Author Topic: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"  (Read 554 times)

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Offline Ray1

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"Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« on: December 30, 2017, 04:14:15 PM »
" NEW YORK (AP) — Construction on a Greek Orthodox church to replace one that was crushed in the Sept. 11 attacks has been temporarily suspended amid rising costs and questions over how donations have been managed.

The St. Nicholas National Shrine next to the World Trade Center memorial plaza was to replace a tiny church that was obliterated by the trade center’s south tower."


Source: http://religionnews.com/2017/12/26/construction-halted-at-church-destroyed-in-sept-11-attacks/

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2017, 09:38:49 PM »
I wish I could have seen it ready, went to the WTC memorial unaware it was still being constructed. I hope the existence of the church as such an important monument on such a central space publicises Orthodoxy when complete.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 09:39:35 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline Bryan Paul

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2018, 04:13:13 PM »
Has there been any further activity on this?
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Offline Agabus

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2018, 04:19:06 PM »
Has there been any further activity on this?

Sort of?

Quote
Alma has provided a 10 year $5.5 million mortgage at an initial 5-year rate of 4.25% along with a credit line on terms that are considered customary for commercial loans to a not-for-profit organization. The Archdiocese used loan proceeds from the mortgage and credit line aggregating $7.5 million to restore monies to the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and National Shrine, fulfill obligations to restricted funds and the pension plan, and to fund the Metropolises of the Archdiocese.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

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Offline Sethrak

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2018, 04:32:50 PM »
Well ~ hope they had enough insurance ~ and it get's back under way ```

Offline Brilko

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2018, 08:09:17 PM »
Alma Bank was founded by Efstathios Valiotis. The guy who sparked much controversy at the Holy Cross graduation ceremony.

Offline Agabus

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2018, 08:19:04 PM »
Alma Bank was founded by Efstathios Valiotis. The guy who sparked much controversy at the Holy Cross graduation ceremony.
The Greeks love embracing the Byzantine ethos.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Take a breath, read Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2018, 10:08:38 PM »
Has there been any further activity on this?

The Archdiocese has restored funds* to the St Nicholas project, and have made payments toward the subcontractors with outstanding balances.  But the project won't re-start until a few things are handled, including:

- A thorough study on the true costs to complete the project
- The completion of the in-progress review over whether there were any favorable contracts / in-dealing
- Payment of past due balances, which will only be possible if the pledged donors fulfill their promises
- Fundraising (cash) for the remainder of the project.

The Archdiocese has indicated that they will likely spin off control of the project to a semi-independent "Friends of St. Nicholas" group.

* Not all funds that were owed had been borrowed.  Some of the monies repaid represented expenses for the project which had been allocated to St. Nicholas but which the Archdiocese has decided to re-absorb; some represent fundraising costs for the project which had been allocated to St. Nicholas but which the Archdiocese feels may not have been properly disclosed to donors and, therefore, are being re-absorbed by the GOA; and some were true borrowings (repaid with interest).  The GOA will further give to St. Nicholas gains on investments held between 2002 and 2013 which were legally able to be used by the GOA but which they feel it would be better to restore to St. Nicholas.  (Gains on investments since 2013 have stayed with St. Nicholas all along.)

------------------------------

Additionally, the first review phase of the St. Nicholas project by the Special Investigative Committee (5 major donors to the project with no official administrative/governance ties to the GOA), Baker Hostetler (representing the SIC), and PriceWaterhouseCooper (engaged by BH under attorney-client privilege) reviewed every transaction going back to the first post-9/11 insurance check and found that all monies could be accounted for and, more importantly, no monies other than the borrowings were spent outside of the donor restrictions.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2018, 11:33:20 PM »
Alma Bank was founded by Efstathios Valiotis. The guy who sparked much controversy at the Holy Cross graduation ceremony.
This seems to have been an awkward moment... lol
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline Sharbel

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2018, 10:24:05 AM »
Methinks that these obstacles are being thrown in by the angels of the Lord to stop this eyesore from being erected.
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Offline Saxon

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2018, 11:58:41 AM »
I was aware of this project but hadn't Googled an image until now...  :o Reminds me of that monstrosity the Russians built in Paris a couple of years ago.

Online Justin Kolodziej

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2018, 12:54:34 PM »
I was aware of this project but hadn't Googled an image until now...  :o Reminds me of that monstrosity the Russians built in Paris a couple of years ago.
I'm actually OK with the outside, but the interior concepts are an abomination.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2018, 05:52:45 PM »
It looks like a Lego mockup, so I find it rather beautiful, like Lego mockups usually are.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2018, 09:05:58 PM »
I was aware of this project but hadn't Googled an image until now...  :o Reminds me of that monstrosity the Russians built in Paris a couple of years ago.
I'm actually OK with the outside, but the interior concepts are an abomination.

The interior concepts show it without completed iconography; I don’t believe they were intended to be final or definitive.  Or, if they were, that the Church would have accepted that; GoArch parishes have as much splendid iconography as those of anyone else.

The Serbian Orthodox Cathedral of St. Savvas, which is supposed to be the largest Orthodox Church in the world, barely  has any interior iconography completed.  Its massive and will take some time.

The only interior of an Orthodox church I find frustrating is that of St. Savior’s in Moscow, which seems to have been designed to look good without completed iconography, which features structural obstacles which would interfere with the placement of icons, and which, to the extent it does have icons, has some which are dubious (it has an Ancient of Days icon prominently painted but situated in such a manner so that many people think it is inteded to be an icon of God the Father, which is of course uncanonical).

