Author Topic: Just about 5 years to go now for beginning of Re-Union Council of Nicaea III?  (Read 458 times)

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Offline Xavier

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Some time ago, on Catholic Answers Forums, there was a discussion on the hoped-for Nicaea III Council in 2025, where the Catholic Church earnestly hopes all the Bishops and all the Patriarchs of all the Churches, Roman Catholic, Oriental Orthodox, Greek and Russian Orthodox, and all seriously interested in Christian Unity, would agree to meet together for discussion. Please see: https://forums.catholic.com/t/any-chance-for-nicaea-iii/545162

As we know and have discussed before right here on OC.net, the idea was conceived way back in 2014, and now the anticipated time draws closer and closer: "The exact nature of the planned meeting at Nicea (now Iznik, Turkey) is not known. But how could it be, over a decade in the future [i.e. back in 2014]? The ongoing Catholic-Orthodox dialogue will be intensified in preparation for the event." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/nicea-iii-2025

See also: "Pope, Orthodox Patriarch look to new meeting at Nicea ... The Council of Nicea, held in 325, brought together over 300 bishops and approved the formula of faith now known as the Nicene Creed." https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21561

So, dear Christian Brothers and Sisters, what do you all think? Are you keen on and prayerfully anticipating great things from this happy event? There are roughly, in my estimation, close to 6500 Bishops in all the world, Catholic and Orthodox put together. Wouldn't it be wonderful if all of them could meet! By way of comparison, there were 318 in Nicaea, 150 in Constantinople, 200 in Ephesus, 630 odd in Chalcedon etc etc etc. And as the Fathers used to say, if the Holy Spirit is promised even when a few Christians meet together, how much more is He surely guaranteed to come in His Powerful Presence when all the Bishops of the Church meet together?! Thoughts on all of this from the good folk here on OC.NET?

Lord Bless.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 01:14:07 PM by Xavier »
"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with your most precious Blood and your sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the intention of your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Pray the Rosary every day to obtain Peace for the world"

Offline Vanhyo

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Elder Ephraim of Katounakia tells us what ecumenism truly is

Offline Xavier

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Hi Vanhyo. There is Doctrinal Ecumenism and then there is Liberal (Indifferentist - i.e. Disregarding Doctrinal Truth) Ecumenism. I agree that Liberal Ecumenism is often evil; but I disagree that Doctrinal Ecumenism is evil. I believe it is good and necessary. But of course even in Doctrinal Ecumenism, there must very much be, in my opinion, that spirit of Christian Fraternity that charitably and genuinely wants to help the other and seeks only the common good and mutual benefit of the spiritual advancement of all. Thus, when everyone involved in ecumenical discussions, comes away loving Jesus and Mary more, and loving God and neighbor in general more, the Union of all Christians grows closer imo. Not an easy ideal of course.

Would you disagree with that? I guess we could call the correct view, as Charitable Doctrinal Ecumenism (CDE) imo. Your thoughts on this Holy Office declaration on the Ecumenical Movement: "Now in many parts of the world, as a result of various external events and changes of views on the part of people, but especially in consequence of the common prayers of-the faithful through the grace of the Holy Spirit, there has grown constantly in the minds of many persons separated from the Catholic Church the desire for a return to unity on the part of all who believe in the Lord Christ. To the children of the Church this is surely a cause of true and holy joy in the Lord, and at the same time an invitation to help all those who sincerely seek the truth, by earnest prayer to God imploring for them the grace of light and strength ...

In order that so noble a work as the "Union" of all Christians in one true faith and Church may daily grow into a more conspicuous part of the entire care of souls, and that the whole Catholic people may more earnestly implore this "Union" from Almighty God, it will certainly be of assistance that in some appropriate way, for example through Pastoral Letters, the faithful be instructed regarding these questions and projects, the prescriptions of the Church in the matter, and the reasons on which they are based."

Taken from: https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/on-the-ecumenical-movement-2070 Given at Rome, the Holy Office, Dec 1949.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 03:22:05 PM by Xavier »
"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with your most precious Blood and your sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the intention of your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Pray the Rosary every day to obtain Peace for the world"

Offline Vanhyo

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Christ came to bring division, those united to Him will by necessity be divided from the fallen world and its falsehoods.

This here is from latest adventures of pope francis's world, do you really think we are eager to unite with the vatican and its pachamama worshiping clergyman who also have the reputation of abusing minors all over the globe ?

Offline Xavier

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Our Lord Jesus also prayed, in His High Priestly Prayer in Gospel of St. John Chapter 17, that all who believed in Him as Lord may become One, so that the world also may confess that He is the Saviour of the world, Whom God the Father has sent for the Love of us all.

"Dear Orthodox Christians: A word from our hearts to yours — if we wish Christianity to successfully combat and entirely overcome the new paganism of the culture of death, of abortionism, contraception, divorce, pornography, and other forms of immorality and lawlessness, if we hope for the worldwide Church to receive more conversions from paganism and baptize more individuals into Christ and the Triune God, and make them members of the Church, the time to reunite is now and quickly ...

