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Author Topic: How to consider Roman Catholics  (Read 7773 times) Average Rating: 0
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Alveus Lacuna
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« on: December 07, 2010, 12:28:26 AM »

I consider them as all members of the true faith with apparent misunderstandings between them.

And it's cool if I consider the Roman Catholics this way too, right?
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 12:45:28 AM »

I personally do not understand why you would. If I did, I would still be one. There would have been no reason for me to become Orthodox. It also explains why people like Papist, lubeltri, and elijahmaria are still Roman Catholics: they believe they are a part of the true faith. I can respect and admire certain aspects of their faith, devotion and traditions without believing that they are a part of the true faith.

BTW, is that quote in context? It seems that Ortho_cat is talking about our non-Chalcedonian friends.

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 01:11:43 AM »

I consider them as all members of the true faith with apparent misunderstandings between them.

And it's cool if I consider the Roman Catholics this way too, right?

Not if it's heresy.
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 01:15:08 AM »

Well now that this post has been removed into an exclusive context, the sarcasm and point of the post will probably be lost on posters perusing the threads.
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 08:42:46 AM »

I've never been very good at discerning sarcasm... Tongue
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 12:27:13 PM »

I personally do not understand why you would. If I did, I would still be one. There would have been no reason for me to become Orthodox. It also explains why people like Papist, lubeltri, and elijahmaria are still Roman Catholics: they believe they are a part of the true faith. I can respect and admire certain aspects of their faith, devotion and traditions without believing that they are a part of the true faith.

BTW, is that quote in context? It seems that Ortho_cat is talking about our non-Chalcedonian friends.

In Christ,
Andrew
Yup. I believe that the Catholic Church (the communion to which I belong) is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus.
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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2010, 12:42:06 PM »

A very wide and generic question...
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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2010, 01:09:58 PM »

I personally do not understand why you would. If I did, I would still be one. There would have been no reason for me to become Orthodox. It also explains why people like Papist, lubeltri, and elijahmaria are still Roman Catholics: they believe they are a part of the true faith. I can respect and admire certain aspects of their faith, devotion and traditions without believing that they are a part of the true faith.

BTW, is that quote in context? It seems that Ortho_cat is talking about our non-Chalcedonian friends.

In Christ,
Andrew

I believe the same thing about Orthodoxy.  The reason I don't convert is that I don't believe either one is heretical, so there's nothing that I have to recant.  As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.

M.
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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2010, 02:37:12 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

Perhaps I will be able to judge Roman Catholics when I have made sense of the following two verses:

Quote from: Matthew 12:30 (KJV)
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Quote from: Luke 9:50 (KJV)
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Until then, I will just try to follow the path of repentance laid out for me by the Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

I wish all the Roman Catholics on here well.

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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2010, 02:42:12 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2010, 02:58:34 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.

Yes; at least they do. Glory to God! I, for one, do not accept either that there are no dogmatic differences between us and the non-Chalcedonians. Though I find the issue more confusing; the confusion, I think, only shows the inadequacy of my reason and understanding. I have to defer to the Holy Fathers. As far as "considering" the non-Chalcedonians or the Roman Catholics, ISTM we should consider them with discernment and love. Since I am not very loving or discerning, the more I think about it, the less I feel like considering them at all. I mean considering in terms of judging. Sorry if I'm not being very helpful.

I hope all our Roman Catholic friends on here will be saved.

I know Orthodoxy is the truth, but I also know that truth calls me to be humble, and that I fail in this every moment.
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2010, 06:48:15 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.

You do not consider OO closer in faith to the EO than the RC?
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 07:11:40 PM »

Consider us adorable.  Grin
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2010, 07:19:23 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.

Oh come now. Even I, one of the most Anti-Chalcedonian posters on here, accept that the two of us have far more in common than you do with the Romanists. The fact that we do not pay lip service to Chalcedon is a rather minor difference compared to all the deviations of Rome.
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2010, 08:10:03 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.

