Author Topic: I am simply christian  (Read 3009 times)

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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #90 on: April 06, 2019, 06:24:05 AM »
I change my mind I am judging many people. I know they can’t handle being judged by orthodoxy and I believe God accepts all sincere believers.  I am more persuaded God would be more pleased with me to follow this path then judge other Christians. I accept orthodox Christians but those are less stumbling blocks I think who don’t judge
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 06:24:56 AM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #91 on: April 06, 2019, 12:24:40 PM »
Make sure you are perfected first before judging others.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #92 on: April 06, 2019, 11:32:17 PM »
Thanks so are you agreeing that I should not judge. Do you mean before I judge orthodox as stumbling blocks I should have proof for my beliefs first or I am a stumbling block as well if I judge orthodox

How do I get perfected do you mean I should take the sacraments and struggle so it enlightens me more to the truth but I thought the church already judges Protestants in the same category as unbelievers in terms of salvation. But I may have hope still the early church accepted them so I should still have the sacraments with the hope the early church accepted those who are righteous who are not reached with orthodoxy God telling them He wants them to be. But God may only wish to reach people through us  who seek who stay in the church and have the sacraments so I may have the sacraments if it will help me know for sure salvation is only in the church or to trust God about individually all outside whether some are saved or not until then as sacraments may not change my outlook I will assume others are saved. I think it is fine to believe the church fathers maybe did not judge them for it does not seem clear and many orthodox admit they do not know for sure. I do not mean those who may have lumped them the same as unbelievers in terms of salvation like those who teach universal salvation for there were many fathers in 1st century who taught about Hell and how can they get it wrong if they may have known the apostles.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 11:34:44 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline recent convert

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #93 on: April 07, 2019, 03:21:46 AM »
I think on a personal level that if I am saved, I will see plenty of those who were Catholic, Protestant, or non Christians in their earthly life in paradise awaiting the resurrection.
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #94 on: April 07, 2019, 10:38:56 AM »
Thankyou for sharing your view but there is no other way to salvation but by Jesus who is the door
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 10:47:42 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #95 on: April 07, 2019, 11:04:43 AM »
Paul says that to be saved it is enough for someone to respond to "the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness..." (Rom. 2:15-16)

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #96 on: April 07, 2019, 11:18:51 AM »
He says that with regards to non Christians who never heard the gospel. Those who refuse to hear the gospel their conscience bears witness that they are not willing to respond to the demands such as Jesus saying whoever does not acknowledge Me before men I will not acknowledge Him before the Father
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 11:20:49 AM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #97 on: April 07, 2019, 04:04:51 PM »
He says that with regards to non Christians who never heard the gospel. Those who refuse to hear the gospel their conscience bears witness that they are not willing to respond to the demands such as Jesus saying whoever does not acknowledge Me before men I will not acknowledge Him before the Father
I think your embrace of Protestant tendency is problematic. I guess it is the Calvinist tendency you are being affected by & it introduces a false legalism that intrudes into the sovereignty of God ( Romans 9:14-18). Ultimately it is God who says He will save those who have done good & condemn those who did not (John 5:24-30).
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #98 on: April 07, 2019, 04:45:07 PM »
That has been the church teaching from the beginning.It is not Calvinistic it is Christian teaching. You must believe in Christ and take up your cross. He who gains his life will lose it. Jesus said I have not come to bring peace on earth but division. Whoever loves father mother wife or children more than Me is not worthy of Me. You have to make a choice therefore to confess Him



« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 04:54:33 PM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #99 on: April 07, 2019, 05:38:15 PM »
That has been the church teaching from the beginning.It is not Calvinistic it is Christian teaching. You must believe in Christ and take up your cross. He who gains his life will lose it. Jesus said I have not come to bring peace on earth but division. Whoever loves father mother wife or children more than Me is not worthy of Me. You have to make a choice therefore to confess Him
These are the words of the Lord that convict us personally but I do not know how many of us are qualified to preach outwardly beyond our priesthood. St. Paul said that we are to repent, turn to God, & do works worthy of repentance ( Acts 26:19-20). The Lord  said that those who love Him will keep His commandments (John 14:15-17). This is what the Lord told the rich young man man in Matthew 19:16-19 who became presumptuous in saying he “kept” the commandments  ( Matthew 19:20). This is what St. Paul reiterates in Romans 13:8-10. St. Peter also failed to take up the Lord’s Cross originally too but later did of course.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 05:40:36 PM by recent convert »
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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #100 on: April 07, 2019, 05:42:42 PM »
Thanks so are you agreeing that I should not judge. Do you mean before I judge orthodox as stumbling blocks I should have proof for my beliefs first or I am a stumbling block as well if I judge orthodox

How do I get perfected do you mean I should take the sacraments and struggle so it enlightens me more to the truth but I thought the church already judges Protestants in the same category as unbelievers in terms of salvation. But I may have hope still the early church accepted them so I should still have the sacraments with the hope the early church accepted those who are righteous who are not reached with orthodoxy God telling them He wants them to be. But God may only wish to reach people through us  who seek who stay in the church and have the sacraments so I may have the sacraments if it will help me know for sure salvation is only in the church or to trust God about individually all outside whether some are saved or not until then as sacraments may not change my outlook I will assume others are saved. I think it is fine to believe the church fathers maybe did not judge them for it does not seem clear and many orthodox admit they do not know for sure. I do not mean those who may have lumped them the same as unbelievers in terms of salvation like those who teach universal salvation for there were many fathers in 1st century who taught about Hell and how can they get it wrong if they may have known the apostles.
Just being a part of an organization like orthodoxy doesn't mean one is instantly saved. Just like passing a permit test doesn't mean one can drive. The church gives one the tools to hone in there skills in real life praxis. We are judged in adversity and our way of living.  If we have time to judge other we aren't focusing enough on ourselves.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 05:43:57 PM by Tzimis »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2019, 01:26:49 AM »
That has been the church teaching from the beginning.It is not Calvinistic it is Christian teaching. You must believe in Christ and take up your cross. He who gains his life will lose it. Jesus said I have not come to bring peace on earth but division. Whoever loves father mother wife or children more than Me is not worthy of Me. You have to make a choice therefore to confess Him
These are the words of the Lord that convict us personally but I do not know how many of us are qualified to preach outwardly beyond our priesthood. St. Paul said that we are to repent, turn to God, & do works worthy of repentance ( Acts 26:19-20). The Lord  said that those who love Him will keep His commandments (John 14:15-17). This is what the Lord told the rich young man man in Matthew 19:16-19 who became presumptuous in saying he “kept” the commandments  ( Matthew 19:20). This is what St. Paul reiterates in Romans 13:8-10. St. Peter also failed to take up the Lord’s Cross originally too but later did of course.

What did Jesus say in regard to those who try to enter the kingdom by the law and not following Jesus ? It is impossible with men except they follow Him as He says those who left people for the sake of the kingdom inherit eternal life

23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”
28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

Jesus explains Christians can’t expect to enter heaven by avoiding a cross by not following Him and being called Christians Christ followers

Matthew 16:21-26
21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
Take Up the Cross and Follow Him
(Mark 8:34–38; Luke 9:23–26)
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?


Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #102 on: April 08, 2019, 01:29:47 AM »
Thanks so are you agreeing that I should not judge. Do you mean before I judge orthodox as stumbling blocks I should have proof for my beliefs first or I am a stumbling block as well if I judge orthodox

How do I get perfected do you mean I should take the sacraments and struggle so it enlightens me more to the truth but I thought the church already judges Protestants in the same category as unbelievers in terms of salvation. But I may have hope still the early church accepted them so I should still have the sacraments with the hope the early church accepted those who are righteous who are not reached with orthodoxy God telling them He wants them to be. But God may only wish to reach people through us  who seek who stay in the church and have the sacraments so I may have the sacraments if it will help me know for sure salvation is only in the church or to trust God about individually all outside whether some are saved or not until then as sacraments may not change my outlook I will assume others are saved. I think it is fine to believe the church fathers maybe did not judge them for it does not seem clear and many orthodox admit they do not know for sure. I do not mean those who may have lumped them the same as unbelievers in terms of salvation like those who teach universal salvation for there were many fathers in 1st century who taught about Hell and how can they get it wrong if they may have known the apostles.
Just being a part of an organization like orthodoxy doesn't mean one is instantly saved. Just like passing a permit test doesn't mean one can drive. The church gives one the tools to hone in there skills in real life praxis. We are judged in adversity and our way of living.  If we have time to judge other we aren't focusing enough on ourselves.

