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Jetavan
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« on: October 25, 2011, 12:09:03 AM »

One reason why Catholics continue to remain loyal to Catholicism while skeptical of some of its teachings and practices is that there are many aspects of Catholicism that they find meaningful. In response to a new question we introduced in the 2011 survey, very large majorities indicate that the Mass (84 percent) and the grace of the other sacraments (80 percent) are meaningful to them, and similarly high proportions find meaning in various aspects of the church’s tradition, such as the fact that the church is universal (85 percent), and that it is part of an unbroken tradition dating back to the apostles (80 percent). Fewer, though still close to three-quarters (71 percent), find meaning in the papacy. Clearly, Catholics can disagree with the pope and dissent from Vatican teaching on various issues and, at the same time, value the historical and symbolic significance of the papacy. Similarly, they can also disagree with or make moral judgments that contravene church teaching and yet also respect the church’s moral stance. Thus, for example, although six in 10 Catholics, as noted earlier, think that a person can be a good Catholic without helping the poor and without agreeing with church teaching on abortion, very large majorities nonetheless also say that it is meaningful for them that the church shows active concern for the poor (88 percent), and that it is willing to stand up for the right to life of the unborn (72 percent).

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Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2011, 10:04:27 AM »

One reason why Catholics continue to remain loyal to Catholicism while skeptical of some of its teachings and practices is that there are many aspects of Catholicism that they find meaningful. In response to a new question we introduced in the 2011 survey, very large majorities indicate that the Mass (84 percent) and the grace of the other sacraments (80 percent) are meaningful to them, and similarly high proportions find meaning in various aspects of the church’s tradition, such as the fact that the church is universal (85 percent), and that it is part of an unbroken tradition dating back to the apostles (80 percent). Fewer, though still close to three-quarters (71 percent), find meaning in the papacy. Clearly, Catholics can disagree with the pope and dissent from Vatican teaching on various issues and, at the same time, value the historical and symbolic significance of the papacy. Similarly, they can also disagree with or make moral judgments that contravene church teaching and yet also respect the church’s moral stance. Thus, for example, although six in 10 Catholics, as noted earlier, think that a person can be a good Catholic without helping the poor and without agreeing with church teaching on abortion, very large majorities nonetheless also say that it is meaningful for them that the church shows active concern for the poor (88 percent), and that it is willing to stand up for the right to life of the unborn (72 percent).



Pretty much everyone knows that there is a fairly wide variety of "opinion" on various issues in the Catholic Church.  Some of these views, unfortunately, are at a variance with Catholic teaching, and stem from bad catechesis and a willingness to stay attached to the spirit of this world.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  Is there something new here?
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2011, 10:20:25 AM »

One reason why Catholics continue to remain loyal to Catholicism while skeptical of some of its teachings and practices is that there are many aspects of Catholicism that they find meaningful. In response to a new question we introduced in the 2011 survey, very large majorities indicate that the Mass (84 percent) and the grace of the other sacraments (80 percent) are meaningful to them, and similarly high proportions find meaning in various aspects of the church’s tradition, such as the fact that the church is universal (85 percent), and that it is part of an unbroken tradition dating back to the apostles (80 percent). Fewer, though still close to three-quarters (71 percent), find meaning in the papacy. Clearly, Catholics can disagree with the pope and dissent from Vatican teaching on various issues and, at the same time, value the historical and symbolic significance of the papacy. Similarly, they can also disagree with or make moral judgments that contravene church teaching and yet also respect the church’s moral stance. Thus, for example, although six in 10 Catholics, as noted earlier, think that a person can be a good Catholic without helping the poor and without agreeing with church teaching on abortion, very large majorities nonetheless also say that it is meaningful for them that the church shows active concern for the poor (88 percent), and that it is willing to stand up for the right to life of the unborn (72 percent).



