Author Topic: Homeschool VS Public School  (Read 165889 times)

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #720 on: December 07, 2017, 08:59:48 PM »
What a very different country ours would be if the Steinerites were given charge of our kindergartens and preschools.
https://www.amazon.com/Atlantis-Lemuria-Rudolf-Steiner/dp/1589639049



Steiner was a lecturer on a thousand topics. He was the youngest and therefore last of a dying breed of theosophists, perennialists, neo-Vedantists, Rosicrucionists, and so on, that at one time made great livings speaking in Europe (and even California). But as he grew up, his interests spread to, as I said, a thousand other things, from medicine to religion to culture to education, and served as seeds of various movements. The Waldorf education system is based on his educational ideas and is a style of teaching children, particularly very young children, in a way that contrasted with the Prussian system and was meant to be natural and gentle. So you're conflating wildly here.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #721 on: December 07, 2017, 09:17:15 PM »
If you want to see something very strange, visit one of their in-house churches ("the Christian Community").

It's a Lutheran branch, begun by Lutheran priests who had some connection to Steiner. And they meet in church buildings of their own, except where they're too few.

The church I visited was in the center of a Waldorf campus. I was there because our friend (a Waldorf teacher) was getting married there. The Christian Community seems very intertwined with the Waldorf organization. Staff members aren’t required to join but it is seen as a natural consequence if you are serious about Steiner’s philosophy. As for their theology, yes, they were started by some Lutherans but their theology is definitely not Lutheran. They don’t claim to have a creed but everything they put out oozes with weird heresies.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #722 on: December 07, 2017, 09:44:08 PM »
If you want to see something very strange, visit one of their in-house churches ("the Christian Community").

It's a Lutheran branch, begun by Lutheran priests who had some connection to Steiner. And they meet in church buildings of their own, except where they're too few.

The church I visited was in the center of a Waldorf campus. I was there because our friend (a Waldorf teacher) was getting married there. The Christian Community seems very intertwined with the Waldorf organization. Staff members aren’t required to join but it is seen as a natural consequence if you are serious about Steiner’s philosophy. As for their theology, yes, they were started by some Lutherans but their theology is definitely not Lutheran. They don’t claim to have a creed but everything they put out oozes with weird heresies.

Yes, they've been non-credal from the start. Most of their pastors are going to be New Age, as that's really all Steiner's religious beliefs amounted to (even if he thought he was encouraging the "scientific" recovery of humanity's proto-religion to put at the service of Christianity). However, they do maintain the Christian liturgy, or they're supposed to. And again America isn't necessarily the best representation of the movement.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #723 on: December 07, 2017, 09:51:42 PM »
Let me be clear: I don't think Hr. Steiner was that great a thinker, altho I do appreciate that he was all sweetness and light at a time when the world was taking its darkest turn. The direction he sent his various disciples in eventuated in nothing very special. The Christian Community is New Age, theosophical medicine is basically homeopathy, eurythmy is not a very good school of modern dance, the farming communities went nowhere.

But those who took up the early-childhood education assignment came up with something very special. It has little enough to do with Steiner himself, beyond his encouragement -- they were simply women of deep attentiveness to what small children need to thrive. My daughters have benefited from their work enormously, in spite of going thru very troubling times at home. That's all I meant to say.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #724 on: December 07, 2017, 10:39:00 PM »
I will say, not all Evangelical Protestant home school groups/co-ops are like that
Challenge you to find one that isn't!

 ;D  I know it can get really bad.  But even if 98% of Evangelical homeschool groups/families did indeed end up in some sort of bizarre clique/cult situation, when meeting someone new from thus-and-such-group, it's my goal to keep in mind they could be part of the 2% and to offer the benefit of the doubt, if for no other reason than I'd appreciate the same charity.

In the group we belonged to, there were individuals and probably cliques that ran the gamut of things-Evangelical-homeschoolers-can-be, but there were also too many different denominational backgrounds present for the group as a whole to be any one thing.  However, the overarching Why We Homeschool and Why This Group Exists was certainly religious, specifically Protestant.  I quit for largely logistical reasons, but with little regret.



