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Author Topic: Russian Church-Vatican Dialogue at standstill  (Read 6696 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2009, 05:35:34 PM »

Sorry, never did buy that quid pro quo basis for morality. Doesn't work, nor deal with reality.

Orthodoxy and the Vatican are not on a par: one is right, and one is wrong.

Says you. 

No, says the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church. I just agree.
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« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2009, 05:48:25 PM »

Sorry, never did buy that quid pro quo basis for morality. Doesn't work, nor deal with reality.

Orthodoxy and the Vatican are not on a par: one is right, and one is wrong.

Says you. 

No, says the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church. I just agree.

Which is a circular argument.  Catholics believe that they are the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  So again - why should Catholics listen when Orthodox complain of human rights abuses when it is abundantly clear that Russia has no intention of protecting the rights of Catholics living within her borders. 
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ialmisry
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« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2009, 07:05:27 PM »

Sorry, never did buy that quid pro quo basis for morality. Doesn't work, nor deal with reality.

Orthodoxy and the Vatican are not on a par: one is right, and one is wrong.

Says you. 

No, says the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church. I just agree.

Which is a circular argument.  Catholics believe that they are the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  So again - why should Catholics listen when Orthodox complain of human rights abuses when it is abundantly clear that Russia has no intention of protecting the rights of Catholics living within her borders. 

If Orthodox are depending on "Catholics" to defend the Faith, then they are rather lost to begin with.

No, not a circular argument: the Orthodox are not right just because they say so-you can use the Vatican's own sources (like Pope St. Leo's silver tablets on St. Peter's sine filioque)-but you have to believe in the existence of Truth (that 2+2=4 thing) to grasp that.
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« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2009, 08:02:27 PM »

Which is a circular argument.

An astute observation from the objective, superior ivory tower.
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« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2009, 08:33:51 PM »

If Orthodox are depending on "Catholics" to defend the Faith, then they are rather lost to begin with.

No, not a circular argument: the Orthodox are not right just because they say so-you can use the Vatican's own sources (like Pope St. Leo's silver tablets on St. Peter's sine filioque)-but you have to believe in the existence of Truth (that 2+2=4 thing) to grasp that.

Which is all beside the point.  The question is whether two secular republics ought to respect the rights of religious minorities within their borders. 
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ialmisry
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« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2009, 08:58:27 PM »

If Orthodox are depending on "Catholics" to defend the Faith, then they are rather lost to begin with.

No, not a circular argument: the Orthodox are not right just because they say so-you can use the Vatican's own sources (like Pope St. Leo's silver tablets on St. Peter's sine filioque)-but you have to believe in the existence of Truth (that 2+2=4 thing) to grasp that.

Which is all beside the point.  The question is whether two secular republics ought to respect the rights of religious minorities within their borders. 

You mean if they should buy into your definition of a secular republic.  You know, that of the American Irreligious Left.
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« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2009, 09:22:56 PM »

If Orthodox are depending on "Catholics" to defend the Faith, then they are rather lost to begin with.

No, not a circular argument: the Orthodox are not right just because they say so-you can use the Vatican's own sources (like Pope St. Leo's silver tablets on St. Peter's sine filioque)-but you have to believe in the existence of Truth (that 2+2=4 thing) to grasp that.

Which is all beside the point.  The question is whether two secular republics ought to respect the rights of religious minorities within their borders. 

You mean if they should buy into your definition of a secular republic.  You know, that of the American Irreligious Left.

Huh?  I'm not a member of the "American Irreligious Left".  Perhaps you could read the constitutions of both nations involved and you'd understand my point:

http://www.constitution.ru/10003000/10003000-4.htm

http://www.sejm.gov.pl/prawo/konst/polski/kon1.htm
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« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2009, 10:40:07 PM »

If Orthodox are depending on "Catholics" to defend the Faith, then they are rather lost to begin with.

No, not a circular argument: the Orthodox are not right just because they say so-you can use the Vatican's own sources (like Pope St. Leo's silver tablets on St. Peter's sine filioque)-but you have to believe in the existence of Truth (that 2+2=4 thing) to grasp that.

Which is all beside the point.  The question is whether two secular republics ought to respect the rights of religious minorities within their borders. 

You mean if they should buy into your definition of a secular republic.  You know, that of the American Irreligious Left.

