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« Reply #270 on: February 09, 2011, 04:47:29 PM »

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All the aliments of Modern Man like bad teeth which you mentioned plus things like diabetes, cancer and heart disease did not exist in primitive populations of our species of Human. People were far more robust because they ate a natural human diet. Only now with all the processed foods, grains and sugar in our diet have we suffered like you mentioned.

The first recorded cases of both cancer and diabetes come from roughly 1500 BC in Egypt. These diseases have been around for a long time, although there's no question that our modern processed diet and environment in some ways contribute to the high rates of such diseases.

These diseases were rare but started to show up when people switched to a more grain based diet. Hunter gatherer populations probably had no cancer or heart disease at all.  They are a wildfire today. Not many folks die of typhus anymore. Mostly they die from heart attacks, strokes, cancer and diabetes.

You're probably right.

But things weren't always rosy for primitive man. Haven't you seen Quest For Firelaugh

Back to the point, we live in a fallen world. There have been different struggles at different times. But to paint the thousands of years that Humans lived a pastoral hunter gatherer life as hellish and absent of God's grace is just wrong. People were healthier in most ways than we are today but had other dangers to worry about that we don't have to the same extent now. I just wanted to say that the premise of the thread is off base.

Indulge me one more point...

The Movie Quest for Fire is a good example of the attitude of superiority we take over our primitive ancestors. We picture them always living right on the brink of survival. No doubt that was the case often enough but I think it is a false depiction of the entirety of primitive human experience.
That attitude was part or our rationalization for wiping out Native American Culture and bringing them into the Industrialzed World. It turns out, their living conditions had much to be envied.

I saw a TV show about a year ago called "Meet the Natives".. They took six or seven men from a very isloated Polynisian Island and brought them to varius cities in the USA. They were not completely isolated and had some knowledge of the rest of the World via a US Navy spotter who was put on their island during WW Two. They developed a cargo cult after his visit.

It seemed to me that their lives on the Island were close to Paradise. They had comfortable conditions and abundence. They were facinated by our life-style when they visited but they commented specifically on how unhealthy our food was. They were taken to a cattle feed lot and when they saw how de-natured the grain feed was they scolded their host and told him that what they were feeding the anaimals was bad for them and would eventually kill us if we ate it.

They had all kinds of wisdom both practical and spiritual....... You could do worse.

Here is one clip. there is a bit of National Geographic type nudity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsGTKcw3-kg     
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« Reply #271 on: February 09, 2011, 06:11:04 PM »

Quote
All the aliments of Modern Man like bad teeth which you mentioned plus things like diabetes, cancer and heart disease did not exist in primitive populations of our species of Human. People were far more robust because they ate a natural human diet. Only now with all the processed foods, grains and sugar in our diet have we suffered like you mentioned.

The first recorded cases of both cancer and diabetes come from roughly 1500 BC in Egypt. These diseases have been around for a long time, although there's no question that our modern processed diet and environment in some ways contribute to the high rates of such diseases.

These diseases were rare but started to show up when people switched to a more grain based diet. Hunter gatherer populations probably had no cancer or heart disease at all.  They are a wildfire today. Not many folks die of typhus anymore. Mostly they die from heart attacks, strokes, cancer and diabetes.

You're probably right.

But things weren't always rosy for primitive man. Haven't you seen Quest For Fire?  laugh

Back to the point, we live in a fallen world. There have been different struggles at different times. But to paint the thousands of years that Humans lived a pastoral hunter gatherer life as hellish and absent of God's grace is just wrong. People were healthier in most ways than we are today but had other dangers to worry about that we don't have to the same extent now. I just wanted to say that the premise of the thread is off base.

Indulge me one more point...

The Movie Quest for Fire is a good example of the attitude of superiority we take over our primitive ancestors. We picture them always living right on the brink of survival. No doubt that was the case often enough but I think it is a false depiction of the entirety of primitive human experience.
That attitude was part or our rationalization for wiping out Native American Culture and bringing them into the Industrialzed World. It turns out, their living conditions had much to be envied.

I saw a TV show about a year ago called "Meet the Natives".. They took six or seven men from a very isloated Polynisian Island and brought them to varius cities in the USA. They were not completely isolated and had some knowledge of the rest of the World via a US Navy spotter who was put on their island during WW Two. They developed a cargo cult after his visit.

It seemed to me that their lives on the Island were close to Paradise. They had comfortable conditions and abundence. They were facinated by our life-style when they visited but they commented specifically on how unhealthy our food was. They were taken to a cattle feed lot and when they saw how de-natured the grain feed was they scolded their host and told him that what they were feeding the anaimals was bad for them and would eventually kill us if we ate it.

They had all kinds of wisdom both practical and spiritual....... You could do worse.

Here is one clip. there is a bit of National Geographic type nudity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsGTKcw3-kg    

I absolutely agree with you, actually. We have come a long way from living in harmony with our environment... with Life. I just wanted to point out that cancer and diabetes are not new diseases. Perhaps you're right in saying that they didn't exist (or hardly existed) before agriculture...? Never really thought about it before. Regarding Quest For Fire, I was being a bit facetious by mentioning it Smiley. The movie does, probably for entertainment's sake, make it look like life was just one wild and desperate struggle for survival with little solace... at least from what I remember. Of course, your youtube video offers us a much more positive and realistic look into "savage" existence  Wink.

Thanks for the video link. Looks interesting!

 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 06:12:10 PM by stavros_388 » Logged

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« Reply #272 on: February 10, 2011, 01:03:33 PM »


Quote
Plus, we have accelerated our demise in the last 20 years or so with factory raised anamals, refined foods and lots of sugar.

That, and the fact that factory farming has become disgustingly inhumane, is why I don't eat meat anymore.

Ditto for me as well. Well, it started out for health issues, and still is in part, but now that I'm off meat, and even though I do have access to a  REAL FARM, free range etc, I wouldn't go back to eating meat even if I could.  Though I do eat wild caught fish. (no farmed fish...yuck)



Are you completely vegan or just vegetarian?

For health reasons I had moved to a completely organic diet, which meant I only had meat 1-2 times a week (because I'm poor). Due to having to move and other reasons, however, I've moved away from that that diet. The difference is easily noticeable. Before, I lost about 40lbs (which was needed) and got down to the "ideal weight" for my size, eradicated a ton of health problems, and felt better. Now I've put on about 10lbs, I'm tired all the time, have trouble sleeping, etc.

Can't wait for August to role around when I'll finally be in a more permanent spot and can get back to the organic diet.
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« Reply #273 on: February 10, 2011, 03:36:52 PM »


Quote
Plus, we have accelerated our demise in the last 20 years or so with factory raised anamals, refined foods and lots of sugar.

