Author Topic: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)  (Read 579 times)

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Offline Svetlana

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Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« on: November 08, 2018, 05:04:07 PM »
Hello EO's --

Here I am several years later.  I am still being jerked around by Russian bishops, who are not convinced that I really did want to return to my Baptism, to my native spiritual roots, etc.

This has turned into a kind of Russian Spanish Inquisition.  They do not realize the pain they already put me through.  Unnecessarily they punished me, as you can see in all my previous posts from 2015.  The worst of it was, what I later realized, must have been an anathema pronounced on me.  I felt I had been gutted out of my Baptism.  They must have actually pronounced condemnation on it.  This is very much against the Canons of the Eastern Orthodox Church, for instance, the Russian Trebnik, which states that baptized Orthodox returning after being in other Christian faiths, need only Confess.  Anathemas were lifted between the EO and OO's in 1987.

I also hear of blatant re-Baptisms done in the Russian Church = completely against the practices of the Church.

Also, I wish to address any of you who might know or remember the 2015 thread entitled: "When was the last time someone was anathematized?" -- in which there were some important statements on this subject.  I was reading through this thread very recently, and came upon a comment :  " ROCOR has been non-canonical since 1983."   Just as I was trying recently to reply to the old thread -- it disappeared !

(I wonder if any of you know what happened in 1983 that made Rocor 'non-canonical'?  Also, I would appreciate the chance to re-access the 2015 thread, simply to read through the comments I didn't get the chance to finish reading, before these threads disappeared from the posts . . . Who can help me in this?)

In any case, the above comment of ROCOR being non-canonical has confirmed for me many things that I have been experiencing in the Russian Church, since my return to it in 2016 :  =  segmented 'start-stop' parts of the journey, I would make it back only so far, then obstacles would start again.  A Serbian bishop told me that perhaps this is the way for me.  But such phenomena aside, simply nasty things such as entire small parishes deciding to shun me, not accept me or allow me to participate in normal parish activities, etc., a junior bishop ignoring my requests to talk, but addressing any other person's request immediately, etc., even rushing me through Confession, because he didn't have time for me, other people were waiting, etc. 

This is ridiculous.  //.  There IS no prodigal son story.  (one of you made this comment to me in 2015).

The other thing I wish to share is that:  the effects of ANATHEMA pronounced on me produced continual inner torture of my soul for an entire year, which felt like a true eternal hell.  I did not deserve this.  The only way out was to find a priest who would undo the curse.

Now, after the latest round of bishop harassment, I have reached the point of no longer being able to relate to clergy -- period.
I love the services, the icons, singing, all that one can take in, without needing to go through a priest for individual needs.  But I cannot do more.  And by now I have complained enough that they have probably 'behind the scenes' - excommunicated me again.  I am not approaching any of them to find out.  And I stay away from oil-anointing at All-Night-Vigil -- which is how I got the Anathema onto my forehead . . .

I don't know what to do anymore.

{In addition, some of you offered links during the 2015-16 discussion, which I should have been more diligent in following up on, for the beneficial information kindly offered.  These would have been either in the thread "Return to Orthodoxy"  or  "When was the last time someone was anathematized?"  2015-2016.  I'd like to access those links as well.} 

Any thoughts on this ?  reality check confirmations, similar experiences, ? ? ?  I'll take whatever can help here.

 Thank you.

-- Svetlana


Offline Iconodule

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2018, 05:17:19 PM »
Hi Svetlana... Could you clarify exactly what the problem is? Are the ROCOR clergy actually refusing to admit you to communion?
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2018, 05:50:26 PM »
I think you are hounted by paranoia and conspiracies which dont exist, stop believing in this and overcome your problems with positive thinking, tolerence and humility.

Nobody casts anathema on you, you are imagening ghosts, it is also possible that the demons are suggesting you these negative thoughts in order to derail you.

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2018, 05:58:06 PM »
Can you find another parish?
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Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2018, 12:02:32 AM »
Hi Svetlana... Could you clarify exactly what the problem is? Are the ROCOR clergy actually refusing to admit you to communion?

