OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 23, 2014, 01:37:40 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: the church's teaching on the jews  (Read 49304 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,608


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2009, 11:55:53 AM »

All right, so how did Christ fail to fulfill the prophecies? We're all ears.

I heard a debate some years ago between a Rabbi and a Protestant Minister. The Rabbi listed all of the scriptural requirements to recognize the Messiah and pointed that Jesus fullfilled only some of them. The reply was that the rest were to be fullfilled in the second coming.

I am not an Old Testament scholar ( to be sure). I cant site the complete list for you. Consult your local Rabbi.

The point is, the Jewish objections are not exactly as vacuous as we make them out to be.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Jonathan Gress
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA
Posts: 3,060


« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2009, 12:30:02 PM »

All right, so how did Christ fail to fulfill the prophecies? We're all ears.

I heard a debate some years ago between a Rabbi and a Protestant Minister. The Rabbi listed all of the scriptural requirements to recognize the Messiah and pointed that Jesus fullfilled only some of them. The reply was that the rest were to be fullfilled in the second coming.

I am not an Old Testament scholar ( to be sure). I cant site the complete list for you. Consult your local Rabbi.

The point is, the Jewish objections are not exactly as vacuous as we make them out to be.
Interesting. Well this would certainly pose a BIG problem for an Orthodox Christian if it were true, since it implies that the Apostles and Fathers didn't know what they were talking about, that the Pharisees, Sadducees, chief priests etc were justified in condeming Christ to death, and that basically we should all convert to Talmudic Judaism. That certainly seems to be where this is going.

If that thought scares you, maybe you should treat the Rabbinical arguments with more skepticism. In particular, you need to question the underlying assumptions of Pharisaic/Talmudic reasoning. The patristic understanding of the rabbinical view is that the Jews see the redemption of Israel as an event to take place in this (fallen) world. The Church, on the other hand, has a more spiritual understanding; the redemption of Israel in fact takes place outside of this world, in the world to come. Read the passion accounts in the Gospels again, with commentaries like those of St Theophylact. The Jews were finally convinced Christ was NOT the Messiah when he willingly accepted death on the Cross. Their minds were limited to this world only, and so bodily death brought an end to their hopes.

This is why we treat the rabbinical arguments with contempt, since they reveal a carnal, rather than a spiritual mindset. You can't really argue against them, since they won't understand until they change their mindset. Christ doesn't just fulfill the prophecies in the sense of ticking off boxes on some checklist, but in a holistic sense of fulfilling the entire spirit behind the law and the prophets.

Still if you want to see an example of a Christian attempt to argue against the rabbis, you can start with St Justin's dialog with Trypho one of the earliest anti-Judaic polemics. It should at least give you some ideas about how to think about this issue.
Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,608


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2009, 06:40:31 PM »

All right, so how did Christ fail to fulfill the prophecies? We're all ears.

I heard a debate some years ago between a Rabbi and a Protestant Minister. The Rabbi listed all of the scriptural requirements to recognize the Messiah and pointed that Jesus fullfilled only some of them. The reply was that the rest were to be fullfilled in the second coming.

I am not an Old Testament scholar ( to be sure). I cant site the complete list for you. Consult your local Rabbi.

The point is, the Jewish objections are not exactly as vacuous as we make them out to be.
Interesting. Well this would certainly pose a BIG problem for an Orthodox Christian if it were true, since it implies that the Apostles and Fathers didn't know what they were talking about, that the Pharisees, Sadducees, chief priests etc were justified in condeming Christ to death, and that basically we should all convert to Talmudic Judaism. That certainly seems to be where this is going.

If that thought scares you, maybe you should treat the Rabbinical arguments with more skepticism. In particular, you need to question the underlying assumptions of Pharisaic/Talmudic reasoning. The patristic understanding of the rabbinical view is that the Jews see the redemption of Israel as an event to take place in this (fallen) world. The Church, on the other hand, has a more spiritual understanding; the redemption of Israel in fact takes place outside of this world, in the world to come. Read the passion accounts in the Gospels again, with commentaries like those of St Theophylact. The Jews were finally convinced Christ was NOT the Messiah when he willingly accepted death on the Cross. Their minds were limited to this world only, and so bodily death brought an end to their hopes.

This is why we treat the rabbinical arguments with contempt, since they reveal a carnal, rather than a spiritual mindset. You can't really argue against them, since they won't understand until they change their mindset. Christ doesn't just fulfill the prophecies in the sense of ticking off boxes on some checklist, but in a holistic sense of fulfilling the entire spirit behind the law and the prophets.

Still if you want to see an example of a Christian attempt to argue against the rabbis, you can start with St Justin's dialog with Trypho one of the earliest anti-Judaic polemics. It should at least give you some ideas about how to think about this issue.

Your first statement is ridiculous but then the rest of your post details why it is ridiculous.

Yes indeed, the Rabbinical analysis of scripture is informed by a different paradigm than the Christian view. The point is that it isn't a totally empty hand as Christians often  assume. They have considerable scriptural arguments to present and reasonably so. We tend to dismiss their viewpoint as if they are insane when the Truth is that our argument requires more than one leap of faith.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
IPC
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RZC
Posts: 308


« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2009, 10:05:42 PM »

Quote from the Prologue of Ohrid

http://www.westsrbdio.org/prolog/my.html?day=1&month=June

REFLECTION

No one has ever spread as much shameful slander about Christ the Lord as the Jews. Their Talmud boils over with evil and malice toward the Lord.

Logged

THIS USER USED THE SCREEN NAME PRAVOSLAV09 BEFORE.
Bogoliubtsy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,268



« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2009, 10:08:32 PM »

Quote from the Prologue of Ohrid

http://www.westsrbdio.org/prolog/my.html?day=1&month=June

REFLECTION

No one has ever spread as much shameful slander about Christ the Lord as the Jews. Their Talmud boils over with evil and malice toward the Lord.



But you too sure seem to hate and slander almost every Orthodox Church. Hey, maybe you're a Jew!
Logged

"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,608


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2009, 10:26:06 PM »

Quote from the Prologue of Ohrid

http://www.westsrbdio.org/prolog/my.html?day=1&month=June

REFLECTION

No one has ever spread as much shameful slander about Christ the Lord as the Jews. Their Talmud boils over with evil and malice toward the Lord.



No one discredits Orthodoxy more than those within our Church who are filled with hatred and malice.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 10:38:43 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
observer
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 546

Vivre die Raznitsa!


« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2009, 10:40:52 PM »

Jews and Hebrews.  Hebrews are those who converted to Judaism (the true Hebrews DNA is to found in some Ethiopians and Yemenis) and interbred to produce the modern Brooklyn Jew.  The Jews are those who practice this diabolical religion (Your father is the father of lies - not my quote Undecided) and reject the Messiah.  These are they that our Church condemns.  Nothing to do with hate, since we must not hate the sinner.  But to white wash these Jews is to ignore history and the current situation.  I have a million quotes to sustain this but I think as Orthodox Christians we should get on with working on our sins and ignore these haters of the goyim.
Logged

Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,608


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2009, 10:47:26 PM »

Jews and Hebrews.  Hebrews are those who converted to Judaism (the true Hebrews DNA is to found in some Ethiopians and Yemenis) and interbred to produce the modern Brooklyn Jew.  The Jews are those who practice this diabolical religion (Your father is the father of lies - not my quote Undecided) and reject the Messiah.  These are they that our Church condemns.  Nothing to do with hate, since we must not hate the sinner.  But to white wash these Jews is to ignore history and the current situation.  I have a million quotes to sustain this but I think as Orthodox Christians we should get on with working on our sins and ignore these haters of the goyim.

Nice....  I think I need to take a shower now.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Eugenio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I love them all
Posts: 460



« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2009, 11:19:14 PM »

Wow. James Von Brunn would have a lot of fellow travelers who have posted in this thread.
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2009, 08:30:05 AM »

You can read it on the Net at
http://www.new-ostrog.org/pogroms.html
 
SERMON AGAINST THE POGROMS
Antony, Metropolitan of Kiev
First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church outside Russia

Delivered in the Cathedral of Zhitomir on 20 April, 1903




 
The joyous feast of reconciliation, the Resurrection of Christ, continues. We have completed the commemoration of the Thomas, who was the first to confess that the risen Jesus is our true God, and we are now singing of the deeds of the myrrhbearers. We commemorate those women who did not grow weak in their faithfulness to Christ even during the terrible days when He was betrayed and put to death, and who were accounted worthy to announce His resurrection to the apostles. The apostles would enlighten the world by proclaiming the resurrection, but these holy women had first enlightened the apostles with it.

In extolling their faith, the Church calls all of us to imitate this struggle and to participate in the preaching of the resurrection. We are called upon to become so penetrated by joy in Him that we not only forget about the evil done against us by enemies, but to forgive from our hearts their hatred toward us and not only forgive them, but even love our enemies. We must now strive to embrace with love all mankind, inviting them to share with us the spiritual ecstacy of that new life revealed so clearly to us, that everlasting life filled with blessed communion with God. Now is fulfilled that prophecy of Isaiah; "And everlasting joy ... illness, sorrow and sighing have, fled away" (Is 35:10).

The grace of Christ's resurrection shines brightly even in our corrupt age, and it shines not only on the pious but even on those who are unconcerned. During these sacred days, those who did not pray earlier now turn to prayer; even those whose hearts were hardened. We greet one another with the kiss of peace, and even the unmerciful and miserly find pleasure in showing love toward their neighbour. "Christ is risen and life springs forth" as the God-fearing voice of Chrysostom proclaims. But amidst such comforting circumstances in our Christian life, sorrowful, shameful news reaches us that in the city of Kishenev, on the very day of Christ's resurrection, on the day of forgiveness and reconciliation, there occurred the cruel inhuman massacre of unfortunate Jews.

At the very time when in the holy temples there was being sung, "Let us embrace one another and say 'brother' even to those who hate us..." yes at that very time, outside the church walls, a drunken, beastly mob broke into Jewish homes, robbing the peaceful inhabitants and tearing human beings into pieces. They threw their bodies from windows into the streets and looted Jewish stores. A second crazed, greed filled mob rushed in to steal the clothing and jewelry from the bloodied corpses, seizing everything they could lay hand on. Like Judas, these robbers enriched themselves with silver drenched in blood - the blood of these hapless human sacrifices!

O God! How did Thy goodness endure such an insult and offence to the day of Thy saving passion and glorious resurrection! Thou didst endure Thy terrible struggle so that we would be dead to sin and live in Thee (Rm.6:11), but here they cruelly and in a most beastly manner slaughtered those who are Thy relatives according to the flesh, who, though they did not recognise Thee are still dear to Thy heart as Thou Thyself didst say not long before Thou didst suffer in the flesh, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou who killest the prophets and stone those who are sent to thee; how often have I longed to gather your children as a hen gathers its chicks under its wing, and you desired it not" (Matt. 23:37).

O brethren, I wish to make you understand this so that you would comprehend that even today the Jewish tribe is dear to God's heart, and realise that God is angered by anyone who would offend that people. Lest anyone suppose that we are selecting words from the sacred scripture with partiality, let me cite for you the words of that man whom the Jews hated above all men. This is the man whom a company of the Jews vowed neither to eat nor drink until they had killed him (Acts 23:12) - Apostle Paul.

Hearken to the words of God's spirit speaking through him: "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing my witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen" (Rm. 9:1-5).

Startling and frightening word! Did you truly write them, Paul, you who came to love Christ, who began to live in Christ as Christ lived in you? For whose sake did you consent to be separated from Christ? Was it not you, Paul, who wrote the lines preceding this verse "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rm.8:38-39). Even the angels could not have done that which you would voluntarily have done for the sake of the salvation of the Jews - those who were your enemies, your betrayers, they who beat you with whip, chained you in prison, exiled you and condemned you to death.

Behold, brethren and marvel: these words of Apostle Paul are spoken concerning the Jews, even though they were opposed to Christ's faith. Lest your perplexity i continue, that same apostle and martyr explaining in the following chapter, the reason for his love of the house of Israel! "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God" (10:1-2)

The words are confirmed in our own day by the life of the Jews. Observe for yourselves their dedication to their law, their preservation of the Sabbath, their faithfulness to their spouses, their love of work and their love toward their children, whom they encourage toward obedience. There was a time not so long ago when Christians excelled them in all these things, but in our present corrupt and degenerate age, we must look with regret upon all these qualities of the way of life of pious Jews. In our cities, the majority of Christians no longer distinguish between the ordinary day, feastdays and fasts, but have fallen into negligence and a loose life.