Pretty much everyone knows that there is a fairly wide variety of "opinion" on various issues in the Catholic Church.  Some of these views, unfortunately, are at a variance with Catholic teaching, and stem from bad catechesis and a willingness to stay attached to the spirit of this world.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  Is there something new here?
These are the results of a recent, wide-ranging survey of American Catholics. Hard data, man, hard data! Wink
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
J Michael
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2011, 10:46:40 AM »

One reason why Catholics continue to remain loyal to Catholicism while skeptical of some of its teachings and practices is that there are many aspects of Catholicism that they find meaningful. In response to a new question we introduced in the 2011 survey, very large majorities indicate that the Mass (84 percent) and the grace of the other sacraments (80 percent) are meaningful to them, and similarly high proportions find meaning in various aspects of the church’s tradition, such as the fact that the church is universal (85 percent), and that it is part of an unbroken tradition dating back to the apostles (80 percent). Fewer, though still close to three-quarters (71 percent), find meaning in the papacy. Clearly, Catholics can disagree with the pope and dissent from Vatican teaching on various issues and, at the same time, value the historical and symbolic significance of the papacy. Similarly, they can also disagree with or make moral judgments that contravene church teaching and yet also respect the church’s moral stance. Thus, for example, although six in 10 Catholics, as noted earlier, think that a person can be a good Catholic without helping the poor and without agreeing with church teaching on abortion, very large majorities nonetheless also say that it is meaningful for them that the church shows active concern for the poor (88 percent), and that it is willing to stand up for the right to life of the unborn (72 percent).



Pretty much everyone knows that there is a fairly wide variety of "opinion" on various issues in the Catholic Church.  Some of these views, unfortunately, are at a variance with Catholic teaching, and stem from bad catechesis and a willingness to stay attached to the spirit of this world.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  Is there something new here?
These are the results of a recent, wide-ranging survey of American Catholics. Hard data, man, hard data! Wink

Yes, I get that.  But what's your *point*??  Besides, any "hard data" can be skewed in many different ways depending on which questions are asked, which questions are not asked, how the questions are worded, and what the underlying aim(s) of those gathering and interpreting the data is/are.  What's the saying, "Statistics don't lie, statisticians do"?  Check this out: http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728

Also, how does what you've posted fit with the stated purpose of this particular forum, i.e. "Discussion of issues which unite and divide the Orthodox Church and the Roman/Eastern Catholic churches (in Communion with Rome)"?
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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2011, 10:49:40 AM »

One reason why Catholics continue to remain loyal to Catholicism while skeptical of some of its teachings and practices is that there are many aspects of Catholicism that they find meaningful. In response to a new question we introduced in the 2011 survey, very large majorities indicate that the Mass (84 percent) and the grace of the other sacraments (80 percent) are meaningful to them, and similarly high proportions find meaning in various aspects of the church’s tradition, such as the fact that the church is universal (85 percent), and that it is part of an unbroken tradition dating back to the apostles (80 percent). Fewer, though still close to three-quarters (71 percent), find meaning in the papacy. Clearly, Catholics can disagree with the pope and dissent from Vatican teaching on various issues and, at the same time, value the historical and symbolic significance of the papacy. Similarly, they can also disagree with or make moral judgments that contravene church teaching and yet also respect the church’s moral stance. Thus, for example, although six in 10 Catholics, as noted earlier, think that a person can be a good Catholic without helping the poor and without agreeing with church teaching on abortion, very large majorities nonetheless also say that it is meaningful for them that the church shows active concern for the poor (88 percent), and that it is willing to stand up for the right to life of the unborn (72 percent).