One of their junior bishops, who seemed to be glad for my return, suddenly turned on me when I turned my head away from a newly ordained jr. bishop whom he mentored . . ., who was the one who excommunicated me.  I had, in the meantime, been restored back to the Church by Serbians, and the Russians had to accept this as equivalent.  Then suddenly, two years later, because I turned my head away from this inexperienced new bishop, who didn't know me at all, or my family or history, but simply acted with minimum knowledge of my situation, in the most extreme way -- and his word was accepted.  I had no way to protect myself, and had to go outside the one Church administration and seek help from another.

The mentor bishop then tried to force me to go back to the horrible new jr. bishop to be "properly restored", that it was not enough to be restored by the Serbs.   This, of course, is ridiculous.  I refused, of course, and the conflicts only became more deep-seated.


Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2018, 12:04:05 AM »
Can you find another parish?

ROCOR is tightly knit.  Whatever any clergy says is quickly rubber-stamped by the entire diocese, which is all of Western United States . . .

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2018, 01:19:47 AM »
So Bishop Theodosius of Seattle and Bishop Irenei of Sacramento?

What do you mean by "turned your head away"?
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2018, 03:31:57 AM »
Hi Svetlana... Could you clarify exactly what the problem is? Are the ROCOR clergy actually refusing to admit you to communion?

One of their junior bishops, who seemed to be glad for my return, suddenly turned on me when I turned my head away from a newly ordained jr. bishop whom he mentored . . ., who was the one who excommunicated me.  I had, in the meantime, been restored back to the Church by Serbians, and the Russians had to accept this as equivalent.  Then suddenly, two years later, because I turned my head away from this inexperienced new bishop, who didn't know me at all, or my family or history, but simply acted with minimum knowledge of my situation, in the most extreme way -- and his word was accepted.  I had no way to protect myself, and had to go outside the one Church administration and seek help from another.

The mentor bishop then tried to force me to go back to the horrible new jr. bishop to be "properly restored", that it was not enough to be restored by the Serbs.   This, of course, is ridiculous.  I refused, of course, and the conflicts only became more deep-seated.
but why you dont want to be in good terms with that bishop ?

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2018, 05:03:31 AM »
Can you find another parish?

ROCOR is tightly knit.  Whatever any clergy says is quickly rubber-stamped by the entire diocese, which is all of Western United States . . .

Do you absolutely need ROCOR? Why not just stay with the Serbians?

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2018, 06:04:43 AM »
(I wonder if any of you know what happened in 1983 that made Rocor 'non-canonical'?  Also, I would appreciate the chance to re-access the 2015 thread, simply to read through the comments I didn't get the chance to finish reading, before these threads disappeared from the posts . . . Who can help me in this?)

Nothing has disappeared. http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,64702.0

You can also find links to old threads through your post history.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2018, 10:41:58 AM »
Hi Svetlana... Could you clarify exactly what the problem is? Are the ROCOR clergy actually refusing to admit you to communion?

One of their junior bishops, who seemed to be glad for my return, suddenly turned on me when I turned my head away from a newly ordained jr. bishop whom he mentored . . ., who was the one who excommunicated me.  I had, in the meantime, been restored back to the Church by Serbians, and the Russians had to accept this as equivalent.  Then suddenly, two years later, because I turned my head away from this inexperienced new bishop, who didn't know me at all, or my family or history, but simply acted with minimum knowledge of my situation, in the most extreme way -- and his word was accepted.  I had no way to protect myself, and had to go outside the one Church administration and seek help from another.

The mentor bishop then tried to force me to go back to the horrible new jr. bishop to be "properly restored", that it was not enough to be restored by the Serbs.   This, of course, is ridiculous.  I refused, of course, and the conflicts only became more deep-seated.

I'm still not clear what's happening here. Are they refusing you communion? What exactly are they asking you to do?

Why not just go to the Serbian parish that received you, or another non-ROCOR Orthodox parish?
Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2018, 04:36:13 PM »
I think you are hounted by paranoia and conspiracies which dont exist, stop believing in this and overcome your problems with positive thinking, tolerence and humility.

Nobody casts anathema on you, you are imagening ghosts, it is also possible that the demons are suggesting you these negative thoughts in order to derail you.