It is true that there are also some like this among the Jews, but from whom did they learn such a disorderly path? Alas, from those whose forefathers confess Christ, from European and Russian nihilists who, like toads, swarm over our land, whose books and newspapers poison the air around us like the plague and cholera.
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2009, 08:33:06 AM »

The Karaim and Talmud Jews must be respected, but woe to both those nihilists from among the Jews and from among us, who are corrupting both family and society, who sow the seed of their contagion among Russian and Polish youth, and who are the main cause of the hatred toward the descendants of the holy forefathers and prophets beloved by the Lord. I am not speaking about respect for these nihilists among the Jews.

Listen as the blessed apostle further explains the reason for his warm, self-denying love toward this people; hear how he explains their unbelief and obduracy toward Christ "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy" (11:11). If the Jews had all accepted Christ's faith, then the heathens who despised the Jews would have rejected it. If the Jews had all believed, then we, brethren, would not have become Christians, but would still be worshipping Jupiter and Venus or Perun and Volass as our pagan ancestors did. Be cautious, therefore, about slandering the unbelief of the Jews; rather grieve over it and pray that the Lord may be revealed to them. Do not be at enmity with them, but respect the apostolic word about the Israelite root and the branches that broke from it "Because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. " (11:20-21)

O Christians, fear to offend the sacred, even though rejected, tribe. God's recompense will fall upon those evil people who have shed blood which is of the same race as the Theanthropos, his most pure mother, apostles and prophets. Do not suppose that this blood was sacred only in the past, but understand that even in the future reconciliation to the divine nature awaits them (2Pt.1:4), as Christ's chosen vessel further testifies, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written. There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (11:25-27).

Let the savage know that they have slain future Christians who were yet in the loins of the present day Jews; let them know that they have shown themselves to be bankrupt opponents of God's providence, persecutors of a people beloved by God, even after its rejection (11:28).

How sinful is enmity against Jews, based on an ignorance of God's law, and how shall it be forgiven when it arises from abominable and disgraceful impulses. The robbers of the Jews did not do so as revenge for opposition to Christianity, rather they lusted for the property and possessions of others. Under the thin guise of zeal for the faith, they served the demon of covetousness. They resembled Judas who betrayed Christ with a kiss while blinded with the sickness of greed, but these murderers, hiding themselves behind Christ's name, killed His kinsmen according to the flesh in order to rob them.

When have we beheld such fanaticism? In Western Europe during the middle ages, heretics and Jews were shamefully executed, but not by mobs intent on robbing them.*

How can one begin to teach people who stifle their own conscience and mercy, who snuff out all fear of God and, departing from the holy temple even on the bright day of Christ's Resurrection, a day dedicated to forgiveness and love, but which they i rededicate to robbery and murder?

O believers in God and His Christ! Fear the Lord's judgment in behalf of His people. Fear to offend the inheritors of the promise, even though they have been renounced. We are not empowered to judge them for their unbelief; the Lord and not we will judge. We, looking upon their zeal even though it is "not according to knowledge" (Rm.10:2) would do better to contemplate their fathers: the righteous Abraham, Isaak, Jakob, Joseph and Moses, David and Samuel and Elijah, who rose to heaven still in the flesh. Look upon Isaiah who accepted voluntary death for the faith, Daniel who stopped the mouths of beasts in a lions' den, and the Maccabbee martyrs who died with joy for the hope of resurrections. Let us not beat, slay and rob people, but soften their hardness toward Christ and Christians by means of our own fulfilment of the law of God. Let us multiply our prayer, love, fasting and alms and our concern for those who are suffering, let us be zealous about the true essence of the faith; let our light so shine before people that they may glorify our heavenly father and Christ. Let us overcome unbelief and impiousness among Christians first, and then concern ourselves with the Jews, "And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heavens must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:20-21).


***
Saint Antony Khrapovitsky not only preached against the pogroms, and attempted to influence the government to intervene, but on at least one occasion, he placed himself in the breach. While he was bishop in Volyn, a mob of pogromists was marching on the local synagogue. Metropolitan Antony drove his carriage into the path of the surging march, placing himself between the mob and the synagogue, and censured the crowd for their intended crime.
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2009, 09:41:26 AM »

How the Bulgarian Orthodox Church and its Bishops Saved the Lives of 49,000 Jews from being sent to the Nazi death camps in Western Europe.  The teaching of the Church expressed in the actions of love.

This is a little known and remarkable piece of history in World War II.

Please search the Internet and find the history of it.



The plaque shown above is found in Plovdiv and commemorates the spot where Kiril, Metropolitan Bishop of Plovdiv, the future Patriarch, stood by the Bulgarian Jews and threatened to lie across the railway tracks to prevent the Nazis sending the Jews to the extermination camps.  . "I won't leave you ..." are the words on the plaque.

Metropolitan Kyrill, later Patriarch of Bulgaria
willing to sacrifice his own life to save the Jews


« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 09:42:39 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2009, 10:10:09 AM »

...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”

In the Old Testament, no matter in which language, the word "Jew" is never applied to Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King Saul, King David, or King Solomon.  The word translated in many English versions as "Jew" first occurs in 2 KINGS 16:6,(and then only in translations revised in the eighteenth century) and it refers to those of the territory of the two tribes, that is, the men of the kingdom of Judah in the south ("Judah" is from the Hebrew; "Judaea, Judea" is Latin from the Greek "Ioudaios"), as opposed to those in the kingdom of Israel in the north, the territory of the ten other tribes. According to the Oxford English dictionary (1978), the word "Jew" (Gyv) occurs for the first time in English c. 1275 A.D.