You are right but Jesus said to judge with righteous judgement but you should not judge all matters for you may have a plank in your eye and you can’t help others
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 01:34:50 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #103 on: April 08, 2019, 01:56:03 AM »
Jesus explains who will go to heaven those hired as workers to preach the kingdom of God in the parable straight after the story of the rich man in which all hired left behind people and things to follow Him
Which non Christian preaches salvation through Jesus who left behind people ?

Luke 9:60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.”

Luke 14:33 says unless a man forsake all that he has he cannot be My disciple
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 01:57:35 AM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #104 on: April 08, 2019, 10:37:35 AM »
I understand what the Lord says about taking up the Cross and these are what I understand as working out our salvation with fear & trembling ( Philippians 2:12). The Lord first gave the commandment for us to love one another ( John 13:31-35). Simon Peter initially said he would lay down his life for the Lord but originally failed ( John 13:36-38). I do not know who among us is qualified to preach to another on this beyond our clergy ( Ezekiel 3:16-27, John 20:19-23).
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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #105 on: April 08, 2019, 05:13:43 PM »
Thanks so are you agreeing that I should not judge. Do you mean before I judge orthodox as stumbling blocks I should have proof for my beliefs first or I am a stumbling block as well if I judge orthodox

How do I get perfected do you mean I should take the sacraments and struggle so it enlightens me more to the truth but I thought the church already judges Protestants in the same category as unbelievers in terms of salvation. But I may have hope still the early church accepted them so I should still have the sacraments with the hope the early church accepted those who are righteous who are not reached with orthodoxy God telling them He wants them to be. But God may only wish to reach people through us  who seek who stay in the church and have the sacraments so I may have the sacraments if it will help me know for sure salvation is only in the church or to trust God about individually all outside whether some are saved or not until then as sacraments may not change my outlook I will assume others are saved. I think it is fine to believe the church fathers maybe did not judge them for it does not seem clear and many orthodox admit they do not know for sure. I do not mean those who may have lumped them the same as unbelievers in terms of salvation like those who teach universal salvation for there were many fathers in 1st century who taught about Hell and how can they get it wrong if they may have known the apostles.
Just being a part of an organization like orthodoxy doesn't mean one is instantly saved. Just like passing a permit test doesn't mean one can drive. The church gives one the tools to hone in there skills in real life praxis. We are judged in adversity and our way of living.  If we have time to judge other we aren't focusing enough on ourselves.

You are right but Jesus said to judge with righteous judgement but you should not judge all matters for you may have a plank in your eye and you can’t help others
You're mixing two verses into one. Christ said that to the pharisees because they accused him of doing miracles on the sabbath. 
He said don't look at the saw dust in someones eye. Look at the plank in your own eye.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #106 on: April 09, 2019, 07:19:53 AM »
I understand what the Lord says about taking up the Cross and these are what I understand as working out our salvation with fear & trembling ( Philippians 2:12). The Lord first gave the commandment for us to love one another ( John 13:31-35). Simon Peter initially said he would lay down his life for the Lord but originally failed ( John 13:36-38). I do not know who among us is qualified to preach to another on this beyond our clergy ( Ezekiel 3:16-27, John 20:19-23).


Jesus said do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul fear Him who is able to destroy body and soul in Hell. And hide not but preach on the housetop. However Jesus said not to cast your pearls before dogs and swine lest they trample them under their feet and turn and tear you in pieces. Does this mean just don’t force your religion on others or in countries where there is no freedom of religion you should keep your beliefs to yourself but practice the commandments.
I think if they ask you must not deny but if you are alive to come back if you deny you will still be accepted if you later confess.