That, and the fact that factory farming has become disgustingly inhumane, is why I don't eat meat anymore.

Ditto for me as well. Well, it started out for health issues, and still is in part, but now that I'm off meat, and even though I do have access to a  REAL FARM, free range etc, I wouldn't go back to eating meat even if I could.  Though I do eat wild caught fish. (no farmed fish...yuck)



Are you completely vegan or just vegetarian?

For health reasons I had moved to a completely organic diet, which meant I only had meat 1-2 times a week (because I'm poor). Due to having to move and other reasons, however, I've moved away from that that diet. The difference is easily noticeable. Before, I lost about 40lbs (which was needed) and got down to the "ideal weight" for my size, eradicated a ton of health problems, and felt better. Now I've put on about 10lbs, I'm tired all the time, have trouble sleeping, etc.

Can't wait for August to role around when I'll finally be in a more permanent spot and can get back to the organic diet.

Can the Moderator move this discussion to the Diet and Nutrition Thread? The discussion is getting interesting.
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« Reply #274 on: February 11, 2011, 11:43:48 AM »

Are you completely vegan or just vegetarian?

It depends on the day you ask that question...lol!  No I'm not 100% vegan. I do eat fish every week, and am not giving up my raw honey! Grin Other than those two exceptions though, I would be a vegan most of the year. I almost never use any dairy, because I'm lactose intolerant and I have vile reactions to eggs. I drink nothing but water, and the only time I use any milk is if it is baked into something like egg free cornbread or biscuits etc. These are exceptions to the rule though, of which I can break a little more often as of late. (I mean I really like mashed potatoes, and miss them...lol!) So that would be exception to the no dairy thing, so mostly I'm vegan, look for vegan recipes, and even buy vegan dark chocolate. Yes it does exist, but hard to find. Smiley



Quote
For health reasons I had moved to a completely organic diet, which meant I only had meat 1-2 times a week (because I'm poor).

Yeah, switching to mostly organic really saved my life. (literally) I never went 100% organic, but am pretty close, especially on my staple foods like wild rice, brown rice, nuts, raisins, and fruits and veggies. Most of what I eat isn't that much more expensive organic than the "poisoned" stuff at the local chain store. Sometimes it's actually cheaper in fact.

Where I live it's easy to get fresh organic wild caught fish; lake trout, white fish, walleye etc are all pretty cheap, I suppose most other locations these fish would be pricey. Alaskan pollack is reasonable as well, at the whole foods co-op and I get wild caught Alaskan Salmon for $10.59 per pound from a local fishermen who fishes here in the Winter, but fishes Alaska during the Salmon run. The China raised farm stuff is $12.00 per pound at the local big box grocery store, so the real stuff again, is cheaper. I eat about 1 large fillet a month. The local farm, where my parents buy their meat (beef and pork) is fairly reasonably priced too, but buying organic meat at the organic food store is really expensive. I have found though if one is really careful and shops around really well, it's really not that much more to go organic for the stuff one eats every day (for me that's apples, bananas, oatmeal by bulk, which is cheaper than the name brand at walmart per pound). Of course if I ate lots of hamburger, pork, turkey, and other foods that most people eat I'd never be able to afford it. However when one is eating oatmeal every morning with some fruit and toast, it ain't that expensive. I mean the local organic bakery sells a loaf of whole wheat bread for $2.59 a loaf....Sarah Lee is more expensive than that, unless you go to a discount bread store (which I do as well..lol!)


Quote
Due to having to move and other reasons, however, I've moved away from that that diet. The difference is easily noticeable. Before, I lost about 40lbs (which was needed) and got down to the "ideal weight" for my size, eradicated a ton of health problems, and felt better. Now I've put on about 10lbs, I'm tired all the time, have trouble sleeping, etc.

I lost a lot of weight too, and am still not where I want to be, but I think it's because I take in so many carbs. I'm trying to expand my diet, but because so many things do not agree with my system it's really hard sometimes.

I'm sort of on what I call a "hunter gatherer" diet, with more gathering type foods than hunting. Cheesy But so many healthy things are out for me that it's a pain sometimes. (no citrus, tomato products, too much acid etc.) Lots of leafy greens are out because I am a blood clotting disorder and vitamin K causes blood clots, but I'm trying to find leafy greens that I like (hard to do) and that aren't sky high in vitamin K. Again, very hard to do.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 11:49:21 AM by NorthernPines » Logged
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« Reply #275 on: February 11, 2011, 01:47:36 PM »

I have seen some people increase their body mass (building muscle) while decreasing their percentage of body fat. I was told that this is impossible? Can some one share with me how diet plays a role in this? I realize that this may just be a matter of putting on more muscle than the amount of fat that is being added, but is there any real possibility, with the right diet (along with working out) to put on muscle without adding fat, or very little fat?
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« Reply #276 on: February 11, 2011, 02:04:20 PM »

I have seen some people increase their body mass (building muscle) while decreasing their percentage of body fat. I was told that this is impossible? Can some one share with me how diet plays a role in this? I realize that this may just be a matter of putting on more muscle than the amount of fat that is being added, but is there any real possibility, with the right diet (along with working out) to put on muscle without adding fat, or very little fat?

If you really want to get into this discussion, then we will have to speak from experience and specifics.

You can do both, but really only if you are truly someone who is truly "undertrained". If you have been at any physical activity for a serious amount of time and diligence, you can't do both at least not in any significant sense. And if you were such a person, you probably wouldn't be asking for advice here, so I assume you are non-athlete.

Depending on your goals in terms of weight increase or loss and the speed in which you wish to do so and what physical activity you are training for will determine the specifics of what to do.

In you are truly undertrained, you can easily add some muscle (most of your "gains" in terms of strength, speed, endurance or what have you will be primarily due to neurological adaptation) and drop some fat.

FWIW. The paleo stuff is just the new fad based on non-science or cherry picking.

If you would like to be specific about what you currently do, what your specific goals are, then a more specific discussion can be had.

So put up your numbers and what you would like to change.

Unless you are getting paid to train, then really none of the stuff has changed from the texts written a hundred years ago.

The common person often tries to train like a real athlete and has not the genetics, time, coaching, nor monetary or pathological motivation and get burned out or injured.





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« Reply #277 on: February 12, 2011, 10:55:47 PM »

My diet is a wreck. I tried going vegan before, but it only lasted 2 days. I just can't swallow salad leafs, the texture makes me gag.

I'm a pretty skinny guy, but my metabolism is slowing down since I don't excercise. I'll eat alot of junk food and fast food all the time.

I'd like to start eating healthier right away, but vegetables I always have a problem with. Anything green basically.