The Lord Jesus Christ lived on Earth as a Judaean (in the LXX  “The Septuagint”, Or what the Protestants erroneously call-Fie! the “Alexandrian Scriptures”and New Testament, "Ioudaios") in that He was a member of the tribe of Judah (a tribe named for one of the sons of the Patriarch Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham)---as was prophesied of the Messiah in GENESIS 49:10: Christ will be the King of Judah, the King of the Judaeans, the King of all Israel, the King of kings and Lord of lords.  Christ's Life on Earth was an enfleshment of the Divine economy: in Him the Old Covenant, given to Old Israel to prepare her for Him, was passing away, was being brought to its fulfillment in the birth of His Church (Which Today is the Orthodox Catholic Church aka. The Eastern Orthodox Church, or the Greek Orthodox Church), the New Israel. Christ therefore "fulfilled all righteousness" (MATTHEW 3:15): He was obedient to the very Law He had given to Moses some thirteen hundred years before. This is a dimension of His kenosis, His self-emptying for the salvation of all who wanted Him. He was circumcised, baptised, wore tassles from the corners of his garment, told the Samaritan woman that "salvation is from the Judaeans"---meaning, the ten other tribes (the kingdom of Israel) had been absorbed by Assyria in the eighth century B.C., and the center of what God had until then revealed was in Judah/Judaea. Christ, though, lived on Earth not just as a Judaean, a member of one of only two remaining tribes (the other being Benjamin) but as a member of Old Israel, the people who kept the oracles of God and awaited the fulfillment of His promises---for it is from within the Old economy that God establishes the New. As an Israelite, Christ tells the non-Israelite Samaritan woman: "...The time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain (Gerazim, in Samaria, in the northern kingdom of Israel) NOR in Jerusalem (in the southern kingdom of Judah/Judaea)...A time is coming and has now come when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth (in My Church, The Orthodox Christian Church, The Orthodox Catholic Church)..." (JOHN 4:21,23). The one true God always desired Israel to be composed of all nations; Israel, though, very often said NO! to God. Christ, then, is God in His human nature offering sacrifice on behalf of Israel's sins: Israel cannot save herself, so God will save her in Himself, in His Church the New Israel, His Body---just as He had promised in post-Fall Eden, and had been promising through His holy prophets for centuries. Christ is Who every true Israelite (and all the nations) had been yearning for, dreaming of, waiting for. And yet: Saint Paul teaches that "they are not all Israel which are Israel" (ROMANS 9:6).

Christ most certainly was not "Jewish" in the sense meant by modern Jewish spiritual descendants of the Pharisees, so-called "Orthodox Jews", for these spiritual descendants, by rejecting Christ, are not Israel: and neither were those Pharisees who'd done the same. Neither the Jews who wrote down the oral law of those Christomachist (Christ-Fighting) Pharisees in the normative Jewish work known as the Talmud (completed c. 500 A.D.), which places Christ in hell, in boiling excrement and semen (GITTIN 57a) nor the "mystical" branch of those Pharisees (a member of which was the 13th century Moses de Leon, who wrote the ZOHAR [part of Kabbalah], passing it off as the work of the 2nd century A.D. Rabbi Simeon ben Yochai) which places Him on a dung heap filled with worms, with Mohammad and dead dogs and dead donkeys (ZOHAR III, 282a) have anything to do with Jesus Christ: they WANT nothing to do with Him.  They are not His; He is not theirs. The Jews who composed these normative works of Judaism completely perverted the revelation of God, in order to exult in their own demonic traditions, which they picked up during their exile in Babylon (which did not end in the late 6th century B.C. [relatively few of the children of Israel returned to Jerusalem with Ezra and Nehemiah: most remained in Babylon] but lasted until the Moslems expelled them from the region in the 11th century A.D.), and to identify the Lord Jesus Christ with them is to be guilty of anachronism at best, and at worst, is a subversion of the economy of the Lord, He Who taught believers that all Judaeans, all the tribe of Judah, all inhabitants of Judah, ALL who rejected Him were "this generation," a phrase which in Greek (n autn genea) means those who share traits, especially negative traits,  in this case the sin of having rejected Him. Those Judaeans who cut themselves off from Christ perpetuated a religion which defines itself in opposition to Him and His Church. 

This religion is now called "Judaism," which is discontinuous with the revelation God gave Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and King David, since that revelation IS ABOUT CHRIST: this is a fact of salvation history. Judaism and its Jews, however, not only reject Christ but perversely excoriate Him: this is a fact of damnation history.  The religion of present-day Jews (the synagogue of satan) has nothing to do with what the Lord Who is Yahweh revealed to Old Israel in the Old Testament, a revelation that, properly understood---that is, according to the mind of the Church---is Christian, for it was CHRIST Who is revealing Himself to Old Israel: "If you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote of Me" (JOHN 5:46).  "Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms" (LUKE 24:44). "The words of Moses are the words of Christ" (Saint Irenaios of Lyons, AGAINST HERESIES, Book IV, Chapter 2). Find someone today who identifies himself as an "Orthodox" Jew and ask him if he believes that Christ is Yahweh (when you see the Greek words "o wv" in the nimbus that surrounds Christ's head in ikons, you are beholding the Church's teaching that Christ is “He Who Is”, Yahweh, "the God of the Old Testament," Who is actually the God of both the Old and the New) or if he believes the teaching of Saint Irenaios. No "real" Jew believes that the Lord Jesus Christ was a "real" Jew. Indeed, a "real" Jew believes that Christ perverted Judaism, that He was an apostate Jew.

"Jewish" means accepting the synagogue's view of Christ---a false prophet, a deceiver who led Israel astray: therefore this term cannot honestly be retrojected into the Old Testament, since the Old Testament righteous were responding not to proto-Talmudists but to the pre-incarnate Christ.  To call the Old Testament righteous men and women "Jewish" is to ahistorically assert that they were proto-Jews, spiritual ancestors of those who now inhabit today's synagogues. But this is not what the Lord Jesus Christ taught.  He says to those Pharisees (spiritual fathers of modern "Orthodox" Jews) who were rejecting Him by claiming that only Abraham was their father that "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see MY DAY" (JOHN 8:56). Again, all the Old Testament righteous were responding to the pre-incarnate Christ, Who in the Spirit reveals the Father.

Abraham was not even a Judaean (the twelve tribes did not yet exist), let alone a Jew, but a Gentile (from Mesopotamia) to whom the Lord God (Christ) condescended to reveal part of His plan for mankind. Since the twelve tribes did not yet exist, how can we call Isaac and Jacob even Judaeans, let alone Jews, which is now, 2000 years after the Incarnation, the term for the synagogue (of satan), that is, the rebellious men and women who throughout the centuries have continued to reject Christ and therefore God? Isaac did not reject the preincarnate Christ Who was saving Israel: indeed, Isaac is a type of Christ; Jacob not only did not reject Christ, but prophesied His reign. Moses was of the tribe of Levi and a member of Old Israel. God made him prophet and Lawgiver. Moses prophesied that God would "raise up for (Old Israel) a prophet like you (Moses) from among their brethren" (DEUTERONOMY 18:18): this prophecy is about Christ.  And so is every word of the Law, if understood according to the mind of the Church. King David was a Judaean in that he belonged to the tribe of Judah: but Judaeans are not necessarily Jews. King David prophesies about Christ: he is FOR Him, anticipatively. The entire Old Testament is about Christ.  A Jew, however, is someone who accepts and perpetuates the teachings of Christomachist (Christ-Fighting) Pharisees, teachings which the Lord Jesus Christ condemned in terms so terrifying that we would do well to reread His words, lest we are tempted to believe the current Jewish (and Protestant) teaching that "Jesus was one of US."  In WHAT EVERY CHRISTIAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT JEWS AND JUDAISM, 

Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein writes (parenthetical remark mine): "Pharisaic Judaism became normative Judaism. Its principle features---the synagogue, the rabbi, prayer, Torah study, and belief in the oral law (which, though condemned by Christ as a perversion of the word of God which would "help" the Pharisees to reject Him, Jews later expressed in writing as the Talmud) became the modes of religious expression guiding Jewish life ever since.  All Jewish life today therefore stems from the Pharisaic tradition and derives its central religious characteristics from it" (Word Books, Waco, TX, 1984, p. 258). Jews are those who hold to the false teaching that on Mount Sinai God gave Moses not only the written Law, but also a secret "oral tradition"---the very oral tradition that the Lord Jesus Christ condemns in his attacks on the Pharisees, thereby eternally separating Himself and His disciples from what was to become "Judaism."