11/9/18

My response to the Bulgarian :   You are new to this discussion, since you were not there in 2015-2016.  Further, you are not a priest, thus, you do not have authority to respond.
Further, even without looking at your profile, I could see by your words that you are "old country mentality".   --

For the information of all Americans who read my posts :   There do exist texts in all the priests' books, with words that pronounce Anathema and words that pronounce 'proklinanie' = a priest's curse on a specific individual.   This is what a particularly onerous priest did to me in the ROCOR Church.
I found out, after suffering in 2016 for a whole year from it, that it was important to go to another priest -- in another jurisdiction, who would be unaffected by the politics of the other administration, and who would understand the situation and be willing to do the prayer of 'undoing' the 'proklinanie' curse.  So, I went to the OCA, and on the eve of Holy Wednesday of Passion Week, he read the prayer out loud, in front of the entire parish, that would release me from the curse of the other priest. 

Since that time, the soul tortures stopped.  But the human hurt has stayed, because the priest who did it to me was someone I grew up with and knew since my teenhood as a good friend.   Needless to say, the betrayal has unspeakably and forever broken our relationship.  He did it to please the existing politics, and I suffered, in fact, from a political excommunication, which I did not deserve.  Since this was the first time I experienced this, it affected me fundamentally.  But all the jerkings- around I have experienced since 2016 and recently this year, when the huffy jr. bishop mentor refused me Communion on my birthday on Peter & Paul -- because I turned my head away from the newly ordained bishop (who, together with my teenage friend-become-priest) derailed the entire restoration process . . .   It is the evil that in our day has penetrated the churches.   So, I don't pay attention anymore to these mini- (or maxi- ) excommunications.  God sees and knows all that they are doing, and knows my heart, as well as my hurt.   It may be best to continue 'catacombly'.

As to the Bulgarian:  I ask that you take back your judgmental words, and let you look, rather, to your own upbringing.  This discussion is ended.

Svetlana

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2018, 04:39:18 PM »
Hi Svetlana... Could you clarify exactly what the problem is? Are the ROCOR clergy actually refusing to admit you to communion?

One of their junior bishops, who seemed to be glad for my return, suddenly turned on me when I turned my head away from a newly ordained jr. bishop whom he mentored . . ., who was the one who excommunicated me.  I had, in the meantime, been restored back to the Church by Serbians, and the Russians had to accept this as equivalent.  Then suddenly, two years later, because I turned my head away from this inexperienced new bishop, who didn't know me at all, or my family or history, but simply acted with minimum knowledge of my situation, in the most extreme way -- and his word was accepted.  I had no way to protect myself, and had to go outside the one Church administration and seek help from another.

The mentor bishop then tried to force me to go back to the horrible new jr. bishop to be "properly restored", that it was not enough to be restored by the Serbs.   This, of course, is ridiculous.  I refused, of course, and the conflicts only became more deep-seated.

I'm still not clear what's happening here. Are they refusing you communion? What exactly are they asking you to do?

Why not just go to the Serbian parish that received you, or another non-ROCOR Orthodox parish?

--
11/9/18

Yes, you are logical in you thinking.  The Serbian parish is closely connected with ROCOR and their priest teaches in their Russian school.  Anytime I have asked the Serbian Church for protection, their response has always been "hands-off".   ROCOR is tightly interconnected and all of them cover each others' backs.  I have no protection there at all.

Were you in the 2015-16 discussion ?

-- Svetlana

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2018, 04:41:16 PM »
Hi Svetlana... Could you clarify exactly what the problem is? Are the ROCOR clergy actually refusing to admit you to communion?

One of their junior bishops, who seemed to be glad for my return, suddenly turned on me when I turned my head away from a newly ordained jr. bishop whom he mentored . . ., who was the one who excommunicated me.  I had, in the meantime, been restored back to the Church by Serbians, and the Russians had to accept this as equivalent.  Then suddenly, two years later, because I turned my head away from this inexperienced new bishop, who didn't know me at all, or my family or history, but simply acted with minimum knowledge of my situation, in the most extreme way -- and his word was accepted.  I had no way to protect myself, and had to go outside the one Church administration and seek help from another.

The mentor bishop then tried to force me to go back to the horrible new jr. bishop to be "properly restored", that it was not enough to be restored by the Serbs.   This, of course, is ridiculous.  I refused, of course, and the conflicts only became more deep-seated.
but why you dont want to be in good terms with that bishop ?

He is the one who excommunicated me.

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2018, 04:42:17 PM »
Can you find another parish?

ROCOR is tightly knit.  Whatever any clergy says is quickly rubber-stamped by the entire diocese, which is all of Western United States . . .