Any suggestions on what my daily meals should be? I don't mind eating the same thing every day, and in fact would like to.
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« Reply #278 on: February 12, 2011, 10:58:13 PM »

Do you like legumes?
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« Reply #279 on: February 12, 2011, 10:58:53 PM »

I would say yes.
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« Reply #280 on: February 13, 2011, 05:58:29 AM »

This may or may not be related.

At my High School in Cairns North Queensland we had borders from Papua New Guinea.

These blokes had bodies to die for. Fully ripped and developed physiques. Where us Westerners were all overfed or underfed.

I imagine this came from their traditional tribal diet they had eaten for years. These guys had adopted a western style diet until late in their teens.

As a side, these guys had the most placid personalities too.
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« Reply #281 on: February 13, 2011, 10:28:04 PM »

My diet is a wreck. I tried going vegan before, but it only lasted 2 days. I just can't swallow salad leafs, the texture makes me gag.

I'm a pretty skinny guy, but my metabolism is slowing down since I don't excercise. I'll eat alot of junk food and fast food all the time.

I'd like to start eating healthier right away, but vegetables I always have a problem with. Anything green basically.

Any suggestions on what my daily meals should be? I don't mind eating the same thing every day, and in fact would like to.

There is a lot going on these days to determine what is the natural human diet. Paleolithic humans ate the same basic diet for a million years ( give or take:). Neolithic Man ( Post Agriculture) has eaten a diet with all kinds of new foods for only 10,000 years.

Even though it goes against the common wisdom of today, the natural human diet is built upon meat eating ( including fish). It is 60% to 70%
 meat with the rest made up of vegetables ( mostly leafy greens) some fruit and some nuts. No sugar and no refined junk foods.

Such a diet along with moderate exercise should build up muscle and also keep you lean and healthy.

Vegetarian diets can leave you deficient in several important nutrients. Using Tofu can be particularity unhealthful...it turns out.

Here is one way to envsion this. If you have a dog, imagine never feeding him meat. How healthy would he be? Not very I don't think. 
Dogs and humans evolved together in a very close relationship exactly because we eat the same diet. We were scavenging for the same things so man and dog figured out how to hunt together and share the meat.     
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« Reply #282 on: February 13, 2011, 10:34:49 PM »

My diet is a wreck. I tried going vegan before, but it only lasted 2 days. I just can't swallow salad leafs, the texture makes me gag.

I'm a pretty skinny guy, but my metabolism is slowing down since I don't excercise. I'll eat alot of junk food and fast food all the time.

I'd like to start eating healthier right away, but vegetables I always have a problem with. Anything green basically.

Any suggestions on what my daily meals should be? I don't mind eating the same thing every day, and in fact would like to.

There is a lot going on these days to determine what is the natural human diet. Paleolithic humans ate the same basic diet for a million years ( give or take:). Neolithic Man ( Post Agriculture) has eaten a diet with all kinds of new foods for only 10,000 years.

Even though it goes against the common wisdom of today, the natural human diet is built upon meat eating ( including fish). It is 60% to 70%
 meat with the rest made up of vegetables ( mostly leafy greens) some fruit and some nuts. No sugar and no refined junk foods.

Such a diet along with moderate exercise should build up muscle and also keep you lean and healthy.

Vegetarian diets can leave you deficient in several important nutrients. Using Tofu can be particularity unhealthful...it turns out.

Here is one way to envsion this. If you have a dog, imagine never feeding him meat. How healthy would he be? Not very I don't think. 
Dogs and humans evolved together in a very close relationship exactly because we eat the same diet. We were scavenging for the same things so man and dog figured out how to hunt together and share the meat.     

That sounds really good Marc, where can I find places to get me on a daily regimen of what I should eat on a daily basis?
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« Reply #283 on: February 13, 2011, 10:39:44 PM »

Here is what I found about the diet in Papua New Guinea. It seems very close to the Paleo diet. Fish and shell fish are a central part of the diet. They eat Sugar Cane, but I would point out that Sugar Cane is NOT refined Sugar. It is wrapped up in what is basically a tree branch. Whenever Mother Nature gives us Sugar it is within something very fibrous and not the straight sucrose or fructose.
-------------------
Food in Daily Life. Staples include starchy vegetables (wild sago, breadfruit, yams, taro, sweet potatoes, and rice) complemented by wild greens, several varieties of bananas, and coconuts, mango, and other fruits. Domestication of animals and hunting provide fowl, pork, and meat from birds, marsupials, turtles, and cassowaries. In riverine and coastal areas, fish and shellfish may form a significant part of the diet. Villagers cook two meals a day, boiling or roasting the food. Earth ovens are dug on ceremonial grounds for special occasions. Leftovers, sugarcane, and coconut milk are consumed while people work in their gardens. Tea is drunk at all times. Urban restaurants provide international cuisine to those who can afford it. Kai bars (fast-food stands) are popular. Food taboos vary and are often temporary, as with restrictions on pregnant women and initiates. Others are totemic, involving plants or animals that are symbolic of kin groups. Still others are relational; for example, a son-in-law may not consume food in the presence of his mother-in-law

Read more: Culture of Papua New Guinea - traditional, history, people, clothing, traditions, women, beliefs, food, customs http://www.everyculture.com/No-Sa/Papua-New-Guinea.html#ixzz1Dtf6o8oQ
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« Reply #284 on: February 13, 2011, 10:41:23 PM »

My diet is a wreck. I tried going vegan before, but it only lasted 2 days. I just can't swallow salad leafs, the texture makes me gag.

I'm a pretty skinny guy, but my metabolism is slowing down since I don't excercise. I'll eat alot of junk food and fast food all the time.

I'd like to start eating healthier right away, but vegetables I always have a problem with. Anything green basically.

Any suggestions on what my daily meals should be? I don't mind eating the same thing every day, and in fact would like to.

There is a lot going on these days to determine what is the natural human diet. Paleolithic humans ate the same basic diet for a million years ( give or take:). Neolithic Man ( Post Agriculture) has eaten a diet with all kinds of new foods for only 10,000 years.

Even though it goes against the common wisdom of today, the natural human diet is built upon meat eating ( including fish). It is 60% to 70%
 meat with the rest made up of vegetables ( mostly leafy greens) some fruit and some nuts. No sugar and no refined junk foods.

Such a diet along with moderate exercise should build up muscle and also keep you lean and healthy.

Vegetarian diets can leave you deficient in several important nutrients. Using Tofu can be particularity unhealthful...it turns out.

Here is one way to envsion this. If you have a dog, imagine never feeding him meat. How healthy would he be? Not very I don't think.  
Dogs and humans evolved together in a very close relationship exactly because we eat the same diet. We were scavenging for the same things so man and dog figured out how to hunt together and share the meat.    