I don’t know the details but that just means I am lacking knowledge not that it is left to clergy

If a clergy tells us then we know to preach.
Clergy is not before Jesus but received knowledge from scripture just as we can though the clergy may be more experienced. When Paul said they have a gift given by laying on of hands of the elders hip in Protestant tradition this is also done when the church sees one person has a gift for teaching they annoint him for this reason by saying he has a gift they declare it is his gift and they thereby gave him this position of teaching which is therefore giving him the gift

This brings me to my next important point on why the church fathers should not trouble the faith of Protestants
Jesus said call no one on earth your teacher
This means God intended church fathers as just interpreters of the law and they don’t come before Jesus and have no right to judge only Jesus can. I am not aware for sure they judged but if they did
Jesus said the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses seat whatever they tell you to observe( meaning what is truly of God) observe. Likewise he meant for all teachers he says to consider them only brethren. Likely the church had signs before so the church fathers taught communion though I am not aware they judged others as not saved without it but if they did it may be because those sects knew the church was from God as Jesus said these signs will follow those who believe so up to the 4th century they had signs yet they used to attack the apostles like the Gnostics who denied communion so as to blaspheme the signs the apostles made making themselves have false signs so they blasphemed the Spirit . The scripture would come before the church fathers and   should guide our church to accept Protestants now atleast before the end of the world where the church would have signs again where God would let people know they have to join the church. Normally such preaching would be a fair preaching not judging those before like the apostles said God overlooked those times but not commands everyone everywhere to repent
The Spirit is always able to guide the church to the truth but it depends on the church cooperating. God may have allowed the splits though not His will but because of corruption and  decided to save people even during the splits. Because even if a church has signs God wanted a pure church and if the church leaders are corrupt who have power to withhold righteous people from position there is no room for the pure to do any works for God.




Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #107 on: April 09, 2019, 07:40:22 AM »
Thanks so are you agreeing that I should not judge. Do you mean before I judge orthodox as stumbling blocks I should have proof for my beliefs first or I am a stumbling block as well if I judge orthodox

How do I get perfected do you mean I should take the sacraments and struggle so it enlightens me more to the truth but I thought the church already judges Protestants in the same category as unbelievers in terms of salvation. But I may have hope still the early church accepted them so I should still have the sacraments with the hope the early church accepted those who are righteous who are not reached with orthodoxy God telling them He wants them to be. But God may only wish to reach people through us  who seek who stay in the church and have the sacraments so I may have the sacraments if it will help me know for sure salvation is only in the church or to trust God about individually all outside whether some are saved or not until then as sacraments may not change my outlook I will assume others are saved. I think it is fine to believe the church fathers maybe did not judge them for it does not seem clear and many orthodox admit they do not know for sure. I do not mean those who may have lumped them the same as unbelievers in terms of salvation like those who teach universal salvation for there were many fathers in 1st century who taught about Hell and how can they get it wrong if they may have known the apostles.
Just being a part of an organization like orthodoxy doesn't mean one is instantly saved. Just like passing a permit test doesn't mean one can drive. The church gives one the tools to hone in there skills in real life praxis. We are judged in adversity and our way of living.  If we have time to judge other we aren't focusing enough on ourselves.

You are right but Jesus said to judge with righteous judgement but you should not judge all matters for you may have a plank in your eye and you can’t help others
You're mixing two verses into one. Christ said that to the pharisees because they accused him of doing miracles on the sabbath. 
He said don't look at the saw dust in someones eye. Look at the plank in your own eye.

