part is not being Muslim, not the Orthodox part. Sheesh.




I think that you are embarrassing yourself here by your seeming lack of knowledge of Muslim culture and, even more so, by your utter disregard to what could happen to the Muslim girl. Grow up!

Just like you embarassed yourself by not reading the whole thread and seeing this bit about the person in question:

Quote
Actually, surprisingly, her father is very Secular/Western, and even encourages her to date/mingle with friends and integrate into American society. In contrast, her mom is a religious Muslim (though she would allow her to date a muslim). The girl wears the hijab by choice is quiet religious but she picks and chooses the rules which she wants to follow. 

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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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