Do you absolutely need ROCOR? Why not just stay with the Serbians?

Serbians are "hands-off" on this now.

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2018, 04:44:15 PM »
Can you find another parish?

ROCOR is tightly knit.  Whatever any clergy says is quickly rubber-stamped by the entire diocese, which is all of Western United States . . .

Do you absolutely need ROCOR? Why not just stay with the Serbians?

You are right that I don't absolutely need ROCOR.  It is the place where I was baptized and spent certain portions of my youth, and where many of them knew my family, now previous generations deceased.  I tried several times to return to my spiritual origins and family roots, but it isn't working.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2018, 04:44:38 PM »

Yes, you are logical in you thinking.  The Serbian parish is closely connected with ROCOR and their priest teaches in their Russian school.  Anytime I have asked the Serbian Church for protection, their response has always been "hands-off".   ROCOR is tightly interconnected and all of them cover each others' backs.  I have no protection there at all.

Antioch? OCA? EP?

And what do you need protection from? As I asked before, are they refusing you communion? What do they expect of you?
Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2018, 04:46:10 PM »
Hi Svetlana... Could you clarify exactly what the problem is? Are the ROCOR clergy actually refusing to admit you to communion?

One of their junior bishops, who seemed to be glad for my return, suddenly turned on me when I turned my head away from a newly ordained jr. bishop whom he mentored . . ., who was the one who excommunicated me.  I had, in the meantime, been restored back to the Church by Serbians, and the Russians had to accept this as equivalent.  Then suddenly, two years later, because I turned my head away from this inexperienced new bishop, who didn't know me at all, or my family or history, but simply acted with minimum knowledge of my situation, in the most extreme way -- and his word was accepted.  I had no way to protect myself, and had to go outside the one Church administration and seek help from another.

The mentor bishop then tried to force me to go back to the horrible new jr. bishop to be "properly restored", that it was not enough to be restored by the Serbs.   This, of course, is ridiculous.  I refused, of course, and the conflicts only became more deep-seated.

I'm still not clear what's happening here. Are they refusing you communion? What exactly are they asking you to do?

Seattle bishop refused me Communion on my birthday in July, Peter & Paul's feast, because I turned my head away, wouldn't greet the convert bishop who had excommunicated me in 2013.

Why not just go to the Serbian parish that received you, or another non-ROCOR Orthodox parish?

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2018, 04:47:24 PM »

Yes, you are logical in you thinking.  The Serbian parish is closely connected with ROCOR and their priest teaches in their Russian school.  Anytime I have asked the Serbian Church for protection, their response has always been "hands-off".   ROCOR is tightly interconnected and all of them cover each others' backs.  I have no protection there at all.

Antioch? OCA? EP?


And what do you need protection from? As I asked before, are they refusing you communion? What do they expect of you?

--
Seattle bishop refused me Communion on my birthday in July, Peter & Paul's feast, because I turned my head away, wouldn't greet the convert bishop who had excommunicated me in 2013.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2018, 04:52:26 PM »
And you think the Serbian jurisdiction will continue to refuse you communion? What about another jurisdiction?
Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2018, 05:01:14 PM »
And you think the Serbian jurisdiction will continue to refuse you communion? What about another jurisdiction?

--
Serbians are not refusing, simply "hands-off" = they won't deal with it.

I don't wish to do what all others are forced to do = hop around churches and jurisdictions.
I simply wanted to come home.  But it is no longer home.  Sad for me.

--
Are you native or convert ?  "Patriarchate" of Johnstown -- what is that ?

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2018, 05:03:48 PM »
And you think the Serbian jurisdiction will continue to refuse you communion? What about another jurisdiction?

--
Serbians are not refusing, simply "hands-off" = they won't deal with it.

What is there to deal with? If you attend a parish and commune there, what more do you need? Are you trying to get the other bishop punished?

Quote
Are you native or convert ?  "Patriarchate" of Johnstown -- what is that ?

Convert. I belong to ACROD. "Patriarchate of Johnstown" is a joke.
Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2018, 05:46:17 PM »
And you think the Serbian jurisdiction will continue to refuse you communion? What about another jurisdiction?

--
Serbians are not refusing, simply "hands-off" = they won't deal with it.

What is there to deal with? If you attend a parish and commune there, what more do you need? Are you trying to get the other bishop punished?