Pretty much everyone knows that there is a fairly wide variety of "opinion" on various issues in the Catholic Church.  Some of these views, unfortunately, are at a variance with Catholic teaching, and stem from bad catechesis and a willingness to stay attached to the spirit of this world.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  Is there something new here?
These are the results of a recent, wide-ranging survey of American Catholics. Hard data, man, hard data! Wink

Yes, I get that.  But what's your *point*??  Besides, any "hard data" can be skewed in many different ways depending on which questions are asked, which questions are not asked, how the questions are worded, and what the underlying aim(s) of those gathering and interpreting the data is/are.  What's the saying, "Statistics don't lie, statisticians do"?  Check this out: http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728

Also, how does what you've posted fit with the stated purpose of this particular forum, i.e. "Discussion of issues which unite and divide the Orthodox Church and the Roman/Eastern Catholic churches (in Communion with Rome)"?
Any future "re-union" of Catholicism and Orthodoxy will have to address these issues concerning faith in the pews.
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
J Michael
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2011, 11:10:27 AM »

One reason why Catholics continue to remain loyal to Catholicism while skeptical of some of its teachings and practices is that there are many aspects of Catholicism that they find meaningful. In response to a new question we introduced in the 2011 survey, very large majorities indicate that the Mass (84 percent) and the grace of the other sacraments (80 percent) are meaningful to them, and similarly high proportions find meaning in various aspects of the church’s tradition, such as the fact that the church is universal (85 percent), and that it is part of an unbroken tradition dating back to the apostles (80 percent). Fewer, though still close to three-quarters (71 percent), find meaning in the papacy. Clearly, Catholics can disagree with the pope and dissent from Vatican teaching on various issues and, at the same time, value the historical and symbolic significance of the papacy. Similarly, they can also disagree with or make moral judgments that contravene church teaching and yet also respect the church’s moral stance. Thus, for example, although six in 10 Catholics, as noted earlier, think that a person can be a good Catholic without helping the poor and without agreeing with church teaching on abortion, very large majorities nonetheless also say that it is meaningful for them that the church shows active concern for the poor (88 percent), and that it is willing to stand up for the right to life of the unborn (72 percent).



Pretty much everyone knows that there is a fairly wide variety of "opinion" on various issues in the Catholic Church.  Some of these views, unfortunately, are at a variance with Catholic teaching, and stem from bad catechesis and a willingness to stay attached to the spirit of this world.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  Is there something new here?
These are the results of a recent, wide-ranging survey of American Catholics. Hard data, man, hard data! Wink

Yes, I get that.  But what's your *point*??  Besides, any "hard data" can be skewed in many different ways depending on which questions are asked, which questions are not asked, how the questions are worded, and what the underlying aim(s) of those gathering and interpreting the data is/are.  What's the saying, "Statistics don't lie, statisticians do"?  Check this out: http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728

Also, how does what you've posted fit with the stated purpose of this particular forum, i.e. "Discussion of issues which unite and divide the Orthodox Church and the Roman/Eastern Catholic churches (in Communion with Rome)"?
Any future "re-union" of Catholicism and Orthodoxy will have to address these issues concerning faith in the pews.

Did you read *all* of my post, especially the part about "what's your point", and about statistics?

Perhaps Orthodox should concern themselves with "faith in the pews" of Orthodox and leave Catholics to concern themselves with Catholic "faith in the pews".  I know plenty of Orthodox who question and/or fail to follow any number of the teachings of the Orthodox Church, priests included.

If I'm not mistaken, re-union is quite likely a long way off, and plenty can change, for good and bad, amongst Catholics and Orthodox, well before it even approaches being a reality.  So, maybe it would be a good idea if we concentrate on removing the planks from our own eyes (and I mean all of us) rather than pointing out the deficiencies of the other.  Perhaps that way both Catholics and Orthodox will be better off.  Just sayin'  Wink.

I get the feeling you're just trying to stir a pot here.   