I knew it was used in another context but it is still valid.  That is things you can know. I meant we should be able to know  what the Lord required at the very least from our reading of the bible but aware of ones limitations of maybe going too far from what the Lord intended if there is scriptural support to have a more moderate and more fair position. Not being too judgemental but also seeing what truths can not be put aside if they make the core of the bible
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 07:53:45 AM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #108 on: April 09, 2019, 08:19:45 AM »
Thanks so are you agreeing that I should not judge. Do you mean before I judge orthodox as stumbling blocks I should have proof for my beliefs first or I am a stumbling block as well if I judge orthodox

How do I get perfected do you mean I should take the sacraments and struggle so it enlightens me more to the truth but I thought the church already judges Protestants in the same category as unbelievers in terms of salvation. But I may have hope still the early church accepted them so I should still have the sacraments with the hope the early church accepted those who are righteous who are not reached with orthodoxy God telling them He wants them to be. But God may only wish to reach people through us  who seek who stay in the church and have the sacraments so I may have the sacraments if it will help me know for sure salvation is only in the church or to trust God about individually all outside whether some are saved or not until then as sacraments may not change my outlook I will assume others are saved. I think it is fine to believe the church fathers maybe did not judge them for it does not seem clear and many orthodox admit they do not know for sure. I do not mean those who may have lumped them the same as unbelievers in terms of salvation like those who teach universal salvation for there were many fathers in 1st century who taught about Hell and how can they get it wrong if they may have known the apostles.
Just being a part of an organization like orthodoxy doesn't mean one is instantly saved. Just like passing a permit test doesn't mean one can drive. The church gives one the tools to hone in there skills in real life praxis. We are judged in adversity and our way of living.  If we have time to judge other we aren't focusing enough on ourselves.

You are right but Jesus said to judge with righteous judgement but you should not judge all matters for you may have a plank in your eye and you can’t help others
You're mixing two verses into one. Christ said that to the pharisees because they accused him of doing miracles on the sabbath. 
He said don't look at the saw dust in someones eye. Look at the plank in your own eye.

I knew it was used in another context but it is still valid.  That is things you can know. I meant we should be able to know  what the Lord required at the very least from our reading of the bible but aware of ones limitations of maybe going too far from what the Lord intended if there is scriptural support to have a more moderate and more fair position. Not being too judgemental but also seeing what truths can not be put aside if they make the core of the bible

A lot of these sayings are related to thy self. Very few people have the clairvoyance to read whats on others hearts.

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #109 on: April 09, 2019, 10:04:23 AM »
I am trying to understand what you are saying overall re Protestants (maybe I am misunderstanding also). It seems to me that sometimes you wonder if they have salvation or actually endorsing their theology as valid as Orthodoxy. I stated that I believe that many (not all) are Christians & can be saved , do not assume my own salvation, but we as Orthodox must guard ourselves from their conflicting, often incorrect, & sometimes heretical theologies.
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #110 on: April 09, 2019, 10:20:08 PM »
I am trying to understand what you are saying overall re Protestants (maybe I am misunderstanding also). It seems to me that sometimes you wonder if they have salvation or actually endorsing their theology as valid as Orthodoxy. I stated that I believe that many (not all) are Christians & can be saved , do not assume my own salvation, but we as Orthodox must guard ourselves from their conflicting, often incorrect, & sometimes heretical theologies.


Thankyou for trying to help me understand your views but I disagree about some things.I talk about Protestants that don’t have very problematic heretical doctrines. I don’t agree that believing one must believe and follow Christ is heretical. Jesus said there is a cost in following Him

Jesus taught clearly that you can’t seek to preserve your life by avoiding confession of faith. Jesus said he has not come to bring peace but a sword. He has come to set a son against father daughter against mother etc.



Luke 9:23-26
Take Up the Cross and Follow Him
23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or
lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.


Matthew 10:27-42
27 “Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in [h]hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Confess Christ Before Men
32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

Christ Brings Division
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set[j] a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

A Cup of Cold Water
40 “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. 41 He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42 And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.”
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 10:30:53 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #111 on: April 09, 2019, 10:34:20 PM »
I am not open to being convinced to change my views but I am open to discuss and defend my views for I feel I would be guiding others away from the gospel

Offline recent convert

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #112 on: April 10, 2019, 06:56:02 AM »
I am trying to understand what you are saying overall re Protestants (maybe I am misunderstanding also). It seems to me that sometimes you wonder if they have salvation or actually endorsing their theology as valid as Orthodoxy. I stated that I believe that many (not all) are Christians & can be saved , do not assume my own salvation, but we as Orthodox must guard ourselves from their conflicting, often incorrect, & sometimes heretical theologies.