Quote
Are you native or convert ?  "Patriarchate" of Johnstown -- what is that ?

Convert. I belong to ACROD. "Patriarchate of Johnstown" is a joke.
There is a Johnstown. In Greece. No joking

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2018, 05:52:04 PM »
And you think the Serbian jurisdiction will continue to refuse you communion? What about another jurisdiction?

--
Serbians are not refusing, simply "hands-off" = they won't deal with it.

I don't wish to do what all others are forced to do = hop around churches and jurisdictions.
I simply wanted to come home.  But it is no longer home.  Sad for me.

--
Are you native or convert ?  "Patriarchate" of Johnstown -- what is that ?
I sympathize with you. Its best to straighten out your current situations within your jurisdiction. 
If your bishop has given you a penance.  Just stomach it until its over. Than return to communion.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 05:52:30 PM by Tzimis »

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2018, 06:44:33 PM »
And you think the Serbian jurisdiction will continue to refuse you communion? What about another jurisdiction?

--
Serbians are not refusing, simply "hands-off" = they won't deal with it.

What is there to deal with? If you attend a parish and commune there, what more do you need? Are you trying to get the other bishop punished?

Quote
Are you native or convert ?  "Patriarchate" of Johnstown -- what is that ?

Convert. I belong to ACROD. "Patriarchate of Johnstown" is a joke.

--

I don't know ACROD.  As far as attending services, yes, it is possible for me to attend services at any parish.  However, I am not accessing Sacraments.

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2018, 07:08:18 PM »
And you think the Serbian jurisdiction will continue to refuse you communion? What about another jurisdiction?

--
Serbians are not refusing, simply "hands-off" = they won't deal with it.

I don't wish to do what all others are forced to do = hop around churches and jurisdictions.
I simply wanted to come home.  But it is no longer home.  Sad for me.

--
Are you native or convert ?  "Patriarchate" of Johnstown -- what is that ?
I sympathize with you. Its best to straighten out your current situations within your jurisdiction. 
If your bishop has given you a penance.  Just stomach it until its over. Than return to communion.
--
Thank you, Tzimis, for your input.  Yes, I agree with you that it is important to straighten things out with the place itself.
I wish I could feel it as a normal place with normal people.
As far as penance, I don't know what it is. 

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2018, 07:10:28 PM »
So Bishop Theodosius of Seattle and Bishop Irenei of Sacramento?

What do you mean by "turned your head away"?
--

Irenei is now bishop of Richmond (UK) and Western Europe.

I refused to greet him as he walked into a small chapel I was attending.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2018, 07:41:56 PM »
Why can’t you take communion? You seem to be rather evasive as to exactly what the obstacle is. I don’t know what else anyone can say if you won’t actually name the problem.
Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2018, 08:02:28 PM »
You are right that I don't absolutely need ROCOR.  It is the place where I was baptized and spent certain portions of my youth, and where many of them knew my family, now previous generations deceased.  I tried several times to return to my spiritual origins and family roots, but it isn't working.

I am sorry for all you are going through. May Christ grant you comfort.

ROCOR now isn't what it was in our youth. As I wrote in another post, the ROCOR parish of my hometown was taken over by newly religious people from the former USSR, and the old people of their parish didn't feel at home anymore due to the fanatic attitude of the newcomers. This led to a split, with the "old people" going to Rue Daru.


Offline Tzimis

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2018, 09:04:49 PM »
And you think the Serbian jurisdiction will continue to refuse you communion? What about another jurisdiction?

--
Serbians are not refusing, simply "hands-off" = they won't deal with it.

I don't wish to do what all others are forced to do = hop around churches and jurisdictions.
I simply wanted to come home.  But it is no longer home.  Sad for me.

--
Are you native or convert ?  "Patriarchate" of Johnstown -- what is that ?
I sympathize with you. Its best to straighten out your current situations within your jurisdiction. 
If your bishop has given you a penance.  Just stomach it until its over. Than return to communion.
--
Thank you, Tzimis, for your input.  Yes, I agree with you that it is important to straighten things out with the place itself.
I wish I could feel it as a normal place with normal people.
As far as penance, I don't know what it is.
Penance is a direction or initiative recieved from your confessor.  Did he give you specific instruction to not communion?

