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Author Topic: Lust and other matters--Re: Interesting development in the OCA  (Read 1501 times) Average Rating: 0
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IsmiLiora
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« on: August 10, 2011, 02:19:09 PM »

I prefer Ani Difranc -- OOPS!  Embarrassed Busted.

P.S. I do like showtunes, actually. Orthonorm was giving me **** about which ones I like on the other thread. I think it's "okay" to like them if you're a singer, though.  Tongue

Which thread was this?  Because I need to give Mr. Orthonorm a piece of my mind...ala Ethel Merman.

It's on the "What Are you Listening To" thread back there. But it seems like you like the classics. I like a mix of both the older musicals and some of the newer stuff. We might disagree too. Wink
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2011, 02:24:10 PM »

If someone tried to defend lying as a perfectly natural action people would be just as up in arms about it as they are when homosexuality is given that pass. If everyone agreed that homosexuality is a distortion as much as hate or greed is, then there would be a lot less threads about it. Things are suddenly much less interesting when everyone agrees.

This is really the whole point, and it is why we get hung up on this issue. Not because we view it as a greater sin, or a greater issue, but because so many would minimize it.

Far more minimize usury (ie credit cards) than homosexuality.  There are dozens of canons about usury.  Where's the outcry about that?  Divorce numbers are obscene in this country.  While the Orthodox Church allows for such a thing, it is also patently clear that it is a sin and lamentable.  More Orthodox go to great lengths to defend divorce (esp. online vis-a-vis RCs) than who lambast this practice.

I agree with everything you've said, but how does that have any effect on how one should feel about homosexuality? All of those things are big problems, yes, and warrant discussion. Start one.

It's as if I said that the New England Patriots are a good football team, and you responded by saying, "but the Eagles are good, too!" This, while true, doesn't negate the fact that the Patriots are good. If I said, "the Patriots are undeniably going to win the Super Bowl", then there would be an argument, just like if I had said, "homosexuality is the gravest sin of our time, and the only one worth addressing", you would have an argument, but no one said this.

My point is that the way people go on and on and on and on (to the point where we once had to have a moratorium on homosexuality on OC.net!) is that while it may not explicitly be stated that it's the gravest sin, it is implicitly acted as if it is such.  Note that people such as myself, who do not deny and even actively say that homosexual acts are objectively sinful and against the law of God, get absolutely and utterly sick of hearing about it.  Who on here exalts the practice?  Who even brings it up in a positive light first?  The only time it is mentioned on here is in yet another post whereby we hear someone condemn it once again.

I ignore 99% of them.  For some reason, this one put me over the edge.
I can understand why. Someone brings up the idea that Mark Stokoe was removed from his seat on the Metropolitan Council for ethical reasons connected to the publication of possibly stolen emails and not for reasons tied to his alleged homosexual orientation, yet no one wants to address the ethical charges. The discussion of homosexuality goes on unabated.

You must be gay, too, PtA.  You just want to sweep the gay under the rug. Wink
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2011, 02:26:19 PM »

If someone tried to defend lying as a perfectly natural action people would be just as up in arms about it as they are when homosexuality is given that pass. If everyone agreed that homosexuality is a distortion as much as hate or greed is, then there would be a lot less threads about it. Things are suddenly much less interesting when everyone agrees.

This is really the whole point, and it is why we get hung up on this issue. Not because we view it as a greater sin, or a greater issue, but because so many would minimize it.

Far more minimize usury (ie credit cards) than homosexuality.  There are dozens of canons about usury.  Where's the outcry about that?  Divorce numbers are obscene in this country.  While the Orthodox Church allows for such a thing, it is also patently clear that it is a sin and lamentable.  More Orthodox go to great lengths to defend divorce (esp. online vis-a-vis RCs) than who lambast this practice.

I agree with everything you've said, but how does that have any effect on how one should feel about homosexuality? All of those things are big problems, yes, and warrant discussion. Start one.

It's as if I said that the New England Patriots are a good football team, and you responded by saying, "but the Eagles are good, too!" This, while true, doesn't negate the fact that the Patriots are good. If I said, "the Patriots are undeniably going to win the Super Bowl", then there would be an argument, just like if I had said, "homosexuality is the gravest sin of our time, and the only one worth addressing", you would have an argument, but no one said this.

