Author Topic: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?  (Read 568 times)

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Offline Alpha60

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Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« on: November 07, 2018, 07:46:15 PM »
https://orthodoxyindialogue.com/2018/09/24/sexuality-gender-open-letter-to-the-assembly-of-canonical-orthodox-bishops-of-the-united-states-of-america/

I was dismayed to note the only cleric who signed that rather blasphemous letter identified as a “Syrian Orthodox” from Kerala.  I have a sinking dread he works for the Jacobite church, which is the Indian part of the Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch which received me into Orthodox.  But even if he is a member of, say, Thoyizoor, it is still shocking; I never thought I would see an OO clergyman affix their signature to a document like this.  It would also be even worse if he works for the MOSC, because that jurisdiction under the Catholicos of the East tends to consistently outperform the Jacobites and my own Patriarchate when it comes to the quality of their scholarship, liturgical publications and so on, which is why I think it is so stupid that we are still in a state of schism with them.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 08:17:49 PM »
So this was addressed to the Episcopal Assembly?
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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 08:57:34 PM »
Sickening!

Offline Father Peter

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2018, 04:31:41 AM »
Orthodoxy in Dialogue is not Orthodox at all.

It is noticeable that their Open Letter references no aspects of Orthodoxy.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2018, 04:38:38 AM »
Orthodoxy in Dialogue is not Orthodox at all.

It is noticeable that their Open Letter references no aspects of Orthodoxy.

Indeed so.  It is completely perverse.  Thus, I really want to know which “Syrian Orthodox Church” this Deacon Basil Paul works for.  Because if it emerged he works for, say, the Mar Thoma Syrian Church or the Church of South India, that would be worth pointing out to someone, and if he works for a bona fide Orthodox church, his bishop ought to be alerted that he has a rogue deacon who seems set on emulating Nicolas rather than St. Stephen or St. Ephrem.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2018, 04:50:50 AM »
Sickening!

Indeed, it’s pukalicious, and it grinds my gears the sole clergyman they got to affix his name to that ostensibly works for my church, or at the very least, the church I was received into (right now, for reasons of logistics I am going to an ROCOR parish, but there is a small Syriac Orthodox church I intend to check out, and there is also a Romanian parish with very good music which I discovered is slightly closer to my house; as a rule, because I reject the validity of the EO-OO schism, I will float freely between EO and OO parishes based on traffic conditions and seasonal factors including the quality of heating and airconditioning systems)  ;)

I generally identify the most with the Syriac Orthodox church however, which is why I find this so particularly pernicious.  It is also extremely awkward because unfortunately AFAIK Fr. Andrew S. Damick is not quite as liberal with regards to the EO-OO split as I am; he wrote a brilliant rebuttal of this argument on his blog, but its a huge embarassment from my perspective for him to see that, and I very much hope he doesn’t think this kind of thought is routine in Oriental Orthodoxy.  Usually, we tend to be the most conservative.  This Deacon Basil Paul is literally the first OO person I have encountered to express views of this sort.

It occurs to me he might not be Syriac Orthodox at all, but a member of one of the large number of episcopi vagante groups derived from illict ordinations performed by Rene Vilatte, or from Jules Ferrette. 
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Agabus

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 10:36:11 AM »
It's weird how Orthodox people think sending open letters to hierarchs accomplishes anything.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 10:39:37 AM »
I never thought I would see an OO clergyman affix their signature to a document like this. 

Gender ideology strikes again!
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2018, 11:14:53 AM »
I never thought I would see an OO clergyman affix their signature to a document like this. 

Gender ideology strikes again!

Next thing you know, Alpha is going to be talking about clergx.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Take a breath, read Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2018, 07:45:12 PM »
I never thought I would see an OO clergyman affix their signature to a document like this. 

Gender ideology strikes again!

Oh snap.

I never thought I would see an OO clergyman affix their signature to a document like this. 

Gender ideology strikes again!

Next thing you know, Alpha is going to be talking about clergx.

