OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 21, 2014, 10:08:10 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Well Over 1 Million Italians Protest Homosexual Civil Unions in Rome  (Read 5549 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Entscheidungsproblem
Formerly Friul & Nebelpfade
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Machine God
Posts: 4,495



WWW
« on: May 15, 2007, 11:45:26 PM »

1.5 Million Italians Turn Out in Massive Rome Protest Against Homosexual Civil Unions
Oraganizers Were Expecting Only 100,000

By Gudrun Schultz

ROME, Italy, May 14, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Italians from across the country poured into Rome May 12 to join in a demonstration against a law that would give legal recognition to homosexual couples--reports showed up to 1.7 million people overflowed the St. John Lateran piazza. Organizers initially expected to draw about 100,000.


The proposed legislation would give homosexual couples--and unmarried heterosexual couples--similar rights to those of married couples, stopping just short of legalizing homosexual marriage.

"Living together is not family," protester Anna Manara told the Associated Press.
"A commitment such as marriage cements the bond, while other models make it easier to be together and therefore end up making it less valuable."

While the pro-family demonstration was backed by the Vatican and Italy's Catholic bishops, it was organized by lay people independently of the Church. The "mind-blowing" success of the event is an outstanding example of the power held by ordinary citizens when sufficiently mobilized in support of traditional values, said Fr. John Zuhlsdorf, a priest in Rome who is the moderator of the Catholic Online Forum (see blogsite: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2007/05/winners-and-losers).

"The importance of this event is not merely that when left to their own devices the Italian people will support traditional values in great numbers, giving the lie to the script presented by the intellectuals in the press. It also means in concrete terms that the traditional values laity can organize and achieve results."

"The success of "Family Day" also highlights a now deeply entrenched trend not only in Italy, but in the West: the marginalization of the Church from the public square," Fr. Zuhlsdorf said. "Nearly everywhere the Church's is being denied its right to speak freely. Committed Catholic and other religious politicians and public figures and are pressured never to make reference to their religious convictions. The constant mantra is that religion should be a purely private matter than has no influence on public policy. Be religious, fine. But you may never act outwardly on your interior opinions."

Former Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi decided to attend the event when he saw an anti-Catholic cartoon about "Family Day" in the Communist Il Manifesto. Speaking out against those who claim to be Catholic while holding positions in opposition to Church teaching, Berlusconi said, "Left-wing Catholics are an insurmountable contradiction."

"You cannot be at the same time Catholics - and as such considerate of the doctrine of the Church and its teachings on various questions - and then stand with those who are cheek by jowl on the other side."

He went on, "In these recent times there is an attack on the freedom of the Church to express its own convictions. There comes to my mind what happened in the Communist countries, the Church of silence that could speak only within the ambit of its own buildings." (Translation by Fr. Zuhlsdorf.)

More than 1,000 U.S. rabbis joined in solidarity with pro-family demonstrators in Rome--Rabbi Yehuda Levin, with the Rabbinical Alliance of America and the Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the U.S. and Canada, sent a statement of support and solidarity to organizers of the Rome event and the Warsaw pro-family Congress.

Rabbi Levin applauded "the millions of morally decent family orientated Italians who utterly reject any legislative efforts to accord recognition to homosexual unions."

The rabbi said homosexual activism was "a problem of domestic moral terrorism by those who boldly, flagrantly and proactively agitate to undermine the most basic values of society, a reverence for innocent life, and the Biblically ordained family unit."

"The attempted homosexualization of the Holy Land with sacrilegious parades in Jerusalem, an affront to all religions, as well as the constant homosexual onslaught specifically in the shadows of the Vatican, such as is demonstrated by the debauchery of the homosexual celebrations in Rome 2000, and now again with this evil legislation, is a calculated international disparagement of religion, religious values and religion's leaders."

A comparatively minute counter-demonstration of homosexual marriage activists in a nearby piazza drew only a few hundred participants. Italy's Minister of International Trade and European Affairs, Emma Bonino, was in attendance, highlighting the government's efforts to push through pro-homosexual legislation.

Prime Minister Romano Prodi declared his intention to introduce civil union legislation at the outset of his leadership, but the proposal has become increasingly volatile in the country and has created sharp divides within his own party.