My point is that the way people go on and on and on and on (to the point where we once had to have a moratorium on homosexuality on OC.net!) is that while it may not explicitly be stated that it's the gravest sin, it is implicitly acted as if it is such.  Note that people such as myself, who do not deny and even actively say that homosexual acts are objectively sinful and against the law of God, get absolutely and utterly sick of hearing about it.  Who on here exalts the practice?  Who even brings it up in a positive light first?  The only time it is mentioned on here is in yet another post whereby we hear someone condemn it once again.

I ignore 99% of them.  For some reason, this one put me over the edge.
I can understand why. Someone brings up the idea that Mark Stokoe was removed from his seat on the Metropolitan Council for ethical reasons connected to the publication of possibly stolen emails and not for reasons tied to his alleged homosexual orientation, yet no one wants to address the ethical charges. The discussion of homosexuality goes on unabated.

You must be gay, too, PtA.  You just want to sweep the gay under the rug. Wink
Yeah, there must be a reason why I'm almost 40 and never been laid. Wink
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2011, 02:29:49 PM »

If someone tried to defend lying as a perfectly natural action people would be just as up in arms about it as they are when homosexuality is given that pass. If everyone agreed that homosexuality is a distortion as much as hate or greed is, then there would be a lot less threads about it. Things are suddenly much less interesting when everyone agrees.

This is really the whole point, and it is why we get hung up on this issue. Not because we view it as a greater sin, or a greater issue, but because so many would minimize it.

Far more minimize usury (ie credit cards) than homosexuality.  There are dozens of canons about usury.  Where's the outcry about that?  Divorce numbers are obscene in this country.  While the Orthodox Church allows for such a thing, it is also patently clear that it is a sin and lamentable.  More Orthodox go to great lengths to defend divorce (esp. online vis-a-vis RCs) than who lambast this practice.

I agree with everything you've said, but how does that have any effect on how one should feel about homosexuality? All of those things are big problems, yes, and warrant discussion. Start one.

It's as if I said that the New England Patriots are a good football team, and you responded by saying, "but the Eagles are good, too!" This, while true, doesn't negate the fact that the Patriots are good. If I said, "the Patriots are undeniably going to win the Super Bowl", then there would be an argument, just like if I had said, "homosexuality is the gravest sin of our time, and the only one worth addressing", you would have an argument, but no one said this.

My point is that the way people go on and on and on and on (to the point where we once had to have a moratorium on homosexuality on OC.net!) is that while it may not explicitly be stated that it's the gravest sin, it is implicitly acted as if it is such.  Note that people such as myself, who do not deny and even actively say that homosexual acts are objectively sinful and against the law of God, get absolutely and utterly sick of hearing about it.  Who on here exalts the practice?  Who even brings it up in a positive light first?  The only time it is mentioned on here is in yet another post whereby we hear someone condemn it once again.

I ignore 99% of them.  For some reason, this one put me over the edge.
I can understand why. Someone brings up the idea that Mark Stokoe was removed from his seat on the Metropolitan Council for ethical reasons connected to the publication of possibly stolen emails and not for reasons tied to his alleged homosexual orientation, yet no one wants to address the ethical charges. The discussion of homosexuality goes on unabated.
When was this? I honestly didn't see it. I was asleep for a good chunk of this. Will scroll back now.

At any rate, I haven't been on OC.net all that long, and have never been involved in any discussion of homosexuality prior to this one, so that would be why I don't understand your frustration. I could see how any issue, discussed ad nauseum, can get bothersome.
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2011, 02:31:01 PM »

There are dozens of canons about usury.  Where's the outcry about that?

Please ask your parish to submit a resolution for consideration at the ACC AAC. Seriously.

Not a bad idea, actually.
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2011, 02:31:21 PM »

Yeah, I'm ugly in real life, so thank goodness I'm gay!   Undecided

but you are pretty in the picture  Kiss
Photoshop does wonders.

where are you from?
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IsmiLiora
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2011, 02:33:44 PM »

Please stop hitting on me, I'm married.  Angry Angry Angry



 Kiss laugh
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 02:36:00 PM »

Please stop hitting on me, I'm married.  Angry Angry Angry



 Kiss laugh

so what?  laugh
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 02:37:08 PM »

how old are you?
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2011, 02:53:25 PM »

lost,

This forum doesn't exist to be an online dating site, nor do we support adultery, so knock off your flirting with IsmiLiora.