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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 11:13:30 AM »

One reason why Catholics continue to remain loyal to Catholicism while skeptical of some of its teachings and practices is that there are many aspects of Catholicism that they find meaningful. In response to a new question we introduced in the 2011 survey, very large majorities indicate that the Mass (84 percent) and the grace of the other sacraments (80 percent) are meaningful to them, and similarly high proportions find meaning in various aspects of the church’s tradition, such as the fact that the church is universal (85 percent), and that it is part of an unbroken tradition dating back to the apostles (80 percent). Fewer, though still close to three-quarters (71 percent), find meaning in the papacy. Clearly, Catholics can disagree with the pope and dissent from Vatican teaching on various issues and, at the same time, value the historical and symbolic significance of the papacy. Similarly, they can also disagree with or make moral judgments that contravene church teaching and yet also respect the church’s moral stance. Thus, for example, although six in 10 Catholics, as noted earlier, think that a person can be a good Catholic without helping the poor and without agreeing with church teaching on abortion, very large majorities nonetheless also say that it is meaningful for them that the church shows active concern for the poor (88 percent), and that it is willing to stand up for the right to life of the unborn (72 percent).



Pretty much everyone knows that there is a fairly wide variety of "opinion" on various issues in the Catholic Church.  Some of these views, unfortunately, are at a variance with Catholic teaching, and stem from bad catechesis and a willingness to stay attached to the spirit of this world.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  Is there something new here?
These are the results of a recent, wide-ranging survey of American Catholics. Hard data, man, hard data! Wink

Yes, I get that.  But what's your *point*??  Besides, any "hard data" can be skewed in many different ways depending on which questions are asked, which questions are not asked, how the questions are worded, and what the underlying aim(s) of those gathering and interpreting the data is/are.  What's the saying, "Statistics don't lie, statisticians do"?  Check this out: http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728

Also, how does what you've posted fit with the stated purpose of this particular forum, i.e. "Discussion of issues which unite and divide the Orthodox Church and the Roman/Eastern Catholic churches (in Communion with Rome)"?
Any future "re-union" of Catholicism and Orthodoxy will have to address these issues concerning faith in the pews.

Did you read *all* of my post, especially the part about "what's your point", and about statistics?

Perhaps Orthodox should concern themselves with "faith in the pews" of Orthodox and leave Catholics to concern themselves with Catholic "faith in the pews".  I know plenty of Orthodox who question and/or fail to follow any number of the teachings of the Orthodox Church, priests included.

If I'm not mistaken, re-union is quite likely a long way off, and plenty can change, for good and bad, amongst Catholics and Orthodox, well before it even approaches being a reality.  So, maybe it would be a good idea if we concentrate on removing the planks from our own eyes (and I mean all of us) rather than pointing out the deficiencies of the other.  Perhaps that way both Catholics and Orthodox will be better off.  Just sayin'  Wink.

I get the feeling you're just trying to stir a pot here.   
The pot has been stirring for a thousand years. Wink
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
J Michael
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2011, 11:20:15 AM »

One reason why Catholics continue to remain loyal to Catholicism while skeptical of some of its teachings and practices is that there are many aspects of Catholicism that they find meaningful. In response to a new question we introduced in the 2011 survey, very large majorities indicate that the Mass (84 percent) and the grace of the other sacraments (80 percent) are meaningful to them, and similarly high proportions find meaning in various aspects of the church’s tradition, such as the fact that the church is universal (85 percent), and that it is part of an unbroken tradition dating back to the apostles (80 percent). Fewer, though still close to three-quarters (71 percent), find meaning in the papacy. Clearly, Catholics can disagree with the pope and dissent from Vatican teaching on various issues and, at the same time, value the historical and symbolic significance of the papacy. Similarly, they can also disagree with or make moral judgments that contravene church teaching and yet also respect the church’s moral stance. Thus, for example, although six in 10 Catholics, as noted earlier, think that a person can be a good Catholic without helping the poor and without agreeing with church teaching on abortion, very large majorities nonetheless also say that it is meaningful for them that the church shows active concern for the poor (88 percent), and that it is willing to stand up for the right to life of the unborn (72 percent).