Huh?  I'm not a member of the "American Irreligious Left".  Perhaps you could read the constitutions of both nations involved and you'd understand my point:

http://www.constitution.ru/10003000/10003000-4.htm

http://www.sejm.gov.pl/prawo/konst/polski/kon1.htm


I have.  Anything in particular you want to point out?
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« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2009, 03:32:27 AM »

If Orthodox are depending on "Catholics" to defend the Faith, then they are rather lost to begin with.

No, not a circular argument: the Orthodox are not right just because they say so-you can use the Vatican's own sources (like Pope St. Leo's silver tablets on St. Peter's sine filioque)-but you have to believe in the existence of Truth (that 2+2=4 thing) to grasp that.

Which is all beside the point.  The question is whether two secular republics ought to respect the rights of religious minorities within their borders. 

You mean if they should buy into your definition of a secular republic.  You know, that of the American Irreligious Left.

Huh?  I'm not a member of the "American Irreligious Left".  Perhaps you could read the constitutions of both nations involved and you'd understand my point:

http://www.constitution.ru/10003000/10003000-4.htm

http://www.sejm.gov.pl/prawo/konst/polski/kon1.htm


I have.  Anything in particular you want to point out?

That, at least according to the law of both Poland and Russia, there ought to be complete freedom of belief and the right for believers to gather for communal worship.  Especially the wording of the Polish constitution: "zarówno wierzący w Boga będącego źródłem prawdy, sprawiedliwości, dobra i piękna..."  it is hardly possible to call this sort of freedom some sort of godless conspiracy to destroy religion.  And I hardly believe it is unreasonable that I, as an Orthodox Christian, should wish that Mr. Medvedev (himself a believer whose wife is especially known for her active role in Orthodoxy) should hold to his campaign promise of making Russia a Rechtsstaat.  On what grounds do you believe it would be righteous for President Medvedev to violate his word and violate the Russian constitution in persecuting Catholics? 
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« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2009, 04:38:55 AM »

No matter how many times anti-Orthodox cyber-space propagandist claim it:

- Russia should never be "a Rechtstaat", than "pravna drzava" (which is slightly different from "the rule of law" standard), as it already is;

- a word in a presidential campaign still doesn't make it a law; therefore the claim to stick with the word in a campaign regardless the law is exactly the opposite from enforcing the rule of law;

- a promises in the campaign are made to the citizens of the country; not to anyone foreign, regardless religious affiliation the foreign one would claim;

- there is no persecution of Catholics in Russia, no matter how many propaganda cyber-claims of it are made;

- the quoted part of Polish constitution does not quarantee the right of "communal gathering for worship" regardless the laws passed on the grounds of that constitution.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2009, 08:54:19 AM »

If Orthodox are depending on "Catholics" to defend the Faith, then they are rather lost to begin with.

No, not a circular argument: the Orthodox are not right just because they say so-you can use the Vatican's own sources (like Pope St. Leo's silver tablets on St. Peter's sine filioque)-but you have to believe in the existence of Truth (that 2+2=4 thing) to grasp that.

Which is all beside the point.  The question is whether two secular republics ought to respect the rights of religious minorities within their borders. 

You mean if they should buy into your definition of a secular republic.  You know, that of the American Irreligious Left.

Huh?  I'm not a member of the "American Irreligious Left".  Perhaps you could read the constitutions of both nations involved and you'd understand my point:

http://www.constitution.ru/10003000/10003000-4.htm

http://www.sejm.gov.pl/prawo/konst/polski/kon1.htm


I have.  Anything in particular you want to point out?

That, at least according to the law of both Poland and Russia, there ought to be complete freedom of belief and the right for believers to gather for communal worship.  Especially the wording of the Polish constitution: "zarówno wierzący w Boga będącego źródłem prawdy, sprawiedliwości, dobra i piękna..."  it is hardly possible to call this sort of freedom some sort of godless conspiracy to destroy religion.
That comes up where you left off "....jak i nie podzielający tej wiary,

a te uniwersalne wartości wywodzący z innych źródeł..."

For those to whom this is Greek:

Quote
Both those who believe in God as the source of truth, justice, good and beauty....

Quote
...As well as those not sharing such faith,

but respecting those universal values as arising from other sources....
http://www.sejm.gov.pl/prawo/konst/angielski/kon1.htm

I don't know how you read "complete freedom of belief and the right for believers to gather for communal worship" into that.