- PtA
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2011, 03:12:03 PM »

 The golden "out" for this one is that the act of divorce is one separatable act of sin, whereas the homosexual state is one ongoing and never-remitting, so happy-be-lonely to those afflicted with it.)
Actually it is the Churches view that the homosexual act is a single act of sin. The homosexual state, i.e. feeling attracted to the same sex, is not itself a sin.
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2011, 03:28:16 PM »

By the way, just to be clear:

I am not gay.  Never have been.  Have never had any interest, although I do admit to a sinful enjoyment of clothes (esp. shoes) and show tunes.



Oooooooooooklahoma........................
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 03:30:33 PM »

By the way, just to be clear:

I am not gay.  Never have been.  Have never had any interest, although I do admit to a sinful enjoyment of clothes (esp. shoes) and show tunes.



Oooooooooooklahoma........................

I was thinking more: You Can't Get a Man with a Gun.
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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2011, 03:31:03 PM »

If someone tried to defend lying as a perfectly natural action people would be just as up in arms about it as they are when homosexuality is given that pass. If everyone agreed that homosexuality is a distortion as much as hate or greed is, then there would be a lot less threads about it. Things are suddenly much less interesting when everyone agrees.

This is really the whole point, and it is why we get hung up on this issue. Not because we view it as a greater sin, or a greater issue, but because so many would minimize it.

Far more minimize usury (ie credit cards) than homosexuality.  There are dozens of canons about usury.  Where's the outcry about that?  Divorce numbers are obscene in this country.  While the Orthodox Church allows for such a thing, it is also patently clear that it is a sin and lamentable.  More Orthodox go to great lengths to defend divorce (esp. online vis-a-vis RCs) than who lambast this practice.

I agree with everything you've said, but how does that have any effect on how one should feel about homosexuality? All of those things are big problems, yes, and warrant discussion. Start one.

It's as if I said that the New England Patriots are a good football team, and you responded by saying, "but the Eagles are good, too!" This, while true, doesn't negate the fact that the Patriots are good. If I said, "the Patriots are undeniably going to win the Super Bowl", then there would be an argument, just like if I had said, "homosexuality is the gravest sin of our time, and the only one worth addressing", you would have an argument, but no one said this.

My point is that the way people go on and on and on and on (to the point where we once had to have a moratorium on homosexuality on OC.net!) is that while it may not explicitly be stated that it's the gravest sin, it is implicitly acted as if it is such.  Note that people such as myself, who do not deny and even actively say that homosexual acts are objectively sinful and against the law of God, get absolutely and utterly sick of hearing about it.  Who on here exalts the practice?  Who even brings it up in a positive light first?  The only time it is mentioned on here is in yet another post whereby we hear someone condemn it once again.

I ignore 99% of them.  For some reason, this one put me over the edge.
I can understand why. Someone brings up the idea that Mark Stokoe was removed from his seat on the Metropolitan Council for ethical reasons connected to the publication of possibly stolen emails and not for reasons tied to his alleged homosexual orientation, yet no one wants to address the ethical charges. The discussion of homosexuality goes on unabated.

You must be gay, too, PtA.  You just want to sweep the gay under the rug. Wink
Yeah, there must be a reason why I'm almost 40 and never been laid. Wink

Maybe God is calling you to the monastic lifestyle? Smiley

j/k
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« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2011, 03:32:18 PM »

 The golden "out" for this one is that the act of divorce is one separatable act of sin, whereas the homosexual state is one ongoing and never-remitting, so happy-be-lonely to those afflicted with it.)
Actually it is the Churches view that the homosexual act is a single act of sin. The homosexual state, i.e. feeling attracted to the same sex, is not itself a sin.

what?who, where , when did it said that ?  Cheesy Huh police
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2011, 03:34:42 PM »

If someone tried to defend lying as a perfectly natural action people would be just as up in arms about it as they are when homosexuality is given that pass. If everyone agreed that homosexuality is a distortion as much as hate or greed is, then there would be a lot less threads about it. Things are suddenly much less interesting when everyone agrees.