That sounds really good Marc, where can I find places to get me on a daily regimen of what I should eat on a daily basis?

Here are two links to eating Traditional Diets:

www.thepaleodiet.com  (Buy the book)

www.westonaprice.org
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« Reply #285 on: February 13, 2011, 11:33:13 PM »

Thank you Marc for that. Have you found any problems with the Paleo diet?

How about this book? http://www.amazon.com/NeanderThin-Caveman-Achieve-Strong-Healthy/dp/0312975910/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1297654224&sr=1-1
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« Reply #286 on: February 14, 2011, 12:05:34 AM »

Thank you Marc for that. Have you found any problems with the Paleo diet?

How about this book? http://www.amazon.com/NeanderThin-Caveman-Achieve-Strong-Healthy/dp/0312975910/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1297654224&sr=1-1

I have the book Neander Thin. It's a gem of a book, but it is more the musings of the author who is a bit of an eccentric. Dr. Cordain who wrote The Paleo Diet is a serious researcher. But do get Neander Thin. It's a great read.

There are some problems with the Paleo Diet that are rather inside baseball. He is very politically correct and panders a bit to the establishment.
The Weston Price Foundation is not so locked into exactly what Paleolithic People ate but rather what Traditional Diets are made up of based on the research of Dr. Weston Price. He was a Dentist and pioneering nutritionist in the 1930's. That includes fermented grains sometimes and Raw Milk... but all in all the differences are slight. They also squabble about the role of animal fat in the diet and how much fat Paleolithic people ate.
 ( probably a lot).

There is a really good article on the Weston Price site about what American Indian's typically ate ( lots of fat and grease)

I find the Neander Thin advice the best:  Eat only what you can kill with a sharp stick and rock or gather.

The question of Raw Dairy and fermentation should not stop anyone from trying a more natural human diet..
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« Reply #287 on: February 14, 2011, 12:40:58 AM »

Lots of fat and grease? Interesting, what is this some sort of Atkin's Diet LOL?

I'll take a look at it and give the diet a shot.
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« Reply #288 on: February 14, 2011, 04:50:59 AM »

I'm on the Atkins diet actually.

I've been through them all. Veganism was the worst for me. I have blood sugar issues.

I do miss those Veggies burger subs from Subway though!  Grin
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« Reply #289 on: February 14, 2011, 06:07:17 AM »

My diet is a wreck. I tried going vegan before, but it only lasted 2 days. I just can't swallow salad leafs, the texture makes me gag.

I'm a pretty skinny guy, but my metabolism is slowing down since I don't excercise. I'll eat alot of junk food and fast food all the time.

I'd like to start eating healthier right away, but vegetables I always have a problem with. Anything green basically.

Any suggestions on what my daily meals should be? I don't mind eating the same thing every day, and in fact would like to.

 Here's a solution that has worked very well for me.  Since I don't particularly care for leafy greens either, what I do is put several handfuls of spinach or broccoli in blender with blueberries, cherries and strawberries or mangoes.  If you want it a bit sweeter, add in a little honey.  I sometimes also add either walnuts or almonds.  I know it doesn't sound appetizing, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.  Smiley
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« Reply #290 on: February 14, 2011, 11:16:46 AM »

Thank you Marc for that. Have you found any problems with the Paleo diet?

How about this book? http://www.amazon.com/NeanderThin-Caveman-Achieve-Strong-Healthy/dp/0312975910/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1297654224&sr=1-1

I have the book Neander Thin. It's a gem of a book, but it is more the musings of the author who is a bit of an eccentric. Dr. Cordain who wrote The Paleo Diet is a serious researcher. But do get Neander Thin. It's a great read.

There are some problems with the Paleo Diet that are rather inside baseball. He is very politically correct and panders a bit to the establishment.
The Weston Price Foundation is not so locked into exactly what Paleolithic People ate but rather what Traditional Diets are made up of based on the research of Dr. Weston Price. He was a Dentist and pioneering nutritionist in the 1930's. That includes fermented grains sometimes and Raw Milk... but all in all the differences are slight. They also squabble about the role of animal fat in the diet and how much fat Paleolithic people ate.
 ( probably a lot).

There is a really good article on the Weston Price site about what American Indian's typically ate ( lots of fat and grease)

I find the Neander Thin advice the best:  Eat only what you can kill with a sharp stick and rock or gather.

The question of Raw Dairy and fermentation should not stop anyone from trying a more natural human diet..

wacky.

pseudo-religious time filler for primarily white, American, middle to upper-middle class folks with not enough things to worry about.

Good luck with "doing paleo" during Lent.

The paleolithic was not monolithic. The are a litany of reasons why this "diet" is based on utter nonsense. I would direct you to a place where it has been thoroughly discussed and torn apart, but the tone of the place would offend the sensibilities of nearly everyone around.

That is not to say it doesn't "work". Then again, you can lose weight, just eating twinkles. And some folks "flourish" by every bio-metric we can measure by eating utter "junk" food.

Some people simply find satiety for a myriad a reasons with fewer calories by eating a diet very high in fat. And it is not a bad way to eat. But the reasons for their assertions are just silly. As is the idea that eating otherwise is "dangerous".

Just the premise of the "diet" about humanity not having time to "genetically" adapt such poisons as grains is flawed from the beginning by its utter misunderstanding of the how gene expression is influenced by environmental conditions.

This stuff is "old" news but the new fad.

The only hunting and gathering which holds up the "paleo premise" is cherry picking of data.

And even where they are correct about the data the cherry pick and "paleo" people they selectively trot out, they ignore the environmental conditions which shaped their health as well. We don't live in those time. Pick your "tribe" eat and live like them.
Start by quitting your job.

Good luck affording your grass fed beef after that.

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« Reply #291 on: February 14, 2011, 05:28:24 PM »

I'm on the Atkins diet actually.

I've been through them all. Veganism was the worst for me. I have blood sugar issues.

I do miss those Veggies burger subs from Subway though!  Grin
Do people get enough fiber through the Atkins diet?
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« Reply #292 on: February 14, 2011, 06:15:49 PM »

I'm on the Atkins diet actually.

I've been through them all. Veganism was the worst for me. I have blood sugar issues.

I do miss those Veggies burger subs from Subway though!  Grin
Do people get enough fiber through the Atkins diet?

With enough fat, you do not need fiber to have regular bowel movements. The fail in most atkins folks is that they emphasize protein over the fat. Fat ~70-80% kcal and 50g > carbs < 100g carbs, the rest is protein. You can as low as you want in the carb category, just depends on how well you enjoy real ketosis.
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« Reply #293 on: February 15, 2011, 10:10:05 AM »

I'm on the Atkins diet actually.