Quote
  And I hardly believe it is unreasonable that I, as an Orthodox Christian, should wish that Mr. Medvedev (himself a believer whose wife is especially known for her active role in Orthodoxy) should hold to his campaign promise of making Russia a Rechtsstaat.  On what grounds do you believe it would be righteous for President Medvedev to violate his word and violate the Russian constitution in persecuting Catholics? 

LOL.  Why should I take your word that he is doing so?

From the the thread split from this one:
"Rightful owners" is a rather subjective reading of events:

Not subjective at all.  By the time of the pseudo-synods of Lviv, Uzhorod, Presov, and Alba Iulia the majority of the churches in Greek Catholic possesion were built by Greek Catholics after the unions.  The Orthodox simply had no claim to them period.

Father,

Again I've dealt with these claims in another thread.  To hear the MP tell it one would think the Orthodox were forced out at gunpoint.  I have yet to see proof of anything other than minor skirmishes, which while regretable were probably necessary as I have absolutely no confidence the MP would have willingly given back any churches.

How about some facts?  In the Greek Catholic Eparchy of Mukachevo, before the pseudo-synod, there were 440 churches.  Since 1989 the Eparchy has had 120 churches returned.  Conversely the Orthodox Eparchy has retained 260 churches.  45 churches were destroyed by the Communists.  15 churches are shared.  Since 1989 the Greek Catholics have had to build an additional 123 churches and 65 are currently under construction.

Fr. Deacon Lance


I recall posting here on one of these Churches the Vatican was claiming, the plaque on the Church, an historical landmark, clearly indicating that the Temple predated the Robber synod that submitted to the Vatican.

If I am reading the inscription write (not big enough and not enough coffee), the Church dates from the 16th century, i.e. it predates the "union"of Brest. Gee, in that case, I wonder who built it?
http://orthodoxy.org.ua/uk/mijkonfesiyni_vidnosini/2009/05/25/24234.html

If preventing the Vatican to take back properties it stole in the first place is your definition of "persecuting Catholics," or being allowed to import a hierarchy rather than coopting one, then I can only hope that Russian Pravda has another definition. (btw, yes I am aware that the Church above is in Ukraine, which is a seperate nation and ethnicity.  The issue, however is the same).

Sorry, got no interest in hoards coming into Russia and freely gather around images of Fatima in prayer for the "conversion" of Russia.
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« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2009, 11:08:44 AM »



Irish Hermit:

One of your posts on this matter in Catholic Answers on this very subject before it was erased with thousands of others.  I copied and saved it in my files.

================

Re: Greek Catholics attempt to seize an Orthodox church in the Lvov diocese
There are two sides to the question of the Orthodox-Greek Catholic struggle in the Ukraine. One major part of the problem has been the withdrawal of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholics from the Quadrennial Commission which was set up in 1990 to address the issues of tensions between Orthodox and Catholics and specifically to look at the vexed question of the ownership of churches.

Unfortunately the Ukrainian Greek Catholics soon withdrew from the Commission, being persuaded by the ultra-nationalists of RUKH (Popular Movement of Ukraine) that the Western Ukraine would be cleansed of Orthodoxy and all the churches would be in their possession. This stymied the Commission in its work of restoring churches, either to their former owners or, as in the cases where the religious demographics of the town or village has changed from majority Orthodox to majority Catholic (or vice versa), to whichever group will use and maintain the building, with provision for worship for the minority group. This last provision works in favour of the
Catholics in many areas.

Below is a small extract from a longer article by Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev with whom some members of this august forum may be familiar, either through his theological works or through his labours in the ecumenical world in Europe.

The extract is from a paper delivered on 7 October 2002 at the University of St Thomas (St Paul, Minessota, USA), and repeated on 9 October 2002 at the Catholic University of America (Washington D.C).

The complete article is located at
http://www.orthodoxeurope.org/ecurel/000001.php

Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: Prospects for Catholic-Orthodox Relations

'However, the end of 1980s was marked by a rapid deterioration in the relations between the Orthodox and the Catholic Churches. The main reason for this was the emergence of the Greek Catholic Church in Western Ukraine. Its presence, which was created after the 1596 Union of Brest, was strong in Western Ukraine until 1946, when it was banned by Stalin. After 1946, many members of this Church were imprisoned and killed and some went into exile. The Greek Catholic Church was declared to be illegal and many church
buildings that belonged to it were given to the Orthodox. A similar process took place in 1948 in Communist Romania, where the Uniate Church was also declared to be illegal and its buildings were either closed or transferred to the Orthodox.