Offline hecma925

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2018, 09:35:46 PM »
Why can’t you take communion? You seem to be rather evasive as to exactly what the obstacle is. I don’t know what else anyone can say if you won’t actually name the problem.

+1
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2018, 01:57:00 AM »
Why can’t you take communion? You seem to be rather evasive as to exactly what the obstacle is. I don’t know what else anyone can say if you won’t actually name the problem.

I refer you both to 2015-16 discussion thread:  "Return to Orthodoxy"

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2018, 02:07:18 AM »
You are right that I don't absolutely need ROCOR.  It is the place where I was baptized and spent certain portions of my youth, and where many of them knew my family, now previous generations deceased.  I tried several times to return to my spiritual origins and family roots, but it isn't working.

I am sorry for all you are going through. May Christ grant you comfort.

ROCOR now isn't what it was in our youth. As I wrote in another post, the ROCOR parish of my hometown was taken over by newly religious people from the former USSR, and the old people of their parish didn't feel at home anymore due to the fanatic attitude of the newcomers. This led to a split, with the "old people" going to Rue Daru.

--

11/9/18

Thank you very much, Goradze, for your input.  This is probably the most helpful insight of all for me.   I also feel the same, that ROCOR is no longer what is was in our youth.  Those who are knew, or of younger generations, or like me, who have been away and need to remember substance to fill in fragmental memories or incomplete information -- have a job cut out for us, to have a correct understanding of what the Russian ORthodox Church Abroad was and wanted to be.

Interesting that you bring up this aspect.  As you may know, ROCOR is now planning its 100th anniversary celebration, which will be held in November-December 2020.
The November celebration will be in Serbia.  Perhaps you can get there easily from Paris.  Tonight in California the ROCOR Chicago bishop gave a talk on the history of ROCOR.  This gave clarity on many things that I didn't know about, and helps me understand both the way things actually were, as well as the perceptions of clergy of what they wanted it to be or how it should be seen.  Many layers to this.  Anyway, I take every such opportunity to learn the historical background, ask questions on the attitudes and why they are there, etc.  This helps me to not take things too personally in my experiences with them.    I suppose I will always value the beauty of the services.  However, I know better now than to say too much in Confession or to trust priests.

Thank you again for sharing.  By the way, I spent 8 years in Paris and was in Rue Daru only once.  It impressed me as more European-Russian style, and the crowds were like sardines . . .

Offline hecma925

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2018, 02:20:16 AM »
Why can’t you take communion? You seem to be rather evasive as to exactly what the obstacle is. I don’t know what else anyone can say if you won’t actually name the problem.

I refer you both to 2015-16 discussion thread:  "Return to Orthodoxy"

Yes, you were vague then, too.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2018, 04:10:24 AM »
Quote
Seattle bishop refused me Communion on my birthday in July, Peter & Paul's feast, because I turned my head away, wouldn't greet the convert bishop who had excommunicated me in 2013.
Svetlana, this is serius, you need to be able to forgive this person and get in good terms with him, even if he excommunicated you unjustly, it is your christian duty to get on good terms with him. I know it is difficult, ask him for forgiveness, even if you are not going to rocor anymore.

You will feel much much better if you do this.

Online Gorazd

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Re: Return to Orthodoxy -- Part II (since 2015 thread)
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2018, 04:23:02 AM »
The November celebration will be in Serbia.  Perhaps you can get there easily from Paris.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I currently live in Switzerland. The parish I was speaking about is located in Stuttgart, Germany. With going to Rue Daru, I meant the formation of a parish under the Rue Daru diocese: Archdiocese of Orthodox Churches in Russian Tradition in Western Europe, under the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople - its cathedral is St. Alexander Nevsky, better known for its address: Rue Daru, Paris.

Serbia is indeed not that far from me, but I don't think I would be going to the ROCOR celebration if I can't take communion for being under the EP.


By the way, I spent 8 years in Paris and was in Rue Daru only once.  It impressed me as more European-Russian style, and the crowds were like sardines . . .
Should be somewhat less crowded after Moscow broke communion. I learnt from a friend in Paris that some of the more recent immigrants to France obeyed the Minsk synod and stopped attending the Rue Daru cathedral.

Actually, the cathedral building has a Church Slavonic service in the main church, and another church downstairs where services are held in French. If you ever go to Paris again, the place is worth a visit.