True Christians (Orthodox Catholic Christians aka. Eastern Orthodox Christians) would do well to take this separation seriously, since it will continue on Judgment Day and into Eternity.

Jesus was a 'Judean', not a Jew.

During His lifetime, no persons were described as "Jews" anywhere. That fact is supported by theology, history and science. When Jesus was in Judea, it was not the "homeland" of the ancestors of those who today style themselves "Jews". Their ancestors never set a foot in Judea. They existed at that time in Asia, their "homeland", and were known as Khazars, a Turkic Tribe. In none of the manuscripts of the original Old or New Testament was Jesus described or referred to as a "Jew". The term originated in the late eighteenth century as an abbreviation of the term Judean and refers to a resident of Judea without regard to race or religion, just as the term "Texan" signifies a person living in Texas.

In spite of the powerful propaganda effort of the so-called "Jews", they have been unable to prove in recorded history that there is one record, prior to that period, of a race religion or nationality, referred to as "Jew". The religious sect in Judea, in the time of Jesus, to which self-styled "Jews" today refer to as "Jews", were known as "Pharisees". "Judaism" today and "Pharisaism" in the time of Jesus are the same.

Jesus abhorred and denounced "Pharisaism"; hence the words, "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites, Ye Serpents, Ye Generation of Vipers".

THE END AND GLORY BE TO GOD!
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2009, 10:14:19 AM »

Wow. James Von Brunn would have a lot of fellow travelers who have posted in this thread.

That was just a Hoax, seeing as how the jews and Israel lost brownie points for Genociding the poor defenceless Gazans. So they dug up "right-wing" conspiracy boogeymans.

Please quit watching zionist controlled MSM's
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 10:17:41 AM by sdcheung » Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2009, 10:19:53 AM »

Jews and Hebrews.  Hebrews are those who converted to Judaism (the true Hebrews DNA is to found in some Ethiopians and Yemenis) and interbred to produce the modern Brooklyn Jew.  The Jews are those who practice this diabolical religion (Your father is the father of lies - not my quote Undecided) and reject the Messiah.  These are they that our Church condemns.  Nothing to do with hate, since we must not hate the sinner.  But to white wash these Jews is to ignore history and the current situation.  I have a million quotes to sustain this but I think as Orthodox Christians we should get on with working on our sins and ignore these haters of the goyim.

Now this is a statement I can stand behind.

We've got converts coming into Orthodoxy, they still have the Love the  Goyim-hating Talmud worshipping Pharissees mentality.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 10:20:21 AM by sdcheung » Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2009, 10:25:02 AM »

Don`t forget salvation comes from jews and the parents and the promises .

You sound like a Dispensationalist Christian Zionist.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2009, 10:37:17 AM »

The Church, by preserving the memory of the Holy Martyrs murdered by jews, reminds us the teachings of our Lord and God Jesus Christ, concerning the Pharisees, whom we now call jews, and reveals how until this very same day, they continue to do what their fathers did when our God and Lord Jesus Christ came down to earth.

Holy prophets martyrs of the Old Testament,  Protomartyr Stephen, Holy Child Martyr Gabriel of Zabludov, Holy Martyr Matrona of Salonica, and all the Holy Martyrs tortured and murdered by the jews, pray to God for us, and expose the members of the synagogue of satan.

SDC-

You also forgot Saint Philoumenos of Jacobs Well, murdered by Zionist Jews in 1979.






 








[/quote]
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
IPC
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RZC
Posts: 308


« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2009, 10:38:24 AM »

JESUS CHRIST Our God, speaking to the Jews in the Gospel of St. John, VIII:44:

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is not truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. - then answered the Jews - ” (which makes it clear that Christ was addressing the Jews.)


ST. JUSTIN, martyr stated in 116 A. D.:

“The Jews were behind all the persecutions of the Christians. They wandered through the country everywhere hating and undermining the Christian faith.”


ST. JOHN, Gospel of St. John VII:1:

“After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry because the Jews sought to kill him.”

This shows Jesus our God is not a jew.



« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 10:43:04 AM by Pravoslav09 » Logged

THIS USER USED THE SCREEN NAME PRAVOSLAV09 BEFORE.
Eugenio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I love them all
Posts: 460



« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2009, 10:53:30 AM »

sdcheung, you're denying that this shooting even happened?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31208188/

I think Stephen T. Johns would disagree.
Logged
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2009, 10:54:36 AM »

sdcheung, you're denying that this shooting even happened?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31208188/

I think Stephen T. Johns would disagree.

Just a Hoax, to boost up their Brownie Points after losing them in the Gazan Genocides. ie. A Diversionary tactics..ie. Oh Look at us, we're suffering again.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 10:55:16 AM by sdcheung » Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2009, 10:55:49 AM »

Did you write this or have you presented it to the Forum members without acknowledging the real author?


...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”

In the Old Testament, no matter in which language, the word "Jew" is never applied to Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King Saul, King David, or King Solomon.  The word translated in many English versions as "Jew" first occurs in 2 KINGS 16:6,(and then only in translations revised in the eighteenth century) and it refers to those of the territory of the two tribes, that is, the men of the kingdom of Judah in the south ("Judah" is from the Hebrew; "Judaea, Judea" is Latin from the Greek "Ioudaios"), as opposed to those in the kingdom of Israel in the north, the territory of the ten other tribes. According to the Oxford English dictionary (1978), the word "Jew" (Gyv) occurs for the first time in English c. 1275 A.D.

<Big snip>

Jesus abhorred and denounced "Pharisaism"; hence the words, "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites, Ye Serpents, Ye Generation of Vipers".

