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Author Topic: New EO Metropolitan in the USA  (Read 1887 times) Average Rating: 0
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mike
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« on: May 13, 2009, 11:42:09 AM »

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b) Appoint Metropolitan Dimitri (Shiolashvili) as a ruler of the Georgian parish in North America and Canada, and name him Metropolitan of Batumi and Lazeti Eparchy and ruler of Georgian parish in North America and Canada;
http://www.patriarchate.ge/_en/?action=news_show&mode=news&id=84

Where are the Georgian Parishes? I've never heard of any.

BTW: Worthy!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 11:46:15 AM by mike » Logged

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Anastasios
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2009, 12:08:09 PM »

It was always my understanding that Georgians were ministered to by the OCA.  I had heard of a mission here or there, and they do a Georgian Akathist in the Washington DC OCA Cathedral.  Perhaps the patriarchate wants more direct and targeted pastoral care for its diaspora?

In a rather odd coincidence, at one time we Old Calendarists in America had both a Georgian and a South Ossetian priest serving two of our Greek parishes. I never asked if they got on the topic of politics .... Wink
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 12:08:58 PM by Fr. Anastasios » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2009, 12:11:41 PM »

I had heard that they were going to try to do something through the EP instead of on their own...so this is definitely a shock to me. 
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2009, 12:15:22 PM »

I had heard that they were going to try to do something through the EP instead of on their own...so this is definitely a shock to me. 

Count one not in the EP's corner come June.  I think it might be a signal.
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 12:25:51 PM »

I had heard that they were going to try to do something through the EP instead of on their own...so this is definitely a shock to me. 

Count one not in the EP's corner come June.  I think it might be a signal.

As far as I know (and I have some very reliable sources) it had nothing to do with whether or not they wanted to be with the EP on this (which they did), but rather a problem of personalities.  Some bishops just wanted america and wanted to do it their way. 
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ialmisry
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2009, 02:05:46 PM »

I had heard that they were going to try to do something through the EP instead of on their own...so this is definitely a shock to me. 

Count one not in the EP's corner come June.  I think it might be a signal.

As far as I know (and I have some very reliable sources) it had nothing to do with whether or not they wanted to be with the EP on this (which they did), but rather a problem of personalities.  Some bishops just wanted america and wanted to do it their way. 

Perhaps, but in anycase it  is not going to help the EP assert his "right" to the diaspora any, though it does underline the need to get this resolved.  Pretty much, all we need is the Church of Cyprus and the Church of the Czech and Slovak lands put an exarch somewhere, and ALL (including the OCA) autocephalous Churches would have struck in the "diaspora."
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2009, 02:11:00 PM »

I wonder what will happen now?  Remember Jerusalem tried to set up shop in America and got knocked down for trying.
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 02:48:54 PM »

I wonder what will happen now?  Remember Jerusalem tried to set up shop in America and got knocked down for trying.

Different dynamic perhaps (if these are Georgians in diaspora we are talking about).

Jerusalem doesn't care about their Arabs in Palestine, why should it both her to sell the ones in America out with their converts?
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 02:53:48 PM »

I wonder what will happen now?  Remember Jerusalem tried to set up shop in America and got knocked down for trying.

BTW Whats are with them now? Are they under EP or remained under JP?

Could one post a brief info about what was happening with Georgian Parishes up to this date? They aren't listed on neither of the Parish directories (SCOBA or Orthodoxy in America). How many there are of them? Who ruled them?
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 04:19:49 PM »

I wonder what will happen now?  Remember Jerusalem tried to set up shop in America and got knocked down for trying.

BTW Whats are with them now? Are they under EP or remained under JP?

The Jerusalem Patriarchate in North and South America still has it web site, and the parishes still list themselves as being under Jerusalem. Once more, on the GOA website, the only thing about the "Jerusalem Vicarate" is the announcement in August.
http://jerusalempatriarchate.net/

http://www.slocc.com/index.html

Quote
St. Lawrence Orthodox Christian Church is a parish under the Jerusalem Patriarchate. Our governing economos is Archpriest George Jweinat, representative of the Patriarchate in North and South America. The priests of the parish are Fr. Thaddaeus Hardenbrook and Fr. Luke Dingman. Our bookkeeper is Diana Adams
http://www.slocc.com/parish/who4.html
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 08:07:14 AM »

I had heard that they were going to try to do something through the EP instead of on their own...so this is definitely a shock to me. 

Count one not in the EP's corner come June.  I think it might be a signal.

As far as I know (and I have some very reliable sources) it had nothing to do with whether or not they wanted to be with the EP on this (which they did), but rather a problem of personalities.  Some bishops just wanted america and wanted to do it their way. 

Perhaps, but in anycase it  is not going to help the EP assert his "right" to the diaspora any, though it does underline the need to get this resolved.  Pretty much, all we need is the Church of Cyprus and the Church of the Czech and Slovak lands put an exarch somewhere, and ALL (including the OCA) autocephalous Churches would have struck in the "diaspora."