I've been through them all. Veganism was the worst for me. I have blood sugar issues.

I do miss those Veggies burger subs from Subway though!  Grin

It's not the Veggie Burgers that's the problem, it's the bun. You can get anything they sell at subway as a salad. They will put the Veggie Burger on top. Or you can take home the Sub and toss the Bread and wrap it with Lettuce.
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« Reply #294 on: February 15, 2011, 01:05:20 PM »

I'm on the Atkins diet actually.

I've been through them all. Veganism was the worst for me. I have blood sugar issues.

I do miss those Veggies burger subs from Subway though!  Grin

It's not the Veggie Burgers that's the problem, it's the bun. You can get anything they sell at subway as a salad. They will put the Veggie Burger on top. Or you can take home the Sub and toss the Bread and wrap it with Lettuce.

Just like the perfected paleo man did.
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« Reply #295 on: February 15, 2011, 01:31:46 PM »

I'm on the Atkins diet actually.

I've been through them all. Veganism was the worst for me. I have blood sugar issues.

I do miss those Veggies burger subs from Subway though!  Grin

Are you diabetic? What do you mean by "blood sugar issues"? Do you have a diagnosis?

I can tell you that many a late stage diabetic and a fellow I know well "cured" himself of diet of 80% fat and <35grams of carbs for a year and now allows himself up to 100 grams per day. All his symptoms are gone.

When people usually talk about "blood sugar issues" they don't have a diagnosis and just eat garbage day after day.

RE: "Veganism".

There is veganism and there is veganism. You can eat like garbage by excluding just animal products from your diet. Vegans go wrong usually by not eating enough fat and an incredible amount refined carbs.

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« Reply #296 on: February 15, 2011, 01:48:03 PM »

So what is your diet orthonorm?
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« Reply #297 on: February 15, 2011, 01:56:54 PM »

So what is your diet orthonorm?

I eat food. I don't have a lot "issues" with food. I know from experience that you can pretty much live off anything. You gain and lose weight by eating more or less.

Everyone should know by the time they are 25 what foods cause them to feel less than well and which foods they use for comfort. And which immediate family history health problems they have which diet *might* have a slight influence on.

It is really is no big deal.

Due to various sports activities in which bodyweight was an issue, I've pretty much done all there is to do lose and gain weight. And know plenty of people who have done the same.

The folks my heart goes out to are the people who parents were negligent enough to allow them to remain obese through puberty. They pretty much are going to be stuck at being overweight but still possibly in shape for their entire lives.
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« Reply #298 on: February 15, 2011, 10:53:53 PM »

So the next question is how to keep the Fast if you are a low carb, Atkins, Cave Man Diet sort of person?

And, I want to avoid Soy as I am convinced it is not good for you, especially men since it is very estrogenic.

 [  If you have been watching "The Batchelor" and "Say Yes to the Dress" a lot and have lost interest in Football, you may need to cut back on the Soy Smiley  ]

I want to take another swing at putting a lot of Coconut products into my Fasting since it is so rich in mid-chain saturated fat. Seems like you can sustatin yourself if you get enough of it as a substitute for animal fat. I dont want to fall back on loads of Pasta which is what I have done in the past or lots of Bread. I am thinking lots of Steel Cut Oatmeal, Coconut Milk and coconut,  Fruits and lots of green vegitables with the occasional veggie burger. Then some Crab Cakes,Shrimp and Calimari but I dont want to over do it. I think I can Shrimp-Out during the Fast and flirt with developing a shell fish allergy..

Suggestions?

thanx 
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« Reply #299 on: February 16, 2011, 12:00:56 AM »

So the next question is how to keep the Fast if you are a low carb, Atkins, Cave Man Diet sort of person?

And, I want to avoid Soy as I am convinced it is not good for you, especially men since it is very estrogenic.

 [  If you have been watching "The Batchelor" and "Say Yes to the Dress" a lot and have lost interest in Football, you may need to cut back on the Soy Smiley  ]

I want to take another swing at putting a lot of Coconut products into my Fasting since it is so rich in mid-chain saturated fat. Seems like you can sustatin yourself if you get enough of it as a substitute for animal fat. I dont want to fall back on loads of Pasta which is what I have done in the past or lots of Bread. I am thinking lots of Steel Cut Oatmeal, Coconut Milk and coconut,  Fruits and lots of green vegitables with the occasional veggie burger. Then some Crab Cakes,Shrimp and Calimari but I dont want to over do it. I think I can Shrimp-Out during the Fast and flirt with developing a shell fish allergy..

Suggestions?

thanx  

Sounds absolutely not Lenten. Enjoy your culinary-cult.

You could just realize that billions of people of done just fine eating unlike the speculative paleo man.

If olive oil is off the table then certainly coconut oil is too. Who are you trying to kid?

From an olive it is one thing, but from a coconut another?

Why not butter?

Or you could keep going keep "paleo" and spend all that time and worry and money. Sounds charitable.

You do realize that if everyone ate "paleo" there would not be nearly enough food to maintain the calories we have available now globally.

"My bread is a material problem. My brother's bread is a spiritual one."



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« Reply #300 on: February 16, 2011, 12:04:21 AM »

And lulz at estrogenic.

Marc, I really should PM you a place where you could keep your test high without being afraid of a soybean.

Wringing your hands over a soybean is probably more indicative of a hormonal imbalance than watching some ridiculous TV show.

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« Reply #301 on: February 16, 2011, 12:58:51 PM »

So what is your diet orthonorm?

I eat food. I don't have a lot "issues" with food. I know from experience that you can pretty much live off anything. You gain and lose weight by eating more or less.


No offense, but it sounds like you've been blessed with the ability to eat just about anything, and maintain a healthy physical lifestyle, weight etc. You do realize that not everyone is blessed as such, right? You sound a lot like my dad who to this day can sit down, eat chocolate cake every morning for breakfast, never gain weight, never have ANY health issues and then says to me "just exercise more, you'll lose weight it's easy!" Uhhh, sorry it ain't that easy. Smiley I love the man, he is my father, but he just doesn't "get" that everybody's body is different. You seem to be poo pooing "fad diets" but have you considered that some of these actually WORK for some people?

I have my problems with the strict paleo diet because as you said, there never was a monolithic version of that . . . . some of our ancestors ate LOTS of meat, however the ones who ate the most, the Neanderthals went extinct. Others may not have eaten so much meat after all. The image of the Native American eating tons of game is not always true; some ate very little game other than fish actually. So you're right to suggest there is no one cure all diet for everyone. My body simply does not tolerate meat, so I MUST get protein from somewhere else and it's tough. Not everyone can do as you and just eat anything they want and never have any issues at all.