THE END AND GLORY BE TO GOD!

Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2009, 10:59:35 AM »

...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”

Jesus was a 'Judean', not a Jew.


For the sake of the readers of the Forum would you pleae prove that by referencing the Latin and Greek Fathers of the Church and their terminology, and also theologians, Greek, Russian, Arabic, if you wish.  I suspect that you are way outside of the Orthodox patristic tradition.
Logged
Eugenio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I love them all
Posts: 460



« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2009, 11:00:40 AM »

sdcheun, you then deny the words of Our Lord in John 4:21-23?

".21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

What Jesus was saying was that he was the way of salvation...and he is a Jew!
Logged
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2009, 11:01:18 AM »

Did you write this or have you presented it to the Forum members without acknowledging the real author?


...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”

In the Old Testament, no matter in which language, the word "Jew" is never applied to Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King Saul, King David, or King Solomon.  The word translated in many English versions as "Jew" first occurs in 2 KINGS 16:6,(and then only in translations revised in the eighteenth century) and it refers to those of the territory of the two tribes, that is, the men of the kingdom of Judah in the south ("Judah" is from the Hebrew; "Judaea, Judea" is Latin from the Greek "Ioudaios"), as opposed to those in the kingdom of Israel in the north, the territory of the ten other tribes. According to the Oxford English dictionary (1978), the word "Jew" (Gyv) occurs for the first time in English c. 1275 A.D.

<Big snip>

Jesus abhorred and denounced "Pharisaism"; hence the words, "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites, Ye Serpents, Ye Generation of Vipers".

THE END AND GLORY BE TO GOD!


The Real Author is a Traditionalist Old Calendarist Orthodox Christian who does not wish to be named.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #69 on: June 15, 2009, 11:02:21 AM »

sdcheun, you then deny the words of Our Lord in John 4:21-23?

".21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

What Jesus was saying was that he was the way of salvation...and he is a Jew!
Are you Dispensationalist Orthodox Christian Zionist?

ONLY a Christian Zionist would trot stuff like this.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Eugenio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I love them all
Posts: 460



« Reply #70 on: June 15, 2009, 11:11:28 AM »

You mean "stuff" like Holy Scripture?HuhShocked
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #71 on: June 15, 2009, 11:13:56 AM »

...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”


The Lord Jesus Christ lived on Earth as a Judaean ...in that He was a member of the tribe of Judah

So the inscription which was placed on the Cross in the three languages is not saying that His crime was to claim to be "King of the Jews."  But He was killed for the much lesser crime of simply being "King of the Judeans"?  Is that what you are saying?  He was killed merely for claiming to be the King of the one of the tribes?

I think you are playing silly linguistic games.

Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum

ישוע הנצרי ומלך היהודים (Yeshia haNasri ūmelek hayehudim)

Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ Bασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων

« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 11:14:52 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,380



« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2009, 11:15:10 AM »

sdcheung, you're denying that this shooting even happened?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31208188/

I think Stephen T. Johns would disagree.


A man is dead, gunned down as he opened the door for an old man who then shot him.  I heard it on the news less then an hour after it happened.  The shooter is a real person who has a history of decades with web presence and more.  He is still alive and according to this morning's news to be arraigned next week.  You're right, Eugenio.  Mr. Jones, may he rest in Peace, would disagree that this shooting was a "hoax".  To call it so is despicable.  Sad
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2009, 11:17:27 AM »

...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”


The Lord Jesus Christ lived on Earth as a Judaean ...in that He was a member of the tribe of Judah

So the inscription which was placed on the Cross in the three languages is not saying that His crime was to claim to be "King of the Jews."  But He was killed for the much lesser crime of simply being "King of the Judeans"?  Is that what you are saying?  He was killed merely for claiming to be the King of the one of the tribes?

I think you are playing silly linguistic games.

Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum

ישוע הנצרי ומלך היהודים (Yeshia haNasri ūmelek hayehudim)

Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ Bασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων



Sorry not Silly Linguistic games..

I just think he was a Gallileean, and a NAzarene but certainly NOT A Jew. (or what us Modern people would call a Jew)
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #74 on: June 15, 2009, 11:18:57 AM »

sdcheung, you're denying that this shooting even happened?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31208188/

I think Stephen T. Johns would disagree.


A man is dead, gunned down as he opened the door for an old man who then shot him.  I heard it on the news less then an hour after it happened.  The shooter is a real person who has a history of decades with web presence and more.  He is still alive and according to this morning's news to be arraigned next week.  You're right, Eugenio.  Mr. Jones, may he rest in Peace, would disagree that this shooting was a "hoax".  To call it so is despicable.  Sad

Old man was an Useful expendable Idiot
Sorry about the Victim, But it was for the glory of Zionism and the Holocaust and to divert attention.

The religion of Orthodox Judaism is designed so as to capitalize on and benefit from any violent attack on it or it adherents. Without such violence from outsiders, attacks are sometimes orchestrated from within.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 11:23:29 AM by sdcheung » Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,380



« Reply #75 on: June 15, 2009, 11:21:30 AM »

Jews and Hebrews.  Hebrews are those who converted to Judaism (the true Hebrews DNA is to found in some Ethiopians and Yemenis) and interbred to produce the modern Brooklyn Jew.  The Jews are those who practice this diabolical religion (Your father is the father of lies - not my quote Undecided) and reject the Messiah.  These are they that our Church condemns.  Nothing to do with hate, since we must not hate the sinner.  But to white wash these Jews is to ignore history and the current situation.  I have a million quotes to sustain this but I think as Orthodox Christians we should get on with working on our sins and ignore these haters of the goyim.

Huh Do you have some back up sources for this idea on DNA, please?    "modern Brooklyn Jew"?   Huh Huh

Let's not ignore history, indeed, so that the many many cases of Christians brutalizing Jewish people aren't forgotten either.


Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,608


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #76 on: June 15, 2009, 11:28:54 AM »

...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”


The Lord Jesus Christ lived on Earth as a Judaean ...in that He was a member of the tribe of Judah

So the inscription which was placed on the Cross in the three languages is not saying that His crime was to claim to be "King of the Jews."  But He was killed for the much lesser crime of simply being "King of the Judeans"?  Is that what you are saying?  He was killed merely for claiming to be the King of the one of the tribes?

I think you are playing silly linguistic games.

Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum

ישוע הנצרי ומלך היהודים (Yeshia haNasri ūmelek hayehudim)

Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ Bασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων



Sorry not Silly Linguistic games..

