Author Topic: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship  (Read 1440 times)

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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« on: March 16, 2018, 02:45:42 PM »
My father, who "converted' to Roman Catholicism because my mother was Roman Catholic (his father was an Evangelical Protestant Minister - they were the "Church of Christ"; they were basically conservative Baptists who believed the Baptists erred when it came to instruments) - has really held on to his Protestant beliefs and really didn't learn anything in his catechism course. He only converted because he wanted to stop being embarrassed when everyone went up for communion. He's been listening to a "very well informed" Protestant minister on the radio "who is a Bible-believing Christian" and is a conspiracy theorist.

What he (the radio commentary) has spoken about extensively, however, is how the "Roman Catholic Church," you know, "the Whore of Babylon", actually has adapted Pagan rituals, especially with the use of the Eucharist, which was adapted from "Pagan Sun Worshippers in Egypt" who "worshiped Horace and believed that the Sun came down and became wafers."

And of course, I'm falling to the Illuminati's trappings by being a sheep who partakes in sun worship in the Orthodox Church. He of course doesn't listen to anything I say when I show him Saint Justin Martyr's letters showing the Eucharist from very, very early on, or showing the "Thanksgiving" in the Didache and how it's the same as the Eucharist, or showing how in the Letter of Clement the early Church had bishops.

I have heard this claim throughout my entire life from ignorant Protestant ministers, and what comes to mind immediately is that of Jack Chick and his comic.



Of course, you know those good ole Pagans believed in "Transubstantiation" (a term from Aquinas) and used "unleavened Eucharistic bread" (which we know the current form of Roman Catholic bread came around the 800s) and of course, their priests used "Chi Ro" staffs for Osiris worship (which is a Christian symbol that didn't exist before Christianity in any form).


But this is a "popular" theory among all these Protestants.

For example,
http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/roman-catholic-sun-worship-eucharist.html
http://biblelight.net/verita.htm
http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/origin_of_babylon_sun_worship.html


Where the heck did this theory have origins from? Are these just uneducated Protestants who seek prophecy applying solely to them by reading the Old Testament, finding correlations in unlikely places? Is there any academic origins of this theory?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 02:49:03 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2018, 03:45:52 PM »
No idea about Egyptians or Babylonians, but Mithraists had a rite of sharing bread, which they may have copied themselves from Christian practice.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2018, 03:53:42 PM »
Is there any academic origins of this theory?

If you like to think of academia over the years as something pure and special, you're in for a host of bitter surprises. In this particular case, the High Modern academic period was full of anti-ecclesiastical, anti-Semitic assertions like these, and it was still being pushed hard in some courses in my grandparents' college days.

However, most of what you're describing is (whatever its abstruse origins) from the work of American anti-Catholics in the late 1800s. There was a national craze to express every slander and prejudice you can imagine, which in some cases erupted into actual violence (the burning of a nunnery comes to mind) and legislation. Some of Chick Publications' books are reproductions or reworkings of books from that era. But Jack Chick being Jack Chick, a lot of it is also new. I have a secret to tell you about Fundamentalist Christians in America: They lie. Not just sophisticate, obfuscate -- tho they do this too -- but baldly and sometimes viciously lie.

It all comes down to hatred.
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Offline JTLoganville

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2018, 04:24:36 PM »
I have a secret to tell you about Fundamentalist Christians in America: They lie. Not just sophisticate, obfuscate -- tho they do this too -- but baldly and sometimes viciously lie.

They pervert the Eighth/Ninth Commandment by portraying themselves and their activities in the most favorable light and portraying anyone not of their ilk as being the spawn of S***n.

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2018, 09:38:31 AM »
You know the story of Pied Piper with flute taking from city whomever listen to his song putting them to danger?

This is another song of Pied Piper that takes people and families and children and fathers and mothers from immortality to not having life in them . Who listens to him gets in trouble.

Who listens to bible and Holy Liturgy and goes to Eastern orthodox Church gets immortality,.

You choose.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 09:49:19 AM by pasadi97 »
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2018, 10:19:54 AM »
You know the story of Pied Piper with flute taking from city whomever listen to his song putting them to danger?

This is another song of Pied Piper that takes people and families and children and fathers and mothers from immortality to not having life in them . Who listens to him gets in trouble.