And for the record, I just brought up those approaches because they're more readily identified than some others.  The most I've ever heard about Waldorf is it's whimsical and gentle and play-based.  /shrug.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #725 on: December 08, 2017, 06:20:34 PM »
I will say, not all Evangelical Protestant home school groups/co-ops are like that
Challenge you to find one that isn't!

 ;D  I know it can get really bad.  But even if 98% of Evangelical homeschool groups/families did indeed end up in some sort of bizarre clique/cult situation, when meeting someone new from thus-and-such-group, it's my goal to keep in mind they could be part of the 2% and to offer the benefit of the doubt, if for no other reason than I'd appreciate the same charity.

In the group we belonged to, there were individuals and probably cliques that ran the gamut of things-Evangelical-homeschoolers-can-be, but there were also too many different denominational backgrounds present for the group as a whole to be any one thing.  However, the overarching Why We Homeschool and Why This Group Exists was certainly religious, specifically Protestant.  I quit for largely logistical reasons, but with little regret.



And for the record, I just brought up those approaches because they're more readily identified than some others.  The most I've ever heard about Waldorf is it's whimsical and gentle and play-based.  /shrug.

Themselves and their social dymanic aside, there remains the matter of what curricula they promote. I am not aware of any "conservative Christian" curriculum commonly promoted at this time that is not cultlike in what it teaches or even, usually, published by a cultlike group. It's not a good situation. The Christian homeschooling movement has been run aground on a very dark and disturbing intellectual shore, and this wasn't done accidentally but by the great effort over the last couple of decades of certain unscrupulous men.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 06:21:11 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Arachne

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #726 on: December 08, 2017, 07:25:52 PM »
I've used materials from SchoolExpress, to keep the young one busy during summer breaks, and I'm happy - but then it's not an explicitly Christian curriculum, and it's very obviously not comprehensive enough for full-time use. Great fun as a supplement, though.
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #727 on: December 08, 2017, 08:21:35 PM »
Themselves and their social dymanic aside, there remains the matter of what curricula they promote. I am not aware of any "conservative Christian" curriculum commonly promoted at this time that is not cultlike in what it teaches or even, usually, published by a cultlike group. It's not a good situation. The Christian homeschooling movement has been run aground on a very dark and disturbing intellectual shore, and this wasn't done accidentally but by the great effort over the last couple of decades of certain unscrupulous men.

This particular group had one enrichment co-op which was pretty open-ended.  "This semester we're learning about XYZ, make lesson plans for your class."  Pretty easy when your class is a bunch of 4-year-olds.  :D  I'm not as familiar with its academic counterpart, but it didn't seem to have a specific curriculum it was based around.  Through middle school, this was all on top of whatever any given family was doing at home.  It wasn't like Classical Conversations or Coram Deo where you base the week around their materials.  Some families got into those alongside this group, but those programs are their own entities.  I've never met an ATI family in person, that I'm aware of.  A Beka, Bob Jones, Rod & Staff, My Father's World, and Apologia for science seemed to be the most common picks for that group.  I know enough about ATI.  R&S is Mennonite, I think.  Otherwise, I have no clue what the publishers' backstories are.  And my knowledge of homeschool history is pretty spotty, honestly.   :-[
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 08:24:43 PM by Ainnir »
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #728 on: December 08, 2017, 08:35:33 PM »
I've used materials from SchoolExpress, to keep the young one busy during summer breaks, and I'm happy - but then it's not an explicitly Christian curriculum, and it's very obviously not comprehensive enough for full-time use. Great fun as a supplement, though.

That looks fun, thanks for posting the link!
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #729 on: December 09, 2017, 12:49:31 AM »
A Beka, Bob Jones, Rod & Staff, My Father's World, and Apologia for science seemed to be the most common picks for that group. 
Yikes.
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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #730 on: December 09, 2017, 05:04:52 AM »
I've used materials from SchoolExpress, to keep the young one busy during summer breaks, and I'm happy - but then it's not an explicitly Christian curriculum, and it's very obviously not comprehensive enough for full-time use. Great fun as a supplement, though.

That looks fun, thanks for posting the link!

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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #731 on: December 09, 2017, 12:12:15 PM »
A Beka, Bob Jones, Rod & Staff, My Father's World, and Apologia for science seemed to be the most common picks for that group. 
Yikes.