I just think he was a Gallileean, and a NAzarene but certainly NOT A Jew. (or what us Modern people would call a Jew)

Did he not teach in the Synagogues? Do you believe that non-Jews were allowed to teach in Synagogue?..

This kind of nutty ultra right wing speculation is of the same sort as that of the Atheists who claim that Jesus never lived and was a factious charactor. Nothing discredits our faith more in the eye's of non-Christians than this sort of tripe and the violence it has led to in the past. "How can this Jesus have been the True Messiah if his followers are so deluded and hate filled?"
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #77 on: June 15, 2009, 11:32:38 AM »

...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”


The Lord Jesus Christ lived on Earth as a Judaean ...in that He was a member of the tribe of Judah

So the inscription which was placed on the Cross in the three languages is not saying that His crime was to claim to be "King of the Jews."  But He was killed for the much lesser crime of simply being "King of the Judeans"?  Is that what you are saying?  He was killed merely for claiming to be the King of the one of the tribes?

I think you are playing silly linguistic games.

Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum

ישוע הנצרי ומלך היהודים (Yeshia haNasri ūmelek hayehudim)

Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ Bασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων



Sorry not Silly Linguistic games..

I just think he was a Gallileean, and a NAzarene but certainly NOT A Jew. (or what us Modern people would call a Jew)

Did he not teach in the Synagogues? Do you believe that non-Jews were allowed to teach in Synagogue?..

This kind of nutty ultra right wing speculation is of the same sort as that of the Atheists who claim that Jesus never lived and was a factious charactor. Nothing discredits our faith more in the eye's of non-Christians than this sort of tripe and the violence it has led to in the past. "How can this Jesus have been the True Messiah if his followers are so deluded and hate filled?"

God help the Orthodox Church we've let Christian Zionist Protestant Converts in.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,608


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2009, 11:34:30 AM »

sdcheung, you're denying that this shooting even happened?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31208188/

I think Stephen T. Johns would disagree.


A man is dead, gunned down as he opened the door for an old man who then shot him.  I heard it on the news less then an hour after it happened.  The shooter is a real person who has a history of decades with web presence and more.  He is still alive and according to this morning's news to be arraigned next week.  You're right, Eugenio.  Mr. Jones, may he rest in Peace, would disagree that this shooting was a "hoax".  To call it so is despicable.  Sad

Old man was an Useful expendable Idiot
Sorry about the Victim, But it was for the glory of Zionism and the Holocaust and to divert attention.

The religion of Orthodox Judaism is designed so as to capitalize on and benefit from any violent attack on it or it adherents. Without such violence from outsiders, attacks are sometimes orchestrated from within.



Wowza !

Where does this sort of rhetoric place you on the political spectum? How is this sort of position different from that of Nazi's, the Ku Klux Klan, Arian Nation and other White Supremacists?.. Do we really want Orthodox Christianity placed within that sort of company?
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,380



« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2009, 11:34:57 AM »

He was also taken to the Temple as a faithful Jew was supposed to dedicate the first born son, circumcised as is in accordance with the Jewish law, kept the Passover as a Jew and more.  As Marc1152 wrote he taught in the synagogues and as is written in the Gospel he read from the Scroll.

Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #80 on: June 15, 2009, 11:35:32 AM »

sdcheung, you're denying that this shooting even happened?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31208188/

I think Stephen T. Johns would disagree.


A man is dead, gunned down as he opened the door for an old man who then shot him.  I heard it on the news less then an hour after it happened.  The shooter is a real person who has a history of decades with web presence and more.  He is still alive and according to this morning's news to be arraigned next week.  You're right, Eugenio.  Mr. Jones, may he rest in Peace, would disagree that this shooting was a "hoax".  To call it so is despicable.  Sad

Old man was an Useful expendable Idiot
Sorry about the Victim, But it was for the glory of Zionism and the Holocaust and to divert attention.

The religion of Orthodox Judaism is designed so as to capitalize on and benefit from any violent attack on it or it adherents. Without such violence from outsiders, attacks are sometimes orchestrated from within.



Wowza !

Where does this sort of rhetoric place you on the political spectum? How is this sort of position different from that of Nazi's, the Ku Klux Klan, Arian Nation and other White Supremacists?.. Do we really want Orthodox Christianity placed within that sort of company?

Third Positionist, national Anarchist.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,608


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #81 on: June 15, 2009, 11:36:24 AM »

...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”


The Lord Jesus Christ lived on Earth as a Judaean ...in that He was a member of the tribe of Judah

So the inscription which was placed on the Cross in the three languages is not saying that His crime was to claim to be "King of the Jews."  But He was killed for the much lesser crime of simply being "King of the Judeans"?  Is that what you are saying?  He was killed merely for claiming to be the King of the one of the tribes?

I think you are playing silly linguistic games.

Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum

ישוע הנצרי ומלך היהודים (Yeshia haNasri ūmelek hayehudim)

Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ Bασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων



Sorry not Silly Linguistic games..

I just think he was a Gallileean, and a NAzarene but certainly NOT A Jew. (or what us Modern people would call a Jew)

Did he not teach in the Synagogues? Do you believe that non-Jews were allowed to teach in Synagogue?..

This kind of nutty ultra right wing speculation is of the same sort as that of the Atheists who claim that Jesus never lived and was a factious charactor. Nothing discredits our faith more in the eye's of non-Christians than this sort of tripe and the violence it has led to in the past. "How can this Jesus have been the True Messiah if his followers are so deluded and hate filled?"

God help the Orthodox Church we've let Christian Zionist Protestant Converts in.

Answer the question:  Did he not teach in the Synagogues? Do you believe that non-Jews were allowed to teach in Synagogue?
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,380



« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2009, 11:38:56 AM »

Old man was an Useful expendable Idiot
Sorry about the Victim, But it was for the glory of Zionism and the Holocaust and to divert attention.

The religion of Orthodox Judaism is designed so as to capitalize on and benefit from any violent attack on it or it adherents. Without such violence from outsiders, attacks are sometimes orchestrated from within.


The old man has a history all his own of hatred in his own words.  

What reliable documentation do you have for your claim that there are "orchestrated attacks"?  Why should you be an accepted authority?  

Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2009, 11:39:25 AM »

...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”


The Lord Jesus Christ lived on Earth as a Judaean ...in that He was a member of the tribe of Judah

So the inscription which was placed on the Cross in the three languages is not saying that His crime was to claim to be "King of the Jews."  But He was killed for the much lesser crime of simply being "King of the Judeans"?  Is that what you are saying?  He was killed merely for claiming to be the King of the one of the tribes?