Pretty much everyone knows that there is a fairly wide variety of "opinion" on various issues in the Catholic Church.  Some of these views, unfortunately, are at a variance with Catholic teaching, and stem from bad catechesis and a willingness to stay attached to the spirit of this world.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.  Is there something new here?
These are the results of a recent, wide-ranging survey of American Catholics. Hard data, man, hard data! Wink

Yes, I get that.  But what's your *point*??  Besides, any "hard data" can be skewed in many different ways depending on which questions are asked, which questions are not asked, how the questions are worded, and what the underlying aim(s) of those gathering and interpreting the data is/are.  What's the saying, "Statistics don't lie, statisticians do"?  Check this out: http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statistics-Darrell-Huff/dp/0393310728

Also, how does what you've posted fit with the stated purpose of this particular forum, i.e. "Discussion of issues which unite and divide the Orthodox Church and the Roman/Eastern Catholic churches (in Communion with Rome)"?
Any future "re-union" of Catholicism and Orthodoxy will have to address these issues concerning faith in the pews.

Did you read *all* of my post, especially the part about "what's your point", and about statistics?

Perhaps Orthodox should concern themselves with "faith in the pews" of Orthodox and leave Catholics to concern themselves with Catholic "faith in the pews".  I know plenty of Orthodox who question and/or fail to follow any number of the teachings of the Orthodox Church, priests included.

If I'm not mistaken, re-union is quite likely a long way off, and plenty can change, for good and bad, amongst Catholics and Orthodox, well before it even approaches being a reality.  So, maybe it would be a good idea if we concentrate on removing the planks from our own eyes (and I mean all of us) rather than pointing out the deficiencies of the other.  Perhaps that way both Catholics and Orthodox will be better off.  Just sayin'  Wink.

I get the feeling you're just trying to stir a pot here.   
The pot has been stirring for a thousand years. Wink

Nice dodge  Wink.

But...........what.  is.  your.  point???  Or, are you just taking the opportunity to point out a problem or problems with someone *else* without offering constructive solutions that might actually work, rather than looking in your own backyard, so to speak, and cleaning up the messes there?
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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2011, 11:45:28 AM »

Getting ready to see my favorite cafeteria Catholic.

She keyed into the fact something was up with me by my eating habits. She asked one day if I were Jewish. I told her I was looking into Orthodoxy.

She was delighted.

She has been praying for me since and is waiting to see if I managed not to sleep through my Chrismation.

In short, I love the cafeteria Catholic I know.

Oh, and I know she works a minimum wage job which starts at 5AM and goes to 1PM and then rushes to help out at one of the local Catholic school after school programs and is frequently at a food bank or helping manage the distribution of larger donated items to those in need.

In short, she is the sorta Catholic woman who represents many such women who have given disproportionately to this country.

Thank God for cafeteria Catholics.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 11:46:10 AM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2011, 11:51:04 AM »

Getting ready to see my favorite cafeteria Catholic.

She keyed into the fact something was up with me by my eating habits. She asked one day if I were Jewish. I told her I was looking into Orthodoxy.

She was delighted.

She has been praying for me since and is waiting to see if I managed not to sleep through my Chrismation.

In short, I love the cafeteria Catholic I know.

Oh, and I know she works a minimum wage job which starts at 5AM and goes to 1PM and then rushes to help out at one of the local Catholic school after school programs and is frequently at a food bank or helping manage the distribution of larger donated items to those in need.

In short, she is the sorta Catholic woman who represents many such women who have given disproportionately to this country.

Thank God for cafeteria Catholics.

Good for her!!  And good for you!!  And may God bless all the food in the cafeteria!!  "Bless us oh Lord, and these Thy gifts, which we are about to receive, through Christ, Our Lord, Amen."  Wink
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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2011, 03:56:52 PM »

Any future "re-union" of Catholicism and Orthodoxy will have to address these issues concerning faith in the pews.

You can find people with these issues in any church.