'Now, at the end of 1980s, under the influence of the nationalist movement in Western Ukraine, the Greek Catholics began to re-establish their presence in the region. What may have become a restoration of justice, however, turned out to be a crying injustice, since the revival of the Greek Catholic Church took place at the expense of the Orthodox Church. On 29 October 1989, the Greek Catholics seized the Transfiguration Cathedral of Lvov, after
expelling the Orthodox from it. Shortly thereafter, many similar acts occurred in other parts of the country.

'January 1990 saw the creation of the so-called Quadrennial Commission, which comprised representatives of the Moscow Patriarchate, the Roman Catholic Church, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and the Eastern Rite Catholics from Western Ukraine. The Commission began to discuss concrete cases of human rights violations during the campaign launched by the Uniates. In March 1990, the Commission developed basic principles for the distribution of the property between the Greek Catholics and the Orthodox. It was agreed that, where there are two churches, one should be given to the Greek Catholics and another one remain Orthodox; where there is only one church, it should belong to the majority group, which must in this case help the minority find or build a suitable place of worship. However, on 13 March 1990, the Greek Catholics unilaterally left the Commission.
From then on the seizure of the Orthodox churches (some of them had belonged to the Orthodox even before the Union of 1596) assumed an avalanche-like character. In many places violent methods were employed by the Greek Catholics as they seized Orthodox churches and expelled parishioners from their places of worship. Tensions between the Orthodox and the Greek Catholics led to clashes and mass disorders.

By the end of 1990, most churches in Lvov, Ternopol and Ivano-Frankovsk had been captured and by the end of 1991, 597 churches had been taken from the Orthodox...............'


================

Orthodoc



I hope to review these posts on this issue, since Romania has been brought up, but one thing I find interesting is the joining of the Vatican's supporters and Rukh: if it were not for the Soviet Union annexing the area, it would still be in Poland, and no doubt instead of reunion with the Orthodox, the adherents of the "union" of Brest would have been assimilated into the Latin church, the fate of many in Poland.
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« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2009, 06:07:26 PM »


If I am reading the inscription write (not big enough and not enough coffee), the Church dates from the 16th century, i.e. it predates the "union"of Brest. Gee, in that case, I wonder who built it?
http://orthodoxy.org.ua/uk/mijkonfesiyni_vidnosini/2009/05/25/24234.html


If preventing the Vatican to take back properties it stole in the first place is your definition of "persecuting Catholics," or being allowed to import a hierarchy rather than coopting one, then I can only hope that Russian Pravda has another definition. (btw, yes I am aware that the Church above is in Ukraine, which is a seperate nation and ethnicity.  The issue, however is the same).

Sorry, got no interest in hoards coming into Russia and freely gather around images of Fatima in prayer for the "conversion" of Russia.

Gee, I wonder cause it isn't like the MP would place a plaque with a false date to bolster their claim is it?  Looks awfully good for a wooden church built in the 16th century.  In Slovakia those designated world heriatge sites only date from the 17th and 18th centuries.  Again, the great majority of the churches were built post-union by Greek Catholics, the Orthodox have no claim to them.

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« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2009, 06:10:52 PM »

I hope to review these posts on this issue, since Romania has been brought up, but one thing I find interesting is the joining of the Vatican's supporters and Rukh: if it were not for the Soviet Union annexing the area, it would still be in Poland, and no doubt instead of reunion with the Orthodox, the adherents of the "union" of Brest would have been assimilated into the Latin church, the fate of many in Poland.

The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church has a Metropolia in Poland, so much for your assimilation theory.

Fr. Deacon Lance
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« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2009, 06:36:37 PM »

I hope to review these posts on this issue, since Romania has been brought up, but one thing I find interesting is the joining of the Vatican's supporters and Rukh: if it were not for the Soviet Union annexing the area, it would still be in Poland, and no doubt instead of reunion with the Orthodox, the adherents of the "union" of Brest would have been assimilated into the Latin church, the fate of many in Poland.