Oh come now. Even I, one of the most Anti-Chalcedonian posters on here, accept that the two of us have far more in common than you do with the Romanists. The fact that we do not pay lip service to Chalcedon is a rather minor difference compared to all the deviations of Rome.
There's that shadow organization again.
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« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2010, 08:25:08 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.

Oh come now. Even I, one of the most Anti-Chalcedonian posters on here, accept that the two of us have far more in common than you do with the Romanists. The fact that we do not pay lip service to Chalcedon is a rather minor difference compared to all the deviations of Rome.

My sentiments exactly (exact for the anti-chalcedonian part) Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2010, 08:35:41 PM »

Consider us adorable.  Grin

Definitely.   Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2010, 08:37:18 PM »

Mono(Mia)physites

That's a new one.  What's a Mono(Mia)physite?
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2010, 08:40:41 PM »

Mono(Mia)physites

That's a new one.  What's a Mono(Mia)physite?


Extra-strength!
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« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2010, 08:45:31 PM »

Mono(Mia)physites

That's a new one.  What's a Mono(Mia)physite?


Extra-strength!
You always post the best pictures.
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« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2010, 08:48:19 PM »

Mono(Mia)physites

That's a new one.  What's a Mono(Mia)physite?


Extra-strength!
You always post the best pictures.

It's my stress relief.  Grin
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« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2010, 10:01:56 PM »

Consider us fully orthodox.
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« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2010, 12:13:35 AM »

Consider us fully orthodox.

No way!  Undecided
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« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2010, 12:14:40 AM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.

Oh come now. Even I, one of the most Anti-Chalcedonian posters on here, accept that the two of us have far more in common than you do with the Romanists. The fact that we do not pay lip service to Chalcedon is a rather minor difference compared to all the deviations of Rome.
There's that shadow organization again.

Stop trying to be deceptive. You know exactly what I mean.
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« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2010, 01:04:17 PM »

If I ever get to Rome I'll let you know, it's on my Bucket List...
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« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2010, 01:05:58 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.

Oh come now. Even I, one of the most Anti-Chalcedonian posters on here, accept that the two of us have far more in common than you do with the Romanists. The fact that we do not pay lip service to Chalcedon is a rather minor difference compared to all the deviations of Rome.
There's that shadow organization again.

Stop trying to be deceptive. You know exactly what I mean.
What an uncharitable accusation. I am not being deceptive. Just confused. I know of no group of people that call themselves "The Romanists". Is it like a new superhero team? You know, like the Justice Leaguie or The Avengers?
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« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2010, 02:57:30 PM »

Consider us sacramental.  Consider us militant.  Consider us the mystical body.  Consider us triumphant.  Consider us one.  Consider us holy. Consider us catholic.  Consider us apostolic.  Consider us the fullness of Christ's Church.  Consider us communion.  Consider us ancient.  Consider us patristic.  Consider us of Tradition.  Consider us of Scripture.  Consider us active.  Consider us hesychast.  Consider us as the communion of saints.  Consider us the one true Church.





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« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2010, 03:14:26 PM »

Consider us sacramental.  Consider us militant.  Consider us the mystical body.  Consider us triumphant.  Consider us one.  Consider us holy. Consider us catholic.  Consider us apostolic.  Consider us the fullness of Christ's Church.  Consider us communion.  Consider us ancient.  Consider us patristic.  Consider us of Tradition.  Consider us of Scripture.  Consider us active.  Consider us hesychast.  Consider us as the communion of saints.  Consider us the one true Church.

Back in the 13th century they invented the comma and the "and".  Grin Cheesy
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« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2010, 03:15:41 PM »

Consider us sacramental.  Consider us militant.  Consider us the mystical body.  Consider us triumphant.  Consider us one.  Consider us holy. Consider us catholic.  Consider us apostolic.  Consider us the fullness of Christ's Church.  Consider us communion.  Consider us ancient.  Consider us patristic.  Consider us of Tradition.  Consider us of Scripture.  Consider us active.  Consider us hesychast.  Consider us as the communion of saints.  Consider us the one true Church.