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« Reply #302 on: February 16, 2011, 01:03:07 PM »

Whoops I missed this comment:


Everyone should know by the time they are 25 what foods cause them to feel less than well and which foods they use for comfort. And which immediate family history health problems they have which diet *might* have a slight influence on.

Total B.S. My health problems, didn't start kicking in until after 25, so from my personal experience you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. I mean I hate to be so blunt, but what you're saying just is not true, at least in my case.


Quote
It is really is no big deal.

For YOU it's no big deal that is.


Quote
The folks my heart goes out to are the people who parents were negligent enough to allow them to remain obese through puberty. They pretty much are going to be stuck at being overweight but still possibly in shape for their entire lives.

I'm glad you're not MY doctor, I'd be depressed every time I left your office.

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« Reply #303 on: February 16, 2011, 01:15:57 PM »

My diet is a wreck. I tried going vegan before, but it only lasted 2 days. I just can't swallow salad leafs, the texture makes me gag.

Same with me. But I'm trying to acclimate to some new stuff. 

Quote
I'm a pretty skinny guy, but my metabolism is slowing down since I don't excercise. I'll eat alot of junk food and fast food all the time.

That's probably the reason your slowing down, all that fast food. If you cut that out of your diet, you'll see leaps and bounds improvement. You don't have to go Vegan to be healthy, and if you're already skinny who knows, it might not be that great an idea to go Vegan. But I'm not expert, I only know what generally works for me.


Quote
I'd like to start eating healthier right away, but vegetables I always have a problem with. Anything green basically.

Try more fruits, nuts and grains. If you're not a vegetable person, this might be a good way of eating healthier. I'm not that crazy about most veggies, but I do like peas, carrots, green beans, corn, and am trying to acclimate myself to a few others, but I'm not really a veggie person. 

Quote
Any suggestions on what my daily meals should be? I don't mind eating the same thing every day, and in fact would like to.

As they say breakfast is the most important meal of the day, what do you do for breakfast? I do oatmeal, every single day for the last 3 1/2 years. I top it with berries,(bluberries, blackberries, strawberries, rasberries, etc) and will have 2 pieces of whole grain toast with it, and a tsp of raw honey. (you could also do raisins in your oatmeal too which I do about once a week) Of course this is not a low carb diet, however it's not bad carbs either. And if you're naturally thin, it shouldn't be a problem for you. Sometimes I'll have a vegan muffin with it, about once a week as a treat. I'm allergic to eggs, can't do meat or dairy, or citrus so this is pretty much my only option, but I never get tired of because I can always change it up with different types of fruit and different types of bread.

Anyways that's what I do, but it might not work for you. I'm not a doctor so can only say what seems to work for me. (even though I'm always learning and STILL trying to get in better shape and lose about 20 more pounds which seems just impossible for me for some reason)

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« Reply #304 on: February 16, 2011, 01:48:45 PM »

Whoops I missed this comment:


Everyone should know by the time they are 25 what foods cause them to feel less than well and which foods they use for comfort. And which immediate family history health problems they have which diet *might* have a slight influence on.

Total B.S. My health problems, didn't start kicking in until after 25, so from my personal experience you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. I mean I hate to be so blunt, but what you're saying just is not true, at least in my case.


Quote
It is really is no big deal.

For YOU it's no big deal that is.


Quote
The folks my heart goes out to are the people who parents were negligent enough to allow them to remain obese through puberty. They pretty much are going to be stuck at being overweight but still possibly in shape for their entire lives.

I'm glad you're not MY doctor, I'd be depressed every time I left your office.



So put up your numbers and accomplishments.

Most folks who have gone through puberty obese are never going to be lean. The hormonal changes during that period allow the wild generation of new cellular formation. If you are eating way to much then those cells are primarily going to be fat cells.

Once those cells are there, there ain't no way of getting rid of them. There is only a certain point to which you can shrink your fat cells when losing before you will lead a life in constant "starvation". It is an untenable way to live. You can however be in better shape and slight less heavy than you were at the end up puberty.

If did know you had problems before 25, you simply were not paying attention.

Again post numbers and accomplishments since you know so much. And I am not using myself as rule, I know many other and billions of people on the planet that proves for 99% of us, it comes down to calories.
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« Reply #305 on: February 16, 2011, 01:51:12 PM »

And FWIW, doctors are trained to treat illness not nutrition.

Culture trumps docs. Look at every culture prior to the ease of caloric consumption allowed by modern agriculture, obesity was not ever a problem for so much of the population as it is now. This didn't happen because of the dawn of the "neolithic" but because calories are just too cheap.

Even 70 years ago being poor meant being thin and undernourished even in America. Now being poor correlates high with obesity. Cheap calories.

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« Reply #306 on: February 17, 2011, 11:36:33 AM »



So put up your numbers and accomplishments.

Excuse me, but who are you to demand such a thing? People have come here to post and get advice, help, ideas, and a bit of encouragement on how to better their health and you come here poo pooing every other thing you disagree with, spouting off how "easy" it all really is . . . . it's reminds me of someone who has never been addicted to nicotine telling smokers how "easy" it is to quit smoking. You have a strong will, perhaps a fantastic metabolism, have been doing it all your life and so like a fish in water it IS easy and simple for you. It may not be for everyone else however.




Quote
Most folks who have gone through puberty obese are never going to be lean.

So should I just give up now? Maybe you're right, I should just give it up. I don't know. Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part and I should just be a realist. However I think you could use a lesson in bedside manners as it were.

Quote
Once those cells are there, there ain't no way of getting rid of them. There is only a certain point to which you can shrink your fat cells when losing before you will lead a life in constant "starvation". It is an untenable way to live. You can however be in better shape and slight less heavy than you were at the end up puberty.

You make a few very good points, especially in the second paragraph, much for me to think about and consider.



Quote
If did know you had problems before 25, you simply were not paying attention.

I developed severe food intolerances AFTER the age of 25. Sorry, this is simply a fact. I dunno what to tell you. I used to be able to consume dairy, now I cannot. Were there signs before then? Perhaps in some very obscure cases, but there would have been no way of determining that these things even were related to foods at all, let alone which foods. It's not like I ate such a such and immediately had adverse effects.  There were  definitely not any signs with my egg intolerance which just popped up out of nowhere, and even when it did, it was not instantaneous. It took a long process of trial and error and elimination to determine WHICH food it was that was causing me to break out in hives, spend the day on the throne, and cause my airways to constrict. (no it is technically NOT an allergy either, I've been tested for allergies, all come back showing no allergies) But once eggs were eliminated from my diet, the life threatening symptoms went away.  I can tell you that even with 2 doctors, this was NOT as easy as you make it sound, it took months to figure out which food was doing this. Granted I have other issues, and a chronic illness going on, so it's not ALL dietary in my case, it just felt like you were grouping everyone together.