This is really the whole point, and it is why we get hung up on this issue. Not because we view it as a greater sin, or a greater issue, but because so many would minimize it.

Far more minimize usury (ie credit cards) than homosexuality.  There are dozens of canons about usury.  Where's the outcry about that?  Divorce numbers are obscene in this country.  While the Orthodox Church allows for such a thing, it is also patently clear that it is a sin and lamentable.  More Orthodox go to great lengths to defend divorce (esp. online vis-a-vis RCs) than who lambast this practice.

I agree with everything you've said, but how does that have any effect on how one should feel about homosexuality? All of those things are big problems, yes, and warrant discussion. Start one.

It's as if I said that the New England Patriots are a good football team, and you responded by saying, "but the Eagles are good, too!" This, while true, doesn't negate the fact that the Patriots are good. If I said, "the Patriots are undeniably going to win the Super Bowl", then there would be an argument, just like if I had said, "homosexuality is the gravest sin of our time, and the only one worth addressing", you would have an argument, but no one said this.

My point is that the way people go on and on and on and on (to the point where we once had to have a moratorium on homosexuality on OC.net!) is that while it may not explicitly be stated that it's the gravest sin, it is implicitly acted as if it is such.  Note that people such as myself, who do not deny and even actively say that homosexual acts are objectively sinful and against the law of God, get absolutely and utterly sick of hearing about it.  Who on here exalts the practice?  Who even brings it up in a positive light first?  The only time it is mentioned on here is in yet another post whereby we hear someone condemn it once again.

I ignore 99% of them.  For some reason, this one put me over the edge.
I can understand why. Someone brings up the idea that Mark Stokoe was removed from his seat on the Metropolitan Council for ethical reasons connected to the publication of possibly stolen emails and not for reasons tied to his alleged homosexual orientation, yet no one wants to address the ethical charges. The discussion of homosexuality goes on unabated.

You must be gay, too, PtA.  You just want to sweep the gay under the rug. Wink
Yeah, there must be a reason why I'm almost 40 and never been laid. Wink

Maybe God is calling you to the monastic lifestyle? Smiley

j/k

So... you're single? Smiley
 
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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2011, 03:37:25 PM »

 The golden "out" for this one is that the act of divorce is one separatable act of sin, whereas the homosexual state is one ongoing and never-remitting, so happy-be-lonely to those afflicted with it.)
Actually it is the Churches view that the homosexual act is a single act of sin. The homosexual state, i.e. feeling attracted to the same sex, is not itself a sin.

Indeed. There is no sin where thoughts are not entertained and acted upon--this regards everything.
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« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2011, 03:38:34 PM »

If someone tried to defend lying as a perfectly natural action people would be just as up in arms about it as they are when homosexuality is given that pass. If everyone agreed that homosexuality is a distortion as much as hate or greed is, then there would be a lot less threads about it. Things are suddenly much less interesting when everyone agrees.

This is really the whole point, and it is why we get hung up on this issue. Not because we view it as a greater sin, or a greater issue, but because so many would minimize it.

Far more minimize usury (ie credit cards) than homosexuality.  There are dozens of canons about usury.  Where's the outcry about that?  Divorce numbers are obscene in this country.  While the Orthodox Church allows for such a thing, it is also patently clear that it is a sin and lamentable.  More Orthodox go to great lengths to defend divorce (esp. online vis-a-vis RCs) than who lambast this practice.

I agree with everything you've said, but how does that have any effect on how one should feel about homosexuality? All of those things are big problems, yes, and warrant discussion. Start one.

It's as if I said that the New England Patriots are a good football team, and you responded by saying, "but the Eagles are good, too!" This, while true, doesn't negate the fact that the Patriots are good. If I said, "the Patriots are undeniably going to win the Super Bowl", then there would be an argument, just like if I had said, "homosexuality is the gravest sin of our time, and the only one worth addressing", you would have an argument, but no one said this.