That we are, the Mystical Body of Christ, the Universal Ark of Salvation.
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« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2010, 03:18:57 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.

Oh come now. Even I, one of the most Anti-Chalcedonian posters on here, accept that the two of us have far more in common than you do with the Romanists. The fact that we do not pay lip service to Chalcedon is a rather minor difference compared to all the deviations of Rome.
There's that shadow organization again.

Stop trying to be deceptive. You know exactly what I mean.
What an uncharitable accusation. I am not being deceptive. Just confused. I know of no group of people that call themselves "The Romanists". Is it like a new superhero team? You know, like the Justice Leaguie or The Avengers?


You knew it was coming.  Grin
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« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2010, 03:19:48 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.

Oh come now. Even I, one of the most Anti-Chalcedonian posters on here, accept that the two of us have far more in common than you do with the Romanists. The fact that we do not pay lip service to Chalcedon is a rather minor difference compared to all the deviations of Rome.
There's that shadow organization again.

Stop trying to be deceptive. You know exactly what I mean.
What an uncharitable accusation. I am not being deceptive. Just confused. I know of no group of people that call themselves "The Romanists". Is it like a new superhero team? You know, like the Justice Leaguie or The Avengers?


You knew it was coming.  Grin
Another picture that I can't see from work. Every fun internet site in the world is blocked here. lol
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« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2010, 03:40:11 PM »

What an uncharitable accusation. I am not being deceptive. Just confused. I know of no group of people that call themselves "The Romanists".

More attempts at being deceptive.

But you're not fooling me.

Yes, it is true that there is no group which self-identifies by the phrase.

In spite of that, however, I am confident that you know which group I am referring to by it.
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« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2010, 03:41:03 PM »

Consider us sacramental.  Consider us militant.  Consider us the mystical body.  Consider us triumphant.  Consider us one.  Consider us holy. Consider us catholic.  Consider us apostolic.  Consider us the fullness of Christ's Church.  Consider us communion.  Consider us ancient.  Consider us patristic.  Consider us of Tradition.  Consider us of Scripture.  Consider us active.  Consider us hesychast.  Consider us as the communion of saints.  Consider us the one true Church.

No!!  Lips Sealed
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« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2010, 03:51:56 PM »

Consider us sacramental.  Consider us militant.  Consider us the mystical body.  Consider us triumphant.  Consider us one.  Consider us holy. Consider us catholic.  Consider us apostolic.  Consider us the fullness of Christ's Church.  Consider us communion.  Consider us ancient.  Consider us patristic.  Consider us of Tradition.  Consider us of Scripture.  Consider us active.  Consider us hesychast.  Consider us as the communion of saints.  Consider us the one true Church.

I'm sold.
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« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2010, 03:53:51 PM »

Consider us sacramental.  Consider us militant.  Consider us the mystical body.  Consider us triumphant.  Consider us one.  Consider us holy. Consider us catholic.  Consider us apostolic.  Consider us the fullness of Christ's Church.  Consider us communion.  Consider us ancient.  Consider us patristic.  Consider us of Tradition.  Consider us of Scripture.  Consider us active.  Consider us hesychast.  Consider us as the communion of saints.  Consider us the one true Church.

I'm sold.