That being said, I don't think this is a stumbling block to reunion and most certainly can't be addressed by theologians. This is primarily the job of the parish priest with the cooperation of his congregation.
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And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2011, 04:09:48 PM »

One reason why Catholics continue to remain loyal to Catholicism while skeptical of some of its teachings and practices is that there are many aspects of Catholicism that they find meaningful. In response to a new question we introduced in the 2011 survey, very large majorities indicate that the Mass (84 percent) and the grace of the other sacraments (80 percent) are meaningful to them, and similarly high proportions find meaning in various aspects of the church’s tradition, such as the fact that the church is universal (85 percent), and that it is part of an unbroken tradition dating back to the apostles (80 percent). Fewer, though still close to three-quarters (71 percent), find meaning in the papacy. Clearly, Catholics can disagree with the pope and dissent from Vatican teaching on various issues and, at the same time, value the historical and symbolic significance of the papacy. Similarly, they can also disagree with or make moral judgments that contravene church teaching and yet also respect the church’s moral stance. Thus, for example, although six in 10 Catholics, as noted earlier, think that a person can be a good Catholic without helping the poor and without agreeing with church teaching on abortion, very large majorities nonetheless also say that it is meaningful for them that the church shows active concern for the poor (88 percent), and that it is willing to stand up for the right to life of the unborn (72 percent).


so we and the Episcopalians can divy them up?
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2011, 10:07:33 AM »


But...........what.  is.  your.  point???  Or, are you just taking the opportunity to point out a problem or problems with someone *else* without offering constructive solutions that might actually work, rather than looking in your own backyard, so to speak, and cleaning up the messes there?
Actually, I just think this survey offers some really interesting  data. Do you have something against cafeteria Catholics? Wink
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 11:06:31 AM »

Getting ready to see my favorite cafeteria Catholic.

She keyed into the fact something was up with me by my eating habits. She asked one day if I were Jewish. I told her I was looking into Orthodoxy.

She was delighted.

She has been praying for me since and is waiting to see if I managed not to sleep through my Chrismation.

In short, I love the cafeteria Catholic I know.

Oh, and I know she works a minimum wage job which starts at 5AM and goes to 1PM and then rushes to help out at one of the local Catholic school after school programs and is frequently at a food bank or helping manage the distribution of larger donated items to those in need.

In short, she is the sorta Catholic woman who represents many such women who have given disproportionately to this country.

Thank God for cafeteria Catholics.

and before we get too carried away with 'ourselves' as Orthodox, there are plenty of 'cafeteria' Orthodox as well. When I read too much into comments on threads like this, I always think back to the Triodon and the Sunday of the Publican.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 11:06:44 AM by podkarpatska » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2011, 11:24:13 AM »


But...........what.  is.  your.  point???  Or, are you just taking the opportunity to point out a problem or problems with someone *else* without offering constructive solutions that might actually work, rather than looking in your own backyard, so to speak, and cleaning up the messes there?
Actually, I just think this survey offers some really interesting  data. Do you have something against cafeteria Catholics? Wink

The data may or may not be interesting.  So what?  I have nothing against either "cafeteria Catholics" (a term usually used pejoratively, btw), or against "cafeteria Orthodox".  I try to do my very best to live a good, Catholic Christian life, often failing miserably, and hope and pray that others are doing their very best, too-Catholic, Orthodox, whatever.

And you *STILL* haven't stated what your point is.  Amazing!  I'm guessing you just don't have one.  If you *do*, having asked you several times already, why won't you tell us what it is?
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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2011, 11:33:09 AM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.
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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2011, 11:45:54 AM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Funny...that's what both I and podkarpatska have told him, too, just in different words!

I guess there are some who, without having any worthwhile point to make, just like to find a pot and stir it, eh?  Sad, really.

Perhaps we can now consider this particular pot sufficiently stirred and move on to something worthwhile  Grin.
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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2011, 11:56:18 AM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Funny...that's what both I and podkarpatska have told him, too, just in different words!

I guess there are some who, without having any worthwhile point to make, just like to find a pot and stir it, eh?  Sad, really.

Perhaps we can now consider this particular pot sufficiently stirred and move on to something worthwhile  Grin.
I think you're assuming I'm Orthodox, which I'm not. I'm just an interested observer noting the complexities of what it means to be Christian in a post-racial America. Roll Eyes
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Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2011, 12:01:50 PM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Funny...that's what both I and podkarpatska have told him, too, just in different words!