My point is that the way people go on and on and on and on (to the point where we once had to have a moratorium on homosexuality on OC.net!) is that while it may not explicitly be stated that it's the gravest sin, it is implicitly acted as if it is such.  Note that people such as myself, who do not deny and even actively say that homosexual acts are objectively sinful and against the law of God, get absolutely and utterly sick of hearing about it.  Who on here exalts the practice?  Who even brings it up in a positive light first?  The only time it is mentioned on here is in yet another post whereby we hear someone condemn it once again.

I ignore 99% of them.  For some reason, this one put me over the edge.
I can understand why. Someone brings up the idea that Mark Stokoe was removed from his seat on the Metropolitan Council for ethical reasons connected to the publication of possibly stolen emails and not for reasons tied to his alleged homosexual orientation, yet no one wants to address the ethical charges. The discussion of homosexuality goes on unabated.

You must be gay, too, PtA.  You just want to sweep the gay under the rug. Wink
Yeah, there must be a reason why I'm almost 40 and never been laid. Wink

Maybe God is calling you to the monastic lifestyle? Smiley

j/k

So... you're single? Smiley

I am married, but if my husband should fall asleep in the Lord, then I would enter the monastery.
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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2011, 03:40:11 PM »

Just a note, I was reading Lactantius today and in pointing the many deviations of the Greek gods he calls the attention to the sin of the homossexual act. He defined it as "the wors form of adultery, for it is adultery against nature itself."

Quote
What was the conduct of Jupiter, the father of all these, who in the customary prayer is styled "Most Excellent and Great"? Is he not, from his earliest childhood, proved to be impious, and almost a parricide, since he expelled his father from his kingdom, and banished him, and did not await his death though he was aged and worn out, such was his eagerness for rule? And when he had taken his father’s throne by violence and arms, he was attacked with war by the Titans, which was the beginning of evils to the human race; and when these had been overcome and lasting peace procured, he spent the rest of his life in debaucheries and adulteries. I forbear to mention the virgins whom he dishonoured. For that is wont to be judged endurable. I cannot pass by the cases of Amphitryon and Tyndarus, whose houses he filled to overflowing with disgrace and infamy. But he reached the height of impiety and guilt in carrying off the royal boy. For it did not appear enough to cover himself with infamy in offering violence to women, unless he also outraged his own sex. This is true adultery, which is done against nature.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.iii.ii.i.xi.html

This is interesting in that the Bible and the Fathers don't seem to put the homosexual act as a sin like all others. They clearly seem to say that a steady loving relationship between a homosexual pair is far worse than an adulterous and promiscuous man or woman. Lactantius gives us a reason there: while the "usual" fornicator betrays people, betrays trust, the practicing homosexual (and by implication practicioners of other paraphilias) by treating men as women, or women as men in their hearts, and in cultivating this, are dettached from reality, they are "betraying nature itself".

One can compare the fornicator to a glutton. He is slave to the excess of a certain impulse. A homosexual act, on the other hand, is like a person who eats fabric, or dust or metals. He longs and delights with things that are not really what he/she feels they are. They suffer of what Paul Sérieux called "dellusion of interpretation" which can also happen concerning love and desire. Basically the person does not hallucinate as such, because hallucionations are sensorial: people see and hear things. One who suffers of "dellusions of interpretation", can be said to "hallucinate" only in the perception of sensorial information that is real. For example, a person sees a train coming in her direction and instead of feeling fear or the impulse to jump, the person feels happy. The person is a wife that is beaten every day by a drunk husband and is convinced that he does it because he loves her. The person sees and perceives the facts as they are. But they *feel* and perceive them in an absolutely dellusional way.

That's the case with all the paraphilias, including homosexuality. The man sees another man, knows it's a man, knows that he is a man, but he feels about the other person as the other person was a woman. Or he feels about himself as he was a woman. The feeling exists, but it is not true, in the sense that it does not correspond to reality.
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« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2011, 03:44:29 PM »

 The golden "out" for this one is that the act of divorce is one separatable act of sin, whereas the homosexual state is one ongoing and never-remitting, so happy-be-lonely to those afflicted with it.)
Actually it is the Churches view that the homosexual act is a single act of sin. The homosexual state, i.e. feeling attracted to the same sex, is not itself a sin.

Indeed. There is no sin where thoughts are not entertained and acted upon--this regards everything.