I think you are playing silly linguistic games.

Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum

ישוע הנצרי ומלך היהודים (Yeshia haNasri ūmelek hayehudim)

Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ Bασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων



Sorry not Silly Linguistic games..

I just think he was a Gallileean, and a NAzarene but certainly NOT A Jew. (or what us Modern people would call a Jew)

Did he not teach in the Synagogues? Do you believe that non-Jews were allowed to teach in Synagogue?..

This kind of nutty ultra right wing speculation is of the same sort as that of the Atheists who claim that Jesus never lived and was a factious charactor. Nothing discredits our faith more in the eye's of non-Christians than this sort of tripe and the violence it has led to in the past. "How can this Jesus have been the True Messiah if his followers are so deluded and hate filled?"

God help the Orthodox Church we've let Christian Zionist Protestant Converts in.

Answer the question:  Did he not teach in the Synagogues? Do you believe that non-Jews were allowed to teach in Synagogue?

He was jew, but he was not a jew who we would label a Jew Today.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,380



« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2009, 11:41:48 AM »

Interesting that actually taking the Gospel as truth and citing it makes one a "Christian Zionist Protestant Converts"   Undecided 
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,608


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2009, 11:46:11 AM »

...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”


The Lord Jesus Christ lived on Earth as a Judaean ...in that He was a member of the tribe of Judah

So the inscription which was placed on the Cross in the three languages is not saying that His crime was to claim to be "King of the Jews."  But He was killed for the much lesser crime of simply being "King of the Judeans"?  Is that what you are saying?  He was killed merely for claiming to be the King of the one of the tribes?

I think you are playing silly linguistic games.

Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum

ישוע הנצרי ומלך היהודים (Yeshia haNasri ūmelek hayehudim)

Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ Bασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων



Sorry not Silly Linguistic games..

I just think he was a Gallileean, and a NAzarene but certainly NOT A Jew. (or what us Modern people would call a Jew)

Did he not teach in the Synagogues? Do you believe that non-Jews were allowed to teach in Synagogue?..

This kind of nutty ultra right wing speculation is of the same sort as that of the Atheists who claim that Jesus never lived and was a factious charactor. Nothing discredits our faith more in the eye's of non-Christians than this sort of tripe and the violence it has led to in the past. "How can this Jesus have been the True Messiah if his followers are so deluded and hate filled?"

God help the Orthodox Church we've let Christian Zionist Protestant Converts in.

Answer the question:  Did he not teach in the Synagogues? Do you believe that non-Jews were allowed to teach in Synagogue?

He was jew, but he was not a jew who we would label a Jew Today.

Okay....How so?

Ritual circumcision, keeping the Passover, attending Temple and reading from the Torah etc. are all still done today.

He was of a Jewish Mother and in the line of David.

But I am glad we have made some progress and you at least admit that he was a Jew. Perhaps it is your own personal anti-sematism that is clouding your judgement....
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2009, 11:47:53 AM »


I just think he was a Gallileean, and a NAzarene but certainly NOT A Jew.

Well, you would be totally wrong. 

How many non-Jews were circumsized?

How many non-Jewish children were taken to be presented in the Temple and the parents allowed to make a sacrifice for them?

"When the time of their purification according to the Law of Moses
had been completed, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem
to present him to the Lord (as it is written in the Law of the Lord,
'Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord')
and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said
in the Law of the Lord: 'a pair of doves or two young pigeons" (Luke 2:21-24).

How many non-Jewish children were allowed in the Temple to dispute with the elders?

How many non-Jews were allowed in the Temple to teach?
Logged
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,467


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2009, 11:48:01 AM »

Third Positionist, national Anarchist.

So everyone here is informed, so-called Third Positionists are a neo-fascist movement mostly associated in the United States with groups like Tom Metzger's White Aryan Resistance (WAR).  Timothy McVeigh also fit nicely into this movement, although I don't think he actually self-identified himself as such.

Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #88 on: June 15, 2009, 11:49:47 AM »

...BUT JESUS WAS A JEW.
“ON THAT OLD JEWISH AND PROTESTANT EXCUSE”


The Lord Jesus Christ lived on Earth as a Judaean ...in that He was a member of the tribe of Judah

So the inscription which was placed on the Cross in the three languages is not saying that His crime was to claim to be "King of the Jews."  But He was killed for the much lesser crime of simply being "King of the Judeans"?  Is that what you are saying?  He was killed merely for claiming to be the King of the one of the tribes?

I think you are playing silly linguistic games.

Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum

ישוע הנצרי ומלך היהודים (Yeshia haNasri ūmelek hayehudim)

Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ Bασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων



Sorry not Silly Linguistic games..

I just think he was a Gallileean, and a NAzarene but certainly NOT A Jew. (or what us Modern people would call a Jew)

Did he not teach in the Synagogues? Do you believe that non-Jews were allowed to teach in Synagogue?..

This kind of nutty ultra right wing speculation is of the same sort as that of the Atheists who claim that Jesus never lived and was a factious charactor. Nothing discredits our faith more in the eye's of non-Christians than this sort of tripe and the violence it has led to in the past. "How can this Jesus have been the True Messiah if his followers are so deluded and hate filled?"

God help the Orthodox Church we've let Christian Zionist Protestant Converts in.

Answer the question:  Did he not teach in the Synagogues? Do you believe that non-Jews were allowed to teach in Synagogue?

He was jew, but he was not a jew who we would label a Jew Today.

Okay....How so?

Ritual circumcision, keeping the Passover, attending Temple and reading from the Torah etc. are all still done today.

He was of a Jewish Mother and in the line of David.

But I am glad we have made some progress and you at least admit that he was a Jew. Perhaps it is your own personal anti-sematism that is clouding your judgement....

I said he was Jew but not a Talmud - Pharasaical Jew, or the jews that murdered him.

Yeah yeah Anti-Semite whatever.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
sdcheung
it's as if..Saint Photios and Saint Mark Ephesus, has come back
Banned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,325


...even though Romania Falls, another will Rise...


« Reply #89 on: June 15, 2009, 11:51:09 AM »

Third Positionist, national Anarchist.

 Timothy McVeigh



"allegedly" Bombed the Murrah building?
Another Hoax.
Logged


Keep Breed Mixing, and this Maine Coon Cat will be the last of it's kind. /\
No profanities in your sig line if you're going to post in the public forum.
Tags: Messianic Judaism 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.192 seconds with 72 queries.