Who listens to bible and Holy Liturgy and goes to Eastern orthodox Church gets immortality,.

You choose.

I'm not convinced of the claim, especially because most claims are tied to ideas which are postschism. For example, saying "Transubstantiation occurred during Pagan Egypt with Sun Wafers, which is what occurs with Catholic Eucharistic adoration" is a stupid claim.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 10:26:31 AM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2018, 01:21:41 PM »


A classic one.

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2018, 02:05:13 PM »
A guy with a giant fish coming out the back of his head looks nothing like a man with a hat that stands for the flame of the Holy Spirit.
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2018, 02:34:50 PM »


A classic one.

Oh come on. I could do better than that from just a couple of Google Images searching!

"The Whore of Babylon and her offspring children - the Orthodox Church, for example - have simply adopted Pagan worship into their own belief system in order to spread their political influence. One example of this is Egypt; Egypt itself stole the Babylonian gods that were worshiped, and compare this image of a Babylonian Patriarch to the Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria."


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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2018, 02:37:35 PM »
Let's see if people can notice the sleight of hand I pulled.
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2018, 03:06:30 PM »
This sort of thing mostly makes sense to those whose grasp of history is limited to what they ate last week.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline juliogb

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2018, 03:15:35 PM »
Undebunkable proof that orthodox are pagans, look at the snakes in his staff.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 03:15:46 PM by juliogb »

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2018, 03:24:26 PM »
Undebunkable proof that orthodox are pagans, look at the snakes in his staff.



You have to show us where Orthodox Church says put 2 snakes in that whatever it is. If it is a personal choice is not Church to blame.
We are not Luther that saw a drunk priest or whatever he saw and got the idea that ALL Church failed even if Bible told him that the gates of Hell will not prevail.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 03:26:43 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2018, 03:35:30 PM »


A classic one.

When I salute I have the hand like pope and the other guy. Does it mean I am pope? I did not know that. I have to change my salute as not to bring confusion.

Coincidences. This is what they are.

Eastern Orthodox Christianity is PERFECT Church established by perfect GOD>
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2018, 03:46:51 PM »
Undebunkable proof that orthodox are pagans, look at the snakes in his staff.



You have to show us where Orthodox Church says put 2 snakes in that whatever it is. If it is a personal choice is not Church to blame.
We are not Luther that saw a drunk priest or whatever he saw and got the idea that ALL Church failed even if Bible told him that the gates of Hell will not prevail.

At a second look I see a cross on top of two snakes that is Cross or Christianity defeating the snakes that can symbolise paganism. Or Cross of Christianity defeating death and Hell.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 03:49:56 PM by pasadi97 »
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2018, 05:08:09 PM »
Let's see if people can notice the sleight of hand I pulled.

I have a couple of clues but nothing positive. Will you tell us?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2018, 05:26:38 PM »
Let's see if people can notice the sleight of hand I pulled.

I have a couple of clues but nothing positive. Will you tell us?

Me labeling a Babylonian king as a Patriarch, as well as the false assumption that Egyptian mythology is the same as Babylonian mythology.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 05:30:57 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2018, 07:24:20 AM »
Juliogb accidentally trolling pasadi. This is awesome.
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2018, 12:07:38 PM »
Undebunkable proof that orthodox are pagans, look at the snakes in his staff.



You do realize the significance of the bishop's staff, right?

Read up about Moses in the desert, and how God told him to raise his staff with a snake on it, and how all who gazed upon it lived, and the others all died from snake bites.  The "looking upon" the uplifted staff is compared to looking to Christ for salvation, and therefore, the staff has the cross and the snakes on it.

Unless you consider God and Moses to be a pagans, this argument holds no water.
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2018, 01:00:55 PM »
Undebunkable proof that orthodox are pagans, look at the snakes in his staff.



You do realize the significance of the bishop's staff, right?

Read up about Moses in the desert, and how God told him to raise his staff with a snake on it, and how all who gazed upon it lived, and the others all died from snake bites.  The "looking upon" the uplifted staff is compared to looking to Christ for salvation, and therefore, the staff has the cross and the snakes on it.

Unless you consider God and Moses to be a pagans, this argument holds no water.