"and, in that they have sinned in word, or deed or thought forgive them"
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« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2011, 03:48:36 PM »

If someone tried to defend lying as a perfectly natural action people would be just as up in arms about it as they are when homosexuality is given that pass. If everyone agreed that homosexuality is a distortion as much as hate or greed is, then there would be a lot less threads about it. Things are suddenly much less interesting when everyone agrees.

This is really the whole point, and it is why we get hung up on this issue. Not because we view it as a greater sin, or a greater issue, but because so many would minimize it.


I TOTALLLY AGREE. However this does not excuse homosexuality.

I remember when I was little, a divorced woman moved onto our street, followed by another. I remember hearing some of the parents say something to the effect of, "Not one but two divorcees? What's our neighborhood coming to?"

Boy, if only they could have fast forwarded and found out we'd have two men getting married (and it would be LEGAL in some states), in 2011!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 03:52:05 PM by Xenia1918 » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2011, 03:49:17 PM »

 The golden "out" for this one is that the act of divorce is one separatable act of sin, whereas the homosexual state is one ongoing and never-remitting, so happy-be-lonely to those afflicted with it.)
Actually it is the Churches view that the homosexual act is a single act of sin. The homosexual state, i.e. feeling attracted to the same sex, is not itself a sin.

Indeed. There is no sin where thoughts are not entertained and acted upon--this regards everything.

"and, in that they have sinned in word, or deed or thought forgive them"

You misunderstand about thoughts. There are many thoughts that "go through your head"--good, bad, neutral. You are not sinning in thought unless you entertain a bad thought, add to it, delight in it. Even there, however, it is not as serious a sin if you reject it and do not act on it. There are sins of thought, but merely having thoughts is not the same as sinning in thought. One must distinguish between temptations and actual sins.
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« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2011, 03:51:06 PM »

My take on this. To me its simply logical. The Church states sex outside the bonds of matrimony is a sin. Whether you're straight, gay, bi, or any other passion.

Since God only recognizes a man and a woman in marriage, it is therefore never ok to be a practicing homosexual.

If this "gentleman" is a practicing homosexual, he should have been immidately removed from any leadership position in the Church.
If you are gay and lust after your own gender, its no different as lusting over someone of the opposite gender if you're straight. Lust is lust; it is NO different.

The main difference is that if you are straight, you may have sexual relations and it not be a sin, which is within the bonds of marriage. Homosexuals do not have that luxury.

PP
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« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2011, 03:54:13 PM »

 The golden "out" for this one is that the act of divorce is one separatable act of sin, whereas the homosexual state is one ongoing and never-remitting, so happy-be-lonely to those afflicted with it.)
Actually it is the Churches view that the homosexual act is a single act of sin. The homosexual state, i.e. feeling attracted to the same sex, is not itself a sin.

Indeed. There is no sin where thoughts are not entertained and acted upon--this regards everything.

"and, in that they have sinned in word, or deed or thought forgive them"

You misunderstand about thoughts. There are many thoughts that "go through your head"--good, bad, neutral. You are not sinning in thought unless you entertain a bad thought, add to it, delight in it. Even there, however, it is not as serious a sin if you reject it and do not act on it. There are sins of thought, but merely having thoughts is not the same as sinning in thought. One must distinguish between temptations and actual sins.

i`ve seen it after i re-read your post... i`m not sure the one you were quoting believed the same... most of the temptational thoughts come from passionate lust... if you had been tempted by homosexual thoughts (feel actracted into them and the idea) than you have sinned with your thought... you need to confess that to your priest... don`t worry he will only ban you from communion for a few years... Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2011, 03:55:35 PM »

My take on this. To me its simply logical. The Church states sex outside the bonds of matrimony is a sin. Whether you're straight, gay, bi, or any other passion.

Since God only recognizes a man and a woman in marriage, it is therefore never ok to be a practicing homosexual.

If this "gentleman" is a practicing homosexual, he should have been immidately removed from any leadership position in the Church.
If you are gay and lust after your own gender, its no different as lusting over someone of the opposite gender if you're straight. Lust is lust; it is NO different.

The main difference is that if you are straight, you may have sexual relations and it not be a sin, which is within the bonds of marriage. Homosexuals do not have that luxury.