LOL.
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« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2010, 04:12:52 PM »

It astounds me that whenever someone on this forum disagrees with Rome, every catholic poster here jumps on it as if that person had no right to say so. Is it the "big powerful Church" mentality? Huh
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« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2010, 04:15:55 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.
yes, they cite it as evidence of Ultramontanism, which shows we do not share the same Faith with them on that Council either. At least, looking at the Fourth Ecumeical Council through the lens of the Fifth Ecumenical Council, the EO and the OO see the same Faith. The Vatican, in view of its insistence of Chalcedon being the proof of papal infallibility and Ultramontanism and denying the fact of the Fifth Ecumenical Council meeting and dogmatizing over Pope Vigilius' vigorous opposition, for which the Council struck him from the diptychs, has a different faith, that of the filioque and IC.
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« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2010, 04:54:45 PM »

It astounds me that whenever someone on this forum disagrees with Rome, every catholic poster here jumps on it as if that person had no right to say so. Is it the "big powerful Church" mentality? Huh

I expect you'd like us to take the distortions of what we believe and say thank you?

Ok.

Thank you for distorting what I believe as a Catholic and what my Church teaches.  Thank you for seeing me as heterodox. 

In Christ,

M.
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« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2010, 05:25:22 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2010, 05:27:17 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes
As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley
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« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2010, 05:28:17 PM »

It astounds me that whenever someone on this forum disagrees with Rome, every catholic poster here jumps on it as if that person had no right to say so. Is it the "big powerful Church" mentality? Huh

I expect you'd like us to take the distortions of what we believe and say thank you?

Ok.

Thank you for distorting what I believe as a Catholic and what my Church teaches.  Thank you for seeing me as heterodox. 

In Christ,

M.

When you insist that we believe all the same things as you do but just don't know it, someone's belifs are going to inevitably get distorted.

And, as far as I know, it's not a distortion to say that you believe communion with Rome is a crucial unity factor in the Church. Hence, Romanists.

If I go onto a Roman Catholic furum, I will inevitably be told by most people, if not everyone, that the Orthodox Church is schismatic. That fact that we do not call ourselves schismatics has no bearing on whether we actually are. Arians did not call themselves heretics, but that was still an accurate description of them. The fact that you do not call yourselves Romanists has no bearing in whether you actually are.

You can clarify what you believe all you want, but you have no right to insist that everyone agree with you.
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« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2010, 05:28:31 PM »

What an uncharitable accusation. I am not being deceptive. Just confused. I know of no group of people that call themselves "The Romanists".

More attempts at being deceptive.

But you're not fooling me.

Yes, it is true that there is no group which self-identifies by the phrase.

In spite of that, however, I am confident that you know which group I am referring to by it.
How can you be so confident when you refuse to tell me who this group is?
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« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2010, 05:30:36 PM »

It astounds me that whenever someone on this forum disagrees with Rome, every catholic poster here jumps on it as if that person had no right to say so. Is it the "big powerful Church" mentality? Huh

I expect you'd like us to take the distortions of what we believe and say thank you?

Ok.

Thank you for distorting what I believe as a Catholic and what my Church teaches.  Thank you for seeing me as heterodox.  

In Christ,

M.

When you insist that we believe all the same things as you do but just don't know it, someone's belifs are going to inevitably get distorted.

And, as far as I know, it's not a distortion to say that you believe communion with Rome is a crucial unity factor in the Church. Hence, Romanists.

If I go onto a Roman Catholic furum, I will inevitably be told by most people, if not everyone, that the Orthodox Church is schismatic. That fact that we do not call ourselves schismatics has no bearing on whether we actually are. Arians did not call themselves heretics, but that was still an accurate description of them. The fact that you do not call yourselves Romanists has no bearing in whether you actually are.

You can clarify what you believe all you want, but you have no right to insist that everyone agree with you.
But from what I understand, there is either no such group called "The Romanists" or they are a super secret shadow organization to which Deusveritasest belongs. Why do I suspect that he belongs to this group? Because he is so insistent on hiding the identity of the Romanists.
Perhaps like this group:


Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!

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« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2010, 05:33:46 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes
As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley

Do you want him to puke? Shocked
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« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2010, 05:36:25 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes
As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley

Do you want him to puke? Shocked
If that's what he is into. I'm not here to judge. (BTW, when some one says that they are not judging, they always are super-secretly judging)

Almost as super-secret as:

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