I guess there are some who, without having any worthwhile point to make, just like to find a pot and stir it, eh?  Sad, really.

Perhaps we can now consider this particular pot sufficiently stirred and move on to something worthwhile  Grin.
I think you're assuming I'm Orthodox, which I'm not. I'm just an interested observer noting the complexities of what it means to be Christian in a post-racial America. Roll Eyes

Oy vey.

And still no point.

Btw, it doesn't matter if you're Orthodox or not.  *Whatever* you are, it's still best to take the plank out of your own eye before worrying about the splinter in your neighbor's--you know, all those "post-racial" American Christians.
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« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2011, 12:23:46 PM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Funny...that's what both I and podkarpatska have told him, too, just in different words!

I guess there are some who, without having any worthwhile point to make, just like to find a pot and stir it, eh?  Sad, really.

Perhaps we can now consider this particular pot sufficiently stirred and move on to something worthwhile  Grin.
I think you're assuming I'm Orthodox, which I'm not. I'm just an interested observer noting the complexities of what it means to be Christian in a post-racial America. Roll Eyes

Oy vey.

And still no point.

Btw, it doesn't matter if you're Orthodox or not.  *Whatever* you are, it's still best to take the plank out of your own eye before worrying about the splinter in your neighbor's--you know, all those "post-racial" American Christians.
I'm not "worried" about my neighbor who may happen to be a cafeteria Catholic. May cafeteria Catholics live long and prosper! [insert Vulcan mudra here] But I am interested (and I think others are) of the complex, often messy, never boring, dynamics of a living faith.
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2011, 12:39:31 PM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Funny...that's what both I and podkarpatska have told him, too, just in different words!

I guess there are some who, without having any worthwhile point to make, just like to find a pot and stir it, eh?  Sad, really.

Perhaps we can now consider this particular pot sufficiently stirred and move on to something worthwhile  Grin.

Wonderful idea. Don't know how well ideas like that actually fly around here. Something worthwhile? Pshh  Wink
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« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2011, 12:42:59 PM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Funny...that's what both I and podkarpatska have told him, too, just in different words!

I guess there are some who, without having any worthwhile point to make, just like to find a pot and stir it, eh?  Sad, really.

Perhaps we can now consider this particular pot sufficiently stirred and move on to something worthwhile  Grin.

Wonderful idea. Don't know how well ideas like that actually fly around here. Something worthwhile? Pshh  Wink

Okay...you got me on that  Grin Grin Grin!
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« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2011, 01:39:09 PM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Yeah, but then the board would collapse.  Tongue
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« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2011, 03:44:49 PM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Yeah, but then the board would collapse.  Tongue

And that would be:

A) Bad?
or
B) Good?
or
C) Who cares?

 Tongue Grin
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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
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« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2011, 10:22:41 AM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Yeah, but then the board would collapse.  Tongue

And that would be:

A) Bad?
or
B) Good?
or
C) Who cares?

 Tongue Grin
I choose "A." At least when the Eastern Orthodox bash us it gives the Protestants a chance to take a break. Tongue
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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2011, 05:26:03 PM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Yeah, but then the board would collapse.  Tongue

And that would be:

A) Bad?
or
B) Good?
or
C) Who cares?

 Tongue Grin
I choose "A." At least when the Eastern Orthodox bash us it gives the Protestants a chance to take a break. Tongue

That's based on the quite possibly erroneous assumption that EO's only bash us when Protestants don't and vice versa  Grin.  What would your answer be if you knew we were being simultaneously bashed by both  Grin Grin?

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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2011, 05:31:15 PM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Yeah, but then the board would collapse.  Tongue

And that would be:

A) Bad?
or
B) Good?
or
C) Who cares?