Indeed.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2018, 09:10:27 PM »
quote ]

Indeed so.  It is completely perverse.  Thus, I really want to know which “Syrian Orthodox Church” this Deacon Basil Paul works for.  Because if it emerged he works for, say, the Mar Thoma Syrian Church or the Church of South India, that would be worth pointing out to someone, and if he works for a bona fide Orthodox church, his bishop ought to be alerted that he has a rogue deacon who seems set on emulating Nicolas rather than St. Stephen or St. Ephrem.


Do you really think a bishop would respond to a letter from a complete stranger?  If you are that concerned about Deacon Basil Paul why don't you do an internet search for him & contact him directly with your concerns.  There is a person called Deacon Basil Paul from India who is on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/people/Deacon-Basil-Biju-Paul/100011718446324
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 09:14:07 PM by IreneOlinyk »

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2018, 12:24:44 PM »
quote ]

Indeed so.  It is completely perverse.  Thus, I really want to know which “Syrian Orthodox Church” this Deacon Basil Paul works for.  Because if it emerged he works for, say, the Mar Thoma Syrian Church or the Church of South India, that would be worth pointing out to someone, and if he works for a bona fide Orthodox church, his bishop ought to be alerted that he has a rogue deacon who seems set on emulating Nicolas rather than St. Stephen or St. Ephrem.


Do you really think a bishop would respond to a letter from a complete stranger?  If you are that concerned about Deacon Basil Paul why don't you do an internet search for him & contact him directly with your concerns.  There is a person called Deacon Basil Paul from India who is on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/people/Deacon-Basil-Biju-Paul/100011718446324

That guy might not be the same guy, and what is more, I don’t have anything to discuss with Deacon Basil Paul; assuming I could find contact info for him or that that is the same guy.   Someone claiming to be a “Syrian Orthodox” deacon from Kerala affixed their signature to the top of that Open Letter / Petition from Orthodoxy In Dialogue calling for the Orthodox Church to allow infanticide and homosexuality.  If anyone knows who this chap is, someone needs to tell their bishop.  Meanwhile in the case of the chap you found on Facebook, because the accusation is so serious, I don’t even want to ask him if he’s the same deacon; given that Basil Paul is a very common ecclesiastical name in India, for example, His Holiness Moran Mor Baselios Mar Thoma Paulose is the autocephalous Catholicos of the Indian Orthodox Church and one of the three great bishops of the Syriac Orthodox community (along with His Holiness Patriarch Ignatius II Aphrem Karim and His Beatitude the Maphrian of the Jacobite/Patriarchal churches in India).

Also sometimes people in the OO church call themselves “Deacons” when they are not technically full deacons.  This is more common in the Coptic Church, but finding the right Basil Paul, assuming it is not a psuedonym, is important.  I can’t imagine his fellow clergy or his bishop are aware of that Orthodoxy in Dialogue website, but it is pretty scandalous; as Fr. Peter said, there is nothing Orthodox about it.  Also, I doubt they are terribly interested in dialogue; the entire project looks frankly like virtue-signalling to me.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2018, 01:22:37 PM »
I mean, some of the points aren't bad... support pregnant women and love everyone is pretty Christian.  The problem is conflating love and support with permitting what God has forbidden.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2018, 02:01:46 PM »
I mean, some of the points aren't bad... support pregnant women and love everyone is pretty Christian.  The problem is conflating love and support with permitting what God has forbidden.

Indeed.  Or the accusation that if we refuse to tolerate abortions we somehow hate women and are sexist and misogynist.  Or that if we refuse to countenance homosexual behavior we hate people who have a struggle with that temptation.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline jobin219

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2018, 09:19:14 AM »
This individual is indeed a deacon of the SOC (Malankara Jacobite) Church in India. He is a reader (Quroyo) by rank...
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Offline jobin219

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2018, 09:36:02 AM »
 An excerpt from his blog,
Quote
Queer Christ is the need of the hour and even Queer Christologies for that matter. It is because heteronormativity has become the dominant paradigm and institutionalized homophobia has petrified Church and much of Christian theology. Heterosexuality is promulgated as the divine plan, which eventually legitimizes exploitation of LGBTIQ people.

http://basilseccentricities.blogspot.com/2017/08/womb-of-virgin-mary-cradle-for-queer.html?m=1
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2018, 10:24:08 AM »
Oh dear.  :-[  That post is incredibly concerning, but I don't want to bash him personally and am not sure we should be collectively calling for this or that action here.