PP

lust is pleasure, pleasure is satisfaction, satisfaction is happiness... lust is the best...
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« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2011, 03:58:52 PM »

My take on this. To me its simply logical. The Church states sex outside the bonds of matrimony is a sin. Whether you're straight, gay, bi, or any other passion.

Since God only recognizes a man and a woman in marriage, it is therefore never ok to be a practicing homosexual.

If this "gentleman" is a practicing homosexual, he should have been immidately removed from any leadership position in the Church.
If you are gay and lust after your own gender, its no different as lusting over someone of the opposite gender if you're straight. Lust is lust; it is NO different.

The main difference is that if you are straight, you may have sexual relations and it not be a sin, which is within the bonds of marriage. Homosexuals do not have that luxury.

PP

lust is pleasure, pleasure is satisfaction, satisfaction is happiness... lust is the best...

On the contrary, lust is a slippery downward spiral leading to depression, death, and damnation.
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« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2011, 04:01:59 PM »

My take on this. To me its simply logical. The Church states sex outside the bonds of matrimony is a sin. Whether you're straight, gay, bi, or any other passion.

Since God only recognizes a man and a woman in marriage, it is therefore never ok to be a practicing homosexual.

If this "gentleman" is a practicing homosexual, he should have been immidately removed from any leadership position in the Church.
If you are gay and lust after your own gender, its no different as lusting over someone of the opposite gender if you're straight. Lust is lust; it is NO different.

The main difference is that if you are straight, you may have sexual relations and it not be a sin, which is within the bonds of marriage. Homosexuals do not have that luxury.

PP

lust is pleasure, pleasure is satisfaction, satisfaction is happiness... lust is the best...

On the contrary, lust is a slippery downward spiral leading to depression, death, and damnation.

how?
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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2011, 04:05:20 PM »

Lost, all I can say is pick up a history book if you want to know the endgame of lust.

PP
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2011, 04:10:27 PM »

Lost, all I can say is pick up a history book if you want to know the endgame of lust.

PP

Look what happened with Henry VIII after all...
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2011, 04:12:46 PM »

Lost, all I can say is pick up a history book if you want to know the endgame of lust.

PP

what do you mean?
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« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2011, 04:15:38 PM »

If someone tried to defend lying as a perfectly natural action people would be just as up in arms about it as they are when homosexuality is given that pass. If everyone agreed that homosexuality is a distortion as much as hate or greed is, then there would be a lot less threads about it. Things are suddenly much less interesting when everyone agrees.

This is really the whole point, and it is why we get hung up on this issue. Not because we view it as a greater sin, or a greater issue, but because so many would minimize it.

Far more minimize usury (ie credit cards) than homosexuality.  There are dozens of canons about usury.  Where's the outcry about that?  Divorce numbers are obscene in this country.  While the Orthodox Church allows for such a thing, it is also patently clear that it is a sin and lamentable.  More Orthodox go to great lengths to defend divorce (esp. online vis-a-vis RCs) than who lambast this practice.


I'd argue that divorce got to the point its at because of an attitude of 'its not that bad' or 'its a part of life.' It just proves that people should raise their voice over homosexuality so it doesn't get to the point that divorce has. And you're right about usury. It became acceptable over time because no one stood up to decry it. We must have the guts to confront our brothers and the humility to do it in love. We have all (myself as the first) fallen short of either or both parts of that.
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« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2011, 04:18:27 PM »

Quote
what do you mean?
Lust eventually causes the downfall of 1 mighty person after another is what I mean.

PP
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« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2011, 04:20:03 PM »

Quote
what do you mean?
Lust eventually causes the downfall of 1 mighty person after another is what I mean.

PP

example?
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« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2011, 04:21:22 PM »

What do you want, a play-by-play?
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« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2011, 04:21:36 PM »

Quote
what do you mean?
Lust eventually causes the downfall of 1 mighty person after another is what I mean.

PP

example?

Peewee Herman.
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« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2011, 04:25:04 PM »

What do you want, a play-by-play?

whom and what is a play-by-play?
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« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2011, 04:27:15 PM »

Marcus Antonius.

Anyways Lost, one of three things are happening with you here.

You're either a troll trying to troll away, completely ignorant of history to even the most basic sense by your question (which is forgivable) or have no problems with lust. Anyway, Im done commenting to you.

PP
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