Nah - it's obvs pagan.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 01:01:59 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2018, 01:09:03 PM »
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 01:11:05 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2018, 01:23:48 PM »
I mean, have you seen this website?

https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Russian_Orthodox/ro-idolatry.htm

Checkmate, I win.

Yawn. When they catch up with 21st century graphics, I might even snicker.
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2018, 03:23:07 PM »
ok ok, but what about this, clearly a death cult.


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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2018, 10:54:03 PM »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2018, 03:54:52 PM »
ok ok, but what about this, clearly a death cult.



2 Kings 13:21 Once while some Israelites were burying a man, suddenly they saw a band of raiders; so they threw the man's body into Elisha's tomb. When the body touched Elisha's bones, the man came to life and stood up on his feet.

Relicves can heal.

Very nice, the Church that gives eternal life named death cult so people get scared and stay without life in them. Clever but bad. Piper Pied song . Ask God for once and find where the true Church is.

Get over it.

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« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 03:58:54 PM by pasadi97 »
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2018, 08:33:10 PM »
A guy with a giant fish coming out the back of his head looks nothing like a man with a hat that stands for the flame of the Holy Spirit.

Also, AFAIK modern scholars usually now interpret the Philistine (not Babylonian) Dagon as a corn deity, not a fish.

I wonder what the person who put that meme together thinks of all the Christians who stick the ἰχθύς on the back of their cars.
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2018, 08:35:03 PM »
ok ok, but what about this, clearly a death cult.



2 Kings 13:21 Once while some Israelites were burying a man, suddenly they saw a band of raiders; so they threw the man's body into Elisha's tomb. When the body touched Elisha's bones, the man came to life and stood up on his feet.

Relicves can heal.

Very nice, the Church that gives eternal life named death cult so people get scared and stay without life in them. Clever but bad. Piper Pied song . Ask God for once and find where the true Church is.

Get over it.

Eastern Orthodox Church is THE PERFECT CHURCH ESTABLISHED BY PERFECT GOD.

Julio is Orthodox. He's just making fun of bad Protestant arguments.
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2018, 08:40:06 PM »
I mean, have you seen this website?

https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Russian_Orthodox/ro-idolatry.htm

Checkmate, I win.
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I think my favorite thing about that page is his obsession with tying everything with a skull on it to the Skull and Bones, as if a bunch of drunk Yalies are really an ancient and powerful order. It's like something Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson would come up with.
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2018, 01:23:41 AM »
I think my favorite thing about that page is his obsession with tying everything with a skull on it to the Skull and Bones, as if a bunch of drunk Yalies are really an ancient and powerful order. It's like something Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson would come up with.
Isn't it hilarious how a disciple of Sola Scriptura missed what Golgotha means?
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2018, 04:14:04 AM »
I think my favorite thing about that page is his obsession with tying everything with a skull on it to the Skull and Bones, as if a bunch of drunk Yalies are really an ancient and powerful order. It's like something Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson would come up with.
Isn't it hilarious how a disciple of Sola Scriptura missed what Golgotha means?

Really.
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Offline Rubricnigel

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2018, 02:36:59 PM »
My father, who "converted' to Roman Catholicism because my mother was Roman Catholic (his father was an Evangelical Protestant Minister - they were the "Church of Christ"; they were basically conservative Baptists who believed the Baptists erred when it came to instruments) - has really held on to his Protestant beliefs and really didn't learn anything in his catechism course. He only converted because he wanted to stop being embarrassed when everyone went up for communion. He's been listening to a "very well informed" Protestant minister on the radio "who is a Bible-believing Christian" and is a conspiracy theorist.

What he (the radio commentary) has spoken about extensively, however, is how the "Roman Catholic Church," you know, "the Whore of Babylon", actually has adapted Pagan rituals, especially with the use of the Eucharist, which was adapted from "Pagan Sun Worshippers in Egypt" who "worshiped Horace and believed that the Sun came down and became wafers."

And of course, I'm falling to the Illuminati's trappings by being a sheep who partakes in sun worship in the Orthodox Church. He of course doesn't listen to anything I say when I show him Saint Justin Martyr's letters showing the Eucharist from very, very early on, or showing the "Thanksgiving" in the Didache and how it's the same as the Eucharist, or showing how in the Letter of Clement the early Church had bishops.