I have seen the attitude he is reacting against in my former tradition, so to an extent, I do actually understand his point on that.  They had difficulty putting God's commandments and mercy in the same cup.  I do think there's a better solution, perhaps, than what looks to me like a reinterpretation of the Incarnation...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 10:24:46 AM by Ainnir »
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2018, 10:59:53 AM »
That is blasphemy. No one posting that should be a Reader, let alone actually a Deacon.
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Offline ZackShenouda439

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2018, 11:53:18 AM »
An excerpt from his blog,
Quote
Queer Christ is the need of the hour and even Queer Christologies for that matter. It is because heteronormativity has become the dominant paradigm and institutionalized homophobia has petrified Church and much of Christian theology. Heterosexuality is promulgated as the divine plan, which eventually legitimizes exploitation of LGBTIQ people.

http://basilseccentricities.blogspot.com/2017/08/womb-of-virgin-mary-cradle-for-queer.html?m=1

Not good. Blasphemous.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2018, 03:02:38 PM »
This individual is indeed a deacon of the SOC (Malankara Jacobite) Church in India. He is a reader (Quroyo) by rank...

Oh great, so not only does he drag the name of the Syriac Orthodox community through the mud by signing that ridiculous open letter, but he also overstates his rank.  While it is the case that the readers, subdeacons and deacons are often collectively, colloquially and inaccurately called “The deacons” like in the Coptic church, it is utterly misleading for someone not ordained as a deacon, or allowed to wear a stole over one shoulder, to refer to oneself as a Deacon when signing in the foremost position, as the key authority, a highly controversial Open Letter concerning church practice.  I did anticipate this was the case in Post 11. 

By the way, I am disappointed that my conjecture in Post 1 that he was more likely with the Jacobite faction proved accurate; why is it that every embarassing scandal manages to get attached to the beleaguered Patriarch of Antioch, as if he didn’t have enough to deal with?  I was really hoping this chap would turn out to be a member of a Villatte-Ferrette type vagante group. 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 03:03:26 PM by Alpha60 »
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2018, 03:08:43 PM »
An excerpt from his blog,
Quote
Queer Christ is the need of the hour and even Queer Christologies for that matter. It is because heteronormativity has become the dominant paradigm and institutionalized homophobia has petrified Church and much of Christian theology. Heterosexuality is promulgated as the divine plan, which eventually legitimizes exploitation of LGBTIQ people.

http://basilseccentricities.blogspot.com/2017/08/womb-of-virgin-mary-cradle-for-queer.html?m=1

Not good. Blasphemous.

Indeed.

That is blasphemy. No one posting that should be a Reader, let alone actually a Deacon.

You said it Father.

So hopefully someone can inform the bishop so that appropriate action might be taken.  Or even his priest.   Its hard to imagine a Syriac Orthodox priest putting up with this nonsense, and many priests in India are Chorepiscopi with the ability to ordain and presumably depose readers on their own (one major reason for making them Chorepiscopi, so as to reduce the episcopal workload; the Assyrian Church of the East uses this approach also at their major urban churches in the US).
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline jobin219

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2018, 03:19:46 PM »
This individual is indeed a deacon of the SOC (Malankara Jacobite) Church in India. He is a reader (Quroyo) by rank...

Oh great, so not only does he drag the name of the Syriac Orthodox community through the mud by signing that ridiculous open letter, but he also overstates his rank.  While it is the case that the readers, subdeacons and deacons are often collectively, colloquially and inaccurately called “The deacons” like in the Coptic church, it is utterly misleading for someone not ordained as a deacon, or allowed to wear a stole over one shoulder, to refer to oneself as a Deacon when signing in the foremost position, as the key authority, a highly controversial Open Letter concerning church practice.  I did anticipate this was the case in Post 11. 