See blogspot commentary by Fr. Zuhlsdorf:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2007/05/private-v-public-values/

Logged

As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,854



« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2007, 12:01:45 AM »

Yeah, progress is slow, sometimes.  Kiss
Logged

"No man gives the same exegesis twice: for he is not the same man, and it is not the same text." - St. Heraclitus
Nacho
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: EasternOrthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,482

The face of Corporate America


« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2007, 12:13:04 AM »

You won't see this reported in the liberal media. Now if 1.7 million showed up to support homosexual unions, it would be headline news.
Logged

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2007, 01:27:03 AM »

Yeah, progress is slow, sometimes.  Kiss

Well, their objections will be ignored, the law will stay on the books, and progress will continue...it is inevitable, regardless of initial opposition. Those who fight against progress fight in vain.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,212


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2007, 03:14:39 AM »

Well, their objections will be ignored, the law will stay on the books, and progress will continue...it is inevitable, regardless of initial opposition. Those who fight against progress fight in vain.
This is progress?  Huh  Progress in digging our own graves, maybe.  Roll Eyes
Logged
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2007, 10:54:56 AM »

This is progress?  Huh  Progress in digging our own graves, maybe.  Roll Eyes

Anything that advances equal protection under the law is progress. Regardless of whether or not it is consonant with ones religious ideology; our society is based on post-enlightenment secular humanism, it's not a theocracy based on sharia law.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
observer
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 546

Vivre die Raznitsa!


« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2007, 02:06:24 PM »

Progress now means Communism.
Logged

Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)
authio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 369



« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2007, 02:08:32 PM »

Anything that advances equal protection under the law is progress. Regardless of whether or not it is consonant with ones religious ideology; our society is based on post-enlightenment secular humanism, it's not a theocracy based on sharia law.

You are too complicit with the world.

Progress now means Communism.

And I'm not so sure about that.
Logged

Christ is risen!
Cristo ha resucitado!
Христос Воскресе!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
 المسيح قام
AMM
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 2,076


« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2007, 02:34:39 PM »

The state is not an arbiter of morality.
Logged
Nacho
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: EasternOrthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,482

The face of Corporate America


« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2007, 02:42:29 PM »

Sign of the Times....?  Roll Eyes
Logged

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2007, 08:30:59 PM »

Progress now means Communism.

Is that what you call equal protection under the law? If we have redefined communism to mean that the law is indifferent to one's beliefs or opinions (yes, even about sexual matters, they're not that special, and the relevant beliefs of other people are certainly not your concern Roll Eyes), they yes, progress is communism. However, I have a feeling that this redefining of communism has only occured in your head.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
AMM
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 2,076


« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2007, 08:39:58 PM »

Homosexuality was outlawed in the Soviet Union.
Logged
StephenG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 229


« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 08:39:15 PM »

Yes, I don't think 'Golden Boys' were popular during the Soviet era.......

But I doubt those advancing civil unions agenda is truly about a supposed equality but a rather part of a much wider and far-reaching social engineering agenda. In time I suspect Churches and other religious bodies will be outlawed from refusing to ordain or promote to the highest ranks of their organisations active homosexuals - male and female - bisexuals and transsexuals. Any rubric or scriptural references unfavourable to homosexuality outlawed, etc. Bit by bit the agenda advances and as in Soviet times sincere 'usefull fools' (to use Soviet terminology) will applaud the embrace of this supposed equality. Except believers will find they and their beliefs will increasingly become less than equal.
Logged
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2007, 09:15:05 PM »

Yes, I don't think 'Golden Boys' were popular during the Soviet era.......

But I doubt those advancing civil unions agenda is truly about a supposed equality but a rather part of a much wider and far-reaching social engineering agenda. In time I suspect Churches and other religious bodies will be outlawed from refusing to ordain or promote to the highest ranks of their organisations active homosexuals - male and female - bisexuals and transsexuals. Any rubric or scriptural references unfavourable to homosexuality outlawed, etc. Bit by bit the agenda advances and as in Soviet times sincere 'usefull fools' (to use Soviet terminology) will applaud the embrace of this supposed equality. Except believers will find they and their beliefs will increasingly become less than equal.