Wow after poking around at criticism, agreed--BJU and Abeka, particularly; I thought it was just the science issue.   :o 

And thanks, Arachne!  I may well do that.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #732 on: December 10, 2017, 05:17:33 PM »
R&S is Mennonite, I think.

Yeah I worked there for ten years. Messed up group, but their products have been extensively revised and improved, and a lot of the overt child abuse swept under the rug. Still wouldn't recommend them. I'm actually not aware of a home school curriculum from any source that I could recommend. Better to just pick your own books and find good math and science tutors in your area.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Agabus

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #733 on: Yesterday at 11:50:38 AM »
R&S is Mennonite, I think.

Yeah I worked there for ten years. Messed up group, but their products have been extensively revised and improved, and a lot of the overt child abuse swept under the rug. Still wouldn't recommend them. I'm actually not aware of a home school curriculum from any source that I could recommend. Better to just pick your own books and find good math and science tutors in your area.

We followed the Well Trained Mind school, and the only curriculum that I really liked was Story of the World.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #734 on: Yesterday at 12:47:49 PM »
R&S is Mennonite, I think.

Yeah I worked there for ten years. Messed up group, but their products have been extensively revised and improved, and a lot of the overt child abuse swept under the rug. Still wouldn't recommend them. I'm actually not aware of a home school curriculum from any source that I could recommend. Better to just pick your own books and find good math and science tutors in your area.

We followed the Well Trained Mind school, and the only curriculum that I really liked was Story of the World.

I'm not familiar with that series, but if you like it, I like it.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #735 on: Yesterday at 01:31:56 PM »
If you want to see something very strange, visit one of their in-house churches ("the Christian Community").

It's a Lutheran branch, begun by Lutheran priests who had some connection to Steiner. And they meet in church buildings of their own, except where they're too few.

The church I visited was in the center of a Waldorf campus. I was there because our friend (a Waldorf teacher) was getting married there. The Christian Community seems very intertwined with the Waldorf organization. Staff members aren’t required to join but it is seen as a natural consequence if you are serious about Steiner’s philosophy. As for their theology, yes, they were started by some Lutherans but their theology is definitely not Lutheran. They don’t claim to have a creed but everything they put out oozes with weird heresies.

Yes, they've been non-credal from the start. Most of their pastors are going to be New Age, as that's really all Steiner's religious beliefs amounted to (even if he thought he was encouraging the "scientific" recovery of humanity's proto-religion to put at the service of Christianity). However, they do maintain the Christian liturgy, or they're supposed to. And again America isn't necessarily the best representation of the movement.

The wedding I attended was presided by a young priest from Germany. He was dressed like a Lutheran pastor but the ceremony itself was not recognizable as a Christian wedding. The name of Christ wasn't mentioned once. I'm not sure if the Christian Community has a standard liturgy for this service but in any case it wasn't ad hoc. I mainly remember a goofy bit with two sticks being twined together.
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #736 on: Yesterday at 01:39:38 PM »
R&S is Mennonite, I think.

Yeah I worked there for ten years. Messed up group, but their products have been extensively revised and improved, and a lot of the overt child abuse swept under the rug. Still wouldn't recommend them. I'm actually not aware of a home school curriculum from any source that I could recommend. Better to just pick your own books and find good math and science tutors in your area.

We followed the Well Trained Mind school, and the only curriculum that I really liked was Story of the World.

I'm not familiar with that series, but if you like it, I like it.

It's a four-volume world history course for elementary students. Divided into ancient times, middle ages, early modern and modern periods. Engaging and non-sectarian. And it actually covers world history, not just Europe.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Quinault

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #737 on: Yesterday at 05:56:48 PM »
R&S is Mennonite, I think.

Yeah I worked there for ten years. Messed up group, but their products have been extensively revised and improved, and a lot of the overt child abuse swept under the rug. Still wouldn't recommend them. I'm actually not aware of a home school curriculum from any source that I could recommend. Better to just pick your own books and find good math and science tutors in your area.

We followed the Well Trained Mind school, and the only curriculum that I really liked was Story of the World.


We utilize Ambleside Online. I found SotW to be a bit too abbreviated for higher grade levels (like past 2-3rd). The author also wrote a history series for older grades, as well as some really quite good grammar books. I have looked at the grammar books, but I haven't ever seen the older level history texts.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:58:46 PM by Quinault »

Offline Quinault

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #738 on: Yesterday at 06:03:38 PM »
Homeschooling is one thing, evangelical protestant-style "homeschool co-ops" and the "classical private schools" they can eventually morph into are another.