By the way, I am disappointed that my conjecture in Post 1 that he was more likely with the Jacobite faction proved accurate; why is it that every embarassing scandal manages to get attached to the beleaguered Patriarch of Antioch, as if he didn’t have enough to deal with?  I was really hoping this chap would turn out to be a member of a Villatte-Ferrette type vagante group.

I am not going to play a game of "whataboutism" but to say that all scandals emanate from the Patriarchate of Antioch is highly erroneous. Scandals of various degree plague both churches in India without impunity.
It is quite embarrassing that the name of the Syriac Orthodox Church is being besmirched.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2018, 08:20:00 PM »
This individual is indeed a deacon of the SOC (Malankara Jacobite) Church in India. He is a reader (Quroyo) by rank...

Oh great, so not only does he drag the name of the Syriac Orthodox community through the mud by signing that ridiculous open letter, but he also overstates his rank.  While it is the case that the readers, subdeacons and deacons are often collectively, colloquially and inaccurately called “The deacons” like in the Coptic church, it is utterly misleading for someone not ordained as a deacon, or allowed to wear a stole over one shoulder, to refer to oneself as a Deacon when signing in the foremost position, as the key authority, a highly controversial Open Letter concerning church practice.  I did anticipate this was the case in Post 11. 

By the way, I am disappointed that my conjecture in Post 1 that he was more likely with the Jacobite faction proved accurate; why is it that every embarassing scandal manages to get attached to the beleaguered Patriarch of Antioch, as if he didn’t have enough to deal with?  I was really hoping this chap would turn out to be a member of a Villatte-Ferrette type vagante group.

I am not going to play a game of "whataboutism" but to say that all scandals emanate from the Patriarchate of Antioch is highly erroneous. Scandals of various degree plague both churches in India without impunity.
It is quite embarrassing that the name of the Syriac Orthodox Church is being besmirched.

Note I myself was received into Orthodoxy through the Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch, at St. Ephrem’s Cathedral in Los Angeles, and I happen to love being a member of our church.  I finally tracked down the local Syriac Orthodox parish in the city in which I now reside and will be going there on Sunday.  So I am particularly incensed (in the sense of being infuriated, rather than in the sense of having a thurible waved at me) that this insolent reader dared to sign this blasphemous tome of the “Heterodoxy in Dialogue” people claiming to be a full Deacon in the Syriac Orthodox Church. 
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2018, 08:22:27 PM »
That is blasphemy. No one posting that should be a Reader, let alone actually a Deacon.

Even the subtitle of his blog is blasphemous in that it appears to be a denial of Theosis.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline surajiype

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2018, 05:10:14 AM »
AFAIK this person is a student at Union Theological Seminary in Bangalore. In India the mainstream protestant denominations have recently begun to mirror their western brethren in espousing the same relativist and liberal theology that is now the norm elsewhere. I think the best way for people to proceed would be to write to the concerned Synod/Bishop and ask whether this is the position of the Church and whether this person was authorised to write on behalf of his church in this manner.

Offline surajiype

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2018, 05:13:41 AM »
Met. Kuriakose Theophilos will perhaps be the best person to start with . I don't know which Jacobite diocese this person represents.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Who does Deacon Basil Paul work for?
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2018, 10:44:06 AM »
AFAIK this person is a student at Union Theological Seminary in Bangalore. In India the mainstream protestant denominations have recently begun to mirror their western brethren in espousing the same relativist and liberal theology that is now the norm elsewhere. I think the best way for people to proceed would be to write to the concerned Synod/Bishop and ask whether this is the position of the Church and whether this person was authorised to write on behalf of his church in this manner.

Isn’t there a Jacobite seminary?  MOSC has a very good one.  I can’t see the point of ordaining priests from heterodox seminaries when we have our own.

In the past in the US, Nashotah House, a traditional Episcopalian seminary, participated in the formation of Orthodox clergy, but with the proliferation of Orthodox seminaries this is not necccessary.
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