I have heard this claim throughout my entire life from ignorant Protestant ministers, and what comes to mind immediately is that of Jack Chick and his comic.



Of course, you know those good ole Pagans believed in "Transubstantiation" (a term from Aquinas) and used "unleavened Eucharistic bread" (which we know the current form of Roman Catholic bread came around the 800s) and of course, their priests used "Chi Ro" staffs for Osiris worship (which is a Christian symbol that didn't exist before Christianity in any form).


But this is a "popular" theory among all these Protestants.

For example,
http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/roman-catholic-sun-worship-eucharist.html
http://biblelight.net/verita.htm
http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/origin_of_babylon_sun_worship.html


Where the heck did this theory have origins from? Are these just uneducated Protestants who seek prophecy applying solely to them by reading the Old Testament, finding correlations in unlikely places? Is there any academic origins of this theory?

Was it Bill Cooper?

https://archive.org/details/MysteryBabylonSeries-WilliamCoopertranscriptIncl

His Mystery Babylon series is a great listeen, and give a perspective on esoteric societies, and ghnostic thinking.
Cooper was a Christian but explains alot about the mystery schools.

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2018, 03:34:17 PM »
Yes, but I was disturbed with some of the conclusions which my father was coming up with - particularly with the conclusions of Catholic Egyptian sun worship, which is a logical claim that I've seen several times and have not found any solid evidence or even historical logic to substantiate such a claim, such that I was wondering where the origins of the theory come from. When my father told me the Eucharist comes from the Egyptians putting unleavened wafers out in the sun so that sunlight would hit the wafers and consume " the son / sun ", I disrespectfully snickered at him, because that contradicts so much information of Christian history I already know; particularly the development of wafers from the 800s.

Perhaps there is some history im unaware of, and I was wondering where such claims come from.

And he was an Evangelical Christian, not merely "a Christian."
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 03:41:41 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2018, 03:45:55 PM »
A guy with a giant fish coming out the back of his head looks nothing like a man with a hat that stands for the flame of the Holy Spirit.

Also, AFAIK modern scholars usually now interpret the Philistine (not Babylonian) Dagon as a corn deity, not a fish.

I wonder what the person who put that meme together thinks of all the Christians who stick the ἰχθύς on the back of their cars.

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2018, 05:02:21 PM »
Yes, but I was disturbed with some of the conclusions which my father was coming up with - particularly with the conclusions of Catholic Egyptian sun worship, which is a logical claim that I've seen several times and have not found any solid evidence or even historical logic to substantiate such a claim, such that I was wondering where the origins of the theory come from. When my father told me the Eucharist comes from the Egyptians putting unleavened wafers out in the sun so that sunlight would hit the wafers and consume " the son / sun ", I disrespectfully snickered at him, because that contradicts so much information of Christian history I already know; particularly the development of wafers from the 800s.

Perhaps there is some history im unaware of, and I was wondering where such claims come from.

And he was an Evangelical Christian, not merely "a Christian."

A perfect storm of fantastic imagination, high modernists like James Frazer improbably combining with anti-Catholics like the Know-Nothing party. None of it could have arisen outside the particular milieu of the 1800s, in my opinion, altho it's only fair to acknowledge remnants of such attacks remain in academia and seminaries, usually very very watered-down. For the real stuff, nowadays, you have to find crazy fringe groups.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 05:04:31 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2018, 08:19:50 PM »
I was just thinking about this very topic today! Before starting my own thread I decided to look for what's already out there and I found this! Awesome stuff.

Just to clarify though, my question was: Where do Protestants get the idea that Orthodox and Roman Catholic praxis and aesthetics is all paganry?