May all Christians of East and West no longer be divided along sectarian lines and national or other denominations, but become One in the Universal or Catholic Church. And this so that, as the Scripture says, the whole world may believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord, and has been sent by the Father for the salvation of us all. “That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me” (Jn 17:21)." From: https://onepeterfive.com/filioque-separated-east/

In today's secularist world, where so many attack the Gospel, promote abortion, and in other ways undermine Christianity, and moral Truth, there is an increasing urgency for all Christians to stand as One contra secularism.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 03:53:25 PM by Xavier »
"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with your most precious Blood and your sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the intention of your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Pray the Rosary every day to obtain Peace for the world"

Offline SolEX01

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At this pace, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, Archbishop Elpidoforos, Archbishop Ieronymos, Patriarch Theodoros, and Metropolitan Epiphany (or their replacements) will be the only Orthodox representatives at this so-called "fake" council.

I bet nothing happened in 1725, 1825 & 1925 at the 1400th, 1500th, and 1600th anniversaries of the Council of Nicaea.  Why the big deal about the upcoming 1700th anniversary?   ???  If Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew joins with the Catholics, either I'll stop attending church or I'll worship in another Orthodox jurisdiction.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 07:01:51 PM by SolEX01 »

Offline Fr. George

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1. It's not going to happen.

2. Has anyone here (besides me) been to Nicea/Iznik?  They'd have to be in tents if they wanted more than a couple hundred people to meet.  I'd be shocked if more than 25,000 lived in the city itself - having something "Nicea-like" but scaled to the modern day would require the presence of more than 1,000 hierarchs and easily 2-3 advisors each. 

3. That many Christian people going through Turkish customs would give them a fit.  I see the prison population doubling overnight.
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, & godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope & glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed & purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.  Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. (Titus 2:11-15)

Offline Xavier

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Quote from: Rev. Father George
2. Has anyone here (besides me) been to Nicea/Iznik?  They'd have to be in tents if they wanted more than a couple hundred people to meet.  I'd be shocked if more than 25,000 lived in the city itself - having something "Nicea-like" but scaled to the modern day would require the presence of more than 1,000 hierarchs and easily 2-3 advisors each.

Reverend Father, thanks for the response.

No doubt many logistical difficulties would come into play. I hadn't really thought of that, and thanks for mentioning it. Do you know, Father, if in the First Council of Nicaea, beside the 318 Fathers, if there were many advisors also, for each of the Bishops?

My view is getting the Bishops together alone would be a grand accomplishment! And I would love if all of the Bishops could come. But supposing only 1/10th, for e.g. of the Bishops come in person, with each group of around 10 Bishops in a common geographical region nominating one Bishop to go in the name of them all, and as representing them all, and the Church in that area, then it could happen.

I understand many are skeptical. But isn't it worth trying. It would be a nice means to promote Christian Unity before the world's eyes. My personal opinion, from observing Catholic Bishops - who often travel to meet each other - is the very fact of regularly meeting and at least fraternally talking to each other, makes it easier for all of us to appreciate and desire to remain in the communion of each other.

I don't mean to deny, of course, that between the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church there still are certain doctrinal differences. But do we not all believe, as a matter of Faith, that if all the Bishops convened together in Council, the Holy Spirit's Presence would be there?

Wouldn't it be great to hear to hear from Their Excellencies what the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life, has to say to all of us today! It could be really amazing imho.

God Bless, Father.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 09:49:10 AM by Xavier »
"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with your most precious Blood and your sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the intention of your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Pray the Rosary every day to obtain Peace for the world"

Offline Fr. George

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No doubt many logistical difficulties would come into play. I hadn't really thought of that, and thanks for mentioning it.

If the right kind of reunion happened - true, guided by the Spirit, with proper alignment of teaching and practice (etc.), then may it be blessed.  But sometimes ideas that are more sentimental than practical get thrown out there, and it's good to get some cold water thrown on us to wake us up.

Do you know, Father, if in the First Council of Nicaea, beside the 318 Fathers, if there were many advisors also, for each of the Bishops?

I don't think every bishop had advisors come (some, like St. Spyridon, were of modest means and came from smaller diocese), but we do know of some cases where they did (the most famous example being St. Athanasios of Alexandria, who was still but a Deacon at the time).

But isn't it worth trying.

Fellowship isn't in short supply via the ecumenical movements.  An endeavor like what is proposed here is only meaningful if there is a movement for the right kind of unity - not one of "live and let live," but "let us be aligned according to the witness of the Gospel and the Church." 

{From the Orthodox POV that would involve the Roman Catholic hierarchy coming mostly our way (with the Orthodox likely only making behavioral adaptations to the best parts of the West's example - i.e. less free with granting divorces of convenience, greater presence of Orthodox charitable efforts, stiffer spine on abortion, etc.).}
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, & godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope & glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed & purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.  Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. (Titus 2:11-15)

Offline recent convert

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I fear any reunion in the current climate would be false & destructive to Orthodox & Catholic Christians and the next phase would be an alleged love fest with the World Council of “churches”. Despite our differences, we should be able to discern that there is salvation within our traditional communions. If the RCC goes into free fall, then the Orthodox Church, I would think, would need to prioritize welcoming Christian (spiritual) refugees from the RCC ( pray for a miracle there).
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