The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church has a Metropolia in Poland, so much for your assimilation theory.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Where they ever compensated for the Greek Catholic Churches that were confiscated by the Poles during WWII when those GC's were torn from their villages by the Poles and their churches turned over to the Roman Catholic Church (which had to be done with the knowledge & approval of the Pope)?  Here is a picture of my grandparents former Greek Catholic Church which is now a Polish Roman Catholic Church.  It is by no means the only one that was either destroyed or became Roman Catholic (Ref. a book called 'A Church In Ruins').


http://www.lemko.org/lih/churchir/bohusha.html

=======================

Orthodoc
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« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2009, 07:06:02 PM »

I hope to review these posts on this issue, since Romania has been brought up, but one thing I find interesting is the joining of the Vatican's supporters and Rukh: if it were not for the Soviet Union annexing the area, it would still be in Poland, and no doubt instead of reunion with the Orthodox, the adherents of the "union" of Brest would have been assimilated into the Latin church, the fate of many in Poland.

The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church has a Metropolia in Poland, so much for your assimilation theory.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Yes, and the Muslims point out to the continued existence of the EP as proof of how tolerant Islam is.

As I acutally have seen the data that backs up the stories told me by those in interwar Poland, who lived through experience, deacon you are going to have to do better than projecting present situations back.
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« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2009, 07:33:37 PM »

The Ukrainians collaborated openly with the Nazi's during the war so it is only natural that the Poles, whom the Germans oppressed, would seek vengeance on them.  If some Ukrainians were expelled, they are lucky that is all they got.  I don't support the suppression of Orthodox people, but the Greek Catholics were pretty open Nazifascist.
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« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2009, 09:14:22 PM »

The Ukrainians collaborated openly with the Nazi's during the war so it is only natural that the Poles, whom the Germans oppressed, would seek vengeance on them.  If some Ukrainians were expelled, they are lucky that is all they got.  I don't support the suppression of Orthodox people, but the Greek Catholics were pretty open Nazifascist.

These are pretty broad accusations.  In general placing a definite article in front of a nationality implies entirety.  Do you care to substantiate your claims?  FWIW, I've never once heard an anti-Ukrainian statement from one of my relatives.  If anything, the opinions I've run of across among Poles towards Ukrainians is sympathy towards someone who has also suffered under Moscow's heavy hand. 
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« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2009, 03:00:24 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian-German_collaboration_during_World_War_II


During the military occupation of Ukraine by Nazi Germany, a significant number of Ukrainians chose to cooperate with the Nazis. Their reasons included the hopes of independence from the Soviet Union and past maltreatment by Soviet authorities. However, the lack of Ukrainian autonomy under the Nazis, mistreatment by the occupiers, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians as slave laborers, soon led to a rapid change in the attitude among the collaborators. By the time the Red Army returned to Ukraine, a significant number of the population welcomed the soldiers as liberators.[1] At the same time, more than 4.5 million Ukrainians had joined the Red Army to fight Germany and more than 250,000 served as Soviet partisan paramilitary units.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_Galizien_(1st_Ukrainian)
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« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2009, 03:18:20 AM »

Do you know how to count?  Honestly.  Count the numbers of Ukrainians in each of the three major groups (Nazis, Partisans, Red Army) and then re-evaluate your claims.   
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« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2009, 09:59:03 AM »

The Ukrainians collaborated openly with the Nazi's during the war so it is only natural that the Poles, whom the Germans oppressed, would seek vengeance on them.  If some Ukrainians were expelled, they are lucky that is all they got.  I don't support the suppression of Orthodox people, but the Greek Catholics were pretty open Nazifascist.

I was talking mostly about the interwar period, although yes, the campaign against the East in Poland took place after WWII, but then it had started in WWI and before (the local Habstburg, Archduke Karl Stepan was philo-Pole, and had Polanization as his pet project: in 1916 he almost became King of Poland.  Problems were that this daughters married into Polish noble families who continued the family tradition of supporting the Czar, and his son Wilhelm had become Ukrainian, becoming a vocal denouncer of the Poles' activities in Lviv as "uncivilized" and insisting on speaking in Ukrainian in Soviet imprisonment).