This question has seemed to be slightly answered in this thread but not entirely. Anyway, what really made me think about this topic is a conversation I had with a Protestant who brought up the Dagon thing and how it relates to the Latin mitre. He then went onto say that, once Constantine made Christianity the state religion, all the pagans were essentially forced to become Christian at that time, however since they didn't want to give up their religion, they basically just incorporated pagan imagery and practices into Christianity. I, like some others in this thread, would like to know where the historical evidence for this is. Also, if the Church was and always has been "Orthodox", and if it has always been concerned with keeping a hedge of protection around the true faith, then how could it allow for paganism to enter in and poison its purity? At that point it certainly would not be the true church anymore which means when Jesus said that the gates of hell would never prevail over the Church he must have been lying...because surely hell would have prevailed here. Therefore, you would have to believe that the very church that decided what would be canonical scripture and what wouldn't, the very church that guarded against the multitude of heresies and the very church that kept the purity of the faith was in fact in apostasy for close to 1,200 years and only after the advent of Protestantism did it return to the truth. Brothers and sisters, please explain to me how this could be possible/true?
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2018, 08:31:19 PM »

Just to clarify though, my question was: Where do Protestants get the idea that Orthodox and Roman Catholic praxis and aesthetics is all paganry?

Nineteenth century Germans.
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2018, 08:37:22 PM »
Wow...this topic gets more and more interesting.

Just saw this thread and it really hit home for me! http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=47395.0

I like what was said about humans coming to the same conclusions about worship based upon common human experience, subconscious, etc. and also how even if some pagan things were changed into Christian things it didn't mean that anything was borrowed outright. It was more of a fulfillment of those things, if you will. So in addition to what I said in my above post here, I also think we need to factor in these things too; any type of discussion about this topic that doesn't factor in these things is missing something I think. Anyway, what an enlightening thread.
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2018, 08:48:19 PM »

Just to clarify though, my question was: Where do Protestants get the idea that Orthodox and Roman Catholic praxis and aesthetics is all paganry?

Nineteenth century Germans.

Further promulgated by the likes of Jack Chick.
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2018, 08:22:56 AM »
I was just thinking about this very topic today! Before starting my own thread I decided to look for what's already out there and I found this! Awesome stuff.

Just to clarify though, my question was: Where do Protestants get the idea that Orthodox and Roman Catholic praxis and aesthetics is all paganry?

This question has seemed to be slightly answered in this thread but not entirely. Anyway, what really made me think about this topic is a conversation I had with a Protestant who brought up the Dagon thing and how it relates to the Latin mitre. He then went onto say that, once Constantine made Christianity the state religion, all the pagans were essentially forced to become Christian at that time, however since they didn't want to give up their religion, they basically just incorporated pagan imagery and practices into Christianity. I, like some others in this thread, would like to know where the historical evidence for this is. Also, if the Church was and always has been "Orthodox", and if it has always been concerned with keeping a hedge of protection around the true faith, then how could it allow for paganism to enter in and poison its purity? At that point it certainly would not be the true church anymore which means when Jesus said that the gates of hell would never prevail over the Church he must have been lying...because surely hell would have prevailed here. Therefore, you would have to believe that the very church that decided what would be canonical scripture and what wouldn't, the very church that guarded against the multitude of heresies and the very church that kept the purity of the faith was in fact in apostasy for close to 1,200 years and only after the advent of Protestantism did it return to the truth. Brothers and sisters, please explain to me how this could be possible/true?

Well, rhetoric was something of the greek pagan culture that was used by christians, apostles included, to spread the message of the Gospel. The jews abandoned their old proto-hebrew/phoenician alphabet to use a babylonian influenced alphabet. Influences from pagan cultures allways existed, and they are not necessarily bad, I view that as a redemption of culture, or an adjustment of the culture to fit God's intended pattern. So, positive things of pagan cultures were mantained in christianity.

Nevertheless, it is possible that negative pagan influences crept into the Church, but not as a whole, but in places with bad catechesis, iliteracy and lack of pastoral care, where there is a lot of superstitions that are mixed with christian religion, for exemple, places where people consult tarot cards, fortune tellers, palm readers and stuff like that, but as I said, it is lack of pastoral care and proper catechesis.

Pagans often bathed themselves in animal blood, drank animal blood, consulted sacrificed animal's guts for divination purposes, had temple prostitutes, other pagan traditions had human sacrifice, child sacrifice, ritual killing, use of opioids, hallucinogenic drugs, invocation of spirits and demonic possession as part of their practices. All of those practices were forbidden and banned in christianity, so, all that pagan influence that people talk so much is just exageration and ignorance.




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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2018, 04:47:31 PM »
I was just thinking about this very topic today! Before starting my own thread I decided to look for what's already out there and I found this! Awesome stuff.