Thankyou for trying to help me understand your views but I disagree about some things.I talk about Protestants that don’t have very problematic heretical doctrines. I don’t agree that believing one must believe and follow Christ is heretical. Jesus said there is a cost in following Him

Jesus taught clearly that you can’t seek to preserve your life by avoiding confession of faith. Jesus said he has not come to bring peace but a sword. He has come to set a son against father daughter against mother etc.



Luke 9:23-26
Take Up the Cross and Follow Him
23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or
lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.


Matthew 10:27-42
27 “Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in [h]hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Confess Christ Before Men
32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

Christ Brings Division
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set[j] a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

A Cup of Cold Water
40 “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. 41 He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42 And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.”

Sure, I mean C.S. Lewis’ expression of faith is usually Orthodox but Shelby Spong is probably not even Christian.Billy Graham is to be respected although we must discern the variables while certain televangelist types should be avoided. Most of what you are saying should be understood within our daily living out of faith with alms giving, prayer, & fasting ( Matthew 6:1-18) which is the Orthodox way deal with life as we live it as best we can.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 07:02:12 AM by recent convert »
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #113 on: April 13, 2019, 06:34:31 AM »
Perhaps you are right but you may be wrong. Only God knows if it is ok to deny Christ even if one person only asks you who you think but do not know may be dangerous only God knows if it is ok if you eventually confess Christ. Jesus said to be wise as serpents but He did say He sends us as sheep amidst wolves. He said if they persecute you in one city flee to another. So you need not preach perhaps if the city persecutes you but still only God knows if you can deny Him all the time not being ready at one point to risk dying for the faith. If there is a true risk maybe it is acceptable but only God knows as far as I know maybe someone else who knows the bible better may know you could be right but it may be only God knows

Anyway if God wants you to witness or prove your love for Him God will let them persecute you. If you don’t convert and find other Christians you may be less ready to be persecuted if you don’t trust in Christ strongly

But which church father of the 1st century supports your position or even up to the 4th century. I say first century as they were in contact with the apostles.
What if they live in western countries where you are protected by law if they want to harm you if you become Christian
Which church fathers of 1st century say such people don’t have to get baptised or have communion ? I am going to hope Protestants are saved that I am missing something and it seems likely God won’t condemn all Christians who are part of a branch of Christianity just because they are not apostolic who also make it easier and practical for all nations to join Christianity
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 06:41:21 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #114 on: April 13, 2019, 07:16:00 AM »
This atleast shows in some instances (or you must eventually confess) you must not deny your faith to preserve your life infact you should preach maybe it means if the place is not very antichristian already but it may not be an excuse. It is to preach to the poor if there are people who want to hear the gospel or need a Christian example to practically show you can live it out if there is hope of revival there. But Jesus said count the cost lest you are not able to follow through it is better to temporarily not mention your faith even if asked perhaps. Though he said do not fear it does not mean not fear if you still are afraid and have not grown perhaps though maybe they too will be supported by Christ if they are not casting their pearls before swine.  They may be if they are puffed up and Christ means don’t be afraid if they start the persecution and asking you to deny your faith

Matthew 10:27-42
27 “Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in [h]hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Confess Christ Before Men
32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 07:29:16 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #115 on: April 13, 2019, 07:30:05 AM »
You should only preach if you truly are not afraid and God truly expects you to
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 07:31:43 AM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #116 on: April 13, 2019, 08:21:00 AM »
I think you should preach in spite of your fears. Our fears are a human emotion that can keep us from doing God's work. If the Spirit prompts a man and his fear is in the way, that man must overcome his fear and preach what the Spirit is directing him.
"While we fight about words, take advantage of ambiguities, criticize authors, fight on party questions, have difficulty in agreeing, and prepare to anathematize each other, there is scarce a man who belongs to Christ." - Hilary of Poitiers (367)

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #117 on: April 13, 2019, 09:25:35 AM »
Maybe you are right
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 09:36:24 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #118 on: April 13, 2019, 09:40:05 AM »
I think you are right a sparrow falls not to the ground apart from His will so neither can we suffer anything that He does not allow