Quote
And I am not using myself as rule, I know many other and billions of people on the planet that proves for 99% of us, it comes down to calories.

Ah, but you had originally said this was the case for EVERYONE. And yes, calories are what it comes down to as far as weight, but not as far as health as you've pointed out.

As far as weight/diet, which is something I also have struggled with (not to mention actual weird things like the egg issue) I just think you make it all sound too easy. You want me to post "accomplishments" but I see no point in that because I still feel as though I've not acomplished much at all, even though I intellectually know I have.

Anyways I'm not here to argue, I just felt like you were making it all seem far easier than it really is. If I've misread your intention I do apologize, I've been acting like a 1st class jerk this week in general, and didn't mean for it to cross over onto the forum.





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« Reply #307 on: February 17, 2011, 12:09:14 PM »



So put up your numbers and accomplishments.

Excuse me, but who are you to demand such a thing? People have come here to post and get advice, help, ideas, and a bit of encouragement on how to better their health and you come here poo pooing every other thing you disagree with, spouting off how "easy" it all really is . . . . it's reminds me of someone who has never been addicted to nicotine telling smokers how "easy" it is to quit smoking. You have a strong will, perhaps a fantastic metabolism, have been doing it all your life and so like a fish in water it IS easy and simple for you. It may not be for everyone else however.




Quote
Most folks who have gone through puberty obese are never going to be lean.

So should I just give up now? Maybe you're right, I should just give it up. I don't know. Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part and I should just be a realist. However I think you could use a lesson in bedside manners as it were.

Quote
Once those cells are there, there ain't no way of getting rid of them. There is only a certain point to which you can shrink your fat cells when losing before you will lead a life in constant "starvation". It is an untenable way to live. You can however be in better shape and slight less heavy than you were at the end up puberty.

You make a few very good points, especially in the second paragraph, much for me to think about and consider.



Quote
If did know you had problems before 25, you simply were not paying attention.

I developed severe food intolerances AFTER the age of 25. Sorry, this is simply a fact. I dunno what to tell you. I used to be able to consume dairy, now I cannot. Were there signs before then? Perhaps in some very obscure cases, but there would have been no way of determining that these things even were related to foods at all, let alone which foods. It's not like I ate such a such and immediately had adverse effects.  There were  definitely not any signs with my egg intolerance which just popped up out of nowhere, and even when it did, it was not instantaneous. It took a long process of trial and error and elimination to determine WHICH food it was that was causing me to break out in hives, spend the day on the throne, and cause my airways to constrict. (no it is technically NOT an allergy either, I've been tested for allergies, all come back showing no allergies) But once eggs were eliminated from my diet, the life threatening symptoms went away.  I can tell you that even with 2 doctors, this was NOT as easy as you make it sound, it took months to figure out which food was doing this. Granted I have other issues, and a chronic illness going on, so it's not ALL dietary in my case, it just felt like you were grouping everyone together.


Quote
And I am not using myself as rule, I know many other and billions of people on the planet that proves for 99% of us, it comes down to calories.

Ah, but you had originally said this was the case for EVERYONE. And yes, calories are what it comes down to as far as weight, but not as far as health as you've pointed out.

As far as weight/diet, which is something I also have struggled with (not to mention actual weird things like the egg issue) I just think you make it all sound too easy. You want me to post "accomplishments" but I see no point in that because I still feel as though I've not acomplished much at all, even though I intellectually know I have.

Anyways I'm not here to argue, I just felt like you were making it all seem far easier than it really is. If I've misread your intention I do apologize, I've been acting like a 1st class jerk this week in general, and didn't mean for it to cross over onto the forum.







Simple, not easy.  Being uncomfortable and gross motor movement control. The reason I ask how well people have done and their accomplishments is because if they have not had much success, then why listen?

And yeah the food problems I was talking about are late onset allergies Roll Eyes That is what is causing people to be obese. It ain't genetics either. Unless every genetically predisposed to be obese immigrant from Europe happen to come here and become obese while leaving their genetically similar families and friends to lead reasonably sane lives regarding food.

I doubt it.

Willpower is just doing something over and over.

You name the vice and I have probably done it. The solution to stopping every time was *not* doing it over and over again and being willing to be uncomfortable at times.

I have not only been successful but others I have worked with and a lot of other people I know and folks they help. It is too bad too many "talk" about nutrition and losing weight and don't much in a structured way about it. Helped three folks I know lose over 200 lbs. in total last year.

No magic bullets or food, just the willingness to eat less of whatever they were eating before.

Truly best of luck.

And if you were truly obese throughout and toward the end of puberty (or after incredible weight gain during pregnancy or medically produced extreme hormonal changes) you might truly have to alter what you think is possible to achieve. If you have a doctor who has been saying otherwise, you should sue them.


 



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« Reply #308 on: February 17, 2011, 12:13:12 PM »

And I don't come here poo-poo anything. Truth is helpful. Too much nonsense goes on in this country year after year about losing weight and no one usually gets anywhere.

The truth is simple for nearly everyone. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant, doesn't care, or is trying to make a buck off you.

Just go look at all those diets books on Amazon.

And now men are developing eating disorders as well as women, per the "paleo" posts or radical veganism and raw foodism and other dietary extremeties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthorexia_nervosa
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 12:13:35 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #309 on: February 17, 2011, 12:15:20 PM »

The idea of calories in calories out to lose weight hardly ever works. People simply can't stay hungry all the time. You then set yourself up to yo yo. You lose weight, break the restriction of calories and gain back wieght far faster. Your fat cells wise up to your tricks and make it harder to lose the weight the next time.

You body will also go into starvation mode when you restrict calories too much. It believes you are headed into a famine and will slow down your metabolism so you burn calories far slower.

The better way is to eat nutritionally dense foods and don't avoid fat. You become satiated with far fewer calories, get the nutrition your body needs to run itself, build muscle and drop to a normal weight.    

Try eating a hamburger and an egg for breakfast ( no bread). You wont be hungry again until 2:00 or 3:00 o'clock.
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« Reply #310 on: February 17, 2011, 12:16:14 PM »

And I don't come here poo-poo anything. Truth is helpful. Too much nonsense goes on in this country year after year about losing weight and no one usually gets anywhere.

The truth is simple for nearly everyone. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant, doesn't care, or is trying to make a buck off you.

Just go look at all those diets books on Amazon.