Btw, came across this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Ukrainians_in_Poland_2002.PNG
Quote
Ukrainians in Poland, 2002. Note strong presence in the Recovered Territories in the north and west, due to forced resettlement during Operation Wisła
Quote
Through the efforts of the martyred priest Fr. Maxim Sandovich (canonized by the Polish Orthodox Church in the 1990s), in the early 20th century, Eastern Orthodoxy was reintroduced to many Lemko areas which had accepted the Union of Brest centuries before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos#Population_Genetics
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« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2012, 03:32:14 PM »


If I am reading the inscription write (not big enough and not enough coffee), the Church dates from the 16th century, i.e. it predates the "union"of Brest. Gee, in that case, I wonder who built it?
http://orthodoxy.org.ua/uk/mijkonfesiyni_vidnosini/2009/05/25/24234.html


If preventing the Vatican to take back properties it stole in the first place is your definition of "persecuting Catholics," or being allowed to import a hierarchy rather than coopting one, then I can only hope that Russian Pravda has another definition. (btw, yes I am aware that the Church above is in Ukraine, which is a seperate nation and ethnicity.  The issue, however is the same).

Sorry, got no interest in hoards coming into Russia and freely gather around images of Fatima in prayer for the "conversion" of Russia.

Gee, I wonder cause it isn't like the MP would place a plaque with a false date to bolster their claim is it?  Looks awfully good for a wooden church built in the 16th century.  In Slovakia those designated world heriatge sites only date from the 17th and 18th centuries.  Again, the great majority of the churches were built post-union by Greek Catholics, the Orthodox have no claim to them.

Fr. Deacon Lance

I just came across this website on a number of Churches in L'viv/Galicia, founded before 1596
http://decerkva.org.ua/2drohobB.html
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« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2012, 03:40:26 PM »


If I am reading the inscription write (not big enough and not enough coffee), the Church dates from the 16th century, i.e. it predates the "union"of Brest. Gee, in that case, I wonder who built it?
http://orthodoxy.org.ua/uk/mijkonfesiyni_vidnosini/2009/05/25/24234.html


If preventing the Vatican to take back properties it stole in the first place is your definition of "persecuting Catholics," or being allowed to import a hierarchy rather than coopting one, then I can only hope that Russian Pravda has another definition. (btw, yes I am aware that the Church above is in Ukraine, which is a seperate nation and ethnicity.  The issue, however is the same).

Sorry, got no interest in hoards coming into Russia and freely gather around images of Fatima in prayer for the "conversion" of Russia.

Gee, I wonder cause it isn't like the MP would place a plaque with a false date to bolster their claim is it?  Looks awfully good for a wooden church built in the 16th century.  In Slovakia those designated world heriatge sites only date from the 17th and 18th centuries.  Again, the great majority of the churches were built post-union by Greek Catholics, the Orthodox have no claim to them.

Fr. Deacon Lance

I just came across this website on a number of Churches in L'viv/Galicia, founded before 1596
http://decerkva.org.ua/2drohobB.html

I know it's Paschaltide, but all of this resurrection of old, emotion-filled threads seems like someone is picking a fight....
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« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2012, 03:48:40 PM »


If I am reading the inscription write (not big enough and not enough coffee), the Church dates from the 16th century, i.e. it predates the "union"of Brest. Gee, in that case, I wonder who built it?
http://orthodoxy.org.ua/uk/mijkonfesiyni_vidnosini/2009/05/25/24234.html


If preventing the Vatican to take back properties it stole in the first place is your definition of "persecuting Catholics," or being allowed to import a hierarchy rather than coopting one, then I can only hope that Russian Pravda has another definition. (btw, yes I am aware that the Church above is in Ukraine, which is a seperate nation and ethnicity.  The issue, however is the same).

Sorry, got no interest in hoards coming into Russia and freely gather around images of Fatima in prayer for the "conversion" of Russia.

Gee, I wonder cause it isn't like the MP would place a plaque with a false date to bolster their claim is it?  Looks awfully good for a wooden church built in the 16th century.  In Slovakia those designated world heriatge sites only date from the 17th and 18th centuries.  Again, the great majority of the churches were built post-union by Greek Catholics, the Orthodox have no claim to them.

Fr. Deacon Lance

I just came across this website on a number of Churches in L'viv/Galicia, founded before 1596
http://decerkva.org.ua/2drohobB.html

I know it's Paschaltide, but all of this resurrection of old, emotion-filled threads seems like someone is picking a fight....

So I'm not the only one who noticed.
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