I believe there is a chapel in the basement/crypt of St. Saviors where the ceiling and walls are gloriously painted with icons, that was depicted in Around the World in 80 Faiths, during footage of a Theophany liturgy with the current Patriarch Kyrill splashing everyone with massive amounts of Holy Water using a paintbrush-type aspergilium, as opposed to the few drops a Roman Catholic priest can shake out of their mechanical devices.   This chapel could be located elsewhere; Ive only seen it in that program, and the footage of it was preceded by footage of the exterior of St. Savior’s, with numerous pilgrims queueing to get admisssion, and accompanied by discussion of how the cathedral had been rebuilt after Stalin famously blew it up.

Since I am partially guessing here and on some of these points LBK doubtless knows the answer, I shall now step behind an asbestos barrier to avoid incineration.  :P  Btw LBK I am in need of an icon of St. Athanasius for my icon corner and am looking to commission one; there is a lady ar my parish whose sister does icons but I thought I might also ask you if you know of anyone who could do St. Athanasius with aplomb, feel free to PM me.   :)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 09:06:12 PM by Alpha60 »
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Sethrak

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2018, 09:10:48 PM »
Quote Agabus :  The Greeks love embracing the Byzantine ethos.

We all love it ~ we all had a hand in it. No mater where we were ~ didn't we as children you and I ~ fight the enemies of Christianity with our little wooden swords ~ remember how they came in great hoards ~ how we chopped them down ~ how we sometimes died with great honor ```

Our brothers and sisters are still there on the front lines with the furk on both sides ```

Offline Sethrak

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2018, 09:12:47 PM »
If it's cash/money that is needed a Telethon might do the trick ~ it just takes the right person or persons to set a thing like that up ```




seth

Offline Alpha60

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2018, 09:23:53 PM »
If it's cash/money that is needed a Telethon might do the trick ~ it just takes the right person or persons to set a thing like that up ```




seth

Awesome idea!  We could have Jerry Lewis host! 
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Sethrak

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2018, 09:38:45 PM »
Jerry was a rat ~ there was a guy who lived at Lake Tahoe  ~ had Muscular Dystrophy ~ rode a three wheeled bike with paid advertizment ( Glen Lucky is his name )~ collected money ~ rode from Lake Tahoe, California to Las Vegas, Nevada ~ hoping to get on the telethon ~ Jerry the rat ~ wouldn't let him on ~ but did except the money Son o by burch ```


But the right person could do it Mor ``` Isn't one of us popular enough ```

How bout Trump ~ he could make it work ~ work wonders that guy ~ if someone like you would call him ~ I'm sure he'd ```
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 09:42:09 PM by Sethrak »

Online Justin Kolodziej

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2018, 09:56:03 PM »
If it's cash/money that is needed a Telethon might do the trick ~ it just takes the right person or persons to set a thing like that up ```




seth

Awesome idea!  We could have Jerry Lewis host!
I'll send a letter to Elder Epharim at St. Anthony's asking him to pray for his resurrection so that he can host the telethon, get baptized, and die Orthodox.  ::)
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2018, 01:00:41 AM »
If it's cash/money that is needed a Telethon might do the trick ~ it just takes the right person or persons to set a thing like that up ```




seth

Awesome idea!  We could have Jerry Lewis host!
I'll send a letter to Elder Epharim at St. Anthony's asking him to pray for his resurrection so that he can host the telethon, get baptized, and die Orthodox.  ::)

Jolly good!  Also ask him to use his wonderworking abilities to make it be the late 1980s again, when Telethons were actually a viable fundraising technique.  ;)

Also in this manner I will get to ride once more on the greatly missed Peoplemover and Skyway at Disneyland, the mid 90s closure of these attractions having caused many people to shed tears, myself included.  You know, sending us back to the 1980s would probably be the most enjoyable miracle anyone could grant...  :sigh:
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2018, 01:07:11 AM »
Jerry was a rat ~ there was a guy who lived at Lake Tahoe  ~ had Muscular Dystrophy ~ rode a three wheeled bike with paid advertizment ( Glen Lucky is his name )~ collected money ~ rode from Lake Tahoe, California to Las Vegas, Nevada ~ hoping to get on the telethon ~ Jerry the rat ~ wouldn't let him on ~

Indeed, I am not a fan of Jerry Lewis, my reply to your telethon remark was merely a joke.

But seriously, there are a number of good fundraising websites like Kickstarter and GoFundMe.  There is one that would be appropriate for this project.  Thats the kind of thing we should be doing, not putting on Telethons which no one will watch.  (And seriously, even getting a network to host a telethon for that purpose would be difficult: you would have to buy airtime on a local broadcaster and would probably spend more money airing the telethon than you would raise through donations ... telethons work for PBS stations only because it doesn’t cost a PBS station anything other than the production costs, which themselves are heavily sponsored/donated; since we do not own a television station, or have deep Hollywood connections, the costs of a Telethon would be astronomical, whereas there are charitable funding websites where one can raise money with no upfront cost: the websites do tend to take a percentage, but that’s it).
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2018, 03:00:46 PM »
Sethrak is a serious man. ```
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline Bryan Paul

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Re: "Construction halted at church destroyed in Sept. 11 attacks"
« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 11:57:41 AM »
You know, sending us back to the 1980s would probably be the most enjoyable miracle anyone could grant...  :sigh:
The 1980's were the pinnacle of western civilization, the likes of which we will never see again.
I have always found the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom to be so much more moving in the original Ukrainian.