Just I think some may not think they are ready to preach now but they may be ready but they should only do so if they will benefit the people Jesus said not to cast your pearls before swine. One need only be a Christian not to preach if in a place where no one will benefit.
They should overcome their fear preach inspite of fear if one has faith in Christ if there are people who will benefit to listen
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 09:46:31 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #119 on: April 17, 2019, 03:58:43 AM »
I decided to submit to what the church fathers taught but we don’t know if it all applies today if it does I submit as far as I don’t know better. Therefore I accept salvation may be only in the church if it applies today until I know better.

My dad tells me don’t tell him about church fathers just tell him about something from the bible Jesus said. He doesn’t want me converting him to church fathers he said I shouldn’t try to convert others to the church they all know everything let everyone make his own decision and choose their own destination it is not my business to convert them

He doesn’t believe you need confession to follow Jesus and that is creating laws not from God you need only to follow the Lord

What do you think does God want me trying to preach orthodoxy to my father and others
His reaction makes me think I won’t be able to preach orthodoxy without offending people

I said I am hopeless to my dad because of making people feel they are judged if they don’t join orthodoxy I said I must have affected someone negatively my dad says everyone has a brain I am not responsible for anyone

I hope I don’t stumble others I simply don’t know how to prove those outside now are saved I believe they are accepted but I would prefer the church finds out or teaches the truth they are saved and I hope to know better later. Because I can not prove I must submit to all we can know of church fathers and not hold my position certainly
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 04:06:49 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #120 on: April 17, 2019, 04:30:18 AM »
How to follow Jesus commandments to love all if I don’t accept some Christians beliefs as acceptable . I suppose where I don’t know they are not saved as in Christians I can preach orthodoxy as maybe the only way but I don’t know so just preach the truth. Or maybe I should not preach orthodoxy except to those who are not sure of their churches and are open. I don’t want to cause those who may convert to be offensive to other Christians in their family

I still feel we are stumbling blocks or we may need to know Protestants are Christian or we are not actually loving our neighbor it seems but it may be ok but we are stumbling blocks but I don’t know
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 04:41:43 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #121 on: April 17, 2019, 10:43:50 AM »
I do believe Protestants are probably saved God probably wouldn’t judge them just for not joining the church not thinking to make divisions but I thought to preach orthodoxy if they are not sure they can have a spiritual life outside the sacraments where they can learn repentance and to have trials to prove their love for Him and to overcome them with the sacraments. But maybe they can walk the narrow path and have spiritual life outside. I just thought If I preach orthodoxy then I will discover Protestants are saved I didn’t mean to stumble Protestants I meant to strengthen their faith.
I know you are supposed to have the sacraments but I am going to go back to a moderate position and choose to trust Protestants are saved even if they would find life now as orthodox
I believe they are saved in world to come which they may or may not lose a reward depending on if they can only bear fruit in church to witness though maybe Protestants bear the fruit to witness but without being nourished of the Eucharist their fruit dies to not actually save them upon death.
In orthodoxy there is no purgatory and for catholics possibly there is none for those who did not repent. But the key is for those who do not repent there is no purgatory we pray for the dead from the church definitely as those who can benefit so I believe they also will be saved in world to come
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 10:47:36 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Eamonomae

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #122 on: April 17, 2019, 01:39:52 PM »
Mike, I will just say this clearly - stop it. You've already posted three thread-pages worth of your unsolvable dilemma.

Look, it's an absolute dogma that God desires all men to be saved. Saint Paul says it in the Bible. It's also a dogma that God will judge the world in perfect justice.

So I advise you to stop trying to put God into a box and just know that God will do whatever is just and wants people to be saved. Trust Him. If Christ didn't want to save as many people as He can, He wouldn't have died for all of humanity in the most grueling and humiliating way possible.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 01:40:20 PM by Eamonomae »
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I am simply christian
« Reply #123 on: April 17, 2019, 07:52:52 PM »
Okay thanks I will stop it. I am content to trust Him