 Tongue Grin
I choose "A." At least when the Eastern Orthodox bash us it gives the Protestants a chance to take a break. Tongue

That's based on the quite possibly erroneous assumption that EO's only bash us when Protestants don't and vice versa  Grin.  What would your answer be if you knew we were being simultaneously bashed by both  Grin Grin?
martyr complex much?
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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2011, 05:35:17 PM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Yeah, but then the board would collapse.  Tongue

And that would be:

A) Bad?
or
B) Good?
or
C) Who cares?

 Tongue Grin
I choose "A." At least when the Eastern Orthodox bash us it gives the Protestants a chance to take a break. Tongue

That's based on the quite possibly erroneous assumption that EO's only bash us when Protestants don't and vice versa  Grin.  What would your answer be if you knew we were being simultaneously bashed by both  Grin Grin?
martyr complex much?

Nope, not at all.  But, when you're bashed, you're bashed. 

By the way, where's your sense of humor?  Cool
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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2011, 05:58:41 PM »

LOL- yeah, been bashed by just about everybody . Catholics have to be tough!

  The funniest was my cousin's Byzantine Catholic wedding.  Her fiance', the son of a elder in a evangelical/pentocostal church, didn't want to be married in a Catholic church.  But his parents were so mean to my cousin once they learned she was Catholic that he gave up fighting with his parents and decided to go ahead with a Catholic ceremony.

The video of this was priceless: on one side was my big, happy, slightly crazy family ( of Roman and Byzantine Catholic faith plus some Ukrainian Orthodox) and everybody was clearly happy to be attending a wedding.  Then on the groom's side in came all the sullen pentocostals. Almost all had scowls on their faces, especially the pastor, and clearly acted like they were going to witness a satanic ritual.   The contrast between the two sides was striking.  The only one on that side who really liked it was the Jewish doctor that employed the groom's mother. :-) He expressed how lovely it was, especially all the references from the Old Testament. :-)
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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2011, 06:10:00 PM »

LOL- yeah, been bashed by just about everybody . Catholics have to be tough!

  The funniest was my cousin's Byzantine Catholic wedding.  Her fiance', the son of a elder in a evangelical/pentocostal church, didn't want to be married in a Catholic church.  But his parents were so mean to my cousin once they learned she was Catholic that he gave up fighting with his parents and decided to go ahead with a Catholic ceremony.

The video of this was priceless: on one side was my big, happy, slightly crazy family ( of Roman and Byzantine Catholic faith plus some Ukrainian Orthodox) and everybody was clearly happy to be attending a wedding.  Then on the groom's side in came all the sullen pentocostals. Almost all had scowls on their faces, especially the pastor, and clearly acted like they were going to witness a satanic ritual.   The contrast between the two sides was striking.  The only one on that side who really liked it was the Jewish doctor that employed the groom's mother. :-) He expressed how lovely it was, especially all the references from the Old Testament. :-)

I saw something similar at an Orthodox wedding.  Only, it was mainly the Orthodox (those few who showed up, that is) scowling and the Protestant and Catholic families and friends smiling and having a wonderful time.  Go figger...
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« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2011, 06:17:53 PM »

Gee, that's odd.... I never saw Orthodox or Catholics act like that!
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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2011, 06:20:08 PM »

Gee, that's odd.... I never saw Orthodox or Catholics act like that!

Let's just say that there was a lot going on in that particular parish and leave it at that.  And yes, it was odd.  Very odd.

(But hey, at least no one was getting bashed--well, physically, anyway  Grin)
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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
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« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2011, 01:15:13 AM »

Instead of worrying about the weeds in our neighbor's garden, perhaps we should worry about the weeds in our own.

Yeah, but then the board would collapse.  Tongue

And that would be:

A) Bad?
or
B) Good?
or
C) Who cares?

 Tongue Grin
I choose "A." At least when the Eastern Orthodox bash us it gives the Protestants a chance to take a break. Tongue

That's based on the quite possibly erroneous assumption that EO's only bash us when Protestants don't and vice versa  Grin.  What would your answer be if you knew we were being simultaneously bashed by both  Grin Grin?
martyr complex much?
It's not a martyr complex when it's actually happening.
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