Author Topic: Obedience  (Read 1389 times)

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Offline Tzimis

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2018, 04:51:19 PM »
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that St. Constantine is pre-Schism.
He isn't listed on the latin calender.  http://www.boston-catholic-journal.com/roman-martrylogy-in-english/roman-martyrology-may-in-english.htm#May_21st

Offline hecma925

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2018, 04:58:20 PM »
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that St. Constantine is pre-Schism.
This is correct for all schisms, not just the 1054 one.  ;)

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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2018, 12:51:32 PM »
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that St. Constantine is pre-Schism.
He isn't listed on the latin calender.  http://www.boston-catholic-journal.com/roman-martrylogy-in-english/roman-martyrology-may-in-english.htm#May_21st

By that logic, Sts Katherine and Barbara are not venerated by Catholics. Even though they obviously are.
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Offline biro

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2018, 01:27:55 PM »
He's been told several times that he's wrong.
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Offline Tzimis

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2018, 02:16:03 PM »
Latins have a vendetta against st Constantine. 

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2018, 02:32:04 PM »
The blimp laicized a nasal palimpsest. I have proof.
Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2018, 04:35:00 PM »
If you lost it all on account of an individual.  You'll feel the same as the Vatican.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2018, 05:18:57 PM »
If you lost it all on account of an individual.  You'll feel the same as the Vatican.

If you don’t stop this off-topic nonsense, I will.  It would be better for you if you stopped it, even if it’s less fun for me.

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Offline Svetlana

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #53 on: November 08, 2018, 04:41:19 PM »
obedience and discipline is a type of virtue

Thank you for this insight.  Can you elaborate ?

-- Svetlana

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2018, 04:49:18 PM »
We have to obey God and obey others in Him. I don't think that someone collecting people for him should be followed, but should be respected for the sake of the responsibility the Church has give to him (and because we may not be judging him rightly). I believe obeying the Church hierarchy (not individuals) is obeying God. Otherwise everyone will have his own judgement and there will be no one Church. I think the 1st epistle of Clement has all the materials for this matter.

--
Thank you also for your thoughts on this.  Yes, I do agree with you that we must respect the role and responsibility of pastors who have been given the task of guiding us.

Do you have a link by which I can access the 1st epistle of Clement ?

Also, your logo shows that you are Ethiopian (?).  In this case, I would readily understand your response as natural to what you experience in Oriental Orthodoxy.  Those ancient Christian Apostolic traditions are simpler and closer to what Apostles gave.

My question, thus, may continue further :  what to do in the case of grave mistakenness on the part of clergy -- or even insistence on obedience on their part, when you have suffered wrongs from them ?  And of course, just like medical doctors in malpractice -- they all cover for each other.  We small parishioners are left with no protection.  This is more the case on the Byzantine side, because of their total domination system.

Thus, once again, my question on obedience is serious.  I have suffered very much from clergy in this.

-- Svetlana

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2018, 06:50:47 PM »
I guess my questions would be:

When should you not be obedient?
What are the commonly occurring examples for this situation?
If there aren't common examples, what are the rare ones that we should be prepared for?

--
Thank you for your input.  My ditto to your questions.  Answer, once again, is our own discernment, which should be attuned to the Holy Spirit.  Problem is that the Orthodox Churches do not teach us to think for ourselves, but to be obedient to clergy.  In our "late days" era, it is wise not to obey priests.  And discern advice toward positive outcome -- keeping a keen eye on the whole picture.

I was the one who started this thread, not expecting the nonsense that came onto it.
I believe I have come up with m own answers.

-- Svetlana

Offline ayenew

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2018, 04:18:45 AM »
We have to obey God and obey others in Him. I don't think that someone collecting people for him should be followed, but should be respected for the sake of the responsibility the Church has give to him (and because we may not be judging him rightly). I believe obeying the Church hierarchy (not individuals) is obeying God. Otherwise everyone will have his own judgement and there will be no one Church. I think the 1st epistle of Clement has all the materials for this matter.

--
Thank you also for your thoughts on this.  Yes, I do agree with you that we must respect the role and responsibility of pastors who have been given the task of guiding us.

Do you have a link by which I can access the 1st epistle of Clement ?

Also, your logo shows that you are Ethiopian (?).  In this case, I would readily understand your response as natural to what you experience in Oriental Orthodoxy.  Those ancient Christian Apostolic traditions are simpler and closer to what Apostles gave.

My question, thus, may continue further :  what to do in the case of grave mistakenness on the part of clergy -- or even insistence on obedience on their part, when you have suffered wrongs from them ?  And of course, just like medical doctors in malpractice -- they all cover for each other.  We small parishioners are left with no protection.  This is more the case on the Byzantine side, because of their total domination system.

Thus, once again, my question on obedience is serious.  I have suffered very much from clergy in this.

-- Svetlana

Here is a link I am using: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01

Or an audio book at: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MVAp8NU6DAk

Yes, I believe it is the "simple" and conservative approach of our church that is closely related to early(apostolic) Christianity. But, it will never mean there is no problem here. There is.

I think we are authorised to tell any mistakes (even of the fathers) to the Church, as in Mathew 18:17. But, it may be difficult if all are in the wrong (assuming you are a right judge 😊). After all there is only one father that you cannot change, God. Our ultimate goal is to be with Him and I think we have to judge everything from this perspective, but carefully.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 04:20:55 AM by ayenew »