And your preferred Church of Alexandria (which of the two you've not stated).
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ialmisry
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 01:06:14 PM »

I had heard that they were going to try to do something through the EP instead of on their own...so this is definitely a shock to me. 

Count one not in the EP's corner come June.  I think it might be a signal.

As far as I know (and I have some very reliable sources) it had nothing to do with whether or not they wanted to be with the EP on this (which they did), but rather a problem of personalities.  Some bishops just wanted america and wanted to do it their way. 

Perhaps, but in anycase it  is not going to help the EP assert his "right" to the diaspora any, though it does underline the need to get this resolved.  Pretty much, all we need is the Church of Cyprus and the Church of the Czech and Slovak lands put an exarch somewhere, and ALL (including the OCA) autocephalous Churches would have struck in the "diaspora."

And your preferred Church of Alexandria (which of the two you've not stated).

The EO, the one in my bishops' diptychs.  But I pray for Pope Shenoudah too, and have met him on a few occasions.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 01:06:51 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2009, 09:20:25 PM »

Dear Friends:

This is probably a natural development from the growth of the Georgian community in he US; but also concern for the growing coziness between the OCA and the Moscow Patriarchate.

Up to now, the few Georgian communities in New York and Washington DC. have been under the omophorion of the OCA metropolitan. A new Georgian parish with approximately 3,000 members was recently formed in the Philadelphia area. They have purchased land, and plan to construct a church edifice. The Georgian American community is growing as a result of immigration fueled by the large number of refugees from the three Russian invasions of Georgia, which resulted in the ethnic cleansing of over 400,000 Georgian Orthodox Christians (a full 10% of the total national population) from their homes and livelihoods. Furthermore, the continued threats by the Russian regime and constant attempts to undermine the Georgian government and economy have kept the Georgian people in poverty. Large numbers of young people have emigrated to Greece, Western Europe, and the U.S in order to earn some money and support their families back home. This is certainly true in our own family and circle of friends.

Historically, the hierarchy of the Georgian Patriarchate have had cordial relationships with those of the Moscow Patriarchate. Many of them studied together before Georgia had its own seminaries. Until last December, Patriarch Aleksei continued to recognize and support the territorial integrity of the Georgian Patriarchate (at least publicly). In December, the Moscow Patriarchate suffered severe financial losses due to the collapse of the Moscow real estate market. Patriarch Aleksei requested a financial bail out from the Putin government. Since that time, a number of senior Russian clergymen including the new Patriarch Kyrill have made anti-Georgian statements, declaring that Georgia "deserved" to be invaded, and declaring intent to organize church life in the occupied territories.

In reality, this has already occurred for many years. The Moscow Patriarchate established, staffed and funded a non-canonical "Autonomous Abkhaz Eparchy" on the territory of, and within the seized churches and monasteries of the legitimate Georgian Orthodox Diocese of Sokhumi, whose bishop Daniel still presides over his diocese in exile. Just his past March, the clergy of the St George Monastery in the Kodori region were expelled from their monastery at gunpoint by the occupation forces.  BTW, this issue may be addressed during the upcoming Pan Orthodox meeting. His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew has expressed unswerving commitment to the territorial integrity of the Georgian Patriarchate and its dioceses. There is a clear case to be made against the MP and its proxies in Abkhazia, that could conceivably result in their deposition from the episcopacy!  if nothing else, it will certainly counter the Muscovite's claim to uphold the purity of the canonical tradition and their accusations against the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

What complicates the situation in America, is a growing attachment of some in the OCA for the Russian "mother church". In recent interviews, Metropolitan Jonah suggested giving a bishop of the Russian Synod a seat on he OCA's governing Synod! He also declared an interest to establish a Russian monastery of the "Valaam tradition" in the Eastern United States. (This interview was published on the OCAnews. org website; but has since disappeared, although comments about "Jonah's Second Interview" are still posted there.)  Given the abominable treatment of innocent Orthodox Christians in Georgia by the Russian government, the cozy relationship between the MP and the Putin dictatorship, and the growing attachment of Metropolitan Jonah and the MP; it may simply be too uncomfortable for Georgian Christians to remain under the umbrella of the OCA. Hence, the move to establish a direct link to the Patriarchate back home. Given the fact that the OCA's Romanian Archdiocese has moved to reunite with its Mother Church, there is little reason to deny the Georgian parishes the same option.

Hope this helps explain.

Kriste Aghsdga !  Christ Is Risen !
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 09:48:31 PM »

P. S.

I forgot to mention, the Statement from the Patriarchate does not establish a new diocese in the US, nor will there be a resident Georgian bishop here. Rather, Metropolitan Dmitri of Batumi (Adchara) will supervise the Georgian Orthodox parishes in North America.

Metropolitan Dmitri is Patriarch Ilya's nephew, and quite well regarded by all. Meupe Dmitri has been an innovator in his attempts to engage the wider culture and to attract young people to the church. Meupe Dmitri founded the annual "Orthodox Film Festival" in Batumi, where the Russian movie "Ostrov" (the Island) had its premier.

FF

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