I thought I found a good one recently after our move, but so far I'm unimpressed. I researched them a great deal, and although it is held Friday's at a church, they seemed to welcome non-Christians and the class selections wasn't entirely religiously based; they had art, lego, craft, languages, English, science, and such. It also had classes for toddler thru high school. I applied for membership in September, and paid the fee. I had to have references, and they called to say that I'd be interviewed for admission (I even went thru a criminal history background check). They cashed my check, and so far haven't called myself or my references. I suspect that they "welcome" non-Christians as a mission, and the fact that I am Orthodox is a big problem. :/
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 06:14:34 PM by Quinault »

Offline Agabus

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #739 on: Yesterday at 06:14:34 PM »
R&S is Mennonite, I think.

Yeah I worked there for ten years. Messed up group, but their products have been extensively revised and improved, and a lot of the overt child abuse swept under the rug. Still wouldn't recommend them. I'm actually not aware of a home school curriculum from any source that I could recommend. Better to just pick your own books and find good math and science tutors in your area.

We followed the Well Trained Mind school, and the only curriculum that I really liked was Story of the World.


We utilize Ambleside Online. I found SotW to be a bit too abbreviated for higher grade levels (like past 2-3rd). The author also wrote a history series for older grades, as well as some really quite good grammar books. I have looked at the grammar books, but I haven't ever seen the older level history texts.

I believe we have the grammar books, but I don't recall them being a notable break from, say, what I had in school. It's been a couple of years since I had reason to look at them, though.

Half of our goal was finding a curriculum that didn't try to sneak six-day creationism into every corner. No need to diagram "Piltdown Man was a hoax" when learning the parts of a sentence.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Quinault

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #740 on: Yesterday at 06:16:39 PM »
R&S is Mennonite, I think.

Yeah I worked there for ten years. Messed up group, but their products have been extensively revised and improved, and a lot of the overt child abuse swept under the rug. Still wouldn't recommend them. I'm actually not aware of a home school curriculum from any source that I could recommend. Better to just pick your own books and find good math and science tutors in your area.

We followed the Well Trained Mind school, and the only curriculum that I really liked was Story of the World.


We utilize Ambleside Online. I found SotW to be a bit too abbreviated for higher grade levels (like past 2-3rd). The author also wrote a history series for older grades, as well as some really quite good grammar books. I have looked at the grammar books, but I haven't ever seen the older level history texts.

I believe we have the grammar books, but I don't recall them being a notable break from, say, what I had in school. It's been a couple of years since I had reason to look at them, though.

Half of our goal was finding a curriculum that didn't try to sneak six-day creationism into every corner. No need to diagram "Piltdown Man was a hoax" when learning the parts of a sentence.

Was it the younger or older grammar books? The younger ones aren't all that impressive, the older ones are better. Although the Ordinary Parents Guide to Teaching Reading is my hands down favorite method of teaching kids to read. That book didn't touch anything approaching religion as I recall.

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #741 on: Yesterday at 06:20:19 PM »
Ambleside is definitely the best fit for us. For math I'm utilizing Teaching Textbooks, Life of Fred, and an online program called Dreambox learning. For Science we utilize a secular textbook company. I adapt our history/literature as we go to make sure it is as balanced as possible. Since it is a literature based curricula, that means I just find a book on a similar subject and replace it.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Homeschool VS Public School
« Reply #742 on: Yesterday at 09:02:48 PM »
R&S is Mennonite, I think.

Yeah I worked there for ten years. Messed up group, but their products have been extensively revised and improved, and a lot of the overt child abuse swept under the rug. Still wouldn't recommend them. I'm actually not aware of a home school curriculum from any source that I could recommend. Better to just pick your own books and find good math and science tutors in your area.

I went so far as to order samples from R&S once, but didn't follow through, for various reasons.  What you describe is generally called eclectic homeschooling, though it doesn't have to involve tutors.  I think most parents can help with math through Algebra with a bit of a refresher.  What I think is particularly difficult for homeschoolers is easy and safe access to good lab equipment and supplies.  That's when a co-op is super useful.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.