Just to clarify though, my question was: Where do Protestants get the idea that Orthodox and Roman Catholic praxis and aesthetics is all paganry?

This question has seemed to be slightly answered in this thread but not entirely. Anyway, what really made me think about this topic is a conversation I had with a Protestant who brought up the Dagon thing and how it relates to the Latin mitre. He then went onto say that, once Constantine made Christianity the state religion, all the pagans were essentially forced to become Christian at that time, however since they didn't want to give up their religion, they basically just incorporated pagan imagery and practices into Christianity. I, like some others in this thread, would like to know where the historical evidence for this is. Also, if the Church was and always has been "Orthodox", and if it has always been concerned with keeping a hedge of protection around the true faith, then how could it allow for paganism to enter in and poison its purity? At that point it certainly would not be the true church anymore which means when Jesus said that the gates of hell would never prevail over the Church he must have been lying...because surely hell would have prevailed here. Therefore, you would have to believe that the very church that decided what would be canonical scripture and what wouldn't, the very church that guarded against the multitude of heresies and the very church that kept the purity of the faith was in fact in apostasy for close to 1,200 years and only after the advent of Protestantism did it return to the truth. Brothers and sisters, please explain to me how this could be possible/true?

Well, rhetoric was something of the greek pagan culture that was used by christians, apostles included, to spread the message of the Gospel. The jews abandoned their old proto-hebrew/phoenician alphabet to use a babylonian influenced alphabet. Influences from pagan cultures allways existed, and they are not necessarily bad, I view that as a redemption of culture, or an adjustment of the culture to fit God's intended pattern. So, positive things of pagan cultures were mantained in christianity.

Nevertheless, it is possible that negative pagan influences crept into the Church, but not as a whole, but in places with bad catechesis, iliteracy and lack of pastoral care, where there is a lot of superstitions that are mixed with christian religion, for exemple, places where people consult tarot cards, fortune tellers, palm readers and stuff like that, but as I said, it is lack of pastoral care and proper catechesis.

Pagans often bathed themselves in animal blood, drank animal blood, consulted sacrificed animal's guts for divination purposes, had temple prostitutes, other pagan traditions had human sacrifice, child sacrifice, ritual killing, use of opioids, hallucinogenic drugs, invocation of spirits and demonic possession as part of their practices. All of those practices were forbidden and banned in christianity, so, all that pagan influence that people talk so much is just exageration and ignorance.





Outstanding reply, thank you. I agree that there are definitely positive things about pagan cultures that were essentially "transfigured" into Christian things and there is nothing wrong with that. In as far as something points to Christ God then it is good. Just like the whole "be the bee" thing. Sweetness can be found and used for God's kingdom in every culture I think.

On the flip side, yes, as far as the claims to negative paganism within Christianity I think that is all exaggeration and conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality. And just like you said, if anything like that ever crept in it was due to some sort of failure maybe somewhere on a local level but it was never something that was introduced to the whole of Christianity as it obviously goes against the entire ethos of the Church.

Anyway, thanks for that reply, that really helped to clarify the whole thing!
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2018, 05:02:42 PM »
Undebunkable proof that orthodox are pagans, look at the snakes in his staff.



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« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 05:03:39 PM by Jackson02 »
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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2018, 07:09:42 PM »


A classic one.

Oh come on. I could do better than that from just a couple of Google Images searching!

"The Whore of Babylon and her offspring children - the Orthodox Church, for example - have simply adopted Pagan worship into their own belief system in order to spread their political influence. One example of this is Egypt; Egypt itself stole the Babylonian gods that were worshiped, and compare this image of a Babylonian Patriarch to the Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria."



Im called a conspiracy believer (most have alot of verified evidence) and these "pagans" and "athiests" who try to subvert the church to destroy it's faithful followers always stand out, for what they are a big pile of cr**.

I never see the faithless attacking hindus, moslems, zaoists, etc. Why is that? Could it be they know Jesus is the true lord, and they're attacking whats righteous?
Thats what ive always thought anyway

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Re: Eucharistic "Babylonian - Egyptian" Sun Worship
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2018, 08:21:01 PM »
Most conspiracy theories do not have a lot of evidence.
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