Oh, how I love conspiracy theories. But, I do bore with them after a while as they are quite far fetched and have little basis in reality. Your scenario is not how things will play out. Rather society will become aware of the absurdity in the reactionary's position and will simply shun them. You will be able to practice your religion as you wish, in the empty Churches and Cathedrals that become but sepulchres of a Church that once was. This is not social engineering, this is social evolution. These egalitarian laws are not being passed because people want to engineer society, but rather are being passed because politician's constituency is demanding it, because there is grass roots society wide support. The reactionary minority just doesn't have the votes to push its agenda.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2007, 09:25:19 PM »

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables..."
Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2007, 10:02:37 PM »

I'm always worried when the people of any Church begin acting like a political party. The Church began in Europe in societies which condoned homosexuality, and orgies, and idolarty. Yet the Church still managed to flourish. And I don't recall reading about the early Christians holding mass rallies protesting the idolatry and sexual imorality in their societies.
The time of "Christian Society" is over. "Christendom" has ended, and the sooner we accept this, the better.
What the State does with Civil Unions has nothing to do with us. The only thing we can protest is if the State attempts to impose acceptance of Civil Unions on the Church. Say, for instance, a man who is civilly married to a woman cannot sue the Church for discrimination for denying him ordination. If the State attempted to support his claim of discrimination, then we would have something to protest about.
If, on the other hand, we attempt to use the State to impose the morality of the Church on people in our societies which are not in the Church, then we are the ones who are attempting social engineering.
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
StephenG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 229


« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2007, 06:58:32 PM »

Lots of things may bore me, GIC, including those who appear to forget both the Old and New Covenants held themselves apart from much around them that was unremarked in then society, this including sexual mores, priestesses and much else which are not new.

It is certainly the experience in the UK that the demand for homosexual rights does not come from some great public outcry but the constant agitating of lobby groups and the political and chattering classes. And no theories - I too abhor conspiracy theories. Agendas set by our own Gay Police Association among others make clear the insatiable demands being sort. It also true that first the Marxists sort the abolition of marriage as an oppressive institution and now others follow in achieving that goal, sadly.

As to empty churches, somehow I do not think so and unlike political parties it is not numbers but The Truth that is important. The Soviets tried so very hard with their scientific atheism and failed despite all the resources they threw at believers. So I fear not empty churches at all. Indeed a complete seperation from and dependency on financial help from public bodies may be as a gardener prunes unhealthy and diseased growth.
Logged
Nacho
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: EasternOrthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,482

The face of Corporate America


« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2007, 12:05:13 AM »

Quote
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables..."

We are seeing this played our before our very own eyes.....where is the Church? The Roman Church seems to be the beacon of light these days when it comes to standing against these society destroying plauges....

Quote
Lots of things may bore me, GIC, including those who appear to forget both the Old and New Covenants held themselves apart from much around them that was unremarked in then society, this including sexual mores, priestesses and much else which are not new.

It is certainly the experience in the UK that the demand for homosexual rights does not come from some great public outcry but the constant agitating of lobby groups and the political and chattering classes. And no theories - I too abhor conspiracy theories. Agendas set by our own Gay Police Association among others make clear the insatiable demands being sort. It also true that first the Marxists sort the abolition of marriage as an oppressive institution and now others follow in achieving that goal, sadly.

As to empty churches, somehow I do not think so and unlike political parties it is not numbers but The Truth that is important. The Soviets tried so very hard with their scientific atheism and failed despite all the resources they threw at believers. So I fear not empty churches at all. Indeed a complete seperation from and dependency on financial help from public bodies may be as a gardener prunes unhealthy and diseased growth.

These are great words of wisdom.
Logged

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2007, 12:23:50 AM »

We are seeing this played our before our very own eyes.....where is the Church? The Roman Church seems to be the beacon of light these days when it comes to standing against these society destroying plauges....

The Church could be more vocal, yes, but she's still light.  Quiet, perhaps--and small, all right--but we all know what one Pascha candle looks like in the total darkness.

And don't forget, the Roman Church's use of Liberation Theology is many times what's used to preach against oppression of the poor, feeding of the hungry, helping of the sick and forgotten...all commandments of the Lord, but a sick doctrine at its core...
Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
Tags: Christendom homosexuality Roman Empire debased 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.088 seconds with 45 queries.