And now men are developing eating disorders as well as women, per the "paleo" posts or radical veganism and raw foodism and other dietary extremeties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthorexia_nervosa

You don't know what you are talking about.
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« Reply #311 on: February 17, 2011, 12:23:34 PM »

Quote
Simple, not easy.  Being uncomfortable and gross motor movement control. The reason I ask how well people have done and their accomplishments is because if they have not had much success, then why listen?

Since you keep pushing, I've lost over 100 pounds. Half of that was lost because I was so sick and in so much pain that I would go days without eating just so I would be in pain. I've kept it off for 3 1/2 years, but wish I could lose 20-30 pounds more. However from what you tell me there probably isn't much hope for that. The best I can do is "get in better shape", but with some of my other health issues that can be tough sometimes.





Quote
And if you were truly obese throughout and toward the end of puberty (or after incredible weight gain during pregnancy or medically produced extreme hormonal changes) you might truly have to alter what you think is possible to achieve. If you have a doctor who has been saying otherwise, you should sue them.

Well I was obese through puberty, and I feel my doctors are all . . . . wait this is a Christian forum so maybe I better not say...lol!

BTW are you a nutritionist? Sorry if that's a stupid question, just curious....


 




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NorthernPines
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« Reply #312 on: February 17, 2011, 12:26:59 PM »

Simple, not easy.  Being uncomfortable and gross motor movement control. The reason I ask how well people have done and their accomplishments is because if they have not had much success, then why listen?

Since you keep pushing, I've lost over 100 pounds. Half of that was lost because I was so sick and in so much pain that I would go days without eating just so I would not be in pain. The other 50 was less calories than burned, but because that was my "recovery" phase it was rather easy as well. I've kept it off for 3 1/2 years, but wish I could lose 20-30 pounds more. However from what you tell me there probably isn't much hope for that. The best I can do is "get in better shape", but with some of my other health issues that can be tough sometimes.





Quote
And if you were truly obese throughout and toward the end of puberty (or after incredible weight gain during pregnancy or medically produced extreme hormonal changes) you might truly have to alter what you think is possible to achieve. If you have a doctor who has been saying otherwise, you should sue them.

Well I was obese through puberty, and I feel my doctors are all . . . . wait this is a Christian forum so maybe I better not say...lol!

BTW are you a nutritionist? Sorry if that's a stupid question, just curious....


 




« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 12:27:22 PM by NorthernPines » Logged
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« Reply #313 on: February 17, 2011, 04:52:36 PM »

I think there are at least two main issues that people obviously feel strongly about.

One is weight loss and the other is maintaining good health and avoiding Cancer, Heart Disease and Diabetes etc.

I am more concerned with the later. I am not very much over weight. I could drop 15 lbs and that's it. i would look fine with just 10 coming off. The fast usually does the trick and i lose around 10 lbs.

My main concern is health and avoiding heart disease, feeling good in my later years and I am angry at the all the miss information we have been given by Agra-Business and the Govt.

I feel we have been miss led about what is best to eat based on what is profitable for Agra-Biz and to control food prices, not what is actually best for us. That is why Heart Disease and Cancer and Diabetes is burning through our population like a Wildfire..I don't like being lied to and I prefer not to die early.

I would highly recommend the movie "Food Inc."   

Here is the trailer and other clips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhOo1oRqH70
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orthonorm
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« Reply #314 on: March 02, 2011, 08:55:15 PM »


Well I was obese through puberty, and I feel my doctors are all . . . . wait this is a Christian forum so maybe I better not say...lol!

BTW are you a nutritionist? Sorry if that's a stupid question, just curious....

I meant to get back to this. The fasting thread where people are fretting over being "paleo" reminded me.

Please look up the requirements to be a nutritionist at most schools. Then never see one for any help with your diet.

I could give you tons of reasons why this paleo stuff utter nonsense for the most part. Certainly the theory, the idea it helps everyone lose weight and is better for you, etc. But since it is a religion, it won't matter.

BTW Marc, I was hitting ketosis and eating what you would consider "paleo" before you ever heard the names Devany, Cordain, Weston Price, and Taubes and the rest of the wackos or nutritionist Scholastics. This is nothing new, these knowledges and their realistic application have been around for centuries.

I am not a nutritionist. I've been a highly competitive athlete in many sports where dietary discipline was of the utmost importance and have ran in circles with others in the same spot.

Also because of that, I've read and know many real folks who help people lose weight successfully and sanely with a high level of success.

As I have maybe mentioned, just last year among three of the people who asked my help they have lost in total over 200 pounds.

The "hormonal argument" has legitimacy and is one of the reasons why you pretty much are never going to look much thinner than you were as you exited puberty. If a woman and put on excessive weight, you also will not "bounce back". Also if treated for a long time on high dose hormonal therapy can also create changes in your body composition which may be irreversible.

You've lost a lot of weight. Those last "pounds" are going to be difficult and nearly impossible to keep off because of the excess fat CELLS you created during puberty. Someone like me can blow up 75 pounds and unless under some incredible hormonal change, I will EDIT: not create any significant amount of new fat cells. Losing that weight will just require discipline on my part.

Sometimes a diet high in fat (not high in protein) is a life saver for type II diabetes folks, folks with epilepsy, people trying to offset the hormonal problems of SERIOUS hormonal therapy, and some folks just find it easier to find satiety on fewer calories. It can also help alter the slight hormonal effect the proverbial "beer belly" has on the body, but that is venturing into calories on a head of rice cake land.

I feel for the kids whose parents allowed them to overeat during puberty and are saddled the rest of theirs lives looking unlike the magazines say you should.

The good news is that your fat is probably relatively evenly distributed (I've never seen you) and has almost no correlation with high rates of morbidity. In fact, God forbid you suffer from a wasting disease or have to get chemo, you are in better shape to survive than I am.

People like my father who were athletes and in shape in their 20's then put on the enormous guy are the ones who have the unhealthy correlation.

Take your "true waist" to hip ratio. As a guy if you are around EDIT DUE TIREDNESS .9 (or even 1.0), you are great.

Until nutrition science gets to the point where they are able to tailor your diet to your genes (there is a little bit of this going on already), people will thrive on high fat, low fat, junk food, vegan, etc.

We are robust creatures which have needed to survice and thrive in many conditions.

People who fret over food and whether the grass their hamburger ate was organic are probably are going to have worse health due to stress than if they just ate Chicken McNuggets.

One last word: stress. If food is always a comfort, then one should probably get some help with the anxiety in their lives.

Best of Luck Northern. I truly do feel for people who get judged by their "weight" in a culture that becomes more and more obsessed with food and health and yet seems to grow more and more unhealthy and obese.

Again congratulations on your weight loss! That much weight to lose is no mean feat!




 

« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 09:20:21 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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